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Queer Joy/Funk
54 Plays2 years ago
In the first of our two episodes to celebrate pride week, we delve deep into the complexities of Queer Joy and introduce the concept of Queer Funk.
We share our personal anecdotes and explore the balance between societal expectations and our unique desires. This candid discussion includes our thoughts on traditional institutions, societal norms, and the navigation through the often heteronormative world.
We shed light on our experiences and emphasise the importance of authenticity and self-compassion. We invite you to share your experiences of 'Queer Joy' and 'Queer Funk'.
Remember to like and subscribe to our podcast, and do reach out to us at plainlyqueer@gmail.com; your input is truly appreciated.
Below is a list of resources that may be of help to anyone listening:
Queer affirming counselling and psychotherapy services: https://www.insightmatters.ie/
LGBTQ+ community support in Ireland: https://lgbt.ie/
LGBTQ+ community support in Dublin: https://outhouse.ie/
LGBTQ+ Youth Support in Ireland: https://www.belongto.org/
Transgender Equality Network Ireland: https://teni.ie/
The Samaritans: https://www.samaritans.org/ireland/samaritans-ireland/
The Sister of Perpetual Indulgence: https://www.thesisters.org/
The Trauma and Healing Podcast: Found on all platforms
Paul O Beirne https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/counselling/udou-therapy--dublin-dn/1141855
Clodagh McGrath http://www.clodaghmcgrath.com
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Transcript
Welcome & Introduction to Queer Joy and Funk
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, everyone. You're very welcome to the Plainly Queer Podcast. This week, we are in Pride Week. So happy Pride, first of all. Happy Pride, everyone. So yeah, we'll be doing our two episodes this week. This is the first episode. This is Queer Joy slash Queer Funk. This was one of the first episodes that we recorded face to face together in the same room.
00:00:26
Speaker
And that brought with it a few challenges because, you know, there's fire alarms going off. There was mobile phones going off. There was everything distracting us. We had to pause quite a few times. We did. Yeah. We tried to remember what we said. Yeah. Yeah. But we, we got there in the end and yes, this episode is queer joy slash queer funk. And yeah, I think I want to start again. Can we start again? Yes, go for it. What did you not like about that?
Recording Challenges & Considerations for Young Audience
00:00:55
Speaker
No, I felt I was rambling. I always feel I'm rambling, though. We don't have to start again. I can just use what's there. Yeah. No, it was literally at the end of that going, we could wrap this up. That was a perfect introduction. Two and a half minutes of fucking something there, so we'll put something together. Remember, kids listen to this. We found out kids listen to this. We're not going to Kurtz anymore. No, that's true. We can't. No, I mean, I think the children will understand. I think the children will be accepting.
00:01:24
Speaker
And plus they sound like very like mature children, like mature of mind.
Explaining the Recording Location
00:01:30
Speaker
So thanks very much again for joining us everyone and for listening. We really appreciate your support. Enjoy this episode.
00:01:37
Speaker
Welcome to the Plainly Queer podcast. I love the way, like, this is the third time to do this. Yes. The first two times you started off really, like, high-pitched and joyous. Yes. The second time you were kind of like, a bit middle ground and now you're tentatively saying, I'm not giving my energy to this until I know. You know, every time we start, either the church bells go or the alarm goes off on the outhouse next door. So I'm like, you can have my vibe later.
00:02:04
Speaker
By the way, the Outhouse is not a place where you go to use the toilet outside of a farmhouse. Yeah, context, context. Yes, we are on Cable Street and Inside Matters recording in person and next door just happens to be the LGBTQIA Plus Resource Centre that is the Outhouse.
00:02:22
Speaker
not the actual outcome. And here's another distraction. We're not supposed to record today. We're not. Actually, with the fire alarms, maybe we're meant to leave. Maybe that's what they're ringing to tell us, going, what are you doing? Get out of the building. Well, folks, if you get this recording and we're still alive, it's great.
Defining Queer Joy
00:02:42
Speaker
OK, so today, actually talking about joy, talking about the energy. I am going to bring it now because I don't care we're recording. So what am I queer doing today?
00:02:52
Speaker
Queer joy. Yes. Fabulous and wonderful. Be yourself. What is queer joy to you?
00:02:59
Speaker
queer joy, well, I had to Google it. Well, not really had to Google it. I had a sense of what it was, but I wanted to kind of do my research and know. So I came up with a little kind of definition of what queer joy is. So queer joy is blossoming outside of rigid gender roles and norms, seeing LGBTQI plus people in leadership roles, knowing I can be myself without fear of violence, expressing myself freely through clothes,
00:03:28
Speaker
being surrounded by a diverse and powerful community. Bringing it down.
00:03:33
Speaker
Queer joy is that feeling when you see two people of the same sex holding hands or... The recognition. Yeah, recognition. When you get there, you see it. Yeah, the validation is... You are you. Yeah. I'm me. Here we are. But no, it's that... I think it's authentic validation. When you're getting that authentic validation that this is okay, who I am is okay,
00:03:58
Speaker
But you're just living your life, aren't you? Yeah, but you're living your life. Like having anyone holding your hands or having the shift on an outside panty bar or anything like that. You've got to work on your contacts. It's great. Shift is not a word that's going to be universally understood. Well, anybody who's looking to get the shift, you're looking to get the kiss. That's all it is. The shift in Ireland is to get a kiss. But it's really like queer joy is being able to do the basics of what I've been handed, what I've been... I can't speak.
