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Respect the Game with Chris Walker
68 Plays1 year ago
This week we had a fantastic conversation with music archivist, collector, and all around wonderful human, Chris Walker. He takes us through his clothing evolution, what it’s like being the child of a diplomat during civil unrest, paying your respects to your vintage items, hanging out with Ian MacKaye, and a whole lot more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Unexpected Travels
00:01:16
Speaker
Hi, I'm Connor Fowler and I'm Matt Smith
00:01:20
Speaker
Welcome to Apocalypse Duts. Good evening, good afternoon, good morning, whatever time zone it is. If you've been paying attention, you will notice that we were going for a little while and now we're back. I was in Florida, which is a place that I, and I used to say this all the time, I swear I will never go to Florida. And then I went to see.
00:01:46
Speaker
It was fine. There were not as many Confederate flags as I expected. There wasn't really any, like, bullshit. It was just kind of fine. Like, it was just going to the beach in a normal way, but the Gulf of Mexico is, like, eight different.
00:02:03
Speaker
oh it's it's so much nicer and it's it's yeah like swimming in the Atlantic it's like swimming in a massive fucking lake you can't see your goddamn feet you don't know what what these things brushing up against you are are they trash are they seaweed are they very scary is it a shark yeah yeah is it a shark uh in the gulf of mexico the only good point of florida is that one of the waters is the gulf of mexico
00:02:31
Speaker
And you can see your fucking feet!
Travel Troubles and Local Culture
00:02:32
Speaker
You don't have to walk on this shit.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And it was nice. I didn't lose my glasses in the surf. I didn't lose anything. Not. So it was pretty good. And then so we fast forward. Of course, there can't be good without something bad. The I will spare you the details. The flights get fucked up. American Airlines is fucking us over. We're staying in Florida for a day. We're staying in Florida for another day. Just dreadful. And then. Yeah.
00:03:02
Speaker
American Airlines offers us ultimately for the two tickets, $25. Yeah. Yeah. As compensation for like them fucking it up.
00:03:13
Speaker
Because weather. Weather. Yeah. No, no, no. Because of a crew chain. Oh, right. Right. Crew. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Truthfully, not because of the weather. But I digress, whatever. Yeah. We're out of that now. And we're at least I am back in Baltimore where I fucking belong.
00:03:33
Speaker
If there is anyone listening that works for American Airlines in any capacity, tell your boss to tell their boss to tell their boss, et cetera, et cetera, to go fuck themselves. Or to hook me up with another $25 credit. Right. Or to hook us up with another. If you give us $50, we call it a day.
00:03:51
Speaker
Right, right, yeah. While Connor was suffering- So what about you, Matt? Yeah, while you were suffering the bowels of fucking Ford, which on the record, there is no amount of money, booze, or drugs on the face of the earth that would make me
00:04:08
Speaker
go to that place ever again, but I digress. I was up picking in central Tennessee and central Kentucky, and it was fucking great. The weather was so much nicer. My friend Elle and I camped for a couple of nights, and it's nice to wake up being chilly.
00:04:30
Speaker
Shout out to Elle, she is the best, the opportunity shop on Instagram for all your wonderful women's wear needs, and a little bit of men's wear. But yeah, it was a great time. We always eat basic ass Mexican food, which is personally my favorite, and there's one spot. Anytime I think about this, we eat this every year. They have a veggie shimichanga, which is just chef's kiss.
00:04:58
Speaker
It's got tons of fajita veggies, got some mushrooms, got some squash. It's just a fucking bomb. So yeah, we pick and eat Mexican food and go through southern Appalachia.
00:05:13
Speaker
And to be honest, like, I've kind of fallen in love with, like, Central Kentucky. Lots of really rad people that dig these things out of, like, rivers and caves and shit that are billions of years old called geodes. And it's basically a rock, but when you crack it, it has, like, crystallized shit inside. I don't know what it is. There's gold in the geode!
00:05:35
Speaker
Yeah. There's no gold, but like these things are fucking beautiful. And like, you know, like we met this, uh, we met this one lady that literally had four to 5,000 of these that she had dug out herself. Um, and was just like selling them for, I think one, $1 for a small one or $5 for a big one. Uh, and like just those kinds of people, like really rad folks that, uh, salt of the earth.
00:06:04
Speaker
Salt of the Earth, but also oddly progressive and correct thinking about a lot of shit. We heard- Well, I don't think that Salt of the Earth necessarily means- Definitely not. But I feel like when people think of Kentucky, when they think of the South, they think that it's all racist assholes. That's like, grandpappy was in the KKK. And you're like, no. Red decks come from a long line of
00:06:33
Speaker
Union and whatever the fuck supporters, they were radicals in their day and a lot of these people are descended from that and that exists so much in the south but never gets talked about. Or rarely gets talked about. But we heard some random old dude talking about how
00:06:54
Speaker
what we did to indigenous people was super fucked up because we have them smallpox blankets and shit. And you're like, motherfucker, I'm in the middle of nowhere, Kentucky. And this dude is talking about that. Like, that's fucking cool. Yeah. South. I mean, it's really, it's really, it's really never discussed.
00:07:11
Speaker
it's it's really discussed and when it is it's like it's talked about in a very pejorative way because it's like oh this is a normal and it's like yeah motherfucker this is normal like there are tons of good people that are confederate worshipers in the fucking south because that's where you know that's where a lot of radical shit went down and was born but i guess kentuckians if there's any of you listening
00:07:37
Speaker
I love your fucking state. I would move there in a heartbeat for some like one room shack on a forgotten highway. But yeah, that's what we've been up to the past couple of weeks. And yeah, thanks for listening.
Upcoming Guests and Support
00:07:51
Speaker
We have a fucking killer show coming up this week with a gentleman that I've known for a few years named Chris Walker. He is a minor Instagram celebrity.
00:08:05
Speaker
Not really, but if you like Americana vintage you probably know Chris and yeah, we had a great conversation Extremely well-dressed extremely super high production value on the fit pics very nice shout out posts to people who he admires which is just like so obvious that it like
00:08:32
Speaker
If we lived in a perfect world, there would be more tribute posts to people. But we don't. But Chris lives in that perfect world. And if you want to experience that, then our show is a good one. Yes, it is. And if this were a perfect world, more people like Chris would exist. But
00:08:50
Speaker
You know, we can only do what we can do. But yeah, we hope you enjoy the show. If you would like to send us some support, we do this because we love it. But hey man, if you like what you hear, send us a couple of bucks. Like, everything helps. Connor's been my one buck. Or one buck. Yeah, we don't give a shit. At Connor's Hour.
00:09:13
Speaker
So, Connor's Venmo is at Connor-Fowler. His PayPal is ConnorFowler at gmail.com. And, yeah, thank you so much. Also, keep submitting your early ensembles, old fit pictures. We love those. It's fun as shit to see everyone's evolution.
00:09:33
Speaker
Well, if you've got like a baby picture where you have on a funny outfit, we like to see that. We want to see your seven years old. You have a costume that your grandma made. You first realized that clothing could be made by people and not by machines. And it led you to this. You see where this goes. So there's a lot in those pictures. So please send them to us. Please, please send them to us. And as always, thank you for listening and enjoy the episode.
00:10:00
Speaker
Greetings and welcome. Today, our special guest, musical archivist, the Denim Daddy, the triumphant Troubadour, the conscientious collector, and all around nice guy, Christopher Walker, at Dad's Style. Chris, welcome to the show. How do you do? Well, hello, Connor. Thank you for that fantastic intro. It's always an amazing intro to bring all your guests in right into the fold so that everybody can know who they are and where they're coming from. I'm doing well. How are the two of you?
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah, but I have an ear infection. Oh, yeah. Are you just running on one headphone right now? Yeah, dude, I'm in the show in mono in my right ear, which is like weird and annoying. But the doctor told me to not put the headphones into the ear, which I was like, what? But it makes sense, I guess, because your earbuds are dirty.
00:10:50
Speaker
Totally, totally. I'm doing much better than Connor is. It is not nearly as hot and humid as it has been. And I had a nice morning drinking coffee on the porch. So solid, solid day. So the first question we usually do is a two parter. Where are you from and where do you live now?
Cultural Comparisons and Etiquette
00:11:14
Speaker
Uh, let's see. So I was born in Washington, DC, um, and then lived kind of in Latin America, Central and South America growing up. My father was in the foreign service. So bounced around Bolivia, Honduras and El Salvador. And I spent some, you know, with a couple of years here and there back in like Rockville, Maryland, that was kind of like our home base. Um, don't go back to wrong. Then I know the thing is, is that I did go back to Rockville multiple times. I was like, Michael, start, you know,
00:11:42
Speaker
You don't tell me what to fucking do, Michael Stipe. I even fucking moved there when I started a family. My wife and I moved there, bought a house. I'm like, well, I guess I'm in Rockville now. Time to raise some kids. But now currently, actually, in 2020, we packed up and moved all the way to San Francisco, which is where I am right now.
