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ARGUING ABOUT THE AHSOKA SERIES! (Episode Tier List Ranking)
31 Plays1 year ago
This week on the podcast, Austin, Scotty and special guest Crystal Kyber must come together to form a TIER LIST based on their collective opinion on the AHSOKA Show. No matter if they agree, or violently disagree on an episode, they must compromise and pick one spot.
This is the Wayseekers is a Star Wars podcast, with new episodes every other Friday @ 8:00am CT. Join your hosts Austin SWE and Scotty Holiday SW as they navigate their ways through the Star Wars galaxy.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Ahsoka Series
00:00:03
Speaker
This week on This Is The Wayseekers, we're finally talking about Ahsoka, the good, the bad, and the ugly. That's right, we're doing another tier list on this podcast because we had so much fun with the last one and we thought what better way to talk about all eight episodes of Ahsoka than ranking them on
Meet the Guest: Crystal Kyber
00:00:19
Speaker
a tier list.
00:00:19
Speaker
This week we're joined by special guest Crystal Kyber, and despite all three of our varying opinions on the series, at the end of the day, each episode must end up in one place on the tier list. To do this, that means we must argue and defend our positions, and try not to hate each other at the end of this episode. But at the end of the day, it's Star Wars, and it's all in good fun, so why don't you join us on this very special episode of This Is The Way.
00:00:56
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to This is the Wayseekers. OK, look at us doing an actual proper intro at the beginning. This week on the podcast, we're finally talking about Ahsoka. And when I say finally, I mean, we're talking about it super soon. We're like the first creators on this platform to be talking about Ahsoka. We're right on time, bright and early. It just ended. Here we are. It was just so amazing. We just watched the finale, and we're already talking about it.
00:01:23
Speaker
Yeah, maybe we should have pre-recorded this. So I'm joined with Scotty, my co-host, as always, and we're joined by special guest Crystal Kyber, but on the podcast before second time. How are you doing, Crystal?
00:01:41
Speaker
I'm doing well. I'm so excited to be here. And I hope everyone is ready to listen to us fight for an hour. OK, but to give some background on what we actually think of the show and how we're coming into this, why don't we rank Ahsoka out of 10? So ranking of Ahsoka
Initial Ratings and Thoughts
00:01:59
Speaker
the entire series out of 10, three, two, one, five out of 10. Seven. Three. Oh.
00:02:09
Speaker
Okay, so we got seven, five, and three. So Scottie, seven out of 10, you like it the most. What did you enjoy about Ahsoka? I enjoyed the characters, the way the characters kind of bolded over time in the series. All the doubts that we all had, even me who loved it, we all had doubts about Ahsoka in live action. And we got to see her become more of the Ahsoka that we were used to.
00:02:37
Speaker
It was just a fun series overall. Most of the most, if not all of the castings, I would say were great. I'm honest, funny being a highlight. Natasha Lou Bordezzo was really great as Sabine. Like it was just a really fun series overall. And it gave me that fantasy that I love in Star Wars. OK. OK. I can respect that. I can respect that. Crystal, three out of 10.
00:03:03
Speaker
What's up with that? Yeah. I just had so many issues with the writing, the storytelling overall, the choreography, the acting, the stunt work. I just had so many issues with every aspect
Ahsoka's Transition from Animation to Live-Action
00:03:17
Speaker
of the story that I really dropped it down, which is so unfortunate because I really, really love Ahsoka.
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I think I think that's the thing is we're all coming into this from a place of like years of love for the character. And I think that that manifests in varying ways into our opinion as the person that's kind of in the middle right in the middle of five out of 10. I think that a soca like on its own is fine. It's like whatever it exists on its own fine. But the thing is, it doesn't exist on its own. It kind of jams its way into like
00:03:52
Speaker
four other TV shows and kind of ruins those. And I'm a huge fan of the animation and Ahsoka's obviously from animation, not a huge fan of it being in live action. I feel like there's so many things that go against Ahsoka because it was in live action that make me go, why wasn't it just in animation? And so for that,
00:04:13
Speaker
I can't give it any higher than a five out of 10. Like, yeah, sure, I enjoyed myself. I had a fun time. Anakin Skywalker was on screen like, thank you Dave Filoni for the ninth time. But let's get into this ranking because I think it's going to be a little fun. We got all eight episodes up here. We're going to go through all of them. And the catch is we have to put it in one place and we have to all three agree on it.
Episode One: Master and Apprentice
00:04:40
Speaker
that it should go in that spot in our collective tier lists. So true. And unlike last week, it's not just me and you, Austin. Yeah. Crystal's going to have to give her opinion to Crystal, where we all have to disagree. So I won't be able to sway Austin as easily this time around.
00:04:57
Speaker
Yes. Yes. And also, I was a little bit of a pushover last week, I feel like. And so I'm not going to be doing that. I'm going to stand my ground and see what Scotty feels about that. Okay. You both were being a little too respectful. Right. Right. No more of them. I mean, you want disrespect. I'll give you disrespect, bitch. Like, let's go. Oh, wait.
00:05:24
Speaker
Okay, well, yeah, this is this is my podcast, so no being bullied on my podcast. Okay. Part one, master and apprentice directed by Dave Filoni started off the whole thing. We got the introduction of Ahsoka. We got the introduction of Harrison Dula, Sabine Wren, Baelin Skoll, Shin Hadi,
00:05:46
Speaker
Started off in the beginning with a very, very impactful beginning of Balan's skull and Shinhari taking down an entire rebel cruiser. Like, OK. Period. You had me scared in the first 10 seconds. So I definitely loved that setup. But I feel like for me, this episode has a lot of the faults of the series are in this episode. I feel like a lot of the dialogue
00:06:14
Speaker
It's very clunky. There's a lot of boring scenes. Like, why are we spending five entire minutes of Ahsoka opening up this puzzle? And we have no context for what it is. No silence. No characters. Like, the music's cool. The visuals are kind of bland. I didn't really, I didn't really enjoy. I feel like there was a lot of moments like that that I didn't really enjoy. But enough of me blabbing. What'd you guys think of episode one, the introduction to this entire thing?
00:06:43
Speaker
I do want to mention that you mentioned it was the introduction. Well, not only was it the introduction of the series, but it gave us our introduction to a lot of these characters, some of these characters for the first time in live action. And I do agree. We knew who Ahsoka was, but I didn't feel like I jumped into an Ahsoka story with this intro.
00:07:06
Speaker
I think what it did the best was introduce Baelin and Shin because I think their introduction was amazing. It was almost like a parallel to the Vader hallway scene that everybody talks about. That's what people were saying when the trailer came out and it gave me kind of everything I needed there.
00:07:27
Speaker
But yeah, it wasn't necessarily my favorite introduction either. Plus the fact that we're kind of left on a cliffhanger with, you know, Sabine going up against Shin. And we know Sabine ain't gonna die in the first episode. So it was like, is it really a cliffhanger?
00:07:45
Speaker
Right. Yeah, I like that lightsaber duel, though, like seeing the two of them go against each other. I liked it, but I didn't I didn't love the way it ended because, you know, like you said, it was like, was that really impactful? And then they released the second episode anyway. So it was like, oh, yeah, it was a two parter.
Sabine's Jedi Training: Authentic or Not?
00:08:05
Speaker
Crystal, I want to hear what you have to say, but I do want to point out that I don't know about you.
00:08:10
Speaker
While I liked the energy of the duel, the choreography was very lackluster for me. Because I know I'm a sportsman. I'm a sportsman. More like a Broomsman.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yeah, I felt like that lightsaber duel could have been more impactful as like a conversation because they just were so slow. And I feel like it knocked Shin down a little bit too, because Shin supposedly had been training with, you know, a Jedi master and she can't go up against Sabine, who I know is also a warrior, but she's not trained in like the lightsaber like Shin is. So I think if it was more of like a conversation rather than like, oh,
00:08:58
Speaker
It might have been more like maybe more interesting or maybe more like dynamic or show more for their characters, I guess.
00:09:08
Speaker
I think that's a great point too because the one thing this episode also did was show us that a lot of time had passed since Ahsoka and Sabine were together and it established that so we knew Sabine had not been training she grew out her hair which was a clear indication of time passing and we even see her have to dig the lightsaber out of like
00:09:32
Speaker
just like a tub of stuff. So she wasn't brushed up on those skills, but you're right. Shin's been training and she shows in her own right. She's pretty much a warrior as well. So it was a little odd, but she did get the stab. Right.
00:09:50
Speaker
Well, can we can we talk about the fact that it was so out of left field that Sabine is even training as a Jedi? I mean, I know it's kind of crazy to look back now after like seeing all eight episodes, but it's like that was not a thing. People love to say, well, she was training with the Darksaber and no, no, Canaan and Ezra would have like sensed that. You know what I mean? Canaan was on Ezra's ass in the beginning of season one, episode one. He knew immediately
00:10:20
Speaker
what that kid had going on. I'm sorry but I feel like this would have been seen in Sabine and it was so out of the field and I like when Star Wars kind of throws you into the mix of things and you know a good time jump is fine but
00:10:37
Speaker
I don't feel like this story really justified the 10 year time jump anyways and this is something I want to talk about a bit later on with some of the other episodes but it's just something where I don't feel like the 10 year thing was actually planned because it's like
00:10:52
Speaker
There's so much story there. What do you mean Ahsoka and Sabine are they were training and now Ahsoka and Sabine have this beef and Ahsoka is kind of a dick because we don't even find out what their whole problem is until later on into the to the season. So it just wasn't a great opener for me. I'm not going to lie. It was slow. Yeah. And for that reason, I think it should go in D tier. Oh.
00:11:21
Speaker
Oh, wow. That's a lot lower than I would have put it. Um, I agree with everything that you both are saying, but I felt like when I initially watched this episode, I was very excited about it. Even though it wasn't like hitting those marks or those storytelling beats, like I still was very optimistic about it. So I would go maybe like a siege it just based off my initial feelings and not based off of how everything played out. I mean,
00:11:50
Speaker
I personally, although it was bad, there was a lot of good too that we didn't touch on because it's easy to talk about the bad. Let's not forget the Phantom Menace parallels in the cinematography with Shin and Darth Maul. The Phantom Menace too. That was really good. And so I personally was going to put it in B. But
00:12:17
Speaker
It was a slow opening. I didn't like the lightsaber duel. It's essentially a two-part episode that they split, like episodes one and two are one episode, but they decided to split it in two. Like, why couldn't we get an hour and a half opening episode? But that's, well, no, we didn't. That was the two of them combined, so.
00:12:38
Speaker
I just, I don't like Dave Filoni's directing in live action. I'm sorry. I think his best episode was the, he directed the first episode of The Mandalorian and he did really good. And that was just like debut in live action. And I think he did really good, but I haven't really liked many since. I mean, Ahsoka episode of Mando was fine, but I don't really like his directing. And there's so many scenes where I feel like that really comes out specifically between Ahsoka and Hera.
