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The Keening and the Craic: Why Irish Hearts Are Always Full of Both
55 Plays14 days ago
In this season six premiere, Jennifer Muldowney welcomes viral sensation and dear friend Vivienne Sayers for a St. Patrick’s Day conversation that goes beyond surface-level celebration. Together, they explore the bittersweet soul of Ireland, from red carpets like the Oscars to the sacred traditions of the Irish wake. They unpack why Irish culture has long been a masterclass in holding both joy and deep, generational grief at the same time.
They dive into the power of visceral storytelling through films like Hamnet, share the hilarious realities of being Irish in New York, including a mortifying run-in with Ed Sheeran, and reflect on how Irish identity is evolving. The conversation highlights how the traditional Irish funeral is entering a “chrysalis stage,” shifting alongside changing beliefs and modern perspectives. They also challenge the drinking stereotypes tied to St. Patrick’s Day, encouraging a return to deeper roots like language, community, and the ancient practice of keening.
Tune in for a celebration of the “Yin and Yang” of the Emerald Isle: the heart that smiles, the soul that cries, and the community that holds it all together.
Key Topics:
The Dual Soul: Navigating the “tear and the smile” in Irish culture
Keening and The Craic: The role of professional mourners and the social nature of Irish wakes
The Modern Irish Identity: Moving beyond stereotypes and reclaiming language and heritage
Generational Trauma vs Wealth: How history shapes emotional expression and resilience
Wake 2.0: Why funerals and life itself require community, connection, and presence
Quotes from the episode:
"There’s room for everyone at the table, no matter what industry... even if you're bloody identical twins, they still create their own corners of the world for themselves."
— Jennifer Muldowney
"America has generational wealth; Ireland has generational trauma. And we totally laugh about it, but... we are looking to broaden the Irish narrative of who we are as people."
— Vivienne Sayers
Timestamps:
[02:16] Irish Excellence: Discussing the Oscars, the Rugby Triple Crown, and Jessie Buckley’s visceral performance in Hamnet.
[05:57] The "So Irish" Airport Encounter: A red carpet for celebrities, but no one to help with the heavy lifting.
[07:54] The Ed Sheeran Incident: A hilarious story of mortification and mocking a global superstar to his face in Williamsburg.
[10:33] The Irish in NYC: Why Irish people message you after they see you in a bar rather than approaching directly.
[14:09] The Social Event of the Season: Why the rural Irish funeral is a communal milestone worth preserving.
[16:13] The Chrysalis Stage: How declining church influence is changing funeral experiences for younger generations.
[19:06] Beyond the Green Beer: A call to support Irish culture, language, and businesses.
[25:32] Corned Beef vs Boiled Ham: The contrast between Irish-American traditions and growing up in Ireland.
[29:26] The Art of Keening: Exploring the history of the Bean Chaointe and the lasting impact of ritual mourning.
Connect with Vivienne Sayers at:
Websites - https://viviennesayers.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vivienne_in_nyc/
Connect with Jennifer/The Glam Reaper on socials at:
Instagram - / jennifermuldowney
TikTok - / therealglamreaper
YouTube - / @theglamreapermuldowney
LinkedIn - / jennifermuldowney
Facebook Page - / muldowneymemorials
Email us - glamreaperpodcast@gmail.com
Shop Merch - https://the-glam-reaper.printify.me/p
Listen to The Glam Reaper Podcast on Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast
The Glam Reaper® AMAZON Storefront - https://amzn.to/4hObpOh
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Transcript
The Role of Funerals in Irish Culture
00:00:00
Speaker
One of the most exciting things almost in an Irish community or a rural community at home is the funeral. And it's also a great social event. That's what I never want Ireland to lose.
Season 6 Launch of The Glam Reaper Podcast
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast. We are launching season six. So exciting, so so so exciting and we're doing it on St. Patrick's Day because why the heck not? It seems to be Women's Month and it's Irish Month and we're going to talk, get into all of that.
00:00:39
Speaker
But our episode today features the incredible, the viral sensation That is Vivian Sayers O'Callaghan and I will call her one of a dear friend of mine, one of a dear friend, one of my dear friends,
Introducing Vivian Sayers O'Callaghan
00:00:54
Speaker
Vivian. She is based in New York. She is from Ireland. Vivian, welcome to the Glam Reaper.