00:04:26
Speaker
What am I trying to say? Without being put for it, without being put down for it, it's just the most simple things. Like I would say, this gives me queer joy. The fact that we have a podcast, that we can have these conversations, it's like, yeah, I love it. And there's nothing magic about it. It's just two people talking. It's a basic thing. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:45
Speaker
Although free speech is not a basic thing with a lot of places in the world. Yeah. But no, yeah, I can totally understand it and feel it. I know what it is now. And it's different from like just being happy in yourself. It's it's it's kind of more so there's a little bit of activism in it in a way, a little bit of defiance, a little bit of like going against the norm, which is nice. So I think that's why it's I suppose it's not just joy. And people would probably say, why are you putting queer in front of us? Why can't you not just feel joy and not have it be queer
Public Displays of Affection & Personal Stories
00:05:15
Speaker
joy?
00:05:15
Speaker
but exactly like even what you're saying there people wanted to go away people want queerness you can do what you like but just do it behind closed doors again living your life just as you are without having it be this radical act would be amazing but the fact that it exists now and when you can see it you do get that and you say when people are holding hands and you're like yes go for it brilliant you're legends no I'm like you fuckers I'm single well Janellis
00:05:44
Speaker
I'm like, if anyone tried to hold my hand, I'd be like, publicly, privately, get away from me. Yeah, you see it all depends what you're into as well. I must say now, in relationships I've been in, I'm very kind of PDA orientated. I think I'm just, I don't mind it. Like, I actually enjoy it. Not enjoy it. I'm not conscious of it. Are you voyeuristic? Do you want people to see you shifting outside panty bar? That's not voyeuristic. That's just kissing someone. I'll talk it.
00:06:12
Speaker
Oh my God, I actually, sorry, it just brings me back to a memory that I won't share. Okay, I have to ask you now. I was drinking a couple of months ago. I had a couple of drinks with a friend and we got talking to these two people and we were out, I just remember being outside Panty Bar and kissing the two people at the same time. So it was like this, like three people just, I don't know, have you done it before? Kissed two people at the same time? No, how does that happen? It's three people kissing.
00:06:42
Speaker
it's like you just triangle your yeah it's try it's very kind of like i don't know trinity kind of but anyway that happened i don't know why that came into the conversation do you feel queer joy at that
00:06:55
Speaker
That's a really radical act. It was a bit of queer joy. I was like, Pat, you are kissing two people at the same time. Yeah, more than that anyway. But it's actually a really interesting thing, sensation-wise. Because you're so used to just kissing one person. But then, like, two is... it's nice. You probably would struggle with any more than two.
00:07:15
Speaker
I have a feeling you would. I think that the three is the perfect kind of its triangle. That would never have even come into my mind to even do. Yeah, but obviously it came into my mind. I just didn't want to leave anyone else. The fact that you can do that standing outside of Povin Ireland is fantastic.
00:07:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's true. Yeah, that is amazing.
Ireland's Progress in LGBTQ+ Rights
00:07:42
Speaker
And I think it goes to in Ireland, there's a lot of there's a lot to be joyful of in terms of Irish queer joy, if you want to say. So what I mean by that is the marriage Equality Act in 2015, the first country in the world to bring it in by the majority vote. Like, is that not amazing? Is that like Irish pride?
00:08:03
Speaker
queer pride no it was a very big moment for the country i agree and for progression i i don't know though like
00:08:13
Speaker
Should, there is the argument, why should we get married? Why should people get married? Like, why should queer people want to buy into that?
Critiquing Marriage & Alternative Views on Commitment
00:08:25
Speaker
Is that validation authentic? Like... Well, for me, it just goes to the choices we have as queer people just should be the same as anybody else. So whether we want to or not, or... But is it right for us? Just because other people do it. Is it what we... But that's an individual choice.
00:08:42
Speaker
No, of course it is. Well, I suppose what I'm coming at is dismantle the whole concept of what marriage is. Oh, I'm right there with you. What is the point? Yeah, a lot of like, there's a lot of legal stuff tied into it. It's very, marriage is so utilitarian. Like, coming from someone that's experienced marriage, and experienced divorce, I bought into the heteronormative, I can get validation from this. And I didn't.
00:09:08
Speaker
Did you have that growing up? Did you have the, I want the house kids, the family, the 2.0 heteronorative? No, I didn't want the family. I didn't want the kids. I kind of knew myself. I couldn't really, I didn't want to have that kind of responsibility of kids. I'm too flighty. I like adventure too much. Anyway, I couldn't settle down. So yeah, but I wanted the other thing.
00:09:32
Speaker
I don't know what that was but there was a sense afterwards of like this inauthentic validations like oh I've done this because I can do it and everyone else does it and now everything will feel right but it didn't I still felt really different and I don't know I understand it gives people protections it binds people it's like it does have purpose and meaning but I think like
00:09:57
Speaker
the radical in me now is just like dismantle the whole thing like not even not just for queer people but for heterosexual people as well i think for me i've never wanted it's never been something of the kids or the marriage or anything like that for me is like a partner for sure but never that institution if you wanted to say to go into it and like if a person is with you as you say they're kind of more tied to you because it's legal and whatever
00:10:25
Speaker
I'm like, that for me is the worst thing ever. If the only reason we're trying to stay in the relationship is because it's harder to get out of it. I want somebody who wants to be in it, who wants to work in it, who wants to, who gets into it knowing that this is going to be hard, bloody work. And am I in it? Absolutely. And also for me is like for that partner to go, if you're not happy, if this isn't it,
00:10:53
Speaker
go do you please do you that's like something I think as a as a love if you've loved that person you want them happy so not being with me or not being in a relationship or whatever the dynamic is go do it please I want you to be you
00:11:11
Speaker
Yep, like where did marriage even come from? Religion! This totally random black hole of a conversation. Let's go to the end and see where it takes us. Yeah, it led now to my question of where did marriage even come from. But it was, it was out of religion, right? Yeah. It came from the church. And yeah, so you have to think, is that a really reputable source for something we should want to follow? Like a social narrative?
