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282- Vitamin B12 deficiency making the headlines...
66 Plays10 hours ago
Well...sort of. The fact is that many of the headlines surrounding Georgina Owen's untimely death are focussing on her veganism...closely linked to her B12 deficiency. But what should we make of this? Is this a necessary health warning? Stigmatisation? Or something else.
This week Shane & Anthony discuss this news story as well as several others amongs the animal rights & vegan headlines from the last seven days.
Like what we do? Want to help it sound even better? Join our KoFi gang here: https://ko-fi.com/ENOUGHOFTHEFALAFEL
Thanks to Neil, Shane & Alex for their continued Ko-Fi support!
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.cambsnews.co.uk/cambridge-national-animal-rights-day-2026-animal-advocates-gather/
https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/animal-rights-campaigners-urge-pope-to-condemn-bullfighting-during-spain-visit/
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/vegan-foods-to-get-official-fssai-logo-from-july-2027/articleshow/131499808.cms
https://nation.cymru/news/animal-rights-protesters-storm-cardiff-tui-store-over-support-for-orca-prisons/
https://www.greenpeace.org/international/story/82929/the-2-5-billion-secret-what-the-worlds-largest-meat-company-is-hiding-in-nigeria/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62rpn2377po
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jun/05/global-meat-supply-chicken-pork-fao-report
https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2026-06-04/father-of-woman-whose-vegan-diet-made-her-delusional-wants-meaningful-change
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/various/migros-advertising-animal-rights-activists-lodge-a-complaint/91545603
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Ant & Shane
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Transcript
Introduction & Show Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, it's that time of the week. Yes, it's vegan and animal rights news time. We're here, we're a left of the falafel, we're Anthony, we're Shane, and we are ready to talk the news, but that is enough of the falafel. It is time to start vegan week.
00:00:17
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Take your flour-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida.
00:00:29
Speaker
Should I call the medium and say, hi, sorry. True education. younger generation are getting know how brutal these practices are. That leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems with things.
00:00:41
Speaker
What is this? kind of movie is this? It's comedy gold. Any form of social interaction.
00:00:50
Speaker
As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns, you'll be all right. Does veganism give superpowers?
00:00:59
Speaker
I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hey everyone, this is Shane. Welcome to the show and thank you so much for being here. Indeed, indeed. Hi everyone. ah This is your first show. Welcome. Goodness me. We're delighted to have you along on episode 280 something. This is the show where we talk about the last seven days or so's animal rights and vegan news. If you want to go back and listen to previous week's roundup of the news, we've been doing this for about three years. So you can do that in any of the shows that have got a yellow background and pink text. They're the ones all about the news. And remember that you can read the original news reports for all the stories we cover in the show this week.
00:01:43
Speaker
Just check the show notes in your podcast player and follow the links. But that's enough of
Animal Rights Activism Worldwide
00:01:48
Speaker
the falafel. Let's hear what's been going on this week. Okay, yes indeed. So we're going start off with four real quick ones. We won't go into any depth at all, but we're just going mention stuff that's been going on before we get to the coconut meaty stories of the week. First one comes from CAMBS News, that's served from East Anglia towards Kate's neck of the woods, where animal advocates, campaigners and members of the public gathered in Cambridge to city centre to mark National Animal Rights Day. it says National Animal Rights Day 16. I'm assuming that's the 16th time it's happened. This was reported on the 8th of June and they've been joining thousands of participants at events taking place around the world to commemorate animals who've lost their lives and celebrate the growing animal rights movement. So hooray for anyone anywhere in the world that's been doing anything like that.
00:02:42
Speaker
There's been other activism going on and demonstrations. This next story comes to us from thetablet.co.uk reporting that animal rights campaigners are urging the Pope to condemn bullfighting during his Spain visit. And people for the ethical treatment of animals are behind this as well. Very striking picture of ah an angel with a sign written in Spanish with Lots of dead people around them, not not literally dead. They're pretending just to make the point. There's some great news from India reported by the Times of India.
Vegan Food Regulations & Protests
00:03:21
Speaker
Vegan foods to get official FSSAI logo from next July, July 2027. That's the Food Safety and Standards Authority of India. So there's going to be a standardised vegan logo that will be mandatory
00:03:37
Speaker
on all approved vegan food packages from the 1st of July next year. That's surely only going to be a good thing. And a final quick story from us. It's another protest. It's outside TUI. This time TUI is a holiday agency based here in the UK. I'm not sure whether they stretch outside. do you have TUI in the States, Shane? No. Is that the one that like is said they were going to stop doing dolphin attractions and stuff? Yeah, I've heard of you guys talk about it.
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. They're saying they're going to do a lot and um not always delivering. Animal rights protesters have, quote, stormed the Cardiff Toohey store, although the picture here is just of three people in dinosaur outfits outside the store. and This is over their support for, quote, unquote, orca prisons.
Corporate Environmental Impact
00:04:29
Speaker
So obviously lots of news in the last year or so with laws and best practices kind of shifting away from holiday agencies selling things like tickets to SeaWorld or elephant rides and things like that. So well in for those guys protesting that.
