Transcript
Speaker: Hey friends, I just wanted to jump in here real quick and let you know that around the 45 minute mark, we did have a glitch with our audio in this episode.
Speaker: So you're going to see it switch to our backup audio.
Speaker: Well...
Speaker: gonna hear it switch to our backup audio you will not see a difference if you're watching it if you're not watching it then hopefully you'll only see the road um but we did have to switch to our backup audio about 15 20 minutes of that so the quality is a little bit worse but i i highly recommend sticking around listening to the rest of it this is a wonderful conversation with brad garnett who's a a great friend from uh homeschool performing arts you'll hear a little bit more about him in a in a moment but
Speaker: It's just such a wonderful, worthwhile conversation.
Speaker: So many rich insights that I can't wait to share with you guys.
Speaker: So stick around because it is absolutely worth it.
Speaker: Hey, everybody.
Speaker: Welcome back to Artists of the Way.
Speaker: I'm John.
Speaker: I'm Dave.
Speaker: And we are the hosts of the podcast.
Speaker: And today we have a guest who I've been trying to get on for a long time, a good friend and I would say a mentor of mine, Brad Garnoff, who is the executive director of Homeschool Performing Arts.
Speaker: This was a real treat.
Speaker: Initially, we were talking about having him on because he is a part of our leadership team for the conference, the committee that's put it all together and helped design it.
Speaker: Cultivate.
Speaker: Cultivate.
Speaker: 2025.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's like, come on, John, use the name.
Speaker: We worked on that name.
Speaker: Yes, we didn't really end up talking about the conference a whole lot, but we talked a lot about his story.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: It's not a whole lot.
Speaker: But no, we talked a lot about Brad's story and just a lot of really great insights from his life and his work.
Speaker: I think it was a really great conversation.
Speaker: It was a beautiful conversation.
Speaker: At the conference, he's going to be teaching singing, correct?
Speaker: Yes, he's doing a workshop on an introduction to vocal technique for people who feel anxious about their voice or feel like maybe they can't sing.
Speaker: He's definitely been helpful for me in that and a lot of people.
Speaker: He's also going to be part of a panel that's doing like a masterclass workshop.
Speaker: So we're going to have a couple of attendees that will be selected to perform a piece, a monologue or a song in front of this panel.
Speaker: And then this panel will give them direction so people can watch the performer and learn from the feedback that they get for themselves as performers or they can watch and observe how do these three people direct this actor?
Speaker: How do they give direction?
Speaker: Because that's something that's really hard to learn if you're trying to learn how to direct is what is giving direction, how do you do that?
Speaker: So we're hoping that that'll give a good opportunity for people to be able to glean some insights from that.
Speaker: That'll be great.
Speaker: The conference in general is going to be so cool.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: The lineup is awesome.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think everybody on the leaderships.
Speaker: leadership team is their DNA, I think has seeped into it.
Speaker: Well, I think they've, they've really brought a lot of passion to it.
Speaker: Um, it's really been a communal thing to put together.
Speaker: So if you want to maybe learn from Brad, see Brad at the conference, he'll definitely be there along with a lot of really great, uh, leaders in this,
Speaker: Christian theater world.
Speaker: So it's wonderful.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's a one day conference, but it is so full of stuff.
Speaker: You have kind of three different focuses that are going on at the same time, right?
Speaker: There is the performer focus, the director focus and faith focus.
Speaker: And yeah,
Speaker: And people can bounce around to which ones look interesting to them.
Speaker: But check out the website, artistoftheway.com, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: You got it.
Speaker: Good job.
Speaker: And it's a full, interesting schedule.
Speaker: Yeah, and a lot of great instructors.
Speaker: I say it all the time, but I'm pinching myself that we've put this together.
Speaker: It's great.
Speaker: It's got welts.
Speaker: Yes, I do.
Speaker: It's painful.
Speaker: It hurts.
Speaker: But yes, without further ado, we're excited to share with you this conversation with Brad Gardner.
Speaker: Well, thank you for coming onto the podcast.
Speaker: I think you've been a guest that I've like had in my brain to have on since I started.
Speaker: So it's been like over two years now that I wanted to have you on.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I'm very excited to get to have this conversation.
Speaker: And I think there's some things here I haven't picked your brain about before or heard your story about before.
Speaker: So I'm excited to hear some of those.
Speaker: See if you're shocked or not.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: And Nate's here.
Speaker: Hi.
Speaker: You already said hi to the audience.
Speaker: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: Even though you've already everything's breaking down.
Speaker: Thanks for having me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So first I was wondering if you could just share a little bit with us and with any of the audience who may not know you, just what some of your story as an artist, as a Christian, how did you kind of get to this point?
Speaker: Sort of the
Speaker: I don't know, Cliff Notes version.
Speaker: Cliff Notes version.
Speaker: Okay, yeah, we'll try to keep it short.
Speaker: You could go longer.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: This could be the entire podcast.
Speaker: All right, that would be fun.
Speaker: There might be some overlapping things.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Things we talk about later.
Speaker: I'm sure that always happens.
Speaker: But as an artist, I think generally speaking, I'm thankful for my heritage.
Speaker: My parents were musicians, our musicians.
Speaker: And so as I...
Speaker: Some of my youngest memories would be going with they would perform at churches, you know, they have a Sunday evening service and, you know, my mom plays piano and her and my dad would sing.
Speaker: And so I guess I would say I grew up singing and my first solo I can remember 14 in a church on a Sunday night.
Speaker: There was probably, you know, 44 people there or something.
Speaker: It's a little country church.
Speaker: um uh we will glorify the king of kings okay that's a good thing to say yeah yeah that was good nice and very theologically sound right right so that's uh you know so i grew up singing and uh was in choirs then in school and and uh love that uh my senior year of high school i had a friend talk me from choir talked me into trying out for the musical at school uh they had just finished a a new
Speaker: auditorium building project and all of that the prior year.
Speaker: And so
Speaker: I was like, okay, and because I was a guy and because I could sing.
Speaker: And for some reason they put me on the show.
Speaker: And I did find that like that was a really great growing experience.
Speaker: And I kind of decided to set aside my other priorities, which were basketball.
Speaker: Oh man.
