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Legend- More Glitter!!
1 Plays2 minutes ago
We are so dedicated to our craft that we went to see this one on the Big Screen and wow, it was a visual treat. This 80's cult classic has everything you could want in a film, assuming what you want is glitter.
Let's all go to the forest
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089469/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_7_tt_7_nm_0_in_0_q_legend
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Hot Set Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, welcome back to another episode.
Discussion of 'Legend' (1985) Movie
00:00:27
Speaker
This is an Ariel led episode because I did a movie and i forced Melinda into the world of legend from 1985, the Ridley Scott project starring Tom Cruise, Mia Sarah, Tim Curry, many other amazing artists.
00:00:44
Speaker
Yeah. Brief synopsis before we really jump into it. a young man, according to IMDb, must stop the Lord of Darkness from destroying daylight and marrying the woman he loves.
00:01:00
Speaker
Okay. Okay. i get where they're coming from. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. So ah let me offer some other information.
00:01:13
Speaker
Glitter. Glitter. In no sense.
00:01:20
Speaker
Daylight. Unicorns. Darkness. ah Elves. Goblins. Wind. The wind. More glitter. you know what?
00:01:31
Speaker
Throw even more glitter on top of that. that Yeah. Okay. I am ridiculous because I watched this movie probably the first time when I was like seven
Ariel's Personal Experience with 'Legend'
00:01:40
Speaker
or eight years old. So it made a big impact on my brain.
00:01:43
Speaker
um And it made me like the first 20 minutes of watching it, we got to see this re-released on screen locally for a cult movie series. And so seeing it on screen was definitely like a bucket list thing for me. and i was like giggly and yapping like for like 20 minutes of it. Just like, oh my God, I can't believe it.
00:02:07
Speaker
And so I'm going to probably carry some of that energy into this episode. So sorry, but it's me. That's just how it is. um I do want to acknowledge the designer for this movie, Charles node.
Charles Knode's Contribution to 'Legend'
00:02:19
Speaker
Knode. Knode. Knode. it's k n o d e um passed away in twenty twenty three um did this movie and i think the last things that he worked on were in two thousand two two thousand and three It's like Dinotopia.
00:02:37
Speaker
Yes, which I'm like, I don't know what that is, don't think. I wonder if it's British. He seems to have been British and a lot of his work seems to have centered either in British films or things that were filmed in England.
00:02:53
Speaker
Like Braveheart, designed for Braveheart. Some Monty Python credits, think. Did a Kate Bush music video? Blade Runner. Never Say Never Again.
00:03:04
Speaker
Blade Runner. Okay. um true Yeah. So that was his Ridley Scott era, I think. Yep. That was 82 and then Legend came out in 85. Yeah.
00:03:16
Speaker
So what a pairing. Good job, you guys. Yeah. Like fine wine. Wonderful. I feel crazy because this movie
Unique Theater Experience and Audience Interactions
00:03:27
Speaker
is crazy. I think it's also important to mention normally we both watch the movies like immediately before recording, but it's been five days, think. Yeah, this is very important.
00:03:38
Speaker
So this is going to be very, very based on like Yeah. And I also would really like to point out that I took not one single note during the movie. Not even.
00:03:49
Speaker
Didn't research the movie afterwards on my, I did not look up anything about it. so this is pure... Pure, unfiltered response. but yeah Just ah instinctive response, all of those things. The movie-going experience. We got great seats, top of the theater, all the way in the back by the projector.
00:04:08
Speaker
um a gentleman really wanted to sit next to us, which was not like my favorite. He and his friend came in together, sat one seat apart, because why would two men sit next to each other?
00:04:19
Speaker
Correct. And then he decided, why not throw another one in there? Put another empty seat in between him and his friend. So he had to speak louder when talking. To be heard by his friend. Yep. Right next to me.
00:04:31
Speaker
Yep. A lot of snacks, a lot of wrestling, a lot of getting up and leaving the theater. Yeah. Yeah, just a lot of like really, really enjoying the moment, if you will, in a different way. The gal sitting next to me on the other side um ended up sitting at 90 degree angle from the screen. So her knees were pressed up into the armrest between the two of us.
00:04:56
Speaker
And then she also really needed to talk to the person next to her. So then she had to like pretzel her body in a very strange way in order to be able to turn and talk to her friend, um which involved her almost coming over into my seat with her legs many times.
00:05:16
Speaker
So I i think it was an ideal viewing experience. it's for this movie. think so. yeah it was it was a almost a full theater, which was really surprising and awesome. The people were there. The people were passionate. Great the theater and the cult series. Love that. But I do fear that if I had even tried to take notes, my new best friend would have wanted to to edit I think so. he was very chatty. He did try to talk to us a little bit before the movie started in a very friendly way. But yeah, and we said, thank you. No, thank you. Here's our moment of, of you know, it's before the movie has started. Great.
00:05:55
Speaker
Comment, comment. We're done now. Thank you so much. We're here to focus. This is business. Yeah, this is a not for fun. This is serious.
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, this is homework. Yeah. For which I did not write a paper and I did not study a single thing. I have a few tabs open right now because I was trying to like get a few pieces of information.
00:06:18
Speaker
But no, no, no. I'm interested in information. No. I was telling a friend of mine. but Yes. you'll You'll support me. Thank you. friends Yeah. I was telling someone about us having gone to see this.
00:06:31
Speaker
And for about 10 minutes of me talking about it, because I was like starting to get into the soundtrack, which we'll get to eventually. I wanted to tell her about how affected I was because it was the next day. And i was like, I didn't fully cry, but I started to cry when the songs came in.
