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00:00:01
22: Unidentified Aerial Podcast #4; "War Time Jitters On The West Coast"
375 Plays3 years ago
In this episode Graeme and Dave take a trip back to 1942 Los Angeles and try and work out exactly what caused the US Army to fire over 1400 rounds of ammunition into the Tinseltown skies. Was it a secret Japanese attack? War time paranoia? Special guest David Marler helps with the deductions.
How to get in touch;
Email: UnidentifiedAerialPodcast@gmail.com
Twitter: @ShadowsMagazine (Dave) or @Borders750 (Graeme)
@AnomalousPodNet
Competition details;
WIN a signed copy of Graeme Rendall's book 'UFOs Before Roswell - European Foo Fighters 1940-45. To be in with a chance of winning this fantastic historical resource all you have to do is follow Anomalous Podcast Network on twitter and retweet our competition post with your answer to the following question: Dave had a pre-determined list of 52 song titles by the popular rock band Foo Fighters that he wanted to slip into the conversation with Graeme, how many did he actually manage to mention? Some were obvious, some a little more obscure, but it was still fun nonetheless!
Only one entry per person permitted. The closing date for entries is midnight on 31st March 2022. No purchase necessary. In the event of a tie, the earliest correct answer will be declared the winner and we'll be in touch privately for contact details."
This podcast is produced by the Anomalous Podcast Network, in association with That UFO Podcast (@ufouapam)
How to get in touch;
Email: UnidentifiedAerialPodcast@gmail.com
Twitter: @ShadowsMagazine (Dave) or @Borders750 (Graeme)
@AnomalousPodNet
Competition details;
WIN a signed copy of Graeme Rendall's book 'UFOs Before Roswell - European Foo Fighters 1940-45. To be in with a chance of winning this fantastic historical resource all you have to do is follow Anomalous Podcast Network on twitter and retweet our competition post with your answer to the following question: Dave had a pre-determined list of 52 song titles by the popular rock band Foo Fighters that he wanted to slip into the conversation with Graeme, how many did he actually manage to mention? Some were obvious, some a little more obscure, but it was still fun nonetheless!
Only one entry per person permitted. The closing date for entries is midnight on 31st March 2022. No purchase necessary. In the event of a tie, the earliest correct answer will be declared the winner and we'll be in touch privately for contact details."
This podcast is produced by the Anomalous Podcast Network, in association with That UFO Podcast (@ufouapam)
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Anomalous Podcast Network
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Anomalous Podcast Network. Multiple voices, one phenomenon.
What are flying saucers and ghost-like radar objects?
00:00:14
Speaker
I'm here to discuss the so-called flying saucer. In Washington, ghost-like objects dart across the radar screen at the CAA Traffic Control Center at National Airport for several hours.
00:00:32
Speaker
You are interested in the unknown, the mysterious, the unexplainable. That is why you are here.
00:00:44
Speaker
You are about to experience the awe and mystery.
Meet the Hosts: Graham Randall and Dave Partridge
00:00:48
Speaker
Hello, everybody. This is another episode of Unidentified Aerial Podcast, part of the Anomalous Podcast Network. My name is Graham Randall. I'm an aviation historian, UFO researcher, and author of UFOs Before Roswell, European Foo Fighters 1940 and 1945, a book about Foo Fighters of World War II. And in this virtual studio, my co-host, Dave Partridge, editor of Shadows of Your Mind magazine. Hi, Dave. How are you doing?
00:01:14
Speaker
I agree, not too bad. Enjoying the sunshine. Yeah, and you've been busy redecorating, is that right? Yeah, you could say that. Yeah, feeling it now though. Looking forward to taking a break, to be honest.
00:01:29
Speaker
Good. Well, we've got a bit of a break here, so we're going to talk about UFOs for a little while.
What happened during the Los Angeles Air Raid of 1942?
00:01:33
Speaker
And today's episode, we're looking at an event from February 1942. So we're going back quite a long time, 80 years ago, to hear this. And it comes in different names. You may have heard it referred to as the Los Angeles Air Raid or the Battle of Los Angeles. And it comes in different names, but it is essentially a very, very strange
00:01:59
Speaker
occurrence that happened one night in February 1942 over Los Angeles. It is and I'm glad you clarified the year because I thought we were going to talk about the Battle of Los Angeles film that was released in 2011 which was terrible.
00:02:14
Speaker
or preferably the Rage Against the Machine album Battle of Los Angeles. Okay, well I never knew about the film, I certainly knew about the film and I had watched it and it was, yeah, so-so. No, this goes back, so this predates even the things I was more or less writing about in my Foo Fighters book, and it was a month before the infamous encounter that's depicted on the front of the book with a Wellington over Holland shooting at an amber disc,
00:02:39
Speaker
so this happened exactly a month before that particular incident and and this sort of it's one of those things that it's so buried in the history that people sort of sometimes forget that it actually happened and when they talk about Kenneth Arnold and the start of UFOs in 1947 this this instance conveniently forgot isn't it Dave? It is but you see that image of the spotlights over Los Angeles you know it's an iconic
00:03:05
Speaker
UFO community image. I mean people see that and they claim that you can see the craft highlighted by these you know eight or so spotlights coming in from the anti-aircraft positions in Los Angeles and I don't know why more people don't talk about it. I mean is it because it didn't happen? Is it because it did happen?
00:03:25
Speaker
We'll find out, I guess. Yeah, that's right. As I said, that is an iconic image.
Reviving Interest: Tim Goode's Above Top Secret
00:03:30
Speaker
I remember seeing that image 30 odd years ago, and it was the kind of thing that it was really. But you couldn't really find much more about the story. There didn't seem to be much written in books either.
00:03:41
Speaker
Again, it was one of these things that because it was so long ago and it predated Arnold and the accepted start of modern ufology, it almost just got like consigned to history and people didn't really write about it. And I remember reading books in the 70s and the 80s, which never covered it. And yet Tim Goode's book, Above Top Secret, when that came out in the
00:04:01
Speaker
about the early 90s, he had a section on it and that really reignited my interest in this particular incident. But again, it was still a case of not really finding that much about it until much more recently.
00:04:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Tim Goode, it's in Above Top Secret, I believe, the Timothy Goode book. And I think the only reason he included it was because it was mentioned as part of some documents received from Jamie Shandara, which included the infamous MJ-12 documents.
Can we trust the documents on extraterrestrial involvement?
00:04:39
Speaker
Within those documents, he found something called the Marshall Roosevelt memo, which was dated the 5th of March 1942, which claimed that two unidentified craft had been recovered after
00:04:54
Speaker
the Los Angeles air raid. One had crashed into the Pacific and was retrieved by the US Navy. Another crashed into the San Bernardino mountains. And at the time, this report or memo said that neither had a conventional explanation, but they were not earthly and were probably of an interplanetary origin.
