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298- "Today is the day I go vegan!" Going Vegan: David's story
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No news this week; we're on holiday! Instead however, we have a brilliant new release, namely the story of our wonderful David with regards to vegetarianism & more recently, going vegan! The Going Vegan series shines a spotlight on the huge variety of everyday normal folk who choose to avoid animal expoitation through choosing a vegan lifestyle; for previous Going Vegan episodes (there's about 20 of them), scroll back in your podcast player.
We'll be back with more vegan news next week!
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights, as well as picking a 'timeless' vegan or animal rights issue, and discussing it in more depth.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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David & Anthony
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Transcript
Introduction to David and the Going Vegan Show
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, my name's David, and you're listening to the Going Vegan Show. I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! broachy take your flat grown meat elsewhere we're not doing that in the state of florida should i call the medium say hi sorry true education younger generation are getting know how brutal these practices are that leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems i think what this what kind of movie is this it's comedy gold maybe any form of social injustice has
00:00:38
Speaker
As long as you donna get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:47
Speaker
cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision.
Recording Frequency and 'Veganuary'
00:00:51
Speaker
Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of the Going Vegan set Show. I say another episode, we've not done one of these for a little while. Normally January is our busiest time of the year for going vegan shows.
00:01:03
Speaker
I guess because that's the time of year when a lot of people come to veganism through veganuary. But if we have opportunities to sprinkle some of these shows in throughout the rest of the year, we like to, we are taking our biannual, I think that's the right phrase, every six months or so, twice a year, biannual break. Listeners, you can email in if I'm using that phrase incorrectly. ah where we take a couple weeks of sort of live recordings and we give you some fresh stuff that we've recorded a bit earlier in the year but new stuff all the same I'm delighted to have David with me regular listeners you might know David because he's been on the show a good half a dozen times now and it's absolutely fab addition to us but we've not recorded a going vegan
Personal Journeys to Veganism
00:01:53
Speaker
episode yet. If you've not listened to one of these before, the general premise is we have a sit down, a chat with somebody about their journey towards veganism. We take it back as far as we can and and think, what could the first signs have possibly been? and then ah And then trail it through to the present. day because everyone's journey is different and it's good to hear from different people. You've heard quite a lot of my voice now so it's time for me to be quiet to say thank you again David for joining us and David how far back can you detect the first signs that veganism, vegetarianism, animal rights, avoiding pain and suffering to animals in your lifestyle, what what's the furthest back you can take that?
Childhood Experiences and Animal Welfare
00:02:39
Speaker
Oh, well, I mean, gosh, there's so many things. I'd definitely go right back to childhood, but I could probably go back to when I was two. Oh, yes, two. That was the very first, ah I think, recognition of caring for another animal, I think. and We had a ah budgie called Budgie, really originally named.
00:03:02
Speaker
I remember being very sad when Budgie passed away and just really caring what happened to, i believe he was a him. But um yeah, I just really worried about him. And I think that's the predominant memory. And around that time we had dogs as well. So i was very, yeah loved by dogs. I felt very um appreciated by them and I felt like a great deal of empathy for them when they were sick. I felt a lot for them.
00:03:31
Speaker
So i think that's where my sort of awareness of love for animals came from. And I mean, there are many instances that I could, I might come back to, but certainly through those early years, the dogs were a dominant feature in my life. I I guess I didn't have the best and most loving upbringing. So the dogs were very much um a key part to where I connected, where I felt love and unconditional love in return. So I felt that I had to do everything to protect the dogs and look after them.
Early Activism with Anti-Vivisection
00:04:08
Speaker
but other As I grew up and then one of them, um I think I was about 11, and he was an Irish wolfhound called Caan and he sadly got really sick.
00:04:19
Speaker
The night before he passed away, he was howling out and I was the only one in the house to get up to him and I sat down with him at school the next day and I sat down with him and I was obviously really sad and um just like wanting to be with him because every time, when I tried going to bed, he was howling away. He really didn't want to be on his own. He obviously knew it was his last night on earth.
00:04:42
Speaker
And I'm really glad that I spent that with him. um ah went to school the next day, he came home and it sadly passed away. And that got me into thinking of what I could do more to help other animals around the world. um And I started looking into things and there wasn't the internet back then. This is like the late 80s. So there wasn't the internet. So I didn't have the access that everybody else does these days with looking up um organizations and that it was just,
00:05:14
Speaker
adverts in magazines i think i had a transformers magazine but strangely enough it was for um an anti-vivisection organization called that i don't know if they're around still but they are the buav and i signed up to join them like not to not to be an activist obviously at the age of 11 12 you know i couldn't do that but um that was my first sort of getting involved with another organization and learning even more about what harm does come to animals and what they did. I got monthly magazines and things like that and obviously um horrific images and things of cosmetics being tested on animals.
00:05:54
Speaker
So my first thing that I did, i was still a meat eater at this point, but I stopped buying anything that was that I knew was tested on animals. And that was my my thing to do. So I was very militant in everything that I had access to. Obviously, i didn't have my own money. So it was like... um ah pocket money, you know, whatever I could buy. I would ask my parents um for things that weren't tested on animals and and that was kind of it.
