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The Fountain
0 Playsin 3 days
One man's quest to solve the problem of death so his wife can live forever. Despite what she actually wants.
This movie is full of poetic imagery and asks a lot of big questions and doesn't provide all the answers. And no, it's not sci-fi just because there's a laboratory and a dude floating through space. So let's just get that straight.
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https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0414993/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_the%2520fountain
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Hot Set' and 'The Fountain'
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome to another episode of Hot Set. We are here. We are focusing this season on fantasy and the many different things that that could possibly mean.
Synopsis and Narrative Style of 'The Fountain'
00:00:36
Speaker
watched the 2006 Darren Aronofsky film The darren aranofski film The Fountain starring Hugh Jackman and Rachel Weisz. I feel like this one doesn't come up as often when people are talking about Darren Aronofsky.
00:00:52
Speaker
i think I saw this movie before I really kind of understood ah that he was a person. yeah, i yeah this movie came out in 2006. i I'm going to read the one sentence synopsis from IMDb that does not explain this movie even a little bit, but here we go.
00:01:15
Speaker
As a modern day scientist, Tommy is struggling with mortality, desperately searching for the medical breakthrough that will save the life of his cancer stricken wife, Izzy.
00:01:26
Speaker
Okay. So Tommy is Hugh Jackman. Izzy is Rachel Weisz. And... I suppose that is some of the stuff that happens in this movie.
00:01:40
Speaker
ah This movie is told in a very... non-linear ah fashion. It jumps around between completely seemingly you know disparate times and places at the beginning and you kind of start to understand how they come together as the movie goes on.
00:02:02
Speaker
um So we also see hugh Jackman and Rachel Weisz playing characters in like 16 or 1500s Spain with Rachel Weisz playing the Queen of Spain and Hugh Jackman playing a conquistador that travels to Central America to look for a hidden Mayan temple and the tree of life that will save Spain from the tyranny of the Spanish Inquisition.
Audience Interpretations and Personal Reflections
00:02:34
Speaker
And we also see, uh, Hugh Jackman, ah looking like avatar floating through space in a bubble with a dying tree and he's meditating, he's floating, he's tattooing himself and he's having visions of Rachel Weisz at various stages of her life and illness.
00:03:00
Speaker
Yeah. What else? I don't, don't know. Ariel, help me, help me. so I think that your description is exactly what is before our eyeballs, right? yeah Like it's, it's basically, you can kind of interpret it in multiple ways. Of course, I went on to Reddit this morning and people were like, well, it's this or it's this or it's this. And then somebody said, Darren Aronofsky has said, the film is solvable.
00:03:23
Speaker
Like it's not an impossible plot to understand. Yeah. Whereas it feels like it is. So I have an interpretation and that I think makes sense of it. But also when I first saw this, cause this was 2006. So this is like, you know,
00:03:39
Speaker
fresh out of high school still in the teens and I was like obsessed with it because the soundtrack for this movie gorgeous so beautiful so it's like I listened to this when I was going to art school and I was like painting and stuff like it was it's so dramatic and like heart-wrenching the music um so very inspirational when you're when you're in it you know what I'm saying it's like the most fucking dramatic teenager ever But i when I was younger, I had read the the graphic novel of this, which I think came first.
00:04:15
Speaker
But i I did nothing to remind myself of this being factual. so Yeah, I don't know. i couldn't say. But it's basically like almost shot for shot, like the same.
00:04:26
Speaker
But like, you know... paintings And um there's a little bit more information in the graphic novel that God forbid I remember because I can't. So this is just, you know, your grandpa telling you some memories from 1922.
00:04:38
Speaker
And ah so I just remember that this was like a story about grief. And when I first watched it, I kind of took it for what it was that there was this originating so story um And that these characters were like being like reincarnated or were like living through time.
00:04:59
Speaker
um Right.
Themes of Grief and Acceptance in 'The Fountain'
00:05:00
Speaker
Because they found the tree of. um basically like eternal life and like had had fed from it and just like kept living. And so I was like, yeah, sure, whatever. thing Just didn't really think deeply about it while thinking deeply about it the way one does as a teenager, you know what saying? yes. And so I was just like swept away by the sadness.
00:05:22
Speaker
So this watch, I haven't watched it in a very long time. So this time I interpreted it differently. So during the story, Izzy, who is Rachel Weisz's character, ah is writing a book.
00:05:35
Speaker
Like she knows that she's dying. She's accepted her death. And like she's scared of it and she's sad, but she has accepted it. Whereas her husband, who is a doctor, scientist, scientist, doctor. Veterinarian? Question mark. Bad veterinarian. um but he he's like, I'm going to cure death.
00:05:55
Speaker
Like it is just another illness and I'm going to fix it. So he's coming from very different place of denial and like just a heartbreak and kind of taking his wife's death and making it About himself. Yeah. Yeah. Because like, it's kind of, it's a little bit of a horror story because she's just like, hey, the first snow has fallen and every year we always go and walk together. And he's like, no, I'm too busy. Like, he's just.
00:06:22
Speaker
Yeah. Like he misses the end of her life because he's trying to prevent it. Like can't be there. He misses the end of her life by just like not being present because he keeps trying to run from it. yeah And so there's that sadness there. and um But she's writing this book and the book is called The Fountain. And he's like, ooh, can I read it? And finally he gets the opportunity to read it.
00:06:43
Speaker
The book is the story that we see um right about the conquistador and the queen. So it's yeah very representative, I think, of her, her cancer and the conquistador, her husband, who's going to do anything to fix it. So I think...
