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The Royal Tailor- You Can't Sew That Fast
23 Plays10 days ago
This Korean historical drama pits the establishment and tradition against new artistic expression in clothing of the royal court. Being glamorous can elevate your social standing, it can also get you killed. But the real burning question of this movie is- how long does it take to make one of these outfits??? The human body can only move so fast.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4024104/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_6_nm_2_in_0_q_royal%2520tailor
https://asiasociety.org/
https://thetalkingcupboard.com/
https://koreatourinformation.com/
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Hot Set Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
Season Announcement
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode. We are nearing the end of season three of our podcast. so today's the penultimate episode for the
Focus on 'The Royal' Film
00:00:33
Speaker
season. And we decided to go with another international film, which we've been trying to ah incorporate throughout this season, get some designs from some folks that we weren't necessarily super familiar with beforehand. So today really fits into that theme.
00:00:52
Speaker
And we watched the 2014 Korean film, The Royal the story fictionalized which is the story ah fictionalized I should a story of a rivalry between these two very influential tailors in the sort of Royal court environment in Korea.
00:01:16
Speaker
So we have doll. So who is the titular royal tailor, tailor to the king, queen, and royal folks in the court.
00:01:29
Speaker
yeah But then we've got this young upstart Lee Kong-jin, who is this sort of savant, maverick,
00:01:40
Speaker
guy who kind of comes out of nowhere but he's such a like a genius and everybody's so obsessed with his clothes they can't get enough so it becomes a rivalry between the establishment and the like young artist and then we kind of get some some like interpersonal intrigue going on with the queen and the young tailor there's kind of some stuff going on there between them too um And it all ah culminates in a tragedy and everyone's pretty sad at the end.
00:02:14
Speaker
So ah that's kind of where we are. And yeah, so I'd never seen this movie before. um I believe, Ariel, you had not seen it either. So no um yeah, let's so ah initial
Initial Impressions of 'The Royal'
00:02:30
Speaker
takeaway. i liked the movie. I thought it was um interesting. Yeah.
00:02:36
Speaker
i I did enjoy all the glamour shots of people sewing. ah That was fantastic to see. and right with you. I was enjoying all of the the well-lit shots of like the loving shots of all the cones of thread like in their color palettes together displayed on really deep shelves. And I was like, oh for what I would do for that storage.
00:02:58
Speaker
Oh, my God. just And like, you know, that whole workroom that was like these like beautiful like workstations where like everything was pristine and clean and there was like no extraneous tools or fabric or like thread. Like everything was just so like meditative and like perfect and lovely. And I i don't know what that's like.
00:03:21
Speaker
I've never experienced that. I don't know what that's like. And I also feel like... I would be potentially terrified to work in a space like that because it takes a lot to unify you and being that precise and that perfect.
00:03:36
Speaker
And i think it all kind of begins with child labor, at least according to the story. does seem true. Or orphans or young people being sold. like into Into work, because um one of our characters has definitely been doing it since he was teeny tiny, and he had perfect-sized hands for sewing things.
00:03:55
Speaker
That was Kogen, played by Gosu. I liked this movie ah lot. um I really liked...
00:04:07
Speaker
with the ways that it looked at clothing, clothing importance, um kind of like the position of people who make clothing in society, even when they're in a place like a royal palace, um how exhausting the labor is, even when you're like given titles.
00:04:31
Speaker
And how quickly it can turn into being something that can kill you because clothing is political and has always been political.
Cultural Research and Significance
00:04:43
Speaker
And also fricking loved all the color that we saw because like, yeah I did do a teeny tiny bat of research for this, this movie. Yeah.
00:04:57
Speaker
while watching it. And um I've been watching a lot of Korean cinema and um TV over the past two years. And ah so it's like, I've been picking up little tiny bits of history, like in between the dramatized, you know, elements.
00:05:17
Speaker
yeah So at the beginning of this movie, we are in a new King's reign. And so The king has just died and everyone is in mourning. So all of these people are wearing white.
00:05:28
Speaker
Beautiful white. Yeah. Beautiful white, like at white hanbok. And so it's the the switching over. But until the new king has decided that he's ready to like finish the period of mourning and to have a new dragon robe made by his tailor, everyone is in mourning. So that's where we kick off is...
00:05:49
Speaker
He's asking his tailor to make him a new robe. And this tailor, the royal tailor, is very traditional. That's how he survived in his career. And that's just like how he maintains is that he just stays with the tradition and does not stray and just has quality traditional garments.
00:06:08
Speaker
And that is what makes him so different from our other tailor. Yeah. Ends up making a hunting robe for for the king. um so Well, he starts by...
00:06:19
Speaker
secretly remaking the other robe after it gets like burned but I i loved the um inclusion of actually seeing the like paper sewing patterns that the royal tailor used and they're like super like worn and like crinkled up and just like have just been obviously used like over and over and over again and he talks about how they've used the exact same clothing patterns for the last three kings. So it's like, yeah, it's like, it's, it's not even, it's like beyond tradition. It's like more than that. It's like, it is everything. So fascinating because like, we've talked about this before you and I just have such a strong background in Western fashion. That's just like what we're taught by default
00:07:12
Speaker
yeah And any other kind of culture is pretty much like an extra class if it's offered anywhere. And usually it's just not like a history is just not offered. yeah So there's more than half of the world that we just get kind pretend bits and pieces.
00:07:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's like, we just get like a ah phrase or a paragraph or a throwaway comment. And so it's, you know if Unless you're going into a master's or a PhD and like you're honing like ah a topic as you go, or you have a cultural connection, or you're like a traveler and you have like the ability to go travel somewhere, you're kind of limited to like where can you research? What can you research? And because I'm not a scholar, I'm very much a laying down on the sofa scholar, if you will, not even an armchair.
00:08:00
Speaker
um trying it's just dead arms crossed on the chest so so the research that i am doing is very very minimal like this is not research that i would even offer if i were to do a term paper you know what i'm saying but like yeah absolutely the things that i have slowly been accumulate the little bits of knowledge that i've been slowly been accumulating is that And I might be wrong and I would love to hear if
Traditional vs. Innovative Tailoring
00:08:30
Speaker
I'm wrong.
00:08:30
Speaker
So there was okay. In a lot of K-dramas and Korean cinema, we see the Joseon era as very colorful with all the hanbok, the traditional clothing.
00:08:45
Speaker
yeah But apparently- the Korean people were known. And I don't know if this is like a specific area or if this was a wider area, because that's, that's what we're talking about with this level of research.
