Transcript
Speaker: Fri-Gay the 13th Horror Podcast is a proud independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit Fri-Gay13.com. I'm um ah so excited to see this movie. I've been waiting forever.
Speaker: i hope it's good. and love a good slasher movie. All right. ah Where are our seats? Okay. We are H1 and H3. Why didn't you get us seats next to each other?
Speaker: Oh, that's Sissy's seat. Sissy. We're still doing the imaginary friend thing. Doing? He's right there. He doesn't He says pass the popcorn. He doesn't even have... ah You know what? Never mind.
Speaker: Shh. It's starting.
Speaker: Sissy says he knows who the killer is Tell Sissy to let me watch the movie. He says fine, but if he gets it right, you own a drink. Oh my God, I hate him. He loves you too.
Speaker: It's episode 149. Imaginary friends are terrifying. i am the writing on the wall, the whisper in the classroom.
Speaker: I'm Marjorie Green, and I approve this message. To save America, stop socialism, and stop China. Stay alive, we honor thee from life to death to rise.
Speaker: You are in real life. Doubters, the doomsters, the gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong. Horror in the movies. Where are you gonna go?
Speaker: Where are gonna run? Where are you gonna hide? Nowhere.
Speaker: da When do we want it? Let's go! What are you waiting huh? What are you waiting for? I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. Sometimes, that is better.
Speaker: Hey, Katie. Who is Carlos? He's my best friend and he's my brother. Okay. Carlos. Where's Carlos at right now?
Speaker: He's right beside me. Right beside you. You play with Carlos at school? Yes. And does Carlos play with your friends at school? Yes.
Speaker: Can they see Carlos? Yes. And then Carlos goes home with his mommy and daddy at the end of school? They come with you and mama.
Speaker: Welcome to Fragge the 13th Horror Podcast. My name is Andrew. And my name is Maddie. And this is our 149th episode of Fragge the 13th Horror Podcast. if you've never been here before, first of all, where have you been? But second of all, thank you for tuning in. And this is the podcast where we talk all about horror. Horror in real life and horror in the movies. And today we are talking all about horror.
Speaker: those imaginary friends. Imaginary friends are an interesting topic for us to tackle that I'm surprised that we haven't actually done before. um But Maddie, and did you have imaginary friends as a kid?
Speaker: You know, don't I was trying to think about whether I did or not. And I'll tell you, i think that I did, but I can't remember, Andrew, which is scary because this is what happens as you get older.
Speaker: you Your brain really struggles to remember a thing and you can't. You you really can't. And my my mom is not in a state where she's going to remember. So I know that I did. i know that I did. I just can't remember like what I called it and like what we did.
Speaker: But also I don't remember it being a big thing. where Whereas in like, I don't remember it like sticking around for a long time. i don't remember like people being worried about it or people like making a lot of jokes about it.
Speaker: And like, I don't remember any of my siblings talking about it. Like no one's like, Oh, remember remember when you had an imaginary friend? So, I mean, if I did, i guess it's sort of sad that I don't i don't remember. Did you have one?
Speaker: Did I ever tell me? I had two imaginary friends. Their names were Boggy and Dondi. Boggy and Dondi. Oh, my God. And they, to me, looked like the Rice Krispie, like spokesperson people, like the little mini people. That's so crazy.
Speaker: That's what I remember of them. And I distinctly remember the day they went away. i flushed them down the toilet so they could go to space. Oh, Andrew, you're such a fucked up. That brain is so fucking weird. Jesus.
Speaker: But this went this went so far when I was a kid that I made my parents pull the car over so that Boggy and Dondi could go to the bathroom.
Speaker: And they did. And they did. Wow. You know what? Good for them. I'll tell you what. Good for them. but Listen, there's a reason why I was the first child. so Wow.
Speaker: Just wow. But yeah, imaginary friends have always been like kind of a ah weird topic to think about because there are like ah psychology ways of thinking about it. Sure. And then there are metaphysical ways of thinking about it. And so it's it's just kind of a weird one that like no one can really understand because the mind of a child is so different than a mind of an adult.
Speaker: Sure. And I think that that's tackled, you you know, pretty well in both of our movies that we're going to be watching today. So, you know, for imaginary friends, we did um hide and seek um from the early aughts and then imaginary, which literally came out like last year.
Speaker: And I think that it's an interesting way of tackling, you know, human psychology, but then also like childhood psychology. Oh, totally. How they perceive the world and like how how different.
Speaker: I mean, just imagine like even yourself from college to now, how different you the way your brain thinks and how you think about certain things. Yeah.
Speaker: So then try like you know try to digress even more down to your childhood self. It's it's impossible. But like the things that you thought were even possible as a child is so different than what you think is possible today. You know what i mean? Yeah.
Speaker: And so it's just interesting think about imaginary friends. Yeah. I don't think my brother ever had imaginary friends. I've got kind of remember. Did any of your siblings, do do you remember any of them having any sort of like... You know, because I i came at the end of a very long line of of of siblings. I was i was the ninth the ninth of nine children.
Speaker: You know, all that stuff that you would have experienced with a younger siblings, I never experienced any of that. And and once again, let same same with me. I don't remember any of them talking about an imaginary friend that they had or if they remembered having one or, you know, once again, I kind of joked around about it. So I'm not sure to be honest.
Speaker: Yeah. I'd be interested if you asked like your specifically your brother, because I think your brother is more tapped in. Yeah, sure. um If he would remember anything about Michael, you're listening to this now, Michael, let us know, text me because I don't remember you having one, but maybe you did.
Speaker: Yeah. So do you want learn a little bit about like some of the quote unquote, and I'm literally putting this quote unquote because it's only skeptical sure um of why people have imaginary friends? Please.
Speaker: So from psychology today is where I'm pulling this first article from. um It says, you know, the kind of the top line is by age seven, about 37% of children take imaginative play a step further and create an invisible friend.
Speaker: That's a really big number. i know um you know and it's something I don't know. yeah well it does talk about oldest children, and that's it's interesting because I am the eldest of my of my of my sibling. Eldest children tend be more imaginative.
Speaker: eldest children tend to be more imaginative um And come up with imaginary friends than younger siblings. So that's maybe why you don't remember any of you know you or yeah fair siblings that you were close to in age ah having any.
Speaker: um Children with imaginary kind ah companions tend to be less shy laugh more with peers and are better at imagining how someone else might think. Sure. um I totally get that because i I, I have a bad complex of putting myself in other people's shoes. I need to not do it so often as I do. um And then asking a child questions about their imaginary friend can reveal more about a child's interests, wishes, fears, or concerns, which makes a lot of sense. Like if you just like, like the imaginary friend is only going to feed into like what they're either worried or happy about.
Speaker: ah but Sure. You know, um it seems logical that children who invent invisible friends might be lonely or have social problems, but research doesn't support those assumptions. In fact, compared to those who don't create them, children with imaginary companions tend to be less shy, engage in more laughing and smiling with peers and do better at tasks involving imagining how someone else might think. That's kind of interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: um Oldest children, only children and children who don't watch much television are far more likely to create an imaginary friend. Makes sense. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like you don't have the power of someone else projecting on you. So you have to project on yourself.
Speaker: um This probably reflects opportunity. Children need unstructured time alone to be able to invent imaginary friends. Having an imaginary friend is not evidence that a child is troubled.
Speaker: However, imaginary friends can be a source of comfort when a child is experiencing difficulties. There are many case studies of children inventing imaginary friends to help them cope with traumatic experiences. sure A study based on an interview of middle school students at high risk for developing This is such a weird study.
Speaker: ah study based on interview of middle school students at high risk for developing behavioral problems found that having an imaginary companion was associated with a better coping strategies, but lower social preference with peers.
Speaker: However, by the end of high school, those high risk children who had an imaginary companion in middle school showed better adjustment on multiple measures. Huh? just interesting to think about like how these things come to be.
Speaker: I think a lot of people, and we'll get into this in a little bit, kind of like lean on the metaphysical side of what imaginary friends are and not just think about like, oh, maybe this kid is going through something and is using this to as a coping mechanism.
Speaker: Sure. Whether that's happy or sad, you know? I mean, I think, you know, children are going to find any way they can to understand the world around them. yeah and and and understand their their particular circumstances. And yeah what what I would be interested in is like, what are, and i did a a cursory search for this, but did I didn't have enough time to go too deep into it, is like, what are the actual steps? Like, how does the child create an imaginary friend? Like, that's the stuff that I couldn't find, but that must be very hard to research because like,
Speaker: How can you pinpoint that in a child? And right like how can you observe a child pre-creation of an imaginary friend? And like when when it comes to an imaginary friend, how can the child actually explain to you how they created it? They probably can't.
Speaker: So that that research has to be incredibly difficult to do. Well, and you can't always rely on children to tell the truth. You know what i mean? They're kids. Yeah. I can tell you from my own experience, I don't remember when Boggy and Dondi came along. Yeah, they they were they were they were just there.
Speaker: They were just there. um But I will tell you that it was not a projection of any sort of trauma for me because that was like the happiest of my childhood. Like I went through much darker stuff later on in my childhood than when they were around.
Speaker: I think it was more of like loneliness, like just only having your parents. And then like, well, I didn't have a brother at that time. I was you three years old. And so like I had to make my own friends and wow didn't really live around other people. And so like, I think that that is part of why they came along.
