Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Grace, Storytelling, and Cultivate '25 with our own Jon Wilson
61 Plays4 months ago
In this episode Nate takes the reins and interviews Jon about his relationship to art, his experience of God's presence in art, the story behind how Artists of the Way came to be, and the upcoming Cultivate conference!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:03
Speaker
Hello.
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to Artists of the Way.
00:00:08
Speaker
My name is Nate Knobloch.
00:00:11
Speaker
And today, I'm interviewing someone very special.
00:00:17
Speaker
You may know him by his birth name.
00:00:22
Speaker
John Jonathan Wilson.
00:00:26
Speaker
My middle name is Jonathan.
00:00:29
Speaker
Few people know this about me.
00:00:32
Speaker
Now has come to light John Jonathan Wilson.
00:00:34
Speaker
John.
00:00:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:36
Speaker
Thank you for coming to the podcast today.
00:00:38
Speaker
Thanks.
00:00:38
Speaker
Usually this is a two host podcast where we interview others.
00:00:44
Speaker
My co-host was unavailable today.
00:00:48
Speaker
He was the one I was really looking forward to talking to.
00:00:50
Speaker
I know.
00:00:51
Speaker
You guys have great conversations.
00:00:52
Speaker
I've seen it.
00:00:53
Speaker
It's been a little scary.
00:00:58
Speaker
But thank you for
About John Jonathan Wilson and 'Artists of the Way'
00:01:00
Speaker
coming on.
00:01:00
Speaker
John here is executive director of a little organization called Artists of the Way.
00:01:08
Speaker
Ever heard of it?
00:01:11
Speaker
And we're going to talk today with John about Artists of the Way, about a conference Artists of the Way has coming up called Cultivate 25.
00:01:20
Speaker
It's the only year they can call it that.
00:01:24
Speaker
I mean, we could call it Cultivate 25 Beyond this year.
00:01:29
Speaker
That would just be confusing.
00:01:33
Speaker
We could do Cultivate 25 too.
00:01:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:36
Speaker
Electric Boogaloo.
00:01:37
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:01:39
Speaker
Et cetera.
00:01:40
Speaker
Et cetera is the next year.
00:01:42
Speaker
We changed the name completely to et cetera.
00:01:45
Speaker
And so we're going to hear from John about his history with art, about Cultivate, this exciting conference that's coming up next weekend.
00:01:56
Speaker
Can you believe that?
00:01:57
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that is crazy.
00:01:57
Speaker
It's true.
00:01:59
Speaker
And John is one of the instructors at Cultivate, too.
00:02:02
Speaker
So we're going to hear about what you can learn from John so that just listen to it now.
00:02:06
Speaker
You won't have to go.
00:02:07
Speaker
So be free.
00:02:08
Speaker
There you go.
00:02:09
Speaker
I will.
00:02:10
Speaker
This is going to be a two hour episode.
00:02:12
Speaker
It's going to be interactive.
00:02:14
Speaker
Yes.
John's Artistic Journey and Inspirations
00:02:16
Speaker
We're going to do a repetition exercise.
00:02:18
Speaker
I'm going to look right in the camera.
00:02:21
Speaker
Virtual repetition.
00:02:22
Speaker
This practically episode of Dora the Explorer.
00:02:25
Speaker
Meissner is just rolling over in his grave.
00:02:29
Speaker
Well, John.
00:02:31
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:31
Speaker
What's your name?
00:02:37
Speaker
William.
00:02:39
Speaker
William.
00:02:40
Speaker
Now tell me.
00:02:42
Speaker
William.
00:02:44
Speaker
You and Art.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:48
Speaker
What's the backstory there?
00:02:51
Speaker
There's no backstory.
00:02:52
Speaker
Next question.
00:02:54
Speaker
No.
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah, tell me about it.
00:02:57
Speaker
You have a great love for art and for the Lord.
00:03:00
Speaker
And art has become an integral part in your life.
00:03:03
Speaker
And when did that start and how has it developed?
00:03:07
Speaker
It's kind of always been there.
00:03:08
Speaker
I think it actually started with music, which is one of the.
00:03:13
Speaker
One of the arts.
00:03:14
Speaker
Yes.
00:03:14
Speaker
It is one of the arts.
00:03:15
Speaker
It's one of the disciplines I think I engage with.
00:03:18
Speaker
Less now.
00:03:19
Speaker
I want to get a little bit more into it.
00:03:21
Speaker
But I, yeah, I think I've always been a bit of a storyteller.
00:03:29
Speaker
I think that's kind of been the central thing.
00:03:31
Speaker
That and a love for music.
00:03:33
Speaker
I started playing violin when I was three and a half.
00:03:38
Speaker
Wow.
00:03:38
Speaker
I believe.
00:03:40
Speaker
I was very young.
00:03:40
Speaker
I was just obnoxiously pestering my mom.
00:03:43
Speaker
saying I'd like to learn to play this instrument because it sounds nice.
00:03:47
Speaker
Did you know what it was?
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah, a violin.
00:03:49
Speaker
Yeah, violin.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:50
Speaker
But I don't know how I pronounced that at three.
00:03:55
Speaker
I want a vitamin.
00:03:58
Speaker
You want a vitamin?
00:04:00
Speaker
You want to play the vitamin?
00:04:02
Speaker
They're not toys, John.
00:04:06
Speaker
But after asking dozens of times, my mom was like, OK, I guess we'll put them into lessons.
00:04:11
Speaker
Wow.
00:04:12
Speaker
And I did enjoy that a lot.
00:04:14
Speaker
I think it shaped a lot of me.
00:04:18
Speaker
I think I think I think musically something I say a lot, which I'm sure podcast listeners have heard is I have an abstract thought.
00:04:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:26
Speaker
And in recent years, like the last couple, I've started to like think of that as music, like it feels like it's like a wall of music.
00:04:34
Speaker
and it has a mood and a sort of sound and I have to translate it into words.
00:04:39
Speaker
I like that.
00:04:40
Speaker
I think that's how I think.
00:04:42
Speaker
So sometimes that sort of music gets translated into words easier.
00:04:50
Speaker
Sometimes I pick the word easier instead of easier.
00:04:53
Speaker
It's okay.
00:04:54
Speaker
And sometimes it takes a minute to kind of wrangle it all in.
00:04:57
Speaker
Yes, it's a translation process.
00:04:58
Speaker
It is.
00:05:00
Speaker
But so music was the first one I engaged with.
00:05:04
Speaker
Music was always really technical for me.
00:05:07
Speaker
I don't think it was until I stopped pursuing challenging music that I actually started enjoying music.
00:05:13
Speaker
Right.
00:05:16
Speaker
For a while it was express what I'm feeling inside.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah, I know I don't have to just try and do faster and more intense songs to show off I can Express my emotions.
00:05:27
Speaker
So I feel like I've been able to do that in recent years, which has been nice but storytelling was the thing that I think really Lit me on fire.
00:05:35
Speaker
I love violin.
00:05:36
Speaker
I love music.
00:05:37
Speaker
I love music very much but as far as my creative process I
00:05:43
Speaker
For as long as I can remember, I've had characters that I've wanted to create and stories I wanted to tell.
00:05:49
Speaker
I think it really began as like a writer storyteller sort of instinct.
00:05:55
Speaker
And that eventually turned itself into a desire to go into film.
00:06:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:02
Speaker
My parents are divorced and we were homeschooled.
00:06:05
Speaker
So do the math of one parent in the home and children and not daycare means we're at home and we're supposed to be doing school, but I didn't do school.
00:06:15
Speaker
I popped open the behind the scenes of the Star Wars prequels and just watched them so much that my brother literally broke one of the discs because he was like, John, stop watching this, please.
00:06:28
Speaker
It's all we watched 24 seven.
00:06:29
Speaker
And I was like, no.
00:06:31
Speaker
We're going to watch it.
00:06:32
Speaker
And he was like, well, the disc is gone.
00:06:34
Speaker
I was like, no.
00:06:35
Speaker
Dad, did you ever get that replaced?
00:06:39
Speaker
Maybe on this pocket note.
00:06:41
Speaker
It sounded like a leader to hear.
00:06:43
Speaker
Someone's out the door.
00:06:44
Speaker
It's the DVD.
00:06:45
Speaker
I think the ones I just got some Star Wars for Christmas, I think they have behind the scenes so I can watch them again.
00:06:51
Speaker
I love that.
00:06:52
Speaker
I should borrow that from you.
00:06:53
Speaker
Oh, they're great.
00:06:54
Speaker
I love behind the scenes more than movies often.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yes, they're some of the best behind the scenes content, I think.
00:07:02
Speaker
Really?
00:07:03
Speaker
Yeah, I would put it up there.
00:07:04
Speaker
It's not
The Interplay of Theater, Storytelling, and Spirituality
00:07:05
Speaker
at the level of Lord of the Rings, but it's in that vein.
00:07:10
Speaker
But I just fell in love with what I was seeing there.
00:07:13
Speaker
It looked so fun.
00:07:14
Speaker
I loved the visual nature of it.
00:07:17
Speaker
And I loved what looked like this process of embodying these characters.
00:07:22
Speaker
And at like seven, that was like, wow, it looks really cool to wave a lightsaber around and do flips and things.
00:07:30
Speaker
I saw that with Spider-Man as well.
00:07:31
Speaker
I was like, oh, you just get to like be this character.
00:07:34
Speaker
That's so cool.
00:07:36
Speaker
So I had like a whole plan for film until high school and then, um,
00:07:43
Speaker
Theater was part of that plan because I was like, where better to get my teeth wet than community teeth wet?
00:07:51
Speaker
Yes, that's correct.
00:07:52
Speaker
They do a lot of teeth wetting there.
00:07:55
Speaker
I'm just doing great today to cut my teeth and get my feet wet.
00:08:00
Speaker
There we go.
00:08:00
Speaker
Where better to cut my feet?
00:08:08
Speaker
But what about it in community theater?
00:08:09
Speaker
I can experiment.
00:08:10
Speaker
I can learn what this acting and directing piece is all about.
00:08:13
Speaker
And then I can put that into film.
00:08:15
Speaker
And by the time I'm 21, I'll have an indie darling that's one Sundance and I will be in Hollywood and I can create a DC universe.
00:08:23
Speaker
I have a whole six film saga of Green Lantern that I'd still love to make.
00:08:30
Speaker
Are you listening?
00:08:31
Speaker
James Gunn.
00:08:32
Speaker
James Gunn.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah, I will never make that six film saga, but I love it in my heart.
00:08:39
Speaker
But in doing theater, I discovered that I liked acting more than I liked directing.
00:08:45
Speaker
Uh-oh.
00:08:45
Speaker
And I was like, well, do I like acting on film more?
00:08:49
Speaker
Or do I like acting on stage more?
00:08:51
Speaker
And the answer was on stage.
00:08:53
Speaker
Uh-oh.
00:08:54
Speaker
And this was like my junior year of high school.
00:08:57
Speaker
Life is about to start.
00:08:58
Speaker
I know.
00:08:59
Speaker
I was ready to pull the trigger on the plan.
00:09:02
Speaker
I had scripts.
00:09:05
Speaker
I had colleges I was looking at.
00:09:08
Speaker
I was ready.
00:09:08
Speaker
Wow.
00:09:09
Speaker
And then it was like, oh, shoot.
00:09:12
Speaker
I think I like theater better.
00:09:14
Speaker
And I have no idea what that means.
00:09:16
Speaker
And so I was like, Lord, what do you want me to do?
00:09:18
Speaker
And then he led me to Bible school, which is another, another, a different.
00:09:22
Speaker
This makes no sense.
00:09:23
Speaker
I know that was, that was what I thought, but he's, he's working it out.
00:09:27
Speaker
Um, that's my abbreviated history with art.
00:09:30
Speaker
So I've that the piece I've already always been able to go back to is that that storyteller.
00:09:38
Speaker
Um, yeah.