00:12:04
Speaker
Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. I mean, as someone Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, I love the East Coast. But I also have had like good times on the West Coast over the years. Like what are what are the differences for you? Like San Francisco versus like outside DC metro area seems kind of started.
00:12:22
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. The weather is a big one. Summertime, it gets cold and you're wearing as many sweaters as possible. It's such a layer game out here, which is cool. I'm down with layers. Never know. We just drove to drop off a piece of medical equipment. We had a
00:12:42
Speaker
medical bed for my wife's grandmother and we were like going to donate it to this church and just driving 15 minutes the complete it's a complete change temperature wise. I drive down to Palo Alto for my work.
00:12:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's fucking like in the 80s. And then I'll drive back to the city and it's in the like low 60s. And it's chilly and that crazy sort of like, like, like whiplash weather wise, every single day is kind of rough. But it's also cool shit because this place is like you don't like the weather, just get in your car and drive a little bit and you're going to be in a complete
00:13:16
Speaker
The variation to environment out here is insane. And being by the ocean and just how beautiful it is is also pretty incredible. Totally, totally. And also NorCal is so much better than SoCal in my opinion, so. I've actually spent no time in Southern California. You know my father kind of grew up there. No? Yeah. Sorry, LA, San Diego, whatever the fuck people. Love y'all. Hate the fucking area. Can't do it. Really? What do you just like about it?
00:13:45
Speaker
So like, LA basically reminds me of a bigger Atlanta. It takes, like, it's a massive, like, sprawling metro area that takes so fucking long to go anywhere. It's like, yo, I want to go get a coffee. The place is a mile and a half away. It's going to take me 25 minutes to get there for some dumb fuck reason. Yeah, I don't know. San Diego is better, but I just really do not like LA at all.
00:14:11
Speaker
Yeah, sorry to go on that LA tangent. No. Well, I can't say that I am like that endeared to it, you know, at least from knowing what I know. I don't want to be in a car that much. Yeah, me too. There isn't a car in the world that I would want to be in that much. Right. And of course we sit in some of the worst traffic in the country in Baltimore DC area. So really just kind of is what it is. Yeah.
00:14:39
Speaker
So Connor, are you like, are you from Baltimore? I wish I am from a little town outside of Annapolis called Riva. Um, but I moved to Baltimore to go to school and I have been here ever since and have become something of an evangelist for the city. Cause it's a great town. It is for sure. It's a cool place.
00:15:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it really like, I don't know, I will say not a lot about it, but I feel like I have to because it's an underdog. It is like an internationally reviled place. And that is good. Like that is a good thing. That is a chip on our shoulder. I think people hate us. Don't come here. Yeah, shit.
00:15:26
Speaker
I didn't know there was Baltimore hate. There's a ton, dude. The biggest news organization on the planet names Baltimore as a failure, like names Baltimore as an example of what not to do in America. And so it's shorthand for many, many people for a failed American city. And just, I mean, it kind of is that way, but it isn't precisely that way.
00:15:49
Speaker
No, it's not fair. It's yeah, it's just it doesn't give all of the structural and systemic stuff, the credit, their credit, right? Like the racism and the class and all of that other stuff.
00:16:02
Speaker
Yeah, I went up in March just to piggyback quickly on what Connor said. And like, I love Atlanta. Atlanta is my favorite fucking city on the planet. I've been here for, you know, outside of a few years, but in Brooklyn, I've been here since basically 2001. And Baltimore reminds me of a lot of what old Atlanta was like and what like made me love the city. Like it's urban and like,
00:16:30
Speaker
You know, there's tons of street art and just like cool fucking people doing cool fucking shit. And it's like, you know, it's shit on, like both places. Atlanta is now like developer central in a lot of ways, which really fucking sucks because it just pushes out the artists and the cool ass people, like further, you know, further out toward the suburbs, which are also exorbitantly expensive. But yeah. Well, there are a majority black cities
00:16:56
Speaker
Yeah, that is the that is like the main reason that they are a majority black city and they're a place where black people can live nice lives. Yep, yep, yep. Anyway, we decorates. We could talk about the show. So something really briefly that I did notice out here and I can't tell if it's just like,
00:17:18
Speaker
something that I'd never noticed before, whatever. I'm always constantly asking myself, is this an East Coast versus West Coast thing or what the fuck is going on? But people here on the sidewalk, I will constantly be going for a walk and I'll
00:17:32
Speaker
look up and there'll be somebody right in front of me like we're about to collide and it's and i it's like do you like you walk on the right side of the sidewalk right like that's aren't you supposed to walk away dude the fuck that does not happen out here people are constantly walking on the left side and i'm always like holy shit you almost bumped into me what the fuck are you doing on my side of the sidewalk god damn it
00:17:52
Speaker
It's like driving outside of the city. You drive on the right side of the road. I'm sure there are other places that also drive on the left. But for all intents and purposes. I think there's only one.
00:18:05
Speaker
I feel like, okay, maybe, maybe. Anyway, like you walk like on, on the right side and then you walk the opposite way on the left side. Like it's not fucking right. Yeah. Yeah. People use their fucking shit. If you walked into them or almost walked into them because your dumb ass was going against the flow. Like fuck you. Fuck you.
00:18:28
Speaker
are we in against the flow show i mean we are but but in this context the flow is the correct way because i'm a fast walker walking we are rigid we are i'm not i am not so we have to take my car on the other side of the road
00:18:47
Speaker
There have to be rules of that kind of thing in a functioning society, which is still questionable. But this is one of the hills I will die on. You walk on the right side of the fucking sidewalk.
00:18:58
Speaker
Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Yeah. I'm glad that's established.
Childhood Memories and Influences
00:19:03
Speaker
Fuck yeah. So to get back, what has become a regular feature on our show, we ask people for their first clothing memory, what was the, what is the first thing that you go way back and you think, Oh my God, this is my, this is my clothing. Um, I guess catalyst, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I have earliest specter of clothing in the notes, which may be, uh,
00:19:28
Speaker
doesn't work or maybe it does it does to me like i this one was an interesting one because i it like popped a memory in my mind that i had not thought of or even realize was there which i always love so my first real x i had to go back go back dig dig dig to try to think of my earliest time when i became like aware of an item of clothing you know like
00:19:49
Speaker
When I was growing up, I didn't care about clothes. And for school, I had to wear uniforms and stuff like that. So like I never really had to. It was not a art is not a personal expression for a personal question, but what I did want.
00:20:01
Speaker
was a pair of these like Reebok pump sneakers. Did you guys know those things? Sure. Yes. Those are the... I begged my parents, please, please, please for the love of God, give me a pair of Reebok pumps. The one with the tennis ball, not the one with the basketball. And the feeling of like pumping it up and your foot getting tighter and like the sound of releasing the air and the sound of the air pumping in. I mean, I finally got a pair and I wore them till they completely fell apart.
00:20:31
Speaker
Nice. Nice. Those were the Andre Agassi version. Wait. Yeah. They had like a neon yellow tennis ball on them. Yep. Yep. Yeah. I'm pretty sure those were Agassi. And then I want to say that Pete Sampras was sponsored by Nike. I could be completely wrong. I remember these. Dude, the fucking like Pete Sampras Andre Agassi like thing that was the 90s tennis. Oh my God. It was amazing. It's like Andre Agassi.
00:21:01
Speaker
No, no, no, go on. He was like the bad boy, right? He had like the long hair that was like... He took over the McEnroe type of vibe.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yes, yeah. I was just going to say how much of the research about these puff-up shoes do you think holds water? The Nike shock, for example, the Nike shock, the off-top Nike shock, I mean, is it the same as the Nike shock or is there really something too inflating the sneaker around your foot?
00:21:36
Speaker
I don't know. I've never played, I played basketball in rehab. I realized how hard it was. I never had such an, I had never had such an admiration for a basketball player in my life as I did when I was trying to hurl a basketball like three feet. It's like a fucking rock.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah, you're throwing this like thing through the hoop is it's fucking difficult. It's like when I when you put your wrap your mind around pretty much all sports like baseball, the guy is throwing that really small, extremely hard ball very fast at you and you're hitting with this like stick. It's kind of crazy. Yeah, your hand eye coordination has to be so
00:22:14
Speaker
on point that you actually in like major league baseball, you have to start swinging before the pitcher has even left, has even thrown the ball. It's kind of insane. And like tennis, they're serving in like 100 mile per hour serves. Have you ever played tennis against somebody who like is really good?
