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The Silver Chair- Time is Different in Narnia
25 Plays13 days ago
Alright, who remembers the British Narnia miniseries from the late 80's/early 90's?! Because we sure do. And they are so delightfully weird! Today we're delving into the Silver Chair which was quite memorable for both Melinda's and Ariel's childhood. Ditch your school uniform, head over to that castle, and follow that Marshwiggle!!
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098912/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_6_nm_2_in_0_q_silver%2520chair
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Focus
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
Special Episode: Discussing BBC's 'The Silver Chair'
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome. This is a slightly special episode of our show where we are actually going to be recording from the same location and the same mic because today we watched BBC, the BBC's version of the Chronicles of Narnia, but specifically the silver chair from 1990. And oh boy, this...
00:00:41
Speaker
and oh boy this To read the synopsis on IMDb, Eustace, along with a new companion named Jill Pole, is brought back to Narnia. The pair are told by Aslan that they must search for King Caspian's missing son, Prince Rillian.
00:00:57
Speaker
Do you think that that synopsis says everything that should be said? um I think so. I don't think there is anything else in the story except do this. Walk, walk, walk. Hear him.
00:01:10
Speaker
It really does feel like like a side-scrolling video game where it's like we just have to hit this bad guy. We did it. We got to get this one. Don't eat that. We did it. Yeah.
00:01:22
Speaker
Do you think that many of our listeners are going to be familiar with this movie slash TV miniseries? I wish
Nostalgia and Personal Connections to Narnia
00:01:32
Speaker
so.
00:01:33
Speaker
But like, unless we have um some listeners from overseas, which fingers crossed, knock, knock, hello. um I don't know. Because like I encountered... these VHS tapes in the 90s, even though this felt like this was filmed in like 1982, it was probably like 1989.
00:01:52
Speaker
eighty nine I think it said 1990 on the back of the DVD. It said 90, which is when it was released, but who knew if it was filmed like the year before or whatever. But it felt like it was a million years before. And I was probably watching this in like 96, 97. Yeah, me too. Year of Titanic and BBC's version of the Chronicles Narnia.
00:02:13
Speaker
So I don't know.
Fantasy Films Before 'The Lord of the Rings'
00:02:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah but we both saw it. Yeah. And like, I found these in the library. And I think our local video droid also had them at some point. So like, I would rent them for periods of time. And I would obsessively watch them. And the BBC only did four out of the seven books.
00:02:30
Speaker
But that's four massive books. like projects. How long was this? It was like moon two hours. Yeah, it's like six episodes you said, I think. like And each one was probably meant to be 30 minutes because on IMDb it says 30 minutes. It's not 30 minutes. It's a full length movie.
00:02:48
Speaker
Oh, that would be like three hours. It wasn't three hours. It wasn't three hours. well i I lost all sense of time and space watching it. really did. So maybe it was two and change. Two plus. Two plus. Yeah.
Understanding Narnia's Christian Themes
00:03:03
Speaker
Because we we were talking and and like in it. And there were many times when we actually like vocally responded. And it was very fun to watch it in the same space. But this, I'm sure that most of our listeners, if they've seen Chronicles of Narnia movie adaptations, um then they probably saw the ones from the...
00:03:23
Speaker
mid-2000s yeah which I saw the first one yeah not in theater later I think I saw the first one in theaters because okay I've maybe said this on the podcast definitely said it to you I went to Catholic school I was a Catholic as a child no longer so sorry if that's a surprise to anybody But like, I read these books, and I loved them. I cannot describe to too you how much I loved them.
00:03:50
Speaker
um But I did not see the religious correlation that had to be explained to me when I was in my early 20s. Somebody pointed out that this was...
00:04:03
Speaker
very much like Christian metaphor. and and then I was like, huh? Yeah, it is. It really is. And it's not quiet about it. Yeah.
Evolution of Fantasy in Media
00:04:12
Speaker
I never knew that. Although i was not raised religiously. yeah um I know this woman who is, um she's like in her seventies. She was raised super, super Catholic in Chicago as a little kid.
00:04:24
Speaker
And she referred to a friend in her neighborhood as a child, as a pagan baby, because they were the only non-Catholic people. person that she knew i choose to think of myself as a pagan baby legit mouth slap without one friend had to cover back in shock That those words would come unironically out of someone's mouth.
00:04:52
Speaker
It's insane. ah And like, I mean, like, she it was so funny when she said that because she obviously now is understands that that's like ridiculous.
00:05:03
Speaker
But it was like not ridiculous when she was seven. No, no. the world that is created and shaped for you, you really believe and you don't question, you don't poke, you know, whatever. And so it's like, I just, I just took these books as the fantasies that they were. And like, i racism, sexism, misogyny of it all aside.
00:05:24
Speaker
Well, I mean, we always have to. yes Yes. Caveats of it all.
BBC's Creature Costumes: Love and Critique
00:05:28
Speaker
um I did enjoy these books when I was a kid because I was a voracious reader. And then when I got to see on screen fantasy, like we've talked about this before, that there just was not fantasy or sci-fi available when we were kids.
00:05:42
Speaker
More so sci-fi. But like fantasy was not what it is now until The Fellowship of the Rings came out, when people could prove and justify a giant budget. Yeah. Which is what you need to create fantasies like this, because you have to costume a lot of bodies. You have to do a lot of set dressing. You have to do a lot of different things. You don't necessarily need a shit ton of...
00:06:04
Speaker
like visual effects right but you do need wherever the budget is going you need creatures you need transformation you need locations that look like not the street yeah you have to make sure there's no airplanes flying over where you're filming like there's so many things that go in and you've got to have craft services so you can feed people I mean, come on, the bagels. And so it's just like, this was my first big fantasy.
00:06:32
Speaker
And this was overwhelmingly amazing and really discomforting because there's an uncanny valley in these things. With their creature costume. Yeah, this movie was disturbing to me in a very particular way. Although I feel like this um entire podcast has just been me re-examining why certain things that I watched as a kid really scared me and certain other things like Jurassic Park did not. But like...
00:07:08
Speaker
The image at the end of this movie really disturbed me as a little kid. And I think that that's very fair because there was a very distinct discomfort for me, like in my memories of this one, because this, okay.
00:07:23
Speaker
I recommend that anybody who wants to see these goes out and sees them because these are full body creature costumes in a way that we don't make them anymore, where there's like a hole for the face of the actor or so eyes of the actor. And there is or is not makeup to make up the difference. you know what I mean? Like it is very hit or miss.
00:07:42
Speaker
This absolutely determined what my expectations were for a TV movie and nothing has ever lived up to it since. But yeah, These, this, oh my God, there's, there's a fever dream aspect to all of them.
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah. But sometimes, especially when you're watching it as a kid, which, which we did was like, you can get into it to a certain point to not just be carried by the fever dream, but
Character Introduction: Eustace and Jill
00:08:08
Speaker
the silver chair is the most fever dream ah that And the acting really... They were playing to the back of the house. It brings you there. these are... Like Tom Baker is in this as Puddle Glum the Marsh Wiggle and that he is of... You just said Puddle Glum the Marsh Wiggle so casually. Like that's a normal thing that everyone... You don't talk about Marsh Wiggles?
00:08:36
Speaker
That's on you, friend. Yeah.
00:08:40
Speaker
He's, I mean, for anyone who maybe has never seen this, he's like a swamp wizard. Yes. Who's mostly human, quite. bit frog. Yeah. A little bit frog. He's got, we both like viscerally reacted to this, but first of all, he has this like great makeup, I think, on his face.
00:08:58
Speaker
And again, we've talked about this before. I think we talked about it very heavily with Excalibur, that episode, but this feels so descendant of 70s theater. Yeah. seventy s stage, because like,
00:09:09
Speaker
Just looking at the fabrics and some of the choices and like the color palettes and the makeup, the makeup feels very theatrical in film. You can see so much of the actor's face. So you don't really have to worry about covering their face as much, but in this one, the way that they put this Marsh wiggle makeup on Tom Baker as puddle glum, the swamp wizard, man, frog
Impact of Jill's Costume on Childhood
00:09:31
Speaker
man.
00:09:32
Speaker
um Is that they just go like on the high part of his cheekbones and then like up around his temple. And then it's very concentrated on his hands. Yeah. And it's green. It's like green and yellow. Viney, scaly. It's like geometric even. Yeah. Yeah, it's abstract and geometric.
00:09:48
Speaker
And so it feels organic, but not like Art Nouveau organic. And then his hands have latex webbing in between his fingers. And they do some real close-ups and he really shoves his hand in front them. that I lied a couple of times to just like really make that latex wiggle. And we're both doing it right now.