00:06:25
Speaker
Then I started thinking of doing even more and what I could do more and i did an English project um where it was looking into animal
Turning Point: Quitting Meat
00:06:35
Speaker
cruelty. So by this point I was 14. and I watched this video in English this is what i was doing the the presentation on basically and i did It put me off meat, it really did, because it was it was basically a about an abattoir and what happened cows. And I hadn't watched the video, and bear in mind it was VHS as well, but yeah I hadn't watched it. It was really shocking. um i was allowed to play. I don't remember being stopped by the teacher either, but it was really shocking.
00:07:08
Speaker
And I just thought, you know, I really don't want to eat meat anymore. Can i ask about the context of of that then? So had you chosen to do it on that specific video or was that something that everyone was doing? It seems like a really strong bit of stimulus material there. Yeah, I don't remember too much about what led up to it, but off off the top of my head, I think I chose that video. I don't know where I got it from.
00:07:37
Speaker
i don't know whether it was from the library or whether it was from another adult, you know, connected to my family or something like that. I know I hadn't watched it, but it certainly wasn't something that everybody was doing because we all had um individual projects and mine was...
00:07:53
Speaker
Mine was about animal cruelty, so you know that's what I'd chosen and what I'd written about, but I really don't remember where that video came from. um I just remember the contents, I guess. you know I mean, it's so long ago. I'm 50 now, so it's so long while I can remember being two, I do struggle with something.
00:08:16
Speaker
But yeah, i so it just was a very shocking... I mean, you can imagine the things that are on a video of um you know anything to do with abattoirs and how we cows are...
00:08:28
Speaker
you know, lined up and everything else. It's it's horrific. um But it yeah, it put me off. And my my best friend, Simon, um ah school, we we both decided, yeah, we're going to go vegetarian.
Vegetarian Challenges in the 1990s
00:08:42
Speaker
Vegan wasn't really known about. I don't remember knowing about that term. And if it was, it was very much just an apple and a bit of broccoli. That's all that would been in the diet back then. So, I mean, even being vegetarian was quite hard because there weren't, corn wasn't a thing, you know, there wasn't the substitutes that there are now. um
00:09:03
Speaker
But I still chose to do it. um And I had moved out at this point, so I was actually staying with another good friend of mine and his mum. And she was really adaptive and really flexible with my choices. She didn't say, oh, you have to have meat or anything like that. um And I actually remember, so despite not remembering the video like where I got it from, my last bit of meat ever eaten, knowingly, was on the 1st of January, 1991, and it was a bit of meat at eight o'clock at night, a bit of beef. um so strangely that stuck with me. It was a New Year's resolution. i thought I'm better at sticking with something like that.
00:09:51
Speaker
I guess knowing what I do now with having autism, it makes sense that I do things like that, that my sort of having ah an acute sense of order, that I do things at the beginning of something. So like the January is a thing that people have obviously, where it's like the start of a year, let's start a new life or whatever in in a similar way. That's what it was like for me of being the first of January, being the last day that I had to any meet. So people didn't believe I would stick to it.
00:10:22
Speaker
I mean, i think that would make sense to a lot of people in terms of even if it's not the first day of a new calendar year or what have you. It's going to depend on your reasons coming towards it, but seeing as it is quite a significant change and for for most people when they decide to become vegetarian or vegan, like having a firm like right from this point onwards, it's a it's a thing because it it is an undertaking isn't it we can say all we like oh it's easy you know you get you get used to it or actually it's been a lot easier than i i thought that you know that's rhetoric that we hear from a lot of people it is a significant change so kind of having that firm date when this starts can quite help i think yeah yeah i agree and it definitely helped me to do that so yes that definitely uh yes i agree with that anthony thought
00:11:20
Speaker
having that fixed date and even that day i knew was gonna be the last one that really did
Adapting to Vegetarianism
00:11:25
Speaker
help. And I mean, I i never looked back from it to be fair. it's I think the only thing that I really missed maybe in the first couple of years was bacon. But other vegetarian peers that I knew ah all said the same thing, that bacon was the thing that they missed in the first few years. But other than that, it wasn't really anything.
00:11:47
Speaker
I don't remember missing anything. And for me, being obviously 14, I wasn't at the time. I didn't have a wage. I didn't have my own source of money. So I did have to rely on... my guardian as she became um at the time and you know I was very lucky to have that because not a lot of people do. and you know um So yeah, but when I was 16, so two years later, when i when I first got my wage, it was a lot easier to be able to choose my own foods. I didn't have to rely on, I can't even remember her name now actually, but but yeah, i didn't I didn't have to rely on anybody else getting my own stuff. So yeah,
00:12:27
Speaker
it was it was fairly easy i think there there was things like vegetarian lasagnas and things like that so you know it was fairly easy to sustain and the further i got into it the more i just thought i could never go back and the less that i identified with meat products as food i just you know the smell it just ended up being the opposite instead of making my stomach grumble because I was hungry. It was like off-putting and actually the smell of anything like kebabs and stuff. It's like awful. It became awful.