00:04:50
Speaker
Let's start getting into some stories that we're going to have a bit more of a discussion about. Shane, we've we've seen this first story about a huge, huge, huge, huge slaughterhouse in Africa. We've seen it reported in several places.
00:05:06
Speaker
The original story here comes from Greenpeace. Do you want to give us, give listeners a bit of a heads up of the the main details here? So Greenpeace is covering a story about JBS, which is the world's largest meat company, and they call it the biggest climate threat you have never heard of, though I think most of us have heard of JBS. But they do give us some information.
00:05:28
Speaker
idea of the scale of JBS because they talk about how it has the capacity to slaughter 76,000 cows, 14 million chickens, 147,000 pigs, and 23,500 lambs every day.
00:05:43
Speaker
And then it says that the methane emissions are estimated to exceed the combined livestock emissions of France, Germany, Canada, and New Zealand. So they are moving into Nigeria. They are going to be building six massive meat processing plants, which are going to take up 1.2 million hectares of land and And the concern that Greenpeace seems to have is that JBS will not disclose significant information about its plans.
00:06:15
Speaker
The agreement is signed with Nigeria's government is secret. And whatever assessments they've done for the environment and human rights impact are also secret. And Greenpeace is calling this a threat to food sovereignty, human dignity, and local livelihoods.
00:06:34
Speaker
And I didn't really see a whole lot of concern in here about the actual animals. Anthony, did you see anything in there? No, it's it's it's one of those where there are loud concerns about lots of other things. Obviously, that can indirectly help animals. I mean, this is epitomized by the fact that one of the arguments that is being said against this huge slaughterhouse and and where it's being put is the fact that this is a region where traditional pastoralism supports over 20 million people. Now, I had to look that up, like I'm sure several listeners, I wasn't aware what pastoralism is,
00:07:14
Speaker
Basically, it's a form of animal agriculture where you are trudging across large areas with your herd. And and that's the way it works. So, I mean, to say, oh this is going to threat people's pastoralism and and and that's supporting 20 million people as it is.
00:07:32
Speaker
I mean, you one could argue that... there is still an increased net suffering if you've got a great big whopping slaughterhouse that's killing all those animals per day that you mentioned there, Shane. I mean, that's that's going to exceed a million animals a week, I would have thought, just from some back of a fag packet maths there. um So yes, Greenpeace are not coming at this from a vegan or animal rights lens. They're not a vegan or animal rights organisation, but it it does show, doesn't it, how...
Global Meat Consumption Concerns
00:08:04
Speaker
easy it is in this world that we have to, for for for an industry that can only exist through secrecy, it propagates secrecy, it it can only exist with secrecy, finding corners of the world where folk maybe are in less of a position to put up resistance or can't offer the same capitalist resistance that that that is offered in other parts of the world. how there's echoes of of um we hear stories in the UK about the UK government selling our rubbish to other countries. So we've ran out of space for the landfill or what have you. Well, we'll we'll just send it to another country in a developing world. It it smacks a little bit of that. It sort of reminds me of what Exxon and Shell, who were mentioned, but other oil companies have done, is that they all kind of moved into Africa and then took advantage of governments needing money there and people there and now have, you know, are in court over lots of different environmental atrocities that have happened there, basically destruction of the environment. And um I think JBS has kind of taken a page from that. They're saying, oh, you know, you're starting to get pushback in these Western countries for, you know, and undercover investigations of of ah factory farms and so on. Let's just move it over to Africa where they're not as equipped for that. They haven't built up the ah animal rights movement as much as as in other places.
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, to to give Greenpeace credit, they are they do talk a good game. If you continue reading through the article, like it's it's all the calls to action without a specific call to action. So that that they say, you know it doesn't matter where in the world you're reading this story, where you're hearing about it, big agriculture,
00:10:02
Speaker
is predicated on just a few huge companies getting their way. So we all need to stand up to it you know Here are the things we need to do, but they're all quite vague. They're saying, pulling the climate emergency brake, setting a precedent for for accountability.
00:10:18
Speaker
global solidarity, which are lovely phrases and perhaps somewhere else they specifically say what what should be done. I mean, the the quick and easy answer is is is stop eating meat. and but And perhaps they're not saying that because that could alienate their subscribers, you know, their members. I mean, they they I ah will say they do very much say meat and dairy are real problems. So without specifically saying stop eating them.
00:10:48
Speaker
It's just that they just need that one more little step. They're so close. you know Basically, yes, they want transparency from JBS. They're not going to get it. um And I don't think that JBS cares if people in France or the UK send emails to them about this. um It's about money. And in the end, JBS is probably offering a whole lot of money. And i mean, you can't, you know, I don't think you can fight about against that. Unless but less people in Nigeria want to fight against it.
