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Frankenstein (1931)- The Face That Launched a Thousand Ships
28 Plays2 months ago
Suns out, undead monsters out! We are spending the summer with our pals Dr. Frankenstein and his monster. First up, the OG Baddie that started it all in Hollywood.
Join us! And don't forget the sunscreen, you're looking a bit green darling.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0021884/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_frankenstein
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Transcript
Introduction to Hot Set Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
Summer 2025 Mini-Season Announcement
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, friends. It is the summer of 2025. We have decided to do a little mini season to get us through the hot summer months and naturally.
Frankenstein as a Summer Icon
00:00:37
Speaker
I don't even think we need to explain why we picked the Frankenstein character to explore for the summer. i mean they just They go hand in hand. you know You think of summer, you think of barbecues and the beach and the pool and Frankenstein. The living undead.
00:01:00
Speaker
um it's ah it's a natural pairing. So I don't think that anyone is going to be wondering why we decided to do that.
Frankenstein Film Series Overview
00:01:06
Speaker
um But and we are going to be um watching four different films that either are or are directly inspired by ah the original run of Frankenstein movies that started 1931. And And um just so people are aware, we're going to be releasing these episodes every other week for the summer because, you know, we deserve vacation too. And um we both have a lot going on this summer ah work-wise. So this is a little bit better schedule for both of us.
1931 Frankenstein Movie Discussion Begins
00:01:43
Speaker
and a way to live in the world of Frankenstein for longer as we stretch out and savor these moments with this iconic monster character.
00:01:54
Speaker
Today we're here With the original 1931 Boris Karloff as the monster Frankenstein, um i don't think there's any better way to kick off Frankenstein than with the sort of face that launched a thousand ships, original design of the monster, iconic universal horror film.
00:02:19
Speaker
um I don't even know if people need us to tell them what happens in this movie. I think everybody kind of knows. you know We've got the mad doctor. he ah has lost his damn mind before we even meet him.
00:02:36
Speaker
he is in the process of stealing corpses when we first meet him. He reanimates them using lightning. he creates... ah This undead monster, he ah horrifically abuses the monster. The monster gets out. um he accidentally kills a young girl. He menaces a bunch of people. And the angry mob does what the angry mob does. And they take care of it and they kill him.
00:03:06
Speaker
Credits. The end. This best recounting that ever.
Personal Anecdotes and Reactions
00:03:15
Speaker
Because, like, for okay, so you have seen the 1931 version before. i have not. Yeah.
00:03:23
Speaker
And, um like, of course, i I'm familiar with it, but I'm – Got a little cat interference going on. Stop trying to chew on that. um She's not taking my advice at all.
00:03:35
Speaker
She's just strict. In case the camera blacked out at all, it's because it was in Echo's mouth. I feel like I'm watching a monster movie. There's like a monster coming. his of She's like, I don't know if I'm here, but I am.
00:03:49
Speaker
ah My child. what like
00:03:55
Speaker
I'm familiar with, with like, okay. So on in Hollywood, there's um this like museum that's kind of across the street from If not Grauman Theater, then like, is it like the Paramount Theater or whatever where all the award shows are?
00:04:12
Speaker
But it's like on the boulevard.
Visit to Hollywood Museum
00:04:14
Speaker
i think And it's this like kind of sleeper museum where it's like you would just walk past it and be like, oh, that just looks like the I don't know, a tourist trap. And it kind of is, but like there's a million levels to this museum. And so it's like different periods of of like Hollywood history and like a lot of classic Hollywood.
00:04:36
Speaker
And I feel like there was like a level or at least just an area that was dedicated to like, you know, the older monster movies. And so I feel like I, ah couple of years ago spent some time like deliberately
Impact of Frankenstein's Design
00:04:50
Speaker
thinking about that. And that's as much ah thinking about it as I've done. Yeah. And so it's like, it is cool to see in motion the the makeup design for for the Frankenstein's monster that base yeah set sail to thousand ships because like this is the one that everybody copies.
00:05:08
Speaker
right And like it does it's not at all what the text says. you know know it is totally... The design of the filmmakers. And the strength of somebody's design that it like has lasted this long and it's that iconic is pretty rad. So that was cool to see. And also like seeing Boris Karloff in motion as the monster. okay.
00:05:31
Speaker
i okay ah dear cinephiles, this is us.
Challenges with Classic Films
00:05:35
Speaker
We're friends. This is an intimate safe space. Absolutely. I am not. It's also our space that we are in charge of. his So these are the rules to this sleepover.
00:05:47
Speaker
I'm not a cinephile in this moment in the same way that others might be. They're very passionate about the history and like, oh, amazing. Old movies were so amazing. If you go back,
00:05:59
Speaker
in our ah podcast's history to our first season where we did 100 years of sci-fi, you will hear me get more and more and more relieved the closer and closer we to color film.
00:06:14
Speaker
And how how full of joy I am. Like we've we've left something behind. Now I understand how how incredible movie you know movie history is. And like there there are folks, okay, don't kill each other, guys. There are folks who exist who will retain the knowledge about those things and and are really good at talking about them.
00:06:36
Speaker
Me, I just go like, could you imagine if the Muppets did this? Yeah. Yeah. It's what a world it would be It's I don't even know exactly what it is, but it's really hard for me to get really emotionally invested in the movies of this era. And, you know, that's just, you know, that's just something that we both have to deal with and accept amongst ourselves. Like it's fine.
00:07:05
Speaker
um I don't know. Like, okay, the first time that I saw this movie was in the sixth grade. And I specify that it was in the sixth grade because we watched it in my sixth grade math class.
00:07:19
Speaker
I have no idea why, but my math- like one of those rainy days? Okay, we're going to wheel in the giant TV kind of thing? I think it was like supposed to be like a treat at the end of the school year or something. Yeah. That
Early Film Experiences
00:07:34
Speaker
feels like some math teacher pull on you.
00:07:36
Speaker
I know. What is it about being a math teacher that just like makes you insane? but like, I... you know i i was old enough at that point to just like have developed a sense of like ironic distance from anything that wasn't like you know what was on MTV. and ah um ah so it just like You're not going to feel the effect of Frankenstein in a room full of 11-year-olds watching it at 10 a.m. That's just not going
00:08:10
Speaker
be it no um but I don't feel like I ever have like I've watched it a couple times and I've never developed that like Emotional connection to the movie.