Speaker: Wow. And when I didn't need them anymore, I flushed them down the toilet. That's just that that part of the story, Andrew, is ready pretty, pretty great. the seven to space nonetheless. Oh, because that's where I thought space was. Your poop just goes to space. Wow.
Speaker: Wow. All right. Now I want to tackle the other side of imaginary friends because it can get quite spooky, if you will. So this is from Quail Bell Magazine.
Speaker: um ah So paranormal experts accept that children are more generally more capable of perceiving spirits than adults. I think that you would probably agree with me on that. Agreed. Right?
Speaker: um The purity of young minds allows them to trust their super sensory abilities without question. After so many cups of coffee and clock punching, adult brains get tired and we settle into a routine. God, can't we agree with that? That's for sure. yeah Plainly put...
Speaker: The humdrum of adulthood closes our minds and to preserve what remains of our sanity. But in many instances, imaginary friends are actually spirits who pursue a child's friendship for a host of different reasons.
Speaker: Some of those spirits are of dead people who enjoy children's company, like the friend of my—and I'm speaking from an article—so like the friend of my aunt whose daughter started talking about how she played with a woman named Olivia— They later found out that a woman named Olivia died in their house.
Speaker: I could imagine how the novelty of being dead would get old pretty quickly. Oh, yeah. Other imaginary friends might be spirits who acquaint themselves with a child for a range of wholesome or malevolent reasons. Ooh.
Speaker: Like immortal predators, spirits with unkind agendas are more happy more than happy to invest time and energy into earning a child's trust. Think about The Exorcist and of how Captain Howdy...
Speaker: presents at presents himself to Reagan at the beginning of that movie. And it kind of, you know, spirals into that whole series of of Captain Howdy. group up Yeah. Disarming them, making them trust them.
Speaker: ah So some interesting things to think about when you think about imaginary friends, you know, you have my case where I don't think it was a malevolent spirit. I think it was just my overactive imagination, but you also have the stories of children that,
Speaker: that maybe are being presented with something a little more spooky. Spooky dooky. Now, I do have some actual um imaginary friend stories that are a little bit more spooky. If you want to tell me, them Andrew, tell me.
Speaker: All right. So I have a series here and I'm going to just start with the names of the imaginary friend and then I'm to tell you the tale. Okay. The first one is Shusha. One day, and then these all come from BuzzFeed, by the way. If you forgot what BuzzFeed is, it was in early 2000s. Remember BuzzFeed where you took a lot of quizzes and it told you who you were?
Speaker: all right, Shusha. One day, my daughter came home from preschool and told me she had a new friend that joined her classroom named Shusha. I didn't think anything much about it, but my daughter would say things like she wanted a colorful backpack like Shusha's or hair ribbons like hers.
Speaker: One day, my husband asked the teacher to point out which girl on the playground was Shusha, and the teacher told him there was no such girl. After that, my husband insisted that it was an imaginary friend and discouraged my daughter from mentioning her.
Speaker: all went on pretty normally after that until several months later, she brought shoe shop up again. when we were on a trip in Argentina, And as we were riding up the glass elevator in Buenos Aires, my daughter suddenly pointed down to the crowd and said, look, there's Shusha.
Speaker: She followed us here. oh my God. Even though dad told her, go away. Neither myself or my husband saw a child where she was pointing. Whoa, weird.
Speaker: Creepy crap bag of a child. My God, Jesus. All right, the next one is Narnie. My sister and I had come exact ah had had the same exact imaginary friend when she was six and I was fine.
Speaker: That's crazy to me that they would have the same imaginary friend. Her name was Narnie. she It would freak out our older brother and parents out when we would talk about and knew exactly where she would be.
Speaker: They would wonder how we both would interact with her at the same time and that her descriptions of her matched. We would even talk about how she would get angry or jealous.
Speaker: Our parents thought for sure that it was a spirit of a child that had passed. So think about that. Like sisters, a year apart would talk about the same imaginary friend.
Speaker: That's so crazy. How she looked. How does that even happen? ah Seriously, guess very close siblings, I guess. But all right. The next one is Paris Jarris, which I think is a it's a fun name for imaginary friend.
Speaker: All right. My youngest sister, who was four years old at the time, had an imaginary friend named Paris Jarris. My dad had built her a small playhouse in our backyard where my mom could see and hear her while she was in the kitchen.
Speaker: My sister would have tea parties and such with her imaginary friend. One day, my mom heard her saying, don't worry, as long as I'm alive, they won't hurt you. She paused and said, well, if you do that, I can't help you. It's not nice to kill people.
Speaker: when my mom When my mom asked her what it was all about, my sister responded, sometimes I have to tell Paris to be a nice person or he can't visit anymore. we moved out not too long afterwards and she didn't get a new playhouse.
Speaker: Whoa. My God. That's like so I, this is, this is the part of children that I wish I could just experience because I think kids are so creepy, but they have such but active imaginations that it's like, that's the thing though. I'd be like, if if kids did that to me, I'd be like, Oh shit.
Speaker: What the fuck, man? Let me write this down. Jesus. God. All right. I have two more for you. The, and the next one is titled maypo. Okay. When I was six years old, we lived in an old farmhouse that was at the very edge of a small village in the Midwest. Oh, is this about me? i don't know.
Speaker: um My bedroom was on the second floor and the closet had a very heavy wooden door. The latch was old and rusted, which my mom didn't think was safe. So we didn't use that closet for anything.
Speaker: while I started sitting in that closet at night with the light on, talking to a nice old man who hung out in there. He wore a blue uniform, had salt and pepper hair, and a mustache.
Speaker: I had a name for him and everything. Maypo. I talked to this nice old man about my life, my family, my friends, my school, everything. And I went on for about a year. My mom found out about it, forbade me from going back into the closet, and told me to knock it off with the imaginary friend because it was freaking my little brother out.
Speaker: Now fast forward several years. There was a town meeting to elect a new mayor of the village and everyone was supposed to attend. My mom brought my brothers and I with her because she was afraid she couldn't find a babysitter.
Speaker: At the little town hall, which I'd never stepped foot in before that night, there was a photo memorial plaque on the wall for a mailman who had been hit and killed by a truck delivering mail to the end of the road that I lived on.
Speaker: His name was Ralph Maypo. Oh my God. Exactly the same as my imaginary blue uniform and all. Oh, that's fucked up. Oh my God. That it that is so creepy. Jesus.
Speaker: Well, listen. ah wait, wait, Andrew. You said you had one more? I have one more. Sorry about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. And this one's Derek. Okay. Imagine you have an imaginary friend. His name is Derek. Why? This is my imaginary friend, Norm.
Speaker: Yeah. All right. I had imaginary friend named Derek who was a carbon copy of me. We were completely identical. I played with Derek for years, longer than what normal kids do.
Speaker: But when, but he would always look at my mom and older sister with a sense of sadness. And eventually he went away. 23 years later, years later I was digging through my mom's safe to grab some paperwork she kept for me.
Speaker: And I found a stillborn death certificate for a boy named Derek who shared my birthday. It was only then that I discovered i was actually a twin.
Speaker: oh And my brother Derek died during birth. ah That needs to be made into a movie right there. Jesus Christ. And just call it Derek. people are going to be like what's this about?
Speaker: um Those are scary stories, Andrew. Listen, um there's a lot of, and thank you for sharing those. so There's a lot of positive things that that that can come from having and imaginary friend, right?
Speaker: Oh, you mean like a personality like me? Yeah. Well, you know what I mean. i mean it it It can help children figure out their way in the world. gives them you know a sense of confidence, gives them autonomy, all that kind of thing.
Speaker: but can can imaginary friends have a darker side in a real logical sense? And so this is from, um it's it's from personalonlinetherapy.com, which is just, ah it's a therapy service.
Speaker: And they have a section about imaginary friends. And what they say is to that very question is in short, yes, but definitely not in the evil spirit sense that Hollywood portrays.
Speaker: um And so they say that an imaginary friend can be a way for children to process life and events so that you know if if your grandma died, and the theme of the of the friends conversations have gotten stuck on death, it's most likely that your child is is struggling with understanding and coming to terms of loss.
Speaker: Or your child's friends might suddenly start talking about very grown up things, and they're using lingo that is not age appropriate, and you know that they have certainly not learned it from you. um So like you know these things can happen, right?
Speaker: But another old school belief that should be put to bed, and I'm reading this directly from their website, is that having an imaginary friend does not mean that your child has split personalities. That's something very different, right? And that's something that parents can confront their child psychologist with all the time.
Speaker: So there are extreme cases where an imaginary friend can allude to an underlying mental illness, but that's pretty few and far between. it's more likely that parents will end up at a child psychologist because of other disturbing symptoms displayed and not the imaginary friend.
Speaker: So when should you start becoming concerned if your child has an imaginary friend? First, if your child's friend has a worrying backstory. So it's not unusual for children's imaginary friends to have elaborate backstories.
Speaker: Some even come from completely different and complex words worlds with an extensive family tree. But when their backstory includes things like a family that doesn't care about them or having no friends, there might be something else going on in your child's life that they don't know how to express. And so maybe you should think about seeing a child psychologist.
