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Mirror, Mirror- Jumpscare
22 Plays17 days ago
Friends, this episode is simply unhinged. We are hop, skip, and jumping around this movie and it may or may not be coherent, that's not for us to say. This is Eiko Ishioka's final movie before she passed away so we had to cover it. But it's a weird one, and we decided to get weird. Happy listening HAGS!
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1667353/?ref_=ttmi_ov_bk
https://www.qagoma.qld.gov.au/stories/fairy-tales-behind-the-seams-film-costumes-from-mirror-mirror-at-gallery-of-modern-art-brisbane/
https://www.wired.com/2012/03/the-stunning-costumes-of-mirror-mirror/
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to a new episode with your with your besties, your comfort friends, your wildlings who are maybe going to talk slow like a jazz music station because somebody threw out their back and had an edible today and that's somebody who's this guy and I've got two thumbs.
00:00:43
Speaker
And somebody else insisted cruelly that we record anyway and that was this guy. Yeah.
00:00:52
Speaker
It just, this feels right for this fucking movie. This episode, as labeled, as you will read, is Mirror Mirror from 2012.
Focus on 'Mirror Mirror' and Aiko Ishioka's Legacy
00:01:04
Speaker
This is the Tarsem Singh-Aiko Ishioka matchup, and this is unfortunately...
00:01:10
Speaker
um I go is yoga's last project before she passed away of cancer yeah and RIP in a bunch of different ways. But I i thought I'm introducing this because I'm the a-hole who suggested that we watch this movie.
00:01:26
Speaker
Yeah. I really wanted, because I'm such a fangirl of her work, to kind of like bookend her career. So we did like her first big movie. We did something in the middle of her career and then something at the end of her career.
00:01:40
Speaker
And thats i feel like each of these three movies, Bram Stoker's Dracula, The Fall, and this film, really showcase different strengths of her designs.
00:01:51
Speaker
Because like we've had... Bram Stoker's Dracula lived more in a world that we recognize, but like with fantastical elements that like heighten it. And then we go all the way to here where it's a very heightened fantasy.
00:02:05
Speaker
And there's a lot going on in this guy. And it's kind of cartoony fantasy. It's a very cartoony fantasy. And there's a lot, a lot of color and yeah fabric. There's so much going on in these
Exploration of 'Mirror Mirror' Costume Craftsmanship
00:02:20
Speaker
costumes. Yeah.
00:02:21
Speaker
So that's that's kind of like my my nicest thing that I can say about this movie because I would not recommend it as a watch. I would recommend it as a mutant play 100%.
00:02:33
Speaker
Or a slideshow. ah slideshow. um And what's nice is that you can find some really good imagery out there and you can find some great websites. I want to like preload before we actually start talking about the movie.
00:02:45
Speaker
um I found, I don't know if you um saw this website, Melinda, but um the queen Queensland, I need to look at my notes so I can actually. oh the museum. The Queensland Art Gallery, Gallery yeah Art, has two yes like posts or articles on their website about this. And they're both titled Fairy Tales Behind the Seams of the Costumes for the Film Mirror Mirror.
00:03:08
Speaker
And then fairy tales, the promise of happiness. And on the first one behind the seams, there is like a five minute video from their conservator, ah Michael Morendi, who was preparing costumes for display. And he's talking about some of them and showing um the making of like a hoop skirt to hold up the weight for one of the gowns. And it's just like a nice little video that um is also nice because he spent some time talking about costumes and how people...
00:03:36
Speaker
ah should really pay attention to them more. Oh, interesting. was a nice little thing. Interesting perspective to have. but Lovely. There's a lot about this movie.
00:03:49
Speaker
that I appreciate information-wise because it's there's not like a million articles about it telling you everything, that there are a few. But the most interesting thing that I've noticed about like the IMDb page and other information I found is that these are the most costumers and – makeup crew, makeup department ah that I've ever seen listed on any of the movies that we've done so far. So I counted 93 or 94 names under the costume and wardrobe department and 49 in the makeup. And I was like, yeah.
00:04:20
Speaker
Hell yes. Because it's like every movie that we've done, those people are there, but we don't know who they are. so it's like, don't know we know who they are. and in ah in addition, there were a couple other articles. I think there's one from Wired.com. I read that one too.
00:04:38
Speaker
It was a good one. And they talked about some of the costume studios that built the costumes. So there's New York's Tricorn costumes, Jennifer Love costumes, and Corelli costumes and Eric Winterling costumes.
00:04:51
Speaker
And then lot of the other- I've been in most of those studios. That's so cool. So that was like, as like an intern who was literally like standing there holding a bag. Like I was not, you know, like I don't want to over, over like, but you know, over- But I've been inside most of those places and like handed a bag to someone and had them go, who are you?
00:05:15
Speaker
And it was great. It was wonderful. and there was also a listing of like, Aiko Ishioka apparently had a Montreal shop that – where local costumers came and worked on the rest of the costumes.
00:05:29
Speaker
There was a ah listing on this, I think it was this article, or it was the Queensland Art Gallery one, either or, where, and I'm saying this and I'm not really trying to fix it because I'm high.
00:05:41
Speaker
So sorry, Andrew. Welcome. Hello. You can edit that out if you want, whatever. But I'm not going to go back and try to verify. But I copy pasted this um quote.
00:05:52
Speaker
Aiko Ishioka led the creation of more than 400 costumes, as well as the acquisition and altering of another 600 costumes. hundred The spectacular handmade gowns that Snow White and the Evil Queen wear required as much as 35 yards of fabric
Plot Analysis and Character Dynamics
00:06:12
Speaker
each. The Evil Queen's massive wedding gown weighs more than 60 pounds and caused Julia Roberts to pull a thigh muscle when turning too quickly in it. And that dress actually features heavily in that little five-minute video.
00:06:26
Speaker
Yes. Because... um the conservator is actually able to like handle it and show you some of the construction of the bodice and the skirt, which is pretty great stuff. um But ah the Eric Winterling site does have a nice little slideshow of some closeups of their work.
00:06:43
Speaker
oh amazing me So I highly recommend that because they're very clear, very lovely. And they also include the rendering and like a closeup of a sample of the fabric, like a picture. Yeah. So thank you, website. okay um Okay. So real quick, let's, let's read the one sentence IMDB synopsis for this. Oh my, I can't wait to hear what that says. cannot wait to hear what the plot of this movie is An evil queen steals control of the kingdom and an exiled princess enlists the help of seven resourceful rebels to win back her birthright.
00:07:21
Speaker
Okay. and Yes. Yeah. Now what that synopsis doesn't say, and I think that's okay that it doesn't say it, but it's also like, come on, because it doesn't really have to do with the plot of the movie. It just has to do with the reality of the movie.
00:07:35
Speaker
Is that this movie is like watching the episode of the dating game with that serial killer in it after knowing who he was. God. It really, really is.
