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The Rebelliously Conventional Clea Carlier
238 Plays7 months ago
Another brick in the wall... "brick” meaning a guest, and “wall” meaning our show. One more oral history for the music—>clothing pipeline. Attorney-in-training, guitarist, wit, our next guest is THE Perfect Gentleman…but not precisely. Clea Carlier on her first suit, Pink Floyd, her “deep, deep” love of music, accents and language, learning from YouTube, how things should fit, and more.
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Transcript
Introduction to Apocalypse Duds
00:00:00
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in. I am your host Connor Nunez, one of your hosts. I've done this many times. And I am the co-host Matt Smith. Welcome to Apocalypse Duds. We have a very good show, a very, I would say, entertaining show coming up for you. It's been long in the works. We talked about
00:00:26
Speaker
Jeez, we talked about a lot of stuff. We talked about how to find clothes that fit and why that's important and have sort of, we talked about language acquisition. We talked about pronouncing words in French, which is not always easy.
Meet Kalia: The Talented Musician
00:00:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And yeah, Kalia was a great guest. She's a musician based in,
00:00:54
Speaker
uh... france and old on uh... i've made a reference to midnight in paris uh... the now disgraced uh... director would be alan's movie and the only reason i'd knew anything about my side uh... cuz i have shit taste movies uh... yes it is it's a good it's a good it's a rock i'm a sucker for rock
00:01:24
Speaker
But yeah, we had a good chat and Cleo was very gracious with our stupid ass questions. And yeah, no, I'm just kidding, just kidding. It was fun. It was a good time. I was fangirling extremely hard, yeah. Connor was fangirling. It was a fun show. Yeah, yeah, very fun. But when you hear her talk, you'll be like, oh yeah, no, I know what you're saying. She just is awesome. So yeah, she's a rad fucking person and yeah.
00:01:54
Speaker
had a lot of good thoughts. We're honored to have her on the show. Honored to have her on the show. And if you like guitar or guitar music or you're a gear nerd, this is definitely one for you too. But yeah, thanks everyone for tuning in. Here is our chats with Cleo.
00:02:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode of Apocalypse Duds. I'm one host, Connor Nunez. And I am Matt Smith. And we are here with a very special guest, a guest who needs all of our guests. See, we say they need no introduction and then we do it anyway. But we're going to do it in a little bit of a different fashion today.
00:02:47
Speaker
Clea, good afternoon, good evening. How are you? So happy to see you there. Everyone, we're all wearing baseball hats. You don't know that, but we are. Good evening, Connor. Good evening, Matt. How are you guys? Good evening. Good evening. What time is it in your part of the world right now? It is 8 PM. 8 PM. OK, so five hours ahead, basically. Absolutely. From us East Coasters. Yeah.
00:03:18
Speaker
How has the day been? Obviously, you're you're doing a nightcap interview with us.
Exploring French Language and Meals
00:03:24
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, the day's been. Actually, quite ordinary. I had lunch with friends. Really, I just had lunch with friends and then I would get it. It was it was at university, so we don't really have a choice, but I had. Oh, that's how it is in a socialist country.
00:03:44
Speaker
I don't know how it's cool, but we had like beef. I think we had like a beef piece, if I can call it that. Beef piece. Roasted beef piece and what do they call them? French fries. Steak. Steak. Very good. You guys really do eat better over there, don't you? Maybe, maybe we do. Yeah.
00:04:10
Speaker
They're trying to get us to eat bugs at our universities. So I was going to ask you, because I would fuck it up, potentially, how do you pronounce your name? How do you introduce yourself? So my name is actually clear. It's with an A sound. And an R sound. So it's clear, that diphthong. Yeah. So did I not say that?
00:04:39
Speaker
So you said clear, because obviously, but obviously. Oh, so it's very subtle. It's very subtle, but it's actually. But I like that. Well, you might like it, but you're the only one, the only American at least that pronounces my name this way. Oh, wow. Well, that is a rare honor. Um, so I was going to say something also that I think is pertinent to this.
00:05:07
Speaker
I have been pronouncing this French word blousin. Blousin, absolutely. And I think I humiliated myself in front of you months ago by telling you this fact. I think that there are plenty of words in French, which it would be funny to an American to pronounce at all. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:05:32
Speaker
Uh, and then, yeah, well, for blousin, for starters, that would actually be blousin. Which doesn't sound anything like how you say it. No, no. But it's blousin. I was equally embarrassed secondhand for Connor when he told me he had been pronouncing it that way for a decade. And I was like- Yeah, and I have no, I don't know any French people.
00:05:58
Speaker
Well, now you do. Actually, that's it. Could I have learned to pronounce the word? No, I'm an American. You could have been in contact with French people. Don't you know... Well, that's all I am. Have you never talked with Les Troilables? Didn't you do, like... Yeah, we did. And we made fun of him for being French, too. Exactly. We're not making fun of him. That was a lie. We're just gently ribbing.
00:06:25
Speaker
Okay, yeah, we have a don't we have a historic rivalry. And to get into kind of a second point, like, I asked you earlier if you remembered learning English because I think that's so interesting because I think almost all Americans can't really remember it. It just like is
00:06:48
Speaker
in your brain. So I wanted to ask you if you had any thoughts about that. I mean, you speak more than one language, which itself is like an insane accomplishment, achievement even. It's quite normal in Europe. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I also wanted to say that like,
00:07:12
Speaker
Yeah. Fuck, I didn't count that right. Don't be scared of peanuts in my name. Yeah, I am scared. I also have like a little bit of a southern drawl. And my voice is not shot right now. We do love a southern drawl. If I did not know you were from France, I would just hearing you assume that you were from the UK. Like, it's a very interesting that I feel like along with the language, you also picked up like a dialect of your own.
