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Suffering Beyond Description with William Fleming
53 Plays1 year ago
This episode, Baltimore City Schools Teacher, William Fleming. We talk perception of Southerners, heirloom clothing, art, every day quirks, "the most written about region in the US," presenting yourself to the world, Luther Vandross, window shopping, and much more, including what it's like to be a public school teacher in Baltimore, Maryland.
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Transcript
Introductions and Guest Arrival
00:00:00
Speaker
Good afternoon, wherever you are. I'm Connor Fowler. And I'm Matt Smith. And welcome to Apocalypse Duds. We have a special show today, continuing our Southern tour. Today, we welcome the indomitable William Fleming, Baltimore City educator, scientist, effortless style icon, and much more to be discovered. William, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks, Connor. Thanks, Matt. Yeah, of course, but thank you for being here.
00:00:28
Speaker
It's been a rocky road,
Weather and Local Life in Baltimore
00:00:30
Speaker
but here we are, all in the same room, listening to each other talk. Quite a rocky road. Yeah. How's your day been today? So currently it's spring break and it's been pretty relaxed for the most part. I'm still in Baltimore City, so I'm not on vacation as in the out of town. But yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah. What's the weather like there for both of you guys?
00:00:59
Speaker
Uh, I saw on a marquee that it was 48. I don't typically check. Oh shit. It didn't feel that cold. It didn't feel that cold to me though. So it was, there was, you know, when it's like, there's a blanket of moisture in the air. That's what's going on. Uh, good, good times. Good times. I will not regale you with the, uh, high sixties and Sunday day that I have. So.
00:01:22
Speaker
Damn, damn you. We always get the weather. We always get your weather. So it's time for us next. Exactly.
Roots and Connection to Atlanta
00:01:33
Speaker
Exactly. Very true. So to get into it, William will start at the beginning. Where did you grow up? Yeah. So I was born in Augusta, Georgia, and I spent my beginning years in a town not far from there, but my family then moved to Atlanta. So.
00:01:52
Speaker
all three of those places I call home, but mostly Atlanta, Georgia. That's what, uh, just out of curiosity for me, like what neighborhood or like area and Atlanta were you in? So that Southwest. Oh, nice. Nice. Like Sylvan Hills East Point. Like Sandtown. Okay. Yeah. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Did you say Sandtown? Yeah, there's a, it's not called
00:02:22
Speaker
yeah it's now called the city of south fullton okay okay i didn't realize that that got engulfed in the avenue there's a fullton avenue that leads to sandtown in baltimore i wouldn't be surprised if it was a um some lawyer or you know legislator oh we tend to recycle names yeah yeah certainly certainly well that's that's sick man like being someone that's
00:02:51
Speaker
you know, been in Atlanta forever. Like it's always fun to meet people that actually grew up in the city versus like a suburb that moved into it, which I am definitely like, you know, that's a part of me, but I've been here since 2002. Oh, that's some time.
Early Fashion Influences
00:03:10
Speaker
Yeah. Like it's, it is my favorite city in the country and shout out to Atlanta, Georgia, but
00:03:20
Speaker
Happy to be talking to another Atlantean. So what, do you remember kind of being like the first memory of you paying attention to clothing? I remember my mother would take
00:03:47
Speaker
So she would get her hair done quite frequently as a lot of black women do. And she, you know, working professional, but there was a children's clothing store right next to, or perhaps on the same block as the beauty salon. And I remember my sister and I would go with her and there would be all of these really, really nice, what I believe were custom made clothing and accessories and toys and also books.
00:04:16
Speaker
And so the displays will be really, really nice. Um, and she would go and get things for us for any special occasion, or if it was school was starting and it was summertime and we needed the staples. But, uh, I remember looking at those things and thinking, wow, that looks really, really good. But questioning like, why, why is it that these colors look good together or this tech, this type of fabric or, you know.
00:04:41
Speaker
I was always curious as to what why certain things would be pieced together.