Speaker: And we got another one.
Speaker: You could have gone so far.
Speaker: Actually, that was part of my thinking is like, okay, I know there is a ceiling that is not far away from me in basketball.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I did not try out for the team, even though I had worked really hard over the summer to try and pick up some playing time and all that.
Speaker: But then was cast in the show in the winter musical that they did.
Speaker: And so what school did you go to?
Speaker: Caledonia High School.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's where I graduated from.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So we did Andy Get Your Gun.
Speaker: I played Frank Butler and was
Speaker: It just was something that I see God's steering me in this direction and also growing me in that experience.
Speaker: And yeah, I'm very grateful for that.
Speaker: I kind of lost where was the end of this going?
Speaker: Today, so we have a few more years to go.
Speaker: It is interesting the different kinds of ways theater can push you versus sports.
Speaker: Did you find like sports came easy to you or is that something you had to push yourself in and then theater pushed you in a different way?
Speaker: I had to push myself in sports.
Speaker: I mean, part of it was sort of unorthodox in the sense of I played baseball growing all, you know, all growing up.
Speaker: And that was, you know, if I, my dream was, you know, to be a shortstop for the Detroit Tigers, like Alan Tremel.
Speaker: But, but then when I was homeschooled from fifth to ninth grade, and so when I got
Speaker: done with eighth grade there was nowhere to play because back in those days you know there weren't travel links and all that at least yeah I wasn't nobody recruited me for those at least I don't know they didn't tell me that they were so then I then I switched to basketball because you could do that by yourself or so I was I was late I was late to that yeah
Speaker: But, and I also kind of consider myself a late bloomer, like because then after I didn't play basketball, I played a lot of basketball.
Speaker: And now I guess I would say I'm confident when I'm playing basketball.
Speaker: So I don't discredit sports or I don't, I appreciate them.
Speaker: I love to watch them, love to play them, everything.
Speaker: from volleyball to ping pong to you know whatever I love it all and I like to learn about them so of course you know pickleball I'm now into pickleball because that's yeah new and fun and it's good yeah okay good I think you're shaking your head no I was last night but didn't work out but we're gonna do it soon it's a very nice just pick it up and do it game right and then you can also
Speaker: make it a more intense, if that's your vibe, which it is for me.
Speaker: I mean, I like the casual play and all that, but I do like the intensity and the like, I'm trying as hard as I can and diving for balls.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: That's what's wonderful about sports.
Speaker: You just try as hard as you can and get that intensity out in ways that I think it's hard to in other parts of life.
Speaker: Although I would sort of relate that to things in theater.
Speaker: You know, when you're talking about, I guess I would apply the same intensity to when I am watching, you know, choreography and I'm like, no, you all have to hit the beat at the same time.
Speaker: It doesn't work if you don't.
Speaker: And so that drive or...
Speaker: Sort of the all outness of it.
Speaker: You're going to sell out.
Speaker: You're going to be.
Speaker: Yeah, you got to sell out.
Speaker: So yeah, I like those things where you can dive around and, you know, be aggressive and beat somebody.
Speaker: It's like a little microcosm of life that like you get to this small space really push yourself and strive for excellence.
Speaker: and have failure and then recover from it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It's a safe place to have failure to try something and work up those muscles.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It's an important thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Thank you for allowing me to talk sports with someone on this podcast.
Speaker: I feel so soothed.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: No, I think there's a lot of similarities in like what you guys are saying though and aren't like you were saying.
Speaker: I think of
Speaker: Theater especially, it's different muscles, but you're working those muscles.
Speaker: You have to chase it as intensely.
Speaker: It's different muscles.
Speaker: But for you to really give something that actually is of substance, you've got to really put in work.
Speaker: You've got to be, I think, as dedicated.
Speaker: It's a different...
Speaker: part of your brain and different muscles in your body, a different type of discipline.
Speaker: But you do have to give it that all as well and go through whatever microcosm you're going through in rehearsals and in the performance.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I see similarities in the beauty of it, like the structure and the logic and the flow.
Speaker: Because you've got these sort of guide rails that you can play between that you have some freedom to explore within.
Speaker: But you also can't go outside of those.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: There's rules, there's things that you have to be consistent with, which is why people roll their eyes at the NBA and traveling calls.
Speaker: It's like, is it a rule or is it not a rule?
Speaker: And so actually I would say that's a thing that in the telling of story that I think is an important piece.
Speaker: Generally, you can't just be mixing conventions like, okay, we're gonna mime all of Act 1, but now in Act 2, we're gonna have props all over the place.
Speaker: Well, that doesn't seem logical.
Speaker: It's not fair to the audience to expect them to suspend their disbelief on this, but then like,
Speaker: totally, you know, throw them a curveball.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: It's like neither of those things should you be doing completely for yourself and just what feels good to you.
Speaker: Like if you're playing basketball and suddenly you're just doing ballet during the third quarter.
Speaker: It's like, what is happening here?
Speaker: This is not what this is.
Speaker: Do what it is.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: But it would really confuse the other players.
Speaker: You know, I actually kind of would do something.
Speaker: I had theater in my bones before I had an outlet for it.
Speaker: What was it that eventually led you to pursue theater and theater education as a career instead of just kind of the thing you were doing in high school?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: That's probably part two of the story here.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Is that when I was in high school,
Speaker: I was like, oh, being on stage is great, once I discovered it, right?
Speaker: And I'm like, man.
Speaker: And I remember my high school director talking about when she performed and all that.
Speaker: I'm like, why did you ever stop performing?
Speaker: Why would you not want to be the performer?
Speaker: Again, my naivety and youthfulness, youthful exuberance maybe.
Speaker: I give myself some credit there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I had, again, by God's grace and his working, I had an opportunity where somebody from my church who led a co-op asked me to direct just like a small thing for their co-op.
Speaker: And and that was my first taste of like teaching and coaching and and then also the like art and like, oh, oh, I get to have a hand in the whole thing, not just my thing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: As an actor.
Speaker: And so that.
Speaker: That really, I would say, opened my mind and I would say opened a passion for something, for working with people, for crafting the whole, again, very infantile in its stage, but
Speaker: But again, a piece of what God used to steer my life path.
