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Lucas Palmer on Finding Purpose, Breaking Out of Boxes, Learning and Growing, and So Much More!
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This week, we are joined by Lucas Palmer for a truly enjoyable conversation. We got to hear Mr. Palmer's insights on health, largely stemming from his own personal journey.
We discussed diagnoses, the psychiatric setting, and how this can place you in a box. We also asked an important question about what is considered normal. This led to a discussion on what is abnormal within the context of diagnoses and mental health.
We talked about finding your own path, discovering what works for you, trial and error, and more. We also covered developing skills, learning about oneself, and so much more!
I hope you enjoy the episode!
I apologize to Mr. Palmer and the viewers for the technology error and the poor quality of Mr. Palmer's track. I appreciate your understanding.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Episode
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Beyond Training podcast. I'm your host, Lee of Dalton. Today we're going to have a cool episode. I've been looking forward to the chat with this fella for some time now. We've been conversing a little bit back and forth on the social media as you know, how it goes nowadays. Uh, today we got Lucas Palmer on the wild stoic.
Introducing Lucas Palmer, The Wild Stoic
00:00:19
Speaker
Uh, I think we're going to have great discussion. I think a lot of our value is aligned here. Um, seems like ah quite a philosophical guy and I sometimes describe myself that way as well. So I think we should have an enlightened discussion today and, uh, We'll dig deep into some, some interesting topics. Hopefully you guys find interesting too. So Lucas, thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you for having me. Definitely.
What is Health?
00:00:41
Speaker
So the first question I asked all my guests, I, I like to get a definition of what health means. And you take this as broad or specific as you'd like, and i'm really looking forward to your insights on this question. So how does it manifest? What does it look like things along this line? I think health is a continuous effort to
00:01:03
Speaker
do good and feel good. I think that it doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a specific diet or a specific regimen or a specific routine. I think it's, um, I think it's the effort and the trial and error to where we're always learning about what works and what doesn't work for us. So health to me is you're in that continuous process of finding out new things about yourself every day and how you can fit in a little bit better, um, to feeling good. Yeah.
00:01:34
Speaker
Yeah. And we keep coming back to this idea that health is a process, you know, it's not really a state of being well, in a way it is, but, um, the state is more so that process in itself. You're always trying to attain a ah better state, a healthier state than you were, than you were. You don't really attain it. And I'm sure we could parallel this to a bunch of different areas in our lives. You know, it's just a journey. Yeah. It's like, it's like the word balance. I don't think that you ever really find balance with anything. I think it's the the search itself that is that balance. Absolutely. Cause you know, when you're like, as soon as you achieve any sort of balance, you know, God tends to throw a little wrench in the plants, teach another lesson, right? They were constantly being pushed, right? To to improve and and learn, man. That's, that's a huge reason why I believe that we're here. Yeah.
00:02:28
Speaker
I'm sure you'd have a lot to say about that. Absolutely. I mean, every time I feel like we look for, we look for peaks. Um, and we tell ourselves that we get to this certain point and then everything will be okay. Or, and then we'll be healthy, but it's really just, there's, there's always going to be something coming your way. And I think that part of health is just getting better at dealing with whatever comes your way, being a little bit more prepared every time. Absolutely. Yeah. Couldn't agree more. Yeah. Yeah. You become things, things don't necessarily get less difficult. They just, you become more resilient, yeah become stronger. You become more of a weapon, you know, more knowledge or power. The waves don't stop me, but you can learn how to serve. Yeah. actually I love it, man. Cool, man. That's awesome. Health. You know, we talk about it a lot, obviously, as the introductory question and hearing in the different perspectives is is so interesting, so fascinating to see, you know, how you can.
00:03:28
Speaker
describe what health is, but you know that that process, we keep coming back to this. It's very dynamic, you know and um I think that's really important.
Lucas's Journey and Instagram Growth
00:03:37
Speaker
so Yeah, man, you your Instagram page is is has always been interesting to me. you know It caught my eye right away, and you've had some pretty significant growth too over the last few months. It's been it's really impressive, and um you know I love your message, I love your philosophy. I'd love to just maybe know a little bit more about you and your journey, you know, because you're a young fella, and you seem to be quite aligned in my opinion. And um'm I'm really curious to hear about that. We have first of all, thank you. um My everything that I share on my in my videos is things that work for me. And they so happen to help other people as well. And you know, the things that I share come from obviously my own experiences. Growing up
00:04:24
Speaker
I always had a lot of emotional distress. So around 11, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, um OCD, and ADHD, I believe. um So those were things that were that were present at a pretty young age. I ended up spending a lot of time in therapeutic settings, so psychiatric hospitals and wilderness therapy, um residential treatment centers. So a lot of my younger life, I guess I'm still i'm still in that younger life, but my I guess my early teen years was spent basically in an effort to to work on myself and feel better. um And I came away with a lot of
00:05:09
Speaker
a lot of important knowledge about myself. And it's a lot of it is just very basic things that are simple but difficult to really put into action. So I share videos that kind of encompass little bits and pieces of that journey that turn out to help other people.
00:05:30
Speaker
That's really cool, man. So like that's that's really interesting that you were given these diagnoses at a young age. And we talk a little bit about that.
Mental Health Diagnoses and Growth
00:05:40
Speaker
Um, on the YouTube and Instagram, a little bit on my side of things, you know, I'm curious how you, how you found those sort of played a role in your life, you know, getting these diagnoses and spending time in psychiatric settings, things like this. Yeah. Um, I think that at at the time it was a very.
00:06:00
Speaker
it was a very restricting kind of feeling because you're given these parameters of these disorders. So this is how it's going to affect you. This is how your life is going to look. And you tend to take those on as shackles. So you you're like, you know, oh, I have bipolar disorder. So I'm always going to feel like this. Or I have ADHD, so I can't focus. And, you know, it's you you accept the boundaries and it's not As a 10 year old, like you don't understand that life still goes on and you still have to be able to find a way to to continue. You kind of just accept it and are like, it's happening to me and there's nothing I could do about it other than find the right set of medication and go to the right therapist and all of a sudden it'll, we'll find the fix. And that really took a lot of time for me to to realize was not true.
