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Diligence and Glorifying God in Everything with Brad Garnaat
69 Plays4 months ago
In this episode Jon and Nate invite Brad Garnaat on the podcast. Brad is the founder and Executive Director of Homeschool Performing Arts. He shares his story of being led to the arts by God, and reflects on the importance of diligence and seeking to glorify God through your service!
Brad is on the leadership team for Cultivate '25, and will be leading a workshop on vocal technique! Register today!
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Transcript
Introduction and Host's Note
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey friends, I just wanted to jump in here real quick and let you know that around the 45 minute mark, we did have a glitch with our audio in this episode.
00:00:08
Speaker
So you're going to see it switch to our backup audio.
00:00:11
Speaker
Well...
00:00:12
Speaker
gonna hear it switch to our backup audio you will not see a difference if you're watching it if you're not watching it then hopefully you'll only see the road um but we did have to switch to our backup audio about 15 20 minutes of that so the quality is a little bit worse but i i highly recommend sticking around listening to the rest of it this is a wonderful conversation with brad garnett who's a a great friend from uh homeschool performing arts you'll hear a little bit more about him in a in a moment but
00:00:37
Speaker
It's just such a wonderful, worthwhile conversation.
00:00:40
Speaker
So many rich insights that I can't wait to share with you guys.
00:00:44
Speaker
So stick around because it is absolutely worth it.
Meet the Hosts and Guest
00:00:48
Speaker
Hey, everybody.
00:00:49
Speaker
Welcome back to Artists of the Way.
00:00:51
Speaker
I'm John.
00:00:51
Speaker
I'm Dave.
00:00:52
Speaker
And we are the hosts of the podcast.
00:00:54
Speaker
And today we have a guest who I've been trying to get on for a long time, a good friend and I would say a mentor of mine, Brad Garnoff, who is the executive director of Homeschool Performing Arts.
00:01:05
Speaker
This was a real treat.
00:01:08
Speaker
Initially, we were talking about having him on because he is a part of our leadership team for the conference, the committee that's put it all together and helped design it.
Brad's Role in 'Cultivate 2025' Conference
00:01:17
Speaker
Cultivate.
00:01:17
Speaker
Cultivate.
00:01:18
Speaker
2025.
00:01:19
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:20
Speaker
It's like, come on, John, use the name.
00:01:22
Speaker
We worked on that name.
00:01:26
Speaker
Yes, we didn't really end up talking about the conference a whole lot, but we talked a lot about his story.
00:01:31
Speaker
Exactly.
00:01:32
Speaker
It's not a whole lot.
00:01:35
Speaker
But no, we talked a lot about Brad's story and just a lot of really great insights from his life and his work.
00:01:39
Speaker
I think it was a really great conversation.
Teaching and Performing at the Conference
00:01:41
Speaker
It was a beautiful conversation.
00:01:43
Speaker
At the conference, he's going to be teaching singing, correct?
00:01:48
Speaker
Yes, he's doing a workshop on an introduction to vocal technique for people who feel anxious about their voice or feel like maybe they can't sing.
00:01:57
Speaker
He's definitely been helpful for me in that and a lot of people.
00:02:01
Speaker
He's also going to be part of a panel that's doing like a masterclass workshop.
00:02:07
Speaker
So we're going to have a couple of attendees that will be selected to perform a piece, a monologue or a song in front of this panel.
00:02:17
Speaker
And then this panel will give them direction so people can watch the performer and learn from the feedback that they get for themselves as performers or they can watch and observe how do these three people direct this actor?
00:02:32
Speaker
How do they give direction?
Conference Details and Focus Areas
00:02:34
Speaker
Because that's something that's really hard to learn if you're trying to learn how to direct is what is giving direction, how do you do that?
00:02:40
Speaker
So we're hoping that that'll give a good opportunity for people to be able to glean some insights from that.
00:02:46
Speaker
That'll be great.
00:02:47
Speaker
The conference in general is going to be so cool.
00:02:49
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:49
Speaker
The lineup is awesome.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:51
Speaker
And I think everybody on the leaderships.
00:02:54
Speaker
leadership team is their DNA, I think has seeped into it.
00:02:58
Speaker
Well, I think they've, they've really brought a lot of passion to it.
00:03:02
Speaker
Um, it's really been a communal thing to put together.
00:03:05
Speaker
So if you want to maybe learn from Brad, see Brad at the conference, he'll definitely be there along with a lot of really great, uh, leaders in this,
00:03:15
Speaker
Christian theater world.
00:03:16
Speaker
So it's wonderful.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:19
Speaker
And it's a one day conference, but it is so full of stuff.
00:03:24
Speaker
You have kind of three different focuses that are going on at the same time, right?
00:03:29
Speaker
There is the performer focus, the director focus and faith focus.
00:03:35
Speaker
And yeah,
00:03:35
Speaker
And people can bounce around to which ones look interesting to them.
00:03:40
Speaker
But check out the website, artistoftheway.com, right?
00:03:44
Speaker
Yes.
00:03:45
Speaker
Nice.
00:03:45
Speaker
You got it.
00:03:46
Speaker
Good job.
00:03:48
Speaker
And it's a full, interesting
Brad's Artistic Journey
00:03:50
Speaker
schedule.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, and a lot of great instructors.
00:03:53
Speaker
I say it all the time, but I'm pinching myself that we've put this together.
00:03:57
Speaker
It's great.
00:03:57
Speaker
It's got welts.
00:03:58
Speaker
Yes, I do.
00:03:59
Speaker
It's painful.
00:04:00
Speaker
It hurts.
00:04:02
Speaker
But yes, without further ado, we're excited to share with you this conversation with Brad Gardner.
00:04:12
Speaker
Well, thank you for coming onto the podcast.
00:04:15
Speaker
I think you've been a guest that I've like had in my brain to have on since I started.
00:04:20
Speaker
So it's been like over two years now that I wanted to have you on.
00:04:23
Speaker
Right.
00:04:23
Speaker
So I'm very excited to get to have this conversation.
00:04:27
Speaker
And I think there's some things here I haven't picked your brain about before or heard your story about before.
00:04:31
Speaker
So I'm excited to hear some of those.
00:04:33
Speaker
See if you're shocked or not.
00:04:34
Speaker
I know.
00:04:36
Speaker
And Nate's here.
00:04:38
Speaker
Hi.
00:04:39
Speaker
You already said hi to the audience.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's right.
00:04:43
Speaker
Even though you've already everything's breaking down.
00:04:46
Speaker
Thanks for having me.
00:04:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:50
Speaker
So first I was wondering if you could just share a little bit with us and with any of the audience who may not know you, just what some of your story as an artist, as a Christian, how did you kind of get to this point?
00:05:01
Speaker
Sort of the
00:05:03
Speaker
I don't know, Cliff Notes version.
00:05:04
Speaker
Cliff Notes version.
00:05:05
Speaker
Okay, yeah, we'll try to keep it short.
00:05:07
Speaker
You could go longer.
00:05:08
Speaker
That's true.
00:05:08
Speaker
This could be the entire podcast.
00:05:10
Speaker
All right, that would be fun.
00:05:12
Speaker
There might be some overlapping things.
00:05:14
Speaker
Sure.
00:05:14
Speaker
Things we talk about later.
00:05:15
Speaker
I'm sure that always happens.
00:05:16
Speaker
But as an artist, I think generally speaking, I'm thankful for my heritage.
00:05:25
Speaker
My parents were musicians, our musicians.
00:05:29
Speaker
And so as I...
00:05:32
Speaker
Some of my youngest memories would be going with they would perform at churches, you know, they have a Sunday evening service and, you know, my mom plays piano and her and my dad would sing.
00:05:44
Speaker
And so I guess I would say I grew up singing and my first solo I can remember 14 in a church on a Sunday night.
00:05:52
Speaker
There was probably, you know, 44 people there or something.
00:05:55
Speaker
It's a little country church.