00:10:09
Speaker
That's the sound. Yeah. And both of us were like, well, and it's like, I mean, like props to whoever did the latex because it's like slightly translucent. It's painted green. it looks super gross in a great way. Right. Like it just, it makes him feel like he crawled out of the marshes. It ties together his character into that little world as a marsh. We go very, very well.
00:10:32
Speaker
But there's just this, this overall fever dream situation that happens with this one, because we go we are in Narnia, but we are in the, not even in the middle of a story. I think this might be the second to last in the series.
00:10:49
Speaker
So there, we're not having like heavy introduction. There's a character who's leading us through this Eustace, um who is coming back after Prince Caspian. No, the voyage of the Dawn Treader. Yeah.
00:11:01
Speaker
i I don't remember. I'm at a loss here. I did not read. I read some of the books. I didn't read them all. And I don't think I even read them in order. he was He was at least in one or two previous, but he knew Prince Caspian, who is now an old man. So this is showing to us that time has changed.
00:11:17
Speaker
And he's coming back to Narnia because Aslan... The lion animatronic. Pulled him out of his English boarding school with Jill Pohl. poor Jill Pohl.
00:11:30
Speaker
I feel like Jill Pohl is a testament to the fact that if kids don't like you, they will find something to make fun of you for, even if it's nothing at all. Just literally your last name. They're like, your last name's stupid. oh And like, okay.
00:11:44
Speaker
Yeah. Said this out loud when the movie started, but Jill Pohl walked so Hermione Granger could run. J.K. Rowling can go suck on some nails, steel nails and steel wool and have a great meal with that. yeah But that character was a character that we were exposed to when we were growing up. And the the performance of Emma Watson as Hermione Granger is specifically what I'm pointing at.
00:12:06
Speaker
The breathy is so Jill Pohl in this that it was like, is this just what British children are? I think so. I mean, I don't have that many touch points. Like middle class British
Cultural Implications of Creature Costumes
00:12:18
Speaker
children is just what they are. They're just haughty and breathless.
00:12:22
Speaker
so she and Eustace are at the same school and they're both avoiding bullies and at the same time are in the same place. And Aslan is like, chata just ah heaven, whatever it is.
00:12:35
Speaker
But Jill pole is they're both in their school uniforms and Eustace is dressed as if he's about to go play tennis. Would you say? yeah He's in a khaki dream. ah khaki dream.
00:12:47
Speaker
with a sweater vest. There are some really lovely cable sweaters on these kids. They're intense. There's, um, I feel like some of the boys, is it, is it like a lacrosse, like a cricket?
00:12:59
Speaker
It's cricket. It's all. I had to talk it out. It's cricket whites. Yeah. Yeah. I had to say it to understand, even though I should know.
00:13:10
Speaker
lacrosse is also super North American. I know. I was like, it can't be lacrosse. That's what kids in Massachusetts play. And so it... Where I'm headed with this specific mention of these introductory costumes
Fantasy Tropes and Peculiar Characters
00:13:25
Speaker
is that Jill is wearing a specific type of short that's like a culotte skort. Not even a skort because the front isn't disguising itself as a skirt. Just very full and pleated. Culottes.
00:13:38
Speaker
100%. And if you didn't go to school... In the 90s, did you know culottes? Did you encounter this kind of fabric and fit? Did you know this struggle? Because some people have very fond memories of culottes and really want them. That's me. Yeah.
00:13:53
Speaker
We are divided here. I, yeah I, I, I. Like, I would make and wear culottes now. I think that you could rock those, and I love that for you. Thank you. i was not choosing culottes. They were being chosen for me.
00:14:09
Speaker
and I hated their guts and basically there's like a specific type of pant that we had to wear to private school um which because I went to private school and it was khaki shorts khaki pants and they were culotte-esque because of the wideness of the legs but they also had those pleats that are very late eighty s early 90s that just carried through private schools for a very long time because nobody wanted to change anything and I just was like this just feels this is in school. It was also just like
The Quest to Find Prince Rillian
00:14:42
Speaker
a very kind of odd monochrome yeah that both of them were wearing because like he was in like khakihackki khaki khaki khaki and she was in grey on grey a sort of
00:14:54
Speaker
very light, like teal Oxford-y. She had a teal Oxford and then he had maybe a little bit of white, but he had something that was a little bit off and like very, yeah. But it was like gray sweater and gray culottes that were obviously different fabrics because one was like a woven wool and the other one's like sweater knit yeah they were the egg exact same shade of gray yeah and it was just like oh very deliberate school uniform yeah and it just like it places you and this is how this is where they are they're very not glad to be here at this boarding school they're not having a great time and they're wearing these clothes that are so just drab and
00:15:38
Speaker
sad And then they're plucked out by this real sassy and animatronic lion who moves his mouth sometimes and ah kind of squints so wince a little bit, never fully closes his eyes yeah and then has no time for Jill Pol's shit.
00:15:55
Speaker
ah No, where should he? From moment one. He's like, you're fucking around. So I plucked your little friend out, which by the way, these visual effects are incredible because it's like, it's like people are being lifted by popsicle sticks and then pulled away.
00:16:07
Speaker
There's a lot of like intense, I think rotoscoping. Oh yeah. That is sometimes done nice and clean and sometimes so very not not as much.
00:16:19
Speaker
Yeah. Like real halos around people. There's one later on in the movie where we see Father Time in the Underdark, which is underworld. And ah Father Time's asleep. And he has this halo around him that part of it is intentional and part of it is just this it's not scrubbed.
00:16:34
Speaker
And there's a part of it that's like shivering. Yeah. So much so that we'll just point it at it. Like at the screen. What's that? didn't even have to like, we knew what, we knew what it was, but it's just like, put a, put a pin in that. don't even need to vocalize this. I'm just going to point.
00:16:52
Speaker
get that shit But I love their clothes when they transform, because of course they have to transform and change clothes to like fit in into the sort of Narnia court yes that they're in.
00:17:05
Speaker
and I, I, love love their clothes it it is exact I realize how deeply it must have imprinted on me because Jill's outfit this like all of it uh I wanted that for Ren Faire I wanted that for my life I wanted that all the time the perfect swoopy skirt that you're not going to trip on because it's hemmed to the right length on a kid and like the the chemise blouse situation so billowy and white and then like the the bodice that's like made out of this
Medieval Influences in Costume Design
00:17:40
Speaker
beautiful like a tapestry fabric so beautiful and her color palette and eustace's are both like these reds and oranges like crimson
00:17:50
Speaker
And with like stark whites against those, but they're just like so satisfying to look at. And they just look like the perfect costume to like suit up as a kid and just be like, I'm going to be this Halloween fantasy for the rest of my life.
00:18:03
Speaker
And boy, did I try like so Yeah. I mean, yeah, like all of the court costumes are just these sort of lovely, i would say Renaissance fair yeah is like the touch point because it's sort of blends a few different influences and mostly Renaissance, but like there's a little medieval hanging for certain people. it's very interesting. And like, sometimes you're noticing that because of lengths of things. Yeah.
00:18:32
Speaker
Really? And like, But just like the the details of like the laced sleeves and like, well I love it. The velvets, the heaviness. And you decided partway through the movie that the dominant influence or no, that was that's later. That's later. a specific place. That's later. And I think we figured out that the.
00:18:53
Speaker
ah Caspian castle was filmed at Leeds castle in England. So it's like beautiful storybook with like the water around it. Like it looks like all of the ideas that we had in our heads of what a medieval castle, the moat kind of thing.
00:19:14
Speaker
There's stones, there's horses, there's hedgehogs and all that. And like a little rabbit guy. What I love is that they have these people in these animal costumes just walking around because we are deep in the storytelling. We don't need to reestablish that there are talking animals. Yes.
00:19:31
Speaker
Like we we just know it. But the hedgehog costume I love and the actor who's wearing it like shivers a little bit to make all the quills shiver. And then there's this rabbit that's just like walking off in the distance in one scene at Caspian's Castle.
00:19:45
Speaker
And that rabbit has like ah the most... so like haunchy haunches in the world. It's just like chef kiss. Okay. Here's a question for you yes that as the resident expert on this series, but also it's something that I find is repeated in different ah stories, different properties.
00:20:09
Speaker
What is the deal with yeah
00:20:14
Speaker
what's the deal? ah When you have a magical world with magical animals that can talk and interact and horses and people riding horses,
00:20:26
Speaker
i i wish i could Okay. Now I haven't read... Glasses had to go up for this one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scholarly. I haven't read The Chronicles of Narnia since I was a preteen or early teen. So like these details are very, very fuzzy.
