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Sian Horn - Surviving & Thriving Part 1
336 Plays1 year ago
In this week’s episode of The Trauma and Healing Podcast, I’m thrilled to share with you the first part of my conversation with Sian Horn, a podcaster, pilates instructor, business consultant and champion of women and small business. Sian has an amazing story of overcoming domestic abuse, surviving a gun threat, dealing with 7 miscarriages and living intentionally. She also talks about her podcasts, The Club and sianhorn.com, where she helps you grow and thrive in your business, plus your health and wellness. This episode is full of inspiration and empowerment, and you don’t want to miss it!
Remember to like and follow The Trauma and Healing Podcast, helping us to share these essential discussions. Enjoy the episode!
You can learn more about Sian and her work through her social media platforms and website:
- Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sian_horn
- Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sian.horn
- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sian-horn-86270171
- Website - https://sianhorn.com
You can also listen to her podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or her website.
- Straight-Talking with Sian Horn
- BeBelle Podcast
- Brainstorm in a Teacup
If you or someone you know is affected by domestic abuse, miscarriage or gun violence, please know that you are not alone and there is help available. Here are some helplines that you can contact for support:
- For domestic abuse: National Domestic Abuse Helpline (UK) - 0808 2000 247 or online chat; National Domestic Violence Hotline (US) - 1-800-799-7233 or online chat; Women’s Aid (Ireland) - 1800 341 900 or online chat
- For miscarriage: Miscarriage Association (UK) - 01924 200799 or info@miscarriageassociation.org.uk; American Pregnancy Association (US) - 1-800-672-2296; Miscarriage Support Services (Ireland) - 01 8735702 or info@miscarriage.ie
- For gun violence: Amnesty International (global) - online resources; APA (US) - online resources; ATF (US) - 1-800-ATF-GUNS or 1-800-283-4867; American Counseling Association (US) - online resources
As always, if you enjoyed the episode, please remember to like and follow to help promote these important discussions.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Trauma and Healing podcast, where I total grags for the stories of people who are healers and those who have overcome trauma and found healing in their lives. Today, I have a very special episode for you. I am honored to have Shan Horn as my guest, and let me tell you, she has an amazing story to share. But before we do, I have to tell you something. There was so much to get through in Shan's story, in Shan's life, that we had to turn this episode into a two-part. That's right. This is only the first half of our conversation.
00:00:29
Speaker
The second half will be released tomorrow and trust me, you don't want to miss it. It's full of twists, turns, surprises and revelations. Most importantly, hope and inspiration. So make sure you subscribe to the Trauma Healing Podcast so you won't miss the second part of Shan's story.
Shan's Early Life and Family Dynamics
00:00:46
Speaker
Now let me introduce you to Shan Horn. Shan is an ex-publican, she's a podcaster, Pilates Fanatic Instructor, business consultant and Ireland's champion of women in small business.
00:00:58
Speaker
She's also a survivor of domestic violence, miscarriage and gun violence, and has continued to push for purpose in her life on how she can help others. In this episode, we'll hear about Shan's journey of trauma and healing and how she coped with her challenges, and how she is now helping others to do the same through business.
00:01:15
Speaker
Before we begin, I want to put a trigger warning on this episode, as we will be discussing some really hard topics. They may be upsetting and triggering for some listeners. And if you need support, please reach out to somebody you trust or contact to helpline. I will include a few links which you can find in the show notes. Please do stop listening if you need to. Your self-care is what matters. Mind yourself today. And now, without further ado, let's dive into the podcast with Shanghwa. Enjoy.
00:01:45
Speaker
How are you doing? I'm good and thank you so much. Let's jump straight into it. So if you can give us an overview of your life and I do want to start at the beginning. So if you want to tell me about your family, but also I want you to tell me how you ended up milk monitor at two and a half years of age. So I suppose I'm the second child and there's big gaps in my family. So me and my old sister, just two and a half years between us and
00:02:15
Speaker
Basically, we were like twins, I suppose. So I was very grown up from a very young age, and my mum always tells the story. And actually, I'm just back from France, and we were having arguments about my timeline. And I was like, hang on a minute now, guys, I've just lost two years here, because I rely on them. I don't remember an awful lot.
00:02:36
Speaker
I remember all the important things. Whereas my sister, because she was a couple of years older than me, she remembers everything and she kind of puts it together for me quite often. So my mum was actually the school secretary. My dad was working away when I was very, very small.
00:02:53
Speaker
and he had been an architect and then he'd become bankrupt and then he'd gone on the lorries so he was driving around Europe at the time and my mum would go to school and I would be left at home and I would just kick up such a stink and get so upset. Because the older siblings were going to school. My mum was the school secretary so as far as I was concerned they were both going having the crack.
00:03:19
Speaker
So I remember my mum saying that the head mistress said to her, I would have been around two, I suppose, and a half when the school holidays split up and she said to my mum, I'll just bring her in September. We won't tell anybody. No one will know. I was always quite a big child and tall. No one will know. So just bring her. It'd be fine. So she did. And
00:03:43
Speaker
I used to arrive with her, and I used to go in and set up everybody's desk, so I'd lay out all the colouring stuff, I'd lay out the pens and the paper, and I would be in charge of the milk. So if people weren't behaved, they wouldn't be getting the milk, because I always think of that black and white picture of
00:04:06
Speaker
what we call the bossy girl, but actually that girl with strength. And I was always an organizer and always very confident even at that age. And I do remember, and I think I said to you, my Nana was blind. Yeah. And she would, it was all, my mom would say, she wouldn't trust any of us, Sharm, to walk her down the stairs. She'd only let you walk her down the stairs. And yeah, and I just, I always felt like I was leading.
Growing Up in a Pub and Early Independence
00:04:35
Speaker
Did you know that? Like, is that a laser thing? Or did you know that as a kid going, this is what I'm here to do?
