Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
290- Do kebab-eaters care what 'meat' is in their mouth?
111 Plays7 days ago
"I'm only interested in 100% lamb meat in my kebab". Has this phrase ever been uttered? Do people care if it's lamb meat, eyelid...or even goat? One story from the news this week has got David, Dominic & Mark discussing just this. But that's not all they cover, in this week's round-up of ten animal rights & vegan headlines from around the world.
Like what we do? Want to help it sound even better? Join our KoFi gang here: https://ko-fi.com/ENOUGHOFTHEFALAFEL
Thanks to Neil, Shane & Alex for their continued Ko-Fi support!
Thanks Shane for today's admin ;)
****************
Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
******************
This week's stories:
https://www.euroveg.eu/eu-protein-plan/
https://www.worldanimalprotection.org.uk/latest/news/uk-heatwave-broiler-chickens/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23695584451&gbraid=0AAAAAD7utSjecXlMakdA1T5LMya6S94WL&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjb3SBhDgARIsAMKiWzg1vgRslSkMt99C3eZBnjpqYLH_DpDrM2eVYx2sfzsaa8TiNDeakToaAi-AEALw_wcB
https://www.wpr.org/news/ridglan-farms-animal-rights-activists-raid-dane-county-felony-charges
https://www.c21media.net/news/off-the-fence-boards-animal-rights-feature-doc-crime-or-rescue/
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2026/07/01/turkish-singer-tan-tasci-shares-animal-rights-video-during-concert/
https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/news/peru-university-permanent-vegan-meals/
https://link.vox.com/view/68d5301ad130e1a79606e723ro9tj.1z26/366615f9
https://plantbasednews.org/animals/british-shoppers-chickens-no-longer-caged/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce95y1zlzyxo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilqeDbu4E8Y
****************
Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Dominic, Daivd, Mark
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Vegan Week
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello everyone. Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is the one place to come for vegan and animal rights news. Well, I would say that because I'm one of the people who does this show. My name is Dominic and joining me for this episode are David and Mark. But that's enough of the falafel. It is time for Vegan Week.
00:00:21
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Brody. Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida.
00:00:34
Speaker
Should I call the medium and say, hi, sorry. True education. younger generation are getting know how brutal these practices
EU Plant Protein Production
00:00:42
Speaker
are. That leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems of thinking.
00:00:45
Speaker
What is this? What kind of movie is this? It's comedy gold, maybe. Any form of social injustice.
00:00:55
Speaker
As long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:01:04
Speaker
cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hi everyone, this is Mark here and welcome to the show and thank you for being here. Hi everyone, my name's David. um This is our new show where we look through vegan and animal rights news from the last week or so.
00:01:19
Speaker
Yes, and remember you can read the original news reports for all the stories we cover in the show this week. Just check the show notes in your podcast player and follow the links. That's enough of the flatful from me. Let's hear what's been going on this week. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Mark. I'll tell you something that's been going on in my week. I've been saying a lot of poetry. That's what I do. I'm a poet and my voice is proper source. I hope all our listeners will be able to hear. We've also got the distraction that I'm in a house full of cats. Full of cats, there's loads of them running around. But with the struggles of cats and the struggles of a sore throat, let's look into what's been going on in the news. The European Commission has published its long-awaited EU protein plan, setting out a framework for scaling up sustainable plant protein production in the EU.
Animal Welfare Issues in the UK
00:02:08
Speaker
The plan provides an assessment of the challenges facing the EU protein sector and outlines a range of measures to strengthen the production of sustainable plant-based proteins.
00:02:20
Speaker
Also, here in the UK, which is from where we are recording this, well I am, Mark's nowhere near here, but I am recording in a place where temperatures are soaring. It is so, so hot.
00:02:34
Speaker
World Animal Protection reveals the stark reality that ah there is ah terrible, terrible conditions for chickens in yeah UK factory farms. 126 million chickens are housed in nearly 1,100 factory farms nationwide.
Activism and Legal Challenges
00:02:53
Speaker
Also, dozens of animal rights activists involved in the raid on Ridge Ian's animal breeding facility have been charged with burglary, property damage and theft, felony charges which could lead to years in prison and thousands of dollars in fines. In all, 47 people were charged in connection with the March 15th action in which activists broke into facility and took 22 beagles who had been bred for biomedical research.
00:03:21
Speaker
In related news, factual content distributor Off The Fence has acquired the forthcoming animal rights feature documentary Crime or Rescue, which is all about the Ridge Ian Rescue. Crime or Rescue is expected to be delivered late this year.
Vegan Advocacy in Music
00:03:40
Speaker
And finally, in this little section, I'm going to talk about a Turkish singer-songwriter. Now, believe it or not, here in the UK, I'm not as up to date with Turkish singer-songwriters as I wish I was, especially one who was raising awareness about animal rights and veganism. So huge apologies. We've got listeners all over the world, and I'm sure I'm going to absolutely make a mess of saying his name. I think it's Tantasky.