00:07:48
Speaker
That's strange. I also feel like somebody in Hollywood really like tried to make us accept this man as like a leading man. And I don't feel like anyone in the public was like, yes, we like him and we want him to be a movie star. Yeah,
00:08:07
Speaker
like pushing him on us as the public and i don't know single person that was like oh i'm so sad i can't enjoy this man's movies anymore as a member of the public yeah it's very much like a okay moving like who oh that guy okay Yeah, it's really weird.
00:08:34
Speaker
And what's nice is that we can get that out of the way. That is the man army hammer. And um because this is a costume podcast, specifically, we can say goodbye, don't want to talk about you. And in addition, your costumes weren't that exciting. So we don't have to talk about you.
00:08:51
Speaker
I feel like that's kind of a theme yeah some of the episodes that we've done, which I'm like, I know we both love like good menswear. I know that about us. But some of the men in these movies, I'm like, you're they're just there sir, you are simply not interesting.
00:09:09
Speaker
and there are other fellows in this movie who are fun to talk about. And I'm going to name two of them right now. And in addition... a lady who we recognize from film history.
00:09:21
Speaker
Nathan Lane, Michael Lerner, and Mare Winningham are acting for Jesus in this movie. I feel like between the three of them and the actors who were cast as the dwarves, all of these folks are holding this movie up.
00:09:38
Speaker
yeah And it's it's all on them. whole It's all in their hands. And they are all doing everything they can with what they were given. And Mare Winningham...
00:09:50
Speaker
has some very interesting things going on. And one of those things is an accent that is really fighting for its life. Julia Roberts has an accent that is very reminiscent of Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.
00:10:05
Speaker
when um What's his bucket who stars in that movie started out with an English accent. And by the end, he's just giving it up. It's very similar. We're just going to slowly ratchet this down in every scene until we just kind of forget. It's like Elizabeth Olsen as Wanda Maximoff in maxima for me Marvel movies where it's like, we're just going to kind of hope that you forget that we were doing that.
00:10:30
Speaker
Wavy hand. Don't think about i never heard it before. This is a movie that truly exists just for some of the costumes to walk around in. Because... 1000%.
00:10:41
Speaker
one thousand percent I cannot ah cannot really go be like, ah, the story. I can't really be like, ah, the performances. No. Yeah. I mean, okay, so like I watched this movie like and maybe like eight hours ago and I'm already like, okay, so wait, then there was the section where there was like a montage and she'd be like Lily Collins became like a sword fighter. okay And then I'm like, okay. And then there was like this section where everybody was on a frozen lake and the servants were ice skating. And how is this one movie? Like what?
00:11:24
Speaker
And then don't forget the last like six minutes of the movie where Sean Bean arrives. And he has been bewitched to be this like...
00:11:38
Speaker
Oh my God. They spent so much time in this movie talking about this beast. And I was like, it was like the last, like you said, like six minutes of the movie. And I was like, Oh yeah, that never went anywhere.
00:11:52
Speaker
which and then it's, which, okay. Also at the, okay. I'm sorry. At the very beginning. When we don't know what's happening, we're in like prologue, voiceover, Julia Robertson. When we're in the puppetry p prologue, which was a thing at this point and i think it was before that. before that, maybe.
00:12:07
Speaker
There's an image where... there's an image where There's like a glass case with a pink flower inside. that's And I was like, I'm sorry. I thought this movie was based on Snow White. Why is Beauty and the Beast happening right now?
00:12:25
Speaker
And then they kept talking about the beast. And I was like, what is happening?
Critique of Film's Climax and Ending
00:12:30
Speaker
And then at one point when Lily Collins like loses her smaun head and it lands on the ground, I was like, this could not be more Cinderella. like I am so confused. Why? story am I in? I'm in here.
00:12:45
Speaker
Because I just love that you could say that. Collins loses her sweat.
00:12:59
Speaker
I prefer if we can explain what that is for people that haven't seen it. I was like debating in my, do I want to say what that's referring to? I don't think I do. everybody who's going to have to fight for their survival in this episode, you're welcome in advance.
00:13:15
Speaker
So the last six minutes, the beast it's revealed is Lily Collins's father. And I just want to give you a little taste of the acting.
00:13:27
Speaker
There's this like CG beast who's being forced to like fight Lily Collins who locked away everybody who could help her fight this beast. Because of feminism, okay, Ariel? Because of feminism.
00:13:40
Speaker
I'm going to lose my fucking mind at this representation of feminism. And she just looks into this beast's eyes and it emotes at her. And she goes, wait a minute. And she doesn't stab it. She cuts off the necklace and...
00:13:53
Speaker
reverse sean bean he doesn't die he comes to life and it's really really giving the end of super mario brothers this is like my favorite chunk of the movie because then we hard cut from this snowy night fight where the the The dwarves have been passing along a knife.
00:14:21
Speaker
Pass this to snow. Pass this to snow. passes This should to snow. It's like this. but what Where the energy? Where is the urgency? What's happening here?
00:14:33
Speaker
hard wedding. Wow. And it's Sean Bean's face. So it's Sean Bean at night, hard cut to Sean Bean in the day. This man has been imprisoned for years in the body of a mythological beast.
00:14:46
Speaker
And he's just come back. And he's literally fine. He says, how can I repay you before the hard cut? And like everybody says something they would like. And then um Half Pint says, a girlfriend. Okay, cool. So you're asking for a woman to be given to you.
00:15:02
Speaker
i The prince says there's only one thing I could want. Hard cut to the king giving him hurt his daughter. but which you're like okay so like what is the difference between you and half pint like i'm sorry and this why is this like endearing and then he like the serial killer leans in and he says do i still have to say please before they kiss each other and i was like oh my god and then at the very end of this film we you said we have the yearbook pictures and
00:15:32
Speaker
The dwarf superlatives. And then we got the credit song. We got to the credit song, which is like an auto... What's the word that I'm thinking? Autotuned.
00:15:46
Speaker
Autotuned. It was really... A Bollywood number. Have you listened to any of the like original like early 2000s Paris Hilton album? Okay, exactly what you're talking about. The vocals were kind of...
00:16:01
Speaker
yeah giving that or like um there's a really good SNL sketch where they do like the real housewives of Disney and they're all like dressed as the princesses
Aiko Ishioka's Inspirations and Costume Design Philosophy
00:16:11
Speaker
and can't think of her name but she's she's playing Belle and she's her song be our guest be our guest diamonds Versace be our guest should be our guest laughter laughter This episode is so insane and I'm not going to try to reel it in. And thank you, anybody who's listening to this. We will absolutely get into the costumes, but we have to vent about this first.
00:16:41
Speaker
It's – I truly – it's a mute and mute and just zoot it because it's just insane. Okay. So where to even, like, pull ourselves in?
00:16:54
Speaker
Okay. you Let's go to menswear real quick. Okay. We'll take a little – Yeah. That'll be our appetizer. Delicate segue. Listen, – My back went out.
