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288- Living sustainably...by eating guinea pigs, pigeons & rabbits?!
118 Plays15 days ago
Are off-gridders finding the epitome of sustainable living? Highlighting people's speciesism? Or just missing the point? In this week's show, Shane & Anthony are joined for the first time by the brilliant Svenne to discuss this story, along with several others from the last seven days of animal rights & vegan news.
Like what we do? Want to help it sound even better? Join our KoFi gang here: https://ko-fi.com/ENOUGHOFTHEFALAFEL
Thanks to Neil, Shane & Alex for their continued Ko-Fi support!
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.delfi.lt/en/business/firm-behind-planned-eur-67mn-insect-protein-plant-declared-bankrupt-media-120268645
https://oceanographicmagazine.com/news/icelandic-whaling-vessel-violates-animal-welfare-laws-in-renewed-hunt/
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2026/06/29/china-understands-food-security-the-eu-does-not
https://cen.acs.org/business/consumer-products/vegan-cosmetics-vogue-reasons-think/104/web/2026/06
https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/food/legoland-ice-cream-vegan-by-default/
https://news.sky.com/story/glue-trap-ban-comes-into-full-force-in-scotland-13559441
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jul/02/huge-rise-mammals-poultry-livestock-farming-worldwide-nature-report
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8r218rxjgpo
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-herald-1130/20260630/281719801312386
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/oireachtas/2026/07/02/free-vote-urged-on-bill-seeking-to-ban-hare-coursing/
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Shane, Svenne & Anthony
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Blah, blah, blah, blah. Excellent.
Introduction of Hosts
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello, everyone. It is vegan and animal rights news time from across the world. We are coming to you from across the world too. Who are we? Well, I'm Anthony.
00:00:12
Speaker
I'm in the UK right now, but I'm joined by Svenna. She's in the Netherlands right now. And I'm joined by Shane, who is right down there in Texas in the US of A right
Vegan Week Banter
00:00:24
Speaker
now. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel. It's time for Vegan Week.
00:00:28
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Roaty! Take your flat-grown meat elsewhere, we're not doing that in the state of Florida.
00:00:40
Speaker
Should I call the medium and say, hi, sorry? True education, younger generation are getting to know how brutal these practices are. That leaves a of pizza delivery companies in problems with things, you know.
00:00:52
Speaker
What is this? What kind of movie is this? It's comedy, gobbled, maybe. Any form of social injustice.
00:01:02
Speaker
As long as you donna get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:01:11
Speaker
cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser
Podcast Overview of Vegan and Animal Rights News
00:01:14
Speaker
vision. and Hello everyone, my name is Svenna and welcome to this show. Thank you for being here. Hey everyone, this is Shane. If you're new to the podcast, Vegan Week is our news show where we look through all the vegan and animal rights news for the last week or so. And remember, you can read the original news reports for all the stories we cover in today's show. Just check the show notes in our podcast player and follow the links. But that's enough of the falafel. Let's hear what's been going on this
Insect Protein Plant Bankruptcy
00:01:40
Speaker
week. Indeed, and we're going to start off as we have been doing recently with four or five real quick stories. We're not going to tell you much about them at all. We're just goingnna tell you that they've happened. We'll give you the links, as the folks have said, and you can read some more if you would like to, and then we'll get into some stories that we discuss in a bit more detail about Our first story comes from Lithuania. Why? Well, the firm behind a planned 67 million euro insect protein plant has been declared bankrupt. Oh dear, what a shame. Never mind. They'd planned to invest a ton of money um into this insect protein plant in a free economic zone, creating around 100 jobs. Well, if they're jobs to do with animal exploitation, we're not interested, even if they are tiny little animals. So that feels like a bit of a good news story to start us off.
00:02:34
Speaker
Next story, not so good, coming from oceanographicmagazine.com.
Icelandic Whaling Controversy
00:02:40
Speaker
Icelandic whaling vessel violates animal welfare laws in renewed hunt. We often focus the very northwestern European practice of whale hunting. Sometimes it doesn't happen, particularly in the pharaohs at the moment. I think They're having a few off years where they're not doing it, but still going on in Iceland, unfortunately. And this is the third whale to have been killed in Iceland's renewed hunting season. Shot with exploding harpoons four times, took more than 30 minutes to die. An assessment from the Icelandic Veterinary Authority has confirmed.
00:03:17
Speaker
Horrible,
EU's Food Self-Sufficiency Misconception
00:03:18
Speaker
horrible stuff. We've got a bit of a news opinion piece from Euronews that you can follow the links to. ah The headline, China understands food security, the EU does not. This is basically an opinion piece saying that Europe sees itself as self-sufficient in food, but actually in terms of meat, animal, flesh, it's heavily relying on imported animal feed. So although the animals might be being grown and living in Europe, actually they're relying on feed from elsewhere. That's an interesting read, that one. We're gonna have a look at some vegan cosmetics now.