00:04:06
Speaker
Tantasky, he's using his 2026 concert tour to raise awareness about animal rights. During his stadium concert, Tasky pauses the show to play a five-minute video encouraging audiences to think about how animals are treated and how everyday choices humans make affect animals. According to the Vegan Association of Turkey, that's a TVD, the video has already been shown to more than 85,000 people during two concerts in Istanbul.
00:04:41
Speaker
Now, that's our run through of some of the stuff going on in the
Vegan Meals and Human Rights in Peru
00:04:45
Speaker
world. What we do every episode of Vegan Week is we choose some stories, which we all discuss in a little bit more detail. So um we're going to start off by talking about let's choose the article from vegan food and living uh should i chat to you about this david there's a peruvian university ordered to permanently offer vegan meals and i believe this is a historic court ruling as i say this has been reported in vegan food and living david what's been going on
00:05:26
Speaker
this This story is is fascinating because it asks a much bigger question than simply, should universities serve vegan food? Instead, it asks whether ethical veganism deserves the same ah practical consideration as other deeply held beliefs.
00:05:43
Speaker
If a university provides meals for its students, should should those meals be accessible to everyone, including people whose ethical convictions mean they cannot eat animal products?
00:05:55
Speaker
What i particularly like about this judgment is that it doesn't order an unrealistic overnight change. Instead, it requires the university to assess demand and introduce introduce nutritionally appropriate vegan meals in a sustainable way.
00:06:10
Speaker
That feels like a measured approach rather than an ideological one. For me, this is ultimately about inclusion. Vegan students pay fees, use university facilities and should be able to access campus dining without compromising their ethical beliefs. Offering a permanent vegan option isn't about forcing anyone else to eat differently. It simply means more more than one choice is available.
00:06:35
Speaker
It's also interesting the case was framed around human rights rather than nutritional environmental arguments. That shifts the conversation from is veganism healthy to should public institutions accommodate sincerely held ethical convictions. And that's a very difficult, ah sorry, that's a very different discussion.
00:06:54
Speaker
Yeah, I did not go to university, but I live right by a a big ah university here in Manchester, the city in which I live, and they're always pretty ah good on ah vegan stuff. Mark, what's your take on this particular story? I think it's interesting, as David says, that it actually doesn't even mention anything to do really with animals or certainly with animal rights. This is...
00:07:19
Speaker
sort of exclusively or the bedrock of this is is human rights. So it does sort of ah extend the argument. It shifts the debate really from, in this case, really from from animals to humans. So that's interesting. But I do recall my days in the University of Hatfield in Hertfordshire back in the mid-1990s and all the boss for vegans then was ah basically ah chips and salad, which I like. I really like chips and salads. I've never been done by but when I sort of go to a place and they say, oh, we've with i only got chips and salad.
00:07:55
Speaker
That's fine. I'll just have the chips and salad then. It is good to see this happening and ah good ah good on the students in Peru. and Peru isn't the sort of place that springs to mind when I think of, well, in this case, it isn't really animal rights or or of veganism or plant-based eating so it's interesting to see these these other things happen in places that i certainly am less familiar with it shows that there is something happening there that you know i'm maybe i may be unaware of but it's clearly sort of happening there was there was a groundswell of pressure for this sort of thing to be having there. So good on Yeah, yeah. David, I know that you have been to Bali. I know that. Have you been to Peru? No, I haven't. No, no, no I don't know what it's like for veganism or animal rights. I often talk about when ah I was lucky enough to be asked over to to South America, to Argentina, and I was really anticipating it to be terribly difficult for veganism. And sometimes we have these presumptions and it's really great, it's really good. You know, there's so many places across the planet that are really developing, really opening their eyes and making huge positive progress. That was my experience when I went to Buenos Aires. was so happy. I thought, know, this is going to be beef capital of the world.
00:09:03
Speaker
You know, nice. It was wonderful. It was really easy for me, actually, which I was expecting chips and salads. Yeah, yeah. Mmm, I love chips and salad. So was there exclusive vegan restaurants there, a scene of that, or was it just places were accommodated? what, it wasn't that good, unfortunately, but there was clearly labelled vegano, vegan options. So there were vegetarian restaurants which had vegan options. So, yeah, I didn't find it. Because I was all ready to be, like, catering for myself. I'd got self-catering accommodation. Yeah.