00:06:51
Speaker
Anyway, I was describing it to her. was like, oh, this was like a bucket list moment. And for 10 minutes of me talking about and the glitter and the unicorns and all this stuff, she thought I was talking about the Will Smith movie, I Am Legend.
00:07:03
Speaker
Oh. Because I did mention that I got to catch... oh I caught a wardrobe malfunction in this film and I am so freaking happy about it.
00:07:14
Speaker
And I'm not the only person i hope who's witnessed this because if you've had the the luxury of seeing this on a larger screen than a teeny tiny TV or a laptop, you will absolutely have seen this and like high vis.
00:07:26
Speaker
ah But she suggested, well, maybe they just were like, maybe i didn't fix it because they oh, we can edit and post. And I was like, this 1985. They were not editing. There was no edit and post. They could not edit this kind of thing. so No. ah I do...
Character Analysis: Jack and the Plot
00:07:42
Speaker
i I'm going to talk about it. It's not that big of a deal, but it is a big deal because I was like, what? I turned to you and I went, did you see that? And I stupidly missed it. I was so sad. Oh, because you were actually trying to watch the movie and see what the hell was going on.
00:07:57
Speaker
There's this, okay. So the story is that Jack, played by Tom Cruise before his teeth are central in his face. um This always has to be the detail that I lead with. He is still organic Tom Cruise. We need to know where we are on the timeline. Possibly pre- Scientology. And um he is this like almost magical forest orphan who's just like very connected to the earth and yeah has no home except for the forest. Very Peter Pan coated.
00:08:28
Speaker
Very Peter Pan coated. All green kind of like textury, leafy, viney kind of clothing. There's a lot of upper thigh showing. May potentially have led to the design of Link in um Zelda. I could see that.
00:08:42
Speaker
I can see that. And like, come on now. Shout out for that. But he is long haired, longer haired than you'd think because you miss the ponytail mullet.
00:08:53
Speaker
in most shots of the movie, but he's got long tiered hair. and then Mia Sara plays a princess in this like glowy white, you know, Renaissance-y kind of get up and like long hair, glitter on the face, like so all things. much glitter on the face.
00:09:12
Speaker
So much glitter. And he's got glitter on his face. There's a lot of face glitter. Incredible. Yeah. It comes and goes. It comes and goes depending on the situation. It's amazing.
00:09:23
Speaker
But ah she is this very innocent princess who likes to get up to a little bit of trouble and she doesn't like to do princessy things. Instead, she likes to run in the forest and hang out with her boyfriend, Jack. And then like, she is hashtag not like other girls.
00:09:37
Speaker
This is 100% an originator for that. oh She loves to go visit, you know, poor people like this woman now and like, you know, visit her baby and just like eat her cookies. I'm like, this woman is poor. Leave her food alone. like She's working so hard. She's just frolicking around like a problem.
00:10:00
Speaker
And so she's just like not really cognizant of how she affects the world because the world is there for her. Whereas Jack has a different perspective of how he is a part of the world. And so they are kind of diametrically opposed in this way of experiencing things. Mm-hmm.
00:10:17
Speaker
and um But they both are like young and in love and everything is so magical. And um then we meet you know like all these elves who have to help Jack on this quest to save a unicorn. and The last one, I think.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yes, because um her partner has been killed after our princess touched it and she was used by some evil goblins in a trap.
00:10:46
Speaker
And they kill one of the unicorns and saw off his horn. Yeah, you can't be touching unicorns. Cautionary
Character Analysis: Darkness and Tim Curry's Portrayal
00:10:52
Speaker
movie. Yeah. Yeah, you shouldn't be doing it. And so Tom Cruise's name is Jack, Mia Sarah's name is Lily. And then the goblins who saw off that horn, they have to take it to their boss, who is Tim Curry, playing the ever-loving hell out of darkness. The darkness. The darkness. who Do we ever see him from the waist down?
00:11:15
Speaker
ugly I don't think maybe there's like a shot where you see like ah ah a hoof foot, but I don't think we ever see like a leg. You know what I mean? Yeah, because Tim Curry is essentially minotaur. Yeah, like he has full body prosthetics, like his whole face.
00:11:35
Speaker
So good. it it's incredible. He's got contacts that are like neon green glow in the dark and neon green glow in the dark nail polish on his extended fingernails.
00:11:47
Speaker
He's got these claws. All of his skin that is visible is painted red. He might have some torso prosthetics. Don't know. But his teeth are fangs. Like he's got a fake chin, cheeks, like nose, ears, and these giant black shiny horns though and it is incredible and it's also like that must have been a hell of a job because that's a lot a lot of work to have done on you and that also explains why we don't see him from the waist down very often because yeah they had to concentrate all of that he still had to function as a person I'm sure that it was a massive undertaking for the makeup department and for him as an actor. Like I'm sure like we're talking mid eighties.
00:12:35
Speaker
I'm sure those prosthetics would be made of way different materials now. I mean, I'm ah obviously now it would literally just be CGI, but like, uh, That weight, I'm sure they were heavy.
00:12:47
Speaker
i'm sure they were thick. They looked so good, though. They were so well made. he just played with it so well. yeah And it's like you're supposed to like hate darkness, right? Because he's supposed to represent evil. And he wants to kill the unicorns so that there is no light ever again because with them comes the sun.
00:13:08
Speaker
But he's so camp, so camp and so like like Hades in the Disney animated Hercules, yeah you know? yeah It's just like... You gotta love it You don't have a choice. You come full circle to being like, okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. You got me.
