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Root - Ep 95
31 Plays11 days ago
James gives Allison an exhaustive refresher on bird law. The excellent tabletop board game is a secondary topic.
Check out Allison online: twitch.tv/pikapeww
Music is "Fork and Spoon" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
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Transcript
00:00:05
Speaker
All right.
Introduction and Gaming Nostalgia
00:00:07
Speaker
Intro time. Actually, i I think you just did it. i think that's the intro. I think I can just start talking about the game. Hell yeah. I was trying to dime it to where I said that at the exact moment you spoke.
00:00:20
Speaker
i did it. You got pretty close. I nailed it. Yeah. yeah i don't I can't imagine how you could have done better. hey um Anyway, I'm not talking about, i don't think there's a game called Fart that I'd be interested in talking about. There definitely is a game called Fart. There is, but if you wanted a game to check out that is ah about farting and other gross things, check out a Super Nintendo, no, it was a Sega Genesis game called Boogerman.
00:00:50
Speaker
It's stupid. It's awful. It's vile. It's hilarious. um That sounds rancid. It reminds me of the booger boy from Captain Underpants who is the grossest thing still I've seen in an illustrated kid's property to this day. It's pretty nasty. um I'm going to throw up just thinking about it.
00:01:10
Speaker
I'll do an episode on Booger Man at some point. If you do, that'll be the that'll be the day I quit the show. I don be room with you i don't think that it is a game that game that I would go out of my way to recommend to people. like If you like fart humor, then hell yeah. If you don't, then don't play Booger Man.
00:01:28
Speaker
is just a dress in superhero spandex, and but he does like pick it's the pick and flick adventure. um That's what called.
00:01:40
Speaker
It's Boogerman colon the pick and flick adventure. Sometimes I think video games might have been a mistake.
Current State of Video Games
00:01:47
Speaker
Well, that one was for the Sega Genesis, so like it's been a minute. It's old. The video games have gotten better? They've gotten more.
00:01:56
Speaker
Dude, okay, so I keep... ah This is fully off-topic. Sorry to fully derail the episode, like the second we intro, but I keep getting so frustrated with people with the... ah like the video games are so buggy right now. Like what they used to just release a finished video game and you just have it.
00:02:14
Speaker
And then I keep seeing these tech talks of like old, uh, elder scrolls games, like oblivion and Morrowind. I'm like, yeah, they, video games used to be fully polished and done whenever they came out. Right.
00:02:26
Speaker
then like see him, like talk to a person, they like morph into being. And then the second the conversation ends, they like pop off into the sky. like, okay, cool. Um,
00:02:38
Speaker
No. Interesting, but that's what finished looks like. Yeah, right? Polished. Finished. No bugs. but Video games are so buggy nowadays. They'd never make that in the past. They would have finished a video game and just handed it in to you. No DLC.
00:02:51
Speaker
Oh my god, that's not how it was at all. Yeah. That's just simply not. accurate I mean, they have got more complicated. they've They've got they've ballooned in like complexity and budget and things like that. But that's just a natural part of like how that process works. It doesn't mean that theyre the quality has dropped. It just means things have changed and you're not 12 anymore. Yeah, I don't think cyberpunk was really that bad anymore.
Board Games Discussion
00:03:17
Speaker
yeah continuing on sorry for the derailment two seconds of the episode this is actually perfect because this is um this is proving my point that video games were a complete mistake and should never have happened so we're going back to board games today oh Yeah, it's it's been a little bit longer than I'd like to admit since I think I've talked about um pen and paper or like a board game, anything that's not video-ish.
00:03:47
Speaker
i think it's been at least two, maybe three days. At least. At least. I have truly no idea. I'd say that again. it's it We're doing this block after having been gone for like and um month least um a month, like month and a half. Month and a half Yeah, it's been a minute. Yeah, I have no recollection of what we talked about most recently, but I think it's still fair to say I don't talk about board games as much as others and as much as I'd like to.
00:04:18
Speaker
And that's a shame because this one is terrific. um i I had a shame. Yeah, I'm sure that's also a name for a board game, but that's not what we're talking about.
00:04:30
Speaker
That's what you said. Well, listen. Listen, like language is a fickle thing, isn't it? It is. It's so fun to use to my advantage and to other people's dismay.
00:04:42
Speaker
ah
00:04:45
Speaker
weaponized words absolutely um but today yes i would love it my god sorry i'm not saying you're wrong no the the oh my god was just the the despair of like yeah no the ah like yeah ah God, okay, sorry, I'll zip my lip now, we're good. No, no, you're perfectly fine, there's actually, i hate to say it, but we're gonna get into a little bit of politics, but it's gonna be bird politics. Oh, bird law.
00:05:19
Speaker
And yes, exactly, Charlothan Day himself is gonna come teach us about bird law.
Exploring Root: An Overview
00:05:24
Speaker
That's not a name. Charlothan. Jamethy? ja yeah exactly that's that's your true name right oh it's jameson as everyone so so uh hilariously and and so tongue-in-cheek will will tell me and say i i bet you've never heard that before i'm i'm sure i'm the first person to think of that and say it to you to them i say you're right um jimbo let's get this on yeah
00:05:53
Speaker
Exactly. we are. It's going to be there's going some bird law. There's going some cat law. There's going to be some just just little guy running around law. I'm talking about root.
