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Self-Sacrifice, Family, and Connection in the Arts with Cole and Sarah Grace Groot
116 Plays4 months ago
In this episode Jon and Nate discuss what it looks like to balance art and a family. How do your priorities shift? How do you make it part of your family, and what about art makes it worth doing, even when it's hard.
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Transcript
Welcome and Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome back to Artists of the Way.
00:00:02
Speaker
I'm John.
00:00:03
Speaker
And I'm Nate.
00:00:04
Speaker
You are Nate.
00:00:06
Speaker
And today, well welcome to the podcast.
00:00:08
Speaker
I should welcome you in first.
00:00:10
Speaker
Come on in.
00:00:11
Speaker
Come on in.
00:00:11
Speaker
The fire's going.
00:00:12
Speaker
We have customer... That's the fire sound.
00:00:17
Speaker
That sounds like a slurping fire.
00:00:20
Speaker
It is.
00:00:21
Speaker
It's drinking a slushie.
00:00:23
Speaker
Nice.
00:00:24
Speaker
I had a slushie last night.
00:00:25
Speaker
You did?
00:00:26
Speaker
Was it?
00:00:26
Speaker
It wasn't very slushie.
00:00:27
Speaker
Oh, well, sad.
00:00:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:30
Speaker
But today, we have Cole and Sarah Grace Groot on a podcast, which we were supposed to do right before Arthur arrived.
00:00:37
Speaker
And then it actually wasn't Arthur's arrival.
00:00:38
Speaker
It was something else that...
00:00:40
Speaker
prevented us from doing it but they're here now yeah we are here and they are here and we're having a great conversation about art and family what it looks like to keep pursuing specifically theater that's that's what we're talking about but it applies it applies to i think to finger painting get your kids involved in the
00:01:01
Speaker
But yes, we talk about art is such an important part of their family culture, and they've generally maintained a steady rhythm of doing it since they've had children.
00:01:11
Speaker
And so we just wanted to pick their brains and talk about what does that look like?
00:01:14
Speaker
What's it look like to make that a part of your family culture?
00:01:18
Speaker
How do you prioritize that while also keeping your kids and your family central?
Integrating Art into Family Culture
00:01:23
Speaker
And what does that all look like?
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, I've been in lots of shows with the Groots for the past nine years, and they always are bringing their kids along and stuff.
00:01:32
Speaker
And now that I have a family and you have a family, I want to hear, okay, how do you keep doing art and having a family?
00:01:40
Speaker
Or can you as much?
00:01:42
Speaker
Or what are some of the things to be aware of?
00:01:46
Speaker
And so we covered some of that, and it was really nice.
00:01:49
Speaker
Yeah, it was a really good conversation.
00:01:51
Speaker
Lots of great insights, and I'm excited to share with you guys.
00:01:54
Speaker
Enjoy.
00:01:59
Speaker
I'm curious first if you guys can just share a little bit about yourselves and particularly your background as artists for any audience members who don't know you guys.
00:02:09
Speaker
You
Sarah Grace's Dance Journey
00:02:10
Speaker
first.
00:02:13
Speaker
Background as artists, I...
00:02:15
Speaker
love how I got into dancing because I shouldn't have gotten into dancing because I started because my mom put me in ballet when I was really little because I had a really weak ankle so I would stand there and the ankle bones would roll down to the floor and so our doctor was like do something with her that gets her ankle stronger my mom was like well dance so she put me in it and we loved it loved it and so
00:02:39
Speaker
That's how I started.
00:02:40
Speaker
Here you are.
00:02:41
Speaker
I love that, though, because it's like it was an actual, like, weakness.
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:45
Speaker
Like, it wasn't, like, something, like, I don't know.
00:02:48
Speaker
Oh, she's so good at this.
00:02:49
Speaker
We should press into that.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, God used, like, something that was actually, like, a weak area.
00:02:55
Speaker
And anyways, since then.
00:02:58
Speaker
took off.
00:02:59
Speaker
That's sweet.
00:03:00
Speaker
And you've been doing dance like forever since then.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:04
Speaker
I started, it was just like a one day a week thing, little ballet, jazz and tap class.
00:03:08
Speaker
And then, um, we were living in Tennessee.
00:03:10
Speaker
We moved to Michigan and I really started liking it more.
00:03:14
Speaker
And so I started pursuing it mostly full time in high school.
00:03:18
Speaker
Um, so I danced mostly ballet, but I went a bunch of different places and summer intensives and then I trained some
00:03:26
Speaker
Circus Arts in Florida for a season, which was really fun.
00:03:29
Speaker
Oh, that sounds fun.
00:03:31
Speaker
It was so fun.
00:03:32
Speaker
You did ballet for an hour, and then you did aerial arts for an hour, and then you did gymnastics for an hour.
00:03:39
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
00:03:39
Speaker
It was so fun.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah, they were really neat.
00:03:41
Speaker
It was a cool company.
00:03:42
Speaker
But anyways, yeah, I came back here.
00:03:44
Speaker
I've been teaching.
00:03:45
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say you taught quite a bit.
00:03:47
Speaker
Yeah, I started teaching in high school because I loved kids, too.
00:03:50
Speaker
That was my passion.
00:03:51
Speaker
I just loved being with kids.
00:03:52
Speaker
Sure.
00:03:53
Speaker
So I started my own little school,
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Speaker
When I was in high school.
00:03:56
Speaker
My mom helped me as part of homeschool.
00:03:58
Speaker
So it was like a business credit.
00:04:00
Speaker
Go start a school.
00:04:02
Speaker
Go start a business.
00:04:03
Speaker
My mom helped me a ton.
00:04:04
Speaker
She was awesome.
00:04:05
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:04:06
Speaker
That is so cool.
00:04:07
Speaker
I support you.
00:04:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:09
Speaker
So are you mostly choreographing and things like that now?
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:13
Speaker
With Cole, we do stuff together mostly now.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:18
Speaker
I haven't done anything on my own for a while actually.
00:04:21
Speaker
How does that make you feel?
00:04:23
Speaker
Give me some space.
00:04:28
Speaker
No, I've been doing so much lately.
00:04:29
Speaker
I feel like, yeah, it's been a busy season for theater.
Cole's Path to Theater
00:04:34
Speaker
But I love it.
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:35
Speaker
It's been fun.
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:37
Speaker
How'd you get into the arts?
00:04:39
Speaker
Well, it probably starts with music lessons.
00:04:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:43
Speaker
My mom got us.
00:04:44
Speaker
My mom had my older brother taking piano lessons, and I begged her to let me take piano lessons, too.
00:04:50
Speaker
So eventually we did that.
00:04:52
Speaker
And then my mom saw an ad in our local newspaper for homeschool drama classes.
00:04:59
Speaker
And she didn't ask us.
00:05:01
Speaker
She just signed us up.
00:05:03
Speaker
And my older brother and I were quite upset about that.
00:05:05
Speaker
Why?
00:05:06
Speaker
We didn't want to do any theater stuff.
00:05:08
Speaker
That was dumb.
00:05:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:10
Speaker
I think I was, I think I was, I think I was 10.
00:05:12
Speaker
So yeah, you know, it wasn't the cool thing to do.
00:05:15
Speaker
And we had, we really didn't have much exposure to it.
00:05:18
Speaker
So, you know, we didn't know how awesome it could be.
00:05:21
Speaker
So of course, after the first day, we were ready to go back the next week.
00:05:24
Speaker
Yeah, it was the best thing ever.
00:05:26
Speaker
It was a lot of fun.
00:05:27
Speaker
So.
00:05:27
Speaker
So yeah, I really followed through.
00:05:30
Speaker
That was a start with Homeschool Performing Arts.
00:05:33
Speaker
Followed through with that.
00:05:34
Speaker
Graduated from Homeschool Performing Arts.
00:05:37
Speaker
Started working for Homeschool Performing Arts right away.
00:05:39
Speaker
That's where you and I met.
00:05:40
Speaker
That's where you and I met.
00:05:41
Speaker
We were in shows together in high school.
00:05:44
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:05:45
Speaker
Well, you were in their very first show, and we were in their very second show together.
00:05:49
Speaker
Nice.
00:05:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, they did musicals.
00:05:52
Speaker
What was the first show that you guys were in together?
00:05:55
Speaker
Music Man.
00:05:57
Speaker
And then Titanic.
00:05:57
Speaker
And then we were in Titanic together.
00:06:01
Speaker
That show is beautiful.
00:06:02
Speaker
Did you survive?
00:06:03
Speaker
Nope.
00:06:05
Speaker
I survived.
00:06:05
Speaker
Nah.
00:06:10
Speaker
I know.
00:06:10
Speaker
Third class, how did that happen?
00:06:13
Speaker
Whoa!
00:06:13
Speaker
You know, it was really... We should have gone for sure.
