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Goodness and Hope in Today's Art
51 Plays3 months ago
In this episode Jon and Nate discuss a recent shift in what our culture's art focuses on, and unpack how goodness and hope can be found in stories from the last decade, both dark and hopeful.
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Surprise Topic
00:00:03
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome back to Artists of the Way.
00:00:06
Speaker
I'm John.
00:00:06
Speaker
John, I almost said Nate.
00:00:09
Speaker
I'm John.
00:00:10
Speaker
And I'm Nate.
00:00:11
Speaker
And we are the hosts of Artists of the Way.
00:00:16
Speaker
Nate sprung that on me.
00:00:18
Speaker
I didn't know it.
00:00:19
Speaker
No, definitely not.
00:00:23
Speaker
I don't really know what's happening with this episode either because Nate just has a vibe and he's not letting me in on the vibe.
00:00:28
Speaker
Well, if I say too much, we'll have talked about it off camera and then we won't have anything to talk about fresh.
Shift from Dark to Optimistic Narratives
00:00:35
Speaker
Yes, he has good reasons for not letting me in the bar.
00:00:37
Speaker
This may not be a good way to do a podcast.
00:00:39
Speaker
It could be a good way to do a podcast.
00:00:41
Speaker
We'll see.
00:00:43
Speaker
We'll see.
00:00:43
Speaker
You have a topic.
00:00:44
Speaker
Nate has a topic.
00:00:45
Speaker
What's your topic, Nate?
00:00:46
Speaker
Just start us.
00:00:47
Speaker
Just jump us in.
00:00:47
Speaker
Sure.
00:00:48
Speaker
Pull us in.
00:00:48
Speaker
So... Kicking and screaming.
00:00:50
Speaker
No!
00:00:51
Speaker
I don't want to talk to you!
00:00:55
Speaker
I was kicking my feet for anybody who couldn't see, which was everybody, because it was below the shot.
00:01:00
Speaker
Even if you're on video, you didn't see that.
00:01:01
Speaker
You didn't see it.
00:01:02
Speaker
It was my little secret for me.
00:01:05
Speaker
It was good.
00:01:09
Speaker
So, does it seem at all to you like there may be like a vibe shift in like culture and movies and media?
00:01:21
Speaker
No, the world's the same as it has been for 2,000 years.
00:01:26
Speaker
I disagree.
00:01:27
Speaker
Controversial podcast.
00:01:31
Speaker
No, absolutely.
00:01:33
Speaker
And it's been very interesting to see.
00:01:36
Speaker
So I assume you're talking about from sort of a more dour, gritty, sort of like dark reboot era to something that's more simplistic.
00:01:45
Speaker
Exactly.
00:01:45
Speaker
Doesn't that seem to be a thing?
00:01:47
Speaker
It absolutely is.
00:01:48
Speaker
I'm not an expert on what's going on in the culture, but that seems to be...
00:01:52
Speaker
the thing I definitely have eyes on the like microcosm of film culture.
00:01:58
Speaker
So I think I can speak with some authority on what's happening there.
00:02:01
Speaker
And I think generally it is things are tending in a more optimistic direction, which is interesting because I think anybody is not optimistic about the world right now.
Cultural Anxiety and Return to Past Values
00:02:10
Speaker
You know, I think for the most part, like like everybody feels it seems like, well, I let me let me take that back.
00:02:18
Speaker
Take it back in the
00:02:23
Speaker
sort of cultural discussion, it feels like generally both sides of the aisle and like different people are just like, we're so close to collapse and catastrophe, you know, and we've got to like save it.
00:02:36
Speaker
I don't know if that's true.
00:02:37
Speaker
No?
00:02:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:38
Speaker
I think there's definitely a lot of people that are there.
00:02:41
Speaker
Sure.
00:02:41
Speaker
I don't think it's everyone.
00:02:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:44
Speaker
But.
00:02:44
Speaker
Well, I don't think it's everyone, but I think that that's...
00:02:48
Speaker
I think that's what we're seeing in like our news media and in sort of like... What are the news media?
00:02:55
Speaker
They just want the clicks.
00:02:57
Speaker
They do.
00:02:57
Speaker
I think the news media is incorrect.
00:02:59
Speaker
But I think...
00:03:02
Speaker
There's a lot of anxiety, let me say that.
00:03:05
Speaker
I think that there's a lot of anxiety in the world, which is like factually, the numbers of anxiety right now are higher than the other.
00:03:13
Speaker
So we're living in an age where people at least feel less safe and secure, even if it's their own anxiety, they at least feel that way.
00:03:21
Speaker
And so I do think it is interesting to see that in that time where everybody is feeling so anxious and are looking at the world, the thing that they're turning to, like,
00:03:32
Speaker
They are like, well, maybe we should stop deconstructing everything.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:03:36
Speaker
And maybe we should look at what could a good world be.
00:03:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think.
00:03:42
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:03:42
Speaker
Which isn't certainly all artists.
00:03:44
Speaker
Like, there's a lot of hits.
00:03:46
Speaker
Like, horror movies are having a big renaissance right now.
Art and Gritty Narratives: A Renaissance
00:03:50
Speaker
And generally, I don't think this ends well.
00:03:52
Speaker
I just saw a trailer for a very interesting horror movie.
00:03:56
Speaker
I'm not normally a horror movie guy.
00:03:58
Speaker
I'm totally derailing the conversation.
00:03:59
Speaker
What is it?
00:03:59
Speaker
But it's a horror movie from the perspective of a dog.
00:04:04
Speaker
Oh, so its owner gets possessed.
00:04:07
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:04:07
Speaker
And it's from the dog's perspective trying to save the owner.
00:04:11
Speaker
And apparently it's like great and moving.
00:04:13
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:04:14
Speaker
See.
00:04:15
Speaker
I'm not a horror movie person.
00:04:17
Speaker
I've not really given them a fair shot, but I'm not though.
00:04:22
Speaker
But I feel like even though we've talked about this, that at least with a lot of horror movies, they're grounded in some kind of, they're like real things.
00:04:34
Speaker
There's real good and evil.
00:04:35
Speaker
Right.
00:04:36
Speaker
For one.
00:04:36
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:04:39
Speaker
And so that still can maybe go with this theme of like we're tired of deconstructing, we're tired of being anxious.
00:04:51
Speaker
Sure.
00:04:54
Speaker
And it also seems like people want to return.
00:04:57
Speaker
And maybe part of the being anxious is people want to return to some of the good old days, the good old things, which doesn't in itself hold the answers just by going back to the past because the past.
00:05:09
Speaker
past had hard things too.
00:05:11
Speaker
And those surface things aren't going to fix things.
00:05:13
Speaker
But there are some good things from those that we lost in our sort of the last 20, 30 years of exploring.
00:05:20
Speaker
And there were good things that we got with exploring this very sort of deconstructionist, gritty sort of
00:05:27
Speaker
Stories and art but there were good things that we lost as well, right?
