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Stop Hinting, Start Asking: The Dear Man Skill for Assertive Communication (DBT mini-season part 7)
125 Plays9 days ago
Most of us were never taught how to ask for what we need — we were taught how to be nice, how to be agreeable, and how to silently hope the other person would just figure it out. And when they didn't, we either resented them or came in way too hot trying to make up for lost time.
In this very special episode, James unpacks interpersonal effectiveness — the DBT module that's less about managing yourself and more about navigating other people, which, let's be honest, is the hard part. He covers how to get clear on what you actually want from a conversation before you open your mouth (spoiler: most of us skip this step), and walks through Dear Man, a structured skill for asking for things clearly, directly, and kindly without being apologetic or aggressive.
This is episode seven of the DBT mini-season.
You'll come away with:
- A framework for identifying your real goal in any difficult conversation (objective, relationship, or self-respect — and why you can only pick one)
- A full walkthrough of the Dear Man skill with real examples
- A short practice exercise to apply it to one thing you've been avoiding
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Transcript
Introduction to Interpersonal Effectiveness
00:00:00
Speaker
Interpersonal effectiveness is kind of like the adult version of those choose your adventure books, except instead of the options being you fought a dragon and found the treasure, it's you set a boundary and are still a good person.
00:00:15
Speaker
And we wonder why there are less readers these days.
Overview of DBT Mini-Season
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome back to Friendless Sweet Peas. I'm your host, James Avramenko, and this is episode seven of our DBT mini season. We are moving into the final module, interpersonal effectiveness.
Managing Relationships
00:00:41
Speaker
And right off the bat, This module is kind of its own bag of cats because every other module we've covered has been mostly about you managing your own internal experience.
00:00:54
Speaker
Mindfulness is about you and your brain. Distress tolerance, you and your nervous system. Emotional regulation, you and your feelings. But interpersonal skills, well, that means this one is about other people.
00:01:10
Speaker
And other people are complicated. They have their own needs, their own feelings, their own interpretations of everything you say and do. You can't control them.
Challenges of Setting Boundaries
00:01:18
Speaker
You can't debug them. You can only control how you show up in the conversation.
00:01:25
Speaker
And most of us, we weren't really taught directly how to do that. Instead, more often we were taught things like how to be nice, how to be agreeable, how to not rock the boat.
00:01:39
Speaker
You know, sort of like how to read other people's minds and hope that they'd just read ours. And then when that inevitably didn't work, we either became people pleasers who grow to resent everyone, or we overcorrected and started burning bridges every time we tried to stand up for ourselves.
00:02:02
Speaker
But there is a middle ground. am here to it's awkward. It's uncomfortable. And it's also learnable. And that is basically what interpersonal effectiveness is.
Focus Areas in Conversations
00:02:16
Speaker
So today we're going to be covering three things. How to figure out what you actually want from a conversation before you open your mouth, because truthfully, most of us kind of skip that step and then we wonder why the conversation went sideways. Then we're going to look at the Dear Man skill, yet another acronym.
00:02:33
Speaker
This is a structured way to ask for things clearly and assertively without being either apologetic or aggressive. And then we're gonna look at basically why most of us are really terrible at this, because we are.
00:02:46
Speaker
And understanding why will help. But let's start with the mess. yeah So let me start with a story about my own journey with setting boundaries and then crashing spectacularly.
Personal Struggles with Boundaries
00:03:02
Speaker
So I've historically not been the best at communicating my boundaries. And I think a large part of that is owed to that. I often don't even know what my boundaries are until it's kind of too late.
00:03:18
Speaker
You know, there's been countless times where I was just kind of going along with whatever was happening, thinking, you know, I'm keeping the peace. i'm I'm just going along to get along. And then I find out after that it wasn't actually what I wanted to be doing.
00:03:36
Speaker
A simple example would be, you know, i used to be really bad at setting personal limits around my kind of energy. Someone would ask me to do something, you know, or help with a project, show up to an event, whatever it might be.
00:03:47
Speaker
And I would worry internally that it was going to take up too much of my energy, that I didn't actually have the kind of bandwidth for it. or you know kind of more plainly that I just didn't feel like I could say no.