00:13:07
Speaker
They have no chemistry, and they're sort of lines where it's just so... Not only is it boring, but it's just the things they're talking about are just so on the nose. It doesn't sound like they're talking to each other, characters that are actually experiencing the same things. I think about that scene where Hera and Ahsoka are talking about the map, and Ahsoka's like the map to the last Imperial Grand Admiral.
00:13:35
Speaker
Ron. Like, girl, why the theatrics? Like, Harris and Doula knows. And you're talking about the guy who, like, took her son. Like, you know, I'm pretty sure she knows, but because we're doing this whole thing where it's in live action now, Ahsoka has to speak to the audience directly, like, kind of whisper in their ear and be like, hey, this is what happened in the show you refused to watch. So... You know what that reminds me of?
00:14:04
Speaker
what when she says to her after Sabine takes the map and she's like when I clearly told her not to oh my god hold your hand out like that for 10 minutes however let's also remember because now I've realized I'm gonna have to let off all the positive stuff because y'all aren't going to um seven
00:14:28
Speaker
Let's not forget that introduction was iconic. Let's talk about Rebels fanboy over here wasn't getting off on Ryder Azadi and fucking what's his name? His little friend Ezra's friend is the senator. Jake. Jill. Hi, J. Kel. I don't know what what's his name, you know, Jai Jai Kel. And you love that. And Lothal looked amazing. Did it.
00:14:57
Speaker
I got to look good. OK, one of my issues is everything just looks so cheap, like the costumes. Oh my god, I love the costumes. Lothal is an animated place. It's an animated location. The blades of grass actually look really cool, but there's so many things that just don't work in live action. The species that they have in that scene or the costumes that Ryder is wearing
00:15:25
Speaker
Or, yeah, Jai Khel was in it, but I didn't know that until I hopped on Twitter because it's not like that guy looks anything like Jai Khel. It just kind of feels like they were like it realized in editing like, oh, why don't we just have this be Jai Khel, you know? Some of us are content creators and watch what the captions on. So we knew. And some of us were standing in solidarity with SAG-AFTRA.
00:15:54
Speaker
Dang. So we've decided we're going with C for part two. C2. OK, we have to be sure because we're basing all of our rankings of all the rest of the episodes are going to be around wherever we put Master and Apprentice, which I guess C isn't too bad because it's like right in the middle. But it's I mean, it's in the it's the compromise between my B and Austin's D.
00:16:22
Speaker
Oh, so I get one point. Y'all didn't tell me we were taking points. I would have like prepared a lot harder for this, trained for this moment. Yeah, I mean, I can't lie, Crystal brings up a good point that the way I felt when watching it for the first time,
00:16:43
Speaker
I was fucking hyped. I was like, hell yeah, this is cool. I mean, I realized immediately a lot of the boring scenes, but I can't sit here and be like, oh, this turned me off like the way that Mando season three episode one did or like Kenobi episode one where it was like, you can kind of tell where this is going. We're living in the cylinder that is known as the volume. Yes. Oh my gosh. Where every set is a circle.
00:17:12
Speaker
And Hera is not on screen with anyone else in the whole show. Except C-3PO. And Chopper.
00:17:23
Speaker
Speaking of, in Toil and Trouble, they at least make her a hologram this time. Yes.
Character Highlights: Hera and Corellia
00:17:29
Speaker
Yes. Episode two, Toil and Trouble. Sabine lives. She's fine. She's in a medical bay. Ahsoka's rude as fuck to her for whatever reason. She's like, that lied with you've done enough. I'm like, oh, yeah.
00:17:42
Speaker
a great way to make us just fall in love with your protagonist here. Watching Sabine basically sacrifice her life to keep this map safe. And it's like, you've done enough. Like, okay.
00:17:56
Speaker
okay well don't forget she did take the map when she clearly told her not to oh my god yeah okay fine whatever uh this made me nothing wrong yes thank you like she's just trying to help man like anyways this is the Corellia episode where they go to Corellia no no no i'm not gonna lie wasn't great to me but hey
00:18:25
Speaker
It felt like filler in kind of a good way, where it's like respecting your roots kind of way, where it's like you're from Star Wars Rebels, you're from the Clone Wars. Like, yeah, let's do a little filler episode. And they tied it all together with like Merrick coming in and fighting Ahsoka and whatnot. So what'd you guys think of episode two?
00:18:47
Speaker
Okay, I would give it a C. Because, again, it just, it wasn't really hitting it for me. There's a lot of things that I didn't like, but there were things that I did like, like the Merrick lightsaber thing, like he was so cool and mysterious and, you know, there was some, that's Scottie's boyfriend if you're not up to date. But yeah, I didn't hate it.
00:19:16
Speaker
I mean, I did hate the makeup, but we're not talking about that. But we can now. Right. We can now. The makeup was awful. E. I'm kidding. I would be okay with like a C or D. I think C as well. Scotty, would you think a toil in trouble?
00:19:36
Speaker
Well, in my personal ranking, I ranked Master and Apprentice above Toil and Trouble. So I don't think Toil and Trouble, as good as an episode, is Master and Apprentice. And we have to think of this. This is the hard part. We got these episodes together. We have to think of them as standalone. So how did this episode stand on its own? I don't think it was as good as Master and Apprentice. We just talked about the volume, and the Corellia was Volume City.
00:20:05
Speaker
I thought Corellia looked horrible. Specifically the scene when they're going through the shipyard on the little cart. And I caught myself thinking, they're not even moving. The screen's moving behind them. They're sitting still, probably.
00:20:22
Speaker
Like, right. And that guy was a little min Weaver, whatever his name was. I mean, I will say the outside shots in Corellia looked a lot better than the shipyard. I thought the actual like the dock where they're taking the hyperdrive from where we get our battle with sexy mark and Ahsoka like Mark.
00:20:46
Speaker
And then we get that shot of his butt in there, too. Everyone wants to talk about Harris' butt. Nobody wants to talk about his butt. So... Oh, my God. And that was a fun duel. That was a good duel. And, you know, the lightsaber dodge, now I sound like I'm talking it up.
00:21:02
Speaker
It was all right. It was all right. But, OK, consider this. This is this is my defense of the episode. Sabine has kind of like a little arc in this episode, and that's why I personally feel like it should go above Master and Apprentice, because we see her in the conversations with Huang. We start to finally understand a little bit more about like her insecurities and, you know, those kinds of things. And Huang has that that line, that that very direct line of being like,
00:21:31
Speaker
Yeah, out of all the Jedi, I know you definitely be the worst. But it doesn't mean you should give up and you shouldn't try. And I don't know. I really liked seeing that and then have Sabine seeing that rebirth and going from a shitty wig to an even shittier wig. It was a nice rebirth.
00:21:55
Speaker
I don't know. I liked it. I liked that. And, you know, for me, as, you know, Rebels fanboy, I did love the recreation of the epilogue and
00:22:08
Speaker
People are trying to argue with me that it wasn't the same scene, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. It's the exact same scene. They made that clear when they had Ahsoka the white retcon in episode five. Well, she did just pull that out of her closet, so she could have worn it before. But we're not going to argue that here.
00:22:30
Speaker
It's the same thing, but I liked it. I liked that part. And that's why I feel like, because mind you, I think Master of Independence would be D. That's why I think this episode would be C tier. There's a lot wrong with it.
00:22:46
Speaker
I don't think there's a lot wrong with it. I don't think it just stands super great on its own. With Master in Apprentice, I think it stands better. And I had it ranked as C on my ranking. So I'll go with C. Crystal hated the show and she said C, so. Well, we'll put it behind Master in Apprentice, though. Like, it still should go up.
00:23:10
Speaker
I just want everyone to know that is two for Crystal Kyber. Let's go because of Kyber. All right. Part three. Time to fly a bit of a short episode. I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to start off again. So.
00:23:25
Speaker
How about you guys start by telling me what you thought about part three time to fly. You need to remind me what the episode is about because I have spent the last month like blocking it from my memory. Do you want me to play co-host? I will co-host for once and actually host. In this episode,
00:23:46
Speaker
And I'm going to look at my notes, because I'm not going to be shy about it. So we open up in this episode where Huyang and Sabine are training on the T6 on their way to Setos, because they got the tracker in the last episode. So they're on their way to Setos now. Sabine, Huyang, Ahsoka. They have their little training montage. Ahsoka and Sabine have a little bit of a training session that kind of furthers their relationship, which was nice. They get to Setos.
00:24:15
Speaker
And immediately, Marek and Shin and, you know, the nameless, bondage-looking, Morgan Elspeth soldiers come and try to shoot them down. They don't get them, they run to the ISI on, get blasted, don't die, crash land on the C-Tos. Meanwhile, Hera also meets with the New Republic in the fifth quarter too. Period. Period. And that period. How is that? Is that good?
00:24:43
Speaker
That was perfect. I just want to say the Hera stuff carried, carried the entire episode. Seeing Jason Syndulla for the first time. Oh my God. I love that kid. He's, he's the future of Star Wars. Don't care what anybody has to say. It's funny too, because like when he was introduced in Star Wars Rebels, it was like, Oh God.
00:25:04
Speaker
We all. Crystal, you're the makeup one. So I feel like you were probably most worried after seeing Hera about what Jason was going to look like in life. Oh, I was really worried about those green ears, the green hair. We got the green hair though.
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, and technically we got the green ears because it's just covered by the wig is covering his ears. You know what I will say? I think one of the good things about this and we see this, we all know this as much as we love Star Wars, especially Star Wars animation has a bad problem with whitewashing. I'm glad that this is not some little white boy playing Kane and Son.
00:25:46
Speaker
Yep. So that I appreciate. How did they do Jason so right and Hara so something? I know.
00:25:57
Speaker
Okay, but like they made Hera look like shit, but Mary Elizabeth Winstead, I think does an amazing job. And I think that this scene in episode three is where I really was sold. I was like, okay, because when she stood up to, what's his name? Ziono. Senator Ziono, yeah. What an asshole. When she stood up to him and was like, so
00:26:21
Speaker
Remind me. Did you fight in the war or did you just sit back and wait to see who came out on top? I was like, okay, bitch And In that moment I was like Harrison doula hunty sandula. Come on, let's go Crystal what did you think though? Cuz like we said, this is the short one. Um, I think I
00:26:46
Speaker
I think it was okay. I feel like a lot of these episodes were very mild for me. If I had to rank it, I'd probably rank it C again. I really did like Hera. She gave me Hera. She gave me the attitude of Hera. She was giving. The Hera was herring. Yes.
00:27:09
Speaker
Sorry, I shouldn't talk like that. That's not how I talk. This is Crystal. This is me and Austin's talk. You don't listen between us. I shouldn't have played that video before we did this. We should have played Ahsoka before we did this.
