Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
286- Vegans vs YouTube
1 Playsin 19 hours
Who knew Anthony would get so angry about youtube?! Last week marked the first ever international summit to discuss ways to combat the online abuse of animals. Really important stuff was discussed, all to help improve outcomes for animals...but apparently Anthony isn't satisfied. Hear him rant here! In addition, Shane & Mark discuss several other news stories amongst the animal rights & vegan headlines from the last seven days.
Thanks Kate for compiling this week's show content.
Like what we do? Want to help it sound even better? Join our KoFi gang here: https://ko-fi.com/ENOUGHOFTHEFALAFEL
Thanks to Neil, Shane & Alex for their continued Ko-Fi support!
****************
Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
******************
This week's stories:
https://plantbasednews.org/news/celebrities/kevin-bacon-swap-meat-for-beans/
https://vegconomist.com/fairs-events/happyvore-targets-guinness-world-record-paris-plant-based-barbecue/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwylx1vq18zo
https://www.humaneworld.org/en/blog/win-save-our-bacon-act-excluded-from-US-senate-farm-bill-draft
https://veganfta.com/articles/2026/06/23/south-african-veterinarians-back-growing-demand-to-end-live-animal-sea-exports/
https://vegconomist.com/rd/finally-foods-completes-final-field-trial-confirms-full-casein-expression-potatoes/
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/21/us/politics/animal-rights-cruelty-oregon.html
https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15907689/Farm-worker-repeatedly-kicking-pigs-faces-jail.html
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZ7u_ZPDXqW/
https://www.asiaforanimals.com/post/smacc-global-summit-2026
https://www.huntsabs.org.uk/guilty-hunt-sabs-secure-first-ever-conviction-against-a-basset-pack/
****************
Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Shane, Mark & Anthony
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Vegan Stereotypes
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Vegan Week. If you're looking for vegan and animal rights news, you've come to the right place. I'm Shane and joining me for this episode are Mark and Anthony.
00:00:12
Speaker
But that's enough of the falafel. It's time for Vegan Week. So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter is used for. Brrr! Take your flat-grown meat elsewhere.
00:00:26
Speaker
We're not doing that in the state of Florida. Should I call the medium and say, hi, sorry? True education. younger generation are getting know how brutal these practices are.
00:00:36
Speaker
That leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems with things. What is this? What kind of movie is this? It's comedy. Go on the media. Any form of social injustice has...
Show Overview & Accessibility
00:00:49
Speaker
another as long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all right does veganism give him superpowers
00:00:59
Speaker
cannot fly around the city i don't have laser vision hello everyone this is mark here welcome to the show and thank you for being here hey everyone anthony here thank you for being here everyone um if this is your first time listening to and enough of the falafel podcast this show is vegan week this is where we look at the last seven days or so of vegan and animal rights news some of the stories we'll comment on others will just very quickly say what's happened and and then move on but hopefully a a nice selection of things for you we do other shows if you look in your podcast provider you'll see the different types of stuff we do but it's not just news so check it out if you haven't already yes and remember you can read the original news reports for all the stories we cover in the show this week just check the show notes in your podcast player and follow the links indeed and final bit of housekeeping from us if you are somebody that likes to have a written transcript with you or that you know somebody that could only access the show in a written format rather than audio format we do have these transcripts available if you head over to our hosting page so that's zencaster.com forward slash vegan week it's vegan hyphen week.
00:02:12
Speaker
On there, you've got the auto-generated transcripts. They're not done by hand by us. It's sort of AI software, so it it won't be 100% accurate, but we figure it's better than nothing. So check that out if you want. And I often listen to the show in Spotify and it just automatically generates those up to when when you're looking at it. So lots of accessibility options for you. But that's enough of the fluff. Let's hear what's been going on this week. All right. Thanks,
Kevin Bacon's Meat Swap Campaign
00:02:38
Speaker
guys. So as we've been doing in our last few episodes, I'm going to give you five quick stories, just a summary. And if you're interested in finding out more, you know how to do that. Our first story is Kevin Bacon wants you to swap meat for beans one day per week.
00:02:55
Speaker
So actor Kevin Bacon has a new public service announcement out to encourage people to swap meat for beans on Wednesdays to improve health, harm fewer animals, and protect the planet.
00:03:07
Speaker
The effort is in conjunction with Humane World for Animals, and in it, Kevin Bacon jokes about changing his name to Kevin Bean in recognition of Beans Day.
00:03:18
Speaker
Our next article comes from
Happy Vore's Record Attempt & Tribute to Mona Khalil
00:03:21
Speaker
Vegconomist. And actually today, June 29 in Paris, the French plant-based meat producer Happy Vore, that's V-O-R-E, will attempt to set a Guinness World Records title for the largest plant-based barbecue gathering.
00:03:37
Speaker
The record is measured by the number of participants and attendees will be served food from Happy Voor's barbecue range, including its chipolatas and sausages, which the company says are among its top selling products. So if you went to that today, I hope you enjoyed it In a little bit sadder news, this comes from the BBC. The Lebanese environmental activist Mona Khalil, whose work helped turn a stretch of coastline in southern Lebanon and into one of the eastern Mediterranean's most important nesting sites for endangered sea turtles, has died after being wounded in an Israeli strike.
00:04:12
Speaker
She was injured when her house on Mansouri Beach near the southern city of Tyre was hit during Israeli attacks in southern Lebanon. She later died in the hospital. For more than 25 years, Khalil dedicated herself to protecting endangered loggerhead and green sea turtles that nest along Lebanon's southern coast.
00:04:30
Speaker
Friends and colleagues said she remained committed to her work despite years of conflict in southern Lebanon. Quote, her love for the turtles was evident in every word and every action, but so was her love for people.