00:06:05
Speaker
There's really hoping you would say mousetrap. no Although i would love to talk about mousetrap for a little bit, but I want to talk about root more. And that should tell you how much I want to talk about root because mousetrap just fascinating.
00:06:22
Speaker
It existed for sure. um It's fascinating, not in a good way necessarily, but in fascinating way. Definitely had the most fun board game pieces to play with.
00:06:33
Speaker
Exactly. Don't know how the game functioned at all. um Root, though. Yes. I also don't know how that functions. That's kind of the premise of this show. Yes, exactly. Well, good news. You've got someone who desperately wants to play it with another person and tell them all about it.
00:06:49
Speaker
um It is it it was made back in 2018 and i just got around to checking it out. Now, I actually was just gifted it for Christmas. It was a very, very nice gift and I got a chance to play it and it is an absolute blast.
00:07:05
Speaker
um I'm going to say these words and then I'm going to explain like it's not going to hard to understand what they mean but yeahre I'm going to say it and people's eyes are going to glaze over it's an asymmetric strategy war game board game um but I promise that's that's a thousand times more interesting than it sounds so Warhammer ah Dead by Daylight I wouldn't absolutely in that it is nothing like either of those things.
00:07:33
Speaker
Nice. No, one of those is asymmetrical. One of those is a war game. That's all I got. zach If you, if you draw a midpoint between those, you are actually still nowhere close. Yeah. Not, not even a little Sick, sick, sick, sick.
00:07:48
Speaker
um No, it's um it's wonderful. It's actually a i would I would liken it more to risk
Root's Gameplay Mechanics
00:07:54
Speaker
than anything like that. When I say war game, I'm talking talking mainly about like your risk type games, but the ones that don't suck um because... and i'll I'll get into my beef with risk a little bit.
00:08:06
Speaker
Exactly. um i'm I'm sure everyone's got a horror story about it, but it is ah it's a it's a much more delightful, ah kind of lighthearted in some aspects, at least a little bit more whimsical game about essentially um asymmetrical risk like. um ah city control like you've got troops and things kind of a ah a proper war game with units and things um but you are woodland animals you're little cute ah cartoon cats and mice and birds and things um and it's an absolute blast um it was now you you've heard you heard me practicing this ah off but but before the mics were hot it was designed by you perform
00:08:56
Speaker
It was designed by Cole Huarla. Huarla. Huarla. Well, it's not, there's not as so much like Huarla. Huarla. There's like a little bit of a there's Huarla.
00:09:12
Speaker
Huarla. Huarla. It's designed by Cole. Huarla. i Yeah, W-E-H-R-L-E.
00:09:23
Speaker
Feel terrible because I cannot pronounce a word that's not ah directly like steeped in like ah Americanized spellings. So sorry about it, Cole.
00:09:34
Speaker
you do you You're doing the Lord's work out there. um And i'll I'll dig into that. But... um designed by Cole, um along with some beautiful, like, charming and just, like, heartwarming illustrations ah by Kyle Farren, which I think is a very, like, when you when you think about this game, you're going to think about the artwork, not necessarily because it's, like, critical to the gameplay or anything, but it's it's very unique and ah notable. Like, it it has a unique style to it where you look at it and you see, okay, this is...
00:10:05
Speaker
this is a particular flavor that you're not going to get elsewhere oh i'm looking at it now the art style is very um kind of hilda if you've seen it and some of it feels very like if hilda met secrets of nim or like a hobbit Yeah, you're you're getting like a little bit of storybook, but not like children's children's story, but like a little more detail than that. But like, yeah, like fantasy wooded, like woodland, um like kind of medieval um swords and but like little, you know, cute animals.
00:10:47
Speaker
um a little bit of a what oh what's that one Redwall one of the ones where the the character is um it's mice but it's like a war fantasy novel I don't know I got is secrets in them dude yeah it's it's one of those but um it's it's very much like that um the the publishing company in this case ah later games I believe leader L-E-D-E-R um But this this game, i mentioned it came out in 2018.
00:11:19
Speaker
It won tons of awards in 2018 and 19. um it's a It's a bigger deal than I really ever even realized. I knew it was a big deal. I have some friends who are much more tapped into the board game space than I am, and they would not shut up about it.
00:11:35
Speaker
um And I understand now why. It's ah it's a fantastic game. it's It's done very well for itself. There are all kinds of add-ons for it.
00:11:46
Speaker
There are spinoffs of it that have done incredibly well. There's one in particular i'm very interested to try now. In fact, it's a ah it's a tabletop role-playing game ah using the Powered by the Apocalypse engine, which I know I've talked about before. um Monster of the Week and and so on and so forth.
00:12:03
Speaker
It uses the same bones as that, and you play as like the a kind of character that that shows up in this game that I'll cover in a little bit. um But that there's there's all kinds of extra stuff going on there.
00:12:16
Speaker
um And Cole has gone on to make other like pretty well established like smash hits in the board game scene, mainly Oath and ah much more recently Arx come to mind.
00:12:28
Speaker
um Oath, I believe, being like ah a legacy strategy game and Arx being a like more sci fi bent game. but um I believe they all have the same artist as well. Kyle, fer i could I could be mistaken, but I know arcs at least does.
