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Train Fanning – a conversation with trainspotter, Joe Deppe
16 Plays1 month ago
Joe Deppe works in the automobile industry in Michigan USA. But spends his rest and recreation time with trains. Not a model railway, but exploring the rail system and recording the historical railroad infrastructure in the area that he lives in.
In this episode of the Abeceder work life balance podcast Rest and Recreation Joe and host Michael Millward discuss what Americans call rail fanning, which is called train spotting in the UK.
Their discussion covers everything from the role played by Thomas the Tank Engine in fuelling Joe’s passion for trains, to the dynamics of the train fanning community.
Joe explains his passion for compiling a record of the old infrastructure of the railroad before it is all digitalised.
Michael covers some of the railway folklore of the village in Yorkshire where he lives.
In their discussion Joe and Michael discuss why cars fail to attract the same level of interest as trains.
You will leave this episode understanding more about an often misunderstood hobby of train spotting.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Announcement
00:00:05
Speaker
on zencaster Hello and welcome to Rest and Recreation, the work-life balance podcast from Abysida. I'm your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abysida.
00:00:19
Speaker
Today, Joe Depe is going to be talking to us about railfanning.
Podcast Platform and Travel Club Promotions
00:00:24
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, rest and recreation is made on Zencastr.
00:00:31
Speaker
Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcasting production process from recording to distribution so easy.
00:00:42
Speaker
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com using the link in the description. There is a discount on subscription fees. so Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one.
00:00:57
Speaker
One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to. As with every episode of Rest and Recreation, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
Meet Joe Depe: Railfan from Michigan
00:01:11
Speaker
Today's Rest and Recreation guest is Joe Deppey. Joe is based in Michigan in the United States, which is virtually in the center to the north of the United States, but it's somewhere that I haven't been as yet.
00:01:28
Speaker
If I am to go, i will make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club, as that is where I get trade prices on flights, hotels, train fares, all sorts of types of holidays and a whole range of travel related purchases.
00:01:43
Speaker
You can access the same trade prices by becoming a member of the Ultimate Travel Club. You can do that by using the link in the description which has a built-in discount. Now that I have paid some bills it is time to make an episode of Rest and Recreation and say hello Joe.
00:02:02
Speaker
Hello. How are you today, Joe? Good. Happy to be here. I'm pleased you are because this is exactly what we wanted to do with rest and recreation is find people who had hobbies, which were interesting that perhaps people had heard about, but not actually participated in and just like explore what it's all about.
00:02:21
Speaker
Yeah. suppose The first thing to mention is that you're in the United States where you're described as a rail fan.
US Railfans vs. UK Train Spotters
00:02:30
Speaker
Whereas over here in the UK, you'd be called a train spotter.
00:02:34
Speaker
You've visited the United Kingdom, I know. Is there a difference between what people in the United States do and what people in the UK do if they're interested in in trains?
00:02:45
Speaker
ah Fundamentally, I would say no. I mean, generally, the goal is to go out, find a train track. wait for a train to go by and either videotape or take still pictures like I do.
00:02:58
Speaker
and So you're creating a record of the various different trains that you've seen and it's a great way to travel around and see different parts of the country I suppose. Yeah, yeah. Yeah I know some people do it for proof that they've seen a certain engine or something and then there are other people that also just do it purely for art form. Yeah. So they they'll try and find, say, a scenic bridge and they'll take a picture just a regular train going across a big bridge.
00:03:24
Speaker
ah Yeah, I can see the attraction of that. I suppose in the UK, the origins of the expression train spotter is probably because every train has a ah name and every train has a number and you'd be spotting the numbers of the trains and keeping a record of which trains that you'd seen.
00:03:42
Speaker
I suppose that goes back to the time of trains first starting with that with their numbers. But what got you interested in train trainspotting, railfanning?
00:03:53
Speaker
How did your interest start?
Joe's Lifelong Passion for Trains
00:03:55
Speaker
What sparked it? Well, I'm not exactly sure, to be honest. um My parents used to show me the the Thomas the Tank Engine yeah TV show, the kids' show.