00:09:39
Speaker
yeah A very, very positive story in Peru. And of course, here in the UK, we're having a lot of debate about such
The Leather Industry Debate
00:09:45
Speaker
things. um the The leader of the Green Party, Zach Polanski, is very vocal about, um he's really campaigning right at the moment for getting a vegan options to to be essential in in in in universities. and And I think workplaces, I might be misquoting him there, but things like council meetings, I think he's ah campaigning for. Yeah. Hooray for good news. Hooray for that. Let's go on to our next story. So we've got an article from Future Perfect. Now, I'm not aware of us going to Future Perfect for a story before, but this is about it's about beef, but more it's about leather. Now, I'll absolutely admit that I am somebody who has
00:10:37
Speaker
gone along with the idea that leather is awful, but a byproduct of the beef industry. And we've all met plenty of people who are like, well, you know, if it's going to be yeah just wasted, why not use it? But this Future Perfect article is really arguing how there's so much money in leather and it's not the case that it's just a wasted byproduct there. You know, this was really eye opening for me to to read about something. but To be honest, I hadn't really thought about, even as a vegan, even as a vegan, I was pretty, ah you know, i I don't go out and buy leather products, obviously as a vegan, but I was pretty, yeah hadn't considered this before. Mark, was this the kind of a thing of which you'd given contemplation before?
00:11:26
Speaker
ah Not as such, really. I think fur has always received a lion's share of the attention around the debate of wearing animal skins, which which is completely unjustified. Leather is just shaved fur, basically. you know it's it's it's It's the same product. So it it isn't it is interesting to see get its attention. And yes, I remember when I was growing up, a bit like milk was seen as being a very benign thing, that if you didn't milk the cows, that they would explode in the fields, right? Was the sort of general thinking, okay? So it was very good for the cows for them to be milked. I know people who would still say that, who don't know about artificial insemination. I know. Who don't know that cows aren't making milk if they're not...
00:12:11
Speaker
pregnant all the time you know having their babies taken away people who've just got no idea who just think yeah but look at their artists look at their artists it's bizarre and it's it was a similar with leather it always sort of it never had the spotlight shone on it it is enormously polluting and it's it's um the way it used to be processed was that it was sort of soaked in human urine for ages, you know, for days and days and beyond and stamped down and softened up and the whole really polluting all of the of the byproducts from the production of leather or from the tanning of leather are really heavy pollutants and are put into the water and pollute. Obviously, ah again, a bit like the dairy industry are responsible for so much waterway devastation and all that. So it is good to see it getting the attention it deserves. It's sort of about time, really.
00:13:03
Speaker
now that the sort of general consensus around stuff like even dairy now, I think people are generally aware that there's a question mark around it. It's time now to sort of highlight leather. Yeah, thank you, Mark. What were your thoughts, David, reading the article?
00:13:17
Speaker
Well, I mean, I echo what Mark said. that um yeah I think when we think about cattle farming, most people immediately think about beef or dairy. Leather often escapes scrutiny because it it's commonly described as a byproduct, as though the hides would simply go to waste if they weren't turned into shoes, bags and jackets. This article, the research, asked us rita us to reconsider that assumption.
00:13:42
Speaker
If leather has significant economic value, then it's not just leftover material. It's one of the products that makes cattle farming more profitable. That doesn't mean leather alone drives the industry, but it does mean consumer demand for leather contributes to keeping that industry economically viable.
00:14:01
Speaker
I also find it interesting how much influence the word natural has over our decisions. Many people instinctively assume that because leather comes from an animal, it must automatically be environmentally it must automatically be the environmentally responsible choice. Yet cattle farming is one of the largest contributors to greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation, water pollution and die aht biodiversity loss. Natural doesn't always mean sustainable.
00:14:31
Speaker
The discussion around vegan leather is also becoming much more nuanced. For years, critics have focused on polyurethane and plastic-based alternatives, but innovation has moved on considerably. Materials made from mycelium, cactus, pineapple leaves, apple waste and other plant fibres are beginning to challenge the idea that the only durable option comes from an animal.
00:14:54
Speaker
Perhaps the most important takeaway isn't that everyone should immediately replace every leather product they own. Instead it's a reminder to question the stories we're told about sustainability. Sometimes products are marketed as environmentally friendly simply because they've always been seen that way.
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's really, you know, we've had so many shows on our on our other like vegan talk about philosophies and ethics. And ah I remember when I, even before I went vegan, even before I went vegan, I made a decision that I wouldn't go anywhere near leather to the point of view, if somebody had a leather seat in a car, I wouldn't go in that car.
00:15:36
Speaker
I was like, really? Yeah, i was really like, and I thought, I mean, to be honest, I was just a bit of bit of a antisocial git. To be honest, it was like, you know, using my ethics as an excuse to like, yeah, I don't have to go to that party. you I don't actually want to go to anyway. But it was also that,
00:15:53
Speaker
I, you know, also as well as that, I got really, you know, as we all have, I got really sad thinking about the realities. And I thought, no, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna involve myself in it at all. And I'm making a point that people really think is hard, isn't it? Because I do go out in, as we all do, you go out into the non-vegan world and, there's certain things, you know, within your own home, your own circle that you can make choices over, but out in the wide world. I would now, I would get in a car with someone with leather seats, for sure, you know, but it's really, really hard. I really like this article and I really like being part this podcast because, as our regular listeners all know, we're not professing to be experts. We're just a group of people from around the planet
00:16:35
Speaker
who are vegan, who chat about stuff and sometimes get it right and sometimes get it wrong and sometimes have differing opinions. And that's great. I love that I've been presented with a new story. It's our contributor Shane from the US. Shane did all the research this week and brought Mark, David and me this story. And it gave me something of which I'd never heard.
