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The Green Knight- He's Kind of a Tree
14 Plays6 days ago
Wow this film is gorgeous from beginning to end. A testament to the idea of pared down graphic design done by true artists. Please check the movie out if you are intrigued. And then give this a listen! Or just listen anyway! Live your life
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9243804/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_the%2520green%2520knight
https://www.vogue.com/article/the-green-knight-malgosia-turzanska-interview
https://turzanska.com/the-green-knight
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Hot Set Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
Overview of The Green Knight
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode. We are pretty much right in the middle of our fantasy season, I think. i I mean, I didn't really count, but it feels like we're in the middle. So ah we must be if that's how it feels. um We are here today to talk about the 2021 film The Green ah which is starring our British friend Dev Patel, as well as Alicia Vikander, Joel Edgerton.
00:00:55
Speaker
The movie is directed by David Lowery. And a very ah brief synopsis of the film, courtesy of IMDb, is...
Initial Reactions and Themed Viewing
00:01:07
Speaker
An epic fantasy adventure based on the timeless Arthurian legend, the Green Knight, tells the story of Sir Garwin, King Arthur's reckless and headstrong nephew, who embarks on a daring quest to confront the eponymous Green Knight.
00:01:24
Speaker
An emerald skinned stranger. Also a weird phrase. Garwin contends with ghosts, giants, thieves, and schemers in what becomes a deeper journey to define his character and prove his worth in the eyes of his family and kingdom by facing the ultimate challenger.
00:01:41
Speaker
Okay. yeah I would say kind of. Yes. um This movie, I remember hearing about it when it came out and I was really eager to see it.
00:01:57
Speaker
ah I was not going to movie theaters at the time because it was 2021.
Visual Storytelling and Imagery
00:02:03
Speaker
So i believe that we sort of I can't remember if it was specifically for this movie, but we like engineered a movie theme month where I was like, I want to watch The Green Knight. How do we make that happen? and i um And I think we ended up that month watching all movies with colors in the title of the movie. Yeah.
00:02:27
Speaker
which worked out well. um But yeah, I really enjoyed the movie the first time. um and it sort of had recessed in my memory to like a collection of images at this point. So it was really nice to go back and watch it again and kind of refresh myself on specifically what happens in the movie. um But I do feel like this movie is very...
Pacing and Costume Design
00:02:52
Speaker
imagery focused and so that's kind of it makes sense to me that that's what kind of stuck with me was like a collection of images of things that happen as opposed to like sequences or dialogue or whatever because there's not a lot yeah or plot just like there's not a lot of plot imagery um but yeah uh How about you, Ariel? I believe this was your first time. This was my first time. So when the trailer first dropped in 2021, like my husband was like, this is a you movie. And I was like, it really is. And I was like, too bad. We're not to go see it in theaters. And I was like, it's always been in the back the back pocket.
00:03:28
Speaker
And um I knew that I just needed to watch it when I felt like it and not just put it on to put it on Because so many people, like, the negative feedback about it was that, oh, it's so slow. Like, even you go on to IMDb and, like, you see comments and it's like, yawn is the title of one. And I'm like, okay, calm down. Like, this is not a boring movie.
00:03:51
Speaker
It's just a movie that has a different pacing than you want. Yes. Because you want...
Vegan Costume Design Insights
00:03:57
Speaker
like kill bill yeah but yeah like that's not what this is and that's not what everything has to be i think that this is one of the more beautiful movies i've ever seen the design of it is so so charts off the charts so together so confident confident and heavy and like broad strokes too because like Production wise and costume wise, the design is very kind of like bold color, bold shapes, right? Like it's not a bunch of like intricate Game of Thrones, Michelle Carragher, like embroidery. It's not, you know, that kind of in depth.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah. It's very um simplistic. It's your very pared down. Yes. It's very pared down. And it's very, very built off of like historical impressions. Yeah.
00:04:57
Speaker
And I think that all of that is incredible because the things that do have all of these specific details stand out further because they don't have to compete with other things.
00:05:08
Speaker
Yeah. And like I actually found like – a bunch of articles with a bunch of interviews by the designer. And so there's a lot, like not only the costume designer, but the makeup designer, the production designer, like everybody was asking questions about this movie. And that's awesome because like, we actually can have some questions answered and we can, you know, talk about specific things. Did you read anything about this?
00:05:31
Speaker
Like not one thing. didn't read one thing about it. i was like, you know what? I'm going to do my homework today. And I'm glad that I did because then I get to share some things with you. Yay. So the director who was also wrote it and edited this movie. Yeah. Which like the thing that appreciate so much with the movies is just clarity of vision. Yes.
00:05:54
Speaker
And – I feel like it's not present as often as I would like these days. yeah And i also don't ascribe to the sort of auteur theory of filmmaking.
00:06:05
Speaker
But it is really nice to see someone come in and be like, this is my movie and I'm going to make what I want to make. And then I just do. But then also strike the balance that is not auteur, which is to say, and I need your skills to
Symbolism in Costumes
00:06:19
Speaker
make it happen. Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:20
Speaker
And like I need your opinions and I need your voice to make what's in my head happen. Like that recognition seems like a very small thing. But when it's actually there, it is the collaboration that you and I talk about where it's like that's what makes it kick off. is the Here's the thing that's in my head. You have the skills that I want and need to like make it real.
00:06:39
Speaker
yeah So David Lowery this – dreamer who made this movie. um Our costume designer is, me scroll, source source so scroll, scroll, Malgoza Trzanska. And my apologies for pronunciation if that is incorrect, but she also designed Pearl and X. And like right now what's out is Hamnet and Train Dreams. Have you seen Pearl?
00:07:07
Speaker
I know what happens in Pearl, ah but I am not a person who loves to watch like horror movies. Oh, it's such a good movie. i believe it. If anyone listening does like to watch horror movies and hasn't seen Pearl, please take a moment, take a couple hours and go watch Pearl. Get into it. It's another movie that i I feel like falls into this category of clarity of vision.