Practicality and Style in Clothing
00:04:46
Speaker
So That started really really really early That's awesome in it. Like how how early do you think that was? That was maybe I'll say fourth or fifth grade And what what kind of stuff, you know, did you see the people that you were around wearing While you're growing up
00:05:10
Speaker
I was going to say, we went to church, my parents are very religious, so we were in church every week. And so for the most part, you would see men in suits, just typical sex suits, two or three button, nothing really flashy or overdone. Right, just classic soccer. Exactly right. The women though, because just of how society is structured, would have a little bit more leeway and expression. Right. And so you would see all different sorts of things, you'd see
00:05:41
Speaker
I didn't really see a lot of fur in the south but certainly jewelry, different types of fabrics and all these really different prints. I thought those were pretty cool and of course shoes were a thing and handbags were a thing too and hats and some men wore pretty decent hats as well. Yeah, so that's some pretty nice things for the most part.
00:06:03
Speaker
Yeah, you were kind of taking it all in, not just like the guys in suits, but also just like the cover pops and things for, um, the, like the more femme side of shit. Yeah. When you identified, you identified a type of suit too, right? The sack suit. Um, right. Right. The, the, we use the word indomitable already, but, uh, the sack suit is like a sort of bulletproof institution.
00:06:32
Speaker
in American, in American tailored clothing. It is so practical. That's what I like about it. It's very, very practical. I appreciate that. For certain. Yeah, you sure can. And I like that especially.
00:06:52
Speaker
especially at work. But I was going to say every now and again, you'd come across what I guess young people now, or at least millennials will call like a bow, like a guy who is kind of fancy. So like bow ties or like he might wear saddle, saddle shoes or the Sears. And I mean, this is not a younger guy. This is someone that's older. So, you know, he has time and probably a pension or some kind of retirement fund.
00:07:19
Speaker
And just pretty cool, laid back, but also very stylish. Yeah. Just someone who stepped out a little bit more than others. Yes. My father had a very close friend whose name was Otis, who was an impeccable dresser in that regard. Tall, very thin. He was from Cleveland. Very, very nice dresser. Yep.
Career Journey: Biology to Teaching
00:07:47
Speaker
So I guess we'll cut to the chase here a little bit. Why did you go into teaching and why in Baltimore? Yeah. So I left graduate school, um, with a degree, two degrees in biology. Um, and I was planning on going to Seattle. I was either going to go to Seattle or New York, but I was more set on Seattle, um, to do.
00:08:15
Speaker
research in infectious disease. There was a leading HIV and AIDS researcher that I talked to, and he was really interested in me shadowing him or just working under him. And then I thought, well, maybe I should just, you know, cast my net a little bit wider. And so I applied for TFA, but they didn't have any positions teaching biology.
00:08:39
Speaker
Oh yeah, teach for America, teach for America. I think a lot of people will know, but anyway. Yeah. And to be fair, I also, I mean, that graduate degree was pretty tough. It just took a lot out of me, especially having gone straight into it after undergraduate. So I thought, well, maybe I should do something a little bit more relaxed. So TFA unfortunately didn't have a position for me.
00:09:08
Speaker
And so they said, but we really like you. We can refer you to one of our partner organizations. And so they introduced me to urban teachers, um, talk with them for about two weeks. And then they gave me an option to go three options. They said, Baltimore DC or Dallas, I think. Um, and I thought, no, I can't go to Texas. I absolutely can't go to Texas. And I can't go to DC.
00:09:38
Speaker
So Baltimore was the only option. And plus C, I was just so far away. I was just like, that's really far away from my family. It's really far.
Urban Development: Baltimore vs. Atlanta
00:09:52
Speaker
So. Yeah. So I was in Baltimore recently and I, like being, you know, a long time Atlanta, I noticed a lot of similarities between the two cities. Have you like,
00:10:08
Speaker
Have you kind of had that same experience being in Baltimore? Um, I would say I could see some, but they are unique in that regard though. Totally. Totally. There's parts of Baltimore city that remind me of like old fourth ward, um, or like Ponce. And then of course there's parts that remind me of, you know, where I'm from or like Druid Hill, Druid Hill in Homewood are very similar to me.