00:11:36
Speaker
what is this the Rome the first Roman emperor so there was Caesar and then right after him he he adopted Augustus right? Augustus wanted to make a marriage principle of the the Roman Empire so he put like punishments to anybody who stays single so like higher tax rates they they just weren't as valued in society so he made it like harder to be single
00:12:00
Speaker
and that's why marriage became more important now religion obviously had them as bindings and even like a non-secular and what's that tying your rope around your hand and symbolizing your your binding yeah all that sort of stuff so it's been around are you a restraint what are the other yeah
00:12:18
Speaker
but that's how it really took hold is in the Roman Empire he started that and was like lads the crock is never mind that he was writing about himself he made it like you could be punished by debt if you were committing adultery or anything like that and he's committing adultery left right center so even that it came about out of wanting power it came about of wanting families to have kids so he'd have people to go into his armies
00:12:43
Speaker
like it's so cynical like it's so like there's nothing in it in the foundation of what you think marriage is love commitment all of that it's like actually how it exists today is because some fellow was like okay the empire is going to fall apart unless we do something so right let's bind people together and make it really shitty for them if they are not married and not having kids because we need soldiers wow that's great i've learned a lot today
00:13:11
Speaker
I only read that the other day, so it was like actually really odd. I was meant to be. No, I do agree. Let's go back to queer joy. Can I bring something in
The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence
00:13:23
Speaker
here? Absolutely. Queer joy in terms of the church, right? So anybody that knows me, I don't have a lot of time for it. The church. Yeah. Now your beliefs or anything like that, I will champion you to the last. Absolutely.
00:13:38
Speaker
And I think if you have that faith, it is such a gift. However, the organized religion. No. But I came up, so doing a little research today for this. Are you going to talk about your article? Yeah. We have to do a segment. No, we won't. I think this is a good segue into it because we're on that. I think it is. Yeah. I'm really interested to hear this. And now if I can find it. So, oh yeah. So the article is about it. And I love this name. The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.
00:14:08
Speaker
Hank, what is that name? I think it's like when you put the contact, because I know a little bit about it already. You were very excited about it. I think it sounds a bit kind of a little bit naughty. Yes. Yeah. Is it not amazing? So, OK, what I'm talking about is they wrote an article in the it's in The Independent, but it's obviously behind the paywall. You can find it in other places. I'll find a link and link it to it. But there's an international network of 3000 secular LGBT plus nones.
00:14:35
Speaker
dedicated to promoting joy and liberation. Like, that's my kind of church.
00:14:42
Speaker
How do they promote the joy and liberation? So they attend protests, they distribute free condoms, sexual health leaflets, fostering a sense of pride, acceptance within the community, the queer nuns, like prams. Nothing is like, everybody is welcome. They are from, they can be found in Sydney, Los Angeles, Huddersfield. I think their main office is in Manchester. In the UK? Yeah, not office, but one of their, what do you call it? Where nuns live.
00:15:09
Speaker
A nunnery? A nunnery? Yeah, let's call it that. I'm sure it's not, but people will, yeah. So they're nunnery, closest to us. Siri? Where do nuns live? They're homes, anyway. But it was because of the Catholic Church, and it was drawn out of that. So it was the same.
00:15:29
Speaker
principles of nuns trading in the Catholic Church and going through all the stages and they created that book for the queer community. Anybody who had faith and wanted to continue it and promote the joy of queer community. Are they called a cloister of nuns?
00:15:45
Speaker
Yeah, they're cloister. Cloister comes as to a Manchester. Yeah, cloister. And began in the 1970s in San Francisco. And yeah, it's, I just think the sisters are perpetual indulgence. I'm like, I want to sign up to you now, just for the name.
00:16:04
Speaker
You go for it. Do they wear the kind of the actual habits? Yeah. Yeah. And they grant St. Hudson's to the Unsolved Heroes of the LGBT community. Yeah. Honouring the work and contributions. Yeah. Is there any examples of who they've sainted? I don't think I have any. I know. Give me two seconds. It's coming up now. Angels of Hot Springs. Oh my God. Amazing.
00:16:30
Speaker
What's the Angels of Hot Springs? The Saints, there's all these names, right? So this is under the Boston sisters' orich, right? The Boston sisters have perpetual indulgence under the saints. They have Eliza the Holy, spelled W-H-O-L-E-Y. Another saint called All the Rage. Another saint called Angel of Hot Springs. Do they have Rupaul the Righteous?
00:16:57
Speaker
Oh, I mean, like if they don't. One of them is called Best Buy. Fast Fingers. Oh my God. I love it. Do you not just enjoy that?
Barriers to Experiencing Queer Joy
00:17:10
Speaker
Yeah, aren't they just great names? Best Buy is actually a trying store in the United States. Yeah, I know. And it's obviously not B-U-I, it's B-I. Oh. Oh, there's one called The Irish Eyes. I have to click into this person.