00:11:21
Speaker
I hope they do. Well, and you know, I'm just thinking over the last 12 months or so, we we have reported news of, you know, organizations like Pro-Veg and animal rights organizations. Like they they do exist in Africa and and other, you know, developing parts of the world. And, and you know, there is an animal rights and a vegan movement there and a, you know, a meat reduction movement there. So it's...
00:11:46
Speaker
you know there are There are signs of hope. I think, would would it be fair to say, Shane, that like we what we can see sometimes in... If I if i use words like developing world and and you know the West or whatever, forgive me, i know I know there's more enlightened phrases to use, but I think we see a lot of in, say, just take the UK and the US s where...
00:12:10
Speaker
where Shane and I are recording from. We've had sort of things like meat and prosperity and things like that. and And people are starting to see behind that. And then there are other parts of the world where that's not traditionally been part of the lifestyle, you know huge material prosperity, being able to eat whatever you want. And it's quite difficult to say to cultures that have not had that, that are now starting to have the opportunity to to have material things, to to have cheap meat, to say, well, actually, we've become more enlightened now and we shouldn't have those things anymore. So you can't have them. Right. um
00:12:51
Speaker
It's tricky, isn't it? and And we're talking about living sentient beings. So we we can't stop the message, but I i understand why there's pushback. And I i think it's it's why it's great to see people in those countries themselves advocating because it's yes that that's much more effective than... than you know, listening to a white person thousands of miles away saying, well, of course I know much better than you when historically we've oppressed such cultures. ah Anyway, we're we're getting going slightly off topic, but I think it is all related, isn't it? Yeah, no, I agree. It needs to come from from Nigeria. And i know they care as much about their environment and and their lands as as as everybody else. So I hope that they see this as a bad thing. and They're smarter than we were.
00:13:38
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, the the the striking image in this article, if you follow the link in the show notes, listeners, there the first picture that you get of this cattle ranching and in a deforested area, goodness me, it's no one wants that. No one wants that in any community that they care about. So um yes, all power to everyone resisting in whatever way we can. Our next story comes from the BBC.
00:14:06
Speaker
It's reporting on something that happened in Scotland a little while ago. It's one of those where, you know, it's it's been a legal thing that's been rumbling along, but it's not just a legal thing. The upshot that we're particularly interested in here and is that this farm in Fife, which is part of Scotland, um They have decided to end the lives of 271 cattle after an inspection by the Scottish government found that animals were, quote, unidentifiable and untraceable. So just to give some context for that, owners are legally required to report births and movements of cattle using a system called Scott EID.
00:14:51
Speaker
um And the Scottish government said that these regulations had not been met by Falkland Estate, which meant that the animals cannot enter the food chain. Obviously, their lives would have been ended at some point when it was profitable to do so. that The quote goes on to say the business had taken the difficult decision to slaughter the animals.
00:15:13
Speaker
Is it fair to say, Shane, that ah the main difficulty that the farm will have had making this decision was the fact that these animals could have been worth up to half a million pounds? Yeah, that that's what the BBC seemed to focus on about how sad it was that this farmer was going to lose his income and then how inconvenient it was for the government to have to go there to oversee the slaughter to make sure that the animals were actually slaughtered, I suppose.
00:15:41
Speaker
I felt like a case i was kind of at the opening of this article, I was thinking, well, why can't they just put these animals in a sanctuary? Surely a sanctuary might take them. But apparently the laws are very strict that these animals cannot be moved or transferred anywhere. So that's not even an option. It's a real it's a real indicator of just what commodities these animals are. Like they are, in in effect, the fact that they're living and breathing is just incidental, isn't it? They're products. They need to be traceable. that and And anything...
00:16:19
Speaker
that goes outside of that, if if the paperwork is not in place, like you say, they can't even go to a place of sanctuary, the the law of the land. And I don't think the law of the land is unusually strict in Scotland compared to and other countries. I don't read this and think, blimmin' heck, Scotland seems like a weird place. I am sure that there would be many, many countries across the world where this would be the case, where, oh, the paperwork's Not right. Well, they can't move. Then you can't sell them. You can't eat them. You can't do anything other than and their lives. I mean, it's sad that their lives are going to be ended no matter what, but it just seems like absolutely no good reason. There's a paperwork mix up and it just shows how a shockingly little these animals' lives matter.
Scottish Cattle Culling Debate
00:17:09
Speaker
I mean, do you think this this paperwork has to do with diseases that they may carry? i mean, like I'm thinking of like mad cow disease or hand, foot and mouth or something like that. Is it to prevent the spread of of diseases like that? Well, I mean, they they say a Scottish government spokesperson has said that it's that these regulations need to be adhered with for disease prevention, control, eradication and the protection of public health.
00:17:38
Speaker
I mean, it shouldn't that be a sign that this is maybe a risky way of producing food? I mean, I don't know that that chickpeas need quite such close scrutiny.
00:17:50
Speaker
No, they don't. i i I think the best way to protect people's health is not to eat these animals or any growth or raise these animals for food. Well, and, you know, obviously, you know, the two of us are not people that work in animal agriculture. We're not people that work with animals day to day. So, you know, we're approaching this from a lay perspective. There could be um elements and and factors here that we don't understand. But I'm just thinking as well of of wild animals. You don't need to document every wild mammal that is born or moved.