00:04:44
Speaker
I can't. I think as a young kid, so I was always quite a lot, I was always a big kid. Let's be honest, I was the fat girl of school, do you know what I mean? So some girls would be mean and things, but I always had loads of friends. So I suppose when you're like five, six, seven, it's a popularity thing, isn't it? You feel confident because people like you and you can make people entertain people and direct people and
00:05:10
Speaker
comfort people and nurture people and kids do that from a very young age. I see my nieces now and one of them's bold like and the other one is a real nurturer. You can see their characteristics now, you know, it's not something that grows, it's in you. And so I think as a younger child, I kind of thought of it as sort of
00:05:35
Speaker
being the fun one and, and, and keeping people happy and entertained, et cetera. And obviously I grew up in a pub. So when I would leave school, I'd then go home and entertain everybody in the pub. Okay. And what age was this then? So this was after your dad had done the Lawrence.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah. So we moved basically at two and a half, I was sort of in school. And then when I was five, we moved to London. And I initially, my mum took my sister and I stayed with my grandparents just till they got settled. And we moved to a pub called the Millet Arms. I'll never forget. So the woman that ran it, they'd never let children.
00:06:16
Speaker
in the pub. And so we weren't allowed to be seen. So my mum and dad were training. And so we lived in a room with my mum and dad. So there was one bed, a sofa and two bunk beds. And my mum would come up on her break and share her dinner with one of us. And then my dad would come up on his break and share the dinner with the other one. And we were there, I suppose we were there for about eight months while my parents were training. And I do remember this vividly. I remember because
00:06:44
Speaker
Mrs M was her name and I was really scared of her. She was like Trunch Bowl out of Matilda. Yeah, how ever beautiful actually. She was stunning, a really classy lady. But I remember one night I thought my sister was dying because she'd been to the toilet and there was foam in the toilet, you know, so I ventured down these stairs.
00:07:05
Speaker
And it was just like something out of a film because I was petrified and I got caught by Mrs. M and I was like, you must get my mum, my sister's dying. And she, she cleaned the toilet. It was bleach, like, but I just remember the crazy overwhelming thought that my sister was dying. But then care and courage in it. Yeah, completely overdrive. But then we moved to a really awful pub actually. And it was funny, we were talking about this recently on holiday and
00:07:34
Speaker
I think that kind of at that point, so I would have been about six moving there and it was just a nasty pub and it was just full of very nasty people. And we would see kids being left in cars outside and I could hear my parents being threatened at times. What was that like for you as a kid? It wasn't nice. I was very scared in that pub. And I think like I would have had a lot of nightmares in that pub.
00:08:03
Speaker
but fortunately we weren't there too long. And then we moved to Richmond upon Thames. I mean, it doesn't, the change there was unbelievable. And it was so funny, I remember actually.
00:08:15
Speaker
I did the same later in life when I ran pubs. I remember when we first was in, my dad was very suspicious of people and et cetera, until he kind of settled and realized this was a beautiful place and we were going to have a really nice life. Do you remember that as well? Do you remember having to take a minute to go, okay, is this just another place like the last place? Yeah, because you just never know. Obviously, you'd have to be really cautious, but we'd have a short stint in a
00:08:41
Speaker
Teddington Lock with a lovely family. But this was like their first pub. And we all got involved, you know, straight away, I would have been seven, moving to the Marlborough on Richmond Hill, stunning place to grow up. But we worked, we worked from the day that- So you worked in the pub as well? Yeah, always. We'd always be collecting glasses or cleaning plates or I loved cooking. So I was always watching the cooking Saturdays and Sundays, we'd be barbecuing. Yeah, it was a real family run business.
00:09:10
Speaker
Yeah. And great fun, like I have such fond memories of that pub. What are lessons to learn? Oh yeah, no, amazing. And people spoke to us, a lot of the people there didn't have kids initially. So speak up, people, you know, actually I've got a scar on my forehead from one of the regulars saying, can we borrow Sharn to serve drinks on Saturday? It's probably about nine. And I tripped and kept my head open.
00:09:39
Speaker
And they obviously were mortified because they had to return me to the
Balancing Education, Work, and Career Growth
00:09:43
Speaker
house. But we were very well looked after. I mean, I'm still very friendly with some of the people that were regulars in that pub. I can still walk in that pub and someone will recognize me. And I left there when I was 13. And I could still walk in there today and some would go, you're Max and Dave's daughter. God, you haven't changed. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's a very sense of community then.
00:10:05
Speaker
Yes, super. My dad was really into community. My dad taught me everything about that. So my dad was very aware. He was a genius before his time and he just met the wrong people. But me and my sister run Sunday school because he was very aware that if all the kids loved us, then they would make all their parents come to us for lunch after church.
00:10:31
Speaker
That's like enterprising 101. That's what you're learning as a young kid then. Listen, we would be in the paper all the time. Okay. He's never stressed up like monkeys. He was hilarious. But he was a PR and marketing genius. Lots of the things I do now, I often think he'd love that. He'd love that.
00:10:55
Speaker
So it sounds like you've learned, like I mean, you've before the age of 10, a wealth of knowledge on people, business, and just your own sense of self in that as well.
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I learned as well that I wanted to be independent. I suppose I was about seven or eight when I got a job next door in the greengrocers because I wanted to work. I loved it, but I didn't always want to work for my mum and dad. What did you love about it? Do you know what? I love maths. I love maths, so the greengrocers was like,
00:11:35
Speaker
I still have, I just, I loved working in there. It was amazing. And this is like that. Back in the time when there was no calculators and no anything you had to do with yourself. You have to be like way in calculating way. And that's, that's kind of the same as like behind a bar. I mean, I watch people behind bars now going, Oh God, because
00:11:55
Speaker
You know, it's actually, I think people are natural at doing something like that. I don't think you can learn it. It's easier now because of you just tap that and tap this. But back in the day, it wasn't really something you could learn because you'd have to be very, very aware of people and acknowledge people because
00:12:15
Speaker
And it was the same in the green grosses know that you get would acknowledge the next person that you were about to serve so that that's their waiting time half, then you'd acknowledge the third one, so that they knew that you were going to the second one so that their wait time was halved.