00:05:14
Speaker
So has that document ever been corroborated from any other source or point? No, it was proven a joke later on. Yeah, there you go. So if it's linked to MJ-12, then it's going to be tracked with a lot of suspicion. Yeah, and I think Timothy did later admit that he'd been duped and that he put no substance in those documents anymore.
00:05:37
Speaker
But that doesn't necessarily mean that the Battle of Los Angeles didn't happen.
The California Atmosphere Post-Pearl Harbor
00:05:42
Speaker
In fact, there's a lot of information and evidence to suggest that something definitely anomalous happened that night. Honestly, I mean, it's the size of Los Angeles, isn't it?
00:05:57
Speaker
That's right. I mean, if an area, you know, an area took place, you have to set the scene because actually the night before or the day before or a day or two beforehand, there'd been an incident on one of the oil installations on the coast just nearby where a Japanese submarine had surfaced and it shell this installation with its deck gun. And it caused a little bit of damage, not much, but that was a pinprick raid in the overall scheme of things.
00:06:25
Speaker
but it was quite a propaganda kind of coup and it certainly got people around the Los Angeles basin area really scared and there was you know war nerves and all the rest of it so you can see there's this kind of freebile atmosphere that was building because of the outbreak of war Pearl Harbor had only happened a couple of months earlier
00:06:42
Speaker
and that caused shock waves throughout the U.S. military. And then here's like, you know, somewhere right next to the Los Angeles being attacked by a Japanese submarine. So, you know, you set the scene for possible things to happen that might have been blown out of all proportion or not. Yeah, I mean, you're talking about the Elwood oil field, aren't you? That's right. Just to make sense of Barbara. Yeah, apparently there was a local diner owner who was
00:07:08
Speaker
He heard explosions and ran out of his diner and saw all these shells coming towards the oil fields. It amazes me how a Japanese submarine could have gone that close.
00:07:22
Speaker
You have to remember early in the war it was still quite sort of a basic in terms of defence that the Americans hadn't really got their act together in terms of air defence nor naval defence and certainly for a lot of such a huge coastline such as America, radar was still in its infancy
00:07:43
Speaker
They had very primitive radars, which sometimes didn't see very far in terms of search. So you could only see a certain distance at sea level. But obviously, if an aircraft was much higher up because of the curvature of the Earth, the radars could see them at 20,000 feet much further out. But at sea level, you were lucky if you had 20-odd, 40 miles worth of coverage, not even that most of the time. So things could sneak up. And certainly underwater could sneak up.
00:08:10
Speaker
quite easily and get through, you know, whatever kind of, you know, sort of minefield defences or kind of escorting, you know, any submarine warfare vessels they had, if they actually had any at that time, and it was fairly easy. The kind of patrol aircraft they had to, you know, to watch for submarines, they didn't have that many of them, they were trying to use them out in the
00:08:33
Speaker
in the Philippines. They will have to use them on islands in Hawaii and other places in the Pacific, which the Americans still held. They will have to use them on the East Coast as well. So yeah.
00:08:44
Speaker
So I think, Rob, are we going to sit and crack a little bit about our own kind of take on this, or we're going to bring somebody in?
Insights from David Marlow on the Los Angeles Incident
00:08:53
Speaker
I think we should bring somebody in to talk about this as well, because, you know, as fun as listening to us two brow on and bounce off each other, I think someone who's done a load of research into this is Mr. David Marlow. Well, bring him in, shall we?
00:09:12
Speaker
Gentlemen, it's great to be here and joining you in this discussion. Yeah, thank you very much for joining us. I mean, you are our first guest. Every guest on this podcast, which is brilliant. Yeah, we've thought, you know, rather than us, you know, go back and forth about the Los Angeles air raid, we talked to somebody who's done some extensive research into it. And thank you very much for joining us.
00:09:34
Speaker
No, absolutely. It's one of those early cases in UFO history, but of course World War II history as well. And I'm always the first to preface that it's a genuine UFO in the sense that we really don't know what it was and probably never will, to be quite honest with you. There's a lot of prosaic explanations that have kind of been bandied about by researchers and the general public that I find that really none of them fit all of the details or all of the facts. Certainly
00:10:02
Speaker
Some explanations can be attributed to certain aspects, but it's a very intriguing case. Yeah. So when did you first start digging into it? Because with your triangle, your Facebook, I mean, that's very comprehensive. Sure. Well, I started looking into it probably about seven, eight years ago, albeit somewhat casually. And then the more I dug into it,
00:10:23
Speaker
And to be quite honest, once I got in touch with Barry Greenwood, who really did the lion's share of work back in the late 70s, early 80s, getting the declassified government documents as it pertains to this. And just like my triangular UFO research, I really try to base anything that I say based on the contemporaneous reports from 1942 as it relates to the newspaper articles, but also the government documents that Barry was able to acquire.
00:10:52
Speaker
Can you set the scene, David, about the time concern because we understand there was an attack on an oil facility either the night or the day beforehand and what the kind of atmosphere was like in that part of the world at that time? Absolutely. I mean, you know, to your question, we have to kind of take ourselves back to February 1942 and you know,
00:11:13
Speaker
It's interesting to look back on it through the lens of history, but to imagine what it was like to be living in California at that time, albeit just between two and a half, three months after the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941, the general mindset within the United States, and specifically on the West Coast, as it related to Washington State, Oregon, and California, was that it wasn't a matter of if the Japanese are going to attack the mainland. It was a question of when.
00:11:42
Speaker
So admittedly, there was a heightened state of anxiety at this time. And we have to keep in mind that along the California coast, subsequent to Pearl Harbor, there were a number of anti-aircraft gun emplacements that were positioned throughout the various cities. I've talked to a few individuals who said, I remember going to school every day and there was a gun emplacement right in our playground. And so peppered along the West Coast were all of these anti-aircraft batteries, military observers,
00:12:12
Speaker
and also radar. And that's one of the things that the skeptics never really touch on is the fact that this is a radar visual case. We had a visual sighting of an unidentified flying object, but we also had three radars that were trained on an inbound target for 120 miles moving towards the Los Angeles area that precipitated this series of events. But
00:12:35
Speaker
prior to the actual battle of LA, to your point, on that Monday they had at 7.05 p.m. a Japanese submarine surface just north of the Los Angeles area near Santa Barbara and it surfaced and fired several shells of gunfire off one of their platform guns and it actually was targeting an oil refinery, an Elwood oil refinery near Santa Barbara.