00:00:59
Speaker
my goodness, I feel like we've known each other for so long. I've known the Glam Reaper for two years at this point and talked about you coming on the podcast. Of this May 1st, I'll be here three years and I say I met you my first or second month here.
00:01:11
Speaker
Definitely, definitely. I know. And it's so true it's been such an honor and a privilege to see you grow from strength to strength. Like you really have. You've blossomed you and you're a full on New Yorker now, I would say too.
00:01:24
Speaker
you claim that title i have another seven years to go i think but thank you no oh gosh i feel like i'd be absolutely nowhere without you you're one of the first people in the city who was like absolutely come along i'll give you any advice that i possibly can and as you said a moment ago i still consider you a very dear friend also
Inclusion in Industries: Breaking Barriers
00:01:42
Speaker
It is. And you know what, as it should be, as it feckin' should be, because that's the thing, I don't understand people who gatekeep. I don't understand people who are like, oh, this is mine, my corner, you're not allowed in. Lads, there's room for everyone at the table, no matter what industry, whatever space you're in Even if you're bloody identical twins, like, hello, you've seen them on TikTok, they still create their own corners of the world for themselves. Like,
00:02:05
Speaker
There's enough love for everybody. And the more we like, I will say if there's one thing I'm good at is knowing people and connecting people because I'm a child of Max, I guess. What a great day to be doing this recording. It's St.
Irish Cultural Achievements: Oscars and Rugby
00:02:18
Speaker
Patrick's Day. Obviously, happy St. Patrick's Day to everyone. and But the Oscars, Ireland in the Rugby, the Triple crown jesse bucky you know doing amazing um as an actress best actress for hamlet which obviously is about grief and child loss and if you haven't seen it you need to see it it's so good i mean she's just impeccable in it i have to say but it's irish month it's women's month it's just so great to see women irish women particularly making making headway in america it really is so good
00:02:47
Speaker
It was actually a seriously impressive month for us. And it's so, I only watched Hamlet for the first time. I guess it was like last week. And the second you said there, it's about so much grief and loss. And I can't believe didn't even mention that to you beforehand as well. Like we there are so many good, good things happening. But that movie was so powerful. And I actually have been thinking about it every single night since I did watch it. Because Jess's performance was so insanely, it was almost like, I think the audience, we could see that it that was like a those were visceral feelings internalize them but I feel kind of like traumatized after watching it as well yeah because I feel like through that almost but that's the power of a skilled actress isn't it absolutely I mean that whale like not to the spoilers in it obviously where it's about child loss I think that's kind of clear we're not spoiling anything that but her guttural
Jessie Buckley's Family and Celebrity Encounters
00:03:38
Speaker
scream. I mean, I have heard a mother's scream when they've lost a child and it's just, it is something that never leaves your brain. Like it's, it sits now in a, in a dark corner in my brain and like her group being able to bring that and she has a child like so she she actually said that she went through it in her brain she thought like the worst to her was losing her child and she yeah that's how she brought I mean eight months old or something like that so it was almost also real for her I such a beaming personality like there are people with who who what I say they have open faces they have faces that
00:04:16
Speaker
kind of emit light and joy and she's just kind of one of those people so then to see her in such an alternative kind of character to who she is in real life was like jarring I actually have goosebumps like my hair is standing up and my arms like thinking about it we could all see like a small bit of ourselves I guess in that as well especially as you know young women such as ourselves yeah Oh, you a lot younger than I, but however, I'll take the win while I have it. And what was so funny was I was home last week in Ireland or like whatever, it's nearly two weeks ago now. And actually her family were in front of me in line at the Aer Lingus desk checking in. I mean, this is so Irish.
00:04:56
Speaker
this is so irish uh so they were checking in and erlingas had a red carpet for them i mean it was clearly honestly it was a bit too much i thought because erlingas obviously paid for her flights thought we'll get the free promo out of this i mean ah but what what i actually found hilarious was that um because i remember looking at this woman and thinking oh my god she's so stylish And she's got heels on and she's getting on a flight. That was what was going through my brain.
00:05:20
Speaker
But then was no Erling Gustav who helped this poor woman put a huge suitcase up onto the belt. Her husband and Jessie's sister had gone off for the photo shoot. And Jessie's mom, who I didn't realize it was her at the time, was like this glamorous lady trying to put this huge suitcase up onto the luggage belt. And I thought, Erling, this is where you need to be. Not at the red carpet trying to get your free promo. It was hilarious. You wouldn't have been on the same flight as them were going to LA. Yeah, it was just that we were checking in at the same time, which by the way, her sister is stunning. I mean, her actually, the the whole family is stunning. But yeah, her sister, I was just like, wow. yeah And she looks like her.
