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Language and Its Power in the LGBTQ+ Community
99 Plays2 years ago
Welcome to the inaugural episode of The Plainly Queer Podcast; we explore the immense power of language in shaping our experiences and understanding of the world. We discuss the importance of inclusive language within the LGBTQ+ community, the impact it has on breaking stereotypes, and how it can foster empathy and connection.
Join us as we delve into the ways in which inclusive language can create more diverse and equitable spaces, where everyone feels valued and respected.
Online or In-person Therapies: Insight Matters - a fantastic resource providing Queer affirming online and in-person therapeutic support. Visit www.insightmatters.ie for more information.
LGBTQ+ community support in Ireland: https://lgbt.ie/
LGBTQ+ Youth Support in Ireland: https://www.belongto.org/
Transgender Equality Network Ireland: https://teni.ie/
Phone Help Lines:
- Samaritans: 24-hour service – freephone 116 123, www.dublinsamaritans.ie
- Childline: 24-hour service – 1800 66 66 66, www.childline.ie
- Teenline: 8 pm-midnight – 1800 833 634, www.teenline.ie
- Aware (Depression): 1890 303 302, www.aware.ie
- Pieta House (Self-Harm/Suicide Support): 01-6010000, www.pieta.ie
- Bodywhys (Eating Disorders): 1890 200 444, www.bodywhys.ie
- Console (Suicide Bereavement Support): 1800 247 247, www.console.ie
- Grow (Mental Health Support Groups): 1890 474 474, www.grow.ie
- Alcoholics Anonymous: www.alcoholicsanonymous.ie
- Drugs/HIV Helpline: 1800 459 459 www.hse.ie/drugshivhelpline
- Rape Crisis Network Ireland: 24-hour helpline 1800 77 88 88 www.rapecrisishelp.ie
Crisis Text Line: Text HELLO to 50808 to connect with a crisis counsellor who can provide support and help connect you to further resources.
Remember, you're not alone, and there are resources and people who want to help. So please reach out if you're in need.
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Transcript
Introduction and Personal Growth
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, and welcome to episode one of the Plainly Queer podcast. My name is Paula Byrne. My name is Colonial McGrath.
00:00:09
Speaker
And today we are going to be discussing language, the evolution of language and the power of language and how it has influenced and impacted the queer community. Full disclosure, this episode was recorded four months ago, I believe. Yeah. Four months ago. We would like to think that we have evolved as people and podcasters and that our language has evolved as well. So we have learned something from this, we hope.
00:00:39
Speaker
Yeah, and I think as well it speaks to what we're trying to do in the podcast is that we want to have these conversations to evolve our knowledge about the queer community.
00:00:48
Speaker
We're discussing language, the evolution of language. What do you think has changed in four months? Do you think what has changed for us? I would say from our perspective, we've become more comfortable with each other. And so I was talking earlier how our use of profanity has come into the space a lot more. So people are going to notice that, I think, as it develops. But that just goes to show language as well. Relational. You have to feel comfortable.
00:01:15
Speaker
Probably for starters, yeah, we were very respectful, and yeah, gently with one another, and now we, yeah, cut some lines, so just expect that. Actually, I think I have to put a new rating in the podcast. I'll have to put in explicit content, actually, now that we're seeing this.
00:01:31
Speaker
I think there was other explicit stuff besides that. Was there that? No, there was. There was a kind of talk, I think. I didn't know podcasts have ratings. Yeah, you could say, because obviously if you're listening to this in the car with the kids, I think this episode is okay. I don't think anything too explicit is in it. But yeah, if you're listening to the podcast... Oh, stay tuned for the juicy stuff people. Yeah. And enjoy episode one. Yeah. So here we are for Plainly Queer.
Language and Cultural Context
00:02:02
Speaker
conversations are just plainly queer, really. And my name is Clauda McGraw. I am a cancer and psychotherapist from Ireland. And I am here with Paul. Paul, I'll let you introduce yourself there. Thanks, Clauda. Yeah, my name is Paul. I am a final year student in my counseling and psychotherapy. So I'm about to finish my core training. And then I am also a sex and relationship therapy counselor in training also.
00:02:32
Speaker
And I'm also based in Ireland. Two Irish, two Irish patties. That's interesting, actually, even me using the two Irish patties, because today the conversation is about the importance of language. And depending on where you say that, it can be a good or a bad thing. I think, are they colloquialisms? Is that the word? I can't even say the word colloquialisms or whatever like that. But yeah, you really have to, it's about the evolution of language.