00:16:57
Speaker
paid consideration before really. i And i like you said, Mark, I thought, yeah, you know, I've gone on that journey of realising that milk is not a harmless byproduct. And of course, I didn't think leather was a harmless byproduct, but just the amount of money there is, it's obvious when ah think about it. But yeah, it's it's it's changed my views, this article. Well, the did did the killer with leather, especially if if if you're living in somewhere as wet as the West of Ireland or Ireland generally, really, is shoes.
00:17:31
Speaker
right at Good, durable, non-animal-based shoes. And you're sort of left with... there there was it There was a tendency for some people to buy second-hand army boots, right?
00:17:42
Speaker
that were leather, but they're secondhand. and Then people would only wear Converse. For instance, I would sort of only wear Converse. And then I got my hands somehow on non-leather. I think someone had been to the Brighton shoe shop. the Oh, I know that one, yeah. Medellin shoes, right? Medellin shoes, up great job, right? But increasingly you can get, I mean, I've seen these handbags made out of mushroom leather.
00:18:03
Speaker
at the store a million they were amazing i mean they they were they were like a soft leather they were they were like a a calf's leather so you know it was amazing you know so um the technology has clearly advanced hugely it is good that that that they're getting away from plastic because plastic shoes For sure.
00:18:22
Speaker
Or particularly good for your feed or, to be honest, the environment either, you know, let' be let let's say be frank. So, yeah, so it is good. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing what the new generation of plant leather boots are like, for instance, you know. Yeah. But in the meantime, I just wear Converse everywhere I go for 99% of the time.
00:18:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, another solution is to be a scruffy git like i am who hasn't worn any formal shoes for about 10 years. You wouldn't catch me in a suit or anything vaguely smart for
Misconceptions in Animal Farming
00:18:56
Speaker
a person. for love nor money so uh yeah all right on to the next story and this is one that did not surprise me it's from plant-based news and it says that nearly 75 percent of british shoppers incorrectly think farmed chickens are ah no longer caged most british people wrongly believe that egg laying hens are ah no longer caged in the uk there's been this big poll and nearly three quarters of british shoppers uh having views that you know chickens are in far more spacious far more uh far less cruel conditions than they actually are you know the the the definition of a enriched colony cage is not what most people would think it is if people were
00:19:48
Speaker
more aware. it's it's it's It's an awful situation. What was your takeaway yeah having a look at this article, David? I found this article really interesting because I think we are deceived so often with what we're told goes on. um I think we're going to be discussing things later about um meat. um And we certainly had a horse meat scandal a while ago where We were told there was like you know that it was beef, but it was actually horse meat in it.
00:20:20
Speaker
Being vegan, we didn't have that, but it was obviously the scandal that hit. um So I think this is very similar to that. um And I think so most of us remember hearing that battery cages were banned years ago. But many people don't realize what many people don't realise is that they were largely replaced by enriched cages where hens still spend their lives confined with only a little more with only a little more space and a few added features.
00:20:48
Speaker
That raises an important question about transparency. If consumers genuinely believe caged systems no longer exist, can they really make informed choices when they go shopping? From a vegan perspective, this also highlights something bigger than the cage debate itself. Even if all hens were moved to free-range systems tomorrow, we'd still be asking whether it's right to breed animals for food, selectively breed them to lay far more eggs than their wild ancestors, and eventually slaughter them once no longer productive.
00:21:21
Speaker
Welfare improvements matter enormously, but they don't necessarily answer the underlying ethical question. The story also reminds us how powerful public perception can be. If people think a problem has already been solved, there is far less pressure for governments in and industries to continue improving. Sometimes raising awareness is the first steps towards meaningful change.
00:21:45
Speaker
It's something that we've talked about so often on this show, people's thoughts of, you know, what happens to male chicks? You know, what is, yeah. What what do you think? If listeners go online and just type in,
00:22:01
Speaker
This rather obnoxious term, what is it? Enriched colony systems, right? Enriched colony systems is is what, as you were saying, replace the battery cage system. And all and all it seems to be when you when you look at Google images of this is the battery system with some of the internal caging sort of taken out, but this sort of superstructure of it left. So it's it's a slightly bigger...