00:06:59
Speaker
You know, it it was, it was always, this is happening to me and I need to find the fix for it. When in reality it's, I was still in the driver's seat. I think I was just too young to recognize that. Yeah. it's Well, it's tough as a kid too, right? Because you're not in that state of mind. You're not in that sort of, you're in a really innocent state of mind, right? You're taking absolutely everything in. Yeah. You're not really. You don't really have the tools to assess or criticize what's happening to you either, right? You're just taking it in as an information. You take it all in and you consider and it's all so prevalent in your life and being told, like being placed in these boxes, like you were kind of mentioning there, you know, that this is the way that your life's going to look. Yeah. You know, I'm so fascinated by this part of your story, you know, because um I'm really curious and I like, if there's anything that we can get into, and I know this kind of getting a little personal, so you tell me when when we're taking it too far, but
00:07:58
Speaker
Um, you know, I'm just curious, like how come into light, like how do, how do you come to light out of something like that? Like when, when you're given these labels, when you're putting these boxes, you know, what did that look like for you? So part of the, part of the the issue with, with the way that it was gone about was I was looking at taking medicine for the rest of my life, um, as a very likely possibility. the The way that everything was framed was um through medication and regular therapy, this can be managed. Right now, mentally, emotionally, I'm thriving because I've learned a lot of things and I've come to the the true understanding that my life, my emotions, everything everything with me is a result of ah me. I'm not on any medications.
00:08:56
Speaker
I don't go to therapy, um but it takes a lot of trial and error to realize that. It you know it wasn't something that 10, 11, 12, even 16, 17-year-old me would be able to kind of comprehend. um And and um I'm willing to talk about all this because it's I wouldn't be where I am today if I wasn't there then. um But it was definitely, there were moments where I was extremely suicidal. There were moments where, um, I was just ready to give up and having those experiences, I think gives me the ability to truly appreciate the other side of that. And honestly, I'm i'm grateful for, for being there then.
Radical Acceptance and Overcoming Limitations
00:09:51
Speaker
thatly Well, that's how lucky kind of got to reach at some point, right? You know, some sort of radical of sets of acceptance. Yeah, that's, that's awesome, man. for sure Yeah. ah And that's one of my, like, to be, to be honest with you, you know, this is, this is one of the things we talk about. I think that's one of the main problems with our understanding of mental illnesses and illness in general, you know, we, we view it as someone's broken, you know, they need We need to fix them. You know, I need to fix you. Like you're, you got neurodevelopmental disorder, you have different neural connections in your brain and you're wired differently and we need to get you back to normal. You know, first of all, what is normal? That's a question we could probably discuss at length and never ever come to an answer. Um, you know, and that is especially a problem in the mental health field, you know, and that's been talked about since the beginning of,
00:10:47
Speaker
psychiatry and even beyond, right? You know, um, what's his name? Thomas saws spoke about that at lens, the myth of mental illness, you know, how trying to determine some sort of normal state is, is impossible. And to determine something to be abnormal, you need to have some sort of baseline as well. Um, and it's so subjective, but you know, this idea that, that there's something wrong with these individuals is not a helpful way to describe it in my mind, it's not a helpful way to tell an individual about something that may occur to them, you know, because it's not to diminish one, like someone's experience, you know, because people do through go through episodes of mania or psychosis or whatever, you know, I'm not trying to diminish that experience, but the labels that we give them and that the ah sort of understanding of these as being broken, I think is extremely corrosive to an individual, right? Because then it's an even greater
00:11:45
Speaker
gap that they have to jump to get back to a state of, or to move forward into a state of health and wellbeing and feeling good about themselves, right? Because you have this notion in your mind, you've been told from a young age that you're broken, that you have something wrong with you inherently, that you're genetically abnormal, whatever it is, whatever they, however they want to put it. I just think it's so unhelpful, you know, not trying to diminish people's experiences because that's the most important thing that there is. It's more so the explanation, the philosophy behind mental health. And I think this extends into health in general. You know, all disease is a form of adapting to a set of circumstances, yeah whether you're adapting to a toxicity that you've encountered or deficiency, your body is adapting. It's trying to reach the state of balance and homeostasis constantly. That's the sole purpose.
00:12:37
Speaker
maybe there's more purpose, but that's one of its main objectives is to reach the state of balance, to be able to function properly in our environments, optimally, given the environment and circumstances that we're in. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that. Yeah, I think that i think that when it's when these things are described as, um you know, that there's a there's a ah chemical, you know, down to the core problem with the way that you function, telling, like most families don't know how to process that. Most people don't know how to process an information. So you're going to trust the person that's, you know, the doctor, the psychiatrist, you're, you know, what do I do from here? The solution in a lot of these people's eyes is medicate or do this or do that. And 99,
00:13:33
Speaker
I would say most of the time there is no fix. And, and the way that it's framed, it becomes, it becomes very easy for people to fall into the, I can'ts and, and this is what I'm stuck with. And this is how I am. Um, when you were speaking, you were, you know, you were saying not to diminish. And I understand that because a lot of, a lot of the times when I say something very concrete in my videos, you know, like this is the way something is, people will be like, Hey, look, no, I have ADHD that doesn't work for me.
00:14:09
Speaker
And unfortunately that's something that a lot of us have adopted that sort of barrier kind of way of thinking about things. And it's definitely more difficult for some people than others for sure. But I think that we have the ability to adapt. We have the ability to find out different ways of doing things and health is a process. Like I think that, I think there needs to be a shift in the way that these things are, are thought about and and treated.