00:12:31
Speaker
We're amazing at understanding people because you can read people. That's exactly what you're doing. You read people, you read a room, you read and it sounds like this was the schooling from quite young. Was that intentional or was that just you were in the environment you had to?
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was definitely the environment. You know, like after a few scoops, people would be telling us their life stories. Me and my sister would be like, oh, good God, what are we going to be listening to this evening? Do you know what I mean? And then, but there was also time to be kids. Do you know what I mean? Like I always say,
00:13:04
Speaker
At that time, it was fantastic because my parents were employed. They were employed publicans. They were managers for a big corporate. And so we had amazing summers. We had holidays. Whereas, and my two sisters, my two younger sisters, the first two were born in Richmond. But then my parents went to work for themselves. And I think they missed out on a lot of the good stuff we had because when you work for yourself, it's not as easy.
00:13:33
Speaker
That's a 24 seven job done. Yeah. Yeah. They had a very different life to us, my three, my three younger sisters, and they had a very different time. Okay. What do they take? Like when you tell your story, like today, do they go, is it stark for them? Do they hear us that going, you got so much out of that because of the opportunities? Absolutely. But we all, you know, we, we all have the same mom and dad. We all have the same morals, the same upbringing.
00:14:03
Speaker
We have the same beliefs. You know, I never lived with my two younger sisters, really. Claire moved to Wales when I was three. I was 14, 15. And so I never lived with the two younger ones. And when the second youngest came to live with me in Ireland in her twenties, I remember ringing my mum going, what did you do with this one? She doesn't know what she's...
00:14:26
Speaker
She can't cook, she can't. And my mum was like, I'm so sorry, it's just, we definitely bred you to leave and we definitely bred the youngest to stay. And I get it. It's the same, it was talking recently, Gabo and Maté, about siblings growing up in the same house, having the same parents, maybe, and having completely different experiences. And it sounds like from your youngest sibling to you, it's completely different.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah, very different, but different countries as well, so. Yeah, yeah. But they had a great time too, and they had my parents always there for them. So yeah, we were very lucky, all of us.
00:15:08
Speaker
Okay, so then I'm gonna jump ahead a little bit and I think, what age was it when you ended up living on your own in your parents' apartment? My parents started to move to Wales as I was doing my O-levels or GCSEs, so I would have been 16-ish. So they'd started to move just before my exams and I lived in the house then, sort of by myself. They'd be back in four throughout my exams and then I stayed up there.
00:15:38
Speaker
I did try to move to Wales. I didn't like it. All my friends were in London, so I was straight back there. And what actually happened was I made the decision to go to college to do my A levels. And I was doing creative. I was a big dancer back in the day. So I was doing dance and theatre studies and photography and all those creatives. But I couldn't manage college because
00:16:04
Speaker
No one told me what, no one was strict with me. And so I just didn't, I was like, this is silly. So I had to work anyway, obviously to get money. And I ended up working more than I was at college. So then I was like, I'll have to leave college. And I thought, maybe I need to go to Wales. And I went down and actually I was working in jigsaw women's clothes. They were quite a new store at the time.
00:16:29
Speaker
And I obviously I was 16, so I left and then they rang me and said, look, we need an assistant manager and we think you'd be perfect. So I was like, well, at this age, I can't turn that down. And that age was 16 or 17, was it? Yeah. Yeah. That is like quite a, that says a lot about a person to have that offer that somebody would go, yes, I know who that is for the job. Well, then they gave me a shop at 17.
00:16:56
Speaker
Okay. What was that? Talk to us about that. So they didn't... I don't think they... Well, they definitely didn't know my age because I never acted my age. So, yeah, I was assistant manager in Richmond for nearly a year, I'd say, and then they offered me Hampstead, which was on North London. How did that feel when that offer came through? Was that, yes, I've been waiting for this? Or was that, oh, my God, what the hell is happening?
00:17:24
Speaker
I was just like, great, bit more money. I'll go. Not thinking it through at all, to be honest. And I think, I mean, I lived in Surberton at the time, so I'd have to get two trains and a train and two tubes to work, which used to take two hours to get to work and two hours to get home. I was 17. I'd only ever worked for one real manager, Jigsaw, and bless his heart, he was lovely outside work, but he was a rubbish manager.
00:17:53
Speaker
So I actually only knew how to work as a rubbish manager because I also grew up in that age where when your boss told you to do something, you didn't question it, you just did it. And so I thought people would just do that. I just asked them and they would just do it. And... So you learned by example in that sense? Absolutely. What was the example that was set for you there?
00:18:15
Speaker
just not a good one, to be honest. But at the same time, I suppose I was 17, so I thought the only way to get people to be motivated and have the crack was to actually just to have fun with them.
00:18:28
Speaker
But fun wasn't always professional. But at 17, is it gonna be? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you don't know the boundaries of that stage, do you know? No. But I was fortunate again there, though, that everybody at head office loved me. And I think everybody at head office realised how young I was. Do you know what I mean? So they were like, this was crazy. Because I remember we'd go out for drinks.
00:18:48
Speaker
after work and I'd be like, oh, I'll get ID'd. And they're like, what are you talking about? And I'd be like, because I've been running around the pubs for years. And I'm like, well, I am 17. And they'd be like, oh my God. And as a manager, what age are you managing here? Oh, I was managing people up to their 30s.
00:19:12
Speaker
That sense of self there to go into a room and go, I can do this. I can definitely give it a go. I think that's phenomenal to have at that age. When it came to selling and it came to stock takes and it came to the money, I was amazing. Yeah.
