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281- Going Vegan for...my penis?!
45 Plays2 hours ago
Oh yeah, we went there! Following PETA's latest "plant-based diets give you more enduring erections" advert, we thought we'd ask David, Dominic & Paul to talk aubergines...and vegan diets, as well as themes around masculinity and what positive messages could be adopted by the vegan movement in this way.
In this discussion we reference:
*PETA's latest ad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvaXVyGp1Q
*Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19CUzfCOvPc
*The Game Changers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYsxJ4fgUGU
As ever, we love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
Like what we do? Want to help it sound even better? Join our KoFi gang here: https://ko-fi.com/ENOUGHOFTHEFALAFEL
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Paul, Dominic & David
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello everybody! Let me ask, does anyone really go vegan for men's health reasons? Well, my name is Dominic, and for this episode of Vegan Talk, I am also joined by Paul and David. Welcome to Enough of a Falafel!
Humorous Takes on Veganism
00:00:19
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble, even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for! Brrr! Roaty. Take your flat-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida.
00:00:31
Speaker
Should I call the medium and say, hi, sorry. True education. younger generation are getting know how brutal these practices are. That leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems with thinking.
00:00:43
Speaker
What is this? What kind of movie is this? It's comedy gold, maybe. Any form of social injustice.
00:00:52
Speaker
As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns, you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:01:01
Speaker
cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision.
Listener Engagement and Past Episodes
00:01:05
Speaker
Hello everyone, this is Paul here. Welcome to this episode of Vegan Talk and thank you for being here. Hi everyone, my name's David. Previous episodes of Vegan Talk are available in folks' podcast feed.
00:01:16
Speaker
Indeed they are. So on Enough of the Falafel, we do two different types of shows. There's the Vegan News shows, where we discuss stuff that is topical. However, these shows, the one you're listening to now, Vegan Talk, the idea is that they're evergreen shows. We take a topic that...
00:01:34
Speaker
is less likely to date. So please do go back in your podcast feed and listen to some of the previous ones. We got ones where I talk about my job as a vegan poet, writing vegan poetry. We got ah all our contributors talking about their lives, their own personal vegan journeys. We're really proud of them. So please do check them out.
PETA Ad on Men's Sexual Health
00:01:59
Speaker
But what's the topic of today's show? Well, we are going to be talking about a recently launched ad from Peter, Peter being the people for the ethical treatment of animals.
00:02:13
Speaker
And ah we've we've got links also in the show notes as well as to the Peter ad. We got something from the Game Changers, which is quite a long show. We got a specific excerpt from that. And also from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. so we got three YouTube links and I'm going to summarize them a little. ah The Peter ad is quite a short little video in which two people who are fencing the sport uh they're not holding the the swords in their hands they've got them two men with them on their groins and they're uh battling away with these very phallic swords and uh it's about a minute long and it's to make the point that a vegan diet according to this new vegan ah peter ad A vegan diet is good for men's health, men's sexual health, for men getting erections, for men getting better erections, for men's sexual prowess. So then there's a little video on the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine where they talk in a little bit more detail about this in a less jokey way. And then the Game Changers video is a little bit pre-priced. somewhere in the middle because there's ah a guy in a lab to coat who is talking to three very uh what's the word i would use three three jocks three jocks that's the phrase i would use describe the jocks three men and ah they get out a a model of a penis and talk about these men measuring the circumference of each of their individual penises
00:03:59
Speaker
based on whether they've eaten a vegan diet or whether they've eaten a meat diet. So the same men go through a a number of days where on some days they're eating meat, on some days they're not eating meat. And the idea being that they measure their willies, the circumference of their willies based on diet.
Critique of Game Changers Study
00:04:17
Speaker
and and record that and yeah ah spoilers ah they say that the ah quality of their erection is a higher quality when they're on the vegan diet I can imagine that something that Paul and David and I might spend a little bit of time talking about is the fact that this presenter of the game changers wearing the lab coat says in a i
00:04:47
Speaker
I'm being a little bit harsh. No, actually, no, I'm not being harsh. I'm not being harsh when I say that. He says it in a very off-the-cuff manner. And just at the end, he goes, oh, this isn't actually a scientific research project. You know, li there's a... So, yeah, my initial reaction from this, and I'm going to ask Paul and David for their initial reaction, is whenever something comes up that is vegan, I really want to support it.