00:22:30
Speaker
Oh, it's competent. No, it's like, holy shit. It's it's fucking it's terrifying for one thing. Like when they serve that I played this woman once and she would serve and I'm like waiting for the ball and I could hear it hit the chain fence behind me. Like when the fuck did the ball come past me? I didn't even see it. Yeah, that's just like the Nintendo 64 tennis game and like the ball is on fire.
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah, basically exactly. It's very scary. It's really like, I don't know, all that kind of shit. I just saw I don't do it, you know? Not even an armchair quarterback, just an armchair.
00:23:06
Speaker
Yeah. Do you have any sport that you play at all? Anything? I played lacrosse when I was a boy, like many people in Maryland do. But I was like, I do not want to do this. I played soccer too. I mean, it's big in that area, of course.
00:23:29
Speaker
But it just was mostly like dad screaming. Mm hmm. Yeah. Seemed to be like the majority of the majority of the game was like dad screaming for some reason. And I don't mean and I'm not trying to be like, oh, my God, sports ball, you know, but like it just is not my shit, you know. Yeah. Matt, did you ever play sports?
00:23:50
Speaker
Um, I did, um, I played from a very young age, baseball, basketball. Uh, I was never allowed to play football. Um, and then like, I think we got soccer leagues when I was like nine. And so I played soccer and then also tennis, uh, for a very long time. Um, soccer was always my favorite. Uh, and tennis, like you said.
00:24:14
Speaker
Tennis, like you said, is insanely difficult. Soccer was difficult for sure, but I was like a defender or a midfielder. And so I basically just got to slide tackle people, which was fucking sick. But yeah, once I found the music... Is it art to a slide tackle?
00:24:35
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. And like, you know, this was, this was like World Cup 94 era. So like, soccer became huge in the US. And so like, I watched, you know, I watched the World Cup being a player and was like, fuck, these guys are going hard. So yeah, that, that was always the fun part, because I couldn't play football. And so like, this was like second best.
00:25:02
Speaker
You're in football. So Chris, I was going to bring this thing up. My cousin, Colin, is the son of a diplomat, basically. So he grew up all over the places you did and did the whole thing. He ran around the Coliseum when he was in high school to practice running, like that kind of shit, you know?
00:25:26
Speaker
So I was wondering if you had any juicy gems of your well-traveled youth. For sure. For sure. That example that you use of a person running laps around the Coliseum is, in my mind, the perfect example of what living overseas is like. It's the juxtaposition of something mundane and ordinary with the completely extraordinary.
00:25:57
Speaker
So the last place that I lived, even though I was only there for three years in El Salvador, is like what I think of when I think of being a child. Almost all my memories are concentrated in that time. It was a very, very extreme period in my life. There was a civil war that was happening. It was like an incredibly violent, it was like that sort of tail end of the war after eight or nine years of just vicious bloody
00:26:20
Speaker
horror. So everything and my father was the ambassador there. So it was like, I remember not knowing what we were getting into really, you know, just being I was eight when we moved there, and being set aside and being told like, look, you know, you're a target. People are going to try to get to you to get to your father. So like, you know, and just being a kid and being like, holy shit, what the fuck, you know, like, it was walls everywhere. There was there was
00:26:48
Speaker
walls with razor wire and a broken glass that is like put it into the cement so that like anybody trying to get over they would cut themselves it was you could never go down the street you know there's no I didn't ride a bike for three years I didn't go on a walk I like had a skateboard I took with me that I didn't get to use because there was just not enough concrete for it
00:27:07
Speaker
you would ride in armored cars and stuff like that. I mean, it's the kind of place where you'd basically go from one wall to another, and when you get to the gate, people would come out and look under your car for bombs. They were checking to see if you were going to be bringing anything intentionally or not. And I think so. It was this very fucking crazy-ass place, but it was juxtaposed with just regular going to school, playing tetherballs, swimming in a pool, going.
00:27:34
Speaker
also living this like very strange privileged life but in the backdrop there's like so uh you would be out playing soccer or whatever is like recess for the kids and uh there would be like a this would be like a common thing where a bomb would go off boom
00:27:50
Speaker
And everybody would just fucking stop what they were doing. You know, the birds would stop singing and everything like that. And you would just sort of, everybody would kind of look in the direction of the bomb. And you would like hear it and then you would feel it kind of thing. And everybody would be just sort of waiting to hear if there was another one. And if there was another one, you would do a real quick calculation to see if it got closer or not.
00:28:09
Speaker
and if it got closer then everybody it's time to go inside kind of thing and then if there wasn't another blast then like slowly the life would kind of like like somebody would be like turning the music back on like turning the sound back onto the world the birds would start chirping again the soccer games would pick back up the like sound of kids playing would all kind of like pick back up and that was just like a common thing yeah no that's like i guess uh an unfun childhood child of a diplomat story like um
00:28:39
Speaker
yeah you know i'm here basically even if you have a fucking armored car what is the matter totally is it was terror and trauma but at the same time it made everything very sort of like. Exciting in a way you know like like i describe it like.
00:28:57
Speaker
It made that period of my life be almost like some weird mixture of a movie with real life. You kind of think, damn, did I really experience those things? Because of my father's position, there would be a lot of invites to these dormant volcano
00:29:17
Speaker
lakes that we would swim in, Ilopango and Patapeque or like go to like these beach houses you'd go on the beach and there'd be literally nobody on the beach you'd have to go like but you were riding in an armored vehicle with a convoy of like people and I mean it was just like
00:29:35
Speaker
war guns military camo bullets was like the ankle pistols like those kind of like 80s mustaches and the 80s holsters that was like that was my life constantly it was it was it was fucking wild and crazy but like
00:29:50
Speaker
There would be a marine stationed in the residence, so they would have their eight-hour shifts. So there would be U.S. Marines, and I would come home from school, go and hang out with whoever was there. I became friends with these guys. They were early 20s from all over the United States.
00:30:08
Speaker
You know, when you live overseas, anything that is American, you just kind of like it represents home. So you want to like talk about it, find out about it. Heard about the Simpsons through these guys. They like would show me how to like, wow, lean guns and stuff like that, like how to take apart a pistol and put it back together and oil and stuff. I mean, it was a fucking crazy, crazy experience. But I look back on it very young. Yeah, I was very young. I was very young. There was a.
00:30:35
Speaker
There was actually a part where it did get very, very scary where there was a, where the FMLN, which are the other side, the fight, the group that was trying to overthrow the government, they like kind of had sort of had their breaking point. They'd been fighting all the fights, the wars had been going on in the hills outside of the capital city. And like, there'd be like bombs that would go off at restaurants and different targets. But there was a, they kind of,
00:31:02
Speaker
gather together and siege the city for like nine months something like that but you know it was a surprise attack and the first night they attacked the president's residence and they talked to our residents and we sat in basically a closet for two or three straight days without coming out you know this closet was behind multiple steel doors and filled with radios just as they were like attacking our house worried that they were gonna breach it that kind of shit you know
00:31:31
Speaker
And eventually they were pushed back and then it became what was called the offensive. And eventually it got so bad that they had to evacuate all of the families of AIG and Foreign Service and military that were there. That's remarkable, yeah. Yeah, it was great.
00:31:52
Speaker
Well, it's pretty wild. Okay. So Chris, you mentioned, um, cammo a couple of minutes ago, uh, you know, with the, the service members that you were around, like, do you kind of tie your love of camouflage now back into that?
Camouflage Patterns and Career Overview
00:32:10
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we should, especially as we move through vintage clothing, as if this is like a passion of ours, we should always be sort of asking, like, why, or, you know, trying to figure out
00:32:26
Speaker
the reasons for sometimes it's a justification or whatever but for like for camo you know like i'm not a hunter or a violent person by any means uh but the the camo is a it is a reference to growing up surrounded by it el Salvador military camo at the time
00:32:45
Speaker
Reminded me a lot of a tiger stripe. So when I saw tiger stripe that became instantly like okay this is the camouflage pattern that I want to know as much as I can about research and figure out what I can and then try to figure out if I can obtain something also growing up
00:33:02
Speaker
in that tropical area in the 80s. It's when you saw a lot of Hollywood films about Vietnam. I've watched Full Metal Jacket a lot when I was a kid. And Platoon, born on the 4th of July.
00:33:20
Speaker
casualties of war, you know, it was like, it was a big like eight, I guess Oliver Stone kind of kicked off as a big time. So I really, I kind of like merged those two things to me, the Vietnam war and the El Salvador and tropical war kind of melted together in my brain. And I just, I kind of, I wear the tiger stripe Vietnam camo as a sort of like, just a sort of walking reference to it. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good question, Matt. That's a good question.
00:33:49
Speaker
That's a fucking fantastic answer. Uh, so yeah, also, we're going to try something new on this episode because in our, um, you know, in our prep work for this show, we, we try to do as much digging as possible. And like, I kind of know you Chris, uh, just through, you know, Instagram things, but you know, we, we found a very good, uh, blog article.