00:17:27
Speaker
Neve Foley has been an instrumental part in the relationship between the Boston sisters of perpetual indulgence and Fenway community health. In addition to being an amazing human and a friend to the sisters, she was much needed as a presence in the community, to her leadership. Oh, I thought you were talking about an Irish person. That's a very Irish name, isn't it? Cut that out. Wait, are you recording now?
00:17:49
Speaker
Oh, I'm just sitting here going like that. We have to pause again because next door started the second alarm going. Okay, so we're back in. You're very chilled here and you're like, I don't know what's going on. We're recording again. Yeah. Yes. So what do you think of the sisters?
00:18:11
Speaker
I like the name. I think their work is good. It brings me queer joy. I think we should discuss the barriers to queer joy because that's even coming up now. For me, I'm kind of, I was saying earlier, I'm just really bleh at the moment. And sometimes there's barriers to even feeling that joy or wanting to experience it because life is tough. Life can be fucking tough. And it's trying to even get through that.
00:18:38
Speaker
And there's no, yeah. So it's kind of ironic in a way, I suppose, because I know we were going to discuss queer joy. We thought it'd been on the radar for a few days. But yeah, what about when you're not even, you can't even let it in because life is fucking shit. There's a very human experience, though, isn't there?
00:18:59
Speaker
Well, I am a human. Yeah. It's sorry. What always goes to me and when I was taking up this piece is that and you said it as well. Why call it queer joy? Why not call it joy? It's the other ring. And I think like as a barrier, the internalized homophobia, the internalized transphobia, the internal just the internalization of what the world is telling you all the time, these negative things. So like when you you may be blocked off from it, you may not be able to connect with it because it's
00:19:28
Speaker
It's too much. It's something you have to reject because you've been told your whole life. It's awful. Yeah. Sometimes hetero, like sometimes like the heteronorm, it's like would it be fair to say that like the world is the heteronorm took place?
Finding Joy Within Structures
00:19:46
Speaker
That's a fair statement, is it? Yes. Because I don't want to be bashing society, but it's quite a heteronaut place. What the hell is that up? Yeah. I find lately that I'm just finding the world very mundane. Right.
00:20:01
Speaker
very like when you do go with the flow and go with kind of what is supposed to be done yeah it's kind of boring so you're in the flow of heteronormacy as in oh i think like like i just bought my house i'm kind of like living in my house i'm kind of like fixing the tap when it leaks i'm cutting the grass i'm doing all this stuff what's the opposite of that
00:20:27
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. What am I supposed to do with my life? Where can I find queer joy? And that is it, I suppose. Where can you find queer joy? I'm not, I guess, queer joy is when you see, oh, that couple holding hands across the street and everything like that, or yes, kind of the marriage rep, but that's all third party.
00:20:50
Speaker
But it's also, I suppose, it goes beyond that, doesn't it? It's like your life beyond that. So like if you're going to, very mundane, but like if you're going to the cinema, being able to see yourself reflected on the screen, or queerness reflected on the screen, or if you're going to see art, you know, that means queer artists, it reflects something in you that, oh yeah, I get that because they get it. Is it life beyond the hetero,
00:21:17
Speaker
normal or glimpses of it yeah yeah glimpses of it because like is it do you see yourself in the world i do see myself in the world sometimes i don't reckon this is fucking turning into personal therapy session you've bugged off your armchair now you're psychoanalyzing me i did bring this in yeah no i suppose i just wanted to highlight that yes
00:21:44
Speaker
queer joy and feeling joy in general is good but sometimes it can be very difficult to even to see that light through some of the darkness that's out there. A lot of the, like these days the rhetoric that's out there, the transphobic rhetoric out there is just every time you look at the news or there's always something there and that's what inclusion is for me.
00:22:11
Speaker
Like inclusion is allowing every individual to experience their joy. Whatever brings them joy. That's inclusion for me. It's the goal of everyone being allowed to experience their joy consensually and legally within society. And that's just being restrictive for so many people.
00:22:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's hard and I thought I was going through just the game scroll and going through Twitter, going through Instagram and all this stuff that was coming because I probably follow more queer stuff as well but like the struggle that's out there. It's here as well like you were talking about the library and the protest going into the library and what I found so hard about that is that they were escorted in by the guards.
00:23:01
Speaker
I don't, I'm sorry, but I do not understand that. There was protesters, counter-protesters outside the library and the guards stopped them from going in, but allowed the other protesters that were trying to remove queer books or anything got to do with queer life from the library. I'm sorry, is that a society that we're living in right now? When we're the country, the first country to vote in gay marriage? What? Doesn't make sense.
00:23:31
Speaker
Ah, just as you mentioned there, oh, we're the country that voted in gay marriage. I think that's in the past. I think that's kind of... It seems like it is. It's becoming in the rearview mirror now. We have to kind of stop using that as a base to say, we're progressive.
00:23:51
Speaker
I think we've fallen on it, haven't we? We've fallen on marriage. Why use marriage as a base to say, oh, we're progressive, we can get married now? Look, I think we need to shift focus. I think, for me again, it's the choice. Yeah. And I hear you, it shifts focus. But the focus, as you just rightly said, is going, you be you. As your business name is called, you do you. This is the second podcast in a row. You pluck my butt. Thank you so much.
00:24:21
Speaker
Here's your 20 euros. While I did start the podcast that we had to re-record because I announced to my other podcast, the trauma healing podcast. Oh, that's true. Obviously so traumatized. Everything we've got to blow, we'll just blow it.