00:12:43
Speaker
um So this is kind of a like this. This is a thing. Now there's a group of like this, this design with this illustration and this philosophy of like how a board game works and the, the asymmetric nature of it um has become, it's like carved out a pretty big space for itself.
00:13:04
Speaker
um And it's it absolutely deserves it. um And one thing that I thought was very interesting as well was that there are digital versions of of this game very easily available. It's on Steam. It's on Google Play. I'm fairly certain it's on the Switch as well.
00:13:21
Speaker
It may also be on the the Apple App Store. I don't think so, though. I couldn't find it when I was looking it up. Yeah. But they are less expensive than the the physical version, of course, because you're not having to like um yeah like mold ah a bunch of plastic, car ah get a bunch of pieces together, print a bunch of cards, things like that. yeah um And it's it's ah it's a blast there as well. But the the physical board game, I would encourage you to play at least once because there's a lot of like the the tactility of it that helps me things make a lot more sense. Yeah.
00:13:54
Speaker
It does look really cute. I'm looking at like pictures of it, and it looks stylistically really cool. i like oh yeah i like the little card, the like little character cards you get. Have your little like person on them.
00:14:07
Speaker
yeah every every card has a little like scene going on, and the the the cards are another very interesting aspect of the gameplay. um But kind of to to lay the groundwork here, as I mentioned, you're kind of playing Risk with woodland animals,
00:14:23
Speaker
um simplified in the parts where it can be simplified but more interestingly it's made more complicated but in ways that still track ways that make sense and in different ways for every player um the the the main idea is that you are in this i believe the entire board is the forest or something it's it's the woods or something like that yeah um And there are about a dozen clearings in there, which are kind of like in risk, they would be the different countries or in other games, they'd be like the different cities.
00:14:59
Speaker
um And they have the the pads going between them, which are like the trade routes or the the routes where your your troops can move and things like that. um And they're they're connected in a ah couple different ways.
00:15:10
Speaker
And you have um you have troops that you can gather and place on the board. you have Every clearing has like one or two, unless you're playing with more ah more people, you you you have ah one or two spots ah on each clearing where you can place a building.
00:15:26
Speaker
um Buildings will have different effects for different people, but you you have this this stuff that you can do in a clearing that helps you. youre Basically, the the main idea is you want to gather troops troops go win the war fight battles um yeah and get to 30 victory points um there's there's a tracker where everyone has their own little counter of everyone starts at zero they work their way up to 30 but that's where the similarities really end because the way each different player gets to 30 is different
00:15:59
Speaker
um I believe I've talked about um asymmetric games before almost entirely in the through the lens of like most of the players are playing the game this way and then there's one player who's playing the game kind of against them or at least tangential to them.
00:16:20
Speaker
That's usually how I'm used to it. That's why I was like Dead by Daylight was the first thing that popped in my head. is like Exactly. That's usually how asymmetrical games are played. It's like everyone v. one person.
00:16:32
Speaker
Yes. um Dead by Daylight, very much like that. Yeah, you've got the one bad guy and everyone else is playing against them. And so the the good guys and the bad guy, they're fundamentally different, but there's one versus several.
00:16:46
Speaker
um ah Betrayal I know is another one i don't believe we've actually talked about that because we've both played it and never circled back around to it but that's a similar setup where everyone plays the same at first and then something happens where one of them becomes different but everyone else is still kind of the same um This is the best example I can think of and the only one I can think of in recent memory where asymmetric in this case means every different player is playing differently. um And it still manages to be like balanced and you have coherent strategy and you can you can kind of understand what everyone's going for.
00:17:25
Speaker
And it's not so much like, oh, if you play this one faction, you're going to win, but it's going to be fundamentally different. But yeah there's enough of the same basic rules and everyone's trying to get to 30 victory points that it's still going to make sense.
00:17:39
Speaker
um Yeah. And it's it's it's a little bit difficult Yeah. for people who like board games like strategy games like like this kind of flavor um if they're not willing to to dig into a game where they're gonna have their own set of rules and no one's really gonna be able to like fact check stuff for them because they're gonna have a different set of rules like every person is gonna be different so it's yeah it it asks a little bit of like
00:18:11
Speaker
understanding and like setting yourself to like making sure you've got your specific factions rules down. Right. But they're, they're not so complicated that you can't get it after like one or two trial games.
00:18:23
Speaker
um And even those trial games are going to be an absolute blast. Um, so I've, I've spent plenty of time talking about how the, the fact that they are different, but I want to get into what the factions are and what the differences are, because that's where I think it's, it's honestly inspired.
00:18:43
Speaker
It's as I, as I go on and describe it, I hope I'm going to be able to convey the same feeling that I got when I first started reading the rule book and said, Oh, this is very clearly,
00:18:53
Speaker
Someone with an incredible grasp of the the way game design works came at this first with a like this whole world thought out and this whole factions like concept of like if I was just writing a fantasy novel, how would they work? what would their philosophy be?
00:19:09
Speaker
And then translated that into mechanics. This is a a beautiful set of examples of... how how game mechanics can bolster and be in sync with a like theme or narrative or vibe like the the entire rest of the ah presentation of a game.
In-depth Look at Root's Factions
00:19:29
Speaker
um so Just in the base game, you've got the Marquis de Cat, you've got the Eerie Dynasties, or the E-Y-R-I-E Dynasties, they're the birds.