Speaker: Um, or maybe if their imaginary friend, uh, takes preference. So could be handier than an imaginary friend that you could play with anywhere at any time, but when your child is at school or has friends come to visit and still prefers the company of the, ah of the imaginary friend, there might be some social issues there.
Speaker: Um, the imaginary friend, when it wasn't them, you're going to hear about this in the movies. What could be more convenient than an imaginary friend that's responsible for any and all mischief?
Speaker: Although it might be cute and funny the first time around, your child will soon learn to blame others and not take accountability for their actions. Oh, interesting. Or maybe when their imaginary friend Is acting out.
Speaker: And this is when an imaginary friend is apparently responsible for hurting friends on the playground, hurting, hurting your actual child themselves, that that could be self harm, and showing other violent or aggressive tendencies, such as like destruction of property.
Speaker: um It could be that the imaginary friend is hurtful. And there's a big difference between acting out and simply being mean and hurtful. So if the imaginary friend suddenly being very hurtful towards others, whether ah but you know whether not wanting to share or calling other people dumb, and your child is probably having some kind of social skills issue.
Speaker: When the imaginary friend has incredible mood swings, it's completely normal for us as human beings to have a wide range of emotions and moods, but to have every one of them in the space of an hour, not a good sign.
Speaker: That could be, once again, a sign that your kid is going through something very, very different. um And an imaginary friend that sticks around into the teen years. So, you know, it's normal during developmental years, but having an invisible companion from like 11 on, there's something probably wrong.
Speaker: There's something more serious. it's it's It's about coping skills that maybe they don't have. And so like, you know, I think it's important to, you know, look, I'm i'm most likely not going to have kids, but If I did, these are things that I would probably be be watching for. Like, you know, it's cute and it's funny and imaginary friends. And we like to you know talk about them and tell stories. And sometimes they're kind of spooky and weird.
Speaker: But like you we we know at the end of the day that an imaginary friend is a projection of a child outside of itself. right And if they're displaying these disturbing things, that's really just your kid going through it in one way or another. So you've got to watch that and you've got to be careful.
Speaker: Yeah, no, some some great points. And I'm glad that that came from like a therapy website because that that makes a lot of sense to kind of think about it in that way of like people coming forward and being like just like fucking worried about their kids.
Speaker: you yeah And like like I said, you know, we we talk about fun things usually on on on podcasts, but like, you know, from ah from us a serious side, like, hey, that that This could indicate something something could be pretty wrong with your kids. So beware. Or that they're going through something that you're maybe not even aware of. You know what I mean? it's it's it's the it's the parents It's the parent's job to parent the children, but you don't always see all aspects of their lives. And so you have to like remember to ah truly understand what they're going through and get them the help that they need when they need it.
Speaker: Now, I don't want you to force anything on anybody that doesn't need it, but I think you you made a great example of just like paying attention and like kind of like the life stages and understanding maybe when they need coping mechanisms, maybe when they need a little bit more help. Yeah, agreed.
Speaker: Cool. well Well, Andrew, that was a great little discussion there about imaginary friends. Why don't we take a break here? Come back and talk about what you've been watching, bitch.
Speaker: Let's all go the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby to get ourselves a treat.
Speaker: It's that time, it's that time again where you get to listen to what we've been watching because it's time for what you've been watching, bitch. What you've been watching, you imaginary bitch. And that's right. This is the portion of the podcast where we talk about what we've been watching. And this time around, we're bringing you two each.
Speaker: I know usually we do four, but listen, it's summer. it's It's now early fall, um and we're getting ready for spooky season. So we're we're trying to like be outside as much as we can. and So give us ah give us a break, people, please.
Speaker: So we're going to bring you What You Been Watching Bitches. Maddie, What You Been Watching Bitches. um Yeah, so the first one that I'll talk about is a film called Small Things Like These. um This is a film that it's it's an Irish film and it is an adaptation of the book by Claire Keegan, who's a pretty famous author here, but also all around the world.
Speaker: um And Small Things Like These um has Cillian Murphy um among and Emily Watson, among a ah a really great cast of people that you might not know quite as well, but they're all Irish actors.
Speaker: Um, this is a really good movie. Um, small things like these is a, sad it's a sad movie. I'm not going to lie to you. Um, this explores the, the era of, of history in Ireland, all about the mother and baby homes.
Speaker: Um, if you don't know what these are, the mother and baby homes were around, they were around like much later than they should have been. They didn't really close. I think the last one closed down, if I'm not mistaken, in like the nineties.
Speaker: um And basically here's what happened. Um, Look, the Catholic church ran Ireland for a long time um in ways that it should have never, ever been allowed to.
Speaker: And it did a number of heinous things. You know, not least of them was covering up for child molesters left and right and shipping them to other parishes when they got caught and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: But another really dark part of the history of the Catholic church in Ireland is that when unwed mothers would have a baby and they were young, The babies were taken away and these mothers were sent to mother and baby homes.
Speaker: um And oftentimes they had no idea where their babies went. um Sometimes their babies died and they weren't told. um Sometimes they were adopted and and you know ended up in different countries. yeah the the The stories are heinous about these things.
Speaker: But these these young women would be sent to these homes where sometimes they would spend the rest of their lives there. And they would be workers, basically. They would do laundry.
Speaker: um They would they would you make food for the priests. They would just be in this fucking awful home. And they would do it because their families were too embarrassed of them.
Speaker: um And they they knew that if they were – put in that in air quotes. They knew that if they were out you know among society or whatever, that they wouldn't that they would be looked down upon um and their family would suffer for it.
Speaker: So this is a movie that takes place in 1985. And Cillian Murphy plays Bill Furlong, um who's just this – um You know, he's it's it's I don't want to give away too much um because he he has his own pain that he deals with.
Speaker: But Killian Murphy basically just plays a really good man. And he's a father and he's a husband and he's somebody who cares. And he owns this coal business um in in the town where they live.
Speaker: And part of ah but one one of his clients is a mother and baby home. And he doesn't really know it until he knows it. And once he knows it, he can't unknow it. So this is a really good one. i but i hasten to use the word enjoy because that's not what I mean.
Speaker: But it is it's superbly done. Cillian Murphy is so good in this. Emily Watson is also so good and evil in this. um And it's it's well it's well worth your time. and You know, like, look, i I obviously know a lot about Ireland because I fucking live here. But like, if you don't know a lot about Irish history, this is one that that will be an interesting one for you to watch.
Speaker: And what I like about it, too, is that it's not about the diddly it's about like real stuff that happened here. to real people. um and And honestly, like see what you'll learn about a trauma that still exists here in women that I know, you know in in in daughters of of women that I know that have told me stories about this kind of shit.
Speaker: That's crazy. This stuff lasts for generations, what they did to these women. um And it's another example of why the Catholic Church is one of the most evil, corrupt organizations on the face of the earth.
Speaker: So that's it. Small things like these from 2024 with Killian Murphy and Emily Watson. Give it a watch. Cool. Sounds interesting. And a part of a history that I don't really know that much about. Yeah. All right. My first one is the extension of the Dexter universe. And this is Dexter resurrection. Oh, God.
Speaker: um So if you remember correctly, ah Dexter First Blood, i think New Blood, New Blood is where he it was where the series picked up and he lived in ah cold country. I think they yeah I think it was like Vermont or New Hampshire or something.
Speaker: ah And at the end of it, ah he was reunited with his son in New Blood. And his son ended up shooting him at the end of of New Blood. Spoiler alert, I guess, if you haven't watched the series from you know five years ago. yeah But this is picks up where ah Dexter actually lived through getting shot.
Speaker: um He's like the Jason Voorhees of his universe. He can never die, apparently. And ah he's been in rehab and been in a coma for months and months and months. I think it's like a year that goes by where he's in a coma and then rehab and everything. Sure.
Speaker: Um, but his son has moved to New York city to just attain and it's like, uh, anonymous and anonymity, like just to be like, I, you know what? I want to work for a hotel. I want to be a normal person.
Speaker: i don't want to do anything like weird. I just want to be a normal person. Uh, but then Dexter follows him to New York city and now it's become a whole thing. uh,
Speaker: Uh, it's interesting because like a whole like circle of serial killers kind of comes into this, to the, the season and that's all I'll give away. But some of the cameos in this are great.
Speaker: Um, listen, did I have my reservations about diving back into the Dexter universe? Absolutely. Because I thought New Blood was fine. It was fine.
Speaker: um And then um First Kill, I think is the it yeah the prequel series. I thought that that was kind of iffy, if I'm being honest. And so I was like, I went in with low expectations going into Resurrection.
Speaker: But honestly... The way they're pulling this off is it feels like it feels like first season Dexter again. Like it feels okay. like and It feels truly resurrected.
Speaker: So yeah, but that's, that's good to hear. her And we're, and we're getting a lot of like old characters that are coming back and the characters that um were along for the ride with the, well, what was it what was he called the bay harbor butcher yeah yeah sure um and so like they're finally like understanding that that might be dexter like after all these fucking years of people not not figuring it out and so like you know it'll be interesting to see how it wraps up i think we're on an episode seven as of this recording and so i'm assuming there's 10 and so i'm hoping we get like a nice little wrap up
Speaker: I don't know what the plans are for more Dexter universe. Sure. um But we do need an ending at some point. We've gotten, we've gotten several ah quote unquote endings that were not very satisfying. So I'm really hoping that we figure out something to do with this character because it's a very complex, dark character that I've grown to love sure over the years. And I want to see a satisfying ending And I'm hoping that maybe Resurrection will do that. So if you're at all interested in the the Dexter universe of it all, give Resurrection a chance. I think you'll like it.