00:19:28
Speaker
You knew it. Oh, I could sell eyes to Eskimos. I'm a great salesperson. I know what people's needs are. I mean, one thing I've never done is lie to someone when I've sold them. So I would get in trouble sometimes. Someone would come in and say, Sean, I'm looking for this. And I'd go, do you know what? We haven't got it. But I saw it in Hobbs yesterday. So go to Hobbs, go and buy it. And my boss would say, I heard you say that. And I'd say, yes, because she was looking for something specific and we didn't have it. And I know it's in there.
00:19:57
Speaker
And you'd be like, but you lost a sustain. I said, no, I didn't. I will gain us so much sales from that. Yeah. And, and it's the truth. And I've sold things all my life without realizing that I was a good salesperson. I didn't realize I was a good salesperson until my forties. Cause someone told me. Yeah. There's a sense of honor in that. Yeah. So, so I was always top salesperson. Didn't matter where I worked, always top salesperson because I always sent them away when I needed to.
00:20:27
Speaker
I think that's key. Yeah, the thing again that strikes me is that I talk to teenagers, young adults and especially women and they struggle with that self-confidence. They struggle that even though I remember being told and I'm sure this is something that will resonate with you but I remember being told I was thinking of going for a job and I didn't have maybe one or two things on it
00:20:52
Speaker
I was saying this, I don't know, you know, I don't have that. And they're like, what are you doing? Their partner had applied for a job and like half of it they didn't know. But they said, but they will learn and they'll make it up and they'll say whatever they need to say in the interview. Cause that's how you should be going around life. I was like, what? Excuse me. You don't have to have everything. But that was what resonated even with young people today, even though they know they're capable, they don't have the confidence even to say it that they're capable. And I think that's,
00:21:20
Speaker
Maybe a woman being knocked down so many times. You didn't seem to have that. And I'm wondering what shaped that for you. Well, possibly it was before email.
00:21:35
Speaker
Because I'll be honest with you, but I will still do that. I will still look at an application and go, oh God, no, that's not for me. Because that's normal. That's normal for actually anybody. It's not normal for men because they have different brains. But it is normal to go, oh my good enough. It is normal to have imposter syndrome. It is normal. Where the key is, is to understand that it is imposter syndrome and tell it to go away. And that's the problem. People don't catch it in time.
00:22:04
Speaker
However, I am not great with the written word and I lack confidence in it hugely.
00:22:10
Speaker
If I want to borrow money from a bank, I have never filled out a form. I always ask to see the manager because I can close the deal. However, when I fill out an application, I really struggle. I really struggle and I still struggle to this day. So, but I'll always ask for feedback and I think that's really important. If I don't get something that I want, then I will always go back and say, look, I don't want to fail next time. Can you give me the feedback? Where did I go wrong?
00:22:37
Speaker
So it's an opportunity for you. Always an opportunity. You're always going to be learning. Like, I'm 52. I'm still learning. No one knows everything. And the landscape changes dramatically all the time. We know that. We certainly know it now over the last few years. So you'll always learn from it. So yeah, I was definitely confident, but I think that confidence came from
00:23:01
Speaker
You know, I had a lot of friends. We all looked out for each other. I mean, when I was a rubbish manager at 17, when I was going to get the sack, I got so many calls before the woman could get to me. Remember, it took two hours. So head office would ring me going, Sean, write your resignation now. Go and post it in a post box.
00:23:21
Speaker
she can't sack you if you've resigned and that was so lovely because that could have affected my next job and it didn't and a few years later i bumped into the lovely lady that sacked me and went good god like and she we were had great crack about it because i was a child
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's, it's quite at that age, 17, it's quite, it's quite a life already lived.
Surviving and Escaping an Abusive Relationship
00:23:45
Speaker
What? I suppose that there's a lot of living in that. There's a lot of learning in that. What happens later in life? Where? So I go, I, I leave obviously Jigsaw, I go and I'm turning 18 and I get a license to run a pub at 18.
00:24:05
Speaker
Well, actually prior to that, I've walked in and become a chef in my head because I used to help my mum do the cooking. Crap at that as well, by the way. I actually got the sack from that on my 18th birthday after cooking moors marinaire that had shells and God knows what in it. However, I'm an amazing chef now. So again, we learn, we learn, but yeah, my local pub that I used to drink in all the time, they were like, come and work with us. And I remember like,
00:24:33
Speaker
filling in the application. He was like, Sean, you could have, you could have got a shutdown for like two years. Cause I just, I was just 18 and I'd been drinking in there for some time. I forgot that sounds like I was some sort of drinker, but I mean, like after work or whatever, I wasn't on the juice, but so yeah, I went, I became
00:24:53
Speaker
I got licensee. Is that normal? Sorry, I know nothing about the word, but is that at 18 years of age to be a licensee? No. That's quite a lot of responsibility.
00:25:05
Speaker
Yes, but I was with my, so I'd met my boyfriend in the pub. He was 23. I was 18. However, it was the eighties. I dressed like Pat Butcher, so I did look halfway. And also, I was a size 20. Like, and there wasn't clothes those days for a size 20. You did, did end up dressing a little bit older. Do you know what I mean? I probably dressed younger now than I did then. But yeah, it was the eighties. Big earrings were in. We were all over it.
00:25:35
Speaker
So we joined, me and David got together and we, so when in the UK, your managers, you don't own the pubs unless you're leased, but they're far and few between. Most of the pubs are owned by the breweries. So before you get your first pub, you do what they call the relief circuit. And so you'll go and do people's holidays for two weeks here, two weeks there, two weeks there. And so we, we traveled all around the country for a good few months.