00:08:22
Speaker
i don't know. know. I think for me, it's just, it's this period where we were very, we were coming up at the other end of the century from pre-talkies.
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah. And then this is like early talkies. And so it's very, and it's so funny to say this because we do work in theater, but it's these, this era And it continues on into the 60s and kind of in the 70s. And in the 70s, there's a departure from this.
00:08:53
Speaker
But film, and like, that's, of course, there are... hits and misses in there. And it's not like what I'm saying is not a hundred percent fact, but like there's this theatricality in acting yeah that is very much like an actor on a stage who has to project every emotion and thought of their character to the person who's sitting in the back of the theater.
00:09:16
Speaker
But you're like, I'm right here. I'm right in front of the screen. You don't have to throw this that far. And so it's just like that, that large largeness.
00:09:29
Speaker
is a little bit harder for me to to follow because like the the writing is also so big sometimes. And so it's just like... Yeah. And yet like I experienced the opposite of that now with some movies where I feel like there's trend of filmmaking now where like actors are just like very
Acting Styles: Then and Now
00:09:54
Speaker
stoic and very expressionless and very flat in their
Evolution of Horror Makeup
00:10:01
Speaker
delivery. And it's like, it's so weird to me because it's actors that I know are not
00:10:07
Speaker
always like that so it's clearly like something that they've been like asked to do for like film projects but like there it it and makes me also have the same reaction but like from the opposite end of Yeah.
00:10:26
Speaker
at times in like nos feratu with um lillly rose depp because i was just like i guess the note is don't move your face when you're tall like it it was tough Because i wanted more from her. Like I wanted more like this from that movie. And i got it from some characters, but like I didn't get it from her.
00:10:52
Speaker
And so I don't know. I guess somewhere in the middle is where I need people to be. Yeah. I mean, I feel like in the middle is like my comfort zone. And I totally respect anybody who likes to live on the periphery of the big or the super small.
00:11:06
Speaker
But it's just like, especially with the black and white. There's like not enough for my eyes to rove over, I guess, because it's like I want to be able to see the color. Like I saw a piece that was like a Valentino costume piece. It's a very famous one. It's like a...
00:11:25
Speaker
matador jacket and whenever you see it it's black and light and in reality it's like very very very saturated and it's actually still held on to the color all these years later because the collectors who've cared for it have cared for it very well and so it's like i know that they're all wearing very interesting things but it's all flat and like i write my my little hamster that lives behind my eyeballs but gotta get off this wheel so it's just like um you know talk about like being inspired by frankenstein like if you watched if you grew up in the era
Use of Color in Black-and-White Films
00:12:05
Speaker
like that it was on or the era of nick at night like we did like watching the monsters it's like one of those you know like facts that they always trot out about that show is that like the set the living room set was like bright pink and
00:12:20
Speaker
Because the way it photographed in black and white looked good. And so it's like, but you know, like, so you know that there is like color and things going on in this know that there's crazy secrets. And like when I found out about how makeup was done for black and white, I was in my 20s and I was like, hold up.
00:12:39
Speaker
People were rocking around with like the craziest looks on their faces. yeah i want to see that. I want to see it so bad. Yeah. It's like one of the things that was really hard for me, like in every like art class was when the, um they would do like exercises with us where they'd tell you to like take pictures like values of, you know, light to dark and assign different colors to the values and then like do your like drawing or painting, whatever like that.
00:13:13
Speaker
And, but like replicate the like value. And it's so hard because like my brain gets stuck on the color and I have a hard time,
00:13:25
Speaker
like assessing just like value in like these really saturated colors. So like, I don't think that I would be a good black and white filmmaker. Like I just, it would not work for me. It would not be a good Yeah. I think, I think there would be a lot about experimentation that could be exciting if it was like a project that we were a part of, but like just being an observer is maybe not enough for my brains.
00:13:50
Speaker
I know. And I know like so much of this movie and the way it was filmed is about like the the shadow and like the the reveal and like what you can see and what you can't see and like all of that kind of stuff. And it's like I understand it intellectually, but it doesn't like hit me emotionally. And also the thing with all these universal monsters is I'm not scared of them. Yeah.
00:14:16
Speaker
Because the likelihood of me encountering like a Frankenstein monster, I would say low i i think also that like these designs, like the Wolfman, the creature from the Black Lagoon, these like very iconic monsters.
00:14:32
Speaker
from way back when in the day, they're they're almost like old friends now. And we've also like seen so many different versions of that, that it's like yeah looking back at them, theyre theyre they don't have the the shock value for us that they did for the original audience.
00:14:51
Speaker
And so it is pretty awesome to look at it through... a perceived lens of like
Familiarity of Classic Monster Designs
00:14:56
Speaker
the original audience. And we've talked about this before with like the sci-fi stuff, which is like the technology and the the tricks that were on display, but, but it doesn't hold the same thing for me. So it's like truly seeing Boris Karloff.
00:15:10
Speaker
I was like, Hey Boris. And I also read in the trivia on IMDb that like the actress who was playing Elizabeth was so, so worried that she would be terrified of him. And I was like, Oh, sweet pea.
00:15:24
Speaker
I know.
00:15:32
Speaker
and was like what a different time and also very sweet very sweet to like be considerate and be like there's something happening that's outside of what we're doing to remind you that like i'm not goingnna eat your soul Right. Which I'm like, okay, I guess this is scary. i guess. yeah i It was scary and startling. And it was just like, that is very cool. And it's very cool to see.
00:15:56
Speaker
How, okay, so we are going to be talking about a lot of different Frankensteins during this Franken summer. yeah And there's one Frankenstein that I do love very, very much that I want to give a special shout out to that I do feel affected by a like visually. And it's the Rory Kinnear Frankenstein from Penny Dreadful, the TV show from a few years back.
00:16:18
Speaker
Because the way that that hair and makeup was done is ah more based in reality of like, this is a person who was cobbled together from a body that was, you know,
00:16:32
Speaker
murder or executed, remember, but a dead body. yeah And so it's like the hair is sparse. You can see like the wounds as they like change, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so for me, we've been exposed to horror makeup for so long that is more visceral.