00:05:58
Speaker
And how did you copy it was then? Then was it when you saw the Red No, again, it was so Irish. I went up to the desk. Again, I had just spotted this warm glamorous woman and then this beautiful young woman. You know, you just kind of make note. And then I rocked up to the desk and the girl was like, oh my God, the Aer Lingus girl who was working on the desk. That was Jessie Buckley's family.
00:06:19
Speaker
I actually laughed because, again, this is just so Irish. is um I said, oh my gosh, did you say you know any did you say anything to them other than checking them in? And she said, no. And that is so Irish. It's why a lot of celebrities, as you know, love coming to Ireland. Like Jay-Z and Beyonce walked through the Phoenix Park and not one person went near them. Because that's just not what we do in Ireland.
Vivian's Celebrity Experience with Ed Sheeran
00:06:41
Speaker
ah You just unlocked a key memory in my brain from...
00:06:45
Speaker
I wonder what that was about eight months ago at this point when you and I, i was invited to an influencer event and I said, do you know who'd be gassed to go with? janet Let me shoot Jennifer a message. So Jennifer and I arrived, um I guess we got off the G train or something like that into the heart of Williamsburg. And so we're, you know, the influencers. So it was fantastic. We had VIP tickets. We skipped a line probably of 200 people or 250 people. Got in there, there was free pizza, free Jameson Drake's, right? Yes. And we're yapping away there. I have yet to say that the name of the famous person. But ah he pops anyway. We look left. jeez, isn't that it? You're a man, Ed Sheeran. And he goes, so we're gawking at him anyway because he's within a meter of us. And he goes, hello. It is very, you know, so British and kind and lovely, sweet accent. And Jennifer, what does Jennifer do?
00:07:42
Speaker
Hello! Straight back into his face. Not, not what's the crack? What's the story? How's things? Hello, lovely to meet you. No, hello. I will never forget it. Now, like, peak mortification anyway, because I froze. I was like, oh my God, that is Ed Sheeran. And he's within a meter the two of us. But, but i then that increased as Jennifer mocks Ed Sheeran back to his face.
00:08:11
Speaker
My dear God, never in my life have I said hello. And I just don't know where it came from. It was like not something natural. It was like I turned around, i locked eyes with them and I just hello.
00:08:25
Speaker
But I think genuinely like I think you and I, if ever either of us said anything like hilarious to to each other, we'd like mock each other and say it back to them. And I said, that's where your brain went. You just went to let me.
00:08:37
Speaker
That was so hilarious sounding. Let me do it right back to him. Ed Sheeran's English. Oh, God. Yeah. Mortification. I mean, yeah, you just can't take me anywhere. But it's, you know, what it is so Irish coded because that's the thing. We're just we're just normal people. Like I like i I do remember there was one time in New York I was walking down the street and I did see um Justin Hoffman.
00:09:03
Speaker
And he's iconic to me. Like I am obsessed with him. Him and Robert De Niro, like, oh, my God, they'd be my two people. Oh, and Lionel Richie. We all know that. my He walked past me, but my friend wouldn't let me wouldn't let me talk to him.
00:09:18
Speaker
He was like, no, you just won't do that in New York. And I was like, but but it's Dustin Hoffman, like the one person I really just want to say hello to. And he just wouldn't let me talk to him. And I just think like, again, is it is that why like Irish get on so well in New York? Like we understand celebrities and influencers, like you probably even get people coming up to you, but like, it you know, do we just leave them alone? Like, it's just mind your business. It's like, there's been a couple of times where I've had Irish people even walking down the street towards me and I've even gotten are you Vivian, like the Irish girl? And I said, yeah, there's a lot of Irish girls, but I think I might be the one you're talking about. Yeah, I see you on TikTok, whatever. And it's always the Americans that will feel comfortable saying it to you first with Irish people. Now, this is slightly creepier, actually, what some people think, but I might get a message a day afterwards saying, hey, I saw you last night at this bar or this place. I didn't want to interrupt you. I didn't want to say hello. So I'm just saying hello now. Love your content, blah, blah, blah. Because we are humble, kind andgen and generous in those ways. We don't want weird you out. However, say maybe the day afterwards saying I was looking at you was like
00:10:30
Speaker
I actually got one once and I thought it was totally fine. I didn't think it was that weird. I was actually on the L train because I used to live in Ridgewood when I first moved to the city. That's where like all the Irish people land now because it's cheap and cheerful.