00:08:58
Speaker
They were called like the white clothed people. Right. So it was like a cultural thing that they wore white clothing. And it was like such in general, and it was like prevalent enough that the Japanese, when they invaded and were interfering with Korea,
00:09:17
Speaker
um politically speaking, ah they tried to make that illegal again and again and again and again. so like what I have associated as solely mourning clothing, which is not true. Right. Right.
00:09:33
Speaker
it was more present than just for mourning. And so that's like really interesting, but I don't know how far that goes, you know, but like, right. Yeah. It's why you slow so yeah like a political thing that has been fought for as a part of i identity like cultural identity.
00:09:54
Speaker
And that was like, whoa, yeah. We're starting right off with that. like it becomes hard to tell in the movie because there is so much color. And even the like sort of noble fellas that we see like in and around the court.
00:10:10
Speaker
have like a Noble fellas. Noble fellas. Their clothing is like a little bit more like simple in terms of... like It would be like a rope like a predominantly like one color as opposed to like mixing colors. But even that was like, you know, navy blue or like deep green or like I think there was maybe like someone in like a burgundy with like some embroidery on the chest. But even that, like that's like a deep color.
00:10:37
Speaker
So it's hard to know. Without that much cultural information, what is artistic license ah specific to like the design of this movie? Or like what is like history? like it's it It's hard to tell.
00:10:56
Speaker
And as an ignoramus... whose history is from a different part of the world. what i An assumption that I would throw out there that I'm totally okay with being like, that's not true.
00:11:08
Speaker
But an assumption I would throw out there is that like throughout history, the wealthier you were or the closer you were to the palace, to a traditional environment like that,
00:11:19
Speaker
the more color you had in your clothing because color was so significant of your position and your status. yeah And so like dyes cost money. So it's like whatever colors you have access to that color, like, you know, in so many different places in the world, like purples and reds and blues are royal colors because they were, you know, the specific shades were difficult to produce.
00:11:46
Speaker
And they were expensive. And so it's like, that's also kind of an easy way. Like when you think of like maids and like house staff in the West throughout history, you might come to mind, might be like black people.
00:12:04
Speaker
Right. Like what originally um gave gave life to the French maid stereotype, which is not the short frilly number. It's just black with like maybe a white shirt and white cuffs.
00:12:17
Speaker
Right. Right. So it's just black so that you kind of disappear. And so that people don't look at you. But then you think of like French kings. Yeah. yeah like Once upon a time, black dye was hard to make too. so Absolutely. In like the 1600s, that was a status symbol to have black.
00:12:35
Speaker
Because it was expensive. Sometimes black is like a political or religious statement. of what I'm not going to be fearless with color. yeah and then it's like You think of like French kings and you think, okay, the livery of the people who worked for those kings is going to be more ornate than it's going to be for a country...
00:12:54
Speaker
farmer, right right? There's going to be more natural fibers without necessarily crazy dyes. like Things will still be dyed because that's also how you give clothing new life. but like it's not going to be that saturated thing with like gold trim and like ivory buttons and pearl, you know? And so right the same thing I think translates throughout the world. Like the wealthier you are you're going to have more option and more potentially saturation and color fastness because you're getting higher quality dyes and higher quality work.
00:13:27
Speaker
So yeah, I would not be surprised that color has been present throughout history, but that maybe be like the less access you have to the money and the power, but maybe the less of the color you have in your everyday clothing.
00:13:42
Speaker
And so... This movie is just so fun because um there's a little piece of trivia on IMDb where it says that the costume designer, Seng-yung, who we did not find very much information about.
00:13:57
Speaker
don't know But that's also because like, I don't know the websites for other countries. This is this is what's happening in the US and it's been happening very slowly. But very distinctly since the 90s is that we have less and less and less access to return information from other countries unless we know exactly how to look for it. And so like things like this, if i if I'm like Googling this or looking on any search engine, I'm not necessarily going to get the information I'm looking for kicked back to me because it wants to give me...
00:14:26
Speaker
what's domestic and it's really stupid. Yeah, like there probably is more information if we could like read Korean. There might be websites totally that are talking about her that are in Korean that like Google's like, well, you don't read, like you don't know that. So we're not even going to We're not showing it to you because you can't read it.
00:14:45
Speaker
And I'm sure there are also blogs of like people who just watch Korean dramas and and also who are Korean and like costume, just like talking about it, but I don't know where to find them. So the trivia on IMDb it is at this moment. So Jo Sang-yeon said that she was inspired by the clothing that existed during King Yong-jo's reign, which would have been 1694 1776. Yeah.
00:15:09
Speaker
And according to historical records, that was when a short jogori, the jacket that sits on top of the dress and the jar shaped skirts started to become fashionable, which i love that that element is in here.
00:15:23
Speaker
the, the, the juxtaposition of the traditional tailoring yeah and the turning into new styles in a period so contained and constrained as the Joseon. Because like everywhere you look, when you when you don't have Korean heritage or you don't have um connection to a culture that is so tightly...
00:15:48
Speaker
um where the social mores are so tight. you know that? Does that make sense? Yeah. Or like, yeah, they're um the social areas specific, but like pet like people follow them. Like they're they're more um clear and prescribed. Like I feel like growing up in like America, you know, like the the melting pot bullshit, whatever. But like as someone who hat doesn't have like, I don't have like a clear like ah
00:16:19
Speaker
like ancestry to like one place. So I don't have like traditions that go back to that place. But like people that do that like that do have like still connection to like and ah culture and like can follow these like clear traditions that like are still done and understood. Yeah.
00:16:40
Speaker
who And so like learning about Korean tradition, especially during this period, it's so influenced by Confucianism. don't know that much about Confucius, if I'm being really real.
00:16:53
Speaker
The last time that I knew anything about... certain religions was like in high school, I think yeah with talking through it. And so any other stuff I would have just kind of come across in conversation with other people who are exploring things. And so like, I just don't necessarily have these things committed. And I also don't have like the ideals um of confucianism like lock or Confucian like things locked in my mind. But no the this dynasty, the Joseon dynasty, which was from 1392 to 1897,
00:17:28
Speaker
it was very Confucian. And so that like filial piety, things like that dictated how you wear your hair. And like, okay, there was, there are a couple of great websites that I'm going to give you links to so that maybe we can share them in the show notes or something.