Speaker: Well, more satisfying than the ending of the original series. Seriously, I'm sure. ah um My next one is not a movie. It's actually a play. um So my my sister was visiting in ah in August of of this year.
Speaker: And ah when when she visits, she likes to see a play. um And we saw a really wonderful play at a theater in Dublin called The Gate Theater. um The Gate Theater, I think, produces probably the best live theater in Dublin.
Speaker: i And they they're just really good. They they do really good stuff. This is a play called The Pillow Man. And The Pillow Man is written by Martin McDonough. If that name sounds familiar, it should.
Speaker: He's written a lot of movies that you have seen before, but he's also a playwright, which is how he began. He is both British and Irish, although he leads leans more on the Irish stuff. um He wrote, for example, Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, and um which was your favorite movie. Yeah, right. but but it But it was up for a number of Academy Awards, Francis McDormand, all that kind of thing.
Speaker: Um, also the Banshees of Inish Irin, which was also up for like nine Academy Awards. Um, and, and truly a fantastic film. I loved it. Um, in Bruges, which is a very popular movie, of course, seven psychopaths, but then a number of plays to the beauty queen of Linan, the cripple of Inish of of Inish man, the lonesome West, Lieutenant of Inish more.
Speaker: a beheaded in Spokane, uh, hangman, a very, very, very, very dark matter. Um, really good stuff. And, you know, usually his, his stuff is kind of known to be a little like, like in your face and kind of, kind of brutal.
Speaker: The pillow man, it's always very dark. The pillow man is very dark. It's a very dark play. And this is what it's about. This is directly from from the gate theater's website, a totalitarian regime, a missing child, a killer on the loose.
Speaker: A writer is arrested when a It's lovely play. It is extremely dark.
Speaker: as two detectives chase a confession they discover a truth much stranger than fiction um it's a lovely play it is extremely dark It's a play about a lot of things.
Speaker: um But where where this where the play really um succeeds is, ah ah well, it succeeds in a lot of ways, but it succeeds in one way by by the stories that are being told.
Speaker: And so you hear there like, okay, there's this writer named Keturian. He is arrested. this is a ah totalitarian government, you know near future kind of thing. And when they arrest him, he he doesn't know why they're arresting him. But then they start reading his stories to him. And and like and then it connects to, as as you just heard there, the death of a child.
Speaker: And so there's all these children that have gone missing and that and that were killed. And they were killed in the exact same way that the child is killed in the story that he wrote. And there's there's a twist that happens. I won't tell you what it is because hopefully one day you'll be able to see The Pillow Man.
Speaker: And I think like they should just make a movie out of it, to be honest. i think I'm sure they will. Really great film. um But it was so well done. Now, the reason why I'm talking about it here is because the person who played Keturian in this production of The Pillow Man...
Speaker: is fra fee and fra fee um was in a movie called uh the uh the boys of the the the boys the boys the boys of county hell or the boys from county hell whatever that movie is called yeah the vampire movie that we did exactly which we covered on the show when we talked about vampires um and vampires specifically in ireland he plays um the he plays the friend that gets um hit by like the the crazy animal like or yeah Yeah, remember.
Speaker: And then he becomes a vampire first. um And I just think he's great. He's also incredibly handsome, might I add. And he's definitely handsome on stage, too. I'll point that out, too. And you know what? He was, i mean, they were all really good in the show. The whole cast was. He was really fantastic. So it was really fun and to see somebody from a horror movie that I like quite a bit.
Speaker: um carry that same talent over to the stage it was just it was really really cool i really enjoyed it so um if you ever get a chance to see the pillow man you should definitely go see it it'll be well worth your time It's funny because as you read me the description, it sounded a lot like The Dark Half by Stephen King. Oh, yeah. There you go. Good point.
Speaker: But I'd be eager to see what, but you know, in the hands of someone else, what that kind of looks like. So um I must have been kind of inspired by it. I hope that this comes here. i hope that we get a chance to to experience it. so so you for thank you for highlighting it. Sounds really fun.
Speaker: All right. my next one is ah fit for TV, The Reality of the Biggest Loser. I want to watch this. i You should. i hope you say it's good. it's so it's on netflix it just premiered uh as of this recording and um listen i was a sucker for i always have been i i will continue to be a sucker for reality tv and i don't know why i just tap the veins and let it run through that's right um and the listen early on you know the biggest loser was kind of like the next iteration of survivor for me yeah like and
Speaker: And listen, this is ah this is a weird thing that I'm going to like tell you, but like the Biggest Loser when it was on TV is when I was going through my weight loss journey. And I would literally time my workouts to go watch The Biggest Loser while worked out.
Speaker: Because it was like, quote unquote, like inspirational, I guess. I don't know. Sure. and But this documentary, it's ah it's a three-part documentary. Each part is about 45 to 50 minutes.
Speaker: And it kind of tackles three different like angles of The Biggest Loser. It's kind of like the ah the TV side of it, then the actual contestant side of it, and then like some personal stories in the third act.
Speaker: And honestly... this shed a whole new light on the show that I never even thought about. Um, a lot about, about how they treated these people and about how these people experienced being contestants on this show and what it did for the rest of their lives. Sometimes positive, sometimes negative. It's not, it's not a smear documentary by any means. It's, it's,
Speaker: it's meant to kind of highlight the human experience of being fat. And, and like, it's, it's, it's troubling. It's inspirational.
Speaker: And I think that Netflix did a really good job of examining it from all the different angles that they needed to. And, uh, all i'll say is jillian michaels is a piece of shit yeah um she declined to be a part of the documentary and it shows by how they highlight her shitty behavior and her shitty behavior that she continues to display to this day as as a panelist on things like cnn and whatnot um but i i i highly enjoyed it and if you had any experience with
Speaker: this show in the early aughts, I would highly encourage you to watch this three-part documentary that Netflix put together. It's very good. Looking forward to to to seeing that. you know weve we've We've talked about these issues a lot on this show um because we we both went through our our own things. We still continue to do so. Well, I mean, look, it's a lifelong journey. it's um i i I really despise the discussions around weight and and and and and how that should – Determine your worth in the world. Yeah, well, I think that's just it.
Speaker: And, um you know, I'm im i'm i'm grateful that i've I think I've been able to move on from a lot of that in my life. um But, you know, for for a long time, it dominated the way that I thought about myself. and i and as And especially as as gay people, I think we feel it even stronger. even harder yeah yeah and i and i just think you know shows like the biggest loser do they do the they do the exact opposite of what they claim to do um which is not to inspire but but instead to to profit off of pain and that is just it's just wrong and like i i haven't what it was actually um i ah we were i was looking at some different things to watch last night and that came up
Speaker: And I was like, oh, that looks interesting. I can't wait to to see it. So I'm looking forward to to seeing how that plays out. But I'm i'm glad that they're finally telling that story. I think you're really going to like how they examined the different ah the different topics that this show brought up.
Speaker: So cool. Well, that does it for what you've been watching, bitch. Maddie brought us small things like these. Where did you watch that? ah You can you can get it like it's I watch it on like Sky. But like for you guys, I i don't know where you're going to find it. It might be on like HBO or something, but you can certainly rent it as well, I would say.
Speaker: Okay. And The Pillow Man, which is currently a play, hopefully traveling to your town soon. And ah Andrew who brought, I almost said Dexter brought us, and Andrew andrew brought us Dexter Resurrection on Paramount Plus and Fit for TV, the reality of The Biggest Loser on Netflix.
Speaker: I was him for Halloween once. Oh, that's, yep, you were. Um, that does it for what you've been watching, bitch. We'll be right back with our first ah film. I cannot remember words today with our first film of the episode, hide and seek.
Speaker: We're going move upstate the country. What about Emily? This is a traumatic time for her. i think it's important. She stays here and works through this. No, here she's flooded with memories. Right now, I need to be a full-time dad.
Speaker: have a new friend. A new friend? He told me to call him Charlie. When did you meet Charlie? Today. When we went to town? was before that. Is he... here right now?
Speaker: Emily, why would you do this? It was Charlie. It's not unusual for a child to create imaginary friends. I don't want to be too forward, but I don't notice a lot of kids around. And I'm trying to find other kids to have playdates with Emily.
Speaker: Do you like her, Daddy? Emily. Charlie says you do. Stop this. Did Daddy tell you that my mommy died? Let's hope you don't wind up like her.
Speaker: You know, Charlie doesn't exist. You shouldn't say that. Why not?
Speaker: gonna make him mad. Do you like games? I love games. Would you like to play one? I'm already playing. Charlie did it.
Speaker: You do believe me, don't you, Daddy? Neighbor called, said there was a problem. What you drawing there? You. die one nose
Speaker: are
Speaker: <unk> now Come out, come out, wherever you are.
Speaker: You played hide and seek when you were a kid? Now you can watch the Oscar-nominated film from 2005. Andrew, tell us all about the award-winning Hide and Seek. Come out, come out, wherever you are.