00:17:06
Speaker
I had an edible and some pain medication. took a nap. And I woke up after a 45-minute nap. And that's when everything like a hit. And that's when I watched this movie. Honestly, I'm jealous of that experience. Because I watched this at like 10 a.m. Just...
00:17:26
Speaker
but Just struggling to not pick up my phone. Yeah. I was struggling so hard. But yeah, it really did. I was able to like keep my eyes on it for a decent amount of time, which is crazy. That's good.
00:17:38
Speaker
okay Okay. So I feel like the way that we have to talk about this is maybe like a popcorn style of like what were costumes that we enjoyed and just yeah go back and forth so i do want to because i feel like this is a very easy one for me to skip over the menswear because there's so many like gowns to talk about yeah um that i want to talk about briefly nathan lane and michael lerner play respectively great great what characters are they it's brighton and the baron i think
00:18:12
Speaker
Yeah, sounds right. Close enough. Won't be confirming that. Yes. I briefly looked at it. So Nathan Lane is Brighton and he's like...
00:18:25
Speaker
the the butler role essentially. But for some reason, and this is where I wish that we had, like, I don't know if like on the DVD release or whatever, there's like ah an appendices that goes into depth about these things. I i don't know.
00:18:42
Speaker
yeah But this is where I want more information from the design team or the design the designer about their inspirations, because it feels like Nathan Lane is cogsworth
00:19:03
Speaker
again fairy tale are you watching here also he not play cogsworth at some point and if not why didn't he let let me look it up nathan lane He's literally in like a chocolate brown frock coat that has like doesn't conform to the laws of physics that you and i have to live in His frock coat.
00:19:28
Speaker
feels like it has a bustle because it has this curved like crescent curve yeah half moon curve hem that is very dramatic and that it has a support underneath it to push it away from his body and there's a lot of bustles going on in this and so it's just like what's going on so like how nathan lane played timon but sure But like spiritually he did.
00:20:04
Speaker
Yep.
00:20:07
Speaker
No more words. I'm kind of hearing the animated Cogsworth voice in my head and it is I believe it is not him. But like spiritually it is him. ah to ah slash like who who played Cogsworth in the live action because I chose not to see that movie and every day I continue to choose not to oh you haven't seen that movie i have not seen a single one of the Disney live action remakes and every single day I choose not to watch them Melinda you can choose to edit this out but that actually might be a great
00:20:44
Speaker
a great few episodes. It really might. Because like you didn't see the live action Beauty and the Beast? Nope. Oh, Melinda. oh I sure didn't.
00:20:56
Speaker
we could We could talk about that. We'll see how much of this actually gets taken out and how much just stays in. Because I might just be like, upload! and i just If I run out time, it's going to be like, enjoy! In that case, everybody who's listening, come along. We'll but I am DBing and I'm doing it poorly. okay, show me all the cast and crew.
00:21:18
Speaker
but i i remember Cogsworth. Ian McKellen. Ian McKellen played Cogsworth in a live action and Ewan McGregor played Lumiere. Okay, what?
00:21:32
Speaker
Okay, this supports my position that I have not seen these movies and I feel justified because you cannot have fucking Gandalf playing... like Cogsworth is a Nathan Lane character.
00:21:49
Speaker
sure. This is insane to me. This is a yeah ah reveal bigger than Armie Hammer the Cannibal. Yeah.
00:21:58
Speaker
Yeah. um We, I think that there needs to come a time potentially where you do watch some of these live action movies and we'll talk about it because they are very much here.
00:22:09
Speaker
Okay. So yeah yeah, Nathan Lane is essentially dressed as Cogsworth wig and all. yeah And yeah the, the frock coat is phenomenal for the choices in how,
00:22:24
Speaker
in what parts of it were like emphasized to make it more cartoonish. And I feel like the decision to make that back end of it potentially have that understructure or that just whatever the support is for that dramatic him, it really enforces that he he gets turned into a roach at one point.
00:22:45
Speaker
So it's like inspired by like the road twings against their back a little bit. So it like ties into that. But it also works with the character kind of being like a little bit grovelly.
00:22:58
Speaker
And so it like pushes him forward a little bit. Yeah. So it's like the the drama of it I like how it tied into the character. And there's going to be a character that I will bring up or a costume later that I'll bring up that does the same thing in the reverse because I hate it.
00:23:14
Speaker
The costume is beautiful, but I hate how it ties into the the story of where the character is at. I think I know what you're going to bring up. Oh, I'm so excited to see if we both talk about it the same way.
00:23:25
Speaker
um But Michael Lerner is playing Baron and his costumes. Oh my God. There are some beautiful closeup pictures of the work on this.
00:23:37
Speaker
It is, i the depth in his costume is flipping lovely, lovely. Because like he's got these purples, these blues and like all these different prints that are just like competing with each other, but they're all competing so loudly that they work together.
00:23:59
Speaker
Absolutely. And I like love it. The harmony of like chaos. like Exactly. Making it all work. And it's because they're all tied by tone, I feel. like They're all brought to the same level. So they're not like competing...
00:24:14
Speaker
To that like part of your head that would give you a migraine. I'm yeah very grateful for that. But yeah, he always has this purple that's like pulling him in and every costume that he's wearing.
00:24:25
Speaker
And I, okay, to skip around, but to go to the the wedding on ice. Yes. He's, he's got, so I want to jump there. Oh, yeah. Talk about more people.
00:24:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas I was like just looking. He's still in the purpley tones, right? He's still in the purpley tones. He's got green pants. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. And like there's like this red, but his wig is very reminiscent of the Gary Oldman as Dracula when he's the castle at Bram Stoker. And it just has like a longer rat tail braid.
00:25:02
Speaker
yeah phenomenal but this okay that whole group of that wedding like floored me because it was yeah so different than anything else that we had seen in the movie like we were in a completely new color and like african wax prince language that i was just like what it's all african wax prince they're And they're all different skirt widths, shapes, like different bodices, different wigs, like everything has color. Everything has color. And it's not. And like up until this point, I felt like the majority of the costumes had like a Rococo inspiration, like starting point. Yeah.
00:25:50
Speaker
yeah And then when we get here, it was like all over the place because like our there's a giant like costume that has this like fun kind of magic moment that is a full on like 19th century bustle gown.
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah. So we're like like ah immediately like 100 years later. yeah Late 19th century. yeah Regency. And then we've got like, yeah, we are all still Rococo. Like, yeah, we're from the 15. We're from like the 1500s on. Cause yeah, there's a lot of Queen Elizabeth going on here for the queen.
00:26:26
Speaker
And like the, the standing collars, not the standing collars, but the collars and the, the, the, well, and mean like the, the dwarves are in like a whole different dimension in terms of what they're wearing. And, but the one that has that, that very like,
00:26:42
Speaker
1500s helmet. The Spanish. Yeah, I can't remember what those are called. But they're so specific. Thank you. And then we have like another dwarf who's like literally a cowboy.
00:26:57
Speaker
okay, I have to say, like, I think more one of... M-O-R-I-O-N? Morio? Sure, Morio? Yeah. Like, every single one of the... 16th century. 16th century, yeah, yeah.