00:26:03
Speaker
did some beautiful perps. I really learnt to cook during that time because a lot of the perps were big food houses and we did really, really well. And then our first pub, I suppose, oh, well, we actually, I'll tell you this story. So it was my birthday and I said, I don't want to work tonight. And we were in a place called Lewisham and at the time Lewisham was quite rough. Rough to the point of my other half, he had gone to the next pub, which was an elephant and castle.
00:26:31
Speaker
And I said to him, I'm going to ring you when I'm locking up because I'm, I'm scared again. I have all these fears. So I rang him from the downstairs phone. This is the old style phone. I said, okay, hold on. Put the receiver down, ran upstairs, locked up and then grabbed the phone upstairs. So he knew that I was alive. I just wanted to, I was always very conscious of someone knowing that I was. That's a lot of stress.
00:26:57
Speaker
Well, I used to do that when my parents, when I first, at 16, like when I first was living by myself, I would always be the first one to leave the pub. And people would say, why are you leaving? Because you could be out till whatever time you like. And I go, if I don't go home now, I'll be going home in the rush. And if I don't get home, no one's going to know anyway. Like I could be days before. So I was always conscious. I just wanted to be home.
00:27:24
Speaker
So that's always a thing with me, I suppose. How does stress, so that's one thing from your life story so far, stress hasn't really entered into it. It's kind of like, okay, I'll throw myself in, I'll do whatever I have to do, but stress is obviously a part of that. So how do you deal with that so young? It's the same feeling as excitement. So that's what it is. So it's just a switch in your brain. It's like, that's exciting. Just nervous energy.
00:27:55
Speaker
I'm ridiculous. I scream and jump for the smallest and minuses of things. I'm scared of lots of things in my life. However, the things that I'm not scared of outweigh them.
00:28:09
Speaker
So there's no negative loop that goes in your head, you know? So, so one of the things that I would often tell people is that the body will give you signals. The brain will interpret it and the brain will go, I have a pain in my arm. Oh God, I'm having a heart attack. You know? Yes. The stress, the anxiety that comes into my chest is going, Oh my God, something terrible is about to happen. And it goes down this track. It tells the story of the bad thing that's going to happen. You struck me as somebody who's able to sort
00:28:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's being prepared though. Like, if you know that something stresses you out, I mean, look, I'm at that age now, if something stresses me out, I just don't do it. But that takes time to learn what those stresses are. You know, I will always try. I mean, I'm so fearful of heights. I don't know where it comes from, but I'll always try. So I could get half the way up a mountain and then I'll lose the feeling in my legs and start crying, but I'll give it a go.
00:29:06
Speaker
And what does it feel like? So just, sorry, we will go back to the poll, but like, what does that feel like for you up until that point? What are you, is it ignoring it? Is it pushing it down until I can't ignore it anymore? Yeah, I think it's like, let's see if I can get over it. Like I did a sort of, not a cliff cliff walk during COVID, but good for me. And I remember coming home and going, right, we need to go back there tomorrow.
00:29:34
Speaker
And then we need to go back there a couple of days later. I need to keep doing it so that it becomes habit. So I know. Yes. Because otherwise I think I just had a good day and I was just not scared that day. Okay. So you know how you can rewrite the story and that is by going back, by building up. Yeah. If I can manage it, then let's do it again.
00:29:55
Speaker
and then we just keep doing it and then it's habit then and now my brain and my mind memory and my muscle memory and everything says but you've done it.
00:30:05
Speaker
You didn't know this, obviously, because what you're talking about is neuroplasticity. You're talking about, as you know, the habits, but also telling the body sort of like exposure therapy. And obviously that's the words you put on it today. But you obviously didn't know that at the time, but it was obviously an experience that you trusted and trusted in yourself to go, I'll keep going to my edge and then I'll stop.
00:30:29
Speaker
Yeah, just go as far as you feel comfortable. Don't put yourself in a position where it's going to hurt or upset you, but just see how far you can go. Obviously, people can't see your face as you're saying that. This seems the most normal thing to you, and I don't think you grasp how empowering it is to have that, and there's people listening going, that's what I want, that's what I want to do, that's how do I do that?
00:30:59
Speaker
Wow, I didn't even know that. Saying that, I heard of shower curtains. You what? I'm scared of shower curtains. If a shower curtain touches me, I hyperventilate. Sorry, I shouldn't laugh. What would you explain that to me a little bit? I don't know. I don't know where it comes from. But however, I have met two people in my life that have the same fear. Is it a touch thing? Oh, if it touched me, I could cry. Yeah. Wow. So there's a body reaction.
00:31:28
Speaker
Oh, I'm reacting even thinking about it. Okay. I mean, I'm scared of a lot of things. We joke about it. So I'm scared of heights, I'm scared of the sea, I'm scared of the wind, elements basically. I'm scared of waxboard models, I'm scared of pigeons, potentially any bird in the world actually, but definitely pigeons.
00:31:52
Speaker
Waxworks as a mod. Yeah. Yeah. Petrified of time. Yeah. You want a fun day out, take me to a waxwork model later. That's like a horror, a horror, a house of horrors for you now.
00:32:08
Speaker
huge I mean for a job that I had once I had to go into the city jail city in Cork City and I saw I don't like old places either they scare me so I saw this like archway and then you had to go in well I couldn't go through the archway I was really scared so I was like the archway is really wide so if I close my eyes I reckon I could be through it in four breaths
00:32:32
Speaker
So I closed my eyes, got to the other side, thought, brilliant. I'm in now. I'm going to go to this meeting and be very professional. And as I walked up to the door, all I could see was the waxwork. So I was just outside going, hello, hello. And she was like, come in. And I said, I'm so sorry, but I really can't. And the guy I had to meet had to come out and lead me with my eyes closed into his office. I just could not, I could not, petrified.
