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#90 ExoAcademian - UFO Phenomenon, Consciousness & High Strangeness
482 Plays2 years ago
The ExoAcademian YouTube channel addresses inter-related topics such as the UFO Phenomenon, alien abductions, remote viewing and other psi phenomena, near death experiences, out of body experiences, interdimensionality, and high strangeness through the Point of Convergence and Liminal Phrames podcasts. In addition to discussing these and related topics, show host ExoAcademian will discuss their apparent connection as contact modalities within the bedrock of entangled Consciousness.
Exo Twitter: https://twitter.com/ExoAcademian
Point of Convergence website: https://pointofconvergence.net/
Watch Phenomenology here: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/phenomenol...
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Disclosure Team Twitter: https://twitter.com/disclosureteam_
Exo Twitter: https://twitter.com/ExoAcademian
Point of Convergence website: https://pointofconvergence.net/
Watch Phenomenology here: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/phenomenol...
!! SUPPORT DISCLOSURE TEAM !!
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/disclosureteam
Buy me a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/disclosu...
Disclosure Team Merch: https://disclosureteam.bigcartel.com/
Disclosure Team Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/disclosure_...
Disclosure Team Twitter: https://twitter.com/disclosureteam_
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Transcript
Introduction to Anomalous Podcast Network
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Anomalous Podcast Network. Multiple voices, one phenomenon.
00:00:47
Speaker
Hey guys, how's it going? Welcome back to the channel. I'm Vinnie Adams. It is Saturday. So you better believe I've got my glass of wine. One moment. There we go. Good to see everybody here in the live chat. So many familiar faces. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I really, really appreciate it. I hope everyone's had a good week and he's already having a good weekend.
00:01:14
Speaker
I've had a great day, family stuff, and now we're here. So I can't wait for this conversation.
Meet Darren aka XO Academia
00:01:21
Speaker
So I've been following this guy's work for quite some time. But finally, the mystery has kind of dissipated slightly because we now
00:01:32
Speaker
We now know who this man is. And so I'm just, can't wait. So I'm just going to bring him in straight away. So please welcome Darren, AKA XO Academia. Darren, thank you so much for being here, man. Vinny, happy to be here with you and hide everybody that's out there. No, it's, it's, this is, like I said, I've been looking forward to this for some time since, since we sort of first spoke. And yeah, I guess the first thing would be is like you were kind of anonymous for quite some time and.
00:02:02
Speaker
I can tell you from my point of view that that added some serious mystique to everything you do. So tell me what was the decision to finally sort of make that step into being yourself or showing yourself?
00:02:16
Speaker
Right. Well, when I began my podcast, I was thinking, you know, I didn't wasn't sure how much traction the podcast would get.
Gaining Traction with Anomalous Topics
00:02:23
Speaker
You know, I just was interested in beginning it so I could explore topics that I was interested in, not just the UFO phenomenon, but, you know, sci phenomena and paranormal stuff and the fabric of reality and how it's all connected. And the more I investigated it, the more I realized it was all connected.
00:02:39
Speaker
And as that got more traction and people started interacting with me, I started getting invitations to be involved in various things and projects and whatnot. And it just became increasingly difficult to do that as an anonymous person with an alien avatar being my only identity.
00:02:57
Speaker
So, you know, as I got involved in a couple of events, more people became aware of my name and what I look like. And I just kind of got used to it. And once that kind of happened, I'm like, Yeah, this, you know, this is nice. And I know that for myself, I recognize that
00:03:13
Speaker
The mystique can be nice for a while, but eventually you get to the point where you pick up some information from people's body language and their demeanor and their presence. So I thought, yeah, I could see how people would like to have more of the 3D impression. So that's why I sort of came out and made myself known. Yeah, that's awesome. I think it's a great thing, man. I do like, I mean, as much as I love the mystique, I do.
00:03:37
Speaker
I do like that personable approach just as much. So yeah, it's great. So like you mentioned there about connections as well between different aspects of the phenomenon and paranormal and stuff like
Origins of Darren's Interest in Phenomena
00:03:50
Speaker
that. Let's take it back and do you remember what first sort of sparked your interest and what got you into these kind of subjects?
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, that goes back a long way. I would say when I was like a toddler even, my mom used to remark that I was, I would go outside and look at the SARS kind of thing in the backyard and was asking big questions at an early age, which she definitely noticed and
00:04:16
Speaker
kind of has jokingly said that I sort of came in like a little adult and was asking deep questions early on. And then I think later on, I got interested in Whitley Strieber's work, was really fascinated with his books and his experience and trying to understand that.
Personal UFO Encounters
00:04:37
Speaker
I remember going up to like mountain cabins with friends of mine in the Pacific Northwest and
00:04:44
Speaker
You know, one time I remember us going around a corner, we were driving up to this cabin, it was middle of the night kind of thing. We went around a corner and this huge light suddenly shone down on us from the trees, right? And so I had just read communion at the time. So I kind of freaked out and thought immediately, you know, this is it, abduction time. Turns out it was like a floodlight that went on over this area where they keep all the salt for the roads. And so it just like gets triggered by movement. But for a second there, I thought for sure.
00:05:11
Speaker
And by the way, there was another occasion when we got to the cabin.
00:05:15
Speaker
At one point we were like playing a board game, you know, again, middle of nowhere kind of thing up in the, in the wilderness. And the front door suddenly swung open in the middle, you know, like 10 o'clock at night and it's dark. And it was an interesting sociological experiment because everyone around the table freaked out, but everybody had a different fear about what it was. Like what one of the women thought it was like an ax murderer, somebody else thought it was a bear, somebody else thought it was a cougar. And I immediately thought, it's great aliens, you know. I just read,
00:05:43
Speaker
So that kind of got me into that. And then I
From Skepticism to Acknowledgment
00:05:49
Speaker
went for like probably 10 years or so where I didn't think about it so much. I was still in the back burner. I was interested in different esoteric topics. And I was interested, again, in reality and whatnot and consciousness. That's why it was kind of like the perfect brew. And later on, I kind of realized it was all connected. But then having kind of an anomalous experience of my own,
00:06:14
Speaker
you know, around 2005 also kind of added to that. And then just being married to somebody at the time who had just had unusual encounters, had kind of, you know, anomalous stuff going on. And I was actually more skeptical originally and had more of a nuts and bolts kind of perspective, I think. And yet I saw it consistently happening over time. And so that kind of led me into that too.
00:06:43
Speaker
And then when I finally got in sort of like around the whole New York Times, 2017 time really came back in strong then.
Connecting Phenomena and Consciousness
00:06:51
Speaker
And then the more I looked into it and saw the overlap with psi phenomena and quantum theory and consciousness, then it really had me hooked and I've been going strong ever since. Amazing. See, I come from really much different background. I spent probably a decade plus.
00:07:08
Speaker
coming from such a nuts and bolts research aspect and it's only in the last year, year and a half that I've kind of since I've been doing this and my social media accounts found people that are coming from from more similar side to yourself with consciousness and stuff and so now my I've expanded my perceptions and everything and now I'm really just want to absorb all that kind of consciousness stuff but I am still very new to it so
00:07:33
Speaker
How would you describe consciousness? Because it's such a big word and it can mean so many different things. So if you were to relate it to the phenomena and the paranormal, how would you describe it to somebody?