00:07:31
Speaker
um So that makes sense. Yeah. ah So apparently Lowry is a vegan and he's very committed to his veganism. So Trzanska, the um costume designer, had to explore different fabrics. And so I actually have a bunch of links if you want to include it in the episode information. But there are a couple Vogue articles. One is based on the costume design. One is based on um more makeup design focus, I think.
00:07:57
Speaker
But um she had to find like in the D&D movie that we just talked about where they had like bark fabric. She found fabric made out of tree bark. And then she had to find leathers made out of mushroom, coconut, pineapple, like all these different things. And they really tried not to use polyester or plastic as a replacement. And you can tell.
00:08:21
Speaker
Yes. And so it's like what was really important to them was they did not look at like the finishing the way that we usually look at fantasy movies is that there's a bunch of embellishments. They wanted to look at the actual structure of the costumes and the fabrics use the materials used absolutely to speak a lot and you can really really feel that where everything just feels stunning yeah it feels really stunning there's so much um going on with like draping and just like fitting and shape and yeah it's not about the
00:09:00
Speaker
tons of extraneous things then put on top to be like, ooh, sparkly, shiny. well right The pieces are them are on their own like so strong. and like That is my favorite kind of design. and yeah It's something that I gravitate towards as well. like I would much rather have one garment that is...
00:09:28
Speaker
strong and fitted and has the right line and the right shape and the right construction than like three things that don't fit super great but are like have all the little bits and bobs going on like I prefer that method um but I feel like as an audience member, people maybe tend to prefer the three things with all the bits and bobs. Yeah, I think that people, especially when they're encountering fantasy, yeah they think that everything has to be big, big, big, big. big yeah And then there's there's a certain visual language that a lot of people are very used to They're not used to a grounded fantasy that feels almost organic. And so that is why i I'm like you, where I really love the
00:10:18
Speaker
simpler designs or or just tailored even tailored with like beautiful fabrics um but i do love the embellishment parts like embroidery is my soul i love i love that finishing um and so i love where they meet in the middle yeah um and like the dyeing and all those things like yeah we're one very closely aligned i think I think where both of us, correct me if I'm wrong, I think where both of us fall on the spectrum is that we we want those embellishments to be there for a reason.
00:10:50
Speaker
Yes. Not just to be there. We want them to be there because they're part of the storytelling and they're important and they're done well so that you can really see them and appreciate what's going on. We want things to feel real.
00:11:04
Speaker
Yeah. We want them to have intention. That's exactly it. So like, okay, I'm going to tell you more stuff from these articles now. I'm so excited. So one of the first things that I clocked into, because we see it early, is the yellow cloak.
00:11:18
Speaker
ah Yep. So the color of that, stunning. Beautiful. Because this a very moody cinematography palette. Like it's very moody. All of this was filmed in Ireland. So there's a lot of green. There's a lot of darkness being played with. There's a lot of smoky.
00:11:33
Speaker
We're outside the majority of the film. So in nature. so this cloak stands out yeah like very, very bright. And the reason that they chose the color is because it's very similar to gorse, which is an invasive plant. Right.
00:11:48
Speaker
And so it tied him into the nature while also making him stand out. yeah And um did you notice, especially towards the end of the movie, when the cape is like thrown over his shoulders, did you notice the the stitching on it?
00:12:02
Speaker
Yes. So quilting. The quilting is very intentional because it's blueprint it's meant to look like a magnified thumbprint. That's what it looked like to me. Yay, I got it. I understood. So they talk about how it's supposed to go to this idea, which is very part of the film, of the idea of the individual and free will and where that leads you. So like the fact that you took just like a thumbprint and blew it out and then quilted it onto the part of the cape that is closest to his face.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah. ah That's the kind of, oh, I love it. I really, really like, i' I'm not a quilter, um maybe but I like quilting. Yes. I like how it looks. I like quilting on garments. Yes. I mean, quilts are beautiful, but I've been really wanting to make...
00:12:51
Speaker
a jacket with that type of quilting. Let's do it. i
Collaboration in Film Production
00:12:56
Speaker
I'll be a buddy in crime. i know. Like I remember many years ago um in like crunch time at the end of a semester, like helping a friend stitch like something that she was making that involved that kind of quilting.
00:13:12
Speaker
And I was just like, what a visionary. Like yeah it was beautiful. And I was like, I've been chasing that high for like 15 years. And I just, it's it's one of those things that just adds so much texture and so much story to a garment that is one color and then like alters throughout the movie because it's being distressed.
00:13:32
Speaker
But like, when you first look at it, you're like, oh it's just a yellow cloak. but like I mean, and which I'm like, you couldn't be more wrong. You couldn't be more incorrect. And then it just like it adds so much dimension. And like, again, it's me. so I'm going to talk about texture, texture, texture. There's texture in this mofo.
00:13:50
Speaker
And I love it. And it's like this beautiful asymmetrical kind of drape going on. It's like it it looks like it's just sort of tossed over the shoulder, but it's not. It's constructed yeah with all of those folds and draping. And it's...
00:14:06
Speaker
It's just beautiful. Like, it's such a beautiful piece. And to have it be so front and center for so much of the movie was just like, I don't get sick of looking at that. No, it's so and it also is like, so handsome against our actor's face and his skin tone.
00:14:23
Speaker
Like, It compliments the cinematography around him. It compliments him. And it like grounds. It's so beautiful and so intentional and so striking. And so the thought that went into that.
00:14:35
Speaker
Chef kiss. yeah Love. Just even this like first indication of how this this person works within a production design. Love it. yeah So there are two other cloaks that I really want to talk about.
00:14:46
Speaker
Okay. And then I need to circle back to something else that Garwin is wearing.