00:13:03
Speaker
And immediately after firing on this, the submarine submerged and went back out to the Pacific. And people think, well, perhaps the Battle of LA was tied to that. But in the 1970s, we have a letter from the first officer of that submarine who stated, after we fired on the oil refinery, we immediately went back out to the Pacific. And another prosaic explanation that's been attributed to the Battle of LA was the fact that
00:13:30
Speaker
this was a Japanese attack or at the very least a reconnaissance plane that might have been sent over the Los Angeles area. But subsequent to the end of World War II, we have official declarations by the Japanese military stating we had no military operations in or around the Los Angeles area on the morning of February 25, 1942. So
00:13:52
Speaker
Again, just like any UFO investigator should do, we start with the prosaic explanations and try to eliminate those until we're left with a truly genuine unidentified flying object. Oh, I'm sorry. Just one
Radar Detection and Debunking False Alarms
00:14:06
Speaker
second. I was going to ask one question there. You mentioned the radar. What kind of radars were they, and what were their capabilities? Bear in mind, this would be one of the first types of radar that the Americans would be using. Would that be right? There were two types of radar, and that's an excellent question.
00:14:21
Speaker
The SCR 268 was the first operational short range radar used by the United States Army at that time, but there was also the SCR 270, which was their first long range radar. A little point of history, which is interesting to note, the SCR 270 radar array
00:14:40
Speaker
was the same type of radar array in Hawaii that actually detected the Japanese planes coming in to attack Pearl Harbor. So just a little interesting historical side note. But I found it interesting going through the documents. I was unaware that this was actually a radar visual case until I again started to review the government documents provided by Barry Greenwood, who's now a dear friend and colleague.
00:15:04
Speaker
And it was interesting to note that, again, there were three radars trained on an unidentified object. We don't know what it was. I'm not saying it's extraterrestrial, as many people do. But they tracked it for 120 miles. And in the government documents, we even have the name of one of the radar operators that was tracking it. So when people say, well, we really don't have much information on this, there's an inch thick stack of documents
00:15:28
Speaker
courtesy of Barry Greenwood in his early FOIA requests that we can look at. But also I've been able to acquire original front page headlines and newspaper headlines from not just here in the United States, but even I have one from Canada that chronicled this event. And so
00:15:46
Speaker
you know, admittedly, as I stated at the beginning of our discussion, I don't think we'll ever know truly what it was. But when you take the documentation, the witness testimony from the newspapers, and you correlate that with the government documents, and then also, I tend to focus on documents as a historian, we can't negate the importance of the audio. And by that, the
00:16:11
Speaker
the famous CBS radio broadcast by Byron Palmer. It's interesting to note that his testimony in that radio broadcast correlates quite nicely with some of the government documentation as well as newspaper accounts of the time. And many people have attributed a weather balloon as an explanation for this. And I would agree, I have to be honest, I think that accounts for some of the reports from that morning.
00:16:37
Speaker
I don't think any one explanation accounts for everything. I think we have to concede a certain amount of hysteria at the time. We have to concede that a weather balloon was brought down and I say that because I have a newspaper account stating matter of fact that they did actually shred a weather balloon which came down and they verified it.
00:16:59
Speaker
But I don't think it accounts for the fact that we had an inbound radar target. Shortly thereafter, we have this object that apparently moved inland over the California area, not just the coastline. It then dropped down near Long Beach and approximately 20 minutes later, the same or similar object, we can't be definitive on this point, actually retraced its steps and essentially flew back the direction it came. And then it disappeared off the coast of Santa Monica.
00:17:28
Speaker
David would I be correct in saying that. There was a sequence of.
00:17:35
Speaker
kind of alert stages that Los Angeles went through. And, you know, they went, they got to the highest alert, you know, 15, 20 minutes after these things were spotted on the radar. And Los Angeles was actually under blackout conditions at the time. Correct. No, it's a really good point you bring up because it was a successive series of events, Dave. And in my lecture that I've given across the country here in the States, I take all of the government documents and I essentially lay out that timeline
00:18:04
Speaker
And to your point, once they went to, I believe, alert status green, essentially the anti-aircraft batteries were given permission to fire. And of course they did, over 1,270 rounds. There were three inch shells, 37 millimeter shells, and I believe 50 caliber rounds also that were fired at this object.
Casualties and Chaos from Anti-Aircraft Fire
00:18:25
Speaker
And of course there was a lot of shrapnel. Ironically, we're defending the West Coast, but I would argue our own forces did more damage than any Japanese could have done.
00:18:33
Speaker
with regards to the damage and the injuries. And all joking aside, there were six or seven people that actually did die that morning due to vehicular accidents, people trying to drive during the blackout, which is not exactly the most prudent thing to be doing. And of course, a series of heart attacks, people that were probably already prone to have heart attacks with a heightened sense of anxiety. So there was a lot going on. I mean, it truly was chaotic. And then it's interesting, though, because
00:19:02
Speaker
This was really just a little side note in World War II history. In fact, giving the lectures around the country over the last few years, I've had some amateur historians come up and say, you know what? I didn't even know this episode occurred. And certainly when I was in school, we never heard about this episode. So I found that to be interesting. But another aspect of this is we have multiple sightings of an unidentified object or objects. We have radar confirmation of a solitary object.
00:19:31
Speaker
And in addition, I think really this lends to why we're still talking about it to this day, this enigmatic photograph that exists of what appears to be some type of object in the convergence of searchlights.
The Photograph: Original vs. Enhanced
00:19:45
Speaker
And I had an interesting episode, and I always like to say this is where I'm an archivist. I love to acquire original historical documents and photographs, but this is where
00:19:56
Speaker
Being an archivist and being a researcher, this is where they really truly come together because we didn't know much about the photograph, to be quite honest. Over the decades, people thought that this was photographed by a Los Angeles Times photographer.
00:20:11
Speaker
But in the course of looking for historical items, and I wish I could give you a fanciful romantic story of how I acquired this through secret sources, but I actually found an original photo on eBay and it had all of the hallmarks of an original vintage newswire photo. It had the original news teletype and it was stamped February 25th, 1942.
00:20:34
Speaker
Now, admittedly, over the years, though, I've acquired many other such newswire photographs. So I know the earmarks to look for to know that it was legitimate. And long story short, I bid on the photograph, I obtained it, and it started a dialogue with the seller. And of course, my number one question is, I'm sure you and your audience are asking, well, how did this guy get a hold of this photograph after all these decades?
00:20:59
Speaker
He lived in the greater Los Angeles area. And he admitted that my wife and I habitually go to yard sales and estate sales. On a particular Saturday, there was one only about three miles from where they lived. And his wife was deeply immersed in all the merchandise that was there. And his attention was drawn to a series of two long file boxes that were quite literally sitting on the grass underneath a folding table. So he crouches down.