00:03:01
Speaker
You know, and even as the topic today was language, it's how we use it. And another one I picked up on actually that I'm trying to get out of is guys referring to multiple gendered people as guys in general, just relating to everyone as guys. And I'm kind of like thinking, well, that's, that's, that's not appropriate anymore, but I'm conditioned to do it. There's another thing that happens. It happens in like my day job a lot where someone will come with a complaint.
00:03:31
Speaker
And I deal a lot with Americans and they would, I'd be like, ah, no bother, no bother. And they'd be like, it is a bother. And I'm like, I know it's not a bother, but it's no bother. Like, as in to them. I deal with it. Yeah. As in you're playing down their complaint and they're kind of like, no, it is a bother. I'm like, no bother. Yeah. I love it. It's just language. It's how we're conditioned to kind of speak, I suppose, and communicate.
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah. That's one for me. I always use folks now because I'm like, like you, I would have used guys, even with my girlfriends. And it's just like, no, it really just isn't appropriate anymore. So yeah, I'm everywhere I go now. Hi folks, how's it going? And remembering to say that. Yeah. And yeah, I was, I was in Australia and I used to use crack all
Community and Identity
00:04:23
Speaker
the time. And they're like, sorry, what?
00:04:26
Speaker
And I know a lot of people will understand that one, but yeah, so language, depending on where you are and who you're using it with, it can mean a lot of different things.
00:04:34
Speaker
So folks, listen, what we're talking about here today, so we are, as we both said, we're both therapists, or therapists in training even, and we wanted to have conversations, plainly queer conversations, because we got together and we're talking about setting up a group of some sort for the queer community, some sort of counselling, some sort of psychoeducation, or something like that, and out of that, out of our conversation, or in that, as two people in the queer community,
00:05:04
Speaker
We were talking about how we felt like we were kind of bad gays. We weren't really in the community, we weren't really in the scene and there was stuff that we really didn't understand and there's a lot of change, there's a lot of
00:05:17
Speaker
for the good in the queer community around language, around pronouns, about even just the letters in the LGBTQIA plus and more and we were talking about sometimes we feel intimidated in conversations, we feel intimidated about how
00:05:37
Speaker
how I come across as a queer person if I don't know things. So essentially we were like, wouldn't it be great to be able to have those conversations? So here we are today having plainly queer conversations. And we hosted an event called Plainly Queer Community Conversations on Zoom today. And the topic we talked about was language. So we've given you a brief introduction about how the importance of language has been.
00:06:08
Speaker
And out of that, again, we decided it wouldn't be great to continue the conversation with a broader community that they could join and listen in when it suited them. So here's the podcast playing the career. So that's how we came here today. And yeah, so today's topic, out of having our meeting today on language and the reclamation of language, we wanted to talk further on it.
00:06:32
Speaker
So yeah, anything else you wanted to say there, Paul? So much as you were talking, but I was like, I shouldn't be rude and interrupt. I shouldn't do my usual interjection thing. And the most definitely as you were talking there and we discussed bad gays and I'm reminded of that movie Bad Moms and like where they were like just the worst mothers, but they turned out to be the best. But it's that feeling that like that you don't kind of fit into the kind of stereotype that is placed on.
00:07:02
Speaker
LGBTQI plus people in their communities as viewed by the larger majority, I suppose.
Belonging and Expression
00:07:08
Speaker
But even as you were discussing there, not feeling like you were kind of part of what it was to be gay. Well, I identify as gay, so I don't feel fully I'm part of that because I don't, I don't embody what is expected of that maybe by the outside. It's crazy.
00:07:29
Speaker
stereotype but even as you're talking it's like I feel like I live in the suburbs of the gablehood I don't live in like the center of the gablehood I live in like the suburbs and I exist on the outskirts in the suburbs and the odd time I'll commute in to the center and go to the odd bar the odd club and then I'll go back to the suburbs and be hung over but yeah so that's probably framing it in that way for me but yes I
00:07:59
Speaker
Language is what we were kind of discussing today in the community conversations. And it was so rich. There was such great nuggets of kind of knowledge and understanding, but more so perspectives. I think there were so many different perspectives of what queer was, what language meant to people. And I think one of the themes that came up today, and I'm going to speak very generally,
00:08:27
Speaker
but it resonated for myself was that language can give individuals a sense of belonging using the term, I am gay in that even saying that those words, they can be the biggest thing or I am bisexual. Like the whole, I know coming out and we'll speak to that later as well, but coming out and like saying those words, those three words, and I speak from my own experience, I am gay.