00:34:16
Speaker
about you that kind of gave a rundown of your wildly good career. So, can you give us a one-minute CV? Sure, sure. Let's see. So, just work-related or what? It's freeform, basically. Freeform. You can put whatever you want. You can put whatever you want on your CV. You can put your volunteer activities. You can put the clubs that you're in.
00:34:41
Speaker
Okay. All right. So when I was about like 15, my brother and I started a band together. Pretty soon after that started like writing music, sitting down and discovering that, hey, I think I can actually write a song. Then I went to college and I studied art history in college. That was like, I feel like these all things kind of like tie together.
00:35:05
Speaker
You went to Maryland, right? I did go to Maryland. That was where I was like, okay, I love this. This is like the history of a culture by looking at their art, by looking at their objects. I value an object. I like to hold it up and think about its historical references and context and stuff like that. That was a natural fit for me. From there, I started working at Dumbarton Oaks Museum, which is like in Georgetown, a fantastic museum in their archive. That's where Archive World
00:35:32
Speaker
happened. I just worked there. I had a band in DC and I was just like a really perfect part-time situation for me. Worked there long enough that I could kick into a full-time job at GW working in their archives in their special collections and now
00:35:47
Speaker
All these years later, I'm like a professional archivist, which is kind of like, fuck, how did that happen? I didn't even go to grad school, which is very strange. As an archivist, that's like, I'm definitely like an outlier. Everybody who tries to advance in this career, you pretty much need a Master's of Library Science. And I was like, I don't fucking think I'm going to do that. I don't think I'm going to. I'll just continue to show up to work until they tell me to stop coming.
00:36:15
Speaker
That's pretty much it then at some point I started an Instagram page And I'm pretty sure that will be the thing that I will be the most known I will have connected with the most number of people I like I have a band now But I'm pretty sure that the the people seeing pictures of me wearing pants in my backyard will be What I will be known for as I exit this earth
00:36:34
Speaker
as we live in the year 2023. What do you think they're gonna think in 100 years? I mean, if we make it 100 years, what do you think they're gonna think in 100 years when they look back at all of these pictures of these people? Like, dude, this guy took 50 pictures of himself every fucking day. Exactly, exactly. Every day he took 50 pictures of himself and he agonized over which very slightly different photo he was going to post to his Instagram.
00:37:02
Speaker
I know. I mean, Connor, I hate to admit this, but it's probably like 50 different pictures just for like one pose.
00:37:11
Speaker
I switch poses and I take another 50 and then I like switch locations and take another 100. I was talking about myself. I mean, I didn't have to start doing that because it seems like it gets results for you. The more pictures you take, maybe the better it is. Hey, that's, you know, you go wide and then at some point you can go deep kind of like a Terence Malick, right? He shoots so much footage and then he banks the movie in the editing room. I always feel that art is really made in the edit. Interesting. That's a good one. We're going to write that one down.
00:37:41
Speaker
Chris, what did you and your brother's first band sound like, just out of curiosity? What was the name of the band for us? Name, sound, and if you have a demo, you have to send it. I hope there's no demo. Sound, we were called Marble, which is, I just don't know. That's a good name. That's like a not that embarrassing. My band was called the Kestrade.
00:38:08
Speaker
How was it a band called... How was it a band called Apaka Dash Lips? And we thought we were the funniest motherfuckers on the planet. Which is still really funny because now we have the apocalypse. I know! Shit comes full circle. Marvel to me sounds like a shoegaze man. Just shoegaze or like 90s weirdo hardcore like Super Touch or Into Another.
00:38:36
Speaker
I mean, I feel like you guys like silver chair. Oh, yeah I'm not giving you shit. I'm not saying your sounds like silver chair. I'm saying that marble sounds like a silver chair, baby Silver chair is fucking awesome continue
00:38:52
Speaker
Yeah, they were fine. But like of the Nirvana copy bands, like they're better than puddle of mud. Yeah. Would you consider like Bush a Nirvana copy band? Would you consider Bush like a Nirvana copy band? Yeah, I would say so. Like Bush and Creed and puddle of mud and Silverchair. I mean, I thought that Silverchair was like the Australian answer to Nirvana.
00:39:19
Speaker
Dude, no, no, no. That's what the Frog Stomp front to back, because that record is fucking great. And they definitely were grunge. But like, I would not even remotely categorize them as a Nirvana copy band. Well, it's hard to, I mean, it's impossible to copy Nirvana, right? Like a million people cry every one of them failed. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they
00:39:45
Speaker
I'm gonna, I'm gonna end it with this. Like they were definitely heavy like Nirvana, but they, I think they took more away from like Allison chains and Pearl Jam. Like it's just grunge. It's good fucking grunt. Like late stage grunge. Late stage grunge, Jesus. Late stage grunge. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Did not mean to go on the silver chair tangent. Uh, so marble, what did you sound like? Oh God, what do we sound like? Um,
00:40:13
Speaker
I know that's a loaded question.
Music and Naming Challenges
00:40:15
Speaker
Ask a musician. No, no. We were very heavily influenced by the Beatles, but I would not say that we sounded anything like the fucking Beatles. The Beatles and maybe early U2. My brother was the drummer, but he was also the singer too, so he was the main driver of it. Right, right.
00:40:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean like. But you were the edge. I was, I was actually playing bass. I was playing bass. So the whole wave. What is his name? Larry something? Larry Mullen Jr. is the drummer. Isn't that the drummer? Yeah. Yeah, and Adam Clayton. My mom is going to be so upset.
00:41:10
Speaker
Uh, and he found out that I had like started playing bass in some band that I was some friend of mine in middle school was like, you know, Hey, let's, uh, let's form a band. That sounds like a cool thing. I'm like, yeah, okay, fine. Whatever. Uh, sure. Um, and I think he like found out through my mom that I was playing bass in this band. And I just remember him like pulling me aside and be like, I heard you play bass in a band, huh? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're pretty good. You know, he's like, okay, well, here's what you're going to do. You're gonna fucking quit that band.
00:41:20
Speaker
Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton. Adam Clayton.
00:41:38
Speaker
And we're going to start a band. So I was like, OK, all right. OK, OK. That's an older brother, though. I mean, that's what an older brother does. Yeah, that's a good move. Yeah. I was like, oh, so does it mean we could be friends? You know, like that kind of thing, basically like we're going to hang out. He like bought me a bunch of like bass tab magazines, like learn, learn, learn this Led Zeppelin fucking bass line. OK. And I sat down and learned, you know, just like the fucking doors. Yeah. Do you know him?
00:42:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think, well, you're going to learn how to play like people are strange or something like that. Okay. All right. Okay. Let's do it. So we basically, you know, we like mind the sixties as hard as we could, basically. Okay. All right. That makes sense. And also I don't know about you. So like a sixties homage.
00:42:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we weren't good or anything, not by a fucking long shot, but we would practice some Led Zeppelin, maybe some Queen, maybe some Pink Floyd kind of stuff, which I guess gets into 70s, but, you know, whatever. We would just do that, play a lot of Beatles. I learned a lot of Paul McCartney bass lines. Oh, fuck it. Yo, my first thing. Melodic bass player. Nice. Yes. You play where it fits. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:53
Speaker
Yeah, my first band was called Solaris. One awful name. And it was, I played bass and it was basically in the top and cover band. So, I don't know. I think I'll give you the edge on this one. Nice one. My other band was called the Self Improvement of Salvador Ross.
00:43:14
Speaker
which is a Twilight Zone episode. It's really a sad one. It's like, I used to know the whole story, but it's like the short of it is the guy gets these wishes, right? And it's kind of a gift of the Magi situation. And so he like does all this shit and he gives away all of this shit for this woman. And like, it just is a is a failure and he dies. That's like the story down. Yeah, I mean, like a band is trying to make himself better.
00:43:40
Speaker
I think about like how long we each spent trying to come up with that perfect band name for ourselves. Oh, yeah, that beyonds. That's key. It gives it gives the thought. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what the name naming things is.
00:43:56
Speaker
It's hard. It's hard. Coming up with the user name is difficult. I don't think that we had another name for this. I don't think that we ever had another name other than Apocalypse Duds for this. I saw this guy's username. I was really mad this guy's username. I saw Flirt Vonnegut. Are you fucking kidding me? I should have come up with that.