00:05:58
Speaker
um uh we will glorify the king of kings okay that's a good thing to say yeah yeah that was good nice and very theologically sound right right so that's uh you know so i grew up singing and uh was in choirs then in school and and uh love that uh my senior year of high school i had a friend talk me from choir talked me into trying out for the musical at school uh they had just finished a a new
00:06:27
Speaker
auditorium building project and all of that the prior year.
00:06:32
Speaker
And so
00:06:34
Speaker
I was like, okay, and because I was a guy and because I could sing.
00:06:39
Speaker
And for some reason they put me on the show.
00:06:43
Speaker
And I did find that like that was a really great growing experience.
00:06:51
Speaker
And I kind of decided to set aside my other priorities, which were basketball.
00:06:58
Speaker
Oh man.
00:07:00
Speaker
And we got another one.
00:07:01
Speaker
You could have gone so far.
00:07:03
Speaker
Actually, that was part of my thinking is like, okay, I know there is a ceiling that is not far away from me in basketball.
00:07:11
Speaker
That's true.
00:07:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:14
Speaker
So I did not try out for the team, even though I had worked really hard over the summer to try and pick up some playing time and all that.
Teaching and Directing Career Shift
00:07:23
Speaker
But then was cast in the show in the winter musical that they did.
00:07:30
Speaker
And so what school did you go to?
00:07:32
Speaker
Caledonia High School.
00:07:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:33
Speaker
That's where I graduated from.
00:07:34
Speaker
Nice.
00:07:36
Speaker
Yep.
00:07:37
Speaker
So we did Andy Get Your Gun.
00:07:39
Speaker
I played Frank Butler and was
00:07:43
Speaker
It just was something that I see God's steering me in this direction and also growing me in that experience.
00:07:54
Speaker
And yeah, I'm very grateful for that.
00:07:59
Speaker
I kind of lost where was the end of this going?
00:08:03
Speaker
Today, so we have a few more years to go.
00:08:08
Speaker
It is interesting the different kinds of ways theater can push you versus sports.
00:08:16
Speaker
Did you find like sports came easy to you or is that something you had to push yourself in and then theater pushed you in a different way?
00:08:23
Speaker
I had to push myself in sports.
00:08:25
Speaker
I mean, part of it was sort of unorthodox in the sense of I played baseball growing all, you know, all growing up.
00:08:34
Speaker
And that was, you know, if I, my dream was, you know, to be a shortstop for the Detroit Tigers, like Alan Tremel.
00:08:41
Speaker
But, but then when I was homeschooled from fifth to ninth grade, and so when I got
00:08:46
Speaker
done with eighth grade there was nowhere to play because back in those days you know there weren't travel links and all that at least yeah I wasn't nobody recruited me for those at least I don't know they didn't tell me that they were so then I then I switched to basketball because you could do that by yourself or so I was I was late I was late to that yeah
00:09:07
Speaker
But, and I also kind of consider myself a late bloomer, like because then after I didn't play basketball, I played a lot of basketball.
00:09:17
Speaker
And now I guess I would say I'm confident when I'm playing basketball.
00:09:22
Speaker
So I don't discredit sports or I don't, I appreciate them.
00:09:28
Speaker
I love to watch them, love to play them, everything.
00:09:31
Speaker
from volleyball to ping pong to you know whatever I love it all and I like to learn about them so of course you know pickleball I'm now into pickleball because that's yeah new and fun and it's good yeah okay good I think you're shaking your head no I was last night but didn't work out but we're gonna do it soon it's a very nice just pick it up and do it game right and then you can also
00:09:57
Speaker
make it a more intense, if that's your vibe, which it is for me.
00:10:02
Speaker
I mean, I like the casual play and all that, but I do like the intensity and the like, I'm trying as hard as I can and diving for balls.
00:10:11
Speaker
Anyway.
00:10:11
Speaker
That's what's wonderful about sports.
00:10:13
Speaker
You just try as hard as you can and get that intensity out in ways that I think it's hard to in other parts of life.
00:10:19
Speaker
Although I would sort of relate that to things in theater.
00:10:23
Speaker
You know, when you're talking about, I guess I would apply the same intensity to when I am watching, you know, choreography and I'm like, no, you all have to hit the beat at the same time.
00:10:35
Speaker
It doesn't work if you don't.
00:10:37
Speaker
And so that drive or...
00:10:41
Speaker
Sort of the all outness of it.
00:10:44
Speaker
You're going to sell out.
00:10:45
Speaker
You're going to be.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah, you got to sell out.
00:10:47
Speaker
So yeah, I like those things where you can dive around and, you know, be aggressive and
Foundation of Homeschool Performing Arts (HPA)
00:10:53
Speaker
beat somebody.
00:10:54
Speaker
It's like a little microcosm of life that like you get to this small space really push yourself and strive for excellence.
00:11:03
Speaker
and have failure and then recover from it.
00:11:06
Speaker
Right.
00:11:06
Speaker
It's a safe place to have failure to try something and work up those muscles.
00:11:12
Speaker
Right.
00:11:13
Speaker
Right.
00:11:13
Speaker
It's an important thing.
00:11:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:16
Speaker
Thank you for allowing me to talk sports with someone on this podcast.
00:11:21
Speaker
I feel so soothed.
00:11:23
Speaker
Yes.
00:11:24
Speaker
No, I think there's a lot of similarities in like what you guys are saying though and aren't like you were saying.
00:11:29
Speaker
I think of
00:11:31
Speaker
Theater especially, it's different muscles, but you're working those muscles.
00:11:34
Speaker
You have to chase it as intensely.
00:11:36
Speaker
It's different muscles.
00:11:37
Speaker
But for you to really give something that actually is of substance, you've got to really put in work.
00:11:43
Speaker
You've got to be, I think, as dedicated.
00:11:46
Speaker
It's a different...
00:11:47
Speaker
part of your brain and different muscles in your body, a different type of discipline.
00:11:52
Speaker
But you do have to give it that all as well and go through whatever microcosm you're going through in rehearsals and in the performance.
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:01
Speaker
And I see similarities in the beauty of it, like the structure and the logic and the flow.
00:12:07
Speaker
Because you've got these sort of guide rails that you can play between that you have some freedom to explore within.
00:12:13
Speaker
But you also can't go outside of those.
00:12:16
Speaker
Right.
00:12:16
Speaker
There's rules, there's things that you have to be consistent with, which is why people roll their eyes at the NBA and traveling calls.
00:12:28
Speaker
It's like, is it a rule or is it not a rule?
00:12:31
Speaker
And so actually I would say that's a thing that in the telling of story that I think is an important piece.
00:12:42
Speaker
Generally, you can't just be mixing conventions like, okay, we're gonna mime all of Act 1, but now in Act 2, we're gonna have props all over the place.
00:12:53
Speaker
Well, that doesn't seem logical.
00:12:57
Speaker
It's not fair to the audience to expect them to suspend their disbelief on this, but then like,
00:13:03
Speaker
totally, you know, throw them a curveball.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:06
Speaker
Right, right.
00:13:07
Speaker
It's like neither of those things should you be doing completely for yourself and just what feels good to you.
00:13:13
Speaker
Like if you're playing basketball and suddenly you're just doing ballet during the third quarter.
00:13:19
Speaker
It's like, what is happening here?
00:13:21
Speaker
This is not what this is.
00:13:23
Speaker
Do what it is.
00:13:25
Speaker
True.
00:13:26
Speaker
But it would really confuse the other players.
00:13:28
Speaker
You know, I actually kind of would do something.
00:13:32
Speaker
I had theater in my bones before I had an outlet for it.
00:13:38
Speaker
What was it that eventually led you to pursue theater and theater education as a career instead of just kind of the thing you were doing in high school?
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:49
Speaker
That's probably part two of the story here.
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:51
Speaker
Is that when I was in high school,
00:13:56
Speaker
I was like, oh, being on stage is great, once I discovered it, right?
00:13:59
Speaker
And I'm like, man.
00:14:01
Speaker
And I remember my high school director talking about when she performed and all that.