00:13:27
Speaker
um this movie is very much a part of like the formula of the fantasy in that like shaped my brain as a child which i think you can definitely picture that regardless whether or not you liked or did not like which we will get to but this movie um because it is truly so covered in glitter that it really does feel magical production wise like you cannot escape that because um So they built a forest um at Pinewood Studios.
00:13:59
Speaker
I think it was like in a parking lot, but maybe it was inside of a studio. And they had to build the forest because they couldn't control the weather in a real forest, right? Like they, you can't control that. And so they had to manufacture this thing so they could actually cover it in glitter. And like they were adding flora to it, apparently like up until shoot date.
00:14:21
Speaker
Yeah. And um yeah so when we say glitter, we're talking more glitter than you can imagine. Like every item that you see, all the fake snow, um the trees, the leaves, the flowers, the people, every single thing you see is just a drowning in glitter. yeah And it creates this pretty incredible separation from reality because it really does feel magical. but And it also feels like a
00:14:55
Speaker
a climate emergency.
00:14:58
Speaker
And it feels a little bit carcinogenic. like What happened to all the stuff after the shoot? You have to incinerate that. We're still ingesting it to this day.
00:15:09
Speaker
And so it's like there's there's a snowstorm that happens where there's just all this fake snow being blown aggressively into actress faces with glitter in it. like It is everywhere. must have been so hard to be on that set. like It must have been it must have been a lot because Mia Sara as Lily, she gets tore up like she She recognizes that she fucked up by touching this this um unicorn and then she's like trying to follow the goblins to the lair of darkness.
00:15:38
Speaker
And then they catch her. But before they catch her, she's like being ripped apart by the wind and like the trees, like snow white as she's like running away from the castle to the forest, you know, like it was really well done. Like she's been through it. Can you describe how she starts with her, her costume before the process?
00:16:03
Speaker
So this is Mia Serra, the future Mrs. Ferris Bueller herself, pre Ferris Bueller. um She looks like an absolute Renaissance fair dream manic pixie Renaissance fair dream girl. Like she's in very.
00:16:24
Speaker
I would say Italian Renaissance inspired maybe clothing because there's a certain silhouette to that. Like it's very Juliet. It's white. um There's a lot of big billowing, beautiful trumpet sleeves going on. We've got like handkerchief hem situations happening.
00:16:44
Speaker
There's beautiful embellishment. I feel like there's beading and maybe some like pearl things. I'm trying to like scroll through and look for pictures. It's so hard because so much of this movie is like really tight close up on the face of everyone like a lot. Like up the nose. Yeah. There we go. Okay. I got a picture of her. and There's like gold accents happening.
00:17:09
Speaker
um There's beautiful lacing over like a sort of bodice that becomes like an over skirt chemise situation. um Her hair, she's got so much. There's like a beautiful, delicate net on the top of her head that is doing absolutely nothing to keep her hair up. It's just there to look beautiful. Like she's also looks very, very young.
00:17:38
Speaker
She looks like she's about 14. I don't know how old she was. She can't have been very old. which I think she was 18. she's um definitely a teenager. She's a baby. Yeah. She looks like a child, ah which becomes very creepy later in the movie.
Character Analysis: Lily and Her Transformation
00:17:55
Speaker
um But I mean, she's just like anyone who wanted to be a fantasy princess when they were a kid. For all of the people out there, she looks like the ideal of a fantasy princess. like it I don't know how else to say it. She looks perfect.
00:18:14
Speaker
She looks like... the opposite there I feel like there are two emotions that we can sometimes have when we want to be like the height of camp we want to be maleficent going down the staircase with that cloak just behind you as you go and like the whole top half of your body doesn't move at all but you're like floating down the stairs or you want to be the opposite which is a chaos gremlin pretty pretty princess running and everywhere you go there's like lightweight fabric like following you because you have like cloak or cape or skirts or whatever happening not everybody has these two these two sides but i feel like there's a stage that some of us go through where we want to be either one of these two things
00:18:57
Speaker
Yeah. I got two dogs in me. One of them is Maleficent and one of them is Princess Lily from Legend. And she just like they the distressing of of her character is...
00:19:13
Speaker
fantastic because like as you said there's a lot of close close close ups so you really do see the makeup like you see that glitter and it is not hiding that it is glitter it's a little bit organic in application but it's like high cheekbones by the eyes you know where you're going to catch the light on all of these close ups and then she's just being just torn apart like through this movie and it doesn't feel I mean, she does get sexualized for sure, but the distressing of her dress does not feel as sexualized right as it could be elsewhere where it's like, oh no, you have a giant tear.
00:19:55
Speaker
Now all your legs are showing, you know, like that kind of thing. Like, no, it's what would happen if you had to be running through a forest during a storm and like, how would your, they're not really stays, but it's a laced up.
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah. Bodice situation. Like how would that come apart? Like how would these things kind of like tear off? Like what sleeve would survive? Where would mud go?
00:20:20
Speaker
and it's like very, very subtle, but not subtle because like full pieces of clothing are missing, but it's also like it's happening kind of subtly. So you aren't like slapped in the face with it. You're like, oh my God, there she is.
00:20:34
Speaker
Yeah. She's really been through it. Yeah, it's not like she gets dunked in like a vat of mud immediately or something. It happens over the course of like her following these goblins and like running and getting like, sort of waylaid by snow. Like it happens over a little time. So you actually see it. There's multiple stages of her kind of coming apart as she's running through the forest.