Speaker: David Calloway tries to piece together his life in the wake of his wife's suicide and has been left to raise his nine-year-old daughter, Emily, on his own. and David is at first amused to discover that Emily has a created imaginary friend named Charlie, but it isn't long before Charlie develops a sinister and violent side.
Speaker: And as David struggles with his daughter's growing emotional problems, he comes to the frightening realization that Charlie isn't. Just a figment of Emily's imagination.
Speaker: This is directed by John Polson, written by Aerie Schlossberg, and production and distribution were handled by Josephson Entertainment, Fox 2000 Pictures, and 20th Century Fox.
Speaker: David Calloway is played by Robert De Niro. Welcome to the podcast, Robert De Niro, for the first time. Emily Calloway is played by... Wait, no, no, no, no. It's not the first time. It isn't?
Speaker: Cape Fear. Cape Fear. Oh, yeah, you're right, you're right. All right. Touche. Touche. Emily Calloway is played by Dakota Fanning. Dr. Catherine Kate Carson is played by Famke Janssen.
Speaker: Elizabeth Young is played by Elizabeth Hsu. And Allison Calloway is played by Amy Irving. This is rated R. It comes in at 101 minutes. It was released on January 28th of 2005.
Speaker: Locations were New York and New Jersey for filming. And the budget was $25 million. And this sucker grossed $122.7 million. dollars So it's kind of a crazy thing that we didn't get hide-and-seek to. But, um Maddie, was this your first time watching hide-and-seek? And what were your initial responses?
Speaker: As far as I know, it was. um Oh, interesting. Yeah. You know, look, it's... It's... ah
Speaker: What am I trying to say? we We have we I think that we've seen worse films. I do. Absolutely. And um I don't think that this is a terrible movie. But the thing the thing about this movie is like it's sort of the same way I feel about Cape Fear when I think back on it is that.
Speaker: You know, like Robert De Niro is a fantastic actor. And in in the the history of American actors, he will be in the top 10, if not the top five. And he has done amazing work that I very much respect.
Speaker: um And i I love the man. He's he's a great guy. But like, there are some things you look back on in the in the the the filmography of of his where you're like, what?
Speaker: And this is one of them, I'll be honest. And you know, look, I think he does his best as Robert De Niro, but it's Robert De Niro. Like he's he's such a big name that when you cast him in something, you cannot get over the fact that he's Robert De Niro.
Speaker: It's just like, it's like impossible. And so this is one of those roles where I really struggle to understand the casting director and what the fuck they were thinking beyond, beyond making a ton of money. Cause I mean, look, it made a, it made 122. It made, uh, what five times what, what, what they put into it. Right.
Speaker: So cool. You made a lot of money and probably because of Robert De Niro, let's face it, people wanted to go see him in the movie, but like, Other than that, I just think he was very much miscast.
Speaker: Like, yeah, very, very miscast. i I kind of wonder, would this film have worked better if it wouldn't ah have been him? And it's very possible that it that it might have been. I almost feel like, you know, look, the dad in this movie, David Calloway, who also, by the way, is Charlie. That's the big the big twist.
Speaker: um I almost feel like if it was a nobody, this might have actually been a lot better. But i I just couldn't get over that it was Robert De Niro.
Speaker: um Beyond that, um a Elizabeth Shue is so interesting to watch. um You know, I used to really like Elizabeth Shue. And um like one of the movies that I used to love to watch when I was young was The Saint with Val Kilmer. Oh, God. i used to love that movie. and And I love the soundtrack. That soundtrack was so good. See, for me, it was hollow man. Oh my God. But Elizabeth shoe is a strange actress.
Speaker: Um, and I, I didn't see it back then, but I definitely see it now. Like she, she's not, it's, it's at once again, it's almost impossible to not think that it's Elizabeth shoe the entire time. yet I don't know if that makes any sense.
Speaker: Like her, the way that she speaks is just so bizarre sometimes. Um, so that, that was kind of weird. I don't know. Like, It's just a strange little movie.
Speaker: And look, the twist is good at the end. It is, you know, did you block it or did you experience it in real time? I experienced it in real time. um i didn't i I didn't think I wasn't. I'll be honest. It was we we watched a lot of movies to get to where we are right now, folks.
Speaker: This this is the last one that I watched. So like with this one, i what maybe my brain wasn't fully turned on. I'll grant you that. Um, so I didn't see it coming, but I can see how other people would have seen it coming.
Speaker: That's not a problem. Um, but even then, like once I know, i just didn't really feel it. How did you feel about it? I think in a lot of ways, this is a reaction to the sixth sense.
Speaker: so That's interesting. and And like how they crafted the movie and how, and honestly how they, um, how they, uh, casted the movie. I think that they casted it to have like these strong, have a Bruce Willis in there basically. Exactly. Yeah. And even like, even Elizabeth shoe and Famke Janssen at the time, like they were big names. Nicole Fanning was up and coming. Like she had already done, um Oh God, what's that movie where she plays alongside of, it doesn't matter.
Speaker: yeah and But like this was, this was cast to be a Hollywood picture. If that makes any sense, that does make sense. It does. um And so like, i I had seen this before. I don't remember if it was a theater or not. I just honestly can't remember 2005. There's like a weird, there's a weird part of my adulthood in college where I was doing so much that I don't remember. Totally.
Speaker: um But I remembered this movie and I'd recommended it for the episode. And when I went back into it, i was just stricken by like how depressing it is. It's just it's it's a it's a slog of a movie that takes itself so seriously. Yeah. And it's like I i don't disagree with you on that.
Speaker: and it's And it's totally like way overscored. There's music in places where you don't need music. it's it It reeks of like Hollywood of the early aughts. And i know it struck me this time more than ever.
Speaker: um and Listen, I did know i did know the the the quote unquote twist. um But it's kind of a weird twist because... our Our Dakota fanning, our Emily, she's so um plucky and so like in tune to like what adults think. and like wow you know It's it's that it's like that insatiable child like that that knows everything and is very adult-like. Think of like The Ring.
Speaker: Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah And so it it's kind of weird to me that she wouldn't come forward to someone about what her dad is doing.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I get from the beginning of the movie, like I get that she didn't know that, um that, that it turns out, you know, spoiler alert that he killed his wife. She didn't commit suicide, but like everything beyond that with like the cat and with Elizabeth shoe and with all these things, I'm like, why wouldn't you tell someone yeah or at least confront your own dad? So like the predication of the twist is,
Speaker: doesn't really work all that much for me and maybe that's just modernize i don't know but um that that's kind of my first impression um i still i i like the movie is this one i'm gonna return to not never probably not never um but like i think like you said i think robert de niro is has massively like not cast correctly in this movie. i think that he can't pull off the sexual lead that we need to believe for Elizabeth Shue. can't pull off the dad that we need for Emily.
Speaker: i just think that it's not him. i don't know. it's i'm trying i struggle to think like who else could maybe be put in this in this movie because it was made in 2004, 2003. just think that he's maybe...
Speaker: but i just think that he's maybe i don't know if he's too old at this point or if it's just he doesn't give off the right vibe for this movie. You know mean? Yeah, I do. i i'm the It just doesn't make any sense to me. It really doesn't.
Speaker: And he doesn't he doesn't even pull off like like the like the struggling struggling single like because they literally The most unbelievable part of this movie, especially to modernize, is that they are able to pack up and move in a day northern New York.
Speaker: And they just buy a house um sight unseen. Yeah. which is insane to me. um and and he doesn't even like, i know that he's Dr. David Calloway, but he never sees any patients in the movie. that's funny He only is like predicated on talking about his own daughter who doesn't pay him, by the way.
Speaker: So where are they getting all this money from? He must have had a lot of money and and in reserve or something. it's I mean, I get what you're saying. that it's it's um It's not a whole view here. And yeah like look, how how could things be better? Okay, well, one of the things that could be better is, you know, like, look, it might be interesting if he's still seeing clients in in in upstate New York.
Speaker: Absolutely. And the clients come to the house and they see things happening and this and that, whatever. Instead of, you know, OK, the one of the one of the ah devices of the movies that they moved to the middle of nowhere in upstate New York, where where the sheriff and the guy that finds the house for them tell them that there's no one else around.
Speaker: Right. I mean, like neighbor. Right. that This could have been something quite different if um if that was not the case. Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. And I think it would add another layer of like who's actually in on this, like who's actually Charlie. Because we we kind of get like a weird, like false ah Charlie with the neighbor, but I never believed it.
Speaker: I never believed that that guy was in on it, like that he was the Charlie. yeah I also strangely thought that neighbor was kind of cute. don't know why. Yeah, I get it. i could see that for you.
Speaker: um But and then, you know, we get the introducing of Amy Irving, which Amy Irving is an incredible actress. But like that and that angle is never fully understood because we see like he's kind of spying on them and we see them arguing and we understand that they lost a daughter.
Speaker: but like it never really plays into the movie. like Agreed. It's just kind of it's kind of that what lies beneath um aspect of the movie of like there's a neighbor that you think is going to be somehow played into the script, but then they never are. And you're just like, OK, I guess we needed to learn about that for some reason.