00:10:44
Speaker
And someone just text me an hour afterwards. they They were like, were you on the L train heading out to Brooklyn? And I was like, yeah. Yeah. And they were like, oh, I saw you, but they didn't know if it was you or not. And I was like, oh, isn't that funny? And anyone I say that to, they're like, Vivian, run. That's so creepy.
00:11:03
Speaker
I mean, you do have to be so careful these days. It is. Yeah, you do have to be so careful because there's eyes everywhere. And you I mean, there's always the running joke, actually, that you can't do anything, especially New York. You cannot do anything. Somebody will know you from back home. Like somebody will say um I had my old landlord was my mother's, my my uncle's neighbor back home. Like there's just so many connections. Yeah.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah, you can't do anything. You can't budge. Yeah, I used to actually, when I was in New York, i well, I'm still New York, but like when I, you know, it was, I actually would stay away from Irish community neighborhoods because I just felt like, no, there's too much. Yeah.
00:11:44
Speaker
that's and And that's the amazing thing about there's like kind of a higher turnover of Irish people in the city now because of the J1s and stuff. But the more and more that I would, I could go to the butcher block down the road to stock up in my tato's Wecla Barri and stuff. And when I'd walk in, date you someone would either know you from the videos or, well, that's my own fault again. i But someone might know you because they'll know you from the Cork Association or from the consulate events or something like that, i which I think... Honestly, there is we are so, so, so incredibly lucky to have that. But if it's not cup of tea, you will run ah in the opposite direction. Well, and absolutely.
Changing Trends in Irish Funerals
00:12:22
Speaker
And actually, that kind of brings in a little bit of just, you know, obviously I work in the funeral space and it's one of the amazing things about Irish funerals is the community that gets behind. when Somebody, whether it's a rural community or in Dublin or, you know, in Cork or wherever in one of the big cities, like it's your community still rallies behind you. And while Ireland is still a bit in the chokehold of like the church and stuff. And again, we're not anti-religion on this podcast, but, you know, we are still kind of coming out of that like we're in the chrysalis stage, I feel.
00:12:56
Speaker
where tunerals do still 90% happen in the church in Ireland. It is, no matter what, whether it's in the church or outside of it, it's amazing what the community in Ireland brings. um And it's a beautiful thing.
00:13:09
Speaker
Completely agree with you there. um And it's kind of very weird to say it, but one of the most exciting things almost in an Irish community or a rural community at home is the funeral. It is an incredible communal, community based event. And it's also a great social event and people love to use it. There might be one person at the centre of it all who can no longer be social. But they're facilitating everybody else being incredibly social. How generous. But that's what I never want Ireland to lose. And I'm unfortunately seeing at the moment that we're we're having smaller funerals. Not as many people are going.
00:13:48
Speaker
to them. the and There are patients now who are in their 60s, 70s and 80s and their entire social life is attending funerals. My grandmother quite well, you know, being one of them.
00:14:01
Speaker
And it's a, I don't even know where was going with that now, but it's just so true. and But I don't want us to lose it. It's, well, I think, you know what? I think, like, and having just been home and talking to funeral directors, as only I do, and actually I attended a funeral in a non-official professional capacity while I was at home as well. um it It is interesting. I do think ah little part of that is the the role of the church, is because you have people now who are atheists and they don't want to set foot inside of a church, so they're not going to go to the funeral. They might go to the afters. and You know, you've got...
00:14:34
Speaker
people who, like I actually just looking around the funeral that I was at, it was very interesting. All the elderly people quite literally quoted the priest word for word. They were singing along and muttering along with him. Whereas everyone my age and younger didn't know any of the words, you know, didn't really know, I guess, why we were there other than to support our person, our friend who was going through this loss. And so it's, it's I just think we're we're at a bit of a as I said, a chrysalis stage where we're just trying to figure it out. and Like I always joke that what we do here in America and back home is the wake 2.0 and it's bringing in that mourning, that laughter, like tears and laughter happening in the same room. And it's because of that community spirit we don't want to lose. And that shouldn't be based on religion. It shouldn't be faith-based. It should be just community supporting each other. Inclusiveness. I get you. That's a really interesting point that you brought up is maybe is the church service ah turning people away perhaps from going to funerals and it so often was kind of the vehicle that that's, you know, grew these types of events. Yeah, so that's very interesting. I wouldn't have much of a comment on that love me church tunes, but you're right.