00:07:41
Speaker
I did, that's mostly because I think most of our teachers in France had been educated in the UK and when I wanted to learn
00:07:55
Speaker
the stuff that I had available, the resources that I had available were actually English people. So that's how it happened. So that's the first dialect. And well, it's not really a dialect, rather an accent. I'm just a fan of accents. I'm an accent nerd. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool. It's like,
00:08:16
Speaker
I don't know all of that stuff. And we in here, I'm not to interrupt you. I mean, we just have limited exposure to accents in America. Like there is variation, but it's subtle for the most part.
00:08:28
Speaker
Yeah, well, I'm not I'm not very familiar with I know that that different accents in America I tried once you sort of listen to all of them, but I do have an American Accent like impression like everyone I met in Europe was happy to give me their impression of what an American sounds like Well, I can try for a few minutes for a few minutes for a few minutes that is a cheat that is that is a commitment to the bit I
00:08:55
Speaker
If you want as long as you, as long as you feel like it, uh, yeah, I would be very happy to hear your American accent. I'll just be two, two different versions of myself tonight. Okay. Yeah. Sounds solid. Uh, so, um, where are you from and where do you live now?
Kalia's French Roots and Education
00:09:15
Speaker
So I'm actually from a little city called Santee Tien.
00:09:20
Speaker
in the south. It's not really the south, because people from the south of France wouldn't say that it's in the south, but it's kind of in the south of France. And I currently live in Lyon, which is the third city of France, even though we do like to say that we're the second competing with Marseille. Which is where L'Astrolab is from. Absolutely. Absolutely. I remember that he's from Marseille as well.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, but we do compete about that because we say that our city is prettier. You what do you think about what do you think about Marseille because Marseille he described in like kind of a rough and tumble like working class kind of. Well, obviously, which is awesome. Well, yeah, well, obviously, I don't want to say things about a city that you don't really know, but that's sort of the idea that most French people say is that it's really a working class. You've got a lot of
00:10:19
Speaker
people that are quite, how could I say, it's not really extravagant brother, vulgar people. Swarthy. Swarthy. Swarthy. I didn't know that word. Yeah, it's like, I think
00:10:39
Speaker
It means, well, so it means dark skinned. It means other things. OK. Like, I don't know, sailors, I feel, are associated with that one. I associate it with with the pirates, like the classical type of pirate, like swashbuckling. I don't know if I would associate it with that. It's very sort of a sea nave. I would call it a kind of navy.
00:11:09
Speaker
lexicon I wouldn't quite say that about Marseille it's rather well it's sunny obviously but we mostly associate it with a lot there's there are a lot of drug problems over there right so most of the time we think about that but it's also very pretty very beautiful city to to just go and spend it to vacation and if I may say yeah there's some some like art tie-ins to it as well I feel like
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, like like there there are touristy like art art, you know things related to yes Yeah, yeah, that's all I know about it from a really bad movie. So What is the movie You can't mention movie and then not out yourself at the movie fuck I'm blanking on the name. It's a it's a
00:12:16
Speaker
Oh boy, yeah. Did they go to Marseille in that movie? Yeah, yeah. I don't know if it's set there. I don't remember the city where it is set, but they go, yes, in a part of the movie. I mean, it's not a bad movie, but it is Woody Allen. I didn't think it was a bad movie either. Woody Allen is a creep. Yeah, he's a creep and I love rom-coms.
00:12:31
Speaker
Man, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
00:12:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's one of one of Matt's many secrets is the rom com. Yeah, rom com. Yeah. Yeah. I admittedly have awful taste in most movies and TV, but I like what I like. So, you know, if it's your comfort drop, if it's your comfort drawer, then it's.
00:13:04
Speaker
It's fine. Yeah. It just is a thing, you know, it's just as there's no, uh, I'm not shaming you about it. I just think like it is a funny thing that you, uh, with the hardcore band are also around kind of busiest. Uh, yeah. It's like a real juxtaposition. I caught a bunch of shit on a tour because, uh, I think while we were on tour or maybe like the night before we left, I went to CPS, I love you, which remains a phenomenal fucking,
00:13:34
Speaker
movie in my opinion but uh yeah i i caught a lot of shit for that on on that particular tour some of them are bad some of them are good there's a lot of really terrible ones so i i did not mean to go on a fucking rom-com digression you don't want it you don't want to defend your defend your love i just yeah i'm not talking to the right audience for this so
00:14:01
Speaker
You're talking to our audience. Yes. Hello, audience. That was a tangent. Sorry. So we talked about your geographic origin and where you are now.
00:14:29
Speaker
Going to the Instagram, do you describe yourself, which I think is great, rebelliously conventional. I do say that. I think that that
00:14:48
Speaker
I don't know. It says a lot. It says a lot about you. So I was wondering what your thinking was like. So I guess it's coming up with that as a description. Yeah, absolutely. Well, rebellious and conventional because how can I say because my friends often tell me or have told me in the past that in another life I would have been a perfect gentleman. And that's how my friends describe me most of the time.
00:15:19
Speaker
And because I am that much conventional, but rebelliously because obviously I'm a woman, which makes it all the more interesting. You are. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:15:35
Speaker
In our planning for this episode, we were trying to be respectful of whatever the fuck. We were like, how do we ask these questions in a way that is not offensive? But you just took the thing and made it like, oh, this is part of the whole deal. So thank you for that. No problem.
00:16:05
Speaker
And what I think about your dressing, it's like subversive. Oh, you think so? I do think so. And I think that that is amazing because it's like you do
00:16:22
Speaker
Like on a technical basis, you outdo these other people. And it's meticulous and it's like practiced and it's methodical. Yeah, it just is fucking awesome. So yeah, I mean, I'm happy. I'm happy to know you to see whatever whatever is in store.