00:17:46
Speaker
um And I think that like, okay, one of the, I put them aside in their own tab. Um, I want to give them shout out. One is Asia society.org, which is like for the purpose of, of sharing more about Asian culture between like Asian countries and the U S so it's specifically like aimed at kind of like U S folk, um, honorary reporters.
Resources on Korean Culture and Fashion
00:18:06
Speaker
Um, there's a blog called the talking cupboard.com. And then I looked at, koreatourinformation.com. So those websites I looked at for information about hats and hairstyles and cool hair ornaments.
00:18:23
Speaker
Oh and my God, the hats in this movie. Okay. First of all, the hats... So this, this era is one in which the hats are everywhere. Headpieces are everywhere. Wigs are everywhere. Hairpins, um specific beads, specific buttons on the sides of hairpins. And everything has a name and a purpose and a message.
00:18:49
Speaker
And like, when I think of Western um clothing, you know Clothing items have a name and they have a purpose, but it's different because of the Confucian element. There's a code in there that is a different code. like When I think of Western clothing, I'm i'm getting the codes of wealth, status, class, purity, whatever, right right power.
00:19:16
Speaker
um but here the coding is even more intricate because like, let's talk about hair for a second. And like, I'm not a big like hair scholar. I'm not a hair designer, even though nor i interested it's not my wheelhouse, but like a Western culture, there are different hairstyles that have been accessible during different stages of your life. They communicate if you're unmarried or married or whatever, right? Like there are different, yeah.
00:19:48
Speaker
like, i don't know, the accessories that what they denote is your wealth because of how expensive they are, but somebody will have access to that. That's the same in the Joe's identity, but there's even more in intricacy within the codes.
00:20:03
Speaker
And it's just, it's like this rabbit hole of this wealth of knowledge. And every time I watch any, um international film that i don't know about the culture, i get really upset because our education system did not expose us to any of this.
00:20:28
Speaker
And like when we were studying clothing, when we were studying art history, we were not exposed to these things. Like I could tell you stuff about ancient Greece, but I can't tell you about.
00:20:44
Speaker
Yeah. Like what's happening in Korea right now. Yeah. Like it is, i just, I, I, if we have anybody who's listening from, you know, outside of this country,
00:20:57
Speaker
I know that you can see it from outside the, the, the xenophobia that's in this country, the, the ignorance that's in this country, all those things. But I just wish for you to understand how deeply baked it is because like, yes, we it's not like we're all individually choosing to be like, we don't care. Yeah.
00:21:16
Speaker
No, it's it's opportunities that were taken from us when we were young. And then because we didn't know that they were there, we were being presented with so many other things. And then you're like racing towards all these goals. And so you don't quite understand until you stop that race and you stop and you look around and you go, wait a second, the arena is way bigger than I thought it was.
00:21:39
Speaker
And so being able to look at things differently, like this, this movie through the lens of clothing and what language is like, what the stories are being told through the clothing.
00:21:51
Speaker
This is such a great movie for that because it's just like the fact that somebody could be put to death, Because of the jealousy ah one Taylor seeing that a new era is coming that he can't understand.
00:22:08
Speaker
And therefore i can't control. that he can't control. that it won't, because he can't control it, it's not going to give him what he's looking for, which is a jump to a different class.
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah. yeah It's... it And that is like such a universal like human story. like Absolutely. So in in that way, it's great because it's so like, you know, like we said, like all these glamour shots of like all the like clothing and stuff, but like the actual like interpersonal relationships and like plot between people is so universal that like,
00:22:48
Speaker
you know We can all recognize it. We've all seen it a million times like you know in story, in real life. ah And so it does kind of like like, you're not left being like, I don't understand what's happening here. You're like, i know where that guy's coming from. i know where that guy's coming from. i know where that lady's coming from. i get that part. Yeah.
00:23:09
Speaker
we've seen these dynamics play out in different theater companies literally you know what i'm saying like we've seen these dynamics play out yes macro like all them i've been like i've been put in the like gong jean like role by people where i'm like i wish i was a genius but i'm not but you're still treating me like a threat here and i'm actually just trying to do my job
00:23:38
Speaker
Like, if only a was you that if only it was that serious. And it's really not. Like, it's literally not. Like, the stakes are so low. I am grateful that it's not that deep.
00:23:51
Speaker
It's not so deep that I'm going to be accused of trying to assassinate an artistic director and be, like, put to death because of my design straying from a traditional Shakespeare, you know? Like...
00:24:05
Speaker
you want say what if ophelia wasn't in white and they're like to death with you and you're like oh fuck but and thought we were cool that was something that i was like it was such an amazing moment to completely s spoil the end for people that um when when like Dahl so like reflected on his relationship with this like young Taylor. like Knowing that this man is about to be put to death and he's like thinking back to all their personal react interactions and how this guy was like just constantly being like, wow, you're the best. like I defer to your knowledge. like I just want to be like you. i just want to...
00:24:55
Speaker
you know learn from you. Can you finish my my garment that I made because the only person who could make this better is you. like Yes. I don't want to anybody else what to do the best.
00:25:08
Speaker
God. For him to at least... obviously it doesn't change the outcome, but at least have that moment of being like, Oh my God. Like I was so focused on hating this person and everything that they stood for that. I couldn't see that they just wanted to be, they were on the same side as me and I couldn't be on the same side as them.
00:25:31
Speaker
and it was just like, god infuriating and so painful. And like, I, just like watching the process of Dulsok, like be so jealous and like want to steal, like essentially like want to eat the inspiration Jin and like just being so, so furious every time something beautiful was made and like,
00:26:03
Speaker
I don't know, just like watching that human interaction and like, we all know we can be good at something, but there will always be someone better and there will always be someone worse.
00:26:14
Speaker
And like, At the end of the movie, what what eventually is the turning point for Kong Jin's downfall and what like pushes Doh Sok over the edge is this like coronation gown, really, for um the queen, played by Park Shin Hye, which, by the way, I would love to say, shout out to the show on, I think you might able to watch it on Netflix, called Dr. Slump.
00:26:46
Speaker
I love that show so much. Like she's amazing in it. And um she gets as the queen in this, in this movie, um she's basically been like, just like shunted aside by the King the whole time. And she just like keeps, cause she was originally supposed to marry his brother and this King like cannot let go of this rivalry that he had with his brother, who was the heir.
00:27:09
Speaker
Yeah. so Who is dead. He's he's dead It's you, you did it. You won, bro. like You didn't like choke to death or get shot. you know So like you're doing it. Yeah. Take the w So the queen, because she's like dealing with all this with such dignity and such grace, Kongjin kind of falls in love with her like the very first time that he sees her.
