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From Try Line to Lifeline: Brent Pope’s Journey Through Darkness and Healing
40 Plays11 days ago
What if one small act of kindness could save a life?
In this deeply moving episode of The Glam Reaper Podcast, We sit down with Brent Pope—a former Rugby and TV pundit turned mental health advocate/super hero to many. Brent opens his heart about his own struggles with anxiety, depression, and grief, and how those battles inspired a global movement rooted in empathy. Through his “Elephant in the Room” project, he’s brought powerful symbols of hope into workplaces, schools, and communities—reminding people that it’s okay to not be okay, and even more okay to talk about it, especially coming from the world of sports.
This conversation isn’t just about mental health—it’s about being human. It’s about showing up for each other, meeting people where they are, and realizing that the most meaningful thing we can give someone is the feeling that they’re not alone.
Key Topics:
-Opening up about mental health struggles and finding healing
-The story behind the Elephant in the Room movement
-How small acts of kindness can truly make a difference
-Why time and connection matter more than anything
-Creating safe spaces for honest conversations and real care
Quotes from the episode:
“The connections that you make in your life—that's what's most important”
-Brent Pope
"Tomorrow is not guaranteed, so pick up the phone, send the damn text, live your life, take the trip—do whatever you can to make your life that marginally bit happier.”
-Jennifer Muldowney
Timestamp:
[00:00] Podcast Intro
[03:01] Brent Pope opened up about his mental health journey and deep passion for art, sharing how a powerful moment on a construction site sparked the idea for a movement.
[10:22] Reflecting on years of personal struggle and his path to becoming a psychotherapist, Brent explained how one honest conversation became the catalyst for a global effort to shift how we approach emotional support in workplaces and beyond.
[20:35] Brent highlighted that real change in mental health culture doesn’t start with policies—it starts with small, human moments of care, listening, and choosing to show up for one another.
[32:22] Speaking with raw honesty, Brent reminded us that healing begins with how we treat ourselves and the people around us—with empathy, presence, and the courage to connect.
[43:13] As the conversation came to a close, Brent urged listeners to stop waiting for “someday” and start living with intention—finding joy in the simple things and making time for what truly matters before it’s too late.
[46:52] Outro
Connect with Brent Pope:
LinkedIn- linkedin.com/in/brent-pope-93a0323b
Instagram -@popeapparel
X- @RealBrentPope
Connect with Jennifer/The Glam Reaper on socials at:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jennifermuldowney/
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@therealglamreaper
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheGlamReaperMuldowney
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifermuldowney/
Facebook Page - https://www.facebook.com/MuldowneyMemorials/
Email us - glamreaperpodcast@gmail.com
Shop Merch - https://the-glam-reaper.printify.me/products
Listen to The Glam Reaper Podcast on Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-glam-reaper-podcast/id1572382989?i=1000525524145
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Transcript
Finding Purpose Through Giving and Caring
00:00:00
Speaker
People don't realize that until they get older in life. Your purpose is very much. Find your purpose in giving back somehow and caring more. That's where people get the rewards. It doesn't matter how much money you have, how many properties you have in Florida or New York, what cars you drive.
00:00:15
Speaker
If you don't care about people and care about yourself, then it's waste of time.
Introduction: The Glam Reaper Podcast and Brent Pope
00:00:33
Speaker
Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Muldenny, aka the Glam Reaper. And on today's episode, I'm very, very excited because I have one of my oldest friends, ah less of the old, one of my dearest friends ah from Ireland, even though we're both, we've both segued. Anyway, we'll get into it.
00:00:55
Speaker
But it's my dear friend, Brent Pope. Brent, welcome. Great sorry to see you. And you yeah i say less of the old viewers. Viewers will be looking in and saying, OK, he's a lot older than her. Yes, I am.
00:01:06
Speaker
Love to hear what you're up to. And I think that's a great that's a great name. But yeah, so that's it. We're both transplants. You originated in New Zealand and now you're in Ireland.
00:01:17
Speaker
I originated in Ireland and now here I am in America. We're both transplants and it is incredible that our our lives linked in many ways. Obviously, we're friends. We've met.
00:01:28
Speaker
We've met on both sides of the pond and everything. I've yet to get to New Zealand, though. That's on my
The 'Elephant in the Room' Initiative
00:01:32
Speaker
bucket list. But one of the things that links us at the moment, which I couldn't believe it when I found out, is you have this beautiful movement you started in Ireland, which is now kind of really hit globally, and called the elephant in the room.
00:01:46
Speaker
And what I find so, wait till you hear the story of this, guys. So years and years ago, so as everybody who's listened at all to this podcast knows, I've been in this business 16 years trying to like change the rhetoric around death, funeral planning and stuff like that. You know, the Irish as we and know are supposed to be good at death. We're not, we're good at funerals. We don't talk about death at all, which we will get into.
00:02:07
Speaker
But years and years ago, I teamed up with a financial planner and ah lawyer. And the three of us put together what we thought was the elephant in the room. So we talk about sex, we don't talk about debt.
00:02:19
Speaker
And so we had branding, we had the domain elephant in the room.ie. And we went to the over 50s shows where we had our beautiful before I die, I want to blackboards at We caught we caused a bit of a ruckus. It was good fun.
00:02:33
Speaker
But we it it's sort of in classic Ireland, you know, it was so hard pulling teeth trying to get people talk about it. So we eventually sort of dissolved that. I kind of moved over to America. So that's where my kind of priorities lay.
00:02:45
Speaker
I'll never forget our conversation where you was telling me this. And I was like, sorry, what? I used to hold my... No, that's But you see, that's it. Because, you know, it's not... It's it's a well it's a well-worn kind of cliche. But it resonated me with the most. And how it came for me was that, you know, I had a gallery...
