Transcript
Danny Price: Hey everyone, welcome to episode 18 of the Table Talk Recap Podcast. This week we're going over the the sermon that Shane preached on one body. um So we're still in Ephesians, we're in Ephesians 4, working through that pretty slowly.
Danny Price: And I think, how many more messages, Shane, in Ephesians 5, you said?
shane: ah Five.
Danny Price: Four? Five.
shane: i'm I'm pretty sure, yeah, I've got to knock down five unless make some sort of change.
Danny Price: Cool. Last minute. Yeah, so we're working through it slowly, which has been fun. It's really cool to go deep in a book. um Is there anything from the sermon before we get into the questions, anything that you wanted to um reiterate or anything?
shane: um Not really reiterate. One thing I feel like we didn't get, I didn't, have a lot of time for was just, you know, towards the end, you know, when he says, ever I think it's verse 18, he talks about being, you know, every joint being held together, and, um you know, if you dig into that a little bit, you know, it's a pretty cool picture, um and I just didn't have time to dig into that picture of, you know,
Danny Price: Hmm. Hmm.
shane: when your joints, when you're aren't working and your limb ligaments aren't holding your piece body together. Um, it's, it's hindered in a huge way.
shane: And, uh, so it just, I think it's a great picture he, he used, um, about how we need to be held together. We don't just do our work. We don't just do our, you know, like you can't really do your work well if you're not in unity.
shane: And so I didn't have a lot of time to go into that, but, um, I just, I think it's a great wood word picture Paul uses there.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, that's accurate. And I can feel that as I'm starting to get older. When my ligaments are not working, it's hard to do things.
shane: you dont You know, yeah you you shouldn't even be allowed to say things like that. you're You're way too young.
Danny Price: Yeah. That's funny. um Anyways, so jumping into the questions. um First question I had was, you kind of hit that really hard early on about you eagerly seeking unity in the message. um So can you explain like the process of someone who's in conflict with someone else? How you how would you eagerly seek unity with that person?
Danny Price: If you're in conflict, let's say I'm in conflict but with you, what's the biblical way to resolve that? Do I just pretend and make it go away? Do I text you an interesting text? Do i avoid you? What do I do?
Danny Price: How do i how do i do that biblically?
shane: um The best way is to go on social media and start a war.
shane: ah Yeah, no, pretty much everything that people in our society do nowadays is the opposite of what we should be doing biblically.
Danny Price: Classic. This
Danny Price: is the wrong way.
shane: um You know, first thing is to go and talk, right? um To just go and have a conversation. um so Well, actually, I take the back. First thing is to pray. Go and pray. Um, and ask God to give you a open heart or forgiving heart, a patient heart, a gentle heart, um, to be able to speak with kindness.
shane: Yeah. You speak the truth, but you definitely do it in love. It's not to try to prove someone wrong. It's not to make them feel bad. um You know, it's not to attack them. So, you know, you you start with prayer, then you go to the person and you talk it through, you know, best you can.
shane: And hopefully i would say if people would just do that, they would be surprised how many of the conflicts would be solved pretty quickly. um And then if that doesn't work, you know, ah Matthew 18, verse 15 to 17 says, if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
shane: If he listens to you, you have gained a brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you. that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
shane: If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses even listen to the church, let him be um to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. So here's what I would say that, you know, just walk through that just real quick.
shane: You know, obviously it's like he says, you talk it out first.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: If that doesn't happen, you take two or three people. Now here's what you don't do. You don't take two or three of your family members against someone else. You know, you don't take your three best friends.
shane: um What I always recommend is, is you know, ah some common people. In fact, anytime I feel like that needs to be done, I never just show up with somebody at the at with someone, right?
shane: What I do is text or call them or in the conversation go, hey, I feel like, in fact, I just had a recent situation like this about three or four weeks ago that, hey, I feel like we're not going to come together on this.
shane: We, we need somebody else who can, can you tell me a couple of people that you would respect that we can, that you would listen to and submit to, and, you know, um,
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And then I'll even usually suggest, because obviously it can't be just their side too, right? it has to be a non-biased parties. And then also, i finally, I mean, the the highest level of that is is the elders or the or the shepherds in our church's case and and having them be a part of it.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: So yeah that's how i i really I really truly believe that's exactly what we are supposed to do. And I think it works um very well. So...
Danny Price: And would you say, i mean, I think this would probably be the case about 80% of those arguments or conflicts are probably settled in that first level of just going to the person and talking to them.
shane: Absolutely.
Danny Price: And you see, you see they're human too, and you see their heart behind it. And you're like, Oh, okay. Maybe this was when you're by yourself and you let your mind just go crazy.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: You can get to some crazy ideas of like, they meant this and this is what they were trying to do. And then, and it's not at all the situation.
shane: Oh, yeah. Yeah, the enemy wants to use any weak points like that to attack it. and So, you know, you're going to start thinking the worst of people. yeah You know, we but you've heard me say this before that, you know, and I don't know where I got it, but then we judge others by their actions and we judge ourselves by our intentions.
Danny Price: ah
shane: And More often than not, when the person's offended you or hurt you, they might not even know they did. They didn't mean to do it. they you know and And you start to realize that when you start to talk.
shane: So, yeah, absolutely.
Danny Price: Yeah. Good. That's a good outline. um Next question. You, in the message, and I think you've talked about this actually just to me personally,
Danny Price: you feel like your attitude has been changing a little bit and you've been more and more convicted as you've been reading through Ephesians. um
Danny Price: How do you do that? how do you be how do you How do you wisely and humbly change your opinions on things and be convicted without... and also be challenged, I would say, not just change your beliefs, but how would you be challenged without falling into this like deconstruction, falling away from God and like developing these huge doubts? How do you let scripture change the way that you think about things um in a healthy way?