00:08:56
Speaker
I was years building up to that, you know, and even there was such a sense of feeling like you belong to something when you finally said it. So yeah, I think that sense of kind of, there is a sense of belonging in language, which is kind of, yeah, sorry.
00:09:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, I completely agree and like you, the coming out piece, being finally able to say it. I knew a long time before I actually said it out loud and I even remember telling a friend and not so long after it's gone, I think I want to go back in. I don't really know if I like being out, you know, but actually the
00:09:42
Speaker
I think there was a claiming of part of myself in saying, I am gay. I am a lesbian.
00:09:48
Speaker
And this is, this is a part of me that has been hidden away and using the language to uncover, using the language to uncover myself, you know, because I think one of the other things that came out of our conversation was that how language is used, it can be used for the positive and used for the negative.
Reclaiming Language and Symbols
00:10:10
Speaker
And I know certainly for myself growing up around queer people was like, oh, in hushed tone, they're gay.
00:10:17
Speaker
or their queer or, you know, the F word. All of that was used as a derogatory. It was never used in the positive. Oh, they're so gay. It was never a, they're, they're great. They're fantastic. It was just something to be used to identify our stereotype and put them in a box.
00:10:36
Speaker
And for me, I think I was hesitant for a long time to say the words, to use the language. And yet when I did, I felt freer. I felt more open once I even, and it's an ongoing process once it settled even more for myself. I wouldn't have used queer back then. I think I came out in my early twenties. Did I? No, actually even later in my mid twenties.
00:11:04
Speaker
So it was kind of later coming out, but I wouldn't have even used the term queer. I don't know, like, would you have used the word queer or would you have used gay? Not at all. I mean, listen, I grew up in small town Ireland and literally a one horse town. It's famous for a horse fair. But yeah, there was no, the only use of language was negatively. It was kind of queer was always an aggressive word.
00:11:32
Speaker
And I'm supposed, I'm focusing on queer because that queer community conversations, like plainly queer, it is the word that has been reclaimed and I'm using it myself now academically. So, but for me back then, it was just such a negative. It was the cause, it was the cause of so much kind of isolation, pain. It meant so much. It was like hurtful and it was frightening. So it just made me go in on myself.
00:12:03
Speaker
That's the power of language. And it's, it can hurt as well as kind of, okay, there's hurt, but then there's offend. It's very easy to offend, but it takes something extra to hurt someone with language. I think it's something more, more aggressive and more targeted and more hurtful. So language has so many kind of uses that can be kind of dead, like positive and negative, but sorry. Yes. Queer used to be a negative, but I've reframed it.
00:12:32
Speaker
But it wasn't easy. I remember writing it a couple of times in an academic context going, I write it and I know the history of this word. And I think that's the important thing to not forget our history as a community in relation to not everyone was able to speak their truth. Not everyone was able to use language that defined them or I'm talking specifically about, let's take Oscar wild.
00:13:01
Speaker
And I know we were talking about symbolism and how Oscar Wilde would wear the green kind of flower and that became a queer symbol or art, like queer kind of art and how it was just, that was the only way to express yourself. Hidden. You know, signaling, exactly. And yeah, so I think talking about it today, there was also a sadness in relation to all those that have gone before us that didn't have a voice, didn't have
00:13:29
Speaker
a kind of way of communicating really who they are. So I think that's the, that's, I suppose there should be, I am speak for me. I will try and do that, but to be able to speak my language and that is unique to me, but that hopefully others will understand and as a result, they will understand me a bit more.
00:13:50
Speaker
because I'll put my hand up and say, I'm complex, I've many, many layers, I'm the ultimate onion, you know, peeling back the layers. It'll never be peeled back fully. But yeah, that is... How powerful is language for that one? How powerful is that for peeling it back going, well, what is this layer? I'm trying to understand a bit. I can put the language on that. That gets more meaningful for me. That gets me to more layers on myself that I can understand. It gets me closer to that piece because
00:14:20
Speaker
As a therapist, and I know for yourself in training, if you can put a language on an experience that may have not had language for that, it's a greater understanding of, oh, now I get it.
00:14:34
Speaker
Now that makes more sense. It's just something that was happening within me or something that was happening around me that I couldn't quite put my finger on. And I'm not saying in terms of putting yourself in the box, but it is talking about putting parameters around it going, oh, well, that kind of actually feels good. Because definitely for me as well, when I was coming out, again, not using the word queer,
00:14:57
Speaker
I very much was like, oh, I'm in a box, this is just what I am. And especially in leisure years, I'm like, well, actually, there's so much more to being gay or lesbian, there's so much more to being queer, but it speaks to me as a complicated, layered person.