00:16:45
Speaker
Yeah, well, thank you very much for that. But I do. It really comes from pure passion, pure nerdiness. It really just came from that. The nerds are the best. Nerds are the best. Yeah, you just love it. I just and it's obvious you just love it. It's like, do you I mean, so I guess you do think of it in a rebellious way.
00:17:15
Speaker
Do I think of it in a rebellious way? I don't know. I just know that it is rebellious to the world. But, well, actually it's a good question because I have never thought about this. Do I think I am a rebel whenever I...
00:17:33
Speaker
You know, I dress up in the morning and go out into the world. No, I just think that I'm my own person, really. You're being your authentic self. I'm just living in my own thing, which happens to be that. But I don't do it just to go against the flow. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:54
Speaker
And I'm not trying to imply that because that is obnoxious, right?
Kalia's Fashion Journey Begins
00:18:00
Speaker
And I do think that that because it is not you making a conscious effort, that it makes it that much more pure and fucking cool. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I just I just never wanted the thing I was really scared about was to make it all
00:18:20
Speaker
sort of political or everything you know i didn't i never wanted that because really it comes from pure passion for the cloth yeah and that's what's so cool about it that's great and that's so only thing and how did you get into like taylor clothing or ivy style i mean i don't think that i wouldn't consider your your vibe strictly ivy but you know where did that go
00:18:43
Speaker
It's like, even more traditional than Ivy, I think. Yeah, it's quite traditional, actually. It all started because of a pair of trousers that was actually very ill-fitting, if I remember correctly. But when I was a teenager, my mother had bought me this pair of trousers, very ill-fitting, but I loved it. And it was the first pair of trousers that I had that had, how do you say that? I forgot my word. It had pleats.
00:19:12
Speaker
Yeah, it had pleats. Yeah. And that is the that is the right word. So that's it. It had pleats and it was the first time it was ill fitting and it was too short, but I liked it. And I just terribly back then because I was actually trying to try and find out what I liked and what works together. And so as time went by, my mother also bought me a burgundy suit from Burton. I don't know if you know Burton, the brand.
00:19:39
Speaker
I don't like the snowboard company. I thought they were like a conglomerate. I thought that they like did snowboarding stuff and they do also other clothes, but I don't know. Perhaps, but I only know Bert in the clothing brand, but she did buy me that.
00:20:00
Speaker
also very ill-fitting burgundy suit. And when I looked at myself in that suit, I could see not only me, but the potential of who I could be. And so that's what sort of triggered a love for these clothes. And at first, obviously, I was shit at it. I didn't know anything. And well, I educated myself mostly through YouTube channels, because that's how it happens nowadays. That's the magic of nowadays.
00:20:29
Speaker
Here we are. I will shit on a lot of internet things, but I came up in the forum era and style forums, super future, super denim, that kind of shit. It taught so much to the people that actually wanted to learn. I'm like, fucking, get your education however you can.
00:21:00
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. I stand by that. And I assume the resources nowadays. Yeah, totally. I mean, it's the same thing, you know, like with like I, I consider music and clothing like my two biggest passions to be very synonymous with one like each other. And, you know, it's it's got a certain vibe. We talk about that a lot on the show, but
00:21:26
Speaker
You know, streaming culture as bad as it sucks, you know, for a musician or for someone that's into music, like the ability and the accessibility to find new shit that, you know, will change who you are as a person like clothing does. And this nerdiness that we all possess, like, it
00:21:49
Speaker
There's ways that aren't having to go to a record store and buy a CD. You can find so much new stuff now and just get so much information that it's amazing. Definitely. Most definitely. You don't have to have it, and also it takes up less space. Yeah, this is true. The amount of CDs that were in the apartment growing up of jazz stuff, because my father is a jazz nerd.
00:22:21
Speaker
So yeah, that's less space. This is kind of like an offshoot of that, but did you ever find yourself like, before you found like Taylor clothing and whatnot, or maybe even were interested in style, like, did you ever feel drawn to how cool a bunch of these dudes and women looked? Now, actually, I know I had never looked at that before. Obviously, I, how can I say that?
00:22:52
Speaker
I obviously saw pictures and also tailoring through my father who wore a lot of suits back then, but I never actually thought about looking at these pictures and finding them cool. This is a very recent thing. This has only happened yet. It's been very recent. What did you, what kind of stuff were you wearing?
00:23:20
Speaker
I guess earlier, like at the... Before that, before it all started. Yeah, because like, if you thought it was cool, if you thought the jazz was cool, and you figured, okay, the people making the jazz are cool. Yeah.
00:23:40
Speaker
That's not really how it happened in my mind. Jazz had always been in my life and childhood through my father, obviously. But I wasn't looking at the people in jazz. But to answer your question, how was I dressing before? I'd say like a regular teenager. I was always a tomboy. I was always a tomboy from the very first day I set foot in primary school.
00:24:07
Speaker
So it was just like shit, actually, when I think about it. Because my philosophy was it has to be practical and I don't care whether it's pretty or not. So that was really my thing back in the day. So you just wore coveralls? Also, can I ask, I don't want to assume anything, but what generation are you? What are the years that we're talking about?
00:24:37
Speaker
I'm 22, so I was born in 2001. Gotcha, okay. Whoa! Whoa! So yeah, we're talking about that. I'm not a math person, and I hadn't made that calculation.
00:24:54
Speaker
No, I had not made that calculation. That's like, wow. You look wise beyond your years as far as your dressing goes. Yeah, the way that you speak too is just like, yeah, you could be like 500 years old. We're talking about like the late aughts in D sleeves and then like American apparel, fucking everything.
00:25:18
Speaker
uh yeah okay so that gives me context for what you're for what you're saying about you know that that point in your life dressing up yeah yeah absolutely absolutely no it was but it was very interesting still i'd say that um i'd say that i sort of evolved from a tomboy to a grandfather that's yeah yeah that's really the thing
00:25:48
Speaker
writing it down. Yeah, seriously. Quoting me. That will be a good quote. Yeah, no, you gotta get the quotes on the show. You love you. You wouldn't be the first person to say that. I've got friends that have so many quotes of me from, you know, and they go back three years. What the fuck? Did you say something earlier? You said something earlier that was just like... I don't remember.