00:27:29
Speaker
I have a question. I have a question for you, Crystal, because you're my prequel girly bestie. You get it. Get it. Is it just me or does any time we get politics in Star Wars, like post Return of the Jedi era, do you just love that? Because I ate that shit up.
00:27:49
Speaker
Um, I don't like it post original trilogy because I feel like it kind of like undermines everything that Luke went through. And so personally, I don't, I don't like that stuff. I think, um, I do like the politics and like the prequels and in Clone Wars, I think it does a good job of setting it up. But anytime I, I get like any whiff of like.
00:28:14
Speaker
Palpatine might return or the Empire is coming back. I'm like, oh, so fuck Luke. Maybe I should rephrase this question because I'm trying to get you to agree with me. Do you enjoy it?
00:28:29
Speaker
watching it on the screen versus more political, less sequel trilogy. Because that was a big thing, as everyone said. There was too much politics in the prequels. But I personally think that side of the galaxy also is very interesting and entertaining. I think that's why I like the Clone Wars so much, because we get all that too. And it even brings some of our force users into the politics, whereas it's kind of like two separate sides. Have I sold you yet? No. I mean.
00:29:01
Speaker
I feel you, but I'm not picking it up. That's okay. I mean, I get where you're coming from.
00:29:09
Speaker
Right. I get where you're coming from as well. Um, but the reason, the reason why I'm not ranking this episode any lower is because there were a lot of things that I liked visually. Like I liked, um, that planet. What was the red planet called? Setos? Setos. Setos. So the red trees, right? Yeah. And then that's the one where they fought, right? And then Merrick turned into like a,
00:29:31
Speaker
Well that's episode four, but yeah. Okay, but it like happens there. They like split up and stuff. Yeah, because they crash. This is where they crash. And then we end with that scene of Balan getting ready to make a move, but that's when it ends. Oh, got it. And then time to fly. That's yeah, that's like where Shin was fighting. Yeah, there's parts that I liked.
00:29:53
Speaker
I will say, yeah, I really did like the dog fight there. That felt very prequel and I don't know if it's just because Shin wears the same headpiece that Anakin wears in his battles. He even wears it in the 2D Clone Wars.
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah, I enjoyed that. The fight's fun, because that's when Sabina and Ahsoka first start working together, too. Because they have, it's like when they fall kind of back into their old ways, finally, after this 10 years of something.
00:30:26
Speaker
yeah i also this is the space cartwheel episode where asoka puts on a spacesuit and goes out again oh i loved it to me it felt very camp because it felt like the clone wars it felt like an episode of the clone wars somehow scotty was not a fan oh i have mixed feelings i feel like i'm right in between you two like a part of me wants to like it and then part of me is like oh it's weird though
00:30:55
Speaker
I think I might be more where you're at, Crystal, and only because Ahsoka's face looks like a green screen in the suit. Her face looks like it's the only real thing in that scene to me. I think that's where I need to suspend my disbelief. Right. So distracting. D. Yeah. Oh, I would go with D. I would say B. So I guess we're going to have to put it in C.
00:31:25
Speaker
be everything's going to be in C at this rate. I know the whole season. I like B. I think I think beats here because I liked the episode. I liked the vibes. It felt like a Clone Wars episode. It was short enough to be one. Yeah.
00:31:46
Speaker
The biggest thing that I that I didn't enjoy is I just felt like set up for the next episode. Exactly. So I don't know, but I still enjoyed it for what it was. I feel like just because it's set up doesn't mean that it's not good. It still has to. I know I know we keep talking about like how these episodes stand on their own, but I mean, we got to remember.
00:32:08
Speaker
They aren't meant to stand on their own. They are part of the eight parts. Unfortunately, that's to their detriment, but that's a different that's a different podcast episode. Crystal, which category do you want to put it in? D. OK, and I said D and Austin said B.
00:32:28
Speaker
Okay, here's the thing. If I give in to this now, everything from here on, I am Grand Admiral Thrawn and I am bringing war back to the galaxy because I ain't going to be budging on some of these next few episodes. I'm willing to go with C only because these first three episodes are all set up at the end of the day. They're all catch up. And I think that's why I like the second half of the season so much better because it's new at that point.
00:32:55
Speaker
Right. Hmm. I would be okay with it being a C, but not a B. Yeah, no B. Well, I just, I enjoy it so much more than these other two episodes because like you said, they are all set up, but I feel like this one's the most artistic one where it's like, we can do something here. We can have moments that, and it, and it respects its roots. Like I know, I know you don't love the whole thing.
00:33:20
Speaker
for me here's the thing i think the entire show looks like shit and so for me it's almost hard for me to like look at that and be like that ruin the show for me because if i if i start doing that the whole thing is really so okay hold on so if this show looks like shit what does Kenobi look like like dog shit
00:33:40
Speaker
Oh, so regular shit looks better than dog shit? Yeah, Ahsoka looks better than Kenobi, but it still looks horrible. I think it's another point for Crystal Kyber, D. D? Oh, I mean, B. D2. My bad. That's a point for none of us. Right?
00:34:04
Speaker
It's another point to Scotty's compromise. It is a C for compromise for Crystal. So just to be clear, you don't like part one or two better than this one, right? I do. You could put it B4O. I would master an apprentice time to fly toil and trouble. Okay. Okay. Crystal, you good with that? Yeah, I'm good with that.
00:34:32
Speaker
How do I do that? The tier list isn't good with. OK, I feel like, though, we're actually getting into the meat and potatoes of the show because now this is where I was going to say I was like, I'm not doing the meat. I'll just have the potatoes, the potatoes and the potatoes, the sauteed onions and mushrooms and potatoes talking for me.
00:35:01
Speaker
Happy Thanksgiving, y'all. Yes. Happy vegan Thanksgiving. We don't celebrate here, but we're excited to eat. We'll be recording a video. I won't even be eating, so... Austin is going to edit all of this out. And we'll never see the light of day. It'll go back with the Scottie cut. And the bloopers for Patreon.
Episode Four Highlights and Anakin's Cameo
00:35:30
Speaker
Episode four, Shadow Warrior, in my opinion, the best episode. This is the episode where we have Bailin and Ahsoka, they face off, Shin and Sabine face off. This is the episode where Merrick gets killed. This is where shit happens. The drama of this episode, the stakes, it's so good. Seeing Sabine
00:35:54
Speaker
You know, they set up this whole thing in the beginning with Ahsoka and Sabine saying, you know, if we can't get this map, nobody can get this map, which means that you will have to destroy it if it comes down to it. And we're kind of like, who is Sabine going to do that? And that adds so much stakes to this fucking map finally, because it's like, oh, my God, like you guys have followed this map.
00:36:18
Speaker
And now we finally have a reason to fucking care. And so I enjoyed that. And seeing Sabine actually accept Bailin's offer and Bailin getting really deep into Sabine's insecurities and the things that she's upset about. She feels like she's got no one left. Oh, he ate that shit up. So good. So it's like
00:36:44
Speaker
It's like the one time in this show where them giving us information works because he's pulling out of her mind. And while it's telling the audience, because that's when we learn when her family died in the Night of a Thousand Tears. But he's doing it in a way to manipulate her into pulling into her, or playing into her feelings. It's good. It's a good episode. Rip to my boy. I was very sad. If he shimmies away.
00:37:14
Speaker
But even Hu Yang, he even proves that we've gotten somewhere when he's like, you guys work better when you stay together. Please do not do anything apart. And even though they're kind of sarcastic about it, they're like, yeah, he's right. Yeah. And then they split apart. And that's when shit hits the fan. Is it not? This episode's intense. Bailyn fucking slays this episode, like you said. This episode was really good.
00:37:44
Speaker
I feel like all the characters were making their own decisions, which sometimes things happen to characters. But this one, they put themselves in position. Sabine made the choice to give the map to Bailin. Sabine made the choice to chase after Merit. They all made their own decisions, which I think is good storytelling. And like you said earlier, Austin, the stakes were so high. And it kept us guessing. Up until the minute that she gave the map
00:38:13
Speaker
to Bailin, I was like, is she gonna do it? Is she not gonna do it? Like, I didn't want her to, but what's she going to? Like, where's this going? Like, I was, I was right there in it. Beat here. It's, it's intense. Well, we'll, we'll see about Beat here. So here's the thing. Ahsoka and Bailin, their duel is amazing. When Shin shows up,
00:38:38
Speaker
And like, Ahsoka thinks Sabine's dead, that Shin defeated her. Ahsoka, she gets a little dark there, and like,
00:38:48
Speaker
And what do we see it do? It knocks her off her game. That's what gets her knocked off the cliff. I mean, Baelin's clearly more physically stronger than her. Not necessarily in the Force, but physically, he's going to overpower her. So she needs to be on her A-game to make sure she is going to defeat him. And she gives her her emotions in that moment.
00:39:09
Speaker
which was some good development for her, because what has everybody said the whole time? Ahsoka crosses her arms and she has no emotions. So we see her given to that. I love after Ahsoka falls off the cliff, because even though we talk about all this build up and stuff, even though we know Ahsoka is not going to die, I was like, what the fuck happened to her? Like, I was still nervous about it. Unlike the Sabine stab and, you know, the first episode like that, I was like, oh, she's fine.
00:39:37
Speaker
And then on top of that, once Sabine does show up, even before she offers to give the map, or like she gives it up to Baelin, Shin Suckin like chokes her with the force, because she's pissed. Yeah, it's kind of hot. Yeah, it is. We haven't even talked about, what is it, Ren Wolf? Wolf Ren?
00:40:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. They have so much chemistry. I have that right here in my notes. Sabine Shin's chemistry is insane. Like the lightsaber duels are like sex scenes. Especially in this episode in comparison to the first one. Yeah. S tier. S tier. Oh.
00:40:22
Speaker
like 10 out 10 episode the best direction who directed this episode who because because whoever the fuck it was put their whole asocracy into this thing because asocracy okay because peter ramsey okay spider verse director of course he fucking did this episode because the direction is is so
00:40:48
Speaker
Amazing, like I think of the shot where you have Sabine's helmet on the floor and it's just kind of going past and it's like, you're telling the story through visual, like through the cinematography, you're telling the story of what happened, you know, really utilizing the set you have, you know, Setos is gorgeous, it's gorgeous. And, you know, seeing all the shit in the sky,
00:41:15
Speaker
Either way, we get our circle cheeses. Yeah. This one is really good. And the volume's in it. There's some scenes where I can pick it out. But like you said, I think it's used well here, unlike in other places. So Crystal Kyber, again, I'm going to point this round, baby. It is S tier. Y'all talk to me. It's still S tier. Talking about it, I'm like.
