Transcript
Speaker: Hi everyone, welcome to Artists of the Way.
Speaker: I'm Nate and this is my co-host, John.
Speaker: Dang it.
Speaker: He is the executive director of this fine organization.
Speaker: Did you know this was an organization?
Speaker: And not just a couple dudes talking in front of a little Star Wars Lego figure?
Speaker: Well, do we have news for you.
Speaker: This is an organization.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: And John is here to tell you about it and to podcast with me.
Speaker: John, tell me about...
Speaker: Artists of the Way, what people may or may not know about it.
Speaker: Yeah, because I don't think I've updated the audience, which boggles my mind.
Speaker: I thought I would have by now.
Speaker: It's boggled.
Speaker: That's the sound of a boggled mind.
Speaker: Yes, Artists of the Way is becoming an organization.
Speaker: Obviously, we did Godspill in 2024.
Speaker: Obviously.
Speaker: Obviously.
Speaker: You don't know that.
Speaker: Where have you been?
Speaker: And obviously, we've been doing the podcast.
Speaker: But in the wake of...
Speaker: In the wake of Godspell, that just...
Speaker: was a really special experience and those of us involved wanted to keep it going.
Speaker: So we have a really wonderful board.
Speaker: We've actually been working on this for a few months now and we are officially an organization.
Speaker: We're working on getting our nonprofit status.
Speaker: Right now we're just making boatloads of money before that nonprofit status comes in.
Speaker: We're earning millions and millions and millions to carry us through the non-no.
Speaker: That's a good idea.
Speaker: Surprisingly, you need more than just not making money to earn nonprofit status.
Speaker: You can't just be like, hey, government, I have an ordinary thing.
Speaker: Hey, we're not making money.
Speaker: Can we have taxing this?
Speaker: No taxes.
Speaker: Can you not tax us on the nothing that we make?
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: They're like, sure.
Speaker: But I'm very excited.
Speaker: Our goal is to equip.
Speaker: He's been bouncing off the wall this whole time.
Speaker: Stop being so excited.
Speaker: Artists of the Way is an organization.
Speaker: I know, I know.
Speaker: But we want to equip artists.
Speaker: This is our vision and mission statement to equip artists in crafting quality performing arts and to cultivate innovative and creative artistry in a Christlike manner.
Speaker: We want to provide creative opportunities, guidance, and a community that refines art.
Speaker: artists and we also want to reflect the truth of christ through challenging joyful and redemptive art um so
Speaker: Didn't the board do great on that?
Speaker: I was involved too, but also it was the board.
Speaker: It was a group effort.
Speaker: Good job.
Speaker: But thanks, Guy.
Speaker: Thanks.
Speaker: We're just so excited.
Speaker: We're excited at the opportunities.
Speaker: We have a couple things in the works for 2026.
Speaker: One big thing in the works for 2026, which we are not announcing yet.
Speaker: One thing.
Speaker: One thing, for sure.
Speaker: And we may be a podcast.
Speaker: In 2026.
Speaker: We probably will podcast.
Speaker: So there's that.
Speaker: There's probably going to be a couple of things in 26.
Speaker: But this year, 2025, 2025, what we've announced recently is a conference that we're doing this fall.
Speaker: Oh, you know about this.
Speaker: You made the graph.
Speaker: I thought it was just a conceptual thing.
Speaker: didn't know you were actually doing it.
Speaker: Well, I love now you can read that.
Speaker: Oh, it's like, oh, you're doing that thing.
Speaker: Why?
Speaker: I thought it was just a concept.
Speaker: I would have told you now.
Speaker: What's the conference?
Speaker: The conference is the Cultivate Conference.
Speaker: It's a performing, a faith and performing arts conference.
Speaker: It's being put together by a bunch of the leaders in the Christian theater world here in West Michigan.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: We're working with Brad Garnott, C.J.
Speaker: Pletcher from HPA, Walt Williams from Master Arts Theater, and then myself and one of our board members, Elizabeth Hawkins.
Speaker: And we're putting together this wonderful conference with an amazing, amazing lineup of instructors, several from West Michigan, but we've got a couple from outside of West Michigan as well.
Speaker: One really exciting one, which I'm excited to announce.
Speaker: Go ahead.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: It's not that exciting.
Speaker: We're building suspense.
Speaker: It's good.
Speaker: But this conference is going to be happening on October 18th.
Speaker: It's an all-day conference on Saturday.
Speaker: It's focused on 5 a.m.
Speaker: 5 a.m.
Speaker: to 3 a.m.
Speaker: the next day.
Speaker: But it's still within 24 hours.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, it's 8 to 6, I believe.
Speaker: We'll have a schedule on the website in a couple weeks.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: The goal is to help you grow as a performing artist, to grow as a director or a leader.
Speaker: Use the word cultivate instead.
Speaker: To cultivate!
Speaker: Ah!
Speaker: To cultivate your abilities as a performing artist.
Speaker: We have things about singing, about movement as an actor, about performances, a variety of things.
Speaker: We have stuff for directors who want to grow in different areas of that.
Speaker: And then we also have things to help deepen your faith and help you think about what does it mean to be an artist and a Christian.