00:05:13
Speaker
And i'm I'm less keen on this one because I don't feel that it comes from ah place that is thoroughly researched with quotable content.
00:05:30
Speaker
sources from which the studies are a reliable scientific study and if if you know I'm often very critical of Peter and Peter's adverts I actually think their short little advert is quite funny and and doesn't do too much harm it's more the game changers one that I'm less keen on because I think that if there was one made defending eating meat saying eating meat. Oh, that's a real man's thing. That'll make you better in bed. Oh, come on. Well, we'd be doing a whole show slagging off that gang. It's not even science on what are they basing that? And I kind of feel a little, a little disappointed in, in
00:06:12
Speaker
in the existence of this really, I don't think that it does our vegan cause much good because it's so, uh, so, so, you know, not really something that we can back up with any data. That's what I think. Anyway, maybe I'm being far, far too harsh on this. I mean, it's, It's silly. It's definitely like the YouTube videos. They've got a lot of comments. So the counter argument is, is being really successful. There's a whole load of people being like, oh, yeah, I'm definitely showing this to my boyfriend.
00:06:43
Speaker
I'm presuming that they're heterosexual women writing in the comments. Yeah, I'm sharing this with my fella, make him. And, you know, is there an argument that anything that encourages people to go vegan is a good thing. Is there an argument that the ends justify the means and it doesn't really matter because what matters are the lives of animals, the cruelty to which animals are subjected? Is that the most important thing or are we weakening our whole cause by having this kind of thing in
Humor and Science in Vegan Advocacy
00:07:17
Speaker
it? Paul, what's your take?
00:07:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think if we deal with the pizza video first, which is very short, I think it's only actually 30 seconds, which um in terms of performance is ironically quite short, I guess. But it's um it's meant to be very jokey. ah It's pretty funny, actually, when I watched it. it's It's not trying to be scientific. I think, like you say...
00:07:39
Speaker
it's trying to tap into the sort of TikTok generation where it's, ah you know, short, funny sort of sketch like material. and And probably I think it's,
00:07:53
Speaker
trying to probably tap into kind of a bit of the, uh, manosphere, uh, kind of environment we've got now to almost say, Hey, if you're interested in all this kind of, uh, male virility and stuff like that, then, uh, here's a thing that you might think is completely the opposite to what you might be doing. You might be in like steak thinking you're, that's going to be good for your, um, you know, your health heart, um, and, and sort sexual health as well. um And here's an alternative view. So I guess i guess it's interesting what I'd have liked to have seen, and I think this is probably the same with all of them, and you've alluded to this as well, Dom, is I think what they could have done at the end of that video was just kind of had one
00:08:33
Speaker
kind of like finishing screen, i'm finish the right phrase there um that that says ah that says ah for more information, visit, you know, Peter, and then then they could kind of probably back it up with some sort of evidence of scientific study and a bit more information. But it's, ah you know, i't maybe they think they wouldn't get the the interest. But to me, that would have been ah and and a nice way of rounding that off to sort of see...
00:08:58
Speaker
to see yeah see if they can get more information out there as well to people. But, you know, for for what it's meant to be, i don't think it's trying to be anything different. I think the... Let's talk about the Game Changers one. um Yeah, I think, fairly similar to yourself, it's a limited... No, you can see it's a limited study anyway. You've got three guys, i think it's just three guys, studying over two nights with different meals on each night.