Speaker: Because I look back at that.
Speaker: I don't know why they asked me to do it.
Speaker: I kind of think I was the only one they knew who did any theater.
Speaker: That's kind of my guess.
Speaker: Although, just to testify to God's sovereignty and working, I did just a couple of years ago at the funeral of the lady who had asked me to.
Speaker: There was somebody else, um,
Speaker: who said, I remember meeting with her and praying with her for like, God, who would you have for doing this tiny little production in this tiny co-op thing.
Speaker: And so that was, I mean, I didn't know that.
Speaker: I mean, I guess I could assume they were seeking God's guidance, but I hadn't specifically heard it or talked to them, either one of them in 20 years or something, 25 years.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: So thinking of that again, a stone in the brook that steered me a different direction.
Speaker: Those prayers changed your life.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Even though they didn't know they were directly praying for me.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah, so then kind of fast forward, I guess, to I was in school for a couple of years, still kind of thinking performancey.
Speaker: And then I was out of school for several years and working and got married, had a couple of kids.
Speaker: And by a few years after that, I just really felt about leading me to, I was,
Speaker: into teaching so I went back to school to get my music ed degree to sort of kind of finish the other half.
Speaker: When did you go to school for the first time?
Speaker: It was vocal performance to begin with.
Speaker: I did switch to education because somewhere between the start of school and you know a couple years in I did meet a girl who then became my wife and I was like I would like to get married someday and so
Speaker: At least in my situation.
Speaker: Kind of like basketball.
Speaker: It was not going to be the way to support.
Speaker: Although I did get to coach basketball, which was another piece of learning about how I liked working with people.
Speaker: Who did you coach?
Speaker: Oh, way back, the Southeast Cougars.
Speaker: The Southeast Cougars.
Speaker: I played for the Hudsonville.
Speaker: I coached for the Hudsonville Hornets.
Speaker: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Now this would have been the early version of it, you know, because that goes back a good long ways.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yeah, the Southeast Cougars.
Speaker: Blue.
Speaker: So then I guess what's the next fast forward would be
Speaker: how I got, and this would also kind of explain how HPA started, but when I went back to school, they had implemented a requirement for graduating was to, you had to have an internship.
Speaker: Well, I was married, I had two kids, I was working basically a full-time job in a three-quarter to half amount of hours, and again, God's providence there, where
Speaker: they allowed me to work after hours it was customer service so it didn't really make sense yeah it wasn't helpful to them I mean I had a lot of you know work you know paperwork and writing all that sort of thing but so basically for my internship I made up
Speaker: a situation where I would do for a co-op, like for a co-op, I did a choir class and I did a drama class and I would do a junior high, high school class for choir and an elementary choir and a junior high school drama and a junior high school choir.
Speaker: And so I presented this to my
Speaker: supervising professor and she agreed to be the supervisor for my internship.
Speaker: So again, as I look back, I got to praise God for, you know, even if even putting her within, I guess, creative minds and
Speaker: open to non-conventional, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so, so I, you know, I charged a small tuition and did it and built that like that's, that was that.
Speaker: And, and so I went ahead and did it the next semester.
Speaker: It was met a need and it was, I enjoyed it.
Speaker: And so it kind of grew from there.
Speaker: I added another location and, um,
Speaker: Yeah, that was kind of the early life of that.
Speaker: I guess to fast forward, when I was finishing school and I did my student teaching, was in a really fantastic situation at Jenison Public High School under some really great men who had great music programs and learned a lot from Les Rousey.
Speaker: So I said I'd frame all that to say I did not have a poor experience with dead and led me somewhere else.
Speaker: I had a really public school
Speaker: I had a really good experience and I loved what they were doing.
Speaker: But as I was coming to the end of my student teaching, I really sensed God leading me to do this, take this path rather than what was my plan, which was teaching choir in school.
Speaker: And so then...
Speaker: yeah go ahead what was that like was that a scary move to embrace that instead of the structure of a public school choir job providing for a family with this thing that you're just starting by yourself uh okay that is a fantastic question because I do think it's a big part of the testimony the prior year uh meaning uh in
Speaker: that year leading up to that point we in Sunday school we were doing experiencing God and we were studying the names of God and I look back again and say this was God's grace he taught me in that in our study of that about him as Jehovah Jireh the Lord will provide w hen he provided the ram for sacrifice
Speaker: And that when I sensed him leading me this, then I said, okay, you're going to have to be Jehovah Jireh because I don't.
Speaker: I had two kids.
Speaker: It was not going to be lucrative.
Speaker: And well, there wasn't even anything to say there was going to be anything.
Speaker: No lucre at all.
Speaker: So that was something that I feel like he prepared me to obey him by giving me that lesson and knowing him better that way.
Speaker: Now I can say, as I look back, I was very narrow-minded in my like, you got to provide money because I need to be responsible and care for my family and all that.
Speaker: So I need to provide money.
Speaker: As I look at all of the ways he's provided, there's so many layers.
Speaker: It's so much more when I think of like, even like locations to perform and I think of like scripts, right?
Speaker: Because I mean, I wouldn't say there's just an unlimited amount of good scripts.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Especially in the particular context of high school theater and high school Christian theater.
Speaker: than very large cast high school theater now.
Speaker: Yeah, that's limiting.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So there's things that are very, again, he's not limited by conventional.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And our, if you will, how we even got into where it is that we normally perform now was just...
Speaker: Again, his working out and working through people, things that I couldn't have done.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so I'm very.
Speaker: Thankful for that.
Speaker: So yeah, that was a big piece of it.
Speaker: And so, yeah, it's just, I think of it kind of like the scripture that's like talking about, you know, these things are to show the manifold wisdom.
Speaker: And I think of manifold at many layers and the interweaving of tapestry.
Speaker: So now when I think of Jehovah Jireh,
Speaker: Like, yes, it is providing for redemption and yes, it is providing, you know, for our needs.
Speaker: And but it's like but it's like grace and his gifts are it's like so many layers of that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So cool.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: That's, yeah, good.
Speaker: I appreciate that question because that was, again, an important pillar in the book, if you will, of steering.
Speaker: I feel like that can be just a challenging thing to trust sometimes, especially if you're like really trying to be like, trying to be a good Orthodox Christian that has like a really good view of what salvation is about and what God is about.