00:10:37
Speaker
Right. Right. You know, so I can see why you would say that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It like, I mean, I don't know when the last time you were down here, uh, but seeing as how your family's from here, I would imagine that like you're, you're down here like somewhat often, but you know, one of the things that struck me about like the difference was.
00:11:03
Speaker
how gentrified Atlanta has become and how little corporate, or national corporate shit I saw in Baltimore, which was really, really kind of shocking.
00:11:18
Speaker
Like there was not that much of it there. So like the gentrification. It is reviled. It is a despised place. Yeah. Yeah. Like corporations, corporations leave Baltimore because it's in Maryland, which is in a very expensive state. And so you, if you were to have, say your headquarters in Baltimore, you would be paying tons of money and you would be in Baltimore, uh, as many people would think, right?
00:11:47
Speaker
Um, so it just is, it just is all poisonous really. Yeah. I don't know. It was just rad for me to see like a place like Baltimore that has like some similarities, but they actually keep the old shit instead of just knocking it down into some like, you know, hyper corporate development like they do here.
00:12:14
Speaker
Yeah, I really, that's what I really appreciate about it. I do like that because what I, aside from the social aspect of gentrification, the architecture itself is concerning because it's not always, number one, the best materials or two, the best design or the smartest design. And so that certainly cuts away to me from quality of life because
00:12:41
Speaker
it's
00:13:01
Speaker
citizens or members of a neighborhood can come together and enact maybe zoning laws or policies so that certain buildings can't be torn down or they can be restored or be on the national registry. That's pretty awesome. Yeah, there is a certain respect for history in that way, but I think that it's kind of connected to my earlier point about like people just staying out of Baltimore.
00:13:30
Speaker
Like people are not knocking stuff down because people are not itching to build buildings in Baltimore. But it seems now that that kind of course has changed completely. I don't know when I first came here.
00:13:49
Speaker
I could immediately sense that it was underpopulated. I was like, whoa. Well, it's not just, it is not underpopulated. It is like grossly underpopulated from like one, I think from 1.6 million down to 400,000. Like that is the, that is the toll of white flight. Hmm. Hmm.
00:14:16
Speaker
Wow. That's crazy. Baltimore used to be the fifth biggest city in America. Yeah, I did hear that. I was reading that book, The Black Butterfly, which talks about housing and segregation and how Baltimore was a prominent city in the beginning. I don't know exactly when that started, maybe the 20th century. Yeah. I think that's when, like with industry,
00:14:43
Speaker
And like you were just saying, because suburbs started to boom, and then highways and interstates were being built, tearing down certain neighborhoods. And people, like you were just saying, they didn't have a desire to live in a city anymore. They didn't have, I guess, the amenities for people to want to raise a family. So it's kind of depressing, but it's the reality. And I can see it.
00:15:14
Speaker
cities can be yucky places but like they don't have to be and certainly this one isn't uh like a cursed place you know but there is like a sort of a pall over baltimore um i mean that i don't think other cities in america have really like yeah i feel like baltimore chicago in particular are two places like that and
00:15:43
Speaker
like I've seen a lot of cities in the country and a lot of the complaints about this about things are literally just being in a city where there are people around you at close quarters and it's like you know can you just be a normal ass human being like there's you know there there there are things about living in
00:16:13
Speaker
very close proximity to a lot of people that I don't think that people moving into that space understand. And it's like, yo, just stay in the suburbs. Right. I was telling one of my colleagues, her wife, that the perception of Southerners being somewhat pleasant or hospitable is because we don't have to wake up and have an elbow our way through the day. Right, right.
00:16:43
Speaker
And coming here, I mean, it's not a hustle and bustle all the time, but it certainly can be a lot more rushed than a place like Atlanta or Nashville or New Orleans or Savannah or Charleston or any of those places. Yeah. I don't think that they, I don't know. I don't know. Cities are meant to be cosmopolitan. They're meant to be places for
00:17:10
Speaker
civilized people, but I do get what you mean when you say that not everyone follows that same rule of thumb. Oh, certainly. I mean, let's be honest here, the Nextdoor app, whatever the fuck website is a great example of this.