00:09:24
Speaker
it's not It's not a scientific study. It's kind of more of a... for TV kind of study, you wouldn't put any real kind of sort of solid, again, might be the wrong word, and ah so scientific face in it. But but it is interesting. And i think it does kind of open the eyes to think, oh, maybe it's something we could look at a little bit more closely And as you say, the guide to say, look, it's not scientifically valid study. So it's a bit of a entertainment science, I suppose, really at the end of the day. The the last one, then the Neil Barnard one, who's a really, really well known in the vegan circles as a doctor that sort of promotes veganism. And that sort of focuses on erectile dysfunction. And so it talks about that not being anxiety based, which I think is kind of often talked about and sort of says, you know
00:10:13
Speaker
if you compare heart health and, uh, penis health that actually, you know, you're looking at the same sort of medical challenges there in terms of narrowing of arteries for blood flow. So, uh, and he does quote at least two studies, I think in that. so that's quite good. But again, for all of these, I'd like there to be personally, I'd like it to be more scientific reference in there. Um, I did go away very briefly,
00:10:38
Speaker
last night and and sort of put into google and there is loads of stuff out there um that looks at this uh you know i i didn't look at the studies in detail but there's certainly studies out there so it felt like you could maybe you've talked about that a little bit more but you know short youtube clips maybe they think that's a bit boring people don't really want to have the detailed science they want a bit something that drags people in with a bit bit bit of a bit humor and then make maybe make some think at least so yeah that's my take on it Thank you, Paul. So it sounds like we're saying that in the Peter advert, that, you know, far less than a minute, like Paul said, about 30 seconds, they're not really focusing on science. That's a fair thing to say, isn't it, David?
00:11:20
Speaker
Indeed. Yes, it is,
Vegan Ads and Masculinity
00:11:21
Speaker
Dominic. Yes. um This clip from Peter is obviously meant to be funny, provocative and a bit ridiculous. It's basically vegan advertising disguised as comedy. Sharpen your sword. Go vegan is not very subtle messaging.
00:11:35
Speaker
What's interesting, though, is how me and vegan modern vegan campaigning has shifted over time. Traditionally, vegan outreach focused very heavily on ethics and animal suffering, but clips like this are aimed at completely different pressure ah at a completely different pressure point.
00:11:51
Speaker
Masculinity, virility, stamina, and sexual confidence. it's just It's trying to sell veganism, not as sacrifice, but optimisation. Scientifically, there is at least some basis underneath the joke. Erectile function is strongly linked to blood flow and cardiovascular health, so diets that improve vascular function may help some men experiencing erectile dysfunction.
00:12:14
Speaker
That's a legitimate area of research, but the problem is the clip massively oversimplifies things into a direct vegan diet equals super erections message. The humour also does a lot of the persuasive work here by making it over the top and comedic. The video becomes shareable and memorable. People may not remember statistics about cholesterol and endothelial function, but they absolutely remember a screaming voice shouting, sharpen your sword.
00:12:43
Speaker
That's marketing more than science communication. It's also very interesting because the clip deliberately flips old stereotypes. Historically, meat-eating has often been culturally associated with masculinity and strength, while veganism was stereotyped as weak or overly soft.
00:13:00
Speaker
This kind of content tries to reverse that narrative completely and say, actually, the more masculine, virile, energetic option is actually the plant-based one. So overall, it's a lot less, it's a less of a scientific, a serious scientific argument, and more of a very modern piece of persuasive media.
00:13:19
Speaker
There's a grain of scientific truth underneath it, but it's exaggerated, simplified and wrapped in humour to make the message stick. Similarly with The Game Changers, this clip is probably one of the most talked about moments from The Game Changers documentary, because it talks about something culturally loaded, the masculinity and sexual performance, and ties it directly again to diet.
00:13:40
Speaker
It's designed to be funny, awkward, memorable and honestly, it does succeed at that. You really do remember the scene. The core claim is that plant-based meals improve blood flow and therefore improve erectile dysfunction um erectile function compared to meat-based meals, similar to what Peter discussed.
00:13:57
Speaker
Now, biologically, there is plausible mechanism there. Erections do rely heavily on vascular health and blood flow, and diets high in saturated fat can temporarily impair endothelial function, basically the ability of blood flood blood vessels to dilate properly, so the underlying idea isn't completely pseudoscience.