00:16:49
Speaker
And this is more fantasy based because of the flathead, bolts, like all that kind of stuff makes this almost like a 2D version of a monster, like in motion.
00:17:00
Speaker
so I'm like, hey, when's the Scooby gang going to pop out? Rip off that mask. If it weren't for you. like you and i bet there is like a Scooby-Doo movie with Frankenstein that we could have like done for this. I'm sure it's out there.
00:17:20
Speaker
And like that too,
Setting of Frankenstein Story - Germany or Austria?
00:17:21
Speaker
I... i I also probably had this like knowledge in my head, but I had completely forgotten that this version of Frankenstein took was was modern the time. And that it was very American.
00:17:36
Speaker
but um but are they... Are they in Germany? okay Are they in Solvang? Like, where are they? I think, okay, so this, I'm i'm ah really outing myself as an idiot here in this moment. And I just want, I just, I need to be vulnerable.
00:17:55
Speaker
Um, I honestly never really gave much ah thought to where Frankenstein was. So if you had asked me, I probably would have just said Germany, but we have been watching the reality competition show destination X this summer, which involves like all of these different clues and things about different countries in Europe.
00:18:15
Speaker
And up apparently according to Destination X, ah Frankenstein, the story of Dr. Frankenstein takes place in Austria. That was the second one because the outfits, dirndls and The little, yeah. yeah um The town folk and their like finery. Okay.
00:18:34
Speaker
If we may just leap over the the timeline of the film. Yeah. Because... As you said, we kind of come into the story where Dr. Frankenstein has already lost his damn mind. And people are like, we got to go figure it out. um and and There's just people constantly hammering on that door.
00:18:54
Speaker
ah just really pounding on those thick wooden doors. It's just nuts. And like nobody has any patience. or Nobody's like, knock, knock. Hey, you good?
00:19:05
Speaker
It's just like, you've lost your damn mind. Which like, I kind of appreciate because i'm like, yes, get to the point. This movie is an hour and 10 minutes and I thank them for that. i am with you. And so I'm, I think I'm like so shocked because usually you don't see that. And so I'm like, oh, they're to business.
00:19:21
Speaker
um But like, we we skip forward, forward, forward. And there's this like celebration on the wedding day of Dr. Frankenstein and Elizabeth. And the sound of this movie is something else because I truly looked like
Unusual Wedding Scene Music
00:19:39
Speaker
really hard. You know, when you can't hear something right, so you look harder. Yeah.
00:19:44
Speaker
Or you can't see it, so you listen harder. Yeah. It was like the the Austrian, air quotes, music that was playing. i was just like, what is happening? And I could swear to God when they have these dances that are very interesting, but I could swear that there was like a vaquero that popped up.
00:20:09
Speaker
And I was like, good friend, what you're doing? Because I was like, that hat... It's a very different hat. oh And we've got a very decorative belt. That's a very, very South American Mexican situation here. And I was like, sir, where'd you come from? do you like stumble in off another chute next door? That's what it felt like. It felt like they were grabbing anybody to just like populate this, but he just happened to get closest to the camera in like a, you know, an Alaman left kind of situation. And I was just like, sir,
00:20:42
Speaker
don't think you're in the Bavarian Alps. Yeah. That's amazing. And so I just, if anybody ever watches this based on us suggesting it, I would love for anybody to see that and keep an eye out. yeah Confirm or deny.
00:20:57
Speaker
Give a little screenshot of that. I was like, gentlemen. Hey man. And like that at that moment in the music, I was like, my imagination might be substituting some like soft mariachis in the music with like whatever is meant to be happening for this village.
00:21:13
Speaker
But the fact that it was like modern for the time means that we are in suit land. We are in suitsville. There are suits, suits, suits. So many suits. And I loved every one of them. They're great.
00:21:26
Speaker
We're in very sharp haircut, shellacked, very sharp, like There's a lot of really big knots on neckties. There's a lot of collars on shirts that are very pointy and like not... The thing that I was looking at a lot...
00:21:47
Speaker
And I think that this is something that kind of maybe gets lost ah sometimes now, like looking back at these like decades is there's a softness to the tailoring of some of the men's suits. Like they have the fabric itself is like soft and you can like the it's like spongy and the the places where it's seemed together is like soft and spongy looking.
00:22:17
Speaker
And it's these like wool, thick wool suits that I think at the time people would have understood as being like country, like country gentlemen, as opposed to city.
1930s Fashion vs Modern Fashion
00:22:31
Speaker
and um it's something that i just really appreciated. Like there's like soft, points on like lapels because the fabric is like so thick that you can't get that like you don't have these like thin slick ultra processed wools where you can get like a really pointed lapel it's like there's just like a sponginess to the textile because it's so thick and like uh and nubbly wool thing and now with all the like fast fashion and polyester and all that stuff that's not something that we regularly encounter in our everyday fashion because like we have of course different classes of folks um but like you can go to a thrift store and you can get an older suit but that suit will probably be from the 90s or something so like it won't
00:23:25
Speaker
you can still get, of course, like wool things and you can get different textures, but they will be from different eras of fashion. um Even 10 years ago, 15 years ago, or, you know, from a designer that's deliberately making that now, but it's not like when you're reading a suit that someone's wearing, it's more like, Oh, you've got skinny pants versus, you know, like whatever or you've got, like a high waist, you know, there's like different ways of reading suits now.
00:23:55
Speaker
yeah And that's a really good point because like you wouldn't be able to necessarily point to someone wearing a suit today and go, ah, you're a farmer from the countryside or you're a businessman. Like we all have access to all of the things and most of the things are kind of similar, at least like texture wise, visually.
00:24:14
Speaker
And there's just like... the the way that people wear clothes is just different in the 1930s. And there were casual suits and there were fancy suits and there were business suits like that, but they are all suits, but they, they're made different ways. They serve different functions.