00:18:26
Speaker
Even in Scotland, you know, like let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say, well, this is this is the only country in the world where this happens. They're not tracking wild mammal births and movements, are they? So it's it's the fact that they're intensively farmed. And intended for consumption, for human consumption.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So it's all just, it it just feels like you would treat, I don't know, isotopes of uranium in this way. Like, oh my God, oh we need to we need to be careful that the radioactive material is is is treated carefully. And i'm I'm thinking of Homer Simpson, you know, things like that. Like, these are just just animals. Like,
00:19:09
Speaker
it This surely is an indication that we're we're doing something unnatural with them. Although, of course, animal ag would say, no, no, no, this is natural. This is normal. As would many people that eat it, I'm sure. But really sad story.
00:19:22
Speaker
It is sad. And i didn't I didn't like how the BBC didn't, how they presented it and didn't mention at all about how awful this was that these cows were going to die for basically no reason.
00:19:35
Speaker
m Well, they did say it was sad, but I feel like it was sad because of the loss of income and that the farmer was negligent. Yeah. And actually, we've had a look at this on Facebook, because it's been reported in in various Facebook communities. And many of the comments were talking about the waste. Because they were sad that they weren't going to be able to eat these cows. Like, what a waste. We could have eaten them. But like, again, like, it's in interesting that somebody that sees, as most people do, somebody that sees
00:20:07
Speaker
the consumption of animal flesh as normal. They would see an animal dying normally, not as a waste of a life. Yeah. Because it's giving us nutrition and sustenance, even though it's unnecessary, even though they know that people survive without eating flesh.
Poultry and Pork Consumption Rise
00:20:28
Speaker
Because the prevailing view of animals is that animals are here for us. And so...
00:20:33
Speaker
What is an animal needs to have serve needs to do a service for humans. If the animal needs to entertain us, it needs to feed us, it needs to clothe us, it needs to comfort us. Otherwise, what's the point of the animal?
00:20:46
Speaker
You know, I think that's what most people think. Yeah. Well, there's a bit of a link from this story to our next one that's reported in The Guardian. I'm going to start off with the good news, which is the fact that beef since 1961, or rather between and And the UK, at least. Oh, no. is this Is this global, actually? No, it's globally. Globally has not increased. Consumption of beef has not increased from 1961 to 2022, which I see as a really good bit of news. I mean, that is per person.
00:21:26
Speaker
So the consumption will have gone up because the population has gone up. But that's the good news. There's there's not so good news as well, though, isn't there? Yeah, the bad news. um Did you say this was reported in The Guardian? Yeah.
00:21:38
Speaker
Yeah. um So this is a UN report, and it found that the average person now eats six times more chicken than in 1961. and they eat twice as much pork. um And this is from data that the UN is reporting.
00:21:53
Speaker
And so they're basically, the global meat supply has risen fourfold in and the last 60 years, and unfortunately, it is expected to keep rising. So if you're just thinking about like Weight says the supply of poultry rose from below three kilograms a person in 1961 to kilograms in 2022.
00:22:16
Speaker
This is from the Food and Agricultural Organization. Pork supply doubled to 15 kilograms, but like, as you said, meat... which they point out is the most polluting food, um stayed steady at nine kilograms. And then a lot of this article is just about the environmental effects, about how agriculture is polluting and so on.
00:22:35
Speaker
I don't know. What did you make of this story? and I'm glad you found some good news in it. Well, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's thin pickings. I think it does relate to our first story in that it does point out that in low and middle income countries, animal foods are many times more expensive relative to people's income. So the effect on your you know weekly budget or whatever is much greater in low and middle income countries if you're choosing to eat meat, which which makes it all the more tragic, doesn't it, really, that the people are are seeing it as a generalised
00:23:18
Speaker
statement, seeing it as something that's desirable, a luxury, maybe it's seen as ah as something that is, you know, traditionally seen as ah as a healthy thing to do. Oh, I'll get stronger. I mean, this is this is one source and it's probably a hundred years old, but I remember reading Mahatma Gandhi's autobiography and he cited growing up as a teenager, coming across people who ate meat. And there was this assumption that, oh, wow, these people who eat meat are much stronger. Like that's the thing to do. And he, he chose not to do that, but I'm, I'm i'm sure that will be a, a thing that, that many millions of people experience as a, as a pressure or a bit of, I don't know, incorrect science, I guess. Well, youre I mean, i just remember conversations with my grandparents who are are gone now, but they were born in 1918, 1919, and those years. And they would talk about how meat was eaten just on special occasions. You know, they didn't have meat all the time. And now...