Speaker: An artist of the way.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: You understand the name.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But seriously, incredible lineup of guests to the point where I seriously am like any of my friends who are not Christians, just the things we have for artists like are going to be some wonderful opportunities.
Speaker: Well, except artists not of the way.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But just it's just a wonderful offering what we've put together.
Speaker: I cannot wait to share it with everybody.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: But keep an eye out on our social media, on our website, on our email newsletter.
Speaker: We should be announcing our instructors soon, and we're going to be revealing what those sessions are after that.
Speaker: So keep an eye out.
Speaker: Sign up for the email newsletter if you haven't signed up already so you can be up to date.
Speaker: Will there be billboards?
Speaker: I wish, but probably not because those are expensive.
Speaker: Follow us the way John said.
Speaker: Yeah, because you won't see us when you're driving.
Speaker: Unless you happen to cross us on the freeway.
Speaker: Cross us, pass us on the freeway.
Speaker: And we'll be talking about it then, surely.
Speaker: Just open your window.
Speaker: You'll hear.
Speaker: You'll see us in a car, just like, at the Cultivate Conference.
Speaker: Oh!
Speaker: That's our advertising plan.
Speaker: State and I are just going to walk around talking about it incessantly.
Speaker: Just open that window.
Speaker: Open that window and we'll be there.
Speaker: But yes, again, I'm just, I'm so excited.
Speaker: Registration is going to be going up in early August.
Speaker: So you'll be able to sign up there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Pricing information will be available soon.
Speaker: We're trying to make it very accessible for people to be able to come.
Speaker: We're not trying to make a profit off of this.
Speaker: We're not.
Speaker: We're trying to be nonprofit about this.
Speaker: But yes, so that is, that's my little update on Artists of the Way.
Speaker: Really exciting things in the works, things I think will interest our whole audience.
Speaker: But let's get on to the show.
Speaker: What are we talking about today, Nate?
Speaker: Well, this is the first podcast we've recorded in a while, so... Oh, yes.
Speaker: I had a big life update that you'll hear a bit about later, but I had a child, so... What child is this?
Speaker: This child...
Speaker: Who laid to rest on Mary's lap?
Speaker: It's Sanchez's lap.
Speaker: Yes, Arthur, my little son.
Speaker: He's two months old.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Actually, he'll be like two months.
Speaker: Well, nine weeks.
Speaker: You have to go by weeks for babies.
Speaker: Hopefully not for the rest of his life.
Speaker: Hopefully not like he's like 2,387 weeks old today.
Speaker: Hopefully not.
Speaker: We give him a present every week.
Speaker: We're just like, happy birthday.
Speaker: Oh, Ken, okay.
Speaker: Yeah, so, as Nate was alluding to, first episode back, we're a little...
Speaker: Oh, and having a little talk about connecting with God.
Speaker: That's what this episode's about.
Speaker: That is, yeah.
Speaker: A little bit off the cuff, but it's a really good episode.
Speaker: I think there's some rich stuff.
Speaker: We're just kind of unpacking some things that mostly I am working through.
Speaker: He was just more vulnerable than me.
Speaker: They kept that wall up.
Speaker: Shoot.
Speaker: But yes, I think it's a really good episode.
Speaker: I think you guys are going to enjoy it.
Speaker: So thank you guys for tuning in.
Speaker: Thanks for listening.
Speaker: Those are the same thing.
Speaker: We're glad you tuned that dial past all the static.
Speaker: Yeah, past all the static.
Speaker: And then finally we're like, wait, I have to do two of my rock board.
Speaker: Anyways, enjoy the episode.
Speaker: Have you been thinking about anything interesting lately?
Speaker: I have been, I've been going through a bit of a personal, like, uh, what's the word?
Speaker: Crisis is too strong a word.
Speaker: Um, I just liked your understanding.
Speaker: That's what that was.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I, I, I am, I think I'm finding out that I'm, I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know how to phrase it.
Speaker: If this is in the episode, which now me saying this will spoil the name I went in without a plan if it's in the episode.
Speaker: I'm doing like motions to try and conjure words or thoughts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Now I'm trying to grab the thought out of thin air.
Speaker: It's somewhere.
Speaker: I feel like we need some just good bro talk time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That sounds so desperate.
Speaker: That sounds so desperate.
Speaker: Let's do that.
Speaker: Oh man.
Speaker: Oh man, this is gonna be a chaotic episode.
Speaker: No, it's like...
Speaker: I've been... I guess it's like... I'm going to start throwing words out there.
Speaker: Maybe some of them will be the right words.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Pineapple.
Speaker: Oranges.
Speaker: Other things.
Speaker: No, I feel like... I'm like... I've had this sense of... Like, not...
Speaker: connecting with God and maybe being like burnt out.
Speaker: And I, I don't like either of those feelings.
Speaker: Surprisingly, I don't like being burnt out or not connecting with God.
Speaker: I've been feeling that too.
Speaker: Whoa.
Speaker: Synergy.
Speaker: Corporate synergy.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's, it's been weird.
Speaker: So yeah,
Speaker: life update for anybody who is listening to the podcast and doesn't know my life has an interesting development and that I'm now working at master arts theater.
Speaker: So I'm, I'm here at artist of the way as executive director and I'm at master arts theater as an assistant artistic director, which is an, a great job and wonderful people that I'm working with.