00:24:36
Speaker
They have slightly different tailoring to like, allow you to do different things or just like they're cut a little different. And like, we don't, have that same variety now because you only wear a suit in certain contexts now like you farmers don't really wear suit when they're out like doing stuff and i mean like you can argue whether they like you know did day to day back then but like much more likely church suit it's like you're the thing that you wear for wedding funeral church your sunday best the thing that you wear for like your whole adult life until it falls apart that's different and like we also used to have um
00:25:16
Speaker
it's like a stereotype now of like artists or professors or academics who have the like patches on their elbows. But those were like a real thing at one point where people literally put patches on their elbows because their arms were up on tables and they were reading so much or like they were, you know, doing so much with their elbows that they were pulling holes. And now it's a fashion thing.
00:25:41
Speaker
Right. but And so, yeah. But yeah, it was just nice to see because it's um it's something that we do see replicated in like costume design, but we don't see it in our lives anymore.
00:25:59
Speaker
And so it's something that I think that people would have... understood more as just a regular person going to the movies. Whereas now I think you need more like specialized knowledge to recognize that or think about it. Or like you might sort of subconsciously absorb some of it, but not like think about it specifically.
00:26:24
Speaker
Whereas I feel like back then it was just like, more understood because that was the culture that people lived in at the time. So they don't have to really think about it. It's just, yeah, they just know.
00:26:35
Speaker
Yeah. um We should talk about the fact that there is not specifically accredited costume designer on this movie. Let's get it. We're back. We're back. ah Just when you thought like it was over, we go back to the 30s when they did not take much care to credit people. People didn't exist. This was done by the wind.
00:26:58
Speaker
It seems like we can safely assume that the costumes were designed by legendary costume designer Vera West. She was the head of costume design at Universal 1928 to think.
00:27:15
Speaker
she has almost four hundred films credited to her as a designer on imd b for a like that what
00:27:26
Speaker
18 year period of time. But she's not, she does not have this movie listed on her credits. She doesn't have very many credits from 1931 except for Dracula.
00:27:40
Speaker
ah so she's But I think it's safe to assume. She was the head of costume design at the studio at this time. I think it's safe to assume that at the very least, she approved everything that went into
Vera West's Role in Costume Design?
00:27:54
Speaker
this movie. Whether she directly...
00:27:56
Speaker
like designed it i don't know but she certainly same was in charge what an interesting time of like oh because that just makes me feel like um what i think people took away from like devil's devil wears prada with like meryl streep is just kind of somebody walking very quickly with like an assistant or two and like the assistants have clipboards and And this person is going, yes, no, no, yes, no. Because it's like, what but how much time do you have in the day for yeah that many projects that are constantly happening? Because of course, you know, like over here in this studio, you've got this project going over there, that studio, this one's going.
00:28:42
Speaker
So it's just like, how... What was the schedule of of these people like? You know, like I would love to know that. What was a workday like?
00:28:54
Speaker
And was it like theater where we don't have weekends? We just do this all day, every day, all night until probably we collapse. see Yeah, it's just like, oh my God. I know. Or is it like...
00:29:06
Speaker
do you get like a couple weeks to focus on one movie or are you doing like five movies at one time? yeah Like, because when you're someone like her, like some of the years that she's there, she's credited like 30, 40 movies in a 12 month period. That's, you know, two, two to three, three to four movies a month.
00:29:29
Speaker
So that's like a week. her if you If you gave everything equal time, that would be like a week of your time per movie in a calendar year. like ah Who knows? it's i i wish like If I had a time machine, I would go back and look at that because I like i want to know what that What I want to know also is just like the paperwork. I want to see the paperwork for these things because like if you don't have a dedicated costumer or you know designer or team that is listed on a project –
00:30:06
Speaker
What is the movie studio costume department like? Like, how is the organization functioning? Yeah. Where, just what is the paperwork? And like, truly, what what are the schedules? How many people are working? Like, I just, all of those things.
00:30:22
Speaker
Right. Like who's keeping track? Like who's making sure that someone's like who's in charge of continuity, making sure that someone's in the right suit when you're filming one scene, like half of it one day, another half, like three days from now. Like who's keeping track of that? And there's a lot of things that evolved, I want to say, from an ignorant place because I don't know this history.
00:30:47
Speaker
They seem like they evolved from a pretty practical place of like, okay, in theater, we need somebody to track where this person is going to get offst stage and I need to hand them a veil. I need to do this. I need to rip this thing off of them and put this thing on them.
00:31:02
Speaker
And sometimes it could have been other actors doing it. Sometimes it would just be people doing it themselves and like, and I really like a hacky kind of way but needs presented themselves. So solutions had to evolve somehow. And like, there are,
00:31:17
Speaker
certain things that you can look at in film, even though we work in theater and go, oh yeah, that makes sense. The same in reverse where it's like, this is a need. Somebody needs a pair of pants. Somebody needs to be there to get them a pair of pants. ah This scene calls for a bloody pair of pants. Somebody needs to give them a bloody pair of pants.
00:31:35
Speaker
And so it's just like, what was that wild scene like? to lead to costume and wardrobe departments as they are today that are still can be kind of hectic, you know, um but have like a lot of, oh yeah, this is what we do. This is how we track it. This is what we do here. This is what we do there.
00:32:00
Speaker
blah, blah, blah. Just saying the same thing over again. Right. I know. And it's like, but you do wonder, you know, like, is there, because some places certainly that, you know, we've been or worked, there's like the person who's sort of like the historian of the organization and just seems to remember everything and knows like they could look at,
00:32:24
Speaker
a pair of pants and be like, oh, that was made for this show. And then we used it again over here and it's actually in storage over here on this rack. And like,
00:32:37
Speaker
They just know that but like nobody else has that knowledge because it's not written down anywhere. Yeah. And I mean, there's, there's people who do that today and have like, we've talked about it before. There's a blog that I'm never going to remember the name of it, but um it's like people will,
00:32:55
Speaker
just have this ability with their brain to be a library of information and retain that information. Like when I watch, um, uh, production, a film, whatever, a TV show, and I see costumes that I like the ones that leave the biggest impression on me, it's because I've had some sort of a connection to it. So of course I'll remember,
00:33:18
Speaker
major features of it or I'll just like have a tab in my brain that says, hey, remember this project, this thing existed and you really liked it. But I might not be able to like pull that visually out of my head at the moment. I'll have to look for ah reference imagery or watch the the thing again, um to be like, yes, that thing, that jacket was just so mind blowing. I'm intoxicated.