00:20:43
Speaker
But I think that C.S. Lewis actually tried to answer this. Where... um in the the storytelling of the world that like the ability to talk was taken from some of them. Okay. And so like, so it's like wicked.
00:20:57
Speaker
It's like wicked. Yeah. Where it's like a regressive thing where, and so I don't remember exactly how that happened. plays out here but there is something like that in the world where there are some who just haven't i think that maybe we even like learn about that in the last book it's also like a mickey pluto mickey like pluto uh goofy problem yeah like goofy and pluto both dogs very different very very different And like in between Scooby Doo.
00:21:27
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Some language. We need like an evolutionary chart. It starts with the horses in this movie and ends with.
00:21:38
Speaker
um Let's talk about horses. And ends with. Oh God. Powerline. Yeah. The goofy movie. Who is Michael Jackson slash Prince. Yeah. Let's take this opportunity to talk about horses. guess Okay. Okay.
00:21:52
Speaker
More specifically centaurs. There is one actor and one centaur costume that I think I saw. And this actor is playing a ah white horse centaur. We see him a couple times. And I think that like two times that we see him, he's wearing like a pant situation that has a horse built onto the pack. Right. That's maybe on wheels, but he's always stationary in those two. Cause in he's like in front of the castle in this like Aslan narrated yeah thought bubble. and It's like how something. And so he's never moving there. And then the second, the third time that we see him,
00:22:34
Speaker
Same deal, but filmed from the left instead of the front. And so like the left up to the front. But we never see like full leg. We just see maybe some front. And then the middle time, the second time we're seeing this like CG...
00:22:49
Speaker
like pre-cg pre-cg so like totally edited because airbrushed the the human portion is so divorced from the horse body it's just two actors riding on a horse and then they yeah like airbrushed these two overlapped things and the actor who's playing the human half of the centaur is just like ah he looks like poseidon poseidon hundred percent but poseidon who's like no the mechanics of a myrtle or a horse body are not No, they're not clocking here. And it was just like so phenomenally joyful. am you looking what
00:23:27
Speaker
Oh my God. and so like we, we see so many different talking animals, which are just people in these animal suits. And um one that we spend time with is work Davis as Glimm feather. And like, we both, I think agree on just loving this costume yeah because it is so beautifully made yeah and like unfortunately i hope that it was like ethical ethically made yeah because we're both pretty damn sure that these are real feathers i'm 100 sure and it's like a full
00:24:06
Speaker
body human size costume of an owl made completely covered in real animal feathers in the same colors and so like maybe these are painted and I don't know I doubt it because like this is very it looks very natural and like the the one ringer here though is that the the headpiece everything fits really well beautiful the architecture of the wings like he uses them as like arms pointing and doing all this crazy
Nostalgia and Production Techniques
00:24:37
Speaker
stuff. But like the architecture of it all isn't like janky. Yeah.
00:24:42
Speaker
Except for eyes. The eyes. Are just cutouts. And there's no makeup on Warwick Davis's face. Nothing. To try to blend.
00:24:55
Speaker
At all. And it's like, I mean, if you think like a mascot costume, normally they would have something over the eye hole that you could see through.
00:25:08
Speaker
And maybe it's painted or something. And I'm sure for film, you could do something more like delicate and finely constructed than like, you know, a mascot at a football game. But To just have it just be Warwick Davis's eyes was jarring. It just becomes a man stuck in an owl.
00:25:30
Speaker
He had to dig the eyes out so that he could see out and say, help. That's what it becomes in my mind. And maybe that's the sign that you and I could not find Narnia because we were Because I don't remember that as a kid. nope That's not what scared me. The one, okay, the one thing that I did clock in um The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe as a kid, because I still remember it, are the beavers.
00:25:53
Speaker
Oh. That, like, the kids that, they like, take them in, but are like, quick, hide, you know, all that stuff. Those beavers, those costumes, insane. Because there's there's no attempt to even have just the the eyes be the only part that reveals the face. It's the whole face. Oh, no. And then the rest of the body and the hands of think we've talked about that.
00:26:17
Speaker
because i think you and my husband have a similar discomfort, which is animals with human faces. It's not right. I can deal with a human with an animal face. That is no problem.
00:26:28
Speaker
Human with animal face. Easy. Animal with human face. No.
00:26:37
Speaker
I totally get it. But it's one of my deepest pleasures.
00:26:42
Speaker
Because it's such a specific dislike. And to put words to it. And just be like absolutely not. I love it so much. I never like thought that much about Specifically. Until you mentioned it. And I was like yeah that is awful. Why does that exist? yeah it's Just absolutely not.
Puddle Glum's Costume Analysis
00:27:00
Speaker
It's so real. And these movies really put it to the test. So just warning. If you're going to watch these. It's going to get you at some point.
00:27:12
Speaker
Really is going to. um There's so few things that like really I remembered about this. But um the first thing that I was like, oh, this is like a snapshot in my memory was the stone giants. Which we get to like, we they like go to the court. They're like, we got to do what Aslan said for...
00:27:37
Speaker
reasons. And then they go on a Lord of the Rings walking tour of Narnia. They meet puddle glum and then they're with him two kids and that's when they encounter the stone giants yeah they're like on their way so what's happening plot wise let's dig deep oh yeah oh right just the premise of the journey to the silver chair if you will is that uh prince caspian literally the moment that eustace and jill arrive after having jill having been lectured by aslan about like i brought you here
00:28:12
Speaker
to to fix this thing that has gone wrong. And he's like, um Prince Caspian's son was, you know, this is what happened. His mother died, was bitten by a snake. He he disappeared one day.
00:28:23
Speaker
Yeah, we all know. Tale as old as time. Tale as old as time. ah We'll talk about Prince Rillion in a second. That's Prince Caspian's son. We have to talk about him specifically. mean, he's important.
00:28:35
Speaker
Oh boy. um And don't you know it? But... So they go to the Prince Caspian's castle. The second they get there, Caspian's out. He's on a ship. And so they see him sailing away and they're like, ah, dang it.
00:28:48
Speaker
and They constantly throughout the whole thing, just accuse each other of doing shit wrong. And it's like, you are in a magical, mystical land. Like a lion gave you a to-do list.
00:28:59
Speaker
And like he just told it to you one time. Yeah. And he was like, you better remember. Which I was like, I, it's, Yeah, I have so many questions that probably the book would maybe get into more about like, I don't know.
00:29:14
Speaker
I don't know why these kids. Maybe, maybe not. I mean, I guess it's not really important, but um it's just like, it's just fully ah holy cannoli. And so like they're on this journey to go find Prince Caspian's son because Prince Caspian was Eustace's friend when Eustace was there a couple months ago.
00:29:31
Speaker
But time travels differently in Narnia. Yeah. and our world, if you will. And Prince Caspian is an old man who's on his way out and his son has been gone for years. And so they are on this, yeah, Lord the Rings-esque journey and Puddleglum is basically Gollum.
00:29:48
Speaker
ah He's nicer. He's nicer.
Practical Effects vs CGI in Creature Design
00:29:51
Speaker
And he's he's like Smeagol. There you go. He's Smeagol. Yeah. But he's like very fatalistic. Nihilistic. He's like, everything's going to be ruined. We're going to die.
00:30:00
Speaker
That is true. At the first sign of trouble, he's always just like, well, pack it in. We're dead. It's over. fortunately we have these like stiff upper lip stiff upper lip british kids who've been married for 65 years and despise each other and have no respect for time or pacing they're like you dumb idiot like every time they do anything they're just like you don't even know how to do this no just like we missed the sign and they're like yeah you're 11 oh god i do love when ah multiple times i think when eustace claps back and he's like as i told you about this i wasn't even there and she's just like which i'm like that is the kind of shirking of responsibility that i recognize oh yeah i see it in the mirror
00:30:52
Speaker
Okay, so Prince Rillion. Yeah, who's that? So Prince Rillion, Prince Caspian's son, is this shampoo commercial. ah Just this super conditioned yeah herbal essences model whose makeup is so pretty.
00:31:11
Speaker
oh it's insane. It's ridiculous. Jill could never. it Could never. And he's got like just this like slinky volume in his hair and he's just he's like perfect chestnut brow. It's ridiculous. And he's got like this deep, deep neckline on everything because of the era of the clothing. But like...
00:31:29
Speaker
He is who we are searching for. And he's been taken by the green witch who, if you know who she is, good for you. wow wow But she's like basically the green witch in this.
00:31:41
Speaker
Jod is. And um she... She saw a pretty boy and she decided to yoink him because she has just steal him from, yeah take him underground and keep him captive.