Rise of Vegan Cosmetics
00:03:57
Speaker
Apparently, according to Chemical and Engineering News, we're getting all the niche publications in this week, according to them,
00:04:05
Speaker
they are in vogue vegan cosmetics, but not because everyone is really into animal rights and things like that. It's just that the tech is getting easier to produce and there are there are more ways of producing these products in a vegan-friendly way. So I guess from an animal rights point of view, We don't really care why it's happening so long as fewer animals are being exploited.
Legoland Vegan Ice Cream Rumor
00:04:31
Speaker
And our final story, by far the most important news of all from Plant-Based News, is Legoland's ice cream really vegan by default? Well, Plant-Based News have received an as-yet unconfirmed tip-off. That sounds like spam to me, Plant-Based News, that all of Legoland's soft serve ice cream is now vegan.
00:04:54
Speaker
However, they have not confirmed at Legoland. So, I mean, goodness me, the the debate continues. We'll have more on that, I promise you, if any other developments come to pass.
Scotland's Ban on Glue Traps
00:05:07
Speaker
Let's get on to the news stories that we're going to talk about in some more detail now. We're starting off with something from Sky News. The headline, glue trap ban comes into full force in Scotland. So this is glue traps that catch birds. So the traps typically trays coated with a sticky adhesive. They don't immediately kill an animal, but obviously those stuck in them can suffer severe and often fatal injuries. Shane, if we come to you first, I'm aware that this isn't really a common practice in
00:05:42
Speaker
the US so you've had to do some gemming up on what this is all about what's what's your sort of initial insight into this practice and then we'll say a little bit more about the story itself no this is actually is a common uh thing in the US but I don't think that birds are the intended ah target for these. In my experience, it's generally used to trap like rice ah not rice mice or rats. I was combining rat and mice. There's only one time I've ever seen one of these in use. I was in high school, and I guess we had a mouse or something in the choir room, and the director had put one of them out.
00:06:23
Speaker
one of these out and in the mouse got stuck in it. And it was absolutely horrific. All of us were crying um the way this mouse was struggling. And um these are horribly, horribly cruel contraptions. And I think the article does go into some detail about how they catch a lot of animals that they aren't intended for. And then it's very difficult to save those animals. So they actually, they are in use in the United States. But I think they're becoming more well-known as cruel. Yes, yes. i I think my initial assessment of of them being used to catch birds was being confused with a story. We covered it a couple of years ago, I think. um It was either Cyprus or Malta, one one of the islands that's in the Mediterranean Sea where deliberately glue traps are.
00:07:11
Speaker
are used to to catch birds. There's horrendous, horrendous culture of killing birds in in some of these Mediterranean islands. And you know anybody who knows a little bit about birds' behaviour will understand that an island in the middle of a big body of sea is going to be a hotspot for birds because they want somewhere to rest when they're doing that big flight.
00:07:36
Speaker
across. So they definitely are used in some places to catch birds. But I think i think you're right, that's not the intention in Scotland. um So we're recording this episode on the 5th of July from the 1st of July. It's now a criminal offence to use, supply or possess a glue trap in Scotland. Offenders face a fine of up to £40,000 or up to 12 months in prison.
00:08:01
Speaker
Svenna, is this something that goes on in the Netherlands too? Yes, unfortunately it is. So I was looking it up because I also read this article and I was wondering what's actually the situation in the Netherlands and the glue traps for rats and mice are still sold in Dutch shops and also online, but officially it is not ah legal to use them. So it's a very confusing situation where on the one hand you can buy them, that is legal, but using them at home is a criminal offense. And the reason they are still selling these traps is that if you are a licensed pest controller, you might use those glue traps in particular circumstances and situations.
00:08:43
Speaker
But there's hardly any enforcement of the law. And um the government has also not clearly communicated or informed the public that they should not use them at home themselves. So many consumers can still, well, easily buy them and use them at home. So yeah, not very good in the Netherlands.
00:09:01
Speaker
No, and that does seem a little bizarre that there's sort of a product that can be used by specialist professionals. Obviously, they're professionals that we we as vegans would rather didn't exist. But nonetheless, if they do exist, then you would have thought there would be a less common way of of buying them. You know, like didn't know the the British Army doesn't go down to, I don't know, Sainsbury's to buy its bullets, does it?
00:09:28
Speaker
No, absolutely. You're correct. You're correct. So it's it's ah it's a confusing situation and it's very easy to get them online and in shops. I just looked it up. It's too easy. now Yeah. You're going to get targeted ads for that now over the next week. I hope not. No. yeah Yeah, I mean, ah ah sign of optimism for this beyond Scotland, obviously, this is a good bit of progress for Scotland. But we've seen, i suppose, the domino effect of legislation in one European country then very quickly being carried out. in other European countries. And of course, it doesn't have to be limited to to Europe at all, does it? But the fact that this this has happened, it's made the news, it's going to make it easier for campaigners. I mean, it's the Scottish SPCA who have been doing a lot of work towards encouraging the government to change the law here. There are going to be other campaigners in other countries that can use this as a ah test case, if you like.