00:04:42
Speaker
That perhaps is Mona's greatest legacy. She did not only protect turtles, she inspired people to care about them.
Animal Welfare in Legislation: US & South Africa
00:04:49
Speaker
In better news, we head to the United States where the Senate Agriculture Committee's Farm Bill draft has rejected the pork industry's attempt to include language that would roll back state-level animal welfare and public health laws that address the cruelties of intensive confinement.
00:05:05
Speaker
In the previous two farm bills, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle opposed the attempts to override state animal protection. The fight to get rid of the Save Our Bacon Act is not over, but it's a substantial win, and it makes it harder for pork lobbyists and pork rolling senators to maneuver once the farm bill comes to the Senate floor for a vote.
00:05:24
Speaker
And finally, we are heading to South Africa. South Africa's campaign to end the export of live animals by sea has gained significant traction after the South African Veterinary Association publicly supported a ban on the practice.
00:05:39
Speaker
The shift follows years of advocacy from animal protection organizations who argue that transporting animals long distances for slaughter abroad causes unavoidable suffering. And those are the summaries of a few stories happening around the world.
00:05:53
Speaker
And now let's bring in Antony and Mark for an in-depth discussion of our next story.
Innovations in Vegan Products & Market Challenges
00:05:58
Speaker
So this first story, I'm going to come to Antony first, and it comes from Vegeconomist again, and it is about the Israeli molecular farming company, Finally Foods, which claims to have harvested potatoes expressing all four casein subunits. I don't think I've ever said that word aloud, but I think that's how you say it, within a single plant.
00:06:18
Speaker
Anthony, what are your thoughts on the story? Is it another nail in the coffin of cow's milk or not yet? um Well, we can hope in the long term. I don't think this is going to do it by itself. This is a classic vegconomist story. if you i mean I mean, I do like vegconomist. A lot of their content is focusing on new technology, R&D, and how cell-based meat or how you know milk from cactuses is... is taking off in Bermuda and and and things like that. Sometimes it can get a bit tedious and a bit tenuous. This one is, it seems like the main distinction, wishing feature on this is that all four bits of casein, all four casein subunits,
00:07:05
Speaker
can be grown from the one plant, from the from the one thing, which apparently makes it better. i't I don't think it's necessarily worth their while going into why that might be or why it might not be. it It doesn't seem like a black and white argument. It seems like they're sort of saying, well, we think this makes our plant milk much better than the opponent's one. So i don't really think that's relevant to to animal rights or or veganism. Really, it's interesting that people are developing this it that they're with a lot of dairy-based alternatives, or sorry, not dairy-based alternatives, alternatives to dairy.
00:07:41
Speaker
It seems like casein is, if not the final frontier, but it seems to be part of of the picture, part of the puzzle that is often focused on, oh, well, we need it to have, you know, the same sort of thing as casein. We need it to be stretchy like casein. We need it to have the same molecules as casein or what have you. I'm not convinced that people care. I think The thing that matters is how similar it is in taste. And i was I was thinking about this before we were recording. And Mark, Shane, I'd be interested in your opinion on this. I was trying to think of any plant-based equivalents that we think are so similar in taste that carnists don't care or would just happily swap between them. I could only think of oat milk as the only one where...
00:08:33
Speaker
I know people who are not vegan, but that choose to have oat milk because they're, or don't mind oat milk because they're like, oh, it's more or less the same. But to be honest, I couldn't think of any equivalents where people would genuinely be ambivalent and be like, oh yeah, fine, I'll i'll have that. ah Do you guys know of any? I gave a friend of mine, I cooked him some impossible mince a few days ago.
00:08:57
Speaker
in a spaghetti bolognese and as far as he was concerned, he he's a meat eater, as far as he was concerned, it it it tasted not the exact same, but as as good it satisfied all the bits in in your mouth, all the umami, whatever, as far as he was he was concerned, it was it was a perfectly acceptable meat alternative.
00:09:18
Speaker
Yes. So I'd say stuff like that. So you you you mentioned stretch there, Anthony. I think they're they're they're aiming to get it like a cheese on a pizza. So it it melts and stretches when you pull it apart. And apparently this is a big deal in the meat and dairy world, right? I can sort of understand the sort of...
00:09:38
Speaker
the aesthetic pleasing sort of visual nature of that but and it you know it doesn't affect the taste but ah it is something that they they hang a lot of value on that the the sort of ability to be able to mimic cheese in in that sense not not necessarily just in the taste but in the way it stretches as well and case and it seems is the golden ticket for for for that. A question i I would like to put to to a people doing this and precision fermentation because it's positioned itself as an alternative to precision fermentation dairy. okay It's molecular dairy. So it's it's its it's the next gear up from precision fermentation is this sort of molecular presentation of food, you know, and they're opposing the Precision for for fermentation and people. Now, I do know that ah dairy milk from a mammal has a morphine mu molecule attached to the casein protein.
00:10:37
Speaker
ah So becomes casomorphine. do Do the alternative dairy people include morphine? in their product the the way mammals do. Would it be generally recognised as safe? Would it pass that test from from the US FDA? It's 2% morphine. And if not, and and presumably not, then it's going to affect the stretch and taste and everything, isn't it? you know I mean, if if you're taking out... on ah ah I'm not sure how vital the morphine molecule is to the end result of dairy cheese, you know?
00:11:13
Speaker
But I know it's in there, so I do wonder about that, you know? i i still I'm still not convinced that it's it's going to actually make difference. I don't i don't mean to sound negative. I think I'm just saying I think our focus should be elsewhere. Shane, have you experienced things where... Like Mark's example of...
