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Barbie- The Dream Ballet
0 Playsin 14 hours
Welcome to podcast-land, where everything is bright, colorful, molded plastic. We always have perfect outfits with matching accessories and the perfect hair style. If the choice is between a flat (gag) beige birkenstock sandal, and a pretty sparkly pink pump, it's a no-brainer.
Thanks for joining us for season 3- The color explosion. Hope to see you in season 4.
Bye Barbie! Bye Ken!
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1517268/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_1_tt_5_nm_2_in_0_q_barbie
https://www.vogue.com/article/barbie-costumes-jacqueline-durran
https://www.motionpictures.org/2023/12/barbie-costume-designer-jacqueline-durran-unpacks-that-eye-popping-wardrobe/
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
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Transcript
Introduction to Hot Set Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome to the final episode of season three of the podcast. We have been on a colorful journey this
Exploring Global Costume Designs
00:00:30
Speaker
season. and We've been looking at big swings, big design, big colors, big moments. We've been looking in other places besides just America for once and enjoying our jaunt around
Focus on 'Barbie' Movie
00:00:45
Speaker
the globe. And today we've decided to end in maybe the best place we could ever be, which is Barbie land
00:00:52
Speaker
I don't think there's, i think Barbie land is like Eden. i think it's like paradise. Um,
00:01:00
Speaker
um the the expression on Aerial Space when I said that was worth everything. Just freeze frame.
00:01:13
Speaker
Like, where are you going with that?
00:01:19
Speaker
But it's hard to imagine that anyone listening to this has not seen Barbie because it made $1.4 billion dollars when it was released in theaters But Just in case you haven't seen Barbie, it is a movie about Margot Robbie playing the titular character of Barbie, who is living in the feminist paradise of Barbie land.
00:01:44
Speaker
ah But then things start to go wrong. And in her performance, trying to figure out what has happened to make her, her heels touch the ground and so many other horrific things that could happen to a person.
00:01:57
Speaker
She goes to the real world, to the country of California and the state of Los Angeles to find the girl who has been playing with her and try to fix the membrane between Barbie land and the real world.
00:02:13
Speaker
And inadvertently brings ah Ken along with her who then discovers the patriarchy, brings the patriarchy back to Barbie land and infects the minds of all of the Barbies and Kens.
00:02:28
Speaker
ah But fortunately, everything is put right at the end. And um our human characters get to go back to the real world. Our Barbies get to stay in Barbie land.
00:02:40
Speaker
And Barbie undergoes a transformation into a new version of herself. I think that's broad strokes. I think that's i think that that captures it for sure.
00:02:54
Speaker
Okay. So um I'd seen the movie probably three or four times already. So I knew what I was in for when i ah playfully suggested this movie to Ariel, but you had not seen the movie. So I would love to hear your initial response to the film. Okay.
00:03:17
Speaker
So I, in the last episode, definitely talked about like why didn't go see this movie. Cause I definitely have that. Stop telling me that something is the best thing that's ever happened because I'm not going to believe you. Let me judge it for myself.
00:03:31
Speaker
So I am glad that I waited until now to see it and to have like a little bit more of a directed reason for why to watch it. So not to watch it in response to the, oh my God, it's the best thing. Oh my God. little And so, because that...
00:03:48
Speaker
would have absolutely changed how I felt about it watching it from that point of view because I was hesitant. yeah Because as you pointed out, this is Feminism 101, which means that it is very, very ah white feminist um look at feminism.
Barbie as a Feminist Primer
00:04:05
Speaker
and so it's like I even back then when it came out and it had like such a ah that so much. extravaganza. An extravaganza of pink and Barbie and sparkles.
00:04:18
Speaker
I was like, I want to support something that's about feminism, but i You're not sure if this that's what this is. Well, no, it's it's like I want to celebrate it for what it is, which is a primer on feminism.
00:04:31
Speaker
And like, um i want that to be able to be okay and not have me like shit on it and not like accept it for what it is, which is that. But um because, you know, my frustration is always going to be like, this is not the end the conversation. this is like a very pink door that you have to walk through.
00:04:52
Speaker
And like... So watching it this time from this point of view and perspective of looking at costumes, which are such a big character in this movie.
00:05:05
Speaker
Huge. I enjoyed Barbie. I enjoyed it. And I enjoyed the way that it was a primer on feminism because it really is 101.
00:05:16
Speaker
um, yeah. and um It's like, have you heard? this is a thing. This is the word. The word is pink. But there's a lot of humor in it. There's a lot of cleverness in it. And there's also so much so much work on the costume side, the design side, the acting is great. I think it's really nicely cast.
00:05:40
Speaker
um It's very much a perfect thing. Like I would actually be really happy if like in classes and in schools, like they show this as like a beginning to the conversation about feminism and intersectionality etc because like it's such a great first step and it's just like a friendly step because of the humor and the casting like you you got the you got to watch me watch the last 10 minutes yes i did so and then that actually launched us into like an hour-long conversation ah about yes
00:06:16
Speaker
yeah Yeah, a lot of stuff. um And so it it it really is a great way to start the conversation and to get the conversation going. But i knew that there was going to be a lot that I enjoyed about it because like, I've of course been exposed to so much of like what happened in
Personal Connections to Barbie
00:06:34
Speaker
here. Like, I'm just Ken.
00:06:36
Speaker
Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, like, I don't think you could have avoided that. i know I know. Like, oh, I'm like all these different things. I said stand confidently right here. Like all of that. It's so funny.
00:06:51
Speaker
It's very funny. And it really, really is well cast. And I think that it's very exciting to see Greta Gerwig's, um, career as it you know, unfolds.
00:07:03
Speaker
And i just want to like jump in on the costume conversation. and so the first thing I want to um point out is, um, Well, okay. So I did not do deep research. That surprises absolutely no one.
00:07:19
Speaker
don't know. Like, I think it's everything is just on screen in this movie. Like you can see it gets there. And I think that it's, i I think that,
00:07:32
Speaker
It's not hard to imagine how this stuff was made. Like, you know, it was built looking at it. You know that it was created for the movie. Like, it's so specific. So so did you read certain stuff about it?
00:07:49
Speaker
I did. I read a couple articles. I also um have the movie on Blu-ray and there's a nice little like five, 10 minute back ah thing where we're like they're specifically talking about the costumes and they have um Jacqueline Duran like talking and then they have some of the actors like talking about their interaction with the costume. So it's kind of like a nice little thing. um But she did talk a bit about her process, which was super helpful to read but like it there's no like deep mysteries
00:08:24
Speaker
No, I don't think so. yeah But it was really affirming to have her talk about how she had access to the like Mattel archive of Barbie because it's like, well, yeah, she had to, but it's also like this is a movie being made like in conjunction with a giant corporation. So like of course they're going to let her in and look at stuff, but like thank God.
00:08:49
Speaker
But it's also like... it It's interesting watching it um because I think that we're younger than Greta Gerwig, but not like crazy age gap, I think.
00:09:05
Speaker
And there was so much ah like so much stuff like being referenced in like Barbie Land with the Barbies and the Kens and the costumes and like props that i was like,
00:09:17
Speaker
I recognize these things as being the Barbie that I know from my childhood in like the 80s and ninety s And I think that that was, I read that that was a lot of the reference that like Greta Gerwig was drawn to was like 70s and 80s Barbies because like that was what she knew.
00:09:37
Speaker
That was like where she was interacting with Barbie. And it's kind of the same thing for me. So like I noticed so much of the eighty s And like 90s influence in the clothing because like that's the era of Barbie that I'm the most familiar with too.
00:09:54
Speaker
um Were you a Barbie person when you were a kid? Okay. My connection to Barbie is slightly different. Very concentrated, and I can't even tell you what age.