00:41:42
Speaker
yeah if we had to have like a best episode it would be this one if there had to be one if we have to make one of them the best one i guess it's this one i just yeah i mean i'll give it to you we can go with us here because it's like the bar is pretty low already so
00:42:05
Speaker
We can't fit it in safe. We got to have. So I just think the writing's the best. You know, I always say that the things I loved about like Andor and The Last Jedi, you know, some of my top Star Wars projects, please, before you click off, just listen to what I have to say. I feel like people in those projects, they actually get to speak to each other and talk about things. Yeah. And this episode does that. Granted, is it the best dialogue?
00:42:35
Speaker
No, but it fucking tried. It tried. And I just think of the scenes with, like, Balan Skull specifically talking to Ahsoka, talking to Sabine, everybody in the order knew Anakin Skywalker. And then Ahsoka's like, well, he never mentioned you. I was like, oh, OK. Like, I don't think Alan is real proud.
00:42:56
Speaker
Well, and something I did like about that dialogue that you just said, Austin, about like, Oh, everyone knew Anakin, and we didn't know you. I feel like when it's that kind of dialogue, there's so much like subtext there. And like, we can think we as a viewer can think like a million different things like was bailing jealous? Like, what was the overall consensus? Like what it allows us as the viewer to like have a little bit
00:43:19
Speaker
imagination of imagination about the story, whereas like the first three episodes was all like exposition and we're like told what happened. We weren't able to like imagine it. So right. Yeah. And on top of that, we're forgetting the the high, not the highlight of the episode, the finale of the episode, if you will, the transition of the transition of the water into the world between worlds. Ahsoka wakes up, we see the sparkly floor and we're like,
00:43:49
Speaker
Is Dave Filoni doing it? Are we doing it? She gets up. She turns around, and who is it? Anakin fucking Skywalker. And then it ends. Mr. Star Wars himself. The poster boy of the Jedi Order, as one might say. Everyone knew Anakin Skywalker, so there he is in the flesh. And he's like, oh.
00:44:17
Speaker
I didn't think you'd be here so soon. And then it ends. How is that not like top tier, Crystal? On top of- All right, I agree. And then it goes into straight fanservice at the end. People want to complain about fanservice, but this was good. I don't know. I'm here for it. I don't know. I'll give it to you. I cried, whatever. It gets a cry point from Scotty.
00:44:43
Speaker
I was avoiding mentioning that part because then then I would have to rank it lower. So. Oh my God. Not even the wig. I was so confused why he looks so airbrushed, especially because in the next episode, he looks great. And for me, I don't know, it was cool because it was like it ended. And so I didn't I didn't know what happened next. Yeah, exactly.
00:45:12
Speaker
I could be like, oh, that's cool. Like, you know, because it wasn't, I couldn't sit here and say they didn't utilize him enough or anything. However, as we get into part five, Shadow Warriors, you're not going to like my opinion on this episode. Do I need to recap it? I feel like we know what happens in this episode. It's, this is the Clone Wars. This is, he's a Mandalore. Why don't we talk about the other parts of that?
00:45:43
Speaker
Cause I feel like some things we can agree on. Uh, we get the new Republic, they get there. Um, we were forgetting the whole Herod basically says, fuck y'all. I'm going to see toes anyway. And she's got Carson Tava. Uh, the guy who plays the Mandalorian under the suit, not Zeb missed opportunity, but that's the point. They get fucked up because as they arrive, the eye of Scion just goes into hyperspace.
00:46:13
Speaker
They make it, they land. And then we get the whole thing with Jason, hearing the lightsabers and the waves. He gets Hera to tap in and hear it. We get that super emotional moment with Huyang when he's like, they never listen. They never listen. And I know y'all felt a little something. Oh yeah. I don't cry in movies and shows, but that almost had me. And that's like from the jump. Yeah.
00:46:41
Speaker
I'm telling you, I say this every time we talk about droids, but droids are our dogs for me. In dogs and movies, if something happens to the dog, it ruins you. And that's me with droids. Seeing Huiang fucking almost in tears, you could tell he was almost in tears, droid tears. But to start leaking out zeros and ones. But I, yeah, I think that stuff was fantastic.
00:47:09
Speaker
Definitely, you know, even afterwards, seeing Ahsoka and Jason together or seeing the rebirth of Ahsoka where it's like afterwards, she's acting nice now. She's laughing, she's smiling. She hugs Jason and she laughs. My thing with that is it's just none of it's earned. But before I start complaining, what do you think, Crystal?
00:47:38
Speaker
Um, even though I disliked this episode the most, it was the most memorable. I think maybe because of like how much I didn't like it. And I'm such a Clone Wars girly. And this just like, I don't know. There was just such a huge disconnect for me. And it was like the most prominent parts of the episode were just like such a flop. Um, but oh, and then we get like the jump scare.
00:48:03
Speaker
Ahsoka the white's jump scare. Her like, bald head. Ahsoka the bald. Ahsoka the bald. That was very interesting. I don't know if we needed to see that. But yeah, she did have her little laugh at the end, but I don't know. This was definitely E tier for me. Worst episode. I think I had too much expectations going into it, but I just thought it was done very badly. Yeah. E tier for me as well.
00:48:32
Speaker
I say an E. Yeah. Yeah. E absolute worst. F X E W Q R S U B. Thank you, Kanye. So E two, you will bring it out of me because we are both Gemini's unfortunately. And I'm about ready to fight. I'm about ready to be the shadow warrior here.
00:48:57
Speaker
Aww. Well, okay. I understand that, you know, for people that like to have keys jangled in front of them, this is like Godfather Part 2 for them. But, to me, I see through the bullshit.
00:49:12
Speaker
I'm sorry that sounds so elitist but it's true it's it's a bullshit episode okay okay Ahsoka the white I love seeing how she she came out and and she's so much better now she's so she's so much nicer and she gets to wear lighter clothing because she's nice but why why did that happen yeah
00:49:32
Speaker
What changed within her that we see this entire Clone Wars flashback where it's like Anakin's like, I have one last lesson to teach you, Ahsoka, live or die. And it's like, oh, Ahsoka learned the lesson that she wants to live. Did anybody know she wanted to fucking die? I wasn't aware. Like, your way to. She chooses to live. Oh, my God. Like, congratulations, you know.
00:50:02
Speaker
Well, I have a question because I'm not going to let y'all just sit here and shit on it the whole time. So I'm going to try to spin it. What did we think of Ariana Greenblatt's Ahsoka? Fine. Not a fan. Like, you know, I think that she's a great actress and I think that she did her all. And one aspect I really liked, I will give it to you. Seeing Ahsoka as like a child, like it puts it into perspective.
00:50:28
Speaker
Like that little 10 year old girl. I'm sorry. She's like 16. That's 16 year old girl. She's not 16 until the siege of Mandalore. She's like 14 in the scenes when it's talking about. I'm talking about Ariana Greenblatt. She's 16. And, you know, we see her in the siege of Mandalore and it's crazy to think like that little girl fought Darth Maul. Like, you know what I mean? It puts it into perspective. I really appreciate that. But
00:50:58
Speaker
I don't know. Actually, Ariana Greenblatt did good because what Ariana is doing is she has to be young Ahsoka with the mindset of older Ahsoka. So in that regard, I think she did fine. But that's just because any faults that she has, I feel like that just comes with...
00:51:18
Speaker
what she has to work for. Directing, writing. Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that she has to base her performance off of Rosario Dawson's, which is kind of nothing like animated Ahsoka. So she has to like be the the interconnectedness there. And that's that's a lot to do and there's lots of pull off. So actually, I take back everything I said, I think she did great.
00:51:43
Speaker
So you're thinking A tier now, maybe? Oh, no. No, it's still E tier all day long. It's just like you're going to bring back Anakin Skywalker and do this to me where there's nothing. You're going to give me nothing. There's so much nothing. No, I mean, like as a performance, he gave everything. But as for the character, what the fuck was he doing there? I mean, you guys bring up valid points and even I
00:52:13
Speaker
I mean, we mentioned the VCs that we would do together afterwards. And like, yes, was I crying? Did almost like 2000 people watch me cry on YouTube about this episode? Yes. And I'm fine with that. I ugly cried. I sobbed. Whatever. But at the end of the day, I did agree. Like I was like, I don't really know what she learned. And I know now I guess they were saying that she
00:52:39
Speaker
She was trained to be nothing but a soldier and she was scared that her legacy was just gonna end up like Anakin's where it was nothing but death and, you know, negativity and whatever. And that's why she was the way that she was because she was so traumatized by everything. But in y'all's defense, I only know this because I watched the animated shows. For people not watching it, yeah, I could see where they would just be like,
00:53:07
Speaker
Oh, she fought Anakin, who I finally now know is her master, but I don't know why, because he didn't have a padawan and some bullshit like that.
00:53:17
Speaker
But I'm not willing to put it lower than A. Well, you're going to have to, because here's the thing. It sucks. It's just using your love for the animated show and your love for Anakin Skywalker. And I will suck the Clone Wars dick dry. That's not storytelling. Easy, because there's nothing in there.
00:53:41
Speaker
that is not storytelling the way especially because we're coming from a franchise called star wars made by george lucas the man oh no no no no we're not doing this
00:53:55
Speaker
George Lucas Star Wars don't be pulling this on me. Oh yes we are. Yes we are. Because Ahsoka started out under George Lucas. Are you gonna hate crime me next? And you can see the love George Lucas had
00:54:13
Speaker
for storytelling where okay the prequel trilogy everyone wanted he's talked about this all the time everyone wanted a trilogy of Darth Vader in the first movie Darth Vader Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader in the next two movies he's just killing Jedi for the rest of time
00:54:30
Speaker
That's what they wanted. And if George Lucas wanted to make two billion dollars in the most successful movies of all time, he could have done that. But you know what he did instead? He made political thrillers that we all fucking love nowadays that were extremely shitted on before. And he didn't love them then, too.
00:54:46
Speaker
You know what George Lucas said? He said, you don't like this first movie? Well, I'm going to make two more. And I'm going to make a fucking animated series. And what are you going to do about it? What are you going to do about it? This is my artistic vision. And now we're here. Now we're here where they're like, here's Anakin Skywalker. Tune in, guys. We're going to post the poster of Anakin Skywalker on the same day because we're just begging people to fucking watch this show. The poster was bad, too. He didn't look very good in it.
00:55:13
Speaker
And my thing is with this episode, I feel like there was so much you could have done and I hate to be that person where it's like, well, in my mind, this is what could have happened. But the biggest, the most obvious thing going against Ahsoka, in my opinion, the thing that she should have learned is that
00:55:34
Speaker
Anakin's fall to the dark side is not her fault. She did not do that. And there was nothing she could have done to stop that. And I think that that would have been a much more useful idea of these flashbacks and having everything showing, literally showing that no matter what you did, you would have fallen. He would have fallen to the dark side. And you're not that you're going beyond him. And, you know, you are his legacy. That's kind of what they did. But it just feels like a more shallow version of it, where it's like
00:56:02
Speaker
Yeah, you are what they grow beyond. But it's also weird, too, because Anakin Skywalker, you want to tell me he's sitting here. Ahsoka's like, your legacy is one of death and destruction. And he's like, is that what this is all about? Acting like all he did was, back in the day, maybe kill a cockroach or something. He's like, you're still mad about that?