00:15:15
Speaker
and there's something to be said by that the offering of the word queer allows for that and I have in later years embraced that more and like you when I first started using it so cognizant of the history of it you know and like you said the sadness of actually what comes out in these conversations that not a lot of people were able to
00:15:41
Speaker
the queer. Not a lot of people were able to safely explore that for themselves or have spaces or have spaces for conversations but they weren't sure what was going to happen at the end of it. Were they going to be accepted? Were they going to be hurt? Was the language going to be used to have it turned back on them?
Queer Identity Exploration
00:16:00
Speaker
And so I, yeah, I'm incredibly grateful
00:16:04
Speaker
for how far we have come that the two of us here now consider on the podcast and have a conversation about language and queerness and and be okay because not everybody not even everybody gets that now but from an Irish perspective it's a lot easier but yes the sadness of what how would have to
00:16:29
Speaker
but how to language and the need to reclaim it and empower ourselves was so badly needed because I said this as well earlier, anybody who is coming out and they're struggling with coming out, a lot of the times you'll hear it's because, well, I'm scared of coming out to my parents, I'm scared of coming out to my friends or whoever the people are in their life because at some point they hurt
00:16:54
Speaker
Oh, in some way used as a slur. Oh, they're gay. They're very gay or they're flamboyant or where the word was and the F word. I don't know whether we can say, are we allowed to use the F word? I was going to ask you this because that's the history of the word queer for me was always associated with the word faggot because the two would be used interchangeably to insult me, put me down, hurt me.
00:17:18
Speaker
And I think I've been more embracing of the word queer. I kind of reclaimed that, but the word faggot has something, I don't know, that cuts deeper for me. And I don't think I could ever use that in a way, I don't know, there's something there that maybe, and that goes to show the power of language again. So this word for me has something so negative around it, so hurtful, so
00:17:48
Speaker
know that I'm not ready yet to kind of use that in a way that could be framed as positive or reclaiming or empowering and I know some individuals do and that's perfectly fine but I think
00:18:02
Speaker
It just goes to show how different words can mean different things for different people and can invoke different things. So I'll, I will name it in the space faggot and, but if it's not allowed for sensory purposes, you can believe it. Yeah, I really feel, you know, definitely again and again, oh, they're faggot or if you hear of anybody, you know, in the media, if there's some sort of gay bashing or anything like that, that, you know, you hear about and the word is always used as that
00:18:31
Speaker
slur as to put somebody down because being gay is the bad thing. You being gay is the bad thing, and that's what's thrown at you with that word. And even in me using it, even in this context today, and as much as I've considered it, it still lands. And it lands in such a way that's so different to queer. It lands heavy, it lands hurtful, it lands, I don't, for me, it is not empowering.
00:19:00
Speaker
For me, it does not, what was that earlier today, somebody said queer, you're not able to stereotype queer, was that it? That was a beautiful kind of something that came up. It was a powerful thing. So we'll thank the person who came up with this, but we'll kind of mention it. Yeah, queer is something that can't be stereotyped. Yeah, you cannot stereotype queer. I thought that was brilliant. And obviously you kind of resonated for yourself as well. And you can't. Yeah.
00:19:30
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely. And because of that, yeah, faggot is really a stereotype. You know, there's the negativity, there's the real, it's real darkness for me. It goes really bright to the cuddling core of I want to hurt you, and I do not like you because of your queerness in it. Yeah. Do you know what queer kind of embodies? Queer is difference. And of course, that's where it originated from, you're different. But I suppose, yes, different, but
00:19:59
Speaker
Hey, I'm ready to embrace my difference. I'm ready to own it. I'm ready for that to define who I am, or not define who I am, but for me to embody it and be authentic. I think the word is to be authentic in yourself. And I think the concept of what queer is gives you the ability to be more authentic to yourself, whatever that is on the spectrum of gender and sexuality. It gives you the space to explore it.
00:20:26
Speaker
And I think the word came up earlier for me, just infinite. You know, there was infinite possibilities and how amazing that was that there was this big galaxy out there to a Star Trek fan, but a big galaxy out there to explore strange new worlds of gender and sexuality. And I suppose I do want to speak to something though that you kind of touched on earlier in relation to how the two of us can sit here and have this conversation. How could we, how we facilitate the group conversation earlier, like,
00:20:54
Speaker
how privileged we are in a way to be able to do that. And I know you mentioned that word privilege earlier. I think it is true. And I think it's important to acknowledge as well. Yes, we live in Ireland and we're able to have these conversations, these community conversations, but I think it's important to recognize as well. We are in the, like, that's a small societal thing within the world. Like what I'm trying to say is the world is a dangerous place for many queer individuals still.