00:06:16
Speaker
That was great.
00:06:17
Speaker
We were acquaintances in high school.
00:06:20
Speaker
You hung out with my older brother more than you hung out with me, so... But we knew of each other.
00:06:25
Speaker
We had fun.
00:06:26
Speaker
I actually hung out with your older sister more than...
00:06:29
Speaker
We both hung out with each other's older.
00:06:31
Speaker
Exactly.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yes.
00:06:32
Speaker
So anyway, after high school, you moved to Miami, so we didn't have much together, but your sister stayed here and your sister and I worked for, um, homeschool performing arts for, uh, quite a few years together.
00:06:44
Speaker
And then when you moved back, then you started dragged me in.
00:06:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:49
Speaker
I directed Elizabeth assistant directed.
00:06:52
Speaker
I didn't work with you guys though.
00:06:53
Speaker
At first I was studying Grand Rapids.
00:06:54
Speaker
Sarah Grace choreographed.
00:06:55
Speaker
For a while.
00:06:56
Speaker
And I did a couple shows with that.
00:06:57
Speaker
And then we dragged you over to Lansing Chapel.
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:00
Speaker
It was fun.
00:07:01
Speaker
So, and around that time your sister got married and then you and I were.
00:07:06
Speaker
We continued.
00:07:07
Speaker
We were, we were still, the three of us were still working, but Elizabeth had moved to Ionia area.
00:07:14
Speaker
So she was driving separately.
00:07:15
Speaker
And I went, she just left Sarah and I to drive back and forth to Lansing.
00:07:19
Speaker
With nothing to talk about.
00:07:20
Speaker
Exactly.
00:07:21
Speaker
I mean,
00:07:22
Speaker
What did they expect was going to happen, you know?
00:07:27
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:07:28
Speaker
So, here we are.
00:07:28
Speaker
Married.
Transitioning Careers and Creative Projects
00:07:30
Speaker
Nice.
00:07:30
Speaker
Almost 12 years.
00:07:31
Speaker
Nice.
00:07:33
Speaker
With three kids.
00:07:35
Speaker
And in that time, well, I guess I should back up.
00:07:39
Speaker
I taught for...
00:07:42
Speaker
HPA, I taught for Caledonia High School, I taught for Triunity Christian School in the area, did all of their theater programs for a number of years, and then decided it was time to get serious and have a real job.
00:07:55
Speaker
How's that going?
00:07:58
Speaker
I love it.
00:08:02
Speaker
My dad had always had the plumbing business, so that was an easy slide into, and a blessing to be a part of, for sure.
00:08:10
Speaker
So started doing that right around the time we got married.
00:08:14
Speaker
And then, then theater actually became a little more fun because it was just more of a hobby.
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:19
Speaker
Rather than a job.
00:08:20
Speaker
I still taught dance for a while after we got married.
00:08:23
Speaker
Yeah, you taught dance for a number of years after we got married.
00:08:26
Speaker
Hearts and stuff.
00:08:27
Speaker
And I think just hearts and stuff at that point.
00:08:29
Speaker
It was just hearts and stuff.
00:08:30
Speaker
And then I did my own thing with Narnia.
00:08:32
Speaker
Yeah, you did that a lot of times.
00:08:33
Speaker
We did Narnia a lot.
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah, that was really fun.
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:35
Speaker
You were in that.
00:08:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:37
Speaker
A whole time.
00:08:38
Speaker
How did that Narnia ballet come about?
00:08:41
Speaker
How did that spring into life?
00:08:43
Speaker
Specifically Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, right?
00:08:46
Speaker
Specifically Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.
00:08:49
Speaker
Yes.
00:08:49
Speaker
I'm trying to think.
00:08:51
Speaker
I had a smaller group of high school age girls.
00:08:56
Speaker
who we were just kind of dancing together.
00:08:59
Speaker
Like we were putting just choreography together and we would go to different churches or events and things and just like perform.
00:09:05
Speaker
It was kind of like just a fun little touring dance troupe, I guess.
00:09:10
Speaker
And then I got...
00:09:13
Speaker
I just had the idea.
00:09:14
Speaker
I was like, I've always wanted to do Narnia Isabella.
00:09:15
Speaker
I think that would be so cool.
00:09:17
Speaker
And the girls that we had, we had like the exact amount to like actually make the show happen.
00:09:22
Speaker
And so I was like, let's just do it.
00:09:24
Speaker
And we did it.
00:09:24
Speaker
It was like a nonprofit.
00:09:26
Speaker
We did it as a fundraiser for a ministry that was an orphanage in India, actually at the time, Thomas Smallhagen.
00:09:33
Speaker
And so I connected with him.
00:09:35
Speaker
And so Cornerstone let us just do it at their facility for free because we wanted to use it as a blessing.
00:09:42
Speaker
So it was so fun.
00:09:43
Speaker
That's kind of how it started.
00:09:44
Speaker
And then it ended up staying that way because I ended up going to China for a bunch of years and working with orphans.
00:09:49
Speaker
And so we always used it as a fundraiser just to like bless other ministries.
00:09:53
Speaker
So it kind of was like, I don't know, not, I mean, it was something I didn't really end up paying for because it was like we could,
Current Productions and Family Involvement
00:10:00
Speaker
it was just ended up being a blessing all the way around.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:03
Speaker
And so we've done it a few different ways.
00:10:05
Speaker
Like we've done some really giant versions of it where we did like a two week intensive with kids and
00:10:10
Speaker
put it on in two weeks and then we've done versions with all adults really not really all adults again a combination but yeah anyways just touring like right after covid we did a really small version of it where we had a smaller group of us and we would just go to churches and events and it was really fun so that was i think we've done that like at least 15 times yeah 15 different versions of it so it all kind of runs together in my head i miss it people are like we're gonna do it again i'm like i want to do it again it's just there's so many other things going on so
00:10:39
Speaker
It will come back.
00:10:39
Speaker
I said, Aslan always blows his wind.
00:10:43
Speaker
It just kind of comes.
00:10:45
Speaker
We have all these bins of Narnia gear in our shed and it's like, it'll come back.
00:10:51
Speaker
Aslan will blow again.
00:10:54
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:10:55
Speaker
So what things are you working on right now?
00:10:58
Speaker
What are those things that are keeping you guys busy?
00:11:00
Speaker
We have two productions we're working on right now.
00:11:02
Speaker
One is in middle production, one's still in the early stages, but we're working with Master Arts Theater, doing Pirates of Penzance, the musical there.
00:11:11
Speaker
That is probably taking up the most of our time right now, but yeah, it's community theater, you know, just a great space.
00:11:18
Speaker
We have such a good cast.
00:11:19
Speaker
Really?
00:11:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:11:21
Speaker
It has been a huge...
00:11:23
Speaker
It's been a blessing to my heart to be back and involved with Master Arts too.
00:11:27
Speaker
It's been almost 10 years since I've done anything with them.
00:11:30
Speaker
I think Charlie Brown was the last thing we did there.
00:11:33
Speaker
That was like nine years ago, I think, because I was like two.
00:11:36
Speaker
Yeah, that was 2016.
00:11:37
Speaker
I was just thinking about that because that's really weird.
00:11:40
Speaker
We got to know each other.
00:11:42
Speaker
But I've known Sarah Grace since I was a wee lad.
00:11:45
Speaker
I've known Nate, yeah, since you were like eight, I think.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah, you were really little.
00:11:48
Speaker
Like a sister to me.
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:50
Speaker
Yep.
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah, but I think Master Arts was fun to get back to because that was also my first theater show was being in Master Arts.
00:11:59
Speaker
I was eight when I was in my first show there.
00:12:02
Speaker
And Walt Williams was in it too.
00:12:03
Speaker
We were in Christmas Carol together, so it was kind of cool.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, good reconnect there for sure.
00:12:09
Speaker
And we're also just starting.
00:12:11
Speaker
We have auditions in a week.
00:12:13
Speaker
two weeks two weeks for um frozen junior with midway theater company over in lansing area so yeah so we're very excited for that as well our kids will definitely be involved in that oh yeah there you've done that one before right yeah it's been yeah it's been 2019 was when we were asked wow six years ago it's been that long yeah well we were trying to think can we even do this one i was like yeah because none of the kids that were in it then they've all graduated they're all
00:12:49
Speaker
Our children
Balancing Family Life and Artistic Pursuits
00:12:50
Speaker
are very much casting it.
00:12:52
Speaker
I could play this and I could play this.
00:12:55
Speaker
Going through the fantasies of that.
00:12:59
Speaker
It's fun to hear them talk that way.
00:13:01
Speaker
We all did that, didn't we?
00:13:04
Speaker
Yes.
00:13:05
Speaker
So one of the questions we always ask all of our guests is either as people creating or as audiences taking in art, are there ways that God is using art in your life right now?