00:32:59
Speaker
And then sat there for the whole meeting, just working out how I was going to get out of the place. Oh God, it sounds, that sounds tough. Yeah. For her pledge, even there, you were vulnerable in that moment and you allowed yourself to show that vulnerability. Yeah, that's never bothered me. My mum and dad always showed their vulnerability and I think that's a really good lesson. That's never bothered me my whole life to show that. I think if you don't, yeah, I wouldn't keep things in.
00:33:29
Speaker
There's courage in that. There's strength in that, I suppose. Because a lot of people, there's a sense of if I show this, I'll be judged, I'll be shunned, I'll be whatever the story again is being told. But that for you is, I can break through this.
00:33:46
Speaker
Absolutely. And to be honest, if one of my nieces said to me, Sean, I'm petrified of a shower curtain. I say, don't be so silly. I'll come with you and I'll let the shower curtain touch me just to get them through it because I hate to pass that on. So yeah, there are times that you just have to breathe through it. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to jump back a little bit and thanks. Thanks for sharing that. So I am going to jump back. So the first pub you have your licensee and you're doing the relief work with your ex partner at the time. Yes.
00:34:17
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. So it was a really great time, actually. So that night that I left Lewisham, the next day I had to go to the Elephant Castle. It was my birthday. And I said, I'm not going to work. So I sat at the bar and I was having a drink with one of the regulars. And he said to me, I was buying him a drink. He was buying me a drink.
00:34:37
Speaker
I looked to the end of the bar, I saw my boyfriend being headbutted by someone. I could smell joke in the place and I was like, what's going on here? Like what on earth have we walked into? And he said, Sean, just keep your mouth shut. The last bloke has just left with the fractured skull.
00:34:51
Speaker
And that was the first time I thought, good God, where have they left us? And the place was like Fort Knox. Everything was locked up. There was bars on the windows and all I kept thinking was, okay, I feel safe. However, if someone sets light downstairs, we're not getting out.
00:35:09
Speaker
So we actually slept downstairs for our duration at that pub. We were only there for two weeks, but that first- You were genuinely afraid that somebody might set fire. Now I obviously as well, I was good with people. So the first night this guy was buying me a drink. I was buying him a drink and we were chatting about it.
00:35:28
Speaker
The regulars, it was a very racist area, it wasn't a nice area. And they kept saying, so on Sunday, Sean, you know, we have this on the barn, this free food, this. And I was like, yeah, I'll do all that, no problem. And at the end of the night, this guy goes, oh, do you know what, Sean, you should come back to house party with us and leave your boyfriend there. And I went, oh, God, you're fine, love. And he went, no, nobody says no to me.
00:35:51
Speaker
And I was like, okay, how do I deal with this? So I tried to laugh it off and luckily I'd made friends with so many of them. They went, hold on now, don't you be rude to Sharn. Sharn's going to give us free food on Sunday and Sharn's going to do this. And they kind of saved me. And I remember at the end of the night going, God, and this guy had left a bag behind the bar. And when we opened it, there was a machete in the bag. And I was like, so we decided to sleep downstairs. So we were there for two weeks. What goes through your mind in that moment?
00:36:21
Speaker
Thank God the bag was behind the bar! Not in his hand! Does it go through your mind? Sorry, in my mind I've just gone, if that had not have gone the way he wanted it to go, and luckily the people were around me, I'm going, would he have used that on me? Could I have died tonight? I wouldn't have thought about that after, no, because it didn't happen.
00:36:47
Speaker
I would have thought,
Life in the Pub Industry and Finding Freedom
00:36:49
Speaker
oh, thank God that wasn't in his hand, but I wouldn't have thought what if that was in his hand because that period of time it's left me. But however, it does make you think, okay, how do we stop anything bad happening for the next two weeks? And it was a really, it was a horrific place, but horrific in the sense of the people there didn't
00:37:12
Speaker
were sad. I mean, they'd come in, they'd get really, really drunk. And I remember one night, this one guy only had one year and his face was like a patchwork quilt. And he was like, Sean, can I speak to you behind this pillar, you know, and I was like, Oh, good God. And he was just crying. And he was like, I hate living here. I hate this. I hate the meanness. I hate the fights I hate. And you just like these people were living in a awful place. They didn't want to be there. My
00:37:40
Speaker
boyfriend at the time got a good slap a few times, which later on was quite entertaining. Why was that? Why was it entertaining? Well, because he liked to slap a bit as our relationship went on and not at the men, mostly myself. So when I think back, I'm like, he probably deserved it, bless him. Did you know it was an abusive relationship at the time?
00:38:08
Speaker
No, I never saw that coming to be honest and it wasn't until we moved to, so we did the relief, we did a couple of awful pubs, did some lovely pubs and then we applied for our first pub which was in Bristol. And Bristol at the time again wasn't a great city, it's now stunning, it's beautiful.
00:38:25
Speaker
And we had a busy busy pub shopping center. I was the cook, made everything from scratch, my own pastry. I mean, phenomenal pub. We would turn over thousands and thousands of pounds in food. We were serving about five or six hundred people a day.
00:38:44
Speaker
in a few hours. And it was really, really busy. But it was a weekday pub. So at the weekends, it would be quiet. And it was kind of opposite, not a great area. And it would kick off sometimes. Like I bought a Doberman in that pub just because we needed just to feel like you're protected. They weren't as bad as any of the places we'd been before. But one night, I remember a load of boys trying to pull
00:39:13
Speaker
my partner out of the pub to beat him up. Because if you hit somebody inside their pub, then it's different. If he'd walked outside the pub, there's no rights there. So I was like, I remember standing in the doorway saying, like, if you step out of the pub,
00:39:29
Speaker
art, you'll be answered to me. And I'd say, and they were like, these group of lads, they're like, well, then we'll, we'll, we're going to get you. And I'm like, well, if you're going to get me, just quickly get it done. Like if you want to give me a slap, give me a slap. And then, then sense hits half of them and they go, don't be so stupid. You're not going to, we've nothing against Shang. It's him we don't like. And I'm like, okay, then just go home then because he's not coming out because I won't allow him to. And.