00:26:15
Speaker
I don't remember either because there's a million fucking things. Absolutely. That's why I have friends that just write down what I say. Nice. We dig up all those people. We here. Yeah. Are taking notes. So you are in law school. I know if you feel like describing very briefly the law school because like law school in America is pretty known.
Becoming a Lawyer in France
00:26:43
Speaker
You know, it takes three years. It really sucks ass, but you do it because you're going to make big bucks. Yes. So I don't know what the, it seems, it seems at least slightly different in France. Does it take only three years or do you do a, like basically included is an internship of some kind? Within the three years. Or outside of it. Yeah. Okay.
00:27:12
Speaker
But it's basically a three-year commitment. And you have no undergrad degree before that? There is an undergrad degree. You have to get your undergrad degree, which takes approximately four years, depending on how much screwing around you do. Makes more sense. So it's the undergrad degree with the law degree stacked on top of it, basically. Okay, got it. No, in France, actually, when you enroll into university at 17, 18, you get into
00:27:42
Speaker
a law faculty right away. So you start studying law at the very first, but you don't, sorry, you don't do undergrad. And it's, we have a bachelor, that's three years, then we've got a master's, that's two years. And then if you actually want to become a lawyer, which is not the case for most people, because you can do so many things after law school, but if you actually want to become a lawyer, you have to pass the bar.
00:28:11
Speaker
And then it's three additional years. What? That's, that's it. So that's what Lastrelab did. Yes. Yes. Most likely. So what is that? Like approximately, approximately 10 years? I'd say rather not 10. That's five plus eight, eight, eight, eight years. Yeah. To become a lawyer, obviously you don't have to become a lawyer to practice law.
00:28:41
Speaker
Yeah. Is it like a separate thing, like the barrister that exists in the UK? Well, I'm not quite familiar. Actually, in spite of my accent, I'm not quite familiar with the UK system. So I don't know. Well, you can't know literally everything, can you?
00:29:01
Speaker
Well, I could if I read more often, but I don't. Yeah, in a few years. In a few years, don't worry, I'll know everything by then. So I don't have a point of reference with the UK system. All I know is, honestly, after five years, once you've completed your master's, you can practice law in businesses, but just not as a lawyer.
00:29:28
Speaker
Interesting. So in order to be a lawyer, the word in French is jurist, which has this Latin root of jurist, which is the law. But they just don't have the title of lawyer and they cannot wear, because I don't know if you know that in France, lawyers wear a robe.
00:29:53
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And they cannot do that. So, dude, are you going to wear a robe? I might if I actually pass the. If I survive. I get the fuck out of here. So what is going to. So do you have a say over the robe or you just get the robe? Oh, no, you have a say. You have it made by a tailor. It's. Oh, you have a say. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Maybe. Maybe.
00:30:21
Speaker
Can they make a robe out of Hardy Menace-Fresco? Because that sounds wonderful. I wish. I don't know. I don't know that for sure. I would have to check into the specs of how- What if you have to get it and it's some shit like melt in the wall and you have to wear it in the middle of summer and you're like, motherfuckers, I hate this. That's what I'm saying.
00:30:47
Speaker
Yeah, do you have a summer robe and a winter robe? Like, I actually don't know because actually you only wear on this one. Yeah, yeah. Not to mention, like, this may be, you know, just a stereotype that I'm perpetuating. But not to mention, like, is it Europe? Isn't Europe kind of like famous for not really having air conditioning? Like in the way that America does?
00:31:12
Speaker
Yes, yes, definitely. Well, you literally exaggerate with air conditioning. I will. I stand by this. I stand by this. We have fans here.
00:31:23
Speaker
Okay. Fans. Yeah. Yeah. I stayed in, uh, in a Florence, like Airbnb when I went to Pitti and it was one of the hottest rooms I have ever slept in in my life. Cause there was no, like nothing AC. Yeah. So like I said, I didn't mean to perpetuate the stereotype, but I can imagine a robe in, in even like the most mild of summer days, not being that enjoyable.
00:31:51
Speaker
Well, you have to make do, but at the end of the day, you only wear your robe inside a court, a courthouse. So technically courthouses. Well, I don't know, actually, I'd have to see. So like most so like most attorneys in the U.S. like are suited to go to court. Indeed. So you are like wearing your robe to
00:32:17
Speaker
practice law, to do the courtroom examinations. It's only for the lawyers who plead. It's only for the lawyers who plead in court, right? So when you're a lawyer, for example, we talked about Les Trellab, right? When he's at the office, he's not going to wear a robe because he's not pleading.
00:32:39
Speaker
I'd say it's really only- I would love to know what his lab, what his robe choices are. We'll have to get him on again. Because he's got like, he's going to have one stitch together of like old Brooks Brothers, OCBDs, you know? Well, that would be, that would be wild. I'm not, I'm not quite sure what the bow would allow you to do.
00:33:01
Speaker
Yeah, we did. We disbarred. It's the fun room! Right, exactly. But it's a piece of clothing that has got, like, it carries a lot of tradition. There are a lot of rules around it.
00:33:16
Speaker
A lot of traditions around it, you can't really just wear it like that. You don't have the right to wear it to anything. You can't even wear it outside unless you are demonstrating, which the French do a lot, or there's a funeral. Okay. That would be kind of a flex to wear a robe to a protest. Well, they do that. Lawyers, when they protest, they have the right to wear their robe.
00:33:47
Speaker
That's cool. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing. We talked about tradition. I think of this in sort of that way. The Fitbit is a tradition. The Fitbit is like the currency of our community in a way. It's like a way to vouch for yourself, to evaluate other people.