Speaker: Exactly. Yeah, I don't know. um I thought that I talked about the score earlier, but I don't. Did you clock anything about the score? Because it was annoying me. You know, don't really like like like looking back right now. I don't really remember it. If I'm being honest, tell me, tell me what, tell me what bothered you.
Speaker: There was just, there was music at every point at every point it was scored. And it like drove me insane because at some points with ah either um like high intensity or where you're supposed to be spooked, it was just so much music. I was like, can we just not like live in this for a second? Yeah. I think if if it bangs you over the head, then that's it's not it's it it could it has the power of doing the opposite, and the which is to not bring you in, but to actually draw you out.
Speaker: um Some parts I did like, I do think that Dakota Fanning did a really good job of, you know, being the, you know, the quote quote unquote, disturbed child. think that, you know, she was a great little actress when she was when she was younger. And I think she does a great job here with what she's given.
Speaker: i think one of my favorite lines is where she is playing with the um a little girl that they brought over for her to be friends with. And um she's like talking and the the other girls talking, talking, talking, like little girls do. And then she's like, you sure don't talk much. And then Dakota Vanning just like literally looks at her and she goes, I don't need any new friends.
Speaker: And I was like, you know what, girl, I don't either. Yeah. Amen, girl. I get it. um There's some wheat the some weird things in this that I clocked this time around, and I think it's Robert De Niro delivering these lines that like really like weirded me out. is like There are several moments in the movie where people say about...
Speaker: um Emily where they're like oh she sure is pretty or she sure is this she sure is that and he just says thank you every time and every time I'm just like ew that's so gross like it's just kind of weird you know look Robert De Niro i once again I just I love Robert De Niro I really only need Robert De Niro in like gangster movies.
Speaker: Yeah. If I'm being real. And like, look, he does a phenomenal job. Like think about the amazing films he has been in. Goodfellas, The Irishman, Casino, the fucking godfather for God's sake. Like, I mean, get out of here with this.
Speaker: And like, he's done a lot of other great things too. Taxi Driver, et cetera, et cetera. But I think when he plays, when he tries to play and look, I'm aware that this person has associated disorder, but most of the film, we see him as normal David.
Speaker: And every man. Yeah, exactly. Like that is very hard to believe with Robert De Niro. just I agree. I don't know what else to say. It's like you, you can't, It's like he's not capable of it. It's not that it's not that he's not a good actor. He is great actor.
Speaker: But that is just something that doesn't, it just doesn't read with him. It just doesn't. Him as an actor is just grander than that. Like he can't it' can settle. Like he can't settle into like the everyman. Yeah. I mean, you're asking you're asking a king to play a pauper. And and that is that is very difficult to do, I think.
Speaker: Yeah. um Some things in my notes. um I thought it was very weird that it opened with a black screen saying first day of the new year.
Speaker: Yeah, that was that was strange. Like what? Who made that decision? And I know like we didn't need that. We could have just like let the movie play out. Very fucking strange.
Speaker: um I did think it was weird. ah So um the wife, who eventually we understand he kills, not that didn't you know take her own life. um At the party um that we we we learned that she was committing her infidelity, ah she's wearing a gold dress.
Speaker: But when she's at home drinking her wine with her with her pills and getting ready to go up to bed, she's wearing a black dress. So i didn't know if that was just like a mistake Or is that the one that she that the little girl is wearing? Yes. And she comes on to dinner?
Speaker: Bingo. So why what's with the gold dress? Where did the gold dress go? just think Well, maybe it's like that thing where, okay, look at the dress. What color do you think it is? don't know. No, don't do that to me. me. It's actually actually do that it's not gold. It's actually black. I'm going to kill you.
Speaker: um I did think that, um i you know, i had a I had a real appreciation for Famke Janssen. haven't seen her a lot lately. And I was kind of like, oh, I kind of miss her face. Mostly just for her name. Like what a name that is. My God.
Speaker: um And I just I like her as an actress and we don't we don't see her that much anymore. I loved her as Jean Grey in the X-Men movies. Oh, yeah. um that And then the other thing in my notes, I said, oh, no, they have a cat because I knew something bad was going to happen.
Speaker: Oh, no. Yeah. um A lot of this movie, I think that like. This is a 90 minute movie shoved into an hour and 45 minute movie.
Speaker: Do you agree? agree oh Listen, this movie could have been done in 80 minutes. Yeah, I agree. and the and that And the twist would have been just as good. Yeah, like look. shorter Shorter the film, the more likely I am to like it. I'll be perfectly honest with you. There were there were there were one too many um bathtub but ah messages.
Speaker: Yes, enough. and Enough. like can you see me now? Like, no, the because you wrote it. i don't know. Yeah, actually, we can't. like So do do we really need to see that? I think, of you know, some of these things, we we don't need to have things in threes. Sometimes things in ones is also okay.
Speaker: So, you know, one bathtub scene there, that makes sense. It does. oh I have have one pun written in my notes. Do you want to hear it? What is it? The doctor is insane. Oh, my goodness. You know, listen, that the that there there's that there's a career for you in that, Andrew. I'll tell you what. Listen, what else you have to say about this? scene Because I think we could probably bash it for a long time.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I think that this one's, it's just, and maybe it's a product of its time. I think that maybe that's like what we're hearkening on. i mean, unfair we we got a little self-serious in the early aughts after nine eleven and everything like got super dark and super serious. So I think that that maybe this is just kind of a product of that.
Speaker: yeah um I think that the the one that the one that I really liked was the flip book. I don't know if you saw like the, if you remember like when she does the little flip book. Yes, and then it gets red. Yeah, I think that those little things are good. i think that Dakota Fanning is good. i think that Elizabeth Shue is fine.
Speaker: I think that Famke Jansen is good. i think her becoming the hero at the end is a little weird given the context of the movie. Um, and I think that them having a center place, a centerpiece of just pine cones is just fucking so weird. It is very, very strange. Um, I don't know. This is, this is a mixed bag for me. I kind of, I kind of like it in a way and I kind of think it's kind of dumb.
Speaker: So what do you give hide and seek? So here at Friday the 13th, we rate on a seven stripe scale to represent the ah the pride flag, of course.
Speaker: um So look, I give it a three and a half, I'll be honest. um And yeah ah you know sometimes I'm a bit more, I've been more forgiving with films lately, but this one I was like, no, I think you really do deserve the three and a half here.
Speaker: So um that's right in the middle. It's average. Like I said, we've seen worse, but I said, looking back at some De Niro films, it's just so bizarre that they cast him in the first place. Yeah, I'm going give it a four because I think Dakota Fanning does a great job. yeah um But other than that, I said, it's a good enough tale, but geez, do we have to be so serious?
Speaker: Agreed. Well, look, we'll be right back with our next film, Imaginary. And spoiler alert, we like this one a lot better. Every culture has a name for it. We call them imaginary friends.
Speaker: How does it feel being back? Good. I had such good memories here. Maybe my happy place can be our happy place? Who left you all alone down here?
Speaker: I'm playing a new game with Chauncey. The scavenger hunt list, that's fun. Chauncey says you're not allowed to play with us. Oh. Because you left him. I need something happy.
Speaker: Something happy? Ugh, thought Bugs freaked you out. If I can finish my list, Troncy will take me on a trip to the place he's from.
Speaker: Something that hurts.
Speaker: Alice? You've been spending time with a new friend?
Speaker: He asked you to do something that hurt you. It was part of the game. Does that seem like a game a good friend would want to play? Maybe we shouldn't play together anymore, Chauncey!
Speaker: Maybe we shouldn't be friends! No, no, no, no, no!
Speaker: Alice? Alice! Alice? Alice? Alice! Alice!
Speaker: She's lost, but we're gonna find her. Every culture has entities that tether to the young. We call them imaginary friends.
Speaker: um You are always playing with your imaginary friend. When the connection is severed, the entity becomes enraged.
Speaker: He says he's right behind you.
Speaker: But it was just imagination. Can I hang out with your imaginary friend? He's not imaginary. He's not your friend.
Speaker: Hey, are you real or are you imaginary? Maddie, talk to us all about imaginary. Meet Chauncey. He's not imaginary and he's not your friend.
Speaker: When Jessica moves back into her childhood home with her family, her youngest stepdaughter, Alice, develops an eerie attachment to a stuffed bear named Chauncey she finds in the basement.
Speaker: Alice starts playing games with Chauncey that begin playful and become increasingly sinister. As Alice's behavior becomes more and more concerning, Jessica intervenes only to realize Chauncey is much more than the stuffed toy bear she believed him to be.
Speaker: Imaginary is directed by Jeff Wadlow, written by Jeff Wadlow, Greg Erb, and Jason Oremland, produced by Blumhouse Productions, and distributed by Lionsgate. That's a lot of Lionsgate in the past couple episodes.
Speaker: ah Jessica, played by Dewanda Wise, Max, played by Tom Payne, Taylor by Tegan Burns, Alice by Piper Braun, ah Piper is spelled with a Gloria, played by none other than Betty Buckley.
Speaker: This film was rated PG-13. It's 104-minute long made in the usa filmed in new orleans released march 8th of 2024 with a budget of 13 million it grossed worldwide 43.8 million not a bad return um this was my first time watching an android don't know if it was for you was it i i saw it um not too long ago like maybe like a year ago And what'd you think?
