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Creativity as a Way of Life – a conversation with Aaron Ryan
19 Plays15 days ago
Aaron Ryan is the author of more than thirty books covering numerous genres including business, performance, poetry and fantasy novels.
His first experience of being recognised as a creative person was as an 8-year-old school boy.
In this episode of the Abeceder work life balance podcast Rest and Recreation Aaron explains to Michael Millward how he created a way of life that is focused on expressing his creativity.
Aaron describes the cookie-cooker recipe of an array of jobs to becoming a full-time writer. He explains how he identified the circumstances that would enable him to focus on being a writer.
Michael and Aaron discuss how authors are catalysts for creativity in other people.
Aaron also explains the influence his Christian faith has on his creativity.
This episode of Rest and Recreation is ideal listening for anyone who wants to escape the treadmill of conventional working and build a way of life based on being creative.
During this episode Aaron mentions Publisher Champ.
Visit Abeceder for more information about Aaron Ryan and Michael Millward.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
on zencastr Hello and welcome to Rest and Recreation, the work-life balance podcast from Abbasida. I am your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida.
00:00:20
Speaker
Today, Erin Ryan, who is the author of more than 30 books, and I are going to be discussing how adults can rekindle their imagination and creativity.
00:00:32
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, rest and recreation is made on Zencastr. Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcast production process from recording to distribution so easy.
00:00:50
Speaker
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code, Abysida. All the details are in the description.
00:01:03
Speaker
Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:14
Speaker
As with every episode of Rest and Recreation, we will not be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
Erin Ryan's Writing Journey
00:01:23
Speaker
to- Today's Rest and Recreation guest is Aaron Ryan, the original Electric Boy.
00:01:29
Speaker
Aaron is based in Seattle, Washington. I have sort of visited Seattle in Washington, but I'm not sure that the time that I spent there qualifies as a visit. next time i go i'm going to make sure that i get off the airplane and stay in the city for a while but i was on a flight that was crossing the pacific on its way to new york and that is where we stopped to refuel i had a very nice view of washington state from the air though I will, when I make that trip, make all of my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club because that is where I can access trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays and all sorts of other travel-related purchases.
00:02:12
Speaker
If you use the link in the description, you'll be taken to a discounted page for so you can have your own subscription to the Ultimate Travel Club. Now that I've paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of Rest and Recreation.
00:02:27
Speaker
Hello Aaron. Hello, Michael. Nice to meet you. Thank you so much for having me. I am really looking forward to finding out more about all the work that you do. But I am going to ask you first of all, to sort of start, how did you get to be an author of 30 books?
00:02:43
Speaker
Oh, gosh. It's probably through electricity. I mean, the I'm the original like electric boy, right? This was really an assignment that was given to all, you know, the entire second grade class in 1981. You're used in a North American term. So what does second grade mean?
00:02:58
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. So second grade is when you are seven or eight years old over here. First of all, you start with preschool and then kindergarten, first, second. So I was in second. Right. This was a ah pretty elementary assignment. We're talking...
00:03:11
Speaker
You know, college rule, three hole punch paper, construction paper cover, crude stick figure designs. And heavily, the story was heavily influenced by E.T.
00:03:24
Speaker
because I was a kid and it's E.T.' 's out there. not sure you would have been allowed to watch it in the UK when you were age seven, though. I don't know the rating system over there. I can't i can't speculate, but such a darn good movie. It is.
00:03:35
Speaker
I just wrote it and I was like, you know, I'm a little guy at the time, so I don't remember going like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do. But I do remember a visceral inspiration going, wow, I did this.
00:03:48
Speaker
I made this. And look, it here it is. I'm holding it in front of you. What started in my brain as ah you know a germ of inspiration and a crazy idea or two manifested itself into a full-on, what I called a book form, a novella.
00:04:04
Speaker
And I thought, you know someday maybe this will be me. So here, 35 years later, whatever, I'm still writing. Actually, 45. Sorry, I tried to subtract myself by 10 years.