00:21:27
Speaker
And he starts leafing through these obviously very old file folders and he starts pulling them out randomly. And in each file folder was a photograph from circa early 1940s to approximately late 1950s. Hollywood
00:21:43
Speaker
you know, stars, World War II photos, just a myriad of different types of photographs. And on the back of each was the original news teletype. So naturally, he asked the woman that was in charge of the yard sale, ma'am, if you don't mind me asking, where did you obtain these photographs? Naively, she states, Oh, those belong to my grandfather. He was a photographer with the Associated Press.
00:22:09
Speaker
Wow. So this was a portfolio, if you will, of the photographs that he took during the 1940s, 1950s. And fast forward, I actually got in touch with the family and they were able to provide me with photographs of his press badges, photographs of the gentleman, but the grandfather's name was Ira Goldner.
00:22:30
Speaker
And I was able to obtain some photographs of him taking photos with his camera of other events. There was one with a Hollywood producer that he was taking pictures of. There was a humorous one where he actually got knocked over. He was trying to take a picture of a third baseman catching the baseball and the pitcher fell over and knocked him off. And someone was able to snap that picture. So after all these decades,
00:22:55
Speaker
suddenly we have this gentleman entering the picture. And it's an interesting series of coincidence or synchronicities, whatever you want to attribute it to. I was doing a program with the Smithsonian Channel who just the day before was in Los Angeles doing a segment on the Battle of LA. And my friend Ben Hanson was the researcher that they followed. They went to the photographic archives of the Los Angeles Times. And Simon Elliott was the archivist at that time.
00:23:24
Speaker
And the producer was ecstatic when he saw my photograph on the wall and I told him the story. And he said, I've got to show you this footage. I know we're here to talk about triangles and your research on triangles, but we quite literally were just at the archives yesterday and we filmed this segment. And I have it now as part of my lecture that I give. But they went in to talk to him about the original negative. And they pulled out the original negative at the Los Angeles Times and completely unscripted.
00:23:53
Speaker
Simon Elliott on camera. And they even left this in the final cut, which I was surprised because he looks right at the camera, which obviously you never do when you're doing filming and interviews. He looked and he goes, you know, there's an interest in curiosity. I've never noticed this before. He said all of the Los Angeles Times photographs, the tens of thousands that he curates, the negatives all have a notch code. And I believe it's a double triangular notch code in the upper right hand corner.
00:24:19
Speaker
these back at that time denoted the type of film that it was. So you could immediately look at a negative, cross-reference it with the index and know what it was. He said, I've never noticed this before. This is a curiosity. He goes, this doesn't have the characteristic notch code that all the other photographs have. And they asked him, well, what does that mean? And he said, it's suggestive that it was not taken by an LA Times photographer.
00:24:45
Speaker
which completely correlated with my information that it was in fact an associated press photographer that took it. So it was just an interesting series of coincidences how this all came together. And we started kind of piecing this together and I think formulating a clear picture of who took the photograph and how that whole story developed.
00:25:06
Speaker
Sorry, just a question here. Just to take you back to the radar and also to the event itself. You mentioned about how far away it was detected. It would have been presumably fairly high up in that case because the curvature of the earth and how far radar could see at sea level. But what height was it also estimated to be at over Los Angeles? Because the effective height of a 37 millimeter gun would not be that high either compared to which one of the bigger anti-aircraft guns.
00:25:35
Speaker
Absolutely and again great question. They really don't get into any type of height finder radar as far as altitude and even to your point gram with regard to the altitude of the object that is a big question mark.
00:25:53
Speaker
have a limited range, obviously. But when we look at the photograph, it looks as though, and I admit it's a two dimensional object, we can't read too much into this, we have to be very careful when we're looking at a photograph, the explosions, the white dots that were captured at the moment the photographer snapped the shutter
00:26:12
Speaker
appears to show either explosions on the object or in front of the object. Again, because we're dealing with a two-dimensional image, we can't definitively state that. But it does appear, at least at the moment the photograph was taken, there were explosions that were occurring relative to the same altitude. But to your point, was it 2,000 feet, 200 feet? We just simply don't know.
00:26:38
Speaker
We have documents, but unfortunately the documents don't tell a detailed story. There's gaps. There's information that we would love to glean, but we're just limited by the limited information that is contained in there. And that is the fundamental question that I've asked.
00:26:54
Speaker
I've tried to find in the documents, and there aren't any, and I've been trying to locate these through other sources. I think one of the most important questions related to altitude, to your question, we need winds aloft data. What directions and what speeds were the winds at stratified levels that morning?
00:27:13
Speaker
short of actually going to the museum there and seeing if they have that, which I haven't had the money or the time to do, that would be the next step. And if anyone that's listening knows a way that we can obtain that historical weather data, I looked online through most of the website services and they don't go back that far. And if they do, they typically only have the temperature, the mean, the high temperature and the low temperature. They don't have stratified winds aloft data, unfortunately, but that is another missing piece, Graham.
00:27:44
Speaker
Going back to the photograph, it's been suggested that back in the day when it came to touching up photographs ready for print, they'd paint on the actual negatives. And it's been suggested that
00:27:59
Speaker
This photograph was taken at the exact time of the convergence of eight different spotlights. And the beams were enhanced using white paint, and then it was kind of overexposed as well, which gave the impression of something within that convergence.
00:28:14
Speaker
Exactly. Well, you're partially right on that. Yes, the famous photo that most people look at has been retouched. And in my lecture, I clearly delineate the touched versus the original, you know, the the doctored photo, if you will.
00:28:32
Speaker
But to your point, it wasn't done for nefarious reasons. This was common practice for the newspapers of the time. What's interesting about that, though, is the fact that I've actually been able to obtain a high resolution scan of the original negative courtesy of Ben Hanson, who, as I mentioned, was at the archive. He was able to get a very high resolution image of that. And as I state
00:28:55
Speaker
with all due respect to the people that love this case uh the the doctored photo is great for print and great for entertainment purposes but from an evidentiary standpoint it you cannot rely on that at all we have to go back to the original negative i cannot emphasize that enough and i see as i'm sure you do and your audience does people commenting on the doctored photo on the internet
00:29:19
Speaker
and we have to go back to the original negative, to your point. And even the original photo, real quick, Dave, even the original photo I have from that morning is the doctored photo. So it's great to have that historical piece, but you can't use it as evidence. But to your point, the original negative, if you do just basic contrast and light enhancement,
00:29:42
Speaker
you do see still those search lights that appear to be converging on an object. And a couple points if I may, people say, well, it's simply artifact from the convergence of the search lights. But the one thing I like to point out, and I would be willing to agree with that, because we even have another photograph from that morning where there truly was, and the newspapers even stated it created a wigwam.