00:14:05
Speaker
I'm like, why did you ever stop performing?
00:14:07
Speaker
Why would you not want to be the performer?
00:14:11
Speaker
Again, my naivety and youthfulness, youthful exuberance maybe.
00:14:15
Speaker
I give myself some credit there.
00:14:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:18
Speaker
But I had, again, by God's grace and his working, I had an opportunity where somebody from my church who led a co-op asked me to direct just like a small thing for their co-op.
00:14:36
Speaker
And and that was my first taste of like teaching and coaching and and then also the like art and like, oh, oh, I get to have a hand in the whole thing, not just my thing.
00:14:50
Speaker
Right.
00:14:51
Speaker
As an actor.
00:14:54
Speaker
And so that.
00:14:56
Speaker
That really, I would say, opened my mind and I would say opened a passion for something, for working with people, for crafting the whole, again, very infantile in its stage, but
00:15:13
Speaker
But again, a piece of what God used to steer my life path.
00:15:18
Speaker
Because I look back at that.
00:15:21
Speaker
I don't know why they asked me to do it.
00:15:23
Speaker
I kind of think I was the only one they knew who did any theater.
00:15:28
Speaker
That's kind of my guess.
00:15:30
Speaker
Although, just to testify to God's sovereignty and working, I did just a couple of years ago at the funeral of the lady who had asked me to.
00:15:43
Speaker
There was somebody else, um,
00:15:46
Speaker
who said, I remember meeting with her and praying with her for like, God, who would you have for doing this tiny little production in this tiny co-op thing.
00:16:01
Speaker
And so that was, I mean, I didn't know that.
00:16:03
Speaker
I mean, I guess I could assume they were seeking God's guidance, but I hadn't specifically heard it or talked to them, either one of them in 20 years or something, 25 years.
00:16:13
Speaker
But...
00:16:16
Speaker
So thinking of that again, a stone in the brook that steered me a different direction.
00:16:25
Speaker
Those prayers changed your life.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:29
Speaker
Even though they didn't know they were directly praying for me.
00:16:34
Speaker
Right.
00:16:34
Speaker
Right.
00:16:37
Speaker
Yeah, so then kind of fast forward, I guess, to I was in school for a couple of years, still kind of thinking performancey.
00:16:47
Speaker
And then I was out of school for several years and working and got married, had a couple of kids.
00:16:55
Speaker
And by a few years after that, I just really felt about leading me to, I was,
00:17:05
Speaker
into teaching so I went back to school to get my music ed degree to sort of kind of finish the other half.
00:17:11
Speaker
When did you go to school for the first time?
00:17:13
Speaker
It was vocal performance to begin with.
00:17:16
Speaker
I did switch to education because somewhere between the start of school and you know a couple years in I did meet a girl who then became my wife and I was like I would like to get married someday and so
00:17:36
Speaker
At least in my situation.
00:17:38
Speaker
Kind of like basketball.
00:17:39
Speaker
It was not going to be the way to support.
00:17:42
Speaker
Although I did get to coach basketball, which was another piece of learning about how I liked working with people.
00:17:48
Speaker
Who did you coach?
00:17:49
Speaker
Oh, way back, the Southeast Cougars.
00:17:52
Speaker
The Southeast Cougars.
00:17:53
Speaker
I played for the Hudsonville.
00:17:54
Speaker
I coached for the Hudsonville Hornets.
00:17:56
Speaker
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:57
Speaker
Now this would have been the early version of it, you know, because that goes back a good long ways.
00:18:02
Speaker
Nice.
00:18:02
Speaker
Yeah, the Southeast Cougars.
00:18:04
Speaker
Blue.
00:18:08
Speaker
So then I guess what's the next fast forward would be
00:18:13
Speaker
how I got, and this would also kind of explain how HPA started, but when I went back to school, they had implemented a requirement for graduating was to, you had to have an internship.
00:18:27
Speaker
Well, I was married, I had two kids, I was working basically a full-time job in a three-quarter to half amount of hours, and again, God's providence there, where
00:18:39
Speaker
they allowed me to work after hours it was customer service so it didn't really make sense yeah it wasn't helpful to them I mean I had a lot of you know work you know paperwork and writing all that sort of thing but so
Current and Upcoming Projects
00:18:55
Speaker
basically for my internship I made up
00:19:03
Speaker
a situation where I would do for a co-op, like for a co-op, I did a choir class and I did a drama class and I would do a junior high, high school class for choir and an elementary choir and a junior high school drama and a junior high school choir.
00:19:26
Speaker
And so I presented this to my
00:19:29
Speaker
supervising professor and she agreed to be the supervisor for my internship.
00:19:38
Speaker
So again, as I look back, I got to praise God for, you know, even if even putting her within, I guess, creative minds and
00:19:51
Speaker
open to non-conventional, I guess.
00:19:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:55
Speaker
And so, so I, you know, I charged a small tuition and did it and built that like that's, that was that.
00:20:01
Speaker
And, and so I went ahead and did it the next semester.
00:20:06
Speaker
It was met a need and it was, I enjoyed it.
00:20:11
Speaker
And so it kind of grew from there.
00:20:12
Speaker
I added another location and, um,
00:20:18
Speaker
Yeah, that was kind of the early life of that.
00:20:24
Speaker
I guess to fast forward, when I was finishing school and I did my student teaching, was in a really fantastic situation at Jenison Public High School under some really great men who had great music programs and learned a lot from Les Rousey.
00:20:46
Speaker
So I said I'd frame all that to say I did not have a poor experience with dead and led me somewhere else.
00:20:52
Speaker
I had a really public school
00:20:57
Speaker
I had a really good experience and I loved what they were doing.
00:21:00
Speaker
But as I was coming to the end of my student teaching, I really sensed God leading me to do this, take this path rather than what was my plan, which was teaching choir in school.
00:21:14
Speaker
And so then...
00:21:18
Speaker
yeah go ahead what was that like was that a scary move to embrace that instead of the structure of a public school choir job providing for a family with this thing that you're just starting by yourself uh okay that is a fantastic question because I do think it's a big part of the testimony the prior year uh meaning uh in
00:21:41
Speaker
that year leading up to that point we in Sunday school we were doing experiencing God and we were studying the names of God and I look back again and say this was God's grace he taught me in that in our study of that about him as Jehovah Jireh the Lord will provide when he provided the ram for sacrifice
00:22:04
Speaker
And that when I sensed him leading me this, then I said, okay, you're going to have to be Jehovah Jireh because I don't.
00:22:17
Speaker
I had two kids.
00:22:20
Speaker
It was not going to be lucrative.
00:22:25
Speaker
And well, there wasn't even anything to say there was going to be anything.
00:22:31
Speaker
No lucre at all.
00:22:34
Speaker
So that was something that I feel like he prepared me to obey him by giving me that lesson and knowing him better that way.
00:22:48
Speaker
Now I can say, as I look back, I was very narrow-minded in my like, you got to provide money
Impact of Theater on Personal Growth
00:22:57
Speaker
because I need to be responsible and care for my family and all that.
00:23:00
Speaker
So I need to provide money.
00:23:02
Speaker
As I look at all of the ways he's provided, there's so many layers.
00:23:07
Speaker
It's so much more when I think of like, even like locations to perform and I think of like scripts, right?
00:23:17
Speaker
Because I mean, I wouldn't say there's just an unlimited amount of good scripts.
00:23:22
Speaker
Right.
00:23:24
Speaker
Especially in the particular context of high school theater and high school Christian theater.
00:23:29
Speaker
than very large cast high school theater now.
00:23:32
Speaker
Yeah, that's limiting.
00:23:33
Speaker
Right.
00:23:34
Speaker
So there's things that are very, again, he's not limited by conventional.
00:23:39
Speaker
Right.
00:23:40
Speaker
And our, if you will, how we even got into where it is that we normally perform now was just...
00:23:55
Speaker
Again, his working out and working through people, things that I couldn't have done.
00:24:01
Speaker
Right.
00:24:02
Speaker
And so I'm very.