00:17:30
Speaker
Like, you know, everyone hates Nextdoor. I only personally joined it because I found two dogs that were roaming around, but it's like these people are complaining about the dumb shit that goes into living very, very close in the city to other people. And there's, you know, for a very elementary definition of it.
00:17:57
Speaker
you know it's it's really fun to like i don't know just hear the differences in in people living in these like metropolitan areas and what they want versus what people think it's actually like what stood out to me when i first moved here though aside from it being grossly under-populated was the
00:18:21
Speaker
Um, very pronounced amount of public art, the murals. Oh, yeah. That was very new to me. That was very new to me. Very, very new. And I appreciate it. I really do because I don't see that back home. Um, yeah, totally. There's one right behind the school. There's like a huge mural right behind the school. You can see from the playground and the school itself has tons of art on it. Yeah. Which I love because art is just.
00:18:51
Speaker
It's amazing in every description. So even when you're suffering, I mean, art can, can lead you to think about a number of different components of the human condition. So I like that that's readily available and accessible in the city.
Style and Functionality in Teaching Attire
00:19:10
Speaker
Yeah. It's like it, you should be inundated with it really. Right. Right.
00:19:17
Speaker
So I guess now that we are back to the teaching, what do you wear going into the school? Hmm, it depends on the day. I mean, you know that. But for the most part is going to be something casual. Well, I shouldn't say casual, but something very relaxed.
00:19:41
Speaker
I might do a suit inside, but that's not every day. I try to get it in at least once a week. But I do like to have a jacket or a blazer to be more specific. Dress shoes, I wear tennis shoes maybe once or twice a week. Because, I mean, second graders, they do have you ripping and running, so I do need to be somewhat comfortable there.
00:20:09
Speaker
You have to be agile really. Yes. Yes. Yeah, you're much more athletic than than I am and you're and what you have to do daily basically, but It can be an intense job. Yes. Yes picking up kids. Oh And then I rarely ever I mean, you know, I'm always super tired when I'm sitting down like I'm really
00:20:37
Speaker
sitting down so having to stand all day is i have to factor that in when i'm thinking about style but i do i like to be comfortable and nice so yeah to say there are a few things i like i notice
00:20:57
Speaker
that are just great. Like I have taken the pencil in the pocket from you. I think it just is like, it just is an absurdist detail that I really connected with. So you mean just like a pocket full of pencils in the sack, in the sack coat, in the tweed jacket, just like in the waist pocket.
00:21:23
Speaker
Yeah. 10 pencils. Yeah. That's like 10 sharpened pencils. And it's practical. It's one of those form fits function type things because they never have pencils or rarely do they have pencils. And so to cut down on having to spend five minutes sharpening pencils, I'll just keep them on me. And it's fortunate that there's actually enough room in that both pockets as well. There's something in all of those pockets. Trust me.
00:21:50
Speaker
oh that's that's the coolest fucking thing on earth man like matt you have to say the quote about the purse about oh that the navy blazer is the like masculine version of the little black purse absolutely yeah yeah yeah i mean you can you can throw shit in all of the pockets both outer and inner and use that shit like
00:22:17
Speaker
Yeah, I've definitely gotten weird looks in my life because the dudes that I worked with had some, you know, like weirdness about using the pockets. And I'm like, dude, there's pockets. I'm using them. All right. They wouldn't be there for nothing. Well, I mean, exactly. Dude, like when, when we were getting, uh, you know, kind of researching and getting ready for the interview, like,
00:22:42
Speaker
Connor kind of kind of gave me a little bit of rundown, you know, because you guys know each other. And I was like, this is where the undercover style icon came from, because it's shit like this. Like, you're not, you're not trying to be a blog dude, or that's a dated fucking term. You're not trying to be an influencer, but like, you're wearing bullshit, looking cool and using it for its purpose. And I was like, this guy's fucking awesome.