00:03:06
Speaker
for a couple of years. I love art for a start, you know, and I also
Personal Mental Health Struggles and Insights
00:03:10
Speaker
love that ah New Yorkers or people in the States will know the type of art I collect, which is outsider art or brute art or art uncooked by culture, I think is the best description where people have to do art from mental health organisations, from the homeless, from street kids, from it's very much about doing art for the benefit of of feeling better, well-being.
00:03:32
Speaker
and And I love that type of art. So I had a gallery for a couple of years. I made a documentary on YouTube that was, that I think we got runner up for documentary the year about my love of yeah art And I wanted to get the artists to go to ah to New York for the outsider art fair they have every year. And it was,
00:03:48
Speaker
Artists that I work with in Ireland schizophrenic or in the mental health organization. But anyway, so about four years ago, just before COVID or just after COVID, i can't remember, but was down ah talking to people about mental health, a bit of a background.
00:04:03
Speaker
I've had mental health struggles all my life. ah ranging through everything from anxiety to panic attack, anxiety to depression to suicidal ideology. I've gone through the whole gambit my life.
00:04:14
Speaker
I went back and trained as a psychotherapist, as you know, to put the science behind for my own personal journey. But anyway, i was I'm asked for the last 15 or 16 years since my story came out of shame and guilt and all these things around being a top sports person, not being able to talk about things,
00:04:31
Speaker
I came out of a hotel just speaking to some construction workers. I work very closely with male-dominated areas of employment because that's where the problem area is toxic environment for mental health.
00:04:43
Speaker
Just by working in construction or engineering of these male-dominated areas, you're six or seven more times were more likely to take your own life or self-harm just by working in those industries. But it's a tick box. but So I was coming out and I saw these wonderful cats, all these colored cats in Kilkenny.
00:05:01
Speaker
And I asked the guy in the hotel what they were about. And he said they're a fundraiser for the Kilkenny Cats ah GA side or
Symbolism and Impact of Elephant Sculptures
00:05:10
Speaker
or hurling team. And I just loved them.
00:05:13
Speaker
So then I got on to the guy that that brought them into the country. And I said, can we do something around mental health? And I couldn't decide at that stage what it was. i wanted something that linked some sort of animal to mental health because I was sick of of of going around and talking to these multinationals or companies saying, what are we doing about mental health?
00:05:33
Speaker
And they would say, oh, well, you know, we've got mental health first aiders or we're doing this or we're doing that. But it was never enough for me. And people tell me all the time things are changing, gene but they're not. You know, what are young people talking about now? Who are they talking to is the more pertinent questions we should be asking.
00:05:48
Speaker
So then I was speaking to some Eastern European ah workers on a construction site, big macho men, tattered up. you know, big, strong, manly men.
00:05:59
Speaker
And one of them came to me after my talk and said, Brent, I can't tell the guys I work with on site every day that I don't like alcohol. And I said, what do you mean? He said, um I'm 55 or whatever. He said, I'm working away from home. He said, I'm stuck down the country on a contract. And he said, every night, the young fellas on the site knock on my door and say, come down the pub.
00:06:18
Speaker
I'm encouraged to go down there. And he said, I can't tell them when I'm down there. I'm to have a few pints. wake up the next day. said, I'm in bits. And he said, it's my elephant the room. And that affects my mental health. and And that was it. That was a eureka moment for me. I didn't, I wasn't certainly going back and say, oh, Jean came up a few years ago. Well, for sure, she told me.
00:06:37
Speaker
So then started about the journey about kind of what the elephant room means to people. And it really means to me is we know when someone says that about allies that we don't want to go there.
00:06:50
Speaker
You know, so so that's where it started. But I wanted to link it specifically to mental health. And I know there's other mental health in the rooms going in the in the US and that, but it's not as specific to be linked to the sculpture and to the fact that when somebody sees an elephant out there, physical elephant, that's all painted up and that it's ah it becomes a symbol of hope and and permission.
00:07:13
Speaker
Hope that there's a chance of recovering permission that, you know, it's not weak to speak. So that's where it started. And I like i couldn't have believed in it a bit like, I suppose, as you a few years ago. I couldn't believe to where it's gone now.
00:07:27
Speaker
It's gone exponential. I'm meeting people every day around you know different issues of of mental health i've presented with some of the top people in the world i've shared the stage with gabba mate and win hoff and all these guys now we're gone global now i think we've moved um i think 120 elephants in a year in ireland into corporates into into schools into traveling community into universities it's gone crazy Yeah, I remember walking or around Trinity College and you telling me the concept and everything about it. And it has, it's just it's been great to watch and see it grow. And, you know, what fun it was. I think it was last year when I got to see one of the elephants in person in New York.
00:08:15
Speaker
In New York, yeah. yeah Yeah, it was it was great to just see it because you really saw physically you saw the global impact that it's having. It's a physical manifestation.
00:08:26
Speaker
i get emails every day, Jane, from, I just got an email two weeks ago that that means the most to me when I get an email from real people. A young Indian girl that had come over from Calcutta or whatever to work in in Dublin and she was a bit scared, obviously coming to another country, you know, not no friends, no family over there. And she went into work on the first day and she said, I saw one of your wonderful elephants in the workplace. And she said, I read the little print because it comes with a ah message that you're in a safe place. You're in a place where you can talk to somebody about if something is going on. she said She said, I just felt so relieved that I was in a place where someone cared about my mental health. And I thought, that's it.
00:09:08
Speaker
That's all it has to be. We're not about
Elephants in Corporates, Schools, and Communities
00:09:10
Speaker
we're not but about going into companies and saying this is the strategies you should have. No, we're about it's got to start somewhere and it will always start with a conversation.
00:09:19
Speaker
It will always start with the conversation with someone. We tell ourselves the greatest lie that we can tell ourselves sometimes and that lie is that nobody cares. But if you're willing to reach out and be brave enough to talk to somebody, somebody will always care.