00:11:31
Speaker
like somebody tasting mints and saying, oh yeah, that's that's basically the same. I've experienced that too. but But actually, if it doesn't convince that person to then start buying it for themselves, it only applies when they go around Mark's house or whatever. yeah Whereas with oat milk, I have seen that change. People saying, oh, now I buy oat milk. Have you ever experienced? Yeah, I was going to say that I think that oat milk is pretty popular milk substitute. I'll see a lot of people order that when I go to like a coffee shop.
00:11:59
Speaker
But what this story made me think about was that article that we covered, of i don't know if it was like month or so ago, about the studies that they did on the taste the tasting test studies.
00:12:11
Speaker
And that was one of the things that the people that... ate dairy commented about that they didn't have this, the, the alternatives to cheese didn't have that stretchiness. It didn't have that, that taste and the ice creams and the yogurts and everything. So that is really important to get people to want to try it. And that's, this is targeting exactly what those complaints were about the dairy alternatives. Yeah. know we like to be critical in a a sort of analytical way and not too emotional about these things. And I i think that's a strength of of our show, that we we don't just kind of lead with emotion and just go, rah, rah, rah, rah. But I have to say, with with taste comparisons and things like that, that is one area of veganism, and animal rights. I just feel like screaming at people, like it's just so babyish, so childish to get oh, it doesn't taste exactly like, like, come on, is surely 80% close is good enough. Surely 90% close. the The analogy I always go with is if you found out that apples were deeply rooted in exploitation and oppression and it would, apples were just horrendous, but pears weren't.
00:13:27
Speaker
I know they don't taste the same, but like, surely you just switch. Surely you'd just be like, oh, well, I'll go without apples. Then I'll have pear juice. I'll have pear pie. I'll have pear based smoothies. Like grow up seriously. oh gosh.
00:13:45
Speaker
That's my rant. That's not how people are. They're so, they're very picky about their food, you know? Aren't they, Shane? Aren't they? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, well done finally foods. Well well done. I, I, I do take what they're saying with a pinch of salt, you know, these claims that they're making that it's really important for people and this is a breakthrough. Well, that's their PR department talking, isn't it? So good luck to them. But I remain to be convinced that that's going to be the the tipping point, but who knows?
00:14:14
Speaker
Well, im i I will definitely try it if it comes to a market close to me. Let's move on from there to the United States. And Mark, I'm gonna come to you first for this story out of Oregon.
00:14:26
Speaker
And this is where animal rights activists are attempting to gather enough signatures to put a measure on the November ballot that would give all animals the same protections from cruelty that Oregon grants to dogs and cats.
00:14:41
Speaker
So that means hunting, trapping, and fishing would essentially be outlawed along with scientific research on animals, lethal pest control, and conventional livestock production. But the thing about this article is that The Democrats are opposing this measure, which they haven't yet gotten on the ballot. They're still gathering signatures. So, Mark, are you surprised that the so-called Liberal Democrats aren't supporting this effort?
Animal Rights Legislation & Corporate Accountability
00:15:08
Speaker
ah No, i'm not at all. And I do remember covering this story. it was a while back now. I think it was when it was just starting going. Have there been several of them, though? I don't think this is necessarily the same one. I think this is...
00:15:21
Speaker
I think this is ah a kind of thing that can be done across different states. i i think you're right. it's It's been done before, but i I think this is a new one. This is even the third attempt in Oregon to get them to share the ballot.
00:15:36
Speaker
okay all right good Because what will happen is they'll get a certain number of signatures and then they'll throw out some of the signatures. And so now they have they're trying to get way over that amount of signatures. I mean, I don't know if they'll get enough signatures, but...
00:15:50
Speaker
okay Okay, okay. It's slander then, at least, and it sounds now to me more like a publicity stunt, a bit Peter-ish. there's There's no way it's going to to fly. I mean, it's just as far as i mean i mean call call me a negative old cynic, but it it just seems to be about getting press, and it's getting press.
00:16:11
Speaker
So I don't think it's it's even taking itself seriously. I could be wrong, but... But the the problem with the Democrat ah Party over in the States and the same with the Republican is that it's so big tent that you get people from all walks of society in there legitimately enough. you know So you get hunters, trappers, fishers and vegans okay all joining the same party for different reasons and similar reasons in in some areas. but um And it creates sort of conflict like this where
00:16:45
Speaker
i'm I'm not sure if this is a democratic initiative or coming from a a democratic voting person or a base, but that there is no way it's going to get any sort of traction apart from maybe the the ah Green Party over in the States, which is tiny and sort of it has remained tiny since unfortunately with with Ralph Nader, who would make an excellent president. It's such a loss there, i think. you know But yeah, so no, it doesn't surprise me that the left-wing liberal to Democrat Party are opposing this because there are speciesists as the right-wing MAGA lot. you know it's it's it's It's the same really sort of... thinking so no they're opposed to it because it portrays them or people who might be voting for this as totally extreme and anti-social and all the rest of it and putting them in a bad light so they're they're it's the it's the radical frank and the moderate wing you know it maybe this is all tactical but um yeah it sounds like a headline raising initiative more than anything else
00:17:47
Speaker
I think you hit the nail on the head, Mark, when you said this this looks like a Peter campaign. I mean, it's it's not, but that was my first thought too, in terms of it's a radical ask from David mit mitchcheson Michelson. I mean, the New York Times really true portray him in a negative light, in my opinion, in that they you know they not only say, well, he's the petition's organiser.
00:18:13
Speaker
They mention the fact that he's vegan. And they also mention the fact that he's a substitute teacher. It's like they're just layering it up. Is that a dig? Yeah, I think so. I think so. They could have just called him a teacher. you know what mean? If he's a qualified teacher, call him a qualified teacher. time teacher. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, i I feel like what he's going for in this ask is obviously way too big. Maybe it's a cathartic thing. that he's doing, maybe like you say, Mark, maybe it's a strategic thing, maybe it's publicity thing, maybe he's hoping that there can be some sort of subsidiary benefit from it. But I, the reason I,
00:18:51
Speaker
don't like it when Peter do things like this is I think the vast majority of people who just read the headline will think that that's what vegans expect to happen.