00:33:41
Speaker
But like, there are folks who will watch things who are those kinds of historians who have that capability, who will be like, I was watching the 1931 Frankenstein. And I noticed that Elizabeth's dress looked real familiar, or like this part of her wedding veil looked real familiar.
00:33:56
Speaker
Ba bam, it's because it was worn again in 1942s, this, that, the other thing. And then In 1962, it makes a reappearance in ah in a flashback. you know like Right. Except they cut it up and dyed it and changed it. And you're like, how do you know this is the same thing?
00:34:10
Speaker
How you know this? Where did you get that information unless you actually work like at the rental place and maybe that rental warehouse house? has those kinds of records and you could access that. But aside from that, like I was dismayed and we've talked about this before as well. I was, I'm dismayed. Isn't even the right word, aghast, agog to find out that a lot of, even today, a lot of studios,
00:34:35
Speaker
do not have archives of their costumes. They don't take care of their costumes. And the fact that it was so bad over time that people were just chucking famous costumes into the trash, not even selling them, not even yeah like putting them in thrift shops, auctioning. just crash Just throwing them away. like The waste alone is bonkers.
00:35:00
Speaker
But the fact that like watching studios... in real time um monetize every part of a production.
00:35:14
Speaker
is like crazy because now they realize that they can auction, you know, Marilyn Monroe's dress from this project and like whatever year for millions of dollars. And before it was in a ball in the back room of something and it was damp and somebody had to like reconstruct three quarters of it, you know, like it's just insane. And so...
00:35:37
Speaker
To pull it back to Frankenstein, 1931. Oh, yes. Frankenstein. what That fellow. That guy. What are some costume moments that like really impacted or stood out to you?
Iconic Platform Shoes of Frankenstein's Monster
00:35:52
Speaker
um i well i i want to throw in like the trivia that I read about his shoes, the monster shoes, um because that is something that get it became... i mean, everything about what he wears as a monster became like the standard of what Frankenstein's monster is supposed to look like.
00:36:18
Speaker
um But I really liked the fact that the shoes were actual work boots of the time that construction workers used when they were laying down hot asphalt and they could walk on it because the soles of the shoes were like extra thick to protect their feet from the hot asphalt.
00:36:36
Speaker
And I just thought that was like a really fun way of using something that already like exists in a completely different context and making it part of like this monster costume. Because now when you see like a Frankenstein costume, it always caught like part of it is having like platform shoes.
00:36:56
Speaker
And so it's kind of funny to know that they like weren't. created for the film that they were something that you could just buy from reality yeah so awesome it's even better for the movie taking place in modern day at the time because it's like yeah victor would be stealing clothes from all over the place and the dead bodies and like why wouldn't he be applying those things to his creation right and like the um this especially the way that like this yeah the jacket like does the jacket it doesn't fit and it's like such a it's such like a shortcut i mean it's not a shortcut because obviously there's work involved in like making sure that it does fit in certain ways but it's such a shortcut to the audience to explain how big the monster is yeah and like to to let your like animal brain be like whoa that's
00:37:50
Speaker
He's going to pop out of his jacket and eat me. I also, i mean, like, I don't, I loved everything that Elizabeth wore.
00:38:01
Speaker
um It's so funny as someone who like, didn't like old movies as a kid. i just was really obsessed with these like glamorous,
00:38:15
Speaker
Outfits of this time period. And i don't really ah know where that comes from because I wasn't like watching all of these movies as like a young kid, but everything that she wears is just so like glamorous and beautiful and so contemporary, like so early 1930s. Like there's no mistaking it.
00:38:38
Speaker
Yeah. um It was just like, I mean, her like wedding dress, the veil in particular is insane with like a 20 foot train. It's so beautiful. Yeah, it is a real statement. And it's like, those are, I want to see them in color.
00:38:56
Speaker
like um A slight step backwards from like the svelte swishiness of Elizabeth costumes back to Boris Karloff.
00:39:07
Speaker
yeah The makeup designer was Jack P. Pierce and Boris Karloff's makeup took four hours a day to be applied and this was being filmed in the summer and his costume weighed 48 pounds forty- eightight pounds Thank you, Trivia IMDb.
00:39:26
Speaker
48 pounds. I assume like half of that is those shoes. Like it's gotta to be. Because, oh, well it says here they were 13 pounds each. Oh my God. That's crazy. 26 pounds.
00:39:41
Speaker
That's so, that would be like walking through like quicksand as an actor. Walking through quicksand while also being weighed down from above while wearing makeup that could not have been good for you.
00:39:52
Speaker
oh absolutely not there's no way would have clogged every single pore with just poison like absolutely terrible i wonder what the bolts were made of like i wonder what that material was because it's got to be something that you can like glue onto the skin yeah i don't know it's just pretty pretty incredible for like whipping this out in 1931 and being like, here's a monster and being so unique.
00:40:24
Speaker
And then having yeah everybody be grounded in 1931 reality but this like dream Austria Bavaria situation.
00:40:37
Speaker
and Like, okay, there's a costume that that hit both of us right between the eyes. And it was Victor's wedding jodhpurs.
00:40:48
Speaker
Oh my God. yeah we did we did have a moment before we started recording where we were like, the jodhpurs, the jodhpurs. Like, yes, agreed. change now did he change into them when he had to go pursue the monster on the wedding day, because he's in like a cutaway coat, and,
00:41:12
Speaker
For his actual like wedding attire. He's in like a traditional old school groom like cutaway coat. I feel like he had to change. Because like a lot of traditional weddings have that whole... like You have your wedding outfit.
00:41:29
Speaker
You might have a reception outfit. And the reception outfit can also be your leaving outfit. And it seemed like he was like, the monster's here. Which, by the way, that... That reveal was bunk hairs of like, the monster's here. but way wow It sounded like somebody's stomach behind the camera. And then he's like, the monster's in the basement.
00:41:52
Speaker
i and He knew. he knew. We shifted. He's changed clothing. He's like, I've got to put on my getaway gear for my getaway sticks. And it's just like, oh my God.