00:06:59
Speaker
that like Spain, right? Cause like, okay, when we, wrote when we see this part of the story, Isabel is dressed as a queen and he is dressed as a Spanish man and like conquistador. And there's a, a very horrible like priest who like self flagellates and tortures people. And basically says that this search to,
00:07:26
Speaker
to heal your queen is heresy and it's against, you know, all of these things. And like Hugh Jackman's character, Tomas is just like, by the way, these are the least Spanish accents.
00:07:41
Speaker
There's not one. No, there's nothing. of it There's not even an attempt. And you know what? That's fine with me. yeah I do find it kind of weird when people do put on like, a Spanish accent to play a Spanish person. And I'm like, well, they would just be speaking in Spanish.
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah. They wouldn't be speaking in English with a and Spanish accent. So like, it doesn't actually bother me when people do that in movies. Cause I'm like, well it's just like, there was a moment where I was like, what are we doing? So basically the story that's happening in Spain is like a metaphor for what's happening in the modern day. That's the book. And it's Izzy working through experience,
00:08:19
Speaker
her death and working through her husband's mission to like solve death and to save her yeah and that that ends badly because like there is no answer there is no answer death is is an immutable fact yeah and you have to accept it.
00:08:39
Speaker
And I love that she leaves the last chapter unfinished and tells him to finish it because it's like, it's, it's her being like, you, you have to accept that this ending is inevitable. And in fact, you have to write it down yourself because I need you to understand it and accept it.
00:08:57
Speaker
So that's what I think the avatar is. I think that this this avatar version of Hugh Jackman in a bubble traveling through space towards Shibalba, nebula, that is the chapter that Tom writes. Because it's him in the future
Visual Storytelling and Symbolism
00:09:15
Speaker
where he has tattooed himself with rings like a tree. So all of those rings represent all of the years that they've been floating through space.
00:09:23
Speaker
The tree is a tree that Izzy mentioned earlier. um as part of a story that there was like a grave and a seed was planted and this tree grew over the grave. And so this tree is like this monument that he planted on her grave and it's taken on her soul. Like we see like hairs rising on it when he speaks to it. Like hairs would rise like on the back of your neck if somebody was talking to you. Yeah. And yeah,
00:09:49
Speaker
He is like, we're going to make it. We're going to make it to this nebula, which is a dying star. And it's what the Mayans, according to this movie, um believed was their underworld.
00:10:00
Speaker
And he's like, we're going to make it there and then we'll be we'll be like be able to live forever. yeah Yeah. And so he, at the end, the tree dies.
00:10:11
Speaker
Spoiler alert. alert But I think it's been long enough. The tree dies. And he finally accepts death yeah he he finally like accepts death And the conquistador on the other end of it is forced into accepting death because he gets stabbed.
00:10:27
Speaker
And then he goes to this tree, stabs the tree and like this ichor comes out and he like covers his wound with it. But then plants like start coming out of it.
00:10:40
Speaker
And like new life basically keeps him alive and he chokes to death on the new life. So like the conquistador version, the one that's fighting, fighting, fighting, Death comes for him anyways.
00:10:51
Speaker
And then the one that is like the futuristic one. It's not totally. i like when he sort of explodes into plants because it, it harkens back to her story and the idea that you can live forever, but not in the form of a human. So it, it's sort of like, well, bro, you are going to live forever as this plant now. Exactly. Yeah.
00:11:18
Speaker
And so in that version as the conquistador, he's still fighting. Like he doesn't, he hasn't accepted death. Death yeah takes him anyway. But then the other version, of the avatar version has accepted death and he kind of like is melted by the light of the dying star. Or like he's on his way. yeah hasn't quite like, I think it's really interesting that you interpreted that as the last chapter of the book. That's really fascinating. And I hadn't considered it in that aspect.
00:11:45
Speaker
I, Did think of that last that section as like a completely like spiritual ah journey being represented through the like physical bubble in the tree and him in like finally getting to a place where he could.
00:12:06
Speaker
could accept what was happening. So I feel like we had the same conclusion of what it means, but I didn't think about it as literally being the last chapter of the book, which I think is a really interesting way to think about it. Yeah.
00:12:21
Speaker
I kind of just like think that that was his contribution, was his own metaphorical explanation of his own realistic journey of coming to this place of going, I can let it go.
00:12:34
Speaker
And so it's like, cause the, the, the avatar version of him like is yelling at the end, like I'm going to die. yeah I'm going to die. And then he just like melts. Like, yeah.
00:12:45
Speaker
It like hits him the light and then just, you know? So it's like, I think that that realization was his acceptance that like death is going to come regardless. Like, yeah. And I think it's intentional that he he's in the bubble with like the tree, which is representing her. and when he finally kind of accepts what's happening, he leaves the tree behind and like goes off in his own like mini bubble. And it's sort of like you have to do this part on your own.
00:13:15
Speaker
You can't hold on to this tree. You got to go. And the tree had died. The tree was dead. And so it's like, you, you, she is dead. You have to let her go. Yeah. And so it's just like, i don't know.
00:13:31
Speaker
And what's, what's nice about this is that kind of any interpretation works, right? Like, however it affects you, it affects you. And it's kind of like a like a visual painting because there's a color palette that is present throughout the whole thing.
00:13:47
Speaker
yes And, um, I would like us both to talk about what colors we think are dominant and important in this. What colors were important for you?
00:13:58
Speaker
um i would say number one important color is gold. Yeah. And I really loved ah how they used a lot of different light sources and things to kind of give you this like starry,
00:14:15
Speaker
feeling in like the other versions. There's lots of candles. There's lots of different little lights everywhere that like create this sort of starry sky scape. Um, and obviously like the nebula is like gold and, um,
00:14:32
Speaker
There's a lot of like golden sunlight, golden nebula, stars, candles, incandescent practical lighting. Like it's and of course there's gold.