00:15:51
Speaker
but It can be a very sad occasion being in the church. I mostly personally go for the wake and the sandwiches and the cookies and then the post event. You know, I know what I like to get out of things.
00:16:02
Speaker
A funerary cannot happen without a good sandwich. that's It's always a mammy that made them somewhere and it's on the freshest of Brennan's bread or all like the bake. Beautiful ham, like you'll just never... you'll never emulate that feeling anywhere else. But what's so interesting there is because Ireland has been, it does a joke made that Ireland quite literally jumped from the 1800s to the 21st century. And I guess that's so much because of our history and everything else. So we're actually in these super,
00:16:31
Speaker
um kind of catalyzed sort of periods that we have to do and get all these things done and find our identity very quickly because as a country, the Republic of Ireland is only 100 years old, you know, so we're figuring our identity and who we are out. So when you're like there, people don't feel as welcome maybe towards the service or anything like that because it might be religious and stuff like that. That actually totally put something in my head then. That's exactly kind of what happened with the Irish language and the stigma around it as well of we don't welcome here. So let's find our own way with it, which is what happened what's happening. So will the funeral business in Ireland make a comeback in 50 years?
00:17:10
Speaker
I guess we'll we'll do a Glam Reaper podcast with Vivian Timpointo
Beyond Stereotypes: Expanding the Irish Narrative
00:17:14
Speaker
then. great this Will I be alive in 50 years? I don't know, Vivian. Jesus Christ, maybe the podcast will be at my own. I mean, 50 years of 94, 93, turning 94.
00:17:29
Speaker
But it is, i mean, what you're talking about, and I'm laughing because I did bring, I have my St. Patrick's Day t-shirt that I absolutely love. People who are listening to this as opposed to on YouTube, it is a series of drunken people falling off chairs and it says Irish yoga.
00:17:45
Speaker
And I wanted to talk about it because it is my favorite T-shirt. I absolutely love it because I am Irish and I love yoga and I do love a beverage. Right. So it's very appropriate for Jed.
00:17:57
Speaker
However, something you and I and I think a lot of Irish people abroad anyway are very passionate about and that ties into what we just talked about, sort of community and and rebirth of Ireland and all of this is this drinking culture. um Like St. Patrick's Day is today when this is going to be released. And, you know, they're dying rivers green. They're serving shamrock shakes. Jesus, they're dying beer green. I mean, what in the Lord? And people are just using it as an excuse to get drunk. Like there's two of my least favorite days in New York and it's Santa Con and St. Patrick's Day.
00:18:33
Speaker
Because it's just drunk people. Okay, okay. Tomorrow will be a um an interesting day, all right? And it's it's almost a shame. There's so much to talk about here. And I'd love to begin, I'd say, by definitely saying nobody is taking the pint as a away. What we're looking for here and something that you touched on there is we're looking for the wider conversations. We're looking to broaden the Irish narrative of who we are as people, as a culture, because by, as my, my nan would say, by gum, do we have a lot to offer? Yeah. So, um,
00:19:06
Speaker
yeah i love her so and that um Didn't they just say, going back to the Oscars, like we have won more Oscars than any other country per capita. I totally ah butchered that. But won more Oscars per capita than any other country, something like that.
00:19:23
Speaker
um So we have an incredibly massive like creative output. And we are kind of hoping that, and by the video I made the other day, um it It has like a, ah it didn't do incredibly well, but it still has like 200,000 views. It's sort of me saying, let's drop the drinking stereotype. Let's drop the green beer and let's use St. Patrick's, not only St. Patrick's Day, but some St. Patrick's season to explore the broader Irish narrative. Support an Irish shop, support ah an Irish owned restaurant. Why don't you learn a bit of the Irish language for the day? go to a traditional Irish music session of which there are hundreds and thousands across the US, you know, and and watch an Irish film or film, as we say. I laughed so hard at your T-shirt there, like when I saw it earlier, because was like, that is actually a very clever play on words and a clever play on the stereotype that I hadn't seen before. And I'd say, oh, isn't that gas?