00:05:31
Speaker
So I think there's a there's a move to try and regain some of those for sure right and it's like a lot of like like Gen Z people like girls are like into knitting now and like like the grandma Hobbies and stuff like that and
00:05:49
Speaker
And I think my parents are trying to keep their kids away from social media and like screens and stuff because we're like seeing we grew up in this age of moving forward with the new, the tech and throw off the old.
00:06:07
Speaker
Our parents were terrible.
00:06:09
Speaker
Great.
00:06:09
Speaker
And stuff.
00:06:10
Speaker
It worked wonderfully.
00:06:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:11
Speaker
I have no complaints at all.
00:06:14
Speaker
You're doing well.
Optimism vs. Skepticism in Superhero Films
00:06:16
Speaker
I am doing well.
00:06:16
Speaker
See?
00:06:17
Speaker
So.
00:06:17
Speaker
Because of the internet.
00:06:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:19
Speaker
The internet has only had ever a positive impact in my life.
00:06:24
Speaker
As you can tell from the sliver of my life you get to see as a podcast audience.
00:06:29
Speaker
It's pretty good.
00:06:30
Speaker
It's pretty great.
00:06:32
Speaker
I have this one room that's really good.
00:06:34
Speaker
This is a lovely room.
00:06:36
Speaker
And I have this one friend.
00:06:37
Speaker
It's great.
00:06:38
Speaker
And how much did the internet created this room?
00:06:41
Speaker
100% of this room.
00:06:44
Speaker
We're in the matrix right now.
00:06:47
Speaker
Yeah, I could bend a spoon if I wanted to.
00:06:50
Speaker
But I don't want to.
00:06:52
Speaker
With my hands.
00:06:53
Speaker
Oh, that's the weakling's way to do it.
00:06:56
Speaker
To be very strong to do it.
00:07:00
Speaker
But I wondered, there seems like, yeah, a move towards, and so an example of this that we were talking about is comparing the last two movie iterations of Superman.
00:07:15
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:16
Speaker
And I do find this conversation we're having interesting.
00:07:19
Speaker
So this is sort of a conversation.
00:07:21
Speaker
Good, good.
00:07:22
Speaker
Let's keep going.
00:07:24
Speaker
It's very affirming.
00:07:26
Speaker
This is sort of a conversation that's been on the docket for us for a while.
00:07:31
Speaker
It was going to be one of the last ones that we did before I had the baby.
00:07:35
Speaker
OK, yeah.
00:07:35
Speaker
And then we were going to do it another time.
00:07:38
Speaker
And then I was like, I've just seen Superman.
00:07:40
Speaker
I don't feel like talking about this thing.
00:07:42
Speaker
And now we're talking about it now.
00:07:45
Speaker
And that conversation was I wanted to dissect sort of ugliness and grittiness in art.
00:07:52
Speaker
Right.
00:07:53
Speaker
And then I saw Superman and I was like, well, I still appreciate that.
00:07:56
Speaker
But man, Superman was just great.
00:07:57
Speaker
If anybody has not seen Superman.
00:08:00
Speaker
It's lovely.
00:08:01
Speaker
It's just about being human and good.
00:08:07
Speaker
That's like what it is, and kind.
00:08:08
Speaker
Like, that's its thing.
00:08:10
Speaker
It's just meant to be nice, good humanity.
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:13
Speaker
You know?
00:08:15
Speaker
And it's great.
00:08:17
Speaker
So highly recommend.
00:08:19
Speaker
But that's like...
00:08:21
Speaker
That's kind of an old fashioned simple message, isn't it?
00:08:25
Speaker
And haven't we moved beyond that?
00:08:28
Speaker
But really people want to move back to that, right?
00:08:31
Speaker
I would even say, I'm going to add an interesting layer here.
00:08:36
Speaker
I think even when you were in the deconstruction era, I think that ultimately those messages that ended up resonating were still those simple messages.
00:08:46
Speaker
So I'm thinking about what are those stories that would be like dark and gritty that I love.
00:08:51
Speaker
Logan, which I've talked about before.
00:08:53
Speaker
At the end, the great value of that is he learned to care for others and for his family.
00:09:00
Speaker
Daredevil, which I haven't talked about, but I hope to talk about a little bit more on this episode because it is my favorite TV show.
00:09:05
Speaker
I've talked to you about it before.
00:09:08
Speaker
So dark and gritty.
00:09:09
Speaker
So like, my word, if you want to watch a show and then feel unsafe walking at home, walking home at night, Daredevil's a good one to watch.
00:09:18
Speaker
Cool.
00:09:20
Speaker
It's like, yeah, I want to be scared walking in my car.
00:09:22
Speaker
Good to know.
00:09:24
Speaker
It like is, but yet, and part of it is like emphasized because Daredevil is Catholic.
00:09:34
Speaker
So the main character is Catholic.
00:09:35
Speaker
Right.
00:09:37
Speaker
Seasons will really all of them deal with his faith really is a core central thing and really it always sort of comes back to That's what that's what keeps him human is his faith and his relationship to others and that's always sort of the thing that grounds him and especially in the third and final season, okay, because the third and final season he's basically deconstructing and it's insane and
00:10:08
Speaker
he comes back around to his face and has just a beautiful speech about God's will, which I think is one of the best written ways of describing it.
00:10:18
Speaker
Because he, so, okay.
00:10:20
Speaker
Spoilers for Daredevil, if you haven't seen it.
00:10:22
Speaker
We'll get back to Superman, don't worry.
00:10:24
Speaker
We're gonna talk about some more hopeful things.
00:10:27
Speaker
Some more, some brighter, some brighter.
00:10:32
Speaker
Yeah, hopeful isn't necessarily.
00:10:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think this is very hopeful.
00:10:36
Speaker
But yeah, spoilers for this, if you haven't seen it.
00:10:39
Speaker
And if you can stomach it, go watch it.
00:10:40
Speaker
But it's also totally fair if you can't stomach it.
00:10:42
Speaker
It's fine.
00:10:43
Speaker
You're like me.
00:10:45
Speaker
Right, like Nate, who just has to enjoy this by proxy of my love.
00:10:48
Speaker
And I do.
00:10:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's good.
00:10:52
Speaker
So he starts the season at his lowest point.
00:10:56
Speaker
And he's presumed dead.
00:10:58
Speaker
He's lost the love of his life.
00:10:59
Speaker
He's like...
00:11:00
Speaker
I think that I'm just God's idiot.
00:11:03
Speaker
Basically, I think I'm like Job and and God is just messing with me and he's put me in this like vigilante spot and will not give me a break.
00:11:14
Speaker
So screw God, basically, at the start of the season.
00:11:20
Speaker
And then you see him slowly start to reconnect with that faith throughout the season.
00:11:27
Speaker
But you also see how him losing that...