00:09:38
Speaker
Why does that, why is that so important to you?
00:09:45
Speaker
I don't know.
00:09:45
Speaker
That's a good question.
00:09:47
Speaker
Let's figure it out right now.
00:09:50
Speaker
I just think stories...
00:09:57
Speaker
They're just beautiful, I think.
00:09:59
Speaker
When you do them well, whether it be comedy or tragedy or something in between or a popcorn action flick, I just think there's such beauty to a story done well that reveals the human experience.
00:10:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:17
Speaker
And if done well, gives a little peek at eternity in the divine.
00:10:25
Speaker
And it's not that no other forms can do that.
00:10:30
Speaker
I think they all do it just as well.
00:10:32
Speaker
I just think I really think I was created to tell stories like it just resonates with me.
00:10:38
Speaker
I just understand it.
00:10:39
Speaker
I understand the three act structure.
00:10:42
Speaker
I it's, it's like a symphony that I can see all the pieces too.
00:10:46
Speaker
And I can see how they need to go, which is not to say that I do it well all the time.
00:10:50
Speaker
I don't, um, that's what he was saying.
00:10:55
Speaker
But I, I just very naturally can see what's a story, what needs to be drawn out here.
00:11:01
Speaker
How is this moving and flowing and how is it hitting audiences and how is it hitting me and what's, uh, what's frothing up to the top with the themes.
00:11:11
Speaker
Um,
00:11:12
Speaker
That's beautiful.
00:11:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:14
Speaker
No, and that's, I think that's so true that like stories are just so connected with reality because we experience life as a story.
00:11:24
Speaker
Right.
00:11:25
Speaker
And God is the great author.
00:11:27
Speaker
And I think that's the best way maybe to receive truth is through a story.
00:11:33
Speaker
And I've found for me, I think for a lot of people, I don't want to speak for everybody because obviously everybody's drawn to different forms of art for different reasons, but stories create a unique connection to life that I think other forms of art don't always do, at least for me, where... It's more direct.
00:11:55
Speaker
It's more direct.
00:11:56
Speaker
I can recognize an experience that I've lived in a film or in a book and feel...
00:12:03
Speaker
cathartic or validated or moved or like it pops a joint back in.
00:12:10
Speaker
Or when I'm going through a challenging time, I can...
00:12:14
Speaker
I can look back on stories or characters that were really meaningful to me and they can be inspirational things that help me navigate that or give me some strength to get through.
00:12:26
Speaker
I finally coped with getting shots by thinking about how Captain America is just fine when he gets his blood drawn.
00:12:32
Speaker
So I'm like, okay, I can be like Captain America.
00:12:34
Speaker
I don't know about getting shot.
00:12:36
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't bother me anymore because I was like Superman.
00:12:38
Speaker
He's bulletproof.
00:12:40
Speaker
No, and I think that theater and the cinema, they combine a lot of the arts so that you get all those things punching at once.
00:12:53
Speaker
You get the story element that you get from a campfire story where there's no visuals.
00:13:00
Speaker
But then you get the visual element by, you know, excellent cinematography and sets and scenes.
00:13:08
Speaker
And then you get the music element, which works, goes directly to your heart and draws you out.
00:13:18
Speaker
And I think it gives... The pottery element sometimes.
00:13:20
Speaker
Sometimes there's pottery if your prop needs it.
00:13:23
Speaker
And I think...
00:13:24
Speaker
theater can help artists explore those mediums like i fell in love with set design at some point and and i created with with a couple collaborators but it was my sort of concept for it i've i've created i think beautiful and moving to me like
00:13:45
Speaker
basically a sculpture, like a paper mache sculpture.
00:13:49
Speaker
And, and just, and visual like staging and images.
00:13:53
Speaker
Like it's, it's allowed me to express a lot of artistic sensibilities.
00:13:59
Speaker
I didn't know I had, I didn't know that I cared so much about color until I started playing with lighting.
00:14:05
Speaker
And now I've brought that nitpickiness into my home life and Shay hates it.
00:14:10
Speaker
But she's happier.
00:14:12
Speaker
She is happier for it.
00:14:14
Speaker
But like,
00:14:17
Speaker
There's just a wealth of opportunities to get to explore and bring together so many artistic forms that then get to play together in, again, this sort of symphonic playground.
00:14:28
Speaker
It's really cool.
00:14:29
Speaker
And one of those things being used, of course, is acting.
00:14:34
Speaker
The goat.
00:14:36
Speaker
The goat!
00:14:39
Speaker
And that's what you're going to be teaching at Cultivate, right?
00:14:45
Speaker
Sure is.
00:14:46
Speaker
The various acting methods?
00:14:48
Speaker
Yes.
00:14:49
Speaker
Some various acting.
00:14:50
Speaker
I can't cover all of them in an hour.
00:14:52
Speaker
All of them coming.
00:14:54
Speaker
No, no, no, no, no.
00:14:56
Speaker
There's at least one that I don't like, so I wouldn't cover this.
00:14:59
Speaker
Oh, good, good.
00:15:01
Speaker
Um, so, so why, why does acting matter so much to you?
00:15:06
Speaker
Like what good does acting do
'Artists of the Way' and the Cultivate Conference
00:15:09
Speaker
the world and why does it resonate so much with you and why should people care to come learn about that?
00:15:17
Speaker
I think a little bit of it is what I shared previously in relation to story, thinking about how it benefits an audience member or me as an audience member.
00:15:26
Speaker
Um,
00:15:28
Speaker
There's something about seeing somebody embody something that you know, um, a good thing or a bad thing that I think heals the human spirit to just be like, I'm not alone to have your pain recognized and validated or to have, um,
00:15:52
Speaker
your hope, uh, rejuvenated or, or sort of a little miniature proof of it.
00:15:59
Speaker
Um, and that embodiment piece I think is so important.
00:16:04
Speaker
It's one of the reasons I think I struggle to read books sometimes cause I want to see the thing embodied.
00:16:10
Speaker
Um, and I'm, I'm learning to get past that and enjoy great prose.
00:16:14
Speaker
Um, but I want to see it living.
00:16:19
Speaker
Um, and,
00:16:20
Speaker
And that's particularly why I love theater.
00:16:23
Speaker
You can get that in film for sure.
00:16:25
Speaker
I love film.
00:16:26
Speaker
I've been moved by many films.
00:16:27
Speaker
But you know there's cuts.
00:16:29
Speaker
I do know there's cuts.
00:16:30
Speaker
But there's also this screen in between me and that person's experience.
00:16:36
Speaker
Makes a difference, doesn't it?
00:16:37
Speaker
It does.
00:16:39
Speaker
When you're in the space, even if you are 200 feet away, there's something about, man, that person down there is crying real tears.
00:16:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:51
Speaker
In the room that I'm in.
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:54
Speaker
That hits a person differently to, I think, I think it probably opens up our empathy because we're not just staring at blue light and pixels.
00:17:05
Speaker
We're staring at a living person.
00:17:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:08
Speaker
Without a mediation.
00:17:09
Speaker
Right.
00:17:11
Speaker
They're just there.
00:17:11
Speaker
They're living that out.
00:17:13
Speaker
You know,
00:17:15
Speaker
I'm watching this person live go through these feelings.
00:17:20
Speaker
And do you think there's even something about our souls are in proximity to each other?
00:17:26
Speaker
Yes.
00:17:26
Speaker
So that's why I think that unlocks that empathy because you're like, great.
00:17:33
Speaker
So I'm here with this person and they're crying that any human nature would want to re even if it's just like, that's uncomfortable.
00:17:43
Speaker
I want to look away.
00:17:47
Speaker
you can't really ignore those things, right?
00:17:50
Speaker
Like you can't ignore the couple that's arguing in the store in your vicinity.
00:17:55
Speaker
You can kind of tune them out, but you're still reacting to that thing.
00:18:00
Speaker
You're still tuning them out.
00:18:01
Speaker
That is engaging with it to a degree.
00:18:04
Speaker
And so I think it does that.
00:18:06
Speaker
We can't help but engage with the people around us unless we can totally absorb ourselves into something like a book or our phone or something.
00:18:15
Speaker
Um, but theater doesn't let you do that.
00:18:19
Speaker
Um, unless you're breaking the rules and have your phone out.
00:18:21
Speaker
So, um,
00:18:23
Speaker
As an audience member, I think that's what's important.
00:18:26
Speaker
As a performer, there's a variety of answers I could give, some that are healthier than others probably.
00:18:35
Speaker
Let's see which one it goes with.
00:18:40
Speaker
Well, there is an aspect to which I think performing can be like a drug for some people.
00:18:49
Speaker
because I never feel as invincible as I do when I'm on stage.
00:18:54
Speaker
Like if I get on stage, I'm like, I can do anything and it's going to be fine.
00:18:59
Speaker
If the scene requires me to throw myself on this floor, it's going to be fine.
00:19:03
Speaker
Even though this floor is basically just cement with like a half inch of carpet above it.
00:19:08
Speaker
As I, in the stage, I frequently perform it, you know, I'm going to be fine.
00:19:12
Speaker
I've,
00:19:14
Speaker
when I did Cotton Patch, they were like, we want to throw something into the start of this song, some fun choreography.
00:19:22
Speaker
Make it me.
00:19:22
Speaker
Throw me.
00:19:23
Speaker
And I was like, well, I think I can just do a roll.
00:19:26
Speaker
And they were like, are you sure?
00:19:27
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, I've done it in martial arts.
00:19:29
Speaker
I can do it.
00:19:30
Speaker
I can just jump and do a roll, and that'll be really fun.
00:19:32
Speaker
And they're like, that'll be great.
00:19:33
Speaker
And I was like, great.
00:19:34
Speaker
And so I was about to do it and show them.
00:19:36
Speaker
And I was like, ooh, I'm downstairs on, again, a cement floor with a quarter, half inch of carpet above it.
00:19:43
Speaker
And I realized, I've never actually done this anywhere but on a mat.
00:19:48
Speaker
I was like, well, too late.
00:19:50
Speaker
I'm here now.
00:19:51
Speaker
I hope I don't kill myself when I do it.
00:19:54
Speaker
So that's maybe one of the more.
00:19:54
Speaker
Did you do it every show then?
00:19:56
Speaker
I did, and I didn't get injured.
00:19:58
Speaker
Nice.
00:19:58
Speaker
The guy who did it with me did get injured one night.
00:20:01
Speaker
Because he did not.
00:20:03
Speaker
He wasn't trained, and we didn't take the time to train him.
00:20:06
Speaker
That's another story.
00:20:09
Speaker
Don't have time for that.
00:20:10
Speaker
But...
00:20:13
Speaker
There is something about that.
00:20:15
Speaker
It's just so freeing to me to be on stage.
00:20:17
Speaker
Like it feels like that's where I'm supposed to be.
00:20:20
Speaker
That's great.
00:20:21
Speaker
And it's not the only place I'm supposed to be for sure.
00:20:25
Speaker
But it is it is.
00:20:26
Speaker
And I get there and I'm like, oh, yes.
00:20:28
Speaker
Again, like just being in the midst of a story, I understand.
00:20:32
Speaker
I feel like I understand what a story needs.
00:20:34
Speaker
I feel like I know what story is.
00:20:36
Speaker
Like it's just baked into me.
00:20:38
Speaker
So I just get on stage and I'm like, great, I'm in the playground that I know what to do in.
00:20:41
Speaker
And I just get to, it's like,
00:20:45
Speaker
It captures the same feeling for me that as a kid, when you get a video game and you're like, the possibilities are endless.
00:20:52
Speaker
And maybe this video game is a little bit more advanced than the last video game you played.
00:20:56
Speaker
And you're like, what?
00:20:57
Speaker
Video games can do this now.
00:20:58
Speaker
I can go anywhere.
00:21:00
Speaker
I can jump on this thing.
00:21:02
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I could do what it like.
00:21:03
Speaker
It feels like video games have now lost that for me for the most part.