00:12:59
Speaker
I am lucky enough to have never ever had a kebab because I was so young when I went vegetarian. So it's not something that I missed. yeah It was just bacon. That was it for the first few years. But...
00:13:11
Speaker
You know, to go back to being the 1st of January, really that really did, it helped cement it in. So I think that first bit was really easy. I don't think, even though there wasn't the supplements and, you know, the various different kinds of foods there are now, I didn't miss that. ah Oh, sorry, I didn't... um notice I didn't think oh I need that or I need this or I wish there was a vegetarian version of anything it was there was like as I say a vegetable lasagna or a vegetable quiche and things so I could have those things I think if I'd chosen to be vegan I might have found that a lot harder back then if I'd known that because I mean vegans were also more stigmatized than they are now because it was just seen as apple and a bit of broccoli how can you sustain yourself and
00:14:03
Speaker
Vegans were also seen as being very unhealthy back then, you know, with, you know, lots of, you know, humour poked at people, you know. I mean, i I remember a food tech teacher in like the mid 90s categorically saying to us in school, you can be healthy as a vegetarian, but as a vegan, like you can't, you you need to have milk, you need to have eggs.
00:14:27
Speaker
kind of the worst kind of teacher to say that really because you they they carry some authority over food nutrition and things like that but i think that was a a prevailing belief be interesting to know how much of a belief that would be of food tech teachers in 2026 when we're recording this probably still some might might might think it's unhealthy to be vegan but i imagine there probably is some you know yeah Yeah, but I mean, yeah, that was certainly the view of a lot of people back then was that. And I mean, I guess even mine, because I didn't have access to the internet, my peers were mostly meat eaters. I didn't have a large group of friends or anything like that. So I guess I held that belief too for a while. It's why I'm much later in my vegan journey. I started vegetarian. That's what I've been predominantly for most of my life.
00:15:19
Speaker
i did um I wasn't a staunch vegetarian. while i did well While I didn't have any meat, I didn't go and have like beef burgers or anything like that. My one weakness and downfall was Haribo.
00:15:34
Speaker
Oh yeah, right. did Like the jelly swipes, StarMix particularly. yes And that had gelatin in And obviously, if people know, gelatin is ah a meat product. or it's like I don't know how it's made, and I'm i'm not, you know, it's awful. It does come from animals. And that was my one thing of like, every now and then, if I really needed it, if I'd had a really bad day, you know, it was like, I'll go for that. Yes. Well, I mean, there's this, I think you're, you're not alone there. I've, I've been, this is not about me um stereotyping vegetarians as being weak willed or anything like that. This is just a personal anecdote, but I've been. in and amongst a group of people, a large proportion of whom were vegetarian, um who were all toasting non-vegetarian marshmallows at the time. And this was when I was vegan and and just being enraged. I just had to walk away because
00:16:31
Speaker
Even though I was vegan, like I still felt a kinship with a group of people who are deliberately avoiding animal use. But I think with those things that are not as visible in terms of the the death that is that that they are dependent on, you know, like Gelatin is dependent on animal death, isn't it? But it's not visible. It's not as visceral probably for almost everyone. I i would have thought, you know, that a shoe's meat, you're not necessarily going to have the same visceral reaction to gelatin or, but probably
00:17:11
Speaker
I don't know, like leather is probably more evocative, isn't it? In that in in that you know it's the skin. Yeah, I agree. And I mean, that's that's a good point, I think, because, yeah, because it's hidden in the jelly suite, for example, the gelatin.
00:17:27
Speaker
I think that's a lot easier in my own mind when I was making that decision while I did know it was an animal product. um because it wasn't in the same way as this is beef, it comes from a cow. you know And because it's named something different, it's like, I think i that's how I justified in my mind. Things with leather, I did try very much to avoid. But again, back in the 90s, there wasn't the... um there wasn't the products, there weren't the you know the um alternatives to leather back then as much. So it was a lot harder to buy shoes, especially like, you know, for my guardian when she was going out and I needed shoes for school and things. So again, it had to be leather. So there were compromises that had to be, otherwise it would have gone without. There were times where, you know,
00:18:17
Speaker
I had autistic meltdowns of just being, I can't do that, i've got to i can't wear shoes have got leather because of just being uber sensitive to it and knowing that it's the skin of an animal. um And I guess you know i have mellowed out a bit with things, you know i do accept the way of the world sometimes, but I try and make the difference that I do in a little way, you know. And again, as like products have moved forward, I've changed from Jelly Sweet, you know, from Haribo if I really want. There's now Candy Kittens, which are plant-based and everything else. So it's a much better world in terms of alternatives. but um
00:18:56
Speaker
you do need those You do need those alternatives to be there, don't you? I i i know that there are very strong-willed individuals who will who will just go without something or will find a catalogue of someone in Venezuela that's making these things and write to them and blah, blah, blah. But I'd i'd say the the vast majority of us...