00:14:16
Speaker
But where the criticism comes in is how the documentary presents the evidence. Even in the clip itself, the doctor openly admits this is not a scientifically validated study. They're using a tiny sample size of the three jock athletes. There's no proper control structure and the results are presented in a very dramatic entertainment focused way. It's reality TV science more than rigorous science.
00:14:39
Speaker
The film also frames meat versus plants as a very as a very simple binary, meat bad, plants good, when nutrition science is usually far more nuanced than that.
00:14:50
Speaker
The burritos are described as containing meat, but also we're told the plant meals were very similar without much detail about calories, fat content, fibre, sodium, digestion, timing, or any other variables that could affect sleep and circulation.
00:15:05
Speaker
What's interesting though is how effective the messaging is psychologically. They deliberately challenge stereotypical ideas of masculinity, The athletes themselves even joke about how they used to associate steak with strength and salads with weakness.
00:15:20
Speaker
The documentary flips that narrative flips thats narrative completely and says, actually, if you care about performance, stamina, blood flow and athleticism, maybe the plant-based meal is more manly more the more manly option.
00:15:34
Speaker
That's the real rhetorticical rhetorical move happening here. So I think this clip does work incredibly well as persuasion and entertainment, but muchsh much less well as hard scientific evidence. It's memorable advocacy filmmaker, not robust nutritional research. Yeah, I really agree, David. i think that for me, the first one, the Peter advert, is...
00:15:56
Speaker
Like, it's really clear what it is because it's so visually such a a joke and it's so short. And the second one, because he's wearing a lab coat that's like...
00:16:09
Speaker
It's got the the the trappings of being scientific. I guess it could tie into a wider point, though, about, like, are we living in an age where increasingly all that matters is perceived charisma? I mean, we only have to look... You know, Paul David and I, we're all based in the UK, and we only have to look at what happens...
00:16:29
Speaker
politically in the UK. Now on previous shows, I've nailed my own political colours very firmly to the mast. ah You know, shock horror, I'm a vegan who's left-leaning, what a surprise. But a lot of the success of the right-wing parties comes from their charisma, overriding any need of facts and them just laughing when questioned about facts. Just really...
00:16:55
Speaker
gleefully not engaging and not not really even saying often no that's wrong just like like laughing being like oh i'm not answering questions on that and when you look at the popularity of our of our really nasty really cruel right-wing people people are like oh they're they're they're men of the people they can imagine them down the pub and maybe um from a left-leaning perspective, maybe that is all we need. I mean, in fairness to them, they do very clearly say at the end, this isn't science. And maybe, and this is me changing my opinion. This is me changing my opinion. I started this show very much the opinion. Now really, it really matters that it's not science. And maybe it doesn't.
00:17:41
Speaker
Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe for the sake of animal welfare, animal cruelty being lessened, maybe it doesn't matter. Does
Scientific Backing vs. Charisma in Advocacy
00:17:50
Speaker
it matter, Paul? Does it matter that it's that it's, you know, they're owning up that it's not science? Is that in this day and age, in 2026, does it matter?
00:18:00
Speaker
Well, we're post-truth now, aren't we? So I guess I suppose you can look at it two ways. There's the... you can look at it in fair fairly ah harsh terms and say, you didn't have to use science to convince people to do something, and ah then like go vegan, for example, then you could say, well, fine, okay, if that's what's going to work, great. But there's a part of probably, i think probably all of us, given what I've heard, and most people who are, you know, reasonably educated, I wouldn't say super clever or anything like that on my part, but you kind of you do look for the kind of, okay, what what is that based on that statement? is that You look for some kind of evidence, even if that is one study out of 100 and maybe there's conflicting views on it. But at least you've got something to say, well, actually, you know, that there has been some kind of study in it rather than just saying, I heard a bloke down the pub say this thing and then going, all right, yeah, that must be right then. Because it just doesn't, it just feels like,
00:18:54
Speaker
it could It could be, the you know, the the the bullshit risk is a lot higher. Yeah, yeah. I guess I am a person who, as a teenager, went vegetarian way before I went vegan and was so mocked for that. I grew up in a farming community and a phrase that didn't exist back then but definitely does exist now is soy boy as an insult as like a pathetic man ah you know that's that's a big thing now and it
00:19:25
Speaker
It had its variants back when I was a kid. I was definitely seen as ah as ah as an effeminate man. My vegetarianism did nothing to help ah views of masculinity. And I really struggled with it. I really, really struggled with what is a man? Am I a man?