00:10:07
Speaker
But yes, I did have some Barbies. I had a Barbie convertible that I actually got to drive at my grandparents. That's right. And that that shit was awesome. Like, if there had been any other children in that area, i would have been like, everybody gets a turn.
00:10:23
Speaker
um But it was just me and a bunch of meant much older people. um I think I had... some form of a Barbie dream house, but I can't remember.
00:10:38
Speaker
And um my whole thing was that I always wanted my Barbies to become real, right? Like I yeah definitely had that. And I had a brief flirtation with a weird Barbie face.
00:10:51
Speaker
Definitely was a little bit weird, just like haircuts to some of my Barbies. But like, i think I was kind of like precious with my Barbies, but like I didn't really know how to play with them except for to imagine like you're going come along with me and do all this stuff that I'm doing because you know for when you become real you'll know how do it. You need to know.
00:11:12
Speaker
Yeah. I think Barbie was my first um client as a designer. She wore a lot of my creations. I feel like i made a lot of Barbie outfits out of like the sort of like tin foily gum wrappers, you know, that are like paper on one side of foil on the other.
00:11:35
Speaker
i think I made a lot of Barbie outfits out of those. She was very into the futuristic aesthetic and And I think I like sculpted some Barbie outfits out of like pipe cleaners where I'd like wrap the pipe cleaners around like Barbie to like make clothes for her that way.
00:11:54
Speaker
um That's pretty great. ah Right? I really wanted a Barbie dream house, but I had something that that I don't think exists anymore. of like I mean, who knows? But like it was a Barbie house that folded up into like a briefcase size thing, and it like folded out, and it was like a condo specifically.
00:12:16
Speaker
Yeah. I had that. That's pretty great. And that sounds like really familiar. Right? i feel like it was probably popular at the time. Yeah. Because I feel like we were in the Polly Pocket era. Oh. Where it was like, how can we make things transportable and foldable? Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes. I also remember having a doll whose skirt was made of like rubber and she like folded up into like a cupcake and she had like a hat that was like the top of the cupcake. I remember that for sure. There was like a line of those that'll disappear. kind of
00:12:50
Speaker
Yes. I also had those those dolls that you that had like the wing arms and you put them on like the launcher and like they like flew in the air. I also had those. They like they like spun like a helicopter.
00:13:02
Speaker
Oh my god. i was really, really into pretty sparkly dolls that like did weird shit. That was like my wheelhouse. We were very much the same generation.
00:13:14
Speaker
We marketed the same exact toys. I am right with you. Also, Fern Gully it was like such a big deal in my childhood. Oh my god. Fairies. fairy yeah Fairies.
00:13:26
Speaker
Fairies were so important. I didn't really have like, right? I didn't really have like a specific weird Barbie, but I do remember having a ah conflict with my mother when I took the hair out of its pre-styled style on my jasmine.
00:13:43
Speaker
Barbie because she was like an officially licensed Disney Barbie and my mom was like I didn't spend all this money this Barbie for you to mess up her hair which I did for sure that is very similar because like our parents like our mothers related to dolls very differently than we did.
00:14:08
Speaker
And my mom was born in 46. And so like fifties Barbie, she would have been like 10, you know? And so my mom collected, dot okay, I say collected. She had to summon dolls.
00:14:21
Speaker
and So, um, they were, uh, uh, Madame Alexander dolls is that the brand oh I don't know her yeah they were a very specific type of doll and so um she like was a doll aficionado as I got older, actually became opposite because I was like, oh, you're going to come to life negative. You're going to try to murder me.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah. And there was like a shelf in my room that was just full of stuffed animals and dolls. And i do I didn't tell my mom this
Generational Perceptions of Barbie
00:14:56
Speaker
until I was like a later teenager. And i was like, I've been scared of dolls for most of my life. And my mom was like, what?
00:15:03
Speaker
Because like dolls were her thing. and so she wanted to share that with me. And I was like, they're actually horrifying. I'm so sorry. So demonic. So scary.
00:15:14
Speaker
So the um the Billie Eilish music video for the Barbie song where she's sitting at the table and she has that black like Barbie kind of like travel case that she opens and she pulls all the outfits out.
00:15:28
Speaker
My mom had that exact case and And my grandparents saved it. So I had that black Barbie case and I played with that when I was a little kid.
00:15:40
Speaker
it was definitely like kind of worn by the time that I got it, but I recognize it from that video. um But I think, and I'll ask my mom afterwards and she can correct me. I think that my mom said that when she was a kid, she was only allowed in giant quotation marks to have skipper because she was like the younger sister herself.
00:16:08
Speaker
And her parents wouldn't buy her a Barbie. They would only buy her like the younger sister. So I think there was like an issue between her and my aunt that was older about like, she was not allowed to have Barbie, which is like fully psychotic and a little window into like the problems that we could talk about offline.
00:16:29
Speaker
But um it is, it is incredible. Like, i One of the things that I like about this movie and the fact that like two of the main characters are a mother and a daughter is to show how different the importance and the impact was of these dolls on two different generations. And these are like more recent generations even. And so it's like...
00:16:54
Speaker
it was real. And the fact that like Barbie was political, hundred percent. Barbie was, Barbie had a lot of response, like is yeah during different points of her existence. And so this is a movie that absolutely could been made. And like, you know, versions from the other side of like a more reality based could be made, you know? Yeah. It's trippy.
00:17:18
Speaker
I, I definitely felt like, connection to Sasha in her response to Barbie as being this like anti-feminist problematic toy like that is certainly how I felt about Barbie as like a teenager um But I never really like thought about consciously thought about the fact that Barbie is like a fully autonomous adult doll whose identity has nothing to do with being a mom. or a wife like I never thought about that but I did not like baby dolls when I was a kid I had no interest in those at all I think I had like one that someone had given me and I was like I don't care about this like I like Barbie she's glamorous yeah baby sucks I can't do anything
00:18:17
Speaker
I feel like I had baby dolls and like, cause we, we were around a time where there were certain baby dolls where they were like expanding on the technology of how to make this doll look like it's eating and doing things.
00:18:30
Speaker
And, um, so I'm sure I had that, but I didn't have any like particular attachment that the doll. Okay. The doll that is like, We lived through a few different series of important dolls.
00:18:45
Speaker
But like the penultimate most important doll in my childhood was a chipmunk that I had. That was about the size of my thumb. It's very tiny.
00:18:58
Speaker
and I would carry that little shit everywhere. and I had a dollhouse, right? And so like my mom built me this dollhouse and I still have it and I want to like refurbish it someday. um i was like, it was all about anthropomorphizing toys to me, right? And so it was like not, and I'm not unique in saying that, but it's like, I loved being able to give this little chipmunk a house and be like,
00:19:22
Speaker
okay, I'll see you later. And like, have fun in the library. oh and like having appropriate size furniture and like little accessories. I love that.
00:19:33
Speaker
Second, most important. Okay. Level of importance is not going to be reflected by these numbers, but there was a fit of ah a point of time where I used to drag around a laundry basket um that had my Care Bears in them.
00:19:50
Speaker
Oh, because Care Bears were my thing. Yeah. yeah The most like interactive that I really got with dolls was with the American dolls.
00:20:03
Speaker
and Oh, my God. I wanted one so bad. so like the dressing American dolls, the accessories, which, by the way, someday you should come up here and I'll show you because I still have all of it.
00:20:15
Speaker
um So the way that people interacted with Barbie. yeah Because like I did, but not in the way that people like remember or talk about. I did that with American Girls. And I had the Samantha doll. And ah had like a beach barbecue set where there's like a little table that has an umbrella. There's a barbecue, the food the guy that it. Oh, my God. Little foil chip packets.