00:14:40
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah. Well, and like I was saying there, you know, the individual experience is important. So, you know, the, the, the problem is the crutch of like, I have this condition, therefore that doesn't work for me. Maybe that doesn't work for you, but using the excuse that you have a condition, you know, are you looking for something that does work for you? yeah You know, that's where it becomes an issue, right? It's like, Sure. There are things that I say on social media, you know, social media is so interesting, right? Cause you gotta be polarizing. You gotta be, you gotta say these concrete things. You kind of gotta diminish some people and you know, because you're talking about one perspective here, you know? And so not everything that someone says works is going to work for someone else, right? But just because that doesn't work, doesn't mean that you can use this crutch and this victim mindset for the rest of your life. You know, you have to be searching for something for your ideal, right? And that I think is something that,
00:15:36
Speaker
Is that, that's what we're trying to get at right now. You know, it's that you need to be on, you need to be moving forward in a meaningful manner. You need to be moving towards a state of health, yeah towards a state of wellbeing, towards an embedderment of yourself. Because if you're not moving forward, you're stagnating, right? And I would say that stagnation is just as bad as getting worse because stagnation is getting worse. Cause when you stagnate, that's when things start to go eight, like start to go off, right? That's when things sort of build up, you know, when the, the dam blocks the river and the pond starts to stagnate, you know, that's when you see growths of different microorganisms. And that's an analogy too, that we can take over to my side of things. The listeners are like that for the terrain stuff, but you know, that's stagnation is just as bad and
00:16:34
Speaker
using that crutches, I have this
Trial and Error in Health Practices
00:16:36
Speaker
or I'm this type of way. It's all the same. It's all the same. It's all the same closed mindedness. You need to remain open-mind like or open You need to remain open to maybe this will work for me because that that's the other thing. That's the other thing. you know They'll say, oh, that doesn't work for me. Well, have they even tried it? Have they given it even three days in a row? You know what I mean? Have they given it one day? Have they tried it once? yeah You know, that's the other thing that, and that's where, you know, looking at yourself objectively comes into play, right? You have to see, well, did I give it a good honest go? You know, did I actually try journaling for 30 days for a week for, did I ever do it once? ye You know, and if you only did it once, did you do it correctly?
00:17:25
Speaker
you know, did you do it in a way that was meaningful for you? There's not one way to journal. Yeah. hes what it mean like No, absolutely. I think that, I think that it, like and in my perspective, I had that mindset for quite a while from the time I was diagnosed to probably 16 years old, I'm 21 now. Um, and it, so I can, and I can understand where they're coming from. Um, sometimes it gets difficult for me to, align with it because of the journey that I have had and the the transition that I have made. But I think the question is, how do we get how do we get to that place where we are open to the the attitude shift? If I had gotten to that place when I was 11, 12 years old, I think that things would have happened a little differently, maybe a little faster. But on the same note, I think I had to go through that
00:18:25
Speaker
process of, hey, I can't do this because of this and realizing that I wasn't getting anywhere for long enough to realize that like, I need to make some shit work here. You know, I need to do something differently. Um, you know, it's just, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force, you can't make the horse drink something like that. It's that same, it's that same, like, how do you make the horse drink? You know, how do we, how do we get to that point where
00:18:54
Speaker
we're not putting these cuffs on ourselves. Yeah. You know, I'm curious if it's even possible at that young of an age when you're 12 years old, you know, or, or do you just have to remain innocent for a while? You know what I mean? Like is, is there that like, cause it seems natural and you know, something I've been hearing a few times and I'm curious your thoughts, you know, I can't remember who says it. I've heard most people say it, but they'll say that, you know Everyone's a victim to their childhood you know because you're dependent. You sort of have to depend on your parents. and not Obviously, we're not but blaming parents because I would say most times parents do the best they can, even parents that you would deem bad parents or making trying to make the best of a bad situation that they might have been dealt as well because this stuff gets passed down. It's very clear.
00:19:49
Speaker
but you know We're all sort of victims to our childhood in a way. and
00:19:56
Speaker
We all have to get out of that. Yeah. You know, and flipping the switch for me, one of the biggest things was taking your responsibility. Yeah. For as much as I possibly could, you know, and that mindset shift of, okay, now I'm responsible for this, you know, bad things did happen to me, whatever. Or I have this certain mindset because of all the information that I consumed when I was a child, you know, everything that I experienced led me to how I am today and anything that I don't find desirable that I want to change. That's my responsibility at this point. and taking that responsibility, yeah moving away from that victim mindset. and And that's the thing. I don't think it's possible to make the horse drink. I really don't. I really don't. I think that i think that the the horse has to realize it on its own. I don't think that i don't think you can make the horse drink. I think part of part of my struggle with content is that I share these pieces of knowledge that
00:20:56
Speaker
I have learned over a period of 10 years, um and somebody might not be able to process or truly understand that information just by hearing it. It might make sense, but like I think that understanding on a fundamental level is different than just processing the information. Sometimes it just has to come through experiences. Definitely. Definitely. And for some, it can be powerful. you know as almost ridiculous as it seems us consuming information, especially on Instagram, these short forms, you know, like that does resonate with some people. You know what I mean? Like that it's the way of the world now. And when I was talking to Wes Rowan, my first episode with a guest, actually, you know, he was talking about social media, how you're sending out these little pings out into the ether, right? You're sending them out and people can pick up on them. The other thing I realized, I realized lately,
00:21:54
Speaker
You know, all, well, of course Instagram comments are so negative, right? The negative people tend to bark the loudest. I would say the victims tend to bark the loudest.
Impact of Social Media and Personal Responsibility
00:22:04
Speaker
yeah You know, they, they leave the comments and they're the ones that that do that sort of stuff. You know, you don't even realize who's consuming your content and it, and it's so meaningful for them. Yeah. You don't realize it because they won't message you. They're, they're just taking it in. You know what I mean? There's some silent people out there that are that, and they'll never say anything to you and they'll never come in contact with you. You know what I mean? yeah And even if it's just a seed and that's why becoming the best version of yourself is the best way to help others. And I'm curious about your thoughts on that statement right there.
00:22:48
Speaker
I think that the best we can do is the best we can do. um People like to spread, you know they'll they'll start sharing their their negative opinions. and you know like
00:23:02
Speaker
i i so I first started responding to all of the negative comments um when I first had some videos that had a little bit of traction. And eventually it became like, I'm not gonna change this person's mind in, you know two different comments, it's I can only hope that somebody is helped by this. I know that and i know i know my my content is a good message. Sometimes it might not you know hit the nail on the head. Sometimes it might piss somebody off.
