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Intentional Rest – a conversation with Bart Henderson
8 Plays9 hours ago
Understanding how to sleep in a healthily
Bart Henderson was set on a legal career, until he started looking at how he was contributing to society. The ensuing thought process resulted in him setting up the Agora Guild, a community for men that is built on kindness, strength and chivalry.
In this episode of Rest and Recreation, the work life balance podcast from Abeceder Bart and host Michael Millward discuss the role of sleep in a healthy lifestyle, and healthy sleep habits.
Their discussion covers
- The negative impact of negative people
- The role of sleep
- Features of a healthy sleep routine
- The impact of a healthy diet on healthy sleep
You can find more information about both Bart and Michael at ABECEDER.co.uk
Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for Rest and Recreation
Books mentioned by Bart
Buy Relentless- by Tim Grover from Amazon or Bookshop.org
Why We Sleep - by Matthew Walker
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Visit York Test and use this discount code REST25.
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Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abeceder is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think!
Being a Guest
If you would like to be a guest on Rest and Recreation, please contact Abeceder.
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Thank you to you for listening.
We appreciate every like, download, and subscription.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Rest and Recreation Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
on zencaster Hello and welcome to Rest and Recreation, the work-life balance podcast from Abysida. I'm your host, Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abysida.
Guest Introduction: Barton Henderson on Energy Management
00:00:19
Speaker
Today i am talking to Barton Henderson about managing energy levels and intentional rest. As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, rest and recreation is made on Zencastr because Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcast production process so easy.
00:00:44
Speaker
If you are or want to be a podcaster, give Zencastr a try. Use the link to zencastr.com in the description. It has a built-in discount. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one.
00:01:00
Speaker
One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to. As with every episode of Rest and Recreation, we will not be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
Structured Growth and Life Goals with Agora Guild
00:01:15
Speaker
Today's Rest and Recreation guest is Barton Henderson. Barton, or Bart to his friends, is the founder of Agora Guild, which aims to help high-performing professionals take aligned action in their lives and careers through community, accountability, and structured personal growth.
00:01:35
Speaker
His background in entrepreneurship, legal recruiting and performance coaching has enabled Bart to develop his specialism in helping individuals reclaim energy, optimize productivity and build systems that support both ambition and well-being.
00:01:52
Speaker
Today we will be exploring all of these because it fits in very well with the Abbasida perspective that achieving an objective at work should tie in with the fulfilment of a lifestyle aspiration.
00:02:06
Speaker
Bart is from Pine Beach, New Jersey in the United States. I have not visited New Jersey, but I have visited Old Jersey, the islands in the English Channel. When I get the opportunity to visit New Jersey, I will be sure to utilise my membership of the Ultimate Travel Club so that I can pay trade prices on my flights, hotels, trains, package holidays and so many other travel related purchases.
The Role of Rest in Energy Management
00:02:30
Speaker
Because I'm one of the good guys, I have included a link in the description to the Ultimate Travel Club, which has a built-in discount so that you can become a member of the Ultimate Travel Club and travel at trade prices as well.
00:02:43
Speaker
So, I've paid some bills. It is time to make an episode of Rest and Recreation. It's great to be able to say hello, Bart Henderson. Michael, great to ah great to connect. I'm excited to talk about a topic that is not discussed enough.
00:02:58
Speaker
I'm really happy to dive in and give some tactical ways people can start to ah to learn to rest and and enjoy better health as a result. Yes, I agree with you. That's going to be really important. But before we get into that, please, could we just have a little summary of who Bart Henderson is and the sorts of things that you've done in the past that led to the Agora Guild?
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, so i'm I'm an entrepreneur by um my profession, I suppose, at this point, although I am an attorney. I've had a lot of amazing opportunities in life to to do different types of professions. And so while I enjoy the role as an attorney and investor, I'm an entrepreneur, done many investments, still do a lot of different investments, all sorts of different industries. you know I thought I knew my passion before in the legal sector, and then i thought I knew my passion in investing And then when I started ah working with men to shape their lives in a better way, I really found my passion. So what we do at Agora Guild is we help men achieve in all different areas of life, faith, finance, fitness, um really any of the the core pillars to
Influence of Social Circles on Energy Levels
00:04:03
Speaker
people.