00:09:33
Speaker
You know, yeah save lives, you know. Yeah, absolutely. No, it's so I just for it for I guess folks that maybe don't understand what it is, you have these giant elephants and they're they're the size of me. I'm five, so seven, like they're close to the size of me.
00:09:50
Speaker
foot, six foot, i think that. Yeah, they're huge. And you have them decorated by certain artists. Right. And then whether you're corporate or depending on the situation, you take in on this elephant.
00:10:05
Speaker
and put it in your room and the idea is that you are saying you're open for conversation so absolutely that yeah that's a really perfect summation but you know and in in more words words that than i use but you're right so that when somebody goes into this organization like a google or a linkedin all these companies were working with kpmg grant thorns and all these companies when they go into the room there's the elephant pride in place in the foyer they're driven to go over and take a photo or have a look at the on the plinth and on the plinth it has while you're working here or something we care about your mental health and your family's mental health and your colleagues mental health that you're in a safe place where somebody is thinking about that and it's worth more than all the brochures you can have out there because suddenly people are in it and they see it and they thought wow
00:10:55
Speaker
They love the elephant for a start. I mean, they're pieces of art. We've got people lifing them up with neon. We've got people with, you know, we have some company did one and all sort of got that glows up at night and all these things. So not only is it a piece of art, it's also a kind of a sign of permission to talk about things before, sadly, before it's too late for some people, as we know, because I'm trying, of the 500 people that will take their lives in Ireland next year,
00:11:23
Speaker
we're not really signposted to look after our mental health. Men come to me all the time and say, we're never taught to look after our mental health. And yeah the message out there is killing us. You know, it's an epidemic now around the world of ah people taking their own lives and in different age groups. I mean, there's a spike now with young, yeah I just had a message from an email today to see if I could help out a parent that nine-year-old daughter is is talking about things about suicide and that. And I thought, wow, wow.
00:11:50
Speaker
Like we've got to get to these people a lot younger. So that's why we have a social justice program involved now where we're getting them out to schools, especially schools in disadvantaged areas in Ireland where they where they really need them.
00:12:02
Speaker
Because, you know, the elephant means so much to these young people that they kind of adopted as their show ah of of hope and strength. Because some of these kids can't go and share what's going on in their lives now.
00:12:16
Speaker
you know yeah maybe going home to domestic violence, maybe going home to bullying, maybe going home to sexual abuse. And they can't feel that they can reach out to anybody, but they feel they can reach out to ah kind of a an elephant. it's We get reports back all the time. mean, how powerful is this?
00:12:31
Speaker
In one of the schools, they had a blank elephant and the kids are coming up and writing what's going in their lives, and ah and a pen on the side of the elephant. And it's saving lives, because I've got teachers come back to me and say, Brent, we we managed to get be able to get to this young boy, this young girl, before ponds arose because of what they'd written.
00:12:50
Speaker
Might have been, you know, my mother is a drug addict, or... like That's where it's working. You know, yeah and I mean, you know, I'm more about that than probably the corporate space.
00:13:01
Speaker
Now, we need the corporate space because the funds that we we sell them and they're a reinvent or redistributed into the social justice program, which is getting them out to schools, traveling community and that at more or less for nothing or at cost.
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah. No, it's it's a huge... It's a huge problem. It's a huge problem. And also then, also if you're in ah if you're in a bigger network, you know, we put CSR codes on. If you want to use Elephant to fundraise, if companies want to drive people to their to their social platforms, whatever they have in place, that's fine.
00:13:36
Speaker
I'm not about that. I'm just saying that, you know, in my life... I wished I'd seen an elephant before I thought it was too late. I wished I had been able to see a symbol of hope and that it was okay, that it wasn't weak to speak. Because as you know, my life, my life story is I don't want people to have struggled like I've struggled. I don't want people to go through the teenage years I went through where I was angst-driven and depressed and suicidal and all those things, you know, had suicidal thoughts. That's a scary place to for anybody to be.
00:14:05
Speaker
Yeah. and And we mask it, you know. We mask it. So everybody out there that you see that is walking around the workplace or in life and they're happy out, they're the very people that you hear a year later, they're gone.
00:14:19
Speaker
And you can't
The Influence of Social Media on Mental Health
00:14:20
Speaker
understand because if I was talking to you from a place of ah of a physical injury, You know, you would understand if I was talking to you saying, OK, look, i i you know, even, you know, I've had something like cancer or something, you would understand because what we don't understand is, I suppose, that the rippling effect or the shrapnel effect of mental health. And if we view it as an illness, if we view it as an illness, that's a start because for most people, it is an illness.
00:14:45
Speaker
Yes. Not unlike, you know, i just talking to someone today about anorexia. And I said, you have to realize that anorexia or that way of thinking is an illness. It's not just an an ability to like food or enjoy food. That's naivety.
00:14:59
Speaker
But I said, it's an illness. So why can't somebody why can't somebody be thinking about their life as an illness? They're dealing with an illness. And like any other illness, if you don't get yourself sorted, then it gets worse. So what I'm saying to people is, look, share what's going on with someone, be more vulnerable with your yourself and welcome back the vulnerability of ah of people coming back to you and just get the help you need and move on to live wonderful, purposeful lives because, you know, mental health is important. If we put the same importance on our mental health as you do on our physical health, then we'd be in much better place. But people don't understand that. They know to go to the gym or they know to go to the doctor with a sprained ankle or they know to go to the doctor and get tests and that if they think they've got something.
00:15:44
Speaker
But they don't. They're not brave enough yet. There's still the stigma attached around approaching somebody and talking about your elephant. Everybody has an elephant. Even you, Jen. Everybody has an elephant.