00:22:24
Speaker
battery version of the the older system. And I think people have had this notion that everything is free range and they're out in lush fields of grass, in this in the sunshine, in the open air, and sort of wandering around. how Hardly any of them are. So I think there's there's this it enriched colony system, there's barn raised eggs, which again are just tens of thousands of chickens in a massive airport hangar type of barn.
00:22:52
Speaker
So things so it's it's almost that one huge sort of battery system. Yeah, people are very unaware of the cruelty that that that we inflict on chickens. And I think we've covered it before where where we where where we've looked at at the rate of animal consumption and for every other animal it's either staying the same or going down a bit for chickens it's gone right up i mean it's i think people these days eat six times more chickens than previous generations even a couple of decades ago so chickens the chicken animal has borne the brunt of
00:23:23
Speaker
the factory farm system, I think, for decades now, and it's only going ah worse for them. So it is interesting to to see this information and to see how ill-informed people are and how this is the flip side of the coin, the way the the farming industry is always is is always insisting on the vegan products to taking the word sausage or burger off their labels because it's misinforming that or it's misleading the public. They are par excellence at ah at misleading the public. And they're very happy for most British shoppers to think that the eggs they're buying are coming from sort free ranging chickens when the reality is they're they're all caged as much as they ever were. Very much so. The VIVA study to which we're referring claims that when ah they explained exactly what the terms mean and they showed people the images, 94% of the folks in the study then said that the practice was unacceptable. So that's the impact of giving people the accurate information. And, you know, we're so often accused of vegan propaganda, like, oh, you with your, you know, one sided views. And it's like, but if you look at an image, and it's showing what it is, you know, your eyes don't deceive you, it is what it is it is what it is it's not vegan propaganda it's cruelty it's wrong and there's another way and well done everyone for listening into this because we're all folks who would like another way i think that's safe to say uh thank you mark and thank you david for chatting about those last two stories i want to remind everybody listening to the show that they can read the show mark do you want to tell us a little bit more about that yeah if you head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan Any show you click on will have a written transcript beneath it. Bear in mind these transcripts are ai generated so they they won't be 100% accurate. But nevertheless, we they make our shows more accessible. we're delighted that they're available to anyone who's interested. in consuming the content that way. Spotify also normally has auto-generated captions when playing the show within their app.
00:25:35
Speaker
Thank you, Mark. Now, David mentioned the horse meat scandal when you were chatting about the chicken story. Well, BBC News are talking about kebabs.
Mislabeling in the Meat Industry
00:25:50
Speaker
I remember ah having a friend who was farmer, who was trying to convince me as a vegan that I wasn't up to speed with how very, very ethical farms were. And I thought, be open-minded, be open-minded, you know. And on the same ah time as this this conversation, e he ordered himself a kebab. like, you're choosing the worst of the worst. You're choosing the worst of the worst. A kebab, a kebab.
00:26:19
Speaker
I'm saying worst of the worst. I think some people aren't aware of what kebabs actually are. ah The BBC story says millions of takeaway donna kebab lovers probably don't realise the meat itself.
00:26:33
Speaker
isn't what they think it is. ah It is often fat, skin and goat. So there's been loads of studies, you know, looking at what is meant to be 70% lamb that are actually less than 10% sheep.
00:26:51
Speaker
David, this is all pretty shocking, isn't it? Yes, it really is. So yeah, for us, um yeah this story highlights the disconnect but between consumers and the food system. Most people never see how processed meat products are made or where the ingredients come from.
00:27:09
Speaker
That distance can make it much easier for fraud or poor transparency to occur. It's interesting that many online reactions were along the lines of, it's only a kebab, what did people expect?
00:27:23
Speaker
But I think that misses the point. The issue isn't whether kebabs are healthy or high quality. It's whether companies should be allowed to sell one thing while knowingly supplying something else.
00:27:33
Speaker
yeah The other case also reminds us that highly processed animal products often involve complex supply chains that can be difficult to trace. Whether someone eats meat or not, transparency should matter to everyone, and consumers deserve to know what they're paying for, whether that be goat or horrible skin.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um Mark, you aren't currently living in the UK. It's, um yeah, kebabs are just as popular here as they have ever been. Are kebabs a big thing with you? you know, i um I've never, ever eaten a kebab, right? So I gave meat when I was about 13 and kebabs hadn't really sort of...
00:28:14
Speaker
ah made inroads into the into the very limited Irish cuisine, you know, and stuff, availabl so I've never eaten one. Obviously, I've seen them. They're very prominent in lots of fish and chip chops whatever on their, whatever you call that steak that they're wrapped around and the guy with the big machete sort of carving bits off.
00:28:32
Speaker
It's really like out of a torture movie, isn't it? oh its it's It's really grotesque. It's really sort of Ed Gein sort of stuff. So it's it's all been very visible and it sort of spins around slowly, doesn't And sort of sizzles and there's a smell of it and it just looks so processed. I've never given it much thought, but when when you when you sort of look at it, it's so processed looking that I'm not surprised that it's it's a very un- I mean, it's not even meat, is it? like meat the The definition of meat is muscle of an animal, right?