00:20:40
Speaker
I had her bed. and like I had a matching nightgown that I wore. Oh, my God. i And the books, I used to read the books, like all of the American girls.
00:20:51
Speaker
so I understand being able to resonate or you know like with a doll that is not representing a mother or a wife. Because like yeah yes, those American Girl dolls were representative of different eras in the past, but they were children,
00:21:10
Speaker
And so it was like, I'm a little girl too. ah so I could like totally do that. So I do have that level of understanding of connection that people have with Barbie and like yeah what she represented to them.
00:21:25
Speaker
It's probably healthier. Like I feel like American Girl dolls were like – your like liberal parents are buying you the american girl doll and there's this interview from like many years ago now where tina faye talks about like struggling with the fact that her like young daughters both wanted barbies and like all they wanted to do was like play out these like social dramas of like girls fighting through barbies and she's like Maybe the girls could get along and maybe they could not be Barbies.
00:21:58
Speaker
didn't like Maybe it could be something else. And they're like, no, they're Barbies and they hate each other. Like, i think that like, its it's weird because like, you know, like I consider myself like a progressive person, a liberal person, but it's like, I can't deny pull of the shiny pink plastic Barbie. Like I just can't.
00:22:21
Speaker
Well, it's also like the main character thing, right? Because it's like to all of us, we are the main character of our own story because we're seeing the world through our own perspective. And so when you have this little thing that you can anthropomorphize and you want to have these adventures that you yourself aren't having, of course you want it to be the main storyline. Like if I'm going to be playing with a Barbie, she's going to be this, doing this.
00:22:44
Speaker
This is what we're doing today. We're going to solve world peace. Yeah. it is we're gonna do it we're gonna solve murder today it's what we're do barbie um i feel like american girl exists without barbie because like it would have just continued on the trend of baby dolls and kitchenettes and all that stuff but it's like no here are things that you're experiencing there are things that other little girls experience and like you know you are
00:23:16
Speaker
able to survive things. You're able to problem solve. You're able to investigate. You're able to do hard things. And that's the same thing that Barbie was like initiating was you can do hard things. You can do fun things. You can do anything and you can also wear a perfect playset. to And I do think at the end of the day that that is the most important part about it is like the perfect outfit is really important to the task. Perfect segue into the subject that we're here for. Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.
00:23:50
Speaker
Yeah, I completely derailed this. You were like, let's talk about the costumes. And I was like, let's talk about our childhood. Listen, I'm here for whatever we're going to talk about because we have a – a thing that we do and it is whatever we want so I thought that it was really really cool that Anne Roth the costume designer ah was the older lady that Barbie sits with and says you're
Costume Design in 'Barbie'
00:24:16
Speaker
so beautiful when she's understanding you can get old and that she's like feeling feelings she's never felt before she's crying and going through this connection with her human um who's been playing with her
00:24:29
Speaker
yeah And so I loved that it was a costume designer who was who was the person sitting on that bench. And Anne Roth has had a very, very storied career. and she's been present in a lot of things that a lot of people have seen.
00:24:43
Speaker
and I just like love that her, and I guess that she and Greta Gerwig have a really sweet personal relationship. And so she was like, yeah, sure, I'll be in this. Yeah. She's just in there for like a minute, but it's such a beautiful, impactful moment.
00:24:56
Speaker
But I liked that representation costume and the wineries. um I thought that was just neat. Such a beautiful, touching moment. And like Margot Robbie's in that pink, like Western, like coiled denim with stars on the butt. Like it's so...
00:25:16
Speaker
I think that's what makes me, what endears this movie to me so much is like we can have this like beautiful emotional moment and she's in a cowgirl outfit that is so ridiculous.
00:25:28
Speaker
But like it's so perfect and it looks so good on her and it's like the everything about it is oh like so perfect that it's like hilarious. But like yes you can like still have like a human moment. Ugh. Yeah, because I mean, she could have been like wearing a hot dog and it's still like, yeah, still would have been able in this movie with this writing direction, the actors, you still would' have been able to find that and it's like, so well chosen. outfit is just so good.
00:25:59
Speaker
And it's also like after such a such heavy whiplash of her being in the real world for the first time. And this was the outfit that she figured would help her kind of like fit in. Yeah. And it would make people like her. And she's just being objectified like crazy. And then she's like feeling the emotions from her human and like feeling for her human. and,
00:26:21
Speaker
And just like seeing people all around her and seeing how they're existing in the world, sad, upset, like having fun, children, adults. Like it's just, it's pretty, it's pretty great. Like the language of costume in this is so great and, and so flipping bright. Okay. So there's so many things I want to talk about. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah. One of them is, do you know how long they had to to make all these costumes to get it all ready?
00:26:49
Speaker
I do know because I think I read that article too. yeah Vogue. Thank you, Vogue. Was it Variety? Variety Vogue? One of those. I read them both. Yeah. So 11 weeks, 11 weeks. Maybe – eleven we maybe that sounds long to someone but like every single scene everybody in this movie is in a different outfit like constantly i don't even know how many costumes are in this movie it's an insane number and there are so many Barbies and Kens there are a lot of people that like
00:27:30
Speaker
Like one of the complaints about this movie is that like a lot of like, you know, very good famous actors are very like, quote, you know, underutilized in the movie. And I'm like, there's just so many people in the movie. Can I just say that that's such an American way of looking at film. And I'm so glad when people can kind of understand from like other things that it's okay to do that.
00:27:54
Speaker
Because like when you see movies coming from like the UK different parts of Asia, it's an ensemble. Yeah. And usually in America, the only way we do that is in Shakespeare or with Agatha Christie, but it's like, no, you can have a million actors and just have them be that character. And that's okay.
00:28:16
Speaker
And I did, I have to say, I really love that there were three actors from um the Netflix show, Sex Education, which also has amazing costumes, which I pointed out to you. But all three of them are like in this and,
00:28:29
Speaker
so been
00:28:32
Speaker
oh my God. Something that think was in the um the little like ah behind in the scenes video that I watched was the designer Jacqueline talking about how She asked the actors what about themselves they wanted to like bring into the design of their clothing.
00:29:00
Speaker
And like some of the um examples that she gave was, think, do I want to look this up? Yeah. yeah when if I know one of the actors who whose name I cannot think of is um Filipina. And so they use this very particular sleeve construction that's used in the Philippines for like women's formal wear. And they used it on one of her costumes because she wanted her mom to like see the movie and recognize the sleeve and like know that it was like from their heritage. Yeah.
00:29:39
Speaker
And I think that's so beautiful. and she also um had, ah I think it's Nicola Coogan. Is that how you pronounce her last name?
00:29:54
Speaker
the i The British actress. I think it's Hugh. Yeah. i don't I'm so sorry, Nicola. I should know you're very famous. She's from Bridgerton and Derry Girls. and But she asked Oh, Coughlin. Nicola Coughlin. Coughlin, thank you. So sorry, Nicola. My apologies. And She asked if her costume could be a recreation of an actual Barbie that she had she was a kid. And Jacqueline was like, yeah, of course. And so they like recreated the actual like Barbie costume, like stuff like that, that I'm like, that is so nice and collaborative of the designer to like do that and want to do that.
00:30:39
Speaker
And I feel like the entire understanding and approach of costume in this movie, because it is at the forefront, was such a ah lovely thing to see as a costumer because it was part of the conversation for everybody, not just about accessibility, not just about you know physical need or how many versions of this do we have so that we have each step of this wound that's going to bleed out. you know like How are we telling...