Speaker: Like, I feel like there's a strong hesitancy to be like,
Speaker: God's going to give me so much more, you know, like he'll give me what I need.
Speaker: And it's probably going to be hard because he wants to refine me.
Speaker: And, you know, it's all going to be this challenge that I'm really only going to make it through with him, like dragging me by a leash.
Speaker: But at least I'll have been dragged up there, you know.
Speaker: I think it's hard for, at least it is for me, maybe I'm just projecting my issues on the world.
Speaker: I think it's hard a lot of times to be like, no, he'll give us more than we can ask or imagine.
Speaker: And that doesn't just mean salvation, though it does.
Speaker: Which can be hard to square with like, well, there's also suffering and lack in the world.
Speaker: But he does say, I want to give you an abundant life.
Speaker: I want to give you more than you can ask or imagine.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So that it's amazing to get to see a testimony of that.
Speaker: And, you know, I echo a lot of what you're saying where I'm like, yeah, all these anything that I have, I feel like I can see how that's come from God.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Just from that.
Speaker: And it was not me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it is, I feel like even after seeing that, it's still scary.
Speaker: I'm like, okay, but are you going to do it this time?
Speaker: Or am I just assuming you are and I'm going to go for this crazy thing?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's cool to see that testimony of it.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I want to.
Speaker: I'm just gonna go slow, audience.
Speaker: Just take a breather.
Speaker: Digest that.
Speaker: Digest that.
Speaker: Nate, help them digest that while I look.
Speaker: So you gotta chew it first.
Speaker: People don't always remember.
Speaker: This is Nate's favorite thing is when I ask him to stall for me, because I need to go get a book from the other room.
Speaker: The first part of digestion is your teeth.
Speaker: Is it?
Speaker: Yeah, we could just talk about it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That would be because then you're breaking it down.
Speaker: Because then you're breaking it down, preparing it for the stomach.
Speaker: Have you found your question yet?
Speaker: No, I got invested in this digestion conversation.
Speaker: Oh, I didn't.
Speaker: I haven't even asked one of my regular questions that I always ask.
Speaker: I know they're like, come on, John.
Speaker: I just got into the conversation.
Speaker: It was great.
Speaker: I'll ask you the two questions I always ask everybody.
Speaker: I haven't done that yet.
Speaker: One, I'm wondering,
Speaker: What things are you working on right now, first of all?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And can I answer right now with what I just got done with and then what's coming up?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That'll be fine.
Speaker: Literally, what am I doing?
Speaker: Well, I just say this summer I was part of the story production as an actor.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: What did you play in that?
Speaker: Well, because it is a wide variety of things.
Speaker: But I did Abraham and Job and Bad Guy Pharisee and stuff like that.
Speaker: Pharisee number five.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Along with, obviously, the ensemble is sharing the scripture.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it's an artful compiling of scripture around.
Speaker: the story book that was, I don't know, 10 or 15 years ago or something.
Speaker: Was it something like-
Speaker: Yeah, I think it was like 2012 or something.
Speaker: Was it?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I was going to be in that and then COVID shut down.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: Part of that performance.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But I've been through the rehearsals of that show.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: That was a painful time for sure.
Speaker: Indeed.
Speaker: But yeah, that was good to do.
Speaker: It's always good to shake some rust off and
Speaker: Get back in there and like, okay, if I'm yelling this to my students all the time, am I doing it?
Speaker: Am I doing what I would yell at them?
Speaker: So that was good.
Speaker: Anyway, that just was the end of July.
Speaker: But now we have just started the process of this season for Homeschool Performing Arts.
Speaker: So we have...
Speaker: We have Coming Up in Grand Rapids.
Speaker: We have Honk the Musical, which is a really great story and really creative telling.
Speaker: It's not all kiddie, which the title can sometimes lead people to believe.
Speaker: It's good and deep and good music and fun story.
Speaker: I just saw it for the first time when Midway did it.
Speaker: It was really fun.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yep, I think it's smart and there's lots of good things to dig into for the story.
Speaker: And then Kalamazoo, our group in Kalamazoo is doing the Clockmaker's Daughter.
Speaker: What is that about?
Speaker: Because I've never heard of that.
Speaker: It's about the Clockmaker's Daughter.
Speaker: Oh, okay, thank you, Nick.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay, cool.
Speaker: We can move on then.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: The first thing that she learns is how to chew her food.
Speaker: Yeah, well you want a short synopsis.
Speaker: I like the premise.
Speaker: Yeah, it's well, okay, let's go premise.
Speaker: Yeah, because it's about a guy it's set in you know sort of sort of medieval-ish But there's a clockmaker and but he loses his daughter and
Speaker: He is working on creating a replacement daughter.
Speaker: Oh, interesting.
Speaker: You probably ought not do that, I'm guessing.
Speaker: yeah you know yeah so it's it's a it's really great it's it's new I don't know if it's been done in Michigan before yeah it's a really sweet the music is fantastic it's it's it's a deep I guess would say you know you you have to contemplate and wrestle with some things and isn't necessarily all rosy but
Speaker: But really well constructed, really smartly written.
Speaker: Like a clock.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: The author is like, I'm going to write this about me.
Speaker: I'm a clock maker.
Speaker: Because I'm so intricate with my plot.
Speaker: Good job, me.
Speaker: Yeah, it's good, though.
Speaker: And then Lansing closes our season in April with Annie.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Which is lots of fun.
Speaker: As I think back of God's providing scripts, I do remember...
Speaker: The first time that I directed Annie being like, I really am not interested in directing and I don't really love it.
Speaker: But once I did it, I really fell in love with the story.
Speaker: I think, again, there's lots of good meaty stuff in there to wrestle with.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If you can just keep your young lady from not screaming everything, then it can actually be pleasant.
Speaker: Wow, yes.
Speaker: It's an accomplishment.
Speaker: It can be done.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So anyway, that is the season.
Speaker: We have an unconventional rehearsal schedule in that we rehearse once a week through starting in the fall.
Speaker: And then we kind of have a two and a half week blitz at the end where we move into the theater.
Speaker: and put it all together and then open the show and close it strike and get out of there.