00:29:03
Speaker
It's animal muscle. This stuff, it just seems to be the eyelids, yes skin, you know, at and anything but the meat. So it's not even meat. I mean, i wonder what the attraction is. and so it Like it says a bit for ah further on in this article, it says, and I've writes, so they were fined $500,000.
00:29:24
Speaker
po yes after admitting to fraud, they they were estimated to have made 6 million from the fraud. So the fine isn't really sort of touching the sides there, is it? It's not really an incentive to to not do this, is it? You know, there's loads of money to to be to be made and im the fine in comparison is paltry. And it's stuff like here, there's DNA testing. reveal but There were 70% lamb who were actually saw showing less than 10% sheep. So when they say 70% lamb, it is literally bits of the lamb's body that aren't the meat, but are part of a lamb. So, you you know, I wonder, it's it's it's it's a bizarre, it's like a very bizarre product, but it it probably isn't going to have much of an impact on sales. And the impact that it does have will probably be short-lived.
00:30:07
Speaker
Just the same as what David was i mentioning a while ago, but the horse meat scandal, when people realized that the beef burgers they were eating, think it was burgers, were was actually horses. And horses have quite a celebrated status in yeah European society, a bit like cats and dogs.
00:30:25
Speaker
And it didn't really seem to be the scandal it should have been. I mean, it it it was in the it was in the papers for a little while, and there were some people that were talking about it, and it was people like us. But really, in terms of the the impact that it had on the consumer, it just seemed to sort of come and go. And you sort of wonder, if wanted I mean, if if they found out that the burgers they were eating were were made out of cats and dogs, which have an even more elevated status, in ah particularly in British society,
00:30:50
Speaker
I wonder if that would have an impact on sales, but I'd ah'd be prepared to think that it wouldn't really because the horse meat thing didn't. And oh ah i wonder if this thing thing will, you know? I don't know.
00:31:03
Speaker
i think one of the differences between the horse meats in burgers that are out of a freezer in a supermarket and the kebabs is... is, says Dominic, as he is about to go into a hugely judgmental tirade. I don't know. They're associated with alcohol, aren't they? They're associated with a certain element of destructive behavior. think it's fair to say that if you go out on a night out and get really, really, really, really drunk to the degree where you're like, whee! then maybe ah nutrition and ethics might not be the forefront of your considerations. Perhaps I think there's a certain element of good. And I think that's different to something that, the I mean, you're right. like the The scandal of the horse meat and the burgers wasn't as great as
00:31:50
Speaker
one would have thought it could have been. And I think that in many ways, this will be even less so because of the the difference of going to a shop and bringing something into your home. and i mean so I think a lot of people have a very who have a very split approach to what they do on a night out and what they bring into their home. I think there's a split approach there.
00:32:12
Speaker
Well, it seems to be because it says here in the article that one lamb donut kebab that the government agency tested that claimed to contain 87% lamb was found be 40% animal fat.
00:32:25
Speaker
40% animal fat from any animal, whether it's coming from the animal but they say it's coming from, it's practically a bar of soap, basically. You know, I never realized it was that unhealthy. It's like it's like smoking cigarettes or something. It's just pure stodge. I mean, it's not meat. It's just the gristle and scrapings of these poor animals, you know, and fat.
00:32:47
Speaker
else Yeah, it sounds awful. I mean, as I say, I've never tried one, so I have no buy-in or memory or association with them other than seeing them from from time to time. Yeah, I'm the same, actually. I went vegetarian when I was about 10. And David, you were quite young when you went. David and I ah separately, yeah you know, in our separate paths, both went veggie as kids. So have you ever had a kebab, meat kebab?
00:33:13
Speaker
No, I've never had a meat come up. I stopped eating meat when I was 14. So yeah, I've never had the benefit of trying one, thankfully. I never want to either. I think they look disgusting. And I think if i meat, I wouldn't want to eat one. They just look so unappetizing. and They smell awful.
00:33:33
Speaker
And i think what they do to humans is awful. On the insides, I don't think there's any nutritional value there at all. I think it is, you could literally pick up a bowl of lard and that probably has more. That's what I was thinking of. There was there was a product that was really fashionable among some people in Ireland when I was growing up called Dripping.
00:33:54
Speaker
Do you remember dropping off? Which is just beef fat or chicken fat or something like this that is solidified. It's saturated fat in a block that would be used to be eaten raw or put on bread or fried up again. And, you know, it's it's like this. ah Dominic, have you ever eaten a kebab? Never.