00:04:06
Speaker
So i I have to assume it came from that, because i can't I can't remember a time in my life when I wasn't interested in trains. So it really has been a lifelong hobby of mine.
00:04:16
Speaker
It's a good place to start, Thomas the Tank Engine. Yeah. And then from there, it's developed. So your particular interest is in the photography of the trains. Yes. What types of images are you taking? Well, still images.
00:04:31
Speaker
I'm not really into the ah video as as much. It's kind of dependent on where I live, really, because it's not super scenic in the part of Michigan I live.
Photographing Railroad Signals
00:04:41
Speaker
But around my area and in Ohio, neighboring state, there's some lines with some interesting um infrastructure, like signals.
00:04:50
Speaker
And I have a particular interest in old railroad signals. So I like to i like to find old signals and photograph them and photograph the the trains that use them, basically.
00:05:05
Speaker
You laugh about that. And I can imagine there might be people also laughing about this guy's in signals and an old signals. He's very specific about his interest in signals.
00:05:16
Speaker
Yeah. But there's a huge aspect of like these things just exist and we walk past them, we drive past them, we go past them on a train without actually really thinking about them. And yet they are part of history and part of what made the railways work. Yeah. And as we get more and more technological, suppose many of these things are disappearing probably faster than we really know. Yeah, exactly. And that's that's why i like to find them, because they're getting replaced by modern ones that are not as interesting, ah at least in my opinion. When you talk about signals, I'm thinking that the older ones are the ones on posts with bars that moved up and down.
00:05:59
Speaker
And the more modern ones are electronic light thing, much more like a traffic light from ah from a road. and These older ones are controlled by wires. Somebody pulled the lever inside a signal box and the signalman or person pulled the lever inside the signal box that changed the points and the signal um so that the train driver knew what to do. Now um it's all electronic and like digital.
00:06:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that is the way
Centralized Traffic Control and Safety
00:06:28
Speaker
it is now. I think the signals you're talking about are called semaphore signals, the ones that move up and down. yeah We do have those in the U.S., but not near me, unfortunately. The old signals I like that are near me are what are called color position lights.
00:06:43
Speaker
I'll try to describe it for you. The signal's round. yes There's one light in the center of the disc, and then at different angles, straight up and down,
00:06:55
Speaker
ah forty five 90 there are lights on the outside of the circles right for a green signal or ah train to go straight there will be three lights in a vertical line going up and down the the round disc right and that tells the train to go straight they can go routes clear at the 45 angle there will be ah line of three lights at a 45 degree angle that tells the train, slow down, the next signal is going to be red.
00:07:23
Speaker
And then the last position is the horizontal position, where the three lights are horizontal. And that means stop, don't pass the signal. right The theory behind this signal position was if one of the light bulbs burned out, the signal would still be readable. Yes, because you'd still be able to recognize the positioning of the lights within the disk. Yes. What's the history of those those signals then? They were first implemented, I think, in the 1920s or 1930s, which was around the time when railroads in the U.S. s were first doing what's called centralized traffic control, where a person in a dispatch center would control the movement of trains.
00:08:02
Speaker
There were several railroads in the U.S. that adopted that signaling system at that time. Fortunately, some of them have managed to survive for 100 years near me, which is pretty remarkable. It is.
00:08:16
Speaker
It is, because I'm imagining that some of these things are being quite remote locations. Yeah, they certainly can be. So getting to them can be quite a trek every so often. You can't always get to them by your car. Yeah, fortunately, there's a pretty popular spot. It's about an hour from me where they there's two rail lines that cross. And i think there's there's probably five or six of those signals, like kind of around that railroad crossing, that place is easy to get to, fortunately.
00:08:45
Speaker
But when you say back in the 1930s, train companies started using this centralized system for controlling the movement of trains. What happened before that? Was it sort of like the driver is responsible for their train and how fast it goes and or you when it stops and all those sorts of things was it a bit like being a ah ship's captain at sea uh sort of so the way the way it worked before that and actually there are still lines in the u.s that run this way they use what's called train orders where your train is starting from a spot and going to another spot you would basically get a piece of paper that tells you you're going to meet train
00:09:27
Speaker
acts the other way at a particular siding. So you would drive your train to that siding and then have to wait until the other train showed up. him And they would give you like a time, and I'm using time in quotations, that the other train would show up.