00:19:44
Speaker
um You've got the Woodland Alliance, and then you've got the Vagabond, and he's he's the Lord's most special little boy. um and he they're these These are all fundamentally different.
00:19:57
Speaker
um The Marquis de Cat is a ah like ah ah full kingdom of these these cat warriors and builders and things. And whoever is playing as them starts with nearly complete control of the board.
00:20:12
Speaker
you're gonna have a wow yeah exactly You're going to have a troop and on nearly every space besides one um So you you start with yeah the board is covered in cats, no matter like as long as someone is playing the cats, um that's that's going to be the case.
00:20:30
Speaker
um your your goal as the Marquis de Cat is you are trying to build buildings. You've got sawmills, you've got recruiters, you've got workshops that you're using to take your different actions. And you are trying to, every time you build a building, you're going to get more and more victory points. The the more of a building you already have built, the more victory points the next building is going to be worth. So you want to have several of them built at a time so when you get to build one and it's of course the more you have built the more resources you have to build the next one so you're you're trying to like build this like resource engine to really get to the goal yeah um in the meantime
00:21:11
Speaker
You've got the Eerie Dynasties, which are this this very strict sect of bird warriors, and they are going to start on one space. That's typically going to be the opposite one of the Marquis de Cat.
00:21:27
Speaker
Um, where the, the marquee will have their like keep that's like their main space that they're trying to, that the kind of like power, some of their extra stuff and, and it makes their troops able to stay in the fight longer.
00:21:38
Speaker
You as the Eerie dynasty starting the opposite, like diagonal opposite of the board of that. And you have six warriors that you put down everywhere else. The the cats have like one warrior per most spaces.
00:21:49
Speaker
You got six of them all bunched up on one space and you've got your one little nest that you've built. And your goal is to upturn their whole thing. year You're trying to go in and cause chaos. Yeah.
00:22:04
Speaker
you are you're expected to be much more aggressive as the Eerie Dynasty. um You are trying to um you're you're trying to build up the actions you can take.
00:22:15
Speaker
And the fascinating part to me, and the reason I've only ever actually played as them so far, is you want to be aggressive, but you have to oh dear Dear Lord in Heaven, this is going to this is going to be awful to explain. I promise playing the game is going to make it make much more sense than what about.
00:22:35
Speaker
you have a series of things in your like royal decree from the leader of the birds and you you pick at the start of the game who your leader of the birds is because they have like different things that they make you a little bit better at um and then every turn you add new actions to is it's called the decree it's the list of actions you have to take so you start out with just like oh i need to move my troops once and i need to fight once and it's like okay that's very manageable i can do that once a turn but then every turn you're adding something else to it and it's cumulative you're keeping your cards in there every turn you have to do more and more so eventually you get a couple turns in and then it's like okay
00:23:23
Speaker
Now I have to move three different groups of troops somewhere. I have to fight twice. um Some of the the ways that you set up your decree and we'll we'll get into cards in a little bit. But the the way you put cards down, sometimes you will have to take these actions in specific places or against like specific ah clearings and things.
00:23:43
Speaker
Where it's like, okay, not only do I need to move, but I need to move out of ah a specific space. And not only do I need to fight, but I need to fight someone in a specific say space. And not only do I need to build a new nest, but I need to build a new nest.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah. and i need to not have run out of nets to build or my government's going to collapse um if you can't take one of the actions you get thrown into turmoil which means your leader is humiliated and like excommunicated your your military falls apart and the entire decree is dissolved You reshuffle. You lose victory points based on like how many actions you already were were in your decree.
00:24:28
Speaker
And then you have to like start over. And you have to hope that you have enough built up. I know. i listen I hear ashole The bird is so stressful and I love it so much and I'm spending so much time on it because it's my absolute favorite. You are like locked into you have to build up this cycle of actions that you have to take for yourself.
00:24:50
Speaker
And if you build up the wrong pile of action, then it's like, oh, okay, well, I have plenty of troops, but I'm being told I have to attack in this one space just because my crusty old leader said it and I can't do it.
00:25:04
Speaker
So now my government collapses. Yeah. and Wow. That is such an interesting balance. It's the most compelling game bloop I've ever seen in a board game, and I'm not exaggerating.
00:25:17
Speaker
it's i can't i can't stop thinking about it. um And that's that's just two of the factions. I'll go over the other two much more quickly, I promise. The the the Woodland Alliance starts with... I actually haven't gotten to fully play a proper game with you the other two factions here, the Woodland Alliance and the Vagabond, but to my understanding and reading through the rules...
00:25:40
Speaker
Absolutely. That's the vagabond. He's the best. um the The Woodland Alliance starts actually with no troops on the board, but what they do is they gather sympathy and they gather supporters and things like that.
00:25:51
Speaker
They are, i mean, in the fiction of the game, they're trying to unite the creatures who are being like just thrown into the middle of this war between the cats and the birds. And they're like, hey, all the the woodland creatures that actually live here and don't want to be overtaken, yeah we need to fight back.
00:26:07
Speaker
um And so that that gameplay is based all around that. And then the vagabond, the funky little raccoon guy. Yeah, he's just one guy. If you play that faction, you're just one guy. Oh, yeah.
00:26:25
Speaker
um I don't fully know what his deal is. And I think that's the point. I know he will, he'll, he essentially does quest, explores ruins and uses items and things.
