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#89 Sean Raasch - UFO Cases from the 1950's & 60's
395 Plays2 years ago
Sean Raasch is a UFO researcher, experiencer, video blogger, singer and songwriter. He has spent most of his life as a singer and songwriter, but for the past year he’s been on a mission so to speak out on UFOs. Sean had his own encounter in YEAR 2020.
His own experience led him to found Witness Citizen which provides daily YouTube Channel interviews and updates and is also active in ufology on Twitter. He has been pushing for transparency including calling members of Congress, including live on air! Via Witness Citizen, he has interviewed Lue Elizondo, Steve Bassett, and many more.
Sean Twitter: https://twitter.com/WitnessCitizen
Sean Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/witnessciti...
Witness Citizen YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCscu...
Witness Citizen Website: https://www.witnesscitizen.com/
RAF Bentwaters/Lakenheath with Dr David Clarke - https://youtu.be/2lbgrprmSt4
Watch Phenomenology here: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/phenomenol...
!! SUPPORT DISCLOSURE TEAM !!
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/disclosureteam
Buy me a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/disclosu...
Disclosure Team Merch: https://disclosureteam.bigcartel.com/
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His own experience led him to found Witness Citizen which provides daily YouTube Channel interviews and updates and is also active in ufology on Twitter. He has been pushing for transparency including calling members of Congress, including live on air! Via Witness Citizen, he has interviewed Lue Elizondo, Steve Bassett, and many more.
Sean Twitter: https://twitter.com/WitnessCitizen
Sean Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/witnessciti...
Witness Citizen YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCscu...
Witness Citizen Website: https://www.witnesscitizen.com/
RAF Bentwaters/Lakenheath with Dr David Clarke - https://youtu.be/2lbgrprmSt4
Watch Phenomenology here: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/phenomenol...
!! SUPPORT DISCLOSURE TEAM !!
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/disclosureteam
Buy me a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/disclosu...
Disclosure Team Merch: https://disclosureteam.bigcartel.com/
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Transcript
Introduction and Weather Chat
00:00:02
Speaker
you
00:00:39
Speaker
Hey, guys, how's it going? Welcome back to the show. It has been a very hot couple of days here in the UK. So excuse the get up. I'm still suffering. I've got a huge fan next to me. So if you can hear that, I'm sorry, but I've got to stay cool. Thanks to everyone in the chat for being here live and anyone that's listening or watching after the fact, either on YouTube or the anomalous podcast network.
00:01:02
Speaker
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Introducing Sean Rush and His Work
00:01:05
Speaker
Now, let me start again. I've been having a lot of conversations with people recently, and it always comes back to you've got to look at the history. And so what better way to look at the history than bring on my good friend, and one of the best in the business, looking at old cases, Mr. Sean Rush. Sean, how's it going, man?
00:01:27
Speaker
Thanks for having me, Vinnie. I always appreciate talking to you. I am not one of the best in the business.
00:01:34
Speaker
We could argue about that. No, I appreciate it. I appreciate it, dude.
Sean Rush on Historical UFO Cases
00:01:41
Speaker
I've spent way too much time looking at old documents and getting lost in a sea of crazy cases, most definitely. And it feels like once you start digging, it's like, I don't know if you've ever seen those Pringles commercials, but like you just can't stop. Once you start, you can't stop because each one
00:02:05
Speaker
there's something curious to it, you know, whether it turns out to be, you know, a dud, so to speak, even those are interesting, you know, to find out how they come to those conclusions. And then you run into some of these cases that we'll get into today's event waters is a Lincoln Heath case from 1956, that it's just like, I had no idea, you know,
00:02:29
Speaker
how many amazing unexplainable sightings there have been throughout the course of
Bentwaters-Lakenheath UFO Case Overview
00:02:35
Speaker
time. It's just amazing.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And the thing is, is a lot of these old cases have got so many data points adjoined to them as well, you know, radar and all sorts of things. And you mentioned the Bentwaters Lake and Heath, because I did a deep dive on this channel with David Clark a few months back. And it was all from the British perspective. And we're going to jump into it from the US perspective, which is amazing. So we're kind of covering all bases there.
UFO Investigations: Past vs Present
00:03:00
Speaker
So, yeah, I'm looking forward to that, man. But I thought what we do to start off is obviously
00:03:05
Speaker
There's a lot of language coming out at the moment with the IAA and the NDAA. So I just wondered, we don't have to go too deep on it, but I just wondered how you feel everything's going this year, maybe compared to last year, and is it all going in the right direction for you?
00:03:20
Speaker
For me, so far so good. The one thing that sticks out to me that's quite a bit different from, because I've looked into previous congressional inquiries like in the 60s and all that, and how basically Congress kind of got hosed a bit,
00:03:39
Speaker
you know it all came they wanted to do open hearings Gerald Ford was press for open hearings in 66 and that's what he really wanted but the Air Force kind of talked him into you know getting these scientists on board and scientists on board and doing a study through which you know we know is the Condon report which wound up being a huge dud you know and it but in the paperwork they're like well at least it's something so we're looking forward to this report you know and it's like
00:04:05
Speaker
You know, but what this what I really like is it seems like Congress isn't going to take that, you know, like, because they first passed the original language, it got hijacked pretty much by the DOD and turned into the AOI MSG, which completely there was misinformation because they were put airborne in the title of the group, completely leaving out
00:04:30
Speaker
you know, aerospace, trans medium, but they're not taking it, you know, they're like, no, and they're stepping up the language even more, they're saying, hey, we got to look back to January 1947. And you actually have to do it, you know, and we have to get all these people on board from the CIA Air Force.