Historical Details in Costume Design
00:14:50
Speaker
Okay. So let's put a cloak pin in that. So these two cloaks. King Arthur. And Queen Guinevere. So did you what did you notice about their – Let's talk about it for a second. Okay. All right. Okay.
00:15:03
Speaker
Okay. they – So I've never done a Byzantine show. Oh, neither have I. hi And I want to. I'm dying. Someone hire me But – In school, we had to study... um we i had this dual class that was like the entire like year. it wasn't once It was two semesters where we studied architecture, decor, and clothing from each historical period like together as one thing.
00:15:34
Speaker
Because you have to You have to And so there's not a lot of stuff from the Byzantine era that is left. So when it came to looking at clothing... Mostly what we had to look at were paintings and mosaic tile work that survive.
00:15:49
Speaker
And so that those cloaks were just like people like stepped out of like mosaic tile work of Kings in the most delicious way. So incredible. And so part of this language of like bold shapes and not a bunch of like necessarily intricate shapes. Like it's very, very, is geometric, right?
00:16:11
Speaker
Yeah. Because like the crowns to me yeah feel that way. Yeah. Which, by the way, we do have to talk about for a second because when um when the design, when Trzenska came up with the design, she was like, oh, shit.
00:16:26
Speaker
How are we going to make this? yeah And so she and with the assistance, quoting from this article, with the assistance of colleague David Samuel Houghton, they were able to pull it off by Houghton making cardboard mock-ups. And so I was like, first of all, thank you whoever wrote this interview for talking about the technique and the the experimentation that had to happen to make this happen. Using the word mock-up. Thank you. Mock-up and also talking about cardboard because first of all, let me just say making stuff out of cardboard, that is a material that a lot of people sleep on because it is so incredible.
00:17:00
Speaker
But anyways, these crowns um are – oh my god. They elevate Arthur and Guinevere the way that their cloaks are about to when I talk about them more because they really do. Like you said, they look like they stepped out of a mosaic.
00:17:15
Speaker
They look like they are a part – from everyone yeah because they recognize their own iconic selves. And when I say iconic, I'm not talking about how we casually use the word now.
00:17:27
Speaker
i am talking about because like when we talk about Byzantines, we use the word icon a lot, which is like, you know, the it is the shape of a person and you worship this person. And they recognize that that is their status amongst their people now because they've been reigning over them for a long enough time to know where they are.
00:17:45
Speaker
yeah And so these crowns... Queen
Themes of Christianity and Paganism
00:17:47
Speaker
Elizabeth, dearly departed, ah or not so dearly departed, whatever. um But I feel like she had that same yeah dynastic view of herself as not really even being a person and being a symbol of something...
00:18:04
Speaker
that was larger than one human life. And that is what these characters yeah look like. They understand. It's what you see when you look at Pharaoh's busts or any of these things where it's, it is that communication of to be Royal means that you are,
00:18:20
Speaker
chosen by a god. yeah And so like you are now no longer human like everyone else. It's kind of communicating that thing. And so these crowns are just such a beautiful design because it is a normal crown that goes around the temple.
00:18:34
Speaker
But then there are the halos that you get from these mosaics, these Byzantine artworks. And they are these flat metallic halos that are attached at the back of these crowns. So it's two circular shapes. Yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yeah. And and like, oh they're so... Chunky is the word that I came up with. They look like they were made by a Smith. Yeah, they they look industrial in a way that is surprising. Like you can see the joins of like where pieces are like attached to each other in a way that you don't really see with like now like the idea of like fine important jewelry is that it looks like
00:19:20
Speaker
impossible. like it doesn't You can't tell how it was me Yeah, you don't see hammer marks. No, it's hidden from you. But these were like crafted.
00:19:32
Speaker
Yeah. And they don't let you forget it. Yeah. And the word I'm looking for is graphic. They're very graphic. There's like a flatness to them that does not remove from anything. The flatness actually makes them stand out against the darkness because like the cinematography and a lot of scenes, there's a lot of darkness around things.
00:19:49
Speaker
Yeah. And like part of the story that's being told is like, Christianity versus like the pagan world, the natural world. And like Arthur and Guinevere are very sick. And I was reading in um one of these articles that like that was very intentional, right? Because it's they're they're forcing Christianity and forcing this thing into the natural world is like the world is reacting back by making them sick.
00:20:13
Speaker
And so it's like- And you can like they don't even have to say, but like, you know, when Garwin's like riding his horse- past like what used to be a forest and it's just like decimated on the ground and you see like the subjugation of nature or the attempt and it's like they don't have to say it they just show it to you and you understand it's It's a very – and it helps with the striking shapes and
Symbolism in Arthur’s Costumes
00:20:43
Speaker
everything. yeah It is just where beautiful. and so
00:20:47
Speaker
Okay, yeah the cloaks. The cloaks. So King Arthur's cloak has all of these squares over it. Each one, we don't get to see them up close. But I would love to Each square is a picture of a story of King Arthur.
00:21:05
Speaker
So that is where we get teeny, teeny, tiny detail, right? It's like yeah he is dressing himself in his own legend yeah so that when people come to see him, he is what they expect him to be.
00:21:16
Speaker
Right. He's not a man. Yeah. He's not a man anymore. Queen Guinevere, she has hers in turn is a little bit shiny because there Milagros all over, which are these little metal um like offerings yeah and they glitter in the lighting.
00:21:34
Speaker
And so they're the idea, the imagined idea from the designer is that these were given to them by people they'd saved or whose enemies were defeated. And so they're, and to, to end the quote, they're barely able to move under all of this gratitude.
00:21:51
Speaker
And so it's just like, these are ceremonial pieces. So it's like, because we don't have all of this, like we were just talking about Bridgerton, right? And Bridgerton, everything is kind of loud.
00:22:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And so like you're kind of competing, not in a negative way. It's intended to be loud. yeah But like you're kind of competing with overwhelm and you're communicating something different in this. Everything is so subtle that when you do have this kind of intentional layering of meaning, it really, really hits. You're what's that? Yeah. makes It makes you look harder. Because you're like, what's going on here? Yeah.