00:27:34
Speaker
And she kind of becomes like his muse in a way. Because it's like he kind of wants to... to make her happy with some of his, his designs. And he does, he makes like, he's altering the fashions a little bit. And so like making these new fashionable things and she's like, Ooh, cause she feels like beautiful and all that. And so he makes her this like moonlight coronation gown, oh my god silver and white and just pearls and pearls.
00:28:05
Speaker
Melinda, what would you, what would you say? your sewing rate is how many how many items do you think you can pump out i don't know how long this movie is to put like the timeline of this movie but well okay yeah let's let's start with the fact that because this is taking place in like the 16 1700s everything is being sewn by hand sewing machines don't exist so like just to put that yeah like Just in case anyone, you know, didn't have that information, that is absolutely part of it. are sitting cross-legged and we are sewing on the ground or on a low table or standing, but we are sewing by hands.
00:28:52
Speaker
I will say, like, some things could be helped by the fact that, like, at least like some of the robes and things are very large geometric based pieces, but i'm going to say many weeks to produce something like that coronation gown because of the amount of embroidery, embellishment, hand sewn pearls onto the fabric, like many, many weeks. Okay. Like it's,
00:29:27
Speaker
crazy Eddie I'm pretty sure in the timeline of the movie he makes it in like four hours okay listen
00:29:37
Speaker
when Dulsuk kind of like decides that he's gonna go down this route of like betraying Kongjin and trying to get him out of the palace and to like ruin him and he's like hey friend king um this is stupid and the king goes you're right it's stupid and He goes around and he collects every item of clothing that Kung Jin has made for all of the ladies in the palace, for all of the government officials in the palace.
00:30:07
Speaker
And they basically say it's illegal to wear any of this. And it's like you're watching Kung Jin die a little bit because all of his art is being burned in front of him. Do Sok is like...
00:30:20
Speaker
Sucks to suck. But meanwhile, here I am. Like, excuse me, sirs. What the fuck? Because it's this huge pile. So as much. This entire of clothing. And I don't know about you, but all of this fabric is very, very lightweight.
00:30:39
Speaker
Except for like all of the women's wear very lightweight fabric in this pile light silk. yeah And so it's like light silk that you can see through. And I don't know about all you sewists out there, but when you sew something lightweight, sometimes that shit can be fussy because it's trying to run away from you because it's lightweight.
00:31:02
Speaker
And also it can fray. So like when you are sewing it and you are seaming it, you're doing... like not just sewing it and calling it like it's done now pressed to the side right you are having to like encasing the edge the raw edge inside the seam so it's basically sewing twice on the seam yeah like a french seam yeah like a f french seam fell yeah a flat fell and so it's just like you know you've got that's double so every seam you're sewing you're sewing twice and so that that takes a minute
00:31:40
Speaker
so And then you're doing like imagine an embroidery piece that's the size of like a dinner plate. Okay, listen up. So I have, okay, I have seen o it's scene video of embroiderers embroidering top to bottom, which means that you have a needle coming from the top to a hand that's on the bottom. So you are not both hands on top of your piece.
00:32:07
Speaker
You're working on a frame and you're passing yourself the needle from up from above and below. And I've seen people sew that way, embroider that way. And it is like hilariously fast and not hilarious, like ha ha ha, but hilarious. Like I'm losing my mind like a 12th century monk kind of style, you know, like, but yeah, cause it's just like, I try to embroider that way. it again it's hard. but Um, it's hard. And it's, I, yeah, I, I was, I did a big embroidery project a couple years ago and I was starting to get like a lot of like wrist pain from the repetitive motion. And so I, I started,
00:32:46
Speaker
doing it that way very slowly, very, very slowly. well it's relearning like how to walk because like there's, you can sew where you're holding, like let's say you're holding your, your embroidery in, in your non-dominant hand and then you're going,
00:33:04
Speaker
through the fabric, the way that we're seeing doll sock embroider in this movie, where you're not minding how much thread is left on the backside. Right. So you're, you're crossing behind, you know, and then coming out the top, crossing behind, coming out the top.
00:33:22
Speaker
Whereas when you go above and below, that means you have less thread waste. And so, He's embroidering the way that I embroider because it's like so much more intuitive.
00:33:34
Speaker
And then like the other way is a technical skill that you have to flip and develop and then you can become a speed wizard. It's insane. But like I actually felt a little bit relief when i was like, okay, I see you, Jilsok.
00:33:47
Speaker
You're like, okay, well, he's the best and he's doing it the way that I do it. So the way that I'm doing it is the best. It's the best because apparently he's embroidering these fucking silver and gold emblems in an evening.
00:34:00
Speaker
Sure thing, boss. ah Oh, my God. In make-believe time. Okay. There's just like a lot of fantasy happening with time. thread also, which is like very fine. Very, very fine thread. So you got to do a lot more stitches.
00:34:15
Speaker
So I was like, there's there's some magic happening here, which I'm like, I would love for all of this to be true. And I'm sure that for some people who are that technically skilled, where they've been doing this same thing for like 30 or 40 years, that they can do it pretty fast, but you can't necessarily do it that fast.
00:34:32
Speaker
Yeah. There's only so fast that the human body can move. And I mean, yes, obviously he did. He was a child ah labor victim who has been embroidering since he was like seven years old. But um ah there's only so fast that the human body can go. And so it's like, even when you're going fast, you can't, I don't, I don't know that we're doing that the night.
00:34:56
Speaker
I don't think we're doing that the night. Maybe, maybe, no. No. This is where the fantasy and the historical fantasy comes into play in this movie. like There's no magic. There's no otherworldly things. But the the rate at which they are sewing is the fantasy part.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, because Kong Jin is somehow – both he and Dilsak are magically these Grimm's brothers, like fairytale tailors something. It's just like, oh, from the time the sun went down and the sun came up in the morning, they had a whole new set of everything for everyone. It's like, oh my god, I wish.
00:35:33
Speaker
Especially at the like part of the movie where Gong Jin is making all of these clothes for all the ladies. It's like they're coming in these sort of like clandestine things like at night to his window and being like...
