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CLASSIC EPISODE: Do vegan children have veganism forced upon them?
95 Plays10 days ago
This summer we're revisiting some of our favourite ever episodes of the podcast each Monday whilst we take a few weeks off recording. On Thursdays you can hear new content in our Animal Rights History series. Normal service will be resumed on the 1st September!
CLASSIC EPISODE: Ep#47....Do vegan children have veganism forced upon them?
In this episode we spend 45 minutes listening to the vegan journey of 11-year old Logan, who's has been making compassionate choices since the age of 2 years old!
We cover the subject of whether he is 'forced' to be vegan, what he finds hard, what he enjoys about being vegan, how he feels about animals, direct actions he's taken to improve outcomes for animals, and a whole lot more, including the most important question: Does being vegan give you superpowers?!
As ever, we're keen to hear your thoughts once you've listened to the episode. Enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com is the place to reach us. And as Logan says at the end of the episode, if you would like to ask him a question directly, we can make it happen; Ant is lucky enough to spend time with Logan each week, so your questions can be delivered in person!
Many thanks to Logan's mum, Kam, for facilitating the recording for this episode.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
Enough of the Falafel is also on Facebok, Tiktok & Instagram @enoughofthefalafel.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Logan, Kam & Ant
(SFX in today's show provided by Zapsplat.com)
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Updates
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to another Enough of the Falafel podcast. We've recorded over 200 of these shows now, all relating to veganism and animal rights.
00:00:14
Speaker
And because of all that hard work, each summer we give ourselves just a few weeks off recording. But don't fret, we're not leaving you in the lurch. You are still going to have twice weekly bits of brilliant content and shows to listen to.
00:00:29
Speaker
They're just going to be a bit different. Coming out on the next few Thursdays are going to be a special history series where Mark and myself look back at some of the lesser reported aspects of animal rights history. And each Monday, we're going to share with you one of our favourite episodes from the Enough of the Falafel Archive, an episode that we've gone back and listened to again and we thought you might enjoy having a second listen to as well. Or maybe you'll be coming across it for the first time.
00:01:02
Speaker
We really hope you enjoy these special shows that we've put together for you, that you're having a great time, whatever you're up to this month, while we're having a little bit of time off recording week to week.
00:01:14
Speaker
And normal service will be resumed on the 1st of September. So sit back and enjoy this special episode from Enough of the Falafel.
Growing Up Vegan: Misconceptions and Learning
00:01:25
Speaker
Hello everybody, can you imagine what it's like as a child being forced to be vegan? In this episode we meet one of the victims.
00:01:37
Speaker
You are listening to Vegan Talk with me Anthony. And me Logan.
00:01:55
Speaker
Welcome everybody and welcome Logan. Logan, you've already been on an episode of Enough of the Falafel. You were on Vegan Week earlier this week, weren't you? And you've come back for more. Yeah. Fantastic. How are you doing? You okay?
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah. Excellent. Logan's got lots of silly noises out of his system before we started recording. It was quite important, wasn't it? yeah yeah anyway we are going to be talking to logan or rather we're going be listening to logan about his experience of being a vegan as a child because i think most of us listening and most vegans in the world at the moment weren't vegan whilst they were children um So this is a really interesting insight. Before we start, important to note, of course, this is your experience, Logan. It's not going to be the experience of every vegan child, is it No. different You know other children who are vegan. It's is' not the same for everyone, is it? No.
00:02:45
Speaker
No, but this is this is your experience. So I thought we'd start off by dealing with what we might call the elephant in the room, the thing that lots of people will be thinking and we need we need to mention.
00:02:57
Speaker
is a lot of people particularly those who aren't vegan yet might think you shouldn't force your child to be vegan like have have you been forced to be vegan no so why why are you vegan then well from a very young age i've obviously been like i've been taught that and informed that like all of the like big hamburgers you get in mcdonald's are pigs and cows beef burgers are cows and that they're all the animals and like that the some things are made of chicken and that they have the cow milk and eggs in that's and i've already i knew all that which obviously made me not want to eat the things and
00:03:44
Speaker
when i was in forest schools at a young age and i was offered the marshmallows i was told you can eat them if you want to but they have got like pig fats in them so i'd often decide not to because i didn't want to eat the pig fat and ah i'm happy to be informed as people who aren't vegan get raised to eat all the non-vegan things and then get told that thenre they're animals.
00:04:12
Speaker
And in a way, they're forcing them to be not vegan, in a manner of speaking. Yeah, yeah. it did is That's my opinion. Yeah, it depends how you look at these things, doesn't it? But that's certainly certainly a very valid way of of looking at it.