00:04:15
Speaker
I'm thinking he's a writer, not a mathematician, but that's fine. Yeah. Very right brain, not left brain. Yes, you are correct. Yeah, I just, I love it. I love telling stories. I'm a voiceover artist as well. So I get to tell other people's stories, but as an author, I get to tell my own and that's what I prefer.
00:04:32
Speaker
Was this a word story or of was it pictures that you were writing, creating with this story? It was both. i was writing out the narrative and drawing these ah these stick figures. Okay.
00:04:43
Speaker
What's the story? Well, the sad thing, I'm just going to make full confession here now that this is out over the interwebs. My mom kept this after all these years and she gave it to me, i don't know, three years ago, two years ago.
00:04:56
Speaker
And I couldn't believe she still had it. She gave it to me. I lost it. I don't know where I put it. And that absolutely crushes my soul. It's a frustrating thing where it's like it's got to be here somewhere in the house and hopefully one day I'll find it.
Creative Beginnings and Inspirations
00:05:10
Speaker
But the electric boy is a boy who ah he basically is wandering along one night to my, to my recollection. This is a long time ago. And he he gets struck by lightning and he then is imbued with powers in order to, um you know, touch things and manipulate things and levitate and read people's minds and this and that.
00:05:30
Speaker
You know, through it's through that freak occurrence that happens and then you you're conveyed or conferred all these powers. I think it ended with ah him surviving and being delivered of these powers, although there was a cliffhanger at the end. So here's eight year old me writing cliffhangers at the end, suggesting that it's not all over, you know, leaving room for a sequel at eight years old.
00:05:53
Speaker
So it's pretty, pretty crazy. I know that there are people from organizations like Disney and DC Comics and Warner Brothers who listen regularly to my podcast. But now you've put that there. as you've got that You've owned that idea now officially.
00:06:07
Speaker
And that we'll see whether it can be made into something else. But it sounds very interesting. You're certainly very creative. Oh, thank you. If you want to know something really funny and amazing, last year I published a novel called Forecast.
00:06:20
Speaker
It is a novel about a man who is, wait for it, struck by lightning, conferred with powers, and he doesn't levitate things or anything like that. But I went about writing this story and it's a great story. It's a nine eleven historical fiction novel where he sees visions of the future and is able to effectively prevent 9-11 entirely through the powers that he's conferred.
00:06:45
Speaker
But I had an epiphany as I'm writing through it going, where I literally was hands on the keyboard, wrote a paragraph or two, sat back. you know My face is, you know jaw drops, agape. And I went, oh my gosh, I'm writing The Electric Boy 45 years later again.
00:07:01
Speaker
wow so it was ah it was an epiphany for me. yes Things do come full circle. Yes. I think you rather enjoy being a writer, don't you? I really rather enjoy it. Yeah. So that's the one I would like them to turn into a movie, please. If you're listening, Forecast. It's on Amazon. I'll send you a copy. There you go.
00:07:16
Speaker
Brilliant. So you do this creativity in school. And I know I've been a secondary school governor. And one of the things that I once said to the head teachers at the school was, we see all this creativity around from the pupils and students at the school. So But what happens when they leave? They go off into ordinary, everyday type of employment. What did you do as your first type of work? Oh, I think what most young boys do in America, and they get a paper route. So i was I was chucking papers at people's doorsteps. And ah I think I did that for a few years.
00:07:49
Speaker
And then I moved on to Dairy Queen, working at a restaurant, you know making burgers and shakes. I think overall, i' had a wide array of different positions over the years. I won't really call any of them careers because they were not a career trajectory, but filling time, paying rent, you know covering bills.
00:08:08
Speaker
It's just that in the background, I've always been a freelancer at heart, an entrepreneur at heart. So these things paid the bills, but the dream was running as a a subtle undercurrent under all of those going, someday, man, we're going to do...
00:08:23
Speaker
We're going to do writing full-time. We're going to creative pursuits full-time. I don't think you're unusual in that. I think there are lots of people who will be sitting in a job that pays the bills, provides them with a vacation once a year.