00:21:08
Speaker
I still play them a lot as an adult, but I rarely get the sense of like,
00:21:12
Speaker
awe and wonder, like, wow, I could do anything in this video game.
00:21:15
Speaker
Anything could happen.
00:21:16
Speaker
But I do get that feeling on stage.
00:21:19
Speaker
And that's just so fun.
00:21:21
Speaker
I love it.
00:21:22
Speaker
That's beautiful.
00:21:23
Speaker
But I think it also helps me express my emotions in a really healthy way.
00:21:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:29
Speaker
I like to think I'm a very open, sensitive person.
00:21:32
Speaker
Oh, I am sensitive.
00:21:33
Speaker
I like to think I'm very open with my emotions and that I just let that.
00:21:38
Speaker
I'm so well adjusted.
00:21:39
Speaker
I've done counseling since I was seven.
00:21:41
Speaker
So I know how to handle emotions and I don't.
00:21:46
Speaker
I stuff them so badly.
00:21:47
Speaker
And I've known for almost 20 years not to stuff my emotions.
00:21:52
Speaker
It's like the one thing.
00:21:53
Speaker
And yet I still am just like, get down.
00:21:55
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:56
Speaker
Good.
00:21:56
Speaker
Good.
00:21:58
Speaker
So I think there's something about acting that's just very cathartic of it's just this place where I can just let that out.
00:22:07
Speaker
Like playing, I'm going to mention Hamlet, everybody take a drink.
00:22:12
Speaker
But playing Hamlet and being able to just be like,
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah, in one scene, I'm going to contemplate suicide.
00:22:18
Speaker
And then in the next scene, I'm going to just be the wackiest goober you've ever seen and just mess with everybody.
00:22:24
Speaker
And I basically just have free reign of the stage to just do whatever hijinks I want to to whoever.
00:22:30
Speaker
And then to like go into, OK, now I'm going to just berate myself entirely in my own.
00:22:36
Speaker
horrid cowardice and and and just let out all of my self-loathing and now I'm gonna let out all my like righteous anger at injustice like it's it's when you do it right it can be such a healthy outlet for that yeah it shouldn't be your only emotional outlet John but I think it is a very good emotional outlet
00:22:59
Speaker
And then there's also a reality to it that it's frequently been used to inform my spiritual life.
00:23:04
Speaker
I can point to...
00:23:07
Speaker
several big moments of spiritual growth for me that coincided with a show.
00:23:12
Speaker
Wow.
00:23:12
Speaker
And I don't know.
00:23:14
Speaker
I do think that's the case for everybody.
00:23:16
Speaker
I think there's a deeply spiritual aspect to art.
00:23:18
Speaker
I just also think that for me, especially because I think this is something that God put in my DNA.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:25
Speaker
And you're open to it.
00:23:26
Speaker
Right.
00:23:27
Speaker
That it's like, okay, great, John, you,
00:23:31
Speaker
are called to be my son.
00:23:32
Speaker
And, you know, that's a huge part.
00:23:33
Speaker
And you're, you're, you're trying to do this thing with me.
00:23:36
Speaker
And also I've made you to be an artist.
00:23:38
Speaker
So I'm going to help form you through the art you create.
00:23:41
Speaker
I think that that's probably true for everybody.
00:23:44
Speaker
You know, a God made you to be an engineer and you're pursuing the path of an engineer on that path.
00:23:51
Speaker
Really, you're on the path of Jesus.
00:23:52
Speaker
But as you go towards being an engineer, God's going to shape you through that as well, because that's what he built and made you to be.
00:24:03
Speaker
Right.
00:24:05
Speaker
You know, in his timing and however he works that out.
00:24:07
Speaker
So.
00:24:09
Speaker
But there, there are several moments where I'm like, this was revolutionary to my spiritual life.
00:24:14
Speaker
This was revolutionary to my spiritual life.
00:24:15
Speaker
This was revolutionary to my spiritual life.
00:24:17
Speaker
And they coincide with things that were happening in my artistic life frequently.
00:24:21
Speaker
So that's part of it too, is it's just, it's just become a spiritual rhythm for me almost.
00:24:27
Speaker
So that was a really long answer, but that's beautiful though.
00:24:33
Speaker
Interesting.
00:24:36
Speaker
How do we make ourselves open to that?
00:24:41
Speaker
Because like, I mean, I see theater as a more natural way for that, but not everyone.
00:24:50
Speaker
I don't always open myself up for that.
00:24:54
Speaker
And then even in like, if you have a non-artistic job, how do you open yourself up to this spiritual impact that that can have?
00:25:03
Speaker
That's a great question that I haven't cracked.
00:25:06
Speaker
I think we're a lot worse at this than we think we are.
00:25:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:17
Speaker
Not just in our like, are we doing it, but in our capability to be the ones to do it, to make ourselves open, to connect with God.
00:25:28
Speaker
I have gotten really radical in my view of God's grace where I'm not quite
Faith and Creative Process
00:25:32
Speaker
to like it does everything.
00:25:34
Speaker
I think we still have to respond to his grace.
00:25:36
Speaker
But I really do believe that like seven or eight times out of 10, when...
00:25:45
Speaker
there's this great experience and breakthrough from God.
00:25:48
Speaker
It's not me getting there.
00:25:50
Speaker
It's really God kind of forcing the door open and I'm like, here I am, I'm in this situation now.
00:25:56
Speaker
It's a deus ex machina, you know, like coming in with the eagles.
00:26:01
Speaker
Just deus ex.
00:26:03
Speaker
Right, right.
00:26:04
Speaker
There's no machine.
00:26:05
Speaker
Well, the machine of man, which is Jesus, the body, our machine.
00:26:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:14
Speaker
But it's like if the eagles showed up without there being a moth.
00:26:18
Speaker
Like I didn't even catch the moth.
00:26:20
Speaker
I was just like a moth flittered by for a second.
00:26:23
Speaker
And I was like, maybe I should grab that moth.
00:26:25
Speaker
But then I had to send this email.
00:26:27
Speaker
So I sent the email instead.
00:26:28
Speaker
And then all of a sudden the eagles were like, we're here, sucker.
00:26:31
Speaker
And we're going to make everything great.
00:26:32
Speaker
You know?
00:26:33
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:36
Speaker
I think the only thing for us to do is just ask.
00:26:39
Speaker
Like that's all it is.
00:26:41
Speaker
It's just ask and say, Lord, I can't.
00:26:43
Speaker
I can't do this or I want this.
00:26:46
Speaker
And just if you just write like who among you if your father, if your father asks, if your son asks for fish, we'll give him a stone.
00:26:56
Speaker
Give me a fish.
00:26:57
Speaker
Give me a fish, kid.
00:26:58
Speaker
No, dad, here's a snake.
00:27:00
Speaker
Ah!
00:27:02
Speaker
Right?
00:27:02
Speaker
But it's like, it's that.
00:27:04
Speaker
Ask.
00:27:06
Speaker
And you will receive, you'll receive the spirit of God in your situation.
00:27:11
Speaker
And that has become like, oh, we'll receive the spirit of God.
00:27:15
Speaker
Not necessarily always what we ask for, but as I've gotten older, it's like,
00:27:21
Speaker
That's what I want.
00:27:22
Speaker
I want the spirit of God and more than anything else.
00:27:27
Speaker
And when you have the spirit, it's good things.
00:27:32
Speaker
It is.
00:27:33
Speaker
And boy, we just had a beautiful homily at church on Sunday.
00:27:38
Speaker
It's like a sermon.
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:40
Speaker
It's a sermon, but usually shorter because...
00:27:43
Speaker
We're like, we can discuss four different passages.
00:27:46
Speaker
The Anglicans are just extra.
00:27:47
Speaker
We're like, you guys take an hour for one.
00:27:48
Speaker
We're going to get four and half an hour.
00:27:50
Speaker
It's going to be great.
00:27:51
Speaker
Let's go.
00:27:52
Speaker
Buckle up.
00:27:53
Speaker
But one of the passages was if you just had the faith of a mustard seed.
00:28:01
Speaker
I just heard that.
00:28:04
Speaker
This recently while I was reading.
00:28:06
Speaker
I didn't hear it anywhere.
00:28:07
Speaker
I was reading.
00:28:08
Speaker
You heard it in your mind.
00:28:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:12
Speaker
But he was talking.
00:28:13
Speaker
I can't remember the rest of the context.
00:28:18
Speaker
I don't remember the context in the rest of the homily.
00:28:20
Speaker
I'd have to look at my notes.
00:28:21
Speaker
But he's talking about... He was trying to reframe this in like an encouraging way where he's like, they...
00:28:31
Speaker
Because what wasn't in our reading but is right before is the disciples ask Jesus for more faith.
00:28:38
Speaker
They're like, Lord, give us faith.
00:28:39
Speaker
And Jesus says, all you need is the faith of a mustard seed and you can move a mountain.
00:28:43
Speaker
It's not much.
00:28:44
Speaker
It's not much.
00:28:45
Speaker
And we read that as, oh, my gosh, we don't even have the faith of a mustard seed.
00:28:48
Speaker
We don't even have that.
00:28:49
Speaker
But I think he's saying, no, you do have the faith of a mustard seed.
00:28:53
Speaker
And then Jesus goes on to say, that's what my priest said.
00:28:56
Speaker
And I think I agree with him.
00:28:57
Speaker
Like, if that's all you can conjure, then I'm there with you.
00:29:00
Speaker
Then you have the spirit of God.
00:29:02
Speaker
If you can just conjure the faith of a mustard seed.
00:29:04
Speaker
And I'm like, boy, I feel that in my burnt out life right now, where I'm just like, I feel like I'm just like,
00:29:12
Speaker
You know, like I crushed like soldiers, like looking up and just like barely being able to reach out for their companion, you know, like it feels like I'm just able to just be like, there's just enough time in the day or there's just enough energy for me to just be like, Lord help.
00:29:27
Speaker
Like, right.
00:29:27
Speaker
Like, that's it.
00:29:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:29
Speaker
But then that's all you need.
00:29:31
Speaker
And it's like, it's so fragile a thing.
00:29:34
Speaker
It's so little an effort.
00:29:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:38
Speaker
All you need to do is just, Lord, be there.
00:29:41
Speaker
Lord, help.
00:29:41
Speaker
Lord, help.
00:29:43
Speaker
Those are the two most important words, I think, in the English language.
00:29:48
Speaker
If we could just all learn to say, Lord, help and mean it.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:52
Speaker
That's enough.
00:29:53
Speaker
It's going to be more than us trying to make it work ourself.
00:29:57
Speaker
Yeah, because...
00:30:01
Speaker
Because if I only have enough strength to conjure the faith of a mustard seed,
00:30:05
Speaker
I don't have a lot of strength, so I can't, I then don't have the strength to cover the gap that the mustard seed made me supposed to get me across.
00:30:12
Speaker
Right, right.
00:30:14
Speaker
And that's just a little, that's just a part of abiding in him.
00:30:19
Speaker
And we can't do anything if we don't abide in him, like a vine and a branch abide in him and you and me.
00:30:26
Speaker
So props to Father Chris, who that was his homily that I stole that from.
00:30:33
Speaker
Father Christmas too.
00:30:38
Speaker
All right, next question.
00:30:40
Speaker
All right.
00:30:42
Speaker
Great answer, by the way.
00:30:44
Speaker
Now we need like an explosive graphic on the screen.
00:30:48
Speaker
Question three.
00:30:51
Speaker
Tell me about the origin and mission and vision and purpose of
00:30:59
Speaker
the why behind artists of the way and also tell me about the origin okay big question do people know i don't know if anybody knows the word have i said that on the podcast before i feel like i must have told the story people in come on in folks open the door come on in camera pan slowly forward through wardrobe um
00:31:27
Speaker
So, Artists of the Way is obviously this podcast and now a non-profit organization.
00:31:33
Speaker
No money.