00:04:53
Speaker
in the other groups, which I think is great. They're staring at the crap right in the face and they're saying, no, we're going to do it the right way. So hopefully it continues to go that way. Now, if you're like me sometimes, you get a little short on patience, right? You're like, and now we got to wait till December or whatever for this to get passed.
00:05:16
Speaker
And then once stuff actually going to go into motion and play what you know in the background too that things are happening like this stuff doesn't just happen out in order like they're just sitting around and thinking about what kind of I don't know what should we do with UFOs is here, you know, there's stuff happening in the background that is helping write this language. And, you know,
00:05:37
Speaker
To be honest, you have to be somewhat of a fool to think that compelling information isn't being communicated or shown behind closed doors that instigate stuff like this because what they're doing is very strong. It's very strong language. And you don't see anyone really coming out against it. You don't see it in what is a very political world we live in these days.
00:06:04
Speaker
You might get someone like this eventually, but you're not getting a bunch of Democrats or Republicans or whatever saying, what a waste of time. We got this going on, this going on. And you guys are spending all this time on the CFO language. It's pretty incredible.
Travis Taylor and UAP Task Force Controversy
00:06:18
Speaker
And that to me kind of further laments the fact that something is up. And I'm glad
00:06:26
Speaker
somebody is trying to do something about it. Yeah, I agree completely. And one thing, I mean, I've not done a deep dive on the current language. I'm actually going to do that tomorrow with Katie Howland. I know you've done. So I have been preparing speaking to some people. And one thing that's kind of struck me is that then it's not going to be another case of this time the public are going to get a load more information.
00:06:52
Speaker
It doesn't look that way. It looks like they're opening more secure channels behind the scenes for people to come forward and talk without fear of repercussions. So I think people still need to temper their expectations to a degree as far as what the public are going to hear. But just let it be known that things are happening and things are moving forwards behind the scenes. Would you agree with that?
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, and let's be real for a second. That kind of stinks, right? That there isn't something that's gonna be like, hey, public, you know, some sort of obvious, like, you know, disclosure movement here happening, like, our goal is to get this information and freaking tell you about it. That stinks, that that's not more of a thing, but, you know, also,
00:07:39
Speaker
Maybe a lot of this stuff wouldn't happen if that was kind of the prerogative, right? Like if it was like we're gonna tell you about it there probably would be more of an effort to fight up against it so it's kind of like a fine line that you have to walk like You have to do things for the right reason right and honestly the right reason first of all is to protect
00:08:03
Speaker
you know beings of this planet right our military our pilots our navy men and women military um protect that and make sure everything's okay and if you know they're you know encountering these things and having mid-air possible collisions and stuff like that that's order number one you got to take care of that make sure that everything is communicated properly so you can mitigate that as much as possible
00:08:30
Speaker
So it's a priority process, right? You got to make sure things are safe, safety is taken care of. Then at that point, maybe you can go further and tell people about the things you're starting to find.
00:08:41
Speaker
Yeah, completely agree. And for anybody that hasn't watched it yet, go over to Sean's channel, the links below, and check out the conversation him and Jay had with Christopher Sharp and Casey Holland. It's fascinating, and they really do go into quite a lot of information and details on the language. But let's not stick on that too long. I'm just going to give a quick shout out here to my boy Benji. Thank you so much for the $4.99 donation, dude. Two of the best in the business. Hey, we do what we do, and we do our best. That's all we can do.
00:09:11
Speaker
I appreciate that Benji, thank you so much, man. Right, another thing that I wanted to just quickly touch upon is the announcement of Travis Taylor as chief scientist of the UAP task force. So it kind of came out of left field a little bit and obviously a bit of controversy came along with that. I'll just say straight away to me, well, I guess so, you know, we shouldn't expect anything else, but for me personally,
In-Depth Bentwaters Case Study
00:09:37
Speaker
everyone is welcome to disagree. I don't see a conflict of interest with his work on ancient aliens and the secret skinwalker ranch, but that's just me. I'd be more interested just to see what your take is on that whole thing.
00:09:50
Speaker
Personally, I really like Travis Taylor. I think he seems like a good guy. He's obviously brilliant. And I think he takes things with, you know, I think he does things the correct way, right? He's not committing to anything. Just because he's on Ancient Aliens doesn't mean he's coming out and saying these things are for sure UFOs and they're aliens from Zeta Reticuli, or they're all coming from this, you know, place in Skinwalker Ranch to help a show like there's
00:10:19
Speaker
He's saying, I don't know. And what else do you want from somebody that's looking at something honestly that's recorded with multiple sensors that doesn't fit within the prosaic realm of technology that we have or technology that's owned by a foreign country that they know of. He honestly doesn't know. And so he's telling you the truth.
00:10:45
Speaker
You know, let's be frank, a lot of people like ancient aliens, maybe, you know, and I've even said this before, but a lot of people in the community don't care for ancient aliens because of, you know, it goes off the road a little bit with some of the theories. But, you know, if you watch it,
00:11:03
Speaker
They're never saying that's what reality is. They're just having people try to expand their mind to think of different things that could be, you know? And they're always saying, you know, they're never saying, this is fact, you know, aliens built the pyramids. They're like, could it be? You know, if you want to have any chance at fathoming any of this stuff at all, you have to start asking yourself, could it be?
00:11:31
Speaker
You know, I had a conversation with a good friend of mine the other night at dinner and, uh, you know, I'm always afraid to talk about what I do with, with people that aren't into this, but you know, they bring it up and they're super respectful about it, you know, and they actually said, you know, yeah, you know, honestly, I've actually watched ancient aliens before. I like it.