00:08:38
Speaker
But what they're really wanting to do is something else. Yeah. And I think that for lots of people, that is what they really want to do. But it is very difficult to make that leap from employment into self-employment, freelancing, being creative and and relying upon your own wits in it for your income rather than being able to turn up somewhere and somebody's going to pay you to do something that they've created in terms of work for you. So what was the process like of making that leap, but the thought process that went through it before that?
Balancing Creativity with Non-Creative Jobs
00:09:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think what most people need to do is what I did. My career path or anything like that is a cookie cutter recipe for success. But you always need to keep the dream alive. You need to foster that dream and nurture it and do things that will help you prepare for that leap in the background.
00:09:26
Speaker
So for me, that looked like continuing to write in my spare time, continuing to make music, poetry, engage in artistic pursuits that one day could manifest into a career.
00:09:37
Speaker
all the while paying the bills. It's just like actors who, you know, in between all these roles, they're working at a restaurant or something to pay the bills. But they take their acting classes in their off hours.
00:09:48
Speaker
they ah They read scripts. They act with friends. They nurture that talent. And what you're looking for in the middle of all of that is you're looking for an X, and I will explain.
00:09:59
Speaker
You're looking for an overlap where something is going to allow you to descale or descend from your existing nine to five and then upscale your dream into your nine to five. You're looking for that overlap where something through whatever circumstances can allow you to to invest less time into the job.
00:10:20
Speaker
Maybe you're making more, maybe you're working part-time, maybe you're moved to part-time or you're laid off. That happens and you look at it as a, oh, darn it. I'm going to be out some funds now. I'll have to struggle to make ends meet.
00:10:31
Speaker
But in that overlap, you have the opportunity then to start building up your artistic pursuit and take that full time. Does that make sense? It makes an awful lot of sense. There's almost ah another book in there called Overlap.
00:10:46
Speaker
It's just sort of like the process. i so I want to do this. I want to do this. I want to be successful at it. But no one is an overnight success. doesn't happen as instantly as people might believe you have to put the effort in.
00:10:59
Speaker
The key thing is like, if you want to be a writer, what's the best way to become a writer? What's the advice you would give to someone who wants to be a writer? and Well, it has to be put pen to paper, put finger to keyboard and write and then share what you've written with other people and get feedback. Yeah.
00:11:16
Speaker
Take the good feedback and smile and the bad feedback ah that this could be better. Grab that with both hands and ask why. i think there's an awful lot of sense in what you're saying there. that But it's not then so much a leap of sort like I am now a writer. You've always been.
00:11:32
Speaker
It is a slow burn type situation. yeah And because you're building up, you have your income that pays for your bills, gives you the security, which then enables you to to do the writing and build that up to the point where one takes over from the other.
00:11:50
Speaker
Absolutely. If one becomes a springboard to the other and you've allowed yourself to engage that springboard, I think no matter the creative pursuit, whether it's writing, acting, singing, making music production, whatever it is, you have to adopt the the mindset of the mentality from the very beginning that this is what you're supposed to do. This truly is what you're supposed to do. Everything else is a means to an end in the interim.
00:12:14
Speaker
Ultimately, i think for for the advice that I would give a writer is you have to adopt a mantra from the very, very beginning. And that is something that can help keep you focused on your dream.
00:12:25
Speaker
Dreams are so easy to forfeit ah in the face of you know something else that is going to pay the bills or will be that means to an end for a while. And then the money starts attracting us more than the dream.
00:12:38
Speaker
Have a mantra from the very beginning that keeps you firmly committed to that goal of your artistic pursuit pursuits for the long run. Yes. Do you ever feel as if there's been a time in your life where the imagination, this creativity hasn't been something that has been a driving force?
Creative Faith and Inspiration
00:12:57
Speaker
You know, it's really easy to say, to be kind of like overly humble and say, oh no, I'm sure that I've had these periods of, you know, dryness in a desert and, you know, an oasis and all that.
00:13:08
Speaker
No, I really always have felt like I'm supposed to be doing something creative. It is the most fundamentally fulfilling part of me when I can engage in something creative because as a Christian, I get i take great inspiration from the creator, number one.
00:13:25
Speaker
And that gift that he's given me, imparted to me to create is a reflection of himself. Right. So I can take that precious gift of creation, turn around and create.