Speaker: And so in a lot of ways, like I basically have the life that I've always wanted now, which is insane and slightly terrifying.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: But, and I've been like, I have to like make sure that I'm like rooted in God.
Speaker: Cause I don't want to be one of those people that like achieves all their dreams, but then lose the sight of God.
Speaker: And like,
Speaker: just does the thing but i've just had this sense of like it feels like i'm just there's just so much in life that i i haven't been able to like take time or space to just be with god and like i like i'm not even sure what that looks like anymore and like intellectually i think maybe i am but like like i feel so much more unsure of what it looks like to just be with god
Speaker: than I did like in high school.
Speaker: Like I'm so envious of like 17 year old me who was like, I can just go on a walk and then I hear things from God and I just know that they're from God.
Speaker: And I'm like, that's great.
Speaker: And I don't think that, like, I think a lot of the things I heard when I was 17 was from God, but now I'm just like, I don't know if it's from God, it could just be me putting words in God's mouth.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: So then I'm like, why was I hearing so much more from God at 17?
Speaker: And why was, why did it feel like it was so much easier to just be like,
Speaker: rooted in him at that time, probably because I didn't have a job or a family and all these things.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: Like, why was that so much easier?
Speaker: And so it's just been this sort of sense of like, I'm just sort of going through the motions of life.
Speaker: And I don't necessarily feel like I'm just going through the motions in my relationship with God so much.
Speaker: Like, I don't feel like that's an apt descriptor, but it does feel like
Speaker: like a long distance relationship or like, like, like the relationship is being maintained more than it is being, um, then it's, it's thriving.
Speaker: I think that's maybe starting to turn the corner, but that's been on my mind.
Speaker: And I think God's presenting some, some things there, but the thing that's like really hit me this week was I was talking to Shay and talking through all of this.
Speaker: Um, and Shay was like, do you think maybe you're Martha from the Bible?
Speaker: And I was like, shoot, am I?
Speaker: Cause I've always seen myself as Mary.
Speaker: Cause I'm like, yeah, I'm the one that'll just go chill with God in the woods and hear a word.
Speaker: But I'm like, oh dang, I think I am Martha.
Speaker: I'm like doing all of the things that seem right to do for my calling, for who I am, um, for all of that stuff.
Speaker: but it feels like I'm doing those things on my own and like I'm now more just keeping up with them than doing them out of this overflow of love.
Speaker: Not with all of the things, but with quite a few of the things.
Speaker: And it feels like they're just so big that it's like,
Speaker: like Peter looking at the waves, but I'm also trying to manage the waves instead of just be afraid of the waves.
Speaker: So I have to make sure I know where all of the waves are going and I have to check on the status of this wave.
Speaker: And is this wave need any assistance to go where it needs to go?
Speaker: Do I have to splash the water to help it along?
Speaker: Because that would help.
Speaker: Be a wave.
Speaker: Go.
Speaker: I feel like I'm just like a father sending a son off.
Speaker: Go.
Speaker: Be free.
Speaker: Also, that's another update since the last episode is we haven't recorded one since I've been a father.
Speaker: So I'm a father.
Speaker: Congratulations.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: This is the first time you're hearing of it.
Speaker: Nate and I haven't seen each other at all since we recorded.
Speaker: That's not true.
Speaker: We did a whole show since the last time we recorded.
Speaker: We did.
Speaker: Like a play.
Speaker: And a TV show.
Speaker: Yeah, but that's coming out later.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: We didn't do a TV show.
Speaker: That would be cool if we did a TV show.
Speaker: Not good.
Speaker: Yeah, that's kind of been the thing that I'm like...
Speaker: processing and trying to figure out.
Speaker: Um, and that's kind of coinciding with me wanting to get back into a bit of like an intellectual study of, of scripture and of theology.
Speaker: Cause I think I've been missing that since graduating.
Speaker: So trying to figure out how does that fit into my life?
Speaker: So I'm, so those are kind of intersecting to like me just wondering, I feel like God is pulling me
Speaker: in a direction and telling me you need to just sit at my feet.
Speaker: And I'm like, what does that mean when you're, yeah, practically when you're, you're not embodied on earth as a person, maybe you are in some sense embodied in the church, but like, I don't think that God's just calling me to go and be with the church and like be around that has, that has value for sure.
Speaker: I don't know, maybe he is, maybe that is the way that he would mean to minister to me, but it's like, you don't, you, there's not a physical body here that I can point to unless you are wanting me to just go and like be in the presence of my brothers and sisters in Christ and just rest there and that be your conduit.
Speaker: And I, I can hear your words through scripture, but I,
Speaker: I love scripture.
Speaker: I think it's an amazing book.
Speaker: So anything that I say here.
Speaker: Pro scripture.
Speaker: I am right here.
Speaker: I'm pro scripture on multiple levels.
Speaker: Sometime I think I was thinking about this as I was drifting off last night was like, we should talk about like the artistry of scripture sometime because it is totally a work of art.
Speaker: I think it's more it's more than that.
Speaker: But I think it's also a work of art.
Speaker: It's incredible.
Speaker: I love that book on so many levels, but it is a two to 5,000 year old book written in a completely different culture and language style.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Style, very different priorities for what it's doing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so.