00:26:38
Speaker
um And we'll make like, not, I guess, I don't know if deals is the right word, but he'll like conspire with other factions and do favors for them and like align himself with others um And just kind of like try to survive and be a hero in this war.
00:26:55
Speaker
And that's one of the factions in the war in the war. That is a side of the war that you can you can play as. Yeah.
00:27:06
Speaker
And this is, of course, not to mention all of the the the many add-ons there are for this game. There are all kinds of other factions, that believe it or not, more complicated, but more interesting as well. They all have like very unique personalities and backgrounds, and it feels like because of that, they have very unique gameplay mechanics as well.
00:27:30
Speaker
But they're all existing in this 30 victory point space. They're all existing within these like dozen clearings. It's just what what tokens can you place down and where can you move and why can you move where you can move and and how how what all goes into what you can do on a turn.
00:27:48
Speaker
interesting need to take a breath yeah no for sure um out of all of them i think the birds sound the the most scary to me like this that seems really neat it sounds really interesting and i would love to see it in action but i think i would get too stressed out i think i'd probably play the vagabond or the uh The first one, the cats, those both sound really interesting. i think those are both a little more my speed, and but I do like that it gives you the option of kind of picking, picking what sounds fun to you and like what game style, what like really, really clicks with you. Like there, there are a lot of different ways to play this game. It seems like, and that's, that's really interesting.
00:28:32
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And it goes so even so far as to say, like, on the back, each faction you get has your little board where you keep track of all your pieces. And you're for for the for the birds, that's where your decree is. And that's where like kind of your HUD, if you will, for the game.
00:28:49
Speaker
um But on the back of that, it gives you a little readout of, like, this faction is going to be very aggressive or not very aggressive if you're playing the the way that you should be.
00:28:59
Speaker
um it's you're going to have a lot of cards you're going to have some cards not a lot you're going to be very good at crafting or very bad at crafting things like that you know it'll kind of give you the though lay of the land to be like hey if you want to play this faction this is this is the play style that best suits it um as you can imagine the birds are very aggressive you you need to be aggressive with them if you're going to win um things like that um i I have no idea what the recommendation recommendation is for the Vagabond, um but it's that that does that sounds very much like I think the one that you'd be interested in.
00:29:38
Speaker
There are also recommendations. Yes, just just a little scampering around. um there are There are recommendations in the rules for like, hey, if you're playing this game for the first time, you don't really want to freestyle it with which factions you are and aren't using.
00:29:56
Speaker
You don't want to use the Vagabond in a two-player game. um You rarely want to use it in a three-player game. Most of the time, if you're playing two players, it's really best to do the cats and the birds.
00:30:09
Speaker
Mm-hmm. if you're you you can you can mix and match a little bit when you've got two when you've got three um it's a little bit easier because you you've got um the the the cats the birds and the alliance even then it's kind of like you can play the vagabond if you want but it's it's more recommended to play the vagabond if you are if you have a group of four um because he He apparently really thrives when there's a lot of other stuff going on. Yeah, he seems to kind of get into everyone else's stuff. And if there's not enough people for you to get into their biz, then it doesn't seem like it ah works as well.
00:30:49
Speaker
right exactly i really gotta bug some people you know exactly i gotta do some favors some for some people and that's gonna make other people mad and i'm gonna say i don't care i've just built myself a crossbow i'm gonna go like explore this ruin and free up more space on the board you want me to do a favor for you why didn't you just ask come on It's high as bitter. I mean, come on. I'm right here. just got to talk to me. me that money. Give me that gold. You know what I'm saying? um but ah But yeah, all all this is to say, i
00:31:22
Speaker
i looking back on the past half hour of me speaking, i could have, um I think, truncated a little bit of the stuff I was talking about here, but i I wanted to try to convey this game has a lot going on, but it's all interconnected. like It all makes sense.
00:31:42
Speaker
and You don't need to you don't need fully grasp the way Marquis de Cat builds their their like sawmills. Exactly. you don't You don't need to grip it. you don't need to grip um um ah Sorry. Apologies. You don't need to fully wrap your head around. Okay, that's fair. You don't need to fully absorb everyone else's play style to understand yours. I don't really care how the cats are building their buildings.
00:32:16
Speaker
What I care about is that building seems important. I want it to not exist. I'm going to send all of my birds over there to raid it and destroy it oh And so your decree says don't do that actually.
00:32:30
Speaker
that scene that's the thing. it could very easily say don't do that, go do this other thing instead. It's like that's the worst idea. Make sure that you don't do that actually.
00:32:42
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. it's just It's just so great because the moment you can't do something, you immediately go into turmoil and you can't do anything else that would have been in your decree. So it's just like hey, man, we can't hire any more people to fight in your war. I think you're doing something really wrong, and we're going to have a coup about it.
00:33:01
Speaker
No. oh Yeah. It's it's great. It's truly just it's so good. And all the different parts of this game.
00:33:12
Speaker
I haven't really talked about the cards yet. They're they're not as they're not as fascinating to me as how like different these different factions are while still having the same ultimate goal.
00:33:23
Speaker
But the the cards are interesting, too, because they have. ah quote unquote suits. You have your your mouse cards, your rabbit cards, your fox cards, your bird cards. Bird cards are always wild.