00:11:51
Speaker
And I'm like, well, they, you know, and I'm kind of even fighting back. Well, they kind of have some crazy theories. Sometimes he goes, yeah, but they're never saying this is what it is. They're just mentioning a lot of facts about history and a lot of different unique things. I'm like, yeah, but regardless of that skinwalker ranch, like people are allowed to do different things with their personal life and we don't have to, you know, judge everything that they do. The guys work for, I think it was a DOD or something since he was a teenager.
00:12:21
Speaker
right? I forget it was like two PhDs, three masters, something I can't keep up, but the guy is obviously brilliant. You know, he's obviously a very smart person. And they he's even said it like, they didn't hire him because he was on ancient aliens, you know, that wasn't on the resume that he turned in. You know, they brought him in because of his educational background and obviously how brilliant he is with this stuff. So
00:12:49
Speaker
I'm all for it until proven otherwise. I think it's wrong to make a negative judgment towards somebody without seeing anything. That's negative and just starting out that way. I think everybody deserves a chance. And he's definitely put time and effort in to get that chance. And without seeing his work, I can't really say anything else. And even if I did see it, what am I going to say? I'm not an aeronautical engineer.
00:13:15
Speaker
But my instinct is I like the guy and he seems like a good dude. So I'm all for giving him a chance and giving him the benefit of the doubt. I like watching him on Skinwalker Ranch too. I think he brings a great scientific perspective to everything and he tries to do that the correct way as well. He's not going in there saying, there's grizzly bears coming out of portals.
00:13:40
Speaker
I swear to God, you know, he's just saying that these are the things we're measuring and this could be what's possible. You know, we don't know, but that's why we have to continue to study it. And that's what this whole thing is about is we don't know. So we have to continue to study it, you know, and that's the mindset that we need. And it's, it's other people that keep using things like aliens or, you know, other
00:14:04
Speaker
things that they think would diminish the respectability of the topic. They keep using that to try to bring this down or make it seem goofy, but they're not going to win. An unidentified flying object or aerial phenomenon is called that because it's unidentified. If we thought it was alien, it wouldn't be unidentified.
00:14:26
Speaker
You know, so I don't know that's going to belong when to dancer, but I'm I'm down with Travis until proven otherwise, sir. So that's how I roll. Awesome man. I agree. I couldn't agree more. In fact, I think it is a case of.
00:14:41
Speaker
especially whether you're saying UFOs and UAP, especially in a conversation on Twitter, for example, where it's difficult to get your point across with limited characters and the nuance is not picked up on correctly a lot of the time. And people do just think if you're talking about UFOs and that it is aliens that you're talking about and it's
00:15:04
Speaker
I mean, I hate the word aliens, I don't use it. It's just, it's not, yeah, so. Yeah, we have immigrants from all over the world in these spaceships flying around the country. Aliens from Mexico, aliens from Canada, all over the place.
00:15:25
Speaker
No, but yeah, I mean, and it's these words that are used to pigeonhole things, right? Like, let's be honest, like, things are more complicated than we think, right? Yeah. And you're only gonna shoot yourself in the foot by sticking to, like, one word like that for what something could possibly be that you barely understand, you know?
00:15:46
Speaker
Yeah, totally. So I appreciate that, man. But we're here to jump into some cases. So I think we should just do that straight away. And we are going to start off with the 1956 Lake and Heath Bentwaters case that was a joint operation between the Royal Air Force over here and the US Air Force. And it was around, I think it was two or three bases, if I'm correct, if I can remember. And that was obviously RAF Lake and Heath, RAF Bentwaters. And I think there was another one involved as well, possibly.
00:16:17
Speaker
that and
00:16:18
Speaker
Are you at the right place? I can share the screen and then I'll let you jump straight into what you've come up with. Sure. Yeah. Well, yeah, you're right. There were three areas that picked this stuff up on radar. And I thought what I could start with is this citing letter that was written by United States Air Force retired person. I don't have the information of who that is in here, unfortunately.
00:16:48
Speaker
But it it really.
00:16:50
Speaker
gives a good take on what happened on August 13th, 1956. And so it starts just with credentials. I'm retired 20 years service, 1967 from the USAF. I placed my name rank serial number at the top of the page if you want to check authenticity. He's an air traffic controller throughout a service career and utilized radar for the last 16 years in the control of air traffic. I won't bother listening to the types, blah, blah, blah.
00:17:20
Speaker
If you go to, what I'm going to go to is, so this is pretty much just a brief synopsis, but, and basically what happened is there were multiple sighting reports.
FBI Documents and Historical Research
00:17:33
Speaker
One sighting was on radar was collected at 4,000 miles per hour. Others were 400, 600 miles per hour.
00:17:42
Speaker
So I'm gonna get to kind of, I guess you could say the juicy parts. So yeah, they sent interceptors after, and this is about 9.30, 10 p.m. And they sent interceptors after these UFOs. So I'm just gonna start in the first paragraph. I also hooked in my local Air Force Base Commanding Officer, my unit.
00:18:06
Speaker
commander on my switchboard and there could have been others hooked in also that I was not aware of. I repeated all the facts known to this point and continued to give a detailed report on the target's movements and location. The target made several changes in location, always in a straight line, always at about 600 miles per hour, and always from a standing or stationary point to his next stop at a constant speed. So we have hovering there.
00:18:30
Speaker
and no build-up in speed at all. These changes in location vary from 8 miles to 20 miles in length, so it's dropping out, popping up somewhere else. What does that remind you of? David Fraver's account, Tic-Tac. And it sounds like there's some instantaneous acceleration there if it's just constant speed. Yeah, and no thrust or build-up, right? Going from 0 to 600 like that. So that's definitely an observable.