00:07:46
Speaker
Well, I think that the first thing I would touch on in terms of how it immediately connects to the UFO phenomenon is that so many of the experiencers or contactees or witnesses have had unusual perceptual shifts in what goes on, right? So it's, you and I might look at a truck drive by, I think in the UK, you would say a lorry would drive by. And
00:08:11
Speaker
we would probably describe the same thing, right? And if we got 100 people around us, we would describe the exact same thing, same color, same basic shape. You might get some differences around just witnesses remember things slightly differently. Even in a court of law, that would happen. But what's fascinating with the UFO phenomenon is that people will sometimes get a custom perceptual experience. So you could have two people, like in the classic abduction case, you might have one person that remembers a UFO.
00:08:39
Speaker
And a brother remembers a school bus or cases where one person remembers a camper van and somebody else remembers a cabin with Christmas lights, even though it was July. Do you know what I mean? Like weird stuff like that, where at first you start saying, is it just that they're playing with our perceptual apparatus? Are they changing how we're perceiving what they're there? People often talk about screen memories. They put one memory in place of what's really going on.
00:09:07
Speaker
either to fool you depending on your point of view or to maybe make it less debilitating because they might be shocking to see. But the more you dig, it goes even deeper than that. People often will have changes in not just how they perceive the world in terms of visually, but they will have personality shifts. They will change their values. Not just because they suddenly go, okay, maybe there's ETs out there.
00:09:36
Speaker
But something about the way they see reality seems to change you know and people like Gary Nolan are doing some really interesting research into, as you know, like, is there differences in the brain, you know, that we could track this to, but that of course raises interesting questions around.
00:09:53
Speaker
So are some people predisposed to this at birth? And is there a genetic lineage? Or does something get switched on? When we look at side phenomena, it seems that everybody, like Dean Radin's work would suggest that everyone has some degree of side capacity, some much more than others. You know, it's really interesting how
00:10:10
Speaker
Some of their research has suggested that in certain parts of the world where there was persecution and basically killing of certain people that were considered witches or witch doctors or anybody who kind of had information they shouldn't have had, it was assumed that that was like information from the devil or whatever.
00:10:27
Speaker
And so those people were often put to death. And so you actually can see that now when you track the lineage of those populations, that the people who weren't in those places tend to still have the strongest ability in terms of side capacity. And when I say side capacity, I mean, being able to access information outside the parameters of space time, outside the constrictions of space time as we understand it, right?
Rethinking Space-Time and UFOs
00:10:53
Speaker
And then you look at really great researchers like Jacques Vallée, who've looked into this for decades and decades. And everyone says, you know, if you haven't read Jacques Vallée, you don't really understand the UFO phenomenon at all. That's like, you know, UFO Phenomenon 101 is Reed Jacques Vallée and John Keeler.
00:11:09
Speaker
And what he says is that what the UFO phenomenon teaches us is that we don't actually understand space-time. It's not just that there's some pieces we're missing, we're just missing the cherry on top. He's saying they do stuff that just to us looks incredible. So yeah, all of that together makes it very clear that when they operate with us, it seems to be at a level of consciousness. And the last piece I'll add to that is that
00:11:36
Speaker
A lot of the data, again, with experiences of witnesses, and I don't just mean people who remember being abducted. I mean, even people who just saw something in the sky. You know, there's changes in them that makes them more likely than the average population then on to have something like a near death experience or a precognitive dream.
00:11:56
Speaker
even to experience telekinetic effects in their home, poltergeist is somehow connected. The skinwalker ranch kind of hitchhiker effect, seeing UFOs and seeing Sasquatch and seeing portals and then a relative or a neighbor 3000 miles away suddenly has experiences that suggest is connected to someone they didn't even necessarily know that well, but are somehow socially connected to.
00:12:24
Speaker
again all of this suggests that somehow the the common link between all of those different kind of phenomena is consciousness and so that's why for me it's even come down to is this saying something fundamental about reality and that's the level at which these others are operating on and they're sort of hacking into our construct which is space time rather than space time being fundamental
00:12:49
Speaker
Amazing. So do you see, like I said, I come from that nuts and bolts and I'm sort of beginning to open up to the consciousness side, but where does it first meet? Do you think for a lot of people, like how could we intertwine the two to, to then sort of go in one direction, but encompassing all aspects of it?
00:13:08
Speaker
Well, I think some people that come in more form and have some bolts perspective will focus on the craft, which I can understand. That was my initial introduction too. It's really interesting in terms of a technology, right? And by the way, that's another point that's really fascinating is you can't, it's really hard to tease out like the spiritual, energetic consciousness aspects from the technology. Sometimes people who have had the most
00:13:35
Speaker
spiritually transformative experiences have also come across metamaterial that's later been examined by the government and whatnot. And has even led to some breakthroughs in biotechnology and things like that. So really fascinating stuff that people usually think of as being separate topics. But I would say to people,
00:13:59
Speaker
Take experience for account seriously. It doesn't mean you have to take everyone seriously. It doesn't mean that everyone is telling the absolute truth. It doesn't mean that everyone's remembering perfectly. But when you look at the body of data, the literature behind experience for accounts, and you look at the credibility of someone like a Jacques Vallée, who does his homework right, interviews people, has done it for decades,
00:14:18
Speaker
goes in with unprejudiced eyes and really tries to just see what really the data is telling him. And he checks these people's credibility. They're professional people who have reputations and families. They're not the kind of people who are looking for fame or fortune or saying something crazy or being in the National Enquirer. They actually often, it's the last thing they want to acknowledge, and yet eventually they do because it is so transformative. So I would say to people they're new to it.
00:14:44
Speaker
keep following the rabbit trail, see where it takes you, see how far down the hole you get. And I think you'll quickly find that you end up in this territory inevitably. And then I would just say, keep an open mind. I recently heard Gary Nolan talking about this.
00:15:00
Speaker
for the skeptics of the world, not just like debunkers, but also like scientific skeptics, his point would be clearly we have outlier data that's saying that our current model for reality is insufficient. And it's insufficient to a degree that we need to ask some really daunting questions about some of our deepest assumptions about what is real, what is reality. That's what this data seems to be telling us. And so I would just say that people embrace that, try to treat it like an adventure. I understand for some people that's
00:15:29
Speaker
like discombobulating, but I would say just follow that, see where it goes. Take on a childlike demeanor if you can, that we're all in this really unique time. We're discovering things for the first time together, and it might be civilization changing. Excellent. I've got a question here from Elena. Hello, Elena. Thank you for the question. What do you think the consciousness, gravity, and magnetism connection is? Yeah, excellent question, Elena.
00:15:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's a fascinating one. I would say that, so you look at someone like Donald Hoffman's work, right? And what he'll say is that what we often notice in physical reality is a correlation effect, but not necessarily a causation. So for instance, he would say, if you might have people that show up at a train platform,
00:16:22
Speaker
And then 10 minutes later, a train shows up or five minutes later. And so you could look at that and say, aha, people arriving at a platform cause a train to come, right? And we would say, no, that's not true. What's going on is some deeper reality, like a train schedule is such that it causes both people to gather together, right? So that's the deeper reality. And if you look at too superficial a level, you could make the wrong conclusions, draw the wrong conclusions about what's going on.
00:16:49
Speaker
And so what he's saying is even when we see, even when Gary Nolan and Jacques Gallet are looking at, you know, different parts of the brain and how that seems to be impacted by contact experiences,
00:17:01
Speaker
That might still be a correlate rather than a causation kind of factor. And so in the same way, I would say with gravity and magnetism, that whatever the deeper reality is, whether it's consciousness or something else, that sort of is the bedrock behind the construct of space time, it ends up being manifested in such a way that we see these correlates with gravity and magnetism.