00:56:28
Speaker
Bitch, you brought galactic turmoil and oppression to this entire galaxy. What do you mean? Is that what this is all about? Right. Yeah. It's here. Yeah, there's just there's so much about it where it was like,
00:56:46
Speaker
it was so disconnected and disjointed and kind of like what you were just saying Austin of it being more about like Ahsoka not feeling responsible or guilty for Anakin considering the last time that she saw him was Darth Vader when she was about to like die herself like it didn't really like all the context that we had before this show didn't make it into this show
00:57:09
Speaker
And I think that's why I didn't like hit emotionally for me. And then all these points about like, oh, this is what the story meant, or we can interpret it this way. It was so foggy because it was memories and this and this and this. But I'm like, but it just it wasn't done well. Like I get it, but it wasn't good. So y'all think so regardless of the good things we have talked about it.
00:57:33
Speaker
you think that there's nothing redeeming about it. Because I will compromise and not put it in S tier, but I'm not going to put it in E tier. I'm not going to put it in anything below C tier. Well, C tier is fine. Really? I think it's like, I think it's behind C tier. Like at the very least it's behind Master Apprentice. Time to find Twilight Trouble.
00:57:55
Speaker
OK, Scotty, you're really you're really going to sit here and say you're going to be like, yeah, having Anakin Skywalker show up and come through the screen and suck my dick is is good storytelling. I mean, that's what I said. I said I agree that I don't I think that stuff only works because I have the context and I understand exactly what happened.
00:58:22
Speaker
but there's still good in the episode. It's not a completely horrid episode, which is why I'm willing to compromise, but I'm not putting it. If I said S and y'all said E, if we're gonna compromise, C is the answer.
00:58:39
Speaker
B said A, so D is the answer. But I have like another point of another point was, okay, so Scottie, we're prequels fans. They're not the best movies. We can acknowledge that, but we still love it. We can acknowledge that Shadow Warrior was not good, but you can still like it. And where was Attack of the Clones on Scottie's ranking last year?
00:59:05
Speaker
So I will suck off the nostalgia of whatever till the very last drop. Let me ask you this. When you cried, because it's been a while since I watched your reaction episode, why did you cry? Maybe that should have been a required feeling. What specifically made you cry? So I cried because I've got to be strategic here because I know if I say certain things, you're going to use it against me.
00:59:34
Speaker
Um, I cried being able to see Anakin and Ahsoka on screen interacting in the Clone Wars as themselves. And also the journey that Ahsoka goes on in kind of recontextualizing everything and then coming out reborn as Ahsoka the White. Now, will I agree that it's a little muddied? Yes. However.
01:00:02
Speaker
It's not shit. I knew that this was going to be the episode that we were all going to... Listen, I also enjoy seeing Anakin and Ahsoka on screen. And that's why for 15 years, I tuned into this little show called The Clone Wars, where they were on screen together for 98% of the fucking runtime. And so for that reason, I don't feel like
01:00:32
Speaker
I hated this shit on Twitter and it bothered me so much that I couldn't talk about it because people were like, I just feel so validated as a Clone Wars fan today. Seeing this come, is it really validating? Was it, if you're such a Clone Wars fan, was it not validating seeing the entire story come together in a four arc?
01:00:51
Speaker
animated movie basically where it's the most cinematic thing of all time the siege of mandalor like is it really validating what what exactly is validating about you know to me that just that just you know it's like you you just look at animation as lesser than and people love
01:01:10
Speaker
here's the thing animation is cinema animation is cinema and then they're like oh my god yes I'm gonna go watch the Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast live-action because I feel so validated now it's like I do not give in to that shit however once again if I am willing to compromise and admit that there is bad in the episode I don't see why y'all can't compromise and the good that is there
01:01:36
Speaker
Like there were good things about this episode, but this episode, but it just left such a bad taste in my mouth. Like from start to finish, I was just like, dude, what? Like I couldn't, I was just, I was in shock. Like I think maybe it would have been better if Ashley Eckstein did voiceover. Oh Jesus. Here we go. Had to bring her up.
01:01:58
Speaker
Because the show didn't. I will. Also, we finally got Rex in live action also. And like, he was 30 feet in the background. No, don't forget. There's just so much. Siege of Mandalore, when we get a close up, because I cried, I started crying again. And he says, Come on, come on, let's go. And
01:02:24
Speaker
That's it. I know. You just cried because he appeared. Yep. He stepped out of the fog so you could see him a little bit better. I wanted to take off his helmet. I wanted to be our boy, Tim Morrison. And like I wanted this moment that I wanted moments that never happened. And I think because it was so visceral for me, it's like an E.
01:02:49
Speaker
I'm willing to admit there's good in the episode and for that reason, I think it's going to be too. We can continue for time and we can come back to this at the end.
01:03:04
Speaker
No. I respect your opinion a lot, Scotty. I know that you love this, so I'm sorry that it's me. I'm sorry. I love you. I love your opinion. I respect it. You're valid. I do feel like you got piled up again, so I will say there's good in the episode. Like I said, Jason and Ahsoka love that.
01:03:25
Speaker
I love the way Ahsoka acts afterwards. The whole ending feels very hopeful. Granted, it went on for way too long, but whatever, it's fine. The whole show did. And so I don't know. Listen, I just don't know if I can put it in C-tier morally.
01:03:49
Speaker
You can put it you can put it last in Ceter. Oh, wow. That's just that is a big compromise on Scotties. And I respect that. But I mean, it's not my ranking. This is our combined ranking. So it doesn't have to be accurate to mine. However, I'll compromise and put in Ceter at the end. And that's my final offer.
01:04:13
Speaker
Mmm. Listen. For time's sake, you should just take it. Like, we got to move on. But I'm no bitch. I just I just don't think I just don't think that because to me, what your what your argument sounds like is, well, there's things I enjoyed that I have seen before and we're there again.
01:04:39
Speaker
And how is that in any way S tier? I'm not arguing S tier anymore. I said back of C. Well, but if you're, but that's the thing is you, the reason you want it in C tier is because you think it's S tier. And so for the pot, for the people listening, I'm nodding my head in agreement. Yes.
01:05:06
Speaker
And so I just don't see how that makes any sense. Well, I am confrontational when I have to be. And so I'm not budging back at sea. Crystal, what do you think? Crystal agreed with me.
01:05:27
Speaker
I mean, I don't think that Shadow Warrior is going to get any lower from Scottie. And while I disagree with them respectfully, I feel like if that is going to be like the three of our rankings, then it would probably be right in the middle. Yeah. Okay. But I don't feel good about this.
01:05:50
Speaker
I don't feel good about it either, but for the sake I don't feel good about it either, but it is what it is. I think I thought I was going to be here fighting for my life, but it's got you. I think there's a holy trinity of shit Star Wars, and it goes the rise of Skywalker, Book of Boba Fett, chapter six, Shadow Warrior.
Thrawn, Nightsisters, and New Galaxy
01:06:15
Speaker
And those are like
01:06:19
Speaker
If you go to make a bad Star Wars movie like Taika Waititi, he's going in making a bad Star Wars movie. Before you do that, you have to meet with those movies. They sit in thrones and you go into a little room and they tell you. Bring your little chick in. Do you have what it takes to be as shitty as us? And you suck them off. You suck off each of the movies to get their permission. Exactly. Just like me and this episode and my bold fit foggy Clone Wars. Next part.
01:06:49
Speaker
Yeah. Far, far away. Let's get far, far away from Shadow Warrior and move forward. Yes. So what the fuck even happened to this episode? Eat here and I can see. So this is the episode where Ahsoka's not in it. And I would say y'all should love it.
01:07:14
Speaker
We get that beginning. This is where Thrawn's introduced. This is where the Nightsisters are introduced. We go to the new galaxy. Here's my thing. My one thing, and then I'll let y'all talk.
01:07:26
Speaker
They keep hyping up this new galaxy. Oh, we're going to this new place. It's going to be new and innovative. We're taking Star Wars to a new place. And it's boring as shit. It's boring as all hell. The location is boring. And I know that was the point is that it's supposed to be old and run down and whatever. But it's just another boring sand planet that looks like it was filmed on the lot of, you know, like the back of San Diego. But it wasn't because it was filmed on the volume. So.
01:07:58
Speaker
Um, I will say I really liked the Nightsisters. Are they great mothers or are they just Nightsisters? Great mothers.
01:08:05
Speaker
They were amazing. They gave me everything they needed to. Their makeup was awesome. Their clothing was awesome. I liked the three of them. I liked the symbolism of like or the reference to Greek mythology. I thought that was really cool. I kind of liked that the planet was like really shitty because it kind of had this feeling of like doom. Like we're going to get stuck here. We're going to
01:08:29
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of had this like, oh God, like why are we here? This sucks sort of thing. And it felt very like final as well. But I didn't like the Thrawn reveal. I was like pretty bummed out about him. And I think because we got like an Enoch reveal like moments before, and so I felt like that took away from Thrawn. Is this where we also got an Ezra reveal? Yeah, at the end. Yes, in the end of the episode, yes we did.
01:08:57
Speaker
I think I would rank this episode higher just because of Ezra. I think that he's very charming. There's also a few moments with Sabine that I liked. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. I think that
01:09:16
Speaker
I actually love the Thrawn stuff for me personally. I really like Lars Mikkelsen as Thrawn. I think that he does great. I think that the makeup, they do everyone dirty.
01:09:30
Speaker
And so like I said earlier, if I start if I start basing my opinion of this show on how things look, the entire thing goes to shit. So, yeah, I, you know, I liked that my whole thing with this episode and kind of the following three episodes in kind of what I touched on earlier, this whole 10 year thing clearly was never meant to happen.
01:09:55
Speaker
It fucked it up a bit with the whole we have to just skip the original trilogy. Yeah. And the whole ten year thing happens because it has to take place after the Mandalorian because there's things like Ezra and Thrawn, their whole thing. It's not really explained what that was doing. And one thing, Crystal, you brought up you love Ezra. I love Imanis Fandias Ezra too. But as time goes on, I'm starting to realize something.
01:10:23
Speaker
that he's almost too close to what Ezra was before where in my opinion
01:10:32
Speaker
they don't do a really good job of showing that Ezra was gone for 10 years, ripped away from his entire family. He's just bright and cheery, like it took you long enough or I knew I could count on you. He's the opposite of Ahsoka, like Rosaria Ahsoka is completely like for the most part different than animated Ahsoka. And you're right, Imanis Fandi is like the perfect Ezra because he's acting like the Ezra we know. Yeah. And I don't think that's his fault because
01:11:01
Speaker
I think it was Tet who brought this up was that, well, what's probably going to happen is they probably kind of regressed his character because they're going to have him go on this journey within the Mandoverse of growing up. But my thing is that happened in Rebels. By the end of Rebels, he was already like that. In fact, he was really depressed. He was fucked up in the last few episodes of Rebels.