00:18:57
Speaker
After he says, after I managed about 30 to 45 minutes, it was decided to scramble two RAF interceptors to investigate. This was done, I believe, by the Third Air Force. Skipping to the third paragraph, we immediately issued headings to the interceptor to guide him to the UFO.
00:19:14
Speaker
So they see this UFO, they're trying to have them intercepted, they're telling them where it is. The UFO remains stationary, it's hovering. This factoring of the intercept aircraft continued. We continually gave the intercept aircraft as heading to the UFO and its distance from the UFO at approximately one to two mile intervals. Shortly after we told the intercept aircraft he was one and a half mile from the UFO and it was 12 o'clock from his position. He said, Roger, Lake and Heath, I've got my guns locked on him.
00:19:43
Speaker
Then he paused and said, where did he go? Do you still have him? We replied, Roger, it appeared he got behind you and he's still there. There were now two targets, one behind the other, same speed, very close, but two separate distinct targets. So to me, I mean,
00:20:04
Speaker
You could start to say, is this thing psychic? How did it know to move and get behind him right when he locked on with his gun radar? He was ready to shoot at this thing. And that's immediately when it decides to get behind him. That's pretty intense to me.
00:20:20
Speaker
Uh, the, it goes on to say the first movement by the UFO was so swift circling behind the interceptor. Missed it
Pacific UFO Sightings Analysis
00:20:27
Speaker
entirely, but it was seen by the other controllers. However, the fact that this had occurred was confirmed by the pilot of the interceptor. The pilot of the interceptor told us he would try to shake the UFO and would try it again. He tried everything. He climbed dive, circled, et cetera. But the UFO acted like it was glued right behind him. Always the same distance, very close, but we always had two distinct targets.
00:20:53
Speaker
Between about 200, 600 feet probably closer than that we would have gotten one target both aircraft and UFO. Okay so it goes on some logistics there. Then this gets very interesting. It gets to the emotional aspects of it. The interceptor pilot continued to try and shake the UFO for about 10 minutes.
00:21:14
Speaker
approximate, it seemed longer both to him and us. And you know, if anyone's had a UFO sighting, that is how it feels. It goes by so fast, but it feels like it happens in slow motion. So I've owned that interesting. But he continued to comment occasionally, and we could tell from the tonal quality, he was getting worried, excited, and also pretty scared. Very interesting stuff right there.
00:21:42
Speaker
Um, and so then he, uh, said he was going to return. He was running out of gas basically. And that's in this paragraph here, paragraph three, and the things started fading away. And isn't that interesting? He goes on the intercept. When he decides to stop the intercept, did things like, okay, forget it then.
00:22:01
Speaker
Like, oh, what the heck? So it's a very interesting case. You have instantaneous acceleration, possible psychic aspect going on there.
00:22:15
Speaker
And later in this report, and I forget where it is again here in this report, I didn't write it down unfortunately, but his engine started malfunctioning. And you have radar pickup and you actually have visual pickup as well. And I'm gonna get to that. So I'll just quickly go through these things. You got any questions so far? You know, I'm just, it's bringing about memories from when I covered the case with David Clark from the UK perspective.
00:22:44
Speaker
You know, there were people all over the base while these intercepts were happening listening in in the little room where the pilots gather we're all listening in to you know, because they could hear the tone in his voice of everything that was happening and Yeah for anyone that again hasn't seen that go back because we play some recordings of these people being interviewed and
00:23:07
Speaker
I think the interviews were done about 20 years ago, because remember, this is from the 50s. For context, I'd go back and listen to them for anyone that's interested in the case, because it really is fascinating. Amazing. The next thing I wanted to hit on just a little bit is this point number eight here, and it's by Dr. Whipple, who actually years prior suggested he was with John Hopkins University.
00:23:30
Speaker
And he actually suggested, and this is, I believe it's a CIA document, where he suggested a sky patrol, where there's cameras all over the place trying to pick up these things in kind of the more hotspot areas.
00:23:45
Speaker
So Dr. Whipple is in on this case here. He stated that as far as the report at hand is concerned, no obvious physical solution is suggested. He deplored the inadequacy of the typical UFO report as a scientific document. He further stated that the nature of such reports is not likely to change and urge that if the Air Force was serious in its attempts to resolve this problem, both scientifically and in the public mind that the Air Force do more than continue its passive investigational attitudes.
00:24:15
Speaker
wow yeah wow so i i found that uh pretty strong pretty strong words by mr whipple who wasn't really a believer in ufos either but he did believe in in the scientific method and figuring things out and he knew that this is obviously an issue um just real quick there's there's a couple of like uh one sheets here as far as you know the things some of the things that happened
00:24:43
Speaker
This page is extremely interesting to me because in the end, the United States Air Force said that this whole case was anomalous propagation, so radar malfunction. And the pilot seeing the visual was because they saw Mars.
Significance of Historical UFO Patterns
00:25:01
Speaker
All this is happening because somebody saw Mars in the radar's malfunctioning. Well, right here you can see, I don't know if you can see my cursor here, but... I can, yeah. Okay, the second paragraph here, the GCA operators making these radar sightings were of the opinion that malfunctions of the GCA equipment did not cause the radar sightings. So the people that actually worked this stuff say,
00:25:27
Speaker
No, these things were working. And further in this report, you could see that they actually did checks to make sure that everything was working properly. And in fact, that was the case. So it's always interesting to me when the people who aren't working this equipment and aren't as used to working this equipment,
00:25:49
Speaker
you know, try to tell the operators what the deal is. Yeah. Didn't you say the operator at the start, you'd work there on them for 16 years as well. Yeah. And then here you can see, um, speed estimated at more than 4,000 miles per hour. So, and there was, there's multiple track to third UFO B, which is what they call them a UFO B at this time was reported, uh, as tracked by bent waters.