00:23:16
Speaker
There's a non-verbal communication through clothing. You're not even giving it a second thought. You're just stuffing some pencils in your pocket because that makes sense. It would be different if I was out on the town or hanging out, but it's work still.
00:23:39
Speaker
You can still look nice, but you can't be too laid-back. Oh, absolutely. Then that's the communication, too. You show up to work, you don't really have it together. The students are very aware of that. If it's going to be a movie day, the kids know what's going on.
00:24:05
Speaker
and they will write they can tell right right they certainly that sense oh my goodness the awareness even though that they can't always articulate that or say it plainly they can certainly pick that up yeah you're absolutely right they're super super perceptive they really are like just little each one of them is a genius soaking yeah soaking it all in
00:24:31
Speaker
I was going to say one of the things that they talked to us about or at least stressed in particular when I was going through my teacher training was that you are like all day a model and I certainly grossly underestimated I grossly underestimated what they meant when they said that but you certainly are because
00:25:01
Speaker
they look at everything and notice and critique everything everything um which is i think a little bit more intense than walking down a runway or being in a catalog because people can actually see you and engage with you so one of those black things on your face mr connor one of those red things on your face mr connor
00:25:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's every single thing. They're not being mean about it. They're not even aware that rude is something that could be. It's just an innocuous question, basically. I have come across some kids, and this is why I tend to tone it down. I've certainly toned it down since I came to Sandtown, but some days I'll come in and they'll be like,
00:25:55
Speaker
Why do you look so nice? I remember one day George was like, he was like, where did you get those clothes? I was like, I don't even, I can't even remember what I had on that day, but it was just, you know, just a regular get up. And I was like, I don't even know. And then Kyle one day was like, why do you look so nice? I thought that that was pretty funny though. So yeah, because of that and me just trying to be sensitive, even though they do wear uniforms,
00:26:25
Speaker
I don't like to come and, you know, do it up. I just like to look, you know, pretty well put together. What's the, uh, what's the funniest thing the kids have roasted you for? As far as like shoes, shoes, shoes. Yeah. And when I say shoes, I mean sneakers because they all wear, you know, Nike's or, or Air Jordans or something, you know, the new, the newest latest.
00:26:53
Speaker
And me, I'm the complete opposite of that, at least at this age, because I don't find it useful at all. I'm not a sneaker head. Yeah. And so I have these, like, Rubak Club C's that I've had for a while, and they're like old and dirty and kind of grimy. And so they're like, oh, your shoes. They're talking. Your shoes are talking, Mr. Brown. Totally, dude. Totally. Yeah.
00:27:21
Speaker
That's pretty much it though if I'm dressed professionally, then they don't they tend to not say anything negative Which I like I appreciate that. I mean that I feel like that's kind of a Like a remarkable thing for what you teach second grade they don't have anything to say about
Musical Influences and Personal Outlook
00:27:47
Speaker
So what, uh, Connor has told me that you're kind of a music aficionado. And so like music and clothing for us on the show always has a tie in with each other. So what, what kind of music are you into and, um, how do you, you know, think that's influenced your style over the years? Hmm.
00:28:15
Speaker
That's a good question. I know that's that's a hard question, but So I would love to say that trap music is number one, but it's not We all enjoy it from time to time, you know And of course me being from you know, where I'm from is I do love it Don't get me wrong and I think a lot of people kind of
00:28:40
Speaker
I think that it's important. It's what I like, the lyrics, and of course I do like the rhythm. Oh, absolutely. Some of that 90s R&B is pretty good, but I think number one is indie rock. Okay. Yeah, I love indie rock. I love rock music. I really do. I really, really do. There's a band, you all have probably heard of them, Krongbin. I love all of their albums. It's a guy, two guys and a girl.