00:35:50
Speaker
oh, hello, I would like this and here's what I can pay you with. And it's like, the implication is that he's making like multiple people's outfits each night. two And that is simply preposterous, I think is the word Even with a machine you know you and an iron and an electrical iron that you don't have to pull out of a fire and like let it cool down enough so it doesn't bring your fabric and then like, you know, cover your fabric. with it Even with all those tools that we have now,
00:36:22
Speaker
ah you gotta cut gotta the fabric out do people not like he's like he's also designing so you're like conceptualizing and like putting colors together okay let's talk about that Let's talk about his designs. So we have talked about before costume renderings and how different designers are more technical or more like loosey goosey artistic. And, you know, everybody has their own preference.
00:36:49
Speaker
And like i I came up through the school of illustration. So I... prefer when I am designing to have something that is a little bit more technically, we can look at this.
00:37:01
Speaker
And like, if I'm passing this to a a shop manager, or supervisor, I can be like, okay, do you have any questions? And they can go, is that a real seam? And I can go, can it be? because I know how to sew. So I know where a seam can go and where it can't and be like, it's not like a functional seam, but can we make something that looks like it, you know?
00:37:22
Speaker
Whereas there are a lot of costume designers and designers who do not know how to sew. They are not technical designers. um laborers, they are coming at it from a completely different point of view. And some people will teach themselves how to sew or gain that skill over their career. But in the costume design,
00:37:43
Speaker
ah degree, like you, you have introductory sewing basically. yeah I think I'm a little more loosey goosey with my renderings. Mine are, cause I'm not very good at drawing. So mine are a little more, know, conceptual.
00:37:59
Speaker
Technical flats, but it's like, we have both seen, and I can't name ah one right now, but we have seen like famous costume designers for Broadway, for film, who there's okay there's a rendering that i'm specifically thinking of in my head and maybe you know who this is we don't have to shame shout out the name but we're gonna we're naming and shaming but like specifically because i know that we've talked about this before in a different episode it's like this person took like ink and just spilled it and maybe took a paintbrush and went and then went okay that's it
00:38:33
Speaker
And there's like maybe a head. Yes. And like maybe a like Indication of limbs. Yeah. And then that's it. Yeah. And it's like very scribbled. So essentially what that does is that you are telling the costume supervisor or who the shop manager, whoever it is, who is communicating with you, who will then...
00:38:51
Speaker
divvy up this job into the different um disciplines within the shop. This person is the person who is actually, in my opinion, designing this because they They they're making all the decisions.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah, they're making all of the decisions. They're just meeting a vibe that you created. So in that sense, you are a vibe creator. i want it to look like this. And then it's like, okay- and so What a job, what a career to have to be a vibe creator.
00:39:18
Speaker
Like that sounds ideal to me. You cracked a code. As long as you're not a dick bag, you cracked a code. Unfortunately, sometimes things do walk in hand in hand, but not always.
00:39:31
Speaker
Not always. But like it's that's what these designs are. Yeah, absolutely. And they're literally like ink and they're, but it's also, it was so ah cool to see fashion renderings like in a movie like this, because I'm like, I don't know how much that existed.
00:39:55
Speaker
Obviously we wouldn't know because, uh they all get burned but and i keep raising i keep hitting the wrong button okay okay okay
Fast Fashion vs. Couture
00:40:04
Speaker
i was like oh my apologies ariel has something to say that's the message that popped up on my screen i'm like raising him no i was like i'm pretty sure we're on the show together because you we have something to say finger move faster and and that's why you can't make a dress in three hours because we can only make our fingers move so fast
00:40:27
Speaker
Really quick on that. Unfortunately, now with like, you know, the horrible conditions of like, people who are making fast fashion, people can make items super, super insanely fast. And part of that is because they are solely responsible for like, I am the person who sews the sleeve.
00:40:45
Speaker
yeah I sew sleeves. I sew 300 sleeves a day with like crazy fast industrial machines. But those are industrial machines that changes that too. And so there is yeah it is possible to sew superhumanly fast, but that's because it's superhuman. It's not just based on human energy.
00:41:03
Speaker
And it just like... Well, and also like we're, you know, to get that we are sacrificing complexity, we are sacrificing individual fit, we are sacrificing quality materials. So like, um you know, obviously, i know, you know that, but like, that is all part of the equation to get clothing that is produced that quickly is it's going to be simplified down to a handful of sizes It's going to have been maximized for efficiency of fabric use, like in by sacrificing design elements that are complicated, like it's it's.
00:41:47
Speaker
The difference between trying on like a $10 shirt from like Shein and like a $300 shirt like made by like an artist. Yeah, that's the difference between fast fashion and couture. Everybody throws around the term couture. It's just French for made deliberately and like made deliberately with time and with high quality.
00:42:12
Speaker
Yeah. materials yeah and potentially paying their workers like $10 better than another manufacturer may.
00:42:24
Speaker
Cause like, I mean, who was it? It was one of those big fashion labels. was it like Prada or one of those guys like a couple of years ago in the past five years since COVID where um they're one of those things where they have very specific skills and they're never spoken of. And like, they're doing so much of the design work. They're doing so much stuff because when you have fashion labels like that, like Chanel, like all these things where it's a name, that designer is long gone. Yeah.
00:42:53
Speaker
So who's designing it? You have a head of house, sure. but underneath that, you have the people who are actually, like we said, making decisions and doing other things. And so it's like differing in different houses, whatever, whatever. But there's so much unnamed labor that you don't actually know the conditions that those laborers are working in, even if they are making couture items or high quality items.
00:43:15
Speaker
And I really loved that i little element of that in this movie at the end where like we, the movies like bookended on either side by like a display of a historical garment. And so the beginning, like we don't get a lot of information because we go right back into history. We watch the entire film. We see everything that plays out we like understand this entire drama between these people then we come back to this display and it is that coronation gown and the garment is attributed dol so because he was the royal tailor and it's hundreds of years ago and so people are like
00:44:05
Speaker
He's the royal tailor. His job was to make all the clothes for the king and the queen. Therefore, he must have made this garment. We can attribute it directly to him. And obviously, we've spent the entire movie understanding that that is not the case, that he did not make that garment.
00:44:20
Speaker
That he couldn't even make something like that when he did try. Yeah. Because the person who did make it, when... when he was confronted with this fake item that he didn't make was like, I would never have chosen those things. And even then it's like, you can't do what I do because you don't, you just don't think like I do. It's not the art that you You don't have the vibes.
00:44:45
Speaker
Like the vision. What is, what does Tim Gunn say? The, the taste level is just not there.