00:26:20
Speaker
so that
00:26:31
Speaker
If you've got two separate air bases picking them up, then come on. And if we scroll up here a little bit, I'll go back up here for a second. In this letter, he actually talks about a third that picked it up. And the name is just eluding me. It starts with an S. Oh, here it is. Skullthorpe. OK, yeah. Yeah, so. And then there's other interesting things here. So he writes a little drawing of stuff.
00:27:01
Speaker
I'm not a radar operator, but I believe we had one in the chat earlier. Mr. Christian Thompson worked on radar. The Danish was Christian. I might be right. So maybe he understands him.
00:27:17
Speaker
So yeah, and it's a group of 12 to 15 at UFOBs from 0.8 mile southwest of Bend Waters to approximately 40 to 45 miles northeast of Bend Waters. It's interesting how they're going at a speed of 80, 125 miles an hour. All right, interesting. And then up to 4,000 miles per hour. I think that's what you call, what's the word?
00:27:46
Speaker
an observable yeah i mean it's 1956 you know i mean that just says it already doesn't it i mean yeah i think so nothing was a thousand miles per hour then
00:28:02
Speaker
There were people in the UK that just passed it off as balloons. Again, the reason why the interceptors couldn't get past them is just because the balloons were moving in the wind and that, but that doesn't account for radar or anything like that. So it just doesn't make sense.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah, and balloons are going to be stationary and then all of a sudden they're going 600 miles per hour and disappear and pop up 20 miles somewhere else on the radar. Yeah, exactly. So here on this page you get a little bit of the visual sighting indicated
00:28:40
Speaker
Sergeant indicated that his attention was first called to the object by his position size and unusual color He was also aware that the bent waters GCI was tracking unidentified flying objects by radar at this time He described the object as spherical and the size of a pin held at arms length He cited only one object which was described as amber color when first observed later changing to bluish white so
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah. And here we say the object was in sight for approximately one hour, during which time it intermittently disappeared and reappeared. Just like Mars, Mars does that, right? Yeah, Mars is blue, isn't it? And bluish white sometimes, come on. Disappears and reappears all the time. That's a big Mars quality right there. Those dimmer switches on Mars.
00:29:38
Speaker
So here we see the second paragraph says it stated that the 12 to 15 unidentified objects were preceded by three objects, which were in a triangular formation with an estimated 1,000 feet separating each object in this formation. Yeah, so it's just a little rundown of the different sighting. So there's three altogether, I believe. The 12 to 15 objects,
00:30:07
Speaker
actually uh so those were seen and then they all formed it into one bigger object interesting could you imagine that uh those are some crazy balloons yeah just melting right into each other so i mean that's the gist of it yeah nice and these are blue book files right
00:30:32
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Straight from Project Blue Book. And this fell under one of the, was it 700 cases that were not solved in Blue Book that kind of just got, you know, ignored at the end of it? No. Well, Blue Book said this one was anomalous propagation. And that was their final report on this case. Wow. So you have visual identity. You've seen it visually.
00:31:02
Speaker
You're seeing it on three different radars. Um, you're vectoring people into it. It's disappearing, reappearing. It's chasing the interceptor and anomalous propagation. Wow. Yeah. And, you know, I was, uh, read a recent article by, um, that, um,
00:31:32
Speaker
Ryan Graves contributed towards where he was talking about not getting any feedback from authorities on their reports. They send in a report, they don't get any feedback on it. And a part of this case that stuck out to me was the fact that this person who wrote the letter mentioned how when he submitted this information of the sighting, he never heard a dang thing about it again.
00:32:02
Speaker
You know, so we have, uh, 70 years, you know, of, of people submitting reports.
Learning from Historical and Modern UFO Reports
00:32:12
Speaker
This person, this interceptor pilot was, was afraid, you know, for his life. And they don't hear a darn thing about it again. You know, nothing like, Hey, how are you doing? Are you okay?
00:32:30
Speaker
You know, that'd be a start, wouldn't it? And the thing is, oh, in, you know, in other pages of this report, you can hear, they don't want to tell the public that they don't know what it is. Yeah. You know, and that's what this whole thing is about is unfortunately, a lot of this is
00:32:53
Speaker
A lot of the report is just like this, you know, like you can barely read it or like, it's really too bad. But in these little sections, there are little sections where you can read how, you know, UFO societies and other publicity artists would make of such an incident. It is therefore of great importance that, you know, they're so concerned with looking bad. That's their only concern is looking bad.
00:33:21
Speaker
And that was from Dr. Heineck as well, man. Yeah. Wow. So you're right here, point 11. The Lake and Heath report could constitute a source of embarrassment to the Air Force. And should the facts as so far reported get into the public domain, it's not necessary to point out what, uh, what excellent use the several dozen. I don't know what it says after that, unfortunately. Wow. I mean, that first bit says enough, really Jesus.
00:33:49
Speaker
Why would anomalous propagation be embarrassing? Yeah. That's wild. That's absolutely wild. It's too bad really. I've got to bring this comment up. I've just seen it from Jay. I feel like I just walked in on my girlfriend hanging out with some hotter guy with a gray accent. Oh Jay, don't be sad brother. I'll see you tomorrow honey.
00:34:17
Speaker
We can share, come on. Sharing is caring. So, did you have any other cases that you think we could look over at all? Anything that you've covered before?