00:22:27
Speaker
um And there was something like also kind of like Klimt. about those cloaks. I think it was the sort collage-y, mosaic-y quality that made me think of like his paintings and yeah sort of like way that he would use like the graphic symbols.
Craftsmanship of Green Knight Prosthetics
00:22:47
Speaker
But The whole movie, you can, i mean, it's it's very much intentional. Like you can see that they're using like illuminated manuscripts as a visual like jumping off point in the design.
00:23:03
Speaker
And that sort of graphic way of drawing those sort of turns into, because it's like you're filling in blocks of color on those manuscripts, even though they're like beautiful, there's a very particular style to that art that they're like, and it also kind of gives you this like storybook, like a children's storybook where you'd like open and have like a two page spread where it's like the entire forest is up here. And there's like the tiny man on the horse at the very Yeah, it all feels very much mythical.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah. ah Oh, so good. So the pin that we put into something that you want to talk about about our night, what was that thing? really need i really need to make anyone aware that wasn't aware what his shoe situation was in the movie because you don't see it really clearly until he's tied up in the forest on the ground yeah that his were shoes turn in they're like they're like shoe becomes boot becomes chaps and he's got them they go all the way up to his waist and they're like tied on the way like a cowboy chap would be but they are his shoes and
00:24:24
Speaker
And they're laced all the way. They're like this beautiful ah sort of off-white or maybe even a really pale gray. I'm not sure because they get messed up pretty quickly.
00:24:35
Speaker
They get muddy and stay muddy. And this beautiful dark lacing. All the way up. So I assumed watching it that they were made of suede. But now I know that they couldn't have been because yeah they didn't use that material in the movie. So now i need to know what those were made of. Because they were insanely cool. yeah And I need a pair.
00:25:00
Speaker
It's like part of me kind of wonders if those are the mushroom leather. i wonder... Because they they very much have – haven't seen mushroom leather in person. I've only seen photos. Yeah.
00:25:12
Speaker
But I wonder. I wonder window where that is. What is it?
Cultural Research in Costume Design
00:25:17
Speaker
But like, oh, it's they're so great. And like there are all these little details that are historical details of garments that sometimes we don't see in movies because we're using shorthand garments.
00:25:29
Speaker
For like, well, you get it, boots, you know, like, right not these like intricate pieces. But like, I do remember in school learning about the different layers of clothing that you'd put on, like, because this is supposed to be century.
00:25:44
Speaker
century Oh, I have no idea. don't remember. it yeah but i have no i't think I think it is supposed to be earlier because I think the poem was from the 14th century. it says in one of the in one of the articles, but I did not retain that information. I didn't copy paste it into my notes.
00:26:01
Speaker
All can tell you is that King Constantine made everyone be Christian yeah in uh turkey in 400 something so yeah so i think that this is much later than that time later than that and thousand year period we're working with and so there's there's just all these little items and all these little bits and some of them are definitely from historical research like to show you the minutiae of this um what is her name essel alicia vikander's first character that we see who is um
00:26:34
Speaker
Yeah. ah A sex worker, essentially. um In history, Trzanska, our costume designer, found that that people who were sex workers or considered unclean, cool, were forced to wear bells to alert citizens that they were coming, kind of like a scarlet letter. Oh, I feel like I have heard that and I didn't connect those dots. So Essel wears bells.
00:27:01
Speaker
yeah And every time she moves, you hear them. And at one point she rips off a bell to give to him. And that's the token that Gohan takes with him through his journey and um loses ultimately.
00:27:13
Speaker
And i was like, what? And this is a moment that I really like because in this in this article, it says that she researched this and then she communicated it to the director.
00:27:25
Speaker
and he liked that detail so much he added it to the script to make it a part of the story. I love that. Oh, what? It's like we can work together? Crazy.
00:27:36
Speaker
Oh, my God. What? How about the scene where – oh, God. Is it – Is it Morgana where they're making the belt that they give to Garwin before he leaves that scene of like the hands reaching into the pot of dye and like bringing it out and like the spinning and the sewing and just like that scene of seeing the construction of something was just really amazing because
00:28:15
Speaker
like ah We are, spoiler alert, we're very removed from the process of making clothes in so this country unless you choose to engage with
Realism in Costume Portrayal
00:28:27
Speaker
that process. You don't know anything about it unless you make a conscious decision to engage with learning about it.
00:28:34
Speaker
So to have the the preciousness of an item like that be front and center was just a little gift to all of us. Yeah, it made me think of, to call it a different project, but like in Outlander, there's a scene where the main character comes across these Scottish women walking wool.
00:28:56
Speaker
and using urine to set the die and they like explain that through dialogue but it's like to show the work that goes into it and like that music came from it because you're doing it for hours and hours and hours and you're bored as hell like it's anytime I see anything where you are including people's hands making something and showing just like you said the time the effort the resources that go into it i love it Because it's just like, yes, this is, it's not an impossible act, but it is an act that goes into every single item that we wear. And people, sorry, it's me, so i'm going to go off on a little tangent.
00:29:36
Speaker
But like, people use the the phrase handmade incorrectly every single day. everything is handmade all clothing is handmade yeah because there are people who are making it yeah we just don't watch them do it they do it yes and so you only think of handmade things is when you get to see the aesthetic videos of people knitting or crocheting or sewing something as it being handmade yeah but that is not the case and so like someone is always operating the machine that is making the fast fashion that a lot of people are buying and so yes i was like hey call out to makers like We're in this film. um um and and another like ah there's not a lot of clothing relative to people in this movie. Like people are wearing the same clothes for days because that's what people did.