Childhood Influences on Veganism
00:04:28
Speaker
So had you when when you're making a decision, like when you're younger and you're thinking to yourself, I don't want to eat this or I don't want to use this product because it's not always about eating, is it?
00:04:41
Speaker
No. I don't only use this because an animal has been hurt from it. Were those animals that you'd met before? Like, had you met cows before or pigs? Or were they animals that you just knew about?
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah, when I was younger, I'd been to places, so I would have seen and met some of those animals at places. Like, we went to Little al Farm Park and they had some of those animals there. And some of the animals I didn't know, but I knew about them.
00:05:11
Speaker
yeah. yeah That's interesting, isn't it? So even though you've not met, let's say, for example, a pig, I don't know whether you had or hadn't met a pig, but let's say you hadn't, it sounds like some of the animals you hadn't even met yet...
00:05:24
Speaker
you're still able to realise, actually, I don't want to hurt that animal. Yeah. Yeah. do Do you think if more children sort of had that experience at a really young age, like before they started eating animal products, if they kind of spent time with them beforehand, do you think more people would would choose to be vegan?
00:05:44
Speaker
I would say they would, probably. yeah ah It might not be, like, 100% more people, but I feel like ah some more would. I don't know how many exactly, but... Yeah.
00:05:56
Speaker
So, roughly, how old were you, then, when you were vegan or cloak close to being vegan? Roughly. Well, oh I was under two at Philz and I went that way.
00:06:09
Speaker
sort So obviously when I was little I occasionally ah tried egg and i did I just did not like it. It's a funny food egg isn't it? i remember not I mean I became vegan when I was 23 or something like that but i never really liked egg. It's a bit of a funny food really isn't it?
00:06:25
Speaker
Well, mean, if you try it in the... rock Like, if someone's cooked it in the way you're not going to like, then you might not want to try it again because you've tasted it like that. That's another secret way of making people vegan, cooking animal products really badly. Yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker
yeah So they don't like them, but that's more
Animal Rights Beliefs and Critiques
00:06:41
Speaker
of a trick. So to quite quite early then in in your life, like, that's basically as long as you can remember, really, isn't it?
00:06:49
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. And can you, I mean, in a sense, it's difficult because you've not, in your living memory, you've not really experienced anything that different, have you? But can you and you remember...
00:07:03
Speaker
what it was like or can you remember like choosing not to eat foods or? I can remember one which wasn't as long ago but it was still maybe I don't know how many was years ago a few years ago and um most of my life I've been eating honey like I like the honey cornflakes and I wasn't a problem against honey but then After while, I sort of got to the point where, i I mean, I knew bees made it, but then I sort of got to that point where I was like well, it is theirs. I don't want to be eating it.
00:07:32
Speaker
And I stopped. I just stopped eating honey. Yeah. and it hasn't affected me at all it's just meant that i'm like more of it i don't eat it so i am vegan yeah because at that point i i was actually classed in vegetarian but i would have you know other than that that's the only thing i had yeah why why do you care about animals might sound like an odd question Yeah, oh I'm not sure really exactly why. I just love animals so much and I love all animals.
00:08:11
Speaker
I mean, some people might think that some animals are weird or creepy, but I like all animals and I feel that they all have the same rights, even if some of them are just tiny like bugs and some of them are massive like whales. I feel that they all have those rights to live.
00:08:26
Speaker
was going to say, what are those rights? You mentioned rights. Is that is that the only one, like right to live, are there other rights they have? With animals in factory farming, I don't feel like that's right. I i don't, personally. I'm not saying that but anyone else can't feel differently, but...
00:08:41
Speaker
I just think, I don't think that was where they've had their rights taken away from them to live freely. They've been trapped in those cages. though Some of them will have never seen the outside world. And then there's...
00:08:57
Speaker
Places where it's like there's things of them just being killed and they're defenceless. And I hate that. And just um like when the male chicks have been killed because they don't want them.
00:09:11
Speaker
I hate that as well. And I just think they have they haven't they haven't got their rights that's been taken away from them. They can't do anything about it. They've just lost all their rights. Mm-hmm.
00:09:22
Speaker
to have any choice against anything and then there's also the things that they use like tests on animals we mentioned that in our earlier episode yeah ah so yeah I just don't like all of that stuff that they do to animals and even some animals in zoos and like the donkeys they just abandon tied up and don't clip them and the bears have just been put in a small cage and they're going back to forth and they're just so unhappy and i just i don't like that and when they just tie up a dog and leave it it's a lot of things yeah you saying all of that it's quite a lot of sadness to think about isn't it yeah like do do you find yourself feeling sad about things that happen to animals um i feel there's a lot of injustice i feel a little bit of sadness about it and everything is it's like
00:10:14
Speaker
I will try and make some higher notes later in this. It won't just be all the sad. But, um yeah, I just think, yeah, it doesn't always make me sad because i've I know about these things and that's sort of want some of the things that have made me vegan as well.