00:34:31
Speaker
Anything from the 60s maybe? I'm happy to stick with the 50s. 60s. I do have something pretty interesting actually. Let's see if I can bring it up here. One thing I will just say about the Lake and Heath Benwater's case is that in the British National Archives, a lot of the documentation for that case was destroyed.
00:34:54
Speaker
Some decades ago. So there is some stuff remaining, but a lot of it genuinely was destroyed, which is really, really unfortunate. Because that might have given us some really good weight of data as well. Yeah, and that is really too bad. That is awful.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's just the way they've done it over here. There's a massive percentage of the older case documents have genuinely just been destroyed, which is awesome. Yeah, because, you know, I think it's still underestimated how important those could be, especially now, you know, and we're looking at this stuff. And here's kind of this document I'm going to show is kind of
00:35:46
Speaker
It hits on that point a little bit. So this is actually an FBI document. OK.
00:35:52
Speaker
So this is more of my administrative document. It's dated July 29th, 1952. And this is a really good one. And I was gonna save it for my show, but I've been doing it on years. So it's a memorandum from Kay here to Mont or whatever subject flying saucers. Now keep in mind, July 29th, 1952 is like Washington DC sightings.
00:36:19
Speaker
Like this has just happened, right? So we have purpose to advise at the present time that the Air Force has failed to arrive at any satisfactory conclusion in its research regarding numerous reports of flying saucers and flying discs cited throughout the United States. And the details. Mr. N. W. Philcox, the Bureau's Air Force liaison rep, made arrangements through the Office of Major General John A. Sanford
00:36:49
Speaker
of the Air Force.
00:36:51
Speaker
Director of Air Intelligence, US Air Force to receive a briefing from Commander Randall Boyd of the current intelligence branch. So this guy's gonna get, he got approved through Sanford to get a briefing by this Randall Boyd in the estimates division Air Intelligence regarding the present status of Air Force research, Air Intelligence research into the numerous UFO reports, blank saucers or whatever you wanna call them, blank discs at the time they called them.
00:37:22
Speaker
So this is a kicker. Commander Boyd advised that Air Intelligence has set up at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, the Air Technical Intelligence Center, which has been established for the purpose of coordinating, correlating, and making research into all reports regarding flying saucers and discs. He advised that Air Force research has indicated that the sightings of flying saucers goes back several centuries.
00:37:51
Speaker
and that the number of sightings reported varies with the amount of publicity. He advised that immediately if publicity appears in newspapers that the number of sightings reported increases considerably and that people start calling in with their sightings several months that they had that they had several months previously.
00:38:11
Speaker
Commander Boyd stated that these reported sightings of flying saucers are placed in the three classifications. So they went into the different classifications. But the main point here is Air Force research has indicated that sightings of flying saucers goes back several centuries. That's crazy. How do you research several centuries worth of sightings?
00:38:38
Speaker
Well, you gotta read the old books, I guess, and stuff, right? Jack Vallee did some research into that. And there are some, in some other Blue Book administrative papers, they use Vallee's stuff.
00:38:56
Speaker
and some of his research into sightings back in the 1800s and stuff and actually do like a graph, basically.
Value of Historical Documents in UFO Research
00:39:07
Speaker
And Merck influx of sightings and decreases and stuff going back to the 1800s. And that's from anatomy of a phenomenon I believe they used for that. But so he's going there and whatever he's looking at,
00:39:24
Speaker
it's it the person who's briefing him or whatever is telling him that these sightings go back centuries you know wild centuries but yet so were the sightings back then responsible for anomalous radar propagation it's a great point here by robert coford maybe from the vatican it's certainly a good idea good a good possibility yeah and another thing that really stands out in these old cases that from both of the ones we just
00:39:53
Speaker
looked at is that there's so much data there. Imagine if these cases happen now with the systems that we have. I mean, the amount of data that we'd get nowadays with the more high tech equipment, the age of six on the on the ships and things like that, it would be through the roof. And I'm sure they are, right? Yes, I'd imagine so. And this is the thing we hear about it, that they have this data and
00:40:19
Speaker
we just don't have it in the public domain. And it does frustrate a lot of people. I understand that it's sources and methods and things like that. But I'm willing to play the long game on things like that, you know, as much as I want to see data, probably more than videos sometimes. You know, you have to understand that. Yeah, I mean, videos, you know, in the end,
00:40:42
Speaker
I feel like no, people, unless they have their own experience, some people just like you're not, they're not going to believe it. They're either going to think, uh, somebody, you know, hoax the document, no matter who tells them as it wasn't, no matter who released it, or they're going to say that the video was doctored, no matter who tells them it wasn't, you know.
00:41:05
Speaker
And if the government tells them it wasn't, then the government's lying to them because they're using a special weapon. And, you know, they just want to put this out in the open. Like the whole thing I don't get about a special weapon is like, or Lou or whoever else being, you know, like misinformation or whatever, like, why would they come out and talk about it to begin with? No one was. No one was. So why would you put this in the spotlight?
00:41:34
Speaker
Exactly. I think it's a little more sneaky if you just don't say anything. You think? You know, so I don't know how many more documents you want to look at or whatever. I put another one. Let's go. Let's do it.
00:41:51
Speaker
This one, so the Pacific, there's so many sightings in the Pacific. If you just go to the Blue Book Archive and search Pacific, you'll get over 200-some sighting reports, which is a lot. The number one state, I don't know if you can guess in the United States for sighting reports, is
00:42:11
Speaker
Ohio, believe it or not, with over a thousand. Yeah. Wow. Um, but there's so many States that don't even get, um, to, you know, 80, 90, 50, 20 or whatever Pacific 200 some, but this one they evaluated as a weather phenomenon, which by the way, the radar operator here says it was not a radar. It was not a weather phenomenon, but check this out. Two large targets picked up on radar.