00:20:58
Speaker
And on the flip side, before we get to one of the most important questions that I have to ask you. Yeah. Jack is pretty well, well kept together because he's just got his little like Peter Pan, like leafy outfit and his mullet never goes anywhere. It's tied very securely at the back of his head.
00:21:15
Speaker
Yeah. So securely, you might not know it's there. this world He understands the world. He understands how to function in this world. So he's equipped to deal with it.
00:21:26
Speaker
We do see a hint of a Mission Impossible run, like the run that Tom Cruise is famous for. But he gets an upgrade to his costume, which I do like his costume, because just like we were talking about Excalibur, how it felt very stage costume with all like the heavy woolen and like linen-y kind of textures.
00:21:47
Speaker
His costume feels very much of that. So this feels like ah logical descendant that movie. um But he is an upgrade kind of like a Bilbo with um this like a piece of this like, what do we even want to call it?
00:22:07
Speaker
This like armor Yeah, because it's not chain mail. It's scale mail, I guess. Yeah, scale mail. it looks like it's made of coins. Yeah, gold coin mail. Coin scale mail.
00:22:18
Speaker
And he has this like sword that he doesn't know how to use until he knows how to use it. And then he's just like, oh, that's what you do. You kill people with it. What? he has bare legs.
00:22:29
Speaker
but he has bare legs I'm sorry. The amount of time that he spends in like a full body squat in this movie is incredible.
00:22:44
Speaker
And he looks so comfortable. so comfortable. looks natural. He's like a little acrobat. He's basically, who's Spider-Man right now? ah Tom Holland. Yeah, he's ah his Tom Holland, like where Tom Holland is an acrobat. And that's what does Tom Cruise was the same.
00:23:01
Speaker
o And so... he's He's got very, i feel like his costume must have been pretty comfortable aside from the like exposed legs and how many times he has to flip all over the place and cold air being blown at him.
00:23:18
Speaker
But um there is a moment where Jack and the elves are following behind Lily and the goblins and he's like searching for her. But they take a slight detour to see that the the male unicorn is dead.
00:23:32
Speaker
And um Jack has this giant cloak that one of the elves has put on him. And I'm saying elves very loosely. There are many different kinds of fey creatures.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yeah, they're just sort of... Little forest forest guys. Fairies. Yeah. And, you know, slightly alcoholic forest fairies. And he like puts on this furry fur lined hooded cloak over Jack's shoulders and,
00:24:02
Speaker
And so what we see for the longest time is just this like very thick strap across his chest. And then the hood is up, then it goes down and he's holding a lantern.
00:24:13
Speaker
And this was a moment that I was so excited about and I'll be excited about it forever because hallelujah, there it is. He raises up the lantern to see the unicorn in the distance. And as he raises up his arm, the hood goes back even further and you see, right? I think above his shoulder,
00:24:31
Speaker
that where it was? Like ah behind? think so, yeah. In between his neck and his shoulder, where the strap connects with the cloak, is a giant honking safety pin.
00:24:43
Speaker
Safety pin! know, those medieval tools, the safety pin. ah And this is why I said they couldn't edit it. Because like, what are you going to do? You can't airbrush that out, I don't think, at that time. And like, you didn't want to call cut? No, they wanted to...
00:24:58
Speaker
print film is expensive so you get this flash of this and it's not a small safety pin it's a pretty big one it's like two and a half inches or something like it's a it's a big solid guy and it's holding on for dear life and i was just like yes my moment Those are the kind of safety pins that you know only like the wardrobe on set person is like, oh my God, solve this problem immediately. That was a problem.
00:25:27
Speaker
And it was like, we couldn't fold it over the safety pin. We just had to go straight in. Just like hope that it's not going to be caught on film. Meanwhile, she's having her moment. This is her small song. and Like catching. Because it's a moment where he's supposed to be catching light. So it's like she lights up real bright. And it was just like, oh, this is amazing. The light just glinting off of this beautiful safety pin. Glowing. And I was like, oh, yes.
00:25:58
Speaker
And it's like they cut back and forth from this. So it's like we... We didn't have a clean shot without it, i guess. We didn't have a clean shot at all. and ah Glorious. Okay. So before we continue on in this ah mad dash through this movie, because it is totally a hodgepodge of just impressions of um our memories. Yes. Experiences. Yeah.
00:26:21
Speaker
what was your experience of seeing this movie for the first time? yeah As an adult. so yes, our first viewing of this movie was separated by about 30 years of time. So i yes, this was my first time ever seeing this movie.
00:26:35
Speaker
um hadn't even really ever heard of it before this um until we were talking about doing this season and Ariel was like, well, we have to watch legend. And I was like, Oh, okay.
00:26:48
Speaker
um so um It was certainly an experience. It's kind of surprised. I feel kind of surprised that I never heard of this movie before, considering it's a Ridley Scott Tom Cruise movie.
00:27:05
Speaker
um But I think that seeing it in the theater was probably the best case scenario. It was much more... fun to be around other people and have it be on the big screen and like do all of that. I think that watching it at home, like alone before a recording session would not have been fun.
00:27:26
Speaker
So um yeah, I don't know what, I don't know what words to use. I don't know what this movie is. i don't know. I think I can maybe provide some words.
00:27:39
Speaker
This movie is a fever dream. This, this feels like, Before in fantasy storytelling on film, people came to a consensus that you needed to have character development
Visual Spectacle in 'Legend' and Narrative Simplicity
00:27:53
Speaker
and plot. And they just were like, agreed that it should be as shallow as possible because that's where we're at in storytelling.