00:10:31
Speaker
And, yeah, I just... I think it's sad, but hope there's a lot of people are trying to change that. And it's just trying to focus on that is the main thing of that people are trying to solve it.
00:10:47
Speaker
yeah I was to say, is that your your sort of main way of responding to feeling that way? Because it's good to feel sad about things, isn't it? Like it's an okay feeling to have.
00:10:58
Speaker
i just wondered like how you respond to that feeling. I feel a lot of injustice, a bit of anger in a way. Not like, but I just don't think it's fair. And it sometimes makes me a bit sad. And also this thing that's happened recently this is just my opinion i think there's a lot of mixed opinions on this which is the xl bullies they are my opinion this is just my opinion is that they weren't being treated properly by their owners which is what made them be like that and they weren't all bad dogs with that big ban art that upset me a bit because it's just it's not
00:11:38
Speaker
I don't think it's fair. This is just my opinion, but that's one of the other things. and i I feel okay. i just It's sometimes a bit sad, but afterwards i okay I'm okay. I just was thinking of ways that people could fix things. I quite often think about that.
00:11:56
Speaker
Occasionally they're just made up in an ideal world, fantasy-ish, but sometimes they're more like things I could actually do to help or people could do.
Challenges and Joys of Vegan Life
00:12:06
Speaker
Well, I mean, choosing to live your life in this way from such an early age, that's making a huge difference, isn't it? Because a lot of people come to compassionate living and veganism. They come to that sort of towards the end of their life or maybe halfway through, which is great, but it doesn't mean there's been a whole lot of suffering they've been unintentionally or intentionally causing before then, whereas you you're kind of avoiding that. So that that's a massive thing that you've already done.
00:12:35
Speaker
Yeah. Which is good, isn't it? Yeah. What do you think, let' you've said you're going to be talking about some happier, lighter things later, but what whilst we're whilst we're talking about the the darker, less happy things, what's the hardest thing about being vegan for you?
00:12:52
Speaker
um Well, one of the very hard things is when you accidentally eat something that wasn't vegan and you don't know, sometimes you find out later on or sometimes you just realise once you've bitten into it, that really upsets me. I don't like that because... Why is that?
00:13:09
Speaker
It's just, it's the animal product. And once I've eaten that, it's just, it doesn't feel fair. And I just, I feel really upset and it's just, yeah, because I've eaten the thing that I've, and I've like, I never want to eat those things. And I can only ever remember it happening like three times.
00:13:29
Speaker
It still upsets me, aren' even just sometimes thinking about them, I still feel a bit like that was a very sad time. But other things that are upsetting, some of the other hardest things are like sometimes just going into a shop and having to read the ingredients. That can be a bit annoying having to just read it every time. Yeah.
00:13:52
Speaker
And that's not too hard, but, you know. And then it's also another hard thing. This isn't the worst one, but um it's sometimes when, like, something is going on and there's, like, some food that has been brought, but it isn't vegan, you can't eat it. Everyone else is.
00:14:09
Speaker
And I'm not too bothered about that. Occasionally I am, not much. And obviously I think other people could be more bothered by that than I am. They could, I'm not saying anyone is, but that's one of the things.
00:14:23
Speaker
I find that really difficult. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's for me, it's seeing people happy about food or products that have got animal exploitation involved. And I can see them feeling happy.
00:14:38
Speaker
But I'm thinking about the fact that pain and injustice yeah has happened at the same time. Yeah, and that is one of the big things. And it's not always when you think vegan, that's not always what comes into your mind. But that is one of the things that happens. And people might process it differently. But obviously, it's a it's one problem, but it's thought of in many different ways. So it's a lot it's a different problem for every person. And it's also the same problem in a way.
00:15:06
Speaker
That's a really wise way of putting it. That's really helpful. Okay, we've been negative about that. Let's flip it then. What's the best bit about being vegan? Um... I don't... That's really... I just... There's so many nice things, but...
00:15:22
Speaker
I mean, one really good thing is when this is just when you go into a cafe and it's so nice because there's places where they don't have this and everything's vegan, all the cakes, everything, you can just pick whatever you want.
00:15:37
Speaker
And that is really nice because being vegan, you can't always do that. But when that comes, it's really great. And obviously if you weren't vegan, it wouldn't matter. But when you are, it's really great going to one of those places.