00:10:27
Speaker
And hopefully all of the UK will adopt this practice because it seems like the Scottish government had to actually close a loophole from the, don't know, what is it, like Internal Market Act, because there's a policy that says that products that are sold in one part of the country are allowed to be sold in others. So they had to close this loophole so that they could ban it because apparently, I mean, I guess this is legal in England or Wales or or something. So they went to quite a bit of trouble to make this happen. Absolutely. So well done everyone involved in that. And let's hope that that can be expanded out a lot more, a lot more widely for the the better improvement of of outcomes for for animals across the world.
UN Report on Livestock Farming's Environmental Impact
00:11:10
Speaker
Our next story is not so positive. I suppose it's good that the data is out there. It comes to us from The Guardian, the headline, global boom in livestock farming since 2006.
00:11:23
Speaker
is piling pressure on nature report finds. So this is a report that is from the publication of the UN n Food and Agriculture Organization's seminal report on animal farming, livestock's long shadow. There is a graphic quite early on in the piece that um i I've got a feeling we shared something like this quite recently on the show, where you see just how much the exploitation of chickens has increased over the last 60 years, whilst every other kind of animal that's exploited is more or less the same. There are some fluctuations, but the number of mammals and poultry farmed worldwide has increased by half
00:12:10
Speaker
in the last two decades, this research shows. And therefore the amount of cropland used for feeding livestock has increased by about a quarter. That's an interesting distinction, isn't it? The fact that I think when you see that headline, global booming livestock farming is piling pressure on nature.
00:12:31
Speaker
immediately one's mind might go to fields or barns full of animals. But actually, it seems like the mono cropping of huge swathes of land to just grow stuff to feed these animals is the biggest impact here.
00:12:47
Speaker
I mean, I think another issue is all the water that is being used because they were talking about 90% of water withdrawn from natural systems for irrigation is used to grow animal feed. And we've talked about how that's starting to cause a problem in the American West for people who are living out there because there's not going to be enough water for the people who live there because they're using so much to grow crops for animals and to give to animals that they're raising for food.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I found it interesting to read that even where progress had been made, for instance, by reducing the amount of greenhouse gas produced per, well, let's say unit of meat, it was still outweighed by then the sheer increase of this livestock population. And in the Netherlands, especially politicians, they usually frame all these climate change issues as a way that we can overcome this by having more innovative practices. And I hope that this article can inform them that we can do as much innovation as we want if we just keep producing more and more meat. In the end, we will have even worse situations with regards to climate. And that's even disregarding all the animal welfare concerns, of course, because that was also something that I noted in this article that The animals in the farms are not only part of this environmental calculation, right? There are also individuals with feelings, with pain, with experiences, and we should also focus on that in the discussion, I think.
Moral Implications of Livestock Farming
00:14:19
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, the the danger of looking at things in this huge macro scale is you've got these huge unimaginable numbers, haven't you? So you're not focusing on individual lives, but those big numbers are comprised entirely of individual lives, aren't they? And individual...
00:14:39
Speaker
parcels of land. I thought it was interesting to see the suggestion from, apologies for the pronunciation, you can correct me straight away, Sven, because I reckon this person comes from your neck of the woods, Meryl van der Mark.
00:14:53
Speaker
Did I get that all right, do you reckon? Merel van der Maark. Excellent. So they are the head of animal welfare and finance at the campaign group Synergia Animal. They said that publicly funded development banks who provided $1.23 billion dollars to intensive farms in 2024 need to lead this charge by changing their investment criteria. I mean, that's an interesting concept, isn't it? You you do get...
00:15:24
Speaker
banks that will say, no, we ah we don't invest in groups that are borrowing money for weapons or for this, that, and the other. It'd be interesting to start seeing that, you know, big banks saying, no, we're not going to lend money to people who are doing industrial animal ag.
00:15:42
Speaker
I mean, the cynic in me would say, you only need one person to lend you money. So if out of the 100 banks, 99 are saying no, will those farms just all go to one? I don't i don't know. No, but it's good start. Yeah. i guess I felt like this article just kind of depressed me because, you know, as you were saying at the beginning, Anthony, there was this report 20 years ago about the problems with factory farming and livestock, raising livestock, and the amount of that has just increased in that time.
00:16:15
Speaker
And it just feels like the world doesn't care about animals or the planet because there's simple things that could be done. They're not doing it. They talked in this article about the fertilizer and the slurry that are dumped into the oceans. They're causing massive dead zones.
00:16:30
Speaker
The intensive livestock farming is causing waste zones on lands where wildlife can't survive. They can't grow anything. And you just have to wonder like, okay, what what point can we not reverse these changes? At what point are people going to wake up and say, we really need to do something?
00:16:45
Speaker
And um I don't know, it hasn't happened in 20 years yet. So it's depressing. Yeah, I think that's definitely a thing that I feel too. And like, I don't know, that's quite a normal, reasonable thing for a consciouscent conscientious person to feel upon reading stuff like that.