00:30:35
Speaker
And ah so I feel like it it all kind of supports this thing that like these things were valuable and precious. And if someone took all that effort to like make that thing for you, like it was important and you kept it forever. Like, and these things get passed down. It's like,
00:30:56
Speaker
you know, when like when Arthur dies and the next person is going to become the king, they're wearing his crown. They don't get a new one. That's not how things work. Yeah. You have a crown, you wear the crown. Like, and obviously that's kind of like a symbolic like item, whatever. But like, it's just nice to not have a movie where they felt like, oh, well, now we need these characters to change clothes. And it's like, well, why? Yeah. Like that wasn't part of it. Because like everywhere that people are walking, even inside of their homes, there's dirt floors, there's mud, it's wet, it's damp. So it's like people wouldn't have all of these things.
Character Symbolism and Choices
00:31:37
Speaker
And we see those those conditions take effect on people's clothing. Like this is not a kingdom that is like when you think of –
00:31:46
Speaker
Britain much later and like having colonized and violated a bunch of countries and stolen their wealth. And then those royals do have different crowns and like they're constantly making crowns because they've stolen so much shit that they have all of this excess precious metal, et cetera, to do that. So it's kind of this...
00:32:08
Speaker
disgusting display of wealth. In this case, the display of wealth is very intentional and very specific to certain people. yeah And so it's like, like Gowan, our green knight, our titular green knight, he, like you said, is not wearing a bunch of things. And like, even what he is wearing, while each thing, when you look at it closely, is actually pretty interesting.
00:32:30
Speaker
They're very subtle colors. So it's like, you're not meant, your eyes are not really meant to be drawn to them. a ton yeah except for that cloak like that is obviously a prized piece and it's like very bright which means that those dyes could have cost you know a little bit more than something else because he's the only person also wearing that yeah so it's like the language of what is worth what is very specific in this in a way that's just a part of all of the overall intention it's really nice
00:33:01
Speaker
yeah It's just beautiful. It's just great. um the ah how did the ah so we we meet some giants Oh, my God.
00:33:16
Speaker
yeah And they don't necessarily have costumes per se because they're not really depicted as wearing clothes. But yeah how did they stack up for you to the giants from the silver chair that we saw last week? You know, I feel like...
00:33:30
Speaker
I feel like the the giants from the BBC TV movie, Silver Chair, of great renown, was very...
Symbolism of Giants
00:33:44
Speaker
Yeah. A little bit heavy-handed. And then, you know, prosthetics that were very stiff. And in this case, these were very... I loved these giants. Yeah.
00:33:56
Speaker
Because they really, this is like part of that surrealism that was happening throughout the whole movie where it's like, we are no longer in Kansas or for Camelot, ah Kansas a lot.
00:34:08
Speaker
um Because they are so, they're not even really like, okay. Okay.
00:34:15
Speaker
Gohan tries to speak to one and he says, can I ride on your shoulder? and he's like reaching out and the giant reaches back and he cowers in fear. And she's like, Oh, and um yikes. The, the Fox, because there's a little Fox that travels with him for a while. where i lived um you is so cute.
00:34:35
Speaker
ah He then like howls, like sings to her and she sings back. And then they all sing back in the same kind of language. So it's like he can't even really connect to this this creature that is from a set of creatures that are part of the world the same way that the fox can because yeah they're closer together than he is. And I was just like, this is so beautiful.
00:35:01
Speaker
yeah Also, our our night friend – is such a dumbass. Oh my god, we haven't even talked about the knight. We'll talk about, we're gonna get, so Gawain, that knight was different. That knight, okay, okay, not the green knight. The green knight, just in case anyone isn't sure, is not Gawain. That is a different guy. So we'll talk about the different guy a second.
00:35:23
Speaker
Our main character is such a dumbass, but it's like, he's meant to be because he's meant to be a young man who's being pushed into manhood or adulthood rather. And so, but he just keeps making the wrong choices. Like yeah every time a choice is presented, he chooses the worst one.
00:35:42
Speaker
And so it's like kind of frustrating because like you're, it's, it's a philosophical movie. Like it's, it's yeah all representational and, And that's why people were like, boo, hiss, because it wasn't solely an action movie, which is totally fine. Yeah. I'm like, there are so many action movies out there. yeah your pick. Let us have this one. yeah let us have this. It's like the Wells for Boys. Yeah.
00:36:07
Speaker
Like, everything's for you. This is for him. And so it's like it's frustrating to watch this character move through the world because he's just doing his thing, which is the wrong one at every turn. And he starts at the very beginning of the movie with making the wrong choice. The wrong choice.
00:36:29
Speaker
Okay, a question for you. so now we're going to move on to the subject of the Green Knight himself. Yes. you know If a green knight, you know, busted in on a dinner that you were attending and was like, hey, ah have a big axe.
00:36:42
Speaker
Somebody jump into the circle and do something to me. And then in a year, i will return the favor of whatever you've done to me. What would you do? Okay, first of all, i just, before I even answer that question, I have to say, this is not, they refer to this as a game. This is not a game.
00:36:58
Speaker
It does not have any of the hallmarks of a game. don't know if that word has changed meaning over the centuries. I feel like maybe this is like the game of the gods. You know what I mean? Like people who are living in a world where magical things like this exist and they're like,
00:37:11
Speaker
Because whenever we hear about, like, the fae, like, in myth ah mythology, like, Celtic mythology, there's always a bittersweetness or a very dark
Gawain’s Challenge and Choices
00:37:20
Speaker
side. And so that's what it feels like, is that this is a cruel game.
00:37:24
Speaker
yeah And so it's like, in that sense, I get it. But it's like when King Arthur just whispers into Coen's ear, remember, it's just a game. I'm like, this isn't chess. Yeah. This isn't go fish.
00:37:36
Speaker
I sympathize with someone not knowing what to do. i deeply, deeply sympathize with being confused and being worried that you're going to make the wrong choice and therefore making the wrong choice.