00:11:31
Speaker
puts him it is it's pretty much a direct connection between he loses his faith and he loses his community because he cuts them both off and then you see well now he's starting to move more towards a worse version of himself okay um and you have sort of this paralleling character that struggles with some of the same things as well but to a more extreme degree because he's a super villain and he's insane as you do in comic book things yeah but
00:11:56
Speaker
You have this central villain of Wilson Fisk that's been the villain for the whole show, who is in sort of a vision spectral sort of way, like in Matt's head.
00:12:09
Speaker
And he's like imagining him.
00:12:11
Speaker
And so he's sort of the devil on Matt's shoulders.
00:12:13
Speaker
And then he's also literally the devil on this shoulder for this other mirror character that's this villain.
00:12:18
Speaker
How literally?
00:12:19
Speaker
He's not on their shoulder.
00:12:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:22
Speaker
That would crush them because Kingpin is very large.
00:12:26
Speaker
So that's one of the key things about his look.
00:12:29
Speaker
Excuse me.
00:12:30
Speaker
I'm going to die now.
00:12:32
Speaker
Sounds like someone's on your shoulder.
00:12:38
Speaker
Wilson Fisk, get off.
00:12:39
Speaker
Vincent D'Onofrio, no.
00:12:41
Speaker
Um.
00:12:43
Speaker
But so it's interesting.
00:12:45
Speaker
You see how this, how, where Matt could go, but then his friends come and, and,
00:12:52
Speaker
pull him out of that.
00:12:53
Speaker
And his priest and this nun who's taking care of him pull him out of that and he slowly reconnects with God.
00:13:00
Speaker
And the big question of the season is whether or not he's going to make the decision to kill because he's never killed.
00:13:06
Speaker
He's never killed.
00:13:07
Speaker
Never.
00:13:08
Speaker
Wow.
00:13:08
Speaker
He goes quite far, but he doesn't kill.
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:11
Speaker
That's the line he draws.
00:13:12
Speaker
And...
00:13:15
Speaker
he's always debated would killing Wilson Fisk be better?
00:13:18
Speaker
And right now, Wilson Fisk in this in that season gets the entire FBI on his side through machinations.
00:13:26
Speaker
So it's like he just went from being in prison to now literally getting the FBI to protect him in a penthouse.
00:13:33
Speaker
Wow.
00:13:34
Speaker
So it's like this guy's pretty dangerous.
00:13:36
Speaker
Maybe it would be better if he died and couldn't keep hurting and killing people.
00:13:40
Speaker
But it's a fair question.
00:13:42
Speaker
It is a fair question.
00:13:44
Speaker
But Matt still decides that that moral line, the commandment of thou shall not murder, which is what he's considering is going and murdering him.
00:13:52
Speaker
Right.
00:13:53
Speaker
Is not a line he can cross.
00:13:54
Speaker
He will not let Fisk, this devilish character.
00:14:01
Speaker
He won't surrender to that.
00:14:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:05
Speaker
And fall into that.
00:14:07
Speaker
He is...
00:14:08
Speaker
who God defines him as.
00:14:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:13
Speaker
Because the line he says to Fisk is, you don't get to change who I am.
00:14:17
Speaker
And then after that, in sort of the epilogue, he's talking about, he's like reflecting and he's talking about God's will.
00:14:24
Speaker
And he's like, I used to think God's will was like a line and it was straightforward, but now I see it as a tapestry.
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:33
Speaker
But we only see it from
Hope and Redemption in Art
00:14:34
Speaker
the back.
00:14:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:35
Speaker
So we don't get to see the beautiful picture.
00:14:38
Speaker
We just see this weird, confusing pattern that we don't understand.
00:14:45
Speaker
And then at some point he flips it over.
00:14:48
Speaker
Maybe not until eternity.
00:14:49
Speaker
He flips it over and you see the complete beautiful picture.
00:14:52
Speaker
I'm like, what a great way to describe that.
00:14:55
Speaker
From a Marvel Netflix show.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:58
Speaker
But it's so good.
00:15:00
Speaker
And so that story, which is full of such awful hardship and crime and people who are lost to drugs and lost to an endless cycle of their mental health, consuming them and turning them into murderous monsters and people who've lost their families and people who are on the run and people who are getting their heads literally smashed off by car doors.
00:15:22
Speaker
Like it's so visceral.
00:15:23
Speaker
It's so deconstructionist.
00:15:27
Speaker
But the message, the through line still becomes...
00:15:32
Speaker
You need God and you need people.
00:15:34
Speaker
You need God and you need your brothers and sisters.
00:15:36
Speaker
You need your community.
00:15:38
Speaker
So I think even those enduring pieces are still powerful because of the simple message.
00:15:48
Speaker
And I think that when you pair that simple message with something that is that simple true message, resonant, beautiful message, with something powerful,
00:15:59
Speaker
so gritty.
00:16:01
Speaker
I think that that is its own special sauce.
00:16:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:06
Speaker
That doesn't negate the benefit of something like Superman, like we'll talk about in a moment, maybe not Superman specifically, but the concept of something like that.
00:16:14
Speaker
It doesn't make that lesser than, but I think it is its own special sauce that's to be appreciated.
00:16:21
Speaker
I think that the season we're in now looking at it and looking at what are sort of the
00:16:26
Speaker
the virtues that we're seeing in our art today can help us appreciate what were the virtues of the art for the last 20 years and those good arts probably still the same virtue just showing it in different different light yeah yeah yeah that's cool no there's a lot to
00:16:49
Speaker
Say that they're like different approaches and they each have something to say for them.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:02
Speaker
I was thinking about how
00:17:05
Speaker
You know the Superman comics better than I do.
00:17:09
Speaker
Probably.
00:17:10
Speaker
I mean, I'm not super well-read, but I know them.
00:17:12
Speaker
I've not read 80s, so.
00:17:14
Speaker
I've read a few and no more than I've read.
00:17:19
Speaker
I like less than half of you half as well as I should like.
00:17:21
Speaker
And I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
00:17:24
Speaker
Gives me those vibes.
00:17:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:29
Speaker
So maybe you can correct me, but it feels like...
00:17:34
Speaker
the new Superman lives in the spirit of at least what people, when they think about Superman, think about.
00:17:45
Speaker
Whereas maybe there's like, I know there's tons of comic books and so maybe there's like a lot of variation within there.
00:17:56
Speaker
But I feel like...
00:18:01
Speaker
like maybe the Man of Steel ones didn't fit within that, like this is the original thing that this was created as, whereas this recent one is more like returning back to that original thing.
00:18:15
Speaker
Yeah, so I think Man of Steel is a pretty good adaptation.
00:18:20
Speaker
And that's not just cause I like it.
00:18:22
Speaker
I, so this is John sin.
00:18:24
Speaker
I like the majority of the DC movies.
00:18:27
Speaker
Um, I would say I love them.