00:34:12
Speaker
So we have three people. Three people who've never eaten. Okay, right, right. so so so they so they So they didn't become popular in Britain until after you guys went vegetarian. Well, I think because we were kids. because we were kids. that Okay. It's more of a drunken night out thing then. It's i think rather than yeah something you, okay. Yeah. Okay.
00:34:29
Speaker
Well, um, in an upcoming story, we will perhaps suggest a video that you might want to show somebody who might be interested in having a kebab, something that might possibly dissuade them from doing so.
00:34:44
Speaker
Who knows? But before we go onto that, I just want to remind listeners that if they're interested uh, reading about these stories, we provide direct links to them all on social media.
00:34:55
Speaker
That's right, Dominic. So we have at enough of the falafel on Facebook and Instagram. That's the handle at and then enough of the falafel. Each of the stories we cover goes up on our account.
00:35:08
Speaker
If you follow us, you'll get these stories in your feed too. Social media is also a really easy, quick way to contact us. Shane manages our social media and loves hearing from you all.
00:35:20
Speaker
ah Shane is an absolute legend. We are lucky to have Shane. We are lucky to have Shane. And we're lucky to have a link to a really shocking music video. It's certainly not something by Take That or, or ah you know, ah The Boyzones. It's not that. We've got ah Bring Me The Horizon. Now, those of you who listen regularly, we've got a great guy called Paul, who's one of our regular contributors. And Paul is well up on all of the vegan bans and I imagine that Paul has heard of Bring Me The Horizon. Paul may have played me a song by Bring Me The Horizon ah before. I said that this might be something that you might want to play someone to discourage them from eating kebabs or indeed any kind of meat. I don't know, David, do you want to say a little bit about what this, what's the song called, David?
Music as a Medium for Animal Rights
00:36:19
Speaker
The song's called Dehumanised. When you play the video, you get a little disclaimer, and I think that really underestimates what, yeah, it doesn't give you any idea of what this video is about. It's really shocking, and it's designed to be that way. um It is designed for shock value, but the lyrics are as well. um It is a difficult song to listen to, not just because of its heaviness, but because it deliberately forces us to confront ideas that many of us would rather avoid.
00:36:52
Speaker
The opening lines place us as the listener in the position of the animal. You were born to suffer. You were born, you were bred to bleed. and Instead of describing farming from the outside, the lyrics ask us to imagine what life might feel like for an individual who exists solely to become a product. So that would be for us to become food.
00:37:14
Speaker
And that shift is that shift in perspective is incredibly powerful. ah What stood out to me was the repeated use of the word dehumanized. At first glance it sounds as though it's referring to the animals, but as the song develops I think it's actually asking a different question.
00:37:33
Speaker
What happens to us when we become comfortable with suffering? The line for empathy is hearsay really struck me. It suggests that some showing compassion has become something to ridicule or suppress rather than something to celebrate. um As a vegan, I don't hear this song as saying that people who eat animals are evil. I hear it asking whether we've normalized practices that most of us would instinctively reject if they were happening to humans, dogs or cats.
00:38:03
Speaker
If we recoil at unnecessary suffering in one context, why do we so often accept it in another? Whether or not someone agrees with the song's message, I think it raises an important challenge.
00:38:15
Speaker
how much of our behaviour is based on habit, culture and tradition rather than consciously chosen values. Yeah, yeah. I think we spent a lot of time on this show talking about the best way to talk about veganism.
00:38:31
Speaker
And i think that this song is... in its sound and its hugely graphic imagery, going to be too much for some people. Like, you know, the author Stephen King says, if you lose people, you're not writing a horror story, you're not writing anything. If they just turn off because it's too much for them, then you've lost. If there's no communication, no connection, then what's the point? And that's what we want as veganisms. We don't want to be so gentle, gentle that we're not saying anything. but We don't want to be so shocking that ah we... we
00:39:04
Speaker
fail to engage. I know a whole load of meat-eating, heavy rock, heavy metal fans for whom this would be great to play for them. I think this is, this is you know, there are some people, myself included, who find it a bit like, oh, goodness me, it's ah it says you know it's it's intense, it's intense. But I definitely think I can think of meat-eating rock fans who, if I played them this,
00:39:33
Speaker
this would be the perfect thing to really to really engage them. What was your take when you watched ah Bring Me the Horizon, Mark? I thought that if my dad heard this, the first thing he would say is that it sounds like wild dogs barking.