00:39:57
Speaker
Yeah. So it was a bit of a funny pub and, but I, I started noticing difference in him. We didn't get on as well. He was, it all started with verbal abuse, fat cow and, and all those sorts of things and embarrassing me when I'm serving people behind the bar. And then it was things like, I'd say, can I go out with the girls on Saturday night? Well, of course you can. Like no one's going to be interested in you anyway. Look at the state of view sort of thing. Trying to break your confidence.
00:40:25
Speaker
one hand just don't break me down because I, and this was completely about popularity. I got on with everybody and he didn't and literally that's it. So his ego got checked. Absolutely. All ego. So yeah, so just start with
00:40:43
Speaker
a couple of slaps here and there, and then he'd feel really, really sad about it. And I always used to make him buy me a pair of hob shoes and that used to compensate me for it. And then I just found that, so then obviously I've confided in friends a little bit, but not a lot because a lot of my friends drank in the pub and
00:41:03
Speaker
It was, at that time, it was very private for me. Anyway, one night I went clubbing with one of the girls. He came down to the club. On the way back from the club, there was a ram raid. And however, he had, sorry, what a ram raid. The ram made his wind nips drive a car into a shop and nick all the stuff from the shop. However, the ram raid probably saved me because at the time he was kicking me down the street.
00:41:32
Speaker
Oh wow. And this ram raid went off, so he jumped. We went in. The following day, and this is the weirdest story, the following day the police came in because we were witnesses of this ram raid. And there was a policeman there who said to me, I know you. And I said, do you? And he said, I know your dad. He said, I used to be a policeman in Richmond.
00:41:58
Speaker
And I went, God, how funny is that? So we were chatting away and everything. And then at the end he said, oh, you can go now to my boyfriend. And he said, can I have a word? And I said, yeah. And he goes, we have the cameras from that street. So do you want to press charges against him? He'd seen us. He'd seen everything. And I said, oh, God. What was that moment like? Oh, you'd just feel like an idiot.
00:42:22
Speaker
That's the first feeling, I feel like an idiot. Bye. Because, sorry. Take your time. I fix everything for people, but I couldn't fix that. And so, I made the decision then, I just needed to get back to London. He had burnt my Filofax, so I lost all my dresses.
00:42:47
Speaker
And then, so I was completely isolated. My parents lived on the other side of the bridge and we could never go there. I bought the dog to protect me from him as much as anything else. And my dog was amazing, unbelievable Doberman. If he went anywhere near me, that dog just would not let him near me.
00:43:08
Speaker
So he was the best thing ever. And so weird enough, so this happened with the policeman. He burned my file of facts. I felt completely isolated. I was checking for purpose all the time. Where could we, you know, where, how could I get back safely? And also he knew everything about the beer side and I was the cook. So I was like, I need to, I need to stop watching him and I need to learn this business as well as him.
00:43:36
Speaker
So funny enough, about a week after all this happened, the phone rang and he answered the phone in the office. And luckily I was in the office and he goes, oh, it's for you. And it was my best friend from Jigsaw. We used to live together. We'd lost contact. I didn't know, she didn't know where I was. I didn't know her number and she'd rang the wrong number on a phone. And my sister had answered. And now why?
00:44:05
Speaker
And she said, it's Sean, it's so weird. I rang the wrong number and your sister answered this phone. And I said, is that Kim Horn? And my sister was like, yeah, yeah. And she goes, it's Sean's mate. And she was like, Oh my God, let me give you her number. So, and I never forget. Cause the first thing she said was, Oh my God, I can't believe I've got a hold of you. Do you like take that? And so I thought, so I had someone then.
00:44:30
Speaker
at that moment or something. It was so weird. It all came together. So I remember ringing her and telling her everything that was going on. I found a pub in Wimbledon and she had just moved to Wimbledon and she said, look, we'll get this sorted. You come back to Wimbledon with him, learn everything you need to learn and then we'll get rid. Was the abuse continuing?
00:44:55
Speaker
Yeah, and probably got a little bit worse in Wimbledon because again, all my friends were there. Friends were coming in, people that knew me. So what was triggering him, your popularity, you being you essentially?
00:45:08
Speaker
Yeah, there's nothing I could do about it. Did you know that at the time? Or did you? Yeah, I remember one night in the garden Wimbledon was on and we'd serve hundreds of barbecues and I'd be going up and down with my barbecue everywhere. And I said to him one night, like, why don't you just leave? It's obvious that you don't love me. And he said, I don't love you, but I like you, you're nice like.
00:45:31
Speaker
And I remember just laughing inside going, this is just madness. What does that mean? Yeah. So basically, I really had great relationships in that pub and I had a lovely manager and we all went on a boat trip one night and I said to my manager, you have to find a way to separate us. You have to find a way, because you have to remember we're employed as a couple.
00:45:59
Speaker
So if I lose him, I lose my job. I lose my house because we lived in. I lose everything. And I was like, I'm determined to him for him not to let me lose everything.
Lessons on Strength and Independence
00:46:08
Speaker
He already makes me feel like shit. Excuse me. Sorry. But I'll go for it.
00:46:12
Speaker
But I'm determined for him not to have that power. And anyway, food drink, said this to my boss the following day, we get a call up to head office. Actually, this is a great story. Get a call up to head office and my boss says, you know, were you being serious? And I said, yes. And he said, well, then we have to split you up. So Sean, we have this pub for you in Teddington. Lee, you'll stay in Wimbledon.
00:46:36
Speaker
And the only thing he ever did for me, he said, there's no way I am staying in that pub. That is Sharn's pub. If I stay there, I will be completely ostracized. Now it was a real ale house and it was a Belgium ale house. So I was really trying to like get good at this. And my boss said, do you think you're coping? I said, I'll do my best. I'll do my best. I said, I need spirit again. Yeah. And I wasn't going to let him have it. Yeah.