00:04:02
Speaker
But instead of saying that directly, i would just kind of like talk around the point. I'm sure you've heard either me do this or you've heard yourself do it. You know, you kind of, you talk,
00:04:14
Speaker
yeah I like to call it, you use 10 words when one would have sufficed, right? You know, I'll say things like, oh yeah, I mean, like I could try maybe, but like, I don't know if I'm like really the best person for this. And, you know, I'm just not sure if I've like got the time, but I guess if you really need me, you know, I could like probably figure something out, you know?
00:04:33
Speaker
That's not a boundary. but but That's like the mutant stepchild of an apology ah because what was actually coming out of my mouth was so unclear that the other person would end up confused or worse they'd then get defensive right they'd be thinking i was somehow you know complaining or being passive aggressive so here i am thinking that I'm doing that sort of stock people pleasing behavior. You know, I'm being accommodating, I'm being nice, I'm not making waves.
00:05:07
Speaker
But instead, I'm receiving the stock people pleasing outcome, which is to end up escalating the exact situation that I think I'm controlling.
00:05:17
Speaker
And I'd end up doing the thing anyway. because they had heard, yes, I'll figure it out. When I meant, I really don't want to, but part of my brain worries that saying no will kill me.
00:05:31
Speaker
And then I would be resentful at them for asking, at myself for not saying no just at that whole situation.
Clarifying Needs in Conversations
00:05:40
Speaker
And what I wish I had done, and what we're gonna be talking about in this episode, is just to get clear first with myself about what I wanted and needed.
00:05:51
Speaker
and then communicate that as clearly and plainly as possible to the other person. I think often we jump to giving an answer too fast. and this is the This is a tangent, but I try not to give immediate answers when people ask for, whether it's for help or for me to go to something or or whatever it might be. I like to pause now and I like to say, I'll think about it, let me get back to you, right?
00:06:16
Speaker
It really boils down to the answer can be no That's it. That's the sentence. you know That whole no is a complete sentence.
00:06:29
Speaker
It's not just the complete sentence when it comes to consent dynamics. In fact, in a lot of ways, this technically is consent dynamics. you know I had an ex who used to love to say, everything is about sex except for sex because sex is about power.
00:06:46
Speaker
There wasn't a great relationship, but I think that that saying holds merit. But back to the point, stating your needs or wants is obviously much easier said than done, but that's what we're here to practice.
Kindness vs. Accommodating
00:07:02
Speaker
And this is the thing that I think most of us don't realize. We confuse being kind with being accommodating.
00:07:12
Speaker
Another way that I've been framing it in my head recently is the idea of being nice versus being good, right? We think If I say no, I'm being mean.
00:07:24
Speaker
If I ask for what I need, I'm being selfish. If I set a limit, I'm going to hurt someone's feelings. And so we just don't. We say yes when we mean no.
00:07:35
Speaker
We hint instead of asking. We swallow our needs and hope the other person will just sort of magically intuit them. And when they don't, that's our excuse to become furious, right?
00:07:46
Speaker
We get mad at them for not reading our minds. We get mad at ourselves for not speaking up. We get mad at the situation for existing. And the reality is you can be kind and still say no.
00:07:59
Speaker
You can be kind and still ask for what you need. You can be kind and still have boundaries. The issue is that most of us were never really taught how to do both at the same time.
00:08:10
Speaker
We learned one extreme or the other. Either be nice at all costs, accommodate everyone, never make waves, which leads to people pleasing and resentment, or the overcorrection.
00:08:24
Speaker
You are so tired of accommodating that when you finally try to stand up for yourself, you come in extra hot, too defensive, too sharp. And now you have protected your self-respect, but you've completely burned the relationship down.
00:08:39
Speaker
And like I say, there is a middle ground. I am here to say, i don't know why I keep, I'm stuck on that, but there is a middle ground.
00:08:51
Speaker
It's good news. Have you heard the good news? That's the only good news. that Sorry, sorry. There's middle ground. And it starts with knowing what you actually want from the conversation before you have it.
00:09:07
Speaker
So here's the thing about communication that i don't think gets recognized often because it can feel a little icky if you sit with it in the wrong way. Every conversation has a goal or it should.