00:09:42
Speaker
So you would have an idea of how long you might wait, but you might wait for a while. Depending on what the other driver had done. But you're saying that one train would have priority over the other one on a particular stretch of track? Yeah, generally, yes. Can you imagine there must have been some times when drivers got a little bit fed up and of waiting? Yeah, I imagine that happened.
00:10:04
Speaker
for um I'm sure there were also train accidents that happened because the the engineer like didn't stop at the right siding or something like that. But what it brings to mind though is that in the 1930s when this type of signaling was introduced, that would have meant that the railroad itself was safer and because it it was better controlled and also would have meant that trains could then also have traveled faster. Yeah, that's exactly what happened.
00:10:32
Speaker
So this signal that you're fascinated with is more than just a signal. It's actually the thing that enabled... people to travel safely and quickly across the United States from East coast to West coast and vice versa. Well, essentially complete that that piece of signaling equipment will have changed the economy of the United States. Yeah. Yeah, they did. And of course your hobby is that you like to photograph them and with the trains passing them, but you're creating us, I suppose, in many ways, a historical record of the signals and how they are still working and and still in place.
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah, that is kind of one of my goals of it actually is to just kind of document their existence. Some of these things are in remote areas, but others are easier to access. And I'm thinking, when I see people in the UK, train spotters on the platforms of a station, looking for the particular numbers or waiting for a specific train, like the Flying Scotsman, to pass through the station, there's quite a little community of people with this sort of interest in train. Yeah, definitely. It ah it tends to be like an internet thing, kind of. There's a lot of message boards. at least in the U.S. for a particular area. Right. And what sort of things are mentioned on the message boards? ah So there will be discussion of like interesting train locations, like physical locations, not locations of trains.
00:11:58
Speaker
There will also be discussions of interesting trains that may be coming through the area. People will be located at different points along the line and they'll like report when the train passed a particular spot so that people further down the line can go stuff like that. Yeah.
00:12:14
Speaker
You make it sound very everyday, run-of-the-mill type of things. But what is interesting for me as an ah HR ah professional with my interest in psychology is that this is a group of people within with an interest that can almost be, yeah, it's just my interest, it's my hobby.
00:12:33
Speaker
But the ability to communicate with other people with the same interest increases the level of enjoyment that other people can have. Sharing information about what you have seen, what you've experienced, increases other people's enjoyment or ability to enjoy that same type of experience as well. Yeah, for sure. To me, it's like being a part of any other social group, whether it's like a like a golf league or pickleball group or anything, really.
00:13:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's essentially you're building a community. Communities are based on a shared interest rather than a shared activity. So what I mean by that is, yeah we'll talk about school friends and work friends, work colleagues. We were in the same school, so therefore we were friends.
00:13:22
Speaker
But our only level of interest in anything is the fact that we were in the same school or we worked in the same company. you're building a community with stronger connections because it's based upon an interest rather than an activity. So the activity is going to work, but this is an interest that you have.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And the interesting thing too is that you can be a train spotter and like you can go by yourself to the physical location and still feel like you're part of a group
Community and Railfanning Online
00:13:55
Speaker
because of the the internet message board thing.
00:13:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Do you go to many places and actually find yourself the only person with an interest in rail or train spotting actually there? This is a bigger community than many people may think. And I'm sure there are lots of opportunities to meet people with the same sort of interest.
00:14:16
Speaker
Yeah. there' In the US, there are spots that are kind of known for being a rail fan, like popular place. When I go to places like that, there are usually other people there.
00:14:29
Speaker
But something that also happens is that a lot of the the rail fans will, they live potentially near a certain set of tracks. So they spend a lot of their time near that certain set of track and they might be the only one in that area. Right.
00:14:44
Speaker
So people are deciding to buy houses, homes in places that make it easier for them to get involved in their hobby. Yeah. Yeah. Potentially. I know here in the United Kingdom, when we took out a lot of our branch network of of railway lines, so um people ended up buying the the old stations and cut converting them into homes.