00:44:20
Speaker
I should have come up with that years and years and years and years ago. It says so much. Yes, yes, that's a that is a great username. But anyway, I mean, Jesus Christ tried try coming up with naming your children that the amount of agonizing by fucking like hand wringing and like writing scribbling down
00:44:43
Speaker
like having a chalkboard and like drawing red lines between things and scratching them out and like, holy shit, that was really hard. Well, and then it's always like your partner's, your partner was bullied by this person 50 years ago. And so you can't name your kid Jordan. And that's really the name you want to choose. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Also, how much is this going to get my kid harassed? Like you totally. Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:09
Speaker
Yeah. My mind knew a guy named Kermit. Kermit?
00:45:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. And there was another there was another dude named Kermit. There's a black Kermit, which is my mom's friend and the white Kermit, which is the which is the like Annapolis character. And yeah, dude, the duality of Kermit because Kermit, my mom's friend was like a poet and Kermit the other guy was just like a wild character. Jim Henson, if he had known this existed, would have smacked that shit out of somebody.
00:45:42
Speaker
Well, I think it must have been pre-green Kermit, certainly from my mom's friend. Because I think Kermit and Muppet came to life like in the late 70s, maybe. And I think my mom was born well before that. So I think that Kermit is not an invented name. Kermit is a name.
00:46:02
Speaker
It just so happens to be the Muppet now, and so the name is fucked. It's like Adol. Yeah. Yeah. No one can ever have that name again. Except for, except for young doll. Rest in peace. Right. Right. Wow. This episode is going wildly. I don't know. I mean, you can't have that mustache either. It's like.
00:46:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's true. It's true. I don't know what's worse, that Kermit was a name that was not invented by Jim Henson, or the fact that people were named like, these are, it's like a chicken or the egg situation. I think it's kind of a good name. I mean, you could be like, you could have the pet name Kermie, as Kermit does in the Mumpets. And I think that would be very nice. Yeah, Kermie.
00:46:45
Speaker
And that'd be nice. It's like it's like Clint or like Kenny, you know, it's in that and it's in that neighborhood Anyway, we talk about names. We talk about names a lot We talk about names a lot here on the beach. We're trying to decide the names of these lifeguards What's the name of this lifeguard? What is the name of this lifeguard? Right right dick and dodge? Anyway, Matt, I think it's your turn
00:47:15
Speaker
So Chris, so obviously from your experience, you have worked with what a lot of people would call esoteric, either items or objects or art or whatever, you know, basically your entire career. Do you think that this has had any like influence on you in a lot of, or in ways that you would not have expected, like kind of getting into doing archival and et cetera work?
00:47:44
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I feel like even though he's a diplomat, he has an archivist mind. He was always very organized in his files and his filing system, and he was an amateur photographer.
00:48:03
Speaker
Like back when you're shooting on film and he was developing his own film and you really have to know the inner workings of camera and light and aperture and shutter speed and all that stuff. So the photos, the capturing of our experiences and his experiences like 60s, 70s, Brazil, Peru,
00:48:26
Speaker
God, I can only imagine. Fuck, the photos are just, they're unreal. The colors, I'm sure, are amazing. It's just such an incredible gift to go through, because I'm actually doing this, so I feel like my, I've always had this thing there, this understanding of history, historical context, of objects. Our houses would always change, but the objects in the house were always, and just understanding. Interesting, he wouldn't switch it up,
00:48:54
Speaker
No, no. So like, you know, it's it would always be it always tell a story that always be like, this is oh, this was I got this tasteful thing in this place, in this market, in this country, when this was happening. And let me tell you a story, like everything is couched in a story. I think it kind of actually helps with memory, but like, just, yeah, like a memory palace, a memory palace. Exactly. That's exactly what I was thinking of. You know, I'm so I'm doing this, I'm doing this ongoing oral history project, my dad, where like,
00:49:23
Speaker
I sit down and I record an hour and a half each session. We have about maybe five or six sessions. Starting at the beginning, I like just turn on the mic. I mean, the guy has lived an insane life. You want to talk about names. I feel like I've never come up with a more perfect name than dad style. It references so many different aspects of my life and my philosophy of life and everything like that. I was trying to figure it out.
00:49:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, it's really on its surface. It's a reference to Japanese fashion magazine that is vintage fashion magazine called Free and Easy that when I discovered that was my issue.
00:50:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's where I began my knowledge of putting historical significance or context to vintage clothes. That's when I started to go beyond the thrift store stuff that I was finding from the 70s and maybe 60s into 50s, 40s, military, work wear, sports wear, all that stuff, figuring out how to identify it and what the hell it even means.
00:50:28
Speaker
But so yeah, all that kind of surface, it's a reference to this thing that I got my education from, but it's also a reference to my father whose style I mined and studied to the fact that I am a father and it's my style too, you know, like the fact that I look to my family and family again, that was the other constant whenever you move around, your friends never knew when they were, it was time for them to leave, never knew when it was time for you to leave, but your family was always the ones who were coming with you. So anyway, just back to the,
00:50:55
Speaker
I think the thing that has floored me over and over again in doing my work is realizing the intense power that can sit in an object, particularly a primary source one. I can't tell you how many times I've been in the middle of doing something and I have to just stop, put down the letter that I was reading, the photograph I was looking at, the oral history interview I was listening to, and just take off my earphones and just sit in the silence of that power.
00:51:22
Speaker
Just sometimes cry, you know what I mean? Like there's intense crazy stuff and I don't know if it's I'm just a very sensitive person which I I know I am but I also just like I feel that these things these objects they Glow with meaning, you know, like you pick something up and you can feel the power of it. Absolutely. Yeah
00:51:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is the show. This is the whole point of the show. Like, it's, yeah, it's just so cool that like, because of your, you know, your work and your interests, like, these things diverge in like the most beautiful way.
00:52:05
Speaker
Of course. And yeah, as Connor said, this is the whole point of the show. Where we all get this kind of shit. It's different for everyone, but if you care about how you look, there are things that have led you to that point. The whole point of the show is we want to name those.
00:52:27
Speaker
Yeah, the choices that the choices that you have made. So for you, it seems like music has been a big takeaway, I guess, from all of the places that you have gone. So we were wondering if you would give us a little peek
00:52:44
Speaker
into your, I don't know, some of your more eclectic finds. If you got that. Yeah, sure. It's fine. No, no, totally. I know. I've always, I always got something. Yeah, let's see. So, so when I was in DC,
00:53:02
Speaker
when I was working at GW, the music archive there was really in its infant stages. We were in the process of trying to figure out if we could even build something. So it involved a lot of just going out and figuring out what was around us, what other organizations, archives were collecting, and to try to not step on those toes.
00:53:26
Speaker
DC Public Library seems to really have the like punk zines thing down. They have that off and running. And you know, even Maryland is kind of tapping into hardcore punk and stuff like that. And so we were like, oh, let's go to maybe some bluegrass. Let's see. There's like kind of jazz, kind of folk music stuff. Can we unearth around here? Can we tie it to the university? That sort of thing. But actually,
00:53:54
Speaker
As in the early stages we still had still didn't stop us from going to hang out in the car, which was probably the coolest thing that got to happen.
Archival Work and Cultural Reflections
00:54:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That was that's because it's incredibly envious right now. Well, hang on a second. Who is in the car, right?
00:54:14
Speaker
Matt, do you want to handle that? Yeah, who's gonna say, who's gonna say? So Ian Mackay was basically the founder, or one of the founders of the very early 80s DC hardcore punk scene. He runs Discord Records, he sang in Minor Threat, one of my
00:54:40
Speaker
top five bands of all time. He also was one of the singers along with Guy from Rites of Spring and Fugazi, also another top band of mine, but just an all- like an all-around old head hardcore punk. Still lives his life by the same type of ethos that he had that he did in 1981. Yes, I could go on, but
00:55:09
Speaker
So someone's going to criticize because I didn't mention Embrace. And that's probably Chris Roy, but Embrace also another great Ian. So no, no. So you're hanging out with this. Yeah. Well, I mean, more than hanging out with him because we were he had invited us to go to his house and spend like an afternoon talking about, you know, the future of of music archives and how it relates to what he's done to his past, to his
00:55:37
Speaker
you know, like contribution to it, to like the- He was finding a bunch of old, he was collecting like show footage, right? Yeah, yeah. He was digitizing it and making it available. And I think if anybody is like, you know, believe me, it was weird sitting at his like living room table in that house, walking over across that porch, looking at this, like the sheep skateboard,
00:56:05
Speaker
representing George Washington University and talking to Ian Mackay about his stuff. It became apparent very quickly that I don't think I can convince him to hand over his personal treasures. I'm pretty sure he didn't actually bring us here to listen to what we had to say. He really just wanted to show us
00:56:29
Speaker
his house and and his archive and once I realized that I was like I can completely take off my I can just sit out of my professional self and just like enjoy this on a personal level which is awesome because you know we go down to the basement and see the history there and hearing about like rights you're just like hearing about everything that was going on you could you could just fucking feel it and then going into his there's a room upstairs on the second floor as soon as you walked into it you know like the the temperature dropped
00:56:58
Speaker
20 degrees because there were two air conditioning units in the windows and they were on full blast and it was basically his like cold storage room that had all of his master tapes Cassette tapes that his his mom would like put a recorder down in the kitchen Table and just record whatever was going on in the kitchen day after day So he had all this all these tapes of him being a teenager and Henry Rollins just hanging out and shooting the shit all that shit
00:57:28
Speaker
Um, and, uh, you know, like his tour diaries, his photographs, it was, it was unreal. We went to, uh, I mean, yeah, it, there was definitely a moments where I would have like, sort of these like weird, like disassociated out of body kind of like, Jesus, am I really here having this experience? I feel kind of bad. I kind of feel like I'm not worthy for this experience that I'm having. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like.