00:30:04
Speaker
of lighting effects. The distinction, though, we can use that other photo from that morning and compare it to the famous photo, again, the negative image, I should say. What's interesting is those searchlights terminate at the central point. They don't continue on. They don't crisscross. More specifically, looking at the original negative, I found it extremely interesting. And I must preface, I'm not a photographic expert. So let me just say that upfront.
00:30:33
Speaker
But I think even just using basic contrast and light enhancement, you notice that you can trace from the ground these search lights that are hitting an apparent target that seems to be at the central location. I found it interesting to note that off of the object at a slight angle approximately like this, we see a light that appears to be starting from the object going off at an oblique angle.
00:31:03
Speaker
Now, the interesting thing about that is the density is much brighter at the object, and it tends to dissipate as it moves away. And if you look at the angle of one of the searchlight beams, I would argue, and again, a photographic expert would need to weigh in conclusively on this, it appears to be a reflected beam off of the object.
00:31:26
Speaker
Well, because if you take if you take that that beam and you try to trace it back, the distance away from the object would be too far for a searchlight. It actually would be a point off of the the entire image itself. And so that I found to be extremely interesting. So not only is it an object, it appears to be light reflective in nature.
Eyewitness Testimony: Object in the Sky
00:31:48
Speaker
And then, of course, I have talked to a couple witnesses that have since died. One was actually an engineer for Northrop, who I used to see at UFO conferences back in the 1990s. And I did a display of some of my newspapers I had at the time. And he said, he goes, Oh, I've seen that. I said, Oh, you've seen it on documentaries? He goes, No, I lived in California, I got up that morning with my mother, we heard and I and I had known this man for a number of years. So it wasn't just some random stranger coming out of the blue telling me this.
00:32:14
Speaker
He said, we woke up to the sound of air raid sirens and explosions. And we ran out to the front yard. We didn't see anything. Then we ran out to the backyard. And he goes, for lack of a better term, what you see captured in that photo is what we saw. We saw something. And Mike was, his name was Mike. Mike was a very pragmatic individual engineer that worked for Northrop, as I mentioned.
00:32:39
Speaker
He said, admittedly, I am not saying what it was. All I'm telling you is there was something in the convergence of those lights. Now what it was, I don't know. So it's interesting that we also have these eyewitnesses that testify to that.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah, because some of the witnesses say they saw a Zeppelin or they saw a number of planes in a V formation flying over the city. But this could have also been kind of hysteria and paranoia going back to Pearl Harbor. Exactly, David. And you're absolutely right, because as I alluded to earlier, the Japanese stated they had no military planes over California on that morning.
00:33:13
Speaker
But equally so, we have a letter through, again, the efforts of Barry Greenwood, I can't give him enough credit, between two army generals. And they stated that we had no planes up at the time. And it's not that the US Army was completely impotent, but you have to understand, and it states, in fact, I've got it right here, if I can just read a quick passage, because I think this is very telling for people. I think it was a military plane. This was General John DeWitt, two Major General A.D. Searles, he states,
00:33:43
Speaker
The question has been asked several times why the pursuits were not sent up, the US planes. The reason was that we didn't have much pursuit. We had 15 planes in three different places, a total of 45 that was defending the West Coast. If that was a reconnaissance, meaning the object that they were tracking, preceding a carrier, we did not want to have our pursuit in the air half out of gas when the main attack came in. We didn't want to take the chance.
00:34:09
Speaker
So it wasn't that they didn't have pilots in planes, fueled and ready to go. They didn't want to be premature in dispatching those planes into the air, because it doesn't stay. But either based on the visual sightings or the radar, they thought that that was a reconnaissance plane. That was the vanguard. Pray much of an attack. So they still puked off 1400 rounds.
00:34:31
Speaker
Yes, they still did, absolutely. And what's interesting about this, even, you know, we can, you know, bandy about and talk about this case decades later. The interesting thing that I think adds the mystery to this, it's not just a bunch of gullible, wide eyed UFO believers that have kind of kept the story alive. The fact of the matter is, there never was one conclusive explanation for this.
00:34:54
Speaker
There was the jittering war nerves, which was put forth by Knox, the Navy Secretary, but Henry Stimson, Secretary of War, stated there was an attack and there were objects over the California coast. Those two explanations were never rectified. And so, you know, nature abhors a vacuum. In absence of a solid conclusive answer, it's just kind of left that open for interpretation and speculation for many, many decades.
00:35:25
Speaker
So I've written a book last year about the Foo Fighters. Would you say this was a Foo Fighter or something that was kind of allied to that phenomenon? Because people ask me that occasionally. I don't know if we can correlate the two. You know, I mean, certainly 42 preceded, you know, the quote unquote Foo Fighter wave. And you would know more in that gram than myself.
00:35:47
Speaker
But I don't know if we can categorize it as a foo fighter, but certainly it fell into that 1940s era series of unidentified flying objects. But I don't know if I'd have to have something more conclusive before I could say that we could correlate those two.
00:36:04
Speaker
But do you think, I mean, have you come across when the first mention of it potentially being an interplanetary or extraterrestrial craft came into being? Absolutely. I mean, UFOs haven't been invented. No, you're absolutely
1960s Revival as a UFO Case
00:36:20
Speaker
right. And real quick, Dave, before I answer that, it's interesting when you look again at the government documents. And I always I always like to, you know, when I have opinions or statements, I like to anchor it to something. It's not just me arbitrarily making statements and conclusions.
00:36:35
Speaker
It's interesting when you look at the notes from the meeting where they were trying to assess and summarize what the hell happened over California, because they were being pressured not only from their colleagues in the military, but FDR, Franklin Delano Roosevelt was demanding answers. What the hell was going on here? It's interesting as you look, they, like UFO investigators, tried to systematically find explanations for what caused this.
00:37:04
Speaker
And when you look at the thinking of the time, to your point, Dave, because we weren't thinking UFOs, flying saucers, or for that matter, gram-fu fighters, whatever those would be, they stated that it couldn't have been an airplane because it was moving too slow. Therefore, it must have been some type of balloon. But I would argue if we were faced with the same military case today with
00:37:29
Speaker
the post-UAP Pentagon report, they would probably lump this under other, that category other. But they didn't. It was almost like, well, it couldn't have been an airplane because it moved too fast. Therefore, by de facto, it must have been a balloon. But I would argue that with all of the ordnance being thrown at this thing, any balloon would have been shredded, either due to a direct hit or just due to the shrapnel.
00:37:56
Speaker
You see similar reasoning through the Second World War through some of the, well not the Foo Fighters reports, some of the daylight sightings that occurred in 43. You see the same intelligence reasoning that they try and sort of whittle it down from one thing, no, it can't be that to this. And yeah, I've seen those kind of reports before. Absolutely. So I think we have this other variable or this other answer that comes into play. But I'm sorry, Dave, what was the original question?