00:09:22
Speaker
The problem is most of the time we don't actually clarify what that goal is for us before we open our mouths. We just kind of start talking and hope it goes as well.
00:09:33
Speaker
And then it doesn't. Because we're trying to accomplish three different things at once and doing none of them effectively.
Conversational Goals in DBT
00:09:42
Speaker
DBT breaks conversational goals into three categories. And in any given conversation, you need to pick which one matters most to you.
00:09:53
Speaker
You can't prioritize all three equally. That's literally what prioritization means. You can't prioritize everything, right? No matter what your boss might tell you.
00:10:03
Speaker
You have to choose one. So the first goal, goal number one is objective. This is when you want a specific outcome. You want something to happen.
00:10:15
Speaker
A yes or a no, a behavior change, information, help with the task, just something concrete. An example might be you need a coworker to send you a file so you can finish your task, or you want your roommate to start doing their dishes, or you want someone to cover your shift, or you want clarity on whether you're still invited to something.
00:10:39
Speaker
The primary goal here is get the thing. The outcome matters more than anything else. Goal number two is the relationship. This is when the quality of the relationship matters most.
00:10:53
Speaker
You want the connection to stay intact or get stronger, even if the conversation is uncomfortable. Examples might be, you need to address something that hurt you, but you don't want to damage the friendship.
00:11:04
Speaker
You're giving someone difficult feedback and you want them to still feel valued. You're in conflict and you want to repair, not escalate. Maybe you're saying no to something, but you want the person to know that you still care about them.
00:11:19
Speaker
the The primary goal here is the relationship, maintaining trust and connection. Goal number three is self-respect. This is when protecting your dignity and values matters most.
00:11:34
Speaker
You need to honor your own boundaries, even if it makes things uncomfortable. Examples might be, you need to say no without guilt tripping yourself. You need to be honest instead of people pleasing.
00:11:44
Speaker
You need to stand up for yourself, even if it disappoints someone. Maybe you need to not betray your values just to keep the peace. The primary goal here is your integrity.
00:11:55
Speaker
You're not abandoning yourself. So here's why this matters. Most communication disasters happen because you're trying to do all three at once. You want them to say yes, the objective.
00:12:08
Speaker
You want them to still like you, the relationship. And you don't want to feel like a door rat, self-respect. And when you try to accomplish all three simultaneously,
00:12:18
Speaker
You end up hedging. You over-apologize, you under-ask, you confuse the other person, and you accomplish none of your goals. But if you pick one, if you say, in this conversation, my primary goal is self-respect, and I'm willing to let the objective or relationship goal take a back
Self-Respect in Communication
00:12:37
Speaker
seat.
00:12:38
Speaker
Now you have clarity. Now you know how to approach it. In my experience, these types of conversations often, when we're looking for you know examples or whatever, they tend to revolve around either intimate relationships or work. you know i've I've practiced in in both these settings, seen varying degrees of results, but those two sort of whoever you're imagining in your head as those two placeholders Those can often be scenarios that kind of feel like the final boss levels of practice. You know, they're really hard, high stakes. And if you don't have internalized instinctual practice with it, it's really, really hard to get right.
00:13:21
Speaker
Even after years of being aware this and trying to kind of circulate it in my mind, i still completely fall flat on my face. But an example of a relative success or a success that I, as I would frame it from work,
00:13:35
Speaker
One time I was trying to get across to a former employer that I was being overworked and needed support with the task load that I had been handed. And I knew before I even went into the conversation that this was going to need to be a self-respect prioritized conversation.
00:13:52
Speaker
I wasn't going into this thinking, I need them to say yes. I wasn't even thinking, I need to keep this relationship smooth. I was going in thinking, I need to say this.
00:14:03
Speaker
I need to advocate for myself, and I need to be able to look at myself afterward and know that I didn't abandon what I needed. That was the priority, self-respect. And knowing that changed how I prepared for it.
00:14:15
Speaker
I knew it was more than likely I was going to get a no, or I was going to get some sort of criticism to try and deflect or, you know, get told that everyone else manages. So just why can't I? Right.