00:42:40
Speaker
one estimated to be five miles long, and the other two miles long, targets about two to three miles apart, targets from 90 miles ahead of starboard, oh, 230 degree relative on starboard operator side, yeah. Wow. So yeah.
00:43:06
Speaker
You know, that's pretty big, but the radar operator states emphatically, not clouds. So what kind of weather phenomenon would go for five miles?
00:43:21
Speaker
That's crazy. I'm not sure. It says it's 31,000 feet. That's wild. That's why you get hooked into these reports. It's like, holy crap.
00:43:36
Speaker
you know, what is this stuff? And then this is one that I shared, I believe, on Twitter not too long ago. So these are just gonna be like quick little one, you know, cheaters or whatever. This one, yeah, so this is off the coast of California.
00:43:59
Speaker
in the Pacific, once again, object blinking and inflight from horizon to horizon in 20 seconds at speed of over 10,000 miles per hour. At low altitude, does not conform with any known object or phenomena, case regarded and unidentified. So, but here, this is interesting. Brilliant white flashing light at low position.
00:44:25
Speaker
So I think later in here, I read that maybe it wasn't this one. Bright flashing white light. You know what that reminds me of though?
00:44:38
Speaker
is this pyramid reported to have about 400 blinks within a minute, right? Oh, from the, from the Russell, the 2019. Yeah. So that made me start to start to look at some of these and one of them I couldn't get to, I couldn't get that high. I didn't find any of that high, but I found one that blinked about 300 times per minute.
00:45:06
Speaker
you know, off the Pacific in the same area. So that's pretty interesting to me. Around the same time as well. No, no, this was, you know, blue book time. Yeah, not 2019. But no, sorry, I meant about about this or early 60s. Yeah. Yeah. So here's another one.
00:45:26
Speaker
There's so many of these 1963 Pacific again, unidentified white blinking
Importance of Collaboration in UFO Interviews
00:45:31
Speaker
light in flight from west to east under observation from military aircraft duration less than 15 seconds. Altitude of object unknown, rapid transit across sky. It's literally what we just described. Traveled through considerable arc reports of this nature listing. Altitude is unknown. Considerable height.
00:45:57
Speaker
So what's interesting here, such items as intensity and manner of disappearance are omitted from the service format. Service is NORED. That's how NORED documented their unidentified objects. And why would they emit stuff from a report? Oh, it's not emitted from the... Yeah. Hmm.
00:46:23
Speaker
I don't know. You have to ask the emitters, I guess. I don't know. But it's interesting that norad is, uh, involved with this stuff. Another interesting thing about these is you can see who they send these to, right? 1963, who's getting these UFO reports. It's not just the air force. It's also, uh, we have NSA seven year, DIA, DIA army.
00:46:53
Speaker
maybe joint chiefs of staff i'm not sure jcs wow that's a lot of groups yeah dia uh that's awesome my friend in 1963 they're getting ufo reports so all sorts of people had their hands on this stuff pretty interesting it is man and this is like you just said it's like you come across things like this when you do deep dives and you start
00:47:19
Speaker
you know, seeing similarities and patterns almost in some of the cases from some of the eras and stuff. I mean, I did it a long time ago and boy, I was up late many nights.
00:47:31
Speaker
It's addictive, man. It can really draw you in. Oh, sure, dude. You should look at my phone. It has more screenshots of military documents than I have my wife. At least you're honest, man. At least you're honest. I'm like, I'm going to share this one later. What about your screensaver on your phone? Is that just like your best document?
00:47:57
Speaker
No, that's actually like an amp I had six years ago. I've never changed it. Fair enough. I was expecting to say, Oh no, that one's my wife. Oh yeah. Well, there's the whole screen and then the screen saver or the screen saver in the background. The background is my wife. Yeah.
00:48:20
Speaker
And another place that if people don't really want to dig or start digging in the documents, go and read Graham Rendell's books. He's covered World War II, but also the Pacific and other things as well. He's just a machine when it comes to writing about these old cases. And a lot of them are from the British perspective, but he does also and has also done deep dives into US documents from multiple archives and repositories as well.
00:48:49
Speaker
can't recommend them enough because not only do you get the information, but he points you in the direction of where he got them from. So he gives you a trail that you can go and research yourself. So yeah, I can't recommend that enough.
00:49:01
Speaker
Uh, no, I completely agree with that. Some of his, his work to me is some of, some of the best I read because he's, um, uh, just the details, you know, or just the facts, you know, he's not trying to lead you to believe it's this or that he's just giving you the facts, you know, and, um, you're left with kind of an obvious conclusion, which is there's unidentified objects flying around.
00:49:30
Speaker
And we don't know what they all are. Some of them defy explanation. And that is the root truth of all this. So anything else from that?
00:49:44
Speaker
People have beliefs, people have their feelings. I'm not to say that they're wrong or that they're right. But there's one thing that we should all really be able to agree on based on the facts. And it's that there are objects in the skies and we don't know what they all are. Absolutely. Completely agree. Evade explanation. And it's been clearly happening for a long time.