00:31:08
Speaker
the journey is like part of the conversation, but it's not the full conversation. There's also an interview transcript, motionpictures.org with our designer.
00:31:20
Speaker
And um the question is movie costumes usually express the hero's interior life, right? And her response is in a regular film, When an actress plays someone, her character dictates what she wears, but in this instance, it's not the same relationship to the character.
00:31:35
Speaker
Barbie, all the Barbies, wear things appropriate to what they're doing. The reason for her costume comes from outside of the character. So I love that there's like... the opportunities were taken that were provided of like the research with Mattel and being able to go, okay, well, this is this set. So we're going to have all these things. We're going to have this specific thing from this era, like the 2001 space odyssey opening but bathing suit Barbie, which was pretty fricking stunning.
00:32:05
Speaker
um it's like cave, cave girls. nineteen fifty s like housewife miniature cave girls. It's crazy. but Have you seen the meme that's like is the Werner Herzog children's collection? like Yes.
00:32:19
Speaker
Sad beige clothes for sad beige children. That's what it was. That's exactly what it was. And so like being able to to take all of those opportunities for all that research and to be able to be supported in that and then to...
00:32:35
Speaker
to be able to have super tight color palettes, like so tight that you have these tight color maps. And then you can print the specific fabrics that you need. Yes. So that you can maintain just having, which I love, three colors.
00:32:52
Speaker
in one scene at any time in Barbie land. Because like, first of all, when you do things in design, when I do things in design, I learned this in art school, do things in an odd number because an even number is a little bit boring to the eye.
00:33:07
Speaker
Whereas odd things make your eyes move around and it's go be like oh what's that yeah it's appealing, it's satisfying. And yeah so having those like opportunities to do that also being supported, like all the things that any kind of designer would want are here.
00:33:23
Speaker
Having your cast... be integrated into the costuming with their own stories in like little details and like their own little memories being shared and showing how important these things were to them. And, you know, just like all these things that we love about costume are kind of on display here because it's not just about the clothing itself. It's about the culture and the culture being the people around you. And so like telling people stories and like,
00:33:51
Speaker
The different ways in which that's here is just like chef kids like and like, when you're talking about printing the textiles, something that was that I was really, really happy to see in this movie is um anytime you're working like,
00:34:11
Speaker
Barbie, an actual Barbie doll is like what, like 11 inches tall, I think, something like that from like head to foot. They're small. and when you're making clothes for something that small, the scale of the textile gets kind of like warped because, you know, like stripes only get so small when they're like made in textiles and like certain things like only get to a certain scale. So like the way that they used the textiles to reflect the distortion
00:34:51
Speaker
of scale on a doll and then recreate that on a person. So like, like Ken's like beach outfit, that's like the green and pink pastel stripes. Those stripes are like quite wide.
00:35:04
Speaker
Whereas like, if you were just making that beach outfit, they'd probably be these like narrow little stripes, maybe even like a seersucker scale, but like Barbie can't do that.
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah, and people get very precious about stripes in our scale because people have this whole thing about like stripes make you look a certain type of way. And it's like that goes into it too. But yeah, I love this point, like taking into doll scale.
00:35:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's something that has always been interesting to me, even like as a kid, um especially like the closures of actual like Barbie clothes, where lot of them, when we were kids, would have this like thick strip of like Velcro down like the back, because Velcro only gets so small,
00:35:56
Speaker
Yeah, or like the kind of like awkwardly sized snaps, the plastic snaps, the metal snaps. yeah Whereas like, if you were a human wearing that the snap would be like six inches across or something because like un initially large. Huge and so weird.
Creative Team and Unique Style
00:36:14
Speaker
And like the way that the the costume and design took all of that in and like used that to make the actors that are human sized look like dolls is something that I just really, really appreciate. And
00:36:33
Speaker
I really can't imagine what this movie would be like if it was made by like a completely separate team of like director, designers, like actors. Like I don't think that we would be talking about this movie if it was made by different people because it is so successful at what it was trying to do.
00:36:56
Speaker
I agree. I think that there's just like kind of a level of humor and fun that is still in it, even though it's talking about something emotional and like serious. And it's not just like sunshine, lollipops and rainbows.
00:37:14
Speaker
Like the fact that Ken such his, his character evolution is to turn into this Like 1980s Goonies version of Sylvester Stallone. know. It's so good.
00:37:33
Speaker
And like Ralph Macchio somehow. You can see, like I can tell that Ryan Gosling is like a borrowing a little like gesture from um Danny Zuko.
00:37:47
Speaker
Because like there's a moment in Greece where Danny has been rejected by Sandy and he goes, uh because he's trying to like play it off that he doesn't care um like for his dumb friends and ryan gosling as ken does that like two or three times in this movie that i'm like that is from greece i know what that is they even show a clip from greece during the like i'm just ken like ah dream ballet whatever you want to call it It's just like, okay.
00:38:19
Speaker
So first of all, the way that color is used in this, because like Barbie can, the, the I mean, like 60s to the ninety s had so many opportunities for such crazy bright stuff that like, you can't just skip past that.
00:38:36
Speaker
And then now with like sequins, why not Right. Right. And so like Barbie Lynn and to make it more doll-like lean into the colors. And so yeah there's like so much saturation, so much color. And then to have that dream ballet, be so stripped down that everybody's wearing this identical outfit. That's all black, the shirt, the belt, the trousers, and then to have, and the shoes, and then to have these like purple, like kind of like fuchsia. Are they fuchsia are they like purple? Like I can't even think right now.
00:39:08
Speaker
But they're this like very saturated like color and everybody's wearing the same sock in the same color. And the impact of that is pretty heightened. They're like bubblegum pink, I think. Are they bubblegum pink? Because like there's something there. pretty sure they're pink Maybe when I looked at one moment, the lighting had changed and the floor was like kind of affecting it.
00:39:27
Speaker
but The floor on one side, because it's like this big, like open space. It's very singing in the rain, like dream ballet space. But one side is blue and one side is pink on the floor when they're like running at each other.
00:39:42
Speaker
But I'm pretty sure the socks are all pink. I believe you entirely. Like, just so the audience knows, my voice obviously sounds different because I'm sick. So my eyeballs work at a different rate than they normally You're like, I believe you. Okay, whatever.
00:39:58
Speaker
But like, whatever, which it also makes, yeah, they're totally bubble gum pink. I'm looking at a picture. Yeah. And so it it was just when I was looking at them and thinking about it, the lighting was different. and so Yeah, of course.
00:40:09
Speaker
yeah but like Because it's a dream ballet. The lighting is very experimental and moody. But like having all these Ken's together, ankle to ankle, and having that like ray of like pink, like unifying them like that. I was like, I want to see that number on stage because that's just hilarious.
00:40:27
Speaker
Did you see it when they did it at the Oscars? did I did not. Oh, they they did a performance of I Am Just Ken at the Oscars and they recreated – referenced the Marilyn Monroe Diamonds Are Girl's Best Friend. Okay.
00:40:44
Speaker
Yeah. It's worth watching. So thank universe, for having already done this that I can go backwards this point of view.
Color and Contrast in 'Barbie'
00:40:52
Speaker
um the The use of color is like so fun and so –
00:40:59
Speaker
interesting because like yes barbieland is super saturated and super crazy but when we come over to the real world it's not like we lose all color you know like that's such an easy thing to do and we've done it before on stage and it's like you always go drab for one and bright for the other or gray for one and bright for the other and like And this one is just like, no, it's just different styles. yeah And like the color is just used differently in the real world. And like yeah it's not 90s spandex, know.
00:41:29
Speaker
It's not. But I do think that the color pink is very restricted in the real world. It really is. only very specific places. So it's like that's maybe the difference. But yeah, the tone is just normal what people actually – It's just a little bit more sedate.