00:14:44
Speaker
Oh, oh, costumes, right? Isn't that we do we I feel like we maybe whatever. feel like we're just here to chat. Yeah. ah there's a There's a lot of gold, particularly I would say the most is the sort of Spanish queen. She's like gold, gold, gold city.
00:15:02
Speaker
She also has a gold, gold tree branches all over that dress. So it's like the the presence of the tree. It's everything about this like ties into each other so beautifully, like in every feature.
00:15:15
Speaker
And so for me, another um very dominant color was this cool white. So there are two kinds of light, right? Cool and warm. And um in the modern day story where Izzy is talking about her research that she's done for her book. And she's talking about Shabalba and the nebula.
00:15:35
Speaker
She and Tom are on their roof in the snow, looking through a telescope and they're looking at the nebula. And it is the only warm source of light in that part of the sky. All the rest of the stars are very cool.
00:15:48
Speaker
So I feel like that, those three colors that like black and the cool white and the the gold warmth, are like very dominant throughout. And it just like, the the cool white is for all the living things.
00:16:03
Speaker
And then the warm, the warm is for that dying star. And like, I just kind of like how those show up. And could possibly be interpreted too throughout because it's just like such a tight presence regardless of what it means.
00:16:19
Speaker
I will say
Costume and Realism in Visual Storytelling
00:16:20
Speaker
i don't believe that you would be able to see that nebula through that telescope. I don't think so either. Yeah. I am not an astronomer, but my dad is like a hobbyist astronomer. And I've looked through many telescopes at many things. And I don't recall ever seeing a nebula out of like a pop up backyard telescope.
00:16:42
Speaker
I don't think you can see that. You and I are both glasses wearers. yes And I think additionally, you and i would not be able to see a nebula. On top of the fact that the telescope is not a giant telescope.
00:16:56
Speaker
Like, I feel like that's what observatories are for. like I think so. Yeah. Or like something much, much more developed than that little guy. It's just like working for its life. I was, i was like, I'm going to let that go.
00:17:10
Speaker
not completely because I'm complaining about it, but I'm going to let that go. This is fantasy. This is a fantasy. I can just make a circle with my my hand, my fingers in one hand, and I can look through that and I can see a nebula.
00:17:23
Speaker
A nebula, which I'm like, obviously the Mayans had to see it somehow. So yeah i don't know. Maybe I'm just talking nonsense. maybe Maybe you can see it. I feel like I would have looked at it through a telescope in my backyard if I could have. Well, as we know, we're very good at research. So here's another thing we're adding to our plate, which is astronomers.
00:17:43
Speaker
I know. I feel like I probably should just, I should just like ask my dad, be like can you see this? I'm i would very happy to to end up on the side of like, this was a teeny tiny telescope to see something very, very cleanly like that. um So like these colors, i just, I love um because like Izzy is wearing this like very, very pearlescent, like shiny not shiny, very bright white coat and throughout ah the present when we see her.
00:18:19
Speaker
Tom is pretty much always in dark clothing. And so it's just like he's trying, I don't know, I kind of like adding shit like this, so excuse me. But it's kind of like he's like the firmament of this and he's trying to hold on to this living star, which is when she's wearing all white.
00:18:37
Speaker
And then... like he he can't hold on to the the like golden queen who is like the dying star right like he can't hold on to it but he keeps trying don't know i just yeah and it could be it could be really pedestrian like he's dark because he's not enlightened because he's yeah not able to accept the truth and there's probably some of that in there but um I do there was a lot of interplay between dark and light and what you could see and what you couldn't see and a lot of what you couldn't see was the details of people's costumes which made me a little sad it did yeah because everything was pretty much about how it reacted to the light as opposed to seeing details so it's like when um
00:19:26
Speaker
Tomás, the conquistador, is um not in full armor. and he's like in... the throne room question mark surrounded by candles yeah he's wearing clothing at the time but like it's pretty subtle it's not like very flouncy which we're usually used to that era with like slashed sleeves and like you know yeah the fabric coming through big yeah things and like gold and like spain for a lot of its history
00:19:58
Speaker
the royalty did wear black like that was like a royal court thing was to kind of be in black and so this felt more like it was on the train of like a deep dark red or like a brown kind of thing so there was like a warmth to it but still communicated ah darker heavier feeling but I did like that it wasn't like over the top and like, right um, yeah. And like Rachel Weiss, her, her gown as Isabel, Queen Isabel wasn't super over the top either. And part of that is what, what was limited from our site. yeah It feels heavy. It feels wealthy, you know, and it feels very ceremonial or presentational. Yeah. And like,
00:20:45
Speaker
It's intended to be worn by royalty, but it doesn't feel like she's like dripping with, you know, gold and gemstones. And so i like that it's a little bit more stylized and that like the designs on the skirts are these like gold branches kind of reaching down toward the ground.
00:21:04
Speaker
or roots even. Yeah. I couldn't decide. I was like, it's either roots or branches. It probably doesn't matter. Cause it's beautiful. Like I was like, I'm just going to ride with it. But I just like color is very important in this movie. And yeah like the modern clothing is, there's a lot of like medical scrubs, um basically like jeans and regular shirts. It's regular wear. So it really just matters what color the things are um as opposed to like the ornamentation. yeah Yeah, it's very simple. like We're seeing in the sort of present day stuff, it's very like just regular people doing regular things. like There's nothing like super specialized about what they other than hit the medical scrubs. I feel like folks are wearing pretty pretty plain clothes yeah and that like all the busyness is left to the set dressing.