00:17:03
Speaker
And I feel like, not telling you how to be, Shane, but like as as people that want to impact change with regards to animal rights with with regards to the environment, social change, it is slow, isn't it? So a bit of bloody mindedness of like, we're going to say this stuff and we know you're not going to listen and we're going to keep saying it. And then maybe a small fraction of you might listen the 13th time you hear it. And then we're going to keep saying it. And then, you know, I think that perhaps has to be part of our outlook or it could be part of our outlook as vegans. It's difficult.
00:17:40
Speaker
We'll just all be going down with the ship. You're like, I told you so.
00:17:46
Speaker
Nah, it's fine. It's fine. Svenna will tell us living in the Netherlands, you know, loads of stuff's happening, right? Well, I'm connecting to you now because I feel like I have to flee the first for all the water that is rising from the ocean. So it's happy to make some UK and US friends now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is is that why like there are all these like plant forward and like vegan forward policies in in Dutch politics? Because actually climate change, you're going to be the first country off the map.
00:18:15
Speaker
Well, yeah maybe it does raise some awareness. I hope so. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I should say I'm aware that there are many places in the world that ah will be suffering right now from climate change stuff ah before the Netherlands. I'm not that ignorant, but yes. Yeah. Well, thank you, Svenna and Shane, for that discussion on those first couple of stories. Listeners, remember, as well as listening to the show, you can also read the show. Did you know that?
00:18:45
Speaker
Yes, you can just head over to Zencaster.com slash vegan week and any show that you click on will have a written transcript beneath it. ah These transcripts are AI generated, so they will not be 100% accurate.
00:18:58
Speaker
But nonetheless, they make our shows more accessible so that we're delighted that anyone who is interested in consuming our content in this way has the ability to do that. And also, if you listen on Spotify, it normally presents auto-generated captions when you're playing the show within that app.
00:19:15
Speaker
Cool. Thanks, Shane. Shane, I'm feeling a bit bad that that last story depressed you. And, you know, I put together the running order for for this week's show, like Kate's done it recently and, you know, other people take turns, but I'm responsible for this
Ethics of Breeding Guinea Pigs for Meat
00:19:29
Speaker
week's story. So I think we'll cheer you up now with a story about a couple in Wales who've been given the okay to eat their guinea pigs. Yay! just yeah to cheer you up. I am not making this up. This of course is horrible news. I've lived with guinea pigs. They're the last, the most recent animal that I've shared my living space with. And I try not to be speciesist. So I'm not going to say this is going to affect me more than other things, but yeah.
00:19:56
Speaker
Oh my goodness. So they've been given the go ahead to breed guinea pigs on their land so that they can eat them as part of their drive to live sustainably not particularly sustainable for the guinea pigs though is it dave and mayu phillips they are building an eco-friendly home to live off grid in rural pembrokeshire i don't know what proportion of our our listenership or shane or svena if if you know people that are seeking to live in this way but just partly through my interests and my work
00:20:29
Speaker
I've come across quite a few people who will go for this sort of off-grid living or express an interest in it. And you know on on the face of it, living in a way that has less impact on the land and and and all other things like that, that's a really positive thing.
00:20:46
Speaker
However, these guys are planning on producing honey, raising a pair of breeding rabbits, three pairs of breeding guinea pigs to produce meat for the household, along with a flock of 20 pigeons for eggs and meat.
00:21:00
Speaker
What do we think? Like, Svenna, can we come to you first? Like, should we be making anything of this as vegans? in the Would we be reporting on this if there was someone who said, oh yeah, a small holding has been given the go-ahead by the local council to raise a couple of cows, we wouldn't be talking about this, would we?
00:21:23
Speaker
or Or is there more of an in here because guinea pigs are cute? So what I noticed is that the article immediately accepts the sustainable meat framing from the couple. So the biggest issue for me is that it largely takes for granted the couple's idea that raising animals ah at home for food can be or even should be part of a sustainable lifestyle. And the authors or the journalists don't question whether breeding animals for meat is necessary in the first place. And I think actually it's the other way around, right? From a vegan point of view, um if you want to be as ego-friendly as possible and live this low-impact, sustainable lifestyle, you should not feed animals in the first place, but just feed yourself and grow vegetables and grow nuts and um yeah, stop
00:22:17
Speaker
animal breeding and slaughtering. Yeah, i've seen I've seen this story all over social media and I was glad at making headlines because i think it challenges people to consider which animals are food and which are companions because a lot of people who aren't vegan are a little bit outraged about this. And really the blurrier, that line between food animals companion animals gets the more that people are going to see that eating animals is wrong and another concern that i had reading this article which uh the bbc did not mention was that how the rabbits and the pigeons and all the animals on the property are going to be cared for because recently i read an article by kenny torella you didn't think you were going to get through an episode without me mentioning kenny torella hopefully play the jingle play the jingle yes
00:23:03
Speaker
Kenny Torella from Vox. um A month or so ago, he wrote an article about how small companion animals like gerbils, guinea ri pigs, and rabbits suffer enormously of pets because they are not really cared for properly. They're not given the correct size enclosures.
00:23:19
Speaker
They aren't given the correct food. They aren't given stimulation. And I can just only imagine that animals that are being used for food are going to be even less well cared for than these animals who are presumably people are are housing as pets.