00:21:22
Speaker
in modern day and I think it's in certain cultures it's actually receding like it progressed and then it's now receding back and I think that speaks to the fact that you are allowed to be who you want to be but still within that framework of the heteronormative narrative and society you know so in a way it's a double edged sword because you're being enabled and empowered to be who you want to be
00:21:52
Speaker
until it makes the majority uncomfortable. And then you have to go back a bit, you know, so it's like, yeah, it's, it's, it's a catch 22 a little bit. I find anyway. Yes. And I think again, to go back to the importance of language in that, in that what you're talking about there and when it is framed like that, when it is framed in the heteronormative box, let's say, of going, this is the parameters, this is as far as we're willing to go or has, has gone so far in society.
00:22:21
Speaker
even on a global scale. The importance of like when
00:22:26
Speaker
When we're using language to, I don't want to say explain ourselves, we do not have to explain ourselves, but to be understood, to be heard, to be seen, and the value within that as just humans, we are social creatures. We need that community piece. We need to be seen. We need to be valued within, you know, on a day-to-day level of who we interact with to a broader level to society. Does my society value me?
Language and Social Impact
00:22:55
Speaker
And when
00:22:57
Speaker
It is seen as going outside those parameters as I don't understand that. I'd say from a heteronormative point of view, I don't understand your queerness. I don't know what that means or what your sexuality is. It's very much the binary for me. Then language is used to other you.
00:23:17
Speaker
to exclude you from the community. You're not okay. We do not accept that within our society. And again, speaking to the privilege of an Irish society, yes, we are, I don't mean accepted, but like we are included. We are here. And that is very evident in the last few, the last 10, 15 years of what Irish society has been saying quite publicly about the queer community. But when that language again is used to other,
00:23:47
Speaker
There we go is the importance of language and how that we can use it to allow people to understand it. What does queer mean? What does having been able to have the conversation of going, this is what it means to be me.
00:24:00
Speaker
and have it be heard rather than I'm thinking, especially at the moment, the debate around and I hate the word having the debate around transgender people. It's like actually there is no debate. That's ridiculous. But the conversation keeps going on and it's again to other because we don't understand it. But if we are actually willing to understand it, go into the conversation.
00:24:24
Speaker
understand what's been said, use the language to go, actually, I don't understand what you just said there. What does that mean? Get closer to it. Yeah, it's kind of, it's been willing, it's not shying away. Like I'll give an example, I recently done a kind of group work and it was quite a diverse group of people. And I was nearly kind of, because unfortunately I word vomit, it just comes out like that you have to rein me in sometimes.
00:24:54
Speaker
or bring me back on track, but I kind of was really aware, maybe hyper aware of what I was saying because I didn't want to offend anyone. So before I even speak, I'm kind of like, okay, I'm going to put this out there, but how will it be perceived? I don't want to offend. So you kind of, there is that thing where you have to, and I know language is evolving. I know for me as well, because like that, like when we, when I say no bother to play something down,
00:25:23
Speaker
That's that's within me. It's kind of just how I communicate. But if that's going to trigger others, then I really need to look at my language and go, OK, well, how can I kind of I mean, it's it's it's brain training. It's it takes a while. It can't be instantaneous. But to develop a new language that's more inclusive and less exclusive, you know, that. Yeah, that it kind of.
00:25:50
Speaker
But not to the extreme, you don't want to censor yourself. But I think this is going to take like society generations. I'm kind of, I'm realistic in the fact that I don't expect this utopia to suddenly magically appear. I think it will be a gradual kind of thing where it's just a universal language of inclusivity becomes something. But I fear that I'll be long gone before that happens.
00:26:20
Speaker
But yeah, it is the utopia that when you're given the freedom to be and express and here's your freedom, that is the pinnacle to kind of be in a world that's fully inclusive because I believe society, it might masquerade as inclusive, but I think it's still very exclusive. That would be just my opinion on that anyway.
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, and I'm there with you. And again, it really goes to what we would like from Plainly Queer, from these conversations. And that is us as individuals, we're like, actually I am, sometimes I don't know what it is I'm supposed to say, or how I should say it, what the right terminology is. And allowing that space to go, you know, at the moment, if you say the wrong thing, it can be really met with
00:27:12
Speaker
And it's like actually, can I just ask the question going, what happened there. I realized this is upset you and can I understand why. Because it's obvious right now that I don't. And I'm evolving as a person, the language of this piece is evolving as a piece all into itself.