00:34:15
Speaker
Uh, and so you, if you, if you scroll your Instagram, if you go to the beginning, you see like a trajectory of like, not like my shit is even good, but like even on mine, you can see like, well right here, he figured out like to stop making that fucking face.
00:34:36
Speaker
you know, it went on. So I wanted to ask you just generally like what your so we I assume your location scouting, right? You see a place and you're like, oh, that door would be a great fit pic. So you like write it down in a little book. So actually, no, the let me let me let me let me say
00:35:00
Speaker
Let me tell the story, but I have to give credit to, well, Matilda, that, well, Connor, you- Shut up, Matilda. Absolutely. Matt, you might not know her yet. So she's a person who takes the pictures. Um, and she's the one who- Oh! I'm a photographer! That explains it. Well, give my compliments to the chef. I mean- Definitely. She'll be glad to hear that. Uh, but, uh, she is, uh, well, if you don't know who she is, she's the woman in the latest picture I posted.
00:35:28
Speaker
and she's the one who scouts for those locations. She's the one who scolds me into posing because I'm very awkward.
00:35:37
Speaker
in public when it comes to posing, because they feel stupid. Posing sucks. Yeah. Posing sucks. Yeah, it's terrible. Definitely. You just look, you just feel stupid standing there, having to make faces. It's a real job, actually. So she's the one who does all that. She's the one who took the account. You know, before I just had these Fitpigs I was trying to do at home, and when you see me in big angles in different spaces, it's all her.
Fashion Community in Lyon
00:36:06
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Well, so about one question about the because we have a later question here about the headless fit pics, you know, what? So I guess there wasn't a there wasn't like a decision. It was just like we can do the pictures in a better way now. Like, let's do them in a better way. She just told me.
00:36:35
Speaker
You've got potential. I have to take pictures for you because the way you take your pictures is just not. Wow. Yes. Yeah. Sometimes you need some tough love from your friends. Yes. Absolutely. I need someone to interview on my behalf. I tried my fucking best you asshole. I'm just kidding. Yeah. And look at me now. Look at me now. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm wearing two. I'm wearing a denim shirt and denim pants.
00:37:07
Speaker
Yeah, what jacket are you wearing, Cleo? Yeah. Oh, right now. Yeah, it's cool. Thank you. It's actually from Uniqlo, I think. Oh, shit. Okay. We should get fucking sponsored by Uniqlo. I mean, we talk about them every episode. Yeah, pretty much. It looks like it has rag on sleeves.
00:37:33
Speaker
It does. It's a workers jacket, you know, with the little pocket here and the two pockets on the sides. I've got this and I have Ralph Lauren Chinos today. Do you know what they are? Are they the Andrew? I do not know what they are. I found them. That's okay. That's okay. I don't think it's marked on all of them.
00:37:59
Speaker
I do not know. Yeah, I didn't check. I just wanted to. I wanted Chinos back then. I found that I was happy. You can't go wrong. Yeah, it's a really cool jacket. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You know, just out of curiosity,
00:38:19
Speaker
Um, the social circles that you run in, obviously Matilda seems awesome and, and gets it. Um, but are you one of the only people that are wearing tailoring? Like what's, do you stand out or, or is it just kind of a mix of like rad? Look at people. That's it.
00:38:41
Speaker
Obviously I'm in law school, so in law school you have most people, obviously most students stress normally if we can call normal or should I say average, which is not a critique, average is just
00:38:55
Speaker
a word, but then we also that there are always certain people in law school that wear suits. But the difference with me and I've got a good friend as well, who wears suits beautifully in school. And I met him this year, I saw him, he was wearing a beautiful chambray suit. And I talked to him that we became great friends. And, and you can see that he's very passionate about about it as well. But sometimes the guys in law school wear suits.
00:39:24
Speaker
because they are in law school, not because they're interested in the craft. So that's sort of a bummer. But for the rest, when it's outside of school, I do have friends that obviously are equally interested in the craft, in the sartorial thing, as we say.
00:39:47
Speaker
And, uh, actually we have, um, we're trying to, to organize a party. Sorry for the little, but yeah, we're trying to organize a party to sort of, um, how could I say federate, um, gather all of these people in Lyon, because I know that there are many people in Lyon that are interested in, in this sort of craft, but most of the stuff happens in Paris.
00:40:16
Speaker
And yeah, we saw there was a gap sort of here and we decided to just jump in it. Yeah, I wanted to ask, like, we touched on this a little bit with Last Relab, like, since Paris is the kind of, I mean, there are a lot of fashion capitals, right? But like, Paris is one of a sort. So,
00:40:43
Speaker
that's really cool that you're trying to elevate your community and kind of congeal your community around the thing that you guys all care about. So that's awesome. If you've got promo stuff for that, I mean, if you guys have the Instagram or whatever.
00:41:04
Speaker
It's really, it's all happening on my Instagram, so you'll see the latest posts were about that. And yeah, so we've got invites. We're halfway full, which I'm very happy about. We've still got two weeks before the party happens, so I'm sure we'll be full by then. And I'm really looking forward to it.
00:41:28
Speaker
Because there are so many people who are so passionate about this and cannot gather because nobody is taking the initiative to actually do it often. And that's sad. Yeah. Well, Lucky's, there's you. Yeah, this is awesome. Just to kind of like when I was born.
00:41:50
Speaker
To kind of piggyback off that, are there are there other women that you're friends with that are into like, wearing shit similar to you? Because I don't know, like, that's always such a cool thing when someone really gets into this, like, definitely gender diversion and pulls it off. True. Gender bending, gender bending. Well,
00:42:17
Speaker
I think I'm one of a kind. I'm kidding. Yeah, of course. I don't know. You kind of are. You are like in the point zero zero one percent. Yeah. You know, like you just you have these character characteristics and you're doing something that is like really out there.