00:29:09
Speaker
I like Dave Matthews to us is that I don't I'm not really sure what genre that is. Is that like bluegrass? Yeah, I guess adult rock Yeah, I'm pretty I'm pretty invested in the rock category Yeah, I like rock music with a little bit of trap thrown in sometimes
00:29:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. You're from, like you said, you're from Atlanta. You gotta love that to an extent. I'll tell you that I've only been in Tennessee once, but country music is growing on me. Oh, fuck yeah, dude. My dad used to listen to some country. He listened to a lot of blues and a lot of jazz. And I appreciate those two, respectively. But I like the
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, he listened to a lot of country or some country blues and jazz. I think jazz is his favorite genre. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a nice like staple of shit. And, you know, did you did you see some of those guys grow like the pictures of them growing up? And, you know, the other musicians that you've been into that that play a little bit of role and
00:30:31
Speaker
how you wanted to perceive yourself? Absolutely. Well, not necessarily aesthetically, but I did appreciate just their posturing, the things that they said in their outlooks on life. The neo soul artists, which are somewhat like R&B artists, but not so much. We've always kind of viewed them as being
00:30:59
Speaker
what we now say woke the term back then was conscious. And I think some people still say conscious, but I appreciate that because there was a respect for awareness and always a very important theme in the things that they did or in the music that they created. And so even if I wasn't really down with what they were wearing, I would certainly be aligned with their outlook on life.
00:31:25
Speaker
Yeah. Like what kind of, what kind of artists are we talking about here? I was about to say, I'm thinking about Andre 3000. Hell yeah. I'm thinking about Music Soulchild. Luther Vandross for certain, although he's more so R&B. Yeah, certainly. My parents loved a lot of those male singers. Smokey Robinson for certain.
00:31:51
Speaker
Earth, wind and fire. Yeah, dude. They just played in Baltimore last night. Really? Yeah. Wow. I don't know where they just played last night. You all should probably see this. Yeah. Yeah. There's some pretty some pretty good artists in in Atlanta and in the South in general.
00:32:19
Speaker
Totally, man, totally. Typically understated. Yeah, yeah. What was it Andre said? Alanis got something to say at the Grammys in like 2000. That to me is a part of growing up in the South, is being exposed to like
00:32:41
Speaker
all of this insane, just remarkable music across a million different genres. And it's like, oh, you can kind of feel like, oh, this influences this, influences that. And it's all interconnected. I've read on Wikipedia, and you can take that with a grain of salt. I think everything on Wikipedia is true. That's what I tell the students. It's all true.
00:33:12
Speaker
But there was a line on the page about the Southeastern United States that it's the most written about part of the country. I think that's really interesting because it's hard to divorce myself from that culture because that is who I am. But I do sometimes try to look at it objectively.
00:33:40
Speaker
And I came across these two rappers from, where are they from? New Orleans. The Suicide Boys. Two white guys. Really, really, really good though. Like super, super, super good music. And they kind of talk about or write about themes like dystopia or I guess like the
00:34:04
Speaker
the industrial revolution and how the plantation kind of fell apart and how society fell by the wayside and all of the mania that came with that or the rage that came with that. And I think that that's pretty interesting. Of course, they talk about addiction and drug use, recreational drug use. But those themes I've seen represented in a number of different writers and musicians and artists in general.
00:34:35
Speaker
So I don't know, I think a lot of people had a pretty tough time once the Civil War ended. Yeah, certainly. And it was expressed quite strongly. And I recognize that people wish things were the way they were back then, although none of us were living then. I don't know how we can assume that that was better.
00:35:03
Speaker
I can respect people's preferences, yeah? Yeah, yeah. I'm sure you've come across, I'm sure you've probably come across a Southerner that has something to say about today's times and how times were better back then. Yeah, far more than I would like, but such is the part of being in a society. Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:30
Speaker
That's one way of thinking about it. Right, right, you know. If you're in the South, it's inevitable, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah, of course. I mean, it's pervasive. Right. Something... We just found out... What? Oh, no. I was just gonna say, we just found out someone in our family has Confederate flag tattoo. Oh, sweet. Yeah, distantly. But even so, it's like...