00:38:26
Speaker
I wanted to preface by saying that. Oh yeah, when was the first occasion of this being reported as a UFO? Yes, thank you. There was an article written by a gentleman named Kenneth Larson in the 1960s. I believe it was 66 or 67. And that not only rekindled interest in this little episode, which again, as I mentioned,
00:38:48
Speaker
The World War II just plotted on. We were still fighting the Germans. We were still fighting the Japanese. And so as dramatic as this sounds, it was quickly forgotten just in the course of the Pacific Theater what was going on. Obviously, what would lead to what was going on in Europe with Americans because
00:39:09
Speaker
Pearl Harbor, of course, was what ushered us into World War II and our involvement, much to Churchill's delight, because Churchill had been wanting us to step in. And we were somewhat hesitant. The American mindset was that we didn't want to go into another World War. But I think in the scheme of history,
00:39:31
Speaker
that it was good that we finally were brought in to assist the British in their fight with the Nazis in World War II. I think that's important to note. But Kenneth Larson did a two-page spread in a flying saucer's magazine. And again, if it wasn't for the photograph, I don't think we'd be talking about this today, but that photograph seems to really solidify people's curiosity and interest in this case.
00:39:59
Speaker
And it was at that point in the 60s, it was postulated, well, maybe this could be a UFO or a flying saucer that predated the quote unquote modern era starting in 47. And it was from there that then it kind of took off. My first exposure, to be honest with you, though, was when I read Timothy Good's book, Above Top Secret. I think that's the first time that I had actually seen the image and
00:40:25
Speaker
Admittedly, though, Timothy had a very, very poor copy of the photograph. And in fact, you know, it was interesting when the producer came to my home. I thought I saw it sitting back there, Graham. I thought I saw it right there on the bookshelf.
Critique on Unverified Documents and Conspiracies
00:40:42
Speaker
What's interesting is when the producer came in, he was enamored with the fact, and there we go. That was the first time I had seen the famous photograph.
00:40:51
Speaker
And, but I was happy to see the producer. He was delighted when he saw my original photograph because he said, this is clearer than anything that I've seen on the internet. And so he was happy to see that. But again, I had to caution him that it's not the original image. Again, we have to go back to that negative. And I've actually blown up a poster size image off of the original negative. And when people come here and look at all of my files and newspapers, I say,
00:41:18
Speaker
I know that photograph captures your interest, but this is the one you need to be looking at, the original negative. You say it's strange that it didn't sort of capture the public mood even just after the war, and yet there weren't that many attacks on American soil beyond, say, Pearl Harbor and some of the isolated Pacific outposts. I know the Aleutian Islands were invaded. I know there was a Japanese attack in September 1942.
00:41:39
Speaker
over Oregon, over the forests, with a float plane that dropped bombs, and then of course you have the fugo balloon bombs as well. But in the overall scheme of things there wasn't that many in terms of attacks on the American mainland, were there?
Significance of the Los Angeles Incident in WWII
00:41:53
Speaker
So you thought it might have resonated more, especially it was such a big event and captured the kind of mood of Americans at that time.
00:42:00
Speaker
And I'm glad you brought that up, Graham, because people have often used the fugo balloon as an explanation. The problem is the fugo balloons came about two years later. They weren't around in 1942. So that, again,
00:42:12
Speaker
Some of these explanations people arbitrarily throw out there, I mean, definitively. I mean, we can't use something as an explanation if it didn't exist at that time. So there's certain things we can definitively cross off the list. But as I mentioned, what it was, we'll probably never know. But I would argue it's an early classic case of a UFO, unidentified flying object, supported with radar, supported with tens of thousands of witnesses
00:42:38
Speaker
and supported with this enigmatic photograph that we still have today. Yeah. I've got one final question. I don't know if Graham has one after, and then we'll let you go and thank you so much for, you know, this has been immensely entertaining. Oh, absolutely. It's just been so informative. What do you make of the reports that something crashed or was shot down and then recovered?
00:43:05
Speaker
I can't be kind on this, completely spurious. Unlike a lot of UFO researchers, I do not put any import on documents that do not have an established provenance.
Why is the Battle of Los Angeles still unexplained?
00:43:26
Speaker
And the people that have really promoted that are the woods. And I don't know them personally. I'm sure they're very nice gentlemen. But they purport to be document experts, which they're not. This is a fact. They're not document experts. That's not their living. That's not how they earned a reputation. And they put a lot of import in documents that I would not give the time of day or hang any significance to.
00:43:55
Speaker
But unfortunately has fueled the conspiracy theorists to then add an element to a case, which I would argue is fascinating in and of itself. We don't need to throw in elements to dramatize it or to muddy the water any more than it already is. And the documents that attribute to us shooting an object down and it being retrieved, I find no value in whatsoever. If someone can prove me wrong, please do.
00:44:22
Speaker
But if you can't tell me where a document came from, I'm not going to put any level of importance. And Graham, you know this from your research on Foo Fighters. You went to the military archives. I can tell you where Barry Greenwood got these documents. Graham can do the same with this Foo Fighter research. These people that put a level of importance on these documents cannot tell you where they came from. So I argue
00:44:45
Speaker
If you can't tell me where they came from, you can't tell me that they're of any significance. Yeah, that's true. So one final question, Dave, if you don't mind. You mentioned about the submarine captain who was involved in the Elwood incident, saying that as far as he was concerned, there was no Japanese involvement. Did the Americans contact the Japanese military authorities after the final surrender to ask them either informally or formally about whether they knew of any involvement that could have explained this?
00:45:14
Speaker
I may be wrong on my memory here, Graham, but I don't remember Barry Greenwood's documents attesting to that, any official communication. However, approximately 20 years after that, there were a number of retrospective newspaper articles done in California where they indirectly mentioned that US authorities did contact the Japanese as it related to the event
00:45:39
Speaker
and they denied any military involvement. But unfortunately nothing beyond that that I can recall in the way of official documentation. Yeah, that resonates with me with the Foo Fighters because the Americans did exactly the same with the Germans with German scientists and German Luftwaffe anti-aircraft officials and they denied knowledge of the whole thing as well. So yeah, that's exactly the same sort of thing.
00:46:02
Speaker
Absolutely. And I do have some information I think might help your research, Graham, that I'll have to talk to you about regarding the Foo Fighters. That's wonderful. Thank you, Dave. Well, as I said, David, it's been fantastic to have you on today and talk about a case which, like you said, nobody knows what they were firing at. Yeah. Yeah. I think if you definitively say what it was, you're not only lying to yourself, but you're lying to other people. But it does
00:46:28
Speaker
fall into that category, as I mentioned, of a classic UFO. It certainly does. Thank you very much, David. It's been a pleasure to have you on. Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you. That was brilliant.