00:27:12
Speaker
Like, every dwarf has a different, like, hat story. And it reminded me... um I don't know. i i don't think that you're a Gilmore Girls freak, if I remember correctly, but i am.
00:27:26
Speaker
yeah um but there's a really, really amazing character in that show that shows up like maybe a couple times that is a stylist. And her whole persona is that like she was like a stylist for like movie stars in like the fifty s and 60s. And yeah.
00:27:41
Speaker
and she has this really amazing line where she talk when she talks about crafting an outfit that I feel like fits with Aiko, where she's like, I always start at the top, the hat.
00:27:52
Speaker
It's the first thing that God sees when you leave the house. And like... I feel like that is so much of like Ico's like design ah because like hats and headwear is so important to her costumes that is so different than a lot of other movies that like just don't use that element at
Wedding Scene Costume Analysis
00:28:15
Speaker
all. Yeah.
00:28:16
Speaker
I think that that's what I really love because like in my own career, i'm you know, at like the very beginning of my career. And so it's like, I am still learning all the parts of design to incorporate from head to toe, because like, it's so easy to focus, to hyper-focus on one part or to be like, well, the camera is just going to see right here. so I'm only really going to care about like this one foot of space in each direction.
00:28:44
Speaker
yeah but that's what makes the designers that stick with us so significant is that they are the ones who are pushing against that and are going like, no, no, no, no. no Let's think about all of it. Cause we really want the world to feel real.
00:28:57
Speaker
And, um, I was reading a different, uh, article that had an interview with Aiko Ishioka. Um, I did not take it down, I think.
00:29:08
Speaker
So sorry, but it's out there, um, where she was talking about the fact that she's not really inspired by fashion. Like she, or she didn't really follow the fashion world. It was more like,
00:29:22
Speaker
being curious about things and pushing herself to be curious about things and then to go as far as she could through that curiosity and not to just look in one direction. Cause a lot of people,
00:29:34
Speaker
want to constrain their understanding of fashion or fashion history by going like, well, this is what was being dictated here. And it's like, okay, but that's not everything everywhere. And so right um I go ah in this movie, it's so fan fantastical and so like cartoonishly fantastical.
00:29:53
Speaker
but you could tell how many different periods of history. And also like, there's, I think some Japanese inspiration as well, like going into this. And so there's just like a lot of scope going in here. And what's, what's nice is that this movie is so bonkers that you're not like, but it's not just one period of history. You kind of don't care. Cause it feels like, Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's a it doesn't fantasy. Yeah. Yeah. And like the wedding scene on the ice is a perfect example of that because it's all this akin oops African wax cloth in these exaggerated shapes that we can recognize as being from different parts of European history. And then
00:30:40
Speaker
If you look closer, you can probably pick out even more. But I had a little bit of a blanket between my brain the movie. So I was not looking as the brain. And I did. And I had like, I didn't have a reason to, but I was just like, I'm really struggling with this movie. Survival.
00:30:56
Speaker
Traumatical. But like using all of the fabrics in that unifies everyone, even though it's like crazy and like overwhelming and like there's so much going on and it's so heightened, even in a movie that's already so heightened that you just are like, yeah, okay, that's what this is. I'm i'm here. Like let's do Yeah. And then, yeah. And then to have,
00:31:23
Speaker
all of that going on. Like we've talked about it so many times to have so much clamoring for your attention, but it's all working together because the color stories are working together so well that it doesn't overwhelm you.
00:31:36
Speaker
And then in the midst of all of those patterns and all of those colors, you have Julia Roberts in this massive wedding gown, which was we saw 60 pounds. And sixty pounds and it is made up of petals the skirt is made up of petals the bodice is made up of petals all of it i believe is silk the sleeves are silk chiffon and the bodice and the skirt are are different silks yes and it is yeah and it's just like that is there there are okay every almost almost every single costume
00:32:15
Speaker
in the royal world that we're looking at has some smocking yeah or some extreme patterning that includes but a massive bodice and skirt being made out of petals, which have to be constructed individually and then put together and then need this like incredible understructure to hold it up.
00:32:38
Speaker
and then so much an embroidery and so much lace and just like eating and lace oh my god yeah and so much like architectural architecture yeah it is such a phenomenal example of all of the things that aiko ishioka could design and like Such an example of how many hands have to come together to construct these items.
00:33:08
Speaker
If you had asked me how many costumes were in this movie, I would not have guessed about a thousand. Me neither. I didn't think it would be as many. And so i I'm just like pretty blown away by that. And I'm wondering how that number was broken down.
00:33:26
Speaker
um Yeah, because I like a like a saw a snippet of an interview where Lily Collins was talking about like her experience with the costumes in the movie. And she rightly points out she has four looks in this movie. Yeah.
00:33:42
Speaker
That's it. And she's, she is the lead character. and like Julia Roberts has more than four, but like, we see some of her looks more than once. Like we see that yellow more than once. hmm.
00:33:57
Speaker
And she she has certain ones for like long periods. And she has her like evil mirror variation. But it's like there are so many specific wigs, so many specific head pieces, so many specific collar pieces that it's like, how are we breaking down these costumes? And yeah like snow Snow did have more than four costumes because she had the costume montage that you mentioned when she's becoming a warrior, which was... I think she's...
00:34:25
Speaker
oh you're right you're right she does have a couple different uh the makeover on i on oh my god i have to say like not to be the most annoying person in the world but her like little black and blue thief look was kind of working for me like there was one that i liked a little bit better and it was more harlequin in my brain which might not even be true but it was one of the ones in the montage and i think it was There was like a jacket involved. I really liked it.
00:34:54
Speaker
it was like a pair of pants that were a little bit like fake skirt out-y than the final look. But yeah, it wasn't a bad look. It was It was cute.
00:35:05
Speaker
and But like all of these pieces that exist in the in the royal sphere have so much going on It's incredible. Yeah, it does it's true. It does make me want to know like is it – actually 1000 is it like are we talking about components coming together that's what i mean is like how does that break down it the components because if it's components then we're including wigs then we're including jewelry and headpieces and so i think it has to be that because like there are scenes with um ensemble like a lot of people but it's not
00:35:47
Speaker
necessarily thousand like The thing about it that I kept be being like, what's going on in this kingdom is Julia Roberts is the evil queen and she's handling a lot of things
Feminist Themes and Design Inspirations
00:36:03
Speaker
personally. like She's manipulating curtains and like doing physical things that I'm like, girl, you're the queen. Isn't there somebody to do that for you?
00:36:13
Speaker
There's not that many people. She does talk about how Yeah, like she talks about how broke she is, which is why she tries to after the serial killer as her guy. And um so, yeah who knows? And also, okay, let's just start naming things.
00:36:27
Speaker
So, the weird golden merman stormtrooper helmets for the palace guards is one of my favorites.