Danny Price: Because I mean, obviously it seems like you're doing it in a healthy way. You're like, wow, I didn't i didn't see this the same way as I did 10 years ago. And you've allowed yourself to grow in that. How do you have that mindset without holding everything so loosely that you're not grounded in anything and the slightest just like puff of air and challenged your beliefs, you're like, I don't even know what I believe in, you just like fall away.
shane: So let me real quick to clarify. You're saying how do you let the Bible speak to you in new ways without it kind of telling you, like starting to think things that are actually kind of far off? Is that what you're saying?
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah. How do you, how do you allow yourself to be challenged um and change like your opinions on or your interpretations on things in the Bible without
shane: Mm-hmm.
Danny Price: completely just falling away from the faith. Because I feel like some people, they allow themselves to be challenged on everything. And they're like, okay, always looking for that new thing. Always looking for something different.
shane: Got it.
Danny Price: Always looking for that new interpretation.
shane: Got it.
Danny Price: But then they just end up deconstructing and completely falling away from faith because they're like, they're not holding onto any truth, I guess.
shane: Yeah. yeah um Okay, gotcha. For sure. Yeah. So, I mean, the first thing is, anything your any interpretation of any passage needs to be in the context of the entire Bible. you You can't...
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: think a verse means some weird thing that's totally off from, you know, 10 other passages that totally would support opposite um of that.
shane: um You know, so that's the first start. And then, i you know, I kind of go back to that Wesleyan quadrilateral that we talked about where you take, you take um tradition as well, right? You have the by the authority of the scripture measured against tradition, know, and then obviously, yeah, you have your own experience and you have wisdom in that.
shane: but But man, you know, if we if we're going to think that for 1700 years 2000 years, you know, that people
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: believe the the the people that were the eyewitnesses and then they shared that with with others that they were that far off and you found something new that that's just not how they saw it.
shane: i Man, that's pretty arrogant, you know? um So ah we got to be careful, you know, really careful not to just think, you know, you found some new nugget, you know? um if If you can't find people scholars who hold to tradition, not not other scholars who are always looking for new things, other scholars who hold to tradition, then I would really challenge myself and question myself um to look at my thinking.
shane: um You know, that that's a start. I don't know if that, if you want more than that.
Danny Price: how do you So then how do you do it it the right way, like what you've been doing, where you're being you're being convicted on things and you are being challenged in your beliefs on... I think you told me about the way that you s saw...
shane: Yeah, I guess I would say
Danny Price: what what What was it?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: You were telling me about something that you saw it differently. You're like, i've never i never looked at it that way. And then you've cured...
shane: Yeah, well, I would say most of it, oftentimes that for me, when I'm discovering something new, it's more because the last time I studied that passage, either A, I was just kind of doing it rotely.
shane: You know, i was just kind of doing, going through the motions and and then ah in a kind of a drier spell in my faith.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: um or B, and this is most often, that I was in ah a place in life where there was a totally different part of that scripture that stood out to me.
shane: There was a totally different part that that really, really hit me. um you know, and and made me focus on that. And I just didn't even think about the other because I was i was focused on something different.
shane: um So it's not necessarily that I never would have thought whatever that new revelation is. It's just that I was, my my focus was on a different part of it and God was using that.
Danny Price: Interesting.
shane: um
Danny Price: interest and
shane: And, you know, especially as far as my, the the growth I'm experiencing right now, I would say the growth I'm experiencing, and I didn't have time to get into this in the sermon, but I would liken where I'm at more to where I was when I was your age.
shane: um You know, i was I was really passionate, you know, as a 20-something to early 30s. and um And I just kind of noticed and that my mid-40s to early 50s, kind of moved into a I don't want to say questioning.
shane: It wasn't any way deconstruction, but it was just kind of lackadaisical, I would say, not taking things as serious as I used to.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: There's a Christian song by a guy named Jeff Moore. It's an old one, but I i love because I've been listening i've listen to it a bunch lately because it reminds it's it's really old. It's when I was like in my 20s, but it's ah called Passionate Man.
shane: And he he said, in the one of the lyrics is, I was a passionate boy. Lord, make me a passionate man. And that, yeah.
Danny Price: I think you've shown me that, or Hannah showed me that. That's a good song.
shane: And I just, i I kind of like that really applies to where I'm at like right now, you know, just, you know. And then also just obviously the way our culture is going and and and chris everything from the culture that is so anti-Christian to Christians who are not looking at themselves and and just angry at the culture, and they're looking to politics to solve the issues.
shane: So all that stuff, too, has been has been a part of my i would transformation recently.
Danny Price: yeah
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's cool. Yeah, that was a good answer. That was a little bit of a broad question. I didn' i didn't mean it to be vague. um I just know that there's a healthy way to do that, what you're doing, what you're still holding the Bible's truth without um completely just falling into um deconstruction and just turning away from God because everything that you're talking about or everything that you've you've once held is being challenged.
Danny Price: So that's good.
shane: Yeah. And I, and I know, you know, you even have friends and stuff that you've seen do that recently. And so, you know, that's definitely kind of a personal thing that you're, you've had to deal with.
shane: So.
Danny Price: Yeah, it has. um Let's see here. I don't think this is going to be a super long question, but I'm just curious your thoughts. So he, let me pull up the verse as I quote this accurately.