00:39:48
Speaker
And he'd be sort of right, actually, in this case. ah I never heard ah Bring Me the Horizon. I've heard of them. I assumed they were American. I assumed they sounded something like that, that like the new metal sort of. And on paper, I should like this stuff. I do like that presentation, that delivery. And when the sonic delivery matches the lyrical intensity, like anarcho punk and stuff like this. But I've always found found new metal to be a bit um overproduced perhaps. But you know, ah first of all, the guys, there I've i' looked them up, the the singer at least in this band who wrote the lyrics to the song is obviously, i suppose, a staunch vegan. And it is good to see that information being ah carried into the metal genre because it isn't known for its
00:40:37
Speaker
politics generally at all progressive or otherwise i mean there are niches of metal that that are extreme on either side but gen the general heavy metal fan and i was one myself and i'm not saying this with any i'm not saying this as in a condemnatory way but they tend not to be political or to think beyond the sort of heaviness of the music or the the gory lyrics like Slayer or something like this. So it is see good going to see a band with the message sort of carrying this into um the lives of people who may not otherwise have thought about it in this way in particularly as well. It is full on, it is gory, it's going to detract some people, it's going to appeal to some people. There's room for this sort of presentation of the message because um some people need to have it presented them.
00:41:23
Speaker
in this way. at Most don't, I would say, but most people aren't going to listen to this sort music anyway. The sort of people who do will be swayed by presentations like this. They like that sort of lyrics. And if if it means something beyond the sort of poetic goriness of it, then brilliant.
00:41:42
Speaker
And if it changes their lives, brilliant. I think there is the potential for that. And I mean, I haven't heard of Bring Me Horizon to my knowledge before this show, but um yeah, Ollie Sykes, you know, ah the the singer. That's him, yeah. According to his Wikipedia page, so it must be true because it's on Wikipedia. um I mean, he's done more ah in the name of veganism. He's from Sheffield and he's opened a vegan bar and restaurant in Sheffield. So, I mean, that's using the ah sway that his fame as you know and his money has brought him. He's also founded ah a clothing company. He's got drop dead clothing. So, you know, he really sounds great. very very committed i mean i'm always always like a little bit hesitant when you hear about so-called celebrities all right guess what i've gone vegan i think oh is this gonna be um you know su god when they yeah when they uh yeah yeah it's a six month fad and they they drop out and it just makes everybody think yeah yeah it's not really serious is it
00:42:49
Speaker
who's, you know, ah yeah, but according to this, he became veggie at the age of 16, you know, and it was stuff like, a you know, Peter, deck their theirre campaigns that, ah you know, got him to go ah to to you know go on the path that he's been on. So, yeah, what an interesting thing. As I say, I think this is a specific thing for a specific audience.
00:43:13
Speaker
I'm not the target audience. If i you know, back in my meat eating days, back in my vegetarian pre-vegan days, I wouldn't have been the target audience. I'm too much of a wet blanket to watch anything like this. It's far, far too scary and far, far too noisy for me. But i really admire, I really admire what what they're doing. You know, what a person of integrity. He's clearly a passionate artist with deep feelings, deep politics. And, you know, putting his money and influence, power where is where his mouth is. You know, good for him. Yeah. All right. So that is our final story for the week. My goodness, the show has flown by. ah Thank you, Mark. And thank you, David, for chatting about that. And thank you for being on the story today. As much as we love Mark and David, perhaps our listeners have disagreed with something they've said or, and this is far less likely, disagreed with something that I've said. Yeah. Or maybe we've missed something altogether. Or maybe you just want to tell us how great we all are.
00:44:17
Speaker
Or give us ideas for future shows. Please do get in touch. We love correspondence. It's always a joy to hear from our listeners. Emailing is one way you can get in touch. Mark, what is our email address? The email address is enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. That's all one word, enough of the falafel. and we need we read and respond to each and every email that we receive and we will feature them on our mailbag shows unless you ask us not to. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And there are other ways you can help with our show as well. Now, I've given this particular aspect of what we do a plug so many times. And yeah, I'm going to doubt myself that I'm saying it right. I think it's Co-Fi. Co-Fi, yeah. Is it Co-Fi or is it Co-Fee? No, it's Co-Fi.
00:45:11
Speaker
All right, let let's stick with that. KO-5. What this is, people might want to fund us. It lets us get better equipment. You know, we don't have any marketing budget, nothing like that. So ah I would encourage you to have a think about, you know, if you're in a position to maybe supporting us. so You can donate as little as one a pound a month.
00:45:36
Speaker
And yeah, our Co-5. is co-fi.com forward slash enough of the falafel.
00:45:47
Speaker
ah Yeah, that's right. You can rate us and or leave a review on your podcast player. You can subscribe to the show, which tells your podcast player that we're great, that we're a great show because we are, as well as giving you alerts when the new episodes drop.
00:46:02
Speaker
um and you could spread the word by telling everyone you know about the show and or share it online. Thanks everyone for listening. The next episode of Enough of the Falafel will be coming out, i Vegan Talk, and will be available from the 16th of July, and it will feature David, Dominic, and Kate, and they will be reviewing the short film A world without cows. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks to Dominic and Mark for your contributions. Thanks every one of you out there for listening. We appreciate you. I've been David and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:46:41
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:46:56
Speaker
And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:47:22
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:47:43
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:47:58
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.