00:24:38
Speaker
but I do think you're right that the movement is to just let everybody be themselves as you say as long as they're not bringing them up or being assholes but like just allow people to be themselves and stop looking over at your neighbor going what are you doing is that okay because it's so freaking tiring
00:24:58
Speaker
And that word, just as you're bringing it up, let's get real, okay?
Self-Discovery & Life Audits
00:25:03
Speaker
Let's get real what this is today. I'm not in a good place, so I'm gonna name it. And I think I'm resistant to queer joy. And I think that is, I'm even noticing that in myself, because I'm very reflexive. But yeah, I think I'm resistant to a bit about queer joy, because I'm in a bit of a shitty place at the moment.
00:25:21
Speaker
There's a very good phrase that I learned last week, someone mentioned it in relation to kind of what I'm feeling at the moment, a life audit. Did I tell you about this during the week? No. No. So I think I'm going through a life audit. Right. Where you're kind of like, it's a fancy name for a midlife crisis. Right. Even though I'm not midlife yet.
00:25:41
Speaker
but I think I've nothing to distract me like kids or anything like that or kind of anything too pressureful on to distract me so I think I just get to focus on it a little bit earlier but yeah so I think it's a life audit I like that it's kind of like who have I become in this world that I've grown up in and what does bring me joy what does
00:26:05
Speaker
allow me to kind of recognize that in the world, that joy in the world. And for me to experience my joy. What is my joy?
00:26:13
Speaker
I mean, that first lady for saying that and for sharing it so publicly. But that actually is a really... Oh shit, yeah, cut that out. No, no. But no, seriously, that is a really good point. To anyone listening going, oh, feck off. Would you ever feck off at your joy? Like, things are shit at the moment. Yeah, I'm depressed. I'm anxious. There are people out there with actual real life problems. And I suppose for them, it's kind of like, yeah, I just have bigger things going on.
00:26:43
Speaker
So where do you find it then? How do you like it? It's not about joy, but like it's about, okay, this is where I'm at. I can't even, as we're talking about this, I can't connect to it. So what do you need there?
00:26:56
Speaker
You probably need to just be kind to yourself. Absolutely. And to give yourself time. I think that, I think, unfortunately, I am not great with time. I'm giving things time. Impulsivity, procrastination, lack of focus. But yeah, people really do need to give themselves time if they find themselves in that situation. Yeah. Like if you find yourself a bit stuck
00:27:21
Speaker
or life is a bit mundane or it's just going through the motions and not being able to kind of like, yeah, I guess it's to find hope.
00:27:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think as well as to normalize it. And if I can say this, like you were mentioning, you were in a like a transition period. Like you've just finished your degree. Yeah. You're starting or have started a new and the sex and relationship. Therapy, yeah. And you've just moved. Yeah. You still have the day job. You haven't quite moved into being full time or even going thinking about being full time as a therapist. You're in between a lot of things.
00:28:02
Speaker
Well, when you frame it like backload, it all makes sense. Well, my point about that is it's because it's not to, it's to say, of course you'd feel like that. Yeah. And it's like that. It's cutting yourself at break. Yeah. And as you said at the top, like the kindness you have to give yourself. So queer kindness, queer kindness. Yeah.
00:28:21
Speaker
You're doing okay. I looked at your phrase the other day. I was verbalising some of this to go out in a text message the other day. And remember you messaged back with me. Yeah. Paul, it's not like you're going around kicking puppies. You were giving out to yourself for something really minor and I could hear you. It was like it was really bugging you. I was like, you're acting as if you've just kicked puppies the way you're treating yourself.
00:28:48
Speaker
I love that. That kind of gave me a chuckle. But yeah, I think, but that, that's what it is as well. And we're talking about queer joy and I know we touched on this and it'll be a nice segue into it. Not feeling deserving of joy. No, especially in the queer community, internalized homophobia. Not feeling like you even deserve to feel it. I think that's important to name as well.
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah. I, you, you mentioned this as to talk about today and I was like, okay, what, what is my relationship to that? And I don't think I'm not like, I don't know. Like I can't, I'm trying to think back of when I wouldn't have done this podcast because there would have been a time of going, you are not raising your head above the purpose because you will get knocked.
00:29:34
Speaker
There's vulnerability there. Yeah. And now I'm like, oh, you can say what you like. You're going to do it anyway. But I was wondering when that happened for me. And I can't quite put my finger on it. It's probably within the last few years. And you talk about having a midlife crisis or a midlife audit.
00:29:52
Speaker
Definitely having a midlife crisis, but I'm freaking embracing it. Like I'm going buzz the wall up going right. This is what I fancy doing. Fuck that I'm doing it. I don't have kids. I don't have a mortgage. I don't have any gang privilege. Name me a book. I don't. So I'm like, I actually don't care. I'm like joy. If this brings me joy, let's do for the crack and see what happens.
00:30:14
Speaker
See, that is where one, I'm really envious of you. And two, it's like what I did with marriage. I bought into the marriage and it was like inauthentic validation because it was into a kind of, what is a marriage? An institution. Thank you. That wasn't authentic to me and didn't suit me. And now I'm buying into the like, oh, you bought property because that's what you do. You buy the property and you get a mortgage and then you sit down in your house for the rest of your life. And that's it. And I feel, I think that's what's happening.