00:36:39
Speaker
because there's there's like this almost stormtrooper dialogue moment when lily collins is leaving the the like she's doing some i think leaving and um they're like you can't go and she's like but i'm going to and they're like oh oh she's going okay she's gonna go and i'm like these are like vacu-formed like helmets.
00:37:03
Speaker
And i there's nothing wrong with that. It's the fact that they they have more movement than you're expecting. So you're getting a little bit more of a hint that these might be much lighter than Yeah, they're not made of metal. And I i loved it.
00:37:20
Speaker
because like Who are you? What is your story? Who came up with the outfits for you guys? And like, i i was just all about it.
00:37:31
Speaker
um I can't i make this like a point A to point B anymore. It has to just be like a handle. I loved the like, I don't know what his name or role was, the companion friend of ah the prince.
00:37:47
Speaker
I love so when mcassssy pants yes when he... when because like there's multiple times where when people get like set upon by the dwarves and a later snow, that they get all their clothes stolen, which is like funny to watch for us because we care about that. um But I loved his reveal when his clothes are stolen that he has like ah like a gentleman's corset and like a little like hip padding.
00:38:14
Speaker
um Because like that is stuff that did actually like exist in history that looks... 100%. Silly to us now because we have... like truly trapped ourselves in these like horrifying gender boxes prisons that like yeah there's three different colors you can wear like as a man and um but i love that because it is such a good like comedy moment it's so funny but it is also like kind of real but like people don't necessarily know that but like we know that so it's like fun i just really loved him a lot he was really cute His character's name was Ren Bach and he was played by Robert Ems. You're welcome. Oh my God. Behind scenes. Thank Stippy tapping. Thank you, Robert.
00:39:02
Speaker
No, I loved that. And I also, to more specifically talk about like that corset, all like so many of these understructures were made in such a specific way that it almost made them feel like...
00:39:12
Speaker
Like wood or something like they looked, they were so designed because his corset looked very similar to the queen's corset and like like hoop skirt that she's being, she's got this contraption to like, which I, I was really glad that they highlighted that because then we as the audience can understand like what Emma Watson was rejecting when she decided not to wear a corset for Belle because that contraption is what it was like to wear a corset.
00:39:45
Speaker
And it is – actually a crank that tightens the laces so that you almost die. And that was because of the patriarchy. And we have moved past that.
00:39:56
Speaker
And we thank God Emma. For the information that you have not seen that movie. Yeah.
00:40:05
Speaker
sending me because we've talked about that so deeply stuff like that is why i didn't see it like that's why i didn't see we have to watch it i feel like that's almost worth like a live watch like that's crazy because i want i i feel like it has to be like a live watch because i your reactions in real time need to be recorded for posterity I just, I love how we can fix fairy tales through feminism. i just, it's so important for girls to understand that you can like be a boss.
00:40:44
Speaker
But like ill applied feminism. Oh, it's the worst. That's the one Where it's like, I i love the noble idea that you had but the execution was real fucked and I don't appreciate it yeah like I actually was really on yeah go ahead go ahead It's like it's not just down to you or me feeling like it was fucked. Like it is just like, oh, no, objectively, this bunk hairs.
00:41:11
Speaker
It's wild. Like I was I was on board when the dwarves like steal that bag of gold. And then Lily Collins is like, that's not the queen's gold that was taken from the people. And you need to give it back to the people. I was like, that is a good way of exploring this. Class consciousness.
00:41:37
Speaker
class consciousness. And then she's smart and she like turns it into like a heroic moment for the dwarves because they're like, we don't like those people. They threw us out of their town because we're different and we don't want to help them.
00:41:49
Speaker
And she like brings the gold back and she's like, the dwarves are so noble. They stole this gold back and asked me to bring it back to you because they love you. And then it like changed the whole dynamic and like, yes, it's problematic that they were kicked out in the first place. Obviously that's very bad.
00:42:05
Speaker
The fact that they were calling, what was it? Let me get the first introduction to it. ah Sorry, Echo is losing her damn mind right now. I feel like you just gave yourself a concussion on the coffee table.
00:42:21
Speaker
She's just like, and I just felt wind over my feet. Oh, didn't when, when she first is like talking to these gentlemen about like who they are and why they live where they're living. Doesn't somebody say like the uglies have been pushed out or something like, like there's a term yeah collectively.
00:42:41
Speaker
Yeah. For everybody who's been rejected from the queen's kingdom. And I'm like, look, look, listen, Hey, hey I feel like we're just like zipping past a lot of things here where we're just like saying it and then just moving on, but we're not like establishing it elsewhere.
00:43:01
Speaker
And so the fact that it's just being like, li and then we move on, I'm like, wo but bla but but but um like that could be the whole movie. not gonna be in the whole movie it's talking about like i want to remove like what i perceive as ugliness and fault from my view whatever right but it's like we're just like brushing past it and the language to brush past it is nuts but like the evil queen as a eugenicist i'm interested in that movie that sounds interesting but this episode is crazy it's just nuts
00:43:32
Speaker
Oh my god. um Okay, so let's let's just shout out some other costume moments that we love. um okay The spring-loaded legs that the dwarves had.
00:43:44
Speaker
I loved the silhouette of those. like The look of it was so cool and went so well with their overall ensemble. Yes, um it was very shirk. It was very Cirque du Soleil. Which like was like, did this happen after she designed Verakai? Because it felt like she did that. And then it was like, ooh, I'm into this now.
00:44:04
Speaker
And so I was like, yeah, you you input a little Cirque du Soleil. I love it. And not in like a like a derogatory circus freak kind of way.
00:44:16
Speaker
know what I'm saying. It was just like the beauty of like performance and engineering. Yeah. Yeah. They were so graceful too. And it it truly did trick me at first because I did not realize that that's who though those characters were going to be. Yeah.
00:44:31
Speaker
Because we see them for the first time like with the legs and then like one of the guys like retracts his and he like comes down to the ground and I was like, that's who this is. Yeah. Yeah. And was like, that's a great introduction.
00:44:47
Speaker
liked that a lot. I did. it was like the third time I'm going to bring it up. But that stupid fighting training montage with the outfit changes. It's so dumb. Very cute.
00:45:00
Speaker
its I'm on board. It's so stupid.
Key Costume Highlights and Character Portrayal
00:45:03
Speaker
Okay. The only in the movie that I was like, am am not sure What is the I loved the costume ball.
00:45:17
Speaker
Obsessed with everyone at the costume ball. But Julia Roberts in the red, which I loved the red, but the peacock motif on the red, yeah i found a little... Like, I was...
00:45:31
Speaker
trying to suss out why peacock plus red rather than just enjoying it because it is a beautiful gown. It's yeah, everything is beautiful. I'm not quite sure, but what's nice is that like on the Eric Winterling website, they have, like I said, this like slideshow for this project and there's, you get like a full body opportunity to look at the gown on the mannequin and um the peacock feathers at the cuff,
00:46:01
Speaker
are very very late 1500s lace aha shape of like the cuff of a juste decor even though the cuff of these sleeves is not that they're like massive massive bell sleeves but the the embroidery and the beading for these peacock feathers is in the shape of a juste decor cuff and i kind i'm putting this on there total bullshit But I kind of like that there's that melding of those two different shapes and kind of like a ah referential nod to lace, if you will, like lace cuff.