00:23:41
Speaker
but I'm doing the best I can do with the information that I have. you know so It's just a matter of moving forward. and you know We can move this beyond content too. it's just The way you live your life, the way I live my life is not going to resonate with everyone. yep you know and and Everyone experiences this where they're minding their own business, trying to live life. and You can feel people judging you. You can feel people the negative energy around you. You know what I mean? You can feel the side eyes. You can feel a little stare and the, that look on someone's face. You know, the way you live your life, it's going to bother, it's going to bother someone. And so my dad, and he's going to appreciate the hell out of this. My dad always told me this story. Oh, my whole family's going to kick out of this. He told me the donkey story. You ever hear about this donkey story? I don't think so. They're going to love this man. i So there's this story about
00:24:41
Speaker
a man and his boy, you know, uh, like a father and son and they have this donkey and they're, they're going down into town and they're, they got to take the donkey into town. So the father gets up on the donkey and they're walking down the road and people are passing by saying, Oh, look at that old man. He should let his, his son ride that donkey. Like, you know, why, why would that old man make his son walk? So then the old man will come down and he'd put his son up on the donkey and He'd go, you know, people go by and they'd say, why is that young fellow making his old man walk? why Why would he make his old man walk like that? So anyways, the two of them get up on the donkey and they're both up there and then people go by and they say, look at that poor donkey. Why would they both be riding that poor old donkey, right? And then so they both get off it. And of course, you know, what's coming.
00:25:35
Speaker
They're saying, look at these two idiots walking up the road. One of them or both of them should be riding that donkey. You know what I mean? So that's something my dad always told me. And, and I think it's ah an amazing story and God, I've heard that story so many times, but it's so profound, you know, and, and that it ties beautifully into what we're talking about. You know, you got to live your life and do, do what's best for you and what's meaningful for you. And Hey, it's going to resonate with some and it's not going to resonate with others, but it's going to, whether it resonates or not. Whether it plays a, whether it resonates or not, I think it always resonates um on some level. I truly do. And that's why I believe that, you know, just becoming the best version of yourself is truly the only thing that you do. You know, because if you're thriving and you're becoming the best version of yourself and you're becoming overwhelmingly positive, that when people are negative to you, you know, and you respond positively, calmly, lovingly, you know, if that instill, if that
00:26:36
Speaker
foster some sort of negative emotion in an individual at some point in their life, they're going to consider that. They're going to think, you know, this, this guy came at me with nothing but love and I responded this way. Yeah. You know, and, and that can be a spark as well. And so, but at the end of the day, everyone, we're all sovereign individuals. We all got to take responsibility for our own life. Like there's nothing I can do for anyone else. I can just become the best version of myself. That's all I can control, you know? So anyways, that's. it's ah It's a hard pill to swallow. It's a hard pill to swallow. Everyone is, and people are always going to have something to say. And I think that at least for me, it's important to recognize that for one, there is nobody out there who's not dealing with something. Everybody has something going on. And the the other part of that is everybody is not everybody's at the same place in their own journey as you are. So you might be,
00:27:34
Speaker
way ahead of somebody who's way older than you, you might have had different experiences or different perceptions or different childhood. And I think i think considering like my reaction also has to be different. If I'm if i'm being the best version of myself and somebody says something, I have to stop myself and take into account, there could be a ah totally different learning difference here. I could be at a totally different place in this person and I need to tailor my reaction to that. you know And it's difficult. there's Sometimes I wake up to to to messages from people, and it's so they're just out of nowhere negative. And I'm just ready to to go off and be like, yeah, well, well you you know your mom this. And you know like obviously, those aren't the things that are are the the logical thing to say. And it comes from a place of emotion. um But like I have to take a second and be like,
Self-Understanding and Growth
00:28:35
Speaker
Is this really like worth continuing? Is this, they obviously don't have the the same perception that I do and that just is what it is. so Yeah. Great discussion on that, man. I really appreciate your insight there. Um, I think that's an important lesson that, that people can learn. And so big part of that is, is getting to that. this sort of self understanding, you know, learning about yourself. And this is something, you know, these topics in general, I've talked about forever. You know, you got it in your name, the stoics, man. You know what I mean? They love that. You know, how to understand yourself, how to learn about yourself. I'm curious about your own journey in that area. You know, how do you begin to learn about yourself? You know, because self improvement
00:29:30
Speaker
comes from self-understanding in a way, I think. um And so learning about yourself can be an in interest interesting journey. That's also never-ending. But I'm curious about the methods maybe that you've used so far that you've found meaningful in your life. Yeah. um I grew up extremely self-conscious. Everything was tailored to the worries that I have about but about what other people would see in me. um And I got to a point where that I started to deal with that on ah on a level of I spend so much energy worrying about other people's perception of myself that I don't have enough energy to take care of myself.
00:30:19
Speaker
um And i think I think all of that self-awareness comes from self-reflection. I think that even recognizing that someone is self-conscious. You have to really dig deep. I think that people move so quickly through life nowadays. It's always, it's scrolling, it's chasing dopamine. Like we forget to sit and think sometimes. I think that alone time is one of the greatest things that you can do on a daily basis. Like take 15 minutes to sit down and feel the breeze.
00:30:59
Speaker
these kind of moments where you're taking a pause and you're just letting the thoughts kind of roll. you know you When you move through the day, you I think that you compartmentalize different feelings, different thoughts. You push them to the back. um And we need time to kind of let those come to the forefront. um For me, it was a lot of meditation. i would I would wait till it was dark out. I would head into my woods. I would sit down and just breathe. and It was kind of like just thinking deeply on different things. That that gave me the ability to have a lot of self-awareness, taking time to purposefully just be. Amazing. Yeah, that ah time to yourself is so important to do that. I agree, man. I agree. And ah that's definitely one of the things that I think was a catalyst for me. you know My journey really
Introspection and Solitude
00:32:00
Speaker
started to roll during COVID. You know, I was in school and I was on a completely different path and than what I am today. Um, and I won't bore the listeners again. They already know, but I was, I was going to go to dental school, be be a dental surgeon. So I was studying for, I was in my undergrad. I was early, but that was my, that was my path and man, stars were aligned. And you know what I mean? I bite it up really well with the head of admissions. for dental school at the school that I was attending, you know, I was, I was in, you know, it was perfect. And COVID hit and um I really view it as a blessing now as much as I cursed it during it. You know what I mean? And I was bitter and I was, I was pissed. um But obviously that taught me quite a bit too, you know, having the time where I had nothing to do. Yeah, nothing. I used to go sit because I was living downtown Halifax, which is a big city in my mind.