00:31:56
Speaker
But this actress who is playing the green witch has the most, you said made Marion. Yeah. She's this like seventies earth mother, which with like eighties, like sparkles happening. It's just such a mishmash of ideas. It's like so much hair, the Stevie Nicks of it all. Like,
00:32:15
Speaker
Just oodles and oodles of like red cascading curls. Oh my god Insane. And just like the most expressive face. And she on her gown has these like coiled, it's a cloak. She has a cloak that we see later. yeah At first we see her in a gown because we don't want any foreshadowing that she might be related to a certain snake that like killed Prince William's mother. Well, what?
00:32:41
Speaker
But she has the the peaked sleeves. Yeah, pointed sleeves. oh the way like there are just certain things you know like it's it's just so funny to me because you know i had no like concept of being a costume designer when I was a kid I didn't even know that was a job me neither but there are certain things where I'm just like why as like a nine-year-old would I have like died for sleeves that came to like a point on the top of my hand with a loop that went around my middle finger like I would have sold my soul to the devil for that costume many of us would and it's like the Ren Faire I think was the only Ren Faire and Halloween were the only
00:33:21
Speaker
Out times and outlets that we had for this like unnamed impulse to like dress uniquely. And this really, really imprinted on me heavy because this is so 80s as medieval. And it's like we've talked briefly about like 60s as medieval. We haven't covered that yet.
00:33:38
Speaker
But like 60s, 70s, all did their version of medieval and each one really ratcheted up in different ways. And this one included like sparkles. Like this one, the sequins, the fake jewels.
Use of Puppets and Practical Effects
00:33:52
Speaker
The LeMay. Oh my God. And so was just like, yes, catch the light. Love it. Sorry, I'm sharp shouting into the mic about it. Sparkle and shine. And it's like, it's just, it's fantastic because, you know, obviously those textiles are did not exist no in the sort of like 14, 15, 16 hundreds that we're pulling things from. So when we first see the green witch, this is jumping through the movie, right? that We first see the green witch in this like flashback from Aslan.
00:34:23
Speaker
We just see her in the gown, pointed sleeves, hair, made Marian of it all. And then we see her in the middle of the Lord of the Rings trek where the kids in Puddleglum are on their way somewhere and she sends them astray Yeah. And um but also kind of to the right place. Yeah. And she is now wearing a cloak and her hair is like in her mouth because the wind is blowing and there's nobody there to like pin or spray this back. if They're just like on a horror filming. Don't worry about it.
00:34:52
Speaker
And she's next to, spoiler alert, Prince Rillian, who has... Oh my... What? Huh? He's like... Looking like and the knight off a chessboard. oh He's also looking like the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Absolutely. Because the shape of that helmet is that tin can situation. Certainly parts of it are made from like ah foam pipe insulation just carved and painted in these like like when you think of like biblically described angels that have like the hoops and the eyes and all that stuff there's like something happening there yeah like but even the horse has like this black armor that's crazy oh it's crazy looking this armor is phenomenal it's like dragon wing right dragon wing just like keeps inspiring it it's just so amazing like
00:35:39
Speaker
silent this man's silent no clinking even because whatever he's wearing not metal not metal straight up like vacu-formed plastic and so it's just like we're not even hearing the rustling of that the wind is too loud and so what i love is that the green witch has this like just the sequence and all we see really is like part of her torso and like the right sleeve because the wig is doing a lot of business There's a horse head in a way. And there's a horse head. That horse is just taking up too much space. Oh my God.
00:36:11
Speaker
And then the next time we see the green witch is when the children toward the end of the movie have made it into the under dark because where the witch has sent them when they meet is to a giant's castle, which we'll get to Which I'm like, those giants were going to eat those kids. Rude. Yeah.
00:36:28
Speaker
She sent them there knowing they got a cookbook that's like how to make delicious meat pies out of children. She was like, let me get those kids out of my way. And whatever, what is Puddleglum? Marsh Wiggle. Marsh Wiggle. They got a separate recipe for him. Which let's talk about that in a second.
00:36:44
Speaker
ah but Because that is so something that's worth talking about. But um never want to be caught by giants with Marsh Wiggle Puddleglum because he's going to give away where you're at. i i mean In a yeah second. Just,
00:36:57
Speaker
ah But um when we reach the resolution with the Green Witch and we find out that she is the one who has taken Prince Rillian captive and like turned him into his captive form.
00:37:11
Speaker
She is still wearing the same stuff, but on her cloak is the detail that I forgot, which is the snakes that are like on her torso, on her bust. Yeah. And it's just like this silvery snake coil detail, like double snake situation.
00:37:24
Speaker
And then she has this, another Escoffion. There are like two very fancy Escoffions that we see in this. Yeah. These are like ah the medieval, like imagine medieval princess headpiece. Yeah. Like the horn kind situation. Like the horn thing or like the big, like stuffed kind of like tubes on the side of your head. I think.
00:37:46
Speaker
and like a veil hanging down people they're like yeah two styles basically and we see each of these styles and so this one is the one that like curls around the forehead and around the back and it has a veil that goes down her back and her her whole costume is so 80s does medieval because none of this fabric existed this is all it's all like
Character Dynamics and Societal Roles
00:38:07
Speaker
bright green like polyester chiffon oh my god so much polyester put a pin in her sleeves but the veil coming off of the escoffion has like ivy leaves that are in different green it's almost like velvet like burnout but it's like but so and like i've seen that and it's like um
00:38:28
Speaker
I don't know how they do it, but I've seen that type of fabric where it's like a sheer like chiffon. And then there's certain parts where there's like woven in a thicker fiber to create like the leaf and then like cut.
00:38:40
Speaker
I don't know how they make it, but I know I've seen it. I've definitely seen it too. And it is so theatrical. yeah My God. And it like catches the light under there because the lighting in the underdark is pretty great.
00:38:51
Speaker
But like it's two different shapes. greens. Yeah. And so it's really, really nice. And she's got like different tones of green all over her, but her sleeves are this like stretch knit kind situation where it's like, can't even describe fabric correctly right now, but there's like spirals of black sequin. Yeah. And so you can see her skin through parts of it. And then the spirals of the black sequin. And then she has all these different greens elsewhere.
00:39:17
Speaker
it's chef kiss. Yeah. Like, Oh my God. There's so many evil temp layers. Oh, it's so great. And it's so fun to watch it move around. And she is so camp as hell. Cause she is.
00:39:30
Speaker
You made me rewind that moment. Okay. So. Just to spoiler alert again, when ah Prince Rillian is like brought back to himself, because just so you know, he is the winter soldier of this movie. He is the silver soldier.
00:39:43
Speaker
And um the silver chair is his winter soldier chair that like wipes his memories and turns him into this kind of like crazy. frat brother and um and so like when he becomes prince brilliant again which is a transformation that we will get to because that one is oh so good great costume moment but he's like let's get out of here and he runs way faster than the kids in puddle glum which is like okay calm down son um but they get to the door he whips it open and she just like moonwalks like slides from the left to the right
00:40:17
Speaker
She moves horizontally yes without moving at all vertically yes is the only way can describe it. doorway where she should be moving from the back to the front. You know how when you walk, your feet lift up at of yeah off the floor? You should be moving forward. Your hips should be moving so that you have She's like on a track and she just, and her face is just what?
00:40:40
Speaker
And it's just like, what, what, who opens the door already knowing how you're supposed to be responding. it so She just like, it's like she so sock, sock slides. Oh my God. This doorway. Risky business her way into that scene.
00:40:58
Speaker
And it's just like, there are a couple of actors here who feel very, very, it's like the transition between like, um, silent movies and talkies where it feels like the transition between stage and film because it's just like Shakespearean actors who and it's like you don't have to project that much the camera's right there it's right inside of your esophagus like we can calm down A little bit.
00:41:20
Speaker
Never change, but at the same time. but I mean, it's perfect. Oh, so perfect, but so swinging for some big fences. So, okay. So Prince Aurelian's journey is that we first see him in the same ah thought bubble Aslan talking about the past thing where we see her as like Maid Marian hiding behind a tree.
Transformation Scenes and Practical Effects
00:41:42
Speaker
And um he is in this very medieval doublet situation. and He has his hair. He doesn't have bangs, does he? No. No bangs.
00:41:52
Speaker
No berries and cream bangs. He might have a couple face framing pieces. But yeah, in my head, it like became straight blunt bangs and then the long hair.
00:42:03
Speaker
So he's got like his own brunette Fabio situation happening and he's got, I wanted to say that he had, cause he might have some sort of support behind his doublet or he just like might have a little bum roll or he might have, you know, some junk in that trunk.