00:13:36
Speaker
And then in so doing, you create an environment for someone else to enjoy this creation and thus the creator inadvertently. I just love that. It's such a rich and exquisite privilege. I have to create. Yes, I totally agree with you.
00:13:49
Speaker
That also reinforces the understanding. ah won't say belief. I'll say understanding. Because with with belief, there's, yeah, well, you could be right, you could be wrong. But actually, when there's understanding, you're understanding the fact.
00:14:05
Speaker
that you are a creative person whose purpose in life is to be creative it's then putting those things into practice to then share the gift with other people you pick up a book and you read it you are transported to a different place and time and when you're thinking i know what it's going to say on this i know what it's going to say on the next page yeah I've worked out this plot.
00:14:28
Speaker
I have. And you turn the next page and by the end of it, you're thinking, you like i was wrong, but I know what's going to happen now. you take people You transport people with books in ah in a way that you don't do with with film, for example, because there's just the words on the page and everything that surrounds those words comes...
00:14:49
Speaker
from the person's imagination, but it's the words that trigger the imagination and create for each reader their own experience of the book.
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Well, my biggest um or I guess my my greatest affinity in terms of literary works has always been J.R.R. Tolkien in Lord of the Rings. He's very adamant in his in his prologues that he was very against any kind of incarnation of his characters or cinematic representation or adaptation of his books because it was his preference.
00:15:25
Speaker
that the imaginary representation of whatever character is in question resides in the purview of the reader. And so, you know, now we have an indelible impression of Sir Ian McKellen as Gandalf, who was fantastic, utterly inhabited that role, but that isn't the way that J.R.R. Tolkien wanted it. He wanted us to envision him how we will.
00:15:47
Speaker
And the Balrog, how we will, and the, you know, the Eagles and Gollum, how we will. But it's our job as authors and and creators to conjure up imagery ah through what we create and to cajure conjure up an experience through what we create.
00:16:02
Speaker
I have no shame about that. And I don't have any, you know, reservations about how people envision my work as long as they buy the the book and start envisioning it because it's a great book. Go buy it. Go
Exploring Diverse Literary Works
00:16:14
Speaker
buy it. We'll put some links in the in the description to and assist people in doing that.
00:16:17
Speaker
But there's 30 books, more than 30 books. You're working on 33 and 34 at the moment? Correct. So what type of books have you published? Oh, it's a smorgasbord. People would say, now, what kind of author are you again?
00:16:31
Speaker
Because I have six business books on voiceovers. I have a a hexology. That's a hexology because it's six books. I have a hexology of science fiction, alien invasion, bestselling novels, one of which has been adapted for the screen and is being pitched to streaming networks as we speak.
00:16:48
Speaker
um I have three Christian dystopian novels, two of which are published. One is coming. I have ah three children's books that are inspired by my my nine and six-year-old sons.
00:17:00
Speaker
I have a book of poetry, a book on self-publishing, a book on business experience. I have a book called Examining the Lord of the Rings and and then you know one or two others and stuff, but it's gotten me up to 33 34 now.
00:17:14
Speaker
I don't think I've ever heard of something being described before as a Christian christian dystopian.
Christian Dystopian Series Explained
00:17:20
Speaker
Tell us more about that. I would love to. So i firstly, I wrote the Dissonance Saga um all in 2024, with the exception of one of the novels. I started in 2023.
00:17:32
Speaker
um I love them. I'm so grateful for how dissonance turned out. But as a Christian, I really struggled with ah the incorporation of, I wanted verisimilitude in that saga.
00:17:42
Speaker
So if an alien is going to come eat you, you don't necessarily go, oh, shucks, you might say something else. um And so there is mild profanity in there. There is some you know mild barbarism because the aliens, they're they're going to eat you and you're going to be delicious and they're going to eat you.
00:17:58
Speaker
it's a very compelling saga. There's a really human story behind it. But when I was finished with it, I honestly, earnestly, totally felt, um, God calling me to write a clean fiction saga that had zero profanity that had, you know, zero barbarism or or anything like that.