00:24:25
Speaker
in developed countries, people feel like they need to eat meat at breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And that's how you're getting these huge these huge increases. And yes, it is more expensive compared to people's incomes in and other countries, but that's because they probably don't subsidize it like it's subsidized here. It would be expensive. And you know with everything going on in the world right now, the prices are going up and some people have been complaining about how It's too expensive for them to buy the steak they wanted to buy or whatever. But if we actually, the government didn't use our money, our tax dollars to subsidize the industry, it would be much more expensive and more of a luxury for a lot of people and even in Western countries as well. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, in a sense, that's not something that's going to change next week or what have you, but just focusing on that fragility there, you know, it's it's not completely unthinkable that in the next 20 years or so globally, countries that have been propping up their country's animal ag sector
00:25:33
Speaker
might choose not to or might be forced not to. Interestingly, I mean that what this article does cite is the fact that previous reports from the Food and Agriculture Organization have been criticised by scientists for what they call the bewildering emission of meat reduction from a climate roadmap.
00:25:56
Speaker
alleged egregious errors that downplayed the climate benefits of reducing meat. um and And one researcher described it as like hitting a brick wall. I think preempting that, the latest report has included a promise that um later this year, they're going to bring out another report, the FAO, looking at environmental sustainability in greater detail. I mean, I i don't think we should get our hopes up, but it does show that kicking up a fuss and going, Oi, what the hell are you playing at? it It does put things on people's radar a bit more, but it's going to need a lot of pressure, isn't it? And lots of things changing to to to
Veganism & B12 Deficiency Issues
00:26:39
Speaker
nudge the needle. And that's what we'll keep doing, eh? Yeah, that's that's all we can do. Indeed.
00:26:45
Speaker
Now, our next story has been rumbling along for a few weeks. There has been a latest development, which we'll get into. And Shane and I were discussing off air. It's been covered ah by the Vegan Society's podcast in the last couple of weeks, ah sort of slightly indirectly and slightly directly to What are you talking about, Anthony? You're shouting at your podcast player. Let's get into it. We're taking the report from ITV.com, just mainstream TV channel in the UK, but you can find this covered in many places. So here's the headline.
00:27:21
Speaker
Father targets meaningful change after vegan daughter's death linked to vitamin B12 deficiency. So Georgina Owen ah lived to the age of 21. She was from Essex. She took her own life, I think in 2019. Yeah, in 2019, after yet in twenty nineteen after And these are, I'm quoting the articles here. This is not my opinion. This is just quoting the article. She took her own life after becoming delusional as a direct result, in quote marks, of a vitamin B12 deficiency caused by her vegan diet. An inquest has concluded.
00:28:06
Speaker
So this was... um up in the air until quite recently. i think it's fair to say her father Julian Owen has been doing lots of campaigning, trying to raise awareness of this, understandably so, and it's only relatively recently at the end of May, 20th of May, that the inquest into her death or as to what what might have caused it has concluded that a vitamin B12 deficiency ah was directly resulting in her becoming delusional and and that's been linked to her decision to end her own life. Shane, there's lots of nuance to this article. It's ah emotive. It's very sad.
00:28:56
Speaker
And anybody losing their life, choosing to end their life, you know, remaining family members and friends left behind, all sorts of difficulties here.
00:29:07
Speaker
What's your, what are your initial feelings on this? Cause there's, there's lots of different ways we can look at it, aren't there? So my initial feelings just from looking at the article were that I thought it was a good article and that it didn't it doesn't blame her death on being vegan.
00:29:22
Speaker
It does talk quite a bit about her being vegan. And it doesn't seem like her family is blaming that because they're quoted as saying she wanted to do something important in the world. And you know I assume that that was one riga reason that she went vegan. Also, i from listening to that podcast that the Vegan Society did, I learned a little bit more about vitamin B12. And um it seems like Anywhere from 2% to 20% of people, even in wealthier countries in the U.S. and the U.K., have a B12 deficiency because of various conditions or medications. And so the father is starting this organization called CRE.
00:30:08
Speaker
what is it called, Club 12 to warn other people about the risk of having a B12 deficiency. And that is something that really isn't talked about, i don't think, outside of um vegan circles.
00:30:19
Speaker
i don't I don't ever hear people talking about B12 unless they're vegans. well Well, I have, and it has been people who aren't vegan who have a vitamin B12 deficiency. I don't say that with glee. I just say it to point out, as you have, Shane, that many, many people end up with a vitamin B12 deficiency. And it's, I think I'm right in saying that it can take a little while for you to get to the stage where you are B12 deficient, even if you just stopped having any in your diet, assuming that you were starting off in in ah in a decent position.
00:30:56
Speaker
can take several years to leave your system and it can take several years to to build back up with regular intervention that normally takes the form of injection, doesn't it? Yeah. um And I think it's also important to note that even animals who are the main source of B12, because basically...
00:31:15
Speaker
People who eat meat are often not deficient in B12 because ruminant animals get the B12 through eating amount some amount of cobalt, which is you know a mineral in the ground. But since so many animals aren't really grazing outside or they may not be grazing in areas where there's enough cobalt or they may not get be getting enough cobalt, it's pretty much standard practice in the animal agricultural industry to give the animals B12 supplements. So if you do eat animals, you're getting your B12 through a supplement that the animal was given.