00:30:43
Speaker
I feel like I've bought into this other institution that we've been programmed to buy into. And now I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? Well, reframe it then. Yeah. Okay. So I really hear that. So it's like, okay, for me, I'm like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing with my life. I'm having great fun at the moment doing the things I'm doing. And that is bringing me joy. However, when I go to do something, it's like, oh, like,
00:31:05
Speaker
Is this the right thing? Should I be doing this? All of those things do go through my mind. I'm like, okay, I'm going to try it on. I'm going to see what it's like when I try it on. I'm going to see what it's like to wear this. I'm going to see what it's like to do this. And for you, it's like, okay, well, I made a major purchase as in the property, but like redefine it for yourself.
00:31:26
Speaker
It's the second time I've purchased property and I feel... You really are privileged, aren't you? You're just like trolling that out there. It's the second home. Listen, it's like we said in the introduction that we recorded a few weeks ago. It's like this fumbling through life yet somehow very accomplished. I'm total the epitome of imposter syndrome. Like, it's like, oh, I'm really down on myself. There's a good... Yeah.
00:31:50
Speaker
But there's also as well, when I owned my first property, there was the feeling that I felt tied into it. You feel cemented literally in the foundation zone. There's huge consequences if you just go, I'm leaving out there now. The banks will be after you or the house will be falling around itself. I think you can actually just hand something back to the bank. I think you can just leave.
00:32:14
Speaker
As in, I imagine there's more too and huge consequences for anybody that's listening. Do not take this as advice. Dude, just have the keys back. Yeah. You'll never get a mortgage again. Anarchy. Anarchy. Burn it down. Anarchy. No, of course not. Plus I've invested, like I, there was a lot, there's a lot of my own money in it. I love the way this podcast has just turned into, let's sort Paul's life out. Well, it brings me joy.
00:32:41
Speaker
there's me just facilitating queer joy. But like one of the one of the things that we're talking about like is you're saying the anarchy like it feels like the anarchist in you is like you fake it all, throw it out all at the window and that is part of joy as well so like in spite of yourself you're like the pride in the protest that's how pride came about as a protest so you're like going I feel like I'm in the heteronormative box and I want to protest it
00:33:09
Speaker
But then if you don't want to exist in that, or you don't want to follow that kind of narrative or buy into that institution of mortgage. No, but listen, what's the alternative? Because you can't find anywhere to rent.
00:33:23
Speaker
So you're so restricted in the fact that everything is made so difficult for you. As in, okay, I don't want to buy into getting a mortgage or anything like that. I'll just rent. But then you go to rent and rent is more than the mortgage. And there's no protections. You could be turfed out next year. Definitely in Ireland, our system in housing is like renting. Oh, it's ridiculous. There's no security. And even just to find a place is insane.
00:33:50
Speaker
Like in Europe, like you can get 10, 20 lifetime year leases. Lifetime year? 20 lifetimes. What was I going to say there? So there again, think outside the box. What is keeping you in Ireland?
00:34:06
Speaker
Oh, work. Like you say, I'm in a transition. If people listening to the podcast want to hang on in here, who knows where I'll be in a year's time. So let's be interested and look back on this episode.
00:34:23
Speaker
would be amazing actually to do that in a year's time if we were lucky enough to be sitting and still recording our musings and our ramblings that we could reflect back and say during that time we were talking about queer joy ironically you brought up the topic of queer joy and let's discuss it and you came in really depressed really kind of down on yourself wondering what where the fuck your life is going and like
00:34:48
Speaker
What was that? And then it would be really nice to look back on that. That would probably bring me queer joy. Yeah. And I think even by you naming that for yourself, what is what you're working towards. Okay. So it may not look like that now.
00:35:06
Speaker
but incrementally, you are doing the things, the moves you need to make in getting there. And I think that's really important as well, no matter where or what stage you are. So if there are barriers to your joy, even in the most minutest ways, create
Daily Rituals & Recognizing Joy
00:35:24
Speaker
joy in your life. If it's getting up with the sunset, I don't think that's part of mine, unless I was in like some fabulous Pentai suite.
00:35:31
Speaker
yeah like oh open the balcony curtains i would have to the veranda yeah and somebody hands you like a mimosa but no what i'm talking about is so like i for me a long time ago i had to go and really go what is it i remember somebody giving me the this
00:35:51
Speaker
like work thing to do or not work thing to do as in for myself as in Personal development. That's what I'm trying to say and it was like write your perfect day and like my perfect day is always evolving So but at that time it was like, okay get up and have a really nice cup of coffee and get outside and like where I lived like the Birds and there was trees I love nature and of the just seeing it even just seeing it even if it's just a window But I made my morning
00:36:19
Speaker
that part of ritual so like making the coffee so i started doing the coffee grinds so even you could smell it so like every part of that was like brought me joy it was enough to get i hate to smell the coffee i'm sorry i'm sitting here going
00:36:35
Speaker
But everybody will have that for themselves. If it's to get up and go for a walk or it's to get up and go and see your kids and that smile when they wake up, if they're happy smiling kids in the morning and don't start screaming. But that sort of thing, the most minute things start there. What is within your control?
00:36:53
Speaker
What can you do to bring joy into your life? Like after that, keep the goal in mind of where it is you want to go. If you don't know where it is, start talking. Start talking to people going, I don't know where I want to go. I don't know what my life looks like. I know I'm unhappy now. And then start creating. This is exactly what talk therapy is, isn't it? The monologue I just gave you probably won't come into it. I have talked about those things before, but probably not as tea as that.