01:11:30
Speaker
And now 10 years later, he's here. He's all bright and cheery. And it's not explained like what went on with Thrawn and, uh, you know, Ezra. And they just, it doesn't feel like they were there for 10 years. Like, you want to tell me he was sitting there for 10 years, like.
01:11:47
Speaker
His his costume has a few burn marks in it that probably happened because Lars Nicholson was smoking cigarettes behind like That's really all the wear and tear of 10 years like come on. I want to see the boxers. Oh This is really weird only because
01:12:12
Speaker
Crystal and I were so dark side Ezra. Yeah. And then we just accepted that that wasn't the case. And in watching it, I was like, really Ezra's just chilling on the planet and Thrawn just like let him go.
01:12:27
Speaker
Thrawn would have been ready to kill Ezra. Ezra was ready to sacrifice himself to kill Thrawn. And they got there and they were just like, all right, bye Ezra, have fun. We're gonna stay on our ship. And you go figure some shit out. So, oh, this makes it so rough. Cause I really like this episode too. I really liked the great mothers, like Crystal said. If we want to argue about makeup, once again, like Crystal said, their makeup probably slays the most in this.
01:12:57
Speaker
Yeah. They look great. They look amazing. I think that Ezra looks great. He doesn't look like he did. He has a beard now, and that's always fucking like, look, he's grizzled and rugged now. Maybe there's hope that we'll get him with a green lightsaber after he makes his little journey in the Mando-verse again, since we're repeating that.
01:13:21
Speaker
Yeah. Ooh, this is tough. I'm like, where do I want to put this episode? Part of me, I'm like, is there anything that we're missing? Get there. Get thrown on. Go ahead, Crystal, if you remember.
01:13:38
Speaker
I do. We haven't talked about it because it was so lackluster, but we talked about Ezra, but we didn't talk about Ezra Sabine reunion. And I know you two know how I feel about their reunion, but I felt like it was so flat. Like there's nothing to them. And we didn't really get anything from them for like the next few episodes, but, um, yeah, I was really disappointed.
01:14:02
Speaker
Well, we got Sabine dodging the question every time about how she even got there. Right. So here's the thing is this is an episode that when I first watched it, I was like, this is amazing. The third time I watched it, this is amazing. But as time has gone on and I keep thinking about it and just like.
01:14:20
Speaker
how these characters have developed because that's something I think about a lot is how we had these discussions before where you guys wanted to see Ezra turn to the dark side. And my thing was always that's a crazy thing to happen off screen. But this is like this is just like the other side of the extreme where it's like you regress his character back to what he was before.
01:14:42
Speaker
off screen and again i think it just comes down to this story wasn't meant to take place 10 years after it's clear that this story i mean i have i have all my little theories and all my evidence and things and articles and whatnot that tie into it but
01:15:00
Speaker
It's just clear that this story was meant to be Dave Filoni wanted to tell the story of the Mandalorian, like of Mandalore and how like all this stuff we're hearing about Sabine's family and stuff. I can almost guarantee you that when Dave Filoni first pitched his Mandalorian show to Kathleen Kennedy, which mind you is the reason he's working on the Mandalorian.
01:15:22
Speaker
because they combine two projects. I can almost guarantee you all this stuff about Ursa Wren and the Night of a Thousand Tears and in general.
01:15:32
Speaker
Yeah, Ahsoka and Sabine training, all that would have been in this show. And so I just, that's, I feel like this show really shows it. And for me, I really do think that the whole thing with Ezra is because we just need people to be on the same page. And to me, that's what this whole series is. We'll talk about it in the end, but we started off in almost the same place that we started, with characters in a distant galaxy.
01:15:59
Speaker
And it's just because we need to get live action and animation fans on the same page. And that's what this entire season of this show felt like to me. I think we get some good Balan and Shin. Something I feel like I wish we got more of in this entire series. But we get some good, like, figuring out that Balan's searching for this new thing, which is an exciting part of it because, as we kind of talked about at the beginning, they're like the new thing.
01:16:24
Speaker
That's why people like them so much because there's so much intrigue there. I could argue about the Ezra thing and say that, well, Ezra was taken away from everything he knew, so he regressed back to what he was prior to his growth because he had none of that support system around anymore. But I'm not trying to sit here and argue that because it's whatever. I think this episode
01:16:52
Speaker
I know this one's a hard one. I'm thinking A or B. I was thinking B. I definitely, I definitely like it better than Master and Apprentice, so I think that's fair. I think B is fair. B it is. B it is.
01:17:13
Speaker
All right, part seven. Scotty, Scotty's like, I gave up all my arguing spoons. No, I mean, I'm fine with that. This episode's good. But it's like, once again, it's we just run into this whole, I'm trying to ignore, not trying to ignore what you're saying, Austin, but I'm like, when we talk about like,
01:17:38
Speaker
what happened out of universe, like behind the scenes. I'm like, it just taints the whole thing. So I'm like, oh, don't focus on that. Let's focus on what we got. And I do like the introductions, even though Thrawn shit is all camp and they're like, Thrawn, Thrawn, ooh, Captain Enoch is very scary and unsettling.
01:17:58
Speaker
We see Sabine growth. There's a lot of good in this episode. Even though she's with the bad people, she's like, well, fuck y'all. I'm going to go see it. And can we talk about the Howler? The Howler is so cute. Oh, love the Howler. Yeah. That was a fun introduction. And then Nody are cute too. Yeah. It's just one of those things where when you look into the behind the scenes, it's like,
01:18:21
Speaker
Before we knew about the volume, we probably would have never been able to tell. But now that we know that the volume exists, we can see it in every single shot. I don't think we see it in the shots out of the temple.
01:18:36
Speaker
I don't. I see it. I see it in almost everything. And then the things that I don't see it in are blue screens because then they show in the behind the scenes and it's just blue screens. And I'm like, well, there you go. You know, I saw that I was like, it looks like the prequels all over. I thought they were running away with.
01:18:53
Speaker
But it's just the behind the scenes thing. It ruins everything. And as we're recording this podcast, I'm in the middle of making a video about why I think Ahsoka turned out the way it did. And looking at all this behind the scenes stuff and going all the way back to when Lucasfilm first started. And now it just ruined my whole perception. The same thing happened with the recent Spider-Man movie, No Way Home.
01:19:22
Speaker
where I know that won't mean anything to you guys. But in the movie, basically, they forget Peter Parker. Everyone forgets Peter Parker. Right. And you think, oh, that's a really good story decision. But then you look at the behind the scenes and the whole reason they did that is because Sony and Marvel have a contract where they're basically borrowing the character. And so they can make future Spider-Man movies with Spider-Man, but none of the characters because they don't remember him.
01:19:50
Speaker
And it's things like that, that kind of spoils the whole thing for you.
George Lucas' Intent and Political Elements in Star Wars
01:19:54
Speaker
It's like, ooh. Dusty, you were on a slippery slope. I know. I don't know. It's just going into like a villain era. I can see it happening. Yeah. Don't give in. Yeah. Well, it's just hard to look at these things and be like, I don't know, because like the prequels, you look at the
01:20:14
Speaker
how they're not great. And it's not because it's not because George Lucas was just trying to make money off of Star Wars. You know what I mean? He's still his artistic intent behind it. But anyways, part they digress. Yeah, you can watch my video about it. It's probably two hours long. Oh, no. Episode seven, episode seven. I'm sorry.
01:20:39
Speaker
This is Mon Mothma's scene. We finally see Mon Mothma in the flesh. And this is Hera's trial. She has to answer for everything that happened. And C. Thirbyo comes in on behalf of Leia Organa, a beautiful use of the character and including the main trio in this story without
01:21:01
Speaker
doing unethical things. You know, I appreciated that. And I really liked this scene because I didn't get to touch on this, but Scotty, you said you really liked the political stuff in Star Wars.
01:21:17
Speaker
fully agree, 100% agree. It's just nice to see this argument and this bickering, especially because this is all a reaction to the sequel trilogy and having to explain.
01:21:34
Speaker
why the empire basically came back. And you see how incompetent the republic is for that reason. I feel like it's taking a shitty situation and turning it into something all right.
Ahsoka's Arrival and Thrawn's Strategy
01:21:46
Speaker
But then the rest of the episode is just kind of Ahsoka Azura. Oh, this is when Ahsoka finally arrives. Yeah, she arrives in the galaxy and they team up and they're just all kind of fighting. It's really a little episode. I mean,
01:22:05
Speaker
There's some good to it. We see Thrawn strategizing and trying to combat her to keep her from coming. The poor Pergill get bombed because of the minefield. That was the poor Pergill. And then it was cool seeing Ahsoka
01:22:22
Speaker
show off some of the, and I assume, her piloting skills that she would have learned from her time with Anakin. Like, that was cool to see her. And that was kind of one of the things I was excited about. I was like, Ooh, Ahsoka's getting her own ship. So we're actually going to see her like, be a pilot, which
01:22:38
Speaker
plenty of people said that Anakin was like one of the best pilots in the galaxy and you know he did some crazy shit and that gets brought up in this episode too so it's oh it's like some of those gripes y'all had with Shadow Warrior like it was it was done well coming back and you know paying homage to the Clone Wars kind of stuff in those scenes and it kind of did the same for Thrawn being like look at Thrawn he's a tactician
01:23:02
Speaker
Like if you watch our Thrawn PowerPoint episode, you'll know that Thrawn was very much a tactician and a very skilled person. That's one of my gripes with Thrawn in this series is it feels like a, I don't want to call Dave Filoni dumb, but for lack of a better term, it feels like a dumb man's version of Grand Admiral Thrawn, where Grand Admiral Thrawn is tactical
01:23:32
Speaker
But if you were to really boil it down to its simplest form of what Thrawn does, a lot of the times it does boil down to
01:23:42
Speaker
The thing that you thought was going against his plan was actually his plan all along. That was kind of dumb. And it was so on the nose, where it's like, was it really your plan all along, Thrawn, to have Ahsoka show up? Because I feel like there was parts of this where you were directly saying the exact opposite. And you all seemed like you were shitting your pants about this loose thread. Right.
Pacing and Character Development Critique
01:24:09
Speaker
Well, Crystal, we've talked a lot. What are your thoughts on the episode? I did really like when they were flying through the boneyard. Oh yeah.
01:24:24
Speaker
That was cool. I think there was like a lot of cool moments and I think you and I were talking about this Scotty about how this episode was very like spooky. You know, we got a lot of like alluding to like the zombies and are they carrying caskets? Who's in the caskets? We also got, this is where Ahsoka and Balan fought, right? The second time, yeah.