00:33:35
Speaker
um But the other three... They will, depending on who you are, you'll use the different suits to do different things. And that's where with the the birds and the decree, how i mentioned like sometimes your decree will tell you to only do this in this space or only walk into that space.
00:33:52
Speaker
That's because of the suit on the card that you put in is like, oh, if I put a rabbit card in my decree, whatever action I'm taking it has to be related to a rabbit space on the board because the clearings on the board also have suits.
00:34:07
Speaker
They will have little labels on them. like, hey, the critters that live in this clearing are foxes. And so there will be effects that you get that that use the cards to be triggered that you can sometimes only take advantage of if it matches like what you're trying to do your thing in. Interesting.
00:34:26
Speaker
Yeah, and that that adds another little layer of stuff to it. um it's it's It's really interesting how all those parts work together because every card, just ah i can't think of actually of any card that doesn't have a suit to it.
00:34:38
Speaker
um Every card going to have that suit or a bird, which means it's wild. um But every every player that you can be, every faction that you can be, uses that same information in wildly different ways.
00:34:53
Speaker
um But it's still like they're utilizing the same information. They just have to do a wholly different thing to
Critique of Root's Game Design
00:34:58
Speaker
it. That's really quite neat. Yes, it's very neat.
00:35:04
Speaker
And I've got beef with some of the cards and I'm sorry, I'm going to go off on a little tangent here. I'm going to grab the camera. and I'm going to look directly in it. I'm talking to you, Cole. Now, Cole, listen to me.
00:35:18
Speaker
Listen. The only thing. Yes, i've i'm I've grabbed the guy. i'm that We're we're we're we're doing it live now. this is There's a mockumentary.
00:35:28
Speaker
I'm I'm shooting the camera and I'm looking right at Cole. I'm saying, why did you add dominance cards? Why did you do that? You had a perfect game and you ruined it. um For reference, dominance cards are cards that'll come up um instead of being like a suit where you um it's like, a oh, you you do this and you play it or you can like there's there's crafting, which I won't get into as well. it' basically every every card. If you don't want to use it for the suit, you also have the option of like, oh, you have enough stuff built. You can you can quote unquote craft the card and you get a little like temporary effect.
00:36:04
Speaker
instead of like using it for your class thing or your faction thing. It's like a nice little thing. Like if you can't use the suit that you've got, it's like, Oh, I can at least try to get a little bonus or something like that.
00:36:16
Speaker
Um, There are dominance cards where instead of like crafting or anything like that, it'll have a suit, but whenever it gets used, instead of just like, oh, you discard the card and you're done, um it becomes like possible alternate victory condition.
00:36:35
Speaker
um you can't you can either play it for yourself or if you play it for the suit, it it goes onto the board for anyone to take. And then you can claim it whenever it's your turn and just kind of say, hey, now that we're this far into the game, you can only trigger it once you've once you've gotten to 10 victory points. So you have to have like some skin in the game to be able to to do this. But it fundamentally changes what victory looks like for you.
00:37:01
Speaker
And so you can be just a third of the way through the game and then someone's like, okay, here's the thing. Actually, instead of trying to get to 30 victory points, now what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to control three mouse clearings.
00:37:14
Speaker
And that's stupid. I don't like that. Because it's First off, it makes me lose and I don't like losing. um But more importantly... I feel like it's just like it has such a strong every faction has such a strong way to use its strengths and build that like engine or or power through and do what it is that you're doing to get to that 30 victory points that I think having an alter alternate win condition in there that you can kind of trigger if it comes up and to your convenience it kind of feels like a like a cop out or like a dirty trick question
00:37:57
Speaker
yes could you just take those cards out and play house rules of like yeah these don't exist probably i i'm not comfortable enough yet with the game to be able to say that for sure program but you you almost definitely could unless the other factions have something about dominance cards that i don't really know yet i think i think that would mess with the vagabond a little bit if i remember right um it's It's not ideal, but in in the games that I've played, they've caused more trouble than they've been worth it.
00:38:32
Speaker
Because i I have yet to finish out a game where victory was won by points and not through a dominance card. Because what can happen is someone will play a dominance card...
00:38:46
Speaker
And they're all they've already met the condition to win. So you have like basically one turn for everyone to do something to take it from them. If you're in a bad spot, you just don't have a chance to get back on top.
00:38:57
Speaker
That kind of stinks. I can see that being a little frustrating. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And i I also know because I haven't experimented with all the factions here. I'm by no means. Am I a like gifted strategy game player? In fact, I'm kind of doo doo at it.
00:39:14
Speaker
um But I just I in my personal experience, it has is distracted from what I otherwise feel are the very, very incredible things.
00:39:27
Speaker
incredibly solid strengths of this game it um it gives you a an easy out ah card where it's like okay I've played this game long enough I don't want to do what this game is to win it I want to do a different thing instead That does make me think of the... ah There's the Muffin Time. We did an episode on that, like, ah two years ago, almost.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah, a thousand years ago. Yeah, there's ah there's a card in there called I Wanna and it lets you shuffle your hand into the deck, and then you either get to draw seven cards and start basically back over from the beginning, or stop playing.
00:40:13
Speaker
That's right. This rings a bell. Yeah, just shuffle the cards in the deck and if honestly, if you don't want to play anymore, you can just kind of go. Yeah. All right, cool. Yeah, it's it's not quite that level of like, you can give up now if you want.