00:42:04
Speaker
Highlighting those little leggies. Yeah.
00:42:08
Speaker
But see, that's the thing is like, that is his sporting suit. That is his action suit. It's still a suit at the end of the day. Like there's a jacket, there's a tie, there's a button up shirt. like And it's just like, I love that he's not like, I got to take off this, ah this wedding stuff, get the tie off my neck and just run around in my shirt sleeves.
00:42:28
Speaker
Why would I do that? I'm no basic bitch. Put me in my getaway gear, my hunting outfit. You're a gentleman at the end of the day. My God. It's just so like, just a word for it is fabulous. It's just that he's like, I need to have the right outfit for every part of my monster building.
00:42:49
Speaker
That is what separates us from the monsters is our ability to dress to the occasion. that is just love it that he's like, I'm in my basement and I'm working the dead.
00:43:01
Speaker
I have my my lab coat. Okay. I'm getting married. I have my cutaway. I'm looking fancy, snazzy. And now I have run around in the dark. Okay.
00:43:13
Speaker
fight my monster child. and need a good outfit for that, but it needs a tie. Which tie am I going with? I can't do that. That's, that clashes. yeah How long do you think it took him to change outfits when he could have been chasing the monster? I mean, I feel like no matter what the number is, it's too long. It's just too long.
00:43:33
Speaker
It's like today. and we'll be able to find out because there is the the new Frankenstein that's going to be coming out. I mean, I feel like there's one like every six months. But there's the one with Oscar. Yeah, there's multiple things, Frankenstein things coming out in the next like year. And there it's it's just a property that just keeps on giving forever and ever.
00:43:53
Speaker
But the one that's coming out in the fall with Oscar Isaac, that's a Guillermo del Toro. I feel like we're going to see ah very raggedy, because that's the thing, is that you also usually see a raggedy Victor Frankenstein. You see his mental state reflected in how he's dressing himself.
00:44:11
Speaker
You don't really, at least in the things that I've seen that character used for, which are also admittedly like open properties where like he's been lifted from the property and put somewhere else.
00:44:22
Speaker
But you usually see him kind of like crazy, like losing it. You don't see him performing gentlemanness or gentleman behavior.
00:44:33
Speaker
He's like wearing more more work level clothes because his his fascination and his obsession is tearing him apart. And that's the only place he wants to be is in the lab. So I think that was another thing that just like threw me for a loop is that this Victor is like, but fashion. Yeah. Excuse you, it's cocktail hour. I should be wearing a different ah set of trousers. i can't be out here.
00:44:56
Speaker
ah I kind of like this version better in that way. I love this version because he's just like, what do you mean? Don't be ridiculous. And also, like, I mean, the through line for me throughout this movie is like, Elizabeth, leave him. Like, dump your boyfriend is like the refrain. And I'm like, okay, but like he is...
00:45:18
Speaker
really put together. so Because it's like, you got to have something to latch on to. Like, why is she staying with this horrible man? It's like, but he does look great. He's still bathing. He's fine. His hair is put together. He's fine.
00:45:31
Speaker
But it's like from from the get-go when she's like, he's crazy. He won't open the door. was like, then let him. Yes. Let him. He won't pick up the phone. Okay. That's fine. Like he is giving you a clear sign. Yeah. And maybe you shouldn't. I mean, you, you get the vibes from him. He seems like he only talks about one thing and that's becoming God. So I don't know, maybe just hear it and let it go.
00:45:55
Speaker
Like your friend, your friend, Victor seemed lot more interested in like what was going on with her. Oh, yeah. Like just go hang out with him. Are you okay? He seems like a sweet dude.
00:46:06
Speaker
And if he's not interested in you, stay friends. But like know the ones that are for you. And it feels like this crazy doctor might not want to be for you. Also, I found it interesting that in the book, Dr. Frankenstein is Dr. Victor Frankenstein. And they changed his name for this. But then they made the friend named Victor.
00:46:26
Speaker
i'm like, you could have picked any name. i think that I'm aiding to the confusion because I'm still just calling him Victor. He's not Victor in this. He's fucking Henry. Definitely Henry. But I'm like, then Why would you not pick ah just a different name for the friend? Like, I feel like that's needlessly confusing. It's bonkers. It's a strange choice. It's just like, well, we can be referential.
00:46:49
Speaker
Okay, maybe not that referential. Name the son Victor that you're all crowing about at the end. And maybe another son to carry on the Frankenstein name. Maybe we let that go too.
00:47:00
Speaker
like I mean, oh i did love the the Baron and his little smoking jacket with his little hat with the tassel. That was so fabulous. I loved it so much.
00:47:13
Speaker
i mean, these little details that probably seemed so regular. you know, for the time. and now it's just like, because again, you're dressing if you're at a certain class, especially, but even if you're like a little bit lower class, there were slightly different rules of like dressing than there are now. Cause we are so so casual in the West, like, yeah and we just keep getting more and more casual every day.
00:47:39
Speaker
But yeah, like going to the movie and being like, well, of course he'd have his little smoking jacket. Why wouldn't he? His head might get cold. He's smoking. What do you want him to wear? needs to have the the jacket and the hat.
00:47:51
Speaker
What is he, a basic man? wondered Because like I feel like there was a really strong push...
Glamorous Costumes as Escapism?
00:47:58
Speaker
during the Great Depression to have these like glamorous films as like a form of escapism for people that were in like desperate like levels of poverty.
00:48:07
Speaker
And I wonder if that influenced the costumes in this movie because it was sort of like, becomes like... Well, we have to see some fabulous clothes. We have to kind of project this fantasy image that people are not experiencing in real life. I don't know. would be interested to know if that influenced the sort of level of glamour in the film because it does seem a little different.
00:48:35
Speaker
feel like probably because it gives you more excuse to have like – so May Clark played Elizabeth and – Like she just has the most being done with her hair of that like period.
00:48:47
Speaker
And it's just like, here's something that you might be able to do, even if you're at a different class, if you have this much time in the morning to prepare, maybe you could do this with your hair kind of thing where it's like, there are some slightly like achievable things.