00:46:44
Speaker
Because we have so much lace elsewhere. and this is one where we don't have lace. this murder I don't think that she has lace in this moment. And so it's like a a nod to the European lace cuff of a certain era. And I was like, huh.
00:46:58
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah, that's like that is really an interesting observation. i like that. Yeah. And it, like, stands out very much. Very much. Kind of like in, like, the the the cutout sleeve caps that are going on.
00:47:13
Speaker
Yeah. With backscanning. It was kind of giving me, like, a bit of, like, a laser cut, even though I know that's not how it was done. But it feels like it. But it has kind of thing. Yeah.
00:47:23
Speaker
But I – Like, telling everyone to come to your party wearing white and showing up in red is something that I would do. So I did appreciate that. Yeah. I feel like it it definitely worked well for that. And having like the littlest bit of white.
00:47:39
Speaker
Just being like, I'm like you, but only this much. Yeah. It's just like so cunty. And I was like, okay, um I can support this. ah Women's rights and women's wrongs. um She has a lot of gold numbers that are pretty fantastic. And there's this one gown that has this massive ruff around her neck that I really, really enjoyed.
00:48:03
Speaker
It seems simple, you know, because it's like it almost feels like a flat gold and then like flat white. But you look at all of it and it's like all the shapes incorporated, all the I'm assuming cartridge pleating that's happening in that skirt.
00:48:20
Speaker
There's like little tucks all down the bodice to give it like a texture. and that one is very Elizabeth, ah Queen Elizabeth looking. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:48:31
Speaker
It is very, very much so. And it is just stinking gorgeous. Okay, so basically the whole queen's wardrobe. I loved everything that they trotted her out in. Yeah, can't go wrong. It was just so great. And this green number that she's wearing later in the movie.
00:48:47
Speaker
Did you... Okay. There's, again, on the Eric Winterling, they have a shot of the back of the skirt that shows all the draping and how the fabric is being brought into the train of it Because it has this very like pleated front bit.
00:49:06
Speaker
I'm not going to use any terminology. When do I ever? That is separate from the skirt. It's like a little over skirt that's oval from her waist. And then it's also got these like sleeves that are kind of like laser cut feeling.
00:49:21
Speaker
And another kind of, don't even know what to, what word to call Like an under, The hint of like an underdress that's like organza. And it has kind of the shape of like a collar happening.
00:49:40
Speaker
It's just so so interesting. The weights of fabric, the types of fabric that are put together. And the shapes that are going on in all of these things. yeah That's so much design and so much work.
00:49:54
Speaker
And none of it none of it is boring and none of it is overwhelming. right And those are like your two spectrum ends, you know, is like, this isn't interesting to look at. And i can't even notice any of it because it's just way too much going on.
00:50:09
Speaker
It is so... This feels like one of her more subtle looks for all the stuff that's happening. It's crazy. Right, right. too Because it's like very controlled and like we don't have like tons and tons of different elements happening. It's like streamlined?
00:50:26
Speaker
I don't know what the word is. It's more subtle because it's just two tones instead two tones plus a billion things happening. Snow, on the other hand, has these very sweet elements.
00:50:38
Speaker
um designs like at the very beginning it's very very sweet yeah i think that one's my favorite her first yeah look in the palace where she looks very young like she's definitely meant to be a girl birthday julia roberts was like why don't you get fucked like she does not care
00:51:04
Speaker
She's like, that's so cool. Tell someone who cares. She's like, I'm so sorry. like you're supposed to be locked in a room right now. Yeah, when she says, is there a fire? She's like, no, why would you say that?
00:51:17
Speaker
Oh, because you're out of your room and I don't understand why you'd be out of your room unless it was at risk of burning to death. I could not figure out like where I was landing with how I felt about some of the script and dialogue choices in this movie.
00:51:33
Speaker
is... insane because there are some little moments that land and then there are some moments where you're like I see what you were trying okay like the montage not the montage but the whole scene where the queen is getting like her skincare regimen which is like supposed to be slapsticky and it's like this I could have lived without any of this happening at me could have loop to that it was a lot yeah it was um it just yeah it didn't have a payoff Right. At all.
00:52:05
Speaker
Like there, it wasn't, yeah you know, and like, I think the most. The thing that stood out to me the most was the the costume that Mary Winningham was in as the the lady in waiting. Like I was watching what she was doing more than anything else.
00:52:20
Speaker
um But yeah, Lily Collins first. yeah I'm sorry. Oh, no. yeah I wasn't watching any of it happen because it was like a lot of like leeches and maggots and bird poop. And i didn't really want to see that. I didn't want So to go back to something that was pleasant for the eyes, Lily Collins' first costume. It's like this satiny pink bonnet bodice with like these this floral embroidered applique and these like light green sleeves. It's supposed to be like a chemise, I think, underneath. puff sleeve. And then this like gold, but not quite gold. It's more like a Like an ochre?
00:53:02
Speaker
like an ochre skirt with this beautiful floral all over it. And it's just like such a sweet princess look. And it was absolutely stunning.
00:53:15
Speaker
And it's interesting because, you know, obviously ah this movie is not related to the like Disney, Snow White, all all characters and scenes that may...
00:53:31
Speaker
you know, be familiar are purely by coincidence, legal, legal, allegedly, allegedly, like all of that. But like this first look, it, it felt a little bit like that look in the sense that we have these sort of like disparate design elements and like strong color blocking.
00:53:52
Speaker
But it all like hangs together and like works as like an ensemble. And like that was the only thing that like kind of felt similar in like spirit to the animated.
00:54:06
Speaker
took a shape that we recognize as a certain age range for a young girl because her hair is also down. And like yeah the shortcut in visual language for what we understand to be like sweetness and like purity and also the wealth of the character because of what she's wearing. So it tells us who she is and it grounds us in this like perpetual child that she's childhood that she's being held in you know, because it's like so girlish.
00:54:33
Speaker
And then like to just massacre person. the timeline of this movie. I'm going jump because we did mention her thief outfit. Did you like her?
00:54:45
Speaker
Did you like her micro bangs at the end? How did you feel about the micro bangs? See, I might not have like, no, I think, I think they took me out a little bit because they're so a little modern. They're so modern.
00:54:59
Speaker
Very 2012. very two thousand and twelve But also i think that they would, I would have let it go without comment. If they didn't have that infuriating moment at the very end where she looks down the barrel of the camera and then blinks and looks to the left and blinks and looks to the right. And in between each blink, the camera shows all these people partying going, yay.
00:55:25
Speaker
If they hadn't had that, wouldn't have felt like a visceral no Yeah. didn't feel yeah And I also had a reaction to this gown, which stunning. It's a beautiful gown. It is so beautiful and so interesting. This is the this is the costume I mentioned that yeah I felt a little bit emotionally opposite of what I felt of the Cogsworth Roach.