00:44:57
Speaker
so i who might as well just go like walk into a lake like jesus my goodness um so you thank you for bringing it back there because i wanted to get back to that oh i had a feeling yeah the fact that this movie is bookended by modern um display of this ancient garment and um Yeah, the unnamed labor, all the things that we don't know about all of these people. And there are people who are trying to find out that information. There are like,
00:45:29
Speaker
Instagram accounts, like all these different things where there are like people trying to research who made this, who was it? And like, what was the real story? Because it didn't just come to life, like out of nowhere, it came from someone and some, some few people who made this garment.
00:45:47
Speaker
And so I did want to say, how did you feel about the first scene being like the opening of the Phantom the Opera?
00:45:54
Speaker
but the chandelier being like the drop cloth like being raised I saw that and I was like right away every and throughout the course of the movie I kind of forgot and then like about two thirds of the way through the movie I was like oh yeah we're gonna go back to that museum at the end and it's gonna I can tell it's gonna be a thing so I was like excited but I forgot for most of the movie, which I think is what they wanted me to do.
00:46:25
Speaker
Absolutely. Because like you, you see this whole person who who made, okay, we have to talk about some of the the clothing that he made. So there's this whole number where number is, if it's like a song and dance tap number, but there's this whole beat where the queen is like becoming more and more comfortable with him because he's basically becoming her tailor. He's helping to elevate her,
00:46:50
Speaker
status within the court because like pretty much any court throughout history or all over the world people are just backstabbing each other and trying to oust each other and defenestrate each other. Any opportunity use that word, but like, yeah, defenestrate, but just like doing all these things.
00:47:09
Speaker
And he's like, he has no political motivation. He just wants to make her happy. That's it. So he just, she mentions that, um, I think that he might've asked like,
00:47:20
Speaker
something about a flower and she mentions that her father promised to plant violets on her mother's grave because they were her mother's favorite flower but she never got to go and I'm assuming because once she was like you know became the the queen like or the queen-in-waiting that she could no longer leave the royal palace right right and so he's like well how about we do it and in this like very quick section of this movie we have like basically disguises in a jailbreak to go to her and like he makes these outfits for her and for her like ladies made um and like just like paints the ladies made face
00:48:08
Speaker
To make her look like gisang, I think is is the word. um And like ah they have different wigs than they would normally have because like as the queen, she has this like very large headpiece. Yeah, big braided. Big braided, but it also has like very different um decoration, which is very much come down in this disguise.
00:48:32
Speaker
And also real quick interjection. There's another podcast out there called Chasing K-Dramas. or chasing K drama, I think. And, um, one of the hosts, I'll say Sloan, uh, pointed out recently that in a lot of K dramas, you'll see that, um, wig matching is very different because like everybody has, unless their hair is dyed, everybody has like the same tone of hair, but the wigs that they're using are like four or five shades off.
00:48:59
Speaker
And you can totally see that in this one. And so, yeah she's like what is that it's like you don't know the difference between like this number and this number bird and you're just like that's brown but it's like with the light it's not the same brown and that is true of the queen where it's like every time she's wearing this like circular halo hair piece it's like maybe four shades darker than her hair and it's just like so funny every time
00:49:30
Speaker
And I love that it's kind of this like autonomous hair like halo that you could just like set kind of on. yeah um It's really used to great effect ah later with the like mistress character when she... like Yeah, but that's a whole different... And she tosses it.
00:49:48
Speaker
And I do want to say that um one of those sites... i want to pull it up. TheTalkingCupboard.com really, really went through and has stills from different movies and TV tv shows from Korea of different hat styles and different hairstyles and different decoration and different clothing items. And it gives the name...
00:50:08
Speaker
and a description of those things. And it was just like, here's this hairstyle and here's this head, like hair piece that would be worn by this person during this period. And I was just like, whoever you are that assembled this.
00:50:22
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you. Bless you. It's like, if we could have that kind of resource, like everywhere. um my God. Could you, I know. God. It would be nice. Having context for why a thing was worn.
00:50:37
Speaker
ah and Oh my God. So I mean, that whole jailbreak section was like, this is such a silly goof little thing, like a silly goosey little story. like of this And they're like very funny, like ha ha moments that are happening.
00:50:52
Speaker
There was also um the King's ah hunting jacket being made with like the see-through fabric was just like beautiful. So beautiful. but like ah Really early in the film, the like kind of first to kind of demonstration of like the difference between these two tailors is like all of the noblemen get like issued basically like new clothing because they're like, okay, we're not a mourning anymore. like You can go back to wearing your normal clothes. And so they all get like issued new clothes.
00:51:23
Speaker
And our royal tailor, he only makes them in one size. and so not like they don't fit anybody. And one of the guys just kind of happens to run into Gongjin and he like cuts up the robe and like basically does like a custom alteration to the robe to make it fit him. And then we like, all the guys are like, Oh my God. and they're like all running over. it it's so cute. It's so cute. And it's also so like, this is how you're artistic. What are you sewing? Cause he's like whips out these big pair of his shears and
00:51:58
Speaker
And he like snips them. And then he cut the hem off of his like government rope and like split the fabric down the blades. And I was like, listen, we've all been there. We've all been there where we're like, we just need to make this happen. And then he cuts off that hem. And I was like, that hem is crazy.
00:52:23
Speaker
It was like chewed up. It was like tilted. Because like when you are... of course, there are many different types of tools for many different purposes, right? So you have tailor shears, which usually have very, very long blades.
00:52:37
Speaker
And part of the reason they have long blades is to avoid ah hem being chewed up like that or any cut because you make deliberate, smooth cuts and the blades go really far and eat a lot of fabric without... and and And so like, also, you know, you'll know fabric and you can like slide through fabric the same way that you slide through wrapping paper with like, when you get that sharp part of the shears and you just, it's kind of the same thing.
00:53:04
Speaker
But I was like, this is hilarious. Cause it feels like he's cutting off that hem. Cause this guy that needs to go on stage right now. That is what it felt like when hunt like we've all been there backstage, like something has gone wrong. And it also really had the flavor of this actor has been handed this prop to manipulate and hasn't necessarily been trained on how a professional would use that tool. And I'm saying that very kindly.
00:53:34
Speaker
Yeah. Or even just being like, cause cause like Melinda, I have, and I know that this is like a, cause this movie is not that old. And so like, know and here everywhere in the world, a lot of actors will like try to learn as much as they can about what their character is doing so that they can bring that.