Conclusion and Future Episodes
00:50:12
Speaker
like some of the stuff we've just looked at some of the stuff you obviously cover on your channel an awful lot you know they can't all be just brushed aside with simple prosaic explanations they are genuine unknowns and that's okay it is and we're not saying it's aliens yeah well some people are but yeah but i mean i think i'm like you we'll just say they genuinely are unknown and you know maybe even a majority of these old cases we'll never know but
00:50:42
Speaker
Right. That's the kind of sad part is some of these I read, I'm like, I'll never know. But looking at old cases can help with researching new cases as well. Yeah. Even if you can't solve that old case, if you see correlation to something that's happening in a more recent case, then that just helps. So that's kind of a bonus for me personally.
00:51:05
Speaker
What is one of your favorite cases, or what's a good case to you that helps tie history to the present, some of the cases we know about that happened somewhat recently? I mean, I suppose it's a lame answer, but the Lake and Heath, because when I did that deep dive with David Clark and actually got to hear the testimony from some of the people that were there,
00:51:31
Speaker
that just I mean there's only so far you can go with documents and it's quite a long way it's a great resource but to hear corroborative you know voices of people that were there yeah that's just incredible it shakes you you know like when it's sorry go on I was just gonna say yeah once you hear their testimony and you hear them actually tell about it talk about it like
00:51:58
Speaker
Um, if they're lying, they would be like in movies making millions and millions of dollars. These people are, would be such good actors. It's unbelievable. Cause you can feel the emotion in them, you know, you can hear it, you know, and then there's like on my website, if you go to my website, uh, witnesses.com.
00:52:21
Speaker
You go to research tools. There's one that's audio testimony that takes you to the archives. And there's all sorts of recordings of people giving their testimony. Pilots, citizens, all sorts of people. And sure, you'll always run into some people that it's like, I don't know about you, sir. But there's so many, the majority are giving an honest account of what happened.
00:52:48
Speaker
And even Sergeant Moody, who spent most of his time researching these UFOs for Blue Book in the Air Force, when he retired, an article came out in the paper where he flat out said that 90% of these objects are reported by sincere, good people. That's 90% of whatever 12,000 reports. Yeah, that's insane. That's a lot of honest, sincere reports. And you know what they say, it only takes one.
00:53:18
Speaker
It only takes one of those, you know, to be something really bizarre. They could shake everything up a bit, you know? Absolutely. I've got a really good question here from your name. Sean, you've read so many documents. Have you ever read a document and figured out halfway in that you've already read it? Um,
00:53:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, definitely. I'm starting to get to the point where my research puts me in the same place again. But it doesn't happen very often. And that's kind of why I still do it, right? Because I'm always put into a different spot where I'm like, I had no idea. I had no idea. Wow, this is incredible.
00:54:06
Speaker
The thing is, it's a never-ending thing. You can always find something new and something exciting almost, you know? And there's so many ways to go about it. Like Ryan Graves' testimony in this article I read, I posted on Twitter yesterday about like a child's top, like a child's spinning top, you know? So I go to the archives and I'm like,
00:54:24
Speaker
Let me check this out. I'm going to look for other accounts where it talks about a spinning top or like a child's top. And lo and behold, there's many accounts like that. And that's the kind of stuff that can bridge you from then to now. It's like, what are the chances that people are still seeing something that looks like a spinning child's top? Come on.
00:54:46
Speaker
That's not like just a circle or something. That's a specific image and phrase to use. What are the chances? Pretty incredible. Absolutely. Definitely. Well, mate, thank you so much for jumping on with me. We should do this more often, find more cases and dig into the history because it's been a while since I've done it.
00:55:12
Speaker
on a grand scale and I keep finding myself these days now slipping back into it. So, you know, it'd be great to do it with yourself.
00:55:19
Speaker
Yeah, I would love that, man. And you're always welcome to come on my show more often too, you know? Thank you. The thing about like research and, you know, I think at least this is how I get sometimes is where I feel the pressure to have like a guest in stuff all the time, like a guest, and then you run out of guests. I'm like, what am I supposed to do? That's the cool point about having friends and doing research. Like we can just talk to each other, dude. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, the conversation.
00:55:49
Speaker
Well, I get that. It's not what I'm doing, though. I actually genuinely wanted you on as a guest. And a friend, of course, that helps. This wasn't my opinion.
00:56:00
Speaker
I have a, I have a guest tomorrow as well. So it's not like I needed it. I really wanted to jump into some, some older cases. It's been been on my mind so much. So I think it's important to talk to each other, you know, and I really enjoy it every time. And I always learn something new from talking to you. So thank you, man. I think this goes for everybody. A lot of the people on Twitter as well as you may have opinions on that, that are completely different amongst everybody, but going and talking to people that are involved in something that you're talking about may actually help.
00:56:31
Speaker
in some way. I feel it always helps to talk to the people that are involved in cases, no matter whether they were witnesses or military or whatever, just talk to them. It can always open a new door or shine a new light on the part of the case that may change your mind somewhere along the way. So reach out to people, talk. It's really important and it goes a long way. So that's my little piece of advice.
00:56:57
Speaker
Completely agree, man. I look up to you, for sure. And I'm proud to say you're my friend and watching you do all the stuff you do out there. So I can't wait to continue to watch more episodes of the show that you're doing out in Columbia. Oh, yeah. Thanks, man. Because that's been really good so far. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks to you. Thanks to everybody that's watched and supported that show. We've had a lot of positive feedback. Awesome.
00:57:26
Speaker
On that note, thank you to everybody in the live chat for a great conversation. I'm sorry if I didn't get to all your questions. I'm going to be back tomorrow. So straight after today, back tomorrow with Katie Holland. We're going to be going over the NDAA, the IAA, and all kind of government-related aspects of the phenomenon. So yeah, come and join in, everyone. But for now, guys, take care, and I will see you then. Bye-bye.