00:41:45
Speaker
Yeah. where Because if you're constantly so surrounded by this saturation, you would get used to it, but it's a little bit of like a, ah an assault on the eyes. Like just cause it's so heightened at all times that your eyes are working harder than if you just like dial it back a little bit and then have some points of of brightness. And so, um, I, I mean,
00:42:07
Speaker
okay Two, I loved everything about the costumes, but there are two things that I thought were pretty, pretty amazing. Right. Considering how, ah short a time they had to do all of this, um including like all the resources that were supporting them.
00:42:24
Speaker
But these two, one is not a montage. One is the the Ken battle, but it's a little bit montage-y because you have um all of these different Kens wearing different styles of Ken all assembled together. And then you have the the opening...
00:42:43
Speaker
like montage of Barbies, like here's the first Barbie. And then here was the second Barbie and the third and the fourth. And so it's like, you have these specific looks and then you just have like but all these other Barbies. Right. And so you have like, yeah,
00:42:57
Speaker
in Barbie world, all Barbies like have to be their own Barbie. And so they're not like in the, in the dance, they're a little bit closer together, but like aside from that, they have to have their own specific look.
00:43:15
Speaker
And that's so many specific looks to have back to back to back to back to back for just such a short sequence where That it's like, oh my God.
Memorable Costume Moments
00:43:25
Speaker
And then like the Ken fight.
00:43:27
Speaker
So many, like so many different versions of athletic wear that is cropped. Oh my God. And like such the shortest shorts. The 70s shorts and shorts that are super high waist and teeny tiny.
00:43:41
Speaker
And like the wristbands, accessories, like the crop sweatshirts, all these different things. But it doesn't. blow your mind ever because of the use of color because they were like if we have all of this going on all the time we're going to feel nauseous or we're just going to get lost but if we keep it tight then it feels deliberate and it feels yeah the way that you know merchandisable item should feel which is like a collection has been thought about.
00:44:13
Speaker
i I mean, and loved it. Like, do you have a, just ah an aside, do you have like a favorite number or costume? I do.
00:44:23
Speaker
I think have a favorite costume that particularly for Barbie, it's her outfit. um That is a like dress jacket hat combination. That's like blue, green, and pink pastel plaid.
00:44:47
Speaker
Is it the, it's the one where she has her existential crisis. Yes. I love that. Love that costume. Like, because, and something that I was really looking at this time is, um,
00:45:00
Speaker
that the the hat and the jacket are like slightly more saturated version of that plaid. And the dress is just slightly less saturated version of that plaid.
00:45:15
Speaker
So that when she like takes the jacket and the hat off, you can actually like see the difference. And it's so subtle But having seen the movie like four times now, i like recognize it.
00:45:29
Speaker
um But there's just something... I don't know what it is, but there's something that is just so perfect. like that just like Everything about that outfit just hits like everything that I love. And it's just a little bit ridiculous. The skirt is like very full, but like short.
00:45:53
Speaker
the The jacket and the hat have this very like early kind kind of like vibe to and cut a kind of like a skirt suit with a jacket cut. that Just something about it just is so perfect to me. I would have to pick that one.
00:46:09
Speaker
I'm right with you. Because like I think that it it's also like kind of calmed down colors. Yeah. like And I think that it works too at the point where Barbie's at where she's like, we're going back and I'm going to help you because you're going to see how amazing everything is here. So there's like ah kind of like a settled peacefulness to like the the way that the colors work where it's not like as aggressive and saturated as it could have been and so your eyes are like getting to like rest a little bit in that moment and then of course it's like really funny to see how she's moving in it because she's like fuck this it takes like off the jacket and just
00:46:46
Speaker
lays and then rolls out on her face I've never been this low before literally or emotionally when they cut to the depression Barbie commercial and they used that clip from the BBC Pride and Prejudice I like screamed in the theater I like literally screamed it when like a beat later you see the Barbie that's her or it's in that outfit and I just like
00:47:17
Speaker
There's so much humor in how these things are put together. And i I have like so few intelligent things to say. I'm sorry, but it's like, they're just so delightful. And like, there's so many lines where somebody is saying something wearing these things.
00:47:35
Speaker
that are a heightened version of how people have dressed, you know, throughout time that it's like, okay, this is like, this is bonkers. So it's like, cause what, okay.
00:47:48
Speaker
I love how in the Barbie dream house, When she gets up, she like magically walks towards a box that magically replenishes itself for an outfit and accessories for the next day. All of her outfits, every Barbie's outfit, I think, they operate under the same rules that the Barbie doll outfits worked with, which is you always had accessories. You always have like yeah three pieces, if you will, like if not four. So like the shoes, the but outfit, and like a neckerchief and a hat. Like there's always a purse and a hat.
00:48:18
Speaker
There's always the bits. Yeah. yeah and so that's like very 50s 60s 40s and before like it's a very specific to not really how we dress now because now it's more like i want to put things together i want to style it but it's not like this matches and goes with this specifically all the time right and um so i loved the way that that worked like i loved how um weird Barbie like how how she's kind of like stepped down from everybody else because it looks like she's she's wearing something that like a kid could have put together even you know like i yes but she's also not stepped down because she's been drawn all over and her hair is crazy and then she gets like she gets like it's not the right word but it kind of is she turns into like militant weird Barbie like at the end where she's like everything's crazy and this is where I'm comfortable and Yes. She's got like, she's got like tinfoil.
00:49:16
Speaker
Yeah. She's got like these pattern like tights that are bonkers. And like her hair is like totally working now. And, and like, she's wiped the marker off of her face. Like there's just so many details. And then aside from that, Alan freaking delightful. It's amazing.
00:49:39
Speaker
is Ken's clothes, they all fit me. It's like, is where he's a weird idea. But he's like such a he's dressed like such a like 80s older brother, you know, like older brother, freshman in college.
00:49:55
Speaker
Yeah, who like is trying to figure it out. like a kind of a dad at a barbecue like yeah he will he'll figure it out eventually but he hasn't quite yet because he's wearing somebody else's clothes like just constantly wearing somebody else's clothes and like all of his little bits are so good and um all those pink jumpsuits at the end when they're like reprogram or deprogramming all the barbies yes I was trying to figure out what they're made of because those pink jumpsuits are like not made out of what coveralls are made out of. There's like a sheen and like a softness to the fabric that's like a little different.
00:50:36
Speaker
So there was something interesting that I did read that pointed that out and I am actually going try to look for it. And while i look for it, I'm going to talk about the fact that um so much of Barbie's clothes were just Chanel and yes by Chanel.
00:50:50
Speaker
So if they didn't have anything and they were like, little Chanel was like, oh, we can make that. Or we can provide that, which is like, what? Yeah. I love vintage Chanel clothes. And i always have since I like learned what those are when I was like a teenager. like The boucle suits, it's very Jackie Onassis. And i love that shit like that is for me like i was so happy to see so much chanel and so much vintage chanel in this movie i like can't even tell you yeah it was it's the best so the the little comment that i saw about the boiler suits the jumpsuits was that um this is the vogue article and um jacqueline is talking about
00:51:45
Speaker
how many costume changes there are. and um Greta quote, Greta writes at 100 miles an hour, often four scenes in a page of script. There's a lot of costume changes and quote, she says with a laugh of the hundreds of looks her team created from Barbie refuse collectors to Barbie postal workers. There were dozens of jobs to dress, leaving Duran's team trawling through shops for the perfect pink boiler suit or a barbified toolkit.
00:52:10
Speaker
And I read in a different I think is a different, uh, the interview from like motion picture pictures.org. I think that, um, she was talking about how people were shopping. She had shoppers like in LA and in the States.