00:32:58
Speaker
probably 400,000 people. um And there was this little trail behind my place that where the train would go by. And there were these little cliffs, these rocks, and it was a little bit of paradise within a city. It was just a little bit of woods. And I would go sit there. I'd feel the sun. I'd hear the birds. I'd look at the birds. I'd watch them. And sometimes I'd watch a train go by. And just that time was so unbelievably meaningful. And I had a little journal. Now, I've never been a great at writing. It's a skill that I want to improve on. In journal and in general, even about myself, I always found really difficult. You know, but that's a barrier. You know, you're trying to protect yourself. You know, our, our psyches do these interesting gymnastics where we block off certain memories or traumas or past incidents. So we protect ourselves. So we don't relive it all the time and think about it and it causes us grief, but
00:33:58
Speaker
getting it up and out can be helpful too. Maybe not necessarily through talk, maybe through a somatic component as we've discussed previously, but you know, even just getting it on paper can be a really helpful thing that you can get that block and you got to push through and you got to dig deep, but having that time to do it, you know, and you got to sit in that silence. You got to sit in note those uncomfortable positions and thoughts. yeah And that's so powerful, man. Yeah. Comfort is poison. 100%. Yeah, it's like like reading. I think that reading is one of the greatest tools that we have access to, not just because of the information that you can get in a book, but you have to sit there and push yourself to stay on that page. For the majority of us with our, you know, how bad our focus is with, you know, screens and all that, like, it's a it's a mental exercise. Absolutely. Yeah. I find myself
00:34:57
Speaker
trailing off, I'll get halfway through page and I'll relate to my life. Yeah. You know, I read a great book. um I know you read it. ah Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Yeah, I love that book. I read a few times now. And each time I read it, it takes me longer to read. You know, because I really, you know, the first time I sort of read through it, and I was like, Wow, best book ever. Second time, you know, you start relating it more to your life. And I just found like it was so profound even going through this book multiple times, you know, but it takes time, takes effort, takes sitting there, being uncomfortable. You got to avoid your, your phone and scrolling through your phone. And you know, it's, it's such an interesting battle that we face nowadays. It's, it's mental gymnastics for sure. Yeah. So getting over that.
00:35:53
Speaker
that phone addiction can be a big step for people too. It's definitely a big step that people take that need, they need to take, uh, you know, and I go back and forth with it. Even now, like since I started posting on social media, there'll be times where I am more addicted to, cause it catches you. You go on to do a post and then you scroll through your feed a bit and then boom, you're on the explore page and it's over. You know, that happens. yeah That's what it's designed to do. So I'm curious about your thoughts on that.
00:36:22
Speaker
I mean, I totally resonate with, you know i'll I'll do a good job with it and then slowly I'll get back into being on it too much. And again, ties into, it's a process. I think that as long as we have smartphones and as long as we have social media, it's gonna be something that is a battle to to kind of overcome. With that being said, I do think that There are ways to to get around it. um Personally, I love the fact that we have the ability to to share things with people on like social media and get information out there. i think that I think that it is a very difficult thing to come in terms with, especially for like a content creator. This is something that I'm going to have to be face to face with for as long as I'm creating content.
00:37:20
Speaker
um but But I think that the ability to exercise control over it is a skill, like anything else, and it's something that if we so choose, we can get better at. um That being said, it's it's it's really hard on the focus.
Social Media Addiction and Nature
00:37:40
Speaker
it It's quick dopamine that is really detrimental. I've had times where I start getting on it too much. My depression goes up a little bit. I don't feel great. I want to go to the gym less. It's a serious threat if it's not continuously worked on in my mind, especially specifically to somebody who struggles with their mental health sometimes. It's probably one of the biggest things to keep in mind. Definitely, Definitely.
00:38:18
Speaker
And you said it's a skill. That was one of my favorite reels that you made. Everything is a skill. It's a good way to look at things. It's a really good way to look at things and improving, improving these skills. So what is, what's your perspective on improving these skills? You know, how, how do you do it? Is it energy into it practice? Is that what it comes down to effort again? Jesus this is getting hard, eh? I think it's, I think it's learning from what doesn't work. I think it's being okay with messing up. I think that we get so afraid to fail that we don't do things. um But I think that failing is kind of the point. Like yeah yeah you fail and you keep going. um Skills are like, if you're if you're going to, if you want to play baseball, your first baseball game is probably not going to be your best. It's probably going to be one of your worst.
00:39:18
Speaker
Do you stop there? Do you keep going? like it's It's basic fundamentals that we can apply to everything, to to our own personal tools that we use for ourselves, to to relationships, to people. In my mind, it all comes together. Yeah. Love it, man. Practice, failing. That's something I got to completely agree on, you know something I remember writing this down in my journal, actually. And it was like, You want to seek failure. You want to fail as much as possible. Cause if you're failing a lot, it's going to lead to success. yeah I was like, and I think, it I think I said something that was like, you know, he who fails earlier will succeed earlier in life, something like that. You know what I mean? like all these If you're looking at someone who's successful, whether it be financially, family, you know, mentally, physically, whatever it is, they failed a lot. That's a, that's the norm.
00:40:17
Speaker
That's the norm. Getting comfort, finding comfort in failure. That's something you want to develop. Absolutely. Yeah. Really cool, man. So I'd like to know maybe about the role of nature in your life. Curious about your phil philosophy surrounding that. Obviously it's a very obvious thing in my mind at this point, but it's easy to slip. It's easy to, to not, be there. It's easy to get consumed by this technology that we're talking about. So I'm curious about the role that it plays in your life and maybe a little bit of how you came to that. and Yeah, I mean, full time at the moment, I am a naturalist educator. So I work with kids teaching outdoor skills, making fires, doing shelters, um using using the outdoors and in ways that are um that that have been used for
00:41:15
Speaker
for thousands of years. um So um I'm outside every day for that. But growing up, I was always in the woods. My my hobbies were you know all surrounding the outdoors. And it's just somewhere that felt natural to me. um there were there wasn't any
00:41:42
Speaker
It felt like home. That's the best way I can put it. um For me, the like ah the sun being out, green leaves on the trees, it brings me a sense of joy that I don't find anywhere else. It's it's the most pure, happy feeling that I've ever felt. and like It doesn't ask anything of me. I can just i can exist. It can exist. and
00:42:12
Speaker
something about it just draws me to it. So in my mind, that's what I want to be able to surround myself with as much as possible. That's why I make my videos out there. It's why I talk about it so much. I think that there is something to say about being surrounded by life and being in unison with it, being coexisting with it. For me, the outdoors are just as much a part of me as I'm a part of it. I'm a human. I'm a living
Technology's Impact on Children
00:42:46
Speaker
organism. Same thing for a leaf. Like it just, it just feels right to me. Yeah. Yeah, man. Like we're, we're part of nature. You know, it's not like we're external from nature. It's so interesting, right? Like we're so distant. We're so far away from it. It's terrible.