00:22:01
Speaker
yeah And like there's, there's not like, you know, any bedazzling or anything like there's no, there's just none of that. It's very stripped down. And so it it creates this kind of bleak reality. Cause it's also, it feels very cold except for in certain areas. Like there's a scene in the lab, um Hugh Jackman's lab, Tom's lab, ah kind of maybe like towards the beginning in the middle of the movie where,
00:22:32
Speaker
He's waiting for the results of this brain surgery that he's performed. And um there's light sources in the lab closer to the camera. On the left side of the screen, they're warm.
00:22:44
Speaker
And on the right side of the screen, they're all cool. And so it's just like, and then there's just like heaps of stuff all over the place. So it's just like the the lighting and what all of this is doing and how it feels so busy. And so like kind of oppressive because it just like every space feels very full.
00:23:02
Speaker
except for like the bathtub that Izzy's in when he's like giving her this bath and she pulls him into the water. There's like space around that. So kind of anytime we see Izzy, there's space around,
00:23:14
Speaker
And there's like. yeah Openness. Yeah. Open areas and places to move. And anytime we see Tom. There's just like busy busy busy stuff. Very claustrophobic.
00:23:25
Speaker
I was also very very aware of like the ceiling. In the lab. Like he looks up at it a lot. We see like overhead. We see like the lighting. We see like you know the ceiling. And I feel like that had to be intentional too.
00:23:41
Speaker
The like he's. down here and he's not able to like burst up and out until the end of the movie yeah could be maybe i'm i'm with you because it just it feels like somebody who's on one side of grief and fear and another person who's on the other and it's like they're different interpretations of what's happening throughout and um yeah like i just i kind of love like we see this mayan kind of like ceremonial guard or like priest. Yeah. Priest. I was like, we're like, we got to get to the mind priest. Yeah. So there's this, that whole section that's in Spain. Yeah. um
00:24:22
Speaker
The queen basically like gives Tomas this ring, a golden ring, which is his wedding ring, which is a part of the modern day story that he like misplaced his wedding ring after a surgery. And he's kind of freaking out about it. And it's representing like regret.
00:24:34
Speaker
The meaning, the drama. Yeah. Symbology. Yeah. maji said love um And so I get into it. And so we see this given to him by the queen as he's being released to go towards what she calls Spain. Yeah. Barth. Which is not New Spain. Yeah. And that's what they called it, but Barth. Yeah. Barth.
00:25:00
Speaker
And so he's like, he goes on this journey and it's like him and a handful of soldiers who all get murked like real hard except for him. And he like gets stabbed by this priest who tells him what Izzy tells Tom in the future, which is that death is the road to awe.
00:25:19
Speaker
And um he's like, in order to reach the tree, you have to sacrifice. And so he stabs Tomas in the gut And then like once that is complete, he like reveals his throat for Tomas like kill him.
00:25:34
Speaker
yeah In turn. Which, I don't know, man. not Not fair. ah This guy seems to know yeah like
Cultural Representation and Indigenous Narratives
00:25:41
Speaker
whatever. But yeah his um his costume, his like clothing and this insane looking headpiece. It's like made of like vertebra and like bones. And he's got this like amazing necklace made of like skulls and and different stuff. And I was like...
00:26:02
Speaker
That stuff freaks me out. Like I really like it's so amazing looking and i don't want to be anywhere near it. I don't know what it is about that stuff. Like some people look at that or they look at like bones and skulls and they see, you know, like beauty and they see like all of these wonderful things. And I'm like, nope.
00:26:23
Speaker
And I think that I'm more on like the Tom side it. the spiritual equation. I'm in like a denial stage. I'm like, nope, get those bones away from me. No, thank you.
00:26:33
Speaker
but Yeah. It's like, I thought it was pretty beautiful because the first time we see him, ah he's, he's like silhouetted by this golden light that's coming from beyond this like threshold that he's guarding.
00:26:46
Speaker
But he's also kind of been leading Tomas too. Right. And cause it's almost like Tomas is like a sacrifice to this tree, you know? And, um but there's like,
00:26:57
Speaker
I don't know what it is. it, the headpiece kind of like the bones curve on either side of the back of his head to kind of feel like, like wings.
00:27:08
Speaker
And then there's like, cause I can't see it clearly enough. I don't know what's kind of hanging down with suspended. Yeah. i don't know either horse hair you know, something, but it's just like very beautiful and it feels very heavy because it, it is all bone and like,
00:27:27
Speaker
Everything about this character in the time that we see him is kind of about blood and bone and death. And so it's just like a very, very impactful costume.
00:27:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's definitely one that sticks with you. like Visually, it's so powerful. like it's um It's so intense to like look at. It just like it just like triggers something in me that like makes me uncomfortable. And I think I'm just uncomfortable with death and that's okay. That's why I'm just going to live forever. I figured it out. Problem solved.
00:28:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:09
Speaker
But there was like was kind of thinking about the sort of representation of the Mayan culture because I feel like that is always something that I'm going to be like, I'm going to keep my eye on this.
00:28:23
Speaker
um I know that they did um specifically cast some people with Mayan ancestry, like indigenous people of Guatemala in the movie. Not everyone, but I think they did um take that step of at least like trying to do that. So i just want to be like Keep going. Like, don't stop there. Keep going.