00:31:34
Speaker
No money.
00:31:37
Speaker
Nice.
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah, so.
00:31:42
Speaker
The year was.
00:31:44
Speaker
What was the year?
00:31:44
Speaker
19-aught.
00:31:45
Speaker
90 years before John arrived.
00:31:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:52
Speaker
It was, I don't know, it just sort of happened.
00:31:55
Speaker
Next question.
00:31:57
Speaker
It was, well, it came about in my life in a very, and I still try and be this way, but in just such a very hands-off season for me in my future of like, God's just going to do what he's going to do, and I'm just trying to go step by step.
00:32:09
Speaker
Doesn't he do the best thing?
00:32:10
Speaker
He does do the best things.
00:32:11
Speaker
When, just like, it's just him doing it.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:16
Speaker
So...
00:32:18
Speaker
Keep it up, guys.
00:32:19
Speaker
Keep going.
00:32:20
Speaker
Please.
00:32:21
Speaker
I just, total aside, I'm going to say something that does not bear any pertinence to the podcast.
00:32:27
Speaker
Plug your ears, everyone.
00:32:28
Speaker
Yeah, don't listen to this.
00:32:30
Speaker
No, I just looked on my shelf and I saw my Wolverine action figure and Wolverine wears yellow and blue.
00:32:34
Speaker
And the yellow kind of looks like the texturing and shading on it makes it look like a buttered piece of popcorn from a microwave popcorn bag.
00:32:42
Speaker
Like it's got just that little bit of like the orangish tint to it.
00:32:46
Speaker
And like.
00:32:46
Speaker
Well, it's his pecs.
00:32:49
Speaker
Yeah, his pecs.
00:32:50
Speaker
His pecs and his abs.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:52
Speaker
And so like the shading of it, it just makes it look like a buttered piece of popcorn.
00:32:56
Speaker
And.
00:32:57
Speaker
And we're back.
00:33:00
Speaker
That will stay in the podcast.
00:33:03
Speaker
And we have lost half our listeners at this point.
00:33:05
Speaker
They always turn off when we talk about Wolverine's pecs.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:09
Speaker
Bummer.
00:33:10
Speaker
We can never do an episode on Logan.
00:33:13
Speaker
That's the least peckalicious.
00:33:15
Speaker
Peckalicious.
00:33:16
Speaker
So delicious.
00:33:21
Speaker
So yeah, I'd had inklings about maybe doing something.
00:33:26
Speaker
Like it just felt like in the circles I'd been running, like things weren't quite.
00:33:34
Speaker
Good.
00:33:36
Speaker
I wouldn't say good.
00:33:37
Speaker
He wouldn't.
00:33:41
Speaker
They didn't feel quite right for what I felt like my calling was and where I felt like God was taking me.
00:33:47
Speaker
And sometimes I was more ambitious with trying to figure out what that was and build something.
00:33:52
Speaker
And that usually didn't go well.
00:33:56
Speaker
I had done a podcast already.
00:33:59
Speaker
I had explored the idea of some other kind of theater ministry organization before.
00:34:06
Speaker
And God had just very clearly been like, not the timing, John.
00:34:09
Speaker
Stop thinking about this thing and just do the thing I'm telling you to do now.
00:34:13
Speaker
Go hang out with Nate.
00:34:14
Speaker
Yeah, go hang out with Nate and me.
00:34:18
Speaker
That's all you need.
00:34:20
Speaker
Get married.
00:34:21
Speaker
That's a big part of your life, John.
00:34:23
Speaker
Don't try and start another thing.
00:34:25
Speaker
Um, and then eventually I like, I almost started a podcast.
00:34:29
Speaker
I talked to you about like helping me design a website and a logo and stuff like that.
00:34:34
Speaker
I was ready to pull the trigger on a year before.
00:34:38
Speaker
Technically, hang on.
00:34:42
Speaker
Okay, we're back.
00:34:44
Speaker
My mic just spun.
00:34:47
Speaker
I was like, and I had like topics and I was like, cool, I'm going to start a podcast.
00:34:51
Speaker
It was like a year before artists of the way started.
00:34:54
Speaker
And God was just like, no, not the time.
00:34:56
Speaker
And I don't even really know.
00:34:57
Speaker
Well, I know part of it came out of this exploration of I.
00:35:05
Speaker
was really overwhelmed with school and work and volunteering at theater and podcast.
00:35:15
Speaker
So let's add another thing.
00:35:16
Speaker
No, I just felt like I was really burnt out doing all of these things and like, I couldn't balance all of them.
00:35:22
Speaker
And I was like, well, crap, it feels like as long as I'm working like a normal nine to five job, I'm not going to have the life that I want with my family.
00:35:29
Speaker
And I'm not going to be able to do the things God's called me to.
00:35:33
Speaker
And I had to kind of get to a point of,
00:35:36
Speaker
letting myself be okay being ambitious and pursuing things where I might fail.
00:35:41
Speaker
I was particularly scared of
00:35:44
Speaker
like spiritual leadership, I think like that was the element that scared me the most.
00:35:48
Speaker
And I just I sort of had this like, example bad track in my mind of like, I could do you know, there's like all these checkboxes of like, a bad failing father or spiritual leader.
00:36:02
Speaker
And like, anytime I did anything that seems slightly close to that or put me in a vulnerable spot, it was like, well, john, you're gonna fall onto that track.
00:36:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:09
Speaker
And it seemed like one of those was
00:36:12
Speaker
having an organ, like being in leadership in an organization or, or something like a spiritual leader in an organization.
00:36:19
Speaker
It was like, well, that's just set up perfectly to fail as all these other spiritual leaders.
00:36:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:23
Speaker
So I had to get to a point of kind of really trusting God's grace that wherever he took me, it would, he would,
00:36:33
Speaker
Not let me do that.
00:36:34
Speaker
That's what I'm clinging on to still is, okay, God, don't let me do that.
00:36:37
Speaker
Wow, yeah.
00:36:38
Speaker
That's beautiful.
00:36:40
Speaker
So there's a lot of personal exploration, but in coming to terms with that and then in thinking, okay, I'd love to explore some –
00:36:48
Speaker
Things that could become more permanent things for me and could maybe set me up for a life for my family that I would like better podcast was one of those things that came up of like, this is something that I enjoy.
00:36:58
Speaker
This is something that I think would be a benefit to people.
00:37:02
Speaker
And I would be interested in building and pursuing that.
00:37:08
Speaker
So I was thinking about that.
00:37:09
Speaker
I was ready to pull the trigger in 2022.
00:37:11
Speaker
God said, no, it's not the time.
00:37:14
Speaker
So I was like, great, cool.
00:37:15
Speaker
I'll close all those notes and leave them on my desktop.
00:37:20
Speaker
Good listening.
00:37:21
Speaker
Thanks.
00:37:22
Speaker
Sometimes I'm good at that.
00:37:24
Speaker
And then the real catalyst was Godspell.
00:37:29
Speaker
I was driving to breakfast with my dad and I was listening to Godspell and I was thinking about how I've wanted to do it for years and I had this specific vision that really is rooted in the
00:37:40
Speaker
the cultural conversation of our day.
00:37:43
Speaker
And I was like, shoot, if I don't do this soon, culture is going to like move on to different cultural conversations.
00:37:47
Speaker
You're going to talk about all this stuff.
00:37:48
Speaker
I know.
00:37:49
Speaker
And then my vision is going to expire.
00:37:50
Speaker
And I was like, shoot, if I don't do it soon, I won't get to do the version of gospel I want.
00:37:55
Speaker
And then I felt like I heard something just say, then do it.
00:37:59
Speaker
Like just something.
00:38:00
Speaker
And I was like, is that me or is that God?
00:38:02
Speaker
Because it's that weird kind of like thought or like heart thing.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yes.
00:38:06
Speaker
So I had breakfast with my dad and then I went to a music rehearsal because I was playing in a pit and the whole time I'm like texting Shay of like, should I do Godspell next year?
00:38:16
Speaker
Do we think we could do this?
00:38:17
Speaker
Would we lose the house?
00:38:18
Speaker
I don't know.
00:38:19
Speaker
Let me look up how much the rights are.
00:38:20
Speaker
Let's plan all this right now while I'm playing my violin because I'm an over planner.
00:38:27
Speaker
Sometimes, sometimes I'm an improviser.
00:38:28
Speaker
It depends on the day.
00:38:31
Speaker
And I just on that, like Saturday doing, uh, I think it was a crazy Saturday.
00:38:37
Speaker
So doing two runs of the show.
00:38:39
Speaker
It was a crazy Saturday.
00:38:40
Speaker
Like just doing two runs of the show.
00:38:42
Speaker
I was just like, okay, it feels like God's maybe asking me to explore doing God spell.
00:38:48
Speaker
I didn't know if that meant doing it on my own or with another organization, but then thinking about that, it was like, oh, and also maybe the podcast and those two things feel like they could go together.
00:38:59
Speaker
But I was really, really hesitant about that because I didn't want to let my ambition take over or overstep God.
00:39:07
Speaker
I didn't want to make another Christian arts organization if God didn't want there to be one.
00:39:14
Speaker
So I explored the possibility of doing Godspell with other organizations.
00:39:19
Speaker
I went ahead.
00:39:21
Speaker
I think I went ahead and...
00:39:23
Speaker
No, I explored the opportunity first and it just didn't make sense.
00:39:28
Speaker
Um, or it wasn't the right fit for those organizations.
00:39:33
Speaker
Um, and then at the same time, I just had this sense of like, it also just doesn't feel right at any of the venues around and that I still,
00:39:43
Speaker
I wanted it to be accessible in the inner city, and I think that's still important, and I'm still not sure why.
00:39:47
Speaker
That's a piece that I'm kind of waiting for God to reveal.
00:39:50
Speaker
But I felt like it being accessible to bus routes and people that don't have access to cars, and part of that is I'd love to build opportunities for a more diverse Christian theater artists who can't make it to Caledonia or South Byron Center because they rely on the bus, and the bus doesn't get there, you know?
00:40:10
Speaker
So, but that's all stuff I'm still kind of watching and waiting to see.
00:40:15
Speaker
Okay, God, where are we going with that?
00:40:18
Speaker
But all of those factors kind of came together and it was like, okay, I think maybe God is calling me to just do this
00:40:24
Speaker
independently.
00:40:25
Speaker
All right.
00:40:26
Speaker
Wow.
00:40:27
Speaker
So it really was just like a step-by-step thing of just like, I'm going to try this door.
00:40:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:40:32
Speaker
None of the organizations feel like it's a fit for them.
00:40:35
Speaker
So I guess we're going to do it through my podcast, which was really funny to explain.
00:40:40
Speaker
Jordan, it's the show.
00:40:42
Speaker
Jordan, who played the ensemble member number nine, the devil in our show, had just graduated from conservatory.
00:40:53
Speaker
And they were like, oh, man, what are you going to do next?
00:40:55
Speaker
He was like, I'm going to do a show that's being put on by my friend's podcast.
00:41:03
Speaker
I was just like, yep, that's about as weird as it sounds.
00:41:09
Speaker
But I kept having ideas of like, oh man, this could do this and we could do this and we could do this and that would be cool and it would be cool.
00:41:18
Speaker
And like I almost started as a nonprofit and then I was like, nope, I don't know if it's supposed to be yet.
00:41:25
Speaker
So I kept pulling back on that and being like, nope, we're just doing the podcast and we're doing the podcast well and we're doing the show and we're doing the show well.
00:41:34
Speaker
And so I got through the show and I like scheduled a spiritual retreat for myself after the show for like a weekend.
00:41:41
Speaker
Um, I was, I went on vacation the week after the show closed.
00:41:44
Speaker
So that was the first thing.
00:41:45
Speaker
And then after I got back like a week later, I did a spiritual retreat.
00:41:49
Speaker
Um, and I was like, I'm not going to think about artists of the way being an organization until this spiritual retreat.