00:27:32
Speaker
keep in the conversations, keep asking, going, okay, what just happened there? I can see you're upset and not take it personally, not let the ego go. How dare you react to me like that, you know? I think it's being curious. I think there is, not to be curious about it, but I think what we're seeing in kind of the greater kind of aspect of society at the moment is a resistance to even approach the topic because
00:28:00
Speaker
There's, it's unknown, it's, it's new, it's, it's, so let's not go near it.
Generational Perspectives and Openness
00:28:06
Speaker
As in, especially in relation to pronouns, say people may not even want to go. And I know there's a lot in the news at the moment in Ireland, especially around pronouns and people in authority refusing to use pronouns in relation to a person's request to do, for them to do so. And that refusal, that resistance to even approach it because it's so unknown.
00:28:30
Speaker
and the unknown is fearful and we like things the way they are. Yeah, things are different for everyone. So yeah, I don't know what I'm speaking to there. Probably more my utopia where everything is awesome.
00:28:44
Speaker
Hopefully we will get there, but I do agree with you. I do think it's going to be generations. I would have heard it growing up and I don't know whether you would have heard it, but like the younger people know, the younger people have it sussed and sometimes that's met with great, let them carry the torch because they know better who you need.
00:29:02
Speaker
and then there's other times where it's like actually they're changing everything and there's nothing to tradition and nothing is held sacred and there's the opposite end of that. I really do see the generations coming behind me and going why?
00:29:17
Speaker
That is fantastic. We are so up on educating ourselves on what's important. And even just, I suppose, again, it goes to the access to language, it goes to the access of information that is the internet that we have nowadays that people can go, what is that? And Google it straight away.
00:29:35
Speaker
they're not waiting on you know the the joe out the door to tell them from their limited knowledge of what they understand the world to be they can get the broader perspective and see how it fits it's sort of like that queer umbrella going i'm going to see what this fits like what does this feel like when i think about it what does this feel like when i am
00:29:57
Speaker
try all these different things out. And yeah, I think the younger generation, and again, keep going with it. Keep, keep that inclusivity. Keep that curiosity. Keep having conversations. Yeah, I think speaking to the younger generation, and I suppose especially it is great when the language is used in a positive context, which it is. So as a younger person, in my adolescent years,
00:30:26
Speaker
all that language would have been used negatively. And as a result, I stayed within myself. I put on this mask to protect myself. I don't want anyone to know I'm gay because every day I'm hearing gay is a negative thing. Gay is this, gay is that. But more recently, and I know you say the younger generation, inclusivity language more positively, but I had a conversation with a 13 year old not so long ago,
00:30:53
Speaker
and being bullied in school. And again, that word, faggot, was being used against them. And I kind of lost hope. I was kind of like, these cycles are still happening where this awful, awfulness is being perpetuated even in the current day. And it is. So I think that's why it probably will take many, many cycles of generations to kind of filter that.
00:31:22
Speaker
that hatred out, that kind of fear of the unknown, because I do think it depends on environments. You know, so because these, this language used in a negative context is learned, you know? Yeah. So, but yeah, it's the generational inheritance of language, isn't it? Yeah. It's definitely in how it's used. But I think it's, we're talking about boxes earlier. I might take the opportunity to kind of get out there in relation to boxes.
00:31:50
Speaker
I suppose to pray we're talking about like how, you know, I'm gay. So, but maybe you don't want to be in that box. You don't want to be defined in that box. I suppose we're talking about, especially for younger people, adolescents like to kind of put themselves in a box and say, okay, I'm this or I'm that, I'm gay, I'm bisexual. I think I'm maybe non-binary and putting themselves into boxes. And I suppose boxes, the word boxes of the concept doesn't sit with me.
00:32:17
Speaker
I kind of walk away, can I reframe this? Because I can understand why a younger person would gravitate to want to be in a box because, you know, it gives, they can kind of, a box makes sense to them at that time. So I reframed it as a house. And wouldn't it be nice to think that instead of being put into boxes, we go into houses. So we go into our individual house.
00:32:41
Speaker
And we have our little maybe one bedroom bungalow to start off with and you're kind of like, well, this is where I want to be right now. And then you're kind of like, well, I might want to, I don't know, I think I'll move to a two bedroom, a little bit of extra space. So you kind of move into your new house.
00:32:57
Speaker
And then you're kind of like, I might do some renovations here and knock out a few walls, put an extension down the back and before you. So I think that's the way to reframe it. We're not getting put into boxes. We're moving into houses and those houses that go renovated, you move on, you try a different house. And yeah, so.