00:42:20
Speaker
His actor is just being given all the craziest things to do. And he is also swinging for the fences. yeah But I will never get over how pretty they made him. Like he's got so much. He's like glowing makeup. And he's like dewy every time we see him. Except because we don't see him from this this thought bubble thing of like, that's your target. You've got to go save him.
00:42:42
Speaker
Until we find out that the Black Knight, whose face we don't see, turns out to be this man that the children encounter in the Underdark, the Underkingdom, that they they get to after the giant's castle. Cave World.
00:42:55
Speaker
Cave World. Cave World. We'll talk about Prince Rillian and then go the rest of Cave World. Yeah, we gotta talk about the Cave Guys. Because those costumes insane.
00:43:06
Speaker
So Prince Rillian, they go down to this Underworld and there's this man there who has Crazy prosthetic beard. But it doesn't look so crazy right now.
00:43:17
Speaker
But it's very obviously fake. Yeah, it's a fake beard. it's a it's um It's built on a lace. Yes. We will say. It is lace. and But it's quite thick in uniform. It's very thick and like...
00:43:29
Speaker
it's like brawny man yeah it's like rough and so we're being given this and it's a good choice because he has at this point he's wearing this like slashed number yeah it's got this black velvet with like white or like silvery trim and like very white like shirt and and it all works really well beautiful again it's very like shakespearean stage and the way he performs is very shakespearean Like it's quite um Hamlet. hey Very Hamlet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he has this throwback to Excalibur and Chromedone.
00:44:02
Speaker
He's got this skullcap mask. Yeah. That is, I think I said it's like a chastity belt, but for his head. Yes. Because over his cheekbones up to the crest of his nose, there's these like, again, dragon. Yeah. And it's almost like cage. It's like open in between like veins. And it's really, really pretty like the design of it is great and then the top of it is like if you like it's like got like ridges imagine like sculpting with your fingers yeah it's got like these very smooth ridges but then you pointed out that it's got perforation it's perfect it looks like a salt shaker yeah
00:44:37
Speaker
And there's a scene where he's sitting at the
Final Thoughts on Production Design
00:44:39
Speaker
end of the table and he's chewing the scenery. And in front of him, the set dressing on the table is all silver stuff. So he just looks but very like a very pissed off salt shaker. There's like literally like a dragon candle holder on the table. And so way the dragon of it all is very, very... get it.
00:44:55
Speaker
I assume that the perforated thing is to let steam out of his head. i would hope so. Because... At the end, after we see him locked tight to this silver chair, which is his punishment chair. one arm, whatever. Yeah, the one arm that he breaks loose and is like, I can't free myself. It's just like, okay, magic is involved.
00:45:17
Speaker
Magic is involved. Magic is involved. That chair scared me as a kid. That one, land that when you saw that shot. Yeah. Yeah. yeah It's this crazy... it's It's so fascinating. Like, the whole... um There's like multiple kind of castle situations and they're all different. This one is very gothic, yes which then becomes like Art Nouveau inspiration later in time.
00:45:46
Speaker
So like the chair itself looks very like Art Nouveau it's got this like evil magic glow and it's just this like spindly creepy chair and it's the only thing in this room except for this like giant painting artwork behind it and then like this room is clearly like a hallway like a wine cellar like a dungeon but Because in between these like columns, they have built up these false gates that like you can actually see behind because of the way that they're cut in.
00:46:19
Speaker
But they are supposed to be like stained glass. yeah But the lights that are shining through are like dance club lights, kind of. And so the lighting is very interesting in here. And then the only thing in this space is this chair. yeah So it like really holds weight. Creepy torture chair. And it is very eighty s silver there's there's just a very specific silver that i can't explain and it's like almost white yes it's so silver and it's so like shiny it's not but it's not chrome no it is so different than that yeah but you know what it's like the silver of um
00:46:59
Speaker
the the fancy necklace that arwen wears in lord of the rings where it's like the purity of the metal is so intense that it like glows from the inside out that's what it is that's what it is nail bit well done snaps to you snakes to you all of them so this this man this moment i deeply enjoyed is when he frees him, well, they free him from the chair. yeah And then he stands up and crunches this vacuformed helmet, because that's what it is. It's totally vacuformed plastic. yeah And you can hear it because they don't foley over it. The sound that we're hearing of him breaking it and crunching it off of his head into many pieces is the sound of hardened plastic just...
00:47:47
Speaker
And it's really satisfying. Yeah. and Because like as a kid, it looks like metal to you. oh yeah Like it's beautifully painted and made to look like metal. ah But obviously we know it's not. But so it's like this great like magic moment that you can do practically. yeah Where you're taking something that should be unbreakable and you're like.
00:48:06
Speaker
Crunch. And it's just like, yes. And especially when you're kid watching it, you're like, you get it. But then his glorious Fabio hair. Yeah.
00:48:18
Speaker
Slithers out of this helmet and just um around his shoulders. And all of a sudden that fake beard on that beautiful lace looks bonk hairs because they are two different shades number one which fair people's beards do come out different than their head hair but they're also two completely wildly different textures which we kind of had to keep like explaining away because it's it's it's intense and like yeah people's facial hair can be different
00:48:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's a thing that happens. But like in that moment, he really did become like White Jesus from a passion play. And White Jesus, who clearly this lace is like glued around his lips, so it's altering how his lips work.
00:49:05
Speaker
And that worked better when his face was constrained by a mask. And now that it's free, we're really, really noticing that he's got a fake wig on. I mean, like this this beard wig. but it is also like But his hair is also a wig. Yeah. Oh my god.
00:49:18
Speaker
it's a good one though and if that shit was natural and he rocked up and they were like you Prince Rillian right now were born this way do you want me to cut my hair they're like no but it's like they take off that helmet and he has a blowout just waiting underneath it's insane it's unfair it is rude nothing no sweat those perforated holes that's why exactly you've It's like, you know, say what you will about the evil green witch, but she had ah enough heart to let his hair stay beautiful and luscious. And apparently there's enough moisture down there in those caverns to keep that stuff hydrated and like conditioned. So maybe there's a deep conditioning mask that we just don't know about. And maybe the perforations prevent mineral buildup inside. There you go We figured it out.
00:50:01
Speaker
Down in a cave, got lot of mineral
Timelessness of Practical Effects
00:50:03
Speaker
buildup. Let's talk about mineral buildup. And these are the men of the underdark. Let's talk about it. Their costumes are, oh my God, the budget for these alone.
00:50:13
Speaker
There's so many of them because there are so many extras who are performing these characters, even if it's only 20. No, it's little, yeah. And then they're like repeated and like filmed on top of each other or whatever. It's still so many bodies. And like, I feel like it's definitely more than 20 people and it's just like, and each one's different. Each one is okay. Okay.
00:50:31
Speaker
Okay. These are not just neck down costumes. These are prosthetics from the neck up. And then every other part of the body is covered. yeah And so the whole idea is that these people look like they came out of the rock.
00:50:47
Speaker
Yeah. there're And yet I was feeling like ah An oxidized yeah bronze or copper influence. Yes. So there's like precious metal. Yeah. There's rock. There's like shale rock. Yes. As well as like other kind of rock. So there's armor that's meant to look like it's made out of shale because of the cut of it, which was really a cool detail. There's like intense blunt helmets yeah that like sit flat over the top of the head.
00:51:19
Speaker
And then like there's yeah the the oxidization the greens and the coppers and and it's very mineral. It's very mineral and and like the padding because it's padding with spandex yeah is what these costumes are because they need to be very flexible.
00:51:32
Speaker
But there are these like organic as much as you know like organic stone shapes that are different on everyone. Asymmetrical and there's a very like like a rounded quality. It's not jagged. No. It's rounded the way that like stone that's been hit over and over with water yeah question mark so it's this very specific and really beautifully done because it is really weird and it makes you feel uncomfortable because you're like under the ground and our main characters that we're following are panicking about being underground but like it's very interesting there was something about it though that just made me think of like pen and ink
00:52:15
Speaker
drawings from like the 1500s like I'm thinking like da Vinci i think the Truvian man okay I think it's it's because like there were certain muscle parts yeah where they sculpted out the muscles yeah and so like they built some of the padding on top of muscles to really highlight they also had like vertebrae tails on some and so there were like these stone vertebrae spines that like and also continued into the tails some of them had like Stuff on their head that looked yeah kind of like um like like stacked, like scaly kind of leaf looking. Yes. And it made me think of...