00:28:00
Speaker
And like visually you're so like inundated with um kind of like pre JJ Abrams lens flares because of all of the glitter and everything that you have this like haziness happening, this like smoky haze.
00:28:14
Speaker
It feels very, very produced. like The production design is incredible. The prosthetic design is incredible. Hair and makeup is wonderful. I think the kind the costumes are great.
00:28:24
Speaker
But this is a fever dream because like there's not really ah deep story for you to hang on to. and to follow it's quite straightforward and simple it's so very straightforward it's like a post-it note that has been like bloated with visuals yeah and even though the stakes are supposed to be like an eternity of darkness versus you know life it doesn't feel that deep or heavy it feels campy fantasy ah hundred percent
00:28:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's certainly a very confident and cohesive vision, i think, as a story. Like, this movie knew what it wanted to do. And i i hope that everyone involved felt like they did it because the effort is on the screen. i feel like it's clear. Like, what everyone was trying to do is, like, up there on the screen to see.
00:29:21
Speaker
um It's very, ah I would say, emotionally driven. like Everyone's emotions are big. It's like operatic in that sense of like this is the most important thing that has ever happened. which i mean like Yes, the stakes do have to be that high if we're talking about like heaven, hell, life, death, darkness, light. like That's what the stakes have to be.
00:29:47
Speaker
um
00:29:50
Speaker
And it's so hard because i find a a lot of like more contemporary movies to be like missing the emotional stakes like playing out across like actors faces.
00:30:06
Speaker
And I feel like this movie is like the polar opposite. Like every feeling and thought that someone has in this movie is like their emotions are so big. yeah And it makes sense in this movie that it is like that.
00:30:19
Speaker
um But to it's kind of like overwhelming to behold a viewer. It feels like a fairy tale. It feels like a fairy tale when you're like reading it or it's being read to you when you're younger. yeah You're not really looking for the same hard world building as like a Tolkien-esque kind of thing.
00:30:44
Speaker
um You're just looking for... there's a hero and there's a maiden and there's a bad guy and then there's magic. And like, you get all of those things really thrown at you.
00:30:56
Speaker
And so I have this like deep nostalgic love for it, but I also the middle of the movie you like start to like dissociate yeah because it's just so much of the stakes are being told to you and shown, but you're not like in it, you know, like there's not, Oh no, Lily, don't put on the evil dress that you've been dancing with. Like, you know, um,
00:31:25
Speaker
Which we will talk about. But it's just like, you know, you're you're on the ride. And as soon as it starts, you're on the ride. And it's like, I always, I think, as a kid assumed that Jim Henson Studios had something to do with it.
00:31:38
Speaker
And I don't think that they do. And I feel like all of these artists, ate there was something in the water in the 70s and 80s, and I think it was cocaine. That or LSD?
00:31:51
Speaker
Both. Just like all of it.
70s and 80s Fantasy Film Aesthetics
00:31:53
Speaker
But like there's just like something magical to me about like the puppetry and the prosthetics and like the this style of fantasy from the 70s and 80s that like we generally think of when we think of labyrinth.
00:32:09
Speaker
yeah This is like on a plane with Labyrinth for me. yeah um It just doesn't have the same like cultural cachet and the same puppets. Like it doesn't have puppets really.
00:32:22
Speaker
Like it has a lot of actors with prosthetics. And so it's like there's there's kind of this like heart to it that the Henson Studios could add to things. That isn't quite connecting necessarily with like the longevity of it.
00:32:36
Speaker
Unless you were affected by it at some point in your life. And then you kind of like love it always. yeah um But like it is just so appropriate for this part of our season. Because it is that like proto fantasy in film.
00:32:51
Speaker
And like when people were really starting to like... go full speed ahead because the budget on this must have been insane. Like the fact that they built an entire forest, God forbid I research any of this, the cost, the the costume and wardrobe department is actually listed and it's not just for people. it's it's a team of people.
00:33:12
Speaker
and um, There's a lot of costume makers listed, design assistants, like not just the wardrobe supervisor or costume supervisor are listed. There's, you know, makers listed ya and costume painter. And so it's just like, there there's a lot of work that had to go into making this happen.
00:33:31
Speaker
And, but at the same time, it's just so interesting to see like, Where costume goes in fantasy like throughout the decades because like we start so heavy and like you said like Italian Renaissance, Peter Pan, medieval England and then like medieval England really really has a chokehold on Western fantasy.
00:33:56
Speaker
Yep. and that is pretty amazing. And by amazing, I mean it positively and negatively because it's so limited,
Evolution of Costume Design in Fantasy Films
00:34:04
Speaker
but I also mean it positively because like medieval clothing isn't tailored the way you think of tailoring like um suits and things, but it is tailored in the sense that clothing is not commonly tailored now, which makes it seem heightened no matter what, because it is closer fitting to the body. So you can do really cool things with silhouettes and,
00:34:25
Speaker
Um, and there's like long flowing hair and excuses for all of these like finishing techniques that are shiny and, you know, glittery to have all these really cool effects and like big billowing sleeves.
00:34:40
Speaker
Um, But at the same time, it's interesting because this movie, the the cast of characters is pretty small. Yeah, it's a very intimate people journey.
00:34:52
Speaker
like yeah We do have a cast of elves that join um Jack as he goes on his adventure and he becomes the champion. but like There's only like four of them. There's only four or so. Yeah.
00:35:05
Speaker
You know, we get like a couple little guys like come in and out. um Yeah. But even darkness, like he's in there, but he's not there forever. He's right he's there in little chunks of time.