00:20:22
Speaker
But then there is a percentage inside us that says, is it a small bit over? Is it having pushed the drinking thing too far now? The Irish use drink as a social, as a you know, the great term of social lubricant. It helps us socialize because as we know, we're an incredibly sort of emotionally reserved country in that we wouldn't, we don't do, we don't talk about therapy. We don't talk about emotions and we just are hardworking people. That just get on with life.
00:20:51
Speaker
And was alcohol then our social outlet? And is it are we still experiencing then that hangover? So there's so much to talk
Revival of the Irish Language and Its Significance
00:20:59
Speaker
about here. Yeah, even can just like the renaissance of the language. I mean, we've even i I have regularly incorporated the Irish tongue and Gaelic and Gaelge. I've set done funerals as Gaelge in Irish. And it's beautiful. Like I've read poems. I've ended funerals on it. Like it's just such a, like I'm so proud of it. I mean, honestly, if you were to talk Irish to me, I probably wouldn't. You know, it i I need to be re-immersed in it and go back to the Gwailtacht, which something we all did is kid as kids in school. and It's such a beautiful language. Like I don't want to lose it. And it's just great to see it coming back. But exactly as the way we keep going,
00:21:37
Speaker
You know, when we have like Irish, or Irish, as we have Women's and Month and we have Black History Month and all of these incredible months that we're doing, like I always say March is like the week and the month is, you know, we've Irish week or whatever. Support an Irish business. Learn a bit of the language. Learn a bit of the culture.
00:21:56
Speaker
I mean, there's just so much to learn about Ireland. and it's it's It's more than just may the rose writes the road rise to meet you, the green beer, getting drunk, the corned beef and cabbage. I mean, I personally never ate corned beef and cabbage growing up.
00:22:11
Speaker
I didn't. I used to be offended by it because people would be it like, that's actually why started my TikTok in the first place was because I lived in Boston, which was a highly concentrated like Irish American and Irish
Food Traditions: Corned Beef and Cabbage
00:22:22
Speaker
population. And it was often the narrative, oh, you're Irish, you must love to drink. a Do you like potatoes? What about tell me about the potato famine? and What's your opinion of the Queen of England? My God, I was never asked that question in my entire life. What what even is her name? I don't even know. I know it's ah it's a man now, right?
00:22:42
Speaker
But so much of that narrative. But at the corned beef and cabbage one was it something that would come up as well. and and I used to be sort of like, we don't eat that. That's not even in Ireland. But what I've come to learn is that it mightn't be Irish, but corned beef and cabbage is so deeply Irish, American. The cultures are similar, not incredibly similar, but we have two things that were we're celebrating here and both of them need to be cherished equally. But when people said, you want corned beef and cabbage, I was like, no, ew, what's that? Yeah. Yeah, well, and it's it's honestly, it's as you just said, it's two separate things that are kind of coexist, right? like So originally, like the, you know, Halloween, the i another Irish holiday, because it was Igan and Saun in general. um Like we know it today as the pumpkins, but originally it was turnips because they couldn't afford, pumpkins weren't a thing we could afford. And that is how corned beef came about, is I grew up having boiled ham, which actually sounds awful, even though it's delicious, boiled ham and cabbage and mashed potato. But corned beef became, because it was the cheaper cut, it was the cheaper meat, it was what they could get, they could avail of the Irish when they first came over here. So, you know, there is like, there is that sort of a, I might react to like, ew, corned beef and cabbage, but that's not what I grew up on because I grew up in Ireland in the 80s and
00:24:08
Speaker
Yeah, like that, the way you just said that, that was so good. It's just, we we have similar stories, we have a similar history, um because, but we may be born or ah we emigrated, so we don't have the exact same story, but um we're still, we're still the same. We're still, we love the crack, fun. I actually put the word frack in a bit today and I was like, I really need to write that this isn't what people think it is. So we do have two different stories. We two different narratives. And who are we to say then as Irish people that your story means less than ours? You know, that's certainly Dawn at home was like, oh the Yanks, the Yanks, the Yanks. And I'll say, well, the Yanks have been incredibly generous to me as an immigrant and I'm flipping delighted to be here. And likewise with you, I'm sure you feel the same way. America has had amazing things to offer us as Irish people, thanks to the paths that our ancestors and their ancestors have paved for us.