00:15:51
Speaker
oh so you can appreciate having that choice a lot more is that what you're saying yeah about having it so much more just having the choice of anything yeah obviously you have to it's not like i'll pay like a hundred pounds it's not like that sort of choice that much but it's like obviously just knowing that i can't eat any of these things do you find it do you think for you being vegan is easy hard somewhere in the middle like if if 10 is hard and zero is easy like how how hard is it
00:16:26
Speaker
Yeah, well, when things happen, it's about maybe a three for me, two or three. Sorry, when, what do you mean when things happen? When things happen, like when I have said that I've eaten things or that aren't right, like that are non-vegan, or just like those other, some of the problems I've said about before, yeah they can be hard.
00:16:50
Speaker
But I think it's not that hard. um i There's so many good things. I wouldn't say it's just easy, but there's so many good things. in So I would say maybe a three.
00:17:05
Speaker
Okay, nice. So that that doesn't sound too difficult, really. how How often are you having to think about it? Are you having to think, oh, I need to do something differently now because I'm vegan?
00:17:17
Speaker
um Not often. yeah ah I just, yeah, get on with it. That's cool. You spoke just then about different people processing things in different ways. yeah Sometimes we meet vegans who seem really chill low back yeah and Then we meet other people who are vegan who seem really shouting, really angry.
00:17:40
Speaker
And probably we all feel those different things at different times. What makes you ah really angry, shouty vegan? What makes you want to rant and tell people, you're all doing the wrong thing, you're really bad?
00:17:53
Speaker
um don't know. um Occasionally there's things like... and Occasionally there's things like that duck meal. What was that called? Foie gras. Yeah, foie gras.
00:18:04
Speaker
That one is quite upsetting. And that there's things like that it's just like... the really bad things and like when the animals are being harmed or just some people just the way they do things and like the irony of some things.
00:18:19
Speaker
where There's irony of some things when people might say they love animals and the next second they're saying how much they love meat. That can be a bit annoying. I haven't met many people like that, but i if I think about someone doing that, it would be very annoying.
00:18:37
Speaker
So a question that Julie, who often hosts the show, wanted to ask you was... How do you feel about the fact that you've given a lot of thought to something and you understand something in terms of animal rights, you understand something a lot better than most adults.
00:18:59
Speaker
And those who don't understand that or aren't of that way of thinking are unintentionally or intentionally causing harm to animals. Does that feel more frustrating because a lot of the people doing that are adults and sort quote, should know better?
00:19:16
Speaker
Is that anything that you sort of think about sometimes? don't know. If they're not really knowing what they're doing wrong, it's not too bad. But sometimes it can be a bit annoying. I don't know.
00:19:30
Speaker
It's just... Yeah, well, when they're adults... I don't know people, i they should know better if they, i mean, i think they should not be doing that, but I can like see because they've, if they've grown up as a kid, because in the last generation, it was most people weren't vegan, like not long ago, a few generations ago, it wasn't really as like a bigger thing as now, probably. and um i mean, yeah, so,
00:20:01
Speaker
Those people have grown up and always just eaten meat and that's always just been the thing. Yeah. It's hard for them to change their mindset so much and their lifestyle.
00:20:13
Speaker
So and a way, they might know better, but they might not be able to change that easily. is i think that's a really balanced and thoughtful way of looking at it, to be honest with you.
00:20:26
Speaker
Do you think we should make the world vegan? Like, should would we make it happen? Like, if we could push a button or we were in charge of the law, should we just do it and say, you've got no choice?
00:20:38
Speaker
No, I wouldn't just make it so that everyone had no choice. There was things where I wish that people would be a bit more respectful and get like maybe like get their meat from somewhere more like a natural farm, get their eggs from a farm, like a local farm somewhere.
00:20:57
Speaker
get their fish from somewhere it's more local not factory farming and not factory stuff i just think if people more respectful and less and the other oh yeah one other thing i forgot say earlier that i hate is it doesn't really happen to me really much i don't know if it's happened to me before i think it has a tiny bit when someone is like oh look, up oh look at this meat and it's just really annoying. It's like they don't need to show like, oh look meat.
00:21:27
Speaker
yeah Because ah don't want to see the meat, do I? and they know, but it's just really annoying how they'll do that. yeah Some people will. And that really irritates me.
00:21:40
Speaker
Yeah.
Influencing Others Towards Veganism
00:21:42
Speaker
So it sounds to me like you're saying that there are certain things that should should definitely not happen and should be ruled out. So you've mentioned factory farming there. Yeah.
00:21:52
Speaker
And then there are other things where it's more about people should have the choice, but you'd you'd hope that they'd be influenced to make kinder choices and to make vegan choices. Yeah.