00:28:50
Speaker
um Great. Yeah. But it is interesting. Like, I i feel like the um the Western story of these indigenous people and the sort of reality is so different when you, like, learn things about these cities that they built and how advanced they were and how much, you like infrastructure they had towards like cleanliness and irrigation and water and all of that. And it's like, I feel like that is always kind of missing because it's always simplified because it's, it's like caricaturized view that like the Western eye has on anything that isn't Western in origin where they always try to, oh look how cute this is.
00:29:37
Speaker
You know, like, yeah. which is just so gross and evil. And so, yeah it's always complicated seeing these kinds of characters exist in a movie that is made by someone who potentially has done level research, but not on a job.
00:30:00
Speaker
um You know, cause I, I don't know. I don't know how much work was done, but it's just like, yeah. the character's response of Tom, like to this priest and like this, this sense of like, I'm going to take from this tree. I'm going to take something that isn't mine.
00:30:20
Speaker
It is kind of satisfying to me as a viewer that like he goes, he takes, he finds out, he gets his answer, but then the tree eats him anyway e because it was never his.
00:30:33
Speaker
Yeah. And he can't take it because it's not his to take. Yeah. So it's like, That's why even you know the the priest is there is to like guard it and to care for it and not to use it, not to abuse it.
00:30:47
Speaker
So there's like a I don't know. don't know. Yeah. And it was, i feel like, very poignant that um to make in this story to make the sort of modern day Tom be like a research scientist who is like experimenting with compounds that are from...
00:31:08
Speaker
ah Central and South America because we know like so many medicines that we like use are derived from plants and animals and compounds from um those places because there's just insane amounts of like biodiversity and like amazing shit that...
00:31:30
Speaker
like exists in the sort of like Amazon and like the surrounding area. So it's a really interesting parallel to have this modern person trying to use plants. And I think he's maybe using like fungi from that. Someone like discover, you know, quote discovered um in the,
00:31:52
Speaker
the amazon to develop this drug that would cure his wife's cancer and it's like we are so still doing what the spanish conquistador was trying to do by trying to find the secret of life in this part of the world so like we're just gonna keep doing that but we're doing it in a different way yeah just trying to rebrand indigenous knowledge Whereas like the indigenous knowledge says death comes and like the rebrand is like, but I can tame it. And it's like, no, you can't though. yeah
00:32:24
Speaker
You can use these medicines to help things, but like there is an end.
Production Challenges and Visual Effects
00:32:28
Speaker
yeah And we found that out thousands of years ago. And it's like, but I'm new and I know everything. okay Yeah, it's, I mean, it's all this time. It really is. And so it's kind of nice that um the conclusion of the movie is, ah oh, sweetie, no. thank and Thank you. You can't.
00:32:49
Speaker
It's just like, you gotta accept it. So I don't know. I just like, I, I do wish that this, the, the film, cause I don't know if this was like on film, this still feels like it was pre purely digital. Yeah.
00:33:03
Speaker
Did you read about the effects that they used for the film? I didn't. Oh my gosh. Okay. Story time. um Okay. The like cursory ah research that I did very minimal first page of Google results as more than did because my Google results laughed in my face.
00:33:21
Speaker
um So the, the movie was originally developed ah a few years before it got made and it, um, was approved for a bigger budget and then um ah it was ah supposed to be brad pitt he dropped out to go do troy i so this is the era that we're talking about um remember everybody um so then like everything shut down um
00:33:51
Speaker
all the development of the movie kind of got like tossed. I think they actually had started building things and that stuff got sold. Like it was like, this movie is not happening.
00:34:03
Speaker
um So then like a couple of years later, um the writers and like Darren Aronofsky and everyone was able to rework the story and rework the plan for a movie that costs half as much as the original production did. And one of the ways that they did that was by not using any computer generated visual effects. Everything that they did was done through ah like all of the like nebulas and all of like the space stuff was done through um filming chemical reactions on like Petri dishes through ah camera.
00:34:47
Speaker
And i think that they made the right decision. looks incredible. It's a beautiful movie. like it It truly does feel like like artwork.
00:34:57
Speaker
It feels like a painting that is being moved in different chunks. It feels... you can You can feel all that work. and like it it You kind of miss it. like You recognize, like oh I miss whatever this feeling is that I'm walking away with. because it just yeah It's so different. Not saying that computer like CGI is not...
00:35:22
Speaker
good or interesting, but we are so heavily reliant on it and abusing like visual artists so poorly, like the VFX artists, visual effects artists, that um it's just like, there's a whole scope of incredible skills and like problem solving that people can get to to make something look really beautiful.
00:35:41
Speaker
And this is a great example of that. Because come on now, chemical reactions in a Petri dish, that ties to your story and it makes an incredibly beautiful visual.
00:35:52
Speaker
Yeah, I know. her And I'm sure like I know they still did film certain things like they used green screens like they're melding images together, but they didn't have enough money to like do this big like CGI, whatever, whatever. So I don't know how some of that played out in terms of like,
00:36:14
Speaker
you know like The image when he is at the Mayan temple and he like goes out and like sees the tree and we see the pool of water and we see the sky. like I don't know how they did that specifically.
00:36:25
Speaker
um But I know that they didn't have money to like do tons of CGI stuff there. But i I think that, yeah, it gives so much character and personality to the film that I i wish people would take a page out of this book. Like you don't need $200 million dollars to make a great movie. You certainly can make a great movie with $200 million, but like it doesn't guarantee that you make a great movie.
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah. And it's also like you you don't, we've seen a couple movies recently where there isn't, a massive amount of wardrobe that they're, it's like very deliberate for whatever reason. And this is one of those where like the Spanish storyline in the past, uh, Isabel is just wearing like one gown.