00:23:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's some I too am glad that this article has got some got some traction. There's going to be a big proportion of people that will look at this and go, oh, how can you eat a guinea pig? And that's as far as their thinking will go.
00:23:47
Speaker
um Particularly when, if you are to read down the article and notice that they're raising pigeons for me as well, I think that's going to, I don't know about the the Netherlands and the US, s but I think the way that pigeons are generally regarded in the UK is, You may as well be saying they're raising rats to eat. But there is going to be a proportion of folk who maybe with a bit of challenging or maybe when they read the article will start to go, well, why is that any? any different. So yeah, I mean, it's, it's the classic vegan ah response to the efficiency of raising animals for food. But like, if you're living off grid, and you're trying to do it in a, in a sustainable way, in a low impact way,
00:24:33
Speaker
stop growing plants to then feed to animals. you You know, I get that there, I get that there will be presumably a pasture of grass there. I mean, I i genuinely do worry about these guinea pigs in terms, I mean, they're going to get eaten anyway, but like, if you've got a pasture for guinea pigs,
00:24:54
Speaker
like it just takes a nearby buzzard or kite or other bird of prey, they'll they'll be picking them off. but like ah they're not They're not going to put them on a pasture. They're going to be in a in a hutch or something and they'll throw some food in there twice a day. That's that's not going to food. That's ridiculous then, isn't it? Because they're going to be buying in food to to feed them. I was picturing like putting them on some grass and the guinea pigs eat eat eat the grass, in which case like just replace the grass with kale and far more kale is growing kale and then pick it and throw it in for the guinea i don't know what guinea pigs eat but you know they could pick it and throw it in there but they don't think they're free range guinea pigs no no well maybe i'm being completely naive as a previously free range guinea pig yes that's how you treat them yeah yeah
00:25:44
Speaker
But that's not how people raise rabbits either, right? They keep them in hutches. They don't let them just roam around on pastures if they're raising them for food. No, but they might they they might keep them in a garden, though. I don't know.
00:25:55
Speaker
I don't know. why Silly people. Silly people. They're being inefficient. If you if you want to live off-grid, do it properly. you know Do it efficiently. do the maths. like it's not It's not like 3,000 years ago before the internet. like quick ah you know Just grow vegetables and nuts. Yeah.
00:26:14
Speaker
Well, it's not a million miles away from where I live. Maybe I'll maybe i'll do some outreach. pay them a visit Okay, let's move on. I was a little facetious there in saying that I was going to cheer Shane up with that last story. That was unkind of me. However, i do think, Shane is nodding, I do think this next story is positive. I think it's hooray, hooray for the animal activists, but we'll see what Shane and Svenna have to say too.
Boycott of Edinburgh Zoo
00:26:43
Speaker
This comes to us from The Herald. The link in your show notes won't take you to The Herald because the news story is behind a paywall. So thank you, pressreader.com for helping us out.
00:26:54
Speaker
The headline, Edinburgh Zoo responds to boycott call from animal rights campaigners. We featured Edinburgh Zoo Recently before, I seem to remember some very loud fireworks led to a red panda dying. i don't think it was I think it was quite shocked by the loud noises and things like that. And Edinburgh Zoo were denying any wrongdoing or or something like that. but Anyway, they're hitting out now at what they're calling inaccurate claims by animal rights campaigners about the zoo. Activists with freedom for animals oppose zoos, arguing that all animals should live free from exploitation harm and captivity. Well, that seems like a very straightforward message. Who could possibly disagree with that? What is more, they didn't just say this, did they, Shane? They were dressed up in blow-up animal costumes, speaking to visitors outside the zoo last Sunday afternoon, encouraging them to reconsider the reason for the zoo and asking them,
00:27:54
Speaker
To boycott it, what are your initial thoughts of this kind of action? Is that is that ah a bit too where direct? Is that very impolite? Or is that the kind of direct in your face activism that we need?
00:28:07
Speaker
Well, i I don't think it's impolite at all, but I don't know. I don't live in ah in Scotland. I'm not sure what what they would think about it. um I did look at the costumes because I know we've talked about wearing animal costumes and I thought they were a little, looked a little on the cheap side, but yeah.
00:28:23
Speaker
Anyway, what what what i thought about this action was i felt like the CEO of the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland was very condescending in his comments in the article because he says, well, we you know, we welcomed freedom for animals into the zoo to show how many of their arguments are inaccurate. Like we told them that they're wrong and they're stupid.
00:28:45
Speaker
Um, that's my interpretation of what he was saying, but their arguments are basically zoos are being disingenuous when they say their purpose is to help with conservation because most zoos, most animals in zoos are not threatened in the wild.
00:29:00
Speaker
And because most animals in zoos are never going to be released into the wild. That's what they're saying. And he's like, well, we told them that's, you know, they're wrong, but they're not wrong. Just at the beginning of June on our hen house. And again, i we need a little jingle for that because I mentioned them all the time.