00:22:03
Speaker
what Do you have an opinion on on the best ways to persuade people or to influence people to make kinder choices? I think just... I mean, the bad way is is like is saying you're doing it wrong, you shouldn't be doing that, it's really horrible.
00:22:19
Speaker
And just going think, oh, that person's so rude and annoying, why would I want to listen to them? But if you're saying it in a nice way and if you're just modelling to them how you're vegan and reasons why...
00:22:31
Speaker
and just things that you do, instead of saying about good things about being vegan, that might make them just choose to change that because...
00:22:44
Speaker
They've had more of, like, influence of it and not just someone saying you have to be vegan. And the other thing I find annoying, that my I think what someone I know said about it, it's like there's this one vegan who will always be, like, in a shop or someone said this to me, but or a place and they're like, oh, blah, blah, blah, about the non-vegan food, just shouting about Yeah.
00:23:08
Speaker
yeah When someone's just eating a meal and it's like... Okay, you can have that opinion, but you don't need to be shouting and shaming someone in a restaurant or so people like that.
00:23:20
Speaker
Vegans like that. You don't need to shame someone in a restaurant because they've that's their lifestyle choice. That's just not the right way to go about it. And that can make other vegans look bad.
00:23:32
Speaker
Why is it you think people sometimes do, like we could phrase that as like going a bit over the top or being a bit extreme. why do you think people do that? don't know, they've just got, probably got really strong emotions about the thing and they just want to change it, but that way doesn't always work. But people can struggle with it.
00:23:53
Speaker
It's hard, isn't it? Because like you say, it's strong, strong emotions and feelings about injustice. Yeah. But like you say, it may, be sometimes it's not the best way. Sometimes it might work, but it's difficult to know. Yeah.
00:24:08
Speaker
I'm wondering, Logan, a lot of your family are vegetarian and a lot of them are vegan as well. you've got You've got a lot of people in your in your family who are choosing to avoid some or all animal products.
00:24:24
Speaker
Do you think that helps you be vegan? um Sort of. It's nice how like my mum is vegan. and yeah and my dad is vegan yeah it helps and i think all of that variety most of them being vegetarian or vegan does help why no i don't know it's just like because it's not like everyone's not vegan so we're having to go to like McDonald's every week and having a meal there and I'm just not wanting to be there I'm not wanting to eat any of that stuff and I'm being people are just saying just pick something pick something out of the vegan menu I just don't I would not I think it helps everyone being more vegan or vegetarian because we never have to go to those places
00:25:10
Speaker
Yes. And I guess it's the same with friends as well, isn't it? You know, if if, say, your family wasn't vegan, but, like, all of your friends were, that would help, wouldn't it? Yeah.
00:25:20
Speaker
For a similar reason. Yeah. Can I do a bit of an odd thought experiment with you? Yeah. Okay, imagine that tomorrow everyone in your family said, we're not going to try and persuade you otherwise, Logan.
00:25:34
Speaker
Okay, your opinions are your opinions. But we're all now going to start eating meat and dairy. But you can carry on doing what you want.
00:25:46
Speaker
Like, how would you find that? um Not a nice thing to think really. I'd be a little bit upset but I would still stay vegan. I'd still do everything I did.
00:25:58
Speaker
um because like, and if everyone was going to McDonald's I'd just say I'm not going. You can't make me. And even if that meant that no one else could go some people would have to stay behind.
00:26:12
Speaker
I don't have to go if I don't want to If someone has to stay behind with me it's my decision to stay back. Because there ah there are probably, well, I'm going to say certainly, some children, maybe your age, maybe younger, maybe older, but they are children, so they're not necessarily 100% in control of what they're eating or consuming or buying.
00:26:35
Speaker
Their parents might still be doing that, but they want to avoid animal products, but their parents, their carers, their family aren't in the same mind space. That must be very difficult, mustn't it?
00:26:47
Speaker
Yeah, probably. Yeah, I think I'd find that very difficult. I'm just looking question. I've got a... Listeners should know, I've ah said this to Logan before we started recording, that other, and enough of the falafel hosts have sent me loads of questions to ask Logan. I've never had so many questions in front of me.
00:27:05
Speaker
I've just glanced down at one of them. Does veganism give him superpowers? What do you think? Um...
00:27:17
Speaker
I don't know exactly what they mean with that. If they mean, like, can I fly around the city? Or if they mean, am I just stronger? No, I cannot fly around the city or anything. I don't have laser vision or some or super strength. But um I am healthy.
00:27:36
Speaker
Right, yeah. In that way. And i I am quite strong and fast. Mm-hmm. and can climb rather I can do a lot of things but I haven't got superpowers in that sense but um yeah.