00:57:52
Speaker
Like, what did I do to deserve this? It was crazy. And I'll remember him giving us a ride to the Metro kind of thing. And we were listening to these Beatles recordings from the soundboard in between takes. It wasn't even the songs. It was just the chatter from within the studio. It was pretty crazy. That's fucking insane. Yeah, totally. It was totally annoying. Can I ask where he lives? Just what neighborhood he lives in?
00:58:21
Speaker
It's in Arlington, Virginia, right? Yeah, yeah. What is the name of that? Oh, my god. So he lives in Nova. That's insane. Yeah, he's still in the same house. His record label is right out of a building right across his little street. We went in to Discord to look for him to just kind of walk us around. And do you know Ian Savonius? Do you know him from Nation in Leices? Yeah.
00:58:49
Speaker
And again, he was there to pick up merch for his tour. He was about to go on So he was just there, you know hanging out. It was fucking cool. It was really crazy. That is the most like old-ath punk dude situation that I've ever heard in my life. It was insane. Yeah. I am again envious that I did not get to to experience this but holy shit That's like dude when you write a memoir that's gonna that's gonna be the Gen X and millennial like
00:59:20
Speaker
Did I have like a I have a kind of an eye for detail I think I think that comes across some like like I've my eyes eat details so I could like describe the paint of the walls in each of the rooms we walk through you know like I mean I was like sitting there silently for the couple of hours that we were there just like my eyes darting around trying to pick up as much information as I could like cementing it into my memory kind of thing
00:59:44
Speaker
So we're going to record that after we record the full interview, and this is going to be our first paid episode so that punk rock dorks can hear what every detail of the Discord house looks like. Right. We've got the punk rock paywall, the punk rock patreon. Yeah, like the antithesis.
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah, I'm fresh off of this because I went to a show the other night where I'm almost 40 and I was definitely on the younger side of the age range for this band. Shout out to all the Saints, my buddy Matt's man. But yeah, I was waiting to get a drink from my buddy that was bartending and there were a few
01:00:27
Speaker
older dudes that came up and they have they have seven inches and 12 inches like above the bar and they were like oh we don't need anything we're just going to point at these records and talk about them for two minutes each uh by ourselves yeah it was just it was just like a fucking uncanny funny experience but yeah that that's going to be this episode for all of those dudes that somehow listen to our stupid show
01:00:53
Speaker
We like to educate people. I was going to say hardcore in DC, this constitutes vernacular music. We saw that in the Stanford bio as well. And so I wanted to bring this up on the show because I had never come across that term before, but I find it useful.
01:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's basically like the sound of the people of a certain place. So like vernacular language is like the dialect. It's like populist. Yeah, yeah. So I think the idea was we were trying to find the music that like go-go music is a big DC thing too. It was birthday or so. I processed like a go-go
01:01:36
Speaker
uh, flyer collection. I think that was actually the only collection that I got to process while I was there that it was a music. It was music. What did those look like? Just out of curiosity. I mean, like, were they like, kind of like slap dash, uh, sort of punk, super cool. Yeah, super cool designed high production. No, and I wouldn't call them super high production. Uh, they, they,
01:01:57
Speaker
the elements of the punk DIY photocopy cut out and photocopy stuff. And also, you know, just super, super colorful, basically is what it was like. Yeah. Colors that you wouldn't see so much on punk flyers, like, you know, bright greens and pinks and stuff like that.
01:02:16
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's I guess I could have figured that. Yeah, no, it was it was it was cool. It was a that was a fun one. I actually to take it to Stanford, the collection that I processed there. So it's all been musical collections. I work in a music archive.
01:02:33
Speaker
I had probably my favorite one so far was this like punk and new wave photograph collection where there was a woman who was basically learning how to she was like teaching herself how to take photos at the same time in the early 80s as like punk is kind of blowing up and
01:02:50
Speaker
new wave music is kind of blowing up so she would bring her camera to shows and kind of like figured out that if she brought it she could kind of like get close to the stage and just her photos of of whatever shows she went to were really fucking she I mean she was a fantastic photographer and her
01:03:05
Speaker
her shots of the stage of all these different bands and shots of the audience are probably my favorite where she would turn around and shoot the audience. You could see like what these punks were wearing and what these new wave kids were wearing and like 81, 82. Is that available? Is that like accessible?
01:03:22
Speaker
Yeah, it should be. I'm pretty sure because we have to get the link for that. Yeah, I'm sure that our listeners would be mega interested in that. And certainly Matt and I are interested in it as well. I'll send it to you for sure. Yeah, that we digitize like maybe
01:03:38
Speaker
Quarter of it and the contact sheets and stuff like that So like cool shots of the plasmatics cool shots of Iggy pop and stuff like that Yeah, I mean good shit where you can like see you know like she's like right there at the front of the stage and The the light thrown on him from the flash is just like it's just epic I'll I'll find the links for you and send them to him
01:04:02
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that'd be great, man. And of course, we'll, you know, anything we post in like stories or whatever, we'll include the link because people need to see this shit. Yeah, absolutely. The like, just a really, really brief thing is that her collection came coupled with another collection, which was her husband. And he was in a Bay Area punk, maybe punkish, new wave-ish,
01:04:29
Speaker
at the same time they met each other through the scene and like so she documented his practices and stuff like that but what you get between it so his his collection is all like lyric sheets of flyer stuff stencil t-shirts the how like the the templates for the flyers and like the how funny they were and stuff like that but like just like you know how how they were made and um
01:04:52
Speaker
the story, the oral history of the story of their band and things. And between the two of them, you get this fucking really awesome slice of a scene. It's really fantastic. Yeah, that sounds amazing. Yeah, it was really cool.
01:05:07
Speaker
Yeah. And it sounds like, you know, like the go-go and punk intermingling in DC, like, I'm sure you've come across that, um, like San Francisco, you know, there's all these, like, there's all these various types of genres going on. And like, in certain ways, a lot of, a lot of the influence comes from a different genre. Like, is that kind of something you've noticed in doing this type of work that like a lot of the shit is, it's just interconnected.
01:05:37
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. The environment plays such a huge part. I'm trying to think of a specific example. You can definitely see the influence crossing across bands that would go on tour and ignite a fire on the other side of the country.
01:05:59
Speaker
But yeah, no, you can definitely kind of, I mean, that's kind of like the sort of details when you're processing, you're like, God, am I seeing this because I'm really seeing it? Or am I like, is this something that I have imposed on it? You know what I mean? But no, no, for sure. There's definitely a difference to the, even the show photographs that I was seeing. It just seems like a different style happening, a different like,
01:06:29
Speaker
I don't know if I'm articulating it well, but I definitely could sense a difference. Well, you are. We're going to see them anyway. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, we are going to see them. It's a thorough program we have here. Here we go. Not kind of DC related. I think of the backwards and how they mixed the best punk that's ever been played are hardcore punk and reggae.
01:06:57
Speaker
you hear their influence on modern rock bands and shit. I don't know. It's very interesting to me the way that different genres and types of music connect in ways that are a lot geographic. So I guess that was the question I came up with. And I was just wondering if you had kind of seen any correlation and it sounds like that is what you see.
01:07:27
Speaker
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that for sure.
01:07:30
Speaker
So finally to clothing.
Fashion, Fit, and Online Shopping
01:07:33
Speaker
We touched it a little bit, but here we are now in the bolded section. So we really liked your nod posts on Instagram, which are like shout outs to people who you admire and the beard and hair and denim progress posts. I wanted to ask you about the selfie as a journal, a journaling tool.