Speaker: And so it's anyway, so that that is what I'm doing.
Speaker: But that is over the whole year.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Well, and I guess one other thing I'll just throw out is we as a staff are going to be doing When Calls the Heart.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Which this is going to tie some circles and I'll share this with our audience or whatever along the way.
Speaker: But
Speaker: One of my professors at Cornerstone is well, two professors at Cornerstone wrote it.
Speaker: So one wrote the music and one wrote the book for it.
Speaker: But my
Speaker: The lady, Dr. Galloway, who wrote the music for it was the one who was my supervising professor who approved and oversaw my internship.
Speaker: Again, so one of these full circle moments.
Speaker: So that's super exciting to me.
Speaker: And I was also in the premiere when it premiered at Cornerstone.
Speaker: I thought so, because Master Art said that several years ago and my little brother was in it.
Speaker: And I think he showed who was in the original cast.
Speaker: Yeah, there's a picture in the front of the script and all.
Speaker: You're right.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: So this is our 25th season of main stage productions.
Speaker: So that is part of a celebration.
Speaker: I mean, you could call it a celebration.
Speaker: a celebrating, a thanks, kind of a customer appreciation, if you will.
Speaker: Some of it is like hopefully a gift to our students, you know, that they can see us again as we it'll be after this season, you know, in the summer.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: Where are you going to do that one?
Speaker: That is in the works still, but probably around Grand Rapids is where we'll actually perform, which is the most center, if you will, of all of our families and stuff.
Speaker: Cool, neat.
Speaker: So the other question, I feel like I'm like, how long are we?
Speaker: We're a ways in.
Speaker: We're like half an hour in.
Speaker: This is probably the longest I've gone without asking the second question.
Speaker: I'm just flabbergasted at myself.
Speaker: But what are ways for you, either as an artist creating or as somebody taking in art that you feel like God is using art in your life right now?
Speaker: I think having just done the story there was lots of consumption and memorization of Scripture and considering those so that was an artful again presentation or construction yeah that you know hopefully you know some of that is it gets in here and I mean as we hope for the audience too but
Speaker: But even thinking of the return void.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I think I guess we can go big and philosophical or something.
Speaker: I think all like there's just so many ways in which we can
Speaker: be caused to consider and see how do things like what did what did God how does this reflect God as a creative person or as a being or a loving father or you know somebody who is you know coaching and prodding us or
Speaker: Or even just like or him as a as a logical creative creator like the construction of things and so if I mean you you can you can try and get away from structure, but then you can't ever really get away from structure because we live in a structure We are a structure.
Speaker: It may be feel chaotic, right?
Speaker: Right, but
Speaker: not to him.
Speaker: And so, you know, if you think of music and I like all sorts of music, you know, from opera to heavy metal.
Speaker: And so like they each have their own, if you will, construction.
Speaker: It's basically the same thing.
Speaker: Opera, heavy metal.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: They're really going for it.
Speaker: I mean, they do have some of the most extra costumes in stage performance.
Speaker: Yeah, I feel like that circle kind of, it's like the horseshoe theory of the opera in heaven.
Speaker: Small steps, yeah.
Speaker: But even when you think about things like jazz or whatever that are like...
Speaker: you know, complex and maybe free flowing, but still free flowing within some sort of structure.
Speaker: You're in a key.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Even if you're meandering, there is at least somewhere you started and you go somewhere.
Speaker: So I think I just think there are opportunities.
Speaker: to see things about the goodness of God or just about his beauty.
Speaker: I think there's things that can compel us to think and consider things.
Speaker: So if you think of an interstellar, you can appreciate so many layers.
Speaker: You can think the music is so rich and meaningful to the telling of the story and just also
Speaker: Really beautiful by itself, right?
Speaker: You know, I'm so like you can stand alone, but it's it's not there to stand alone.
Speaker: It's there to serve the storytelling but but if you think of Again, just if you think of like how things get saved if you will or if you think about even contemplating
Speaker: a god who is not stuck in time like we are yeah you know now you're now you're like they might put words on it in the in the film or in the character or in the story right but but that causes you to think about a god who is
Speaker: who isn't an author and he is not confined to time.
Speaker: And so it isn't, then is less bizarre to think about, you know, this here and this here where we see it linearly.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: He is not stuck in the linear.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Anyway, so I guess those are just some little examples.
Speaker: Some of the things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's kind of like you had a thought.
Speaker: I was waiting for you to say something.
Speaker: No, I was ready for you to.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Get the next question.
Speaker: Yeah, man.
Speaker: Well, yeah, I'm curious about several things and they're all right here.
Speaker: I just.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He keeps his curiosity down here.
Speaker: I do.
Speaker: All my thoughts are right here.
Speaker: Very structured.
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So one of the things I was curious about, because this is definitely.
Speaker: a core theme that I see just generally in Christian theater and I definitely have seen with you and when I was doing HPA was the concept of we're creating to God's glory.
Speaker: We're trying to do this for the glory of God ultimately.
Speaker: Even if we're doing a Mary Poppins or an Annie or a Honk or Wind Calls the Heart, you know, we still want to do this to the glory of God.
Speaker: What do you think
Speaker: for you, what does that mean to create to the glory of God?
Speaker: And then what does that look like in the context of theater and of what you do in theater?
Speaker: Yeah, that is going to be
Speaker: Not a simple thing, right?
Speaker: Because I think like when I, you know, I'm visual and so I see things in like I'm compartmentalized.
Speaker: So I see things in like pieces or layers.
Speaker: And so like I'll talk about things on a plane, right?
Speaker: So if I take the plane of, you know, doing it as unto the Lord, doing it to the glory of God, like
Speaker: So if I go content, okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, I think there is some content that, and it doesn't have to be, you know, evangelistic.
Speaker: It doesn't have to be the story, which is scripture.
Speaker: Like it can be something that's a tragedy or whatever.
Speaker: Like, but, but I do think.
Speaker: content has to be considered and it and there either either has to be I guess what's he serving a purpose and so but again that that can be a wide range of things and I think I think there's you know when we talk about walking through the valley of the shadow of death okay well there's there's
Speaker: stories that are going to reflect that or tell that or share that and we don't have to run away from them just because they're uncomfortable or they have a sad ending or whatever.