Speaker: A lot of times it can be like, I'm reading the same description of this thing again.
Speaker: And oftentimes those things will still hit me.
Speaker: It takes extra work to put your extra imaginative work because it's not like...
Speaker: a modern novel that puts you so much in the head of the protagonist or the narrator.
Speaker: It's not super emotionally focused.
Speaker: And so then if it's like, well, what I need is to sit.
Speaker: Yeah, because you want to emotionally connect with Christ.
Speaker: And for me, that can be hard when Scripture doesn't seem always that...
Speaker: right inherently emotional right i know it can a lot of times when i just read scripture and it is a very emotional experience but like with like jesus himself sometimes it's easier than others and it can be oh yeah i think it's way easier with that yeah but so then it's like well i i could go to that but i don't know where to go and
Speaker: All these basic questions that you would think with a degree in ministry that I should have solved by now.
Speaker: But I think I need to go to seminary to solve that one.
Speaker: And then I'll have made it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's how that works.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If that doesn't work, then it's the PhD.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then if that doesn't work, a doctorate.
Speaker: And then if that doesn't work, shh.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm trying to think of another equivalent.
Speaker: I can't.
Speaker: Another PhD.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I just go more insular.
Speaker: First, I get a PhD just generally on biblical studies.
Speaker: And then I go even further and do New Testament studies.
Speaker: And then I go even further and do Jesus.
Speaker: Christology.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And then I decide to just focus on the passion.
Speaker: And then I decide to focus on just get multiple PhDs and just like a PhD rabbit hole.
Speaker: I feel like I would, I love the idea of getting a PhD, but I'm not sure I would be good at a PhD program.
Speaker: It just seems like it's so intense.
Speaker: Yeah, man, that sounds hard.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Although it does sound kind of fun to have to like present a thing and defend it at the end.
Speaker: Like that's just a very active thing as opposed to I did my exam.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm graduating.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: But yeah, so then it feels like, well, I don't know for sure.
Speaker: Like, I know you're here, but like, I don't always have a sense that you are physically present.
Speaker: I know that you care for me and maybe have things to say to me, but A, I don't, I have to be able to listen to receive that and B, I don't like, if I feel like I hear something from you, how do I know for sure that that is you versus that being me just being,
Speaker: being like, he said things like this in the past, which sometimes I think is an accurate sort of faith remembrance thing of this is how he operates.
Speaker: This is what Christ says.
Speaker: I think almost any time that you sin and then ask for forgiveness, not almost any time, any time that you sin and ask for forgiveness, you know that God's answer is I forgive you.
Speaker: And you know that his response in that is some sort of gentle, loving restoration and push to
Speaker: be better in whatever way that means, whether that be through, uh, repentance with others or yada, yada, yada.
Speaker: But if it's like, I don't even know quite what I need and I just need to sit with God and let him give me whatever I need, but then I'm not sure what it is I'm receiving.
Speaker: It's just this very complex, weird, tricky thing.
Speaker: So I'm sort of navigating it.
Speaker: I'm trying to just carve out the
Speaker: some time.
Speaker: I have, I have a more free schedule now, which is nice.
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: That's, that's a really nice benefit of the job.
Speaker: Um, so my mornings are longer, so I'm trying to give myself some, like a half hour where it's like, this is just God's time.
Speaker: And so I'll do, sometimes I'll do morning prayer in that, but I try and do morning prayer
Speaker: earlier because morning prayer is so structured.
Speaker: I kind of want it to be unstructured God time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Combine your, your roots.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So morning prayer sort of tends the ground for the spontaneous stuff.
Speaker: And then I just sort of like that.
Speaker: Let there be whatever God wants in that half an hour.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, do you ever take a walk?
Speaker: Yes, I love walks.
Speaker: So yeah, there's a park that I'm going to.
Speaker: I've gone once or twice now before going to work, but I'll go do a couple laps and then sit.
Speaker: It was very nice.
Speaker: The birds were all out.
Speaker: There was a goldfinch.
Speaker: That's the one yellow jacket came to mind.
Speaker: I was like, that's not, is that even a bird?
Speaker: I feel like that's a bee.
Speaker: It's a bee.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This goldfinch is wearing a yellow jacket.
Speaker: A giant yellow jacket just flying through the air.
Speaker: Very intimidating.
Speaker: It would be terrifying.
Speaker: Those are the real murder bees.
Speaker: I feel like the murder bees were the most like anticlimactic.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: We never saw them.
Speaker: We never saw them.
Speaker: That was like the deleted scene in 2020.
Speaker: Was like, we got the setup for the murder bees, but then the COVID plotline took over.
Speaker: And so the murder bees just didn't come back because there wasn't enough screen time for the murder bees.
Speaker: Wait, weren't we supposed to have murder bees?
Speaker: It's fine.
Speaker: We can bring them back in eight seasons.
Speaker: Would you rather have murder bees or COVID again?
Speaker: Oh, well, me personally or the world?
Speaker: You personally.
Speaker: Me personally, COVID, because COVID's never been... The first time I had it was really bad.
Speaker: I guess I mean, would you personally rather have COVID come to the world or murder bees?
Speaker: Well, COVID's kind of still in the world.