00:52:54
Speaker
It was just a lot. It really was. And it like distorted the size and shape of heads because it was meant to look like they they came out or like they were shaped by water going over rock, like you said. And so there was something very illuminated manuscript about them. And it was like, they also, some of the costumes most, but I think not everybody was in the lights, were the the paints were black light reactive. And so like there was that aspect going on too. Because this is like...
00:53:22
Speaker
a lot of this part of the story is very game of thrones the final battle which i brought up while it was happening because we were to granted watching this in daylight yeah but in front of a giant picture giant picture window my bad but wouldn't change it for the world but it was like even so in a dark room this was very very very dark so like the costumer's knew that they were going to have to battle this so they just like really pulled out all the stops because the base color of all of this spandex was white not even I think an off-white maybe like a white gray like but it was very very light and then they like built on it I think with paints and stuff like that because it wasn't a dark gray it was pretty pale I would be curious to see because I I don't know yeah
00:54:15
Speaker
i don't know. I want to see. I want to see. yeah I don't know. I would have to look at it again. I didn't even think about what the base color was. Yeah. So now I'm like, what do remember looking at? The base color just wasn't a dark one.
Impact of Costume Designers
00:54:26
Speaker
And so even if it was like an ecru or a bone, it was a lighter tone. Even if it was gray, it was a lighter tone. And so it was just like that way it lifted it out of the dark. And then they built texture inside of the spandex and on top with paints. And so it was really, really well done. And very unexpected. Very unexpected and very unique. Yeah. Because it's like, okay, we are in a different place. Yeah. So that's essentially the third kingdom, right, that we've encountered. Yeah.
00:54:53
Speaker
We kind of glossed over the giants. We're going back to that right now. The giants that we've talked about were our main characters. the The Green Witch sends them on their way to these giants. It's like, oh, you're so hungry and you've been walking so long.
00:55:08
Speaker
What are the giants? go to the giant be so nice to you and then it turns out and this is after the stone giants that you mentioned which are the ones that you remember those are brutish those are brutish ones who are basically like they're playing like bowling they're playing bowling with like you know pumice stones and like they are being filmed way in the distance you know and they've got like gray paint so that they call them bob ross painting okay So not Bob Ross paintings. There's one of the giants who looks like Bob Ross because he's got this giant curly hair and like the shape of his like facial hair is very, I don't know. There's something very Bob Ross 70s about him, but there's like six or seven of them and they're they're just like pushing each other and like picking up these stones. But it seems like they've had a few beers, rock beers. They they were certainly not sober. Yeah. No.
00:55:57
Speaker
So these are very different giants. These are stone giants. At this castle, we're seeing giants who are just giant people. Yeah. But these are Germanic giant people. Which, yeah, we decided, yeah you decided based on the hunting dogs. The hunting dogs.
00:56:13
Speaker
Because we were looking at them. Yeah. And there's a difference, a very stark difference. Unlike, like when we saw Prince Caspian's castle, we didn't really see a difference between station. Right. But here there's a very stark difference between station because everyone who's in a serving capacity is very folk.
00:56:30
Speaker
Yes. And so that we were like, where is this? This is obviously Eastern Europe. There was a lot of embroidery. There was a lot of border clothing.
00:56:41
Speaker
There was a lot of color, a lot of color and really vibrant and layering just so much. Yeah. It was beautiful. Yeah. And then like we see the, the, the wealthier Royal giants.
00:56:53
Speaker
This is the other Escoffion that we see. It's more the traditional cone situation, but it's a double cone off each side of the head for the queen. And then the King had this like, curly beard that we couldn't figure out. Oh, this beard.
00:57:06
Speaker
Oh my God. We couldn't figure out what kind of curl that is, but it's like, if you put your fingers on top of each other, it's like sausage curls, but horizontal or like um a lady from the 1920s that has like a finger wave, but on your face, on your face, but it wasn't even a finger wave. No, it was each, it was like full barrel, barrel curls. We'll call them. Like whatever that was, it was intense. It was an affront to, Even his mustache had that going on. it was an affront to Aslan.
00:57:39
Speaker
His beard was curled in defiance of Aslan himself. We yelled out loud. Because we were like, that's kind of a weird beard. And then it was like a super close up and we both were just like...
00:57:53
Speaker
So it's just like, we saw all of them and all of them, the Escoffian was the first one. So it was like, we were like, this is almost like Franco Germanic, but the folk we couldn't quite pin down.
00:58:04
Speaker
And we also, I don't have like a deep history of folk embroidery. So I can't really point, I have to see stuff up close and see yeah details to be able to kind of point to your region, but I'm not educated on it. And so it was like, it was very clearly that this, this area is very folk and this area is very Royal court. Yeah. Brocade velvet situation.
00:58:24
Speaker
And so they end up hunting the kids when they go on an escape in Publix. And ah they send out... How do you say the dog? So, like, it was a very weird choice that the dogs are just dog-sized. And yet the people are giants.
00:58:41
Speaker
It's crazy. So was... I feel like it would be like if you had, like, an army of... like mice that you're sending out hunting. Very weird. But they were Weimaraner dogs. Those like blue, gray, super short hair. Super cute. Kind of look like a lab in their size and shape, but that particular gray, blue, gray with the crazy blue eyes. They're so cute. Yeah. The guy who did the dog calendars, yeah anyone knows.
00:59:09
Speaker
um The only reason I know how to pronounce them because I know somebody who had one. very weird. I'm glad that you kept that tucked back there. It's such a weird name. Yeah. And each of those dogs has a little jacket. Yeah. a little A little outfit on. That's why I thought they were greyhounds because they look like the dogs that like the dog racetrack. They look like a little like they're shivery cold. too like But these dogs are having the time of their life chasing somebody.
00:59:33
Speaker
And so Weimaraners, those are a German breed. So I was like, you know what? I'm going to revise. Because at first I was like, this feels pan medieval European. Yeah. But I think that it is meant to be Germanic. And so i'm i'm I decided for both of us, for all of us, that we're That we're aiming towards German because of the dogs. It makes as much sense as anything else. So who's going to tell us no? and with it And if you want to tell us no, I've at it. But like at this castle, there's just so many costumes. There's so many bodies.
01:00:09
Speaker
So many. In this thing. And even if they're repeat, This is so many costumes because we have three different solid kingdoms as well as the UK. Yeah. So like four major chunks of like big, big, big. completely And completely every different. And I think we both were of the opinion that the majority of them most likely were rented. oh They looked very theatrical in some cases. Like, I mean, I'm sure the, the under dark guys, those are definitely made. Oh, for sure. But I don't feel like knock, knock, knock globe theater, like ah West end. need some stuff.
01:00:43
Speaker
Like it was just like incredible how, how much medieval stuff. And there's, it just feels like there's a lot of Shakespeare, like all over this. so But even if the, even if the job was collecting. Yeah.
01:00:54
Speaker
they who who are Oh my god, did we look up the costume designer? No, because we haven't had access. We didn't even look. even if your job was just collecting, um the designer did a really great job of being really specific within those worlds.
01:01:11
Speaker
And um they were all very clear and distinct objects. And had their own thing going on. So there was a lot of good curation, even if everything wasn't made for this movie. So hats off.
01:01:27
Speaker
Okay. So on IMDb, our costume designers... are listed as Rosalind Little and Judy Pepperdine. But on this episode, because this is technically an episode, The Silver Chair, I think I saw three names. Interesting. So IMDB, I don't think, is listing one of them. Okay. And um I'm just leaving that open.
01:01:48
Speaker
but ah So I'm so sorry to the third person, if there is a third person, unless my eyes deceive me, which is also possible. Okay. the the work that was done on this phenomenal yeah phenomenal and like constantly stuff for you to look at it made the world feel really really filled out like for a tv production yeah this is incredible yeah and so like watching all these things and then being able to like have fun with it is so much it's great yeah And obviously, like a lot of it was filmed on location in these castles and a lot was filmed outside. Like there's not that many places where you could tell it was filmed on a set. A lot of it was just just out. Like that's a huge amount of work. Yeah. And the only times you could tell something was really filmed on a set is when there was a giant halo around the actors because it was obvious that they were being dropped in. Yeah.
01:02:43
Speaker
those those were the few moments that it really yeah give it away um so somebody we haven't talked about their costume was puddle glum yeah and this was a costume that we actually talked about for a while because this was one of the ones that really felt 70s theater yeah with the texture there's a lot of different open weaves mixed in but also think you named this that like he's very earthy and very radagast but he's very bright Yeah, I was really surprised.
01:03:11
Speaker
There was a lot more vibrancy to the colors than you might have assumed if you just were like reading about this character on paper. yeah And it was a lot of it was that waistcoat, which was really beautiful.