01:24:49
Speaker
Yeah, that was pretty cool. And then Shin gets left behind. I think I wish I had more of them as well, like more of their story and more like character develop between them. I did really like the reunion between Ahsoka and Ezra in this one. It felt very like real to me. Um, but I don't know. I think, I think I liked this one a little bit more, maybe like B tier for me. Okay.
01:25:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think my thing is it felt like and we'll definitely talk about this with the next episode. It felt like we were really rushing to get to the end here, which is a little weird because like the first four episodes was really stretching to get started. And then we're just going to go super quick and we're just going to get it over with where it's like right. Bailin skull and Ahsoka's fight was really cool, but it feels like it just ends randomly where it's like
01:25:46
Speaker
So cause like, well, I don't have to kill you. I'm like, I mean, yeah, I guess not because she was supposed to show up in sequels, I presume, but that may not happen. And so I just, I thought that moment, I thought it kind of should hurt growth.
01:26:02
Speaker
from what she learned. Because before she was just going at him with force and now she was like, I don't even need to waste my time fighting you because you're not the issue. Right. But I mean, that comes after five minutes of her fighting him. You know what I mean? So it's like.
01:26:20
Speaker
It just felt out of left field and then like putting in context what happens in the next episode where we see Bailin and Shin, they split apart in this episode and you're like, ooh, that's interesting. What is Bailin's entire plan? Because so far he seems like he was pretty caring for his apprentice and now he's just like, you're kind of dumping her and you're like, yeah, what is that? Because that could be cool. Like that that does come out of left field, but you can make that work.
01:26:50
Speaker
But in my opinion, they didn't make it work because as we know, we never get any explanation for what Bayland School is actually doing.
01:26:59
Speaker
I think I think it relates to the title dreams and madness. Like I think he's getting so enveloped and whatever he's seeking that he's getting like tunnel vision for it. And that's why he's like Shin, this isn't your path. But I feel like that's also him being a little caring in the sense of like, I know you don't care about this. I know this is not what you want. Did I kind of feel like he dumped her because he was like, I got to go do what I need to do. Yeah.
01:27:25
Speaker
Unfortunately, we need more context with them because we don't know. They could have been at the point where this was the end of her training, essentially, and she learned everything she needed to know.
01:27:33
Speaker
Well, that's the thing is we don't know. And until we do know, I can't look at this and be like, that was really great for the Ahsoka series. That's the thing is when I look at the entire Mandoverse at the end, I could very well look at Book of Boba Fett, my least favorite Star Wars thing ever, and be like, in the context of this entire Mandoverse thing, it worked. It was fine. But as for the Ahsoka show on its own,
01:27:59
Speaker
I'm just like, I don't think that serves the story because when it comes when everything's said and done, I don't feel like I even know why Balan and Shin were there in the first place. I mean, technically, we know that they were hired by Morgan Ellsbyth, but we also know.
01:28:21
Speaker
Oh, yeah. We're probably not going to talk about her until the next episode when she dies. So unfortunate. I know. It was the will of the force. It was the will of the force. That's why. That's why they ended up there. Well, that's the thing is I just want to know more like to me, to me, just knowing that they were hired, but then keeping like
01:28:47
Speaker
Continuing to allude to the fact that they have bigger stakes in this and they have more that they want to do here It just doesn't please me. But again, once the movie comes out I could look at this and be like Dave Filoni is a fucking genius and I just needed to shut up and wait So well, that's
Rushed Finale and Emotional Weights
01:29:03
Speaker
the issue too. We're not ranking the mandovers. We're just ranking the show exactly. Yeah Where would you make it I'm a crystal beats here
01:29:16
Speaker
um yeah yeah i would say c tier almost maybe even like not another c maybe in front of master and apprentice you're right for the sake of not having more c tier we'll just go with dt if it's higher than master and apprentice then what does it really matter anyways
01:29:39
Speaker
All right, the finale, the Jedi, the witch, and the warlord. Obviously, this is where everything wraps up. It wraps up, kind of.
01:29:56
Speaker
To me, the ending just felt very rushed. We're just, like I said, we're just rushing to the finish line. Morgan Elspeth gets these new powers in the beginning. Super cool. We see her get the sword of, what's it called? The sword of Talzin. Yeah. And that's really cool. And you see her kind of like earn that and it's fun and cool. And then she like dies. Poor thing.
01:30:22
Speaker
I know. They really underutilized her. I feel like they didn't know what to do with her. She sat and waited. Yeah. And she's, I don't know. And she's like a real martial artist too. And you can tell them the way that she moves and she fights. And I can't believe they gave her the sword in the same episode that she died. It was just so like, why didn't they give that to her a few episodes ago? Yeah. Like when she got them there. Right. Like.
01:30:51
Speaker
I will say one thing she does great in the episode, not only is her and Ahsoka's fight great, but she
01:30:59
Speaker
like fucks up one of Ahsoka's lightsabers. So Girly is not dual wielding anymore. She gets a hidden. So at least we got that. But yeah, I was super bummed because I was, I mean, we talked about it. I love the Night Sister shit. This episode gave us Night Sister lore, like new Night Sister lore with like the Blade of Talzin. It's like this thing. It was just cool because it related back to the Clone Wars and
01:31:26
Speaker
She really didn't need to die either I think they only killed her because someone had to die and they weren't gonna kill someone from like the main cast They just killed her. I know
01:31:37
Speaker
They could have killed Shin. I like her. I would have been. Or Ezra or Sabine or Ahsoka. Just like the one going to die in season one, silly. She's going to die in the movie. You know, what's so funny is when Ahsoka ended and we saw Sabine and Ahsoka because they're stranded on the planet or the galaxy, Pridia, they're
01:32:05
Speaker
stuck there. And Ahsoka says something like, it's time to move on. And I was like, oh, it's like, is this, are we wrapping up Ahsoka's character here? And I remember this is, this is the Mandoverse, this is Dapling's character. And I don't know for me,
01:32:24
Speaker
I know, I know Dave Velloni is not going to kill her probably ever. So I was like, in my mind, I was like, is this, is this the compromise? Because I'm willing to just be like, yeah, Ahsoka is in another planet and she's never coming back. But. Oh God, I hope not. Jesus Christ. That's not going to happen. You know, damn well, that's not going to happen. And you know, it's going to have her Gandalf moment in the movie. And what's going to suck is they're either going to.
01:32:52
Speaker
they're either going to resolve the fact that she's stranded within five minutes of whatever next project or they're going to drag it out for another full season. There's not going to be anything in between. They're going to, because like I said, I feel like the entire point of this first season is just getting live action Mandalorian fans and animated Rebels fans onto the same page. And now we can do all the things that they fully wanted to do
01:33:19
Speaker
with the original series of finding these people in a new distant galaxy and exploring the new distant galaxy and seeing Ahsoka and Sabine train and all that. We can get to a point where
Thrawn's Motives and Series Speculations
01:33:32
Speaker
we can basically tell the story that Dave when he wanted to tell beforehand, but a more compromised version that everyone's on the same page now. And so I don't like this finale. Oh, I do.
01:33:48
Speaker
I'll drink a D tier. Okay, as much as I hate Ezra's blue lightsaber. That was a great moment. Yeah. He gets his new lightsaber to honor his master who we all know I hate. No, I'm just, we know I don't hate.
01:34:07
Speaker
go watch my green lightsaber video if you want to hear how I feel about the blue saber. I'm not gonna say nothing else. I think that's a really great moment. We get some more growth with Ahsoka and Sabine. They're finally like trusting each other officially.
01:34:24
Speaker
Um, I think that, and we've talked about this before, but the scene of them galloping on the howlers to the fortress, I think that scene looks amazing. I know you said the show looks like shit, Austin, but I think that scene, like the special effects of everything looks great.
01:34:41
Speaker
It's a good scene. Well, that's the thing is the best shots of a soaker are the fully CGI shots. Like they're not. Oh, you mean when I thought you meant when she is CGI, I was like, OK, no, no, no, no. Like when.
01:34:56
Speaker
went like the pergol shots, the shots of the pergol look like they're from a 400 million dollar movie. And then you see like just the shots of them on the ground. It's not as great. That's one of those where and yes, the in multiple shots of that scene, Ahsoka, Ezra and Sabine are CGI models because they can't do that in real life. And I think it looks great.
01:35:23
Speaker
I thought there were some really good moments in this episode, but I have to agree with Austin about how it really just felt like a setup to something else. It didn't really feel like a contained ending, and the ending was so bittersweet. I did like that Sabine kind of sacrificed her being with Ezra so Ezra could go home.
01:35:47
Speaker
not maybe sad is not the right word, but like devastating. It was like a devastating moment, I would say. But the choreography was so like bad to me. I really liked seeing zombies. I thought the zombies were cool. But it just was so just like,
01:36:06
Speaker
Are we done? Like, let's get I don't know, maybe there wasn't enough buildup leading up to them. Or maybe the fighting wasn't good. Or I don't know. It felt like off to me. I surprisingly didn't mind it because you're talking when it was Ezra Sabine and Ahsoka against the stormtroopers and then zombies or nighttroopers, right? Yeah, nighttroopers. Yeah, like people complained about that. But it didn't bother me. Just like
01:36:33
Speaker
Huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh.
01:37:02
Speaker
But I thought Ezra's choreography was very like Ezra. He's doing all this flip or not flipping, but like leaning and spinning and.
01:37:11
Speaker
Yeah. To me, that fight scene, it felt just like they were just trying to fill the runtime because these are highly trained warriors. And so I'm sure that they would understand that fighting these zombies, they're fighting these troopers that they just all took out and killed. They all just stood back up and came back to life. So what's the point of fighting them? They're going to come back to life. Run. But instead, they're sitting there.
01:37:39
Speaker
fighting with them because we need to have action scenes within the show.
01:37:45
Speaker
Yeah. And it was cool cause like they all had like, they're all doing their own thing, but it just felt like, Oh, look at, here they are. Instead of like a well more like put together scene, I guess. Um, the Morgan Elspeth versus Ahsoka was pretty cool. It was cool seeing Sabine show up cause I didn't think that she was going to, I was kind of shocked about that. Um, and yeah, the ending was very like,
01:38:12
Speaker
It felt like it was trying to do a lot. And I just don't know if I liked it. I did like that it was kind of like a sad ending, but I don't know if I liked it. Yeah, it was somber. But I don't know. It's just like.
01:38:25
Speaker
Again, another Marvel reference that y'all aren't going to know nothing about. But in Infinity War, there's two Avengers movies, Infinity War and Endgame, where Infinity War at the end of the movie, they all turn to dust, right? Or half the characters turn to dust. You got like Spider-Man, you know, Bucky Barnes, characters you care about that literally die at the end of this movie. And wow.