Speaker: It is not of the world.
Speaker: The world was made through COVID.
Speaker: Wait, what?
Speaker: It's not of COVID.
Speaker: So, hang on.
Speaker: Now I'm getting really nerdy and theological because my comment was not worthy of that.
Speaker: We're going there.
Speaker: Ancient theologians are like, God made the world through Christ in some sense, because Christ is the word.
Speaker: And it was with the word that God, that God created the world.
Speaker: So it was through Christ.
Speaker: So if the world was made through COVID, then you've just said that Jesus was COVID or COVID was Jesus.
Speaker: I was just kidding.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I love, we should just have that in our back pocket, any intellectual conversation that we have with anybody.
Speaker: Somebody like, it's like, that point's ridiculous.
Speaker: You can just be like, I was just kidding.
Speaker: Wouldn't that be a power move?
Speaker: You're in a debate.
Speaker: Just like drop a ridiculous point and they spend their entire rebuttal time rebutting it.
Speaker: And then you come up and you're like, I was just kidding.
Speaker: So here's my real point.
Speaker: You just wasted like five, ten minutes of the debate.
Speaker: You like don't even use all your time.
Speaker: You just go up and you're just like... Eyes as kin.
Speaker: That's a great idea.
Speaker: I feel like we should figure out a way to do this.
Speaker: Yeah, you said you were... Were you having similar thoughts?
Speaker: Some similar.
Speaker: I don't think exactly the same.
Speaker: I don't feel...
Speaker: like that disconnected with God, but I definitely have times where it's like, I want to feel more, more, I want to feel more disconnected.
Speaker: Then when we come back, it'll be even better.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Trying really hard not to spit out my hot chocolate on the white carpet.
Speaker: Um, yeah.
Speaker: No, but I've, like, for my whole life felt like a pressure to be like, oh, I don't know that I'm right with God.
Speaker: Like, I often wake up in the morning and that's just my baseline feeling, which I think a lot of people have.
Speaker: But it's not right.
Speaker: And it was cool hearing that, like...
Speaker: Shay kind of called you out like that you're like a Martha thing.
Speaker: And it was nice, like, cause the other day, like Ellie called me out in like a similar way that she thought like in the most loving, nice way.
Speaker: Shay was very abusive to me when she called me out.
Speaker: She threw a cup at me and said, you, no, no.
Speaker: Clean up this, Martha.
Speaker: How about some more work, Martha?
Speaker: But like, like Ali saying, the idea like that, I think you, do you, I think you think you have to take care of everything and there's something that we need to sit with.
Speaker: I think there's truth in that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, but like then applied it to like my relationship with God with like, um,
Speaker: like you just do have a good relationship with God because it's not dependent on you.
Speaker: That's just the status that you have is good relationship with God.
Speaker: And it gets confusing with like, well, what if I like, what if I sin and then we're not good?
Speaker: And like, how do I know if I'm in a state of sin and stuff like that?
Speaker: And like, but what if I'm not feeling it?
Speaker: Well, I guess that's the classic.
Speaker: You don't need to feel it.
Speaker: And probably worrying about feeling it is counterproductive to actually feeling it.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But, um, no, I had to add some recent, like good focus time with God and that felt good to be connected with him.
Speaker: I think just in so many areas of my life, I just need to relax.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Max my like personal relationships and with my relationship with God and things go better then.
Speaker: And I, in one of my recent walks, sometimes I take a walk in the afternoon at work and try to have sometimes with God and it's like, okay, I should, I should pray or maybe I should sing.
Speaker: And then like, oh, well maybe I'll just,
Speaker: not try to do anything, just be open to like him, like saying something to me.
Speaker: And I don't, it doesn't always feel like he does, but it feels like in general, it feels like better after those walks though.
Speaker: Which is weird.
Speaker: And I, I don't,
Speaker: I don't, it could be, I think it's probably a both, but part of that I think is like a psychological thing of like, let's just get some quiet for a minute.
Speaker: Like, I wonder if a lot of what God is saying to people right now is just, just be quiet.
Speaker: Cause you need quiet, you know, not even like, I think he like be quiet with me.
Speaker: A, because you should be with me.
Speaker: B, because your world is so noisy right now.
Speaker: Everybody just needs more quiet.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker: And isn't that like a classic, like, oh, I know this is a good friend because we can be together and be quiet.
Speaker: That's my favorite thing as an introvert, which nobody believes me when I say I'm an introvert, but I'm like...
Speaker: Most of the people that I'm with, I'm just so talkative around.
Speaker: And then there's some people where I can just arrive and sit quietly.
Speaker: And maybe I look a little bit grumpy, but I'm not really grumpy.
Speaker: And they know that I'm not grumpy.
Speaker: I'm just there and it's nice to be there with them.
Speaker: And I'm not saying a whole lot, you know, but...
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And if that's how you feel with some of your best friends on earth, isn't that like God's like, I'm your true best friend.
Speaker: Just be that way with me.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: How much more fruit will your father in heaven be good just sitting with you and with the quiet?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Be still and know that I am God.
Speaker: So what does that mean to know that I am God?
Speaker: be like, hey, you're God.
Speaker: That's cool.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That he's taking care of things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I've been thinking I need to reflect on the promises that God gives us again.