Speaker: So, but I do think
Speaker: There are also content that you would say, okay, this is anti anything that God has built.
Speaker: And so it's kind of hard to say that I'm going to do that content as unto the Lord or unto God's glory.
Speaker: I realize there's Christian liberty there for people to you know because there's people who I'm sure there's people would look at what we do and say how can you be doing that you're saying it's under the Lord right right any it's crying this pagan crap and redheads they're witches man that's your main character what are you doing on that layer I mean so so that's that's one
Speaker: point on a plane.
Speaker: But I think there's a big pool on that plane.
Speaker: It's not unlimited, but there's lots of range of things.
Speaker: So then if you go to like, how do we do
Speaker: the craft.
Speaker: Again, like I was saying before, you can't be disrespectful to the audience and say, okay, we're not going to use any props.
Speaker: We're just going to mime them all.
Speaker: And now all of a sudden we're going to throw in a whole bunch of props.
Speaker: Like how we do it, and if you will, learning the craft and executing the craft and being committed to it.
Speaker: And again, we're not going to reach perfection.
Speaker: but doing it with the goal of doing it to the best of our ability by God's grace and what he's given us and the opportunity that he's given us.
Speaker: And then if you go to the layer of even just like the organization, I'm thankful that God has brought many people to HPA who their gifting was organization and structure.
Speaker: And so it has been built over the years
Speaker: by some great people with great giftings.
Speaker: And I would say, artists and theater companies don't tend to generally have a reputation of being well organized because it's usually a bunch of artists getting together.
Speaker: No finger pointing.
Speaker: No finger pointing.
Speaker: I can be organized.
Speaker: Look at that bookshelf.
Speaker: No, actually, that's not the organized bookshelf.
Speaker: Never mind.
Speaker: Don't look at that bookshelf.
Speaker: Or the desk.
Speaker: Look at the bookshelf out there.
Speaker: I've disavowed in a couple of these organizations.
Speaker: But it's your room, so you don't have to, like, you know, it's not.
Speaker: It's organized in my mind.
Speaker: You do a great job, buddy.
Speaker: Thanks.
Speaker: But that but even that sense of like okay if we're gonna say the schedule is from here to here And so we are asking you to commit to it then we need to be true to our work Yeah, and saying okay, we're not gonna expect you to say 10 hours longer.
Speaker: Yeah, right like somebody had to make plans I mean when I think of the in the investment of the family for their child to participate in what we're doing like I know it's that I
Speaker: Most of the kids are not driving themselves there and they're, you know, they're not doing this in a vacuum.
Speaker: It's parents who are committing and making.
Speaker: So anyway, so trying to be well thought through so that we're not just flippant, if you will, with, you know, schedules.
Speaker: So I think of even that as doing something that's done to the Lord and serving the people who are participating.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then so anyway, I think you could take a million different layers.
Speaker: We have opportunity to pour into
Speaker: the students, right?
Speaker: And so, you know, I'll take an opportunity where I see, okay, here's something we're wrestling with, with a character and just like time out a second, like think about this in real life, right?
Speaker: When are we tempted to make that terrible choice or when are we...
Speaker: Yeah, anyway, without being judgmental to the story or the character, we can still evaluate it and consider it and think about, okay, what do I need to do either so I don't put myself in that situation or so that I can make a choice that honors you.
Speaker: And so there's lots of anecdotal opportunities.
Speaker: you know, of being able to talk through that and pull it back into real life because
Speaker: I guess would say there's when are they going to get that opportunity to hear that to cause them to consider, you know, what's the choices you're making that might relate to this?
Speaker: You know, is there just like coasting along in their life or whatever?
Speaker: I think of.
Speaker: I think a lot of perspective, right?
Speaker: Like the older I get, hopefully there's some more perspective I can get.
Speaker: But part of it is seeing and calling them to that.
Speaker: And if I can just time out and say that was something that Chris McDonald did for me when I was in Pirates of Penzance back, whatever that was, 20-something years ago.
Speaker: I had instincts, but I didn't have any formal training in drama.
Speaker: I just remember her asking me questions about who was my character.
Speaker: Tech week or I mean a show week like you know a night or two before opening night and I remember just like Rocking my world be like holy cow I never even thought about I just tried to like entertain you know like sing well and like do this well and Had had had really no clue because nobody had ever really right caused me to think about that and so again that's one of those Brooks in the in the water and then in sorry stones in the brook that
Speaker: Steered me very much affected the trajectory of my directing style and so cool how to How to help the kids learn how to do the craft that that I'm very thankful for that.
Speaker: Yeah, I wasn't that day, but I definitely was after that.
Speaker: Yeah
Speaker: see the fruit of that as I see you know how much if I hadn't had that like fine we might be doing nice stuff or whatever but having that then then I see the fruit in my actors all the time of like okay they're there they they have built the character and know their motivations and their goals and all of that sort of thing so that now
Speaker: They can make a choice in a moment of the story.
Speaker: I'm saying them as an actor can make a choice.
Speaker: And it's rich.
Speaker: It's deep.
Speaker: It's believable.
Speaker: So now we're serving the audience.
Speaker: by giving them something that they can sink their teeth into.
Speaker: Again, believe.
Speaker: And again, to that ripple effect, I know how you directed impacted a lot of John when he was under your directorship along with Chris directing you as well.
Speaker: And then John's directed me in shows and has really helped me dig into
Speaker: these things as well.
Speaker: So it's just beautiful to see how these things get passed on beyond the direct.
Speaker: And if you keep zooming out, right, think of like, because that was how many years Pris had been doing it.
Speaker: And I'm going to think of going to, you know, going to the CETA conferences and being able to be poured into by Dr. Patton and Pris.
Speaker: I remember her doing the one session on the,
Speaker: We all had to pick a character from our town.
Speaker: It was a little bit, it was just an exercise thing.
Speaker: But again, I remember just being like, wow, that's so rich.
Speaker: And so I think about, again, richness is a word I use a lot because if you think of
Speaker: You know if somebody's just plunking around on a keyboard, you know like that's fine like I do every time for that That's fine for that, right?