00:19:01
Speaker
yeah And obviously it's what we want to happen. Of course, wave a magic wand, animal rights, you know, the following day. Great, but but like we we're not completely naive. We don't expect it to happen. And in a world where it's too easy to just read the headline and then move on, I think it risks portraying us as completely out of touch, which weighed up against any potential subsidiary benefits that that might come from this. Yeah.
00:19:31
Speaker
i don't I don't know if that's worth it in the long run. And I mean, it'd be fascinating to to hear from David Michelson-Mikkelson or Peter from like, what's the actual end goal of of of this type of thing? Have you calculated it? Have you done data on on this sort of thing to see what actually in the long run, the benefits do outweigh the costs? Because there are definitely costs. And we're we're going to talk about later stories that really do seem to be making an impact. Shane at the top of the show read out five headlines, many of which were were campaigns that I think and actions that that do outweigh the the drawbacks and the risks of them. And i I just worry that things like this might just be vegans who are feeling a bit rubbish about the world, understandably,
00:20:23
Speaker
doing something a bit cathartic. Like I live less than two minutes walk from a butcher shop. Like I live in a small village and one of the only shops is a butcher's. I could go out tonight and smash it up.
00:20:34
Speaker
it's It's not really going to do much for the movement or for animals in the long run. I might feel good for a bit, but but I think we've got to be a bit more strategic than that if we possibly can.
00:20:46
Speaker
So the this activist was actually interviewed on our hen house about, I don't know, maybe six weeks, two months ago. great. And it was very interesting what he had to say. And um I mean, he does not. So if he gets, first of all, the objective is to get the measure on the ballot, to get the 350,000 or whatever signatures to get the measure on the ballot.
00:21:09
Speaker
then no, he does not expect that it will actually pass because he doesn't, you know, people will read it and they're going to say, no, I don't agree with that. And they're they're not going to vote for it. But is it worthwhile to get that on the ballot just to raise the point of how we're treating animals other than cats and dogs and to bring attention to that. I think that's what he's trying to do. I mean, this is a, he's making a real effort. You know, he's probably substitute teaching. So he has time because he's out gathering signatures all the time, all day, you know, more than he needs so that he can verify them. It's not just a publicity stunt. I don't think. So, um anyway, i just, is it worthwhile to do that? Or, i mean, obviously, the the point of this article is talking about how even Democrats aren't supporting this and Republicans are jumping with joy because now they can be like, look how crazy those Democrats are. Look what they're doing. Yeah.
00:22:04
Speaker
even though I don't know if this guy's a Democrat or not, but. No, I mean, i'm I'm really grateful to know that there is, you know, a readily accessible interview with with this guy. And, you know, we're big fans of ah our hen house, you know, on this show. So i will definitely give that a listen. And I think, you know, i've I've given my opinion there on whether I think it's a good idea or not, or I'm speculating. The fact is with most of animal rights strategies, we don't know, do we? We don't know what's effective. We're, ah To use a non-vegan phrase, we're stabbing in the dark. Really, there are certain things that we're pretty certain work and certain things we're pretty certain don't work. But the vast majority, we don't know. So in a sense, all bets are off and we've got to just give stuff a go. So all all power to him.
00:22:49
Speaker
And I think we would have all argued a few months ago that the action that happened at Ridgeland Farms was not going to work and it was not worthwhile. And now they are closing and all the and the beagles are coming out of there.
00:23:03
Speaker
So, you know, you never know. Yeah, absolutely. I am going to come to Anthony first on this next story. And this one is coming um from the Animal Justice Project. And our friend Kate, who ah recently went out to support the Animal Justice Project outside the notorious Cranswick Slaughterhouse in Watton. I hope that's how you say that.
00:23:23
Speaker
Sent um this story to us. She was really thrilled to see a truck parked in front of the company offices for about two hours. And the truck was calling attention to the pigs being killed in gas chambers. And right now, treatment of pigs is in the headlines in the UK after the Animal Justice Project captured undercover footage of a farm worker in Norfolk abusing pigs. That's what this story is about, that the farm worker was filmed abusing the pigs and he's facing jail time.
00:23:51
Speaker
So, Anthony, what did you make of this story? Do you think it matters that the company who owns and controls the farm um Its CEO, who is named Dewey Jones, and the farm manager, Nigel Walpole, have also been charged, not just this one worker.