00:13:17
Speaker
Or speaking to you through it?
00:13:20
Speaker
Always.
00:13:21
Speaker
That's the most common answer, I think.
00:13:26
Speaker
Well, you know, it's funny because... I'm kind of thinking of those things, so I'm glad that you guys came.
00:13:32
Speaker
The guests are quicker on their feet.
00:13:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:36
Speaker
Pressure's in.
00:13:38
Speaker
I send them the questions in advance.
00:13:40
Speaker
You just have to think on your feet.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yes, you're good with that, Nate.
00:13:43
Speaker
You've always been a quick win.
00:13:47
Speaker
With Pirates, it's kind of funny because it's just a comedy.
00:13:53
Speaker
There's nothing really substantial, I would say, to Pirates.
00:13:56
Speaker
It's a lot of fluff.
00:13:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:58
Speaker
But the people, I think it's always like just learning.
00:14:03
Speaker
You learn so much.
00:14:04
Speaker
Like it's been a whole, we have some old friends and pirates in the cast, but then there's a lot of new people.
00:14:10
Speaker
And I think that always opens up new waves of thought for me.
00:14:15
Speaker
Like when you meet somebody new or you get to be in a space with, um, yeah, just totally different people that you haven't worked with before.
00:14:22
Speaker
And, um,
00:14:23
Speaker
So I see how God is working in them.
00:14:26
Speaker
And I just think that's always cool just to meet new people, being with a bunch of adults this time, like some of the new people, like, I guess I'm specifically thinking of like Ken and like, he's just poured into us a lot too.
00:14:38
Speaker
And I think that's always neat to see how.
00:14:41
Speaker
They deny it a lot.
00:14:44
Speaker
Yes.
00:14:45
Speaker
I just feel like that's cool.
00:14:46
Speaker
Just so I get to know other people.
00:14:48
Speaker
That's, I don't feel like there's not with pirates.
00:14:51
Speaker
I feel like it's not so much of like,
00:15:06
Speaker
I don't know if people are going to come away from watching it like, oh, that was so moving, you know, but it's just fun.
00:15:12
Speaker
It'll be fun.
00:15:13
Speaker
It brings joy, and I think a lot of people are going through difficult seasons, and so we all need joy.
00:15:18
Speaker
So that'll be fun.
00:15:19
Speaker
Well, I would echo that's why we...
00:15:21
Speaker
why we really love doing theater.
00:15:24
Speaker
I love the performance.
00:15:27
Speaker
I love the show.
00:15:28
Speaker
The outlet is great.
00:15:31
Speaker
But to me, probably my favorite part of all of this is the connections that happen.
00:15:38
Speaker
You know, you have these moments with people, whether they be on stage, backstage, off stage, or whatever, you know, it's always about the people that are involved.
00:15:48
Speaker
How, see, being able to see someone step into a theater for the first time and then grow through that show.
00:15:56
Speaker
You know, whether it's complete stranger, an old friend, jumping in, you're walking with them for a season of time that you probably wouldn't have that opportunity in many other spaces for, you know.
00:16:08
Speaker
Right.
00:16:08
Speaker
In our normal day-to-day lives, we have our jobs, we have our family, you know, and that takes up a lot of time.
00:16:14
Speaker
Right.
00:16:14
Speaker
Right.
00:16:21
Speaker
It really does change.
00:16:22
Speaker
We're going to make intense eye contact.
00:16:25
Speaker
And dance.
00:16:25
Speaker
We never do that.
00:16:26
Speaker
We don't take time for that.
00:16:28
Speaker
And all the things you talk about, even about the show,
00:16:37
Speaker
And I think this is why I love theater so much is it's like a therapy tool.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:43
Speaker
You know, it really, if you have to delve into these characters so much, it teaches you how to do it in your own life too.
00:16:51
Speaker
You know, you have to ask the questions.
00:16:53
Speaker
Why is this character feeling this way?
00:16:54
Speaker
And then you have to answer the questions.
00:16:57
Speaker
Right.
00:16:59
Speaker
And that's what I feel like so much of us are missing in our normal lives too, is asking those questions about ourselves.
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:05
Speaker
And then also,
00:17:06
Speaker
answering those questions about ourselves right so yeah yeah it's like now imagine your name i am name okay but just imagine your name and you're going through this problem that is my problem what would you do i don't know if you were in that situation yeah yeah that's truly what it is
00:17:25
Speaker
But yeah, very much so.
00:17:26
Speaker
The connections are why we're here.
00:17:28
Speaker
So, you know, we have some of our oldest and dearest friends are from the shows we've been in, you know.
00:17:33
Speaker
Well, and I was thinking about in Pirates too, because Nate and Gracie are in it.
00:17:37
Speaker
They're married.
00:17:38
Speaker
But Gracie, we actually met when we directed Honk at Master Arts 10 years ago.
00:17:43
Speaker
And yeah, we never knew her before that, but she has honestly become one of our very closest friends.
00:17:48
Speaker
Well, they got married because... They met each other because...
00:17:53
Speaker
But now they're both in the show.
00:17:54
Speaker
Nate hasn't been in a show since high school.
00:17:57
Speaker
Wow.
00:17:58
Speaker
And Gracie hasn't been in anything in forever.
00:18:00
Speaker
So it's just fun.
00:18:01
Speaker
Like, I mean, I always love seeing how that happens.
00:18:03
Speaker
There are seasons of life too, you know, it's been a while for us since we've done anything and it's fun to come back to it now that our kids are able to handle that too.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:13
Speaker
What's, what's that journey been like trying to, I guess, yeah.
00:18:18
Speaker
What, what's the words I'm trying to think of?
00:18:22
Speaker
Life changes so much as your family grows when you get married, when you have kids.
00:18:29
Speaker
Have you always been able to keep art a part of your lives with everything going on with your family?
00:18:37
Speaker
Or has there been times where that's just had to go away almost entirely?
00:18:41
Speaker
There's... We've never really stopped doing... No, but we've had hiatuses for sure.
00:18:48
Speaker
You know...
00:18:49
Speaker
There are definitely times where you're like, I wish I could do that.
00:18:58
Speaker
I wish I could go audition for that show.
00:19:00
Speaker
I wish I could go direct that show.
00:19:02
Speaker
And you just recognize what you have on your hands and as responsibilities in your life.
00:19:07
Speaker
And you know, okay, that would not be healthy.
00:19:10
Speaker
For me, for my family, you know.
00:19:12
Speaker
Can't commit to four or five nights a week.
00:19:16
Speaker
Exactly.
00:19:17
Speaker
So, you know, there are things that you miss out on.
00:19:19
Speaker
But you say miss out.
00:19:21
Speaker
You're missing out on that.
00:19:23
Speaker
But you're really recognizing what you're gaining through, you know, staying for your family.
00:19:30
Speaker
But I think it's been a focus of ours.
00:19:33
Speaker
to if we're doing theater making sure that we're doing it as a family as much as possible it's not always possible pirates actually has been a little bit we were hoping it was going to be more of a family thing for us um keeping our kids involved in like the backstage portion of it and whatnot and that kind of has not happened so much sure so um that's been a little bit of a
00:19:56
Speaker
a letdown I know for our children a little bit.
Impact of Arts on Children
00:20:00
Speaker
We're working on that.
00:20:03
Speaker
But, you know, that's where Frozen will be.
00:20:07
Speaker
They're just going to love that because they're going to be in it and then we're going to be directing it.
00:20:12
Speaker
I was going to say, I think it's been really neat to see
00:20:15
Speaker
because from day one like i mean we pulled zaya on stage with us oh yeah and honk and he was six months old so he's been on stage since he was a baby and then i mean eliza too like we did suzakola out with midway and she was brought on stage as a baby and his eye was a little elephant bird so they've been you know since they were teeny they really have just been dragged onto the stage and they've watched
00:20:39
Speaker
You know, they've watched the rehearsal processes and we've always had them.
00:20:43
Speaker
We definitely try to include them as much as we can.
00:20:48
Speaker
And prep and prepare them for those inclusions as well.
00:20:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's not easy.
00:20:53
Speaker
I think some of the prep time has been...
00:20:58
Speaker
It takes a lot, like when you're doing a show, you're there every night for tech week or whatever, and it's like you're having to get all the meals set before, and it's like, what are we going to need to bring three children to the theater, and how are they, okay, and I think homeschooling, because I homeschool the kids, that's lent itself to that going really well, because they can sleep in a little bit in the morning when we have later nights at the theater, and then we can just, you know,
00:21:26
Speaker
have like they know they've learned that's part of it yeah they've napped in so many theaters right i have so many pictures of them sleeping in random places at theaters but they're yeah i think we've just you and i have worked as a team our philosophy since having children has always been to do as much as we can with them you know in a healthy way yeah as possible we're not going to extend them past what they're
00:21:51
Speaker
their abilities should be or exacerbate them in any way too, you know.