00:37:49
Speaker
yeah Very relatable position. um Knowing before the game starts that whatever is that whatever you do, the person is going to do it to you. Uh-huh.
00:38:02
Speaker
hu Tells you a lot. It's one thing if someone is like, jump into this ring and fight me and then you fight them and you kill them and they're like, ha ha ha, now I'm going to do it to you. You just got tricked.
00:38:14
Speaker
That is not what happens. He knows. So I don't know. What I would do umm I'm not a fighter. um You're lover, not a fighter. I'm a lover, not a fighter. But even if I had the king's sword in my hand, I feel like you have to do if you want to be like, I'm going to act tough and brave, you got to do something symbolically tough and brave.
00:38:38
Speaker
yeah You don't decapitate the man. You like make some big gesture and then like tap him or something. If you want to be like, I'm going to be the tough fighter, brave guy, ah you could do something nice, like yeah embrace him.
00:38:56
Speaker
Even though he's a little freaky because he is kind of a tree. but Can't wait to talk about his treedness. His treedness was front and center. yeah But yeah, you could you could do something in the spirit of togetherness and and brotherly love as it is Christmas Day. What?
00:39:13
Speaker
ah which they say in a Dickensian way. i know. It's Christmas. You could present him with the fattest goose at the market. I mean, there's so many things. And I feel like what would this story be if these were...
00:39:31
Speaker
Fem knights or like, you know, not men that are cisgendered male knights, like anybody else with any other experience.
00:39:42
Speaker
I feel like any other option would have been pursued because yeah, like you said, embrace him. Do something symbolic. Pull up a chair and say, please join us at our meal. Right.
00:39:54
Speaker
Whatever. Welcome, stranger. like Anything that you could do here, you could do and not cut off his fucking head. Which immediately, by the way, laughs and goes, well, see you a year, basically. He picks up his own head, which is like, I mean, that's a fucking baller move.
00:40:11
Speaker
If you ever get decapitated, you better pick your own head up off the floor. i mean... ah Amazing. The fact that he bled red blood was really disturbing. Oh, and that like he leaves and he's, he's like hollering, like laughing as he's riding away. ah And he leaves behind this pool of red blood at the night, at the night to be his feet in the center of this round table. And like, Ooh, what a visual. Like all of these moments are such strong visuals. Okay. Okay.
00:40:43
Speaker
What do you know or assume about the Green Knight and the the the design of the Green Knight and the makeup of the Green Knight?
Practical Effects and Realism
00:40:55
Speaker
Okay. So looking at the movie... It looked like there was definitely to me and I'm like, maybe you're going to tell me that I'm so wrong and stupid. because i know That's definitely how I talk to you. That is how you dummy, dumb, dumb. People, when the mic is off, I just.
00:41:15
Speaker
ah How dare you?
00:41:19
Speaker
How dare you reveal our secrets?
00:41:24
Speaker
um It looked like there was at the very least enhancement of computer graphics happening here. i am so delighted to tell you that that is not true. That's awesome. Tell me more. So immediately after the movie came out, um so Ralph in Innocent um of recent Galactus fame from um the Fantastic Four, he has been in a lot of things. He has a very, very deep voice. He's very always perfectly cast to be something big.
00:41:56
Speaker
um He had to sit for three and a half hours each shooting day um to have very complex um prosthetics put on him that were very, very, very, very beautifully crafted.
00:42:14
Speaker
And they're they would be destroyed at the end of shooting because of the mineral oil that would be needed to remove from his face. yeah And so there was someone in the the makeup company's workshop that was in there all the time.
00:42:31
Speaker
Just working on a production line of all the face parts, the chins, and the balaclavas. Because that was the base. Was this giant balaclava that went over the head with the face exposed.
00:42:42
Speaker
The balaclava encased the hairline and like in front of the ears. Then there was like a forehead, face parts, chin. And the prosthetic was ah asymmetrical.
00:42:55
Speaker
So the actor had to really... purposefully stand and move because it was heavy. wow and like, yeah, three and a half hours to put this thing on. i love that. And it was like tucked into the costume. And then he had gloves that were skin tight that had the same textures.
00:43:14
Speaker
And apparently the actor had broken his arm. Yeah. A couple weeks before. um So there's like part of the filming where they had to split the glove to fit the cast. But then they they were able to like move past that at some point because he was that far in his healing.
00:43:28
Speaker
But this was not CG. And so when the movie came out, people were like, oh my God, the CG on The Green Knight, blah, blah, blah. And the actor was bummed to hear that because he's like, I did so much work for this.
00:43:41
Speaker
But the makeup artist was actually like, oh. I mean, can you imagine being so good at your job that, yeah like, I thought, I did think, like, I figured that there was a person there and the extent at which they looked like that, I wasn't sure. Yeah. So, so wow.
00:44:02
Speaker
Entire. and like, the the makeup artist, when the articles were like, yeah, it's CG, was like, well, this proves that there's still a place for traditional special effects makeup because...
00:44:13
Speaker
We are still really fucking good at this. so It's so fascinating because I feel like the sort of movie making journey that we've gone on with CG was like first iteration of like a fully CG character is like there's nobody on set with you and you're just talking into the air.
00:44:33
Speaker
Now we're in the era where someone's in a motion capture suit with a bunch of ping pong balls all over it. And you're talking to a ping pong ball and not to the person's face because their face isn't where a face would be.
00:44:47
Speaker
and it gives a little bit more, I would think, for the actor to work with to at least have a person on the set. But can you imagine doing that scene with that actor in that full
Practical Effects vs. CGI
00:45:05
Speaker
look? Like, I'm just like, let us give actors everything that we can so they can do their job.
00:45:12
Speaker
All the tools. And so apparently most of the other actors hadn't seen his makeup until he rode in. oh no into that scene. And like they were so intentional about making the world feel real that they set dressed 360.