00:17:22
Speaker
I don't necessarily think those are causing it any more than I think people arriving at a train station is causing a train, but it does tell us that it's somehow connected and it's pointing to some deeper reality. And I think we should pay attention to that and even when it comes to things that people might usually ignore around astrology, which I'm not big into but I'm saying,
00:17:42
Speaker
there does seem to be some something behind the idea that certain magnetic anomalies or certain gravitational alignments can perhaps change our consciousness because that again somehow affects the energy waves that travel through the cosmos which we you know are streaming into our brain even though I think our consciousness is non-local so it's very likely that does play a role and that would be an interesting thing to study but I still think ultimately that points to some
00:18:10
Speaker
Underlying reality that is beyond space-time itself Yeah, that's so eloquently put as well. I love it I absolutely do and one thing I have noticed that you know, a lot of these things go beyond our knowledge so that they basically become just hypothesis of What the possibilities might be and I do see a lot of frustration from some people with that What I've learned to do is be patient
00:18:33
Speaker
form hypotheses, let's give it time for people to work these things out. And I think that's, I find something comforting in that that people are just using their brains to find all these different possibilities. And, you know, hopefully one day we do find one that we suddenly prove and it's another aha moment. So
00:18:51
Speaker
Yeah, I really do. This is why I'm new and so open to learning from this other new perspective that's come into my realm. So I really appreciate that. But one thing I guess that I have been aware of regarding or relating to consciousness throughout the years was CE5, I guess, was my first introduction to
Human-Initiated Contact Experiences
00:19:12
Speaker
it. But obviously now I'm more likely to call it, you know, ice or human initiated contact experiences.
00:19:21
Speaker
Again, it's not something I've really had a chance to try or even speak about that much. So again, where does that relate again to consciousness, but the UFO subject as a whole? Right. So that that relates to what I'm saying about space time initially, first of all, because it seems like the data behind C5. And by the way, I would point that out that this is important, I think, for people who, again, who are more nuts and bolts, is that
00:19:49
Speaker
These realities exist in the data. That's where I'm getting this from. And so it's not about wishful thinking. It's not about some people hoping that this is all love and light and angelic or vice versa. It's about saying, what is the body of literature tell us about people's experiences as they've been reported over time? And even if you downplay one of those data points, ultimately that creates a data set which is compelling, right? Something's going on.
00:20:15
Speaker
But with the space-time thing, the reason why I say that comes into it is because it seems like there's times where we can initiate contact, send an intention, a positive intention to meet with this other intelligence that is also positive and benign, benevolent. We want to meet and have some sort of introduction. And then sometimes it can happen almost immediately.
00:20:44
Speaker
even though supposedly they're coming from somewhere else in the physical universe, right, and yet it happens instantaneously. So you could say they have just really great warp drives, or you could say somehow they seem to be bypassing space-time altogether again, that it's not, or they're using a wormhole to like go from A to B, like by folding space, you know, something like that.
00:21:05
Speaker
But again, I think it's more saying that they're hacking into our construct the same way that I might drop a folder into your desktop and you might go, wait, where did that desktop folder come from? I've got to chase around my computer to find out where this alien is that put this folder here. And actually, the alien just hacked in with a Wi-Fi connection and dropped it in and dropped back out again. And we wonder, how are they coming in and coming out? But that's what I think it's more like.
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah, and with the CU5, the other thing that's interesting even beyond CU5, you think back to like the tic-tac event, right? And how it seemed to know the rendezvous point before it had been even announced. And that's one of the most top secret points, data points, right? Was that somehow this intelligence knew where the rendezvous point was gonna be ahead of time. And so again, it seems like there's this ability to have knowledge outside of space time.
00:22:00
Speaker
And with CE5, yeah, it's about making that connection. And there are people who will literally say that
00:22:10
Speaker
They will take a photo in the sky just because they'll have an inkling sometimes to take a photo in the sky. They're not thinking UFO. Again, this is the consciousness piece. They just have some reason to believe they should take a photo. Maybe up in like a part of the sky, there's nothing really there. And only later on will they actually find a UFO in the photo. So that's fascinating for a couple of reasons. One is that they were somehow directed telepathically to do that.
00:22:33
Speaker
Number two, with the naked eye, they couldn't see anything. And yet, after the fact and the artifact of the photo, it's there, right? And so again, these kinds of phenomena that happen seem to question our understanding of how things were supposed to happen in reality. Amazing.
Entities Beyond Space-Time?
00:22:51
Speaker
Yeah. Do you think that if they can manipulate space time or even exist outside of it, do you think they could
00:23:00
Speaker
live or dwell somewhere that there is no space time you know rather than just a different dimension that you know does have those kind of laws maybe i'm not quite sure what the right words are but are they or could they be that different that they can just bypass all the things we know and we we know through our knowledge of physics and and then i guess the second part of that question is
00:23:28
Speaker
Well, I suppose it's a separate question, but could it be dangerous in any way? Is there any danger to human initiated contact? Right. So the first question, I think that's a great question. I think that
00:23:41
Speaker
One of the things that's interesting when you look back at history is that the hypotheses we come up with to try to make sense of the phenomenon often arises out of cutting-edge physics of the time. So whatever our cutting-edge physics is suggesting might be possible, we start saying, well, maybe that's how we make sense of the UFO phenomenon. So for people like Valet, again, they started thinking interdimensional. When we started having M theory and notions of 11, 12 dimensions,
00:24:12
Speaker
then people started imagining and the idea of a multiverse, right? So there you have the idea that,
00:24:19
Speaker
you know, rather than believing that we just happen to be in a universe that seems really custom crafted for us, you know, which makes us seem really important. So what's happened with science is they say, no, that's just coincidental because actually every time a decision point comes, the universe splits in two. And so there's like a multiverse of many, many universes. And we just happen to be in the one, not surprisingly, that is the one that's suitable for us. But it's not because we're special, it's just because this is one of many, right?
00:24:47
Speaker
And so from that notion of a multiverse, which, again, was posed as a hypothesis to try to make sense of phenomena we were seeing in physics and complexities we were seeing in physics, once that was hypothesized, then people that are familiar with the UFO phenomenon said, wait a second, maybe that's how they're getting here. They're popping in from an alternate dimension or an alternate universe rather than from Alpha Centauri in our physical universe.
00:25:15
Speaker
So that's possible that that's happening. But to your question, it's possible that they exist outside the construct of space-time altogether. And in fact, Donald Hoffman has said the reason why the Fermi Paradox exists, and the Fermi Paradox, for those who are not familiar, says if the universe is as big as it is, and is even though there's plenty of planets, most that would not support life, because of the size of the cosmos, there should be plenty that should support life,
00:25:43
Speaker
we should see still plenty of civilizations, even if some die out or blow themselves up or whatever, we should still have plenty out there. Why aren't we seeing them? That's the paradox. And what he would suggest, Hoffman, is that it's because
00:25:59
Speaker
space-time is our construct that evolution has served up for us. So we make our way through the world. It's like a it's a hack. It's a series of shortcuts to keep us alive so we can reproduce. And that's its only point. Its point is not to show us reality as it is. And he would suggest that the the there's even mathematical proofs that demonstrate that
00:26:21
Speaker
our ancestors didn't see reality as it was. They were the ones that saw the shortcuts, like seeing a video game, a virtual reality. They survived because they had the best shortcuts. If you get too much information, you drown in it, you die, you don't reproduce. So by de facto, those of us who are here now came from ancestors who
00:26:42
Speaker
lived with the shortcuts, lived with the hack, lived with the virtual reality. So that's his point, that that's our construct, space-time. And so space-time is within consciousness rather than consciousness being within space-time, as materialists would tell you. So that being the case, Hoffman would say we shouldn't be surprised that we're not finding aliens in our construct, which is just an evolutionary kind of derivative or abstraction.