00:21:55
Speaker
We push them, you know.
00:21:57
Speaker
They're definitely pushed to their, you know, what they can handle and growing them.
00:22:02
Speaker
But we're also not trying to break them.
00:22:05
Speaker
Right.
00:22:06
Speaker
But they also love it.
00:22:07
Speaker
They do.
00:22:08
Speaker
They love being around the theater and they think that's, so it's not really hard.
00:22:12
Speaker
I mean, it's hard when they're tired sometimes or it's been like a long week, but it's not really hard having them there.
00:22:18
Speaker
They're,
00:22:19
Speaker
We've worked hard at helping them succeed with us, you know, and I think they've grown into that too.
00:22:26
Speaker
Um, some of it's just parenting, you know, like spending a lot of time from the get go, like just, you know, this is what we expect, giving them clear expectations and being honest about it and like, Hey, this didn't go super great today.
00:22:38
Speaker
Let's talk about it.
00:22:39
Speaker
What happened?
00:22:40
Speaker
You know, and like having those honest conversations with them and you know, they're really, they are amazing kids.
00:22:45
Speaker
Um,
00:22:46
Speaker
and we got lucky well a lot of people tell us that you're so lucky it's like no we work really hard like we've put a lot of time into like that is a pet peeve of my wife you're so lucky your kids are so well behaved okay luck had nothing to do with
00:23:02
Speaker
But I think that's part of why we've been able to continue doing so much because of parenting.
00:23:07
Speaker
Like, we've had to parent them.
00:23:09
Speaker
Yep.
00:23:09
Speaker
We expect a lot of our children, and they know that.
00:23:12
Speaker
And they actually love it.
00:23:13
Speaker
I mean, they rise to that, and they are amazing.
00:23:16
Speaker
It's not always easy.
00:23:18
Speaker
Nope.
00:23:18
Speaker
It's good for them.
00:23:19
Speaker
Yep.
00:23:20
Speaker
They serve.
00:23:21
Speaker
It's part of them serving, too.
00:23:22
Speaker
I think that's cool to, like, teach them.
00:23:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:24
Speaker
From a young age.
00:23:25
Speaker
Oh, I'd say they're definitely... I mean, when you talk... Go back to, like, the people connections.
00:23:29
Speaker
Like, this is what theater is really about.
00:23:31
Speaker
Having them, whether they're in the show or not, just having them around the cast members.
00:23:37
Speaker
That connection with... When you see an older cast member connect with a little child, it is a blessing to see that.
00:23:47
Speaker
It's part of the, if you can call it ministry, I guess, of theater.
00:23:52
Speaker
That's all part of it.
00:23:55
Speaker
Now, when you were having kids, was there a conscious decision of...
00:24:01
Speaker
doing theater arts is like important to us, so we're gonna find a way to keep doing it, or is it also this is gonna be important for our kids too, or what was that thought process like?
00:24:11
Speaker
Well, you know, we met in theater.
00:24:14
Speaker
So I think,
00:24:15
Speaker
We just have always done it.
00:24:17
Speaker
Like, even when we're at family gatherings, you and I will sing something.
00:24:20
Speaker
Or, like, I mean, they've always been around.
00:24:21
Speaker
We sing with your brothers.
00:24:22
Speaker
I always sing with my sister.
00:24:24
Speaker
Like, we just grew up doing that.
00:24:25
Speaker
And that's how our families love it, too.
00:24:27
Speaker
So I think that's part of, like, that's part of both of our families, I guess.
00:24:32
Speaker
And it's become such a part of your individual family's culture now, I'm sure, that the kids...
00:24:38
Speaker
they love it right yeah they i think they got bitten with the bug pretty young just because they were around it all the time we both have a love for it and we so want to share that with our children yeah and so far they do love it like all of them and they're on they like different aspects of it you can see like different parts where they've you know they kind of lean towards um but you know we've asked like zaya do you want to go play like baseball or do you want to play soccer he's like
00:25:07
Speaker
No.
00:25:08
Speaker
Not about it.
00:25:09
Speaker
That's fine.
00:25:11
Speaker
I'm not going to force you because I don't want to sit on the side of the soccer field if I don't have to.
00:25:16
Speaker
I'm not going to force you.
00:25:18
Speaker
Good answer.
00:25:19
Speaker
I'll put the spanking spoon away now.
00:25:26
Speaker
no so i don't i feel like they just they all like in their way lights is more into like the dance side of things at this point she loves dance and so i loves the comedy of theater she's so funny on stage she's amazing
00:25:40
Speaker
Well, that's been fun to see them grow.
00:25:42
Speaker
You know, because Zaya, his first, I think he was seven when he did the Peter Pan.
00:25:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:25:48
Speaker
And that was so fun because he just loved it.
00:25:50
Speaker
He was so teeny up there.
00:25:51
Speaker
It was like, oh, my gosh, you're so cute.
00:25:54
Speaker
It was fun to see him.
00:25:54
Speaker
But then, yeah, he grew.
00:25:56
Speaker
He did a few different shows over the years.
00:25:58
Speaker
It was just neat to see how he's grown and then seeing a light to jump in.
00:26:03
Speaker
Watch out for Boaz.
00:26:05
Speaker
Boaz is going to beat everybody.
00:26:06
Speaker
I mean, he's just so funny.
00:26:08
Speaker
He's just like.
00:26:09
Speaker
Yeah, he's a singer.
00:26:12
Speaker
He came out singing.
00:26:13
Speaker
He's a beautiful voice.
00:26:15
Speaker
He sings really well for a four-year-old.
00:26:17
Speaker
Wow.
00:26:18
Speaker
It's kind of funny, but he's amazing.
00:26:21
Speaker
He hasn't been on stage yet.
00:26:22
Speaker
He keeps going, when am I going to be on stage?
00:26:24
Speaker
It's funny because our other two were on stage when they were babies, and I think, I don't know, we haven't had the opportunity to pull him out there.
00:26:33
Speaker
So he keeps going, so when will I go on stage?
Artistic Goals and Family Responsibilities
00:26:40
Speaker
you have your time we promise but yeah he's a goofball yes he's he loves to entertain so that will be fun to see what he where he goes with things but it's fun that even though like i feel like xia is very mature and at least can seem to have a
00:27:01
Speaker
more reserved personality than maybe Boaz, but then up on the stage, he's got the comedic timing when he was playing like the frog and hog whipping off those pants.
00:27:11
Speaker
There's other pants underneath those pants.
00:27:13
Speaker
Just to be clear.
00:27:20
Speaker
It was a tear away.
00:27:21
Speaker
It was a tear away.
00:27:23
Speaker
We were like in awe.
00:27:25
Speaker
Like, this is great.
00:27:26
Speaker
Nate didn't know those kind of pants existed.
00:27:28
Speaker
It was like, what?
00:27:29
Speaker
I had those for basketball.
00:27:30
Speaker
I was going to say, I bet you had them for basketball.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:33
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:27:36
Speaker
Yeah, don't worry.
00:27:36
Speaker
We're not ripping on sports.
00:27:38
Speaker
You know you like your basketball.
00:27:39
Speaker
I think there's value to sports.
00:27:41
Speaker
There surely is.
00:27:43
Speaker
And you know what?
00:27:44
Speaker
If our kids really wanted to, you bet we would.
00:27:47
Speaker
But I'm just grateful.
00:27:49
Speaker
They are really enjoying the theater.
00:27:51
Speaker
Oh, there's time if you ever want.
00:27:53
Speaker
Oh, yes.
00:27:53
Speaker
There's tons of time.
00:27:55
Speaker
What does it look like trying to figure out how to incorporate them into a project?
00:28:01
Speaker
Are there ever times where you're like, I mean, you're talking about with Pirates where it feels like it's more challenging and there's maybe not as many ways to.
00:28:08
Speaker
Does it start with deciding what shows you're doing or is it all?
00:28:13
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:28:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:14
Speaker
Yeah, it starts, it's definitely from the beginning there and that's where...
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's where I already said that's where Pirates has been a little bit more challenging just because there's not a lot of places where we can just kind of fit them in, you know.
00:28:28
Speaker
Boaz was a blast.
00:28:30
Speaker
Our sweet friend.
00:28:30
Speaker
Oh, Boaz.
00:28:31
Speaker
He's just happy to be the green room entertainment.
00:28:34
Speaker
Oh, yes.
00:28:35
Speaker
He's happy.
00:28:36
Speaker
And Alita, too.
00:28:37
Speaker
She kind of flows.
00:28:39
Speaker
But he would love to be probably a little bit more involved.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yeah, he would like a position.
00:28:45
Speaker
But we need to work with him on it.
00:28:47
Speaker
He can probably help us a little bit more.
00:28:48
Speaker
He's still super young to be in a lot of those more demanding tech roles.