00:37:20
Speaker
No, yeah, so I suppose the... Okay, so apart from this moment now, when was the last time you experienced queer joy? That is a really good question. Isn't it? It's so hypocritical that we talk about it and don't recognise it in our own lives. Something happened recently, sorry, give me a second with this, because something did happen recently.
00:37:43
Speaker
And... You can cut this long pause actually. I know, I'm gonna have to cut it out, yeah. Sorry, I knew throwing the same would be a spanner because I'm stroking to recognise it. Yeah. I'm casting my mind back and I'm kind of like, okay, when was the last time you experienced like queer joy as we've just kind of framed it? Do you want me to read it again? And that way it might spark. Okay, go for it. Okay, so queer joy is...
00:38:08
Speaker
Blossoming outside of rigid gender roles and norms. Seeing LGBTQIA plus people and leadership roles. Knowing I can be myself without fear of violence. Expressing myself freely through clothes. Being surrounded by a diverse and powerful community. Okay. And this is very bougie.
00:38:29
Speaker
OK, cool. OK, so part of my midlife crisis that I travel now and I go and I stay in places for months at a time. And I decided a drop of a hat where I'm going to go. I never planned. With the last place I was in, a place called Esterpong in Spain. And in the mornings I might go down and there's a walking train up the back. And I had this moment of there's this fabulous view of another like development. So it looked like something out of Aladdin, the way the way it was built, beautiful. And
00:39:00
Speaker
I loved it when I came around the corner, this came into your view and I was like, oh my God, I've got a fantasy and I'm loving my life basically. And then I, I don't know, I must've read something or again, Twitter, it's been awful and whatever. And I was like, I am so lucky that one, as a woman traveling on her own, but as a queer person traveling on her own, that I feel so safe.
00:39:22
Speaker
I was like, this is part of the world that I want to live in. This does exist. And it was just a moment of, I'm so grateful. It's not perfect. I know it's not perfect. Life isn't perfect. But in that moment, I was like, I am, as a queer person, doing what I want to do, living my life the way I want to live it. And I'm safe in doing that. And I felt really, yeah, that brought me joy. That was lovely. Yeah. That was nice. How long ago was that?
00:39:50
Speaker
That was probably a month ago. So how long on the hill? Five, six weeks? Just over a month. I'm trying to remember what it was that sparked me to ask you, can we discuss queer joy? And I'm trying to remember. Because obviously it came into my head. Yeah. Something that happened. We were doing voicemails. We were voicemailing back and forth about something.
00:40:16
Speaker
When was... I'm kind of... I'm gonna put the message into WhatsApp, okay? And I'm gonna see when I... You see my block? There's a block here. Yeah. And I want to reconnect, so I'm going to put into the WhatsApp chat queerjoy and try and figure out where I was
00:40:36
Speaker
at that time. So it was Tuesday. We, yes, I remember you were discussing the Gilmore Girls because I was in... You were in Hartford, Connecticut. I was in Connecticut and you were discussing that. It's a queer joy. Yes. So, the message was we can discuss our queer joy maybe at going public.
00:41:00
Speaker
I was doing posts for this podcast. Oh yes. I was creating content for the podcast. And that was bringing me joy. I'm not allowed to use this. I'm not allowed to say it's done from the podcast. You can because you need to say that for yourself.
00:41:16
Speaker
yeah it's linking me back into it yeah yeah i remember i was creating content and it was really cool i was really excited about it and i was like we have to discuss queer joy the joy at and let's name it oh my god i'm getting into it digging myself out of the pity hole so yeah i
00:41:37
Speaker
That's
Creating Content & Overcoming Negativity
00:41:38
Speaker
what it was. I was so excited about the release. And it was like the joy I felt in that and creating that content, putting myself out there, but also the vulnerability. And I said, let's discuss the vulnerability, that incentive imposter syndrome that I'm not good enough to do this.
00:41:53
Speaker
I don't have the right to do this. People are going to judge me. People are going to think that I'm talking shite or like, who do you think you are? And I think I felt really empowered in that moment. I was like, let's talk about queer joy because in that moment. But it's crazy how my mind, since then, now this is Friday, so that's only three days ago. Since three days ago, there's been a shift in my thinking
00:42:19
Speaker
to a more negative point of view and how that's taken away from that queer joy. But it still doesn't change the fact that I created that content. It still exists but it got lost. It still exists but it got lost. Right. How do you ground yourself every day? How do I ground myself? I do like going to the beach. I like actually standing in the sand and grounding myself.
00:42:42
Speaker
right part of that then is going to be because it's like the middle I thought it going okay I need to like be grinding my 7.1 who's bringing me joy so like a gratitude journal all of that sort of stuff it's cliche but it works because our mind will cloud it with all of the crap with all of the bills with all of the stuff we have to do and it's like tell me about the thoughts about us that's so crazy that like just
00:43:05
Speaker
And I suppose it's good that people can maybe hear this and go, this is how you come to a realisation that, oh shit, I'm my own worst enemy. I'm allowing these feelings of inadequacy, that vulnerable self, that fear to come in and overshadow any good things that are in your life. So it's important to focus on the good things and the joy.
00:43:28
Speaker
I remember that feeling going, that's just because we're joy. And it's, I suppose it's anchoring back to that. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. That was like epiphanies or something. I don't know. I know. This is just fantastic. I didn't know where we were going to go with this. If this therapy would be a breakthrough.