00:27:08
Speaker
But he believes that if we can hack outside of this construct, we will find a reality with infinite numbers of other intelligences. So yeah, absolutely that could happen. Not to mention, there's this notion called the Transcension Hypothesis, which says that, and this also explains, or is a potential answer for the Fermi Paradox.
00:27:30
Speaker
is that when a civilization gets to a certain point of sophistication, it actually just becomes post-biological and sort of exits space-time altogether, finds a way to do that. And so we're actually a relatively young civilization compared to that. And the reason we're not finding them, just like we don't find other civilizations using radio waves, because they've long since surpassed the need for that technology. So same sort of idea. Now, to your second question around the potential danger,
00:28:00
Speaker
I would say that the distinction that I would draw is that the methods you use, the intentionality you employ really matters for these kind of things. This will be daunting for some people and overwhelming to others, especially those who are not familiar with these kind of notions.
00:28:19
Speaker
But because I've been in various spiritual traditions before, I was really heavy into
Intentionality in Contact Attempts
00:28:24
Speaker
this stuff. And I've been to parts of the world where I've seen things happen that are supposedly not supposed to happen within a physicalist model. And it happened to happen in places where there was a bit of a looser consensus reality around certain things not happening. And that seems to actually change the likelihood that you could see certain things manifest.
00:28:42
Speaker
Which might also explain, by the way, why some people who've had an anomalous experience of some kind keep having them, because some aperture opens up, some switch flips on, and from then on, something in us knows, deep in our subconscious, that reality is more complex. And because we're open to it, we experience more.
00:29:03
Speaker
But because I had those experiences, I saw some good and some bad things happen, right? Some light stuff and some dark stuff. And I think that there are absolutely both entities that are benevolent and those that are nefarious and malevolent. And it's not necessarily like this sort of stereotypical like evil demon who forever has always been evil and is just looking to like steal your soul.
00:29:29
Speaker
It's more about an immaturity, a lack of sophistication, kind of a trickster thing sometimes that just wants to play with people. You think about the Batman movie, some people just want to see the world burn. I think there's some entities like that that just like to wreak havoc. I still think they fit within that consciousness construct ultimately, and they have to progress through that just like every other entity.
00:29:57
Speaker
But I would also say, though, importantly, when you engage in certain activities like CE5 or HICE, the whole point is to go in with a positive intentionality to have worked through some of your own issues that you're not coming in with a bunch of negative residual energy because there's a reflective nature to this phenomenon, so much of it, right? And because of that, it's almost like you are sending an email
00:30:27
Speaker
And without realizing, especially if you don't have a lot of self-awareness built in, then you might be populating that email with all sorts of like negative things. And then the person to the side is going to respond to that because they're like, oh, you're saying this? Well, I'm going to, you know what I mean? There's a reflective nature.
00:30:43
Speaker
And even though it's kind of a crude analogy, I'm saying that our energy does seem to prime these experiences somehow. So it's really important that you've done that preparatory work so that you are sending a signal, you're priming the package that you're sending across
00:30:58
Speaker
you know, interdimensionally or whatever, to say this is the kind of encounter that this is going to be. And I think that the data suggests that that works, that tends to work, that when you, again, not wishful thinking, but when you look at the data for HICE and CE5, even stuff that was done in South America well before Stephen Greer was doing it,
00:31:19
Speaker
the vast majority of the encounters end up being positive. That's just what the data says. So when some people might come out and say, well, you're just guessing, you don't know. And I'd say, well, I think there is data and you have to pay attention to it. Now, do some people have negative experiences? Yes.
00:31:36
Speaker
is going to skinwalker rants potentially different than going on a cv5 you know hang out with some people yes you know i think that that you need to make these distinctions recognize that there are there's a plethora and a spectrum of entities just like there is with human beings you know like
00:31:55
Speaker
We have little kids. We don't say, go to any house you want. Just walk in. It's fine. Everybody's safe. We don't say that, right? We have some preparation. We do some checking. We get to know people. I'm saying that the same applies here as well. That's amazing.
Introducing 'Liminal Frames' Segment
00:32:11
Speaker
I really appreciate your analogies and your breakdown of things because it does help it make sense to people like myself that are not quite as
00:32:19
Speaker
as aware of some of those talking points. And I think that's a great thing that you've done in your podcast on the point of convergence. But one thing that I have wanted to talk about is you sort of started a second show within the show, Liminal Frames. And I wanted, not so much wanted to know about the show, but more about your co-host Nathan, a good friend of mine as well. So tell me about Nathan. What was it that kind of drew you two together to do this second show?
00:32:47
Speaker
Right, well that one definitely feels like a synchronistic kind of orchestration, which by the way, I would say again, people who get involved in this often find that they start having this uncanny feeling that strings are being pulled. Some people see that as a negative thing, others as a positive. In my case, it's been a positive experience.
00:33:09
Speaker
where things happen that you get introduced to people, connections that just seem surprising based on chance. It just seems unlikely. So the first thing I would say is that Nathan and I just happen to live in the same town, right? Which is crazy when you think about UFO Twitter and here I am talking to you across the pond, right? And we have people all over the world. So to have the uncanny circumstance where we just happen to be in the same city is pretty amazing.
00:33:39
Speaker
And we were both deeply into the UFO phenomenon. It was only later that I realized, wait a second, this guy is nearby because he's in the Blue Ridge Mountains like I am. So he reached out to me originally and said, hey, love your show. I'm in the area too. Maybe we can get together for coffee sometime.
00:33:59
Speaker
And then at the time, kind of being introverted, I don't think I jumped actually at it. But then he invited me on to Calling All Beings. He and DJ invited me on to their show, Calling All Beings, right? So they did an interview with me and the nature of the questions that Nathan asked told me that he was thinking about some of the same things I was. And we even had a similar history in terms of biblical studies and he did a divinity degree. And so,
00:34:27
Speaker
We have been thinking about consciousness and spirituality prior to this, this UFO stuff. So after that, you know, again, putting two and two together, realizing, oh, yeah, this guy is the one that I seem to have stuff in common with. And we're in the same town. We got together for coffee and and then I started
00:34:47
Speaker
thinking there are some topics I'd like to bridge that maybe are not point of convergence material. With point of convergence, I try to do like a 30 to 40 minute kind of audio essay kind of thing, lecture on a certain element of the phenomenon. But there are larger topics that I want to discuss as well.
00:35:09
Speaker
And also there's something about what we're doing right now, like just on the fly conversational, that it's fun and it's always compelling how it goes in directions you couldn't have imagined beforehand. And the second you add sort of like the biblical passage where two or more are gathered, there's something about the energetic output when you have more than one person ends up being more than the sum of its parts kind of thing.
00:35:35
Speaker
So we got together and we said, hey, what do you think about doing a show around this more conversational nature? And then we can discuss all aspects of this and bring in some of our history with religious studies and whatnot as well, which plays into this because obviously one of the big questions is,
00:35:54
Speaker
were the very monotheistic religions of our history inspired by encounters with the same entities that we're encountering now and just calling them gray aliens or beings from Andromeda. So these are all compelling and related questions. And that's how that started. It's great. And I'm sure Nathan would probably agree on most of what you said. But just to be sure, should we ask him? What's up, guys?
00:36:23
Speaker
Because the devil. Here I am. It's an engineered synchronicity. Yeah, I had to do it. You know, I had to do it because you guys do you this, like I said, the liminal frames is something different from from the original podcast that Darren started. So, yeah, Nathan, you know, give us your point of view. You know, I mean, I guess it's the same as Darren's, but, you know, give us give us it anyway.