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah, that was the highlight thing for me. like that's That's huge because so often we see that it is the working class person, very often somebody who is a you know first or second or third generation immigrant, um taking whatever work they can get,
00:24:28
Speaker
And yes, behaving reprehensibly, like you know I'm not defending anything that and that this chap has done. he's He's rightly been convicted. But so often the big corporation and you know the manager, the CEO or whatever,
00:24:44
Speaker
They will throw these people under the bus. They'll protect themselves. They'll say, oh, no, they they weren't following our procedures. So, you know, that they were wrong, despite the fact that, you know, they will have had a suspicion and or they will have known that this was going on. But they they protect themselves and they they turn their back. on the person who has done awful things, but just to to protect themselves. So yeah, that was a real brilliant bit of of news from this one. Fantastic that they've been charged, remains to be seen
00:25:19
Speaker
what actual sentencing and and what consequences there are for this. Because actually, like, I mean, me and Carlos, I seem to remember it was, did a episode about 12 months ago. We were talking about various bits of law relating to to animal rights and and punishments that are so often really, really small. And he's pleaded guilty, the main perpetrator here, he's pleaded guilty. And that the hints from this article are that, oh, well, he probably won't be able to work with animals again. so yeah, duh. So we shall see what the the big wigs get for this one. But, yeah, that was definitely a positive thing for sure. I think it's fascinating, yeah, ah to echo your point, Anthony, I think it's fascinating that the higher-ups who aren't directly involved but are controlling the whole operation are also in trouble. Because, as you say, they just typically say, ah that isn't part of our written practice and that guy is violating our
00:26:19
Speaker
our own codes and and he's out the door, you know and and and they portray them themselves as sort of the good guys, as almost the victim in the whole thing. So it's good to see them getting attention. It'll send shivers down the spine farmers everywhere, and so it should. I think it's brilliant the way nowadays you can use these tiny, covert recording devices on tops of poles or you know in barns and all the rest of it that are placed there at nighttime to gather this sort of footage. When that was tried here and was tried quite extensively here and people built up a big profile of evidence against specific farms, against their abuse,
00:26:59
Speaker
of baby piglets and when the evidence was presented to the magistrates it it was it was a it was thrown out because it was it was it was a gathered through illegal means it seems in the uk that that isn't the case that even if you violate someone's privacy or whatever by gathering evidence as an independent citizen it's it's still valid in a court of law it seems because i think that's how this footage was i get gathered right by the animal justice people just going in at night time sort of covertly and putting it there so it's good to see that the system recognising and recognising illegally gathered evidence yeah i mean fantastic work from the animal justice project and we've put a link in the show notes relating to the work that they've done that shane was referring to at the top of this news story with the big tanker that's drawing people's attention to gas chambers that that pigs are killed in. And that's got Peter Egan talking over it. He is an actor and activist, and he does a lot of work with Animal Justice Project. Fantastic speaker. I've been lucky enough to to meet him and and see him talk. and
00:28:09
Speaker
he's just a brilliant animal advocate and does so not in a sort of debate me, bro. Veganism's correct. Anyone who says otherwise is right. Like he just is really concise, really humble. And I think he's great as, as are the animal justice projects are all power to them.
00:28:28
Speaker
And I like how Kate put these stories together because she's showing that, yes, you've got this guy who was abusing the pigs, but the whole industry is abusing pigs, even you know when it's lawful you know with the gas chambers and stuff. that So doesn't that you can't do this without abusing the animals. Yeah, and actually it's it's really interesting. at this At the top of this Daily Mail article, we've got animal abuser convicted and then the the sort of sub headline farm worker film repeatedly kicking pigs and hitting them with a pitchfork is facing jail after pleading guilty to animal cruelty. And then the next bit of text says, warning distressing content. Now, my first thought was, well, that just the fact that you've got footage from an animal farm, it doesn't matter what anyone's doing, That is distressing content. And you know the the mention of gas chambers, like if you if you were to just film an empty concentration camp, that to me is distressing content. you know And i'm I'm not saying I'm unique and want all carnists, stupid or what have you. But it's really interesting that disconnect, isn't it? In that you know a site like the Daily Mail,
00:29:40
Speaker
feels like it needs to say, warning, there's distressing content here. Like pigs are about to, you're about to see pigs getting hit. Why they there? They're going to be killed and eaten.
00:29:50
Speaker
Look at the conditions they're in. That stuff isn't distressing. It's not seen as distressing and all the more reason why. great organizations like animal justice project and just all of us individuals as vegan like it's it's it's a big awareness raising exercise that we're part of and it's going to take a while and it's already taken a while but like we'll get through to people you know over time i'm sure I hope so. Let's move on to the first ever global summit to end online animal
Addressing Online Animal Cruelty & Legal Precedents
00:30:20
Speaker
cruelty. Mark, this story comes from Asia for Animals, and it details the world's first international summit dedicated exclusively to addressing online animal cruelty. held by the Social Media Animal Cruelty Coalition, the SMACC. What were your thoughts on this story, Mark? I mean, do you think this is going to actually have any impact? and I guess it's good that it's been talked about. It isn't something that that i that I'd given much thought to myself, actually. So it seems to be a zoning in specifically on...
00:30:51
Speaker
online on online abuse which i presumably means people recording the torture of animals yeah like on some on things on youtube or instagram so i guess it's in response to this happening i mean it's it's been an ongoing thing in older forms of media i remember there being a thing called crush videos where people sort of recorded themselves standing on tiny animals in stilettos and things like that really odd with the pseudo-sexual sort of angle to it, I think. And so, I mean, it's always been there and this is just this in its modern day presentation, but it's ah because the internet is so ubiquitous, it's going to be a lot more widespread. I mean, it's it's it's the animal version of of child abuse online, I suppose.
00:31:35
Speaker
So it's good that it's been addressed. and There is things that they can do about it because these these people do have a lot of influence, the platform owners themselves I'm talking about. So it's good that it's been recognized and addressed. Whether it'll have any teeth sort of remains to be seen because these things tend to be old talk and no sort of action and ah a lot of the times, especially if they're coming from the corporations themselves.
00:32:00
Speaker
So um it remains to be seen. But yeah, it's it's it's one angle that I i hadn't really sort of folk thought much about. But I guess it's quite prevalent, you know. i so I think, first of all, well done, Asia for Animals Coalition for for reporting on this. Well done for the folk who thought it would be a good idea to call together this summit. It's perhaps a side point here but do we not think it is a bit wasteful of the earth's resources to say right we need to talk about online security online safety here um how should we all get together should we do a zoom call no no no let's fly people literally from 30 countries across six continents to Bali what what no no no Bali's got enough people descending on its naturally beautiful place and you know
00:32:50
Speaker
Making it less naturally beautiful. like we're We're talking about online things. like Why do we need to be in the same place? Anyway, that is a side point. I noted lots of... Oh, yes, yes, yes. We're taking this very seriously from YouTube um and TikTok here. We've got Danny Ardianto, YouTube Head of Government Affairs and Public Policy for Southeast Asia. Gosh, that sounds important, doesn't it? It's very easy for corporations to say, oh, yes, yes, of course, we're taking this seriously.