00:41:54
Speaker
And then at this weekend retreat, silent retreat where I'm going off myself, I'm going to figure that out.
00:42:00
Speaker
Um, so I'm going to take a drink of hot chocolate.
00:42:04
Speaker
Are you allowed to hum on silent retreats?
00:42:12
Speaker
Technically, I could, with the one I went to, I didn't go to like a monastery.
00:42:17
Speaker
It was like a, though I do want to go to a monastery sometime for a silent retreat.
00:42:21
Speaker
But it was like a,
00:42:23
Speaker
kind of like a community sort of vibe.
00:42:25
Speaker
They have like several acres of land.
00:42:27
Speaker
And so it was more just like don't approach somebody and just be like, hey, how are you doing?
00:42:31
Speaker
While they're trying to like quietly reflect on the Lord and you're like, let me tell you about my day.
00:42:39
Speaker
So like conversation and stuff, there were people talking around, the staff was talking, but it was like we're creating a space for you to just be silent and present with God if you want.
00:42:48
Speaker
It was called the Hermitage.
00:42:49
Speaker
It was pretty cool.
00:42:50
Speaker
It's cool.
00:42:52
Speaker
So I didn't really think about it.
00:42:55
Speaker
But that's not true.
00:42:58
Speaker
I did think about it a little bit.
00:42:59
Speaker
Because on vacation...
00:43:03
Speaker
I talked to a good friend, Sophia Medawar, who's been on the podcast.
00:43:07
Speaker
She's going to be at Cultivate.
00:43:10
Speaker
I talked to her about Godspell and how that went.
00:43:12
Speaker
And she was like, man, it sounds like you had something really cool there.
00:43:14
Speaker
And we were just kind of unpacking, like, what's the niche?
00:43:18
Speaker
You know, it did theater a little bit differently than some of the Christian theaters in the area do it.
00:43:25
Speaker
It's trying to put itself in a slightly different location.
00:43:27
Speaker
Like, what are the unique opportunities there?
00:43:29
Speaker
And unpacking that.
00:43:30
Speaker
And we're like...
00:43:31
Speaker
this does seem like it's a cool niche thing that opens itself up to some opportunities.
00:43:36
Speaker
So there was a lot of conversation there.
00:43:38
Speaker
Um, my cousin, Anna, who is now our president of the board, she ended up along with several family members, but she ended up, uh, there with us at the end of that vacation.
00:43:47
Speaker
That was when we saw Lord of the Rings, the musical.
00:43:50
Speaker
And so her and I were kind of talking about it and we're like, it is really, it is cool.
00:43:55
Speaker
It feels like there's a lot of unique opportunities with this.
00:43:58
Speaker
Um,
00:43:59
Speaker
So I was like, okay, I'm going to take all this and bring it to the silent retreat.
00:44:02
Speaker
And I just prayed.
00:44:04
Speaker
I don't even remember exactly what God said in that silent retreat.
00:44:07
Speaker
It just felt like it wasn't a no.
00:44:09
Speaker
It was more than fives.
00:44:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:11
Speaker
But it again felt like it wasn't a no.
00:44:13
Speaker
Like it was like,
00:44:14
Speaker
Go step by step and explore it.
00:44:15
Speaker
So I was like, okay, I guess we're still just opening the next door and seeing if it's a cliff or if it's a road.
00:44:22
Speaker
So I asked six, six people, five people to be on my board.
00:44:26
Speaker
We have a sixth person now who's great.
00:44:28
Speaker
I asked five people to be on the board, most of whom I thought would say no.
00:44:32
Speaker
They all said yes.
00:44:33
Speaker
And then we added a sixth person who also said yes.
00:44:38
Speaker
And like, it just sort of,
00:44:40
Speaker
And now it's quite beautifully very out of my hands.
00:44:44
Speaker
This organization is very much.
00:44:47
Speaker
You're not even hosting the podcast.
00:44:49
Speaker
I'm not.
00:44:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:52
Speaker
Now it's it's other people have sort of caught a vision for this thing, the vision for it, and they are taking it and running with it.
00:45:00
Speaker
So now I'm I'm running alongside people in this, which has been really beautiful.
00:45:06
Speaker
We've spent the year really intentionally crafting a
00:45:10
Speaker
Yeah, so much about the organization so that it's set up for success to create a really healthy space to create art and a really intentional place to create art, intentional, emotionally and logistically and spiritually.
00:45:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:27
Speaker
And so, and it's an incredible board.
00:45:30
Speaker
I have sat and continue to believe I would be just as excited to see what this organization was going to be if it was just the six people on our board doing something and I wasn't involved.
00:45:43
Speaker
But it's fleshed out into a beautiful, beautiful thing.
00:45:47
Speaker
I've started sharing some of the programming ideas that I had with the board and we're starting to flesh some of that out.
00:45:53
Speaker
But
00:45:55
Speaker
You asked the why, like what's the mission and vision behind it, which I think is important.
00:46:02
Speaker
The vision, which we spent so long crafting, because there's a very valid question with this organization of like, why?
00:46:08
Speaker
Why?
00:46:09
Speaker
You're another Christian arts theater organization.
00:46:12
Speaker
Oh, Christians doing art again.
00:46:13
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot of it in West Michigan.
00:46:16
Speaker
Some of our board members, when we had our first meeting, were like, OK, we need to answer the question why.
00:46:21
Speaker
They were just like, John, why do you want to do this?
00:46:23
Speaker
Is there a point to doing this?
00:46:26
Speaker
Which I think is a great question.
00:46:27
Speaker
Good question.
00:46:29
Speaker
We had a lot of hashing that out.
00:46:33
Speaker
Over hash browns.
00:46:34
Speaker
Over hash browns.
00:46:34
Speaker
All brunch meetings.
00:46:37
Speaker
But we landed on a vision to equip artists in craft and quality performing arts and to cultivate innovative and creative artistry in a Christlike manner.
00:46:49
Speaker
Equip and cultivate are those two key words.
00:46:54
Speaker
We felt like there was a real gap in serious, intense...
00:47:00
Speaker
education in the craft, not just in the Christian theater world, really just in our theater world in West Michigan in general.
00:47:07
Speaker
You've got Grand Rapids Civic who will do some advanced classes, but for how serious our theater community is, unless you're going to go to GRCC,
00:47:19
Speaker
or a college degree program, there's not a lot of places where they're going to say, we're going to really get down and dirty and intense and really grow in our craft.
00:47:29
Speaker
Amidst all of that, we wanted to be able to build a space for equipping community.
00:47:33
Speaker
The Christian theater world
00:47:35
Speaker
in west michigan is really siloed into several pockets yeah that don't have any bad beef with each other but they just do their own thing and they swim in their own circles yeah i was very blessed by god to get the opportunity to swim in all of those circles somehow and get to know a lot of the leadership pretty well um and so we felt artists of the way was a had a unique opportunity to be a middle ground
00:48:03
Speaker
for people from Master Arts, Homeschool Performing Arts Arise and beyond.
00:48:07
Speaker
You know, we're looking at Alive in Lansing for his Glory Ballet, all these different arts organizations where we're doing the same thing.
00:48:15
Speaker
We're doing it in our little niches that God's called us to.
00:48:18
Speaker
But let's create opportunities to get together and encourage each other and edify each other and refine each other as as Christians and as artists.
00:48:27
Speaker
And then we want to cultivate the kind of art that we want to see artists able to create.
00:48:32
Speaker
We want to create art that is at the highest possible level, that is.
00:48:38
Speaker
moving and challenging and joyful and hilarious and tragic and, you know, stories that are that rich in their script and productions that are refined in both the creating of it and in the performance of it.
00:48:55
Speaker
You know, we want it to feel professional when you go to see it.
00:49:00
Speaker
Um,
00:49:02
Speaker
A, because we think that that honors Godwell.
00:49:04
Speaker
And it's not to say that the other organizations in the area aren't doing that.
00:49:10
Speaker
They're kidding.
00:49:12
Speaker
They are.
00:49:14
Speaker
There is artists of the way and the artists said artists of the way and myself in particular.
00:49:20
Speaker
I am a product of the people who created these organizations.
00:49:26
Speaker
Brad Garnott, Chris McDonald, Walt Williams, CJ Pletcher.
00:49:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:32
Speaker
more and all of them cared very deeply about the highest level of quality possible.
00:49:37
Speaker
So that isn't necessarily unique to us, but we want to create this atmosphere.
00:49:42
Speaker
We're pursuing the art that seriously and treating it as work, not in a bad way, but in a, we're here to do the work that that's core to the culture.
00:49:52
Speaker
Um, you know, we're setting a high bar that we expect you to get to as an actor.
00:49:57
Speaker
And our actors in West Michigan are capable of that.
00:50:01
Speaker
More theater organizations should put the bar up there because we have an insanely talented, insanely skilled theater community.
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:11
Speaker
And so we want to set the bar there and...
00:50:14
Speaker
get artists to that point and give opportunities for artists to create offbeat, innovative, different things that that maybe wouldn't fly somewhere else.
00:50:27
Speaker
But, you know, that you can say, I want to you know, I want to do this weird ballet adaptation of something or I have this original script that I want to create.
00:50:36
Speaker
That's two characters, you know, and I just want it to be these two characters going on this weird adventure.
00:50:41
Speaker
We want to be able to create a space where you can come and see something that's like, wow, that's different and weird.
00:50:48
Speaker
But man, I'm moved or I'm challenged in my faith or I'm edified or that was hilarious and I had a great time.
00:50:55
Speaker
There's a fundamental belief that that is something that God can use and that he values.
00:51:03
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:51:04
Speaker
Yes.
00:51:05
Speaker
And so we want to do it well.
00:51:06
Speaker
And I think that that doesn't mean that you have to sacrifice community or fun to do that.
00:51:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:13
Speaker
The fun in the community comes from doing the work well.
00:51:16
Speaker
Yes.
00:51:18
Speaker
Which is not to say, again, one of my hearts behind this is really trying not to compete with other organizations or making other organizations seem like theirs is lesser and ours is greater because it's not.
00:51:31
Speaker
They're all in different niches that are vitally, vitally important.
00:51:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:38
Speaker
But that's the one where we feel like God's sort of led us to say, these are the things that we're majoring on.
00:51:47
Speaker
And that we feel he wants to be at the forefront for artists of the way.
00:51:52
Speaker
Within all that, community is going to happen.
00:51:54
Speaker
Spiritual formation happens because that happens in the arts.
00:51:57
Speaker
We want to be so intentional about spiritual formation.
00:52:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:02
Speaker
Because it is a director is almost a miniature spiritual leader in so many senses.
00:52:07
Speaker
So we want to be really intentional about that, explore that.
00:52:10
Speaker
Of course, that's part of the podcast is we get to have so many great conversations with artists to just dive right into the spiritual element of creating our art.
00:52:20
Speaker
What is that?
00:52:21
Speaker
It's sort of unknowable, but also we need to know what it is to a degree to
00:52:25
Speaker
do it responsibly.
00:52:28
Speaker
So yeah, I got very vague.
00:52:32
Speaker
That was beautiful.
00:52:33
Speaker
It's also, it's a place for Christians, but also
00:52:36
Speaker
one that you want very welcoming for non-blavers and for them to see what the body of Christ looks like when they might not get the opportunity.
00:52:45
Speaker
A great sort of image in my mind for that has been the role of a priest versus the role of a deacon in the Anglican church.
00:52:56
Speaker
And I believe in most more traditional liturgical churches.
00:53:00
Speaker
So...
00:53:02
Speaker
for a priest is focused on the people of God and equipping the people of God to do ministry.
00:53:08
Speaker
Their focus is their parish, their church, that community.
00:53:11
Speaker
They want to equip them to be ministers in the world.
00:53:14
Speaker
The deacon has one foot in the church and one foot in the world.