00:35:17
Speaker
And it's like, you know, your your journey. I think that's another reason why this doesn't feel so deep is that you don't really have a connection with the fellowship, if you will, right of characters who are gump.
00:35:32
Speaker
Right. um Is it Screwball, of Brown Tongue Tom, maybe Blunder, and Una? And so it's like, it's these these this little crew who's there to be like, oh, well we we're in it now, I guess. And sure they're more like a metaphor, I feel like, these yeah people who join um Jack because Jack's whole thing in the world is that he's like of the world, right? And Lily is...
00:36:02
Speaker
not experiencing it the same way thus she kicks off this whole catastrophe and she kind of has to learn to protect the world as it is and to be a part he's like of the forest of the forest and she is of the world that's like she's like town world castle world which we don't even see we do never see that world we see her immediately in world world and So like we don't even have the contrast. We don't yeah need it actually. No, because like successfully her her clothing and her hair tell us who she is.
00:36:37
Speaker
Yeah. And people refer to her as princess, but like she is fairy tale princess and she looks exactly the part. And like she literally is like a ballet dancer flitting through this world. Like she is doing this like, what would you even call the way that she walks?
00:36:54
Speaker
It feels like she's flitting around from like place to place. Yeah, there's so much arms up. Her arms are up in the air. um I would say, yes, I think flitting is good. she's um don't even know. like i don't know any other words to describe what she's doing. But she's like dancing through the world. like she doesn't She's not stepping with like full weight on her feet for a really long time.
00:37:21
Speaker
And there's a scene where we really get to lean into that where Darkness has decided that he needs to sway her over into his um business plan, essentially. like um He's like, well, the two final things I need are I need to kill a unicorn and I need a lady, a lady friend, and you're going to be a lady friend. Yeah.
00:37:43
Speaker
That's like a blueprint for life. We all get it. If I destroy her in no sense, which by the way, let's just spend a moment on this. The very beginning of Emma 2020. The priest. I did not know that's where you were going. but he says it the same way.
00:38:02
Speaker
ah In like the sermon where it's the first time that we're really getting to spend some time with those callers that go like mid cheek. He's talking about this is the season of our innocence. And Bill Nighy is like, you know isn't it just innocence?
00:38:19
Speaker
innocence. That's what Tim Curry's doing here. And he's just really relishing as Tim Curry does words. And so she is what represents innocence to darkness.
00:38:33
Speaker
And he's like, if I can get her on side, then I win that half. And then I can kill actual innocence and the power of the unicorns. But he's like being told by his minion blicks,
00:38:44
Speaker
um to woo her. and to or Maybe it's not just her not just Blake's, but it's also like some weird, creepy voice coming from his fireplace. It's like, you should woo her. and and the voice know The voices are telling him. The voices are telling him like to to get her gently on side and not to try to force her. So he puts out this gown But when she when she finds it, and she's in her like wreckage of her, of course, white and gold and very light colored, innocent looking outfit. This is you know so so black and white, literally. where The gown is in black glitter and has like this crazy collar and big sleeves.
00:39:29
Speaker
And there's a dancer in it. Massive plunging neckline that goes down to the wing Massive. it It is just like this very slender V that goes really far down. Yeah, it is a statement.
00:39:41
Speaker
But there's a dancer in it wearing, you know, like a black stocking kind of situation body covering. And so she dances with this gown. And so she has like all these opportunities for all these very flowy costumes that are just dancer-friendly. And usually dancers are like, strip it down, you know because everybody wants to show the line of the body. Gotta have a clean line.
00:40:05
Speaker
oh my god, Ariel, the line. Cats on stage. Mephistopheles. But it's like... You can also highlight the the movement of the body with lightweight fabrics, right? That like really move organzas and just like very light flowy things.
00:40:22
Speaker
And this is a perfect example of that, of like this dream dance. I love this movie. Yeah. but It's just, it's just, there's so many things to say against it.
00:40:35
Speaker
The treatment of animals in this is horrendous um because like there are real animals like in the forest, there are real horses who are portraying the unicorns and animals do not get a contract that they can read and understand. They're just put into situations.
00:40:51
Speaker
yeah And so this is very much a movie from before people really thinking about animals and at all it feels like um so I do want to call it out for that because I do recognize that and this was like my first time watching it like deep in adulthood going like wait a minute right ok these are not fake animals this is this is real yeah There's like a real fox at one point. Tom Cruise is like holding it. It's very crazy looking. Just cutting this little fox. And there's a moment where the character Blunder, played by Kieran Shaw, who is an actor that we have seen a lot of things over the past like 20 years, 20, 30, 40 years.
00:41:33
Speaker
um He is, he's been prepared into a pie. he has not been baked into the pie, but he's been like set into it. And they rescue him by pulling off the pie top and a pigeon flies out or like a couple pigeons fly out.
00:41:48
Speaker
And I'm just like, there's this man in a pie with a bunch of live birds. Like, this is not cool. Yeah, that's wild. It's just crazy. Okay.
00:41:59
Speaker
Okay. So i have a I have a question for you about the black dress, specifically Mm hmm. who This like delicate little woven-y looking headpiece, is that made out of hair?
00:42:19
Speaker
I spent every scene that we see her with that trying to figure that out. And I don't know. Because I think in the past, I thought it was a headpiece that her hair was woven into.