Danny Price: One second.
Danny Price: All right. So it's verse 11. Actually, I'm going to go back to verse 10. No, actually, nevermind. Just verse 11. I don't want to get heat. Paul, oh man, that whole like quotations, it throws off the whole verse or the whole chapter.
Danny Price: Like you were talking about in the sermon, it just it just is such a break. um ah In verse 11, it says in chapter four, verse 11, and he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and the teachers to equip the saints for the work of ministry for the building up the body of Christ.
Danny Price: um We clearly see... evangelists, shepherds, and teachers um in our modern day context. I would say it's very easy to see people who are evangelists, teachers, shepherds.
Danny Price: You don't as much see apostles and that in that sense, I guess in like the the early church sense, and we don't really see prophets. Is that something that still exists today that you would say, oh yeah, that's like, what happened to that?
Danny Price: and do Would you say that that's still something that's, I mean, obviously yeah we talked about apostles in the past and that's not really super ongoing, but prophets, what are your thoughts on that um for the church?
shane: Yeah, um I would say the gift of prophecy is still um one that is valid. the The purpose of the gift is different than what you see in the Old Testament.
shane: In the Old Testament, prophets spoke the Word of God.
Danny Price: Oh,
shane: In the New Testament, prophets point to the Word of God. um and and And I think in a different way than than teaching, than just normal teaching.
Danny Price: oh
shane: um So a prophetic voice today, i would say, is, you know, there the first of all, it it it shouldn't ever be anything that is opposite or added to or, you know, um opposing to Scripture.
shane: Right. um Another thing is it shouldn't ever be considered equal with Scripture. um
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: You know, you don't ever see the apostles or any any teachings or writings talking about that, um that, you know, hey, if someone prophesies that you should consider equal with Scripture, there's not there's nothing like that we see there.
shane: I look at it as more of a spiritual insight into Scripture than a replacement of Scripture. um so Yeah, they they should be, you know, there are some pastors who are, they have more of, I would say, a prophetic voice.
shane: um And then others who have more of a um ah a teaching voice, you know.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: So, um yeah.
Danny Price: That makes sense.
shane: so i But it ah definitely, you know, you've got to watch that guideline. Like, you know, I i think it's 1 John that tells us to test every spirit, right?
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: don't Don't believe every...
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: everything that is prophesied, you know, so.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah, because there is quite a bit of Paul's letters where he's talking about prophecy and even in tongues too, I guess. And it's interesting to think about if if you still believe that those gifts have continued.
Danny Price: I like what you said because I think I would agree with that is that you don't see... Because the nation of Israel, you don't have like a prophet working alongside a king like you saw all the time in the Old Testament, or multiple prophets, actually.
Danny Price: But you see a lot of the major prophets where it's like they were God's voice for that for the nation of Israel.
shane: yes
Danny Price: And they were like, this is what God is saying. um We don't really have that anymore because we have the Bible. But I did like what you said that...
shane: hu
Danny Price: a prophetic voice is someone that could point to what's in the Bible and and a little bit different than teaching. i was almost like a little bit of like with the modern times and with what's going in your life, this might be something you don't need to focus on without being totally just making stuff up.
Danny Price: Cause I think there is fear of that.
shane: Yeah, yeah, I think they look at scripture and then they'll kind of give a more very specific application of scripture, even into your personal life sometimes. You know, I've probably three times had someone give more of a prophetic word into my life that I would look back and kind of go, yeah, that that that was probably a prophetic word. That was, you know, but yeah and it was in no way contrary to scripture.
shane: It was just kind of calling me out or or challenging me to something that was very scriptural.
Danny Price: That's cool. that's that's an That's an excellent. You have people in your life that are doing that. That's excellent, I think, in a healthy way.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: All right, I've got to find this verse again. i this This next question is a verse, and I didn't, like an idiot, I did not write the verse down.
shane: Is it 13? 12. Oh, yeah.
Danny Price: Okay, it is verse 12. It's verse 12 and 13, right after what I was talking about.
shane: well oh yeah
Danny Price: um It says here, um to equip... So he's talking about the apostles, prophets, etc. To equip the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of faith and of knowledge of the Son of God to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
Danny Price: And then it continues, because it's a run-on sentence, because it's Paul. um But my question is, what does the equipping for the work of ministry mean that all these prophets, evangelists, teachers, shepherds are trying to equip the saints for?
shane: ah
Danny Price: What is the work of ministry? Does that mean that all of us should be in ministry? What is that?
shane: are
Danny Price: Like, where where is he going with that? I'm curious what your thoughts are.
shane: Yeah, yes, is the answer. But um yeah, so yes, we should all be in, we are all, I wouldn't say we should all, we are all in ministry. In fact, I don't think you're in for second service, you were first service, right?
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: I was in first, yeah.
shane: Yeah, in second service, I think I said, um you are all ministers of the gospel. the The question is, are you good ones or lazy ones? Yeah.
Danny Price: Oh, you did you did say something like that, but not that that verbiage. But in the first service, you mentioned ish, kind of that that statement, but it was different.
shane: Okay.
Danny Price: But I like that better, what you just said.
shane: Yeah. Yeah. So we're all ministers of the gospel. It's just a matter of how, how seriously we take that role in our life, you know? Um, and what I love, you know, I'm going to, man,
shane: I love that there are some people that get, hey, I'm not perfect. I'm like still really screwed up and God is still really working sanctification processes in my life.
shane: um But they still, they just fully get that that is, that they are called to be ministers of the gospel. um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You know, um there's a lot of people that want, they have this idea that, well, I got to wait. When I have A, B, C, D, and E under control, then I will talk about Jesus to somebody.
shane: And, um you know, i actually think, no, no, obviously there's difference between the person who in no way you can, you can tell they're in no way seeking to be sanctified, but they, they just want to, in some sort of prideful way, kind of talk about Jesus.