00:15:55
Speaker
They don't want to go. read Absolutely. And ah it was only said to me recently, you know, oh, Jen, you're always so positive. You're this and the other. I said, here's the thing. You never make assumptions about somebody else's life because what we put on social media and what we do, that's always the better side of us and the glamorous side. Even I laugh whenever I say the words the glam reaper because I no more think of myself as glamorous. I'm like, you can never make assumptions that somebody is in a better place. And like I do.
00:16:25
Speaker
But we do. That's the danger social media. To be honest, that's the big danger. Social media and and the internet and all that, if you want to go back to old school, has been brilliant in some regards as far as knowledge and learning more about the world. But my God, for mental health, it's been yeah it's been the opposite because everybody, young person there, is looking at these lies of perfection, of validation.
00:16:47
Speaker
They're looking at what the perfect body looks like, what the perfect holiday looks like. You know, you get... these influences and that on TikTok and that saying this is the life that everybody should be leading.
00:16:58
Speaker
That's not real. Yeah, know it's not real. And you're right. and we make If we start making assumptions about people, you know, without really knowing what's going on, that's a very dangerous area to be because you can look at the person that's the class clown or the teen joker or somebody that's always seems to have no problems.
00:17:15
Speaker
They're nine times out of ten the people that are actually hiding something. They're the people that are, you know, and I know what that's about, as do you. I know all about masking, you know, saying, oh, look, I'm not going to talk to that about that person. They'll think I'm, you know, they'll think I'm weak and they'll think yeah less of a man if I start talking about problems. So you bury them and hoping they don't come back. But I'm telling you now, if you're listening, you know, you don't sort them. They will come back and they come back in far greater numbers, you know, later on in life if you just keep pushing things under the rug and not the dressing room.
00:17:45
Speaker
And it's something that we've actually talked about on this podcast quite a bit, because obviously mental health and grief is inextricably leaked. And it's it absolutely if you don't address it, you and you just keep burying it. I'm fine. Everything's fine. I'm fine. Be grand. Which is such an Irish attitude.
00:18:03
Speaker
um It is going to come back and it's going to bite us all over. We asked. Yeah. Absolutely. Grief, you know, let alone grief around, you know, somebody taking their own life or, as I said, the shrapnel of grief.
00:18:16
Speaker
The shrapnel of grief affects everybody. I mean, you know, it's the thing I always say, look, we can't do this world alone, despite what we think. We can't. and And sometimes in the life, we're all going to lose somebody that we love.
00:18:28
Speaker
We're all going to, you know, yeah life can't go on if you don't lose somebody along the way that you love. And You know, everybody will have to overcome grief at some stage. But yeah if you get trapped in this vicious circle, in my world and people like me, when I say people like me,
00:18:43
Speaker
A problem so often shared is also a problem so often harmed. That's the way I look at it. You can share. I'm not asking everybody to run out there this afternoon say, here's all my problems and burdensome. No, but that won't happen.
00:18:56
Speaker
Or asking people to just try to be a bit more vulnerable with your own feelings so that you welcome somebody else being vulnerable with you. And also, don't try to be a fixer for everybody. Be a listener. Don't be a fixer. Be someone that says, hey,
00:19:10
Speaker
I don't necessarily understand what you're going through. i My life is good, but I'm here for you. I love you. I care for you. I'm there for you 24 hours a day if you want to
The Role of Kindness and Connection in Well-being
00:19:20
Speaker
call me. That's the kind of talk we need to talk, not somebody saying, oh, look, go to the gym or go for a walk in nature or go for a cold swim or whatever.
00:19:28
Speaker
That works for me. No, because everybody's individual. Everybody, what going people are going through at different stages in their life is all individual. So less of the fixing, more of the Greater understanding and awareness and support is the way that I love it.
00:19:42
Speaker
And it is, it can be a very difficult thing to to listen and to and you know to to open your empty bucket and let somebody pour into it all their sorrows and woes without wanting or having the ability to fix it. I know a lot of people turn to me, i think because I am an oversharer by heart.
00:20:01
Speaker
As much as my mother would absolutely, like, as always, really stop telling everybody everything. But because I'm an oversharer, people, I guess, are like, okay, well, Jen is, I tell people the good, the bad, the ugly.
00:20:13
Speaker
And so they'll tell me. and But it can feel very, very, oh, God, it's humbling for sure. But it's it's very difficult to see somebody you care about in pain without being able to do something about it.
00:20:24
Speaker
It's really Of course. But, I mean, what you said is is is a lovely part of you. Yeah. people don't have that ability and and and that's it i say to people when somebody comes to you with something see it as a compliment you know it's not i mean it's not somebody pushing somebody away it's somebody saying i trust you enough to share what's going on yeah with me and yes you can go i'm not i'm not saying that we we have to be a we have to be a ah non-fixer all the time i'm just saying that's where it usually starts and then you just go through the through the gears and say okay well look you know
00:20:58
Speaker
I think ah my advice would be maybe go and see someone or or a therapist or maybe go and and exercise more than that. But do it in a way that's supportive rather than kind of saying, oh, well, you know, this should work for you because it worked for them. That's all I'm talking about. ah And there's there's a line between being supportive and saying this might just work, you know, if you maybe give up the drink, if you maybe give up the cigarettes, if you maybe give up the nightclub life.
00:21:24
Speaker
That might help. I'm not telling you should do that. I'm just saying it might help. that's That's a way of doing it as opposed to saying, well, hey, the number of times I was told to go for walk, you know, that'll work for you. I was even told Nyland, you know, meet up with a few friends for a couple of pints and that'll sort it all out. And I said, no, it's not that. It's just about knowing that someone cares about you inside, you know, like...