Speaker: So imaginary. um ah I was pleasantly surprised by this movie. um Listen, we're coming at a time where Blumhouse or whatever, however you fucking want to say it. People have corrected me a million times on this pronunciation, but whatever. um um it It comes at a time where Blumhouse has maybe wavered.
Speaker: a little bit in favor of, of horror fans, because I think when they, you know, first developed the production house, it was like hit after hit after hit, much like how a 24 is perceived today.
Speaker: um And I think that this comes at a time where people were a little exhausted with the, the Jason Blum of it all. um And so I, I went in with like minimal expectations and this one was like, it just surprised me with the ideas that it brought to the table And and kind of how they told the story and kind of gave me a little bit more hope going back into this production house. And at the end of the day, I had a ton of fun with it. It's a very fun movie. Yeah. um And it's very disturbing. And there are things that made me jump. And I think some of the CGI maybe doesn't work as well as what they want it to.
Speaker: Um, but overall I had a good time with this. We'll talk about the details as we, know, discuss the film, but I, I kind of just, this was kind of just like, put it on and and it's a fun little yeah jaunt into the, into the night. What did you think?
Speaker: Yeah. Uh, I was, I was ah pretty similar and, and, into and into, into what you were thinking here. Um, you know, uh, I think, you know, when when these production houses start up, they they do a lot of good stuff and then it just suddenly slides into a factory of a lot of bullshit.
Speaker: yeah And, you know, it's this it's the same thing that you were saying here, like a lot of Blumhouse stuff. I'm just sort of like, OK, whatever now. Like it it feels a bit more like I said, it's kind of like a factory just kind of like pushing it out. um And so with this one, I'll be honest, I was kind of like, oh, this is going to be, is this like one I'm just going to find on Shudder kind of thing? you know what I mean?
Speaker: yeah um And it turned out not to be. i think that this was, um i i think it was really good, honestly. i really appreciated the way that it was done. um I think that there were some some truly creepy moments.
Speaker: I think that the acting was really good across across the across the entire cast. yeah great Even down to like the the like the the kid that comes to visit the older stepdaughter. He's like you like is like a a boy or whatever.
Speaker: Even delinquent. Yeah. Even even he was really good. i thought he really played that role really well. And, you know, like you the the younger daughter, she's a typical younger kid. You know, she's a precocious child. She's not going to be she's not going to be perfect in her acting is what I mean there.
Speaker: um But I mean, she was she was pretty good. And and the mom, what's the mom's name again? Damn it. Jessica, Jessica, Jessica, I thought was really good. So well done.
Speaker: So yeah, I mean, i I had a great time with this movie. It it it really surprised me. um Like I said, i ah it was obviously, you know, really spooky, too. Or or i I wouldn't be giving it the rating that I'm going to give it that you'll hear later on.
Speaker: And hey, to have Betty Buckley in the movie, that's pretty cool too. Like how cool is that? So yeah yeah, all in all, ah really good a really good one for this. I enjoyed it. Yeah. So um i listen, I had seen this movie before, but I remember my first watch. Did you um kind of perceive any of the...
Speaker: the twists because there's two major twists uh no i i i didn't um and i didn't either got i might not be a good twist discerner to be honest like i i don't i don't often get the twists in movies um unless unless it's obvious and unless it's it's it's you know it's it's it's poorly done this one i did not get it no Well, it's it's different because like in a movie like, you know, Hide and Seek, which we we just discussed, like that's like um that's like the like quintessential twist, if you will, like a sixth sense or the hide and seek like type of thing.
Speaker: This one kind of gets you a little bit gaggy if if you if you if you yeah understand like. it's you don't expect a twist and then all of a sudden there is one and you're like oh shit they got me because I definitely remember watching this movie and thinking that bear was fucking real like I did not clock that that was a figment of imagination completely like and and it's almost like well why why would you think that to be honest like there's there's not a lot of clues that it wouldn't be so right I actually but I mean are there any clues that it wasn't
Speaker: that you can i don't think so because it's just like there i um i almost feel like if anybody did say that they got the twist i'd be like no you didn't like you're making i think the i think the only clue and this is not ah this is not really like a quote unquote like clue is that the bear moves and like i guess fair yeah so i guess that that but i'm i'm telling you what the that part of the cgi where they make that little they make that little bear move, like a teddy rock spin.
Speaker: That was creepy. Oh, it's extremely creepy. like I mean, imagine imagine if you were that boy going up there to get towels from the bathroom and you see all that shit. i mean That whole scene had me on edge of my seat. And I mean, truly. I mean, it that it was it was one of the scariest parts of the movie. And like and it worked extremely well. It was very, very effective. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, the pull string well of it all. Jesus Christ Almighty. When he like stepped on that on the pull string and then the bear started coming towards him, I was like, what are we doing? What are we doing?
Speaker: You know, one one thing that I wonder if you thought this too, did you think of Hellraiser at all when when you were watching this? No, but I did think of Insidious.
Speaker: Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. I guess for me, like though though the way that they went into the world so interesting just kind of reminded me a bit of how they go in see that into hell and Hellraiser. Yeah, I can see that. It had similar feelings, and it must have been inspired at least a little bit by that. But I didn't even think about Insidious. That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker: Yeah. um I do like all the talk about how... um uh the teddy bear uh chauncey how he's always hungry and he's like and listen for his rumble tummy he's always hungry that's like so weird that's oh and also like okay just to skip all the way to the end when like when they're out of it and everything and and they're at the hotel and that they see the they see another kid with clearly another chauncey type type spirit thing And then the little girl just goes, should we go to the next hotel?
Speaker: i actually I actually laughed at that part. I was like, you know what? That is kind of funny. I really enjoyed that. It's a very poltergeisty. Totally. To put that at the end. Yeah, it was so good.
Speaker: And i listen, I think that the inclusion of Gloria, Betty Buckley, and her... um her reason for wanting to get involved, I think is pretty interesting in the grand scheme of the movie, because we kind of see her as just kind of like the, ah come like ah the the, the, the crazy lady next door. And like the way that she gets like weaved into the story and the way that sure, her motivations for like getting into the the imaginary world, I thought it was an added layer that they didn't need, but it was very interesting that they like put that in there. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: um One thing that one thing that i will um I will say that the movie doesn't do a good job of is that both the little girl and Jessica both have scars.
Speaker: And we never really learn what those scars are from. Because we get the backstory that their mom is has mental ah you know disabilities, but we don't ever learn why she has the burn scars.
Speaker: Do you know what mean? Yeah. i didn't even Honestly, i didn't think about that. i wonder I wonder why they chose to do that. i Because they do like make a I actually think like that part where she stumbles upon her in the in the ah tea party. And then there's like an actual person there. I thought that was really well done.
Speaker: But like we don't ever really truly get like the explanation of the birth mother. You know what mean? Like she's she's with she's woven in a little bit. But I think that they could have done a better job of Just understanding that aspect of the mental illness, how that works into the kids, and like how that is making all of this work.
Speaker: You know what I mean? I'll tell you, speaking of the kids, I'm glad that the older one redeems themselves because I'll tell you what, throughout the movie, I was like... I was like, you know what you need? you need a solid smack across the face. Seriously. Because you need to stop being a little cunt to everybody. She was awful. What's wrong with you? She was terrible. Oh my God. But you know what? She played it really well.
Speaker: She played it very well. And I do like that we get the kind of like payoff of Jessica kind of telling her off to get the quote unquote pain. Oh my God, that was something else. That was something else.
Speaker: It was nice to see. Oh my God. um ah Yeah, just overall, I think that um i think that the depiction of like the quote-unquote imaginary world was pretty fun like with all the different doors. And you kind of yeah like put it to your own imagination of like what exists you know beyond all those different doors of different kids with different... like imaginary friends and stuff i think that that's something really interesting to think about and um i do like the uh payoff of cb chauncey bear was yeah pretty good i don't know i just think that this was one that maybe people passed on and i think that it deserves a little bit of time in the sun for people to discover because i think that this is a kind of a diamond in the rough if you if if you will
Speaker: I agree. I think this is a a redeeming one for Blumhouse. um I think, you know, as we've already discussed, like it's it's it's fun. and And it does have some some genuinely scary moments. Like, really, like, ah fuck was like, oh god damn, that is really fucking creepy.
Speaker: When Chauncey Bear turns into Chauncey Bear. Oh, god. Yeah. very scary what the what the fuck man and it's just and once again just you know going back to it it is played really well and and the movie ends up being a lot more emotional than you would think to be honest too like there was it's about broken families like it is um one thing that i clocked in my watching of this is i couldn't determine if they were trying to make the husband british or not I thought that he was British.
Speaker: I know, but like his his accent wavers drastically. Like yeah he sometimes sounds just like normal English Midwestern and then sometimes sounds pretty British. And I was just like, what are we? And, you know what look listen, he's not like the antithesis of the movie. Like he's very much a side character. But it just drove me insane that. Like, did you film part of this thinking he was British and part of this thinking he was English? I'm going to look him up to see if if he is British. I mean, I i imagine that he must be.
Speaker: let me see here. man Or was his or was his like ah accent breaking through? or you know what I mean? like i I couldn't determine what they were trying to do with him. Let's see. Yeah, he is from Essex. he was ah he's from he's he's ah he's He's my age, actually. he's from the bed He's a little bit younger than me.