00:27:51
Speaker
you've You've spoken there about physical powers. I'm wondering whether you being vegan and choosing to live your life, like it's it's not like you're just being vegan, like there's a set of rules and you just follow them.
00:28:03
Speaker
Like you're clearly thinking compassionately and you're trying to use em empathy empathy fur for other beings. Do you think that gives you, maybe not superpowers, but do you think that might help you in certain ways that if you weren't living your life that way, you might not have developed other things? Yeah.
00:28:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. In what sort of way, do you think? I'm not sure, but ah think I think I'm, yeah, what you've said is true. Like, I think that it's like, yeah, it does help, like, being quite, like, understanding of other a people's opinions and stuff like that.
Personal Preferences and Teaching Future Generations
00:28:43
Speaker
I was thinking the same thing. You're you're thinking very carefully about the injustice about animals. And I'm wondering whether that helps you with your friends or with other human beings or the environment or things. It might might extend that too.
00:28:57
Speaker
I think we should continue going through these silly questions that some of the some of the co-hosts have sent. Let's have a look. What's your favourite vegetable and what is your favourite fruit? um Well, I have two favourite vegetables.
00:29:12
Speaker
Um, like they're a bit strange, but raw celery, usually with peanut butter or plain, and raw radishes. Wow.
00:29:23
Speaker
You're sounding so vegan there. Yeah, and more like the cherry radishes, the more roundish ones. They're like whitey purple colours and they're quite rounded. Them's have got a little spice to them, but they're really good you get them from the right place.
00:29:39
Speaker
What's the right place? I don't know. It's just like... What's the place? The places that... Like, there's some places with sour ones, like, in a store, like, not store, we're in England, we're not American, in a shop...
00:29:53
Speaker
like the big markets you would get like in a factory farm store that's not store shop you would get some that are quite like they're smaller not as juicy that that's the wrong place but the more natural place like the more like farms nicer places they're bigger and like juicier yeah i don't know yeah they're nicer i like them more they have more flavor but but no that makes sense um my favorite fruit would be it's probably going to be another one where i've got two um one of them is cucumber not every everyone knows it's a fruit it is good knowledge yes and other one would have it i'm not sure but yeah i definitely have another fruit which i probably
00:30:48
Speaker
Maybe it'll come to you later. Yeah, I can just say it later when it comes to me. And we'll wonder why is Logan shouting out passion fruit? ah hu Yeah, watermelon. Yeah. Oh yeah, quite like figs.
00:30:59
Speaker
Oh yeah, I like a dried fig. I like a like proper just juicy fig. Oh really? Oh yeah. Okay, here's an interesting one. I know the first part to this question. Do you tell people that you're vegan?
00:31:11
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Would you find it hard to be a secret vegan? Yes. Definitely. Why? um i Well, if I was being a secret vegan, I wouldn't ever be able to... I'd have to never go, ugh, when I saw meat.
00:31:31
Speaker
ah not tropping it And I don't always, but sometimes it just doesn't... It just looks a bit disgusting. Yeah. Obviously, no one can see, but I just pulled a bit of a face there, thinking about meat. No one can see, because... Yeah.
00:31:47
Speaker
Podcast, but... Yeah. So... is Is that you saying then that it's quite important to you to sometimes be able to express your feelings around animal rights issues?
00:32:00
Speaker
It's not just it's okay for you to just avoid using animal products but there's part of you that wants to speak out about Yeah. about it what Do you think it's okay that some, I mean, some people do choose to be, quote, a secret vegan.
00:32:17
Speaker
So they'll they'll they'll be vegan, but they just don't want to tell anyone. Do you think that's all right? Yeah, that's their choice, then that's okay. They're still being vegan. They're still helping in a way.
00:32:28
Speaker
They might not be trying to change the things, but they're still making a little change by being vegan. Mm-hmm. Even if they're not showing it. Yeah. Still something. I think I agree.
00:32:40
Speaker
Right. Nice, simple one. What do you eat? Can you talk us through like a day? Like a typical day? Maybe not today because you've just come back from a birthday party. That's not typical day. but normal day. On some days, the ideal thing is I get up, I'd have cereal.
00:32:56
Speaker
I like a lot of cereals. I'm not going to list everyone I like. I'd usually have a bowl of cereal or at the moment bagels. Then at lunch, there's a few things. Sometimes I'd have a salad um that I make. i What's in the salad?
00:33:13
Speaker
Usually like cucumber, tomatoes, I think celery is sometimes, yeah. And then occasionally lettuce if we've got it.
00:33:26
Speaker
So yeah, and I would also have maybe a pizza sometimes with that. I also like the like corn chicken fillets. Not the chicken fillets, the corn chicken fillets. I really like them because they've got a really nice flavour and texture.