00:47:05
Speaker
So now we were still in the same region. We still had the same boss. He was, and then he was like, I want, then he got very upset about things. I gave him everything. He took everything. He took the car, he took the furniture, he took everything on the premise of I would never have bought that sofa had you not told me to buy that sofa. And I'm like, well, just take it then. I don't care. Just so I lived in with no furniture for like months because I didn't care he'd gone.
00:47:34
Speaker
And did he care that you didn't care? Oh, it killed him. Yeah. Yeah. And we'd go to management meetings and the things he'd say about me were just horrific. And that's him needing to prop up his ego that you cannot, you know, you being as confident and as sure and as capable, his own ego couldn't take that. And the fact that he
00:48:04
Speaker
weren't broken when he left would have infuriated me, I imagine. But he would tell people that he left because I just disgusted him and all this and then six months later I think there was a situation, he tried to pull me and I called a taxi and said that your taxi's outside, now don't tell anybody you never fancy me, get out. And that's when I thought, I'm a winner.
00:48:28
Speaker
You had a moment and that was, you actually said that to me. And even the day that he left the pub, like the, the, the, the customers and everything through such a massive party for me, and they all kind of at different times, different people would whisper in my ear and say, you know, we knew what was going on, but we didn't know what to do. And Sam said that, you know, you would tell us if you needed us and just know that we're here for you. What was that like to hear that they knew what was going on and.
00:48:57
Speaker
different times, isn't it? You know, I don't know. I never really think about it because, you know, I got angry about it for such a long time. You know, I used to say like three or four years after I was still saying, God, if I saw him like I punch him, like I was so angry with him for making me feel that way. And then then it turns to pity, you know, you're like, isn't it sad that he had to take that much effort
00:49:27
Speaker
to dull me, to try and make me something. I just thought they're sad, really. Yeah. But also I certainly knew it would never happen to me again. Why do you say that? Because, yeah, no, I just would not let that happen again. It's not a nice feeling. What did you learn about yourself from that?
00:49:54
Speaker
I suppose don't always judge a book, but its cover for me really was the big thing. I always used to say, God, no one would ever believe that happened to me because I'm such a strong person, but actually the strongest of us are probably the weakest of us. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's what I learnt. And I think that I probably, look, I'll never say I should have left earlier. There was reasons why I didn't. I played a game. I got hurt along the way.
00:50:22
Speaker
but I got what I wanted at the end of it. It was just a horrible game to play. That's the sign of the times again, you mentioned it earlier. Yeah. You didn't, as independent, as strong, as capable as you were, you didn't have that independence. No. You were a woman on your own. Yeah. And I didn't have, I felt like I had my friends, but I didn't have family that would have probably recognized it earlier. Do you know what I mean?
00:50:50
Speaker
And culturally as well, there's that, why didn't you do this? As in the question they're always asked by the women, why didn't you leave Singer? Why did you allow that? Why
Conclusion and Teaser for Next Episode
00:50:59
Speaker
did, you know, and that's never placed the blame where the blame belongs. If that's their behavior, it was never your fault. No, absolutely. Well, I, why didn't he just leave? If he didn't like me, why didn't he just leave? Yeah.
00:51:12
Speaker
Yeah, it wasn't that. He either loved me or he hated me and that was it. Okay, so I asked what you learned from that about yourself and you said, don't you look like it's covered, but did you trust your own instincts? I think I was a lot more conscious of the people. I looked for kindness better in people.
00:51:42
Speaker
you know, he was older than me and he was better at the job that I wanted to do. I looked up to him, but after everything that I'd been through, I realised really I needed to look up to myself because however strong he might have thought he was, I don't think if the foot was on the other shoe, he would have got that.
00:52:02
Speaker
What do you mean? If the shoe... What's the expression? I don't... My shoe was on the other foot. Yeah. I don't think he would have got that. He's not... He wasn't smart enough to get that. If he was smart, he wouldn't have hit people. It was a lacking. Yeah. It was his lacking. He was trying to... Yeah. ...work through and in a really destructive, awful manner. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So, if I was to ask you to jump a little bit and then there is your partner now,
00:52:32
Speaker
And yeah, different worlds. Like, so that, I mean, I took over this one at 22. I actually left the pub business at 25 because I was very aware at 25, even having a drink at the end of the night, and then it would be seven o'clock and then it'd be five o'clock. And it was just a real drinking social. And I remember looking at my dad and looking at my sister and they were in the pub game as well. And I thought, I don't want this for myself. So I moved into gyms.
00:53:00
Speaker
I mean, there's a change. Now via modeling for a little while, I did the modeling and I ran a nightclub, had a gun pulled on me in the nightclub actually. Which you want to tell us about that? Well, that was just really interesting. Big family, rough family in the area. And he would, this one guy came in one night and was very aggressive with someone behind the bar. And I just said to him, and I knew him well, come on now, don't be like that. And he just turned around and stuck a gun to my chest.
00:53:31
Speaker
Wow, well this has been an incredible episode so far and I can't believe where I'm leaving you off. Shan standing face to face with a gun being pointed to her chest.
00:53:42
Speaker
The ways we do find out tomorrow, how she got out of this incredible predicament. But you will have to wait till tomorrow to find out what happens next. Trust me, you won't want to miss it. How Sean results this situation. And also in the next episode, we'll learn more about Sean's journey. Her journey through seven miscarriages. Her decision to travel to Spain for egg donation. How she copes in the aftermath of having to go for a medical abortion in the UK.
00:54:11
Speaker
how she finds hope after healing. Thank you for tuning in today, and if you've enjoyed this episode, please do leave us a review, share it with your friends, and don't forget to tune in tomorrow for the conclusion of Shan the Storm. Thank you.