00:21:50
Speaker
You know, a lot of things, ah a lot of things you know, are visual in this in this world now. You know, what you look like, what clothes you wear, what cars you drive. It's all a visual thing. And rather than, ah remember ah wonderful thing a young a young girl said to me a few years ago when I was saying is she had Her relationship with the mother had broken down and she wasn't in a good and place in her life at all. And when I went to see her again or something, you won't go into too much detail, but I just saw the relationship with the mother who she loved had come back. They reconnected.
00:22:23
Speaker
And I said to her, what was the secret? What... What bridged that gap? And she just said, her mother said the most loving thing she'd ever said to her. And i said, well, what was that? and she said, I don't get it, but I get you.
00:22:34
Speaker
And I thought that was lovely. And that sums it up. I don't get it, but I get you. Stop trying to understand what somebody else is going through, but get them. Just say, Ben, I don't know what you're going through. I don't know what grief you've got to go through. I don't know that.
00:22:47
Speaker
But I know that I care about you and I get you. Yeah. you know And I always go back to that place when I start finding myself trying to fix someone. I always go back to that thing and say, no, it's not about me.
00:22:59
Speaker
It's not about my ego and trying to fix someone. i got him sorted something. It's about saying, hey, I don't know what's going on in your life. like I have a lesser way knowing if you don't tell me, but I'm not going to sit there and say, oh, well, do this, do that, and break up with her, don't break up with him, get over her, don't get over as I'm not about that. I'm just about saying, hey, most importantly, I'm here for you. you know And if you need help or if you need me to go hand in hand with you to see someone or talk to someone in HR or down the office or to a principal, then I'm here for you because –
00:23:32
Speaker
The way through the mental health crisis, and it is a crisis, is an epidemic, is through care. Yeah. Not through all these strategies. It's through caring about people, caring about yourself, caring about your own mental health, and then paying it forward.
00:23:45
Speaker
but what That's where your purpose in life is. yeah People don't realize that until they get older in life. Your purpose very much. Find your purpose in giving back somehow and caring more. That's where people get the rewards. It doesn't matter how much money you have, how many properties you have in Florida or New York, what cars you drive.
00:24:02
Speaker
If you don't care about people and care about yourself, then it's waste of time. Yeah, it's really and truly it's about
Interconnection of Grief and Mental Health
00:24:10
Speaker
meeting people where where they're at. And we talk about this or, ah you know, we've talked about this in the funeral space. But even in this space, it's which they're so interconnected. It's wild. But, you know, it's when you've got somebody, whether it's a friend, family member or just a random person, I guess, in some ways, who's opened up. ah I know people who've opened it to me at an airport bar and they just start.
00:24:33
Speaker
offloading but sometimes it's just being there and meeting them where they're at not where I need them to be you know oh I you know and sometimes I do think that can be difficult that's not a fluke that's not a fluke Jen because they see something in you or people like you you see something in that gives them the safety yeah people often come up to me and I said look again this is not about ego if you can't talk to your wife fine you can't talk to your wife if you can't talk to your husband about this fine you can't talk to your husband but please find someone yeah you can talk to. it It may be a random at work.
00:25:06
Speaker
It may be that person that I've never met. and and And at that time, you just feel like I've got to tell someone. I can't get over this heartbreak. I can't get over this grief. And I just need to share it with someone.
00:25:17
Speaker
I'm suggesting that you find somebody to share with. Because what's the alternative? The alternative is is people sitting on their end of beds in in Ireland, as in the States, all around the world, thinking about ending their life.
00:25:31
Speaker
you know, a permanent solution a lot of ways to a temporary problem. yeah If you can just reach out at that time of need and say, hey, recognize that you need to talk to somebody before it's too late. And I yeah often talk about that U2 song, you know, I've been Irish and I talk to...
00:25:48
Speaker
interviewed Adam Clayton, it's very much around that it stuck in a moment and can't get out of it because sometimes that's the way that you feel. And it doesn't matter how long that time is. If it's one week, if it's five minutes, if it's five years, if it's 20 years, you can find yourself stuck pretty quickly.
00:26:04
Speaker
And that's the scary thing about mental health is that you can go from a place of relative kind of looking out the window when somebody like me comes into a room and talks about mental health saying, ah, you know, life is good for me now.
00:26:16
Speaker
I'm doing well and things are going well. You don't know what you're faced with in in the next five minutes of your life. yeah Nobody does. Now, nobody does. So I say you to men in particular, men in particular, have you your toolbox ready.
00:26:31
Speaker
And what's in your toolbox? How, if you're overwhelmed by grief, breakup of a marriage or breakup of relationship, the death of somebody that you love, that can happen like that.
00:26:41
Speaker
Are you ready for it? And do you know how to look after your mental health through that period? Quite often the answer for for men will be no, no. no because they've never been in that position. Suddenly they find themselves in that position.
00:26:54
Speaker
And that's a really, really dangerous area to be because that's when you get into the situation we're stuck in a moment and feel that you can't get out of it. Yeah. That's when you really need to reach out. you know I went to the grief conference in Dublin, actually, before Christmas.
00:27:10
Speaker
and That sounds like an unusual event, doesn't it? But you know me, I love my funeral fantasy about what are doing on Friday night? Oh, I'm going to the grief conference.
00:27:21
Speaker
Yep, that's Jen's life. and They actually said something um really interesting that we're kind of touching on. And I just now it's kind of stuck in my brain.
00:27:31
Speaker
And it was, you know, we have all these professionals, like we have, a you know, surgeons who do brain surgery and heart surgery. And we have lawyers who do. And we have funeral professionals who do, you know, our funeral directors that.
00:27:43
Speaker
But when we have grief therapists and psychotherapists and we have all of this, these professionals, but what they talked about at the grief conference was how do we how do we empower the community to help people in grief?