00:55:54
Speaker
How it's telling the story of the character and where they are. So this is after that hard cut from the night and two men saying, give me a woman. coming to this wedding scene where the king is giving his daughter to this man.
00:56:09
Speaker
This is her wedding dress. And I read in one of these articles that the yeah one of the influences behind this gown was to make her look like a gift, which is why there is this giant bow on the back. Little giant bow.
00:56:25
Speaker
hate this for Snow White. Just like as a character character, yeah thing that's like telling the story. i hate this. I hate this.
00:56:36
Speaker
Especially after this weird like pseudo-feminist overlay that we've had on the movie of her being like, I'm going to save myself and the boys. And it's like, oh, now at the end I'm going to be sold into marriage. i want to be rewarded by burying your daughter. and then the king who's been there for four minutes is like, yeah, sure, I guess. I haven't seen her since she was a little girl. my god. I don't even know where I am anymore.
00:57:01
Speaker
And i didn't like, I had such a visceral reaction to the messaging of all of that, that I hated that for the character, yeah but the costume itself is so beautiful. So beautiful. And it's so saturated. These orange, like this is, these are choices that not many people would make because normally people be like, well, I can't just like put two different strong colors together. They are complementary colors.
00:57:29
Speaker
but like And it's wedding dress. And the pressure to put her in some moreph some white or silver or gold or like we've our combination.
00:57:39
Speaker
We've already had massive gold and white gowns. So yay! The only white thing that we see on this gown is the the like drop shoulder collar. So this is very like meets... no yes it's like eighteen sixty s me
00:57:55
Speaker
uh i don't even know what it's meeting i don't know who she's meeting it's like a little bit 16th century i feel and like maybe because of the tight sleeve is kind of like renaissance yeah like italian renaissance or something yeah it's it's ah it's it's a bunch of different things but like at the outside it's got a lot of 1860s going on because there's the yeah the drop puff sleeves of it all it is So gorgeous because like this bright saturated orange for the sleeves, then the blue of the puff.
00:58:29
Speaker
And there's like an over skirt that is one blue and an underskirt. That's a different blue. yeah And it's just so gorgeous. And it's so clearly made for this actress because it like is so flattering for her tone wise, the the color palette wise.
00:58:47
Speaker
Yeah. And like, i loved it hated the messaging and then the smocking of the yeah the smocking on the bodice did you read that apparently the orange was like a last minute change and it originally was going to be blue and red and they decided it was too similar to certain other snow white properties so yeah the orange was like but it like it's hard to imagine that they were going to do anything other than that orange because it's so perfect it's so perfect and so it's like she's she's just like
00:59:20
Speaker
It's just such a gorgeous dress. And like those sleeves, they are not just like puff sleeves. They are the amount of fabric that is in these sleeves.
00:59:32
Speaker
Must be insane. because We're going into like crimson peak territory here. Yes. These are so gorgeous. So i I thought this was like a beautiful way to end this this movie with this moment. And like the bow on the back is so unique because it's also not the way that we ordinarily tie bows. Like the two bows actually go up like wings.
00:59:56
Speaker
Yeah. Towards her shoulders. And so it's just like, ugh.
Legacy of 'Mirror Mirror' in Costume Design
01:00:01
Speaker
ah I was so like shocked when ah Julia Roberts as the hag showed up in this scene because i was like oh yeah we didn't ever do that at all and I didn't miss it I didn't need it it was so unnecessary And I was like, her away when she took the knife to like cut the apple, I was like, you should just stab her in the chest. I'm so sorry. Right in the eye. Just get rid of her
01:00:37
Speaker
Get that red on your dress. Yeah, but I also thought it was really... i saw some weird quote from Tarsem Singh talking about... I guess he spoiled that that was going to be a moment in the movie during like some press thing. because like Oh, no.
01:00:51
Speaker
And he referred to seeing Julia Roberts like in the old age like hag get up as disgusting. And I was like, okay, well, she's just a woman aging. like We don't need to...
01:01:04
Speaker
go there with our words. And it's also like theatrical stage makeup. Like it's not even like we've got like pustules or anything. It's just literally like the most exaggerated under eye lines that you could imagine and the most exaggerated labial folds like in her face.
01:01:21
Speaker
but Yeah, she's not like a bookkeeper. She just looks like a witch from movie. hasn't seen daylight in a while. Yeah. and she's also Or someone who like dissolved all of her fillers and is aging naturally in Hollywood or something. Yeah.
01:01:36
Speaker
And just like stopped wearing, you know, makeups and things to disguise her skin. like Yeah. But I was like, feel weird. And then the song, i just okay talked about that a little bit before we started recording.
01:01:50
Speaker
So the credits... This is the last note I have on here. Remember, I was much higher at that point watching this than I am now. The credit song is terrible, but it is also my whole new personality because it's so silly.
01:02:04
Speaker
It's just like you you pointed out that like maybe Lily Collins can't dance. And I'm like, possibly... the costume that she's in was not constructed for dancing anyway because that is fair just have her doing these crazy like lean back she's just doing like shoulder work shoulderography she kind of like hands up it feels like well we have him in these costumes so we might as well do something else and then the designer being like okay okay I truly thought it was going to turn into a full like choreographed dance number where like everybody that's attending the wedding is going to like turn around and they'll all be like professional dancers and just start throwing down. And it just didn't happen. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm okay with that.
01:02:51
Speaker
because i think i would have preferred that. I felt so angry. I'm like, I just went through this nonsense. And you were you reverse deft Sean Bean at me and I didn't even have enough time to like process that. And like, this is one of his only movies where he comes back from the dead. I need to be able to celebrate that. I don't have enough time. And then you have him giving away a woman, a whole woman.
01:03:17
Speaker
And like now we're doing this. Yeah. so it just this the movie and don't forget the yearbook moment with the dwarves have a great summer like the whole the whole movie feels like it's happening at you because it it feels like who are you aimed towards like i you can watch young adult and children move like children kids movies and family movies and be like ah these jokes are just like young for me or you know they're They're meant to go over the kids' heads. I get it. you know But like these ones just feel like bits that don't quite land anywhere.
01:03:56
Speaker
And so i you know that's its own episode talking about the movie itself. But like the costumes, I feel, are just out of this world.
01:04:07
Speaker
I feel like for all the pitfalls of the movie, every costume piece on the screen is such a beautiful and lovingly made piece because you can see that nothing, even if it needed to be fast-tracked, it was done so well that like all was. Yeah, and everything was important.
01:04:31
Speaker
yeah Everything was important. And like, it was all beautiful. And like, yeah it felt fairy tale because yeah even though we had like the seven dwarves and and snow living in the in this forest, they didn't feel like super dirty or anything like that. They felt like they were prepared for their environment. And so that also made it feel fantasy.