00:53:18
Speaker
And the sentence that describes it, which I think is a lovely, beautiful sentence is the deacon invites the deacon,
00:53:29
Speaker
communicates the needs of the world to the church and welcomes members of the world into the church so they are that intermediary where we are the church reaching out to the world and we are also sharing to the church this is what's happening in the world this is what these are the needs that need to be met by the world
00:53:50
Speaker
not even just spiritually all the time, like this community starving, you know, we need to, as the church do something, right?
00:53:57
Speaker
Something like that can be so practical.
00:53:59
Speaker
So that's been sort of an image in my mind of artists of the way has one foot in the church and one foot in the world where we want to create a space.
00:54:09
Speaker
And it's kind of an impossible task to be able to create a space where we can have
00:54:16
Speaker
anyone from any walk of life in the world be able to come and create alongside Christians who hold deeply to their spiritual beliefs.
00:54:25
Speaker
I know that there are people that believe that that's impossible.
00:54:28
Speaker
And honestly, I believe it's impossible.
00:54:30
Speaker
Kind of happened in Godspell.
00:54:31
Speaker
It did.
00:54:32
Speaker
And it only happened because of
00:54:35
Speaker
the spirit of God enabling us to do that because I'm an idiot.
00:54:40
Speaker
If it were down to my calls all the time, that would not be the environment that's being created.
00:54:46
Speaker
But
00:54:48
Speaker
Just a fundamental care for every person that comes into contact with Artists of the Way and a complete submission to God as much as we can to trust him to help us navigate that.
00:55:02
Speaker
But that is a unique thing that Artists of the Way has the opportunity to do.
00:55:06
Speaker
We want to be able to build that community.
00:55:09
Speaker
There's some...
00:55:13
Speaker
there's a lot of views, um, as far as when new people are coming to the church, how do you, who aren't believers?
00:55:20
Speaker
How do you, how do you navigate that?
00:55:22
Speaker
Um, right.
00:55:23
Speaker
You know, secret friendly or right.
00:55:25
Speaker
And like, when do you plug them in?
00:55:27
Speaker
Where do you plug them in?
00:55:28
Speaker
What levels can they like volunteer at?
00:55:30
Speaker
Right.
00:55:30
Speaker
But there's a sentence that I really like, and it, it certainly is a sentence that needs to be nuanced, but w w,
00:55:40
Speaker
it is belong and then believe the idea that the church can be a community where we can say you can come and belong here and then the result of that is belief yeah um right it's not like belong and then maybe you can believe we are embracing people and telling them they belong because we believe that god's going to work through his body to get move somebody into a right relationship with him
00:56:07
Speaker
But but that doesn't mean we have heart.
00:56:09
Speaker
We do the belonging piece half heartedly.
00:56:12
Speaker
We want to create this beautiful community where everybody can be in community together.
00:56:16
Speaker
And it's
00:56:18
Speaker
Yeah, it is an impossible sort of thing, but for God and, and we're praying for that.
00:56:24
Speaker
I'm praying for that.
00:56:25
Speaker
I'm just hope, you know, that's another Lord help thing.
00:56:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:29
Speaker
Like this would be wonderful, but I can't do it on my own.
00:56:32
Speaker
Right.
00:56:32
Speaker
You can.
00:56:34
Speaker
So our prayer is that artist of the way is that, and we think it has a unique opportunity to be that.
00:56:39
Speaker
So may it be so thank you.
00:56:42
Speaker
That was great.
00:56:44
Speaker
Now, um,
00:56:46
Speaker
the next thing artists of the way is doing is the cultivate conference and cultivate one of those two words.
00:56:52
Speaker
It is.
00:56:54
Speaker
And that's happening next.
00:56:57
Speaker
I don't know when this comes out.
00:56:58
Speaker
It's happening on the 18th, Saturday, the 18th.
00:57:01
Speaker
It will be next Saturday.
00:57:02
Speaker
Cause this is coming out this week.
00:57:03
Speaker
It's one of the fastest turnaround times we've had with a podcast.
00:57:06
Speaker
Not the fastest I've recorded and published the same day before.
00:57:09
Speaker
Nice.
00:57:10
Speaker
Um,
00:57:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:57:12
Speaker
Um, I'm so excited about cultivate.
00:57:15
Speaker
People are probably here getting tired of hearing those like five words together.
00:57:19
Speaker
Cause I feel like I say it all the time, but it fits just so beautifully into that mission and vision.
00:57:25
Speaker
And that was the first thing that I thought of when I was like, what more could artists the way be?
00:57:29
Speaker
Uh, the first thing I thought of was, man, it'd be awesome to do a conference.
00:57:35
Speaker
Um,
00:57:37
Speaker
Other podcasts have done conferences.
00:57:38
Speaker
So that was part of why it came into my brain.
00:57:40
Speaker
But it also came into my brain because there used to be conferences from an organization called CETA, Christians in Theater Arts, which is still out there.
00:57:49
Speaker
They just kind of shifted focus.
00:57:51
Speaker
They're kind of in a, I think they're in a rebuilding phase.
00:57:56
Speaker
But they used to provide these great, wonderful training opportunities for Christian theater artists to deepen their experience.
00:58:03
Speaker
their faith and to grow in their craft.
00:58:06
Speaker
And I got to see probably the last conference that they had, at least in the Michigan area, right as I was entering theater.
00:58:14
Speaker
And man, it was great.
00:58:15
Speaker
It was so much fun.
00:58:16
Speaker
And then I learned so much and then it didn't happen again.
00:58:21
Speaker
And I was like, man, that exactly.
00:58:24
Speaker
And the community that I, from the like generation of artists above me,
00:58:30
Speaker
The community that I heard being talked about and the development of craft and faith and outlook on life and the way that they do things that came from those conferences.
00:58:42
Speaker
I was like, man, this is something we need back.
00:58:46
Speaker
We need a neutral space.
00:58:48
Speaker
Where theater artists from every corner, a Christian theater artist, especially, but even just all theater artists, I think would benefit from Cultivate.
00:58:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:56
Speaker
But where Christian theater artists can come together and be like, oh my gosh, you do that thing.
00:59:01
Speaker
I do this thing.
00:59:01
Speaker
Let's talk.
00:59:02
Speaker
We've, you know, we've got a little bit of time.
00:59:03
Speaker
Let's talk.
00:59:04
Speaker
Now let's go to this session together and let's unpack what does it mean to have humility as an artist and to not give into fear.
00:59:11
Speaker
Or I have never studied acting methods before, but I've acted for 20 years, but I would love to take this next step.
00:59:19
Speaker
Let's find out what that's all about.
00:59:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:21
Speaker
You know, or I'm terrified of singing.
00:59:23
Speaker
Let me let me dip my toes into that and learn what does it mean to use my voice?
00:59:30
Speaker
You know, I want to direct.
00:59:32
Speaker
What does that look like?
00:59:34
Speaker
How do I work with kids?
00:59:35
Speaker
They're hard to work with as a director.
00:59:37
Speaker
You know, what do I do?
00:59:41
Speaker
Just having those opportunities to be able to just sit for an hour with undivided attention and just cram it in and take so many notes and learn in this sort of intensive classroom setting.
00:59:56
Speaker
I wouldn't even say classroom, I'd say like classroom laboratory setting where you're like experimenting and you're doing the thing as well.
01:00:03
Speaker
I'm like, that's just missing unless you're paying $150 for a class, which has its place.
01:00:09
Speaker
I've done that and I've loved it.
01:00:10
Speaker
But you're getting so much for the price.
01:00:13
Speaker
Yes.
01:00:17
Speaker
The early bird rate is over.
01:00:21
Speaker
Sorry.
01:00:21
Speaker
It is over.
01:00:22
Speaker
So what are you going to bring that up for, Nate?
01:00:25
Speaker
But the final rate is $24, which is like...
01:00:30
Speaker
Going to a couple of movies.
01:00:32
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:32
Speaker
But this is an all-day conference with so much going on.
01:00:37
Speaker
More than anyone can actually do because there's like two sessions happening at a time.
01:00:42
Speaker
Three sessions every hour.
01:00:44
Speaker
Three every hour.
01:00:45
Speaker
Three except for one hour because we did have somebody who had to back out, unfortunately.
01:00:49
Speaker
But three every hour.
01:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, and it was really on the heart of our leadership team for the conference, which is in its own right, just an amazing team of people.
01:01:00
Speaker
We have Brad Garnott and CJ Pletcher from HPA.
01:01:03
Speaker
Of course, Brad was on the podcast.
01:01:05
Speaker
We have Walt Williams, who's the Artistic Director of Master Arts Theater.
01:01:08
Speaker
And then we have Elizabeth Hawkins, who's from our board and myself.
01:01:11
Speaker
And getting to work with those people is just a dream.
01:01:14
Speaker
But...
01:01:15
Speaker
It was really on their hearts to say, let's just make this as accessible as possible.
01:01:19
Speaker
You know, let's just break even.
01:01:20
Speaker
That's all we've got to do is break even.
01:01:22
Speaker
But let's let's make this accessible for anybody who wants to.
01:01:26
Speaker
Yeah, I hope everybody who is able to comes to this because.
01:01:35
Speaker
I just think we've got such a wonderful lineup and so many wonderful opportunities for deep transformational growth as an artist and as a believer.
01:01:45
Speaker
Um,
01:01:46
Speaker
Like I'm excited, I can't wait to take some of these sessions.
01:01:49
Speaker
Yeah, let me just share what sessions are gonna be there.
01:01:55
Speaker
So the opening session is from Abigail Sabansky.
01:02:01
Speaker
She's a keynote speaker.
01:02:03
Speaker
Yeah, she's from Sight and Sound Theaters.
01:02:06
Speaker
She's talking about the artist's greatest asset, Christ-aligned identity and why it makes all the difference.
01:02:14
Speaker
And then we and real quick on that, because that's a really amazing story.
01:02:17
Speaker
We were trying to figure out how are we opening this conference?
01:02:19
Speaker
We built basically the entire conference and we're like, we have no idea how we're going to open this.
01:02:24
Speaker
We want like an hour long, 45 minute long opening speech.
01:02:27
Speaker
What are we going to do here?
01:02:29
Speaker
And C.J.
01:02:30
Speaker
Pletcher knows Abigail and and was like, I might be able to get this person for our lunch panel, which which I think you'll share about in a second.
01:02:39
Speaker
It was like, I might be able to get her for that.
01:02:42
Speaker
And as they were talking,
01:02:44
Speaker
Abigail was like, this is actually a type of this kind of event is something I've been praying for for years.
01:02:50
Speaker
Really?
01:02:50
Speaker
And I actually have this entire speech worked out that I'd love to do somewhere.
01:02:55
Speaker
And CJ shared what it was.
01:02:57
Speaker
And we're like, that's just the perfect opening speech for this conference.
01:03:02
Speaker
It aligns perfectly with the things we're talking about.
01:03:05
Speaker
Um,
01:03:06
Speaker
So that was just so clearly a work of God to bring that together.
01:03:10
Speaker
So I cannot wait for her speech and her involvement in the conference in general.
01:03:14
Speaker
She's in a couple other things.
01:03:16
Speaker
So excited about that.
01:03:17
Speaker
That's going to be great.
01:03:19
Speaker
And throughout the day, there's three tracks that you can choose.
01:03:22
Speaker
There's an acting track, a director's track, and then a spiritual... Yeah, a faith track.
01:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, and you can bounce between the three every hour, or you can just be like, I'm going to do the faith track, or I'm going to do the acting track or performance track.
01:03:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:39
Speaker
Performance track.
01:03:41
Speaker
Like for music.
01:03:42
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:42
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:44
Speaker
So we have introduction to vocal technique with Brad Garnott.
01:03:49
Speaker
We have design and visual storytelling with Sophia Medawar, like set building, things like that.
01:03:58
Speaker
Fear, creativity, and humility with Craig Apel.
01:04:03
Speaker
Finding your acting method with our own John Wilson right here.