00:33:45
Speaker
And I'd usually have there maybe some spaghetti hoops of that, maybe some chips. That's the sort of variety of a common lunch. Maybe a sausage roll. And then in the evening, sometimes... big old lunch. Yeah. I bet you can hardly move. That's not all one lunch. Oh, okay.
00:34:03
Speaker
No, they're just some things I have lunches. I was going to say, we've had lots of lunches together. I don't remember this feast. No. No. And then... Yeah, but that's not really a pack lunch. I don't just wedge a pizza into my backpack. and um So, yeah. um What was I going to say? um Then for dinner, I would have like spaghetti bolognese, curry, rice.
00:34:28
Speaker
um Yeah, that sort of thing. Pastas. Nice. yeah Are there any foods that you don't like apart from those containing animal products? um There's a few.
00:34:41
Speaker
I like, well, there's the thing of, I don't what I don't like. I'm not fan of spinach sometimes. The one that's, it's just, it's a bit long and sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't.
00:34:58
Speaker
I like it in different ways, but. Yeah. Okay, we're going do another thought experiment now. We're going go forward in time to you being a bit older and let's say future Logan has decided that he'd like to have a child.
00:35:14
Speaker
How would you want them to think about animals? Well, I would, personally, I would say to them that all of these products are made from animals, and if that if you want to eat them, you can.
00:35:30
Speaker
I'm not going to say you're not allowed to, and I'm not going to force you to be vegan, and but it would make me happy if you could be at least vegetarian. It would make me really happy if you could be vegan, but I wouldn't force them to do anything like that, but...
00:35:45
Speaker
What about in terms of how they viewed animals? What, like, opinions about animals would you want them to have? The same sort of opinions I have of myself.
00:35:57
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the other thing is, even if they decided not to be vegan, that would be okay, but I wouldn't ah have them just be going to the shop, big shops, having factory farming every day. I'd still get it from like local farms, and I wouldn't just be buying them a Kinder Egg every week.
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah. Because that's really un-vegan, like it's landfill plastic milk chocolate. I just, no. Yeah. But yeah, that's probably what I would do.
00:36:27
Speaker
Yeah. So the way that people live their lives as a vegan is going to vary quite a lot. And I will say for myself, I obviously live a vegan lifestyle and I try hard to encourage other people to consider veganism.
00:36:42
Speaker
But in terms of actually... interacting with animals, I don't do a great deal of that. I currently don't live with any animals at home um and I don't ah don't really spend much time with animals, but I know that you do.
00:36:55
Speaker
like Do you want to say a little bit about how you try and make the world better for animals as well as being vegan in terms of your your lifestyle and what you buy? Well, i mean, there was a time when there was a fox in our...
00:37:11
Speaker
forest school um called smudge and smudge has had um this massive cut on her leg and we think might have been glass or something from an allotment we've been giving her some medicine and food to try and help her get better and she is better now i think yeah she is And we we did a lot of help and we got quite close to her at times and that was a nice thing. And I was quite worried at a time because I really liked Smudge the Fox. And the spring, I don't it was last year the year before, she'd had cubs and I got quite close and I was watching them play.
00:37:53
Speaker
And it's just like seeing that makes you just imagining... The fox hunters coming. They never would in that area. But when you see the fox cubs playing, or when I saw two a grown fox playing in a field, two grown foxes, um you just it's really sad. and you You just want to stop them from being harmed by the fox hunts.
00:38:18
Speaker
When you see those cubs playing, you want them to be able to be safe when they're older. Yeah. And I've heard about things that you've done on the beach as well. Yeah, when I was younger, ah while that was few years ago, not quite a few years ago, there was a dogfish on the beach and it and it was still alive at the time and it had been wriggling in the beach and I think it has a little bit of a hook in its mouth, but we removed that.
00:38:48
Speaker
And then um after saving it, I put it in the water and then it was too shallow had to put it in a bit further. And then it was it got really far and it swam obviously.
00:39:01
Speaker
i was quite upset as well because a fisherman, he had caught that fish and just thrown it away. because a lot he He wouldn't have even just put it down, he would have thrown it across the beach. So the fish has had a hook in its mouth, been launched across the beach.
00:39:14
Speaker
And then some of them don't even get saved. Hmm. But um then i saw it jumping out the water far away. in a way that could have been, i mean, we don't know how deep their minds go, which is funny because it's talking about the sea. But um ah it could have been that it was thanking me in a way by jumping out the water to show that it's free and it's happy.
00:39:39
Speaker
yeah And then recently I was at the beach and I saw on i source one was near a rock, under like a rocky area, and that one had died and that well that was quite sad.