00:15:08
Speaker
And there are a few um quite close to where I am. But the interesting thing about the village in which I live is that it is south of the river. And the village where I live is not too far away from York. And I know that you've been to York and gone to the UK's National Railway Museum.
00:15:25
Speaker
Yeah. And York was one of the hubs of the the railway network in the UK back in the in the time where everybody traveled by rail.
00:15:35
Speaker
George Hudson was the big engineer in the north of England, Kingdon Brunel down in the south of England. There was a big debate as to how um the town of Harrogate and the city of York should be connected by by rail.
00:15:52
Speaker
And so you to remember the village that I live in is on the south side of the river. And there is another village on the north side of the river. And the railway company decided to go to the north side of the river.
00:16:06
Speaker
So the village that I lived in did not get a railway station. Oh, I see. That's too bad. It is. I'm sure there is a movie somewhere in that story of you know the two villages fighting over where who would get the railway line, who would get the station, who would get all the benefits that come with being on a railway line, and how the whole sort of thing would have would have played out. Rail travel revolutionized the world. yeah it It's almost as if my sleepy little Blackwater didn't get that opportunity.
00:16:38
Speaker
Now we've got a motorway instead. LAUGHTER Much less interesting. Very much less interesting. But what is it when you say you know motorways are less interesting than and railways, why do you think that is? What is it about railways that draws people to them?
00:16:57
Speaker
Well, i guess I guess for me, it's I think a train locomotive is a more interesting piece of equipment than a car, even though I work in the auto industry. Trains are more interesting machines than cars are, and I also think a factor is if you go to a a highway or a motorway, you can see 50 cars pass in a minute, but you have to go and sit at a train line for a much longer period of time to see the same number of 50 trains. Yes, so the the train is more of an event, an occasion.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And it it just happens less frequently. So when it does happen, yeah, it's a bigger event. Yeah, yeah. It's more of a structured tour, I suppose. Yeah. And you do, I think, when you're sitting in a train or watching a train, it's difficult to to appreciate the level of engineering that goes into the construction of a locomotive and the sheer power that is involved. At the National Railway Museum in York, they have the locomotives that on the same ground level as the people visiting the museum yeah you're normally used to seeing a train at platform height so in the uk we have platforms that are at the level of the door i know in north america you don't always have that platform sort of situation you climb up into the train yeah i'd say that's more common actually but here in the uk we're at platform height but being in that museum in the
00:18:27
Speaker
engine room where they've got the turntable and you're standing alongside some of these literally immense steam engines and diesel locomotives they are huge and very intimidating objects but that they need to be in order to have enough power to pull the the size of trains that they are pulling yeah they are amazing machines really Yeah. And I know that in America, North America, they tend to be even bigger than we have here in the UK. And, and, uh, know, the, the freight trains that you have go on for a long time. I did a journey from, Montreal to Ottawa in a train, which traveled very slowly.
00:19:10
Speaker
And felt as if it was going through people's back gardens, it felt like at one point. And then oh wow the train line in some of the places that I visited in North America seems to go down the middle of the main street.
00:19:22
Speaker
Yeah. It's almost as if the train was there first. In some places, that's the case, where the train... was there first and the infrastructure was built around it. We need to get the train from A to B, but the train needs something along the way. So the infrastructure would be the refueling, the rewatering, and then a small town builds up like around it.
00:19:43
Speaker
Yeah. And then another Another component of that too is terrain, especially in mountains, right where the only suitable path for the track is through the town.
00:19:55
Speaker
You mentioned about the signals being that you take the photographs of being 100 years old.
Future of Rail Signaling
00:20:01
Speaker
and then being replaced. What's going to be this so um yeah the future of rail travel in terms of the signals? Will we we see things directly taken into the cab for the driver, or will the the track line signals remain in some way?
00:20:15
Speaker
Well, I think the cab thing you mentioned for the driver actually already exists, at least in the U.S., but it exists in conjunction with trackside signals. Right.