00:19:44
Speaker
I happen to be a gay man. And so that I was becoming aware of that. And it's been kind of quite a big thing in my life, really. So I guess you could argue that having these, as we call them, jocks, being positive about the diet they're having,
00:20:05
Speaker
It's good that it challenges that on any level, on any level. Just just to have Jock saying that ah we ate this ah vegan diet and it did improve our sexual prowess is...
00:20:20
Speaker
a welcome change to the kind of attitudes that I was bombarded it with when I was ah a very bullied kid. That's the first two videos. David, there's the third video, and the third video is is a little bit of, you know, a different tone from the from the other two. What's your take on the third one, David? Thank you, Dominic. Yeah, this clip is much more medically grounded than the previous ones, um but it still simplifies the science quite heavily in order to make a persuasive point.
00:20:53
Speaker
The strongest part of the argument is actually the link between erectile dysfunction and cardiovascular disease. that part is well established medically. Erectile dysfunction can absolutely be an early warning sign of vascular problems because erections rely on healthy blood flow and the arteries involved are smaller and can show dysfunction earlier than coronary arteries.
00:21:14
Speaker
So the point that erectile dysfunction can correlate with heart disease, diabetes and metabolic problems is legitimate and supported by other research. um Where things become more debatable is when the speaker jumps from diet affects cardiovascular health to very broad claims specifically blaming foods like meat and cheese as the direct cause.
00:21:37
Speaker
The science around diet and cardiovascular disease is much more nuanced than simply animal foods clog arteries. Factors like obesity, smoking, inactivity, diabetes, ultra processed food intake, Alcohol consumption, genetics and overall calorie balance all play major roles too.
00:21:55
Speaker
The video also frames low-fat plant-based diets almost as a cure-all. Now it is true that some studies have shown plant-based diets can improve cardiovascular markers, blood pressure, insulin sensitivity and sometimes erectile functioning directly through better vascular health. but saying erectile dysfunction often goes away, risks overselling that certainty and universality of the outcome.
00:22:20
Speaker
Erectile dysfunction has many causes, psychological, hormonal, neurological, medication related and age related, not just arterial narrowing. What's interesting rhetorically rhetorically is that these videos deliberately reframe reframe veganism away from ethics and towards performance, masculinity and self-interest.
00:22:40
Speaker
Instead of saying don't eat and um don't eat animals because it's morally wrong, the argument becomes if you want better sex, better circulation and better health, maybe you should rethink your diet.
00:22:52
Speaker
That's a very different persuasion strategy and probably reaches audience who would normally ignore traditional vegan messaging. So overall, there's definitely real science underneath the clip.
00:23:03
Speaker
but it's packaged in a very one-directional advocacy style. It presents the strongest evidence supporting plant-based diets while leaving out most of the nuance, uncertainty, and broader context.
00:23:15
Speaker
Yeah, David, there's so many reasons why so very many men experience erectile dysfunction.
Humor and Stigma in Men's Health
00:23:23
Speaker
And I think that there's so much stigma and shame, embarrassment and awkwardness talking about it.
00:23:34
Speaker
And yeah, I, i You know, i work in the um in the the world of poetry. I listen to other people's poetry. And I always always like it when people add humour to poems. I think that if we're talking about something really political or emotional, to have some levity can help. But...