00:52:27
Speaker
And she had a team going through shops all over London, just with their like printouts of their color sheets and color stories.
00:52:37
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not surprised. I wonder if, because boiler suits are mentioned in the Vogue one, if they bought these boiler suits somewhere, like if they found them, or if they built them, because like, yeah, it makes sense to have built them because it's so specific.
00:52:54
Speaker
It's so specific. I would have assumed that they them. have assumed built, yeah. But maybe not. But did you notice in that scene where therere they're trying to deprogram all the Barbies and they like are in all the suits and they're coming out of the back of the van? Yeah.
00:53:10
Speaker
The Barbie that they're using for a decoy, she's wearing ah like a red top and like a blue denim mini skirt. Her boiler suit was altered to be a skirt, a long skirt, so that when they rip it off of her, she has a skirt underneath.
00:53:30
Speaker
It's very, very quick. but It's very quick, so I didn't see that. I'm like playing it through my head. Yeah, you can see it again. And in the like behind the scenes, they show that clip, but it like lingers on that for like an extra second. And you can tell that they altered it to turn it into like a maxi skirt so that they could rip it off of her and not have it be pants.
00:53:55
Speaker
And I was like, yes, I was right. Fun. That's so fun. I know. os Like there's just – So much deliberate. I mean,
00:54:07
Speaker
It's really hard to say this about like movies, right? Because no matter what you're watching until you find out afterwards about Jurassic Park, but like most movies that you're watching, obviously there's deliberate thought, right? And like, it's not just triage, like it's deliberate thought.
00:54:20
Speaker
And there's been enough time to go, okay, this is a problem. We have a character who's wearing this like corset. corsety looking bodice and a skirt so how are we going to get her from a boiler suit to this because like the pace of our movement is so fast and we want this to be like a theatrical change boom well okay we're not going to put her in a boiler suit we're going to put her into an altered boiler suit that is just a different version of this as if this is just what she wears everything she has is a different version of this And it's like, oh, good. And then you have the time to do that.
00:54:52
Speaker
Yes. So rad. And it's like, i I just love like opportunities for this to people under for people to understand that costume is a tool and can be a fun tool and doesn't yeah just have to be something to tell you how cold or how hot it is outside or what period you're in.
00:55:12
Speaker
But like, that you can be like, shazam. And I feel like drag becoming more mainstream has yeah definitely allowed for more audience understanding of things like this and not just feeling like they're being hit in the face with like, like, I feel like big numbers before people were like, ah, um, the Rockettes.
00:55:35
Speaker
Um, Vegas showgirl, right? right yeah Where it's like, you're in a line, this is the purpose, why is that happening here? But then drag crossing over into more mainstream understanding. Now, visually, you don't have to hold your audience's hand and be like, this is a quick change.
00:55:52
Speaker
You can just be like, enjoy it.
Challenges and Stereotypes in Costume Design
00:55:56
Speaker
And i really, really love that. Bringing in stuff that That's just like a little bit more unexpected or like offbeat, like something that i kind of feel like I'm sometimes like banging my head against a wall when I'm working on projects is that Like, I don't think that if I have a character who's supposed to be like the beautiful, innocent, ingenue young woman, I don't think that she has to be in you know, white for the audience to understand that. And i find myself kind of...
00:56:35
Speaker
wanting to explore that stuff more and just like try something else and i find myself a lot of the times like at odds with the other like creative team members because i'm like we could do something else here like we don't have to do i that. Like I trust the audience and I trust the actor.
00:57:01
Speaker
i think of that as the Alice in Wonderland where Disney animated and we've talked about it before, I'm sure. But like Disney animated Alice in Wonderland and they put Alice in a blue dress. So even if you're not doing a Disney production of Alice in the Wonderland, Alice in Looking Glass, whatever it is,
00:57:20
Speaker
You will hit such a wall with your design team if you don't put her in blue. Unless it's like a specific design team that's going to be flexible. Because sometimes it's just like rears its head where people are like, oh, no, no, it has to be this thing. And it's like, why though? Why? Because what yeah you're supporting is like a different design.
00:57:39
Speaker
That was for a different purpose. And this, we can tell the same story differently. Do you think that only little girls have worn blue? Do you think that there's a uniform for little girls in the Victorian era where they all wore blue until they were? And like a white apron? Yeah, until they were like 18.
00:58:00
Speaker
Different social classes had access to different things. And like, right you could you could have an innocent character, Alice in Wonderland, in like, super, like, trad goth clothes, you know? Exactly. Like Susie and the Banshees in miniature. And it's not going to hold that back.
00:58:19
Speaker
Yeah. It's like the 60s movie version of Romeo and Juliet, the Zeffirelli. The designer, you know, it's like a famous example, but like the designer put Juliet in this like hot electric red, which is like a color that we would associate on like female characters with being like a vamp or a seductress or like something. But it's like it doesn't.
00:58:43
Speaker
matter what color Juliet is wearing Juliet is Juliet and it it's like I get it that we are communicating things with costume and there are associations that people make and like you can't ignore that and we are trying to tell story but like I don't know I just find myself it's just you can have opportunities to tell the story from a different perspective like that example you gave where putting Juliet in a color that we normally associate with vamps, it can heighten the fact that Juliet is supposed to be 13. And she's dressed in a way that we associate with seductress.
00:59:23
Speaker
right And that can show you a whole new way to appreciate the story because that's coming from outside of her. you know like it's it's These are all things where it feels like sometimes um in our field, we're given a lot of praise for, oh my God, you're washing all those socks.
00:59:45
Speaker
Thank you so much. Oh, thank you for washing all those mic packs. I wouldn't want to do it. Thank you so much for all that work that you did to put in that design. Oh, thank you for all of that knowledge that you had that made all these things look so good. and But when we're in the moment of having the conversation, it is not given weights.
01:00:02
Speaker
Nope. we're not respected as storytellers or researchers or historians or specialists or you know, people who have knowledge because people want to wipe away clothing so quickly. And like, I did not care about clothing the way that a lot of people who care very deeply about fashion did. And I still don't, I care about it in from a different way.
01:00:28
Speaker
And so it's like, i I have seen that and I have probably done it where it's like, log but it's like, I've grown up. I've recognized that like, you could talk to me about wrenches and I can trust that you have studied wrenches.
01:00:43
Speaker
And like, maybe I don't want to be here and I don't want to talk about wrenches, but I can be like, you have done this and you have this knowledge. Thank you. um I don't need you to impart it to me anymore, but in a situation where you are hired on as a designer you're part of a design team and you have this knowledge and maybe you have some extra letters behind your name that are part of like a title, or maybe you don't, maybe you've just done independent research and you've been teaching yourself stuff from books and manuals for years and years and years.
01:01:11
Speaker
But in the moment, what we have to, to offer It's just like a, of whatever, i want it to be this way. And then that's called collaboration, right?
01:01:23
Speaker
Which is very frustrating because it's like, yes, we are here in our role. Costume designers and costume teams, wardrobe teams are there to support the vision of the director.
01:01:34
Speaker
But what I like and appreciate so much about this movie is that it feels like You're a costume designer. You understand how important Barbie is And from the perspective of the director, here's what my dream is. Here's where I'm headed. Here's where we're all headed.
01:01:49
Speaker
Here are some things I would like to see because I remember them from being a firsthand witness, if you will. But I trust that you are a researcher who is going to find out how to populate the rest of this dream with things that existed to make it feel like this dream.
01:02:08
Speaker
And for me, it's like beyond research because yeah the the part that I get so frustrated by personally is when I get left out of...