00:24:05
Speaker
Thankful for that.
00:24:06
Speaker
So yeah, that was a big piece of it.
00:24:10
Speaker
And so, yeah, it's just, I think of it kind of like the scripture that's like talking about, you know, these things are to show the manifold wisdom.
00:24:19
Speaker
And I think of manifold at many layers and the interweaving of tapestry.
00:24:24
Speaker
So now when I think of Jehovah Jireh,
00:24:26
Speaker
Like, yes, it is providing for redemption and yes, it is providing, you know, for our needs.
00:24:33
Speaker
And but it's like but it's like grace and his gifts are it's like so many layers of that.
00:24:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:40
Speaker
So cool.
00:24:41
Speaker
Anyway.
00:24:42
Speaker
That's, yeah, good.
00:24:44
Speaker
I appreciate that question because that was, again, an important pillar in the book, if you will, of steering.
00:24:53
Speaker
I feel like that can be just a challenging thing to trust sometimes, especially if you're like really trying to be like, trying to be a good Orthodox Christian that has like a
Art, Storytelling, and God's Reflection
00:25:02
Speaker
really good view of what salvation is about and what God is about.
00:25:05
Speaker
Like, I feel like there's a strong hesitancy to be like,
00:25:08
Speaker
God's going to give me so much more, you know, like he'll give me what I need.
00:25:14
Speaker
And it's probably going to be hard because he wants to refine me.
00:25:17
Speaker
And, you know, it's all going to be this challenge that I'm really only going to make it through with him, like dragging me by a leash.
00:25:26
Speaker
But at least I'll have been dragged up there, you know.
00:25:29
Speaker
I think it's hard for, at least it is for me, maybe I'm just projecting my issues on the world.
00:25:36
Speaker
I think it's hard a lot of times to be like, no, he'll give us more than we can ask or imagine.
00:25:41
Speaker
And that doesn't just mean salvation, though it does.
00:25:45
Speaker
Which can be hard to square with like, well, there's also suffering and lack in the world.
00:25:50
Speaker
But he does say, I want to give you an abundant life.
00:25:55
Speaker
I want to give you more than you can ask or imagine.
00:25:57
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:25:58
Speaker
So that it's amazing to get to see a testimony of that.
00:26:02
Speaker
And, you know, I echo a lot of what you're saying where I'm like, yeah, all these anything that I have, I feel like I can see how that's come from God.
00:26:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:10
Speaker
Just from that.
00:26:11
Speaker
And it was not me.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:14
Speaker
But it is, I feel like even after seeing that, it's still scary.
00:26:17
Speaker
I'm like, okay, but are you going to do it this time?
00:26:19
Speaker
Or am I just assuming you are and I'm going to go for this crazy thing?
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:24
Speaker
And it's cool to see that testimony of it.
00:26:27
Speaker
That's great.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:31
Speaker
I want to.
00:26:33
Speaker
I'm just gonna go slow, audience.
00:26:35
Speaker
Just take a breather.
00:26:36
Speaker
Digest that.
00:26:37
Speaker
Digest that.
00:26:38
Speaker
Nate, help them digest that while I look.
00:26:39
Speaker
So you gotta chew it first.
00:26:41
Speaker
People don't always remember.
00:26:42
Speaker
This is Nate's favorite thing is when I ask him to stall for me, because I need to go get a book from the other room.
00:26:46
Speaker
The first part of digestion is your teeth.
00:26:49
Speaker
Is it?
00:26:50
Speaker
Yeah, we could just talk about it.
00:26:54
Speaker
Right.
00:26:55
Speaker
That would be because then you're breaking it down.
00:26:57
Speaker
Because then you're breaking it down, preparing it for the stomach.
00:27:01
Speaker
Have you found your question yet?
00:27:03
Speaker
No, I got invested in this digestion conversation.
00:27:08
Speaker
Oh, I didn't.
00:27:09
Speaker
I haven't even asked one of my regular questions that I always ask.
00:27:15
Speaker
I know they're like, come on, John.
00:27:17
Speaker
I just got into the conversation.
00:27:18
Speaker
It was great.
00:27:19
Speaker
I'll ask you the two questions I always ask everybody.
Serving Through Theater
00:27:22
Speaker
I haven't done that yet.
00:27:23
Speaker
One, I'm wondering,
00:27:25
Speaker
What things are you working on right now, first of all?
00:27:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:29
Speaker
And can I answer right now with what I just got done with and then what's coming up?
00:27:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:34
Speaker
That'll be fine.
00:27:35
Speaker
Literally, what am I doing?
00:27:37
Speaker
Well, I just say this summer I was part of the story production as an actor.
00:27:44
Speaker
Right.
00:27:45
Speaker
What did you play in that?
00:27:49
Speaker
Well, because it is a wide variety of things.
00:27:53
Speaker
But I did Abraham and Job and Bad Guy Pharisee and stuff like that.
00:28:00
Speaker
Pharisee number five.
00:28:01
Speaker
Right.
00:28:02
Speaker
Along with, obviously, the ensemble is sharing the scripture.
00:28:07
Speaker
Right.
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:09
Speaker
So it's an artful compiling of scripture around.
00:28:15
Speaker
the story book that was, I don't know, 10 or 15 years ago or something.
00:28:21
Speaker
Was it something like-
00:28:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was like 2012 or something.
00:28:25
Speaker
Was it?
00:28:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:26
Speaker
I was going to be in that and then COVID shut down.
00:28:28
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:28:29
Speaker
Part of that performance.
00:28:30
Speaker
Right.
00:28:30
Speaker
But I've been through the rehearsals of that show.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:28:36
Speaker
That was a painful time for sure.
00:28:38
Speaker
Indeed.
00:28:39
Speaker
But yeah, that was good to do.
00:28:42
Speaker
It's always good to shake some rust off and
00:28:47
Speaker
Get back in there and like, okay, if I'm yelling this to my students all the time, am I doing it?
00:28:54
Speaker
Am I doing what I would yell at them?
00:28:57
Speaker
So that was good.
00:28:58
Speaker
Anyway, that just was the end of July.
00:29:01
Speaker
But now we have just started the process of this season for Homeschool Performing Arts.
00:29:07
Speaker
So we have...
00:29:09
Speaker
We have Coming Up in Grand Rapids.
00:29:13
Speaker
We have Honk the Musical, which is a really great story and really creative telling.
00:29:19
Speaker
It's not all kiddie, which the title can sometimes lead people to believe.
00:29:25
Speaker
It's good and deep and good music and fun story.
00:29:29
Speaker
I just saw it for the first time when Midway did it.
00:29:32
Speaker
It was really fun.
00:29:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:34
Speaker
Yep, I think it's smart and there's lots of good things to dig into for the story.
00:29:42
Speaker
And then Kalamazoo, our group in Kalamazoo is doing the Clockmaker's Daughter.
00:29:46
Speaker
What is that about?
00:29:47
Speaker
Because I've never heard of that.
00:29:48
Speaker
It's about the Clockmaker's Daughter.
00:29:50
Speaker
Oh, okay, thank you, Nick.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yes.
00:29:51
Speaker
Okay, cool.
00:29:51
Speaker
We can move on then.
00:29:52
Speaker
Right.
00:29:53
Speaker
The first thing that she learns is how to chew her food.
00:29:58
Speaker
Yeah, well you want a short
Mentorship and Artistic Development
00:30:05
Speaker
synopsis.
00:30:05
Speaker
I like the premise.
00:30:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's well, okay, let's go premise.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah, because it's about a guy it's set in you know sort of sort of medieval-ish But there's a clockmaker and but he loses his daughter and
00:30:25
Speaker
He is working on creating a replacement daughter.
00:30:29
Speaker
Oh, interesting.
00:30:31
Speaker
You probably ought not do that, I'm guessing.
00:30:37
Speaker
yeah you know yeah so it's it's a it's really great it's it's new I don't know if it's been done in Michigan before yeah it's a really sweet the music is fantastic it's it's it's a deep I guess would say you know you you have to contemplate and wrestle with some things and isn't necessarily all rosy but
00:31:03
Speaker
But really well constructed, really smartly written.