00:28:53
Speaker
And he takes things so seriously.
00:28:55
Speaker
So my concern was if he were to...
00:28:57
Speaker
have a bigger role backstage if something went wrong and he would feel so bad if something like he would just be hard for him he's very he's yeah he has a big heart he would be he would feel the weight of it it's all that balance as a parent of putting your children in places where you're going to push them it's going to be difficult that's okay but also not putting them in a place where they're going to
00:29:21
Speaker
fail and that failure is going to be crippling.
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:26
Speaker
Failure is important.
00:29:27
Speaker
Right.
00:29:28
Speaker
You know, God gives us challenges all the time.
00:29:31
Speaker
Right.
00:29:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:33
Speaker
But we always like to say he doesn't give us more than we can handle.
00:29:36
Speaker
Right.
00:29:36
Speaker
But as a parent, you get to decide what your child can handle.
00:29:39
Speaker
But it's the same thing as a parent to a child.
00:29:41
Speaker
It's protecting.
00:29:41
Speaker
You're really trying to give them places where they can, even if there is a failure, learning from the failure and being able to thrive through that.
00:29:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:49
Speaker
And,
00:29:50
Speaker
That's, I think, what we're dealing right now with, trying to decide for him
00:29:56
Speaker
is this too big of a failure moment if something were to happen?
00:29:59
Speaker
Sure.
00:29:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:59
Speaker
Because live theater.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:01
Speaker
It always goes wrong.
00:30:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:04
Speaker
You know, if something goes wrong, can he handle the stress of that moment?
00:30:07
Speaker
So, and, uh, yeah, that's still something we're trying to figure out at this point.
00:30:12
Speaker
So it will depend kind of on how things kind of pan out with the production.
00:30:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:18
Speaker
We're getting a better idea of that as each rehearsal goes by.
00:30:21
Speaker
So we'll have to make that decision here shortly.
00:30:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:25
Speaker
How has it been for you guys as artists?
00:30:27
Speaker
Does it ever feel like there's a point where the artist hat or the parent hat has to take a back seat or are you always trying to kind of balance those?
00:30:35
Speaker
What's that type of look like?
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:39
Speaker
I will say I'm always a parent first.
00:30:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:41
Speaker
You know, you recognize your responsibilities first.
00:30:50
Speaker
But there's, as a director, you have a huge responsibility as well.
00:30:53
Speaker
Right.
00:30:54
Speaker
You know?
00:30:55
Speaker
So, yeah, you can't just drop things and run because you have something else happening.
00:30:59
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:31:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:01
Speaker
Funny, funny story that I'm just remembering was when we did Charlie Brown and Master Eyes.
00:31:07
Speaker
So Zaya would be at the theater with us and we had somebody given us like some kind of.
00:31:16
Speaker
dryer sheets.
00:31:17
Speaker
I had not used them before.
00:31:19
Speaker
Washed all our clothes with them.
00:31:20
Speaker
And then we get to the theater and Zai is just like crying.
00:31:23
Speaker
And he has all these welts all over his body.
00:31:26
Speaker
And it's right before we have to start the show.
00:31:29
Speaker
And I'm just going.
00:31:29
Speaker
Was it a performance?
00:31:31
Speaker
Yeah, it was a performance.
00:31:32
Speaker
And so he's just crying.
00:31:33
Speaker
We're looking at him like
00:31:34
Speaker
Oh my goodness, does he have chicken pox?
00:31:36
Speaker
What's going on?
00:31:37
Speaker
You don't know.
00:31:38
Speaker
And you're like a new mom.
00:31:39
Speaker
And you're like, oh my gosh.
00:31:41
Speaker
And I remember Chris was there.
00:31:42
Speaker
And he's looking at it with me.
00:31:43
Speaker
And he's like, I don't know.
00:31:44
Speaker
It just looks like an allergic reaction to me.
00:31:46
Speaker
And I was like, OK.
00:31:47
Speaker
And then your mom was at the show.
00:31:49
Speaker
I think my mom was there.
00:31:50
Speaker
Honestly, I don't know.
00:31:51
Speaker
what what can we say about both of our parents like they help us so much the grandparents have given us necessary yeah they have helped so much my my mom and dad over the years and your mom and dad they have very much blessed us so much with helping us be able to do these things but your mom was at the show and somebody ran and grabbed her and was like we need you downstairs and she threw Ziya in the sink and
00:32:18
Speaker
The kitchen sink at Master's.
00:32:20
Speaker
I was giving him a bath.
00:32:22
Speaker
And then my two friends, Jodi and Sophie, were there.
00:32:24
Speaker
And they were supposed to, they were going to be helping, like, watch the kids for me while we were doing, in the show.
00:32:29
Speaker
And so they ran to the, like, drugstore, I think, got Epsom salt or something.
00:32:32
Speaker
So they're, like, giving him a bath in the sink.
00:32:35
Speaker
And I'm running on stage for more.
00:32:36
Speaker
And I'm, like, crying.
00:32:38
Speaker
Like, I'm leaving my poor old.
00:32:39
Speaker
guys crying with Tati and I'm trying to get them and I have to perform Sally Brown right now yeah so it is it's like it is a hard challenge five minutes before a show deciding whether you're going to the hospital or not and I feel like with kids it's like it never happens at convenient like there's always there's always a sickness the week of show there's always you know and it's like so you are you do have to balance those things of like
00:33:04
Speaker
parents but also shows going on and so yeah it's always I don't know if there's for me artist parent hat putting them both on it's like I feel like as a mom I'm always juggling a lot of hats so it doesn't feel like less than to me
Art as a Community and Personal Gift
00:33:20
Speaker
I just feel like there's different um like you're kind of all of them at once yeah
00:33:26
Speaker
And it's like every day I'm doing that.
00:33:28
Speaker
And so artist is now, I sing with my kids and we're doing homeschooling stuff.
00:33:32
Speaker
We're doing all of it.
00:33:33
Speaker
What that looks like being an artist definitely has changed over the years.
00:33:36
Speaker
That's probably the better way to say it.
00:33:38
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:33:39
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:33:40
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:33:41
Speaker
It's becoming less and less about us.
00:33:43
Speaker
Probably the better way to say it.
00:33:45
Speaker
And more and more about...
00:33:48
Speaker
All of us.
00:33:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:50
Speaker
Because we want to do things as a family, and we always love being able to do that with our kids.
00:33:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's fun.
00:33:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:58
Speaker
Good question.
00:33:59
Speaker
An abstract thought.
00:34:00
Speaker
It's turning into something.
00:34:02
Speaker
Ooh.
00:34:02
Speaker
Next, drawing it out with dark arts.
00:34:07
Speaker
It's the think system.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah, does it feel like, I don't know, does it feel like things have moved for you guys that are you doing more like,
00:34:15
Speaker
youth shows do you find or is it more like?
00:34:18
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:19
Speaker
Definitely.
00:34:20
Speaker
You know, as our kids are growing and getting of age, then yeah, we start doing more junior shows, you know, to facilitate their learning and whatnot.
00:34:28
Speaker
We, gosh, I haven't, I haven't taught a drama class in
00:34:32
Speaker
forever yeah and then two two years ago we were like hey they're getting old enough to do drama classes we offered a drama class and we had rehearsals in our living room nice yeah it's like a couple other families just a couple other homeschool kids and you know
00:34:49
Speaker
Oh, how fun was that?
00:34:50
Speaker
Yeah, it was a blast.
00:34:51
Speaker
And Zaya and Elitza loved it.
00:34:53
Speaker
That was the best thing ever.
00:34:55
Speaker
Also, Zaya did not want to do that.
00:34:56
Speaker
He was like a drama class.
00:34:59
Speaker
And we're like, trust us.
00:35:00
Speaker
You're going to like it.
00:35:00
Speaker
You're going to love it.
00:35:02
Speaker
And he loved it.
00:35:02
Speaker
It was like the best part of his week.
00:35:03
Speaker
So we've hosted a few more since then.
00:35:05
Speaker
And they're, of course, involved in each one, you know.
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:08
Speaker
Well, I love that.
00:35:10
Speaker
the like the grow where you are type of thing not just physically but where you are and life no we can do this now because they're very important just finding the joy in whatever it is not having to be latched on to this is my thing I have to always be doing this thing
00:35:26
Speaker
I wouldn't give me a different areas because now lights is doing more of ballet.
00:35:30
Speaker
And so her ballet school, they, their, their spring show, her director had contacted me and she was like, I don't know.
00:35:38
Speaker
Stage manager's out for this one is Cole.
00:35:40
Speaker
Are you interested?