00:04:03
Speaker
And we've had guys in our group who lose 75 pounds, repair relationships. We've had people who tripled their business, just just ah a full spectrum of things. And it's individual to each person, but I finally have really landed where I get lit up in life in a really good way. So... Okay, sounds brilliant.
00:04:23
Speaker
You're very lucky man, aren't you? Yes. We're talking about energy and intentional rest. And I suppose, know, what where we need to start is when energy levels aren't right, and there isn't the intentional rest. So I know from my own conversations with people that one of the issues that comes up very often is that people don't know that they haven't got the ah the level of energy that they are capable of having. They don't know that they're not getting the right type of intentional rest, whether that is sleep or some other type of resting activity, because life just becomes what it is. It becomes normal. It's normal to feel stressed all the time. It's normal to feel tired all the time. It's normal. And we don't realize because that's just how our lives are. What do you think are the the sort of signs that we are not getting enough rest and we haven't got the energy levels that we could potentially have? It's interesting that so many people point to most of those signs you just you just talked about, which is you know maybe maybe there's stress, maybe you're not feeling up to par, or maybe you're not thinking clearly. i think one of the things that people bypass the most is understanding the energy of the people who surround them and how much that shapes their energy.
00:05:48
Speaker
You know, it's obvious to most people that if you get a ah poor night's sleep, you're going to have less energy. What I find is less obvious to most people is that the people around you very directly shape um not only your mental energy, but your physical energy.
00:06:05
Speaker
Michael, did you ever have a position where, you know, maybe you scooped ice cream or you were bartender or server or something in the service industry at all? Yeah. I was the best bartender you can imagine.
00:06:17
Speaker
There you go. That film cocktail with Tom Cruise yeah modeled on me. yeah ah Perfect. I love it. I paid for college by bartending and serving and things like that. So I'm i'm right there. So did i There we go. This is a great example. You you remember having doubles, right? Where you're going to work a double shift. Well,
00:06:38
Speaker
I don't know if you can think back to a time when you had to work with a double with a negative person, right? Someone who's just kind of all day long, ah, this customer, that complaining about this. And then they're telling you about all the horrible things they're dealing with in life. And you just, you hear negative and negative and negative. And so you get off that double, you get home and literally you're physically exhausted just from being around this person. You know what I
Choosing Energy-Boosting Activities
00:07:08
Speaker
mean? Yes. The bar work is physically exhausting as it is. But if you're doing it with someone who's draining you emotionally as well, and that just adds to the physical exhaustion, you're not in a fit state to do very much at all when when you've finished work.
00:07:24
Speaker
That's exactly right. So, you know, we're talking about an example like bartending, but this could be in in your office. You are reminding me of an experience that I had when I first started work in ah HR in an office. Oh, let's hear it.
00:07:39
Speaker
you know i was I'm a very clean and tidy person, so they gave me a desk and everything, and I had on the on my desk the things that I was working on at that particular point in time. And one of my very much more senior colleagues to me, because I was just starting out,
00:07:58
Speaker
came in and said me, what are you doing? I said, well, I'm just working on this. He said, but but you don't look very busy at all. um i'm I'm working on this. No, no, no, no, no. The thing is, Michael, regardless of what you're working on, you've got to look busier than you actually are. So get some files and put them on your desk and make it look like your in-tray is high and there's nothing, all this sort stuff. he's thinking like, this is not a very positive outlook to have on life.
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah. ah Wow, that's that's a life lesson if I ever heard one. Yeah, like what am I going to be able to learn from you? you know am i in what i actually thought to myself at the time, am I with the right type of people? Absolutely. Yeah. If you're surrounded by people like that all the time, or whether you got a desk or at a bar or whatever, people who are negative and negative, the transfer that most people don't think about is that actually can physically drain you. The mental can physically drain you. And so- I like to talk about the inverse being
Impact of Family on Energy Management
00:09:00
Speaker
true. Now imagine you worked that double.