00:27:56
Speaker
Because exactly what you've been touching on the whole time, it starts with a conversation and more likely than not, it doesn't start with a conversation with a professional. It's you reaching out with palm your mom, your dad, your sister, somebody in the bar and realize either you realizing or them helping you to realize that, you know what, I need to see a professional. But you sometimes can't afford a professional.
00:28:19
Speaker
Sometimes you you live too far away. You could be in rural Ireland, you know, and like you mentioned, the the gentleman who was sort of in the middle of nowhere, you know, just with these guys. So obviously with and COVID, thanks to COVID in a sense, we're now everything's a lot of things are online and the streaming. And so there is access, more access, but it still needs to be your community around you. Like and training the likes me, who's not a licensed professional in in any way, shape or form.
00:28:48
Speaker
How can I help people when they do come to? Exactly. Look, yeah yeah yeah you summed it up perfectly again, gene you know, fear play to you, because it all is down to that.
00:28:59
Speaker
We all have the responsibility, not the responsibility necessarily, we all have the ability to change a life with a smile, with a kind word, with a hug when it's needed. That's where it starts.
00:29:10
Speaker
And it's like asking, and again, it's when I say when I'm out talking to to to groups, I said, you know what, we can't expect somebody that's an alcoholic to go to the 12-step program when they don't first admit that they've got a drinking problem.
00:29:23
Speaker
And it's the same with mental health. What are we pushing people to go and talk to somebody professionally for before they're ready to share something with somebody that they know that cares?
00:29:33
Speaker
Because there's got to be, as you said, there's got to be community care, there's got to be self-care, there's got to be always a look in it. But if you march into a supermarket and you say hello to somebody or you smile at them or something and say, are you okay or something like that, you could be in that moment just enough.
00:29:50
Speaker
yeah that are saving their day or saving their life. How many times have we seen when you've done a random act of kindness or something for good, you come away from that event feeling the kind of warm
Community and Self-Care in Mental Health
00:30:00
Speaker
fuzzies that I call it. You say, hey, yeah I'm not such a bad person after all because you've just stopped to talk to somebody that you otherwise wouldn't have spoke to. You've you've thrown a diamond to to a homeless hat or something.
00:30:11
Speaker
You've done something that makes you feel better about who you are as a person. And that's all about care. That's all about care. So don't be so judgmental. It's easy to say. Don't be so ah sort of driven about, you know, what you expect other people to be.
00:30:27
Speaker
Just take people at face value and be kind. That's where it starts. Be kind and be caring. yeah You know, if if we all felt that way, I'm not saying we get it right, but alllthough wouldn't it be a far better world to live in if everybody just tried to be kinder to each other rather than this rat race about greed and about getting one up and on somebody else and Because the most important thing you can do in your life, and that just doesn't come from me, is is the connections that you make in your life.
00:30:56
Speaker
That's what's most important. That's what's most purposeful in anybody's life. The connections you've made over your life, whether it's with your partner, whether it's with your kids, whether it's with your your grandkids, whether it's with your parents, they are the most important things you can do in your life.
00:31:10
Speaker
So forget about everything else. The connections you make in your in your life are the things that will make you happy. Yeah, yeah. Because if you to your phone, and I'm sure I do this exercise. I'm sure if you went into your phone and looked at yeah and your profile picture, it would either have a picture of yourself or would have picture your family.
00:31:30
Speaker
It might be picture of your dad and your mom. It might be they are the other people that mean the most in your life. And somebody said that to me. I said, wow. Everybody in the room put up their hand and said, what are your pictures of?
00:31:40
Speaker
And it was either a dog. If they didn't have family, it was a dog or something so or a pet that they loved. It was family members that loved. and was It was their kids. It was their wife. It was their husband. That's what matters.
00:31:51
Speaker
It wasn't a picture of them at work on the computer. It wasn't a picture of them. Well, it may have been to some people in the Lamborghini or something like that. But I just think that's sad. And I think when you look at your phone, you say, they're the most important people in my life.
00:32:05
Speaker
They're the people you will go to that care. yeah And yet if we find those people, fantastic. And if we don't, try to find them. Yeah. And even actually, even if it's a photo of you smiling, it's still like that, like as Whitney, as Whitney said, loving yourself is the greatest love of all.
00:32:23
Speaker
Because that's that's it. Like the there's so many people out there who are hurting themselves because of the way you know, their illness. let's be show Look after your wellbeing, feel good about yourself.
00:32:35
Speaker
If it's, you know, affirmations or whatever like that, but you know, ah look into your own life and say, you know, the question you ask is, you know, am I essentially a good person? Am I essentially a kind person? Look to your traits that, that really matter and, you know, embellish them.
00:32:51
Speaker
So yeah, I've made mistakes. We've all made mistakes in our lives and nobody is perfect. I'm not saying that, but, there There is perfection in everybody if you look for it. you know Everybody can say that, yes, you know the way they but they treat their family, the way they treat their mother, the way they treat the other is a loving thing to do.
00:33:08
Speaker
They may outtreat people work like that, but there's always there's always some good in most people. Yeah, one of my favorite sayings is actually that, and you know, we're perfectly imperfect.
00:33:19
Speaker
Yeah, perfectly imperfect. He is perfect in the on this planet. And and all anybody who's listening and whatever social media you're looking at, whether it's mine or anybody else's, let me tell you, it is so far from perfect.
00:33:33
Speaker
um And that's, I mean, you see yeah, you see these TikToks and they're a day in my life. I mean, would you style it? The plate, burger, the perfect outfit, the put you know. Perfect burger doesn't exist.
00:33:46
Speaker
What is it? why You're not perfect, but there's just parts of you that are, Jim. Yeah. That's it. We're just we just ill be looking at it. None of us have the perfect lives. None of us are perfect. but And we're lucky if we get some of the way down to, you know, enjoying happiness and the things we have and that. But And that lesson is learned over yeah over your life, which is really important at the end of the day.