00:53:51
Speaker
And it's like, I kind of ah in my head was really enjoying the idea of the actor who plays Gong Jin. Like actually researching a bunch of Taylor stuff and then them going, hey, I do want to remind you that you're the guy who's like upending everything. So we want you to be a little bit loosey-goosey and crazy. And then him going, like are you sure?
00:54:12
Speaker
then him going,
00:54:15
Speaker
to do and then be like okay right i think we got what that was what you wanted we're gonna move on to the next shot yeah it's just like that would be kind of great if it's like he came like research and like ready like okay well i i can picture me being yeah totally like new ideas and stuff but i'm very meticulous with and they're like no we want you to drive drive blind it's like I loved it.
00:54:41
Speaker
um Did you have any like fame or favorite ah garments or like anything that stood out? I don't know about – I mean, like, obviously, like, the the coronation gown is probably my favorite. um But I loved in the kind of, like, montage of him transforming, like, the women's fashion in the court. I just really was digging all of the different color combinations that were happening because there was so much, like – Just really beautiful use of taking like really bold colors and like really subtle colors and like mixing stuff together. And just like there would be like four or five different colors happening in like one
Fashion in 'The Royal'
00:55:27
Speaker
garment. But like the balance was so beautiful and it was just like lovely to look at
00:55:32
Speaker
So that was standout. It makes it all feel like... Like these clothing items are meant to look like flowers because it's just like, there's so many parts and like structures and then like see through fabrics, like translucent fabrics. I should, I guess, use a better.
00:55:51
Speaker
or whatever. Translucent fabrics. And then like solids and just like all these different balances everywhere. it i I think it must have been so fun to assemble these for the designer. And like the other part of that trivia of um where the costume designer what was inspired by like in in time for the costumes, um the first half is more than 1000 hanbok appear in the film with Park Shin Hye, who plays the queen, wearing 30 intricately embroidered pieces.
00:56:24
Speaker
1 billion won which might be around 909 thousand dollars was spent on costumes a significant portion of the film's 7.2 billion won total budget so like they really went with it they were like this is the story we're telling and we're not gonna pull back on it we're gonna really lean in and show what could be done to imagine like a film and all of the different things that cost money making a film like every department ah like all of the logistics like and to imagine like one out of every seven dollars went just to producing the costumes like that doesn't happen very much that's very rare and it's like even it would be interesting to see
00:57:16
Speaker
i don't know that it's going to be us that's going to generate this information but it would be very interesting to see um costume budget allocation breakdowns like um yeah her style of film and like style of property even like modern uh fantasy uh superhero in the u.s in china in korea in african film like just
00:57:47
Speaker
how these things are kind of like similar and different um depending on project or whatever. Like just seeing that kind of information would be kind of interesting because it's like – Totally.
00:57:58
Speaker
It gives you more information about what people are able to do. and make it look like they have a massive budget if they don't have a massive budget. don't know. It's just yet again, more information I would love, like just i know just to know. And it's one of those things, like it feels a little bit like the old rule of like, don't talk to other employees about how much you're getting paid, which I'm firmly against.
00:58:23
Speaker
Because who are you helping with that? You're helping the people who don't want to pay you equally or who want to pay you shit amounts. And so it's like, I'm, I'm always curious about that because working in the field, even if I was just the person who's washing the socks, well, how, what was the sock budget? and Like what was the sock budget?
00:58:44
Speaker
You know? And socks were important in this movie. The king was giving away his socks as like a royal favor. Yeah. Those were his little Valentine's that he would give away. Just, you know, just like all these, all these things.
00:58:56
Speaker
um I enjoyed this movie. I enjoyed the political and the, the artistic intertwining. Cause so much, it feels like when somebody is making a movie about, um,
00:59:10
Speaker
the production of clothing that it goes in either direction not both and i can be wrong about that that's fine but i'm gonna say it with my whole chest right now um so the costume designer really quick did design a movie called the handmaiden from 2016 which i i think some people know and also did a nine episodes of squid game in 2020 she did the first season of squid game which is very different if for people that have seen that show a lot more track suits in squid game than there are in this movie but a lot of color like there is very strong color yeah um don't know any last thoughts any last things you want hit
00:59:53
Speaker
You know, i was i was thinking when when watching the movie, I was thinking about other movies that we've covered that take place in like various sort of royal court situations and just the amount of similarities in terms of like...
01:00:11
Speaker
how important your clothing was and how, ah how it can like really kind of make or break your status in those places. Like I was thinking a lot about Marie Antoinette. I was thinking back to our episode about ever after, even going back to like tale of tales, which we just did like just how important,
01:00:37
Speaker
um clothing is to communicating your position, your status, and like how being glamorous can like change your life in a really real way in those places. so um It was nice to see that um in a culture that I don't don't know that much about, if I'm being honest. so It was really nice to kind of be able to understand the similarities to that, to stuff that i have more familiarity with and be like, ah, yes, people are people.
01:01:13
Speaker
Perfect way to say it. Because yes, it if it affects your life. Like it always does. People make snap decisions based on how you wear a certain shirt and somebody else might wear it differently.
01:01:24
Speaker
People in the U.S. can identify what generation you are, whether or not you use a French tuck, which is just crazy. Or going back to socks. What kind of socks you wear? what kind of socks you wear? Getting labeled by that. Or if you don't wear like socks that are visible because you're tucking them down. It's just nuts. So clothing is a language and it tells you a lot about who you are, about where you are, when you are. yeah.
01:01:52
Speaker
the people who are behind those clothes um i do want to shout out a ah korean patchwork style that was not present in this movie but every time i saw one of those um the layering of like translucent fabrics and the silks uh it's something called jogakbo j-o-g-a-k-b-o and it is really beautiful it's like leftover scraps of fabric sewn together and like seamed appropriately so it doesn't come across there's someone and I don't know her name uh but I feel like
Chogakbo and Modern Hanbok
01:02:24
Speaker
she's findable um on Instagram and probably TikTok who is making clothes out of uh Chogapo fabric and um which might be called Bojagi which is a domestic wrapping cloth but um
01:02:40
Speaker
It's like really lovely and based off of this like Korean traditional patchwork. And I just like artistically go look that up. ah Friends, go look at that textile technique.
01:02:53
Speaker
And then I also wanted to, if anybody wants to see Hanbok in like modern wear, there is someone on ah TikTok and Instagram named, um his account is Young Cheon Sheik.
01:03:08
Speaker
she um And he is a Korean adoptee who talks about his like cultural experience, but also makes and wears hanbok.