00:36:00
Speaker
What are you doing? There was a large debate. We used to have some really interesting conversations back in like elementary and middle school because we, there were two girls, two sisters. Um, one was in our grade and the other one was a bit older who wore those. You may have seen them before Matt, um, the Dixie chicks.
00:36:24
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're pretty common. Yeah. This is this is pre George W. Bush and then speaking out about it. Yes. Right. Right. Right. And people would be like, well, why are you wearing that? You know what? Most black people didn't say anything, but just other white people would be like, well, why are you you know, what's the deal? And they're like, I'm proud to be Southern and I appreciate it. And I didn't feel any particular way about it at the time. And I don't I don't right now because, you know,
00:36:56
Speaker
I just don't feel that I can control what somebody else thinks, but I just used to think like, wow, you know, you really have a connection to this, to all of what this represents. Like, okay. And they were, I mean, they were agreeable girl. They weren't, like, you know, they weren't mean or anything. Right. Yeah. It's kind of like,
00:37:22
Speaker
I don't know. The word Dixie just has the words connotations at this point. And aesthetically, it's a good word. Maybe originally it would have been a good word without its connotations. But yeah, thankfully that's kind of died a little bit. It's so hard to separate words like that. Oh, totally. Totally.
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah, there have been efforts to reclaim the word Nazi, for example, that have had some measurable success, I suppose, but it still is like, who is, I don't know, who is trying, I mean, we know who is trying to bring it back, right? Yeah. Not the people that we necessarily want to be around.
00:38:15
Speaker
Not the listeners of this show, certainly. No, certainly.
Sourcing Quality Wardrobe
00:38:21
Speaker
So, William, how do you acquire a good percentage of your clothing? Do you thrift? Do you buy secondhand? Does that play into it at all? Yeah. I would say that maybe 40% of my wardrobe came from
00:38:44
Speaker
my dad or like my uncles. Oh, that's sick. Yeah. And then I would say another 30% was either consignment or, you know, secondhand thrifting. And then the rest I was just get off the rack. Yeah. I'm brand new, which I don't tend to like to do that. Um, because
00:39:08
Speaker
unless it's a really, really nice fashion house. But if it's from a department store, it's... Yeah. There's a very big gray area with buying stuff at big box stores. What kind of stuff did you get from your dad and your grandpa, you said? Yeah, lots of military jackets. Oh, yeah. Speaking my language.
00:39:38
Speaker
suit, which is very, very hyper masculine looking. Like, you don't even have to do much. Right, right. Yeah. And they're also very warm. So I do appreciate I've actually been to what do they call army supply stores to get like belts and shoes. Oh, yeah. Because they are very, very practical.
00:40:02
Speaker
Um, tons of ties. Um, my father's a lot larger than me, so I can't wear his dress shirts, but, uh, other accessories. Um, his shoes size is smaller than mine. Some suits, some suits when he was, he used to be my size. And so there's some suits he's had for some time that he's passed down. Um, yeah, that's pretty much it though. Sweaters, tons of sweaters.
00:40:32
Speaker
This, what are this, cardigans. So this is the heh, this is the heirloom clothing that we were talking about in the lead up to this show. Um, some of the sort of cultural differences in thrifting. And, um, we talked about clothes being passed down, as you said. I was wondering if you had, if you had anything else to say about that?
00:41:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a very fortunate circumstance to be in, in particular if the items are of good quality. And I appreciate that he was able to be. Yeah, totally. Totally. Both of my parents, honestly, teaching me that the fabric, of course, is important. The color is important. The cut is important.
00:41:29
Speaker
the seamstress can always alter that for you. But when you start there and then venture out to whichever designer you like or whichever department store you like, I think things get a little bit easier. When I go to stores now, I always check, not the label to see who made it, but what is it made out of? Right, totally. Because it's not worth it to me, at least in the long run, to use
00:41:58
Speaker
Synthetic fibers, I mean I have some things but for the most part they just they don't hold up. They really don't I Am anti polyester I will be on record. I will yeah. Yeah, same polyester forever And now it's here forever. Yeah
00:42:27
Speaker
Yeah, I understand that like some of the best, you know, vintage t-shirts are 50-50 cotton poly. I refuse to wear them. I cannot do, about the only thing I can do with any polyester in it is like a hoodie or a sweatshirt. I will go on record as being anti-polyester. I remember.