Danny Price: um
shane: You think we've all experienced those people.
Danny Price: Yeah. Mm-mm.
shane: um But the person who in humility talks about what the difference Jesus has made in their life and And they just, they're not afraid to also admit they have issues.
shane: um Man, that's ah that's powerful, I think, for a lot of people. And and I've seen, mean, we have a few people in our church right now. i don't know if you've ever met um Emily Chu.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: and
shane: You know, or and, you know, I know, you know, Kyle Moody, but both people who would would readily admit, I've got I still got I got all sorts of stuff.
Danny Price: Yeah, Kyle Moody. Yeah.
shane: God's working with me on and I i don't live the perfect life. I have things, um you know, but ah they're also seeking God. You know, they're both, you know, they're both involved in fellowship.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: They're both. seeking God through the reading of the word and through prayer and and and they're growing and they could say they're growing, but they're, they are not in any way ashamed to talk about the gospel and what, what God has done in their lives.
shane: And we have many others. Those are just two people, you know, I can think of.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So, um, Lindsay Jefferson is another one, you know, i mean, there's just a few people like that, that they just get that, you know, they, they, they're so excited about the difference God's made in their life that they just tell everyone about it, you know?
Danny Price: Yep.
Danny Price: That's so cool.
shane: Um, so we're all, I would say, yes, we are all ministries of record ministers of reconciliation. Um, and then also I'm pretty sure i can't think of the specific verses. Um, right.
shane: Um, But there's but you know there's passages where um you know they they talk about you know we're we're ministers of the gospel. it's...
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: so and So it's kind of same verbiage, just different verbiage, same point.
Danny Price: Same, same. Yeah.
shane: But, um and, and, you know, for some people, they're going to be readily more, more readily um able to just share their faith like that. And that's their ministry.
shane: But, but others, you know, you don't necessarily have to be that person to really be a minister of the gospel in different ways. Another couple I think of i don't know their last names. I can never remember, but Roger and Charlene, they go to our church, you know, um,
Danny Price: I love Roger, Charlie, and they're awesome.
shane: Yeah. And, you know, they're, they're, I don't know how much they go out and share their faith, but man, they, they get that they, they're servants, you know and they have servant hearts and they, so they, they increased our kingdom impact by the way they jump in and, and serve, you know?
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: And um so, so then I guess what I'm trying to point to is there's people who I would not go, oh, these are like key, like leader type people in our church.
shane: Um, but they're still super involved in the ministry, right? I mean, it's easy to point to the leaders. It's easy to point to you and David and all the shepherds and staff and, um, the littles and Megan Wilmarth and the, you know, um,
shane: you know, the um sparks and all those kinds of people. But those those people could look at and they go, well, they're leaders, you know, but I'm not that, you know.
Danny Price: and Yeah, right.
shane: so So we have to see that, yeah, but forget that. You still have gifts that can be used.
Danny Price: Yeah, and you're being equipped by being at the church to do that stuff.
shane: Yes.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's, you asked about what is the equipping. I didn't even get into that.
Danny Price: Well, not even, i wasn't even talking to them as much about the equipping.
shane: I just got into.
shane: Oh, God.
Danny Price: I mean, I guess we could talk about that, but mostly just like the work, it says for the work of ministry.
shane: Oh, God.
Danny Price: It's like, well, I think a lot of people, like you said, they think of ministry as a vocation.
shane: ah her
Danny Price: Like you have to be paid to do it if if you're going to call yourself in ministry. um
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I don't remember who said it. It was someone that, um kind of mentored my dad who would say, ministry is not what you do, it's who you are, um which is a lot, I think it's been commonly, there's like, you know, a but bunch of common iterations of that phrase that people have used, but it really does ring true that you you can't just be someone who is paid to do it, to call yourself, I wouldn't say, a minister, like you said, like a minister is, you know, kind of a little bit more
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: of like a title, but in ministry to someone that's doing ministry, that's sharing your faith, that's ah spreading the gospel. Like that's just, that's just being follower of Jesus. So
shane: Yeah. Yeah. But, and, and then also just like I said, just those other things, like I said, Charlene is probably not someone who goes around and shares her faith all that much, but you know, she comes in the church.
Danny Price: yeah.
shane: I don't know how many hours, but you know, it started out with just like two hours a week and, and does all sorts of stuff that frees up other people to do other things, you know, that, but they still need to be done, you know, and that, that is ministry.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: It's full on ministry.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah. I think and camp in camp, we call that like lateral service. Like you're serving people in the body like laterally. It's not necessarily serving the, like for us, it's the campers, but for the church, I think it would be like just the community.
Danny Price: It's, but like laterally, you're serving people laterally so that each person, each body part, if you will, can perform best where they're suited.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: um
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So you don't have different people having, you know, the the foot having to do the hands job, et cetera.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Um, so yeah, that's, that's really cool. Um, I, I got to mention this for the podcast. This is so funny to me. Um, I'm what, so Shane and I can see each other on video and it's so funny with him. He has toilet paper all over his office because cause someone TP his office and it sounds like the whole office.
Danny Price: So really funny. Just like looking at very, just everything all over the place. And he's trying to clean it up. So you guys, you guys don't get that treat that I get to to watch that.
shane: I didn't think it'd be bugging me, but I'm sitting here looking at my desk, pile of toilet paper.