00:42:37
Speaker
sort of, but I don't, obviously I know other women on Instagram. We have, there's women in tailoring. I mostly meant like, I mostly meant in your friend group, like you're talking about. In my friend group, no. Oh, okay. In my friend group, no, no, no. I don't, I don't know anybody else who, any other woman who would be interested in the way I am. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Like you were,
00:43:06
Speaker
What kind? One in a million. It's just really cool. You're out there swimming against the current. Just based on our guests, you and Laura and Zoe should hang out because I don't know.
00:43:26
Speaker
Stace? Stace? Also, I'm trying to remember just off the top of my head, people that wear tailored clothing that are not white, you know, men. That are not white men? Yeah, not totally white, but you know what I mean? Not non-males. Yeah, obviously well, then... It's a pretty white space, I mean... It's definitely a white space. I don't think that anyone could argue
00:43:57
Speaker
otherwise like certainly so it's it doesn't have I guess it doesn't have to be subversive to still be anachronistic yeah you know we're just out of its place we're just all into cool shit and our our lives in this little community that we have are fucking you know our overlap is great
00:44:23
Speaker
No, true, true. And most people are very, very, very nice. Yeah, totally. And very fun. You can tell that really, those are people that love the craft, and they're just interested in anybody else who likes it as well. Yeah, yeah. It's all of us. We're all just weirdos trying to find other weirdos that share our same interests.
00:44:46
Speaker
Exactly. So and well, obviously, the my account is still very small, but I have never encountered any hate or any hell. Yeah, really any. Yeah, disengaging comment. Not yet. So going parking parking back to forum culture. I am so happy that that is not the emo anymore, because I've seen some I've seen some murders on clothing forums. You know what I mean?
00:45:17
Speaker
Yes, I think I've seen some. Yeah, I've seen some screenshots on Derek's account, I think. Oh, yeah. Derek has so many good fucking stories and like talks about this constantly and it never fails to crack me up. There you go. There you go. So,
00:45:47
Speaker
Yeah, I'll talk about it. I'll talk about the clothing folding. Where are you with the clothing folding ironing business? I guess you haven't enacted a fresh iron yet. I have not. No, no, so what I did, and the reason why Connor is saying
Shirt Maintenance and Style
00:46:11
Speaker
that,
00:46:11
Speaker
is because I decided to fold all of my shirts today because I didn't have enough space to hang all of the shirts the button-ups and all of the suits and all of the coats so I'd rather protect the suits and fold away the shirts and have a crease on the shirt
00:46:29
Speaker
Rather than just breaking my suits shoulders, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So when Carter told me this I was my immediate question was like is there not enough closet space and You essentially just confirmed that like I I understand this also I don't give a fuck about wrinkles and shit. So you you Ironing these respect respect. I Think it's yeah, I think it's cool. It's like, uh, it's like a
00:47:00
Speaker
You're breaking out a fresh one and you're ironing it. Like that's tight. Don Draper. Don Draper had the shirts in the dresser and the desk drawer and the madman. There you go. And so he would just. No, absolutely. That's me opening a drawer. I don't, I don't take just one. I will take like three and you know, it will be done, but not everything will be done.
00:47:28
Speaker
I think I don't have enough shirts. No, I actually do. Wait, we never have enough shirts. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's just really, as I said, the ones that really wrinkle a lot, I will take them out and iron them someday. Cause I'm not that organized, but the other ones, the non-iron ones, the Charles Turwitz ones, actually, I don't really iron them. They don't need any ironing to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're coated with formaldehyde, so they don't need ironing. Yeah.
00:47:58
Speaker
uh just out of curiosity of what what sorry about that what no it's fine you can ask oh uh i was just gonna say what is your most worn type of shirt or what do you have the most uh yeah a a blue shirt surely okay yes solid like bangles well actually
00:48:22
Speaker
Stripe. Yes. Well, did you want the exact model or just curious, you know, like pattern, fabric, whatever to me, honestly, Navy. Oh, well, baby blue, white stripes, white stripes. Yes. Or just baby blue is like, I think just a baby blue shirt. So without stripes is the best choice you can have. People often say white shirt, white shirt. I see a lot of reels on Instagram saying, yeah, white shirt, white shirt, white shirts are definitely the most formal.
00:48:54
Speaker
Most fall will definitely get the heat. Yes, you need a white shirt. And now I'm like, I don't even want to wear one of them. It's really boring. You need a white shirt. Tuxedo shirts are beautiful. But even people are starting to wear navy shirts with their tuxedos. And I find that so good when it's well done. Totally. Totally. Yeah, I'm for it.
00:49:16
Speaker
I'm definitely for any non-white shirt variant. My go-to is Blue Oxford or Blue and White University Stripe, and that's basically all in my shirts. There you go. This blue is just better. With the two in it. Blue is the best. I will say it. Yes. It's going to wear white warm. Yeah. I want to say, what's the word?
00:49:48
Speaker
Yeah, there's just not a good variance between white and yellow like that end of this bedroom Exactly. Yeah There are a few good ones, but I think that they don't have a I mean they are good colors They just are not great like shirts. Yeah That's another thing
00:50:15
Speaker
I was saying the word beige. Beige? Well, but I know how to say it, right? Beige. But I just kept saying beige. And I don't know why I was doing that. I don't either. The children around me were amused. Surely because you are American.
00:50:36
Speaker
I mean, I am also American and I am Southern and I say beige with a soft G, not a fucking R.G. You... Beige. It just is like a funny thing to say. We didn't really get into it. But English is a really fucking stupid language. Like, there are so many letters and pronunciations that make zero fucking sense, like G.
00:51:05
Speaker
And beige versus Gary. It's it's the it's the many threads of origin. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, it's fucked up and it's inconsistent because it comes from so many different languages.