00:36:49
Speaker
Sure. There's a lot of commonality there. People ask me what it's like talking with Darren, and I say, well, we meet at a place, and we basically close it down. That's how we do it. We meet at a place, and we then later close it down, and they kick us out. So hours go by because our conversations are so easy, which is not to say that we agree on everything. We certainly don't. But things just flow. And it's nice to be in that.
00:37:16
Speaker
flow state with somebody that is into the same topic that you're in, as he pointed out, coincidentally, just in the same city. I mean, how many people are that fortunate to have someone they can meet in person and have a coffee or a beer and just kind of get into it, you know? So, you know, I consider myself very fortunate to have crossed paths with Darren and is certainly enriched
00:37:39
Speaker
you know, my understanding of what's going on with this. It's definitely raised new questions and opened up new avenues of inquiry for me. You know, something that I've been listening along to the show and something that came to my mind as you guys have been talking, and that's just this nature of the absurd. And you know, Darren and I, we talk about this sometimes, that things that are absurd
00:38:06
Speaker
you know, sort of shake you out of whatever routine you happen to be in. And our human history is sort of punctuated with absurd moments, which then lead and catalyze, you know, change that happens in the society, change that might happen in our technology. And so, you know, I think obviously this is speculation, but there's some element perhaps
00:38:30
Speaker
that this absurdity of the phenomena that it plays with our ability to understand, our ability to grow both with what we are learning and the way we are interacting and behaving with one another, it's kind of continually pushing us in interesting directions that maybe only become apparent in hindsight, not in that moment.
00:38:55
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, that's great, man. You mentioned the trickster element there, and obviously that features heavily when people talk about skinwalker ranch tricksters and hitchhiker effect and all those kinds of things. That's the subject I really wanted to jump on about right now. So Darren, if we go to you first, what's your views, thoughts, hypotheses or anything surrounding skinwalker ranch, but not only now, but historically as well?
Skinwalker Ranch Hypotheses
00:39:23
Speaker
Right, I mean, there are many hypotheses in terms of, you know, what it is, whether it's some sort of, some people see it as like kind of spiritual curse, right, and you have the whole notion of
00:39:35
Speaker
you know, one Indian tribe that kind of cursed the land because another one was coming in kind of thing. And to what degree is that? What's really going on? That's where the name Skinwalker comes from, right? This being that was part of their lore. You have other notions that what we really have is an ancient technology that was anciently seated, but is still there today, right? And there's this notion of maybe there's, they seem to, in some of their experiments, find things that are, you know, certain point up in the sky. So it's not this ranch itself, it's somewhere above.
00:40:05
Speaker
And there's been other evidence, speaking of that earlier question, Elena asked about magnetic anomalies. There's something below the Earth that seems anomalous there as well. So again, are those just signposts pointing to something else? Or are they the root cause that's worth pursuing either way? In terms of the hitchhiker effect, I would say that what's interesting is that, again, to me suggests that
00:40:31
Speaker
This is another element where space-time is irrelevant, that it's hacking the construct altogether. So I would say, personally, I've experienced the Hitchhiker Effect since my experience at Monroe, where I was around people who had a lot of experiences, right? People like Chris Bledsoe.
00:40:55
Speaker
I've also been to his house personally and had experiences there. And then since then I've had some of my own experiences. And people who know me have out of the blue got in touch with me and said, you're not gonna believe this, but I saw six UFOs up on the Blue Ridge Parkway three nights ago.
00:41:17
Speaker
And so when you think about it, you have a similar kind of equation there. You have me seemingly picking something up. You could use the analogy of like a viral kind of thing, right? Something, I catch something from someone that already was having amazing experiences with the phenomenon. And then somehow I also pass it off, but it's not passed off by like,
00:41:36
Speaker
like COVID, you walk in a supermarket and you get too close to someone who sneezes, it can actually just be the fact that you have some sort of consciousness connection, even if you haven't seen or talked to that person in weeks or months, which is fascinating and suggests again that the way that the traffic for these others, this intelligence is not space-time oriented at all. It's not spatial temporal at all, which again is a really intriguing data point
00:42:04
Speaker
that I think we should pursue in trying to figure out what this all means. And Nathan, I'll come to you in a second. But Darren, you mentioned there about Monroe and Chris Bledsoe. So if we could just continue with that and these experiences, could you expand on that a little bit about Monroe and the reason why you were with these people and these gatherings? And I'll just quickly say sorry before. Guys, I'm seeing your questions, and I'm noting them for later. But while we're just in this, you know,
00:42:33
Speaker
this flow we're just going to continue for now so I will get to them but sorry Darren yeah if you still remember the question if you could go yeah thank you yeah so uh speaking of you know synchronicity and the hitchhiker effect and I think it's all connected right those are not separate uh issues or somehow part of something again that's embedded in consciousness um but uh you know there were some people who had experiences with Chris Bled so personally
Consciousness Exploration at Monroe Institute
00:43:01
Speaker
and then begin to have some of their own experiences. And then said, again, they were changed by it, like I mentioned earlier, their consciousness would change their sense of, this is so dramatic and so life changing, perspective altering, that I feel like behoove to do something. I'm not supposed to just passively experience this, but I'm supposed to do something with this.
00:43:25
Speaker
a sense of calling or vocation dawns on a person. So this person actually began to have the notion of Monroe in their mind. This idea of drawing together a group of experiencers or what Joseph Brooks would call prime experiencers or prime contactees, people who have
00:43:44
Speaker
an unusually high number of experiences and really dramatic ones, often going back to childhood, which Chris Bledsoe would definitely fit that bill. A combination of those kind of people and researchers and even people from government military backgrounds who also dealt with some elements of the UFO phenomenon in their careers.
00:44:06
Speaker
trying to draw that all together as well as like people who specialize in sci phenomena that I mentioned earlier, knowing that that's connected as well. And preferably do it at a place where speaking of what I said earlier about sending the email and what are you priming it with?
00:44:22
Speaker
If you do it at a place where already it has this rich history of exploring consciousness, then that too primes the experience with something. People talk about going into holy sites that have been around for hundreds of thousands of years and feeling something. I think that's part of that. It's been invested into that area, and you can feel it somehow. And I think if we had the right scientific devices, we could probably measure it at some point.
00:44:50
Speaker
the same way that some people can see an aura around people. So he then looked at the Monroe Institute, thought this was the perfect place. They've been doing pioneering research on consciousness since the 60s and 70s. Let's try and do it there. That was a bit of a challenge because they don't usually host private events. And this was going to be a private event where we would design the schedule, but we wanted to do it there. Eventually, this person persevered and got the board to agree.
00:45:19
Speaker
So then we went there with this group of people that were kind of hand-picked to do sort of cutting-edge consciousness work, which involved HIAS as well, human initiated contact, but also exploring sci-phenomena, astral projection, and all the rest. Amazing. And again, you did mention sightings
Challenging Traditional UFO Assumptions
00:45:41
Speaker
both around that time and since visiting Chris Bledsoe, are you able to just expand on that a little bit? Because I think I've noticed a few comments, people are really interested in what you saw. Right. Yeah, I mean, one of the most common data points, and again, this is sometimes I have recognized this is frustrating for some of the nuts and bolts people who kind of want, you know, like black triangles or a classic sponsor or whatever, you know, or a tic-tac. But often these things manifest as what we call orbs, right?
00:46:12
Speaker
There's been some controversy recently, even around new fun, deciding whether or not they'll even investigate orbs. I think that's the wrong decision.