00:23:54
Speaker
dick jokes could be good or bad, can't they? And I'm always a little bit aware, is this something that's, ah you know, making fun of people? And it potentially can be, ah you know, because in the same breath, we're always talking about men's mental health being something we've really got to explore and be paying more attention to and and be more ah there for each other as as men and yeah i think that fundamentally all of this all three of these videos are saying
00:24:30
Speaker
big erections are good, which, you know, some people might say, well, you know, no shit, Sherlock. But like, you know, I've spoken about how I identify as a gay man. I mean, increasingly we hear phrases like people who identify as asexual or demisexual, you know, people um don't necessarily equate a life that is worth living, a life that is joyful, a life that is good with those sorts of sexual images. I think it's going after a very, very, very particular demographic. And and I don't know. i don't know whether we we want to be, whether we want to be like ah playing into those ah it's those those those tropes of masculinity. I don't know.
00:25:17
Speaker
i don't know what I think. I don't know. yeah You're really right, David, when you say it is moving away from arguments of compassion and and animals. I don't know.
00:25:28
Speaker
I don't know. i What's your reaction thus far, Paul? Yeah, I think it's an interesting point that David raises about it, moving away from that message. but And I think he's right.
00:25:41
Speaker
ah But I also think that, as we've said before on the show a few times, it's about fighting the battle for animals on multiple fronts. And it's really like, ah in my view, yeah every... every avenue is worth exploring you know it's kind of but it has to be but it has to be um evidenced as uh positive you know so you can explore this sort of thing i mean let's say these videos were all made and they all attracted like mocking saying ah what a load of rubbish and i was universally panned even by vegans for example and and had a negative effect well obviously yeah that's that's ah not an avenue you really want to go down but
00:26:20
Speaker
Otherwise, I think that's fine. You know, it is almost like you say, it's like kind of going for a different demographic, a different audience, the sort of people that don't engage. We've talked before about the difficulty engaging with, say, ah young men in particular who have historically seen veganism as ah um emasculating and things like that. So for me, it's part of that, addressing that challenge by bringing this sort of stuff up. So, yeah, I think in general, it's actually a good thing.
00:26:49
Speaker
I just like to see it done slightly different. Let's talk a bit more about like what's called the manosphere about, you know, toxic right wing influencers like Andrew Tate and all of that. You know, my understanding is it largely begins from how many young men feel ignored and feel that they're not on the receiving end of compassion. And a lot of these really nasty videos that begin from a point of view of the influencer appearing to care about the people watching, giving genuinely good advice on fitness and diet and health and the the listener being on the receiving end of compassion
00:27:35
Speaker
It's not compassion because there's an agenda behind it, but it appears to be that they're on the receiving end of compassion. And I guess my struggle with this entire thing, this entire Peter Game Changers thing, is that it's not about compassion. It's very much about what's in it for me, what's in it for me. And I think so. So I mentioned that I'm a poet and sometimes I've i've had bookings to go into schools where they feel a lot of the young men are really influenced by these manosphere influencers and they're recognizing all
00:28:13
Speaker
young people need most is compassion like a positive role model and you even yeah i'm not unique in it i live in manchester and i'm friends with a large number of male poets who do the same thing and just even like a guy who's listened to these young people and then they hear them saying something really vile about women and they're like Oh, that's not cool to say that. Like as simple as that that, that can be the start of a bigger change. And I think that I wonder how much longevity vegan approaches can have if compassion is not at the heart of it. It's not because there is an opportunity to engage battling the manosphere with compassion. And I think this isn't it. And I wonder if the entire argument is,
00:29:05
Speaker
here's what's in it for you. Here's what is a selfish, you know, you it for you, you know, better sex, you know, better erections. Like, is that because people's sex lives change throughout their life, people go through phases of greater sexual desire, you know, sort of less sexual desire, not necessarily related to age, all kinds of factors. happen, stresses at work, like David was talking about before. There's all kinds of things. And I think that if our goal, if our ultimate goal is let's get more people vegan, I would argue that compassion must be at the centre of
Compassion vs. Self-Interest in Advocacy
00:29:44
Speaker
it. So maybe this might work as an ingredient amongst other things. But i'm as a result of talking on this show, I'm now leaning more towards in, oh, maybe... Maybe this isn't the best thing because I don't believe that it's impossible to win folks over with compassion. I know that's what's often said. Oh, well, young people don't care these days. I don't give a monkey's there. You can't win them over with compassion, but they can because once people understand opportunity,
00:30:12
Speaker
way they feel when they're shown compassion that's the gateway into you know or maybe maybe i'm being too liberal lefty maybe i'm being too idealistic am i being idealistic um i don't know about idealistic um but again i think it's about recognizing that there's different messaging for different groups of people, you know, if you were going to be talking to a load of old people about this, it's probably really a bit of a non-subject, he says, in a very generalising fashion. um that But, um yeah, so i I think you're right. it's kind of like a
00:30:52
Speaker
It's a bit like a satellite marketing pitch for veganism. But then, you know, you think we've talked a lot about probably all of us would want people to go vegan for the animals and for compassion. But we've talked loads, haven't we, about people going vegan for because they're really environmentally focused.