Speaker: One of the things I've been reflecting on since becoming a father is very cliche, is thinking about God's sort of relationship and view of me in light of my view and relationship with my son.
Speaker: Yeah, no, it's really cool.
Speaker: It is cool.
Speaker: It's crazy.
Speaker: But one of the things that...
Speaker: has struck me.
Speaker: It hasn't like, it hasn't, it's been more intellectually stimulating than emotionally stimulating for me thus far.
Speaker: You know, when I, that was one of the things I was looking forward to when I had a kid and it didn't,
Speaker: strike me at first and I like wanted it to, but I think even as time goes on, I've had more times of that like striking of like, like I just love this kid and stuff.
Speaker: Not always like with a special reason, just like looking at them just lying asleep in bed.
Speaker: It's like, oh man, I just love this kid.
Speaker: And it's like, oh, that's how God feels about me.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Yeah, I had this moment.
Speaker: I think he was crying for food.
Speaker: And I was just like, it's just crazy that all of his needs are right there.
Speaker: You know, like to be met.
Speaker: Like he needs love and comfort and we're there to comfort him.
Speaker: He needs food and we are there to feed him.
Speaker: He needs a diaper changed and we are there to change the diaper.
Speaker: That's basically all that he needs right now.
Speaker: You know, but it's like...
Speaker: Those are big things for this little guy.
Speaker: And he has this crazy dynamic adventurous life.
Speaker: He's clearly has a huge emotional range.
Speaker: He clearly is going through character arcs.
Speaker: I heard he smiled at you for the first time.
Speaker: He did smile at me!
Speaker: That's so cool.
Speaker: Like a couple days ago.
Speaker: It was very nice.
Speaker: Yeah?
Speaker: Yay.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker: This will happen more, hopefully.
Speaker: It will.
Speaker: That'll be so nice.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: But just like the... And I think it doubly hit me because...
Speaker: I feel like a baby is so unaware of everything.
Speaker: Come on, kid.
Speaker: Not in a bad way.
Speaker: Like, I'm almost envious.
Speaker: But like, he's just vibing in this unaware world.
Speaker: And then all of a sudden, he's like, ah, I have a need.
Speaker: I don't know what to do, but cry out.
Speaker: And then that need is met by his parents.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: ah, I'm sitting in poop.
Speaker: I don't know what to do, but to cry out, I have messed everything up in my diaper.
Speaker: Ah, and then his parents are there.
Speaker: If we notice that his diaper is dirty, otherwise he sits in there for a while.
Speaker: God always notices when your diaper is dirty.
Speaker: And he's not just thinking, ew, you gross person sitting in a dirty diaper.
Speaker: Why would you sit in a dirty diaper?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like he just had a huge big blowout, which I think is the first big blowout he had like yesterday.
Speaker: So it's like all down his leg.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like, oh, this is the worst.
Speaker: But I never thought he was the worst for it.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so just that, that I don't, there's, there's something.
Speaker: And it's weird because for most of my life, I feel like I've been so dependent on, on God, but I think that that's just become so practical in my mind of like, oh yes, God will meet my needs financially.
Speaker: And like, um, for my wellbeing physically and, and, and maybe for my time, but I've stopped believing that he could like meet, no, no, I haven't stopped believing it, but I haven't, I haven't applied.
Speaker: I haven't applied it as much to like emotional needs and what, what's going on, where am I burnt out?
Speaker: Where do I need help?
Speaker: You know, what are, what are the needs that I have to, you know, do I need somebody to come help take care of Arthur some night?
Speaker: Do I need somebody to help?
Speaker: with a project for artists of the way um do i need different volunteers for something at master arts do i need just time or space or something do i need some some opportunities for quiet um that i can just bring those to him and trust that he'll provide it somehow which for some reason feels more i don't even know why for some reason that feels like a bigger ask to me than like
Speaker: A house like our house, I contend that God gave us because when Shay and I were engaged, I was like, Lord, Shay really wants a house.
Speaker: Would you give us a house, please?
Speaker: Because Shay wants a house.
Speaker: So if we could have a house as soon as possible, because she wants to make a space and make it her own, that would be great.
Speaker: And then we got this house only a couple years later, which was way sooner than we were expecting.
Speaker: And it was just the perfect situation.
Speaker: Everything lined up perfectly.
Speaker: It was clearly God.
Speaker: So for some reason, me saying, hey God, could I have a house feels like more achievable for God than to be like, Lord, could I have a little bit of extra time to breathe?
Speaker: You know, or... Yeah, do you think it's because there's like a element where you could provide your own
Speaker: happiness or you think you should just buck up and, and handle it?
Speaker: Well, there's definitely a buck up and hand.
Speaker: I'm, I'm definitely a sufferer of America's pull yourself up by your bootstraps and grind and do the thing sort of, uh, culture we've all inherited.
Speaker: So there's definitely some of that.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: I think maybe some of it too is like that feels like something that I just need to, if I were just a bit wiser, I could manage a bit better.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, or if I made the right sacrifices, then I would have the space in my life for God.
Speaker: So what are you going to give up, John?
Speaker: You know, which sometimes I think is the case.