00:31:07
Speaker
Like a clock.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:11
Speaker
The author is like, I'm going to write this about me.
00:31:13
Speaker
I'm a clock maker.
00:31:14
Speaker
Because I'm so intricate with my plot.
00:31:18
Speaker
Good job, me.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's good, though.
00:31:20
Speaker
And then Lansing closes our season in April with Annie.
00:31:25
Speaker
Nice.
00:31:26
Speaker
Which is lots of fun.
00:31:28
Speaker
As I think back of God's providing scripts, I do remember...
00:31:32
Speaker
The first time that I directed Annie being like, I really am not interested in directing and I don't really love it.
00:31:40
Speaker
But once I did it, I really fell in love with the story.
00:31:45
Speaker
I think, again, there's lots of good meaty stuff in there to wrestle with.
00:31:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:51
Speaker
If you can just keep your young lady from not screaming everything, then it can actually be pleasant.
00:32:01
Speaker
Wow, yes.
00:32:02
Speaker
It's an accomplishment.
00:32:04
Speaker
It can be done.
00:32:05
Speaker
Right.
00:32:06
Speaker
So anyway, that is the season.
00:32:08
Speaker
We have an unconventional rehearsal schedule in that we rehearse once a week through starting in the fall.
00:32:15
Speaker
And then we kind of have a two and a half week blitz at the end where we move into the theater.
00:32:21
Speaker
and put it all together and then open the show and close it strike and get out of there.
00:32:25
Speaker
And so it's anyway, so that that is what I'm doing.
00:32:31
Speaker
But that is over the whole year.
00:32:33
Speaker
Right.
00:32:34
Speaker
Well, and I guess one other thing I'll just throw out is we as a staff are going to be doing When Calls the Heart.
00:32:42
Speaker
Yes.
00:32:43
Speaker
Which this is going to tie some circles and I'll share this with our audience or whatever along the way.
00:32:49
Speaker
But
Freedom in Christ for Artists
00:32:52
Speaker
One of my professors at Cornerstone is well, two professors at Cornerstone wrote it.
00:32:58
Speaker
So one wrote the music and one wrote the book for it.
00:33:02
Speaker
But my
00:33:05
Speaker
The lady, Dr. Galloway, who wrote the music for it was the one who was my supervising professor who approved and oversaw my internship.
00:33:17
Speaker
Again, so one of these full circle moments.
00:33:20
Speaker
So that's super exciting to me.
00:33:22
Speaker
And I was also in the premiere when it premiered at Cornerstone.
00:33:24
Speaker
I thought so, because Master Art said that several years ago and my little brother was in it.
00:33:28
Speaker
And I think he showed who was in the original cast.
00:33:31
Speaker
Yeah, there's a picture in the front of the script and all.
00:33:33
Speaker
You're right.
00:33:34
Speaker
Nice.
00:33:35
Speaker
So this is our 25th season of main stage productions.
00:33:39
Speaker
So that is part of a celebration.
00:33:42
Speaker
I mean, you could call it a celebration.
00:33:45
Speaker
a celebrating, a thanks, kind of a customer appreciation, if you will.
00:33:50
Speaker
Some of it is like hopefully a gift to our students, you know, that they can see us again as we it'll be after this season, you know, in the summer.
00:34:00
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:00
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:34:03
Speaker
Where are you going to do that one?
00:34:06
Speaker
That is in the works still, but probably around Grand Rapids is where we'll actually perform, which is the most center, if you will, of all of our families and stuff.
00:34:19
Speaker
Cool, neat.
00:34:22
Speaker
So the other question, I feel like I'm like, how long are we?
00:34:25
Speaker
We're a ways in.
00:34:26
Speaker
We're like half an hour in.
00:34:27
Speaker
This is probably the longest I've gone without asking the second question.
00:34:30
Speaker
I'm just flabbergasted at myself.
00:34:32
Speaker
But what are ways for you, either as an artist creating or as somebody taking in art that you feel like God is using art in your life right now?
00:34:44
Speaker
I think having just done the story there was lots of consumption and memorization of Scripture and considering those so that was an artful again presentation or construction yeah that you know hopefully you know some of that is it gets in here and I mean as we hope for the audience too but
00:35:09
Speaker
But even thinking of the return void.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:14
Speaker
So I think I guess we can go big and philosophical or something.
00:35:22
Speaker
I think all like there's just so many ways in which we can
00:35:31
Speaker
be caused to consider and see how do things like what did what did God how does this reflect God as a creative person or as a being or a loving father or you know somebody who is you know coaching and prodding us or
00:35:53
Speaker
Or even just like or him as a as a logical creative creator like the construction of things and so if I mean you you can you can try and get away from structure, but then you can't ever really get away from structure because we live in a structure We are a structure.
00:36:15
Speaker
It may be feel chaotic, right?
00:36:17
Speaker
Right, but
00:36:18
Speaker
not to him.
00:36:22
Speaker
And so, you know, if you think of music and I like all sorts of music, you know, from opera to heavy metal.
00:36:29
Speaker
And so like they each have their own, if you will, construction.
00:36:33
Speaker
It's basically the same thing.
00:36:36
Speaker
Opera, heavy metal.
00:36:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:38
Speaker
They're really going for it.
00:36:40
Speaker
I mean, they do have some of the most extra costumes in stage performance.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like that circle kind of, it's like the horseshoe theory of the opera in heaven.
00:36:51
Speaker
Small steps, yeah.
00:36:53
Speaker
But even when you think about things like jazz or whatever that are like...
00:36:59
Speaker
you know, complex and maybe free flowing, but still free flowing within some sort of structure.
00:37:07
Speaker
You're in a key.
00:37:09
Speaker
Right.
00:37:09
Speaker
Even if you're meandering, there is at least somewhere you started and you go somewhere.
00:37:18
Speaker
So I think I just think there are opportunities.
00:37:22
Speaker
to see things about the goodness of God or just about his beauty.
00:37:28
Speaker
I think there's things that can compel us to think and consider things.
00:37:34
Speaker
So if you think of an interstellar, you can appreciate so many layers.
00:37:40
Speaker
You can think the music is so rich and meaningful to the telling of the story and just also
00:37:49
Speaker
Really beautiful by itself, right?
00:37:50
Speaker
You know, I'm so like you can stand alone, but it's it's not there to stand alone.
Resources for Christian Artists
00:37:55
Speaker
It's there to serve the storytelling but but if you think of Again, just if you think of like how things get saved if you will or if you think about even contemplating
00:38:09
Speaker
a god who is not stuck in time like we are yeah you know now you're now you're like they might put words on it in the in the film or in the character or in the story right but but that causes you to think about a god who is
00:38:25
Speaker
who isn't an author and he is not confined to time.
00:38:31
Speaker
And so it isn't, then is less bizarre to think about, you know, this here and this here where we see it linearly.
00:38:41
Speaker
Right.
00:38:43
Speaker
He is not stuck in the linear.
00:38:45
Speaker
Right.
00:38:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:46
Speaker
Anyway, so I guess those are just some little examples.
00:38:51
Speaker
Some of the things.
00:38:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:55
Speaker
It's kind of like you had a thought.
00:38:56
Speaker
I was waiting for you to say something.
00:38:57
Speaker
No, I was ready for you to.
00:38:58
Speaker
Cool.
00:38:59
Speaker
Get the next question.
00:39:00
Speaker
Yeah, man.
00:39:00
Speaker
Well, yeah, I'm curious about several things and they're all right here.
00:39:05
Speaker
I just.
00:39:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:08
Speaker
He keeps his curiosity down here.
00:39:10
Speaker
I do.
00:39:11
Speaker
All my thoughts are right here.
00:39:13
Speaker
Very structured.
00:39:13
Speaker
That's good.
00:39:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:17
Speaker
So one of the things I was curious about, because this is definitely.