00:40:28
Speaker
This just seems like kind of tongue in cheek of like, the the like tongue-in-cheek of like blatantly like yeah this is the a game over card for you yeah right exactly like the dominance cards feel like that but not in like a self-referential way it's just know like oh okay i guess you don't have to play the game the right way now yeah um but i'm also a sore loser so take that for what you will
00:40:58
Speaker
um I will take that. i will take that and i'll i'll I'll take it to the bank. um ah I'm going to cash that in, actually. that's That's very fair. Interesting thing. There's no currency, really, in this in this game, as far as I can tell. Again, there are items that really the Vagabond can use more than anyone else can. I think that...
00:41:16
Speaker
the the the The Alliance may be able to use them too. I'm not 100% certain. And i'm I'm sure the extra factions have like all kinds of weird stuff. you can You can turn them into magic points and use them to cast magic snake spells and whatever. I yeah i don't know.
00:41:30
Speaker
but that I feel like that might be a thing. um But... All told, it it it doesn't really have like a currency. You're just dealing with your cards and things. But it's just such a... it's it's such a This game feels like a like clockwork mechanism where all of these different pieces are moving around.
00:41:52
Speaker
And to anyone but a like seasoned expert in like game design, it's an incredibly complicated thing to look at and like understand. And you're not necessarily going to like really the clock all the different like things that are moving and how they're moving and what's moving what and like so stuff keeps happening.
00:42:15
Speaker
But it's going to move perfectly and it's going to be this really fluid system. And at the end of the day, it's going to be a beautiful piece of art. And that's, that's what I
Comparing Classic Board Games to Root
00:42:25
Speaker
think this game is. This game is a very complicated set of rules that overlap, but in a way that is ultimately not as difficult to understand as it sounds.
00:42:35
Speaker
And it just, it works in a really fascinating way. And I think that's why you should play this game. Sure. Hell yeah. but That does sound really interesting. It does but is really cool to have a game that is asymmetrical in a way that is not necessarily 1v4, but more so in that everyone has their own motivations and methodology of like getting to win condition, of accumulating points. No one's doing the same thing, but you're all playing the same game.
00:43:07
Speaker
I do think that that concept is really cool. The dominance cards do sound kind of a little BS, honestly. I can see them being kind of a balance of like, yeah, sometimes like there just isn't a good way to like get to a win, or like um the game is taking a really long time, and this is a way to like make it not do that.
00:43:27
Speaker
Yeah. a little bit of struggle if they didn't have a way to like get ah get a quick win just by being a little bastard man.
00:43:38
Speaker
so I can see like where they're useful, but also I can understand where they would feel unfun. Yeah. And ah again, i think a lot of that is flavored by my personal experience and not necessarily because like I haven't seen the full picture yet. I haven't opened up the the clock entirely and seen every individual part.
00:44:00
Speaker
I've seen some of it. and from what I've seen, I have my opinions about it, but yeah i'm I'm not going to sit here and say, I mean, obviously this is a a much more well put together package than anything I could ever think of in my life.
00:44:11
Speaker
Even if I devoted my entire life to trying to reach this level of like the creativity and ah being adept in in designing rules and in games.
00:44:24
Speaker
yeah So I'm not going to sit here and be like, oh, game designer did it wrong. I could have done it better. No. i it's It's just that that one little thing just sticks. It gets caught in my teeth every once in a while. and It keeps me from it it keeps me from fully enjoying what would otherwise be a delicious meal.
00:44:43
Speaker
um But really not even then because I still am very hungry for it constantly. No one will play it with me. To the point to where you wanted to do a whole ass episode on it.
00:44:54
Speaker
Exactly. yeah No, like I totally get you and you're literally recommend recommending it to to anyone who wants to play it. It it is does sound like a ah beautiful and interesting game.
00:45:06
Speaker
I'd love to give it a shot. ah yeah Yeah, like I've i've got some i've got some i'm covered some roommates, so if you want to like swing by and like play some games, like come on over here. I've got plenty of people. I'll hold a message for you.
00:45:19
Speaker
i'm I'm absolutely into it. And again, I think the digital versions of the game too, I mean, they hold true to the same rules. um And I think for, for people who want to play this game often, that's a good solution. It's just that playing the game physically at least once is a good way to understand like, this is why the rules in the digital version are the way they are.
00:45:41
Speaker
This is kind of how everything works. And like, yeah, why this is set up this way because physically this is what you have to do with these tiles and things like that yeah digitizing a board game always comes with its own little caveats but it is cool that it is available and it is so accessible it's only like 15 bucks it's not too bad Yeah, exactly. That's that's the thing. is like well you All the expansions are there, too. so like you yeah get the base game and you can get a couple of little um expansions or adding a new one and later this this very month.
00:46:12
Speaker
that's ah That's the thing that surprised me is they are still making expansions for this thing. Yeah, this this year. um I think the most recent one was released back in 22 before then. 23, March the Underworld expansion. Okay.
00:46:29
Speaker
I guess I misread that one because I thought that was the one that was in 22. But yeah, no, you're absolutely right. um but Yeah, it's it's good stuff. 2018. What a time to be alive. yeah um but Yeah, that's that's about all I've got. I know I just kind of rambled on for a long time about how birds have a cult like devotion to their leader that they'll only overthrow when it becomes impossible for them literally to to carry out their divine word. But um I promise I'm not a zealot.