00:34:06
Speaker
You know, and that that's for some people, that takes longer to get to than others. You know, some people find their purpose or their happiness at 15. Other people don't find it until they're 85. You know, but yeah it's all a journey.
00:34:18
Speaker
yeah That old creature, it's very much that it's very much the journey rather than the destination, because at end of the day, as you know, we all end up the same place. we we most certainly We most certainly do. and That's where you come That's where I come in.
00:34:33
Speaker
Yeah, but it's, um you know, I've done way too many suicide funerals over the last couple of years. It's it's been just, and it's hard. Yeah. I'm telling you now, now, not because I work in the area, which I do. So I'm going to be told that every week I meet someone that has been touched, that knows somebody like even, you know, a couple of weeks ago, a neighbor come down, they've lost ah two out of a group of four, five friends.
00:35:00
Speaker
I know what that feels like. I lost, I've lost too many friends and in my life, not to try to make a difference, you know, in in the sense of, trying to to save people, you know, we we won't save them all, but we can sure as hell try to make a difference and in saying to people, look, back in my days, you know, as a big, strong, professional rugby player, it wasn't okay to talk about your yeah your mental health. It wasn't. Yeah.
00:35:25
Speaker
I very much felt, you know, that it was weak to speak. You know, I couldn't go to, I couldn't turn around to teammates, you know, big, strong weightlifting men and say, hey, I've got problems around nothing to do with physical because everything was always linked back to the, if you're physically okay, you've got to be mentally okay.
00:35:43
Speaker
But that's not the case, you know, because, you know, people that are taking their own lives can be lawyers, doctors, as they can be opposed to laborers. Like it, it doesn't, you know, it's not defined by gender or sexuality or age or race or anything like that. It's just people getting stuck.
00:36:01
Speaker
Yeah. They can't get out of it. Yeah. Yeah. yeah they just find that They find there's no reason to go on anymore. And you
Mental Health in Sports and Masculine Cultures
00:36:10
Speaker
know that sometimes comes with a sense of relief too. Some people, the question often asked to me is, you know but Brent, I saw this woman at work last week and she was and she was in rude good health and she was in enjoying life. And I saw this guy at the rugby club or the GA club.
00:36:27
Speaker
My God, it was the life and soul the party, and now he's gone. And I said, but sometimes when somebody has made a decision that the pain is going to end on a particular day or a particular time, that the pain is going to go away, that they maybe had for years, especially in grief, that the grief will be gone, there's some relief for that.
00:36:45
Speaker
I'm just trying to get, I'm trying to stop people getting that far down the laneway that, again, that they feel that there's no turning back. Because there is always...
00:36:56
Speaker
a place that you can turn back. No matter what you're going through, if you're listening that, no matter what where you find yourself in life, and if you're in a dark place, know that you've got to reach out.
00:37:09
Speaker
Find the bravery, the courage from someone, whatever word you want to describe, and reach out and talk to somebody. and get your lives back on track. I'm not saying it's that simple. For some of us, it'll take years.
00:37:20
Speaker
But it's a years in recovery. And it's something that if you don't start that conversation with someone, then you're in a, urine of quite frankly, you're in a dangerous area. Because as I said you before, we can't do this world alone, Jen. We can't.
00:37:34
Speaker
we We all need support. We all need care. We all need somebody to tell us that they love us and care of them. We all need that. Yeah. I've never met anybody in any walk of life that hasn't said, you know, that they love those things being said when, you know.
00:37:48
Speaker
So the other thing is, what's so wrong with going and telling someone that you care about or that you love them or something, you know, rather than say, oh, no, I'll tell them, I'll tell them next week or I'll tell, or they know or something. Do they really know? did you know, yeah I don't know.
00:38:02
Speaker
ah can I can't answer that question. Life is too short. And actually, that's something that we're always talking about on this podcast is if there is one thing I could tell you that I've learned from my career working in death is life is short. it Tomorrow is not guaranteed. And so pick up the phone, send the damn text, live your life, take the trip, do whatever you can do to make your life that marginally bit happier and just It's our greatest asset.
00:38:30
Speaker
yeah I often them ask this question um again when I'm out there when that they're talking. I often say to people, what do you think is your greatest asset? And I'll get the stock answer. Your health is your wealth. No, it's time because we don't none of us know how much time we have.
00:38:44
Speaker
So how are you using your time? How are you best using your time? That's the question we should be asking, not the questions around, oh, you know, because you can be you can be the healthiest person in the world and and and be diagnosed with lung cancer tomorrow. Yeah. And so your health is not your wealth.
00:39:01
Speaker
What your wealth is is is, is time and how that is best spent. And I
Embracing Life and Addressing Mortality
00:39:05
Speaker
say it to most people, you know, at some stage, put down a list of of of ah if you had limited time, because we all do,
00:39:12
Speaker
Or where you would like to spend that time or who would, no you know, would it be traveling? Would it be with family members? Would it be friends? Would it be with pets? Would it be learning a musical instrument? I don't know.
00:39:23
Speaker
But then on the other side, I'd say, but where am I spending most of my time now? And you'll get two different answers from most people. Most it would be or too much time at work, too much time stressing out about this, too much time trying to get on the property ladder. no I'm suggesting that you take some of that time and invest it into the best use of time.
00:39:41
Speaker
yeah If you need to spend a little time with your family or pets, do it. Find the time. Find the time to do something you enjoy every day. Yeah. Whether it's a movie, whether it's a book, whether it's a walk around the park, whether it's a, you know, a date night.
00:39:55
Speaker
Because you're right. Life is too short. And suddenly we turn around and suddenly we're my age. You look back and you say, yeah, man, wish I'd have done that. You're only a spring chicken. I'm chicken.