00:39:24
Speaker
a core theme that I see just generally in Christian theater and I definitely have seen with you and when I was doing HPA was the concept of we're creating to God's glory.
00:39:37
Speaker
We're trying to do this for the glory of God ultimately.
00:39:42
Speaker
Even if we're doing a Mary Poppins or an Annie or a Honk or Wind Calls the Heart, you know, we still want to do this to the glory of God.
00:39:51
Speaker
What do you think
00:39:54
Speaker
for you, what does that mean to create to the glory of God?
00:39:57
Speaker
And then what does that look like in the context of theater and of what you do in theater?
00:40:02
Speaker
Yeah, that is going to be
00:40:07
Speaker
Not a simple thing, right?
00:40:10
Speaker
Because I think like when I, you know, I'm visual and so I see things in like I'm compartmentalized.
00:40:19
Speaker
So I see things in like pieces or layers.
00:40:22
Speaker
And so like I'll talk about things on a plane, right?
00:40:26
Speaker
So if I take the plane of, you know, doing it as unto the Lord, doing it to the glory of God, like
00:40:37
Speaker
So if I go content, okay.
00:40:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:40:39
Speaker
Well, I think there is some content that, and it doesn't have to be, you know, evangelistic.
00:40:45
Speaker
It doesn't have to be the story, which is scripture.
00:40:48
Speaker
Like it can be something that's a tragedy or whatever.
00:40:52
Speaker
Like, but, but I do think.
00:40:56
Speaker
content has to be considered and it and there either either has to be I guess what's he serving a purpose and so but again that that can be a wide range of things and I think I think there's you know when we talk about walking through the valley of the shadow of death okay well there's there's
00:41:19
Speaker
stories that are going to reflect that or tell that or share that and we don't have to run away from them just because they're uncomfortable or they have a sad ending or whatever.
00:41:33
Speaker
So, but I do think
00:41:35
Speaker
There are also content that you would say, okay, this is anti anything that God has built.
00:41:43
Speaker
And so it's kind of hard to say that I'm going to do that content as unto the Lord or unto God's glory.
00:41:53
Speaker
I realize there's Christian liberty there for people to you know because there's people who I'm sure there's people would look at what we do and say how can you be doing that you're saying it's under the Lord right right any it's crying this pagan crap and redheads they're witches man that's your main character what are you doing on that layer I mean so so that's that's one
00:42:20
Speaker
point on a plane.
00:42:24
Speaker
But I think there's a big pool on that plane.
00:42:26
Speaker
It's not unlimited, but there's lots of range of things.
00:42:30
Speaker
So then if you go to like, how do we do
00:42:36
Speaker
the craft.
00:42:38
Speaker
Again, like I was saying before, you can't be disrespectful to the audience and say, okay, we're not going to use any props.
00:42:44
Speaker
We're just going to mime them all.
00:42:45
Speaker
And now all of a sudden we're going to throw in a whole bunch of props.
00:42:50
Speaker
Like how we do it, and if you will, learning the craft and executing the craft and being committed to it.
00:42:58
Speaker
And again, we're not going to reach perfection.
00:43:00
Speaker
but doing it with the goal of doing it to the best of our ability by God's grace and what he's given us and the opportunity that he's given us.
00:43:10
Speaker
And then if you go to the layer of even just like the organization, I'm thankful that God has brought many people to HPA who their gifting was organization and structure.
00:43:22
Speaker
And so it has been built over the years
00:43:28
Speaker
by some great people with great giftings.
00:43:32
Speaker
And I would say, artists and theater companies don't tend to generally have a reputation of being well organized because it's usually a bunch of artists getting together.
00:43:47
Speaker
No finger pointing.
00:43:47
Speaker
No finger pointing.
00:43:49
Speaker
I can be organized.
00:43:50
Speaker
Look at that bookshelf.
00:43:51
Speaker
No, actually, that's not the organized bookshelf.
00:43:53
Speaker
Never mind.
00:43:53
Speaker
Don't look at that bookshelf.
00:43:55
Speaker
Or the desk.
00:43:56
Speaker
Look at the bookshelf out there.
00:43:57
Speaker
I've disavowed in a couple of these organizations.
00:44:00
Speaker
But it's your room, so you don't have to, like, you know, it's not.
00:44:04
Speaker
It's organized in my mind.
00:44:05
Speaker
You do a great job, buddy.
00:44:07
Speaker
Thanks.
00:44:07
Speaker
But that but even that sense of like okay if we're gonna say the schedule is from here to here And so we are asking you to commit to it then we need to be true to our work Yeah, and saying okay, we're not gonna expect you to say 10 hours longer.
00:44:22
Speaker
Yeah, right like somebody had to make plans I mean when I think of the in the investment of the family for their child to participate in what we're doing like I know it's that I
00:44:34
Speaker
Most of the kids are not driving themselves there and they're, you know, they're not doing this in a vacuum.
00:44:39
Speaker
It's parents who are committing and making.
00:44:42
Speaker
So anyway, so trying to be well thought through so that we're not just flippant, if you will, with, you know, schedules.
00:44:54
Speaker
So I think of even that as doing something that's done to the Lord and serving the people who are participating.
00:45:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:04
Speaker
And then so anyway, I think you could take a million different layers.
00:45:09
Speaker
We have opportunity to pour into
00:45:14
Speaker
the students, right?
00:45:15
Speaker
And so, you know, I'll take an opportunity where I see, okay, here's something we're wrestling with, with a character and just like time out a second, like think about this in real life, right?
00:45:29
Speaker
When are we tempted to make that terrible choice or when are we...
00:45:36
Speaker
Yeah, anyway, without being judgmental to the story or the character, we can still evaluate it and consider it and think about, okay, what do I need to do either so I don't put myself in that situation or so that I can make a choice that honors you.
00:45:54
Speaker
And so there's lots of anecdotal opportunities.
00:46:01
Speaker
you know, of being able to talk through that and pull it back into real life because
00:46:08
Speaker
I guess would say there's when are they going to get that opportunity to hear that to cause them to consider, you know, what's the choices you're making that might relate to this?
00:46:26
Speaker
You know, is there just like coasting along in their life or whatever?
00:46:30
Speaker
I think of.
00:46:32
Speaker
I think a lot of perspective, right?
00:46:34
Speaker
Like the older I get, hopefully there's some more perspective I can get.
00:46:39
Speaker
But part of it is seeing and calling them to that.
00:46:44
Speaker
And if I can just time out and say that was something that Chris McDonald did for me when I was in Pirates of Penzance back, whatever that was, 20-something years ago.
00:47:02
Speaker
I had instincts, but I didn't have any formal training in drama.
00:47:12
Speaker
I just remember her asking me questions about who was my character.
00:47:19
Speaker
Tech week or I mean a show week like you know a night or two before opening night and I remember just like Rocking my world be like holy cow I never even thought about I just tried to like entertain you know like sing well and like do this well and Had had had really no clue because nobody had ever really right caused me to think about that and so again that's one of those Brooks in the in the water and then in sorry stones in the brook that
00:47:46
Speaker
Steered me very much affected the trajectory of my directing style and so cool how to How to help the kids learn how to do the craft that that I'm very thankful for that.
00:48:04
Speaker
Yeah, I wasn't that day, but I definitely was after that.
00:48:09
Speaker
Yeah
00:48:10
Speaker
see the fruit of that as I see you know how much if I hadn't had that like fine we might be doing nice stuff or whatever but having that then then I see the fruit in my actors all the time of like okay they're there they they have built the character and know their motivations and their goals and all of that sort of thing so that now
00:48:39
Speaker
They can make a choice in a moment of the story.
00:48:44
Speaker
I'm saying them as an actor can make a choice.
00:48:47
Speaker
And it's rich.
00:48:49
Speaker
It's deep.
00:48:50
Speaker
It's believable.
00:48:51
Speaker
So now we're serving the audience.
00:48:53
Speaker
by giving them something that they can sink their teeth into.
00:48:59
Speaker
Again, believe.