00:18:29
Speaker
I would also say man of steel is quite possibly in my top 10 movies.
00:18:34
Speaker
Um, I really like man of steel a lot.
00:18:38
Speaker
Um,
00:18:41
Speaker
Man of Steel, I think, is a pretty solid adaptation of that character.
00:18:45
Speaker
He's certainly a more reserved version of the character than what we see in Superman.
00:18:49
Speaker
But I think that's a very valid interpretation of Superman.
00:18:53
Speaker
But Man of Steel, I think hope is a pretty big theme in that still.
00:19:00
Speaker
And Man of Steel, I appreciate a lot of the stylistic things of Zack Snyder, but he is...
00:19:09
Speaker
who's the person who directed Man of Steel.
00:19:10
Speaker
I'm trying to keep people up with us who maybe haven't watched these.
00:19:14
Speaker
Um, he was the one who directed Man of Steel.
00:19:17
Speaker
I like a lot of his visual style.
00:19:18
Speaker
I like a lot of his, not a lot.
00:19:21
Speaker
I like some of his sensitivities with stories.
00:19:24
Speaker
Um, but he also has a tendency to make things very convoluted.
00:19:28
Speaker
Um,
00:19:29
Speaker
in a way that maybe doesn't always serve the story well.
00:19:31
Speaker
To harken back to what is probably our last episode with Brad.
00:19:34
Speaker
I assume that I will release these in sequential order when we recorded them, because that would make sense.
00:19:39
Speaker
Excuse me.
00:19:42
Speaker
I don't think it always serves the story super well.
00:19:45
Speaker
Man of Steel, I think, is probably his tightest and best one, but I think it's still a little convoluted.
00:19:50
Speaker
But I think the goal is still...
00:19:54
Speaker
you saw this world that went south and and now you want to have hope that earth will be better than that and and clark is sort of an embodiment of that hope he's he's the embodiment of the hope that his parents had that people could be better
00:20:10
Speaker
And he's the his his Kryptonian parents and he's the embodiment of his adopted parents here on Earth that well, his dad in that is complicated, but generally they hope that he will live a good life and that the world will be better for him being in it.
00:20:27
Speaker
And then the world is better for him being in it, I think.
00:20:29
Speaker
General Zod's not because he gets murdered, but he killed.
00:20:34
Speaker
Killed.
00:20:34
Speaker
Yes, that's true.
00:20:35
Speaker
That is a I think that's justified.
00:20:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:38
Speaker
I will go to bat for that.
00:20:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:40
Speaker
He's about to zap those folks.
00:20:42
Speaker
Now, could those folks have just walked forward and then to the side?
00:20:46
Speaker
Yes.
00:20:47
Speaker
But, you know, we're living in the movie.
00:20:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:49
Speaker
It's not every day you see somebody shoot lasers from their eyes, you know?
00:20:57
Speaker
But I think Batman versus Superman, which is the sequel to Man of Steel, I'm just trying to really keep people engaged with our geeky conversation as we go.
00:21:08
Speaker
as the name would suggest, Batman and Superman are going to fight.
00:21:13
Speaker
Why?
00:21:13
Speaker
Everyone wants it to happen.
00:21:16
Speaker
Everybody.
00:21:18
Speaker
You obviously wanted them to fight before they ever teamed up on screen.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:22
Speaker
So Batman v Superman, I like still, but it's probably my least favorite of...
00:21:27
Speaker
the sort of like I view it as a trilogy with Justice League Man of Steel Batman versus Superman and Justice League.
00:21:34
Speaker
And I think Batman v Superman is the weakest.
00:21:36
Speaker
But Batman is terrified of Superman because of what Superman could be, which I think is an interesting sort of compelling take.
00:21:43
Speaker
At the time, it was interesting.
00:21:45
Speaker
Now it's worn down.
00:21:47
Speaker
At the time, it was an interesting, compelling take.
00:21:49
Speaker
But there were a couple like flash forwards
00:21:53
Speaker
That were sort of ambiguous as to whether or not this was actually showing us the future of this universe.
00:21:59
Speaker
Or whether it was just Batman's fears of what Superman could be.
00:22:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:03
Speaker
But Superman was basically an evil dictator.
00:22:06
Speaker
And they're very short scenes.
00:22:08
Speaker
But A, they were shot and directed very well.
00:22:11
Speaker
And B, I think it just hit at the right time that it started this big wave of like, oh my gosh, guys.
00:22:20
Speaker
superman could be evil and so and this wasn't the first to do that um that concept had been done before but there was a video game that came out a couple years before that called injustice where the whole storyline is about superman becoming a dictator in an alternate universe because he loses the love of his life
00:22:44
Speaker
And so it's like, what if this all powerful, all good person actually was evil?
00:22:49
Speaker
And then Batman versus Superman played with that a little bit because Zack Snyder found that more interesting.
00:22:55
Speaker
And then it sort of exploded after that.
00:22:59
Speaker
You had so much Superman media was about.
00:23:06
Speaker
Could Superman be evil?
00:23:07
Speaker
Could that be a problem?
00:23:09
Speaker
And then it could be a problem.
00:23:10
Speaker
It would be a problem if Superman was evil.
00:23:12
Speaker
And then you had.
00:23:14
Speaker
The Boys is a very famous Amazon show, which you should not watch.
00:23:18
Speaker
There is nothing redemptive about it.
00:23:20
Speaker
I haven't seen it, but I know a fair amount about it.
00:23:22
Speaker
And there's nothing redemptive about it.
00:23:25
Speaker
But they have sort of this lab-grown Superman character who is just...
00:23:32
Speaker
Views himself as a god, but is also like cripplingly anxious and will just murder at the drop of a hat.
00:23:39
Speaker
But that somehow the world like loves because he has great PR.
00:23:44
Speaker
He's just this horrible, terrifying character.
00:23:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:48
Speaker
And then you have Invincible, which I think takes it with a bit more nuance and was a comic earlier.
00:23:54
Speaker
But that's an animated show, which I think does have a little bit more redemptive stuff in it.
00:23:57
Speaker
But I still don't think I would recommend it generally to most people.
00:24:03
Speaker
At least certainly not our audience.
00:24:05
Speaker
But in this one... Not you guys.
00:24:06
Speaker
Not you guys.
00:24:06
Speaker
Not you.
00:24:07
Speaker
I just, I think I know our audience fairly well and I don't think it's one our audience would benefit from.
00:24:12
Speaker
Sure.
00:24:13
Speaker
But in that one you've got the main character's name is Mark and his dad is basically Superman, came from another world.
00:24:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:20
Speaker
He's voiced by J.K.
00:24:21
Speaker
Simmons, who's always great, who side note, I realized that J.K.
00:24:25
Speaker
Simmons, anytime I see him on screen, just makes me feel comfortable.
00:24:29
Speaker
I was watching this Apple TV show while I was up late nursing.