00:14:28
Speaker
But by having the specific priority in mind, I was able to prepare myself and be far more rooted in my communication. I spoke more concisely. didn't dance around the point. I didn't apologize for bringing it up.
00:14:40
Speaker
I simply held onto the points that I needed to make. I made them and then I took whatever answer was coming. And it didn't work perfectly. i didn't get what I was asking for, but I had anticipated And in the end, it was the evidence I needed to begin to shift my attention towards taking care of myself instead of prioritizing this work.
00:15:02
Speaker
Of course, because of that evidence, I ended up on a medical leave. And then the day I was supposed to start back up with them, they fired me instead. But with all that in mind, I think maybe that means I ended up dodging a more long-term bullet. But maybe I'm going to say the conversation itself, ah that was a win.
00:15:24
Speaker
because I said what I needed to say. I didn't betray myself. I prioritized my self-respect over getting a yes or keeping things comfortable. And that clarity, knowing what mattered most before I opened my mouth, that's what made it possible.
00:15:42
Speaker
So once you know your goal, once you've clarified what matters most in this specific conversation, you can choose your approach. And if your goal is objective, if you want a specific outcome,
00:15:53
Speaker
And so of the three, if your goal is objective, if you want a specific outcome, the tool for that is Dear Man.
Introduction to Dear Man
00:16:04
Speaker
Dear Man is a sort of a structured script for assertive communication. It's a way to ask for something clearly, directly, and kindly. it's It's without being apologetic, without being aggressive, and without hoping the other person is just going to magically read your mind.
00:16:25
Speaker
So it's another acronym. Marsha loves these. ah We'll walk through them together. So D stands for describe the situation. um So Dear Man is a structured script for assertive communication.
00:16:40
Speaker
It's a way to ask for something clearly, directly, and kindly without being apologetic, without being aggressive, and without hoping that the other person is just going to magically read our minds. Yes, it's another acronym.
00:16:52
Speaker
DBT loves those acronyms. um
00:16:56
Speaker
And it's really important to remember these are guide points. This is not you have to talk like a robot going letter to letter. But let's walk through it. And and you'll kind of understand. You'll see how it it flows quite naturally.
Steps of Dear Man
00:17:10
Speaker
So d is for describe the situation. Stick to the facts. Observable, verifiable facts. No judgments, no interpretations, no loaded language.
00:17:21
Speaker
So bad description. You always ignore me. Good description, you didn't respond to my last three messages. Bad description, you're so inconsiderate.
00:17:35
Speaker
Good description, the file I asked for yesterday hasn't arrived yet. You're painting the picture of what's actually happening without adding the story your brain is telling about what it means.
00:17:49
Speaker
E is express how it impacts you. This is where you add the emotional or practical impact. You use I statements here, so you own your experience.
00:18:02
Speaker
I feel worried when I don't hear back. This makes it hard for me to finish my part of the project on time. I'm feeling frustrated because I've asked about this twice already.
00:18:14
Speaker
You're not blaming. You're just stating the impact. This is your experience. And, you know, they can't argue with your experience unless... They're a shithead. but a is assert your request.
00:18:29
Speaker
This is the part most of us tend to skip. We hint, we suggest, we hope they'll figure it out, but dear man requires that you ask directly. So bad request, it'd be nice if people were more considerate.
00:18:44
Speaker
Good request, could you let me know by Friday if you're available? Bad request, I wish you'd help out more. Good request, would you be willing to take out the trash on Tuesdays?
00:18:56
Speaker
Direct request, clear ask, no ambiguity.
Staying Mindful and Confident
00:19:03
Speaker
R is reinforce the benefit. Basically, explain what's in it for them or for the relationship.
00:19:11
Speaker
Why saying yes makes sense. You know, maybe it's that way we can both plan our schedules better. It'll make the project go smoother for the whole team. I think it would help us stay connected even when things are busy.
00:19:23
Speaker
You're not manipulating. You're just showing them that this request makes sense, that it's you know not arbitrary. The man section is sort of like a reminder of the state that you want to stay in.
00:19:39
Speaker
So M is to stay mindful. This is the part that will keep you from getting derailed. You know, when... So M is stay mindful.