00:31:52
Speaker
So, I mean, for people to say, well, vegans, you know, they don't get enough B12. Well, we're getting it the same way that everyone is getting at it through through a supplement.
00:32:03
Speaker
You could just skip the the animal and take it directly. Yeah, I think that it can be a blessing as a vegan to feel the need to educate oneself more about human nutrition, because i think for most people, it can be just taken as oh, I don't need to think about what I eat.
00:32:29
Speaker
Like it's it's fine. like Like all elements of health, we tend to take it for granted. until it's a bit too late or until things get bad. And I think many of us, either because of society's pressures and norms, or because we recognize that being vegan is statistically unusual, most of us, one way or another, will end up looking into human nutrition a bit more. And thank goodness for that.
00:32:57
Speaker
Thank goodness for that, because it is not a thing to take for granted. There are so many things about the way we live our lives in 2026 that are completely divorced from how we would have lived our lives 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 1000 years ago, and we're essentially the same human animals as we were then. And there's so many things that we do now that are not necessarily in our best interest. So i I think understanding human biology and human nutrition is a really good thing. And wouldn't it be good if everyone did that, regardless of whether they're they're following a plant-based diet or not? i'm I'm aware that news stories like this, when they get into the mainstream, it can be difficult to control the narrative.
00:33:43
Speaker
So I don't want to say family members should have been more careful about the... the way that they reported this or the way that they're spreading this news or what have you, because I've, you know, ah I've been involved a couple of times in my life in news stories that have either made the local press or the national press. And it's really interesting to see how, you know, they just, well, like we do as a podcast, we don't go to the original source, do we? We've not spoken to Julian Owen, Georgina's father.
00:34:13
Speaker
We've taken this from another news source and then we're reporting on it. And what I'm getting at here is I think it's a real shame that the headline for clickbait reasons says vegan daughter's death.
00:34:28
Speaker
I think that's a real shame because the story here is that if you have a vitamin B12 deficiency, If we take the inquest's findings as gospel, if you've got a vitamin B12 deficiency, it can affect your brain's executive function and decision making.
00:34:47
Speaker
And that, of course, is not something that you wish for anyone. to And how many people are going to read that headline and think, oh, that's fine. I'm not vegan. I won't get a vitamin B12 deficiency, you know? Yeah, ah so many people. And I feel like that's also doing a disservice to what the father wants in creating Club 12. He's not creating vegan Club 12. He's creating... or even anti-vegan Club 12, is he?
00:35:14
Speaker
He's creating an organization to bring awareness to it. And now they're sort of saying, well, only 2% to 3% of the world's population needs to worry about this. And unfortunately, I do think the main discourse around this story is that this happened because she was vegan, um which is i had to debatable at best. Well, I mean, that the fact is that that this the story says she had stopped taking her B12 supplement.
00:35:44
Speaker
And I'm not blaming her. i You know, this is a horrible thing to happen. And if we just take the facts at face value, if as a vegan, you don't have a vitamin B12 supplement for a period of time, you might already have quite low levels just through genetics or over other factors, and and you're not having other supplemented foods, and you're not drinking from puddles and you know all all the ways that we would have got it in the past through having less sanitized lifestyle, there's a chance that you'll have a deficiency and and that can cause significant problems. So it it like you say, it's not it's not the fact that that she was vegan at all. and
00:36:26
Speaker
I think you know this really exemplifies the the problem with media that is wanting the validation, the clicks, the money, the newspaper sold at any cost.
00:36:42
Speaker
Like the cost here is misinformation. And I'd be saying that if it wasn't to do with veganism. The fact is it's a vitamin B12 deficiency that an inquest as has said as might have caused somebody's death here. Not the fact that they're vegan.
00:36:57
Speaker
So you need to report that really clearly, you know, and they say, you know, it's it's not just health things where poor reporting can lead to people getting misinformation. I i agree. And i I just also have to question if we do have anywhere upwards of different, I looked at different studies um and I've saw numbers like two to 3% have vitamin. I had a fifth of the population has a vitamin B12 deficiency. If we do have numbers like that,
00:37:24
Speaker
then I'm not a coroner, I'm not a medical officer. I can't argue with the results of the inquest, but I do have to wonder if that really was the main cause of her death. I don't know. There couldn't have been other factors. I mean, why would there not be more people that we would see this happening too because of a deficiency?
00:37:45
Speaker
um So I just feel like we're not we don't have the whole story. And I mean, I don't necessarily want the whole story, but um the inquet they just seemed very certain that it was because of the B12. And um I don't know about that.
00:37:58
Speaker
I will say that I had the same... hesitation. And I don't think that's the main takeaway from this story. I think the the main takeaway is the headline and the and the reporting and everyone needs to get enough B12 and you can get it as a vegan. So, you know, you don't need to abuse animals for it. But yeah, I, my hunch and, you know, I could be wrong and I don't think it matters whether I'm right or not, but my hunch is that It does mention that ah the the father, Julian Owen, who's doing most of the campaigning here, he's a surgeon. He's, you know, he's used to being in control. He's highly educated, all of these things. And I just wonder, you know, if he bangs enough tables um and and shakes his fist enough. Out of grief, out of wanting some agency, some control in his life. what What's in it for a jury to say, no, we don't think it was because of that?