00:40:08
Speaker
It is. It's so true. And I have seen, i mean, I can't kind of talk about it, but I have seen extremely notable, wealthy, various different people dead, you know, and i've I've looked at them and I've taken time to just look at them and say, my gosh, you know, the whole world had you on such and such pedestals.
00:40:29
Speaker
And yet here you are the same as as a person next to you as could be could be a homeless person could be. it just It doesn't matter if your creed, your culture, it none of it sort of matters at the end of the day. Our skeletal remains are we go out the way we came in, but naked effectively, you know, it's.
00:40:48
Speaker
No, that's it. There's only two times in your life you won't live you won't live for 24 hours. It's when you're born. It's when you die. Yeah. other than that Other than that, every day is is is a 24-hour period, you know.
00:41:03
Speaker
Yeah. But look, you know, that's not to say that it's that that it's easy to comprehend. But, you know, at some stage, everybody needs to kind of, I'm not saying, you know, everybody needs to look at their mortality, yeah you know, and and and look at it and say, okay,
00:41:18
Speaker
before it becomes a shock you know see people just presume you know I suppose like everybody and like me and like you and like most people out there listening if anybody's still listening to me most people most people take up a life expectancy and say okay well look odds are i get to 75 or a man who's or 80 or something odds are so what am I worried about it now 45 and 55 or something but it's sometimes it's a case of, know, you've spoken to people with terminal diagnosis as I have, and and quite often it's it's less of the why me and some more of the why not me. You know, I'm i i'm not a saint. I'm nobody perfect. i
00:41:58
Speaker
You know, why should I be given more time than... the person down the road that has never smoked or had a drink in their life or something no it's random and that's a scary thing about it we don't always get we don't always get out of life what we put in sometimes meaning that you know somebody can come to with this perfect lifestyle as far as eating right and exercise and all these things and other ones come back and say brent i've got lung cancer i've got to be a year to live yeah So it's all about, it's all about ah said before, it's all about what imprint did you leave you know while you were here? what What difference did you make to to to other people's lives yeah and to your own life? but That's the questions we should be asking. But unless you face and this you face a sort of a situation where you you think about your mortality and say, okay, well...
00:42:46
Speaker
you know how should I be looking at this for the for the rest of my life? there You don't know how long God has given you if you're not religious whatever. you don't You don't know that. So it's a about saying, okay, given that limited time, what would make me most happy and how I spend that time?
00:43:03
Speaker
Yeah. Like what? Yeah. When I'm lying on my deathbed, what will I be thankful for? Or at least. And you travel into your 80s? Possibly not. Yeah. So when people come back to me and say, oh, well, you I'm going to retire, Brent. And then I'm going to, you know, in when I save enough money in my 80s, I'd like to see parts of the world. And I said, what?
00:43:24
Speaker
You know might not be able to travel in your 80s, John. or whatever like So look at putting that in place now. I'm not asking everybody to go out and and and travel the world. you know Maybe I am, but you know it's it's just taking some of that list out. I'm not asking people to transfer and say, go out and blow all your family's earnings on a Lamborghini because you want always wanted to have one from a kid. All I'm saying is that if you enjoy certain things in your life, simple things...
00:43:49
Speaker
then just do more of them. Yeah. And just be... It actually... There's something in your life. Go and travel. Yeah. The simple things are usually the best in life, you know, so...
00:44:01
Speaker
I think that's a wonderful rock-off. Way to end. But I just want to finish up. we've but we've got but we've had a bit but As you know, we've had a bit of interest in the in the States, and we've also had interest from some of these big and NFL teams.
00:44:18
Speaker
I'd love to see i'd love to see ah an elephant outside a gym in one of the, whether it's the Chicago Bears or Jets or something like that, that just says to the athletes, hey, we're looking after your mental health as much as your physical health.
00:44:33
Speaker
though They're okay to go into a gym and see all the the the bars and the weights and everything like that. What are we doing in sport in particular to look after players' mental health?
00:44:43
Speaker
And when I watch all those things on Netflix about American sport, i look at the you look at all the stars out there, but where's the underpinning for those people that are suddenly cut from a roster?
00:44:56
Speaker
Or suddenly they're told that, okay, you know football is not in your future. You've got an injury something. You can't play again. It's devastating. But what are we doing for those people's mental health? What are we doing to say that while you play for the Knicks or whatever like that, we care about your mental health as much as we care about your physical health?
00:45:14
Speaker
Because at the end of the day, when talking to coaches, that is how you get the most out of somebody, by looking after their mental health and their physical health. And it's a holistic view on performance. And it's the same in businesses.
00:45:26
Speaker
The way you get the best out of your staff is you look after them mentally and you look after them physically. You give them a safe, productive place to work where they can be vulnerable, where they're encouraged to talk about things and move on.
00:45:39
Speaker
That's how you get the best return. Bang it for butts if you like it. People don't see it that way still. Yeah, absolutely. Well, check out elephantintheroom.ie is the best way, right? We're going to... Not the earliest site that Jen had, but my site.
00:45:55
Speaker
Yeah, I know. I do think that's so weirdly Kizwa, though. That's wild. like where It's also, I didn't know, are that and that what you you might have told me before, but i didn't know until you told me now, but, you know.
00:46:07
Speaker
Yeah, as long as we have, as long as we're addressing the elephant in the room, that's that's all I care about. It's just, we're tackling it from different angles, that's all. Well, you're doing the same, and you're doing a you know great job. I mean, you know, you're in a job that everybody has to use at some stage, aren't they? So, you know, it's like, you're...
00:46:24
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining us on the Glamour River podcast. You're a rock star and everyone check out elephantintheroom.ie and check out Brent. I mean, just Google him. Just Google the man.
00:46:37
Speaker
Just Google me. Get me out of the US. Yes. Let's bring him.