00:09:03
Speaker
You're working with somebody who's just talking about, i have so many dreams and I'm excited. We're starting this and and my wife and I are doing that. and And they're talking about, oh, I really want to go to the gym after this. And they've got all this positive energy.
00:09:18
Speaker
You're going to leave that shift like, oh, great. I feel a bit better. You know, I'm not as drained as I would have been because mentally you've been built up rather than kind of dragged down. well I'm going to play devil's advocate for just a little a moment because yeah you're working alongside someone who is very positive.
00:09:36
Speaker
I do agree with you that their positivity will rub up on rub off on you as well. And you could end up feeling more positive and energized as a result.
00:09:47
Speaker
But if you have worked a double shift with Mr. Miserable, Right. And then you've gone home and you've just, you haven't had any chance to recharge, reset. And then you go in and you're alongside Mr. Fantastic.
00:10:00
Speaker
It's going to take work, hard work to shift your mindset into Mr. Fantastic from where you were with Mr. Miserable. That's one person, right? but But imagine your friend circle of five people, I guess, is what I'm thinking, or the 10 people around you. If you're surrounding yourself with 10 miserable people versus 10 generally more positive people, that's the kind of energy shift that I'm looking at that most people, I think, kind of forego. You are the total, the sum total of the people that you hang out with. That's right. That's right. If you choose the person who always sees the dark side of something, you will become the person who sees the dark side of something. Yeah. But if you are mixing with people who see something as very positive, you are going to pick up that characteristic as part of you as well.
00:10:52
Speaker
Yeah, that's it. You hit the nail on the head. And so when I had kids, I have i have two boys now and i have a third on the way, actually. Congratulations. Thank you. Appreciate it. A third boy, too. You know, my wife and I learned very quickly that energy was sacred.
00:11:08
Speaker
We never really understood that before. We never really thought about it. But once we had two, you know, one kid and then two kids were like, oh my gosh, like we really have
Nutrition and Personal Energy Needs
00:11:18
Speaker
to understand where we're spending our energy. And so I kind of came up with a rule and it governs nearly everything I do in my life. And it really helps me to manage energy. And it's rather simple.
00:11:30
Speaker
I ask myself now, is this task going to give me energy or is it going to take energy from me? Before i get into the kind of ethos of that and and how deep you can go, there's an allowance for the fact that there's certain things you have to do that are going to take energy no matter what.
00:11:49
Speaker
you know You might be at a job you don't like, and you might have to do a particular task that nobody else lets you do on the team, and that's going to take energy for you. But in other instances where you have an option, it's Friday night, all your friends are going out to the bar. you know Maybe you're like me, you've got two kids. You can ask yourself, is this going to give me energy or take energy? Well, sometimes it's going to be great, it'd be a positive experience. Other times, i'm going to wake you know maybe I'll wake up on Saturday and I'm just going to feel terrible and it's going to be harder for the whole day or two or whatever it might be. So there's always times where you can ask, is it going to give me energy or is it going to take energy from me? And so I ask it about everything. If it's about going out with friends, if it's about doing a task at work, if it's about working out, for instance. So let's say you have to do those tasks you don't like at work. Well,
00:12:36
Speaker
Your energy was just sucked from you. What can you do after work to give yourself some energy back? Is it go for a walk? Is it write poetry? Is it go to the gym? The point is you have to manage your energy. If you had energy sucked out of you at work, you've got to invigorate yourself with energy in a different way once you get back from work. So I've really asked myself no matter what now, is this task going to give energy or take energy? If it's going to take energy, i try not to do it unless it's something that, of course, you must do.
00:13:07
Speaker
you know The things that we don't really want to do, but we have to do, we can put them off and put them off. But sometimes it's just best to just get on with it.
00:13:18
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Except the fact that we're not particularly enamored with the, with the process, the decision, whatever it is, but it is a requirement. We have to do it. Get on with it. Absolutely. Stop whinging about it. Yeah. I just read the book relentless. I think his name's Tim Grover.