00:19:19
Speaker
like living in the world that we do, that actually you do need a little bit of help in terms of, oh, this thing is available now, or someone has written the ingredients on the back of the packet. I mean, that's something that we can take for granted in 2026, isn't it? In terms of labeling, allergens, obviously veganism isn't an allergy, but you know there are common allergens that are highlighted to us that weren't not so long ago it all just all can just make the difference with those small things sometimes can't it yeah exactly i think yeah i mean the things with ingredients and yeah i mean the fact that everything is highlighted allergens are highlighted but you know
00:19:59
Speaker
when i think i think when you go to a supermarket and you go to a free-from-isle, like go to Tesco or Morrisons or something, you go to ah a free-from-isle, it's really good to go like and read and see what is highlighted, whether it's got wheat for allergens, but obviously they usually highlight milk, which is generally for allergens, but the fact they highlight it is really good for knowing whether something has milk or eggs or dairy products, you know if you eat a plant-based diet. So,
00:20:28
Speaker
it's really good that we've got that now but you know maybe going back to around the pandemic maybe 2020 I think it wasn't as much then you know I mean I was still vegetarian back in the pandemic but I think things have moved so far forward now just in those five years I think um And I mean, you know, I certainly rely a lot um on on the ingredients, on the back of the packets. I think like most people, it's like, you know, and the fact it's highlighted does make it easier to be able to speed read. But, you know, go back like five years or so and the ingredients where things weren't highlighted as much and it was like reading and you happen to write try and be fast because otherwise, you you know, you've only got so much time to go shopping, haven't you? So it's like...
00:21:16
Speaker
reading a packet on, I don't know, a packet of cakes to see whether it is vegan and what's in it and all of that, it would take you half an hour. Now, at least, it's in bold, you know, and it helps me. I mean, I have to wear glasses to read, but I'm quite lazy. don't put them on. So having it highlighted makes it a lot easier when I'm in the supermarket, just pick it up and I'll let them do it. Right, know that's all right. you know, it hasn't got milk or look for the milk, eggs, etc. And it was a lot easier. And I do remember early conversations with being vegetarian when alternatives like corn first came out and the corn sausages and sort of along that Linda McCartney, all those ranges, they sort came out together.
00:22:03
Speaker
And I do remember meat eaters saying, well, if you're going to eat a a ah ah vegetarian sausage, why don't you just have a normal sausage then? As though like it was like they were just blind to thinking that sausage meant meat. a like you know but I like it. That's why I eat i don't have a vegetarian or yeah I don't have a plant-based sausage because it reminds me of a sausage like made from a pig.
00:22:28
Speaker
It's like I like it. it's like It's got the nutrition in that I need and I like the flavor of it. And to be fair, yes, I want to join in. yeah Having autism, I've been excluded so much. So but obviously with food, yeah if you're having your sausage, chips and beans, I kind of want that as well. But my version of it, there's more farming than It's a little bit like saying, well, if you like Grand Theft Auto and playing video games where you steal cars and punch people, like, why don't you just do it in real life? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's exactly like that. Yeah, exactly. It's just, yeah, it makes no sense really.
00:23:04
Speaker
Yeah. it's it's I guess it's what people have in in their in their mind, isn't it? It's their idea of what a sausage or a burger actually is, whereas no, it's just a name, isn't it? yeah We to have a form base to it. but Yeah, I think a lot of the time it's just someone saying the first thing that pops into their head because they're feeling a bit awkward or they're in a new situation, they they don't quite know how to react. to it we've we've We've spoken a lot about vegetarianism and there are lots and lots of parallels about going vegetarian and being vegetarian for a long period. There are lots of parallels between that compared with...
Awareness and Transition to Veganism
00:23:43
Speaker
going vegan and being vegan for a long period of time in terms of ethics, in terms of avoiding things, in terms of your identity.
00:23:50
Speaker
Let's start talking about veganism though. when When did that start sort of becoming part of your awareness or a term that you were hearing more? Where does that start to interact with you as a person?
00:24:04
Speaker
So, I mean, they're very separate times, I think. when i When vegan started being more on my radar was probably before the pandemic.
00:24:17
Speaker
But it's difficult area because before this... So I was overweight before 2020. And even like you know being vegetarian, you can be overweight. And I was aware of thinking, like well, a vegan diet would be much healthier, a plant-based diet. It was still, I guess...
00:24:38
Speaker
it was still known to me as being vegan rather than a plant-based thing. I think you know i think they can be separate things as well. But back then it was just being vegan. i was thinking that was a way to a healthier lifestyle, but I just, where my life was, I didn't really have the the opportunities to do so. um So we then fast forward through that. So it's sort of like we go through the pandemic and obviously that was awful time for everybody. um And we all did what we could with the food that was there and everything else. um
00:25:12
Speaker
And then, so my marriage broke down in 2022 and that's really where I kind of decided, right, Now's the time to make the change, you know to have an identity as divorced David instead of the married David. So you know it's the best time to reinvent yourself, isn't it? So I ah lost the weight. I was still vegetarian, but I lost the weight. I stopped eating everything that was bad for me. I started making healthier choices.