01:07:59
Speaker
Yeah, well, I appreciate the appreciation. Those nod posts were like, I kind of felt like coming into the vintage Instagram community, I collected vintage in a sort of isolation for years and years and years. Without social media, nobody around me that I knew was into it, certainly not to the degree that I was. And if I ever met anybody that
01:08:26
Speaker
made the mistake of complimenting something of mine, I would like use that as an opportunity to unload all the information that I had gleaned about the buttons and stuff like that. So when I found Instagram, you know, like that little pocket in that corner of the world, and people were cool to me, I felt like I needed to pay my respects to them. That's like a thing I like. I did boxing and stuff like that. I did like Thai boxing for years. And
01:08:52
Speaker
Paying your respect is like a big part of that. Like you pay your respects constantly. Like when you step on and off a mat, when you are about spar with somebody, you pay respect to the game and the class. When you're even holding, somebody's holding focus mits or tie pads, you pay respect to them. You show your respect. So like, you say pay your respect to the game.
01:09:11
Speaker
No, to the, what did I say? Well, you do pay respect to the game, right? Right. No, no, no. I just thought if you did, that is what you said. That's a good phrase. I mean, respect to the game. Yeah. That's the best hip hop lyric ever written. Yes. Yeah. I mean, you should, you should, you should absolutely respect the game for sure. Even the players you need to respect sometimes.
01:09:34
Speaker
But yeah, I did that for a whole number of reasons. I set parameters for myself. I feel like in creating art, I sometimes really like to put limits. I think that kind of helps make me be more creative. So I didn't buy anything for those things. I didn't use anybody else's help. So if you ever see me in any of those photos, I was trying to figure out how to get the angle properly without a tripod, without asking somebody to hold my camera and take a photo.
01:10:04
Speaker
Oh, man, that's so good because it's like almost every time you fucking hit it. Thank you. Yeah. It's like sometimes it's like the t-shirt is like a slightly different t-shirt. But like for the most part, it's like this picture is a facsimile. Well, thank you. I would spend a long time. I just think it's great when I saw it. I thought it was awesome. I think like why aren't more people doing this kind of thing?
01:10:27
Speaker
Well, thank you. I feel like it stretched me a lot. You think about the Beatles playing at Hamburg and how they fucking had to play seven hour shifts or whatever. I feel like just taking all those photos really got me better and better at it. Made me focus hyper on the details. Whenever there's a kid in there, I'm holding a teddy bear or whatever. It's because I didn't want to involve anybody in it except for myself. Right, right.
01:10:58
Speaker
Dude, what restraint? That's fucking crazy. I would tell people I didn't get any help and then I would get help. I had to take those photos in whatever. I had a real short burst of downtime if pasta was boiling for dinner and I would get myself dressed and then run outside and really quickly take the photos and then run back in kind of thing. That makes it so much worse because it's like they're great and
01:11:26
Speaker
It for you, it was easy. Oh, man. Yeah, it was. It was. Thank you. No, it was. It was. It was fun. And there's times when I miss it. But I also like I I did them every week for like three or four straight months. And you guys have got to look. You got to look at the Instagram because there are tons and tons and tons of these posts and they are great. Each one was great. They're all fucking awesome. Every single.
01:11:53
Speaker
No, thank you. And I have one of Matt as well, you know, like with the sunglasses and the bandana and the denim jacket and the...
01:12:01
Speaker
I mean, it would be like, I'd have to take a shot, go back with my phone. I was like, damn, my chin is all wrong. It's like the angle of my chin is all wrong. Go back, take another three shots, go back to the phone, look at it. At some point, sometimes I'd be taking them out in the hot sun and my phone is melting and powering down. I'm like, no, no, no, God damn it. I'm getting bit by mosquitoes and stuff. Maryland mosquitoes can be vicious.
01:12:24
Speaker
Yeah, terrible, terrible. The worst in North America might challenge that, but they're really motherfuckers up here. They have no reason, they have no reason to be that way because we do not live, we live in the south, of course, but we don't live that far south. Yeah, yeah. Georgia bucks say fuck you, they're way worse. Yeah, man.
01:12:48
Speaker
Yeah, they're there. Thankfully, mosquitoes don't really give a shit about me, mostly. I don't know why. But I get very, because you're not very sweet. Probably not. The copious caffeine and nicotine probably do not add to the good flavor of my blood.
01:13:06
Speaker
But yeah, they're, they're fucking terrible either way. Um, so kind of our, our usual, uh, menagerie of in questions, Chris, um, I want to throw a little bit of a curve ball, but yeah.
01:13:23
Speaker
You've got a great vintage collection. There are tons of us that connected with you because of this kind of thing. Do you remember what your first vintage clothing purchase was? Not when you didn't know and you purchased something cool, but what your first active purchase was.
01:13:44
Speaker
Yeah, let's see. My first time when I was like, I'm going to look for something vintage was I was looking for like a corduroy blazer. I was super into the strokes and I knew I wanted like a corduroy blazer.
01:14:01
Speaker
And my wife was like, my girlfriend at the time was like, Oh, let's go to a thrift store. I know a couple of thrift stores on near campus. Let's like, okay, thrift stores. I had no idea. All right. We go and I find the first one we went to, I found perfect dark brown 70s, like corduroy blazer that fit me perfect. Like a fucking glove. It was like, and I'm like, Oh my God, this is incredible. I look at the price tag and it's like a $3 and I'm like, Holy shit. And that basically blew up the rest of my life. Like I knew that.
01:14:30
Speaker
it was over this is this is it this is like i can get i i can get but you know like that never happen you don't really get you don't get to like pick what you want to look for in a thrift store and then go and find it so i i felt like that was like a real awesome very rare that was a nice like magical experience but the first like vintage clothing thing where i was like i had found something and i'd like i knew i'm gonna like do whatever it takes to try to find something and it is actually my favorite piece of clothing to this day is
01:14:57
Speaker
is a World War II shawl collar denim jacket. That's like, to me, it's an iconic jacket. Wait, you found that in the wild? I didn't find it in the wild. I went and I hunted on eBay for, I had seen them, I kept seeing them in these Japanese magazines. They would have sections at the end where they would take pictures of just random people that were on the street or in, they were wearing vintage, and I kept seeing these types of jackets appearing, and they didn't look like anything
01:15:24
Speaker
in the modern times like the trucker denim jacket you know that goes across generations but a shawl collar denim jacket is just not a thing really ever see that it's a style. I don't think that I have ever seen that I don't think I've ever seen I'm looking it up right now.
01:15:39
Speaker
yeah i love the idea i love the idea yeah i know it's it's a thing that had its time and then was just not used anymore oh yeah i've seen this kind of thing oh they're the best they're i was thinking i was thinking like uh lower gorge oh like more like a cardigan i guess but denim
01:15:57
Speaker
Which I guess this kind of is. Even so, this thing is amazing. Yeah, yeah. The collar is not like super, super shawl. Like, you know, like a cardigan. Yeah. And the thing is, is like for my, that was another thing is discovering about vintage was it definitely ticked all these boxes for me, but mainly like I'm not of a large like nan size. I'm kind of, I have smallish shoulders. I have a kind of a smallish frame.
01:16:23
Speaker
And wearing vintage clothing, that's the perfect thing. These shawl collar jackets, especially old military stuff, can't tell you how often I look like some kid wearing his father's clothes when I try to put on some old military jacket. But these shawl collar jackets, for whatever reason, they're cut, is absolutely perfect for me. Sleeves, shoulders. If I just get the right chest, then everything else works perfectly.
01:16:46
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome. That is not something that's very common either. You do have a good frame to wear a lot of vintage military stuff, but those are very particular fit lines. You look like my best friend. He is tall and thin and wears this sort of thing very easily and very well. That's nice. I have this thing where
01:17:13
Speaker
I think my brain works like this. I don't know if other people's brains work like this. It's kind of hard to come to a conclusion. It's hard to not apply to everybody else. You think we are the world. But I meet somebody and I go, oh my God, you look exactly like this. It is uncanny how much you look like this friend of mine. And then I want to be really nice to that person because there's emotions transfer.
01:17:35
Speaker
But also, the more I get to know that person, the less they look like them. So I think it's like this thing where my brain is being like, oh, I know this face.
01:17:45
Speaker
And I'm just basically, I have made it create another file for this new person. I have put their name on that file. And I've just basically taken that face from my other friend and put it in there. That you know, it's just your frame. It's just your height and slight, you know? But it's no, it's, I mean, it's like, um, he can never find any fucking clothes. He's like very, he's a software developer, you know, so he can afford this shit. And.
01:18:15
Speaker
he can never find anything and so i was going through instagram i was like damn like every one of these fucking things fits really great so i don't know yeah
01:18:23
Speaker
Yeah, there's something to be said about like knowing your measurements, but also like, I don't know, I feel like I can look at a photo of an item. I've looked at so many clothes, just so many pictures of clothes that like I can, I feel like I can tell, even without it having measurements, I can kind of tell that's going to fit me pretty easily. Like I can tell roughly what its chest to shoulder ratio is. Yeah.