01:03:20
Speaker
Hanbok. And he is prolific as hell as well. So he is like a real life Gong Jin. Because every time I look at his account, he has like beautiful new outfits that are multiple layers, like from the inside and out. And he has like, he wears gats and he like wears his hair up. So he like...
01:03:42
Speaker
follows all these styles and I have been following his account for years and he's working in theater in New York, I think. And awesome so like there are little peaks into his like professional life and also his like personal exploration of being an adoptee, but also just like his incredibly beautiful clothing that he makes.
01:04:04
Speaker
And I'm going hold up a picture to the camera so that maybe you can see it. Oh, wow. This like an epic from this spring, this year. i mean, stunning work. Wow. Stunning. And so um I suggest anybody who wants to, please go eat that up with your eyes.
01:04:21
Speaker
um yeah So thanks for listening to another episode. Bye.
01:04:28
Speaker
Yeah, we're keeping it kind of short this week because both of us – we're having like work girl summer, I think, is what's going on. We're both working in some theater gigs and just like really all-consuming and also – walking that balance, which we chatted before the episode, we're not going to get deep into right now because we're all in it who are in the States, but, uh, shit is going down and it's really weird to be like balancing working in an environment where you're focusing on fantastical things that aren't real. And like ah going home and being like, yeah, it's real.
01:05:15
Speaker
It's real. Yeah. It's very strange to be in a really like joyous artistic environment all day. And then you like pick up your phone at the end and you're like, fuck.
01:05:28
Speaker
Yeah. It's not joyous and artistic elsewhere. what we're trying to, what I'm trying to focus on is that this is one of the things that we can do right now, which is being a part of your community and being with your community and supporting your community and, you know, reaching out of your community and touching others. But like, that's, that's what I'm focusing on at the moment. It's just like, I don't go crazy. Yeah. What is life?
01:05:57
Speaker
It's like, no, there's, there's, something to be had here and being there for other people and being with other people. So ah yeah, we're both gonna, I think, like go to a dark room and just kind of like lay there for little while after we have this Yeah.
Balancing Theater Work and Global Events
01:06:14
Speaker
And I think I'm gonna make a taco casserole. yeah. Yeah, i was like, that's a lie. I'm going to a grocery store because we have no food. hope Yeah. Yeah. um But thanks for coming along on this ride. i suggest this movie wholeheartedly. I think that it um is really lovely. And I would love to hear anybody else's takes on it.
01:06:32
Speaker
So let us know what you think. Yeah. And next week is the last episode of season three. Isn't that crazy? and to i um I can't wait because I have no idea what your feelings are going to be about this movie that I strong-armed for our finale this season.
Preview of Next Episode: Barbie Movie
01:06:58
Speaker
um i can't wait to hear what you think about the cinema, modern cinema classic Barbie. Barbie.
01:07:09
Speaker
barbye Okay, just as a preface without taking 35 minutes, because obviously that's next episode where we'll do where we will do this. I want to explain the reason that I dragged my feet and I'll be interested to see how I feel about it after watching it.
01:07:27
Speaker
But um yeah, we're putting you on the record right now. and I'm fine with it. I love that this movie united so many folks and had so much conversation happening, but something that I consistently noticed was,
01:07:47
Speaker
where intersectionality was and was not. And so I kind of didn't really feel called to see this movie because it felt like a very specific a version of feminism.
01:08:02
Speaker
And I am not like, no, I don't want to see it. I'm just like, where will I be wrong? And where will I be right? And, you know, interested and then also of course costumes seeing how you do because like anytime you're confronted with a character like barbie thing you are like okay hot pink we have a we have a specific tone of pink that goes with this character and like how much can we do this before we go absolutely insane and so that's a challenge that i'm very excited to see so yeah i'm i'm i'm very interested in it and and the conversation that will come out of it I, I think that I don't think that you're going to be wrong about much. um I do. I think, you know, this podcast is about. It's value maybe its about being right. It's about validating that I'm always right. 100%. No, I have nothing to learn in this life. I know it all. Blah, blah, blah. Those are facts.
01:09:02
Speaker
Facts. ah End of episode. Yeah. No, I don't think you're going to be wrong. i do. I think that so for for me watching the movie, because I have seen it a few times, including twice in the theater, which I don't do very often. um it is certainly feminism one a one In a way that a commercially produced movie that made $1 billion dollars can be. It has limitations on what it's going to do
01:09:36
Speaker
And so ah for me, I like to enjoy the movie for what it is. And and i'm I'm excited to see it in this lens because I think that when it was hot off the press, that's what made it frustrating was that people didn't want to have like a full conversation when I felt like it was inviting conversation and not just...
01:09:55
Speaker
To challenge it, the whole point of the movie was to bring this into, remember this? We got to talk about this. And people didn't want to talk about all of it. so And it's not the fault of the movie makers necessarily. And so it's just like, I think having had a little bit distance from when it first came out and the Oprah stamp of approval, if you will. Right. Because that's also the thing when people are like, you should read this book. Oprah said it's good. I'm like, well, Oprah doesn't know me. So I'm going to make my own choices.
01:10:26
Speaker
ah that's just one of those things, which maybe is called demand avoidance. I don't know. um This is a great way to see it, which is like without the pressure of anybody else's expectations, except for my friend Linda going like, let's talk about it.
01:10:42
Speaker
and You know, i don't have, you know, i don't need people. Like, I don't, ah I don't need you to to like the movie if if if you're the nicest way.
01:10:54
Speaker
We've already done that. Like, we've been there. We've already been through it. But, you know, like I i don't – look forward to your like honest opinion about it and I welcome hearing your honest opinion about it even if your honest opinion is ah that you don't like it. You know what I mean? Like I don't need you to pretend to like something and I know that you And love that about this podcast.
01:11:19
Speaker
And I love that you won't pretend to like it. Could you imagine? If don't. Could you imagine? It would be, the episodes would be very short, I think. It would be so boring because we wouldn't have a hook.
01:11:30
Speaker
We wouldn't have a fight club. You know what I mean? So absolutely I'm excited for this and I'm, ah yeah, it's going to be a nice episode and ah an interesting one. And then, yeah. We still have to decide what our next season is going to look like. Because, hey, guys, the world's absolutely batshit fucking crazy. But we still have this little life raft um for, you know, an hour and change.
01:11:54
Speaker
Whatever. So thanks for listening. Hope you listen to the next one. Yeah. So, um yeah. ah Bye, Barbie.
01:12:06
Speaker
Bye.