00:24:36
Speaker
They're not nursing.
00:24:36
Speaker
I don't nurse.
00:24:37
Speaker
He's the spider.
00:24:38
Speaker
Get me pictures of Spider-Man.
00:24:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:39
Speaker
Jonah Jameson and the Spider-Man movies.
00:24:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:42
Speaker
I want pictures of Spider-Man.
00:24:44
Speaker
That's him.
00:24:46
Speaker
But he played this whole show about defending a kid who maybe killed somebody.
00:24:52
Speaker
And it's all ambiguous and fairly dark.
00:24:54
Speaker
It's a thriller.
00:24:56
Speaker
But you build up the main character is the dad of this kid.
00:25:01
Speaker
And you build up that our main character's dad at some point had killed somebody and done something really atrocious.
00:25:07
Speaker
And it's like...
00:25:09
Speaker
this is not a good guy, I'm very scared.
00:25:11
Speaker
And then there's an episode where it's like, oh, he's gonna go see his dad.
00:25:14
Speaker
And then it reveals this J.K.
00:25:15
Speaker
Simmons and immediately I was just like, oh.
00:25:23
Speaker
Everything just feels safer.
00:25:25
Speaker
So that was funny.
00:25:27
Speaker
But yeah, so there's this dad character and it's revealed.
00:25:30
Speaker
This is, well, this is just a plot twist really for the first step.
00:25:33
Speaker
What are we talking about now?
00:25:34
Speaker
For Invincible.
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:36
Speaker
Too many dad characters.
00:25:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:37
Speaker
I'm bouncing everywhere.
00:25:40
Speaker
It's revealed that he's really there to conquer the earth for his people.
00:25:43
Speaker
They never died out.
00:25:44
Speaker
He's there to conquer the earth.
00:25:47
Speaker
And his son tries to stop him and actually does reach him at the very end, but it's after a very brutal fight.
00:25:54
Speaker
And so you had this sort of renaissance of just we cannot trust people.
00:26:04
Speaker
Somebody like this could not exist.
00:26:06
Speaker
It just couldn't.
00:26:07
Speaker
And we can't believe it.
00:26:09
Speaker
In Batman versus Superman, Lex Luthor has the line.
00:26:14
Speaker
which I think is really his motivation because he wants to tear Superman down.
00:26:17
Speaker
And he says to Superman, I figured out way back that if God is all powerful, he can't be all good.
00:26:22
Speaker
And if he's all good, he can't be all powerful, which is a classic argument against the existence of a good loving God.
00:26:27
Speaker
So do you think that basic premise is like behind a lot of the deconstruction media?
00:26:36
Speaker
I think so, but it's interesting because I don't think that Zack Snyder,
00:26:43
Speaker
I don't think that's necessarily what Zack Snyder is trying to say.
00:26:45
Speaker
That's not the conclusion.
00:26:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:47
Speaker
Because Zack Snyder, I think, was building towards a Superman that was supposed to be sort of the perfect embodiment of our Superman.
00:26:55
Speaker
Right.
00:26:55
Speaker
But he wanted him to go through a crucible first.
00:26:58
Speaker
Uh-huh.
00:26:58
Speaker
And so...
00:27:01
Speaker
I don't think that that is what Zack Snyder believes, but I think the culture sort of latched onto that.
00:27:07
Speaker
Um, that, that take on it of, yeah, there could be no all good superhero like this.
00:27:14
Speaker
There could not be a all good, powerful being like this.
00:27:19
Speaker
Um, and I would even say they just, our culture just at that point was just like, there cannot be a man or a woman, just anyone who is all good.
00:27:32
Speaker
Which is technically true.
00:27:34
Speaker
It is technically true.
00:27:35
Speaker
Except for one.
00:27:36
Speaker
Right.
00:27:37
Speaker
But...
00:27:39
Speaker
It swung so wildly in that direction, as we've just explained with Superman, where it was like, well, now we're just, we have all these morally complex characters that a lot of the time just feel you leaving, leave you feeling icky.
00:27:51
Speaker
And sometimes you get a daredevil where you leave feeling like, yes, I am now encouraged about the state of like humanity and God's ability to like hold on to us.
00:28:01
Speaker
And that like good can triumph over such horrible evil and over my awfulness.
00:28:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:07
Speaker
But then you also end up just with,
00:28:10
Speaker
Something like the boys where it's like, well, everybody really kind of sucks.
00:28:13
Speaker
Even the good guys suck.
00:28:15
Speaker
So what's the point?
00:28:16
Speaker
It's so nihilistic.
00:28:17
Speaker
Right.
00:28:17
Speaker
You know?
00:28:18
Speaker
Right.
00:28:19
Speaker
Whereas I feel like maybe what we're returning to or at least like what Superman wise is it's not like.
00:28:28
Speaker
what if this thing was real and we had to like really struggle with what it would mean if it was in this context, but it was actually, what if it is just what it is?
00:28:41
Speaker
And so I wonder if that's a little of what we're returning to of, of what if the thing is just what the nice thing that it is?
00:28:50
Speaker
It makes me think of, and I'm probably thinking of hope cause we're just talking about Superman and this kind of his thing.
00:28:57
Speaker
But it feels like it's the sense of like, before it felt like we need to test hope and see if it can make it through.
00:29:07
Speaker
We need to see if hope will endure.
00:29:09
Speaker
So let's put it through this fire.
00:29:11
Speaker
And some people conclude, no, it can't endure.
00:29:14
Speaker
You're always going to have just evil people fighting evil people, and it's going to collapse.
00:29:17
Speaker
And some people concluded, no, it can endure, a la Daredevil.
00:29:23
Speaker
it does come through, it does push through.
00:29:25
Speaker
Whereas now it feels like
00:29:29
Speaker
In our art, there's a more optimistic view of, no, there is always hope.
00:29:35
Speaker
Hope can never really be crushed.
00:29:38
Speaker
And we can just look at hope and just embrace hope and joy.
00:29:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker
And I think that's a nice thing for believers.
00:29:50
Speaker
But then it seems like even people who aren't believers are just ready for hope.
00:29:56
Speaker
Okay, let's just have something nice.
00:29:59
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:00
Speaker
Well... Which answers like a longing in the heart, you know?
00:30:10
Speaker
hopefully they don't stop there because they need Christ to truly fulfill that bit.
00:30:16
Speaker
Because I think in culture, there's also been a lot of return to traditional Christianity, Anglicanism, Catholicism, where people just want to go back to the tangible, traditional, weighty thing that like,
00:30:39
Speaker
that the past generations thought they were maybe too, too enlightened and kind of sloughed it off type of thing.
Post-COVID Shift to Spirituality and Traditional Values
00:30:49
Speaker
Um, yeah.
00:30:51
Speaker
And, and they can be, and people can do that and perfectly cause you can swing too far back again and like miss the essence for the symbolic.
00:31:02
Speaker
Right.