Speaker: Like when she and I were talking, she was like, you just need to make time for that connection with God, even if it's hard to do.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which I think I struggle with a lot of times.
Speaker: Cause I also have that need of like, I feel that feeling of like, I have to do, I have to do the thing.
Speaker: I have to fix the thing.
Speaker: I have to, I have to do all these things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And how can I take time for that when I, when I need to be like taking care of the family or I need to sleep.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know if it's selfish.
Speaker: I don't think it is, but it feels selfish.
Speaker: No, we need that.
Speaker: I mean, I'm speaking to myself too, but we need that fuel because that's what we run on God.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so if we're just running on empty, we're not running.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: We're just kind of flapping around like a jellyfish.
Speaker: It's not even a car.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: That's how bad it is.
Speaker: Can jellyfish flop on land?
Speaker: Can they drive cars?
Speaker: Well, they can't drive cars.
Speaker: They might be able to start a car with their electric shock.
Speaker: Ooh, yeah.
Speaker: So they might be able to start a car, but then they'd be out of luck.
Speaker: I don't know if they can move on land or not.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: If anybody knows about jellyfishes...
Speaker: Not much, I imagine.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: To like hoist themselves up and move?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Or would they kind of snake?
Speaker: I don't even know what muscle control they have.
Speaker: Do they have any muscle control or do they just float in the water?
Speaker: Do they move intentionally?
Speaker: They do, don't they?
Speaker: They must.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But there's, so there's chance for this to get better with more loose schedule now.
Speaker: Yes, that's true.
Speaker: And we're, I'm already like,
Speaker: kind of working on that.
Speaker: And I think there, there's just something nice of like being like, this is just for God.
Speaker: Like the, was it, it might've been, it might've been yesterday.
Speaker: She's like pulled something.
Speaker: And so I was trying to leave by eight so I could have the half hour of God time.
Speaker: And then I felt like,
Speaker: Oh, yeah, this is something.
Speaker: I felt like God was like, oh, sorry, that's your foot.
Speaker: Nate and I playing footsie under the camera.
Speaker: I don't know if God said it or if it just felt Christ-like.
Speaker: So I was like, this seems like how he wants me to spend this God time.
Speaker: But I was like, I'm just going to stay and give her massages instead.
Speaker: And then I'll go to the theater and go to work.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that just felt that was a really good start to my day.
Speaker: And just the there's something nice of like just that open handedness of God, you can use this time how you want.
Speaker: But so that's something that's interesting.
Speaker: I think that I'm sort of also chewing on in my relationship.
Speaker: or not really my relationship with God, but more my function as a person in the body of Christ and also my calling and also then how that's affecting my emotional life and my relationship with God.
Speaker: But like the imper... impertence?
Speaker: The importance... The impertinence!
Speaker: The impertinence!
Speaker: The importance of...
Speaker: serving and working and ministering.
Speaker: Like that's the word that I think of, but like actively doing good to people for the sake of Christ, trying to meet needs for the sake of Christ, not just to meet the need, but to try and be a presence of Christ in their life, to love them like Christ would love them.
Speaker: There was a homily, I think it was over Holy Week at some point, or not Holy Week, but like Lent.
Speaker: I don't remember the context of it at all, but I remember the point in my head of the importance of the balance of everything where we have to receive from God.
Speaker: Absolutely, that needs to be where we're rooted.
Speaker: But we also need to be giving out or we get like there needs to be a flow there.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Stop it up.
Speaker: then it's like- It's stagnant.
Speaker: It gets stagnant.
Speaker: Like a pond.
Speaker: You get sort of overfilled and bulbous, you know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We had a while back some servants at my church about that.
Speaker: how we need to, our church needs to be a river and not a pond and rivers take in and they flow out.
Speaker: And there's so much cleaner than ponds.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: Ponds are so gross.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Have you ever swam in a pond?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Very gross.
Speaker: Very gross experience.
Speaker: Do not recommend.
Speaker: I've done it a couple times.
Speaker: Sounds gross.
Speaker: It is pretty gross.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, but go ahead.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so, I don't know.
Speaker: I've been chewing on that as well.
Speaker: I just think it's very easy for us as people to get focused in on one thing and be like, okay, I'm working on this one thing.
Speaker: And then you just overcorrect that way.
Speaker: Um, it's true.
Speaker: And so I'm, I'm, I'm, and it's weird that I guess God is working on both of these things in me at the same time.
Speaker: So maybe he was like, ha ha John, you can't do that thing.
Speaker: But, um, yeah, it feels like there's this emphasis as well of not just
Speaker: maybe God's just reorienting my ministerial life, but of not just make time for me and receive for me because it's good for you, but also, hey, John, you do kind of need to be, you need to be serving.
Speaker: You need to be connecting with people.
Speaker: You have to be living a life that is in service of others out of your, and that service flows from your love of Christ and what you receive from Christ.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: Maybe those two things have just sort of died in me over the last couple of years.
Speaker: Because 2024 was just so full.
Speaker: Maybe not died, but like, what's the word?
Speaker: Atrophied?
Speaker: Shrunk?
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: Cause last year was so crazy.
Speaker: Um, yeah, I think it can feel easy that like life is so crazy.