01:04:09
Speaker
Working with young actors with...
01:04:12
Speaker
taught by Abigail Pletcher.
01:04:13
Speaker
So that's a directing one.
01:04:15
Speaker
And then there's the lunch section, which while eating lunch, there'll be a panel discussing faith and acting with some of the presenters that you and I are going to be.
01:04:31
Speaker
Yeah, we're going to co-host it.
01:04:33
Speaker
I'm going to be back as the host of Artists of the Way.
01:04:36
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:36
Speaker
For the conference.
01:04:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:38
Speaker
And then after lunch, we got physical discipline for actors with Dawn Day and and Diana Gustafson.
01:04:46
Speaker
And she and they're like mime artists, right?
01:04:48
Speaker
And so great at the control over their body that they have is incredible.
01:04:52
Speaker
I can't wait.
01:04:53
Speaker
That's what I want to take.
01:04:55
Speaker
So if you want to take one with me.
01:04:56
Speaker
I might do that.
01:04:57
Speaker
Do it.
01:04:59
Speaker
Then we have the heart of assistant directing with CJ Pletcher.
01:05:03
Speaker
The art and spiritual disciplines with Bob Carroll.
01:05:07
Speaker
That sounds interesting.
01:05:08
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:11
Speaker
And a master class then for performers and directors with Brad Garnott, CJ Pletcher, and Walter Williams.
01:05:18
Speaker
That's where some people will get the opportunity to watch directors and
01:05:26
Speaker
direct an actor.
01:05:27
Speaker
Yeah, we have three performers who are presenting and will get direction from those three.
01:05:32
Speaker
So you can either learn from the feedback they give to the performer as a performer yourself.
01:05:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:38
Speaker
Be like, oh, these are good things to look out for.
01:05:40
Speaker
Or if you're trying to figure out, how do I direct actors?
01:05:43
Speaker
Because that's a hard thing to learn.
01:05:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:45
Speaker
We're like, we really feel like you learn that best by just seeing it done and experiencing it.
01:05:51
Speaker
So we're really excited about that one.
01:05:54
Speaker
That's going to be so cool.
01:05:55
Speaker
Then we have another roundtable discussion on artistic challenges.
01:05:59
Speaker
That's where just people can kind of talk with a panel about challenges that they're going through artistically and just bounce thoughts off each other, right?
01:06:08
Speaker
And then at 2.50, there's a dedicated time of prayer.
01:06:13
Speaker
That will be beautiful.
01:06:14
Speaker
And then a closing time of worship and prayer.
01:06:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:18
Speaker
And during that closing time, for any of you musical listeners,
01:06:21
Speaker
stands out there.
01:06:22
Speaker
We're going to also be announcing what our next show is.
01:06:26
Speaker
And I don't know if we're going to release that online immediately.
01:06:29
Speaker
So that might be there.
01:06:31
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:31
Speaker
Got to be there.
01:06:32
Speaker
They're also casting it that day.
01:06:34
Speaker
Right then.
01:06:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:36
Speaker
Raise your hands if you want to be in the show.
01:06:39
Speaker
So it's just going to be great and people should take advantage of this great opportunity and it'll be a great thing for them and also a great thing for Artists of the Way, which is trying to really make a beautiful thing happen in this community.
01:06:53
Speaker
All right, John.
01:06:54
Speaker
Yes.
01:06:55
Speaker
We got something special now.
01:06:56
Speaker
Yes.
01:06:58
Speaker
You shared this with me and I was like, ooh, shaking up the formula.
01:07:00
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:01
Speaker
What is it going to ask?
01:07:01
Speaker
We have...
01:07:03
Speaker
A new segment that will last at least through today.
01:07:08
Speaker
Cue the segment music.
01:07:10
Speaker
We're back.
01:07:11
Speaker
Good job, Bob.
01:07:12
Speaker
Great segment music.
01:07:14
Speaker
Got some rapid fire questions for you.
01:07:16
Speaker
These ones I don't know at all.
01:07:18
Speaker
He doesn't know what's coming.
01:07:21
Speaker
And you just got to be ready to answer with your heart.
01:07:24
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:25
Speaker
And that's it.
01:07:26
Speaker
I need to embrace the Meisner method and just go with my spontaneous reaction.
01:07:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:30
Speaker
Ready?
01:07:31
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:07:32
Speaker
Star Wars or Lord of the Rings?
01:07:33
Speaker
Lord of the Rings.
01:07:34
Speaker
Nice.
01:07:34
Speaker
Oh, that hurts.
01:07:36
Speaker
It's true, but it hurts.
01:07:39
Speaker
Marvel or DC?
01:07:41
Speaker
I can't choose.
01:07:43
Speaker
I can't.
01:07:44
Speaker
I thought that'd be a hard one for you.
01:07:46
Speaker
I mean, I'm a comic fan, so that's a question that's been asked me for years, and I refuse to partake in the comic wars, which I think a lot of comic fans do, but I love them both so much.
01:07:57
Speaker
I won't choose between Lord of the Rings and Star Wars that was deeply, both of them deeply influential to me.
01:08:04
Speaker
But these comics that I kind of like, I should be released.
01:08:08
Speaker
It's the principle of the thing.
01:08:11
Speaker
Lewis or Tolkien?
01:08:12
Speaker
Tolkien.
01:08:12
Speaker
Really?
01:08:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:14
Speaker
Okay.
01:08:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:15
Speaker
Why Tolkien?
01:08:17
Speaker
I just like his art better than Lewis.
01:08:20
Speaker
And I find theology that is packed into something more poetic and abstract and such a little bit more engaging.
01:08:35
Speaker
I like mining the seeds of Tolkien's theology from...
01:08:40
Speaker
what is there in his story and in his art.
01:08:44
Speaker
I also love theology, clearly.
01:08:47
Speaker
I have a ministry leadership degree, which started as a biblical studies degree.
01:08:51
Speaker
So most of the books that I own are theology books.
01:08:54
Speaker
But if I had to pick, I would pick an artistic rendition that is deeply theological.
01:09:00
Speaker
So also Tolkien is just a little bit more the kind of artist I aspire to be.
01:09:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:05
Speaker
So, yeah.
01:09:06
Speaker
Lewis is great.
01:09:07
Speaker
Love Lewis.
01:09:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:08
Speaker
Again, that's like a Star Wars Lord of the Rings one.
01:09:10
Speaker
Right.
01:09:11
Speaker
Right.
01:09:11
Speaker
Which is the exact same because Lewis did Star Wars and Tolkien did Lord of the Rings.
01:09:16
Speaker
That's right.
01:09:17
Speaker
That's right.
01:09:18
Speaker
He did do his Star Wars.
01:09:20
Speaker
No, he didn't.
01:09:20
Speaker
The Space Trilogy.
01:09:21
Speaker
Oh, that's true.
01:09:22
Speaker
He did.
01:09:22
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:22
Speaker
I've been corrected.
01:09:25
Speaker
Which you have not read.
01:09:25
Speaker
I was just lying.
01:09:26
Speaker
I haven't read it.
01:09:28
Speaker
And so I'd be interested to hear what you think.
01:09:30
Speaker
It is not the same kind of art.
01:09:34
Speaker
as Tolkien.
01:09:35
Speaker
I spent on my list for a while but I haven't owned it for at all so.
01:09:39
Speaker
Oh really?
01:09:39
Speaker
Yeah so still working on it.
01:09:41
Speaker
It's getting into birthday and Christmas season.
01:09:44
Speaker
Oh that's true that's true true true.
01:09:46
Speaker
So as an audience member I'll say.
01:09:49
Speaker
Those are some of my favorites after the Ransom trilogy.
01:09:52
Speaker
All right this is a fun one.
01:09:55
Speaker
You need to cast a drama comedy action flick
01:10:01
Speaker
Who is your Fab Five dream team of actors for this blockbuster?
01:10:06
Speaker
Oh, gosh.
01:10:07
Speaker
Of like famous actors or actors that I know.
01:10:12
Speaker
Famous actors.
01:10:12
Speaker
Famous actors?
01:10:14
Speaker
Goodness me.
01:10:15
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
01:10:16
Speaker
Hang on.
01:10:17
Speaker
What's the genre?
01:10:18
Speaker
It's a drama comedy action flick.
01:10:21
Speaker
Okay.
01:10:22
Speaker
Jeez.
01:10:23
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that takes too much thought for a lightning round.
01:10:26
Speaker
Holy crap.
01:10:27
Speaker
You can change it later.
01:10:29
Speaker
He doesn't have to be locked in forever.
01:10:31
Speaker
Well, I like Chris Evans a lot, so I'll pick him.
01:10:34
Speaker
Okay, we got Chris Evans.
01:10:35
Speaker
Oh my goodness gracious.
01:10:38
Speaker
He can do all three of those things.
01:10:40
Speaker
Drama, comedy, and action.
01:10:41
Speaker
Jeez.
01:10:42
Speaker
Like all the actors are flying from my brain.
01:10:45
Speaker
I just watched Tron Legacy and really enjoyed Jeff Bridges in it again, so I'm going to pick Jeff Bridges just because he's fun.
01:10:50
Speaker
And good.
01:10:51
Speaker
Um...
01:10:53
Speaker
Oh, who's an actor that I feel like can do more?
01:10:55
Speaker
Because a lot of times I watch actors and I'm like, you can do more if you're given the right material.
01:10:59
Speaker
Ooh, yes.
01:11:00
Speaker
You'll get to direct them.
01:11:01
Speaker
I know.
01:11:02
Speaker
Oh, gosh.
01:11:03
Speaker
Who would I love to direct?
01:11:04
Speaker
Jeez, Louise.
01:11:06
Speaker
My word.
01:11:06
Speaker
I don't know.
01:11:09
Speaker
Oh, man.
01:11:10
Speaker
I don't know.
01:11:10
Speaker
I'm like blanking on actors now.
01:11:13
Speaker
Chris Pine.
01:11:14
Speaker
I love Chris Pine.
01:11:15
Speaker
Let's throw Chris Pine in.
01:11:17
Speaker
I need some women.
01:11:18
Speaker
I need women.
01:11:18
Speaker
I have five, six.
01:11:19
Speaker
You have five.
01:11:20
Speaker
I have five.
01:11:20
Speaker
You've got three down.
01:11:22
Speaker
Okay.
01:11:22
Speaker
I need women next then.
01:11:23
Speaker
It's got to just be women.
01:11:27
Speaker
Oh, golly gee willikers.
01:11:31
Speaker
This is a hard question.
01:11:33
Speaker
Oh, gosh.
01:11:37
Speaker
Oh, no.
01:11:38
Speaker
Again, I'm just not thinking of the actors that I admire.
01:11:50
Speaker
You know, I haven't seen Emma Watson do anything in a while and I've just been watching the Harry Potter movies and she's just a really great actress and I think could benefit from just a really nice healthy working environment which I would hopefully foster.
01:12:02
Speaker
So I'll pick Emma Watson.
01:12:03
Speaker
This would be so good for her.
01:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, we'll throw her in.
01:12:06
Speaker
And then...
01:12:09
Speaker
Hmm goodness me.
01:12:12
Speaker
I also have it doesn't have because I also have the dialogue in my brain of like John you're taking too long taking too long.
01:12:17
Speaker
I know that you're just thinking about that.
01:12:18
Speaker
I know.
01:12:19
Speaker
Okay.
01:12:21
Speaker
Zoe Saldana.
01:12:22
Speaker
She's great.
01:12:23
Speaker
Most of her movies make a billion dollars.
01:12:26
Speaker
They do.
01:12:27
Speaker
So she's made more money than anything right.
01:12:29
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:29
Speaker
I think she's the actor that's been in the most billion dollar movies.
01:12:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:34
Speaker
So let's throw her in there.
01:12:35
Speaker
She's always great.
01:12:35
Speaker
She was in Pirates of the Caribbean.
01:12:37
Speaker
She was, yes.