00:35:41
Speaker
And we're like,
00:35:42
Speaker
sure why not yeah so Cole actually we're gonna be more but hey why not Cole did it but Zaya loved it so you and Cole kind of tech team oh nice and he was like this is great and they're trying to get Zaya of course to be in the Nutcracker this year because they need more guys and he's like no way I'm on backstage I love
00:36:00
Speaker
love the headset it was so fun so yeah i'm like sorry hannah he's not gonna be wear a headset on stage yeah yeah but that's fun so it's like you know family stuff like that where it's like sometimes it takes a different shape but like you guys loved tag teaming the backstage and yeah yeah it's fun all those moments so it sounds like
00:36:23
Speaker
as you've grown, it's more about making art important for your family and thinking about how as a group are we moving towards art.
00:36:31
Speaker
Do you feel like you are
00:36:34
Speaker
almost serving others and others abilities to like create their own little works more so than you guys creating yourselves in this season.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:36:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:46
Speaker
I miss performing.
00:36:47
Speaker
You and I both have said that we miss the opportunities to be on stage.
00:36:51
Speaker
That's why my new goal is to all be in a show.
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:55
Speaker
We want to all be, we want to not be in charge.
00:36:57
Speaker
We want to step back and just go and be in it together.
00:37:00
Speaker
Sarah and I and all three kids.
00:37:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:02
Speaker
That's our, that's our goal.
00:37:03
Speaker
That's our big family goal.
00:37:04
Speaker
We just have to find the right script.
00:37:05
Speaker
Yeah, and Boaz has to be just a smidgen older, too.
00:37:08
Speaker
Right, right.
00:37:09
Speaker
Sure.
00:37:09
Speaker
Depends on the show.
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah, depends on the show.
00:37:11
Speaker
You're like, I don't know about that.
00:37:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think it works.
00:37:14
Speaker
It depends on what it is.
00:37:15
Speaker
No, definitely.
00:37:16
Speaker
And, you know, I have friends who are still in the arts, and...
00:37:22
Speaker
They really do see it as... You have friends?
00:37:26
Speaker
I know!
00:37:27
Speaker
Isn't that surprising?
00:37:30
Speaker
Though fewer and fewer, I will say.
00:37:32
Speaker
So maybe I should say acquaintances.
00:37:39
Speaker
You know, they're very serious about their artistic abilities and want to keep as fresh as possible.
00:37:46
Speaker
So they sometimes do sacrifice their family over a performance or something.
00:37:50
Speaker
And I'm not saying that's wrong, but that's definitely not what...
00:37:55
Speaker
we're trying to do.
00:37:57
Speaker
And I really, I think as a parent, it's so much more fulfilling to, you know, you want to see your children grow as a parent.
00:38:07
Speaker
What's your responsibility is to see your children grow, become responsible young adults and to have them walk beside you.
00:38:16
Speaker
as much as possible in your day-to-day, in your hobbies and whatever, that is where you will see that growth happen.
00:38:27
Speaker
And that is also where you have the most control over how that growth happens to you.
00:38:32
Speaker
You're sending your kids off, which is not a terrible thing by any means.
00:38:35
Speaker
It's wonderful.
00:38:36
Speaker
We try to do that wherever we can to give them time to learn from somebody else outside of mom and dad because that's a good balance too.
00:38:44
Speaker
And I won't teach a lights and valleys.
00:38:45
Speaker
I'm not.
00:38:46
Speaker
She's going to go somewhere else.
00:38:48
Speaker
Sorry.
00:38:49
Speaker
I don't want that responsibility.
00:38:51
Speaker
You're going elsewhere.
00:38:52
Speaker
But being able to walk with them.
00:38:54
Speaker
And I think, you know, we're very much focused on the arts in this conversation.
00:38:58
Speaker
But that is really an overall concept of our parenting, too, I feel like, is trying to...
00:39:04
Speaker
do as much as possible with them.
00:39:06
Speaker
Well, and you and I are, that's how we are in our marriage.
00:39:09
Speaker
And I think everybody's different and every marriage is different, obviously.
00:39:12
Speaker
So some marriages are, you know, you have your own hobbies and you're married, but then you kind of go do your own things.
00:39:18
Speaker
And that's all, not that we don't ever do our own things, but we love doing stuff together.
00:39:23
Speaker
And it's just neat to be able to
00:39:25
Speaker
Now, have our kids love doing stuff, too.
00:39:27
Speaker
Just like, I don't know.
00:39:28
Speaker
It's like, team group.
00:39:29
Speaker
Here we go.
00:39:30
Speaker
Let's go.
00:39:30
Speaker
We're calling the kids out and doing stuff.
00:39:33
Speaker
It's like, team group.
00:39:34
Speaker
This is our... I find myself incredibly blessed that we share a common hobby that we have.
00:39:40
Speaker
Yeah, we love.
00:39:41
Speaker
For sure.
00:39:42
Speaker
We like to go to sea shows together.
00:39:43
Speaker
And I do recognize how...
00:39:45
Speaker
seemingly rare that is amongst a lot of married folks.
00:39:51
Speaker
We're both blessed to have wives that have similar hobbies as us too.
00:39:55
Speaker
It's really nice.
00:39:58
Speaker
I've noticed
Skills and Lessons from Theater
00:40:00
Speaker
you guys, it's not just doing shows, but you just do these other
00:40:05
Speaker
fun thing let us let's dress up for this or let's get together this family and do this fun thing so it just seems to be like a way of like infusing life into your life would you say and that like we would like to say it seems that way from the outside maybe it's terrible on the inside you can ask for kids next next podcast you're having a like we're gonna if
00:40:35
Speaker
Why would you say that like that kind of like even just the arts and just in the house, the singing, the dancing, and then in the more structured way, why would you say that's important to kids or is it?
00:40:48
Speaker
Oh, it's so important.
00:40:50
Speaker
It is.
00:40:51
Speaker
I think so.
00:40:53
Speaker
I mean...
00:40:54
Speaker
Music is the first language I think that kids speak.
00:40:58
Speaker
It's something that's beautiful.
00:41:00
Speaker
And when you are playing music, it's like their brains turn out differently.
00:41:06
Speaker
And I think it challenges them to hear music everywhere.
00:41:12
Speaker
It's something that's absorbing beauty from the get-go.
00:41:17
Speaker
And so music, I think, is super important for a child.
00:41:21
Speaker
And then also, like, I don't know, just in theater, you have to be a team.
00:41:27
Speaker
So being, learning from the get-go that every person is important and everybody's serving for the same goal.
00:41:34
Speaker
That's something that's really important.
00:41:35
Speaker
Also empathy, like when you learn a new character, you learn to walk in somebody else's shoes.
00:41:40
Speaker
And so that is huge, I think, for kids today because we're not thinking about why did that person act that way?
00:41:49
Speaker
We're,
00:41:50
Speaker
we should be, you know, like when we can stop and think about why it's like, you know, as God has created all of us, he knows all of our whys, you know, and God created this person with a why.
00:42:00
Speaker
So if you can step into their shoes and then you can see a little bit more of who God created another person to be, even if it's different than you, like that's okay, you know, but it's being able to learn empathy.
00:42:11
Speaker
Dance, I think is its own thing.
00:42:12
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:42:13
Speaker
I love dance, obviously, but yeah, I do think it's, it's very important.
00:42:17
Speaker
And that was something that,
00:42:19
Speaker
It's not just fun.
00:42:20
Speaker
It's like, actually, I think it rewires your brain.
00:42:24
Speaker
I think kids can glean so much confidence.
00:42:27
Speaker
Like, even seeing how, like, Zaya was pretty quiet.
00:42:31
Speaker
You can probably test that as a little kid.
00:42:33
Speaker
Like, he would sit with one person, maybe.
00:42:35
Speaker
But as soon as he started being in shows, it was like his confidence went so, I mean, it just, like, went through the roof.
00:42:41
Speaker
Like, it was like... Kind of curb him a little bit.
00:42:43
Speaker
No, like, he's just... Maybe he shouldn't have said that in front of everybody.
00:42:49
Speaker
No, but it's just amazing to see.
00:42:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's so important.
00:42:53
Speaker
It was important to me growing up.
00:42:55
Speaker
It gave me, dance was a language for me.
00:42:57
Speaker
When I couldn't speak certain words, dance gave me, and I'd say it's my prayer language in a sense.
00:43:03
Speaker
Like, it was an ability to connect to God differently than words.
00:43:08
Speaker
I know that's how dance is for Ellie, too.
00:43:11
Speaker
Like, for worship.
00:43:12
Speaker
It's like, it's like he, to her.
00:43:14
Speaker
It's a different, yeah.
00:43:16
Speaker
Yeah, it can be hard to find great opportunities to do that because, like, our world isn't just, like, always used to people just breaking out in worshipful dance wherever you want to.
00:43:29
Speaker
The Pentecostal world, man.
00:43:30
Speaker
Yes, that's true.
00:43:31
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's, you know, something there.
00:43:33
Speaker
Well, I mean, there's something to that.