Speaker: But it doesn't and I wouldn't say don't start somewhere, you know don't not start because you can't be sure but then to think about the richness of you know like a Whatever a full orchestral score or something again going back to
Speaker: Yeah, just the richness of that.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: No, I can really relate to that.
Speaker: This has actually helped me think about some of what we were talking about earlier because I played basketball in high school and that was more difficult for me than when I started doing theater after college because I was like, this is just having fun on stage.
Speaker: Whereas basketball, I really had to mentally and physically push myself.
Speaker: I think I probably did a lot of shows where I'm just like mainly just having fun on stage and it's not really I think it's been more like more recent shows and some of the shows that John's directed me and I was like oh wait that was difficult and I was being pushed that maybe I just wasn't doing it right before yeah and I think of God's you know
Speaker: patience with us, right?
Speaker: And so like the opportunity to grow again, if that's, you know, I was there too, right?
Speaker: If that's where we were then, that's not a waste in the path, but hopefully, you know, God as he promises to not just leave us where we are, but to like conform us to the image of Christ.
Speaker: Hopefully there's somebody along the way, like Briss did for us, that is helping us not stay where we're at.
Speaker: And I guess I would say not everybody
Speaker: I guess as a director and teacher heart, then, well, I'm generally not gonna let my actors stay where they're at.
Speaker: I do have the luxury of it's, it is, if you will, educational setting, and so on some level they have to listen to me, but they don't really have to, but they do, I get, you know, so anyway, I'm just saying, I'm gonna, I'm gonna,
Speaker: push them, I'm gonna drive them, I'm going to encourage them.
Speaker: And then some of that comes in the mix of having relationship with them so that it's not just me barking at them all the time, right?
Speaker: I would assume your relationship with John allowed... It's horrible, and so... So it's the norm that I yell at him.
Speaker: And you can take it and see that because he cares for you, cannot leave you there.
Speaker: Oh, totally.
Speaker: With such kindness.
Speaker: pushing along and it's such a picture of love when someone does that for you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: How important do you think having, you've mentioned the word serving a lot, how important do you think it is to have that servant's heart as you're navigating this, either as an actor who's creating or as a director trying to shape a performance or a teacher, or even thinking like a painter or a writer who's trying to hammer something out of nothing.
Speaker: Neither of those are from Jesus and Hammer, but I'll mix my metaphors.
Speaker: It's fine.
Speaker: How important do you think that is to... Well, I think, again, as we talk about how are we reflecting the Lord in his heart and how are we reflecting Christ who set aside his glory to come and to redeem us.
Speaker: He didn't do that for his own good, but it was a really beautiful thing.
Speaker: but really beautiful when you think of what that is.
Speaker: So anyway, some of that is just operating, if you will, like Christ.
Speaker: And it's like some of it, we don't mean to over spiritualize, some of it's just like,
Speaker: actor don't walk out of the light because you're not at the core you're not serving your audience by going and delivering this line in the dark right when they're confused because they can't see you or because they see it as a mistake and now they're distracted from the story because they
Speaker: or when the lights, you know, half through across your face.
Speaker: Unless it was some super artsy convention, and then that's what you're doing all the time.
Speaker: They're probably distracted then too.
Speaker: Some of them are, but again, if you establish this is how we are actually.
Speaker: Every character is lit, like, through two faces.
Speaker: Then you're like, this is just two faces everywhere.
Speaker: The universe is.
Speaker: Yeah, let's see if there was something else I was gonna say about that.
Speaker: I think it is real practical in theater because it is an interactive thing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: In all of the process, that's all good.
Speaker: But in the end, we're sharing the story with people who are seeing the story.
Speaker: Doing it in a way to serve them, and by serving, I don't
Speaker: entertain, but serve them in a way that they can enter into the story.
Speaker: They can hate the story if they want.
Speaker: They can love the story.
Speaker: They can think it was fun and funny.
Speaker: They can say, I'm never going to go watch that show again.
Speaker: Our responsibility is not to make them like it, but we can serve them by serving the story.
Speaker: And how we're going to serve the story is by us as the actor serving our character to bring that character to life.
Speaker: Or I would say then we have to die to self because there might be some things that are like, oh, this would get a laugh or this would be, I'm going to enjoy it.
Speaker: I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy it, but the point is not us enjoying it.
Speaker: And I would say in this,
Speaker: enters the building and how they get to their seat is a part of serving them, not just because we want them to be happy customers, which we do, but if they have a bad experience getting to their seat, it's gonna be really hard for them to enter into the story we're trying to share with them.
Speaker: It might be different things, like if somebody has a, a God has put on their heart to write a book or create a story, a book, or even just share something or to paint something or whatever.
Speaker: Like some of it is, and this is where we've gotta, we can often dissect too much.
Speaker: Like we,
Speaker: Are we doing this for our self gratification or are we doing this for others?
Speaker: Well, I think we can enjoy things without having to be only self-serving.
Speaker: And it doesn't have to be only about other people and I can't enjoy it.
Speaker: That's where it's like, I think of it as like, it's a win-win if you serve with it.
Speaker: I'm not a painter, so I can't exactly say what an artist's heart there would be to say, I want to serve with this.
Speaker: I'm sure there are a lot of people who have.
Speaker: They get a vision for, here's this series of works that are gonna help point to some truth.
Speaker: Well, all painters have been heathens.
Speaker: No, I think that's beautiful.
Speaker: phase of writing, that scene or that interaction or that great paragraph that you like is so artful that you love so much is most likely the thing that's dragging down your writing and that is causing a problem.
Speaker: And so like it's the number one piece of advice I hear in editing is just kill your darlings.
Speaker: The part of your book that you love the most
Speaker: maybe it's connecting with people, but a lot of times it may not be.
Speaker: And you need to be willing to cut the piece that you personally love for the good of the whole, which took me a really long time to like get around to.
Speaker: I don't think it was until I was working on
Speaker: because you can see the timeline there and you can see the preview there.
Speaker: I was like, what if I just delete this whole sequence?
Speaker: I just clicked on it, deleted it, compressed it, and then just watched the cut.
Speaker: And I was like, yeah, that's it.
Speaker: It's great without all this eight hours of work that I just put into this.