00:49:00
Speaker
And again, to that ripple effect, I know how you directed impacted a lot of John when he was under your directorship along with Chris directing you as well.
00:49:11
Speaker
And then John's directed me in shows and has really helped me dig into
00:49:16
Speaker
these things as well.
00:49:17
Speaker
So it's just beautiful to see how these things get passed on beyond the direct.
00:49:21
Speaker
And if you keep zooming out, right, think of like, because that was how many years Pris had been doing it.
00:49:26
Speaker
And I'm going to think of going to, you know, going to the CETA conferences and being able to be poured into by Dr. Patton and Pris.
00:49:35
Speaker
I remember her doing the one session on the,
00:49:40
Speaker
We all had to pick a character from our town.
00:49:42
Speaker
It was a little bit, it was just an exercise thing.
00:49:47
Speaker
But again, I remember just being like, wow, that's so rich.
00:49:51
Speaker
And so I think about, again, richness is a word I use a lot because if you think of
00:49:58
Speaker
You know if somebody's just plunking around on a keyboard, you know like that's fine like I do every time for that That's fine for that, right?
00:50:10
Speaker
But it doesn't and I wouldn't say don't start somewhere, you know don't not start because you can't be sure but then to think about the richness of you know like a Whatever a full orchestral score or something again going back to
00:50:28
Speaker
Yeah, just the richness of that.
00:50:31
Speaker
Anyway.
00:50:32
Speaker
No, I can really relate to that.
00:50:33
Speaker
This has actually helped me think about some of what we were talking about earlier because I played basketball in high school and that was more difficult for me than when I started doing theater after college because I was like, this is just having fun on stage.
00:50:51
Speaker
Whereas basketball, I really had to mentally and physically push myself.
00:50:55
Speaker
I think I probably did a lot of shows where I'm just like mainly just having fun on stage and it's not really I think it's been more like more recent shows and some of the shows that John's directed me and I was like oh wait that was difficult and I was being pushed that maybe I just wasn't doing it right before yeah and I think of God's you know
00:51:17
Speaker
patience with us, right?
00:51:19
Speaker
And so like the opportunity to grow again, if that's, you know, I was there too, right?
00:51:26
Speaker
If that's where we were then, that's not a waste in the path, but hopefully, you know, God as he promises to not just leave us where we are, but to like conform us to the image of Christ.
00:51:41
Speaker
Hopefully there's somebody along the way, like Briss did for us, that is helping us not stay where we're at.
00:51:51
Speaker
And I guess I would say not everybody
00:51:58
Speaker
I guess as a director and teacher heart, then, well, I'm generally not gonna let my actors stay where they're at.
00:52:07
Speaker
I do have the luxury of it's, it is, if you will, educational setting, and so on some level they have to listen to me, but they don't really have to, but they do, I get, you know, so anyway, I'm just saying, I'm gonna, I'm gonna,
00:52:26
Speaker
push them, I'm gonna drive them, I'm going to encourage them.
00:52:30
Speaker
And then some of that comes in the mix of having relationship with them so that it's not just me barking at them all the time, right?
00:52:39
Speaker
I would assume your relationship with John allowed... It's horrible, and so... So it's the norm that I yell at him.
00:52:47
Speaker
And you can take it and see that because he cares for you, cannot leave you there.
00:52:54
Speaker
Oh, totally.
00:52:54
Speaker
With such kindness.
00:52:56
Speaker
pushing along and it's such a picture of love when someone does that for you.
00:53:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:05
Speaker
How important do you think having, you've mentioned the word serving a lot, how important do you think it is to have that servant's heart as you're navigating this, either as an actor who's creating or as a director trying to shape a performance or a teacher, or even thinking like a painter or a writer who's trying to hammer something out of nothing.
00:53:26
Speaker
Neither of those are from Jesus and Hammer, but I'll mix my metaphors.
00:53:29
Speaker
It's fine.
00:53:30
Speaker
How important do you think that is to... Well, I think, again, as we talk about how are we reflecting the Lord in his heart and how are we reflecting Christ who set aside his glory to come and to redeem us.
00:53:47
Speaker
He didn't do that for his own good, but it was a really beautiful thing.
00:53:56
Speaker
but really beautiful when you think of what that is.
00:54:00
Speaker
So anyway, some of that is just operating, if you will, like Christ.
00:54:08
Speaker
And it's like some of it, we don't mean to over spiritualize, some of it's just like,
00:54:15
Speaker
actor don't walk out of the light because you're not at the core you're not serving your audience by going and delivering this line in the dark right when they're confused because they can't see you or because they see it as a mistake and now they're distracted from the story because they
00:54:37
Speaker
or when the lights, you know, half through across your face.
00:54:40
Speaker
Unless it was some super artsy convention, and then that's what you're doing all the time.
00:54:43
Speaker
They're probably distracted then too.
00:54:47
Speaker
Some of them are, but again, if you establish this is how we are actually.
00:54:51
Speaker
Every character is lit, like, through two faces.
00:54:54
Speaker
Then you're like, this is just two faces everywhere.
00:54:57
Speaker
The universe is.
00:55:00
Speaker
Yeah, let's see if there was something else I was gonna say about that.
00:55:07
Speaker
I think it is real practical in theater because it is an interactive thing.
00:55:15
Speaker
Right.
00:55:16
Speaker
In all of the process, that's all good.
00:55:23
Speaker
But in the end, we're sharing the story with people who are seeing the story.
00:55:29
Speaker
Doing it in a way to serve them, and by serving, I don't
00:55:37
Speaker
entertain, but serve them in a way that they can enter into the story.
00:55:43
Speaker
They can hate the story if they want.
00:55:44
Speaker
They can love the story.
00:55:45
Speaker
They can think it was fun and funny.
00:55:47
Speaker
They can say, I'm never going to go watch that show again.
00:55:50
Speaker
Our responsibility is not to make them like it, but we can serve them by serving the story.
00:55:59
Speaker
And how we're going to serve the story is by us as the actor serving our character to bring that character to life.
00:56:12
Speaker
Or I would say then we have to die to self because there might be some things that are like, oh, this would get a laugh or this would be, I'm going to enjoy it.
00:56:22
Speaker
I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy it, but the point is not us enjoying it.
00:56:30
Speaker
And I would say in this,
00:56:40
Speaker
enters the building and how they get to their seat is a part of serving them, not just because we want them to be happy customers, which we do, but if they have a bad experience getting to their seat, it's gonna be really hard for them to enter into the story we're trying to share with them.
00:57:10
Speaker
It might be different things, like if somebody has a, a God has put on their heart to write a book or create a story, a book, or even just share something or to paint something or whatever.
00:57:28
Speaker
Like some of it is, and this is where we've gotta, we can often dissect too much.
00:57:37
Speaker
Like we,
00:57:39
Speaker
Are we doing this for our self gratification or are we doing this for others?
00:57:44
Speaker
Well, I think we can enjoy things without having to be only self-serving.
00:57:52
Speaker
And it doesn't have to be only about other people and I can't enjoy it.
00:58:01
Speaker
That's where it's like, I think of it as like, it's a win-win if you serve with it.
00:58:07
Speaker
I'm not a painter, so I can't exactly say what an artist's heart there would be to say, I want to serve with this.
00:58:18
Speaker
I'm sure there are a lot of people who have.
00:58:20
Speaker
They get a vision for, here's this series of works that are gonna help point to some truth.
00:58:34
Speaker
Well, all painters have been heathens.
00:58:37
Speaker
No, I think that's beautiful.
00:58:48
Speaker
phase of writing, that scene or that interaction or that great paragraph that you like is so artful that you love so much is most likely the thing that's dragging down your writing and that is causing a problem.
00:59:03
Speaker
And so like it's the number one piece of advice I hear in editing is just kill your darlings.
00:59:07
Speaker
The part of your book that you love the most
00:59:11
Speaker
maybe it's connecting with people, but a lot of times it may not be.