00:33:19
Speaker
YouTube, you can't find out how much profit YouTube made last year, but you can find out how much revenue they took. $60 billion dollars revenue they took last year.
00:33:32
Speaker
Whilst they have overheads, whilst they have costs, I reckon it's slightly less than $60 billion dollars somehow. I think if they were motivated by doing the right thing,
00:33:45
Speaker
They could maybe slow down their growth a little bit. I'm picking on YouTube here and this could apply to any big Capitalist tech company that is expanding at an exponential rate They could sacrifice a little bit of their growth to spend a bit of time and spend a bit of money on doing the right thing for people, for society as a whole, rather than just this exponential growth. And i think they do very well by pointing appointing very good PR people to say the right thing when you have conferences like this. I was disappointed to see that one of the conclusions of the conference was, oh, well, governments need to do more. Well,
00:34:31
Speaker
I'm sure governments could do more. And and and of of course, we don't want to say that governments shouldn't do anything. But actually, everyone needs to take responsibility. And if we are in a free market capitalist world, then kind of the toothpaste is already out of the tube here. Like we've chosen money, we've chosen capitalism over government, I i would argue. so actually it's up to corporations to to do the right thing as well. and And, you know, we can hold them to account and and put pressure on. But I really think it's very easy for for YouTube, for Facebook, for Instagram and and and all of these companies to say, well, we're well we're we're doing the best we can.
00:35:12
Speaker
Are you? Are you? Because you've got enough money. You could be doing more. I've not got the answers, but I'm certain they could be doing more. Totally agree, Ant. I think they like to get in early at these things so that so that they they then can control the the and the narrative. And of course, they're going to point the finger at government and not at themselves. It's actually them that technically control these platforms and can do a lot more. All all government would do is put pressure on the companies to do more Anoway.
00:35:40
Speaker
So, why don't the companies just get in there beforehand if they're so much better than the state as they claim to be, then ah why quite um why don't they get get in there now and actually um do do something about it? I think, yeah, it's it's a it's a lot of window dressing and and so remains to be seen if anything practical sort of comes out of something And i i i know i know a lot of the points I'm making here are not directly about animal rights or veganism, but I i think it's about social injustice. and And, you know, all social injustices are linked, as Nasia says during our musical intro. But like organisations like Facebook, they have made their billions, but...
00:36:20
Speaker
by constructing algorithms that prioritize strong reactions over truth or what is good. Like, you know, they are they are exploiting human psychological traits, like deeply seated psychological traits that most of us are not aware of. And thank goodness there have been very intelligent people who've drawn attention to these things with documentaries, with books, with podcasts and what have you. But like they have designed their product and their service to prioritise things that make them money and keep people hooked, rather than what makes the world better or what helps people. And you know we we really need to spread that awareness, I believe, alongside spreading awareness of injustices like animal exploitation or racism or homophobia or whatever you know they're all important things but I think until we understand that sort of thing and and see past it and really hold hold these organizations and these causes to account we're we're just going to keep feeding them um and that I think that is how
00:37:29
Speaker
animal abuse online will be shared around as readily as it is, partly. Obviously, there's people who are mentally unwell and are putting it out there in the first place and wanting to circulate it. But the fact that it will be prioritized because people will have a strong reaction to it Really, you ought to be able to press a button and just say, this this is horrendous and should not be on here. And you know YouTube or Facebook will say, oh, no, we have those buttons. Well, they're not working. They're not big or strong enough because actually the fact that it's viral or that it it gets a reaction
00:38:07
Speaker
tends to give it more airtime. And, you know, that that's not just the case with animal abuse too, you know, all sorts of stuff that that makes the world a bit less better is subject to that. So let's let's hope that that needle can can swing in the next 10, 20 years, and because it's been swinging the wrong way, in my opinion, at that at the start of the 21st century. Well, I'm not on the side of the social media corporations, but I do sympathize with the issues of controlling this because every time they maybe set a parameter, there's some way to get around that. Like for example, on TikTok, there's certain words that if you say in your video, they're gonna get your content taken down. And like one of those words is like killed or death. So then people instead will say,
00:38:59
Speaker
unalived, right? So there's always a way for the people to get around it. So every time, you know I'm sure like YouTube puts up something, then somebody finds a way to get around it. And then the other thing that I was thinking about is that these content moderators that they have a lot of these are real people who, you know, when something is reported and then it's, um, disputed, they have to go review that footage. And I've heard, you know, interviews and I've read interviews with these people and they are just traumatized. They often have to get therapy. Their lives are ruined from, i mean, imagine if your job was to sit there for six hours a day and look at abuse footage and, and graphic footage, uh, you know, so, um,
00:39:43
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know what the answer is. and i completely agree with you, Shane. And my point with regards to YouTube's annual revenue, like if you add up YouTube's and Facebook's and Instagram's and and and all of that, if you add up that revenue, that exceeds the revenue of of many countries. And each of those countries will have a police force and they'll have emergency forces where where people are trained and properly esteemed because the work that they do is important and it's harrowing and it's difficult, but it's seen as a valued important thing. And I think my point is these companies make a heck of a lot of money, but they will not be giving the
00:40:22
Speaker
the right pay, the right resources, the right amount of esteem to doing these things properly. And I don't think it's enough to to sort of send someone along to a conference every now and again and say, oh, we're doing our best. It's like, you're not, you're not, you're doing the bare minimum work.