Danny Price: Oh, know I can see it.
shane: I'm like, I Yeah.
Danny Price: That's funny. um Paul, so Paul mentioned same thing in the passage. He talks about being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. um What are the doctrines that the church was having to fight against?
Danny Price: um And are are there any repeats to what we're seeing today with what the church is having to fight against?
shane: um Hang on one second. But yeah, the, um Definitely there would be the same kinds of things. I don't know if we would um call them the same things, but Gnosticism um was that was a big thing back then um that they had to fight against.
Danny Price: Okay. Yeah.
shane: um
Danny Price: And narcissism is, that's if you want to go into that.
shane: And, well, and actually I'm actually going to look it up so I don't – I'm going to type it in here real quick because I don't want to missri misrepresent it. Okay.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: ah Okay. So, yeah, not – I didn't – I accidentally did not look it up. i
shane: Okay.
Danny Price: Technology.
shane: Yeah. right. um yeah Yeah, you know me, I can ah get con confused on that. So yeah the Gnosticism, basically what would be considered dualism, um where the there's a material world and a spiritual world.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: And um so they didn't see them as kind of intersecting per se. So they taught that that Jesus um was...
shane: was not fully human, that he couldn't have been human, that he was only spirit.
Danny Price: Right.
shane: um So that, that would have been one thing that they were definitely dealing with. And I think they also, um I mean, let me look, they ejected the, yeah, yeah,
Danny Price: Well, they don't, well, they, it's like mysticism. It's like, there's more in the spirit realm to be uncovered.
shane: Yeah, like the spirit realm is where where all the good is.
Danny Price: That's like secret knowledge.
shane: And there's, you know, that, it yeah, it's kind of like anything in the physical is bad.
Danny Price: Yeah. Uh-huh.
shane: So there's, therefore, Jesus couldn't have had any physical. um They didn't... um They did not um hold to the Old Testament. um
Danny Price: Oh, really?
shane: a
Danny Price: OK. I didn't know that.
shane: Yeah, they viewed, well, actually some of them. They viewed the God of the Old Testament as a lower or false God. So, um yeah.
Danny Price: Huh. Interesting.
shane: so um but then ah ah But other things was legalism.
Danny Price: I didn't know that.
shane: I mean, Paul was constantly pushing against legalism because there were all sorts of Jews um that followed him around.
Danny Price: Yep. Yep.
shane: They called them Judaizers. judaizers that
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: Bum around and tried to teach it. Hey, you that's great. You can be saved, but you need to become a Jew.
Danny Price: You have to be, yep.
shane: um So that would have been another big one that he was constantly pushing against. um And yeah, those would probably been the big ones. um But, you know, I mean, obviously, just like today.
shane: There are always little, little, like you kind of say, these people that go, oh, I have some special idea, some new thoughts, some new revelation. And and they're they're wanting to kind of change the gospel.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: And so they they dealt with it even in the first century right away.
Danny Price: It always goes down to the gospel somehow.
shane: Yeah. And so they're, you know, you name it. And I think the church has been dealing with it pretty much since the beginning.
Danny Price: Yeah. I listened to a podcast and you guys could look this up. um It's called Verity by Felicia Misenheimer. She's written a bunch of books, mostly for women, but... Don't ask me how I got roped into that. But Hannah has read a couple of her books, and I ended up listening to her podcast.
Danny Price: But she does this whole early church series. And it did it wasn't talking just about Ephesians. it was talking It's like a very layman's view of like the early church period. And she kind of walks through some big events and what's happening with Rome, what's happening with the church.
Danny Price: um But yeah, but just like what you were saying, the other word she uses, which...
shane: Okay.
Danny Price: I can't remember exactly. ah Someone's going to have to, i don't want to look this up on the fly, but asceticism, which, and docicism, which is like kind of the same thing as you were saying, which is that Jesus was not, was not actually, um human that he was like, it was like an illusion, kind of like you were saying with narcissism, like it's all has to do with like taking and diluting the gospel. So that was the one. And the other one was, it was like the asceticism, which is like to truly be a good follower of the gospel. You have to deny yourself everything, including marriage, including,
Danny Price: like food, like, like you have to like make yourself like a monk essentially.
shane: Oh, yes, yes. I actually, mm-hmm,
Danny Price: And just, and I don't know if that was happening in Ephesus.
shane: yes.
Danny Price: That's why I was asking. Cause I, what she was saying, it was like the early church had to fight against these things, but I'm like, ah I don't know if that's Ephesus. I don't know where all those ideas are coming from because some places have different, um but yeah, I thought that was interesting.
shane: Yeah, I don't know if that would have been considered emphasis or not.
shane: and I'd have to dig more into that one. I am sorry.
Danny Price: um I just think it's so interesting how all that stuff, it always goes back to the gospel of like, the simple gospel is never enough. You have to add something. You have to take away from something. God, Jesus wasn't really God. He really didn't have to die. he didn't even die necessarily because he wasn't, he wasn't even a person.
Danny Price: Like, it's really interesting how all those things, it's like all, there's nothing new under the sun. It's all the same stuff.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: Hmm. Let me see here. Just for time's sake, I don't think we can ask all these questions. um Let's look here. going to go the next one that I had written down because I think it's cool.
Danny Price: I think it'll be interesting for you to talk about this.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: um youre really You were really direct and really bold, I think, in the sermon, which I loved, just about being involved in church and having a church body and being part of a body.