00:59:14
Speaker
And you need to be willing to cut the piece that you personally love for the good of the whole, which took me a really long time to like get around to.
00:59:24
Speaker
I don't think it was until I was working on
00:59:37
Speaker
because you can see the timeline there and you can see the preview there.
00:59:40
Speaker
I was like, what if I just delete this whole sequence?
00:59:43
Speaker
I just clicked on it, deleted it, compressed it, and then just watched the cut.
00:59:46
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, that's it.
00:59:48
Speaker
It's great without all this eight hours of work that I just put into this.
00:59:54
Speaker
But yeah, so dying to self there and saying, like, even though I think this thing is beautiful, it doesn't serve.
01:00:07
Speaker
You know, when you think of actors, you know, if we as actors are like, oh, this is going to be a great moment, boom, or whatever, and then again, kind of turn the focus on ourself.
01:00:20
Speaker
And it can be, again, probably more often unknown, unrealized, you know, that they're like always putting a pause dramatically right here.
01:00:30
Speaker
You know, it's like,
01:00:39
Speaker
But you're serving yourself with that one.
01:00:43
Speaker
I mean, I might not exactly know those words.
01:00:46
Speaker
Again, I'm not trying to over-spiritualize that.
01:00:49
Speaker
It might just be a tendency that they have, but they're comfortable with it.
01:00:53
Speaker
So I'm always kind of saying, if you're watching this, you can see I'm moving all the time.
01:00:59
Speaker
Well, if I'm playing a character who doesn't move, well, I've got to die to self.
01:01:03
Speaker
And I appreciate that you guys didn't
01:01:09
Speaker
No, it's a casual environment.
01:01:12
Speaker
Brad, be a statue.
01:01:14
Speaker
Think of Shea as a gargoyle.
01:01:16
Speaker
Do that.
01:01:20
Speaker
We're getting close to an hour, so I guess I should wrap it up here, but this has been wonderful.
01:01:25
Speaker
I could keep going.
01:01:26
Speaker
I'd love to have you on again sometime.
01:01:28
Speaker
But I'm curious, one of the questions I always ask at the end is for resources, because, you know,
01:01:36
Speaker
especially when I was like thinking about film, just finding different resources and books and things were so helpful to me.
01:01:42
Speaker
And so I wanna build that and have that available for others.
01:01:47
Speaker
So what are some resources for you either as a Christian in your walk or as an artist that have been particularly helpful that you would recommend?
01:01:56
Speaker
Yeah, there's a couple, as I think about that, there's a couple of things.
01:02:01
Speaker
One, I remember Addicted to Mediocrity by Frankie Schaefer.
01:02:09
Speaker
and kind of sort of addressing the, if you will, dumbing down of Christian art.
01:02:17
Speaker
So that was, I would encourage people to read that, let that be inspiring to, you know, high bar.
01:02:26
Speaker
And again, we need to be stewards of what God has given us.
01:02:31
Speaker
Like if I am, if he has not given me the opportunity or whatever to give
01:02:49
Speaker
Painting and people who hammer sculptures.
01:02:59
Speaker
I think of things on the whole, I think of having the freedom to, again, like I said, by God's grace, he allowed me to be able to trust him to take this step.
01:03:14
Speaker
So I think of that as freedom.
01:03:16
Speaker
Like I was not bound,
01:03:19
Speaker
by the truth that I needed to provide for my family.
01:03:22
Speaker
I mean, I wasn't like throwing it away, but I was trusting him so I had freedom.
01:03:28
Speaker
And so I think a lot about the freedom to take risks, to shoot high against
01:03:43
Speaker
And so I'm often trying to help my students learn how to be free, free to not serve themselves, even free to not protect themselves.
01:03:55
Speaker
And I don't mean that as an absolute statement and go put yourself in these situations, but the sense of like, I can make a choice right now and it can totally bond.
01:04:20
Speaker
not.
01:04:20
Speaker
Great, now we can move forward.
01:04:23
Speaker
You know, so just thinking of things like our being seated with Christ because we are redeemed by him gives us the freedom to go wherever he would have us
01:04:50
Speaker
you know, you can just apply that absolutely and say, I'm going to go do this risky thing.
01:04:54
Speaker
Trust God will save me from running across the highway.
01:04:58
Speaker
That's what Satan said for Jesus to do.
01:05:00
Speaker
Jump off the building.
01:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, right, right, right.
01:05:03
Speaker
So Sit, Walk, Stand was a devotional that actually one of my sons got for a graduation present.
01:05:10
Speaker
And that just was like a really great, I read through it.
01:05:15
Speaker
It's a short read, but just thinking about
01:05:19
Speaker
being at peace with God and his love for us and his completed work so that now we can go do things.
01:05:29
Speaker
We could go do the good work he's prepared beforehand for us to do.
01:05:34
Speaker
Where I'm sure lots of people and myself included, right?
01:05:36
Speaker
It's gonna be like, that's too scary or I don't know what I'm doing so I can't go do that.
01:05:46
Speaker
I guess I would say.
01:05:48
Speaker
we have somebody who does know and we can trust in him and we know he cares for us and loves us and is going to glorify himself through us.
01:06:00
Speaker
So if that's through our horrible failure, then may he be praised somehow in a way that I don't know how he can do that.
01:06:12
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:12
Speaker
I love that.
01:06:13
Speaker
Oh, that's beautiful.
01:06:14
Speaker
I feel like
01:06:19
Speaker
and like emphasize that is kind of this podcast and artist of the way in a way.
01:06:24
Speaker
Cause there was a, back in 2022, Shane, I met with you and Tanya and we were chatting with a bunch of people.
01:06:30
Speaker
Cause I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing in my life.
01:06:32
Speaker
And I feel like I need to cut something out and the thing I want to cut out is my job.
01:06:35
Speaker
Cause that seems to be the thing I've been specifically called to and I can't do that.
01:06:39
Speaker
And I was just processing all these things.
01:06:50
Speaker
I just had so many hangups about them on so many levels and like hangups about me being able to do them.
01:06:55
Speaker
And you just brought me back to that.
01:06:58
Speaker
You and one other friend of mine who was just like, remember that there's freedom in Christ and that he's giving you so much more and just thinking about that you're only here by the grace of God.
01:07:12
Speaker
And I like in the wake of that, like when like really studied through Roman
01:07:20
Speaker
has really redeemed me and just the insane freedom that we don't live according to the flesh anymore.
01:07:29
Speaker
We don't have to hold on to that burden, but we live by the Spirit.
01:07:33
Speaker
We live to the Spirit now.
01:07:35
Speaker
We've been resurrected.
01:07:36
Speaker
We've been baptized.
01:07:37
Speaker
We died and came back with Christ.
01:07:40
Speaker
And now we're, like you said, seated with him.
01:07:43
Speaker
Like just the insane freedom to say, oh, cool, then
01:07:47
Speaker
God's really got everything.
01:07:50
Speaker
There's nothing that I can't trust Him with, even when that's scary.
01:07:56
Speaker
And for me, that was like personal failure of not necessarily like doing a creative thing and that being a risk, but like on a personal level, like if I step into this sort of world and that's what I'm making my life, can I still be a good Christian and a good husband and a good father eventually and all of that?
01:08:16
Speaker
and just the reminder of the freedom that we have in Christ is just, is probably the reason that this is happening and anything with artists is the way, but I just, A, thank you.
01:08:28
Speaker
That's been, that was very shaping, but B, to like emphasize that, like there is so much beauty and freedom and joy to be found when you just trust God, which is not to say that then he'll,
01:08:41
Speaker
You're like, cool, you're not gonna sit again, because I definitely have in the last three years.
01:08:45
Speaker
That was a couple years ago.
01:08:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:48
Speaker
I need to do it again.
01:08:50
Speaker
Stay home.
01:08:54
Speaker
but just it's beautiful yeah so i i totally agree and it's cool to hear that emotional where that was sort of the scene for you too so sweet well thank you so much this has been a lovely conversation i've enjoyed it so much it's been great happy on thank you glad to be here