David Marlow's Comprehensive UFO Archive
00:46:39
Speaker
Our first guest, and what a guest to start off that part of the show from. David de Marlin.
00:46:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna have anybody on who knows the historical documentation behind any then it's going to be David Marlowe. I mean, I don't know if you've seen pictures of his archive in his office. He's got files, he's got all the old Kufa stuff, the nine cap stuff, the, you know, he's got
00:47:07
Speaker
It's the row upon row of filing cabinets, and you just seem to be adding to them. He's got a special wing built on his house, it might as well be. And it's a research room for people, and he invites people to come along and do. It's fantastic. The times I've seen it pictured on documentaries and on the unidentified, it's just superb. Well, it's not just hard copies either. He's got like microfiche. Oh, no. Audio spools. He's got loads.
00:47:36
Speaker
Anyway, back to the Battle of LA. Are you any clearer on what you think it is, Greg? No, I'm not. I have to sort of align myself with David's reasoning and what he's coming up with. It was a true unidentified, but what it was, I don't know either, this far forward in history. I don't think he's right in what he says that nobody is going to really know definitively what it was.
00:47:59
Speaker
There's elements of, yes, balloons may have been involved in a very small part of the overall event, but they were something separate. But as to what was picked up on radar and flew in from the sea and then flew back out again, picked it again, you know, what detected the radar, nobody's going to know what that was. And of course, everything that's been prosaic has been ruled out. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one thing I did want to mention, which I didn't get to was
00:48:27
Speaker
We have the original negative. We have the touched up negative that appeared in the LA Times in 1942. But that, there was another negative. I don't know if it's the one they retouched, but it was further retouched in 1949. And I think, I don't know whether that is the one that we see that gives the outline of a craft or not.
00:48:50
Speaker
I think at this point now there's probably so many different types of the photograph and you say that they've been retouched and they've been retouched again. I think David was right in saying that you have as a historian and to actually eliminate a lot of the stuff that goes around these images. You've got to go back to the original because that's the only one that really counts. It doesn't matter what kind of retouching you've done, what kind of editing you've done in a picture, it's not this original image.
00:49:16
Speaker
And you need that image to look at and to analyze in order to get any more information out of it. Retouched images, they're no
Challenges with Altered Photographs and Documents
00:49:24
Speaker
good, really. It's the same as documents. As he says, if you haven't got a provenance for a document, you've got no context that it falls under, then they're worse and useless because anybody can make up something like that and pretend it's a real document. It has to be able to be tracked back to its source. You have to know where it came from and in what context it sits. And that's something I appreciate as a writer and a historian and as a researcher.
00:49:46
Speaker
Yeah I mean and as for those wags who have photoshopped in the gimbal object into those spotlights I mean that's yeah well never mind then passing that off as the original saying oh look it just looks just like the gimbal yeah because you've just photoshopped it in. Exactly I mean there's no description of what it looked like back then as far as I'm aware it was an object that was possibly nobody saw it.
00:50:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. They just saw what they're basing this kind of what they see is on the pictures.
00:50:17
Speaker
And maybe other people saw a balloon that night because, as David said, a balloon did come down. It was shredded by the aircraft fire. So maybe that's what some people that they saw, they said they saw, did actually observe. Yeah. And because L.A. was under blackout conditions as well, there was no radio broadcast going on at the time. So people are carrying in their houses thinking it's a Japanese invasion or, you know, they're just waiting for the bombs to hit, basically. That's right. And of course, then seeing things or seeing waves of aircraft coming over and all the rest of it.
00:50:46
Speaker
Yeah. So nobody's going to be listening. You know, nobody's going to be looking at the windows because, you know, if you got black, because you've seen documents from World War Two and obviously we have a big history of black acts in this country during World War Two. You don't even peek at the curtain. Well, my parents lived through the World War Two. My mum used to tell me about hiding in the air raid shelter on the phone. So she was where she lived.
00:51:12
Speaker
because the Germans were coming over and bombing the anti-aircraft guns at the bottom of the farm. So, you know, I know about that kind of thing. And Medard was in Newcastle at the time, and he was in an air raid shelter for the same purpose. They didn't look, as you say, the last thing you would do is come outside and watch what was going on, unless of course you were an air raid warden. Absolutely, and if you're an air raid warden, you don't even dare to lay up a cigarette deal.
00:51:36
Speaker
What do you do? You don't put lights on to start with. But what I found interesting was like the day after, I mean the guns all stopped around seven in the morning. So everyone could take stock of what had actually happened and as daylight comes you can see
00:51:53
Speaker
Basically, the damage that was inflicted by the 1,400 rounds or so. And there were some unexploded bombs in the street, you know, munitions. Yeah, the army had to come in. Yeah, they had to come and clear those. The streets were... Shroubled that was on the side of houses. Yeah. And like I said, there were five or six casualties, two of them are attacked, I believe. You know, there was no... You know, there was just nothing to see the day after apart from
00:52:23
Speaker
debris and the cleanup from the. Well, that's right. It was it was effectively the same as you would have seen in a European city after the day after an air raid, apart from the devastation that the bombs caused. And that would be the only difference.
00:52:37
Speaker
because you know the European cities like Germany and also in Britain we were firing you know anti-aircraft shells up in the air of German bombers they were firing the same at our bombers and of course that what goes up comes back down again and usually in the form of shrapnel from an anti-aircraft like a flak burst that shrapnel does fall back down to earth so it's you know invariably yes
00:53:00
Speaker
property buildings would be damaged by this this this rain of metal coming back down especially in a city the size of los angeles yeah i mean was a fan hilarious well not hilarious but
00:53:12
Speaker
was that when the air raid signs were going off, you had some citizens of Los Angeles going outside and firing their rifles into the sky and that thing, just in the hope that they downed a Japanese bomber or whatever. I've heard those stories before and it's futile, but it's almost laughable. But again, it's almost understandable in the circumstances as well because people want to think they were doing something. But what I did find, you know,
00:53:39
Speaker
When I was researching this event a while back, I came across some pictures at the University of Southern California. If you type in Los Angeles Air Raid 1942, you will get some pictures of kind of like the day after. So you get, you know, the military and the police picking up this rattle and, you know, cordoning off streets to deal with the unexploded bombs.
00:54:06
Speaker
People forget about the human anime. It's not about what was seen in the sky. It's what happened in the aftermath of it a couple of days after as well. Yeah, these kind of events, I mean, people sort of shrugged off the sort of battle of Los Angeles as being, oh, just a hoax and being war nerves and all the rest of it.
Impact on Military Policy and Public Morale
00:54:22
Speaker
But it did take its toll on the city. That kind of event and that kind of scare would have a lasting effect on people's morale and on people's nerves and also change policy.