00:43:11
Speaker
Yeah. We don't experience the elements. It's a big one. People don't know what the rain feels like on their skin or what it feels like to be a little cold. Yeah. What it feels like to be a little hot sometimes. Yeah. That's an interesting thing, man. Like growing up experiencing the elements, you know, that's a source of discomfort. It's that may be a way that we develop that skill. you know, getting comfortable in these uncomfortable situations. yeah that may be ah That may be a central component that's missing nowadays. yeah if If I can add to that, if i can add to that he there was a point in time where I went to a wilderness therapy program. And this is in the Utah desert in the middle of February. So
00:44:07
Speaker
freezing. And the point of it is, it's freezing. So we're we're hiking every day, there's snow, you you put on all the clothes that you have, you get as close to the fire as you can, and you are still freezing. You can't you there you have no power over the weather. Obviously, you can run and find AC, you can run and find heat, get in the car. But when when you don't have these things, when you're experiencing the elements, like you said, it's you are
00:44:37
Speaker
reserved to dealing with it yourself. you know you can You can give up, you can sit down and say, this sucks, I'm tired of it, I'm not doing anything, or you can deal with it. And I think that's huge. Absolutely. Fundamentally, I think that's one of the big things that is missing. he It's amazing that we stick a screen in front of kids now, they play video games, They're so young. It's, it's unbelievable. Three, four years old and they're already getting that experience. I'm just, I'm nervous about the, the effects that it's going to have long-term, you know, cause you know, we kind of grew up on the cost man where like, you know, I know for me in technology was starting to become really prevalent when I was like grade seven, you know, it was when the iPods that, you know, iPods wrote for a little bit before that for me, but
00:45:34
Speaker
I wasn't really allowed to have them, which I think was a good thing. Grade seven, I got a screen for like my first screen. You know, I, I feel grateful that it was that late in my life compared to what the kids are experiencing now. Now do I think it's still a little bit early? Definitely. I would say so. I've had my struggles with, with technology and video games and, you know, I was fortunate that, you know, I kind of got more. into different things in university and I quit playing video games. Grade 12. I quit playing video games and it was one of the best things that I did. Yeah. You know, and here's the funny thing, man. I went to university in my first year and I was kind of like an outcast because I didn't play video games. Like all the boys would go around and they would play 2K and they would play like whatever video game it was. And I was like, I was the outcast. I was like, Oh, I sucked.
00:46:31
Speaker
We'd be like, do you want to play? I'd be like, yeah, sure. And I would play, just get my ass kicked. yeah You know, like, like, I mean, I played video games, but I never played these, like, these ones, right? And you would need to constantly be playing to be good. And because it's practice, if that's the skill you want to develop and you're going to put all your time in it, you know, you can think about it like that. You go in and you play your first game of Cod and you suck, you go 0 and 50, 0 and 30. You know what I mean? And then eventually you're like, 50 and two and you're sick, but that's practice. That's skill. Now that if you want, that's what you want your life to be sure. But if you want to put that effort and that same methodology into something that's more meaningful, which a lot of people tend to seek later in life, you know, often sometimes when it's too late, you know, but that's the exact methodology, you know, but it consumes you, man. That technology consumes you. And I'm, I'm worried about these kids. I'm worried about them. Yep. I, I,
00:47:30
Speaker
100% agree. like The other day I was watching a probably three or four year old freaking out in a post office and the solution was here's the iPad. and you're you're You're training the reaction to be I'm not okay until I have my screen. and My, my, my instinct is like, okay, when I have kids, they're not getting any screens until they're 18. And I immediately go radical with it like, they're going to live in the woods and we're going to have a farm and it's going to be great. But then I'm like, first of all, I have no idea if my, my future wife is going to agree with that. I have no idea if that's going to ostracize my children from other kids and it probably would. Um, it's a tough pill to swallow that, that, that is part of our,
00:48:22
Speaker
It's part of society now, and it's ah it's ah it's becoming a norm to have, like, I wasn't allowed to watch SpongeBob when I was a kid, and I am so grateful for that, because a lot of the people that I that i know that, like, it has an effect. um having Having access to that much information, like, it had an effect on me. I think that it stops you from cultivating your own experiences and your own perception on things. I think that it's, It's dangerous. um and it Especially working with kids on a daily basis, you see that lack of attention span. and You see that that they're all coming in and talking about Kai Sinat, Riz, like, dude, you're you're six years old. like Touch grass.
00:49:16
Speaker
It's scary, man. the And the parents don't know what Riz is. is and They don't know what all these, this terminology is. They don't even know what their kids are consuming on there. yeah It's, it's unbelievable. There's a, there's a huge disconnection. And you're absolutely right. Like I, I take, I tend to take things to the extreme every once in a while. And my fiance discussed, like we discussed this with the screens, right? It's. Because here's the thing, we're on screens right now. I'm using social media, I think, for a beneficial purpose. I'm spreading my message. I'm spreading, I think, good information. and I'm connecting with amazing people. I wouldn't have met you without it. I wouldn't have met all of these amazing guests that I've had on without it. It is the way of the world. Realistically, are we, depending, depends on what your kids desire in life, but it could disadvantage them to not have any technology
00:50:15
Speaker
knowledge. Now, how you give your kids this knowledge is up to you as the parent. Do they need to be playing Fortnite at six years old and knowing who this Kai Senat is and who the what the Riz is and all that. Do they need to know that six years old? Absolutely not. They could probably go screenless until grade six, seven, eight, nine and be fine because many people can pick that stuff up quick, especially if they're you know, 15, 16 years old, you know, but how do you implement that? And that's finding that balance of, okay, so this is what social media is, you know, this is what it is. And, you know, maybe I'll have to broach that conversation with my kids too. If I'm still making content at that point, you know, I use social media for a positive purpose. Here's how I use it. Here's how it's designed. Here's how it's designed to suck you in. Here's what can do to you.