00:42:29
Speaker
Right. um And this time, i just don't know. Let me actually look for a picture. So hard to tell. Like it could be very much like a, I mean, obviously either way, it's like ah a thing being put onto her head. It's obviously not like someone did not sit there and like style her actual hair into this contraption. We know this, but yeah but it's like it looks like it could made of hair. Because it looks like
00:43:00
Speaker
It looks like very, very glossy. yes Like wig hair, right? Right. um And I'm sure it's very glittery because by war it'd be. Of course. I'm trying to see if there's a better picture.
00:43:12
Speaker
But I was very fascinated by trying to figure out if that was hair or some other substance that just kind of looks like hair. Either way, it looks like hair. And so it it has the effect of looking like this...
00:43:28
Speaker
headpiece, not really a crown, but this giant headpiece made out of almost like very thinly braided hair that's been wired into shapes to like hold very specific crisp curls and stuff.
00:43:44
Speaker
like It's a very aggressive like hairstyle because the rest of the movie, her hair is very soft right and gently curled. and so This is very, very, very much the opposite. And i I do love it so much because I can't tell what it is and because it is so the opposite of what her character looks like the rest of the time. Yeah, they really killed it on making her look so different when she's in this black look. like Everything about it is like the opposite of
00:44:15
Speaker
the look that she has the rest of the movie. So it's like really, really well done through contrast to be like, yeah, this is evil. Mia, Sarah, basically. It's like evil goth Mia, Sarah, because she's got this like eye makeup.
00:44:30
Speaker
This is the thing that I miss is eyebrows yeah um from film because she does not have perfectly manicured eyebrows. Like they're combed and maybe set a little bit, but they're not perfectly shaped.
00:44:42
Speaker
Yeah. And then like the eyeliner feels like it's applied by a blunt pencil. It doesn't feel like by blunt, I mean like a softened pencil that doesn't have like a fine point.
00:44:54
Speaker
Because she has this like very goth look where it's like she's been covered in like white paint. So like trad goth. and like She's got black eyeliner around her eyes and the eyeliner like goes down at the corners almost as if it's following like a natural like tear track. Right. But it's like smudgy. It's not nice. So it's not like, it's also not smoky eye when you're thinking of smoky eye. Like it's, it's very deliberate in where it's messed up a little bit And then she's got like black lipstick and the crispy curls like all over the place. Yeah.
00:45:28
Speaker
It's fantastic. It's fantastic. And yeah, So she matches now darkness who, while he is this like red minotaur, he has this very awesome black cloak that has these shoulder pieces and does not cover the front of his body at all. It's just like on the shoulders, his arms are through. So there's fabric in front of the shoulders and then connected on the back.
00:45:51
Speaker
And it is amazing. i I wish that I could see whatever is happening on his shoulders in the light because it's like these giant like beaded epaulettes that are like very organically artistic.
00:46:07
Speaker
You know, like they're not looking like official or military. They look just like really cool. Yeah. want to see them up close.
00:46:19
Speaker
Like it would be cool to see an exhibit of these costumes. Yeah, like it would be really nice. like I spent so much time like trying to see details of costumes, but there' a lot of the movie is just not in these like wide shots where you can like see a lot.
00:46:36
Speaker
And it's also from that point in film where everything's a little bit fuzzy, so it's not crisp. like You can't really anything. A bunch of details. So true.
00:46:47
Speaker
And I don't know, but there you can tell that there is a lot of detail work done in here, like Una and her little like lacy fairy wings seem very, very cool. There's a picture specifically.
00:47:00
Speaker
that makes it look like her wings are lace, like stretched between wire. um There's just like so many shiny accessories because everybody was on board with the the the design um ethos, I guess, of like make it shinier, make it glitterier. Yeah.
00:47:20
Speaker
glitter Glitter, glitter, glitter, glitter. Not enough glitter. Must have been the note over and over and over again. I mean, it truly feels like people had buckets and leaf blowers and they were just like, let's go.
00:47:33
Speaker
i felt like the beginning scenes when it's just kind of like the forest, there's so much like particulate matter floating through the air that I was like, I'm going to start sneezing.
Environmental Concerns and 'Legend's' Influence
00:47:46
Speaker
I need to take a Claritin.
00:47:48
Speaker
Like just watching the film, I'm like, i that would have been really tough to film in that environment because I feel like you'd constantly be like inhaling. Because even like before the before anything bad happens when they're just in the forest, there's just like I don't know. It just looks like pollen floating through the air like the entire time. Like, I don't know what it was actually made of, but it looks insane. no it feels like there's pollen in the forest and glitter.
00:48:15
Speaker
and it feels like there's dust and hay and grass particles and glitter in the dungeons. So it's like no matter where you go, you're just like deeply breathing in all this stuff that you shouldn't be breathing in. Plus, like whatever fake snow kind of recipe they were using during the snowstorm, which...
00:48:34
Speaker
God only knows because they use so many different things and some of them are absolutely like asbestos. and So it's just like – It's insane. Who knows? But this this just like feels on the timeline of like – always say that it feels like fantasy movies really got their feet under them with the Peter Jackson of the Rings in 2001 when the fellowship came out.
00:48:59
Speaker
yeah Because people could be like, oh, you can take these really seriously. But but but the designers were taking this seriously. They were taking legend seriously. The design is very, very not half-assed.