00:19:53
Speaker
This is the part that keeps you from getting derailed. When the other person brings up a tangent or gets defensive or tries to flip the conversation onto you, you stay focused on your request.
00:20:04
Speaker
If they say, well, you never respond either, you don't take the bait. You don't get pulled into a debate about whether you're bad at texting. You say, maybe that's true. Right now, I'm asking if you can respond by Friday.
00:20:18
Speaker
You return to the request over and over. That's staying mindful. A is appear confident. This one's about your delivery. Even if you're terrified inside, even if you're terrified inside, you use a calm, steady voice.
00:20:35
Speaker
You make eye contact if that's your thing. You don't mumble. You don't over-apologize. And you don't shrink. Confidence is
00:20:46
Speaker
people would say confidence is partially performance. I would say confidence is mostly performance. You act like you believe you deserve to ask because you do. And on the other side, people can't read your mind.
00:21:00
Speaker
So if you look confident, they're going to be whoa, doggie, watch out. ed is negotiate. about being willing to meet halfway if the exact request doesn't work for them.
00:21:12
Speaker
So it's the idea of, you know, if Friday doesn't work, would Monday be better? If you can't do the whole thing, could you help with half? But, and this is really important, you are not negotiating away the entire request.
00:21:26
Speaker
You are allowing yourself to be flexible on the details, but not on the core need. So that's Dear Man. Describe the facts, express the impact, assert your request, reinforce the benefits, stay mindful and focused, appear confident, negotiate on details.
00:21:47
Speaker
Let me give you a full example so you can kind of hear what it sounds like as a whole script. So scenario is you need a coworker to send you a file so you can finish your part of a project. So it sounds something like, hey, I noticed the deadline for the report was yesterday and i haven't received the data file yet.
00:22:04
Speaker
Describe it. This makes it hard for me to finish my section on time. Express. Could you send it to me by of day today? Assert. That way I can still get my part done without delaying the whole project.
00:22:18
Speaker
Reinforce. I know you're busy. If today doesn't work, could you let me know when I can expect it? Negotiate. And that's it. Clear, direct, kind, no apologies, no aggression, just a straightforward request.
Using Dear Man in Relationships
00:22:34
Speaker
Dear Man, in a lot of ways, has kind of become my go-to in relationships. But it's important to keep mind, it can't be used super mechanically. Like, you can't just pull out the acronym in the middle of a conversation or but but robotically march through D-E-A-R-M-A-N, right? That would be really weird.
00:22:52
Speaker
And it's just not kind of how people should be talking to each other. You know, I think it's kind of dangerous in a lot of ways to be over reliant on therapy speak, but that is a different kind of word.
00:23:04
Speaker
It helps as a general framing and it, it, It's serving to keep the the the stakes lower while still aiming to repair and communicate clearly.
00:23:14
Speaker
I find it especially helpful in already lower stakes situations. If there's been a rupture or something that's kind of lightly gotten to me, I'll try to talk it out using a sort of internalized deer man structure.
00:23:25
Speaker
I'll describe what happened, I'll express how it landed for me, I'll assert what I need or what I'm asking for and stay focused on that instead of getting pulled into tangents. And that hasn't come naturally. It's often come with a lot of clumsiness and a lot of miscommunication, inadvertent tension after because, you know, i said something in a way that that kind of landed wrong or I was too direct when I should have been a little gentler or or i held too rigidly to the structure when I could have just been a little bit more human.
00:23:57
Speaker
Because it doesn't feel natural or comfortable at first to speak this directly, to just say what you need instead of hinting or hoping the other person will figure it out.
00:24:11
Speaker
But more often than not, this has led to, at the very least, continued conversation. And that's really the thing, is that it's not always with the aim of getting a yes or no.
00:24:24
Speaker
Sometimes the goal is just to kind of like get my thoughts across in a clear way. to to sort of like make sure that the other person actually knows what I'm feeling or what I need instead of me assuming that they should already know.
00:24:40
Speaker
And while you can never really do any of this perfectly, there's always gonna be some gap between what you mean and what the other person hears. The practice is the point.