00:46:59
Speaker
I'm a normal person and my brain's healthy. Okay. I'm honestly, with given that description of the birds, I'm very curious as to, in the Riverfolk expansion, there is a lizard cult, and I really want to know what that is all about, because they are an actual cult.
00:47:14
Speaker
So, like, I want to know what their, like, win condition and their point gain system is, and, like, there's so many new factions in this. There's, like, six or seven, maybe even eight.
00:47:25
Speaker
i think there's two two new factions per expansion, and there's four total expansions. something that. I'm curious as to what every there almost five total expansions with the newest one.
00:47:36
Speaker
So like there are so many different ways to play this game. I'm curious as to like what everyone does, you know? Yeah. I think one of the expansions too is just devoted. Pardon me.
00:47:49
Speaker
I had a coughing fit while I was muted. um I think one of the expansions is devoted specifically to the Vagabond and just adding more mechanics and different like character versions of the Vagabond and things like that.
00:48:03
Speaker
Like it's just so yeah so inventive. That's cool. Yeah, I'm really excited to to see more about this. i would love to play along with you. Yeah, and it honestly, at the end of the day, it makes a game like Risk fun.
00:48:18
Speaker
and i you can't do that without doing something incredibly inspired and right.
Root's Industry Impact and Conclusion
00:48:24
Speaker
m ah You said everyone at the beginning of the episode, you said everyone has their Risk Horror stories. And my Risk Horror story is that yeah me and another person who was like So I was like nine and they were like three years younger than me. So they had to open like six, found a board game for Risk and played with the little men. And we put them all over this one, my like one of my mom's friends houses.
00:48:50
Speaker
And we lost a lot of the little dudes and they were very upset about that. Yeah, that's my risk horror story because i I've never played the game other than that.
00:49:03
Speaker
Yeah, i I tried to play the game a couple of times. I had a couple successful times with a couple of friends that were like, we kind of didn't know the rules.
00:49:14
Speaker
And so we just did what we wanted. And that was fun. yeah But then the the one time I've tried to actually sit down and play the game proper it was ah It was a birthday of mine in my like late teens or early 20s. I don't quite remember. James,
00:49:35
Speaker
you're such an incredible nerd. Sorry? You're late teens, you're having a birthday, you're alright everyone, we're gonna play Risk. Well, here's the thing.
00:49:46
Speaker
You're right. You're right.
00:49:49
Speaker
and No, it was like after all like birthday stuff had happened and it was like a sleepover. And a friend of mine was in from like out of town, out of town. In fact, that friend of mine. Yeah, and they're they're absolutely there's a very high chance that they're listening to this episode right now and they know exactly who they are. they They know exactly where the story is going.
00:50:10
Speaker
I was i was very much like I think this board game is fun and I want my friends to enjoy board games with me as much as I like them. So we're going to play Risk. And it was just miserable. We started it in like the early evening and then at like three o'clock in the morning we were like, I think we're close to being finished.
00:50:33
Speaker
This guy's going to win. Do we just want to call it? hate this. And I'm yeah, you're absolutely right. um It's just a slog. It's just... Risk fine. feel that way about Civ sometimes, but I love Civ.
00:50:50
Speaker
Yeah, Civ. I think Civ has more going on. Civ has enough going on to where even if it's a slog, it's a slog that you can think about. Find some enjoyment of. Yeah, yeah you you you can get something out of it. Risk, when it hits the rough parts, it's just rough.
00:51:07
Speaker
Well... What do you get when you make a board game then like forever ago? Monopoly. I don't know. Something. Exactly. And that's that's why games like Root come around and just like fully shake up the whole thing, do a completely different thing with it and are wildly successful. Like ah like I've been talking about, this game hit it big. It won awards. It's got like a whole like legacy now.
00:51:33
Speaker
Yeah. Just because it was so incredibly well made. That's really rad. Yeah. um And I have talked for nearly an hour about it now, so I'm going stop doing that before I throw up.
Episode Wrap-up and Audience Interaction
00:51:49
Speaker
Have a great day, everyone. might be on Twitch. For listening, I'm on Twitch sometimes at PikaPew. P-I-K-A-P-E-W-W. The two W's are on purpose.
00:52:02
Speaker
um it We'll get a third. We'll get there. We'll earn it. The number you have dialed is not in service right now. Please hang up and try again.
00:52:14
Speaker
Thank you. P I K a P E W W.com backslash creed thoughts.gov. HTTPS colon slash creed thoughts.
00:52:26
Speaker
Dot org. Um, and and then you can find James. Um, if you do know where, let me know where he was. Uh, cause I, I haven't seen him in a while.
00:52:38
Speaker
i'm in the Um, I'm sneaking. I'm eating your insulation. Like it's cotton candy. Oh dude. Hmm.
00:52:46
Speaker
um And then, yeah, hit us up on Spotify if you want to drop us a Q&A. We really love to hear from y'all. Thank you. Absolutely. Give us ah an an Apple review if you're feeling so kind. Toss us a little interaction. We we we love doing this. i love Clearly, I love talking about overcomplicated board games that no one wants to play with me. yeah And I'm going to keep doing it until someone throws me into the sun.
00:53:13
Speaker
ah We got to get a good trebuchet for that, I think. um But until then... It's gotta exist. Bye. Bye.