00:49:15
Speaker
yeah But the way that the people who are... funding the movie or marketing the movie, you know, or like, right. Even like writing the stories and, you know, thinking about what characters look like and what they wear. You can draw a straight line. I feel like from Lily to like Arwen, where it's like this very Renaissance gown kind of shaping happening but at least there is some difference in their closeness to weapons um but like and like we understand arwen's motivations a little bit more she's got a little bit more depth to what she wants what she cares about the character development the lore is all different yeah and we're also not
00:50:01
Speaker
always limited to white means good and black means bad. But at the same time, we definitely are still there. So it's like, yeah you know, in the Lord of the Rings, Saruman is all white, but he's, he's a bad guy. So it's like the color coding that happens in textile is being played with, but it's also like, okay, but all the, um,
00:50:29
Speaker
denizens of mordor all basically wear black so it's just like the kind of storytelling happening in costume yeah like we still have to buy into the premise in order to be able to subvert it like you still have to buy into the premise that like white means good and then if you put like an evil guy in white it's like oh surprising because oh my god he really threw me for a loop like oh my god but he's in white doesn't that mean he should be good but he's yeah it's And so like, I think what I mean when I say that like, we, we see like in film fantasy movies being treated seriously 2001 with, with the fellowship of the ring and the Lord of the Rings trilogy is that we see more, more, more, because like in this movie, there are really cool details, but it's, there's only so many characters. It's, it's like a play's worth of characters. It's not that many bodies. Yeah.
World-building in 'Legend' Compared to Other Fantasy Films
00:51:23
Speaker
That you see costumes on. So like we don't really get a full development of a world. We don't see a village scene. We don't see an army of goblins. We just see like three or four at a time. And that's it. And like maybe when we see Nell, the poor person. Yeah.
00:51:40
Speaker
Lily goes to visit and steal cookies from. We see like her husband at one point. so it's just like right two people representing something that isn't the wealth that Lily comes from.
00:51:51
Speaker
And then Jack is something different because he's like a magical orphan child in the forest. So we don't really see the world building as deeply. We're just kind of thrown into what's happening, but we don't have context of like, what else is going on in this place? Who are these people?
00:52:08
Speaker
And so it's like, it's very magical in that way. But it also, I think one of the reasons that Labyrinth goes even further is not only David Bowie, but because we do see more world building, because we do see more bodies and more creatures,
00:52:20
Speaker
And we see more difference, you know, and like have these scenes of lots of people like the the masquerade ball where it's like just so many different people and so many different people.
00:52:33
Speaker
shapes and colors to like emphasize how dreamlike everything is. And so that's being told differently through prosthetics in this movie.
00:52:43
Speaker
It's very much like leaning on prosthetics and, um and like the actual, world that you're seeing the design of the world and so like i i love this but it's it's not like the the best costume fantasy movie because there aren't a million costumes but i feel like it's a very logical one to have to like go by when you're talking about fantasy movies Yeah, it's certainly a part of the history. It's part of the progression. It's part of the timeline yeah that we all travel
00:53:22
Speaker
I don't know what I'm saying. We're both locked in the fever dream that is this movie. because Once it gets you, it takes you away. You don't come back from it. So this might be a messy episode, whatever.
00:53:35
Speaker
think it's actually pretty coherent, honestly. Cool, because I feel like I've just like blacked out. But um i I love the design in this movie. like No matter what the content of the movie is or how deep it is or isn't.
00:53:51
Speaker
The way that it looks is so specific because nobody else was doing this insane ah glitter madness and soft mall photo studio blowout glow everywhere.
00:54:06
Speaker
Yeah. It is pretty unique. like You can kind of see like there's certain elements of it that you can kind of see like in other forms and other movies and things, but not like the sum total. it's I think it's it's definitely its own visual language that nobody else really did like this.
00:54:27
Speaker
And I think, and this was that this was the thing that I was trying to verify before we started recording, I think that that the forest in the studios, I think that it burnt down.
00:54:41
Speaker
That's sad. i hope that's not true. yeah I think that it burnt down and I can't remember why. But on YouTube, dear listener, there is you can watch a behind the scenes like little movie about the making of legend.
00:54:57
Speaker
And it's called Creating a Myth, the Making of a Legend. And it seems like there are three parts. And so the story might be might be in that. But I remember watching a video some long time ago that told the story of the making of the forest. And I don't remember anything about costumes.
00:55:17
Speaker
I don't know they talked about them at all. I hope so. Well, Thank you so much for for meeting me on a crazy night um to go watch this movie in theaters because that truly was a dream. And like if any this ever comes out in anybody's town and you get to that chance to watch it on the big screen, say hello to the safety pin for me.
00:55:36
Speaker
ah Yeah, I think it's certainly like if you're going to watch this movie, I think that is probably the best way. it deserves to be seen on a big screen because of what it's serving in terms of visuals. Yeah.
00:55:49
Speaker
And that way you can you can really enjoy how much every designer and every craftsperson on this movie like really put a lot of work in. Yeah. Celebrate them. Yeah.
00:56:02
Speaker
I have no idea where we are placing this in the season, so I don't know what movie comes after this. Well, thank you so much for making me watch this movie, and I hope that it inspires someone listening to this to watch it too.
00:56:17
Speaker
um We have not, because we are recording these out of order because we you know we only had one chance to see this in the theater, we have not placed it in our release schedule, so we don't have the next movie to announce, but by the time this comes out, we'll know what it is. So let's both think about what the next movie is going to be.
00:56:37
Speaker
And maybe people will psychically absorb it. Even we'll, we'll try to figure it out, but please join us next time for another movie. As we continue our journey through the fantasy genre and explore all of its different facets that we can handle this season.
00:56:57
Speaker
ah
00:57:00
Speaker
Thank you for a glorious outro. so welcome and thank you all for listening we'll see you next time bye bye