00:37:18
Speaker
We don't, yeah and she does show up again, kind of as this like ah ghost of acceptance or whatever, like in the, in the avatar version in the future where Hugh Jackman is wearing,
00:37:33
Speaker
this like ah feel like kind of like a gi inspired black outfit that's like a meditative outfit he's like a monk in space and he does wear that in the modern storyline too like we we do these flashbacks and flash forwards where he is the avatar And he's talking to a ghost essentially.
00:37:58
Speaker
and then snap, we're in the present time and he's wearing the same clothing, but now he has hair and he is not bald and he's talking to someone who's present and in front of him. And so like those cuts are like really interesting.
00:38:09
Speaker
So things, it just like aids in the blending, but we didn't need a massive court scene in Spain. It's a scene with three people where there's Or maybe like three or four people where it's Isabel and Tomas and then like another guy or two other guys. And that's not a lot of costumes.
00:38:30
Speaker
Nope. And so her her costume has a lot of very deliberate detail and a lot of work put into it. Like there's this really nice picture on IMDB where you can see that around her neck is this very, very, very delicate black lace.
00:38:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And like everything else on her is pretty much this deep like blood red and then shades of gold. And so it's just like all these things just and then on her head are like pearls and like these white ah jewels that kind of look like stars. And so it's just it's all very, very lovely and intentional. And for a production that had its budget slashed and then was kind of like brought back to life as like a smaller production, you can tell that there's just a lot of effort put in. It's not like half-assed because, you know, like when you think sometimes it's easy to think, and we'll talk about this anytime we have a modern movie, you can think, oh it's modern clothing. So it's not as hard. And it's actually harder to make people look like they're just normal in a place in time without like,
00:39:40
Speaker
dating them really and yeah there's like a lot of very deliberate stuff happening in here in order to tell the story that the color palette is is supporting and um yeah like this this gown this there was an exhibit for like the oscars or something the year that this came out Oh. And I was reading this blog called alleycatscratch.com and they have um like a post from 2007 about the 15th annual exhibition at FIDM for the art of motion picture costume design.
00:40:18
Speaker
And some costumes from this were on display as well as like Aragon costumes, Pirates the Caribbean, Dead Man's Chest, and like Superman Returns. Like, Fast Furious, Tokyo Drift, Nanny McPhee, a bunch of things. But um what they mentioned in this blog is the costumes highlighting the differences in color from the different points in time of the movie.
00:40:42
Speaker
yeah And how even though it aimed for a palette the white and the gold, that it had so much tone work going in between those things and it wasn't limiting it.
00:40:55
Speaker
And um don't know. I love a palette. That might read limited, but how much you can do in between the colors by going into tones and meets and everything. And you can do that in a way that people don't even realize that you've done that. Like they don't know that you've limited it, but you really have controlled it and focused in.
00:41:15
Speaker
And when people assume that everything is just a filter, but it's not, because I think that people could totally assume that some of this is like a filter and maybe a little bit is, but like, this is all very, very deliberate work to make these very deliberate sources of light and how everything else is affected by it.
00:41:34
Speaker
Yeah. her Beautiful to look at. And I'm going to shout out our costume designer for this film, ah who is Renee April. and um,
00:41:46
Speaker
They've done some pretty cool stuff. ah More recently, Blade Runner 2049. Hello. but They seem to have CV that's a lot of very sad things. Arrival. my god. Like...
00:42:01
Speaker
One of the best like sci-fi movies of recent times, in my opinion. um But also, you know we've got like Rise of the Planet of the Apes in there. like my god like there's the gamut The gamut is being run. Night at the museum, right after the fountain. like yeah We are all over the board. The Day After Tomorrow.
00:42:24
Speaker
Oh, my God. the red violin. Like there's tons of things that are very much all over the place. But there's a lot going on. It's also like really bittersweet or sad.
00:42:35
Speaker
Yeah. It's just like, oh, my God. It's one of those things where it's like sometimes this as a designer, you get kind of like known for certain
Genre Debate: Fantasy vs. Sci-Fi
00:42:43
Speaker
things. So it's like this is a this is a sad girl movie. Call Renee April. like we need it to feel...
00:42:51
Speaker
Heavy.
00:42:58
Speaker
Have you seen the other, like I would say, deeply polarizing... Darren Aronofsky film Mother? no i have not.
00:43:10
Speaker
Oh my god No, I saw Requiem for a Dream. oh i'm I never, that movie was incredible. I never, ever want to see it again. That's like exactly is that I saw that as a teenager and I went, nope, nope. No, just absolutely nope horrifying.
00:43:29
Speaker
I kind of want to watch Mother again. I watched that movie in the theater and I was enthralled and people hate that movie is a very divisive movie people have lot of feelings about it i know that without having to see it but it like i feel like this movie makes a lot of sense in context to that movie also existing because i feel like that movie takes a lot of
00:44:00
Speaker
similar things that this one does in terms of like, we have these competing narratives, the lines between them are not always clear. We're talking about the Bible. We're talking about life. We're talking about death. We're talking about all this stuff in a way that is like chaotic. Yeah.
00:44:16
Speaker
And I feel like this movie is like at like, an eight and like if if mothers attend this movie is like an eight like it it goes up a couple not just for that movie but uh i don't even know what i don't know what genre to put that movie and sometimes i see this one described as sci-fi i don't really consider it a sci-fi movie yeah the only thing that i think makes it sci-fi according to my dumb little baby brain is the fact that he's like in space but
00:44:50
Speaker
Like right on the avatar part is like floating in a, in a bubble in space. And that's like it. But to me, it feels like, it feels like it's firmly and, and maybe the fact that he's a scientist, I don't know, but it's like, I feel like this is a fantasy pretty solidly because it's,
00:45:09
Speaker
if like If I'm going by my interpretation as of this watch, which I'm not like entrenched in, it's just like if I'm going to go by it, you can explain it as like even a story to help a man get through grief where his yeah his wife wrote the first story.