01:12:38
Speaker
She's in Star Trek.
01:12:40
Speaker
She's in Avatar.
01:12:42
Speaker
Avatar and Guardians and Avengers.
01:12:47
Speaker
She's good.
01:12:48
Speaker
There was an internet thing that Shay found that's become a slang in our household, which is they always understand the assignment, no matter what role they get.
01:12:56
Speaker
It's just like they know.
01:12:57
Speaker
And most of those actors, Chris Pine, Zoe Saldana.
01:13:00
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:01
Speaker
Oh, no, I forgot who my third man was.
01:13:03
Speaker
I had Chris Pine, Chris Evans.
01:13:05
Speaker
Who is the other guy?
01:13:06
Speaker
Oh, Jeff Bridges.
01:13:07
Speaker
Jeff Bridges.
01:13:08
Speaker
You know, I feel like Jeff Bridges always understands the assignment.
01:13:11
Speaker
Like, is he a hippie?
01:13:12
Speaker
Yeah, but like.
01:13:13
Speaker
I don't know about Emma Watson.
01:13:15
Speaker
No, but she's so authentic, which is what you want in an actor.
01:13:19
Speaker
Like emotionally, she will just, I think she'll just let herself go out there emotionally.
01:13:25
Speaker
Um, the things I've seen with her as an adult, great.
01:13:29
Speaker
Well, we're going to push her.
01:13:30
Speaker
It's going to be great.
01:13:30
Speaker
We're going to help her.
01:13:31
Speaker
Cause she's, she, yeah, I think she's, I think she's got, okay.
01:13:34
Speaker
She's got it.
01:13:36
Speaker
All right.
01:13:36
Speaker
Good job.
01:13:37
Speaker
That was hard.
01:13:38
Speaker
That was hard.
01:13:38
Speaker
That was the hardest question.
01:13:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:41
Speaker
I was, I was, I'm doubting myself completely.
01:13:43
Speaker
We can talk about it more later.
01:13:45
Speaker
Idris Elba.
01:13:46
Speaker
Oh no.
01:13:46
Speaker
Idris Elba is great.
01:13:48
Speaker
Oh yeah.
01:13:49
Speaker
I might replace Chris Evans with Idris Elba.
01:13:52
Speaker
Idris Elba is great.
01:13:53
Speaker
Oh, and I love Chris Evans, but no, I'm going to do it.
01:13:55
Speaker
I'm going to put.
01:13:55
Speaker
You're out, Chris.
01:13:56
Speaker
We're going to have it, Chris.
01:13:57
Speaker
Oh, but John Cena has also become an amazing actor.
01:14:00
Speaker
Has he?
01:14:01
Speaker
Yes, he has.
01:14:02
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
01:14:03
Speaker
He's in movies that I would not recommend our audience watch.
01:14:07
Speaker
He's in an episode of Psych.
01:14:09
Speaker
The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker, which I would never recommend any of our audience watch.
01:14:13
Speaker
Oh, right.
01:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, he's happy.
01:14:14
Speaker
Yeah, he's.
01:14:14
Speaker
Even though The Suicide Squad is an amazingly redemptive movie, I think, but I also am not sure that, even though it's amazingly redemptive, I'm not sure that it is redemptive enough to quite surpass the crudeness of its humor or its gore for most people.
01:14:30
Speaker
For me, it is.
01:14:31
Speaker
But John Cena has floored me in his acting ability.
01:14:35
Speaker
Wow.
01:14:37
Speaker
Although Dave Bautista is really good.
01:14:38
Speaker
But he's... Oh, yes.
01:14:39
Speaker
Because I was going to say he might be the best, like...
01:14:43
Speaker
wrestler to actor but he's just he's just so much better than you would expect that he would be he's really found a great vulnerability and authenticity and I need to stop rambling so you can stay a lightning round slowly hitting earth the lightning is alright next question who nope that's the question after that
01:15:13
Speaker
A different proposition.
01:15:14
Speaker
What's your favorite fruit of the spirit?
01:15:19
Speaker
Shay and I were literally... No.
01:15:22
Speaker
It was yesterday.
01:15:23
Speaker
No.
01:15:25
Speaker
No, that was this morning.
01:15:27
Speaker
What?
01:15:27
Speaker
I was sitting with Arthur and doing daily prayer and I was reading.
01:15:30
Speaker
as you do if you're doing daily prayer from the Book of Common Prayer because there's a Bible.
01:15:36
Speaker
I over-explained that, but she thought I was reading the fruit of the Spirit and I wasn't.
01:15:38
Speaker
But then she asked Arthur what his favorite fruit of the Spirit was.
01:15:41
Speaker
What?
01:15:42
Speaker
Oh, man, but I don't know.
01:15:44
Speaker
Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
01:15:49
Speaker
I really like gentleness.
01:15:51
Speaker
I think that that's a virtue that's not as prized, although I think it's more prized after Superman.
01:16:00
Speaker
came out but generally i don't think that uh gentleness is super prized in our world okay it's very important lovely um if i had to pick the problem i i mean i just picked gentleness but i feel like theologically i should pick love it's the greatest because it is the greatest of these but you're going with your gut that's okay gentleness is just my homie all right it's my little friend follow-up question yeah what's your least favorite fruit of the spirit
01:16:25
Speaker
Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness.
01:16:28
Speaker
Patience.
01:16:29
Speaker
Okay.
01:16:29
Speaker
I'm not a very patient person.
01:16:31
Speaker
Nice.
01:16:32
Speaker
You did well with that question.
01:16:33
Speaker
Thanks.
01:16:34
Speaker
All right.
01:16:34
Speaker
I didn't even get through all of them.
01:16:36
Speaker
I got past patience and I was like, oh, you son of a gun.
01:16:39
Speaker
Now the patience is the end of the list.
01:16:43
Speaker
All right.
Discussion: Favorite Apostle and Personal Reflections
01:16:45
Speaker
What?
01:16:46
Speaker
No, we did that.
01:16:47
Speaker
Who?
01:16:49
Speaker
When?
01:16:50
Speaker
Where?
01:16:51
Speaker
Why?
01:16:52
Speaker
Who's your favorite apostle?
01:16:55
Speaker
Oh.
01:16:57
Speaker
That's an interesting question.
01:16:58
Speaker
Thank you.
01:17:01
Speaker
Man.
01:17:07
Speaker
I mean, it's basic, but Peter's just all of us.
01:17:13
Speaker
I don't think that's basic.
01:17:14
Speaker
That wouldn't have been my go-to.
01:17:16
Speaker
Go on.
01:17:17
Speaker
I do like John a lot, but Peter's just so pig-headed, and I feel like I can be pig-headed, and he's so ambitious, and I feel like I can be ambitious.
01:17:27
Speaker
He's so stressed, and I'm like, I'm also stressed.
01:17:34
Speaker
I don't know.
01:17:36
Speaker
I vibe with Peter because I feel like Peter...
01:17:39
Speaker
is like me where he's like, I can be Jesus.
01:17:43
Speaker
Not like the Messiah, but like, I can kind of do that thing.
01:17:47
Speaker
And then it's like, oh, no, I can't.
01:17:50
Speaker
You know, I can walk on the water and does a little bit, but then he's like, oh my gosh, I'm freaking out here.
01:17:56
Speaker
No, I think that really lines with you well.
01:17:59
Speaker
You know, the passage of,
01:18:04
Speaker
that talks about Peter, like, and on this rock, I will build my church.
01:18:09
Speaker
I think my pastor explained it.
01:18:12
Speaker
That was interesting.
01:18:14
Speaker
Right before Jesus said that was when he was asking the disciples, who do the people say I am?
01:18:21
Speaker
Okay, okay, this, that, and the other.
01:18:24
Speaker
Well, who do you say I am?
01:18:25
Speaker
And Peter said, you are the Christ, the Son of God, or whatever.
01:18:31
Speaker
And Jesus said, and you are Peter, and on this rock, I will build my church.
01:18:40
Speaker
And a lot of people think, okay, this rock, that's Peter.
01:18:42
Speaker
But my pastor thinks that this rock is that confession that you made that Jesus is Christ.
01:18:51
Speaker
It is on that that Jesus is built.
01:18:54
Speaker
his church and peter doesn't really mean rock it means like little rock right and but he gets to facilitate right the big the big rock at it kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier about we just really need god to do the things that he's going to do while we're wanting that to happen right but we're not big enough to make it happen ourself and i feel like i vibe with
01:19:22
Speaker
Peter, one of his strengths is also his greatest weakness of like, he just goes like, he like full sends it as the kids would say, you know?
01:19:31
Speaker
Like he's gonna be like, no hesitation.
01:19:34
Speaker
Jesus is like, who do you think I am?
01:19:35
Speaker
You're the Messiah, like immediately.
01:19:37
Speaker
It's like, what amazing faith.
01:19:39
Speaker
Have me come out on the water with you.
01:19:41
Speaker
Right, and then at the same time, he's like,
01:19:44
Speaker
listen man we should like get you elected king you know like listen we've got to build tents and just stay here because this is great you know and i vibe with that where it's just like man i just have such intense reactions like immediately and sometimes those are great and sometimes man what the hot messes but then he also like repents hard too yeah i don't i i try to i think i do
01:20:13
Speaker
All right.
01:20:13
Speaker
Final question.
01:20:14
Speaker
Oh boy.
01:20:15
Speaker
What do you want people to say about you when you're gone?
01:20:20
Speaker
Oh, just hopefully that I did what God wanted me to do.
01:20:25
Speaker
What's that?
01:20:27
Speaker
I don't know.
01:20:27
Speaker
Whatever God wanted me to do.
01:20:29
Speaker
Um, yeah, I don't know.
01:20:35
Speaker
Probably just that.
01:20:36
Speaker
I just,
01:20:37
Speaker
I don't know.
01:20:38
Speaker
You're obedient.
01:20:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:39
Speaker
I've just gotten so caught up in like, what could my life and legacy be in the past?
01:20:43
Speaker
Oh.
01:20:44
Speaker
And it's just exhausting.
01:20:46
Speaker
You know?
01:20:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:49
Speaker
Like, I feel like I'm almost exhausted right now just thinking about it.
01:20:52
Speaker
Like, I'm just like, I just want to let all of that go and just whatever God wants to have happened in my life, let that be what happened in my life.
01:20:58
Speaker
That's a good answer.
01:20:59
Speaker
That's a good answer.
Conclusion and Farewell
01:21:00
Speaker
Thanks.
01:21:00
Speaker
It just, it feels like it's more just a desperate cry for Jesus to take the wheel.
01:21:05
Speaker
That's...
01:21:06
Speaker
where we should be.
01:21:07
Speaker
It is.
01:21:08
Speaker
It'll get you a popular song.
01:21:09
Speaker
That's what we want.
01:21:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:21:11
Speaker
It's a popular song.
01:21:12
Speaker
That's all you want out of life, man.
01:21:14
Speaker
Well, John, thanks for coming to your house today.
01:21:16
Speaker
I feel so like puffed up because this is like an hour and a half episode.
01:21:21
Speaker
I'm like, oh yes, now that it's me, we'll let it go.
01:21:25
Speaker
Although I will point out I'm not hosting this, so I also didn't cut off the time.
01:21:29
Speaker
That's right.
01:21:30
Speaker
That was my job.
01:21:30
Speaker
So I watched the time ticking by and I had no control to end it.
01:21:34
Speaker
That's right.
01:21:37
Speaker
Thank you for coming on.
01:21:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:21:38
Speaker
It was great.
01:21:39
Speaker
It was a nice short walk.
01:21:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:21:41
Speaker
And your vision for the organization.
01:21:43
Speaker
Thank you.
01:21:44
Speaker
It was really great.
01:21:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:21:46
Speaker
Being on this podcast.
01:21:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:21:48
Speaker
You like this podcast.
01:21:49
Speaker
It's all right.
01:21:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:21:52
Speaker
Bye.