Kalia's Passion for Music
00:51:28
Speaker
Yeah. To the extent that that, like, to the extent, does that excuse? Yeah, I was going to say, that doesn't excuse. Pay in, knife and phone and like stuff like that. I have to teach that. Yeah. Like it's worse than having to explain Santa Claus. It's like, what do you mean? We've been talking about the letter K for years. Why?
00:51:58
Speaker
You know, even the kids are fucking confused. Sometimes you don't pronounce it. Sometimes you do pronounce it. Like in the word knife. Yes, absolutely. I do not remember that. But I mean, we've got the same problem in French. We have a lot of silent letters. We're known for that. Yeah. Oh, right. Ordurbs. Yes. Yeah.
00:52:23
Speaker
order, for example, you never, we never pronounce the S's we never pronounce, you know, so it's just, how can I say that? It's, I also find it very interesting when when you can see the history of a language through its spelling. And English is part of that having having its roots in well apart of that there's a bit of French, there's a bit of old is it is it proto German or is it just
00:52:51
Speaker
No, it's not pretty German, but Germanic language. And it's very interesting to see that all of your GH words, you know, the people are scared of all of the through and thorough and throughout. It's just very fun. Yeah, I know that I wouldn't have been able to learn English as a
00:53:15
Speaker
second language like i just you would have it's really not that complicated that's what i try to see to my students because i'm a tutor it's really not that complicated because english the first thing is when you speak french obviously from that point of view or even if you speak spanish actually
00:53:34
Speaker
First of all, you don't need to conjugate the verbs unless it's the third, you know, well, he, she, it, where you need to conjugate it at the present tense. Otherwise, you just don't need to do it. And that's already such, you know, that so much effort that is taken away from you. I don't want to get into this on air, but I
00:54:01
Speaker
took Spanish class from second grade until I graduated from college. I still do not speak Spanish, but that is a mind blowing revelation to me. And maybe, maybe I could be successful with Spanish now that I know that. Cause it's so tedious to fucking conjugate all that shit. Unbelievable. I, I do agree.
00:54:27
Speaker
Especially when you don't, you come from a point of view or a standpoint where you don't conjugate your verbs. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. I really do. But it's really not, it's not that English is actually pretty easy. Interesting. I'm learning Finnish and the world.
00:54:48
Speaker
out of, we got to get Henrik on, uh, who speaks, I think five or six languages, which don't even give me the European shit. If you speak more than three languages, that's like, you're like in a different territory of mental acuity. You're in the, or he's just a language learning nerd, which I would understand. Well, he's a linguist. Well, there, there you go.
00:55:17
Speaker
He just loves languages. Languages are so much fun. I don't know if it's the subjects of it all, but it's just really, really fun when you get into it. I like words also. That's my contribution with my one language, with the one language that I know. Yeah. I have a hard enough time picking up on the variations of the Southern accent that I don't know if learning a second language is in the cards for me.
00:55:46
Speaker
You could. Anybody can learn a second language. Yeah, yeah. Maybe I'll do a lingo in one of these days. Do not do a lingo. It doesn't matter. Yeah, I'm kidding. I have no idea. I'll tell you that. I had like a 400 day streak and I like didn't, or had not really learned anything. In Spanish? Yeah. Yeah. I could pick up on the equals. Yeah.
00:56:10
Speaker
Yeah, like the more that you're around varying languages, the more like, you know, it's more of a conversational, I would assume, like, I don't know, you know, definitely no handful of words, but it's not, but immersion is the way to go. I think immersion is definitely the way to go. Yes, but you don't have to do it. You fake the immersion. Right.
00:56:36
Speaker
So from your Instagram, we have deduced that you play music, guitar I've seen. What's your relationship to that? What do you play? How long? How often? It's a relationship of deep, deep love that I have with music. Hell yes. I started learning the piano when I was five.
00:57:04
Speaker
I think so I was put in piano school. Yes, I was put in piano school and two years after I wanted to quit because I wanted to play guitar because I had we had done a gala as we often do. And the nephew of my of my piano teacher was playing the guitar on that Pink Floyd song. How is it called? We don't need no. Oh, yeah, yeah. Another brick on the wall.
00:57:34
Speaker
Absolutely. Thank you. And so he was playing the guitar on that and I found it so cool. I went to just pick up on the guitar. My parents and my teacher said, no, but just do another year of piano to, to just check if you really want to do that. I really want to do that. So I did the year and then I quit piano. I picked up on guitar. We had a guitar at home. So I just started learning by myself. And at 12, I enrolled in the conservatory.
00:58:03
Speaker
of music and I stayed there. I was in the classical department. I stayed there for one year, then I went to the, how can I call it, current music department where I stayed for five years and then I had my degree and I left. That's awesome. Observatory. Wow. As a guitarist myself, what is your rig?
00:58:31
Speaker
What's a rig? Like your guitar, your amp, effects, if you use them. Oh. Your setup. Yeah, your setup. My setup. It's really shitty, actually. I have a Stratocaster. Yeah. And my amp is real shit, because I didn't buy it. My father did. And he knew nothing about amps. And I don't even know if it's a brand, the thing. It's really shit. Really, really shit. But it does the job.
00:59:02
Speaker
Yeah. It does the job. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have like a, do you have like a dream amp?
00:59:11
Speaker
Definitely. I wouldn't call it a dream amp, but that's the amp I would buy next. And it's one of the Fender amps that we use in the conservatory because it was so good. It was very good. I don't remember the name of the model, unfortunately. It was a good Fender amp. I'd get that. And then at the end, a Marshall one. Obviously. Nice. How long have you been playing Matt?
00:59:39
Speaker
I'm 40. I started playing guitar around 12. I'm a drummer. That's what I started on in middle school and did percussion and things. I'll say I didn't really start playing guitar seriously until I was probably like
01:00:00
Speaker
like 18, 19 or something. So that was the drum major, isn't that correct? I was not the drum major, no. I was like, I was captain of the drum line for two years.