00:25:41
Speaker
But those healthier choices were all plant-based. There was more plant-based stuff available. i started hearing plant-based more as just ah an everyday word. It wasn't that before. It was, as I say, it was just vegan. um But again, it wasn't really an everyday word, whereas it is now. It's an everyday word I think people use.
00:26:04
Speaker
so much it's everywhere it's in supermarkets it's it's been shown as a healthy way as opposed to what we were talking about before back in school in the 90s where you know it's it's oh you're going to be unhealthy and everything else it was like no this is a healthier way of living um So my my choices actually became grain-based. I started grains. I looked into grains. I had access to the internet. So it was like what ancient grains would be really good nutritionally. um And I found loads of them. And I mean, if you've seen where I was like before I had moved just recently, it's like I had a whole like window sort of just full of jars of ancient grains because it was like I i wanted to have them in my diet. Can you name some ancient grains for us? Because it might be that there are ah grains that listeners know about, but they don't know that they are ancient grains. All I can think of is amaranth, is it? Amaranth? Amaranth, yes. That's the one i was going to list. I was going to think of it all in like alphabetical order of my autistic trait.
00:27:07
Speaker
Well, there's amaranth. I mean, there's pot barley as opposed to pearl barley. okay um there Oh, let's try and think now. There's teff grain, T-E-F-F grain. Oh, this is really going to test me now because I have to picture my jars in my old kitchen.
00:27:26
Speaker
Millet is a bird seed, but we can have that in our diet. and I was going to say, as ah as a fellow previous share home with a budgie person, I definitely remember millet millet spray hanging up in ever in their cage and latterly their aviary. Yeah. Yeah, so and millet's really good for us as well. so um I mean, it is quinoa, I think, because that carries all nine amino acids that we need in our diets. And I think that counts as an ancient grain. I'm and i'm not sure, but I mean, that's a major one anyway. but um
00:28:00
Speaker
Gosh, there's loads. What else? It's the theory here that, um you know, these are grains that have been around and humans have been consuming for millennia. um So, like, just speaking from an evolutionary point of view, they must be good for us because if they weren't, we would have died out or or have developed deformities and deficiencies, that sort of thing. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, that was my thinking for it exactly with the grains was just being if they have been around for so long. they must be.
00:28:30
Speaker
But like everything, when you look at it online, there's arguments for, there's arguments left against. There's, you know, a lot of people say that the ancient grains, we shouldn't have so many grains, we should be able to get all our nutrients from eating enough fruit and vegetable in our diet. But that's assuming that you've got the ability to afford fruit and veg, organic fruit and veg in particular, that obviously hasn't been sprayed in pesticides and chemicals.
00:28:56
Speaker
you know, grains are much cheaper to buy in bulk and that's what I did because I didn't have a lot of money to get all of it. i You know, I could get some fruit and veg and I wanted to choose organic. I wanted to choose that way and be kinder to the planet and everything else. So these were the decisions I was making which, you know, do align with the the vegan way of thinking with wanting to make ah a difference to everything in the world around us.
00:29:21
Speaker
um the the things that I struggled with because I did think with the grains being in my diet and more fruit and veg and having lost the weight feeling healthier, I did think I'm going to be vegan, but I was worried that i wasn't going to like the alternatives, so like the dairy free yogurts and dairy free milks. and because i i didn't I didn't know. i hadn't tried them, um but I was practically vegan. I think, you know, though what I listed was all that was in my diet. I mean, I didn't have cheese because it was quite high in fat, so it was I avoided that. So really, it was...
00:30:03
Speaker
I guess biding my time, like you know I just thought one day it will happen where I do decide and I started dating Dominic who's a vegan and I then made, I think my first meal I made for him was using a vegan cheese to make up ah like of a yeah plant-based pasta bake for him. And I liked it so much I thought, you know what, I'm going to go vegan, I'm going to do it But I did it with a bit of control in my mind of like, I'm going to do a 5-2 diet. I'm going to do five days a week being vegan and two days a week being vegetarian. It didn't work out like that. As soon as I went vegan, that was it.
00:30:42
Speaker
It was like, I was just fixed to it because it's like it was so easy to do. I really didn't know whether I would like the alternatives, but I do. and they're much better for me. And, you know, if I was to go back, mean, when I think of, like, I look at milk or even, like, when I've smelt it still, and again, like I did with meat when I first went vegetarian, it's off-putting. I think it just looks too, yeah, and I know, obviously, where it comes from and all of that just, know,
00:31:09
Speaker
it adds up so again i found it really easy to do i wouldn't have done back in the 90s because those alternatives weren't there but they are so easily available and while they are still sadly more expensive than the dowry alternatives they are getting better at the prices getting better the deals that you get are getting better And yeah, I've just, again, not looked back. So i mean, what we're in, you know, I mean, I would say six months I've been vegan for and I know that I'm not going to go back to it. i have
00:31:42
Speaker
um I know what I'm like when I've decided something and I've got past at least two months, then i'm that's it for life for me, you know. I used to smoke sadly, you know, in my like mid teens and that. And when I gave up, it was like, yeah, after two months, I knew that I would stop. And so that's the case. and there's There's lots of studies on, on sort of the, the number of days or the number of repetitions of something that it can take to embed a habit or to
00:32:14
Speaker
remove a habit and it's surprisingly few actually isn't it I believe it's I think it's something like two weeks or something I think there's there is that's how long it takes which is a really short period of time for for a habit to change I think people probably feel that it's longer maybe because two weeks can drag if you're really craving something or whatever but yeah I do think that after two weeks yeah it's much easier because I think ah In terms of institutionalization, yeah, I think that it only takes two weeks for a human to like be institutionalized. So any, anything um can, would, would take about that. I think psychologically there is a factor in that or evidence anyways.