00:31:09
Speaker
And i think I think I'd argue you that's still a point of compassion, environmental, because it's compassion for your fellow human beings and for every life. Still a compassion based argument.
00:31:22
Speaker
that's true that's and you want a good hard on you know yeah yeah yeah i think that we but do there are people and i think you're right actually to be fair i think that you know some people are focused on it from a health perspective and that you i imagine on this if we take your what you said there health is kind of tends to be selfish because it's about you um ah you might be training with someone else you might be trying to help someone else so but i think health in general is a rightly selfish thing. um And I'm talking about general health here rather than sexual health. so
00:31:57
Speaker
And if people do, yeah, say, I don't know, recognise that I can lose weight, for example, um by going vegan and following a whole foods diet. That's... That's a selfish thing in terms of keeping your health good, I think, but yeah I don't think it's a bad thing. So I think, I think it's still part of a, part of a package again, maybe not the right phrase. Uh, I feel like I'm going innuendo central here, but, um, it's, uh, it's, it's, yeah, Many fronts to fight, you know, many all social changes, I think, need these different things. And if you're not tapping into certain parts of society and you're going to leave them behind, I mean, some of them you might say, well, I don't think it's worth bothering with people who are 95 because, you know, they're going to have such ingrained views. We're not going to change them. And they're going to be around that much longer, if you're being honest about it. But young men, I mean, they've got...
00:32:49
Speaker
loads of time on this earth probably and that we could have a great influence in terms of what they do and where they spend their money and like, you know, families that they might raise with other people. It's a it's a big but it' so big potential...
00:33:02
Speaker
influence point for animals ultimately um because these people have got you know hopefully lot long lives and and and money to spend and products to buy and um you know uh animals to either care for or otherwise so yeah i think it's still important well paul you're talking about weight loss there and i think that That's something that I'd forgotten all our many shows talking about that. And absolutely, I think weight loss falls into the same category that weight loss ideas come and go. And when I see arguments, go vegan for your waistline, you will lose weight if you go vegan. Exactly the same as what I'm saying about this. I think it's not long term. A new diet will come along. A new
00:33:46
Speaker
thing will come along, you know, maybe all these young men haven't heard of Viagra or whatever. mean, I say that jokingly, but you know, like, it's just, I i don't think it's a long term thing for keeping people committing to a vegan diet.
00:34:02
Speaker
dire I think that that compassion has to be ah at the heart of it. I mean, for me, it certainly was. For me, I've done shows on the past about, for me, it was going to, ah you know, animal rights.
00:34:15
Speaker
ah It was go to events that were just giving out free food and being like, oh, something for free. That's nice. And then seeing seeing the the the the videos, the leaflets of the that that that horrific imagery, that's kind of what made me go vegan it wasn't anything uh you know to do with my own journey my own sex life or my own weight loss really ah you know what what kept me going vegan was those horrific things what about you David like I mean that made maybe maybe I'm wrong maybe compassionate based things aren't the center of it what was it kind of that made you think about veganism
00:34:55
Speaker
i've I've been vegan for the last six months or so, but I've been vegetarian since 1991.