00:29:15
Speaker
They had a great interview with Liz Tyson from Born Free and it was episode 946. I looked this up and she went into all the research and the studies that Born Free has done to prove that zoos exist just to profit off of animal suffering. They do very little for conservation. This is just marketing on their point.
00:29:34
Speaker
on their part. it's And everything that the you know ah Freedom for Animals was saying is true. It's backed up by studies. It's backed up by research. So for my part, I would just argue that if a species is going to die off, it's better just to let them die off than to imprison the last few members of them for the rest of their lives.
00:29:53
Speaker
Yeah, and subjecting them to where unexpected fireworks displays nearby as as well. it's some I mean, i would i have said this before on on the pod, so regular listeners, apologies for hearing the same anecdote, but I volunteered at a zoo when I was about 20 years old as a vegetarian, as someone that cared about animals. And I drank the same Kool-Aid, you know, I spouted the lines that no, it's for conservation. And look at this one example of this one animal here that has been bred in captivity and and, you know, three of them have been released into the world. Isn't this a wonderful organization? Whilst ignoring the fact that there's thousands of wallabies roaming around the zoo um that that just don't need to be there. Svenna, there's an interesting point of contention from the zoo as to the fact that the activists were using a quiz outside to sort of engage people and and say, well, what do you think about this? Did you know this? That sort of thing. Did did did you think that was unreasonable or or is that just a a way of engaging with people?
00:31:04
Speaker
I think they were trying to make a more interactive conversation with the audience. And I think that's always a good idea to have a conversation rather than just shouting or yelling at people that they shouldn't go inside. So I think that was actually a good way to campaign.
00:31:20
Speaker
I was more shocked by the title of this article that said the zoo responds to the boycott call from the animal rights campaigners because they only respond to these factual numbers and making it a factual dispute about the percentages and the types of animals that are endangered species or not. um But that's really the easy route to take, right? They don't respond to the moral issue that is raised by the animal rights campaigners. So to be honest, I don't think they have responded at all to the boycott call.
00:31:50
Speaker
Well, there was an interesting response from the CEO, David Field, who comments on this quiz um and they've said, oh, we've previously welcomed freedom for animals into the zoo to show how many of their arguments are inaccurate. And we're disappointed that are offered to open a dialogue has been rejected and i was kind of thinking well they were stood outside your zoo like if you wanted to go and talk to them they were there like they were there having dialogues with people like i i don't know like maybe they're saying oh they didn't want to talk to our head pr person whose main job is going to be greenwashing humane washing the purposes of your zoo. But yeah, I i i was really impressed with with the activists here. Like, yeah, slightly cheap inflatables aside, like the fact is that will have got some people's attention. And like you say, Svenna, it'd be very tempting to just stand outside with a megaphone, yada, yada, yada. A lot of people are not going to engage with that. So finding different ways of of engaging with people and,
00:32:57
Speaker
Yes, we could say it's a shame that the Herald's headline isn't, people are saying that you should boycott Edinburgh Zoo. Like that that would get people more on side, I think. Whereas this sort of, well, the zoo's responding to a boycott call from campaigners, that kind of slightly discredits it a little bit. but Yeah, it stays mostly now within the zoo's.
00:33:19
Speaker
terms of the debate. Yeah. it It does. And I'd say it's better that it's in the newspaper than not. And true of of course, it's horrible that a red panda died. a few months ago, but there it's a lot easier to get a headline that is more anti the zoo. um And, you know, I assume those opportunities were taken there.
00:33:42
Speaker
Horrible to say opportunity when when an animal has died. But, you know, to get a story in your local newspaper that mentions animal rights on the 30th of June, assume you just take what you can get, you know?
00:33:56
Speaker
You're looking for the positives and I like it. Yeah. Here's what I would say in closing about zoos is that you do not go to prisons to observe what natural human behavior looks like and you don't go to zoos to observe what natural animal behavior looks like.
00:34:11
Speaker
m Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And if you did go to us ah to a prison to witness human behavior, and you could then go to a cafe and buy milk from the secretions of prisoners and eat burgers with the meat of those prisoners, you'd be going, what the hell's going on? And even some animal sanctuaries, like there is an ape sanctuary in Dorset in the south of the UK that serves meat, dairy, eggs, the lot. And it's a primate sanctuary.
00:34:46
Speaker
and And it's one of the most upset times I've been as a vegan, where you're surrounded by these people who feel like they care that, you know, the customers coming to visit this sanctuary saying, oh my goodness, that's awful. That animal was abused. Oh, thank goodness. It's in this sanctuary whilst eating a hot dog whilst, you know, licking an ice cream or what have you.
00:35:06
Speaker
Goodness me. So yeah. Yeah. Just not needed, are they? It's not the way forward. Not the way forward. Well, thank you again, Shane and Svenne, for those couple of stories that was we've been speaking about. Listeners, remember, if you're interested in reading more about these, we we're giving a summary, we're giving our take, but the stories are out there and we provide links to each of these stories on social media each week. That's right. And you can find us at Enough of the Falafel on Facebook and Instagram. And each of the stories we cover goes up on our account. So if you follow us, you'll get these stories into your feed.