Danny Price: um
shane: yeah
Danny Price: Can you describe for me... and I hate, I don't, I have to find a better word. don't want to say workflow, but something like, like the flow chart. Can you describe to me the process of someone in your mind of like, they're not a Christian and they come to Mountain View.
Danny Price: What's the process from, from that, from that starting period in their faith? um Not necessarily, I guess it doesn't have to be Mountain View specific because maybe people are listening that aren't from Mountain View, but it's good. They start going to a church and then,
Danny Price: they're working their way along and like God, you know, transforms them and stuff. And then but at the end of that process is they're serving in the church. They're fully active in their faith. They're being sanctified. You know, they're, they're a Christian, they have salvation and they're just thriving in their faith.
Danny Price: What is the process from a to Z with that? How would you, how would you encourage or coach someone, someone along that's like, I don't know anything about Jesus. I'm just curious who is, who is God? What is this all about from that period all the way to the very end where it's like, they're fully devoted in their faith.
shane: Welcome.
Danny Price: They're sanctified. They're, they're growing, they're challenging or being challenged.
shane: but i
Danny Price: Like what's, what's the process between Cause I think a lot of people are somewhere along that line and they're like, we'll never get to that. But then also they don't know what the next step would be.
shane: Yeah. so Okay. That's, that's really, that's a great point. Great question. Um, you know, I would say, you know, if you're walking into a church with that whole, like, I, I got to discover, going to try and discover God or I'm, I'm interested and I want to find out, you know if you're starting there, great, go to the church.
shane: Um, See if it's a place you can can at least feel comfortable and welcome. You don't have to fully agree with or obviously or and even fully understand everything the pastor's talking about, but at least make sure you're kind of interested that they that they are interesting in some level to you, you know, what they're talking about.
shane: Um, and, and that you feel kind of like at home, like the people are people that you could kind of get to know that kind of thing. So start with that. Like, is it a church that I, I kind of feel like I could see myself, even if I never fully believed that I could see myself getting to know some of these people and enjoying them.
shane: You know, and then i would say from there, go to the church for a few weeks, but don't, man, don't just do that. Because if you do that, i mean, now you're relying on this pastor every week to say something that is going to help you, you know, that they're going to be in the the areas that you're wrestling with or whatever.
shane: That's a lot. That's a lot of pressure on um the guy preaching.
Danny Price: Yeah, it is.
shane: And he doesn't even know. He doesn't even know that what questions you have. So,
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: I would take the next step and find out whatever way they, every church, i'm not every church, most good churches have a way to take a step forward, whether it be like we have our connection lunch.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: We just had a thing we called pie with pastors on Sunday as well, which was cool.
Danny Price: yep
shane: um We have a one-on-one do, do something like that to get to get to know and just be open. Just say, Hey, I'm, I'm checking this out.
shane: I don't know what I'm supposed to do. You know, go, go to something. Now they don't, and you don't see, if you don't see anything that they have like that, set an appointment with the pastor, you know, um and, and meet with them and just kind of say, Hey, I'd love to, I'd love to kind of figure out more.
shane: How to, how do I understand this? And, you know, and just most pastors are going to welcome that, you know, at some level.
Danny Price: Oh yeah, for sure.
shane: Now, if it's a huge church, um you know, you're probably going to be meeting with someone else. going to meeting with that pastor. Um, even, even our size church, you, you know, there's a chance you'd be me meeting with one of our other pastors, but, but usually i can, I'll make time, you know, I'll figure it out.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Um, and then from there, you, what's going to happen generally, good, a church that's going to do that well is they're going to tell you kind of their path of what they'd like you to do, um and be open and do it.
shane: But even more importantly, if they know you are literally seeking to understand who God is better and you don't know who God is, they they're going to connect you with someone who's going to disciple you.
shane: And and i really believe that's probably the most important thing. And when we say disciple, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Danny Price: and And or give you a Bible, too, probably. it's like you I'm guessing if like you don't even have a Bible or Yeah..........
shane: like
shane: Yeah. Yeah. They're going to like say, Hey, get, let's get you a Bible. Um, let's, let's meet for coffee a couple every time, you know, um, for me, when I do that with somebody, I'll usually recommend, Hey, start by reading, um, one of the gospels. Um, I kind of like to find out what kind of person they are before everyone, the go-to is recommending John.
shane: i kind of like to find out what kind of person they are before I recommend the gospel because all four gospels are kind of written for different kinds of people.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: Um,
Danny Price: and
shane: So I'll start with that. um You know, go through a gospel with them. A lot of churches will have a Foundations of Faith class. um Take that, you know, see if you can understand that.
shane: um they' they'll They'll give you online resources. So definitely start with getting to a point, do whatever you need you need to do to kind of say, yes, yes.
shane: I fully believe that who jesus Jesus says he is who he is. And I want, I want to offer my life to him.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I want to put my life in his hand. So get to that point. think that hat, you know, I would say that's your first step. um
Danny Price: yeah
shane: And then once you're at that step, I, I believe jump in. with everything, you know, i I believe go to figure out like, Hey, how, where, how can I find a place to serve? Um, is there a Bible study I can go do that kind of stuff and, and start doing those things.
shane: But the idea of like, well, I'm just going to go to church until something presents itself. And I'm just going to come on Sunday mornings and hopefully something will just happen. I'll know where I'm supposed to serve or how I'm supposed to grow that man. That's,
shane: I don't know, man. That's like saying I'm going go to Disneyland without any maps and have them take down all the signs.
shane: And i'm just going to figure out where I'm supposed to go to do everything. and and just
Danny Price: yeah
shane: you're you're You're basically kind of choosing to be ignorant and you're choosing, and I would say, almost kind of a, like, well, God better prove himself to me kind of vibe.