David's Transition to Veganism
00:35:03
Speaker
It certainly wasn't anything to do with sex life because I was only 14 and I hadn't even, yeah, I hadn't done anything. So it definitely wasn't that. My reasoning for becoming vegetarian was much more principle-based. I belonged to an activist group, even at 14, the British Union Against Vibisection. and I also had to the privilege of having an English lesson where where the video was it was of an abattoir um and it just put me off um and so for principles I became vegetarian um and I've stuck with it ever since um the reasons I went vegan for the last few years It has been for health reasons, but also because I wanted to do it do more for the world. I wanted to make it a better place and to to show willing and to do something more than I was at being vegetarian. um
00:35:58
Speaker
And the one of the reasons one of the reasons i didn't become vegan straight away was because I didn't know that I would like the food. um And like like with everybody, change is scary.
00:36:10
Speaker
um So going from being vegetarian to vegan scared me. I didn't know whether I'd be able to survive. I didn't know whether um I would get enough calcium or anything like that. I certainly wasn't worrying whether I could get the biggest erection possible amongst my peers. It was purely for health.
00:36:28
Speaker
um And just through fluke of who I'm dating, I happened to... Try vegan milk and um I haven't looked back. um I absolutely love being vegan. I am healthy. I've maintained a healthy weight. I've maintained everything. As far as I know, I am a healthy person inside and out from being vegan. my taste buds changed um and I don't regret doing it at all I don't feel weak because of it I don't feel like I'm an inferior man because of it I don't feel that having salad has affected my muscles so the claims of all the videos I don't relate to as a person as an individual at all
00:37:13
Speaker
i I do think that we need to validate compassion. I do echo everything that's being said about that. um Because I think if if my feelings weren't validated, if I wasn't compassionate, I would have really struggled.
00:37:28
Speaker
I would have struggled to be vegetarian, struggled to be vegan. um And I would have felt like i I was wrong doing that. I mean, I did make a change in 1991 where...
00:37:41
Speaker
people didn't really understand what even being vegetarian was. They thought that would be eating fish. There wasn't the language then. Pescatarian didn't really exist to describe someone who eats fish. So we are in a ah much better world now where we do actually, or we're able to, label what we are and what we do and I think compassion is very much needed for that we need to be more compassionate for each other in this world to support one another for our own individual choices we live in such a divisive world now that you know the world has changed we are far more right-wing far more
00:38:20
Speaker
against each other just for our differences whereas if we had compassion even down to our diets I think we would have a much more inclusive society um but yeah that's what I think Thank you, David. You know, sometimes we do shows where we just talk about our vegan journey and I feel that could almost be a teaser trailer. We've not had one yet for you talking about. That's really great to hear how positive it's been for you. And I really agree with what you say. I think you've you've kind of summed it up for us there.
00:38:49
Speaker
What a great thing to have talked about.
Closing and Future Episodes
00:38:53
Speaker
Thank you, everyone, for listening. It's absolutely brilliant to be part of this show, and we we wouldn't be here if you weren't tuning in. So please do share your opinions with us by email. You can drop us a line or support us financially. We've got a Ko-Fi. never know if I'm saying that correctly. Coffee is spelled K-O-F-I. If you go to ko-fi.com. forward slash enough of the falafel you can absolutely uh give us a bit of cash because we don't have a marketing team nothing like that uh we do what we do with the limited tech and marketing bits and bobs that we volunteer we're also on the socials you can find enough of the falafel on instagram and yeah
00:39:42
Speaker
What great thing do, this show. Cheers, everyone, for listening. And of course, thank you, David, for your contributions. And thank you, Paul. So the next Enough of the Falafel episode coming out will be available from Monday the 15th of June.
00:39:59
Speaker
And that will be one of our Vegan Week episodes. And that'll be featuring Anthony and Shane. That's our usual roundup of the week's vegan and animal rights news. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode.
00:40:12
Speaker
Thanks to Paul and Dominic for all your contributions. Thanks again, everyone, for listening. I've been David and you've been listening to Vegan Talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:40:27
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:40:41
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:41:08
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:41:29
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from