01:02:21
Speaker
the storytelling part of the process. That's what pisses me off like the most because people don't like can, have things to offer besides just research.
01:02:35
Speaker
I understand the story and I understand the themes and it's really weird to me that people want to leave us out of yeah that part of the conversation as if you know like There's nothing that makes me understand that I'm not being valued on a project faster than just being told she needs to be in blue.
01:02:59
Speaker
and I'm like, that you're completely disregarding me as an artist in this moment and completely leaving me out of the storytelling because you think that I can't understand the story that you're telling. I can.
01:03:14
Speaker
I can you make the story make the story more if you would let me and so it's like it's a double it's a double wound because it's like all the things that we can bring to this our knowledge our skills all that stuff and also just our yeah the the creativity part of it and then you know she just needs to be in blue or or when you get hired onto a project And you're hired on under a certain title, like designer, you know, titles are intentional, right?
01:03:48
Speaker
Like coordinator is different from designer. Assistant is different from designer. All of these things are different and there are roles roles. parts of acts like parts of the storytelling that come with the different roles and so when you're hired on as a designer and then you show up and they're like oh well we've already decided what all of the characters are going to be wearing you just have to put them in it yeah I'm like, that is okay. Like, that's fine. That is a job.
01:04:17
Speaker
And it is an important job. But don't tell someone that they're coming in as a designer and then do that to them. That is not a designer. That is not the job that was was hired.
01:04:28
Speaker
Or that's not the job that was advertised. It's not the job that was interviewed for. It's not the one that you looked at my... my CV, my portfolio, my, my past work. That's not, that's not the same thing.
Collaboration in Costume Design
01:04:40
Speaker
And at all. And I don't want to, I don't want to have to educate other creatives on like how to be respectful of, like, I don't want that to be my job to have to like educate a director that they're completely dismissing me as a creative person on this project by not allowing me to create contribute creatively to it.
01:05:03
Speaker
Like just be so for real with me. And there's so many people that just lack any type of awareness. And if you try to point it out to them, they immediately like they don't want to work with you anymore.
01:05:16
Speaker
Because they want to use collaboration as like a blind. Well, yeah you have to collaborate. You have to be able to collaborate. Why are you being so difficult? Because I'm not being permitted to do the job.
01:05:29
Speaker
at all you're you're not collaborating with me you're not collaborating with me as this this job that was you know a need and that was filled with you know x person in this scenario me or you right it's like you you searched for a designer you hired one it's this person and um but you want to reduce that to a gopher Yeah. Go get me this, go do this, go do that.
01:05:54
Speaker
That's not, that's not what collaboration is. And it very often happens in costume because it's a predominantly, there are a lot of like non-binary and male costume designers, no question, but it is stereotyped as women's work.
01:06:13
Speaker
And so it is treated that way and so like pay scales reflect that treatment respects like reflects that credits can reflect that and um it's anywhere you go any theater company i i would love for somebody to tell us that they don't see a difference in a positive way between how scenic is treated and costumes are treated would love that yeah I would love that.
01:06:43
Speaker
Yeah. Genuinely. because Happy for anyone who is experiencing that. What a dream to just be respected for what you do. And it's like, it it is a part of the story. And like, don't just say that at like the first production meeting and then never let it have a seat at the table.
01:07:01
Speaker
And this is an example of having it be a seat at the table because like, can you imagine if the sets were were any different or were less than they are now? The costumes would be too loud.
01:07:13
Speaker
Yeah. The colors be insane. the color The colors would be insane if this was all like plywood you know or like see-through, like just plain plastic, you know?
01:07:25
Speaker
So it's like all of the design holds weight. And when it all works together, it is such a delight because it can fall to the back. Like there are people who are watching this and who are interested in the costume and interested in the design and like, Oh my God, look at that outfit. Look at this. But they're not holding onto that the whole time. Right. They're watching the story because they can let go.
01:07:47
Speaker
But it's people like us who are like, Oh my God, look at all these facets of design working together so strongly. Like they're all so strong.
01:07:58
Speaker
They're not trying to disappear. They're all, and they're not competing. They're not competing. They're all working to support the same story. Harmony. Harmony.
01:08:09
Speaker
I know. i know. This is not like, I didn't intend this to be like a ah rant about like how we're not respected in our field, but you know what? I'm, We sometimes trip and we fall into it. Oops. oh no. like And it's not like, um you know, it's it's not like a reflection of anything that I'm like, like, it's a culmination of so many things that I've experienced in the past.
01:08:37
Speaker
um And like, but it's the same issue if you're like, in a boardroom. you know And you have ah a certain job and you're like in a meeting and you're supposed to be reporting out on like your part that you contribute or your department contributes and people just go, ah whatever, and skip over you.
01:08:59
Speaker
Yeah. You'd be fucking livid. And I'm not saying that like in production meetings that that normally happens, but it's like you will report out or you will be part of the conversation. and what you're saying goes in one ear and out the other because they're not necessarily listening all the time because they already have decided what they've decided.
01:09:16
Speaker
And even if you give all the information you possibly can, i cannot tell you how frustrating it is. Like if you've had your director with you or you've had different design team, it's usually not coming For me, from my experience, from the design team, usually it's coming from someone else.
01:09:31
Speaker
Yeah. Because you can bring your lighting designer. I've had some pretty hairy experiences with some other designers. I'm not going to I'm going to tell you, it's not not existing. It's just like from what I'm remembering in my head right now, it's not the scenario.
01:09:43
Speaker
Because you can have like a lighting designer where you go, hey, do you want to see some of the costumes that we've got on some dress forms? do you want to wheel them out and like light them up and just use them while you're setting lights? Go for it. Yeah. Yeah.
01:09:55
Speaker
Just make sure they come back into the studio before you lock up. You know, that kind of thing. That's collaboration. If you have your scenic designer who's like, I can't decide which blue I'm going to use for half the set because a lot of the costumes are also blue and I don't want, you know, the actors to disappear.
01:10:12
Speaker
Come on in. Let's see all the things that we pulled. And you can also take them out to the stage and like compare and contrast, you know, take pictures, do that stuff. That's collaboration.
01:10:23
Speaker
But then you have your a director come through and you're like, here are some things that we have for some of these characters. They're out on a dress form. Here are the renderings. Here are the research pictures. Here are the swatches.
01:10:36
Speaker
Here are the color palettes. Here's all of the information that you've been exposed to for months in every single production meeting, but you don't have all that information downloaded in your brain, which is fair. So I've preset it out for you on a board or it's on the table and it's like next to each dress form ah because you seem to have some questions. So let's walk through it. Let's walk through and let's talk about some stuff.
01:10:56
Speaker
You do that and then you make it to stage. You make it to dress rehearsal and they go, why is that there? We never talked about that.
01:11:06
Speaker
Or just like, o what if it was just something completely different that you never planned for, was never part of the conversation? In built show. in a built show ah love it when that happens.
01:11:20
Speaker
And it's like a fantastical character, like a dragon. and it's like... ah That's, you know, a part of your budget had to be allotted to that in order to fabricate it and like yeah make all this stuff or whatever.
01:11:35
Speaker
What if we just, and you're like, how about no? but yeah too late. How about i just oh you just need to be quiet right now? Yeah. No, no. It is what it is now. I'm so sorry. So it's, it is very, very frustrating and it makes you ask questions like, should I just become a builder? Should I just become a stitcher?
01:11:54
Speaker
Should I just, should I just become a lighting designer? yeah I mean, for real. And it's like, I have a friend, a very, very beloved friend who's a sound designer also meets,
01:12:08
Speaker
hell of a lot of shit through their career. Right. But I also will hear sometimes stuff and I'm like, you know what? In this moment, it is so nice that, that you just get to go in and out.