00:31:03
Speaker
Missing the forest for the trees.
00:31:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:06
Speaker
But it's an interesting, it's an interesting swing.
00:31:09
Speaker
And so I guess neither end, you don't find full truth in either end of those, but it's nice that people,
00:31:19
Speaker
are looking for hope.
00:31:19
Speaker
Because you could swing so far that you end up with a bad Hallmark movie.
00:31:23
Speaker
Right.
00:31:23
Speaker
So on the one hand, you could have the boys, and on the other hand, you've got Hallmark.
00:31:27
Speaker
Totally.
00:31:28
Speaker
Right.
00:31:29
Speaker
Which then just sort of laps some substance to it.
00:31:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:34
Speaker
No, I think that's totally a risk and a total benefit of some of the way you broke down Superman and there's other movies like that that you can get a lot of good truth out of.
00:31:46
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:31:47
Speaker
How do you think Christians should respond to this moment as believers?
00:31:53
Speaker
Like what do you feel like God's calling?
00:31:57
Speaker
How do you feel like God is calling us to operate in this moment?
00:31:59
Speaker
And how do you think that affects how we create?
00:32:03
Speaker
Do we have to, like I'm writing a fairly harrowing fantasy series.
00:32:08
Speaker
Should I look at making that more simplistic and hopeful?
00:32:16
Speaker
Not that mine doesn't have some simplicity to it, but like, should we be proactively trying to chase that, do you think?
00:32:22
Speaker
Or just, what are the, I don't know, what do we take away from this?
00:32:27
Speaker
No, that's a great question.
00:32:30
Speaker
Think about what it means.
00:32:32
Speaker
Does it mean that I have to stall?
00:32:33
Speaker
You have to restart over, maybe.
00:32:35
Speaker
Start over?
00:32:35
Speaker
Start a whole podcast over?
00:32:37
Speaker
No, no, no, no, your book.
00:32:38
Speaker
Just your book, don't worry.
00:32:40
Speaker
The podcast is fine.
00:32:41
Speaker
Oh, I understand.
00:32:41
Speaker
The podcast is simple enough, John.
00:32:44
Speaker
Trust me.
00:32:46
Speaker
It's not very deep.
00:32:52
Speaker
I wonder if there's an opening for people to be more vocal with their faith and that there's, and that people are a little bit more open to that.
00:33:04
Speaker
Um, well, I do think you're seeing that more like in culture.
00:33:08
Speaker
I think a people are definitely more open to the spiritual, to the religious even, um,
00:33:15
Speaker
It's like becoming like not crazy.
00:33:18
Speaker
Right.
00:33:18
Speaker
Kind of thing.
00:33:19
Speaker
Like Joe Rogan is having these various Christians on and he's like taking them seriously.
00:33:24
Speaker
And I think part of it is, well, I think there's a couple of things.
00:33:28
Speaker
One, you mentioned like earlier generations may have felt they're too enlightened to like,
00:33:35
Speaker
Embrace like more traditional expressions of a faith.
00:33:38
Speaker
I do think that we're we're starting to swing back the opposite way from the enlightenment and from a sort of over intellectual world that we've been in.
00:33:47
Speaker
So I think part of it is a swing away to be like.
00:33:50
Speaker
oh, you know, we do need mystery and spirituality and emotion.
00:33:54
Speaker
I think that's been happening for a little while.
00:33:56
Speaker
Yeah, and that can bring people to Eastern mysticism and sub-tube, which is the danger on that.
00:34:06
Speaker
Yes, totally.
00:34:08
Speaker
I also think this is something Shay said before because she listens to the True Crime and Paranormal podcast.
00:34:17
Speaker
It's the only podcast she listens to.
00:34:20
Speaker
Not even mine.
00:34:21
Speaker
Well, she listens to ours sometimes.
00:34:24
Speaker
Only those true crime and paranormal episodes we have.
00:34:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:34:29
Speaker
But there's so many stories.
00:34:33
Speaker
that take place around the Great Depression or around World War II.
00:34:36
Speaker
And it's like when there's been this really big sort of cultural, somewhat traumatic thing, people tend to turn back towards finding some meaning in the spiritual on multiple levels, which means you also see a rise in spiritualism.
00:34:50
Speaker
We have recently, regardless of like your view of it, we had COVID.
00:34:55
Speaker
Like it was 2020.
00:34:56
Speaker
Everybody was shut in.
00:34:58
Speaker
Everybody.
00:34:59
Speaker
It was a complete change.
00:35:01
Speaker
I was just talking to
00:35:03
Speaker
A teacher who came into Master Arts the other day and was chatting about some different things.
00:35:08
Speaker
And she was like, man, it's so hard to get kids to engage right now.
00:35:13
Speaker
This current age of students, there's something about the formative years that they had being during COVID.
00:35:19
Speaker
Wow.
00:35:20
Speaker
That has just...
00:35:23
Speaker
radically impacted that generation.
00:35:25
Speaker
And so we did all go through this big sort of, and for maybe the first time ever, like worldwide traumatic sort of event, like it's sticking with us and switching our sort of orientation of things.
00:35:39
Speaker
I kept on during COVID, be like being, thinking like, it's so interesting that this thing that we're going through here, people in Arizona are going through it too.
00:35:51
Speaker
And it's just like,
00:35:53
Speaker
Wait, you have COVID too?
00:35:54
Speaker
Right.
00:35:56
Speaker
Russia has it?
00:35:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:58
Speaker
Everywhere had it.
00:35:58
Speaker
It was insane.
00:35:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:59
Speaker
But that's our thing.
00:36:03
Speaker
And now we're all like,
00:36:05
Speaker
And it and it certainly in the US exacerbated a lot of our issues, I think.
00:36:11
Speaker
I think things got really heightened.
00:36:13
Speaker
Right.
00:36:13
Speaker
During and after COVID.
00:36:16
Speaker
And so now we're like, what do we do, man?
00:36:19
Speaker
Where do we go?
00:36:20
Speaker
And so I think a lot of people are turning towards the spiritual.
00:36:23
Speaker
And I think a lot of people are looking back at Christianity.
00:36:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:26
Speaker
And saying, OK.
00:36:28
Speaker
What is there?
00:36:29
Speaker
And I think a lot of people who maybe had some faith but had sort of let it slip are saying, no, God is what I believe in, you know?
00:36:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:38
Speaker
And maybe they're not wholly back to a perfect theology yet.
00:36:44
Speaker
Lord willing, he'll guide them to the place of truth where he wants them to be.
00:36:48
Speaker
But...
00:36:50
Speaker
There is, I think, a sort of embracing of there is more and I think it's a person and I think it's a God and I think it's the Christian God.
00:36:58
Speaker
And like the current science is like going right along with that too and philosophy as well.
00:37:05
Speaker
Whereas like I think a lot of atheists are finding it untenable to like intellectually be an atheist.