Danny Price: yeah yeah ah i that's interesting that's cool um I think that Mountain View does a good job with the new believer or the like person who's exploring.
Danny Price: um Maybe they've been part of a different religion, and then they're like being an LDS in the past or being a different religion, and then they go come to Mountain View. I think we do a good job but of um having ah opportunities for them to get plugged in and to get information about not just Mountain View, because i mean that is part of it. like we're different where We operate differently than you know other churches might.
Danny Price: now not mainline Christian churches, but like a different religion church. We operate differently and there might be some questions, but um I think we're pretty relational. So I think we do a good job just being able to be in community with other people and kind of getting people plugged in.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: um But yeah, no, um I'm just, i was just curious because I think there's a lot of people out there that are, seek, um I'm not necessarily listening to podcast, but people that just out there that are just like, I'll just go into a church and i don't, I'm not like, and they'll use think phrases like, well, I'm not a good person, but hopefully hopefully God doesn't strike me dead when I go in church. And then they go in church and they're like, oh this is interesting. Like, I don't even understand what's going on here. Why are we singing these songs? Why are we doing this?
Danny Price: So from someone like from that background, ah i think we do a really good job of just taking them through from A to Z kind of through the process of becoming a Christ follower and becoming a Christian.
Danny Price: I mean, obviously, and there's the work of the Holy spirit and that I don't think we're stealing, stealing from that at all. And there's obviously you like reading the Bible and things and people, I i think you can become, i don't know what you think about this, but I think you can become a Christian on your own, but just by reading the Bible and like the power of the gospel.
Danny Price: But I think it's very hard to do that, especially in our modern context where there's so much information flying at you and people are so skeptical.
shane: Mm-hmm.
Danny Price: um think I think it's hard. I think it's really difficult without people coming alongside you and mentoring you. Like you were saying, like that's really cool about disciples or being discipled by someone.
shane: Yeah, no, I definitely agree. It's hard. and And I mean, I'm glad you think we do a great job. but I a really good job. i I would say we do a pretty good job. i There's there's you know, I think I'm always looking at the man. What about the people that fall through the cracks? You know, um that's my heart.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: It's always like so concerned about that.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So um but yeah, I mean, i think we do.
Danny Price: me
shane: As good a job as most, ah you know, I would say, but I think churches in general, we we just don't do a great job.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And I think we should be striving for a great job in that. So.
Danny Price: That leads me kind of two quick questions to finish out. ah do Where do you think we need to do a better job at at Mountain View of equipping um where are we Where are we doing well? Where are we crushing it? And where do we maybe need to do a a slightly better job?
Danny Price: Like if you had just had to pick some broad areas and of scope, of like, I wish we did a better job with this. And maybe an area that you think we are doing a good job.
shane: Yeah. I would say we we do a good job. And there again, comparatively to most churches, i would say we do a we we're crushing it when it comes to that.
shane: I would say like that first six to eight weeks that someone comes to church.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: We make them feel welcome. were We're very clear that we have options for them to take steps forward. They take, you know, hopefully they take those steps. It's on them if they don't, right?
shane: We can't make them, but hopefully they do.
Danny Price: No, of course.
shane: we um and We're great. I would say our people are so good at ah talking to people in the lobby and, you know, like not just letting people walk in and walk out without someone saying hi to them and are trying to connect, all that.
shane: I think we do after that. I think we're okay at that next step where they've taken the class. Maybe um they've gone to the lunch. They've done a couple of things like that.
shane: um But now I don't know if we do a great job with like, what they should be doing after that and helping them in that process. Like we, we maybe send them an email or something like that, but you know, I don't know Do you open your emails? you know what mean?
Danny Price: not always.
shane: I don't know how well we do, we do that. So that's a process I want to see us growing. I, but I still think we're doing better than a lot of churches. We just, we could do better there.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And then the other thing is, you know, like it's nice when you come to a new church and people say hi to you, but after like six to eight weeks, if it's just high, You know, you're like, okay, that's cool.
Danny Price: Yeah, it's shallow. Yeah.
shane: But I still don't have any friends. I still don't know, you know, no one. So I think we could do better at people doing the whole like, hey, man, talk asking, having, you know, it's the Ford principle.
shane: and don't know if you've ever heard me talk about that.
Danny Price: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you have.
shane: But yeah, ask about the family, ask about occupation, ask about their recreation and ask about their dreams, you know. um And, you know, that's.
shane: So having those kind of relationships, I'd like to see us be better at that. And then coming alongside people like, oh, yeah, you didn't know about our one-on-one class? Well, hey, i'll I'd be happy to go with you. you know Or, hey, would you like to go to lunch?
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: All that kind of stuff. So I'd like to see us better there. And then, quite frankly, the discipleship, I think we we really are not great at that. So we, you know, we have our foundations classes, we have some groups, we have midweek, we have stuff.
shane: So if people are proactive, we're doing a pretty good job. But for the people that are kind of not proactive and kind of need someone to nudge them more, I think we we kind of suck at it.
Danny Price: We don't have, yeah. OK, interesting.
shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: Interesting. that's ah That was a good just spin off of the end of the last question. um Cool. um Last question quickly. i just was curious because I know that this is the case with people that come to Mountain View.