00:20:26
Speaker
The signal system and the cab system kind of work together. Mm-hmm. I guess my opinion is that the some form of signaling will always be a thing for railroading.
00:20:38
Speaker
You have to know what is coming the other way or what is ahead of you, don't you? Especially since current trains can't stop quickly. ah so
00:20:47
Speaker
No, they definitely don't. But anything big and powerful takes a little while to come to ah to a halt. yeah and Yes, I know what you mean. the The photographs that you're taking, where can people see them?
00:21:00
Speaker
I don't know if you're familiar with Flickr. the um It's ah like a Yahoo-affiliated kind of like picture site where people can sign up and upload their their photographs. yeah And I have a ah have a Flickr page.
00:21:17
Speaker
Most people who do some form of art, I tend to be picky about the pictures I post. I was going to ask you like what makes a good picture in this sort of situation? How would you describe a good picture? What do you look for in a good picture?
00:21:34
Speaker
It's framing of the the subject, either the engine or the signal. um Lighting is another one because the train moves in a fixed direction. Sometimes the lighting isn't ideal.
00:21:50
Speaker
but Sometimes finding the right vantage point to get both the signal and a train in a picture can be challenging. So I know, especially in my early days of doing the photography, I had to do a lot of kind of experimentation yeah with like where to position myself in relation to the train and the signal to kind of get the right look, I guess, for lack of a better word.
00:22:17
Speaker
You're taking a photograph of something that is very powerful, being almost controlled by something that is very small. It's just the light. Yeah. And it's the relationship between the two.
00:22:29
Speaker
But I suppose one of the things that is really interesting is that, you you you talk about the photographs as being an art form. And whilst there's an interest in trains and the engineering that goes around trains and the infrastructure,
00:22:44
Speaker
It's also in a form of... The trains provide the route through which you can have your artistic expression. Yeah, for sure.
00:22:55
Speaker
Did that start off as just like a desire to be creative or being scientific or in taking the photographs or historical, but then the the creative possibilities for the photography started to emerge?
00:23:11
Speaker
Yeah, the creative part... for me at least, definitely came later. It was more about the trains themselves at first. Yeah, yeah. it's It's interesting, my my interest actually started with modeling, like train models, so and then and my when I was a teenager, i kind of lost interest in the model part and became more interested in the real ones.
00:23:36
Speaker
So do you had your model railway as ah as a child and then evolved into the the real big things. Yeah, yeah. Have you ever driven a train? No, I haven't. At least not in real life.
00:23:47
Speaker
Is that on the bucket list? Yeah, it is on the bucket list. so I would love to do that someday. Well, Richard Branson, Virgin Trains, I know he he he listens every episode of the Rest and Recreation. So maybe he'll have a train that he can let you have a ride in and ah put front in the cabin and drive it for a while. Oh, maybe. Yeah, that'd be great.
00:24:08
Speaker
We never know. All sorts of things can happen. yep It is fascinating to hear you talk about your hobby, the rail fanning, what we call train spotting, and all the different ways in which it's more than simply just looking at trains. There's the historical aspect of it, the recording things which are disappearing, and the artistic element of it as well. I'm looking forward to... ah having a look at your Flickr page and seeing more of your your artworks. But for today, Joe, I've really enjoyed it. It's been very interesting and do appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for having me. i'm
00:24:49
Speaker
I'm always happy to talk about trains. You do it so well. You make it really interesting. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abusida, and in this episode of Rest and Recreation, I have been talking to Joe Deppi about railfanning, or what we call trainspotting, in the United Kingdom.
00:25:10
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abusida.co.uk. There is a link in the description. If you're going to go out doing recording historical infrastructure, it's a good idea to be healthy. So staying healthy is easier if you know the risks early.
Health Test Promotion and Podcast Conclusion
00:25:26
Speaker
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00:25:42
Speaker
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00:26:01
Speaker
You can access easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime via your secure personal wellness hub account. There is a link and a discount code in the description.
00:26:13
Speaker
I'm sure you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of Rest and Recreation as much as Joe and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:26:25
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abusida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:26:38
Speaker
Until the next episode of Rest and Recreation, thank you for listening and goodbye.