01:04:54
Speaker
that they had these camo for the woods kind of outfits right but it was very like everything was sort of gonna be fine like that was kind of like the feeling throughout was like it's all gonna work out it's a fairy tale like stakes visually yeah even weren't a part of the language and so everything is just this is such a beautiful example of a designer's work and the work of the people that were hired to, to make it to the builders.
01:05:24
Speaker
And like, I just, that's why I wanted to suggest it. Cause I was like, well, we have to bookend I go is yoga and it's just beautiful stuff. You know what? We were so remiss and not including in this season so far is the brandy Cinderella movie.
01:05:41
Speaker
oh
01:05:43
Speaker
Maybe that should be our next one. I mean, what are we going to do, Or are we just going to do a whole season that's about like princesses and fairy tales or Oh, that's what we're doing. Separate from fantasy. That's what we're doing. Fairy tales and fantasy. Yeah, we are doing a pretty, pretty princess season.
01:06:05
Speaker
No, we got to do pretty, pretty princess Well, then that means that I'm not only going to make you watch the Disney Cinderella, I'm also going to make you watch the French one. ah yeah I'm going to make have you go all in.
01:06:16
Speaker
I put myself in that. I have no one to blame but me for that. so Put your neck down into that little guillotine. Just lay it Maybe I'll even finally watch the movie version of Into the Woods, which I've also not. Melinda.
01:06:34
Speaker
ah
01:06:38
Speaker
I'm finding out a lot of things. Listen, sin I watched the first act of the like filmed on Broadway version when I thought that I was going to be working on it like 15 years ago. And i I watched the entire first act and I was like, wow, that was great.
01:06:54
Speaker
We're done here. We've done it.
01:06:59
Speaker
It was like two hours. I'm taking this like soapbox, like roll and I'm a hundred percent the same. Like I'm just, I think it's because I spent so much time shit talking like the the Disney Beauty and the Beast that it's like, you didn't?
01:07:14
Speaker
like i know.
01:07:18
Speaker
hate you Like, how can you make fun of it appropriately if you didn't even watch the movie? i and then That's the kind of bullshit that I'm bringing to the table. let And let me like reel back the asshole-ishness of what I'm saying about that movie.
01:07:34
Speaker
No, not fully. I just want to give one little bit of extra, which is that Beauty and the Beast movie is a perfect microcosm of the conversation about the importance of a costume designer.
01:07:45
Speaker
And the positions that costume designers can be put in when you have a name or you know something that the movie is kind of riding on. And then you kind of have to take a step back.
01:07:56
Speaker
Because like I just want to say this. If anybody, someday we will record an episode about it. But if anybody wants to find it, there is an interview with the designer where she is the soul of professionalism.
01:08:09
Speaker
And she is saying, Yes, Emma um ah Watson. Yeah, Emma Watson. um You know, she had these ideas and like, basically in Ariel, we're going to cut through her her diplomatic responses that she was giving in the interview.
01:08:30
Speaker
And what she was saying was, I designed this part of the movie and that's what I'm going to take responsibility for. Thank you. And I'm just... I just stepped back and said, okay.
01:08:45
Speaker
And so any, any parts of the movie that you might be mentioning to me right now that have any issues you want to talk about, those are the parts that I did not design. So I can't answer those questions. And I was like, don't know I simply cannot answer this the way that you wish. And so I simply do not have the information for you. And so it's just like, it was it I was like,
01:09:06
Speaker
Good for you for being professional in how you're relating this. But thank you for also kind of leaving a gap in what you're saying to make it clear that like you are taking responsibility for the work that you did.
01:09:21
Speaker
End of story. And that's we can do. That opens up the conversation. About the value of what this does for these things.
01:09:33
Speaker
um So yeah. Someday we'll talk about it. But that was Mirror Mirror. survived it. That was it. We it. We did it. And it was our most coherent and professional episode that we've ever...
01:09:47
Speaker
done and I feel very proud of us for the leaps and strides that we continue to make.
01:09:57
Speaker
but And I can't wait to listen to this episode again later. oh Bless you. because i think I'm going to be like, wow, we did it. And then like my full chest coughs directly into the microphone. and You're welcome. So sorry about that. Did not know what times this happened.
01:10:16
Speaker
So we did it. ah Kudos to us. Yeah. We made it through ah have Mirror a Mirror. um We are so close to the end of this season. um so we only have a couple episodes left before we wrap up and never look at colors again, because that's what we've decided to do.
01:10:36
Speaker
ah and So we're going to take a foray into a movie that neither of us knows a whole lot about next time. So I think that'll be really fun to like watch something again that neither of us has seen and kind of see where we land. So we picked the 2014 Korean film, The Royal Tailor.
01:10:56
Speaker
And the sort of little blurb on IMDb ah about that movie is... Story of a rivalry between two tailors, Dal Seok, who is the best master artisan in charge of royal attire, and Kong Jin, genius-like designer, born with dexterity and an excellent sense, plunges the court into scandal and tragedy.
01:11:19
Speaker
So we love to see clothing be the downfall of the nation on this podcast. Love nothing more. yeah And I do just like before we head out, I want to say thank you to everybody who came to see us at PAX this year. This is coming out a bit after we were there.
01:11:36
Speaker
But that was our first time meeting people and doing a live episode. And now we are drunk on power and the excitement of meeting people face to face. So thank you so much for listening and can't wait to do it again. it was fun.
01:11:50
Speaker
It was fun. it was crazy how...
01:11:54
Speaker
crazy how amazing it felt because I was so scared like yeah you and I were like oh my god oh we're gonna be fine it's gonna be okay yeah like and then we blacked out for 60 minutes Yeah, we really did. And everyone that came was just so nice and like, wanted to have a good time and was just like, so much fun to talk to afterwards. Like we stayed and talked to people so long because like, everybody was cool. And I was like, I wish we could keep doing this. But we do at some point have to eat food. Like, yes, we do. We are so tired. Yeah. We are so like hopped up on adrenaline and like slowly crashing back down to earth. Like it was such an insane and experience because, you know, we both like,
01:12:48
Speaker
do this work in these like performance based fields, but like, that's not our role in the production is to be up there in front of everybody. It's so different to be up there in front of everybody.
01:13:03
Speaker
strange. And what's nice is that we recorded the episode. So the live will be available someday. so listen Yeah. And there might even be some visuals. We might have been there. Well, because I did get them and it's, it's us. It's your face and my face.
01:13:19
Speaker
this giant Oh my God. And you can actually see some of the audience, which is pretty cool. So you can see that there were human beings in the building um But yeah, it was a really cool experience. It was nice to see people who are interested in this and interested in hearing a silly, goofy take on these things and to know that you're out there and to have the opportunity to see your work.
01:13:41
Speaker
I think that was the most exciting thing too, was to see the cosplays and like the work and oh my God, I want to do that again. Like I just want to yeah make friends and and talk about this shit.
01:13:53
Speaker
Yeah. and so you know, it's, it's inspiring us again, which is really nice. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. So all right but thanks for listening. Goodbye.