Speaker: But yeah, so dying to self there and saying, like, even though I think this thing is beautiful, it doesn't serve.
Speaker: You know, when you think of actors, you know, if we as actors are like, oh, this is going to be a great moment, boom, or whatever, and then again, kind of turn the focus on ourself.
Speaker: And it can be, again, probably more often unknown, unrealized, you know, that they're like always putting a pause dramatically right here.
Speaker: You know, it's like,
Speaker: But you're serving yourself with that one.
Speaker: I mean, I might not exactly know those words.
Speaker: Again, I'm not trying to over-spiritualize that.
Speaker: It might just be a tendency that they have, but they're comfortable with it.
Speaker: So I'm always kind of saying, if you're watching this, you can see I'm moving all the time.
Speaker: Well, if I'm playing a character who doesn't move, well, I've got to die to self.
Speaker: And I appreciate that you guys didn't
Speaker: No, it's a casual environment.
Speaker: Brad, be a statue.
Speaker: Think of Shea as a gargoyle.
Speaker: Do that.
Speaker: We're getting close to an hour, so I guess I should wrap it up here, but this has been wonderful.
Speaker: I could keep going.
Speaker: I'd love to have you on again sometime.
Speaker: But I'm curious, one of the questions I always ask at the end is for resources, because, you know,
Speaker: especially when I was like thinking about film, just finding different resources and books and things were so helpful to me.
Speaker: And so I wanna build that and have that available for others.
Speaker: So what are some resources for you either as a Christian in your walk or as an artist that have been particularly helpful that you would recommend?
Speaker: Yeah, there's a couple, as I think about that, there's a couple of things.
Speaker: One, I remember Addicted to Mediocrity by Frankie Schaefer.
Speaker: and kind of sort of addressing the, if you will, dumbing down of Christian art.
Speaker: So that was, I would encourage people to read that, let that be inspiring to, you know, high bar.
Speaker: And again, we need to be stewards of what God has given us.
Speaker: Like if I am, if he has not given me the opportunity or whatever to give
Speaker: Painting and people who hammer sculptures.
Speaker: I think of things on the whole, I think of having the freedom to, again, like I said, by God's grace, he allowed me to be able to trust him to take this step.
Speaker: So I think of that as freedom.
Speaker: Like I was not bound,
Speaker: by the truth that I needed to provide for my family.
Speaker: I mean, I wasn't like throwing it away, but I was trusting him so I had freedom.
Speaker: And so I think a lot about the freedom to take risks, to shoot high against
Speaker: And so I'm often trying to help my students learn how to be free, free to not serve themselves, even free to not protect themselves.
Speaker: And I don't mean that as an absolute statement and go put yourself in these situations, but the sense of like, I can make a choice right now and it can totally bond.
Speaker: not.
Speaker: Great, now we can move forward.
Speaker: You know, so just thinking of things like our being seated with Christ because we are redeemed by him gives us the freedom to go wherever he would have us
Speaker: you know, you can just apply that absolutely and say, I'm going to go do this risky thing.
Speaker: Trust God will save me from running across the highway.
Speaker: That's what Satan said for Jesus to do.
Speaker: Jump off the building.
Speaker: Yeah, right, right, right.
Speaker: So Sit, Walk, Stand was a devotional that actually one of my sons got for a graduation present.
Speaker: And that just was like a really great, I read through it.
Speaker: It's a short read, but just thinking about
Speaker: being at peace with God and his love for us and his completed work so that now we can go do things.
Speaker: We could go do the good work he's prepared beforehand for us to do.
Speaker: Where I'm sure lots of people and myself included, right?
Speaker: It's gonna be like, that's too scary or I don't know what I'm doing so I can't go do that.
Speaker: I guess I would say.
Speaker: we have somebody who does know and we can trust in him and we know he cares for us and loves us and is going to glorify himself through us.
Speaker: So if that's through our horrible failure, then may he be praised somehow in a way that I don't know how he can do that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: Oh, that's beautiful.
Speaker: I feel like
Speaker: and like emphasize that is kind of this podcast and artist of the way in a way.
Speaker: Cause there was a, back in 2022, Shane, I met with you and Tanya and we were chatting with a bunch of people.
Speaker: Cause I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing in my life.
Speaker: And I feel like I need to cut something out and the thing I want to cut out is my job.
Speaker: Cause that seems to be the thing I've been specifically called to and I can't do that.
Speaker: And I was just processing all these things.
Speaker: I just had so many hangups about them on so many levels and like hangups about me being able to do them.
Speaker: And you just brought me back to that.
Speaker: You and one other friend of mine who was just like, remember that there's freedom in Christ and that he's giving you so much more and just thinking about that you're only here by the grace of God.
Speaker: And I like in the wake of that, like when like really studied through Roman
Speaker: has really redeemed me and just the insane freedom that we don't live according to the flesh anymore.
Speaker: We don't have to hold on to that burden, but we live by the Spirit.
Speaker: We live to the Spirit now.
Speaker: We've been resurrected.
Speaker: We've been baptized.
Speaker: We died and came back with Christ.
Speaker: And now we're, like you said, seated with him.
Speaker: Like just the insane freedom to say, oh, cool, then
Speaker: God's really got everything.
Speaker: There's nothing that I can't trust Him with, even when that's scary.
Speaker: And for me, that was like personal failure of not necessarily like doing a creative thing and that being a risk, but like on a personal level, like if I step into this sort of world and that's what I'm making my life, can I still be a good Christian and a good husband and a good father eventually and all of that?
Speaker: and just the reminder of the freedom that we have in Christ is just, is probably the reason that this is happening and anything with artists is the way, but I just, A, thank you.
Speaker: That's been, that was very shaping, but B, to like emphasize that, like there is so much beauty and freedom and joy to be found when you just trust God, which is not to say that then he'll,
Speaker: You're like, cool, you're not gonna sit again, because I definitely have in the last three years.
Speaker: That was a couple years ago.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I need to do it again.
Speaker: Stay home.
Speaker: but just it's beautiful yeah so i i totally agree and it's cool to hear that emotional where that was sort of the scene for you too so sweet well thank you so much this has been a lovely conversation i've enjoyed it so much it's been great happy on thank you glad to be here