00:45:26
Speaker
Like 98% of it and then left it to him to puzzle it out himself and write it down in context of the story that she created to help him. Yeah. And so it's like, that would be a fantasy, brother.
00:45:37
Speaker
like Right. And I like the space thing doesn't really... Do it for me in terms of like putting it in a different category, because the way that it hit me is I did not interpret that as happening. Literally, i interpreted that as happening to him spiritually inside.
00:45:55
Speaker
yeah but like, which maybe that's not what they intended. I don't think I think I'm actually wrong about that. I think I interpreted it literally on my first watches when I was a teenager because why not?
00:46:07
Speaker
Also, what a cool idea. But like even then, I don't think of it as sci-fi. No. Yeah. like i just it doesn't And maybe people have great arguments for why it would be, but it just occurred to me as a fantasy thing.
00:46:21
Speaker
And like yeah with all the intersecting timelines and and the dreaminess of it, it just feels very fantasy. Yeah. Yeah. and And I think this is like, this is a side of ah fantasy that I like to like gravitate more towards. Like I i love Lord of the Rings. um I love an elf.
00:46:40
Speaker
I love a forest. Oh, I mean, people think that fantasy is just limited to sword and sorcery, but it's just that, right? Like there's the genre sword and sorcery. Yeah. And then like, that's where you think of like dragons and like all of that stuff. Right.
00:46:52
Speaker
But fantasy can be so many different things. And this, this, I too am like drawn to things like this where it's, you can have somebody kind of experiencing something where it's not horror, but like, i think that horror can also walk this line where you're having your characters experiencing something through metaphor, even like where it almost feels like a forgive this phrase, like a tone poem. Like, it's just like, you know, like it just, it feels like,
00:47:22
Speaker
A heavy vibe. And it's not based off of reality. Like those are my. It's not based off of reality necessarily. It's an altered reality that a character is experiencing. Yeah. Because of.
00:47:34
Speaker
Whatever major emotion. Or whatever thing. They're experiencing that might feel like it's reality. They're experiencing it not realistically. Yes.
00:47:44
Speaker
And so. yeah Yeah. Because like this is not a movie. Yeah. This is like if you read the description and you're like Hugh Jackman's character is trying to come to terms with his wife's terminal cancer while also like researching like potential cures through like experimentation on primates.
00:48:02
Speaker
That is a movie somewhere. That's not what this movie is. Like it it it it's like 2% that and then not. Yeah. Like if you thought that's what you were going to see and you saw this, you'd be like, what is going on? Yeah. thats That's like directed by Jane Campion or
Costume Design and Craftsmanship
00:48:21
Speaker
something. That's a totally different thing.
00:48:24
Speaker
Yeah. Like I'm pretty sure that was like a made for TV movie in the 80s starring like Debra Winger. 100%. like some weird, uncomfortable close-ups of like, you know.
00:48:35
Speaker
commotion Yeah. Yeah. But like this, I think is so much more um powerful emotionally because it can take all of those insurmountable feelings and like give them visuals that express how this character these characters are feeling and the stakes involved in what's going on.
00:49:02
Speaker
so Yeah, agree. That's all. I do want to give a shout out to the wardrobe team that is listed because it's I did not count them, but I do have to scroll on my laptop. That's how many names were listed.
00:49:16
Speaker
And so there are just – there are like a few breakdown technicians listed. There's a bunch of seamstresses, seamsters, or if we are going to call them what some people call themselves now, sewists.
00:49:29
Speaker
But I don't know that that's crossed over into – you know, professional terminology. There's costume prop makers, um set costumers like who are, you know, present key dressers.
00:49:43
Speaker
There's just people who are listed and I'm happy about it. There's dressers and cutters and yeah look at you guys, wardrobe researchers. Love that. Shoppers.
00:49:54
Speaker
Like sometimes these are the guys that get like left behind in the IMDb. Like, yeah yeah, people have to shop for shit. ah Come on now. It doesn't come out of a magical tree. Someone has to go buy it at a store. yeah know they can't just like cut it off of a tree and then eat it, which is also a weird thing that we didn't talk about. don't really know where to put that.
00:50:15
Speaker
I don't know either. ah yeah but I feel like it falls into the pocket that we both kind of agreed with like the little horror part of this where it's like this man making his wife's death all about himself. Yeah. And just kind of like eating her up a little bit.
00:50:27
Speaker
No, no, no, no. yeah
00:50:34
Speaker
I feel crazy. Oh man. But I feel like it's, I would recommend watching this movie because it's, yeah there's beautiful work to look at. And it's also, and think a movie worth watching.
00:50:47
Speaker
um The music isn't like everything just fits together perfectly. Yes. To tell you story that leaves you with a lot of questions, which is yeah totally valid and fine.
00:51:00
Speaker
I appreciate that. Honestly, like i don't I don't really want everything to be like tied up in a little bow. Sometimes I do.
00:51:11
Speaker
Like a little baby. i mean, if I'm watching like a rom-com, that's what I want. But like, if I'm watching like an sort of experimental fantasy exploration of grief, I'm like, yeah, you can leave it up to interpretation. Please don't tell me this is what it is because nobody knows. Like no one has a definitive...
00:51:32
Speaker
answer like everybody experiences things like that so differently that it can be open yes yeah I do wish and like why I brought up that FIDM exhibit I wish we could see these Yeah.