Danny Price: What do you tell someone who's um feeling pressure, pressure, maybe good pressure even, or good calling to serve and to get really involved at Mountain View, but they've experienced a lot of church hurt or they're just out of a different religion or they're feeling like they need to heal or like kind of have like a waiting period before they jump in. What do you tell that person? is there a Is there a good time for them to kind of wait and just kind of soak things in and heal before jumping into service? Or is that kind of like a pretty quick process and you should probably start getting involved sooner than later?
shane: I think, you know, it depends on the person ah little bit. And it depends on the situation, what happened, you know. um But I will say, man if that process that you're in is taking you more than a year, chances are the enemy is allowing you to soak in your in your misery.
shane: or not the enemy is allowing it. You're allowing the enemy to make you soak in that misery.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And you need, you need to take steps to get out. And honestly, for the average person, I would say couple months, you know, i mean, there's a few people that would say, okay, yeah, their personalities, everything about them, they probably need a year to heal.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: But, but for most people,
shane: one of the best ways to heal is is, getting up and getting back out, you know, and, and move, moving through things and, and doing, you know, and, and starting to do what God's calling you to do.
shane: You know, I always kind of joke. um And i really think the the stories I have are worse than most pastors have had even, um you know, if you want to, if you want to have a church hurt contest, I'll go head to head any day.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
shane: And, but, but i you know, we're, we're caught. We're still, I'm not going to let the enemy take that, you know, from me that we're, we're called to serve and we're, um and the moment the enemy takes that from you, you're letting him win.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: And so, so I, yeah, I, you know, I get a little bit of healing.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: I get a little bit time and, you know, and also like I even get, like, it was interesting. I asked people, you know, I was pretty, I asked people like, Hey, if you call this your church home and had them raise their hands. Right.
Danny Price: I know, I know did.
shane: And then it like, Hey, how many of you are serving?
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: And you know, a lot of people didn't, raised their hand when I said, Hey, this is your church home. Are you serving? a lot of them didn't, but I was actually surprised that there were probably 25 to 40% of the people, depending on the service and, but the two services that did not raise their hand when I said, if you're at a point where you call this your church home,
shane: So, you know, that just shows you how much, like for us, how much, how many, like newer people we have that, you know, and, you know, obviously you got, you want to make sure you're like, okay, I'm bought in.
Danny Price: Yeah, totally.
shane: This is my, this is where I see myself, you know, so.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah. And I would say a caveat with that too, and I think this goes without saying, is that you don't have to serve in an area that you feel ah well, I should, how do I phrase this?
Danny Price: You shouldn't be serving in an area maybe where you're not fully equipped yet. Like no one's going to have you teaching a class if you're a brand new Christian, but you can still be a greeter at the door and still welcome others to.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So like, if you're like, well, I just need to be healing because i i'm I'm having to rip apart.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Like, let's say you came out of the LDS faith and you're like, I'm having to tear down all these these things that I thought they, that was, that was true. And now I'm realizing it wasn't. And then this term in Christianity means a totally different thing. And the LDS faith, if you're in that spot, no one's going to have, yeah, you're not, you're not equipped. You're not ready to start teaching. Not yet.
Danny Price: Um, But that does not mean that you can't be part of the parking team, that you can't be running sound, that you can't be, you know, invested in helping and and helping with the body.
shane: Yes.
Danny Price: i think people a lot of times think that, well, I have to be a fully fledged, you know, crazy crushing it Christian to really be actively serving. It's like, no, you you don't, you don't have to do that.
shane: Nope.
Danny Price: And we're not going to put you, you know, the leadership is wise at Mountain View. They're not going to put you in a place where you're not ready um and and ill qualified to do something like that.
shane: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a good point. See, I forget that people might be thinking through those lenses sometimes. So, yeah, I totally agree.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Like, yeah, i mean, i first thing I always encourage people to do is, hey, get involved in the first impressions, you know, greet, parking, you know, something like that.
Danny Price: Totally.
shane: Don't don't worry about the big stuff yet.
Danny Price: Yeah. Oh, good. Awesome. Well, we're running late as always. Um, so we're going we're going to cut the episode off. Appreciate you guys listening. Um, again, apologies about last week. That was frustrating for both of us. Um,
Danny Price: We're excited to just keep trucking on. So um we'll see you guys next week. Again, if you...
shane: Yeah, it sucks that we had it sucks that we had Mark Driscoll and Craig Grishel as the guests last week too, and that didn't work.
Danny Price: I know, no right. Yeah, I know, right.
shane: and
Danny Price: Not at all. All right. Um, what was I going to say? oh there was something i was going to Oh, um, please send us questions. Good grief guys. Um, we, we, we really want to get questions from you guys.
shane: Yeah, questions.
Danny Price: I know I put that down as last week and I know some people listen to that. Um, but I didn't get any questions this week. I got some last week, but not this week. So I want to get questions. Um, if you don't know how that, go to the Mountain View Church website and go and see Shane's email is on there.
Danny Price: Um, if you need my, on the bulletin,
shane: Or just on the bulletin. Here's what I told people on Sunday. On the bulletin, it's admin at mbfchurch.com. They will forward it. You can literally, while you're listening to the sermon, type in a question on your phone and email it to admin at mbfchurch.com.
Danny Price: Yes.
Danny Price: Yes. And it would make it so much more interesting for us. um Because I mean, i i try to do a good job with questions. But I mean, my brain only goes so far with some of these things. And I have no idea what's.
shane: Yeah, your brain is very limited.
Danny Price: Yeah, exactly. ah Anyways, appreciate you guys. We'll catch you guys next week. Thanks. Bye.
shane: Bye.