Speaker: ah Born in Chelmsford in Essex. So he is indeed British. um i did like that they in the imaginary world was kind of like an etcher painting i thought that was ah yeah really cool yeah agree um i think that the false ending is actually handled really well yeah um because i fell for it the first time around i don't know did you did you look like quote unquote yeah fire so yeah i thought that i thought that was going to be it where it was like the happy ending is the happy ending of her reading the story to her dad in the nursing home. And yeah everyone's happy again. and then all of a sudden her she's like, well, it's almost like, i don't know. Did you watch the good place?
Speaker: Yeah, not yet, but I will watch that. i Okay, so i won't so i won't I won't spoil anything for you, but there's a ah very similar kind of feeling in that show that happens. um But I did like when she was just, she's sitting there and all sudden she goes, I'm still here.
Speaker: And then everything like fades away. Whoa. And it goes very like Coraline for a second where everyone has like the, the, the, the bug eyes. um I did want a little bit more information on why the bug eyes, because at the beginning of the movie, we see kind of like a nightmare of hers where her dad turns into kind of like a spider guy.
Speaker: creature yeah and then that's also featured later on in the movie but we also see that um you know um cb uh chauncey bear is a big bear and we also see him as kind of an entity with like um with like uh what do you call that like shadow eyes i don't know how you would yeah like um that can kind of project like it if you will yeah um and those there's some and that was well done Yeah, I agree. And there are some moments where you see that creature in the basement in the background.
Speaker: And that's fucking car creepy. Completely. Truly. Like, that's what I see in my nightmares, which I have many of. It's going to give me nightmares now. I can tell you that. but um I did love that in the fantasy world ah where – what's the little girl's name? Alice, right? Alice. Yeah.
Speaker: Where she has, like, all these presents, and she's in her own apartment, and she's, like, got a little doggie that has ton of attitude. Oh, I'm happy here. course you are. The dog cracked me up because every step it took, it was just kind of like – but um the The bed stuff in this movie. Listen, I think the bed is like, it's one of the most terrifying places. It's where because it's where terror lives is under your bed.
Speaker: And when they did that sequence where they were under the covers, And they're playing hide and seek. And all of a sudden you actually hear something because they all think it's like make believe. They think it's just like an imaginary friend.
Speaker: But then Jessica hears something because she's under the influence of the entity, if you will. um And she sees that little pop, that little paw. Yeah. at the i I was freaking out, man. you felt i mean Imagine seeing that in real life. My God, you fucking you you jump out the window.
Speaker: Yeah. um And so overall, I mean, and I will. There is one thing in my note that I thought was wild is that that neighbor boy has shutters on the inside of his windows. Weird. Isn't that weird? do you Have you ever encountered shutters on the inside? Well, why would you have them inside?
Speaker: i don't know. it was just so wild to me that he just shut a shutter her. That just doesn't make any sense. I thought that he was going to be more of a character, if I'm being honest. I thought he was going to be like more part of the the thing, but he's kind of just seen as like the delinquent that's like trying to you know be the delinquent with the with the one daughter, with Taylor.
Speaker: um When he brings over the... ah What does he bring over? He brings over... he says it's Molly, but it's actually allergy medication. allergy medication. Jesus. um Yeah, just over. I think that this is one that people should should go back to and i hear here here in the States. You can watch it on stars if you have a membership um or you can rent it. by like i want access I watched it over here on Amazon Prime.
Speaker: okay So it was it was it was, you know, quote unquote, free to watch over here. But Andrew, tell me, what did you rate this film? Listen, i i gave this one a five and a half. I said, and I really like this one. I think it's fun. I think it's spooky. Maybe a little bit too much CGI, but I can't really fault it for that.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm right with you. I gave it a five and a half. And I said, look, I like this one way more than I thought I would. So it was a really great surprise. I really do highly recommend. See Imaginary.
Speaker: cool Well, that does it for horror in real life. I'm sorry, horror in the movies. But we have a fun little game to close out the show. It's called and Tinfoil Hat or Real Life Event.
Speaker: So this is Mila. She's been seeing an imaginary friend for the past two months. So tonight we're going find out if she's real or not. Come on, guys. I'll show you. Go ahead, Drew. Where's Brooklyn at?
Speaker: She's in my car. What's in the closet? You need to be quiet because she's sleeping in there. What did she just say? No. No, no. Please don't open that.
Speaker: She's in there. She's in there. Don't go in there. She's hiding somewhere. Oh my God. She's under the back. No, no.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: Well, folks, that was episode 149 of Fragge the 13th Horror Podcast. But before we leave you, we have a great game. As usual, Andrew always brings some great games that he thinks up to the podcast. Aw, thank so much.
Speaker: You're welcome. This one is called tinfoil hat or rate or real life event, which is a question I ask myself every day um about my own life. um So Andrew, tell us, how are we going to play the game?
Speaker: So I have a series of events and you're going to tell me if they are imaginary Or if they are a real life event. So a lot of these are either conspiracy theories or real things that have happened.
Speaker: Okay, let's play. All right. So the first one, I'm just going to give you the title and you have to tell me and then I'll give you some, I'll give you some description afterwards. Yeah. All right. So the first one is operation Northwoods.
Speaker: I'm going to say tinfoil hat. This is actually real, um but with the caveat that it never was carried out. Whoa. This is a 1960s U.S. military plan purpose her um proposing false flag attacks to justify the war with Cuba, but it was rejected by JFK.
Speaker: Thank God. Jesus, my Lord. right. Your next one is Project Bluebeam.
Speaker: Tinfoil hat. You're correct. This is imaginary. This is a conspiracy theory about NASA staging a fake alien invasion or religious event with holograms. And there's no events that this actually ever happened.
Speaker: Oh, my God. i i love people and their crazy brains. All right. Your next one is the Philadelphia Experiment. This is a real life event. This is imaginary. it was an see it was It was an alleged World War two Navy experiment to make a ship invisible, but there is no credible evidence. was thinking of the Manhattan experiment. Never mind.
Speaker: All right. Your next one is... The the Manhattan Project. Yeah, yeah. ah Your next one is Operation Mockingbird. Oh, I want this to be a real life. It's a real life event.
Speaker: You're correct. This is a cold, a cold war CIA effort to influence, influence media and journalists. Ooh, are we not still in this today? i think it's just, I think we just never stop. Right. Basically. Yeah. all right. Your next one is we have three more. Your next one is the candle Cove broadcasts.
Speaker: Tinfoil hat. You're correct. This is imaginary. This was an internet creepypasta about a creepy kids TV show, pure fiction. It was also featured on the first season of ah that show that I can't remember the name of. I want it. I want it to be real though. It sounds good. All right. Your next one is Project Stargate.
Speaker: Real life. This is real. And I want to know more about it because this was a U.S. government funded remote viewing psychic research. oh that. So i bet I bet I've actually read about this. Yeah. um And from from from Lou Elizondo in his book. Oh, what is it fucking called? It's about.
Speaker: ah It's on my bookshelf. One second. Where are you? He's looking. it's It's in the book imminent by by Lou Elizondo. He talks about this. Yeah. It's, it's really interesting stuff. Yeah. So it actually happened between the 1970 and the 1990s, but it produced no actionable intelligence.
Speaker: But however, you should read into it. I'll tell you what it, it worked. It worked over and over Your last one is operation midnight climax. Yeah.
Speaker: i I want this to be real. I'm going to say it's real. You're correct. It was a CIA safe houses where unwitting subjects were given LSD and observed often during compromising situations. Oh my God. Jesus Christ. God, you know, God loved the CIA. You know what? Do we?
Speaker: No, we don't. We don't for sure. Andrew, that was fun. A good little game. Thank you. Yeah, of course. I love doing them. But that does it for episode 149. We're almost to 150. So if you haven't left us review. The sesquicentennial. Wait, can I just say this to just to quote ah Waiting for Guffman? Sure. the thats whats and The sesquicentennial. That's the big 150. There you go. So if you haven't left us a review by now, but I don't know how to help you. and First off, you're an idiot. Like, just go fucking do it.
Speaker: You can do that on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. We'd be very thankful. And we will we'll read them. We read every single one of them. It's not hard. do it um and if you want if you want if you have the means to do so and you've enjoyed this last hour and a half or so of conversation between myself and my counterpart matty you can maybe become a patron i don't know patreon.com slash friday13 and donate a dollar a dollar it's a dollar you you spend more on us literally everything it's
Speaker: in this economy. so i mean I mean, yeah, look, it's you ah we say this every episode almost now, but like there's other levels that you can give at, but like you don't have to. We don't care. Truly, a dollar a month from from a bunch of people, we'd rather have that than a bunch of money from a few people. Yeah, because we are an independent podcast. We don't pocket any of this money or we're not beholden to anybody else. so yeah like yeah all that All this does, it covers it covers our costs. That's it. And like there are a lot of costs when you have a website what when you we need a website, when you have a podcast like this, like a website, like ah the software we use to record, like our equipment, like the stuff we have to rent, all that kind of stuff.
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Speaker: Yeah, it's very, very cool. So thank you. And, you know, at the end of the day, after everything's said and done, we really only want you to do one thing, and that's for you to go ahead and... Get slayed!