00:38:53
Speaker
Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you just say, yeah, okay, fine. It was because of that. And you've got this campaign that you're running to try and help more people not go, not suffer the same fate as your 21 year old daughter who's tragically lost her life.
00:39:08
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. And could be completely wrong. That's just my opinion. And don't you feel too that the article would have been more helpful by spotlighting his organization more and also by giving like some call to action? Like if you are wondering about your levels of B12, here's what you can
Ethics in Animal Welfare Advertising
00:39:26
Speaker
do. You can see your doctor, you can get tested to see what your levels are. You know, I mean, it doesn't say any of that.
00:39:33
Speaker
So it's just not very, not a really very helpful article and at all No, the the the homepage of Club 12, which is club-12.org. Oh, they didn't even have that in the article. They just wrote Club 12. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they link to it though. You can follow the link, yeah. But it doesn't mention the word vegan or plant-based anywhere. It says Club 12 is an international collaborative network dedicated to advancing, understanding, diagnosis and treatment of vitamin B12 deficiency. Hooray for that.
00:40:02
Speaker
Good for them. And, you know, all power to them. That's the headline, isn't it? Really? Yeah. All right. So, um, you ready to move on to Switzerland? Yeah. Do you know what? i am ah it's It's not that important. I just pulled up the number of people that that die from ah bowel cancer each year in the UK and just focusing on the fact that 95% of adults in the UK are fibre deficient.
00:40:28
Speaker
You know, just just to be like, hey, do you know what? There's there's loads of loads of things that we can really simply do and change. Sorry. No, I agree. We should just move on. Yeah.
00:40:39
Speaker
Before we get in any trouble, let's go to Switzerland. and This is from Swissinfo.ch. And the headline is, Animal Rights Activist Lodge Complaint Against Swiss Supermarket. And I believe the supermarket is Migros.
00:41:00
Speaker
I don't know if that's the correct way to say it. Probably not. There is a group called the Webermist. I don't know if that's how to say that. A team plans to lodge a complaint with the Swiss Fair Training Commission in the next few days because Migros is using the statement, and this is in quotes, always topical, colon, animal welfare, and an advertising campaign. And the Weber Miss team feels like that is very cynical in view of serious animal protection problems and you know in the livestock industry.
00:41:34
Speaker
And they go on to name some of those. Anthony, what did you think? I felt like there was a little bit of translation difficulty because always topical animal welfare, that seems very strange advertising campaign to me, but I think it's something with the translation. Yeah. it so i I took it as you know animal welfare is always like a priority for us. Oh, okay.
00:41:58
Speaker
yeah Like something we're always thinking about. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. As opposed to, yeah, it's always topical. I mean, we don't care about it, but you know, it's, you know, always raises a few debates or what have you. Yeah. ah For me, the the most interesting thing to pull out here was that the labels animal welfare or animal friendly are not legally protected terms for advertising purposes.
00:42:25
Speaker
Which I do just think, considering in the last 12 months or so we have had EU stuff saying you cannot use the word sausage, you cannot use the word burger, etc, etc, when talking about, you know,
00:42:41
Speaker
conglomerations of lentils or wheat flour or whatever. You're not allowed to do that, but you're allowed to use the word animal welfare or animal friendly in any way that you want. There's no scrutiny at all there. Like, good on, Verba Mist, for challenging this because it's it's nonsense, isn't it? It's absolute nonsense that you can just say that. And I mean...
00:43:06
Speaker
I suppose the more egregious example of you using those phrases in bad faith would be more likely to get a lawsuit that would would kind of ah draw a parallel between the, you can't call that sausage, you can't call it a burger.
00:43:25
Speaker
so So who knows whether this this challenge with Me Gross and their advertising campaign, who knows whether it's going to have the same impact as that. but Like, I think we've said it on the show several times, haven't we? Like, well, if if you're going to say that we can't do that, then, you know, there's some pushback we can give here too. You know, whether it's saying you can't use the word animal welfare or or free range or whatever, or by saying, well, no, let's get really specific with the words that we use. You know, so don't use words like animal welfare. Spell out exactly what you mean by that or spell out exactly how old...
00:44:06
Speaker
these animals are when you're killing them or et cetera, et cetera. Or conditions they were raised in. yeah But maybe that's the point of the lawsuit is to try to push that ah through, you know, because it because since they're not legally protected terms, maybe they want to start trying to change that.
00:44:23
Speaker
I also, did you um look at the very last part of this article where Migros, their their um statement is that the challenges associated with livestock farming can only be tackled, quote, in collaboration with agriculture, research, and the authorities.