00:13:35
Speaker
And he said, you can't start to fix things until you start to fix things. Yeah. Yes. It's so true because so many people find themselves over their head at work or maybe in the relationship or debt or whatever it might be. And it and it looks insurmountable if you look at the whole thing. But guess what? If you you can save one more dollar tomorrow than you did today, you're starting to fix things. So yeah, it's like eat your elephant one mouthful at a time.
00:14:02
Speaker
That's right. That's exactly it. Breaking down the problems into manageable size pieces so that you can solve that part of the problem and then move on to the next one is actually makes something that feels, may feel unsurmountable.
00:14:21
Speaker
actually more realistic and achievable which then clears the brain clears the mind puts you in a better frame of mind and enables you to sort of yet achieve that bit achieve that bit when we're making progress which i suppose also must then link in with um improved relaxation Because clearing the mind, I mean, what you just said made me think immediately of MTHFR mutations. So I don't know if you ever heard of this. It's called MTHFR, methyl tetrahydrofolate reductus. Sounds like you need an ology to be able to understand it, really.
00:14:59
Speaker
Something like that. Essentially, i don't know the stat worldwide, but about 40 to 60% of people have an MTHFR mutation. What that means is that your body's not able to properly process folate and vitamin B and potentially folic acid could be a problem. Now, any food you see out there in the world that says enriched will oftentimes have folic acid.
00:15:26
Speaker
What happened was i was going to my longevity doctor. I don't go to a regular doctor. I go to a lifespan longevity doctor. So someone who's who's forward looking. How do we make sure you're going to live as sharply for as long as possible? And he said to me, you know, Bart, do you ever get tired? You know, I kind of was surprised by the question. was like, Doc, what do you mean do i ever get tired? He's like, I want to know, do you ever get tired? Doc, I got two kids. yeah Yeah. Of course I get tired sometimes. He's like, when?
00:15:55
Speaker
You know, I don't know, two o'clock sometimes, you know, he's like, yeah, that's a problem. And I said, what? He said, you know, people think that it's okay to need that midday coffee or or that that's a normal thing. He said, it's not.
00:16:09
Speaker
And if you feel that way, it's often a nutrient imbalance, of course. You told me about MTHFR, which about 60% people have. I, of course, have one of the mutations. And so I started taking ah a methylated B vitamin. This isn't any kind of, I guess, pharmaceutical or anything like that. It's a simp it's a B vitamin and folate. you know You get folate from things like spinach and kale and things of that nature. And so it's a methylated B and a methylated folate. What that means is just that it's
The Critical Role of Sleep for Energy
00:16:38
Speaker
ah an already broken down form of the vitamin so that your body doesn't have to process the first barrier.
00:16:44
Speaker
And I will tell you, Michael, my energy is absolutely phenomenal all day, every day. And it's just the simplest thing in the world. People don't realize that they're walking around where their brains, their livers, their kidneys, everything is not getting the proper methylation cycle. And so all you have to do is check Do you have an MTHFR mutation? And then supplement with a methylated vitamin B and a methylated folate, and it can change people's lives. it's It's unbelievable. It's the biggest change in energy I ever felt in my life.
00:17:16
Speaker
And you attribute that to the the assessment and then the the use of the supplement. Yes. Yep. And again, just regular methylated vitamin B and methylated folate. It's a very very phenomenal thing to look into. If you feel like maybe you're just tired all the time, it's one place to look, you know? So you've improved, increased your energy levels by understanding more about your body and more about what it is that you need to feed your body in order to maintain the level of energy that you that you want to have. Right.
00:17:49
Speaker
Then it becomes a case of, well, why didn't you just change the foods that you ate in order to create that energy level? if you have the MTHFR mutation, your body can't actually process the vitamin B and and the folate correctly. so You could eat the equivalent of, you know, 30 servings of vitamin B and your body just will not process, it won't correctly do it. So a good way to explain it is, um you know, we don't put crude oil into our cars. We put gasoline, which is already refined by a step or a number of steps. And so the methylated B and the methylated folate is for those of you who don't you know have the ability to correctly process it with the MTHR mutation, you almost can't eat your way out of it.