01:03:26
Speaker
big good yeah really really long but had a lot of really bright like hot like orange and like turquoise and green and we were trying to decide if it was like woven or painted yeah because it was a sort of organic bagelie floral and there's so much beautiful set painting happening and prop painting because there there are shields and then there's that giant wall piece that's behind the silver chair in the underdark that are very, very stylized yeah murals and things like that. And like the, the shields almost feel like, like spray painted. Probably not, but like it has that, that free handedness. Yeah. And there are a lot of shields. I didn't count how many, but there, there were so many made for this. It wasn't just like, we'll just do four and then like stack them. Each one was a different animal. Yeah.
01:04:13
Speaker
And each one had a little bit of like a back to it, but they were all stunning. And so it felt like this, this artist, uh, that style translated to this waistcoat situation and and then you pointed out too that like waistcoats like this what era would this be this would be like reformation kind of like with the length maybe yeah I think so because it's like um you can kind of trace there's certain things that that really change the time period so if you're have like some understanding of the time period you can kind of place yourself but it's like there's a time where like because a waistcoat is basically a vest you know just different word um and they're fancy word for vest and there's times where the front is longer than the back so like they're made of two different fabrics and at the side seam the back just ends yeah and the front just keeps going and his was
01:05:08
Speaker
so long it was so long that we both thought that it was like a hybrid apron yes because there are also garments that have like the front parts would have like a strap that would go around the leg not always but like that is a thing that exists and like to protect your legs from i think what i'm thinking of is um uh i can't remember the word right now but folks that work with horses Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know anything about horses. There's like a specific kind of thing that I'm thinking of.
01:05:38
Speaker
And so um this, we were like, is it an apron? Like, what is it? Because you pointed out where where the back usually ends, it stops and then the fronts keep going. it usually flares yeah a little bit because if you were thinking about someone wearing this garment with like a juste decor coat or any kind of coat over this,
01:05:57
Speaker
you would want that fabric to continue. So it's not being shown as abruptly ending. yeah if the coat moves, like you want to make it look, cause the fronts are usually the, the more expensive fabrics because it's what's being seen.
01:06:09
Speaker
And so, or the more elaborate fabrics. Yeah. And so like this though, it keeps going past where the back is abruptly ending and then it cuts, it gets move forward. Yeah. Like you, it's, it's one of those things that is just sort of like,
01:06:27
Speaker
There are certain shapes that get repeated throughout time and across cultures because we just, they just look right to our eyes. And then it's like abruptly right stop downloading. Yeah. And it's like, instead of flaring out, it like cuts back in and gets narrower and it just looks like,
01:06:47
Speaker
weird because things are not made that way very often. so it looks like a deliberate cut. Yeah. Just to, but like a, almost like a, how we have to make him look different. Yes.
01:07:00
Speaker
And so, but the quickest way to do it was just to cut this piece away yeah instead of, because maybe the other way would look, make him look more like Louis the 14th. Right. Then, then you want him to. Yeah. And so it was just like,
01:07:13
Speaker
Ah, that's like one of the one time, one of one of the one times, one of the only times that we were like, huh, because it yeah it wasn't a fluid pre decision. It was a subversion of your expectation.
01:07:27
Speaker
i also felt that way about his hat because he had like a pointy looking wizard hat, but it was straw. Yeah, so it's a witch hat where it's got the flat brim and the cone, but it's made out of straw yeah that was painted. Braided and coiled. Yeah, braided and coiled. And it's like...
01:07:42
Speaker
oranges and greens yeah it was like it looked like it was airbrush yeah did that's the that's the painting that's what all those paintings were was airbrush yeah thank you for being so smart oh oh my gosh like spring but like i think they just had him stand somewhere and they just like took the airbrush it was like down the hat on the hair onto the waistcoat like he was So much like color, much color. And went on he's got this like straight pheasant feather, just one that's on that hat too. And there's like a couple other things on there, I think, because he's supposed to look very organic, which is why some of those colors translate to his dreadlocks question mark. I was trying to figure out what the hair situation was. Interesting wig going here. yeah And they were, they were like textured hair. He has to have textured hair.
01:08:33
Speaker
And it's quite long. It's very long. and it's very, very, it's a character in its own. But it, I think, Yeah. It's creature. I don't really have developed thoughts about that No, it's just, ah it's just puddle glum. Yeah.
01:08:51
Speaker
Puddle glum. The marsh wiggle. The marsh wiggle. And so like, there's just, there's delightful stuff happening yeah with these costumes. And, and we really did spend a while talking too about how it would be so cool to just like learn some of these skills because some of them are just not being displayed really the same way yeah that they were anymore because of the difference in expectations for visual effects.
01:09:17
Speaker
Yeah. I think especially like creature costumes um have kind of been eliminated in favor of like CGI. We all know this, but um I don't know. it's It's like the same thing. I i don't know is,
01:09:34
Speaker
who prefers CGI i over like a puppet yeah that physically exists because the ability to connect emotionally with the puppet is so much more immediate.
01:09:49
Speaker
It really is. And that's displayed alone with like the little characters that people don't think about but sell well for dolls of like Star Wars. Like the little porgs. The porgs. The robots. The little tiny robots.
01:10:03
Speaker
Those things... we just connect to them so differently because they feel so real. They feel so real. And okay. There are two things that I want to shout out here.
01:10:16
Speaker
One are the dolls, the puppets that they use were the giants in the Germanic castle. Because because our main our three main characters are supposed to be our size and then the giants are giant, right?
01:10:28
Speaker
And a couple of times they pick them up and move them. And there's like a puppet that has legs that kick. I hated it. And it was pretty seamless. Like it was, it was actually quite smooth. It was very smooth for, for a TV movie that has a lot of the halo glow, people being superimposed on other things.
01:10:50
Speaker
And they use that same puppet twice with the legs kicking. And then they have another one or two for the children yeah and it is so crazy and it was just like all of a sudden we're like but disconcerted and then the other thing i really want to shout out is at the very end of the movie prince rillian has regained his senses And he fights Jadis the Green Witch. And he kills her. Oh, that transformation. The transformation and results.
01:11:25
Speaker
Those are the two things I want to talk about here. So we see her transform into a snake. The snake Is a giant puppet. Yeah. Snake.
01:11:35
Speaker
Like it's. The snake head is like a human head size. Yes. That's what we're. That's the scale we're talking about. Yes. Scale. Scale. me yeah And like. There's. There's nobody operating this puppet. Once it finally resolves. It's literally the prince. Like.
01:11:50
Speaker
self-fighting with it, right? And then he's like, stab! And then like it falls and it's like, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. um But the transformation is ah is ah is an old-fashioned step-by-step do the next layer of makeup, stand where you were, we're going to film and you're going to do a different level of reaction and it's all going to seamlessly go together, kind of stop motion, kind of break down, right?
01:12:16
Speaker
It is... great It was great. It is great. There's just no... It looked cool and weird and creepy. It was all of those things. yeah And it was really cool that they thought to do that. And it was like such a cool display of special effects makeup too.
01:12:35
Speaker
Because this is like a cobra headed snake. It's not like a smooth. It's got the the crests and everything. And so having this woman shift from these Maid Marian curls.
01:12:46
Speaker
Boom, boom, boom, boom. Into this like crested snake thing was really fun to watch. yeah And that felt like a chef gets way to end this. And then like the end is a real hard cut where just like, we're done.
01:12:58
Speaker
It was jarring. Yeah. I mean, we're back at Prince Caspian's castle. Yeah. But it's like, he dead. New king. And then Aslan's like, get out.
01:13:09
Speaker
Like, he was like, don't have use for you anymore. Sorry, I did forget that. Oh, the but thorn. the thorn and the blitz. Like, these two things that happened where we both were like, wait, what?
01:13:20
Speaker
What? It was like someone... was making this movie and then like looked at their watch and was like, oh no, we only have three minutes left before this has to be over. We got to resolve it.
01:13:32
Speaker
And they're like, how about we kind of don't resolve it? Sounds good. And this is when like after this like treat of this, the woman transforming into the snake moment, which is like jittery. Sure. Like it's not smooth, but it is very fun when you're looking at like technique and stuff. It's, it's very enjoyable and it does make you feel creeped out.
01:13:53
Speaker
But then we have like crazy effects again of the flying where the kids are like attached to a string and just like yoinked up and then like dangled places and they're trying to be as still as they fall.
01:14:03
Speaker
Or they're even literally just standing still and the camera is moving. I wouldn't be surprised if they film them like do that thing where you film someone laying down kind of like thrashing around. Oh my god a hundred percent. It was just like nuts. It really does feel like a popsicle puppet, like a paper puppet on a popsicle stick, just like lifting them up, lifting them down, moving them. It's just real weird.