00:25:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Cultural Laments: The Sadness in Irish Songs
00:25:11
Speaker
And it's, you know, listen, there's the Irish. i heard it somebody got interviewed where they were talking about the Irish can turn any song, any song whatsoever into a a keening, into a sadness, into a cry. And it's, you know, you and I have chatted about this before, but it's like.
00:25:30
Speaker
as upbeat and as into the crack as the Irish are and you know yes having a few drinks and having a good time is what we're known for we are the we are the greatest complainers and we also turn anything into a sadness like there'll always be a sadness to us which is actually kind of when I think about it maybe that's why Jessie Buckley won and and why she was able to like bring in this sadness to her because we do at our core Irish people will always be able to complain about in everything and we do have this innate kind of a deep down you're right like the word you mentioned there the keening and which is the kind of anglicization for the Irish language word coina which is crying is and that's
00:26:16
Speaker
go way back then into your old funeral and Irish traditions of the Keener, the Ban Quinta, which is the woman who would cry and was hired, actually, to cry at the fields. They were hired. There were multiple women that would come and do this sad wailing that we find a lot now and like remnants of it in the Chano singing, the old style.
00:26:44
Speaker
vocal Irish singing. Wow, that was some pathway we just went from the last conversation. And that's why this episode I think is just so good because I mean, I've had Irish guests on here as well, but we haven't kind of, we've delved in delved into their different stories of loss and love and and or funeral related or whatever it might be. But You know, this is really talking about culture and like, you know, we are this complex combination, which is what I always try to bring into the modern day memorials, which is, you know, this equivalent of celebrating a life and
Celebrating Life and Mourning: An Irish Balance
00:27:18
Speaker
mourning a loss. So this trauma driven sadness that Irish people have innately, but also this other yin to yang. ability to look and have the crack and chat to whoever the person beside you on the bus. Like we just have this beautiful yin and yang in us.
00:27:35
Speaker
You're so great because you and i I, mean, we both know each other. We are well able to complain, but I think our country je It has made such strong, hardworking people that were like, you know what, better days are on the way. We know where to find silver lining in things. And I think that's why as well that, you know, people like us come to the States as well because we have ambition and we're like, there is an opportunity there and there's an opportunity for us to be ourselves as well and actually grow as Irish people, which
Irish Identity in America
00:28:09
Speaker
thankfully... The US has given both of us such a massive stage four and we're so lucky that way. Absolutely.
00:28:15
Speaker
Well, listen, I mean, listen, you and I could chat for forever, but I am going to wipe this up but um on that lovely note of a little bit of crack. maybe a little bit of crying. um Both of them apply both of them to who your St. Patrick's Day or whenever you're listening to this, you know, you can both can coexist at the same time. And that's a very Irish thing to do. um Vivian, before you love and leave us, is there anything you'd like to leave the listeners with on this St. Patrick's Day?
00:28:44
Speaker
Oh, well, if I were to do that, absolutely, is always the Cúp la Fócal. Oh, actually, I've been told on radio shows in America, please don't say the words, a couple of words in Irish because it sounds like a curse word. So Cúp la Fócal. And I think something that you can bring so, so simply and easily into your St. Patrick's Day, some way that you can kind of bring the Irish language into your life as well, more, which is what I'm doing here in the US. I'm trying to help people do is to replace a very, very simple word that we say in English with an Irish one and say the word slán as opposed to bí.
00:29:21
Speaker
So whenever you say goodbye to someone tomorrow or for this month, you can say slán. And what's nice about that is that it's said that the Americans so long, you know, that word that we hear in movies and stuff like that, so long, supposedly comes from the Irish em immigrants coming over, the Irish immigrants coming over and bringing slán with them.
00:29:41
Speaker
That's very cool. I like that. Well, that is a beautiful note to end on. We're going to say so long and slant to you all. We wish you both from both these Irish lasses. We wish you the very best and a safe and happy St. Patrick's Day. And if you want to reach out to Vivian, we're going to leave all her links. I mean, trust me, all you have to do is Google her name and you'll find her. She's everywhere these days and it's a great thing to see. um But yeah, she'd she'd love to hear from you.
00:30:08
Speaker
Reach out to her on Instagram. Say hello. Say slant. Whatever it suits. Thank you, Jennifer Graham. We really appreciate us