00:35:44
Speaker
And social media is also a really easy and quick way to contact us. Shane, you manage our social media and love hearing from you, right? I do love hearing from you. dm me. ah Indeed, indeed. Just that directness. That is what we need, Shane. Thank you both. um So we've got one last story we're going to get our teeth into.
Legal Debate on Hare Coursing in Ireland
00:36:07
Speaker
It is about hair coursing, specifically a free vote for that's being urged on a bill seeking to ban hair coursing. So many listeners, you might not know what hair coursing is. Some of you might, some of you might directly try and oppose it and and take all kind of saboteuring efforts to do so. So it it just for a quick bit of background, it is a blood sport where dogs typically sight hounds like greyhounds or lurchers They are used to chase, catch and kill live hares in open fields. Sometimes can be associated with illegal gambling or just particularly disturbed people born in
00:36:56
Speaker
a culture where these sort of things are acceptable, just keep the practice going in the same way that I keep Morris dancing going, but with slightly more victims in the case of ah hair coursing. We won't necessarily go into the details of of how it works and and things like that. I think what we have said before on the show is that of all blood sports, it's sort of at the least fashionable end, I think it's fair to say, you know, you've you've got, i'm and i'm I'm speaking from a UK perspective here, but, you know, people that go out on their horses um fox hunting or pretending to not fox hunt, but they really are, that's generally held in reasonable esteem, comparatively speaking. whereas hair coursing is a bit more of a shady thing that you do and you don't really tell people about and it's a bit more shady. So People Before Profit are an organization where they are, they're saying they don't want this to happen and they have appealed to put pressure on political parties to allow for a free vote on legislation to ban hair coursing in Ireland.
00:38:12
Speaker
it is not legal to hair course in the UK. The Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2020, which proposed banning hair coursing on the ground of animal health and welfare, was debated at a second stage on Thursday of last week and a vote will take place shortly for the legislation to further proceed. The government have said that they are opposing the bill in Ireland. So, so, Shane, Svenna, you've had a look at this.
00:38:47
Speaker
what What key points are there you think that are relevant for listeners who are just coming across this news? We, you know, we've we've got a fair number of Irish listeners who may well already be gemmed up on this story, but for folk who've not come across this before, what what key pointers did you pick up on?
00:39:04
Speaker
Well, first of all, this hair coursing sounds horrible and really awful. And I was shocked by it to read about it because I was also not familiar with this sport, so to say. And it made me very angry to read that there was this politician who said, well, banning hair coursing would drive it underground and would make it unregulated. And therefore we should not accept the banning of it.
00:39:30
Speaker
And i mean, yeah, it just made me angry because morally it's such a weak defense. um If that logic were applied consistently, it would become impossible to prohibit anything, right? Just the fact that some people may break the law not by itself a reason to keep an activity lawful, not at all.
00:39:50
Speaker
And it's just a way to um I don't know, it feels a bit like a distraction instead of asking whether the practice itself is justified. People start asking whether it can be managed well and make it an issue of bureaucratic language and compliance rules and licenses and all these stuff. Whereas I think we should have the conversation about hair coursing more moral terms.
00:40:15
Speaker
So, yeah. That's such a good point because I mean, I feel like we hear that argument put forward for certain things that are currently illegal after maybe decades and decades of something being illegal. And it's like, m actually, maybe it being legal or partially legal.
00:40:35
Speaker
might cause less harm. That's different. And, i you know, i'm I'm not going to say whether I agree or disagree on on that sort of argument. But for something that, like, seems like it's an immoral thing, it's not just an argument in itself to say, well, it could be even worse. Well, shall we try?
00:40:53
Speaker
Shall we see if it gets even worse? And then if it does, maybe we could have this conversation. We'll know who to come back to, to where to raise that point. But it's not an argument in itself, is it? Yeah, it sounds way too easy to just assume that things will get worse once you ban these things. I don't think that's true. I don't think these hair coursing are now professionally run. I think there's many issues also. The rules are not really enforced because usually that's what we see right within in any animal industry. There are rules and they're not enforced. And I guess for hair coursing, it's just the same.
00:41:26
Speaker
So my understanding is that the dogs are supposed to be muzzled so that they can't actually kill the hares. And then i know that this is supposed to be in an open field, but they also said that in the last 15 years, 65,000 Irish hares have been captured from the wild.
00:41:45
Speaker
So I'm thinking, ah correct me if I'm wrong, is this like in a big stadium where people are watching dogs be released because... how How is this happening? They're catching the hairs and releasing them in a somewhere for the dogs to to chase them.
00:41:59
Speaker
i i I think so. i i I've not heard of this being done in any kind of a public way. I could be wrong. And I mean, you know, Mark is a regular contributor the show and will be able to put us right. And I think he he sent us this article to to comment on. He's unavailable to comment on it in in person this week. But whenever I have...
00:42:24
Speaker
seen of or heard of hair coursing. It's not happening in front of huge crowds or or anything like that. It's just a bunch of people going out to a field or a, you know, ah a network of fields and, and doing things like that.