00:32:59
Speaker
Well, and and biologically, I mean, you mentioned the sort of physiological response that you now have to smelling milk or something like that. I, I, to remember that. And it's, it's one of those where I think probably like, like all vegans or certainly most, you know, there've been times in my life since identifying as vegan where I'll be accidentally served something.
00:33:24
Speaker
And, um, if it is a milk or a dairy thing or an egg thing, I can just like tell straight away, like my throat will close up. And, but, but that,
00:33:36
Speaker
That can happen surprisingly quickly. um you've You've mentioned there, David, a surprise that things have been straightforward from a vegan point of view and also that um alternative manufactured products you've enjoyed the taste of or not missed um the the sort of original version, if you like. have there been any other surprises positive or negatives for your for your sort of first six months of of being vegan when when when i went vegan i mean for you know like most people i think it's not just about the diet it's like everything being aware of everything and
00:34:17
Speaker
I think you know i think things that things that I've made changes with, I think I've looked like, when I've looked at what I'm buying, if I'm trying to buy more ethically and using companies like Amazon without yeah and joining them and just having it there and not really looking into the the impact they have. And even with AI, something like ChatGVT and the impact that has on the environment,
00:34:42
Speaker
I'm sad to say that I wasn't really aware
Ethical Consumer Habits and Empowerment
00:34:45
Speaker
before. So like even this time last year, it wasn't on my radar. And while I considered myself quite ethical and aware, those are the things that I wasn't, you know, I was quite ignorant to. But through this journey, through like from being vegan and looking at any other changes that I can make in life,
00:35:09
Speaker
that's something I think that I've been more aware of and actually just like, right, I'm canceling the Prime membership and you know going to watch a movie at the cinema and then sadly seeing He-Man, being a big fan of He-Man coming out and then sadly seeing that it's made by Amazon and just being like, I'm contributing still even though I'm trying not to like to you know i'm trying to live a better way that's actually better for the planet and i'm still contributing to it in some way you know um i know it's really hard in that you know in the uk you know in this country it's just awful because it's everywhere you know amazon and the way we're all told on how to live and the access that we have it's like you know it's really hard not to
00:35:57
Speaker
but But that's just, i mean, you know, it's just really sad that no matter what we try, it doesn't seem to be, you know, like, you know, we just can't avoid it. So yes, I, I i do, ah do agree with you. And i think what I find interesting about being vegan is the, the fact that I do feel empowered by it.
00:36:22
Speaker
I do feel like, well, I'm definitely not contributing to that. And there are, yeah, that there are going to be things that we can feel more easily that we're not contributing to.
00:36:35
Speaker
And then there'll be other things where it's kind of like, well, you know, even if I abstain from X, Y, and zd my taxes are still going towards this or the company I work for still does this. There are going to be things that it's harder to feel like we're making a difference by our our boycotting of something or or our opinion. But I've always found that veganism is really good for that because I know I'm definitely not contributing to...
00:37:04
Speaker
animals suffering in a deliberate industrialized way of course there's there's still going to be accidental things but that to me feels like a good thing Yeah, of course. ah Yeah, when you say that, I mean, yes, I i feel the same. i I do feel empowered by choosing to live as best that I can and make the choices that I do. I'm not contributing to, you know, the murder of other animals, you know, um and I'm trying to make more ethical decisions with going to the supermarket as opposed to having somebody deliver it to me and there's the impact on the environment in that way. And making more ethical choices with the food that I buy and trying to choose foods that have less of a carbon footprint and things as well, you know. um so ah yeah, i do feel that I'm still making the difference. It's just like as a sad thing that we can't escape some things. But...
00:38:03
Speaker
But yeah, I agree with you. You're right that you know um doing what we can by doing what we do is on on our own own individual levels, together, that makes a difference. I'm making a difference right now. You're making a difference right now. Everybody that's listening to this is making a difference right now. And that's what counts. I think when people say like, you know, if you to try and use an analogy of when people vote and you just say, why are you voting for them? Because that vote won't matter. It's like, it does matter. Every vote matters.