01:14:22
Speaker
But... The thorn, yeah, is like Aslan plucks them out of the this like end resolution and is like they're in their neutral creek scene again. Yes. Which is where they need weigh. Yeah.
01:14:34
Speaker
Question mark. And um he just goes, pluck up that thorn. He's like, go over to that thicket and pluck the thorn you shall find there. his child pulls out a dagger.
01:14:47
Speaker
it's like a tiny... little like weed of a plant that's like four inches tall it's green and it's like naked it's not even that thick of a bush he reaches his hand in and he pulls out like a wooden sculpted quote thorn that's like seven inches long it's vampire steak is what it is it's a conical vampire steak and he just like shoves it slowly into this like lion puppet paw which then bleeds the other And it's just like, what? And then and you said, what's happening?
01:15:23
Speaker
Because for some reason, Prince Caspian, the boy comes up out of the water of the creek, but not realistically. No, no He's flat, like pancake flat, because he's just video effect.
01:15:35
Speaker
And then they like transpose the video and like make it stand up. And then he just like walks out zoom up to the riverbed. And then Aslan plucks all three of them out.
01:15:46
Speaker
And we were talking, so I don't really, I think Prince Gaspian, the kid, like, explained it, but they, like, hand waved, like, why he just died, and then he got back. And ah Aslan's like, yeah, he's dead. Everybody's dead. Oh, yeah, he's like, it know's like he's died.
01:16:01
Speaker
Everyone dies, which I was like, thanks, Aslan. yeah And then he's like, even I have died. they We're like, okay. But then it's like you see the wall of their school again because they've gone like through stone garden door. It's like the secret garden. yeah And you see the wall and you're like, oh, he's going to send them back.
01:16:20
Speaker
And then Aslan, in his great wisdom, just explodes the wall. And I was like, why? It's just like we've also gone back in time because that's the big thing about these books, right? Is that anybody anytime anybody goes into the proverbial wardrobe, the second they come back,
01:16:38
Speaker
It's the second that they left. Yeah. And so like they could have been there for years and other characters have been away for years. And then the second they come back, they are child again. And it's the second they left. So the second that the children left at the beginning of this, they were running away from bullies.
01:16:52
Speaker
So the bullies are still chasing them. Yeah. And we'll just disintegrate. It just blows up. And then these two children in their Ren Faire garb with this like little boy king run.
01:17:06
Speaker
ah Jill, for some reason, has a fucking whip that she's like holding the whip against. like They've got weapons. They didn't have them the whole time. mean, Eustace had his sword that was like half his height, which was like, okay, kiddo. like Chris Caspian is like waving his like aluminum sword around. And then the kids all go and turn around and run away.
01:17:27
Speaker
Meanwhile, you and I are like, how would that be
Abrupt Ending of Narnia Series
01:17:30
Speaker
your response? Yes, you'd be freaked out, but you'd be like, what the hell is happening? And why are these kids talking to this giant lion on this hillside six feet away from our school?
01:17:41
Speaker
strange. It's so funny. And then like their clothes magically change back to their culottes. They're gray on gray. They're they're white on gray on.
01:17:52
Speaker
And I was also just like, what? What's Caspian up to? Because he's not going with them. No, he just, like, disappears. Yeah. And Aslan, like, erases himself slowly from the Photoshop image.
01:18:06
Speaker
It was such a confusing ending. It was so... And then it, like, sparked the whole idea, okay, if Narnia is where people go when they die from this plane, then where do people from Narnia go when they die? i guess they just go into the creek.
01:18:22
Speaker
Yeah.
01:18:25
Speaker
Except for the one minute where they're like, yeah, I just died, whatever. But it's nice to see you, friend. Let's go scare your school bullies. And then I guess I'm out of here again. but and it was like, you expect there to be a scene of the kids like returning to school? No, credits. No, roll credits. Like harsh.
01:18:42
Speaker
It was like, ah, I didn't even have like an emotional wind down. Like this is just boom, boom, boom.
Unfinished Series and Filmmaker Decisions
01:18:46
Speaker
We're done now. And then that was lesson. There was no discussion. No. learn And like as a kid. I remember that abrupt, like, what do you mean? And that was the last of them that they made. So there was no resolution to the story because they didn't make the last story yeah of it all. And so I was just like, wait, what?
01:19:03
Speaker
Which is such a strange choice because like, if you know, like, okay, we're only going to make four of these, whatever. Why would you make the second to last book and not just skip that? Because like, I'm sure that that story as interesting as it was, was not germane to the final book.
Adaptation Process and Production Value
01:19:20
Speaker
And I also can't even remember if this is the second to last or the third to last. I don't even know. There's the silver chair, the horse and his boy and the last battle. The last battle is the last one, but the horse and his boy and the silver chair, I can't remember which one is which, but they're both.
01:19:34
Speaker
It might be the horse and his boy after. i don't remember, but it's like, Still, it's the end. It's the resolution part of this long series. And like, we're just going to harsh cut. We're not going to like skip through.
01:19:48
Speaker
Come on now. Whatever. so yeah. What a wild ride. truly a wild ride but a delight costume wise oh so much fun and it was so weird to watch it again after not having seen it in the last 30s yeah like I it's probably been 30 years since I saw it yeah and it's been probably 20 some and chain like 20 and change and so it's just like weird because I was totally immersed as a kid. Like i was like, this is real. yeah Like, and I was just like, then of course I got a little bit older and I was like, I don't even care.
01:20:22
Speaker
I love this. And then now I'm like, Whoa, what a ride this must've been on to, to work on because like this was four two hour and change long projects yeah in the same world.
01:20:38
Speaker
How did they film this? Was it back to back? Because like these were kids and some of these kids repeat and show up again. So it's like you had to. Yeah. To a certain point, go back to back.
01:20:50
Speaker
And like, this is just a massive project that the BBC funded. And it's just like, holy cow. like And did we do any research on any of this information? Of course we didn't. Why would we do that?
01:21:01
Speaker
So it's just like, ooh, I really hope that out there, and I will look maybe later if I remember, more information about the making of this. because it was just like And they obviously, even though you know it's fun to talk about whether some of the effects were still hold up or whatever but like they clearly spent some money on this they really did yeah they really did because yeah this these were filmed in at the very end of the 80s and then came out it's like 90 or maybe don't know but i i feel like there was like 93 was one of the years it was like listed so I don't know how they were released I don't know yeah when the filming period was but it was either 89 or right in the beginning of the 90s yeah and I don't even know how long it took them to film these but
01:21:45
Speaker
This is a big undertaking. Yeah. So shout out. Yeah. Check it out if you've never seen it or um maybe someone has seen like the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe because obviously you most identifiable. But watch the Silver Chair. Yeah. Be scarred the way we were.
01:22:03
Speaker
Yeah. It's a wild thing.
Anticipation for 'The Green Knight'
01:22:07
Speaker
What are we going to watch next? Okay. Oh my God. Okay. so next we are going to ah skip forward in terms of filmmaking, but backward in time.
01:22:26
Speaker
So we are going to watch the movie, the green night, which I want to say came out in 2021. Yeah. twenty one Maybe.
01:22:37
Speaker
Maybe we'll cut this part. Maybe.
01:22:43
Speaker
I was really interested in this movie um from the second that I heard about it. And i just because it was 2021, did not see it in the theater. I waited until it was like available to stream, but I was really excited about watching it um because I personally am always interested when someone takes like the genres and like maybe more familiar stories and does something their own yeah with it and brings a really strong point of view. um That's always intriguing to me, even if ultimately I'm like, you know,
01:23:23
Speaker
Oh, maybe not my favorite or whatever, but like, I love a point of view. yeah I'll take a point of view that I don't agree with over no point of view any day. ah this Is this A24? Ooh, good question. I don't know, actually.
01:23:37
Speaker
um but This is a return to the ah storylines of King Arthur for anyone that's not familiar.
01:23:51
Speaker
um But it's completely, i would say, fresh, different perspective and different kind of storytelling. And I haven't seen it yet. yeah I thought you had seen it.
01:24:04
Speaker
So I haven't seen it. It's been on my to watch list for a really long time. But I do remember the impact that the trailer had where was just like, this is visually... Yes. Like lyrical. Like it's so beautiful. You can tell that everything is working really well together and that there's like really like delicious like depth of color and and everything. So I'm really looking forward to seeing this.
01:24:25
Speaker
So excited. So we will be back next time with The Green Knight and we'll talk about it then. Thanks for listening. ah Thanks for going on this wild ride.
01:24:37
Speaker
Bye. Bye.