Speaker: My, I just, as a status do not have time for anything else or anybody else.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And, and to like, there's been a couple of big things where it's like, I've all, it,
Speaker: I've, and this is, this is probably a failing of mine, but I so often feel like I have to manage all of these things and keep an eye on them.
Speaker: But I feel like over the last couple of years, just with everything that happened in 2024, some really great things and some really hard things.
Speaker: And then, you know, 2025 and the pregnancy and Arthur, which has been wonderful and job change and all of that.
Speaker: Like, it feels like my ability to manage all of the things is just sort of blown up and like I've lost my
Speaker: Like I've kind of lost hold of everything.
Speaker: Like everything is just sort of, it's like the Big Bang.
Speaker: I was like the Big Bang where I was like holding all this matter and like it got so tight and then all the matter like exploded.
Speaker: But somehow, as in the Big Bang theory, it all just was fine somehow.
Speaker: Explain that to me.
Speaker: Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker: Stop, John, don't take pot shots.
Speaker: I'm using it for an illustration.
Speaker: Go ahead, they'll take pot shots and fire engagement.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: Nope, John, stay on track.
Speaker: Almost weird to do a whole thing, a big thing.
Speaker: Not the show, the actual theory.
Speaker: We did.
Speaker: Yeah, like it exploded, but somehow it's like just, okay, like life is really great, but like it's all its own living thing now.
Speaker: It's like...
Speaker: I feel like I can't manage it.
Speaker: Like I'm just being carried along and it's all I can do to, to keep an eye on all these things.
Speaker: And so it feels like one of those things, I guess was my, my, my ability or, or belief that I could manage things.
Speaker: the balance of my relationship with God, of him pouring into me and me serving others.
Speaker: And maybe that's all it is, has been just a deconstruction of my ability to do it myself, to do any of these things by myself.
Speaker: And now when I'm still doing all these things and doing them at least serviceably, I think, um,
Speaker: It feels like God is coming back in and it's being like, Hey, let's reorient you back into the essentials of the Christian life of what you're supposed to do, which is be loved by me and then love the world because of me and also love me.
Speaker: Like that's part of it.
Speaker: And do doing all of that is loving him.
Speaker: Um, yeah, but those are, those are weird things to hold in.
Speaker: Tension.
Speaker: Tension.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They're, they're weird things to hold in both hands.
Speaker: They're like two magnets pushing against each other.
Speaker: Um, and so it's doubly weird to have him like working on both those things in me at the same time, but also cool.
Speaker: Cause yeah, you can easily go one way or the other.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's like their passage from Paul.
Speaker: That's like,
Speaker: working hard with all this, with all of God's strength or something with something like that, which is really beautiful.
Speaker: That's like, oh, it's like we're working, but we're working with God's strength, not with our own.
Speaker: And yeah, I think that like open handed imagery that you said is really important.
Speaker: It's been helpful to me.
Speaker: But so you have the heart for it.
Speaker: You want to serve people and you want to be with God.
Speaker: That's a great place to be.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: You want him to help you do those things.
Speaker: You can't do them by yourself.
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: Just let that heart continue to be open and he'll make the way to have it happen through his power.
Speaker: Because he's doing it.
Speaker: He's doing the thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like me with the baby.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He's doing it, not me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I feel like this episode just turned into a John therapy session.
Speaker: I think it's very relatable things, though, that everyone goes through.
Speaker: I'm a relatable character.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm well written.
Speaker: You are.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Do we have anything else to cover in the episode?
Speaker: Just the curtain is completely pulled back for this episode.
Speaker: We can give an introduction and then we can start at any point that we want.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Should we do an outro?
Speaker: Should we say bye to everybody?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Or we can just cut them off here.
Speaker: Bye.
Speaker: Well...
Speaker: Hopefully this has been a nice vulnerable thing for people to hear and that people may be going through these same things.
Speaker: I think everyone struggles with knowing where they are with God and wanting it to be in a good place.
Speaker: They ought to be wanting it to be in a good place.
Speaker: You better be if you are to proactively do it.
Speaker: And he's the one taking care of us.
Speaker: And I love your analogy with your baby.
Speaker: So we just need to...
Speaker: cry out to him and not trust in ourself too much and trust that if we have the heart to be with him and to do what he wants, then he'll help us do that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Thank you guys for listening.
Speaker: If you guys have any things that you do that are like your ways to connect with God, rhythms that have been helpful for you, either in a current season or throughout your life, share those.
Speaker: Because those are helpful.
Speaker: Those are helpful to me.
Speaker: I'm sure those are helpful to other people.
Speaker: Thank you guys again.
Speaker: If you like the podcast, if you want to share it, that would be dope because that's how we...
Speaker: are shared yeah yeah um comment like all of that all that jazz um yeah uh if you want to know more about some things that ours the way is doing we we talked about some of it in the intro go to our website sign up for our new email newsletter if you're at all excited about that please share that as well i'm so excited about uh both the conference and also uh other projects that we have down the road are super exciting so
Speaker: Subscribe to our email newsletter, follow us on social media, or share those if you want to get the word out for those and keep an eye on the website because we'll be posting updates shortly.
Speaker: But thank you guys again so much for listening.
Speaker: Yeah, thanks for being here.
Speaker: Yeah, God bless, guys.
Speaker: Bye.