00:51:11
Speaker
Here's how it can mess you up. Here's the positive effects of it. You know, try and give an objective understanding in a way, right? And you could talk about it. I think that's important. yeah Being very open and talking about it doesn't necessarily need to be using it constantly. Or maybe you do get an hour of some sort of technology or a couple hours on the weekend as a reward, you know, for working hard all week on the farm or whatever it is. right Like you and you're doing your farm chores there all week. You know, so there, it's a really challenging thing for parents. I believe I think it's, it's a hard balance to strike. And is there a perfect balance? Maybe not, because it depends on the kid's need. If the kids just wants to farm their whole life, they want to live like the Amish, you know, that's up to them. yeah yeah But like at that point, learning technology is pretty useless. Any understanding of technology is useless at that point. But if they want to be, you know, uh,
00:52:09
Speaker
educator and they want to have an online platform, you know, then having some sort of understanding about technology, you know, how to design these short form content, long form content, you know, monetization, funnels, all this interest interesting stuff. And it is interesting and it is a whole field in itself. And, you know, you got to be intelligent to to be able to understand this stuff, but there's producing and there's consuming. And I think that's the line that needs to be drawn. I think that's, that's where we're going to find that balance is how much do you, how much should you consume and how much should you produce? Yeah. And I think we could take that again out of social media and just discuss that on a greater level, you know, being a producer is a very important thing. Yep. Curious about your thoughts. In my mind, it's less of a consuming and producing and it's more of a.
00:53:06
Speaker
happening to you and happening for you kind of thing. i think that on the I think that it's a shift in perspective. I think that if something is happening for you, it's there's some sort of furtherance, there's some sort of growth. um Kind of tying back to the the the conversation we're having about diagnoses, like something can be objectively happening to you. Um, sometimes it's a matter of how you're looking at it and the attitude that you take. So I think that specifically like a personal journey, um, you can see life as happening to you. I felt like everything was happening to me when I, when I was growing up and there, there needs to be a realization that it's kind of up to you, whether things happen to you or for you.
00:54:05
Speaker
when you're whether you're that producer or whether you're that consumer. um If you're just scrolling content all day, you're going to be that consumer. If you're finding something that works for you and turning that into something good. I think at at the same time, I saw a video recently that was no no screen time before physical exercise. So there was a dad and he had like three kids and the house rule was that if anybody is gonna consume, I think it was like social media or something, you have to have like half an hour of physical exercise first. And I think that's the kind of attitude that we need to take on for for everything. Yeah, definitely.
00:54:53
Speaker
And, you know, I haven't raised kids, um, but I want to have kids and fairly soon as well. So, um, I've been doing a lot of research. So I don't speak for experience, but I speak from others experiences, sort of this topic, you know, house rule. It's the house rule. If you want your kids to avoid screens, if you want them to be on screens last, or you want them to be on screens after some sort of physical activity, I think that's really interesting. I think that'd be a fantastic rule to implement. Your kids aren't going to do it if you don't do it. Do you want to be a tyrant? You know what I mean? That, that's what it is by definition. If you're going to implement things for the people, for your kids and not for yourself, you know, one, your kids aren't going to learn and and they're going to have this tyrannical view of you. Yeah. And it's absolutely true. You know, when you always see those on social media, you see these posts or and it's like a kid reading a book and the mother's reading the book.
00:55:51
Speaker
And you know, a kid that's on their phone and the mothers that's on their phones, asking the other duo there, how do you get your kid to read? You know, if you got to model that behavior. That's leading by model this behavior. And I think that's fundamental too. And I think that's where we're missing the mark to parents will say, it's, it's nice to say, Oh, I don't want my kids on social media. But if you're going to consume three hours of social media every day, your kids don't stand a chance. And that's your fault. That is your responsibility. And there is no way around that. And that's harsh, but that's true. 100%. I put my life on that. Yeah, absolutely. It is. it's you You lead by, like, have you have you read um Extreme Ownership by Jaco Willink? No. So to anybody to anybody watching, Extreme Ownership is a fantastic read because it it's,
00:56:49
Speaker
if If you are the leader of a team, which essentially the head of a household or a parent in a household, um it's a team. And if you are leading that team, same thing with teaching kids, same thing with, you have to own the outcome and you have to be able to set that example for the entirety of the team. If you're just putting orders out there, you're, you're retiring. If you are, owning the outcome, it's it's the same thing with yourself. if If you want your kids to stay off of the screens and you're you're on your screens all day, they're looking up to you, you can't expect the outcome to be what you're looking for. Definitely. Well, that's on my list now. Stream ownership. Sounds right up my alley.
00:57:43
Speaker
That's the thing, too, man. There's so much to read. There's so much to read. And if I get through 1% of it by the time I die, that'll be a big accomplishment. I got a bookshelf. It's probably going to be pretty generous, too. Yeah. No, my bookshelf is full of books that I haven't opened yet. And it's I got to get to a lot of them, but I'm um'm glad that I have them there. you know I'll get to that. Yeah. It's good to have them. It's good to have them there. It's the options too, that help. Yes. i I used to read one book at a time and I recently started reading a couple of books at a time, like having two, three books on the go. Cause I started, I'm trying to read a little bit more literature, like some of the classics. I never really was too interested in fiction books, but I think that there's a lot of value in it. And so I'm trying to pick that up. So the way I implement that is I read it on the side from my information books that are
00:58:40
Speaker
i I don't know why I find so interesting. you know I don't and don't visualize well. I can't play a movie in my head.