00:18:33
Speaker
Now, with that said, I'm a major proponent of correct nutrition as you like, I would absolutely go to nutrition first for most people.
00:18:43
Speaker
but But in this instance, you're just not able to process it. Okay. So, right. Are you like the Duracell bunny then? that's Just about, you know, something like that. So is there a side effect of this, which means that you've got all of this energy and you said, you know, being so energized and does that impact have a negative impact on your sleep health then?
00:19:08
Speaker
No, I mean, I sleep, I'm blessed, or maybe i'm I'm very dialed in on my health where like, I can I can hit a pillow and fall asleep in anywhere between, uh, I don't know, eight to 90 seconds.
00:19:23
Speaker
yeah Yeah. That sounds like a luxurious way to go to bed. Yeah. Most of us are doing something things which we think will actually, well, all sorts of things which we think will help us get off to sleep, which, but which are actually keeping our brain awake.
00:19:39
Speaker
Absolutely. yeah I find, you know, the first thing I'll tell people from I'm having a coaching session when it comes to sleep is, are you working out? Like that's one thing I go to first, which is maybe you're not tired enough because you're not exerting yourself and and doing the correct things, you know, from a health standpoint to start to fall asleep. So it's it's like people are eating too much and not taking enough ah exercise, which then makes it difficult for people to to achieve sleep.
00:20:07
Speaker
the sleep that they really want and what they really need. Absolutely. I mean, sleep hygiene, it's such a science. I mean, Why We Sleep, probably the best book I've ever read on sleep hygiene. I have, i guess, just a ah multitude of things that are regular life now, but things that I do in order to kind of get ready for bed. But you know, one of those to your exact point is don't eat for three hours before you sleep. I know it's hard for a lot of people. I've got tactics on how you can do it if it's hard for you, but you really want to try to to not eat for three hours before you go to sleep. And that's another reason I fall full fall asleep so easily. My body's not just like ah bloated and feeling a little like I overdone the meal when I'm trying to fall asleep, you know?
Balancing Sleep, Nutrition, and Exercise
00:20:54
Speaker
Wow. That's, I agree with you. It may not be difficult every single night, but there are lots of nights when it is going to be difficult.
00:21:06
Speaker
When work means that you're going away, you're arriving back late, you've got all sorts of different issues. And, uh, Sometimes it can be equally as difficult to go to sleep when you are hungry as well. Absolutely. I mean, I have health rules probably kick into that today, but, but you know, one of my health rules is that for five out of the seven days a week, I need to, no matter what,
00:21:30
Speaker
um stop eating three hours before bed. Because to your point, there's days, you know, you get home at 8.30 from night from a networking event or whatever it might be. You got to give yourself some allowance. But trying to keep two hours or three hours is just a great start to to fixing your sleep hygiene. And it's when our body repairs and grows and rejuvenates itself, isn't it?
00:21:56
Speaker
Absolutely, Michael. When I was in law school, I used to have this... this really poor mentality in retrospect, which is like, i don't need sleep. You know, I can, I can sleep four hours and study and this and that, and can get by. And, and, you know, I can, i can do it.
00:22:12
Speaker
um But it's so bad for the body. It's it's it's one of these things that I just i wish I knew earlier. But sleep is, um you know, after maybe exercise and nutrition, probably the most important. And some would even say some things about sleep can be more important than exercise or parts of nutrition. And so...