00:43:38
Speaker
Yes, there is.
00:43:39
Speaker
Yeah, it does.
00:43:39
Speaker
There's a lot of that that I love.
00:43:41
Speaker
There's some really cool avenues.
00:43:43
Speaker
But, yeah.
00:43:44
Speaker
So I think it's important.
00:43:45
Speaker
Sorry I took that question.
00:43:47
Speaker
No, that's all right.
00:43:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:49
Speaker
What was the question?
00:43:52
Speaker
From the...
00:43:54
Speaker
From the womanly view of mental health, yes, I see that.
00:44:00
Speaker
But also from the manly view of logic.
00:44:04
Speaker
I would say there are so many life skills that are learned.
00:44:07
Speaker
Just remember, there's mental health for men too and logic for women.
00:44:11
Speaker
Just have to say, I can be logical.
00:44:16
Speaker
This is a strength and this is a strength and that's why it is wonderful to build together, right?
00:44:22
Speaker
Yes.
00:44:22
Speaker
Yes.
00:44:23
Speaker
And I appreciate that about you, and I hope you appreciate it about me.
00:44:28
Speaker
That'd be nice.
00:44:28
Speaker
Yes.
00:44:29
Speaker
But no, very much so.
00:44:30
Speaker
There are so many life skills that theater has to teach you, and you touched on some of them already, you know, being able to speak publicly, comfortably, and other things like that.
00:44:39
Speaker
It's so important.
00:44:40
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:44:42
Speaker
But, yeah, the... I think you already touched on this a little bit about...
00:44:48
Speaker
Being able to analyze how people are feeling and things like that.
00:44:54
Speaker
And just because you're asking the questions of how is my character feeling, how is things like that, you're also doing that in your real life then too.
00:45:03
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:45:05
Speaker
I think our world is so, our culture right now is so focused on the self, right?
00:45:12
Speaker
Of how do I feel...
00:45:16
Speaker
What is making me feel sad?
00:45:18
Speaker
What is making, you know, and that's what I very much appreciate.
00:45:24
Speaker
Like, that is an important thing, but you have to balance that with how are others feeling as well.
00:45:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:32
Speaker
think that's a really big focus of ours with bringing our kids along with us and many of our journeys is trying to teach them to serve others right pay attention to how others are feeling not to ignore their own feelings but then use that with tandem with others as well you know so it's it's a it's a broad picture right good conversations with the kids oh very much you know if you're in theater you're gonna be exposed to
00:45:59
Speaker
A lot.
00:46:00
Speaker
They've been exposed to a lot.
00:46:01
Speaker
And we try to be careful about that, obviously.
00:46:03
Speaker
But there are things that happen that we're not in full control of.
00:46:07
Speaker
You know, they might have a cast member say something and then they come back to mom and dinner.
00:46:12
Speaker
What did that mean?
00:46:12
Speaker
What did that mean?
00:46:13
Speaker
You're like, oh.
00:46:14
Speaker
Well, you hear that?
00:46:15
Speaker
We're having this conversation now, right?
00:46:16
Speaker
A light's a hat.
00:46:18
Speaker
Leitza had one of the older girls tell her that her younger brother loved Leitza.
00:46:24
Speaker
Oh, she liked her.
00:46:25
Speaker
Loved.
00:46:27
Speaker
Oh.
00:46:27
Speaker
She said loved.
00:46:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:28
Speaker
He has a crush on her.
00:46:30
Speaker
I said, well, what do you think that means?
00:46:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:32
Speaker
Well, I don't know.
00:46:32
Speaker
He just loves me.
00:46:34
Speaker
I said, well, it's hard to be loved.
00:46:36
Speaker
They all love me.
00:46:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:36
Speaker
Not to love.
00:46:37
Speaker
What's not to love?
00:46:38
Speaker
Yeah.
Handling Challenging Themes and Lessons Learned
00:46:40
Speaker
But of course, as a parent, you're like, I know where that's going and what that means.
00:46:43
Speaker
And I'm like, no, that's great.
00:46:45
Speaker
I'm glad that she can have that innocent view of that.
00:46:48
Speaker
And we're just going to leave that at that until we have to deal with that down the road.
00:46:52
Speaker
Because you little eight-year-olds do not need to know what that means.
00:47:00
Speaker
And there have been other things.
00:47:01
Speaker
Ziya's definitely had questions.
00:47:03
Speaker
It's funny when you get some of these older scripts and the kids have to say something.
00:47:07
Speaker
Like they just did Music Man a couple months ago.
00:47:11
Speaker
And there's a lot of old speak in there.
00:47:16
Speaker
And I'm excited.
00:47:17
Speaker
You know what that means?
00:47:19
Speaker
I was even thinking of Shadowlands for him because there was hard content.
00:47:23
Speaker
That was a very unique experience for him.
00:47:25
Speaker
How was that for him?
00:47:26
Speaker
Because he played C.S.
00:47:28
Speaker
Lewis's stepson.
00:47:30
Speaker
Douglas.
00:47:33
Speaker
And it's hard because his mom dies at the end of it.
00:47:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:38
Speaker
Was that just easy for him?
00:47:39
Speaker
No.
00:47:40
Speaker
What was that like for him?
00:47:40
Speaker
It was hard for him because it was... It was a good heart.
00:47:43
Speaker
It was a great heart.
00:47:44
Speaker
It was honestly such good timing.
00:47:46
Speaker
The Lord is so good because Zaya is a bottler.
00:47:49
Speaker
He thinks a lot.
00:47:51
Speaker
He holds a lot in.
00:47:52
Speaker
And he just walked through my dad passing away, who he was very close with.
00:47:57
Speaker
And then we had a miscarriage at 20 weeks.
00:47:59
Speaker
And so he had just walked through losing a sibling that he didn't even realize that could happen.
00:48:04
Speaker
And so he was just...
00:48:06
Speaker
walking through to very, yeah, just death was very close.
00:48:10
Speaker
So I was actually a little concerned, you know, I was like, is this going to be too hard, you know?
00:48:15
Speaker
But I was like, no.
00:48:16
Speaker
Nah, this is great.
00:48:19
Speaker
it well and he got the script and i remember seeing the show yeah a long time ago um when master arts did it last time and so i was like okay here's the script you can read it um and i didn't realize some of the adult content in the show and so he goes mom um did you know that my dad in the show broke a bottle over my head and i was like
00:48:46
Speaker
No, I didn't know that.
00:48:48
Speaker
I was like, what does that make you feel like?
00:48:49
Speaker
You used that for your character.
00:48:50
Speaker
Yeah, I did.
00:48:51
Speaker
We talked about it.
00:48:52
Speaker
I was like, so what does that, you know, what does that make you feel like?
00:48:54
Speaker
Like, he goes, that's really sad.
00:48:56
Speaker
I said, it is so sad, Ziya.
00:48:58
Speaker
That is such a sad thing that kids actually do have that kind of stuff happen.
00:49:02
Speaker
And we were able to listen to Douglas Gresham recorded a podcast.
00:49:08
Speaker
And he talked about, like, some of his life.
00:49:10
Speaker
And so when we would drive to the theater, we were listening to that and, like, how...
00:49:15
Speaker
it was neat because he was talking about how when his mom was dying he would go there was a church that was close by and he wasn't really walking in any sort of faith at that time and um he would feel god when he would walk into this church it was like it was really interesting so we zy and i were talking about that because even his character at the end said i don't believe in heaven or whatever the line was something along those lines and um
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah, that was hard for him to say that.
00:49:43
Speaker
He had a hard time having to put on Douglas and take off Ziya.
00:49:47
Speaker
That was something that he doesn't, you know, I don't know.
00:49:51
Speaker
It was very good for him.
00:49:53
Speaker
It was a way for him to process grief that wasn't his own.
00:49:57
Speaker
but it was so close and he knew what it felt like.
00:50:00
Speaker
And I think that was really timely that he got to do that part because it just, it opened up a lot of opportunity for him for sure.
00:50:09
Speaker
And it gave us so many opportunities to talk about
00:50:13
Speaker
what had happened in our own lives, too.
00:50:16
Speaker
Although we had talked about them, it's not that we were ignoring them.
00:50:19
Speaker
It just helped us process it even more.
00:50:21
Speaker
A new way.
00:50:22
Speaker
Yeah, a creative way.
00:50:24
Speaker
And I think the cast was so wonderful to him.
00:50:27
Speaker
They were all so kind.
00:50:28
Speaker
And they were talking about who they had lost at one, like one time before the show.
00:50:32
Speaker
And he hadn't talked, he hadn't really talked about, especially the miscarriage before.
00:50:37
Speaker
And he was able to, he shared with them, yeah, I actually lost my sibling a couple months ago.
00:50:42
Speaker
And they were like,
00:50:45
Speaker
I didn't know that he would even be comfortable to talk about that.