00:46:21
Speaker
arbitrarily saying orbs are one thing, hard metal craft or another misses the point. And I know people who have had experiences where they've seen it shape shift between the two, right? Where it goes from something that looks like a ball of light or it goes from nothing to materializing into a ball of light and then turning into a full on physical craft and then dematerializing again. So somehow again,
00:46:46
Speaker
our space time notions are insufficient at the very least. And so making these arbitrary decisions about what we'll investigate based on our space time assumptions is missing the point. But in terms of what I've seen, so
00:47:01
Speaker
At Monroe, I've talked about this in a couple other places, too. We saw a variety of things, which was really interesting to me because you might go in with a preconception about what you're going to see. It can be everything from a flash in the sky that just clearly doesn't fit any other prosaic description. It can be sometimes something that's following a certain trajectory down the sky, but it's flashing, boom, boom, boom, like that.
00:47:30
Speaker
And then you could have something that at first looks like a satellite in terms of it's about the right spies, going about the right speed, and it's tracking across the sky. But it'll either then stop and shoot straight up into space or dart left or right, or often what I've seen, I saw it at Monroe and I've seen it since then, it'll just disappear.
00:47:52
Speaker
It just goes away. Satellites don't do that, right? On a clear night when they're not going into a cloud bank, they don't just disappear. So again, there's certain, it's interesting because when you think about the intelligence behind this phenomenon, or at least this aspect of it that I've encountered, it seems to
00:48:11
Speaker
For me, anyway, I feel like it knows my assumptions and sometimes responds to my assumptions. So one example is I remember saying in an interview with James Iandoli for his Engaging the Phenomenon channel that you shouldn't necessarily expect pyrotechnics. It can be something quite subtle. And if you're not paying attention, if you're not diligent enough, and if you don't do it for long enough, you could easily miss it. But then when I was with Chris Bledsoe,
00:48:40
Speaker
just the two of us, I saw something that did look like a pyrotechnic in the sky. It looked like something lit up like a quarter of the sky, you know, just an orb that manifested and then flared up a quarter of the sky and then just disappeared, you know.
00:48:56
Speaker
And so that to me was almost like picking up a sense of humor like don't the second you try to categorize how this shows up, it might very well do the opposite of that so feels like there's a bit of a play with my consciousness going on there so that's an example. The most recent one I experienced was.
00:49:15
Speaker
this week. I drove up on the Blue Ridge Parkway, which is where Nathan and I live. And you can drive up to a place called Mount Pisgah, which is one of the highest points in the entire Eastern seaboard. Still not that high compared to the Rocky Mountains or something, but it's one of the highest points.
00:49:38
Speaker
parked my car and was looking at the night sky. Again, sort of just being aware of what might or might not show up. And at one point was just about ready to go home. I'd been there for a couple hours.
00:49:49
Speaker
And it had just used my binoculars actually and didn't say anything. And I was just about packing up to go home and I looked up one more time and something shot across only about a hundred feet up for me, something orb like shot across the sky really quick and then just dematerialized. So again, it felt like
00:50:10
Speaker
Even the way it was showing up was playing with me a little bit. And just when I thought I was going to go home empty handed, that's what happened, which isn't to say it always happens. There's plenty of times I go and look and nothing happens just to be clear. But that was the most recent one. And that too felt like it was somehow responding directly to my expectations.
00:50:29
Speaker
I find that really fascinating, and it actually is strange, almost in a slight synchronicity way, that for someone like me, as this nuts and bolts, and you mentioned triangles and tic-tacs and stuff, that's all I ever wanted to see. But it's taken till earlier this year when I did have my first sighting, and funnily enough, it was an orb. It was not what I was expecting. So it's crazy how these things work.
00:50:58
Speaker
It baffles me to be honest. Nathan, have you got anything you want to add in on that? I feel like I'm leaving you out, man. No, I'm just here to listen to you guys. So it's all good. All I would add is that those of us who've listened to Darren and I's show or listen to my show, I have not had an experience. And I think it's kind of frustrating. It's like I really want one. I'm trying to seek one in a way.
00:51:23
Speaker
But on the other hand, there's one way that I look at this now, and that's the interpersonal component to this. And for me at least, and everyone's going to be different, but taking the stories of those who I know and who I meet and who I interact with, taking them seriously, as Darren likes to point out, it begins to accumulate a body of evidence that in a way becomes an experience of my own.
00:51:52
Speaker
So it's a type of living vicariously. But what I like about this subject is it sort of redeems this human interaction. It doesn't dismiss another person's experiences. And I think in our Western sort of society, we've come to a place where we really like being dismissive of the strange things which we have not been able to put into a box. And what this does, it provides space for us to say, you know what? I want to hear you.
00:52:22
Speaker
I want to understand what you're saying. I want to get to the bottom of whatever this is. I'm going to treat you and I'm going to treat this seriously. It doesn't mean I have to believe it, but it does give me that space. And I think something emerges from that space that the two people share in that interaction.
00:52:43
Speaker
Yeah, that makes us so much sense as well. Really does. Just before we move on to the next question, I just want to give a quick shout out. Arun, thank you so much for the donation. I really do appreciate it. So that means a lot. And Lara as well. Thank you so much. It is a fantastic conversation. I'm having a wild, great time. I knew I would as well. So thank you guys for the donations. It really does mean so much. But
00:53:06
Speaker
You know, guys, I always say, if you want to ask questions, you do not have to pay. You just pop them in capital letters. And I can tell you, I've got a few. So what we'll do is we'll jump onto it to one of you guys' questions. So this one is kind of makes sense to what we're talking about. Sophie asks, she's interested to know if there is a connection in the color of an orb or when in the color an orb presents itself, sorry, and its intention. I have witnessed white, gold and blue orbs. It's a good question.
00:53:35
Speaker
It is, and it's certainly a plausible possibility in my mind, and not necessarily in a fixed way, right? Like I think, again, what I see is evidence that however they manifest spatially, temporally, is often meant to communicate something, but it can be crafted on the fly. So it's possible that what, you know, blue might mean something to someone, and so it might appear as a blue orb.
00:54:01
Speaker
you know, to one person because it has a special significance for them. Now, is it possible on top of that that there's some significance to the colors in general? That's possible. I haven't covered that a lot in my own research. I do know that in talking to people like Chris Bledsoe,
00:54:18
Speaker
who experience these things all the time. They will often like change color as they're coming through our atmosphere and they might start white and then go gold or vice versa kind of thing, which might have to do with like, you know, we think about red shifting and how we can determine whether something's moving away in the universe or coming closer, things like that. Like it's some, the color actually is an indication of what's going on physically with it as well. It's fascinating question, definitely possible.
00:54:44
Speaker
Again, you mentioned Redshift there, without spoiling too much, because obviously my sighting happened in Colombia and we're halfway through airing the series that we filmed out there, but what the hell? So we saw an orb and it showed what we think was bits of blue shift, bits of red shift at certain points.
00:55:05
Speaker
I don't know. I'm not an analyst on videos and stuff. So when the final episode is aired, we're going to release all the footage we took of this phenomenon so people can examine it and help us, basically. But it just resonated with me. One thing that I did want to get into with this talk of orbs and with Nathan here as well and his knowledge on the religious aspects of stuff as well is apparitions, fatima, things like that.
Historical Apparitions and Their Connections
00:55:31
Speaker
Where does that fit in?
00:55:35
Speaker
Yeah, where does it fit in, I suppose? Who wants to take that first, anybody? That's a lot, Nathan, you go ahead. Sure. No, I mean, it's, you know, certainly there's a lot of that within the Western Christian religious tradition of speaking with the dead or angelic visitation. Of course, you have possession as well, which kind of fits into some of this.
00:56:04
Speaker
So I think we, to me, this is why this phenomenon is so powerful because it really does have tendrils in all of these different types of experiences. And to go back to things that Darren said at the top of the show when he started talking about consciousness and the way that we mediate reality, apparitions, they're a part of that fabric.