00:38:35
Speaker
Because combined, that's what makes the difference. so us as individuals might think being vegan might not matter, but as more of us become vegan, as more of us stand up and say, you know yeah, this is wrong, we want to choose a better way, we want to look after the life on this planet, not destroy it, we want to do something good for the planet, then I think that so you know that speaks volumes. We can do it. you know The more of us there are,
00:39:05
Speaker
the better, you know, or the the greater chance we have of saving the planet. You know, we are losing the war of, you know, the war on the world at the moment. You know, the planet is dying. I one of the things I remember about the the horrific time in the pandemic, but the lockdown, and I remember how quickly the planet started recovering just in like the first three months of the first massive lockdown here. But the planet started recovering so quickly and I thought there's hope here, there really is hope that we might learn something because this is being noticed globally. It wasn't what happened when everyone started having wars with each other and, you know, for, you know, right or wrong, but,
00:39:45
Speaker
that's been forgotten. The world did start, but yet we went straight back to it and started the whole, you know, the the narrative again of, oh, we must do something. It's like, well, we had the chance through like six years ago. Now we had that chance. and when When are we going to do it again?
00:40:01
Speaker
and More of us are becoming vegan. More of us are standing up and saying, you know, this is wrong. We need to do it. That's good. But the people in power, you know, no none none of us are going into like being like leaders of countries or it's not getting voted. Zach Polanski. I was going to say it's all on Zach Polanski, isn't it? He's got all of our hopes.
00:40:23
Speaker
ah Yeah, but yes, we need people to vote for him to get that, to get the changes, you know, for our world. Yeah, very true. Very
Support in Veganism and Plant-Based Options
00:40:32
Speaker
true. It strikes me that you're in a good position to give some good tips, whether they be practical or whether they be social or anything like that in terms of just like, oh this made quite a big difference to my first few steps as a vegan. What what stands out for you? What really helped?
00:40:51
Speaker
Oh, I think, I mean, definitely having a partner that was vegan, I think that really helped. um So just, I guess, having support, having someone that I could talk to about it and say, this is what I'm planning to do um What works for you? You know, he was a vegan in my life, so it was like, what works for you? And what's that like? and And and i I guess also just thinking that, you know, if I didn't like the vegan milk or if I didn't like the vegan, there's lots of other um options out there as well. So I guess just not being too hard on myself as well, like having a self-compassion and just thinking, you know,
00:41:27
Speaker
There's lots out there. I might not like the first thing. Don't give up at the first hurdle. i'm You know, I'm going to try different things. And if I didn't like every single milk, that's that's not a problem. You know, I looked into, I mean, Googling is a good thing, maybe not using Google. but you know, another alternative search engine, but just searching where you can get all your nutrients from like calcium is a big thing for vegans. um Because, you know, this is really hard to get but just knowing that you can get it in spinach, kale, very leafy greens, you know, and it's like, I really like that anyway, I'm lucky that I do, you know, but again, there are vitamin supplements if you don't like that sort of thing. But doing research really helped, you know, whether it be with somebody else or just online, it was like, you know, looking at um where to get them from, you know, responsibly, you know, um looking at ethical organisations or whether you can buy things in bulk and it might be cheaper, which it often is. So because obviously, they're Plant-based milks, for example, are more expensive than dairy. you know
00:42:33
Speaker
um Buying in bulk really helps. and um And because you don't have to store it in the fridge, it's actually easier to get and just put it in a cupboard and it's there. And it's just so easy to grab. It's actually better than getting milk that you might have to go out or order in if people do that. and you know So I think that's much better. yeah I just never run out of it doing it that way. and um yeah ah There's just so many things I think that, gosh, it's like just six months ago that I think that
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah, it was just so easy to do when I think back and I just think, you know, just a few Google searches talking to a few people and deciding, right, this is the day to do it. know, again, a fixed point, you know, again, it wasn't a New Year's Day thing, but it was a beginning of the week. So, you know, like we talked about with having that, it was like, right, on that Monday for that week, I'm going to do it. And again, I did, that I said I had the five too, but that was just in case I needed to. I guess it was a bit of a ah self-confidence thing just in case I really didn't like it. Or if I felt that I was lacking something like calcium, if I didn't feel that I was getting enough, I i was still able to do that. but I think any any kind of decision making...
00:43:54
Speaker
Really, it benefits from us knowing that we can change our mind if if we have to. i mean, there are a few examples in life. I'm thinking of having a child or something like that, where and going back on it isn't really part of the deal. but ah Otherwise, like being able to change our mind, that's part of consent, isn't it like Consent doesn't really work if you can't revoke it. And you know especially with doing something that you've not done before, just having that safety net, I suppose, of...
00:44:31
Speaker
Well, if the I don't think there's many people that would continue being vegan if they knew categorically that the being vegan-ness of their life was making them terribly, terribly ill.