00:44:41
Speaker
And I just thought, they they said absolutely nothing in that statement. That's their defense? what That means there's just words, right? Well, it's with the PR team at the minute, isn't it? Like that's not the legal team saying that or anything like that. I think they're hoping this will just go away. That's not even good PR. They're not. What are they saying? these sad no by remember Right.
00:45:06
Speaker
Let's say agriculture research and authority. Let's just put that in a sentence somewhere. Yeah. They didn't have a good answer to this this lawsuit. Did you see the comments at the bottom? No. Oh, there's a whole lot of comments. whole lot of comments. And folk who advocate on behalf of animals have been active. ah Currently, I'm looking at... ah hey So underneath...
00:45:30
Speaker
This article, it says, join the debate. And then there's a new box. Is Switzerland doing enough to protect animals? Yes, no. 3,000 people have voted. And then says 397 arguments. And then there's a whole big comment section. And there's lots of people saying, yeah, that like...
00:45:52
Speaker
There's a lot of nonsense here. And do you know what? If you care about animal welfare, stop stop killing them. So that was really heartening, actually. wow Yeah, they really do. They really do have some great comments on here. I just voted in their in their vote, Switzerland doing enough to protect animals? And I voted no based on this article. And 62% of people voted no and voted three percent were undecided for some reason but let's Let's read the top no argument. So this has got 32 points. I don't know whether that's just them generally in their lifetime of comments or or for this one, but this is contributrice empathetic.
00:46:33
Speaker
ah Laws are just there so that humans can exploit animals with a clear conscience. Animal welfare does not mean being locked up in barns for two thirds of their life and being killed when they no longer produce enough milk or eggs or can no longer give birth to babies.
Audience Engagement & Future Episodes
00:46:48
Speaker
That is not what loving animal means either.
00:46:51
Speaker
While Switzerland may have the strictest requirements, interesting how every country thinks they've got the strictest requirements, ah farm animals are there to make money and are not considered as beings with the right to dispose of their lives freely as we allow for wild animals, although we do so we do kill some of them, always for economic reasons.
00:47:10
Speaker
And domestic animals are there for our pleasure. Some are bred for money. So of course we cannot release them into the wild, cows, chickens, pigs, for example. because they are no longer capable of surviving there. So we should therefore stop breeding them and place the survivors in sanctuaries.
00:47:25
Speaker
Let's get contributrice empathetic on the pod. what Yeah, really. Yeah, yeah. So all all power Verbumist and their campaign. And hopefully we'll be reporting on this more in coming weeks. Yeah, hopefully they we have some good news coming out of Switzerland.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Fingers crossed. I'm going to Switzerland actually in a month or so. I'm there for four nights on a little bit of a European tour. So um i'll I'll see. I'll see if animal welfare really is their priority. Well, know what? I'm going to Switzerland next year in March. So just for a few nights too. And so you follow you let me know and then I'll follow up next year.
00:48:06
Speaker
A Swiss special. What could possibly go wrong? Yeah. Well, we're really, really grateful for everyone who is listening to our pod. wherere We're not neurotic with the with the numbers and the downloads and things like that, but I do check from time to time and it's lovely seeing how many of you are tuning in just in the first week of a show coming out. It's really, really lovely. Yeah, we've got a lovely, lovely community that you're part of, listeners. um We love hearing from you.
00:48:33
Speaker
Enoughwiththefalafel at gmail.com. There's the socials, aren't there, Shane? Tell us about the socials, what people can do. Yeah, we are on Instagram and Facebook. And we try to post all the stories that we've covered here. They'll be on Facebook. So if you want to follow those links, you can follow those if you forget to check the show notes on Instagram. I can't really do that. But I do always post when a new episode is out. And um I know a lot of you comment on it or you message me and send me stories. And um I pass those on to the group so that we can cover those and That's so appreciated. So follow us there. feel free to comment. um
00:49:09
Speaker
DM us with your opinions um about how wrong we are or how right we are. We'd love to hear from you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Please do all of that. We have a Ko-Fi page as well. You can give a pound or a dollar a month or or more if you if you want. to to Or a euro, right?
00:49:27
Speaker
Or a euro. If you're in Switzerland. Yes, indeed. Indeed. So that goes towards getting us better quality recording equipment. So it kind of all comes back to you too. um And just sharing the show, telling people about it, commenting on episodes, all of that good stuff helps. So if you can engage in any of that, that would be great. When is enough of the falafel coming to people's ears next? Shane. All right, so the next episode is going to be a vegan talk episode, and it will be available from Thursday, the 18th of June, and it's also going to be me and Antony in your ears, and we are going to be reviewing the 2017 film Carnage. who
00:50:10
Speaker
I cannot wait. I cannot wait. It's going to be a good one. Anyway, that is enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you, Shane, for all you have contributed to this episode and beyond.
00:50:21
Speaker
Thank you, everyone, for listening. We definitely wouldn't do it without you. I've been Anthony, and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:50:34
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster.
00:50:44
Speaker
We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com. And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:51:15
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:51:36
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:51:50
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.