Reading Preferences and Personality Types
00:58:49
Speaker
And that's why I don't like reading fiction or storybooks. Because like my fiance, she'll be reading a book and she's like, it's like I'm watching a TV show. yeah I just can't relate. I'm the opposite. I'm the opposite. it It was always like fantasy books growing up, my my imagination. like sky was the limit. um And then it's been a it's been a ah transition getting into like the the strictly informational stuff. And I like I like your approach reading a couple different things because I know that like I'll i'll get bored easily. I'll be reading something I'll be like you know this information is great but like I can't I don't feel like I can retain this right now. um But I think
00:59:36
Speaker
I think there's so much to offer all across the board. Even reading um a fiction book, it's like exercising the imagination once in a while is this great. and important and It's And this is a thing like, you know, when I was thinking about this earlier in our conversation a little bit, but I study like personality types quite extensively from the Jungian perspective. This is something that My listeners or any of my audience doesn't doesn't know about me. I've i' spent ah years and years studying this and i'm I'm eager to start getting some of that information out, but um that's the sneak peek for them all. so um
01:00:15
Speaker
you know It's different. People are different, right? People are opposites. And I've always had some sort of affinity to an information book. I didn't read shit in high school. I read one book throughout my whole schooling career, but I was forced to read. very different situation. um I've always read information books and and to expand my mind to get out of my comfort zone. I'm trying to branch out. I'm trying to branch out to read the fiction. I'm trying to branch out to read stories. I'm trying to train that part of me that's not naturally strong. That imagination, that visualization is just not a strong phenomenon.
01:01:01
Speaker
not strong part of me. So I'm trying to train that.
Expanding Beyond Comfort Zones
01:01:05
Speaker
And that's the thing, finding these areas in your life that you want to improve and practicing them, learning, spending time and effort, getting out of your comfort zone, trying to become more whole. Yeah. That's what's all about trying to bring it all together, be the best version of yourself. For sure. I mean, it's, it's picking up experiences. I feel like, you know, you there's so much out there and I think childhood and upbringing and early on experiences play a huge part in the kind of like the template that that that you work with. like like My mom loved the Rolling Stones, so I was constantly exposed to the Rolling Stones, and now I love the Rolling Stones.
01:01:51
Speaker
like i think that It's easy to to to stay in that template of what you're used to and what you're kind of formed to like. And I think that it's there's something to be said for making an effort to expand that. yeah
Reflections and Final Thoughts
01:02:08
Speaker
I think that's huge.
01:02:12
Speaker
Well, man, there's been a fantastic discussion. I really enjoyed it thoroughly. This is what I love. This is why I love doing this podcast. This is exactly why I wanted to start this podcast. so I appreciate your time so much. I'm curious about any final thoughts that you have on the episode, anything that you want to add, take as long as you'd like anything that you might've missed. You got the floor, man. How are you doing? It's sad. How are you doing? Like on a, on a, on like a, like, where's your head at kind of level? Like, I feel like, I feel like especially as creators, it's kind of easy to just, just, just see the message and forget about the person, but how how are you doing?
01:02:56
Speaker
No, man. Things are, things are good, man. Things are really good right now. Um, I'm getting married in two weeks to the love of my wife, to my best friend. Um, it's a big chapter. Things I've, to be honest, I've been working pretty hard trying to move things in the right direction. And, um, these are great, man. Like, honestly, this, I followed passion of mine when I started this podcast. I started about eight, maybe nine months ago now. And it's been the most amazing endeavor and you know, it was one of the scariest things that I did. And it's been the most meaningful, meaningful thing. And as much as I harp on social media, connecting with these people, like, you know, learning every day, it's motivating. Yeah. Everything's good in my sort of business life. I'm working on that. I mean, I don't make any money from any of this. I'm just putting in effort because I love it.
01:03:53
Speaker
I love every second of it. And that was really important for me to really figure out if this is what I want to do, if this is it. So things are great in that respect. Things are great in my personal life. You know, it's just, you get what you, you get what you give. And I've been trying to give a lot, give my energy, do the best I can, man. And I appreciate you asking that question. Yeah, man. I mean, i'm I'm glad to hear that. I mean, you've been smiling in your ear for, There's got to be something there, man. You're getting married in two weeks. That's huge. Congratulations. You guys are busy. Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah, this episode, believe it or not, is going to go up on the day of the wedding. That's awesome. I'll have it scheduled. I'm going to take a little time off. I'm going to chill off the social media for a few days, at least, and just kind of soak everything in. Yeah. And so I'll have this one posted ready to go.
Episode Conclusion and Guest's Future Plans
01:04:46
Speaker
That's great. Yeah, man. Things are great. That's great. Awesome, dude.
01:04:52
Speaker
Well, that's the is that the final thoughts then? or That's mint, man. thats That's great. I want to throw it back at you. How are you doing? Things are things are moving. um I can't complain. I mean, i'm in ah I'm in a position where the future is open, you know? And it's really just a matter of of how badly I want to chase the things that I'm looking for. And I think that's a blessing. So just staying busy and and making things happen. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not making anything, you know, but it's, it's something I love to do. And I'm just going to follow that, you know? So happy where I'm at. Love it, man. So how can the listeners find you and your work and your message, man? Because I just, I love everything that you got to say. I love this episode today. So how do they find you?
01:05:49
Speaker
Likewise, man. Um, so my Instagram is wild underscore stoic. Um, my YouTube is just wild stoic and my clothing brand is stay wild H C on Instagram. That should be up and running pretty soon. Yeah. um man Awesome dude. We'll put the links down below and make it easier for you guys to find this stuff. Mr. Palmer, appreciate your time. So very much. This has been an amazing episode. Can't wait to have you back on. I'm sure we can have some, some great discussions. This probably could have went on for quite a while. You as well, man. I appreciate you having me on. It's been great. Yeah. Great. Oh, thank you all for listening. You should know that this is not medical advice. I mean, we didn't really get too much of the medical stuff, but I guess it's not psychiatric advice either. We're not talking about diagnosis or nothing like that. It's for your informational purposes only. Also remember that we're all responsible, sovereign beings, capable of criticizing, understanding,
01:06:44
Speaker
Thinking about absolutely anything, you know, we can understand anything. Don't let anybody tell you can't don't let anybody put you in boxes. That's the worst thing that can happen. It's all up here, guys. We, the people in the greater forest are together. Self-healer, self-governable, self-teachers, so much more. Please reach out if you have any questions, criticism, comments, concerns, whatever you've got. Throw it at me, at you know, or to find me on Instagram. Appreciate all you reaching out. Let me know what you think about the episode. Let me know your thoughts in general. Love to love to chat with you all. It's been great connecting with you so far on this journey. So. Really appreciate you guys for checking it out. And if you found it informative, in any way, give us a like, share, comment. Sharing is huge. That's the best way to get the message out. So make sure you do that. And just remember, guys, there are two types of people in the world. Those believe they can, those believe they can't, and they are both correct. Thanks for listening, guys. Take care.