00:54:34
Speaker
you know, people who have an effect in terms of the defences, there would be people who would, you know, soldiers and generals and majors and all the rest of it, probably be sort of, you know, having harsh words about how prepared they were for this kind of thing and all this kind of thing. So we'd have ramifications later on.
00:54:51
Speaker
But what they were, we probably won't know in any great detail, but David was right about what he said about the fact that there was no fighters in the air. There's actually one question I was going to ask, but it got answered before I had a chance, is that they were scared that that was only a prelude to a full scale, either attack or an invasion.
00:55:10
Speaker
And they were husbanding their fighter aircraft, limited in numbers that they were. Because you have to remember that the Americans were fighting out in the Pacific. And they had aircraft had to be stationed at Hawaii and some other islands in the Pacific and also in the Philippines. They were fighting a war against the Japanese. So they had very few aircraft for the defense of the continental United States at that time, because they also had to defend the East Coast as well against the German raiders and German submarines. So they were very thinly spread.
00:55:40
Speaker
Um, and of course, you know, there was a reason that was the reason why they couldn't send them up because if they send them up Then they would be caught with their pants down effectively if anything happened straight afterwards Because those aircraft only had a limited amount of fuel and a limited amount of ammunition on board as well And the last thing you wanted to do is caught back on the ground when you're trying to refuel and re-harm Exactly. I mean we've seen that like in Cases we've already spoken about the p50 Yeah Yeah, you know their range wasn't great
00:56:10
Speaker
in the grand scheme of things, you can't justify flying up and seeing what's going on if you had needed to fly up two hours later. Yeah, that's true. They only have a certain amount of hours flying time. And in most of those cases that you're speaking of, they'd already been on a mission, on a training flight, and they were coming back to base. And then this happened. The other happens. They've got a limited amount of fuel, a limited amount of endurance. And yes, that curtails their activities. It does.
00:56:38
Speaker
Now, one thing I did find interesting that David did say was that there was no real reports about this. You know, it's not taught as part of American World War II history. Now, do you think that's because the UFO subject is hijacked?
UFO Stigmatization in WWII History
00:56:54
Speaker
I think in the current climate, I think that's possible since you mentioned 66 when it first got into more of a mainstream sort of view. And I think if, probably in the 1970s and maybe 1980s when it became a little bit more prominent and probably people start reading about it before Tim Goode
00:57:13
Speaker
you know, included in it above top secret in the end of the 1980s early 1990s. I think, yes, because it was hand in hand with the UFO issue and it had that kind of label attached to it, that probably sent a lot of people running and think, oh, no, it's got nothing to do with us. We're not going to include it in mainstream wartime history.
00:57:33
Speaker
because it's just some kind of, you know, it's nonsense, it's belongs to the Tinfoil Helmer Brigade. But also, these things do get hidden, you know, they do get lost in the documents as well. And because there may not be a huge amount of documentation regarding it, you know, directly,
00:57:49
Speaker
apart from the histories of the time, people may not be that interested or they just may not be aware of it. Some of the stuff I found in the Foo Fighters, you know, kind of in the war diaries, that stuff has been there and people have written about these units over the years in just a normal sense about wartime activities.
00:58:08
Speaker
but then and they very rarely touch on these you know sort of other aspects so you can see why these things don't necessarily gain traction because they're just outside people's kind of interests and you know outside their kind of purview in terms of writing about things and you probably wouldn't get past an editor of a standard wartime history book if you're going to fill a couple of pages or a few lines about this they'll probably just edit it out. Yeah I mean imagine it being in BBC History magazine. Well exactly.
00:58:36
Speaker
No chance. No, 14 times, yes, but yes, we're probably not. So maybe I should write them an article. You should. I've got the editor's email, so I'll drop you. Oh, well, there you go. There's my job for the Easter weekend. Sorry, Graham.
00:58:57
Speaker
Anyway, how is the writing going? It's going fine.
Upcoming Projects Teaser
00:59:02
Speaker
They may well be a new project to be unveiled by the end of this month, hopefully, if everything falls correctly. So we'll see. But I'm not telling anybody anything more about it at the moment. Brilliant. And that means that I can finally close my project.
00:59:18
Speaker
as if people don't know last august i made the decision to close shadowview my magazine and do something different yeah which i mentioned on the chat we had with vinny um a disclosure team you did that's right but yeah looking forward to that good um more details forthcoming and i think that's it for today isn't it Graham unless you've got anything more that you wish to add
Reflecting on Insights from David Marlow
00:59:44
Speaker
No, I've had a thoroughly enjoyable time and David was an excellent guest and much better than the two of us trying to work our way through the history and all the subterfuge and all this that and the other about the role of Los Angeles. Get an expert on.
01:00:00
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And it might be something we do in the future as well. Yeah, we have we have some ideas about who we might want to ask about some other things we want to talk about in the future. But in the meantime, yeah, that's been another episode of unidentified aerial podcast.
01:00:17
Speaker
Thank you very much, Graham. I guess people can get in touch with us through anomalous podnet, is it? I believe so. Or they can contact us directly through our own Twitter addresses. Mine is at border 750, and yours is? At Shadows Magazine, but that will be taken offline at the end of the month. Possibly you'll be able to tell people where they can reach you after that. Yeah, they can't. They can't. No, I'm joking.
01:00:47
Speaker
Fair enough. Any ideas for next episode? Well, maybe we should, bear in mind we're still dealing with the 1940s and actually before Kenneth Arnold. We've still got loads. Yeah, maybe for an idea, although we'll probably have an idea ourselves or the next one, but maybe we should ask our audience as to what they might want to hear about as well. Or is that a step too far?
01:01:15
Speaker
Well, as long as they don't say Roswell, because that's... No. It has to be... It has to predate the ghost rockets of 1946, because we have an idea about that already, about who we want to talk about. Yeah. To talk about the subject with. Might have one from 1943. Ooh. No names, no pectoral? No.
01:01:38
Speaker
I'm not saying the word. OK. Well, if anybody wants to suggest things we might want to talk about, then we're all ears. So get in touch with us if you like. Yeah. Brilliant.
Conclusion and Engagement with Anomalous Podcast Network
01:01:49
Speaker
And I guess that's it for this week. Unidentified Aero Podcast is part of the Anominous Podcast Network along with Disclosure Team and Quantum Witch Cafe. Yeah. So thanks again for listening and we'll catch you next time. OK. See you then. Bye.
01:02:08
Speaker
I am here to discuss the so-called flying saucer. In Washington, ghost-like objects dart across the radar screen at the CAA Traffic Control Center at National Airport for several hours. You are interested in the unknown, the mysterious, the unexplainable. That is why you are here.
01:02:38
Speaker
You are about to experience the awe and mystery.