00:45:30
Speaker
three sixty So there was no like hard cut. Here's yeah where the crew is. It was 360. This is the world that you are standing in. mean, it is the round table. I mean, yeah.
00:45:42
Speaker
And so, like, all of that intentionality and, like, dedication to this for what was, I don't have a number, but supposedly a modest budget for the film. Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:54
Speaker
every decision was very, very intentional and very well executed. Yeah. And like this um and article And I don't believe that... Someone send me a spreadsheet.
00:46:08
Speaker
I don't believe that using costume, makeup, prosthetics with a real person is more expensive than computer animated design. I don't believe because you need...
00:46:24
Speaker
Like you need an entire team of people to make that computer generated image. Yeah. All of these things are with specialized artists.
00:46:35
Speaker
Yeah. All of them. And all of those artists need time and resources. And like, there are some people who wouldn't know who would say, well, you can just like cut and edit, you know, if you're doing something on a computer, which is like true, but you can also cut and edit.
00:46:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. it's just ah different workaround then pressing buttons and i think some people who don't no how to do things think that one is easier than the other Well, I mean, look, this is a completely like a aside, but like the number of people that I have seen recently on social media that are like, I'm so tired of not liking the clothing that I see at the mall. So I bought a sewing machine and I'm going to make all of my clothes. And I'm like, first of all, girl, go off, go do it, please, because you will see that owning a sewing machine and understanding how to make clothes are not the same.
00:47:34
Speaker
And it's the same thing like I own a computer. i do not know how to make a computer rendered character. yeah These are not the same things. They're not the same things. And like all of them, once you are in them and you're learning about them and you're getting better and better at it, will teach you how time operates differently than you think it does. Like there's a reason why people go to school and specialize for all of these different art forms.
00:48:01
Speaker
If you could just... pick up a thing and do the thing without any training, like you're a one in a million savant, good for you. the rest of us are not so lucky. it takes many, many years and a lot of failing over and over again to get the skills to do these things and to do them on a professional level. And it's like...
00:48:25
Speaker
It all takes time, money, and humans to make it happen. So I just, I have a really hard time believing that using computer designed graphics would save you money and time. It's just a different allocation. It's just a different application and one that often will create a little bit of an uncanny valley.
Artistry in Costume and Makeup
00:48:46
Speaker
Yeah. And like, that's why making them work together this kind of like the optimal thing in my opinion yeah um but the makeup effects artist is barry gower who also worked on game of thrones and his team at bgfx which is a london-based company that he co-founded with his wife sarah gower which also that speaks to like how amazing you are that you're like yeah i'm gonna make my own studio like you know okay this is a thing we're gonna do it better than anybody that's what
00:49:17
Speaker
And so like absolutely stunning. And there's a whole article about just the makeup on Variety. And so you can you can look that up. And it's by Carlos Aguilar. And it's just like, it tells you all the things that you want to know. Like I'm so excited that this movie had coverage to talk about the process of the making and not just like I had a had a dream that I needed to do this poem and like I wanted it my way. It's like, no, no, no.
00:49:45
Speaker
recognition...
00:49:48
Speaker
talk recognition of all the art that goes behind it. yeah And um our costume designer, Malgoza Trzanska has a website, trzanska.com. And she has a whole section just about this movie where she shows her costume designs and some stills from the movie to like balance out, you know, her designs.
00:50:08
Speaker
And so it's like also having access to that too is always so exciting when that happens, when somebody shares their process with, Yes. With you. really love it when designers are like, no, here, let me open the door and show you what it is. Because like, i I mean, I feel like, you know, that's kind of what we're doing here. Obviously, we're not film designers, but like pulling back the curtain a little bit and being like, this is what it takes.
00:50:37
Speaker
And this is how you can do it is great because i think it, it, deepens people's appreciation for what they see if they understand that it's not easy. Yeah. And that there's just so much that goes into it. And like when it works together like this and creates this like beautifully crafted dream, like it's beautiful.
00:51:02
Speaker
And so I, this is another one where I want an exhibition. Absolutely. all of the costumes up close because like for all that we're
Alternate Costume Design Approaches
00:51:12
Speaker
saying that these are like you know not super overdone there's subtle stuff happening with all of these costumes that it would be very very cool to see with your naked eyeballs the The costume that Dev Patel wears near the end of the movie in the sort of of like what if future where he becomes the king after running out on
00:51:38
Speaker
completing the game that like tunic and like i don't know ah god the word is escaping me but like the it's not a shirt because it's like a tunic underneath but then like the tunic on top like the the like like a tabard ah no no it's like the shirt layer what is that called god brain not working shirt whatever but it's this beautiful delicate gray blue that's like primitive pleated then the tunic on top is this like insane like moray i mean it was just like it's so good it was so stunning and i was just like
00:52:28
Speaker
breathless when i saw that look it looks amazing on him he looks like a king and then to have it kind of all be like snatched away and be like jk was just like that look was so good and we see it for like don't know three minutes Yeah.
00:52:46
Speaker
It's just like absolutely stunning. And there's like a bunch of different things that he's wearing. and a bunch is very strong, but there are a couple costume changes that he does have. um And they all are these like in that same world as that dream because it's when he gets to that castle with Joel Edgerton and Alicia. Oh my God.
00:53:07
Speaker
And um there's just pleats and textures and that blue with like the raglan sleeve kind of thing going on. What were those? It's just like these choices. The woman in the blindfold?
00:53:22
Speaker
What in the Midsommar was going on? I that. Terror. Oh, no.
00:53:31
Speaker
i everything about that. Yikes. but There was so much that was like just atmospherically unsettling and unexplained in this movie that I just I'm like, this is absolutely up my alley. Like, yeah, I don't need to know.