00:24:52
Speaker
You know process over product, as my old applied theater prof used to say, right? You're building the muscle. And the muscle gets stronger the more you use it, even when it's clumsy, actually, especially when it's clumsy.
Effectiveness of Dear Man
00:25:06
Speaker
And I want to be really clear as well that dear man doesn't guarantee a yes. You know, the other person can still say no.
00:25:17
Speaker
They can still get defensive. They can still be an asshole. Dear man is not a magic spell. What it gives you is is clarity. you know You asked clearly.
00:25:31
Speaker
You stated your need. You didn't hint or hope or people please your way through it. You showed up and you asked. And that is all that you can control. Their response is on them.
00:25:43
Speaker
But at least you didn't betray yourself by not asking. All right, quick practice.
Practicing Dear Man
00:25:53
Speaker
Think of one thing you need to ask for, or one boundary you need to set in the next week.
00:26:02
Speaker
Got it? Now walk through the Dear Man structure in your head. So describe. What are the facts of the situation? No judgment, just what is observable.
00:26:16
Speaker
Express. What's the impact on you? How does this situation affect you practically or emotionally? Assert. What's your actual request?
00:26:29
Speaker
State it clearly. Don't hint. Reinforce. What's the benefit of them saying yes? Why does this make sense? You don't have to script the whole thing word for word.
00:26:42
Speaker
Just get clear on those four core pieces. The rest, the man side, mindful, confidence, negotiating, that's going to happen in the moment. But if you know what you're asking for and why, you're basically already way ahead of where most of us are starting.
00:27:01
Speaker
A little reflection for you. One question to sit with this week. What is one conversation you have been avoiding because you're not sure how to ask what you need? What's one conversation you have been avoiding because you're not sure how to ask for what you need?
00:27:18
Speaker
Not all of them, just one. And what would it look like to use dear man in that conversation? You don't have to do it this week. Just notice what comes up when you think about it.
00:27:31
Speaker
So that's interpersonal effectiveness part one. Know your goal before you open your mouth. Objective, relationship, self-respect. Pick one. can't do all three equally.
00:27:42
Speaker
if your goal is objective, if you need a specific outcome, use Dear Man. Describe, express, assert, reinforce, stay mindful, appear confident, negotiate.
00:27:54
Speaker
It's awkward, it's uncomfortable, and it works way more often than hinting or hoping does.
00:28:03
Speaker
Next episode, we're going to be covering Give and Fast. The skills for when your primary goal isn't getting a yes, it's maintaining the relationship or protecting your self-respect.
00:28:13
Speaker
Because not every conversation is about the outcome.
Teaser for Next Episode
00:28:16
Speaker
Sometimes it's about staying connected even when things are hard. And sometimes it's about not betraying yourself just to keep the peace. But that's next time.
00:28:26
Speaker
For now, if you enjoyed the episode or enjoying the DBT series as a whole, be please be sure to give me a five-star review wherever you listen. And also please send me any questions, any comments, stories about your experience with this season. I would love to hear from you. I'd love to hear how these episodes have been landing.
Listener Feedback Request
00:28:45
Speaker
Email me friendlesspod at gmail.com.
00:28:47
Speaker
Hit me up on social media at friendlesspod. Please do let me know. i sometimes feel like I know I fall into this and and I wonder if others do as well.
00:28:58
Speaker
Sometimes I'll hear someone on a show that I listen to a podcast, YouTube, whatever it might be, and they'll put in a call for questions or comments. And and I'll often i'll think, oh, well, I'm sure somebody else has sent something, so I don't need to, right? And I just, I want to say, if you are hearing this, if you have a question, if you have a comment, you directly, whoever you are, I would really like to hear from you.
00:29:17
Speaker
Comment it on one of the posts about this episode, or just email me directly, direct message me, whatever it is. I want to hear from you. Other than that, that's to be it for me this week. So let's wrap things up here.
00:29:29
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. And I really do hope to catch back here next week. But hey, as always, I'm not going to worry about that right now. And neither of you, because that is then and this is now.
00:29:43
Speaker
So for now, I will just say I love you and I wish you well. Fun and safety, sweet peas.