00:49:03
Speaker
fancy ass goals being displayed the eyebrows the eyebrows for sure the makeup but like yeah it's it's very that's a very good question like what was there to kind of leave an impact on people who were struggling in record ways Yeah, because it's like, i mean, to go back to like her wedding gown, I mean, it's this beautiful lace, nineteen the early 1930s, like long, ah like soft gown. But then like the headpiece is this like
00:49:41
Speaker
tight cap on her head and then it turns into a train that's like 20 feet long and it's like cascading around her as she's like pacing around this room like being attacked by the monster and it was just sort of like you didn't have to have a 20 foot train for that scene she has to like pick it up and like bundle it in her arms to run away from the monster like it would have been easier to not have that but like they did choose to have it they did make that choice like even though Henry Frankenstein's father is a baron.
00:50:14
Speaker
Like, it doesn't, they don't really feel for the most part from now, like from today's point of view, they don't really feel like landed gentry. They feel like like Hollywood level of actor wealth for the, you know, like, and so, yeah, pumping up that gown so high, we could have had a slightly scaled down veil. We could have had all that and still communicated and that she's like marrying into this, this family.
00:50:48
Speaker
they really went for it, but they went for it. It also kind of feels a little bit like with a budget. I don't know how to describe that, but it feels like, you know, not like excessive jewelry. And it's like, part of that is like, you know, could also be explained to the times and answering that question of like, what part of this was aimed at the audience and like showing a certain level, but not going too far and not being like gross about it, but being like aspirational.
00:51:14
Speaker
um because we also didn't necessarily have like a bunch of rhinestones or glass or beads that like caught the light which is definitely a thing that was featured in black and white film because it made it visually interesting it's it's much more sedate texturally than it could have been and so yeah it seems like a little bit of that is at play and if it's not then I like that we made it up I mean, yeah we're just like doing everyone a favor by like giving them the reason behind the choices that they made almost 100 years ago.
00:51:47
Speaker
And we didn't mention it because we went past it real fast, but Frankenstein kills a little girl and then just like walks off into the bushes. i mean, he he didn't know what he was doing until it was too late.
00:51:58
Speaker
For some reason in my mind, i thought there was like a little bit more graphic like mutilation of her body. I don't know why i thought that. What am I thinking of? Well, I think it's because like this was ah pre-Hays Code. Yeah. And I think that Hays Code like affected this, right? It was like Hays Code.
00:52:15
Speaker
Yeah. um And that that scene as it was. was very controversial. And so for the time, i think it would have been really horrific.
00:52:28
Speaker
would Would they have had something that graphic? I don't think they would have with a child. I think they wouldn't have. So I don't know where that idea popped into my head. I need to like research that and figure out what I'm thinking of that made me misremember that scene so much.
00:52:47
Speaker
Apparently, think I read that after the... Because we're pretty close to when the Hays Code is going to be put into effect. And so um obviously there's like screenings of this movie after the code is in place. And I think it said that they edited that scene so that you didn't actually even see him throwing her in the water.
00:53:07
Speaker
Because it was like too much. Too much. Yeah. Which I mean, like, yeah, it is creepy. um But it's so tame compared to like, the shit that people put in movies now that I was like, how quaint, like, which is not good. Like, I don't think that that's a good thing.
00:53:25
Speaker
oh Yeah, we've been exposed to some pretty fucked up shit through the real life and through cinema. Yeah, it's actually a big complaint I have about a lot of modern cinema that I'm like, it is so bloody and graphic to a point where I'm like, I don't think this is actually scary. It's just disgusting.
00:53:42
Speaker
Yeah. And there's there's a name for that. which Yeah, there's a name for that. But um I mean, yeah, Anything else you want to talk about with Frankenstein 31?
00:53:54
Speaker
a If anyone is curious to go back to our episode of Just Imagine, we learned in that movie that the ah the set of reanimating a frozen guy or whatever from the past was reused in this movie. But it seems like it's kind of rearranged and repurposed. It's lit differently. Yeah. it looks Yeah, looks different, but apparently it's the same equipment. That was kind like, just in case anyone wants to listen to do that episode.
00:54:25
Speaker
And if anybody wants to watch that movie, best of luck. And I was thinking about Just Imagine from like minute one of this movie. I was like, here we are. We're back on the same soundstage. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it.
00:54:42
Speaker
Oh, another thing that is like not particularly relevant, but... um I think I've said in the past there's so many things that I did not know were references because I encountered them for the first time in The Simpsons. And um the guy that comes out like before the movie starts and does the pre-movie speech in front of the curtain like warning you basically like don't watch this movie – They did an homage to that in one of the early Simpsons treehouse of horror, where Marge comes out in front of a red curtain before the episode starts and asks people not to watch the episode because it's going to be too scary. And i had no idea that that was a reference to Frankenstein. and
00:55:29
Speaker
um when I watched this movie today, I was watching it with Jonathan, who's also like a big Simpsons person and So we were trying to figure out if that was something that happened in any other horror movies or if it's just this one and it's a direct reference in The Simpsons and it seems like it's just this one where they had that pre-show thing.
00:55:50
Speaker
also love that that conceit kind of like never gets old because it's the same thing with like was it like Masterpiece Theater where you had someone sitting in a cozy reading chair near a fire with like a giant book opened and then this slow pan is like, oh, hello. wow yeah think i have a message for you about what you're about to watch it's like oh you're talking to me and i wonder if this maybe started that maybe i don't know because in a way maybe not sure yeah it'd be interesting to know like where the idea came from yeah i don't think i have any other i don't have any other like
00:56:32
Speaker
big notes other than yeah like when they do the reanimation scene um obviously you know that it's sciencey because it has a lot of things that have lights it has things with levers it has gauges it has things that go drip drip drip like that's how you know that science is happening Somebody's hair is standing straight up. So you for sure know science is going on Absolutely. Apparently this film is where the idea that he's reanimated with lightning comes from. It's not in the book. Yeah.
00:57:02
Speaker
Okay.
Origin of Lightning Reanimation
00:57:03
Speaker
that I've never read the book. I have never even tried. I've seen things. Yeah. I think I started reading the book in high school and then I put it down and walked away and it's been 20 years. So I never finished it.