01:12:18
Speaker
Yes. You do your thing. Boom, boom, boom. Boom, boom, boom. Done. Like, you're getting the pushback that you're getting. Sure. You know, you're you're dealing with stuff. I'm not trying to, like, invalidate any of that.
01:12:31
Speaker
But it's just the different experience because it's a different thing where it's like, oh. That sounds nice. That sounds great. Like... Unfortunately, we care so much about the costumes. That's our curse.
01:12:46
Speaker
Our curse is that We care. and And we don't just care about the costumes. We care about the storytelling. we care that part. do about the storytelling. And that's why like we get frustrated if we're not brought into the collaborative conversation because we want to be part of the storytelling process. We very much want to support it. We want to do that. We want to work with the actors on that. Like it's a it's really rewarding. Like I know, we're you know, this is like a whole conversation about the times that it goes badly, but often it goes really well and it's super great. It does. And you know, it's it's a genuine part of many conversations where you focus on the worst stuff longer than you focus on the good stuff. But it's like, yeah when you have a show, and again, I'm going to pull it back to Barbie.
01:13:28
Speaker
This is such a perfect example of when it goes well. Oh my God. yeah And that's really what I'm carrying is that this is such a good example of when it goes well. when And I don't know about people's personal experiences during the production.
01:13:40
Speaker
But i from the result, I can tell what parts... were given And it's not about being given free license to do your thing. it is about, okay, we understand that this is capable of doing this. Here's the goal.
01:13:55
Speaker
This is the weight that you're going carry. You're going to carry that weight. We trust that. So now this part's carry this weight. This part's going carry this weight.
Success of 'Barbie' in Storytelling
01:14:02
Speaker
Let's all work on carrying all of that weight to get to the finish line.
01:14:07
Speaker
And then the finish line, you have this like fantastical piece. It's about... feminism and introducing that concept to some folks. And then you have like jokes and you have dream ballets and you have beach fights, beach offs and you have, you know, real world stuff.
01:14:25
Speaker
And like, and you have mojo dojo casa houses and you have, my God. um As we're like kind of coming to a close at the end, there were,
01:14:38
Speaker
some lines that like really stood out as being super hilarious and like so quick and throwaway. But there was one line that was really, really beautiful that really stuck out. And I'm sure that there are many others that would like stand out if on another rewatch. But, um, when Barbie says to her creator, essentially, um I want to do the imagining.
01:15:02
Speaker
I don't want to be the idea. the I thought that that's what we want. That's what we're talking about right now Exactly. And that's why I was like, I'm so glad that we're here because that hits so many things.
01:15:19
Speaker
It's like, it's just a beautiful way to distill a feeling. And so, I don't know, I guess everybody, all these listeners, um ah I'll leave you with that. But I do recommend this movie. um Yes, I was. Yes. Yeah, i i I was like, I'm so glad I was really like, i was gonna feel really Yeah.
01:15:45
Speaker
sad Not if not just like that you potentially like wouldn't like it, but that I'd made you watch another movie where you're like, I i wish I hadn't watched it. Which is always like, that's always valid.
01:16:00
Speaker
But yeah yeah, of course, of course. But I don't want to make you watch something that you ultimately are not going to vibe with. You know, like, I don't want that. I think that this is like, i mean, we've talked about it, we've hit it. I think that there's, I think that this served a very, very good purpose um functionally in the conversation about feminism.
01:16:18
Speaker
as an introduction to people who don't even want to engage with the idea engage with the idea ah all and pretend that there are no issues and pretend that everything's fine. and that like, you know,
01:16:33
Speaker
Like when it ah the the Barbenheimer of it all when it came out. I'm sorry, but this movie has more to say about humanity than Oppenheimer.
Cultural Impact and Societal Reflections
01:16:43
Speaker
And I stand by that. Well, I'm going to also say that this movie has more to say because we've we've heard what Oppenheimer had to say.
01:16:54
Speaker
yeah A million times. A million times. Oh, sir, so did you get put into a tough position and then you just did a bad thing and then you had to carry that forever? oh no. Okay.
01:17:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I don't... I really didn't agree at the time with the notion that, like, Barbie was fun, but Oppenheimer was important.
01:17:17
Speaker
Because I don't think... That it was like, I'm sorry, made technical achievements aside, like I don't, I honestly like don't really care about the technical achievements of Oppenheimer, not to dishar disregard the artists that made but like, it's just a biopic about someone who did one of the worst things in human history at the end of the day. and it's also faulted biopic that cleans up a lot of the shit that he did and the things they out there.
01:17:46
Speaker
So it's like, Come on. No. I know. And it's like, yes, like Barbie is, you know, the baby steps into the idea of feminism in like a very like movie made by a corporation about a different corporation.
01:18:04
Speaker
That's very, very capitalistic, but it at least like thought about that. Yeah. It is a try to acknowledge it. It did. It had a lot of those things going on. And so,
01:18:18
Speaker
i I definitely and rooting for it. And I really love that it exists in a canon of movies that exists in the world where it's like, okay, start here. And then we'll go here.
01:18:30
Speaker
And then we'll go here. Like it's not the end all be all. And that was what was annoying. yeah And I think like any movie that's going to engage with the concept of feminism that is going to be appealing to like younger women, I think is important because unfortunately, I think we're living in a situation where People have gotten really complacent about... oh that's... Yeah, we are living in This society. We're literally living in like the second half of Barbie right now, where
01:19:05
Speaker
like People don't um they don't recognize how fragile any progress that we've made is. And that it's literally being rewound in real time. And people are just like baffled and because they didn't understand that any of that could go away.
01:19:26
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like... Would that there were more Gosling Kens out there or Allen's. And there are some, there are quite a few, but it's like in the wider world to be like, oh, it doesn't have to be exactly how i envisioned it. But I understand that this is a response to something and it doesn't have to be threatening, but it can coexist with some of my needs too.
01:19:50
Speaker
We can have those two things exist. We can have something very serious that is is genuinely affecting people's lives in a bad way be talked about with some humor because that's what life is And I think it's a more effective messaging tool because it's very disarming to laugh and and enjoy and have a good time. And then like, hopefully, if you've never engaged with the idea of, you know, feminism as a concept before, maybe it just something about it, maybe we'll stick with you and you'll think about it later. It'll just like plant a seed.
01:20:25
Speaker
And if that's all it does, then that's a great deal to plant a seed to dig that little hole into that. really hard packed earth, let something grow. Great.
01:20:35
Speaker
Yeah. Mission accomplished. So thank you very much for suggesting this. It was a very fun watch. The costuming, hair, wardrobe, all the design teams just really knocked out of the park, out of the park, out of the
Conclusion of Season Three
01:20:47
Speaker
park.
01:20:47
Speaker
So. yeah Yeah. And I can't think of a better way to conclude this season talking about color and talking about big design because this was the most colorful and the most big design. most it was It was a perfect way to close this out.
01:21:03
Speaker
Yeah. Well, thank you for listening. Yeah. Thank you. we have We have no announcement of what's coming next because we haven't decided. We have not. And so... We're also trying to build where we're headed, like, as we go forward. So who knows? Yeah. Like, we're going to continue the podcast. That almost made it sound like it. yeah. we'll be back soon. We're going to be back soon. We're just going to take a break, take a beat, take a break. And we've got some gigs this summer. So we want to give some space to that. But we're also going to try you know, expand a little bit and see how that works. Yeah.
01:21:38
Speaker
Yay. Thank you for talking to me about movies, Melinda. Thank you for talking to me about movies. Well, this season.
01:21:49
Speaker
Good night. Bye, Barbie. Bye, Barbie.