00:18:17
Speaker
My drug, my, my books don't ever use drugs or bullying, um, They'll never have the F-bomb or JC or GD. I just don't want my readers to, don't want to expose my readers to that.
00:18:29
Speaker
They're new expressions for me, but we'll but move on. um so I'm thinking that I've got to look those up, but I'm not going to. but um So you've created something that is, I suppose, one word is to say it's clean. And I do like that sort of thing. I don't want it to be sworn at by the book that I'm reading. yeah ah would like to I'd like to be able to read sections of books to people.
00:18:53
Speaker
to edit the ah I shouldn't have to edit the author's work in order to share a book with someone. you You don't want to have to sanitize it, but you don't you also don't want to demand that your readers sanitize it. It's precisely called clean fiction for that very reason. The saga is called The End.
00:19:09
Speaker
It is a Christian dystopian saga. you know Dystopian is what Hunger Games is, for example, a dystopian environment. There's powers. ah you know There's the haves and the have-nots.
00:19:20
Speaker
There's the powers that be, and then you know those who have no power. And one is persecuting the other. It is a very compelling story loaded with scripture, loaded with redemption um and people born again and ultimately triumphing over darkness.
00:19:38
Speaker
The premise is that there is a
Techno-Trillionaire Series
00:19:40
Speaker
deluded techno trillionaire. It's not Elon Musk. I'm just going to clarify that. I say deluded techno trillionaire and people go, oh, Elon Musk. And I go, no, it's not him.
00:19:49
Speaker
it was written nice It sounds as if you started writing the book before Mr. Musk was anything other than just an entrepreneur. and No, I didn't. Actually, I started writing it ah only this year.
00:20:01
Speaker
It's very compelling. i mean, he literally believes he is the big baddie antichrist of the book of Revelation. And it's not true. you know He's certainly formidable.
00:20:12
Speaker
He's certainly you know one of those guys that you have to contend with. But there's 1 John 2.18 talks about, even now many antichrists have come. And this is the premise behind this book. He is a formidable one of many antichrists who have come.
00:20:27
Speaker
And he has taken it upon himself to literally try to fulfill all of the prophecies of Revelation whilst literally hunting down and exterminating Christians worldwide.
00:20:37
Speaker
It is his great pleasure to do so. He's filthy. He's disgusting. He's got vassals working for him. He's gaudy. He's, you know, indulgent, narcissistic. It's just blech.
00:20:48
Speaker
So I had to struggle with that part of it, writing passages of Nero and going, this is really gross and I need a shower. Yeah. That's where your your imagination takes over and actually gives you a physical reaction to what you're reading or what you're writing. Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:05
Speaker
And it shows the power of the imagination, doesn't it, as well? It's just words on the page, but can actually have that not just an emotional and impact on you, but a physical reaction to what you're reading. Absolutely. That's the power of words.
00:21:18
Speaker
They can create not just an emotional or a mental image. They can create a physical reaction, just words on a page. I agree. Words are very evocative and the way you handle them, it's a huge responsibility. Yeah. They are designed to ah to evoke.
00:21:35
Speaker
This isn't true of every author out there, but I'm much more cinematically inspired than literarily inspired. So you can see the film as you're writing it. You can see the film. Yes.
00:21:46
Speaker
I write it very cinematically. So that's that's very true of my of all of my works. Right. And do you see particular actors in roles in this film? um I've not been to that stage yet of having it adapted to the screen for the end. Dissonance Volume 1 Reality has been adapted to the screen and is being pitched.
00:22:04
Speaker
I've imagined a few people and forecast the novel I mentioned earlier, the 9-11 historical fiction novel. I had to envision some characters because the site I uploaded it to asked me to do that.
00:22:15
Speaker
But I haven't really, i haven't gone that far with the end yet, but undoubtedly i will have it adapted as well. It's too good not to be. Yeah, I mean, I'm inspired by it already, and all that's happened is you're talking to me about it.
00:22:29
Speaker
it's the It's the knowledge of the Scriptures and being able convert or translate the Scriptures into a novel form, and then explain which explains the Scriptures.
00:22:40
Speaker
Yeah. It's like you may not want to pick up a Bible. You may not find the language in the Bible particularly easy to read because it's a translation that was done way back when.