00:40:40
Speaker
that you think you can socially get away with. And if your primary motivator, if your primary bottom line answerable to yourself and your shareholders and everything like that was doing the socially civically responsible thing to do, you'd be doing a heck of a lot more. Like these are intelligent people.
00:40:58
Speaker
if If they wanted to do a better job at this, they would. if If it made them three times as much money or 10 times as much money, to do this cybersecurity stuff well, they would do it well. So I- Or if it costs them money, if there was a financial penalty for things getting past them, yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hit them where it hurts.
00:41:20
Speaker
Well, good discussion, guys. I didn't know that we were going to have that much discussion on that article. Listeners, we've got one last article. And this is, ah we're back in the UK. And the title of the article is Guilty Hunt, Sab, Secure First-Ever Conviction Against Basset Pack. And it's discussing how Charlie Ford, a huntsman of the Devon and Somerset Bassets, was found guilty of a hunting act offense at Weymouth Magistrates Court on Thursday, the 18th of June, 2026. This is the first time a Basset PAC has been convicted under the hunting act. And Mark, I know you were particularly interested in this story. So let's come to you first. What were your takeaways from this story? First of all, it's it's a wonderful see to see the the Hunt Saboteurs Association still at it and still still gathering evidence and sabotaging hunts.
00:42:11
Speaker
The first hunt I ever sabbed was just outside Dublin and it was a basset pack. It was a foot pack. And foot packs are notoriously hard to find because they're not all on horseback wearing bright red and stuff this. But as soon as you do find them, it's really hard for them to lose you because everyone's on foot.
00:42:30
Speaker
And you're almost guaranteed a punch up because you just swarm all over them and you really spoil the day. I mean, it's hilarious. You know, as soon as you arrive, their faces drop because they know that they're they're stuck with you and it's really easy to sap. But these days they're they're at the lower end of the totem pole in the hunting world. They they always have been. So ah foot foot packs are hunters who can't afford horses.
00:42:54
Speaker
So they just ah decided to refine the sort of traditional fox hunt and go go out on foot. But but they but they wear jodipers and that this stupid uniforms and they have horns and all the rest of it, but they but but they're more working class. So they're looked they're looked down upon by their fox hunting betters and they have less protection from the police because they're they're less well connected. And farmers dislike them more because they aren't posh people. they're lower down the social ladder than farmers and they cause quite a bit of damage and on farmers fields if they're if they're hunting through a field of crops or whatever. So if you call the police these days,
00:43:34
Speaker
Back in the day, if you arrived at a basset pack, they would call the police and the police would come down and give you hassle. These days, because it's banned, it's one of the areas of hunting that has suffered the most from the ban, actually. The police will arrive and articles in the media the following day will will add sc describe these people as vandals and stuff. So it's it's a completely flipped in terms of their social currency. So yeah, it was really good to see. So the the problem was was that the hunt were were ah were pretending to hunt rabbits, which is legal,
00:44:04
Speaker
but were actually hunting hares, which is illegal. And a drone or something caught this footage. They were fined. I would like to point out the fact also that in the 25, 26 years since the ban, or 20 years, or whatever it's been, and the dozens upon dozens of convictions in court of hunters breaking the law, not one of them has ever refused to pay the fine. Now, if you recall, Anthony, just prior to the ban coming in, in 2004, think, the Countryside Alliance were saying, if this ban comes in, we'll go on a hunger strike, we'll start up. They were even talking about starting up like a quasi sort of terrorist sort of campaign and targeting MPs and breaking the law willingly and going to jail. ah
00:44:45
Speaker
Not one of them since has ever not paid the fine. And They've all sort meekly kowtowed to the courts. If it was the other way around and was animal rights activists, they were up in the dock, they'd be ending up in prison on hunger strike because they'd be refusing to pay these fines. It would be a big political sort of thing.
00:45:07
Speaker
These these are people have never so stood up to the courts or or to to the system ever and refused to pay the fine and got to prison instead and made and made a political stance out of this at all.
00:45:20
Speaker
so it just shows how cowardly they are and how much bluster there was around this before the ban as soon as it came in they were just meekly sort of you know going along with with the state really so it's good to see and i do know that that the government in in the uk is is in turmoil at the moment just at the time that they were about to bring in to close those loopholes in the hunting act so not sure that effect the timing couldn't be worse really i think within the same few weeks that the hunting act was meant to be debated again in the house department is the same time that andy burnham is coming in it's it's all a bit of a you know a flustered clock as they say but uh it would be good to see if this government does stick to
00:46:02
Speaker
and finally finish off the infrastructure of hunting for good but we'll say you mentioned mark that these guys when they are prosecuted they always pay the fines i think it's because the fines are so small like it i was really really flabbergasted how small it was like that'll be covered by the local local hunt members subscription fees next year won't it won't even touch the sides What strikes me with with this sort of stuff, I've not got the the same hands-on experience that Mark has of huntsabbing, but every time they're convicted, and and i'll I'll echo what Mark says, fantastic that the huntsabs are out there doing their thing at the top of their website. is their tip-off hotline. That is what led or that's what started the wheels turning for this one. I've seen hunts out before and been like, I know what to do, i don't know what to do, what don't know what to do. Just go on their website, there's the tip-off hotline, they've got the expertise, just just call in what you can see and and they'll tell you if there's any mileage in it. But every time these guys are caught, and up in the dock and it's being discussed. They lie. It's it's really bare-faced lying. It's so transparent. And it just got me thinking, like, we're at a point now where if there was a man outside a primary school...
00:47:23
Speaker
and in this country, and they said to a child, oh, do you want to come in my car? I've got some sweets. Or your mum has said that I can take you home. Or do you want to come round my house and meet my puppy? Enough times that has been shown to be false and a way of lying to to break the law and and get what you want, that even just saying those things would get you arrested. Like, you wouldn't there wouldn't even need to be discussion about it. And yet...