00:33:17
Speaker
And they get built around us, not something that is built for us to be put into. Yeah, exactly. And I think someone did speak to that. They appreciated the reframing of it, but then kind of put caution saying, you have to be careful not to lock yourself in that house, that you're kind of willing to open the blinds and open the windows and invite people in, or to be able to go out of it. So I think that was important to highlight as well. Yeah.
00:33:45
Speaker
Yeah, that again, from our conversation earlier, we have to really, we want to protect the people who said it, but also to thank them for such generous offerings and for one person who said it's not coming out, it's letting in.
Identity Metaphors and Cultural Diversity
00:34:01
Speaker
And like that, the house, you have the door, you let people in when you're ready, how you want them, what rooms you want them in, as much as you want to show them or as little as you want to show them within your power. And yeah, I do love the concept of houses because you get to decorate it, you get to do it in your own way and go, well, actually, I don't like that colour, I don't like that room, I don't like that furniture.
00:34:24
Speaker
And like that, trying on all the different identities. If that feels good for you at that time, go for it. And that's the piece as humans, not as the queer community or anything like that. As humans, figure out who you are and know that that's going to change over time. Most definitely. Yeah, it was so rich actually for such a short kind of discussion and conversation. It sparked so much and you learn
00:34:52
Speaker
It that's what these community conversations are all about, kind of learning different perspectives, kind of picking up different ways of framing things. And I suppose if you can get one positive out of it, that's kind of an amazing thing to walk away from. Yeah. And I suppose even in relation to language, going back to language, and I know we discussed pronouns and I suppose we were discussing earlier language privilege in relation to, especially because we live in such an inter
00:35:20
Speaker
like multicultural societies, a lot of intersectionality, especially in Irish culture. So I suppose it's important that some people, their primary language wouldn't be English. And for them, some languages don't even have pronouns. So it's not like an issue. It's like, there's all this other stuff that comes into it, you know? But I suppose just to touch on that as well, like intersectionality is now going to play a part and we have our language and
00:35:45
Speaker
It's to find a common language within the queer community as we go forward would be interesting to locate.
00:35:54
Speaker
Yeah. I found that, I had the feeling that that sounded wrong, but hopefully it came out okay. No, I think I genuinely think, no, you're spot on on that. And I think it's beautiful and it is, it's to find the common language, but stay curious, keep having the conversations of what that is, because for you and I, it might be similar, but different and that's okay. And as, as we keep having conversations, we're going to come up with different perspectives. We learned so much today from one conversation.
00:36:24
Speaker
So that's the point of it, you know. And so, yeah, I think, yeah, spot on. Thank you. Ooh. What were your questions? Did you have questions? I thought you were going to ask questions. I think I've asked them kind of. Oh, you kind of. So yeah. So before we're coming on today, we were like, okay, let's, let's see how this conversation goes. Cause you know, this is our first time to do this. Is it going to be, are we going to have anything to talk about? We can talk. So.
00:36:54
Speaker
One of the questions was basically, what did you think of queer before having the conversation today, to now and even from this, according to this podcast, has anything changed? Yes, I think it's different. I am comfortable with who I am. I'm comfortable with being gay.
00:37:16
Speaker
I'm also comfortable with using queer to define, not to find myself. I keep saying that word. I'm using queer to be more authentic in myself. You see the way I'm conditioned. I'm conditioned to use certain words for different things that restrict me. So it's like we're conditioned to use language that restricts us or puts us down and we're doing it ourselves or I'm doing it myself. So yeah, I suppose.
00:37:40
Speaker
And that would be another question. What can I say? I'm gay and queer. Can they exist? Are you allowed to interchange them?
00:37:49
Speaker
allowed. What is your conditioning? Even as two queer people, what is our conditioning to how queer we are, how we use language with ourselves or within the community? And I definitely do think, yeah, I catch myself more and more now using certain things. One of the things I'd love to change from today is not having to come out, but
00:38:14
Speaker
letting people in really want to change that. I really want to, that's more, that's more empowering to, I have to expose myself, you know, and let everybody do what they will. No, that's, that's not what it's about as well. That individual really needs to copyright that. So every time you use it, they get money. But yeah, no, most definitely. I suppose what did, what did I take away from it? Just
00:38:37
Speaker
that I, as I was saying, I'm comfortable in being who I am, but that people are at different levels of being comfortable with who they are because of the world we live in. And we are privileged to have an environment where we can do this, but some individuals aren't. They're not in an environment where they can be authentic and unfortunately they have to live kind of this hidden life where they're not speaking a kind of
00:39:07
Speaker
the language they would like to as in to kind of get meaning or to find yeah meaning in life or a sense of direction. I could go on here and about this so rain me in Clodagh. Yeah no no it is it allows for a debt it really does allow for a debt of your experience of just your life in general it doesn't have to be a Ryan Queer at all and for me yeah go for it.