00:43:44
Speaker
But we are like slash mental health. You know what I mean? Like there's no way the two of us cannot be bringing mental health into everything. It does like focus into it though. Like it does bring it around. I think that's what's important. It's to try and recognize these kind of if maybe to recognize this in I don't know, I'm gone down. Rescue me. Rescue me. To recognize if you're finding it hard to find joy. Yes.
00:44:10
Speaker
And if you are, even just that simple exercise. When was the last time I did find joy? Yes, and trending back to it. That thing of my day, what does bring me joy? And start doing it. This was literally a mental health intervention and people have just got to experience it firsthand. And it happened at Inside Masters on Cape Hill Street, which is a centre for mental health for the queer community. This place is magic.
00:44:35
Speaker
yeah we're magic i was about to say let's bring it back to ourselves yeah this place is lovely too yeah no i think that's cool i think that's cool we're both pretty joyous yeah are you feeling this i am definitely okay i never lost it okay
00:44:53
Speaker
Just be then. And then I'd be like, I did, like in all fairness, I did text you yesterday going, this whole adulting thing, I'm not sure, like, can I get a refund? Sometimes it's just the grind of it going, the list of things I have to do. So if you don't buy into the normative institutions in life, okay? Let's, as an adult. I still have to show up for work. Yeah, but what do we, what is the alternative? What is the alternative to? To become really, really rich.
00:45:23
Speaker
yeah i live on your balcony drinking mimosas okay but how do we do that i don't know do you can we marry as in marry rich i know we're going back into that but like in a really queer way you want to marry a rich person yeah but like not marry as in like the sister's perpetual indulgence how do we get that shit going
00:45:44
Speaker
Okay, wait, but do you want to get married or do you want to buy into a cloister? It's what I
Personal Contradictions & Authenticity
00:45:50
Speaker
want. Yeah, this is what I want I want if my partner person like they have their own house or persons or persons They have their own house not like too far away, but not so you want to find someone that's already done all the hard work. I
00:46:07
Speaker
Well, no, I see there's a sense of pride in me as well. I'm like, I am nobody's. Yes. You see, that's why I was always conscious to buy my own places. Like I bought my first house myself and I just bought my second house myself. There was a sense, but that's me. I always protect myself. That's more about security and needing a sense of security. Yeah. Now I have that. I just want away from it. You're never, have they? I'm never happy. I'm like this. It's like.
00:46:32
Speaker
It's the biggest contradiction there is. I'm like a walking contradiction. I am embracing it. Sometimes it's difficult. But I appreciate moments like this to talk it through. I'll also be talking it through in personal therapy this week. Go for it, yeah. There's a few highlights from the week we've to go over. Okay, I think we've covered Queer Joy. I think we've covered actually more than Queer Joy, how to get out of the queer funk and go back to joy. I love this. You should trademark that. The queer funk.
00:47:03
Speaker
Okay. Had you heard that anywhere before? No, I just... That is yours, okay? Queer Funk. You heard it here first, folks. That... can we... actually, let's not call the episode Queer Joy. Queer Funk. Let's call it Queer Funk. Okay. And I think how, like, being in the Queer Funk and maybe how to refocus, reshift your focus on Queer Joy. You need the Queer Funk finding joy. Reshifting focus to joy, maybe. Yeah. Queer Joy. We'll work on it. By the time you listen to this, we'll have it figured out.
00:47:33
Speaker
We would love to hear from you. We would love to hear about your queer joy. It's pretty strange that you're talking to me. Let's just say this. I'm just looking and squirting in the eye asking ye the listeners. Basically our parents and friends. Again, my parents did not listen to this. No, either of mine. I don't think so. I just talked about napping to people outside.
00:47:56
Speaker
I couldn't have had parents listen to this. At this stage they're like, yeah, yeah, you're great. No, but listen, if anybody is listening and they would like to share their queer joy, queer funk moments, please do. We would love to hear from you and yeah, tell us all what it's like where you are.
00:48:14
Speaker
Let's, I echo that of course. I also want to speak to, like that, how far we've come. We've actually been recording for the last four months to get the back catalogue, so I think it's important at this stage to know that, what we've given to this already. And like that, maybe that's why it's in my mind now that it's going out there. Because I don't think we've held a lot
00:48:38
Speaker
don't think we've held back i think it's very authentically us so to put something that's authentically us out there is very kind of yeah we're opening ourselves up so we've opened ourselves up so hopefully people like what they hear and if they've gotten this far and they're still listening but yeah that is true yeah we do appreciate that continue to do so and yeah just look for the queer joy in your life
00:49:03
Speaker
And also, is there anything you'd like us to talk about, subjects that you'd like the conversations to be opened up about? Send us in your topics. We'd love to hear from you. Okay. Paul, how are you feeling now?
00:49:17
Speaker
Yeah, it feels strange. I do love... It didn't feel right just talking about queer joy, so I think it's so natural and really authentic to how I am at the moment, to bring in the queer funk, to copyright and trademark and write a book about queer funk. So it's really important to name that. I think other people will also be able to actually recognise...
00:49:39
Speaker
relate to that and relate to the two things maybe existing at the same time, one maybe more than the other. So I think that's really good to frame it like that. Queer joy, queer funk. I've learned a lot today. So have I. And then yeah, quite funky but now even quite joyous. So yeah. Absolutely. Right. Only here on the Play New Queer podcast, learn all your personal life interventions. That said, like a great average. Right folks, we'll talk to you in the next episode. Bye. Thank you so much. See you then. Bye.