00:37:12
Speaker
Like maybe I can be an agnostic type of thing.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yeah, new atheism is dying.
00:37:19
Speaker
There are still those out there who hold to it and, you know,
00:37:26
Speaker
Cool.
00:37:28
Speaker
I was like, more power to you.
00:37:30
Speaker
I don't really mean that, though.
00:37:32
Speaker
I mean, a little bit of the sentiment, but not most of the sentiment.
00:37:36
Speaker
Yeah, atheism is dying.
00:37:38
Speaker
Most people are agnostic.
00:37:39
Speaker
And a lot of the people who are agnostic or atheists that you talk to, when it comes down to it, are like, I would like there to be a God.
00:37:47
Speaker
I want that.
00:37:48
Speaker
I just, for one reason or another, I can't get there.
00:37:53
Speaker
So there's certainly a desire for it even in those who don't believe it.
00:37:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:59
Speaker
And a lot of... Not across the board, obviously, because I'm making a broad statement.
00:38:03
Speaker
So that's a generalization and there are nuances.
00:38:07
Speaker
I just always want people to remember that things are nuanced.
00:38:10
Speaker
We didn't know.
Embracing Authenticity in Art
00:38:11
Speaker
Just in case.
00:38:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:16
Speaker
But probably a lot of the reason why people have a hard time accepting it is because...
00:38:24
Speaker
experiences that they've had with, with the church or with, with Christians.
00:38:32
Speaker
I mean, of course, like nobody can come to the father unless they're, they're called drawn as well.
00:38:39
Speaker
But yeah,
00:38:40
Speaker
but people's imaginations and how they look at God are shaped by how we interact with them, how the church interacts with them and culture and art too.
00:38:53
Speaker
And so we, as always, but now we need to be shaping people's imaginations through our art and just as people and representatives of Christ, like, oh, that's a Christian.
00:39:07
Speaker
they treat me like this, they make me feel like this, they care about me like this, maybe that's more what Christ is.
00:39:15
Speaker
And yeah, how can we do that with our art then too?
00:39:19
Speaker
I would say, and I almost want to say this to our audience, because I feel like if I were hearing this, I would think, now I've got to get really forward, I punched my mic, I have to get really forward thinking and I have to figure out how can I build simplicity and truth and joy into my art.
00:39:37
Speaker
So I'm going to say this directly to the audience.
00:39:40
Speaker
I feel like I don't do that a whole lot.
00:39:43
Speaker
God gave you the art to make that you need to make.
00:39:46
Speaker
God gave you the art to make that you need to make.
00:39:48
Speaker
Exactly.
00:39:50
Speaker
Our art is certainly, ideally as Christians, shaped by the truth of God and his spirit in us.
00:39:56
Speaker
It is also shaped by our cultural moment.
00:39:59
Speaker
So you don't always need to worry about, is my art relevant to the cultural moment?
00:40:04
Speaker
Right.
00:40:04
Speaker
Because it is because you are... You're part of the culture.
00:40:06
Speaker
You're part of the culture.
00:40:07
Speaker
You're the culture.
00:40:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:08
Speaker
I mean...
00:40:09
Speaker
Obviously, our goal as Christians is to be a little bit removed from it, but it's kind of inescapable.
00:40:14
Speaker
We're in the country, yeah.
00:40:16
Speaker
Right.
00:40:18
Speaker
I am a nerd who can spout off a bunch of Superman facts, as you just heard.
00:40:22
Speaker
I am shaped by that to a degree.
00:40:26
Speaker
Well, and I think that this is part of helping shape people's imagination is really is being honest and not being a fake like plastic.
00:40:38
Speaker
Christian who just does the says the perfect Christianese things, but just like is sincere about your faith and lives it as God made you like you're just like you out you audience out there.
00:40:53
Speaker
You're just like normal people and who God made to be that way ever improving and growing.
00:41:01
Speaker
Um,
00:41:02
Speaker
But I think that not being that trying to be plastic, perfect is a thing that can really turn people off and are not having the excellence in art.
00:41:16
Speaker
And because I think at the same time, there does seem to be a resurgence of
00:41:21
Speaker
of excellence in Christian art too.
00:41:23
Speaker
So that's really cool that these things are happening at the same time.
00:41:26
Speaker
So it's not like we have to get simplistic with what we're doing, but we can do it with excellence while being unashamed of what we believe.
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:40
Speaker
And a word you hit on there that I love that I think is sort of the
00:41:45
Speaker
north star right now for art artists like in the culture and i think is one of the best virtues coming out of this in our time is sincerity and earnestness true because we we grew up in the age of the marvel movie where
00:42:05
Speaker
some weird comic book thing would happen and then a character would look at it and be like, did that just happen?
00:42:11
Speaker
Really?
00:42:12
Speaker
That's the classic, you know, and just be real tongue in cheek about it or, or,
00:42:18
Speaker
You know, or be like, no, I'm not wearing purple pants as the Hulk, you know.
00:42:24
Speaker
Like, but just embracing this sincerity and earnestness in all levels of our life.
00:42:32
Speaker
And so we don't need to worry that our art isn't enough or that we aren't enough.
00:42:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:38
Speaker
Ooh, I might be preaching to myself right now.
00:42:40
Speaker
Keep going.
00:42:40
Speaker
Keep going.
00:42:42
Speaker
keep going we don't need to worry that our art is enough or that we are enough because god put us where he put us he gave us what he gave us for a reason and so just be sincere in the perspective that god gave you in the heart that god gave you root yourself in him and just be earnest be sincere
00:43:08
Speaker
go through, say what's on your mind.
00:43:10
Speaker
Embrace your noseness.
00:43:12
Speaker
As in, oh, why am I not an eye or an ear in the body of Christ?
00:43:18
Speaker
Why do I have to be a nose and stuff?
00:43:21
Speaker
It may seem confusing to you, but God really needs you to be that nose and he made you to be that way.
00:43:26
Speaker
Without a nose, we couldn't smell garlic.
00:43:28
Speaker
We couldn't smell this wonderful candle that is what's like making sound in the background, if you've heard it.
00:43:35
Speaker
It's our ASMR element.
00:43:37
Speaker
Yes, that's why it's been so good.
00:43:41
Speaker
It stirs our brain base.
00:43:44
Speaker
Yes, embracing that niche that God has put you in.
00:43:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:48
Speaker
And you don't, that doesn't mean you have to like manhandle it and be like, I'm going to embrace my niche.
00:43:53
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:43:53
Speaker
Like, oh, this is my thing.
00:43:55
Speaker
And so I'm going to be this really press into this quirky list about myself.
00:43:59
Speaker
Just like open hands.
00:44:02
Speaker
Don't think too much about yourself, but also don't be ashamed of who God made you to be.
00:44:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:07
Speaker
I think.