00:57:14
Speaker
And I can admit that. But like I've seen things that, ah versions of of the story of Frankenstein that are attempting to be more grounded in the era that it's supposed to take place and like yeah technology and all that stuff.
00:57:29
Speaker
And since it's all basically magic anyway, like doing it differently. And um yeah, this is, I'm glad that I saw this. Like I wouldn't watch this on my own because I'm a baby who gets really distracted.
00:57:45
Speaker
But yeah, I'm glad that I did because it was, it was a shock to my system to see what I always think of as a Victorian story happening in 1930, in the 1930s, late 1920s.
00:57:58
Speaker
And um that's just like such a a neat way to see it. And I'm very glad for our like mini season that we're doing, that we're going to be seeing Frankenstein in a bunch of different versions in different years all over the place.
00:58:11
Speaker
So yeah. I mean, I'd recommend it if anybody's interested in film history, in like American film history. I think put it on. um ah i think a lot of it will be familiar just because it has been redone and like paid homage to so many times. that It's kind of like even watching it for the first time, you kind of know what's going to happen and what it's going to look like.
00:58:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's really interesting having something that you know that well, where it's the design that's going to surprise you, not the content. Not really. Because like, yes, there there will be different versions that take slightly different paths. But like, you get it a reanimated like body cobbled together from many bodies.
00:59:00
Speaker
We get it. ah dr dr frankenstein what i think that he's a classic one of those characters where you're like you got you have intellectual knowledge but you have no emotional understanding it's basically ah grown-up incel yeah just instead of having a chip on his shoulder about people who aren't like him. he just doesn't think about them at all.
00:59:32
Speaker
no He wants to create a different ah different type of person completely. And that's the only kind of person that he can think about. Absolutely. i do think that there is no way that like Dr. Frankenstein could only be a man if that makes sense. Like only a man would do this. Which is so funny because later on in this little season, we're going to see a different a different answer to that this movie this version yes this version this interpretation of the story could only be Henry we Dr. Henry Frankenstein Henry oh my god
01:00:18
Speaker
Oh my god. Okay, so where are we going next? What is our next movie that we're going to be? Next up, we're going to watch a movie that I also haven't seen until now. So we're going to be seeing Young Frankenstein, the movie of like comedy legend Mel Brooks, and just like really, I'm i'm ready. black and white But I feel like this one isn't going to make make my brain feel like it's oozing outside of my ears. So I'm ready.
01:00:50
Speaker
Yeah. I think you'll have a better time with that one. um I've seen it a few times for sure. um I think, I guess technically I saw this first since I watched it in sixth grade math class and I didn't see young Frankenstein, I think until I was a teenager, but I've seen it a few times over the years. And,
01:01:12
Speaker
ah There is also ah a stage, like Broadway musical version of Young Frankenstein, which I have not seen, but I know a little bit of the music from working at a school where sometimes the students would perform a couple of the songs.
01:01:30
Speaker
So... um Yeah, I'm excited to to hear what you think of that one. i think that that it's an interesting next step because it is such a parody of this movie in a lot of ways. so But it's kind of amazing because what that movie came out in like the seventy s there were so many Frankenstein movies already at that point.
01:01:58
Speaker
so Yeah, it was already like so culturally, like, it just like changed, like film, just, it had a big impact. It's not like it changed the world. But it was like, there's a reason why we refer to this as iconic is because it is like, you could be any, probably like almost anywhere in the world. And you could show somebody a picture of like a greenish,
01:02:23
Speaker
flat headed Frankenstein's monster with giant stitches and bolts and big boots and a short jacket. And they'd know what that is. Absolutely. And that's, that's, that's impact.
01:02:37
Speaker
That is. And that um that's design. that's um That's character creation from the ground up because they're not basing it on the book. like that' That's why we do this because those design choices create the character. And then like at a certain point, it could ah be any number of people in the costume, but like the costume leads...
01:03:08
Speaker
Like, it became bigger yeah than Boris Karloff quite quickly. And people are known for their version of this thing because it's supported characters so strongly.
01:03:23
Speaker
And so I love that when we first, before we hit record, we were like, well, this will probably bit...
01:03:32
Speaker
ah that much it's such a quick movie it's an hour and nine minutes and most of that is like like the nine minutes is intro and outro and so it's like it's really not that long of a movie um but yeah we've we hit on some stuff because this era of filmmaking has so many blank spots in our knowledge totally and i think it's um i I mean, i think it's a great little project. We probably could have done an entire full season length on this character because there are so many versions. But I think it's fun to just kind of skip around and like dip our toes in and not get like too overwhelmed by Frankenstein. I also think that if we had made a full real season, we would have walked out like Henry Frankenstein at the end. Yeah.
01:04:24
Speaker
nuts but fashionable but not oh yeah that would be i think it would be too much to do an entire season on one character ah even though they're you know there's like i mean i think that we have a great selection where it's like serious comedy different versions of the character like i think it's a great little ah little ah a little taster A little tapas.
01:04:51
Speaker
little
01:04:53
Speaker
Character tapas. Leaves you wanting more. yeah and now you'll become a Frankenstein fiend. Just throw that down into eternity.
01:05:05
Speaker
And I dare you to to to watch this movie and not want to talk in that like transatlantic space. ish accent for like at least 10 minutes absolutely could you pass me that glass of water i'm so thirsty thank you now now listen here you just need to calm down now listen here it's ridiculous Well, thank you for listening and we will see you on the next episode, which will be a slightly different vibe and a little bit longer of a film.
01:05:38
Speaker
A little vibe and just a little reminder. We said at the beginning, but it'll be two weeks until that episode comes out, but it is coming. So it'll be a little bit more spaced out than our normal stuff. um But, you know, in the meantime, like watch some...
01:05:54
Speaker
ah Some like of the weird like 50s and 60s like hammer horror Frankensteins if you need a little extra fix in between episodes.
01:06:06
Speaker
Can you imagine someone's like, I need more Frankenstein. Boy, do we have the fix for you. god, losing my mind. That's the right place to be for this series. Yeah.
01:06:18
Speaker
that's the right that's the right place to be for theory
01:06:25
Speaker
Well, that's us, I guess. Oh, that's it. That's all there is. We'll see you next time. by Bye.