00:22:35
Speaker
I wish I knew back then um how absolutely critical it is. Like um there's this thing they they discovered 10 to 15 years ago. I think it's the glymphatic system with a G. And it's like, as you sleep, your bo your brain cells shrink. Like they actually shrink so that cerebral spinal fluid can wash through the brain and wash away amyloid plaques and all sorts of other things. things to cleanse your brain. Like that's happening when you're sleeping. So when you're saying, oh, I'll just get four or five hours of sleep, you're doing yourself a disservice in so many ways. I mean, I can go down the list from, you know, yeah higher all-cause mortality, cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, obesity, immune function, neurodegeneration,
00:23:25
Speaker
Um, you know, memory and learning, you know, when you feel like you're not quite as sharp as you want accidents. I mean, you're like over a third more likely to get in an accident the next day. Nevermind what you're doing your testosterone, your inflammation, shortening your telomere length, cancer. I mean, there's so many studies that show that cancer could be dramatically increased due to lack of sleep. So it's just up and down, you know, up and down the list. Uh, sleep is so critical for us. I wish I knew when I was younger.
00:23:54
Speaker
that I had so many late nights, I suppose then, but it's it's interesting. I mean, the whole sort of thing of, yeah, we want to have energy when we need energy. We want to have energy because having energy is good for our mindset and our attitude. You know, if you, have if you are tired, you know, it's that old sort of thing, you know, toddler, you know,
00:24:20
Speaker
two three four year old and it gets to that time of the evening when they just get like you can't be mine it's like you need a nap or you need to go to sleep now you do need to go to sleep now because like I was never like this.
00:24:41
Speaker
yeah and ah But the lack of energy will impact your your mood and that will impact your performance, whether you're at home being a parent or at work and your lack of sleep will and lack of energy will impact the way in which you behave as well. So we get to the point where it's like,
00:25:03
Speaker
You mentioned like nutrition, exercise and sleep. they're are They're not really things that we should rank as such. You can't out exercise a bad diet, can you? And you can't do anything unless you've got the right amount of energy and energy comes from a combination of sleep and the food that you input. and yeah then you can But you don't really know what's going on. So as an example, like you know People want to have better testosterone. i mean the
00:25:36
Speaker
You could dramatically improve your testosterone from sleeping alone. and and You don't know any of this unless you know what's going on inside your body. That's why I'm such a proponent of blood testing and... and making sure you actually know because you have no idea what your A1C is and you have no idea um you know what your testosterone levels are or anything like that. You can look healthy and not actually be healthy. So it's important for people to understand their baselines and then treat it accordingly with sleep and and through exercise and nutrition before you go to these other things like you just talked about.
00:26:10
Speaker
Yes, understand your own body rather than the general, this is what a human body is. Understand what that means for you because we're all
Conclusion and Further Resources
00:26:20
Speaker
different heights, different weights, different metabolisms, and you collect the information, but don't just take it as this is what it's like for... Absolutely.
00:26:32
Speaker
person x therefore it's the same for me take the information and investigate how that applies to you yeah and your body yeah this is uh that i think we've just turned the page on to chapter two now though yeah so you'll have to come back yeah have to come back this uh we'll see absolutely organize that at some point or another but for today It's been really very interesting and I do really appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Yeah, it's been great talking.
00:27:05
Speaker
Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida. In this episode of Rest and Recreation, I have been having a conversation with Bart Henderson from Agora Guild.
00:27:19
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us by using the links in the description. At Rest and Recreation, we believe in living healthy lives. An important part of staying healthy is knowing the risks early. That is why we recommend the health tests from York Test, especially the annual health test.
00:27:39
Speaker
The annual health test from York Test provides an assessment of 39 different health markers, including cholesterol, diabetes, various vitamin levels, organ functions, iron deficiency, the list goes on.
00:27:54
Speaker
The annual health test is conducted by an experienced phlebotomist who will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace. Hospital standard tests are carried out in a yeah UKAS accredited and CQC compliant laboratory.
00:28:09
Speaker
You can access your easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime via your secure Personal Wellness Hub account. There is a link and as you would expect, a discount code in the description.
00:28:24
Speaker
I'm sure that you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of Rest and Recreation as much as Bart and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe and also share the link with your friends, family and work colleagues.
00:28:43
Speaker
Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abusida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think. Until the next episode of Rest and Recreation, thank you for listening and goodbye.