00:44:09
Speaker
Recently, I had a day where it was just like, it felt like it was just chock full of like really difficult, like conversations and like,
00:44:18
Speaker
sort of like some stressful things and i was just like i'm just kind of trying to just go here and just i kind of just felt like i was just holding on and like god was just like putting me in these spots and was just like okay john i've just put you here be you in this spot i'm
Personal Reflections and Episode Wrap-up
00:44:31
Speaker
like ah okay but by the end of that day it was like it was very stressful and uh you know definitely weighed on me i've entered to you about it over the weekend for sure so like there are some things that weighed on me but also by the end of that day i was like no i feel like it just it felt
00:44:51
Speaker
I knew God was present with me throughout that day.
00:44:54
Speaker
I had seen him throughout that day.
00:44:56
Speaker
And I didn't have to work really hard.
00:44:58
Speaker
I mean, it was a hard day.
00:45:01
Speaker
There was hard work.
00:45:02
Speaker
But it was not like I had to create this regimen.
00:45:07
Speaker
Manipulate who you are.
00:45:08
Speaker
Yeah, manipulate it.
00:45:10
Speaker
I just had to live out who God made me to be.
00:45:13
Speaker
And like hearing you tell me about that day, I was just...
00:45:18
Speaker
like struck with like the beauty of who you are and who like, you know, who God made you to be.
00:45:24
Speaker
And so it's, it's a great thing to just live out who you are.
00:45:28
Speaker
And it was, it was just you being very you.
00:45:30
Speaker
And it's like that John, he's just being very, that's a lovely thing though.
00:45:34
Speaker
Oh, thanks.
00:45:35
Speaker
That's nice.
00:45:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:38
Speaker
Any other thoughts on this?
00:45:41
Speaker
Or have we covered everything?
00:45:43
Speaker
Every single nuance we could possibly have covered, we've done it.
00:45:46
Speaker
Yay, we've covered all the nuances.
00:45:48
Speaker
That's my dream is to cover all the nuances.
00:45:51
Speaker
Have all the bases covered.
00:45:52
Speaker
Yes.
00:45:55
Speaker
Cool.
00:45:56
Speaker
Thanks for listening, everyone.
00:45:59
Speaker
Just rest in who God made you, the things he's given you to do with the people that he's put in your life because they need you through the power of the spirit, not through your own power to be who God made you to be.
00:46:13
Speaker
Amen.
00:46:14
Speaker
Thank you guys for listening to the podcast on the regular.
00:46:17
Speaker
Sorry, we've been a little irregular in our posts recently.
00:46:20
Speaker
There's a lot going on in the organization.
00:46:22
Speaker
There's a lot going on for Nate and I, but we're trying to get back on it.
00:46:26
Speaker
We're not dead.
00:46:28
Speaker
I don't think we've had a long enough break for you to think we're dead, but we're not.
00:46:33
Speaker
But if you enjoy listening, share us with your friends.
00:46:36
Speaker
Share us with your enemies.
00:46:38
Speaker
Also, maybe give your enemy a cake and love your enemy unless they don't like cake or allergic to cake.
00:46:43
Speaker
Then give them flowers unless they don't like flowers and are allergic to flowers.
00:46:46
Speaker
Cover all the nuances.
00:46:47
Speaker
Give them a hug.
00:46:48
Speaker
And if they don't like hugs and are allergic to you, you could do a high five.
00:46:54
Speaker
You could give them a feather duster because then they can get rid of all the dust in their home.
00:46:59
Speaker
You could offer to pay for an Uber to take them to wherever they want to go for their dream vacation.
00:47:07
Speaker
You could...
00:47:08
Speaker
It's like, how long is this gonna go on?
00:47:12
Speaker
Share us with whomever.
00:47:15
Speaker
And come see us at the Cultivate conference.
00:47:18
Speaker
Yes, we're gonna be, oh my gosh, I didn't even think about this.
00:47:22
Speaker
It's not really a live podcast episode.
00:47:24
Speaker
It's kind of a live podcast episode.
00:47:26
Speaker
And this wasn't intentional, it just sort of happened.
00:47:28
Speaker
It's gonna happen.
00:47:29
Speaker
Yeah, we're at the lunch hour.
00:47:31
Speaker
There's gonna be this panel conversation with some different actors in the area talking about how do you approach a role healthily as an actor?
00:47:40
Speaker
So we're going to talk about some of their experiences as actors, how they approached roles and how that was a benefit to them in their spiritual lives or harmed them in their spiritual lives.
00:47:51
Speaker
Things to look out for, things to proactively do.
00:47:53
Speaker
But Nate and I are going to be hosting that, doing a little bit of asking some questions, doing some Q&A, maybe just a smidgen of shenanigans.
00:48:01
Speaker
You never know.
00:48:02
Speaker
Keep it out.
00:48:04
Speaker
But this is at Artist of the Way's first conference?
00:48:07
Speaker
Yes.
00:48:08
Speaker
Called Cultivate 25?
00:48:10
Speaker
Cultivate 25.
00:48:10
Speaker
When's it happening?
00:48:11
Speaker
It's happening October 18th.
00:48:13
Speaker
The Early Bird tickets are... I don't know if they're still available.
00:48:19
Speaker
They might not be available.
00:48:19
Speaker
They might not be available.
00:48:20
Speaker
So you should check right now because if they are still available... The prices are reasonable though.
00:48:24
Speaker
The prices are reasonable.
00:48:25
Speaker
And for a full day... Standard tickets are 24.
00:48:29
Speaker
So very reasonable price.
00:48:31
Speaker
There will be a link below me.
00:48:35
Speaker
This is gonna be a full day of great sessions about being an artist, about being, specifically there's several focuses, a focus on being a performer, sessions about being a director, and sessions about faith.
00:48:55
Speaker
And you can bounce around to which ones are interesting to you.
00:48:57
Speaker
There's so many teachers teaching these sessions of really interesting,
00:49:04
Speaker
topics.
00:49:05
Speaker
Yeah, I'm excited.
00:49:06
Speaker
The price really, even if you don't get the early bird special, the price is just $24 for a full day of these great classes and sessions.
00:49:17
Speaker
So it's a great deal.
00:49:18
Speaker
So yeah, just come out.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:21
Speaker
You can also like and comment.
00:49:22
Speaker
We would love to hear your thoughts on the state of art today.
00:49:24
Speaker
Sincerity, different things like that.
00:49:26
Speaker
Comment down below and I'll try and do a better job of replying that I
00:49:29
Speaker
have of late because I've had a son, but I'm getting more on top of these things.
00:49:33
Speaker
Leave a review.
00:49:34
Speaker
We love to hear your feedback on the podcast.
00:49:36
Speaker
Come see us at Cultivate and give your neighbor a cake or flowers or a feather duster or a hug or an Uber to their favorite vacation spot.
00:49:46
Speaker
Thank you guys for listening.
00:49:48
Speaker
Bye.
00:49:48
Speaker
God bless.