00:50:48
Speaker
And so he was, and he loves adults.
00:50:50
Speaker
I think he's an old soul.
00:50:52
Speaker
And so to have a, he functions well with adults.
00:50:55
Speaker
So he was very comfortable to talk with them.
00:50:58
Speaker
And yeah, that was a beautiful thing that they gave, a gift that they gave to him to include him so well.
00:51:05
Speaker
So that was neat.
00:51:07
Speaker
But yeah.
00:51:09
Speaker
I was recently reminded that
00:51:12
Speaker
doing a show isn't just about us too, but the audience as well.
00:51:16
Speaker
Because you're thinking about, like, is it worth it for me to do this show?
00:51:19
Speaker
And that is a thing to think about.
00:51:21
Speaker
But, like, the last show that Ellie and I did, we had some friends come to it, and they shared their, like, 50s, 60s, you know.
00:51:29
Speaker
But they shared how, ah,
00:51:33
Speaker
love the show it just gave us such good conversation and like like my husband he'd like he'd like we had such good deep conversation and that doesn't usually happen and he was sharing how he empathized with with my character and stuff and just like oh it really provided for people who don't always get an opportunity to talk about what's going on with them maybe some of the feelings it gives an outlet for that i'm like oh
00:51:59
Speaker
huh, I guess I should think about that more.
00:52:01
Speaker
How is this a service thing for the audience?
00:52:04
Speaker
I heard that from so many people who saw Shadowlands because there was a lot of depth in that show and a lot of dealing with grief and relationships that aren't always easy.
00:52:13
Speaker
I would say that show, the content was about suffering.
00:52:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:17
Speaker
And everybody's had, and it was interesting.
00:52:19
Speaker
Everybody that came to see it were like, oh, this, yeah, this was really powerful for me right now, you know?
00:52:25
Speaker
So it was neat.
00:52:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:27
Speaker
I feel like that's a concept that could help be sort of a guide through it in all of these different elements is not thinking about art as something that I'm doing for myself and my own edification and joy or to fulfill my own artistic life.
00:52:44
Speaker
calling or desires or whatnot, but thinking about it as this is something, creating is something that we give.
00:52:51
Speaker
And the ability to create is something that we give.
00:52:54
Speaker
And so that can be given to our children or that can be given to the audience and the art that we create or to our fellow cast members when you get to do a really cool scene or get to direct actors and take time on something.
00:53:05
Speaker
But thinking about it less about, man, I want to do this because this is medium and satisfying for me.
00:53:12
Speaker
but trusting rather God to give you whatever, you know, journey or satisfaction or edification comes from art and instead thinking about what can I give as an artist, as a parent, as a director and all of those roles.
00:53:27
Speaker
That's what God did.
00:53:28
Speaker
I mean, he created, and when you think about God creating the world,
00:53:31
Speaker
creating us and I Chris McDonald I she always would say that he's the author of the arts and she always talked that way and that was something that she instilled within me as an eight year old you know and I understood what that meant because she spoke I was a child but she spoke to us as I mean as adults in a sense like she didn't ever water things I mean she was kind
00:53:57
Speaker
She has a full soul.
00:53:58
Speaker
I just loved that about her.
00:54:01
Speaker
She definitely taught me that from such a young age and I'm so grateful.
00:54:06
Speaker
God created to give to us.
00:54:10
Speaker
We are creative beings.
00:54:11
Speaker
He created us in his image.
00:54:13
Speaker
And so when we create, it's also a blessing, I think, to him too.
00:54:16
Speaker
So it's just neat to think of it that way, that he's creating, he created us, he created the whole world, and then we get to create.
00:54:24
Speaker
And it's really cool.
00:54:26
Speaker
Well, it's like being a parent, it's like you get more opportunity to perform than ever.
00:54:32
Speaker
It's so funny.
00:54:33
Speaker
You're like, like, Baron is like,
00:54:36
Speaker
Tell Snow White.
00:54:38
Speaker
All right, we're going to tell this story now.
00:54:41
Speaker
And we're performing, or even if you're trying to get him to eat food, you have to personify the potatoes.
00:54:46
Speaker
Because suddenly now they're peeling when they want to be asking to go into your mouth and stuff.
00:54:52
Speaker
And so it's fun doing it, but you're trying to help him in it.
00:54:56
Speaker
So there's like a serving.
00:55:00
Speaker
fun.
00:55:00
Speaker
I would agree with that.
00:55:01
Speaker
Bedtime stories with dad.
00:55:03
Speaker
They're the best.
00:55:04
Speaker
All your accents.
00:55:05
Speaker
My children are my greatest audience.
00:55:07
Speaker
Yeah, they're so fun.
00:55:09
Speaker
Yeah, they love it.
00:55:11
Speaker
Like earlier today, I think I was doing something silly and like Barrett didn't have much reaction, but Tyrion, my seven month old, he's like grinning over there.
00:55:23
Speaker
You matter too.
00:55:27
Speaker
But it's cool to think that
00:55:29
Speaker
God has that delight and I'm delighting my children and I'm creating for them.
00:55:35
Speaker
And, oh, this is great.
00:55:37
Speaker
It's so cool.
00:55:39
Speaker
Well, this has been a great discussion.
00:55:41
Speaker
We're getting close to our time.
00:55:43
Speaker
I wanted to ask, we ask every guest for resources, things that have been helpful for them.
00:55:48
Speaker
So are there resources for you guys as artists or Christians or parents that have been helpful for you as you've navigated these?
00:55:58
Speaker
parts of yourselves our parents that's what i was gonna say that's my greatest resource right there yeah our parents uh but you can't have them sorry sorry audience they're claimed already well i think just i mean the older generation
00:56:14
Speaker
in general.
00:56:15
Speaker
I think we've gotten into our culture as very much age segregated.
00:56:19
Speaker
And it makes me so sad.
00:56:21
Speaker
And that's why we love doing stuff with our kids.
00:56:23
Speaker
But our kids interact as well with us and kids their age as well as their grandparents.
00:56:28
Speaker
And all the ages.
00:56:31
Speaker
I love that.
00:56:31
Speaker
And I think there's something so beautiful about
00:56:34
Speaker
the across the ages and interacting and so looking up to the next generation Chris McDonald was amazing she taught us so much um yeah elders for sure is a greatest respect respect I don't know that I have like a book or anything I would recommend I know I was trying to rack through my brain too and I really feel like
00:56:58
Speaker
it's just relationally like given gifts and i feel like our parents were both really good about teaching us very similarly how we're trying to raise our children too somebody who i did learn a lot from in arts i would say as well he has a lot of books out is michael card and i grew up with his daughter we were in sunday school together and their family was a good friend of our family's when we lived in tennessee
00:57:23
Speaker
But he has incredible teachings about art and his music is so powerful too.
00:57:30
Speaker
He's somebody that has, I think, you can look up anything, Michael Card.
00:57:33
Speaker
He has a lot of stuff out there.
00:57:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's beautiful.
00:57:36
Speaker
So he has a lot of cool stuff.
00:57:37
Speaker
So that's somebody that I thought of.
00:57:40
Speaker
No, but I love, especially in the context of this conversation, I love just the relationships, like that being the thing.
00:57:47
Speaker
Because those are so necessary and it is such a communal thing trying to build a family and navigate life with that.
00:57:55
Speaker
So...
00:57:57
Speaker
then thinking about okay if we're creating it's not just an us thing it's really our whole community thing we think our family is going to create this thing and so we need all the help and support and wisdom that we can get to do that yeah yeah very much so yeah we've had some really cool friends over the years too that are just a little older than us yeah we kind of met them through kind of through master us a couple of things too but they've
00:58:21
Speaker
They've been just ahead of us in parenting and have been encouragers to us.
00:58:25
Speaker
Having a good mentor and people to look up to is very important.
00:58:30
Speaker
Because as much as you think you do, you don't know it all.
00:58:37
Speaker
I've appreciated having you guys in my life because you've been that for me.
00:58:42
Speaker
I really was looking forward to us talking and hearing about like doing art as a family because that's like I have a family now and I wonder how do you do that?
00:58:51
Speaker
You're doing it.
00:58:51
Speaker
It's not always easy.
00:58:53
Speaker
You are doing it.
00:58:53
Speaker
No.
00:58:54
Speaker
And so it's good to hear you.
00:58:55
Speaker
You have good grandparents too.
00:58:57
Speaker
Yes.
00:58:57
Speaker
That's true.
00:58:58
Speaker
That's definitely.
00:58:59
Speaker
You're set up for success.
00:59:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:03
Speaker
Well, thank you guys again so much.
00:59:06
Speaker
Thanks.
00:59:07
Speaker
Thank you for having us.
00:59:08
Speaker
This was really good.
00:59:08
Speaker
This was lovely.