00:22:51
Speaker
But like um The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, you're taking a story from the Bible and converting it into something that is very up to date, very realistic.
00:23:02
Speaker
And by what you're telling me about it, quite frightening as well. Well, even more importantly than that, you're right to all those points. But I think even more importantly, since the dawn of time, you know, around campfires and elsewhere, we we love having stories yeah told to us. Jesus taught through stories and parables.
00:23:22
Speaker
And so if you can take something that is so... life altering and sacred and precious and impactful and redemptive as the gospel, um or even just, you know, God's story entirely, and then transpose that into a fictional storytelling setting, you instantly have an audience that is amenable to that.
00:23:42
Speaker
The Left Behind series by um Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins, ah was a blockbuster series in the 90s about Christian tribulation fiction.
00:23:53
Speaker
It was so well done. it really brought Revelation to life. We love Revelation because it's in the Bible. We love stories because we're humans. Put those two together, it's winning formula for success.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yes, I can see how it works. I can see the great inspiration of the stories from the Bible and converting it, translating it into something that was never imagined, I presume, at the time of the Bible, cinema, streaming of films, all those sorts of things.
Modern Adaptations of Biblical Narratives
00:24:26
Speaker
it's But yeah it brings the stories to life and provides a different type of explanation. Yes. think it's fantastic. Yeah. Absolutely fantastic. Yeah. And it's so great to, I mean, Michael, I take every sale of every book that I get notified at. I use an app that was actually published or created by someone in the UK.
00:24:49
Speaker
It's a wonderful app called Publisher Champ
Gratitude and Reception
00:24:52
Speaker
now. Mm-hmm. And ah every single sale that comes in, you will literally, if you're a fly on the wall, you will literally see me stop and say, thank you, Lord, because I'm so grateful that someone has taken on my story in trust.
00:25:05
Speaker
And the reviews speak for themselves. but to But I'm so, so, so filled with gratitude that these stories came to me, all of them. it's such It's such a high honor to go, wow, Lord, thank you for this. It's such a crazy, cool story. I'm so grateful.
00:25:24
Speaker
It's one of the things is that no matter who we are, no matter how we live, um we were all made in the image of one thing. right We're all made in God's image.
00:25:36
Speaker
And so all of us, regardless of what we do, how we do it, we're all made in that image and the the decision, but we we're also given free choice as well. So the yes the whole sort of equation is one where we have the opportunity to take what we have been given and use it positively, or we can also have the free choice to use it in a less positive way hopefully most of the world will use their gifts and talents in a very positive way which is you've inspired me i'm bouncing you know you're on one side of the world and i think you're eight or nine hours behind in terms of time um with me based in the uk but um it's the end of my day and but i'm bouncing now after listening to you talk about your books thank you very much it's been an interesting and excellent excellent fun thank you
00:26:25
Speaker
You're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it It's been fantastic. Thank you.
00:26:32
Speaker
I am Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abusida. And in this episode of Rest and Recreation, I have been having a conversation with the dynamic author, Aaron Ryan.
Conclusion and Listener Advice
00:26:43
Speaker
You'll find out more information about both of us at abusida.co.uk. There is a link in the description, along with links to places where you can buy Aaron's books. If you're thinking about taking up a new activity, it is always a good idea to make sure that you are fit and healthy to do so.
00:27:02
Speaker
One way to do that is to take the annual health test which is available from York Test. York Test provides an assessment of 39 different health markers including cholesterol, diabetes, various vitamins, various organ functions and a full blood count.
00:27:19
Speaker
The annual health test is conducted by an experienced phlebotomist in the UK, in Europe and in the United States. They will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace. Hospital standard tests are carried out in a UK AS accredited and CQC compliant laboratory.
00:27:36
Speaker
You'll have access to easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime via your secure Personal Wellness Hub account. There is a link and a discount code in the description.
00:27:50
Speaker
I'm sure that you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of Rest and Recreation as much as Aaron and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:28:02
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abusida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:28:15
Speaker
Until the next episode of Rest and Recreation, thank you for listening and goodbye.