00:44:44
Speaker
it's you you know you you just wouldn't. it it's it's Exactly. That's not in the ask of veganism. The ask of veganism isn't to eschew all animal use and make yourself really ill. um So if that were to happen, and you were sure that that was what was happening, then then reversing that is ah ought to be an option. And i I think people knowing that they can go back on things, there's there's many things in in life in 2026 terms of transparency of our lives that maybe make people less willing to take a risk because it's so visible you know if I say I'm going vegan everyone's gonna know and then everyone will take the mick out of me if I don't stick with it and um blah blah but like I wonder how many people if they just knew that they could try it and then go back on it if it didn't feel right I wonder how many more people would give it a go and then find out it was easier than they thought
00:45:43
Speaker
I think more people would probably give it a go. I think that, I think you're right. I mean, if I think about, like, think of, if I went, I told everybody I'm going vegan and then decided, oh, I need to go back and then think, you know, everyone's going to think I'm a failure or something like that. um Yeah, so that that was a harder thing to think of, you know, because I mean, I guess in a way that was a motivator to keep me going on it as well in that way. But if I had needed to change for health reasons, I would still have those feelings. So it would make it harder to then listen to my own health. I think if more people were less judgmental and less like, oh, you have failed or whatever. But
00:46:28
Speaker
I mean, maybe that's just the people I've had in my life, you know. but I have got a lot of support and everything now, but but it's just maybe that is that speaks more about them than it does about me or anybody else. but so But yeah, I think if you've got the support and you've got people, then it doesn't matter.
00:46:46
Speaker
if you are If you're unwell, um then you make the decision go back. I mean, I did my now ex-sister-in-law. She was vegetarian and um through health was told by the doctor she would have to eat meat again. And I don't really know and understand all of that because I'm not a doctor, but that's what she told us and and so had to go back to eating meat. But no one judged her ron on doing so. I mean, maybe I question what that would have been, but I'm not a doctor. so But, you know, my my point is is just that...
00:47:24
Speaker
that worked for her and if I'm going to expect that from other people then I need to practice what I preach or not judge that that was her decision to do and she has to look after her own health but it's not the the 90s version of what veganism was of where you're really unhealthy no matter what you do Nowadays, you could be overweight and still be vegan. Back then, you couldn't or it wasn't seen that was possible. But now you can. You could be diabetic, type 2 diabetic, and be vegan as well. they're All the same health conditions, all the same problems, you know, with obesity, etc., are still possible for plant-based diets now. so Yeah, an interesting development, that one, isn't it? a Like, we we want to ah broaden the tent and make the umbrella wider that that that vegans can sit under and yeah it'd be not it'd be nice to think it was a cure-all but uh yeah it's certainly not david we've had so much of your time which i'm really really grateful for i've just got two last questions for you which you can answer really quickly or or go into it's up to you i'm interested as to what you would tell your pre-vegan self if you could if you had a message that you would want to give to them And I'm also interested. So that's looking back, looking forward.
00:48:44
Speaker
I'm interested as to what's next on your vegan journey.
Advice to Pre-Vegan Self
00:48:48
Speaker
Do you think? Oh, so looking back, I think I would say to my pre-vegan self, and you should have done it sooner. It's easier than you think. um And, um,
00:49:01
Speaker
I guess because I'm a a person that does find change really hard, really, really hard, really scary because of that being autistic, um it does make change really hard. But with proper planning and that, it was a lot easier, even with my anxiety of just doing that and...
00:49:19
Speaker
It is a superpower because the other side of it is because of my acute sense of order. It's a lot easier to actually fit in and go, right, on a Monday, I'm going to be this from now on. So it kind of contradicts that anxiety that's, oh, no change, don't do anything. So oh yeah, it it was a lot easier. So I would tell myself it's a lot easier than you think, even going back to my 14-year-old self.
00:49:42
Speaker
it It would be very reassuring to have a future version of yourself come back and tell you that something that ah you might think not possible is easier. that Like it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy then, doesn't it? You're like, oh, I'll be able to get through this because my future self has told me. Obviously, it's is not not quite as easy as that is in reality. But yeah, no, I like that. And what um what about what about and what's next then?
00:50:05
Speaker
Oh, I mean, obviously sticky to what I do. i think I mean, I'm always trying to do more. I think one of my our goals in life has always been to make a difference and leave the planet in a better place than I found
Future Ethical Choices and Awareness
00:50:20
Speaker
it. So I'm i'm living by that. um And I try to, for 2026, rather than a a New Year's resolution. I started the year on a mantra of i am, I can, I will. So I am able to do something, I can do something, and I will do something. um So I'm going to carry on living by that, and I'm going to carry on finding where I can make a difference. Whether it be even taking part in these podcasts and you know doing anything for the Going for Loveful collection, is like that makes a difference, reaching out to people and telling people you though they're not on their own. and you know People can make these changes at any point in their life if they want and how they can do that. um And I think that's what I kind of want to carry on doing and ah just making a difference. If I find that I'm doing something that I'm not aware of, is holding my hand up, and ah yeah I'm not aware of this, and then making that change um and just ah carrying on loving the world that we live in and like just trying to protect it and keep it you know at least making it not any worse I want to make it better but yeah protect it so that's awesome that's awesome that's a really nice inspiring note to finish on that's brilliant thank you so much David that's great thank you Anthony
00:51:46
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster.
00:51:56
Speaker
We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com. And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:52:27
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:52:47
Speaker
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