00:53:48
Speaker
I'm happy to be here. Yeah. Like the the audacity of me to to know who am I? And there's just, like, there's really beautiful details. There are things that we haven't touched on, like a bunch of Alicia Vikander's things that she's wearing um have different details that are really beautiful and so beautifully constructed. I want why they why she played two different characters. Like, I have my own idea, but um i want to know, like... yeah
00:54:20
Speaker
what what mr lowry was thinking when he made that choice because it's really specific strong choice to have her play the sex worker at the beginning and this like lady temptress partway through the movie and i was like what's going on what are we talking about what's happening here yeah Yeah, it it just... I feel I could talk about that for a while, so I won't because it's not pertaining to this specific. but like But this is a visual
Appreciation for Practical Design
00:54:54
Speaker
stunner.
00:54:54
Speaker
Everything about this is lovely. And like the work that is on display, it is always exciting when you're seeing a movie that is... or Or a TV, whatever. When you're seeing costumes that are over the top,
00:55:08
Speaker
and are loud and have a lot going on. That is its own language. That is its own world. And there's so much fun to be had there and beautiful skill on display.
00:55:20
Speaker
There's also something very strong to be said when you pull back. yeah And every single thing ah every single thing that is intentional is it' like kind of visible that this was intentional because you have stripped back so far.
00:55:34
Speaker
And like it just there is another world in which this movie was made and has you know very, very crazy Excalibur style, silver, chrome.
00:55:45
Speaker
Disco, halter tops. Yeah. chr like disco winter talk Massively textured and like um like the green lady in the silver chair with her like layers on layers on layers of like, you know, polyester fabric, medieval dream Ren Faire costumes. Absolutely. Like acid dye. Yeah. Like there's a world where that that is this.
00:56:12
Speaker
But this is, it's nice that this exists, that this like carved out of space to tell this fantasy differently. And like give it a different kind of weight and gravity.
00:56:23
Speaker
And like it just – the costumes feed into the whole mood of this movie so beautifully. Like it is all just – I just want to touch all the fabrics real bad. I know.
00:56:36
Speaker
And yet like have – i have Like, I think something that really worked for me with the sort of atmosphere of the film is this idea of, like, it's me and my horse against, like, nature itself. I'm like, oh, no, thank you.
00:56:57
Speaker
I don't want to do that. um That is scary. And so, like, that setup alone, like drew me into having um an understanding of this character and the sort of like journey that he has to go on to like become, I would say like brave is certainly one of the themes or like become. Yeah.
00:57:21
Speaker
To become brave and to, to have integrity. Yeah. Yeah. And to like be, ah to to uphold the ideals of what it what it meant to be a knight in this like world and to have this sort of like steadfast like courage in ah times when it it would be really easy to not do that yeah um and I was like yes I also don't know if I have that so I see you
00:57:54
Speaker
Yeah. And it was great to like follow through that and have that alternative life where he continued on not having any of those things. And for him to come back and be like, nope, I don't want to that. Not worth it. Not worth it. Real shout out to the hair and makeup.
00:58:11
Speaker
designers and to the milliners. Like there's there's so many hats that we didn't talk about. There's like a bride with like crazy Aiko Ishioka-esque design going on. The cocoon bride. Yeah. like Who are you? like There's so much happening in this that this gets like a high, high recommend for me um because there's just like such beautiful stuff and so much knowledge on display here that it's it's really lovely. This needs to be needs to be watched. So everyone, you've got your homework.
00:58:47
Speaker
We'll grade you next time. That's right. There will be a pop quiz.
00:58:53
Speaker
I've never had a pop. I don't think pop quizzes are real. There's certain things where like people that didn't grow up in America will be like, I thought that yellow school buses didn't exist and they were only were in the movies. And then I moved to America and goddamn they're everywhere. Yeah.
00:59:06
Speaker
Pop quizzes. I did have pop quizzes. Did you? never had one in my life. I did. And I did not do well at them. Yeah. ah no I mean, I tested like pretty well overall, but yeah.
Preview of Next Episode
00:59:17
Speaker
but Like I'm not doing the reading. no I'm a big reader. But as soon as in school, they were like, you have to read this. i was like, I don't think I can read. would appreciate if someone would write a textbook that was interesting. Yeah, then I'd be like on board. But u oh, I don't think that's my fault. Yeah, no, that's not me. That's you.
00:59:39
Speaker
Oh my gosh. All right. Well, we've gone on this journey. um What journey are we going on next? a beautiful question that you ask. Thank you so much for coming on this adventure with us for The Green Knight. It was actually like a really, really good movie. And I'm so glad that it was because I had such high expectations, which was another reason why I delayed watching it for so long.
01:00:00
Speaker
Yeah, it can be scary. Yeah, I dove in. I felt brave. I have integrity now. Please join us on our next watch, which is Alice in Wonderland. But... Wait, who you might assume this would be the Disney's Tim Burton version. no, no, no.
01:00:17
Speaker
Yes, there are phenomenal costumes in that. But we are actually looking for a more accurate adaptation of Alice in Wonderland, i do believe. We're looking for people that told the story of Alice in Wonderland instead of making up their own story that wasn't that movie at all. so What we have found in some moments of discussion is Alice in Wonderland from 1999, which stars Tina Maggioreno. And it's got a lot of names that we recognize, including Whoopi Goldberg, Ben Kingsley, Christopher Lloyd, Martin Short, Miranda Richardson, and many others.
01:00:51
Speaker
This is, i think, Findable, you said, on Roku? And then... Roku, Tubi. I think it's also on Amazon Prime if there are people out there that have Amazon Prime.
01:01:02
Speaker
So this was, i it's a TV thing that seems like it was a combined NBC-BBC situation. That seems kind of a theme for us this season. as well like Many series and TV movies are movies, so deal with it. so We're just going to get in there.
01:01:18
Speaker
um But we read parts of a review that say that this is pretty worth it. So we are looking forward to watching this version of Alice in Wonderland and hope that you can find it and watch it too.
01:01:30
Speaker
So come along with us on our next episode. Down the rabbit hole. Oh, yeah. ah thanks for listening Bye. bye