00:42:40
Speaker
But so they capture the rat they capture the hairs and then they release them so that the that they're available to be chased and they don't have to think, oh, we might not find a hair today and then our sport is ruined.
00:42:54
Speaker
Well, I think it's also important to note that the government is opposing this. They're having that conversation in the Oireachtas right now. The government opposed to abolishing the practice and I mean, I assume that's because they have wealthy donors who enjoy it or Maybe the representatives are in the pocket of the mafia type people who are profiting off of illegal gambling.
00:43:15
Speaker
yeah um It sounded a lot to me like bear baiting and cock fighting. I mean, those kind of like really old, cruel sports. And in fact, if you will indulge me, I found a quote from Thomas Moore from 1516 on hair court. This might, you know, with the Morris dancing came about in that time. This is all within your wheelhouse, Anthony.
00:43:36
Speaker
We're all here with the hard-hitting contemporary news stories on this show. So yeah, let's hear from 1560. All right, so Thomas More said, Thou shouldst rather be moved with pity to see a silly innocent hare murdered of a dog, the weak of the stronger, the fearful of the fierce, the innocent of the cruel and unmerciful.
00:43:56
Speaker
Therefore, all this exercise of hunting is a thing unworthy to be used of free men. You heard it from Thomas More. um big From Big TM. Yeah. yeah Yeah, absolutely. it's some It's interesting, isn't it?
00:44:12
Speaker
The idea that a government would be opposed to this. It seems really odd. And the thing that comes to my mind is a fear of being seen as too progressive.
00:44:29
Speaker
of too dismissive of tradition. Like, i I don't know if that's Shane, Svenna, your guys' perception of this. it Like we we've got we've got folk on both sides of the argument here saying tradition is a reason to to follow a course of action. So the people who are saying hair coursing should be made illegal are saying, well, this is one of our only unique animals on this island. And they've they've been here for for hundreds of years and its cultural status is really important to us.
00:45:07
Speaker
And then you've got other people that are saying, well, this pastime is intrinsic to our culture and is really important. It um kind of makes you think it's a bit of a moot argument, really. Yeah, it's difficult.
00:45:19
Speaker
Always when this tradition argument pops in, and things can get really tense. And I just hope we realize that traditions are always on the move and will always be on the move also in the future so we can change things and yeah be open-minded.
00:45:36
Speaker
And tradition should not be preserved if it is cruel or unethical or wrong. Then you then that is a tradition that should not be preserved just because it's tradition doesn't make it sacred.
00:45:48
Speaker
you know You have to look at the tradition in the context of ah brighter at broader issues. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you don't have to go too far back in history to find the people of Ireland being horribly oppressed and treated by their neighbors ah ah across the water in in Britain. So, you know, that that that's seen as a thing that shouldn't continue. So yeah I'm not equating that with hair coursing, but tradition's not an argument in and of itself, is it?
00:46:21
Speaker
No. Well, by the time this show comes out, I think we will be a couple of days from hearing whether this proposed ban is going to be taken to the next stage of debate and thrashing it out in the Irish government. So, Fingers crossed that goes the way that we want it.
00:46:42
Speaker
Thank you very much, Shane. Thank you very much, Svenna, and for being on the show and for the things that you have contributed. Listeners, we know that you've got opinions too. We might have missed something. We might have said something that you think completely the opposite too. There might be other stories that we could have featured this week or in subsequent weeks. So either way,
00:47:03
Speaker
We want to hear from you. Shane is the one with the good memory here and he's going to remind us of the email address because i Shane, I just keep forgetting it. It's enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. I'll write it down this time. Thank you. Yes, please. I have to tell you every episode. um We read and respond to emails sent by listeners and we will feature them on our mailbag shows unless you tell us not to.
00:47:30
Speaker
Indeed. And if you are still with us at this point if the show in the show, there's a good chance that you like what we're doing. In which case, I'm just going to tell you that we've got a Ko-Fi page, which is a way of you making a financial contribution to the show.
00:47:44
Speaker
Only if you want to, only if you can afford to. It's fine if you don't, but that money goes towards getting us nicer microphones so that the show is nicer to listen to for you. So follow the link in the show notes. You can give as little as a pound or a euro or a dollar per month.
00:48:02
Speaker
That's right. And you can also rate us or leave a review on your podcast player. Please subscribe to the show, which tells your podcast player that we are a great show, as well as giving you alerts when new episodes drop. And you can tell people about the show and share this episode. Yay. Thank you everyone for listening. The next Enough of the Falafel episode coming out will be a vegan talk episode. And that's going to be available from Thursday, the 9th of July.
00:48:27
Speaker
it will feature Anthony, Mark and me. And it's guys, it's a great episode. Tune in. It's discussing meat and masculinity. That's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you, Ant and Shane, for your contribution. And thank any anyone of you out there for listening. We definitely appreciate you.
00:48:43
Speaker
I've been Svenne, and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:48:53
Speaker
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00:49:03
Speaker
We use music and special effects by zapsflat.com. And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:49:34
Speaker
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00:49:55
Speaker
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00:50:09
Speaker
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