01:00:14
Speaker
but yeah i play guitar sorry which sounds impressive anyway i guess it's just mostly because i was it's hard percussion is hard percussion is really hard yeah but i like i don't i know it's a different thing than playing guitar
01:00:31
Speaker
I'm not really trained. I'm mostly self-taught and play a lot by ear. I know a little bit of theory and things like that. And that's impressive. But yeah, I play guitar like a drummer would, kind of like Dave Grohl. Isn't that great? Yeah. And Matt actually hits it with a drumstick.
01:00:51
Speaker
We want that. We want that. But yeah, I'm, yeah, like I'm in, I'm in a band now for the first time in like 15 years. And, uh, yeah, just kind of kind of taking it. What is the band called, man? It's called extinction age. Yeah. They're really good. You're not plugging them because I'll do it.
01:01:20
Speaker
Really, really, really, really good. Amazing to have seen the whole process. Yeah. But now I think that they are close to release day. So be able to look out for that. The record should be up by the time this podcast comes out. So also from your Instagram post, I think it was one, I don't remember what you were playing.
01:01:48
Speaker
But I was doing some research and I saw that... Radiohead, right? I don't remember what band it was. I know you have quite a few videos of you playing guitar, but you mentioned something about loving musicians wearing tailored clothing while they play.
01:02:09
Speaker
And that really stood out to me because like, you know, it is something that's really cool. And if your clothes fit right, like, I'm in layers every day of life. And so like, it's not that much different. But, you know, do you feel like that, that being that you're a musician, and you're very into tailor clothing, do you kind of feel like a part of that lineage from
01:02:37
Speaker
uh, you know, from back in the day, like the jazz guys and R and B and soul guys and the rockers, like we're in Taylor chip.
01:02:48
Speaker
Actually, no, I don't think I've ever seen myself as that because I'm not trying to impersonate them or Miles Davis or any of these guys. So I actually never thought about it. It really was because I find it cool because it brings together two things of us that can be seen as sometimes opposites. Because obviously, guitar especially or drums or any of the more
01:03:15
Speaker
rock rock and roll jazz sort of instruments and when you do that in in uh pre-scene tailoring i just always find the contrast so luring so luring especially if it's on women but also if it's on man right i just find it so cool because it brings together two worlds that um nowadays don't have much to
01:03:42
Speaker
do with one another as well. Obviously most guitar players are more, how can I say, long-haired, open-shirt sort of guy. So that's what I like about it. It's really cool through the
01:04:01
Speaker
I have always thought about it in a similar way. And no matter what you do, if you're on a stage performing, you're thinking about how you look. And kind of the tradition of Taylor clothing, and even when modern bands have done that, it's always just like, fuck yeah, that's cool. Because you're already putting time and effort into your appearance.
01:04:30
Speaker
And you're going this direction as opposed to like a pair of vans, some cargo shorts and a t-shirt. Absolutely. You want to show that you're dressed for your audience, made an effort, but not even for them. It's really worth for you in the first place. And that's what's cool.
01:04:49
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like a bunch of these bands are, you know, some are bigger bands, especially like some have stylus probably. But, you know, a lot of times if it's not like they're in matching suits, love the hives, don't get me wrong. But, you know, it's like, oh, you guys actually just generally like to look cool.
01:05:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's just it. It's not about making it, you know, like the bands from the 50s where all the guys look, you know, for example, the animals where everybody has got the same suit. It's really not about that. It's really about expressing, not only expressing what you feel through your instrument, but also expressing how you feel through your clothes.
Closing Remarks and Social Media Shoutout
01:05:36
Speaker
And if this happens to be tailoring, I like you even more. Agreed, agreed.
01:05:44
Speaker
Well, shit, this has been a really fun conversation. We always like to give our guests a shout out themselves, their Instagrams, whatever they want to. So how about it? Should I speak now?
01:06:00
Speaker
Yes, you should speak. You should applaud your Instagram because we have such a massive following that it's going to grow your Instagram. And you are going to go from $740,000 or whatever to $90,000. I'll become the next president of, I don't know, Portagello. See, there's a lot of different ways to go with that joke.
01:06:27
Speaker
Exactly. No, no, really. Well, if, if people do like, uh, women in tailoring, well, they can follow this account. Who doesn't, who doesn't exactly. That's the, that's the real problem nowadays. Um, my account is called at classic underscore nonchalance. And, uh, well, I just post, I should post daily. Unfortunately I'm quite, um, what's the word?
01:06:53
Speaker
busy in law school. It's not even busyness in law school. It's because when Matilda says, let's do a photo shoot, I'm like, well, not today. I just keep on complaining. But more stuff will be coming, will come, sorry, very soon, obviously. Awesome. And what is, if Matilda has like a public Instagram, where they do photography? She has a private Instagram, I'm afraid.
01:07:22
Speaker
A private system, I'm afraid. Yes. I was going to say you could plug her. Her also, but... I don't know if she'd like to be plugged. I'm not sure if she has the... Yeah. Well, follow for the work that you guys are pretty good. She is rewarded. Don't worry. I always tell her. Thank her. No worries.
01:07:51
Speaker
Yeah. Great creative relationship that y'all have. Yeah. Which is a nice compliment. It is. Well, yeah. Once again, thank you for listening. Follow us on Instagram, Annapacobstuds.
01:08:15
Speaker
Uh, apocalypse studs at gmail.com. If you have questions, comments, concerns, um, check out the Mad Men series that we did, uh, rate subscribe on your, your platform of choice. Um, I am Matt Smith at Rebels of Rogues. And I'm Connor Nunez at real Connor Nunez. And we will see you next week.
01:08:46
Speaker
Cheerio