00:47:52
Speaker
Every time there's people dressed up in hunting gear saying, oh no, no, no, we we were we were um protecting the hedgerows from from rabbits with myxomatosis or, oh no, no, no, we weren't hunting a fox, we were doing this. We we take for, or the authorities take them at their word and it is up to volunteer activists to prove with expensive drones and footage, of course they were lying, here is the proof that they were lying. How many convictions do we need for the police and the authorities to be like, ah do you know what? They keep lying about what they're doing when they're in these uniforms with these hunting dogs. I think we should just assume that when they're out in those uniforms with those dogs, that they're doing something bad. We don't have to wait for the crime to to unfold. Excuse the poor analogy there, but it's it's just...
00:48:45
Speaker
flabbergasting And obviously part of the reason is because many members of the local constabulary are part of the hunt. That is the problem. But it's it is maddening, isn't it? But but well done, the hunt, Sabt, for this historic first ever conviction against the Bassett Pack. That's a a real um date for the diary, that one.
00:49:05
Speaker
So for the listeners who are not um that familiar with these types of hunts, there are other dogs usually used? Or is it just the fact that these that this was a foot pack and not necessarily that it was a bass they they were basset hounds in the pack?
00:49:20
Speaker
oh it's that is did did The the ah significant thing is that it was a foot pack, really. the ah Bassets are used in favor instead of beagles because of the terrain that they're hunting in or something like that. they They're lured to the ground, but they have better noses or something like this. So they fine-tuned the species dog that they use for these hunts. So on foot packs, it's usually bassets.
00:49:44
Speaker
and So when the article is talking about... you know, this is the first ever Basset pack that, that translates to it's the first foot pack basically. Okay. Okay. As opposed to, uh, uh, uh, riders, uh, mounted riders on a Fox hunt. These are guys on foot and the, and the significance is that. Okay. And and that actually, y'all explained a lot to me because i wasn't understanding really about the hare and the rabbit.
00:50:11
Speaker
And because the article goes into depth about how hares are in the middle of the field and rabbits are in the hedgerows and how they were in the middle of the field. so yeah Yeah, I can get pretty technical, the act. It's quite a a badly written, vague, ah contradictory, loophole-y law.
00:50:28
Speaker
And it was written in a rush, and it was more to do with the sort of revenge for the miners' strike than it was to do with serious animal welfare. So it it it was it was a good first start, but it really needs to be tightened up, basically. Looking at the pictures of these people dressed up doing their foot pack hunting, I went to a a board game expo a few weeks ago and outside the board game expo was like this thing where you could dress up as a Viking and you could pretend to be a Viking and you could you know have all the regalia and there were hundreds of people doing it. I was like, wow, I never knew this was a thing you could do with your Sunday. Like, if you like pageantry, if you like dressing up, if you like remembering the past and honouring things that used to happen, but but we don't live that way anymore, but, you know, we can still pretend as a hobby. There's loads of ways you can dress up and have fun in the countryside. that They need to...
00:51:21
Speaker
It'd be good to do some outreach to show them different ways of of enjoying dressing up in the countryside, having a bit of fun together without exploitation. It's perfectly possible.
00:51:32
Speaker
I think that the ah Fox Suns should turn to jousting instead, and then the rest of us could take bets on which one would have his head smashed in. And that would be thoroughly enjoyable. Yeah, but but giving each other piggybacks, obviously not on horseback.
00:51:45
Speaker
Right. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Well, listeners, if you've enjoyed the podcast or we've said something that resonates with you, please let us know. We're happy to hear your opinions and you can get in touch with us by d DMing us on Instagram or Facebook or by emailing us. Antony, what is our email?
00:52:03
Speaker
Well, Shane, I'm glad you asked. It is still enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. If you're worried about the spelling, just look at the show notes. We've got it written there. You just need to click it. and We read and respond to each email sent by listeners. Sometimes the the response time is a bit longer because if you've put a lot of effort into your email, like we want to respond to it properly. So it might not be an instant one we definitely read them we definitely respond to them eventually and we unless you tell us not to we'll feature them in in the show even if you're just saying hey love the show or actually this thing you said was incorrect we'll we'll feature it in the show because you know you're part of the show too um listening um we've got a mailbag show coming up in the next month or so so we love getting emails And yeah, it's always great to hear from you. We've we've got an episode coming out.
00:52:54
Speaker
Actually, it's going to be a month or so until we put it out there. But ah me, Shane and Sven, who has not been on the show yet, we're recording it next week. And that's... it very exciting email chain that's been going on for a little while where we've been given exclusive access to ah a film that's not really out yet. So our email feed is just, oh it's just at the forefront of vegan stuff going on. You wouldn't believe. So if you want to support this important work that we're doing and you have a few extra pounds or dollars or euros and you want to throw them our way, you can donate to our Ko-Fi page at ko-fi.com slash enoughofthefalafel. You don't have to donate a lot. We accept as little as one pound a month.
00:53:38
Speaker
Mark, what are some other ways that you can support the show? ah You can rate us on your podcast player and you can tell people about the show or share it on your social media or both. And lots of you have been doing that. We know we can see how many of you've been listening and the numbers are always increasing. So hooray for large communities of people interested in animal rights. That's good, isn't it? Thank you everyone for listening to this show and all the other ones. We're back again on Thursday or any time after the 2nd of July, because that's how podcasts work, isn't it?
00:54:12
Speaker
They're there forever. It's David, Dominic and Kate on that episode. It's a vegan talk episode. They're discussing when is it okay to kill a bug? Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks to Ant and Shane for your contributions. Thanks again, everyone, for listening. I've been Mark and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:54:41
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster.
00:54:51
Speaker
We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com. And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:55:22
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:55:43
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:55:57
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.