00:39:33
Speaker
I think grateful. Sorry, there's something I've learned today. I've kind of embraced just being grateful for being able to have the conversation. I suppose that would be one thing to kind of that I will take away is just being grateful. What about yourself? Yeah. What are you taking away from today? Yeah, I think it's a deepening of my understanding of queer, what it means to me, but also what it means in the community and the
00:40:04
Speaker
the forgiving piece in queer in terms of the umbrella it holds on, the forgiving piece and offering these conversations and going, we don't know it all. You know, that's, that's, that's as plain as day. We don't know it all. There is going to be stuff that we say or do and it's going to offend or trigger or whatever. And again, go to that curious place. But for me, queer is really about allowing
00:40:30
Speaker
opening up the space and you get to be whatever in it and change and evolve or go back or go forward or go sideways whatever we do and I have a much stronger appreciation for it and I probably did going in I was I'm very much pro queer now and as I say that has evolved like even probably 10-15 years ago I wouldn't have used that and with relatively recently
00:40:55
Speaker
Then probably the last five years, I've really embraced it. And just after today, I feel more empowered to use it. I feel more comfortable, more... I'm loving the word now. We're all about it now. We're not bad gays anymore. We're just queers. We're just queer. We're play me queer. That's what we are. We're play me queer. Get that plug in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:41:25
Speaker
Most definitely. And I think, yeah, the history as well. I think something that's resonated for me today and especially the content we were kind of viewing as part of the community conversation to kind of spark a
Historical Reflection and Future Plans
00:41:36
Speaker
speaking kind of point was the history, but the sadness of our community's history as well. And maybe that's something that could be examined in the future as well. I think it's amazing to recognize how grateful
00:41:52
Speaker
I can be in the present, but it's also important, I think, to see how far we've come and to kind of reflect, I suppose. But a queer as well for me, something that's came up, and I mentioned this earlier, there's something, I know you kind of said, there's, it's not an airiness to it, like a loveliness to it, but a resistance. There's a sense of being anarchist and not like,
00:42:18
Speaker
in the late 80s when kind of there was that the gay movement and the queer movement forward, fighting for rights, the AIDS epidemic, and like we're not gonna die silently. We deserve healthcare and we deserve- Dignity. Yes, exactly, dignity, thank you. But that manner, those people that marched on the streets and took those brave steps, that queer movement and how queer theory came about and everything like that, I think that's important to recognize as well.
00:42:46
Speaker
So I think that is a conversation. I think we're going to have to have another episode on just the history of queerness, the history of the queer movement and everything that goes along with that. And I absolutely love your anarchy.
00:42:59
Speaker
Thanks. I love the way you were kind of like, let's give it 10 minutes and see what happens. Where are we at now? It's like tomorrow. I don't know. But okay, we will leave it at that. And okay, just to say, hopefully anybody that has listened to this is enjoying it. This is being peace.
00:43:18
Speaker
We are literally just seeing how this evolves for ourselves to have conversations and we are going to set up an Instagram page and I will, so by the time this goes out, this will, we will have the Instagram page set up and yeah, you'll find them all in the show notes and yeah, thank you for listening. Paul, thank you for being here and being in this conversation with me as well. I really appreciate it.
00:43:43
Speaker
Thank you, Clodagh. As I say, and I'll always frame it like this, I am the Robin to your Batman. No, because it makes me feel better that I'm not overly responsible for anything because the Instagram page will be set up and I was like, oh, gosh, that'll take me like three hours to figure out. Not at all, not at all. We'll get it done.
00:44:13
Speaker
OK, folks, thank you so much. And yeah, stay tuned for the next episodes of Plainly Queer. I can see the history of queer coming in very soon in an episode. So, yeah. All right, folks. Thank you very much. Thanks all. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening, everyone, to the Plainly Queer podcast. If you do want to link in any questions, comments, queries, or, you know, you can give us a topic to discuss to pull us out of our black holes sometimes.
00:44:40
Speaker
it's PlainlyQueer at gmail.com, that's PlainlyQueer at gmail.com, or you can slip into our DMs on Instagram at Plainly underscore Queer. And remember, together we're not obviously different, just Plainly Queer.