00:56:34
Speaker
just because we can understand them through sort of the way we understand me having a chat with you in person does not mean that they don't exist, that they don't have any kind of realness or real quality to them. And I find it interesting too that these moments that are recorded, these apparitional moments, they do often spark some kind of behavioral shift within the individual. And oftentimes those shifts end up creating
00:57:03
Speaker
religious behavior, you know, so I, you know, sometimes I wonder, and we've talked about this, Darren, you know, if you want to expound on it, but to what extent is that intentional, you know, to where these sort of apparitions are intending us to kind of change our behavior to do XYZ, or if we're misinterpreting the experience and we're trying to recreate it, and we recreate it by creating things that we call rituals.
00:57:29
Speaker
then become religious behavior. So I wonder if it's sort of a lost in translation thing happening there. Interesting. Darren, what's your take on that? Yeah, I would say one of the most fascinating parts of Chris Bledsoe's case is his experience with the lady figure. And I can tell you that people in high places, both governmentally and in terms of the Vatican, there are definitely key figures there that see it as the same
00:58:00
Speaker
phenomenon as what happened at Fatima and Lourdes and other places where what has been considered the Virgin Mary manifested. And of course, when you think about what people actually saw, there's no conclusive evidence suggesting it's the Virgin Mary. That is sort of an after-the-fact interpretation, fitting a round peg into a square hole kind of thing. There's some superficial similarities.
00:58:25
Speaker
but a lot of differences. And as Jacques Belay pointed out, there were sort of classical, ufological kind of elements, like even a couple of years before her manifestation, her, you know, whatever that is. So you have one group really, you know, one of the things that Nathan and I talk about about Unliminal Frames is sociological framing. So from a Catholic point of view,
00:58:49
Speaker
You have certain assumptions about reality. So you see a female figure with like divine characteristics showing up. You're going to check that box right on the four point possibility. That's that's the Virgin Mary, right? It's not Jesus. It's not Lucifer. You know, it's not Francis of Assisi.
00:59:07
Speaker
But if you're coming from a ufological point of view and you see what looks like solid craft and even like being seeming to crawl out on a ladder from a craft, things like that, that doesn't fit with like a typical notion of how angels tend to show up, right? It sounds more like alien beings, right? And technology, right? And yet what I'm saying is that
00:59:29
Speaker
All those elements are associated with the very same occurrence. Like in Fatima, you have all those things going on. And in people like Chris's case, you have all of these things going on. Everything from stuff that manifests that looks like a tic-tac to an angelic lady figure appearing.
00:59:50
Speaker
But we can't really talk about any of this without talking about my favorite talking point that I always like to bring up is that the overarching, one of the biggest questions is, is this ultimately one phenomenon that's manifesting in many ways? Or is it that we're realizing reality is such that
01:00:09
Speaker
many different entities, potentially from completely different origin sources are actually interacting with us. And part of the confusion is that we try to draw from one narrative when there's actually numerous narratives going on simultaneously. I was talking to a friend from Europe today and earlier, and he and I were talking about how
01:00:32
Speaker
It's like if we discover that you have a Wi-Fi connection and you're like, oh, it's crazy. I have this computer. It turns out it has a Wi-Fi connection. And so Vinny dropped a folder from the UK. How did it have? That's amazing, right?
01:00:46
Speaker
It's weird, I've got 10 folders, so they must all be from Vinny. Turns out Nathan, in the Blue Ridge Mountains here, also dropped one in. My point being, the second you discover that a Wi-Fi connection is something plausibly exists, where things outside of your construct can drop things into your construct,
01:01:06
Speaker
then to me it seems like the logical assumption to go with is that numerous entities might be able to access that wi-fi connection just like the three of us are talking from three different locations and until we have compelling evidence to suggest it's all Vinnie doing it from the UK to assume actually there's probably many actors I think that's
01:01:27
Speaker
overwhelming to people because it's already such a huge shift to go, wait a second, you're saying our reality has a Wi-Fi connection? That other beings from other locales can drop stuff in and interact? Yes. And the likelihood is that there's that connection can be accessed from numerous places by numerous different kinds of intelligences. So that's all I would add is that, you know,
01:01:53
Speaker
The encounters I've had are all positive, right? Now that's partly because I do practice spiritual hygiene. I go in with a certain expectation. Again, I'm trying to prime the experience. I'm trying to be self-aware about the way that I might get a reflective aspect coming back at me. What is that going to be populated with when I send that package across? But, you know, some people do have negative interactions and it would be disingenuous to pretend those don't exist or that they're all just military psyops or something. But, you know,
01:02:22
Speaker
That is the one of the biggest questions is like how many are involved? Where are they coming from? And I would just say let's not jump to conclusions prematurely Yeah, and if I could just add really quickly it makes me want to change the Wi-Fi password Just so that I don't have that happening, you know You gotta have good network security guys. That's the takeaway here, but I just want to say thank you both for the time I'm gonna jet it's just a pleasure Listening and talking with both of you and and hide all the listeners out there as well
01:02:53
Speaker
I keep up the great chat and I know I'll see you both around. All right. Definitely. Thank you guys. Bye bye. Oh man. I hope you don't mind that I did that man. I just could not resist it. No, that was a fun surprise.
01:03:11
Speaker
Very cool. Yeah, good, good. Now I've just got a couple of more questions from the audience here, which are fantastic. Moon raises an interesting one here. Is the lady similar to the lady seen with psychedelics?
01:03:27
Speaker
That is a fascinating question for a couple of different reasons. One being that, again, when we talk about these different contact modalities, CE5 or HICE is one, right? Astral projection is another. Psychedelic journeys are another, right? And I've had some experience of those myself and have encountered what often feels like a different kind of intelligence.
01:03:51
Speaker
Although I will add, I know this will sound even more complex to people, but I would say one of the tricky and prickly parts of this entire conversation is that I think we ourselves ultimately are multidimensional in nature. And so sometimes that makes it complex knowing how are we involved and in what way are we involved. And one thing I could have mentioned earlier was that in terms of the consciousness piece,
01:04:18
Speaker
one thing that people often mention about having an interaction with these others, right? One of the ongoing questions is, is this happening in physical reality, right? Again, that makes all sorts of assumptions about what counts as real and what doesn't, right? But often people report it's seeming to happen almost in an alternate reality or ultimate domain, different modality, or an altered state of consciousness, which again brings up what happens with psychedelics, right?
01:04:49
Speaker
even what we consider consensus reality actually is just one of many modalities that are kind of like a mind space, a dreamscape, if you will, that ultimately this is not fundamentally different than what I experienced in a dream last night, right? Or that you are with psychedelics. And I think what psychedelics might be doing is actually allowing us to hack outside of our usual space-time construct because
01:05:10
Speaker
I think that ultimately
01:05:17
Speaker
You're kind of hacking outside of what evolution has served up in your normal state of consciousness to get through the world. So I think actually we're experiencing more of reality sometimes when we're in these altered state of consciousness. You know when one of the really fascinating data points is that
01:05:34
Speaker
According to a physicalist model, if everything is ultimately located in your brain, right, like in your skull and nowhere else, then if people are having these mind blowing experiences, like mind expanding, consciousness expanding, like just these stellar experiences on psychedelics, we should see the brain being lit up, right? We should be able to track that with our, you know, our sensor systems and whatnot. What we actually see is the brain looks incredibly dormant, like not much is going on at all,
01:06:03
Speaker
which immediately contradicts the physicalist expectations because you're supposed to see a correlation there if
01:06:11
Speaker
brain matter causes conscious experience, then if you're having a mind-blowing conscious experience, you should see it lit up in the brain matter. And we're not seeing that, we're seeing the opposite, which I think suggests we're actually hacking outside of the sort of evolutionary space-time construct and experiencing more of reality. And it's because we've actually taken our usual operating system, if you will, offline. That's why it looks like nothing's going on with the brain, but our non-local consciousness
01:06:39
Speaker
You can call it that is actually experiencing broader reality now in terms of whether or not that's the same lady could be Or but even then I would say that even people who have experienced The lady would tell you that or some of them anyway would say that when they really really feel into it They don't feel like that's her true appearance.