00:39:52
Speaker
But um yeah, and I just want to help those fish and try and stop them but the fishing. Not fishing in general, people can fish, but that's sort of when they just f throw it away.
00:40:03
Speaker
If it's not what they want, I wish i'd just want that to stop. Very wasteful, isn't it? Yeah. But so wonderful that you you've made a difference to to some animals' lives. That's fabulous to do that directly.
00:40:18
Speaker
Yeah. We started off at the start of the show talking about people's worries about parents forcing their children to be vegan. There will be lots of parents who are vegan who would very much like to bring their children up vegan too but are a bit worried they're worried because of lots of people putting pressure on them or saying oh I don't think you should be doing that if there are parents listening now who are vegan and they're thinking I'd really like my children to be vegan but I'm not sure what would you say to them
00:40:58
Speaker
Well, I think they shouldn't worry. They should tell their children everything about all of that stuff that we mentioned earlier about how I was... taught about these things and told that they were animals and still give them the choice but try and teach them the all that stuff isn't it and tell them that that's not you could, your opinion is that that iss not that is wrong in your opinion but they can still choose it and just let them know all this stuff.
00:41:31
Speaker
Yeah. So that they have a more informed choice.
00:41:37
Speaker
Really important to give people all the information, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think sometimes people will say, goodness, like, I don't want to upset a child by telling them all the horrible things that happen to animals.
00:41:51
Speaker
So I'm not going to, or I'm not going to show them that. What do you think about that? When they're little... Kids can't always, some things like that don't seem as bad. and they They are, but sometimes when you're little, just things don't process as deeply. They're not quite as deep.
00:42:09
Speaker
Sometimes things are just like, they're not as deep. And then the kid realizes that the animal is their friend, so they don't want to eat the animal. But as long as you don't put it in a really like grim, dark way, it shouldn't upset them too much.
00:42:27
Speaker
It shouldn't really upset them, I'd hope. That's my opinion. um I don't know every child myself. but No, because just as well. That would be very tiring, wouldn't it? Goodness.
00:42:38
Speaker
Think of all the birthday parties. yeah Okay, loss last thing now then, Logan. So often in the world, young people, children, aren't given...
00:42:51
Speaker
as much opportunity to speak or to be listened to, I suppose, as perhaps is is right, i I would think so. But now you've been talking to people for a little while.
00:43:03
Speaker
Is there anything else, that any other message for people listening that you think it would be good for people to know or to think about or
Final Thoughts and Future Content
00:43:12
Speaker
to hear? Well, one thing, it isn't completely just about veganism, but it's also about children.
00:43:18
Speaker
Sometimes if they've got something to say, I know that a lot of people will listen, but just making sure that they can say that what they need to say sometimes. never feels sight And like, yeah, giving them the chance to say what they need to say and not dismissing it can help.
00:43:39
Speaker
I think that's really wise. we should probably bring our conversation to an end, shouldn't we? You need to have some tea. yeah you'll You'll be starving. It's been absolutely fabulous. And as you said in our last show, Logan, like it's really good for us to hear people's opinions on what we've been talking about. So anyone that would like to to give their thoughts on bringing up children as vegan or or anything on that subject, you know where to get hold of us. it's Can you remember the email address?
00:44:10
Speaker
Not quite. Do want to read it off the screen? Okay, it is enoughofthepalafel at gmail.com. That's right. If you've enjoyed this show, we have a lot more you can listen to just scrolling down and there's a lot more here.
00:44:30
Speaker
And there was just one other thing. When you send your message in, if you want to, to speak to Azul Anthony, when you do that, Anthony does see me regularly. So if you want me to be able to answer that question, personally, I can say to Anthony the answer to the question so you can get the reply more of it.
00:44:52
Speaker
That's such a good shout, isn't it? We can just have an Ask Logan section. Yeah. There we go. you Careful what you wish for. That could be the rest of your life gone now. okay Anyway, that is enough of the falafel for this episode. I've been Anthony.
00:45:08
Speaker
And I've been Logan. And you've been listening to Vegan Talk. Enough of the falafel.
00:45:24
Speaker
i was gonna say i can tell that's a laugh when i'm editing i'm not even really listening i'm looking at shape
00:45:37
Speaker
yeah loose this will be that outtakes is logan just making fart noises
00:45:52
Speaker
you
00:45:56
Speaker
Sorry, that's just really funny. I'll stop now, I'll stop now. That's fine. Are we going to delete all that? Maybe. See how good the rest of it is? That might be the best stuff we get.
00:46:10
Speaker
What?
00:46:16
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:46:31
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:46:57
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course, around a dozen news items from around the world episode.
00:47:22
Speaker
week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from