01:18:46
Speaker
I feel very bad for people that can't do that because that's also a skill that I have. I know measurements, obviously, but I also know how I personally like things to fit. And so with not thinking about a really, really, really awful photo where it really shows no proportions, if you give me a basic flat lay, I can probably eyeball it pretty fucking well.
01:19:12
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And that's a skill, like learning the skill. It is. It comes with a lot of honing. You have to do that over and over again and fail dramatically. Well, you have to fuck up a million times to get any to... Like measurements can fuck up. Yeah, to get your calibration. Yeah. Oh, yeah, my God. I mean, for some reason, there's a difference between like 30 inches and 30 inches. Right. Yeah, for sure.
01:19:40
Speaker
There's the element of gambling to it. You risk taking and gambling, which is exhilarating. I think you order something. It's not going to be here for three weeks. You're not positive. It's going to fit. You get it. What a rush. My God. And if the thing fits, it's like.
01:19:58
Speaker
ecstasy. No, which rarely does. I completely agree. There's I think of that as like the I called it like I don't need the mirror feeling. I like put the thing on self explanatory. I don't need to look at it. I can feel this fucking thing is going to look awesome as soon as I flip around and look at the mirror. I don't like I don't even need it like this jacket. Fucking perfect. And there's this feeling of like warmth that goes through you was like like all the endorphin releases.
01:20:24
Speaker
Yeah, fuck yeah. Yeah, I gambled and it paid off. I bet on the right horse That's like the best serotonin boost that I as a fucking clothing door can personally think of Like I'm not one to try things on and the thrift store like I can pretty much eyeball it, you know And so when you get home and you put it on and you're like, this is me. It's just like Just yeah, totally
01:20:49
Speaker
Yeah. You have to think about all the circumstances, like all the fucking circumstances that had to lead to that piece of clothing, getting into your mailbox and then getting onto your back. Right. Like this fucking thing. Yeah. It goes back to your, like, like your philosophy with the objects and things that, that you handle professionally.
Social Media Reflections and Band Promotion
01:21:10
Speaker
And like that leads over into your, your collecting habits. Like, you know, it's, it's the same feeling essentially. Yeah.
01:21:20
Speaker
it's yeah I feel like there is I don't know this is a bit of a moving off a little bit of a tangent but I guess I did kind of want to pick your brains both of you about like how you feel in terms of your relationship to Instagram like do you is it
01:21:36
Speaker
the same is it getting better or worse? Yeah, it's bad. Yeah, it's bad. I would say like fully it's bad. It used to be pretty good. I mean, of course it was bought and that was not ideal. But it does. It just seemed to have no direction, right? Like for a while they were like,
01:21:56
Speaker
Everyone needs to post a video, even though the explicit and in-the-name purpose of the app is photo. So it just seems confused to me. And we certainly aren't having a terrific amount of success with the apocalypse.dud's Instagram, you know what I mean? I feel like the algorithm doesn't give a shit about it at all.
01:22:18
Speaker
Yeah, I so like things in the nature of eBay Etsy, whatever, like Instagram, any product, any basically any product, like Instagram, to me feels like mostly unnecessary evil. Um, you know, I, there's just nothing. So I love
01:22:40
Speaker
personally selling to people like you Chris like or people that I have some sort of connection with and like wants to buy something that means something to them like I love selling in person too like eBay Etsy all this shit is it's fine like I use eBay because I've used it for 20 plus years but
01:23:02
Speaker
It's not my favorite unless someone is like, you know, I got a message from a guy that I sold like a patched up jacket to. And he was like, dude, I like I love this. Like, this is what I collect. Let me know if you find more. You know, so I got that kind of like one on one interaction on Instagram. Like, that's what I enjoy. And that's what happens so little these days. But I still it's how we met the record. I don't know if you know that.
01:23:32
Speaker
It's almost like I longed for the days when that was mostly what it was. But also, I talked to a lot of people that I would consider close most days on Instagram. And I feel like that has been a platform where you find your people. So I don't know. I'm torn about it. It is a community. Like you said earlier,
01:23:55
Speaker
Like, I still enjoy it more than not. And so for now, like, I'm too old for fucking TikTok. I ain't got time to learn that shit. I'll just keep doing my usual shit on Instagram. And, you know, if it eventually dies like Tumpur did, which also I think hopefully will make a resurgence because it was perfect, not going to go on a tangent on that. But like, I still enjoy Instagram mostly. It just, you know, it sucks when you post something and you're like,
01:24:25
Speaker
Oh yeah, this is going to pop, but that is what it is. Yeah, I think it's a necessary evil. It's something that everyone does begrudgingly. I think in my final word on this is that
01:24:44
Speaker
There will come a point where they make all of the videos autoplay, which I think they already do, but they will make them with volume. And that will be the time that I don't use it anymore because I really don't want to deal with that shit. I don't want to have like music playing. I mean, I don't want.
01:25:02
Speaker
Anyway, thanks for asking. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice a little role reversal. If any meta employee is listening to this and you have clout, bring back the chronological feed. God damn it. That's the only fucking thing that any of us want back. You can do whatever the fuck else you want. Bring back the chronological feed. I think there is some stupid fucking way to do it. I don't want to do that shit. I'm awful. Let us know when we are done.
01:25:30
Speaker
You know, I want to know when there's nothing else to look at. Give me fucking five minutes of peace. Oh, God, dude. That's the thing. I feel like this app is like yelling at me from wherever my phone is. Like, hey, there's a deal to be had. Just open the goddamn app and you will find there's a story. And somewhere there is a jacket that is waiting for you, dude. And there's a fucking deal. And if you don't log in and refresh it,
01:25:57
Speaker
You missed it. You missed it. It's gone. You see somebody's story sale. Hey, they're having a story sale. Oh my god. Holy shit. Oh my god. It's perfect. And then you can see there's more dashes. No, no, no, no, no. Click sold. Fuck. God damn it. If I had not been doing my job instead of looking at Instagram, I could have gotten had this jacket.
01:26:15
Speaker
or pair of pants or pair of socks or whatever the fuck. I think to me that's a hard thing is like I feel like the more recently I've been starting to really over the pandemic too I started to like really look at it with a sort of side eye like are you still helping me? Are you like hurting me more than?
01:26:36
Speaker
more than you're loving me. Are you taking from me and I'm not aware of how much you're stealing from my life? Every minute I'm not looking up at the world and I'm looking down at my phone, am I missing out on my kids trying to play Yahtzee with me or some shit? It's crazy. Yahtzee, baby. Yahtzee. It all comes back. Yahtzee sales are about to go fucking through the roof. Hashtag Yahtzee. Come on, guys. We're absolutely going to hashtag Yahtzee. Jesus Christ.
01:27:05
Speaker
Alright, I'm making a note of this right the fuck now. It's Y-A-T-Y-A-Z Y-A-T-Z-E
01:27:16
Speaker
I think it's Y-A-H-T-Z-E-E. Oh my God. Well, we'll have to figure this out. We'll have to figure this out in the aftermath. Yeah. That is all we have, I think. Yeah. We always like to give guests a chance to plug whatever they would like to plug. We already said your at dads underscore style on Instagram. How do we recommend the follow?
01:27:41
Speaker
and also just hell yeah absolutely and check out those nods posts yes yes but uh yeah i've had it uh well just it's this has been a blast i am thank you so much for having me on for real i it's been great yeah this was super great yeah this was awesome i had high hopes and they were met so well thank you exceeded even that's that makes me happy i'm glad i didn't come on and uh
01:28:07
Speaker
Definitely ramble on, mumble, make you guys. No, dude. And the mic sounds good and you are like a charm. So this has been a wonderful episode. And I think that our guests, our audience will think likewise. We are also ramblers if you didn't pick up on that. So we appreciate a ramble. Tangent, tangent and ramblers. Well, I love, I love what you two are doing. I really do. I, all my, all my support and love for you guys.
01:28:34
Speaker
No, yes. Much love. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know. I have a band. You guys should check it. Somebody should check it out, please. Somebody check it out. It's good. It's me and my friend. So thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Uh, you know, we have music. That's, that's it. That's, that's it. Um, that's, that's my story.
01:28:51
Speaker
Oh, the band's called La Palma. You can see my link in my profile information. It's in the bio. Yes, that's it. It's in the bio. I highly recommend La Palma. They're a wonderful sounding band.
01:29:05
Speaker
Thank you, Matt. Of course, of course. You know he makes good music. Yeah, you know he does. That taste is too good.
Conclusion and Farewell
01:29:13
Speaker
So yeah, everyone, thanks for listening. If you have questions, comments, concerns, apocalypsestuds at gmail.com or at apocalypsestuds on Instagram, please follow, rate, whatever you want to do on Spotify or your platform with Joyce. And yeah, thanks for tuning in. I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
01:29:34
Speaker
Then I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Fowler and we'll see you next week.