Archetypes in Phenomenal Experiences
01:06:59
Speaker
They feel like that's a manifestation of
01:07:02
Speaker
meant to communicate something to us and meant to make us feel a sense of like a mothering, nurturing, kind of calming. It's going to have an effect on us based on our history, you know, not just in terms of we had mothers that hopefully were caring and nurturing, but this goes back to the feminine archetype going back in our history, right? So they have enough understanding of us that when they want to communicate,
01:07:27
Speaker
a certain kind of message, they show up in a certain way so as to immediately prime the experience with that kind of preamble or that subject header that says, I'm coming as a mother figure, that's going to tell you things, even if you're not consciously aware that it's telling you things. So it could be the same, but I would just say that even there, I think that even people who've experienced her have told me that
01:07:51
Speaker
That's what they experienced because that was meant to communicate. That's not the ultimate form. And that some of these beings may not have form. The form itself may be part of our space-time construct. And yet they take a form just like when I send an email, it shows up in a certain way in your desktop. Ultimately, those are zeros and ones and transistors and binary code. But we use the familiar icon of an email showing up.
01:08:18
Speaker
so that we can work with it. And that's kind of what I think some of these others are doing when they interact with us. Amazing. I love how you break these things down because it does break it down to a level where people like myself can understand it. So I really do appreciate that. A couple more questions before we finish. This is a really interesting one from Andrew Hall. Hi, Vinny and Darren enjoying the conversation. How important is language in regards to consciousness?
01:08:49
Speaker
That's a great question. I would say a couple of things on that. One is that I think part of our challenge, and even Donald Hoffman's talked about this, when we try to discuss reality, we have certain expectations or assumptions built into our language, like Vinnie called Darren. So we have a subject, object, kind of a relationship. And our entire language is structured with those assumptions about reality built in.
01:09:18
Speaker
Um, so that sometimes makes it difficult to talk about things that don't seem to follow those constructs or those assumptions. Um, and, and one of the interesting things with language, and I studied this, uh, some of my favorite courses were neuro linguistics because talks about how
01:09:35
Speaker
the way you think determines how you structure a language, and then the way your language is structured also therefore determines how you think. And so you kind of have this feedback loop that is self-enhancing kind of thing. I would say that, first of all, and that's part of, I think, our challenge is that part of the reason why debunkers are so convinced this can't be real is because it just doesn't play well with our rules, right?
01:09:58
Speaker
And if you are convinced that your rules are absolute, then you assume people are either being frauds or they're misunderstanding or whatever, right? But what I think it's saying, and Nathan talked about this too, like how over time the body of data becomes so overwhelming. You have so much outlier data that any scientist worth his weight in credibility
01:10:25
Speaker
recognizes that if you have enough outline data and it continues to build over time, that's telling you something about your model is wrong. It's one thing to have a couple of things here and there that don't fit, like loose threads. But when you have this mounting evidence, you can't just keep saying, I'm going to put that in the closet, close the door, and pretend it doesn't exist. If you're a scientist driven by curiosity, which is the whole point of science, then that's telling you something.
01:10:52
Speaker
The last thing I would say, too, in terms of language, what's fascinating with experiencer accounts, of course, is that so much of the communication is telepathic in nature.
01:11:04
Speaker
But people will often have to think back on it and go, how did I actually hear that? Was it audible or was it in my brain? But they'll often hear it in their native language, right? And of course, if these people, whether they're Palladians or interdimensional or celestial or whatever their origin is, clearly, they probably didn't grow up speaking English like you and I, right? And yet there's this substrate of consciousness
01:11:28
Speaker
that allows for communication that gets translated on the fly kind of thing. And the same way that you might have, again, computer code, you might send it in one format and it gets translated and someone receives it in another. So yeah, it's fascinating. I think that the telepathic part is really interesting. We should pay attention. And I would just add that
01:11:53
Speaker
It's not just aliens that are telepathic. Again, there's all sorts of evidence with Dean Raden's work and whatnot that we too have this capacity. So again, I think this is saying something fundamental about consciousness and about us as conscious agents. Yeah, fantastic. Again, just amazing how you make things that seem so complex.
01:12:15
Speaker
just bring them down to a level where it's understandable. It's fascinating and again it's something like I think what I appreciate about you and your podcast and everything is that you
01:12:24
Speaker
talk so much about information and data and everything but you don't say this is definitive, it's possibilities and it's a very hard thing to do because people pick up on beliefs very very quickly and that's what I really love about what you do.
Future Projects and Exploration Plans
01:12:39
Speaker
Now I guess my final question is and it's one I ask a lot of people is what's next? What's next for Darren? What's next for axo-academic? Good question, well I think
01:12:52
Speaker
I'm working on a couple books right now that I'm excited about and that's partly why I've put my podcast on or both podcasts on hold for the rest of the summer so I can focus fully on those. I think those are really interesting. One will be out before the other. The second one will probably be out later next year, but the first one will be sometime this year and I think people are going to really find it compelling.
01:13:15
Speaker
Um, it touches a lot of the stuff we've talked about today, um, specifically, but I'm not going to say more than that for now. Um, and you know, and I, I, I continue to want to do field research and by field research, I mean, I don't want to just read accounts or other people have, but I want to actively, uh, you know, to steal James phrase, engage the phenomenon, you know, I want, um,
01:13:40
Speaker
Again, with the right protocols in place, with the right intentionality, having done the right spiritual hygiene, I want to use various means to continue to reach out and try to make contact. And it feels very much two-way, just so that's clear. Like, I feel like I've even experienced what you might call downloads since Monroe, and that's kind of been continuing.
01:14:01
Speaker
So I want to continue to pursue that, see where that goes, join together with various people in, in some of these field experiments, you know, because again, I think there's, there's real power when you gather with people and you have a shared intentionality. So I want to continue to do that and just keep pursuing this most fascinating question, which should be the headline of every newspaper in the world. And maybe it's not yet, but maybe one day it will be. Amazing.
01:14:26
Speaker
I for one can say that I'm really excited to see what happens next to read the books and for the return of the podcast. So yeah, very exciting stuff. And finally, I guess I just got to say thank you so much, man. This has been seriously, and I'm not just saying this has been one of the best conversations I've had in a long time. So I cannot thank you enough, man.
01:14:46
Speaker
Vinnie, I appreciate that. It has been great meeting you in person and let's do it again in the future. Absolutely, man. I'd love to have you back on and maybe after the books have come out and we've got some more things to talk about. I mean, I'm sure we could talk about anything to be honest.
01:15:01
Speaker
Just want to say a big shout out to everybody in the live chat for having such a great conversation, asking such fantastic questions. I'm sorry if I miss some of them. It is sometimes a little bit difficult. I have got some great moderators here who do their best as well. So thank you guys as well. I'm going to be back midweek with Katie Howland to discuss the NDAA, the IAA, and a lot of government-related topics. For now, guys, thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your Saturday. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. And I will see you soon. Take care.
01:15:31
Speaker
Goodbye.