01:38:52
Speaker
then it but it leaves you on that cliffhanger and then in the next movie everything gets resolved but there was a year in between movies and at the end of infinity war it didn't feel like you didn't get enough like the movie ending on that note even though it was still technically set up for another movie
01:39:11
Speaker
It didn't it still felt impactful because you actually knew the context of what was going on. You understood that these characters died because of the entire movie where Thanos is his entire mission is to make that happen. And so it's it's basically like if that movie came out and we never knew why they died until the next movie. And that's what this is here, where it's like it's a somber ending, but we don't really know why. Like, you know, we don't.
01:39:40
Speaker
We don't know anything. I think we know why. Why? Grand Admiral Thrawn is the big thing and he gets to the new galaxy and we know he gets there. We have no idea what he's going to unleash when he gets there. And then poor Soka and Sabine are stuck. They went to save Ezra. Well, they saved Ezra, but they can't be there to celebrate him returning with him.
01:40:04
Speaker
Okay, so so what's the threat? Because like you said, we don't know. Okay, and why? What's he going back to the what? What? Why does he want to go back to the main galaxy? What's what's his whole thing? This is the argument. This is the like Mando verse versus show argument, because like Mando season three, Captain Pelion was talking about Thrawn's return. Well, but in the context of the show,
01:40:32
Speaker
Well, we get we get the controversial line of long with the Empire so right well, that's why I bring up infinity war in endgame because It's like Thrawn with Thanos, right?
01:40:47
Speaker
When he wins in the end, we understand why he won and what his entire plan was and what he set out to do. With Thrawn, we don't know why he won, because for all the people that read the books, I almost said all of us. I sat through a PowerPoint. For those people who are caught up in that, what
01:41:08
Speaker
their understanding of why Thawne wants to go back to the main galaxy is because of the Chiss Ascendancy and finding an ally for the Chiss Ascendancy to fight the Grisk and whatnot. Yeah, that's not a threat to the main galaxy. That's not a threat.
01:41:25
Speaker
And I can't really feel sad about Ahsoka and Sabine because it's like they're just going to find a way to go get them. You know what I mean? If Morgan Elspeth and this low funded little project where they're having to hire duct tape together, you know, inquisitors that are filled with green smoke, they're able to build an entire contraption that sends them to a new galaxy
01:41:53
Speaker
or Ezra Ezra's like friends with the purgels. You know what I mean? Like it's I can't be sad about it. And then the thing that is somber is the fact that Thrawn returns. But it's like, oh, what's the purpose of Thrawn returning? For a movie. But can we also point out that the big thing that's set up in there is that there's no way for a soak in Sabine to get back.
01:42:18
Speaker
Yes, we know they'll probably find a way back, but that's like the big thing that's set up in the episode is like, if you're not on the Eye of Sion, you're stuck. Like this was the ticket off the planet and the purgels go to Peridia to die. They don't go there as a pit stop and then go back. Right. But I mean, all it took was Ahsoka to speak to these purgels and we've never had an established connection with Ahsoka and animals before.
01:42:45
Speaker
Don't forget Ahsoka's psychometry that's never happened before. I know, oh my gosh. But now we know.
Overall Critique and Future Potential
01:42:52
Speaker
She can probably force heal now, like. She learned it when she was, when her and the daughter touched mines, she learned how to die for healing the forest. She just didn't know. She just didn't know until now. She had to die first, and then not die.
01:43:11
Speaker
Crystal, where do you think it should go? Because I know we know what Austin said. Have you said what you think? I don't think so. I think I would put it on D tier just because I felt like I felt like it wasn't a very good ending for the show. Like I feel like it left us like it wasn't like a good ending, basically. But it's not. That's why. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why. Oh, I don't want to compromise to C tier again.
01:43:41
Speaker
Oh, wait, where were you going to put it? I liked the finale a lot. You can't read every episode that you cry in S tier. Hey, I only cried at the end. But I like the action scenes a lot. I liked Ahsoka, Sabine, and Ezra working together. We haven't touched on it. Sabine is in the force. I could take it or leave it. I was like, do me the favor, pull it, give me the push. I don't need both. Because as Hu Yang said, Shane got no power.
01:44:10
Speaker
She wouldn't have been inducted into the Jedi. They would have turned her away. I'm like, now you can push Ezra, but I'm not going to let that ruin the episode for me. Whatever. Well, I have a question for you, Scottie. If there had to be one episode that was like the worst one, which one would it be? I'm going to refer back to my rank. Toil in trouble.
01:44:37
Speaker
Oh, interesting. I thought you were going to say this episode. No, I like this episode a lot. I put this episode in like A or B. I had a lot of fun with it. And I loved that. See, so y'all argued about Shadow Warrior and Anakin's usage in that. What did you think of Anakin's usage in this episode? Because we liked his tease. We liked him at the end of episode four. Y'all didn't like him in five.
01:45:06
Speaker
I think he was utilized again good in this episode, but I want to hear what y'all think from both of you. I thought I thought he was good. Like I thought he was fine, but I think that's something that because I have the whole context of.
01:45:20
Speaker
what Anakin and Ahsoka have gone through to see him at the end there, being proud of her. It's a sign that she's in the right place, the fact that Anakin and Morai are there. It's a sign that she's
01:45:36
Speaker
in the right place and you know what fuck it I think it was great I think it was a great use of Anakin because it's using it's using
Baelin's Motives and Mortis Gods
01:45:44
Speaker
the knowledge of the audience that we've had in the past that even even in this show Anakin and Ahsoka it's established at their master and apprentice it's using that relationship and also the fact that Anakin's a ghost so he's kind of a being that like knows more than the average human so like
01:45:47
Speaker
-
01:46:02
Speaker
that shows visually that Ahsoka's in the right place. It's not something that everybody's gonna pick up on. It's not something that they're shoving right in your face that this is where Ahsoka needs to be. But it's one of those things where if you're looking at the details, so I actually think that that was great. Crystal? I thought it was just okay.
01:46:31
Speaker
Anyway, I hear what you're saying, Austin. You're kind of swaying me there, but I don't know. I thought it was okay. Like, okay, there's Anakin again. Right. That's how I felt about it. I think it would have hit if y'all weren't so tainted by Shadow Warrior. You know what? You might be right. If that was the only Anakin.
01:46:54
Speaker
Yeah, this this last sequence had like so much Return of the Jedi themes to as well. So that was kind of cool. We didn't even talk about like, bailing going to like, the statues, the mortise gods and Shin doing her little
01:47:12
Speaker
We could even talk about those. I think that's the other thing is there's so much jam packed into these episodes and it kind of just like went nowhere. Yeah. But yeah. It's almost like we miss filler. Yeah. Yeah. I love filler. I'm an animator. I guess fun, fun filler that's added for like just to where, yeah, it's not the main mission, but we get to spend more time with the characters. Because I think y'all talked about the action scene in this almost felt like they're just filling the time.
01:47:42
Speaker
We weren't really spending time with the characters, getting to almost hang out with them more and learn more about them. I mean, that's been, I think, all of our biggest complaints and lots of people about Balan and Shin. It's just we wanted more time with them.
01:47:55
Speaker
I don't even know where I'm going with this point, but yeah, I liked the Mortis Gods thing, but it kind of sucks. Taking Ray Stevenson's passing out of the context, just the fact that we don't even know what he wants. He's going maybe something to do with the Mortis Gods, but we don't know what, we don't know if the Mortis Gods are there.
01:48:24
Speaker
yeah i mean the father should be dead at this point so right and it it kind of goes against what we understand of the the mortis gods anyways where it's like
01:48:35
Speaker
How the fuck does Baelin Skoll know about the Mortis Gods? Because even Anakin and Ahsoka, who have literally met the Mortis Gods, don't know about the Mortis Gods, so... Well, he bought the stones at Luthin Rail's shop on Coruscant. Oh, there you go. Now we're tying Andor to the Mandevoirs. Right. God. Wait, where did you rank this one, Austin? Because Scotty said A or B, and I said D. Oh, wow.
01:49:04
Speaker
Yeah, D tier. I just put it in fucking D because I don't want another one in C. I'm not gonna fight with really. I did. It's I put toil and trouble in deep before I put this one in D. But we're gonna make we all we all made a little like
01:49:29
Speaker
Compromise where where we were giving more because like you see Go ahead say it one thing crystal crystal put this one in
Series Finale Reflections and Audience Engagement
01:49:39
Speaker
s tier. What does it even say fall fallen Jedi? Crystal crystal did not agree with s tier even though we agreed with that so she chose to just say fuck her opinion put it in s tier so I
01:49:54
Speaker
You could say fuck your opinion and we'll put it in D tier. And the fuck you to me is that we have Shadow Warrior anywhere above E.
01:50:05
Speaker
Right. I really thought that I was going to fight for all these to be a lot lower. But I think in my head, they're all a lot lower. Right. Well, it's our combined ranking. Right. Right. I also think there's a large part of it is like I know for the theatrics, we like to act like we fucking hate each other doing these. I love all of you, but I'm still going to I'm still going to fight for my man. Well, we're pretending.
01:50:37
Speaker
Well, like, to be honest, it's nice to hear people who enjoy what you didn't enjoy why they enjoyed it. Because at that point, it's not really easy for me to be like, well, fuck you, you know, like, you enjoyed it. And what really is like, I could tell you why I don't think that
01:50:58
Speaker
why why I don't enjoy it or why I don't think people should enjoy it but you know at the end of the day it it's nice to hear and it opens my eyes a bit more where I feel like before this episode I was looking at Ahsoka a little more negatively so
01:51:14
Speaker
uh i feel like i'm looking at it at maybe like one percent of a uh a brighter light here so i mean this doesn't match my ranking at all there's episodes that i ranked higher on here just by talking it out with y'all and like focusing on what is good and what i don't like is or like what i think is objectively good what we feel is not as objectively good and realizing that some of those good moments when they hit they hit
01:51:41
Speaker
and some of those moments that are supposed to hit like y'all talked about in Shadow Warrior like yeah I didn't know what Ahsoka learned at the end of the day I cried my fucking eyes out the whole time but that wasn't because I was like oh my god Anakin and Ahsoka are having this crazy breakthrough I was like it's the Clone Wars and I love it so yeah it was also good like relationship building but at the end I was still like
01:52:05
Speaker
I don't I don't know what she learned. Right. Good for her. Good for her. Yep. Happy for her. Yeah, I ranked some of these higher than I expected. These beauty tears. I'm pretty happy with where those are, you know, like, I didn't think that, you know, I feel like a changed woman. Good. You and I both.
01:52:32
Speaker
Well, then that means that this was a very useful episode of This Is The Way Seekers. So thank you all so much for tuning in and thank you to our guest, Crystal Kyber, for joining with us. And hopefully you don't hate us after this whole thing.
01:52:49
Speaker
You're still my bestie. Yes. We're all creators. You know, we got shit to promote and it's in the description. So make sure to check all that out and make sure to leave reviews and likes and all the things that feed our egos. Thank you so much. See you next time with another episode of This Is The Way Seekers. Happy holidays. May the force be with you.