00:42:55
Speaker
I remember the first time I ever got a cashmere sweater and my mom had gotten it. It was around like Black Friday, so it was on sale. And when I felt it, it was like, I was like, what is it? Right. Because it was so light for it to be as big as it was. And I was just dumbfounded that things could feel like that and be
00:43:22
Speaker
And look great, you know, so textiles are really, I love that part about clothing as well. Yeah. It's also like, that's not really a thing that I feel like the general population thinks about. Like, yeah, you had this instilled in you and it's like, mom and dad showed you how to be discernible with like how something feels. And that's fucking awesome.
00:43:49
Speaker
Yeah, I love the way certain things feel like linen. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, we don't I don't get that much of an opportunity. Like I do back home. Right. Yeah. So it's gonna be a linen time. It's gonna be learning the time pretty soon in the school. Oh, I love that. I love that. Yeah. I'm a big linen fan. Dude.
00:44:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's good. It's great. It's a great fabric and people say like oh, it gets wrinkly. I am a person The wrinkles make you want it to not yeah. Yeah, I wanna It's nice. It's a nice thing and it's not it doesn't make you feel horrible when you're wearing Yeah, that's and that adds some of the science into it too because many of these fabrics of course they've been I
00:44:44
Speaker
They've evolved over time from different cultures. But the utility, again, being breathable. Because I always joke with my friends, when people came to the United States, and in particular, like in the Gulf area, I'm sure that they were just suffering beyond description. Can you imagine how hot Savannah and New Orleans was compared to England? Right, right. By goodness, by goodness.
00:45:14
Speaker
I don't see how they made it. I don't. I don't either, man. I do not either. So much of it is like unbelievable. Like, why did you walk that thing so far? Whatever. Then the opposite, you know, you get the opposite of like Minnesota, where people just kept going north and they're like, Oh yeah, fuck this. This feels good. I'm like, how on earth?
00:45:49
Speaker
Well, this has been a really fun conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's always a pleasure to meet someone that's also from Atlanta, South. But we, the last question we wanted to ask was, do you have a favorite article of clothing?
00:46:12
Speaker
A favorite article of clothing. I did. Or footwear. Whatever. But is there something that you're just like, you know, dot on? Yes. I did, but I lost it. Oh, no. Yeah, it was a navy blue and like a burgundy. I think that Jay Press calls them schoolboy scarves. Very thick.
00:46:40
Speaker
It just looks, it was really, really nice. Every time I wear that, people always compliment me. But it was warm too. Yeah. And so I don't want to buy a replacement, but I think I have to because it was just, I just really like it that much.
00:46:56
Speaker
That might be the saddest answer to this question we've gotten yet. If I happen to come across one of these scars, I will send it to you in no charge. Thank you so much.
00:47:17
Speaker
All right, just to kind of wrap things up here, we always like to get the guests a chance to shout out whatever they may want to. So have at it. Sure. So my Instagram handle is waf, w-a-f dot ink, i-n-c. If you'd like to go there to see some different photographs. I'm the guy with the high top fade.
00:47:46
Speaker
Yeah And then I have a website Hunt h-u-n-t and hab hab comm Which I guess would technically be a blog but it talks a bit more about Just social issues and politics related to black men So yeah, if you would like to connect on either of those and you're more than welcome and thanks so much for the opportunity guys
00:48:13
Speaker
Thank you again for coming on. This was a hell of a fun conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Appreciate it. So everybody, thank you for listening. apocalypsestuds.com. If you have questions, comments, concerns, we still get very few emails. So just say this is a fucking meme. I don't get the shit.
00:48:41
Speaker
I am Matt Smith, at Rebels Rogues. And I'm Connor Fowler, at Connor Fowler. And Adam Ocklow of Studs on Instagram. And yeah, thanks again for listening.