00:51:49
Speaker
In person. Like I, I, I do wish, I wish that there were um very selfishly that there were, and not, not just selfishly, like for the, for the artisans that made it, like there is a costume couture exhibit that I believe is in the UK right now.
00:52:04
Speaker
um Because I've been seeing a lot of pictures of people who worked on productions standing by like a gown that they made for like Emma 2020. And they're like, this is my enemy. um made this dress. I hate her.
00:52:15
Speaker
i survived her. you know People are celebrating the work that they did and getting to show it. I do wish that we would have costume design exhibitions that are not just short term, that are actual long term exhibits um that maybe like get pieces swapped out from different productions, but that there was...
00:52:38
Speaker
more permanent costume design exhibits available in museums because like the work illustrative and also like design and just like the, the functional stitching, et cetera, the technique is all so beautiful and we never unless it's a movie that is like intentionally about what the people are wearing, we never ever get to see any of that work the way that it is in reality.
00:53:10
Speaker
So it's like, this is one that would be great. Cause like we do get a shot of like Isabel from above in that Spanish gown and we get some from the side and a little bit from the front, but it's all different sources of lighting. So the way that we see the gown is very different every time.
00:53:25
Speaker
yeah And it's like, I would love to be able to see all of these details that were put into it. I would love to be able to see how the the roots or branches were sewn on. Like, were they applicated? Were they not? Like, just, you know, dumb little technique questions. I'd love to be able to just, like, make my eyes about 25% bigger so I can see everything.
00:53:44
Speaker
yeah um But that's, like, a selfish wish. And this this movie, like, really hammered that home because the lighting is very often so dark that you don't really get to see those details. Yeah. so yeah But it's, like, we know they're there because...
00:53:58
Speaker
um we know what goes into building something that intricate and detailed and important because it's like that is the the one representation of that character. So like every thought and you know consideration is going to be taken because we're not making like 20 gowns. We're making one gown.
00:54:18
Speaker
For real. And there was one moment in this where I was like, how many of those did we have to have? Yeah. With jeans that Jackman had for the scene where he gets pulled into the bathtub with but Izzy. It's like, how many times did we have to shoot that?
00:54:33
Speaker
Was it just one magical time? Or did we have like six pairs of jeans dried and ready to go? Absolutely. i know. Just little questions ask.
00:54:44
Speaker
Just little question.
Episode Reflection and Teaser for 'Highlander'
00:54:45
Speaker
So yeah, that was a light ah light adventure for us. Just grappling with the issues that have captivated every civilization in the history of mankind.
00:54:58
Speaker
Yeah, we've we figured it out. No big. yeah Life and death. Grief. jack why Moving on. um but speaking of moving on, what are we watching next week?
00:55:10
Speaker
It's a beautiful question. ah so All right. Thank you so much for listening to this amazing, amazing episode. Damn it. I pulled up the wrong...
00:55:22
Speaker
for the wrong version because they are remaking it, but I'll still read the new new one. um Please join us in our next episode where we discuss a film about an immortal Scottish swordsman who must face off with other immortal warriors in order to obtain ah coveted ability.
00:55:43
Speaker
Now, I've read that and I'm so sorry to you, who Melinda, who has to edit this later, but i You have to look at the original synopsis. Do it. You got to do it. because need We need perfection here. we for real right now?
00:55:58
Speaker
An immortal Scottish swordsman must confront the last of his immortal opponents, a murderously brutal barbarian who lusts for the fabled prize. They just went for the same words.
00:56:12
Speaker
Wow. i Melinda, when was the last time that you saw this movie? Okay. I have seen this movie precisely one time. it was at like a sleepover when I was like 10. Phenomenal. And I believe the person hosting it was like, guys, this movie is really important to me. And I did not pay attention to it.
00:56:35
Speaker
i was probably eating a lot of candy and not watching the movie. I could have been painting my nails. I don't know. Okay. We probably saw this movie in the same year because I must have been about 10 because this used to be on TV all the time. So when I was at my grandma's is when I saw this.
00:56:52
Speaker
And I had no idea what the hell was happening. Later on, they had a TV show that's a continuation with like his cousin, guess. And it's just ridiculous.
00:57:02
Speaker
But I just... Friends, listeners, I'm so excited for us all to go on this journey together because all I need to do is just mention Sean Connery, who plays a Spaniard.
00:57:18
Speaker
who is originally from Egypt. That's right. Oh my God. And he never bothers to use any other accent than his own Scottish accent.
00:57:29
Speaker
Is dressed like a Spaniard in Scotland. Oh dear. It's incredible. This feels like the wild west of costuming.
00:57:42
Speaker
And I can't wait to talk about it. This also is going to be such a wiggy, wiggy, wiggy movie. Oh, I can't wait. Everybody's going to crazy wigs. And I'm just like so excited about it. i wish that i had I wish I had a wig that I could like wear while we were recording just to like get into You know what? I think that we might have to make that happen. So we're both going to have to wiggy.
00:58:03
Speaker
I have a wig that's like looking at me from my table right now. So we're just going to have to figure that out. Oh my gosh. so please join us this is such a messy intro please join us for watching highlander 1986 starring christopher lambert clancy brown and sean connery as well as some other legends um who dial in real amazing performances and this movie is another one of these movies this season is all about like all Most of the 80s things are things that like rewrote my brain chemistry, but this one was a really big deal to me when was a kid.
00:58:40
Speaker
I can't wait to talk about it with you. All right. all right We will see you next episode. ah See you then. Thanks for listening.
00:58:53
Speaker
Bye. Bye.