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Letters, Loss, and the Love That Remains - How to Keep the Dead Close
29 Plays3 days ago
What If We’ve Been Grieving All Wrong?
How do we truly honor the people we love after they’re gone?
In this deeply moving episode, Jen sits down with Lauren from La Mort to talk about what most people don’t know about death, grief, and connection. From the lost art of caring for our loved ones' bodies to the power of pen pals and handwritten letters, this conversation is full of stories that will make you reflect, feel, and maybe even rethink how we say goodbye.
They open up about the emotional toll of modern funerals, the frustration of navigating corporate death care, and the healing that comes from choice, education, and community. Whether you've lost someone, are supporting someone who has, or simply want to understand grief on a deeper level, this is the conversation you didn’t know you needed.
Key Topics:
-Reclaiming sacred death rituals
-The emotional impact of COVID on connection
-The power of tangible, embodied grief practices
-The importance of informed choice in death care
-Advocating for change and education in the funeral industry
Quotes from the episode:
"Taking care of our loved ones is not an easy task — death is a tangible thing."
-Lauren Carroll
“It’s the bad eggs that don’t want to innovate who give the whole industry a bad reputation.”
-Jennifer Muldowney
Timestamp:
[00:00] Podcast Intro
[01:02] Lauren shares how she moved from co-founding Deathwives to creating La Mort, a heartfelt collective that weaves together grief, art, and joy.
[08:16] Lauren and Jen laugh about their shared clumsiness and reflect on how the pandemic changed human connection. Lauren talks about the importance of simple, tangible rituals like writing letters, being together in person, and caring for a loved one’s body.
[18:38] The conversation turns to the power of giving families real choices around death care. Lauren and Jen explore how informed decisions can bring comfort and clarity in times of loss.
[25:32] Together, they call for more education and open-mindedness in the funeral world. They highlight how listening to families and embracing innovation can transform the way we honor life
and death.
[39:25] Outro
Connect with Lauren Carroll:
LinkedIn- linkedin.com/in/lauren-carroll-deathwives
Website - https://www.lamort.org/
Connect with Jennifer/The Glam Reaper on socials at:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jennifermuldowney/
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@therealglamreaper
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheGlamReaperMuldowney
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifermuldowney/
Facebook Page - https://www.facebook.com/MuldowneyMemorials/
Email us - glamreaperpodcast@gmail.com
Shop Merch - https://the-glam-reaper.printify.me/products
Listen to The Glam Reaper Podcast on Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-glam-reaper-podcast/id1572382989?i=1000525524145
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Transcript
Introduction to Art and Grief
00:00:00
Speaker
you'll see we do at L'Amour is we bring art into this because one of my favorite quotes is some people never learn about art and poetry until they learn about grief and loss.
00:00:10
Speaker
So
00:00:21
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Muldowney, aka the Glam Reaper herself.
Lauren's Transition: Deathwise to La Mort
00:00:29
Speaker
And on today's episode, I have a recurring guest. Well, recurring, repeating. She's back again.
00:00:34
Speaker
um Originally, she was part of a duo and a lot of you would know the duo for sure. and But today she is here on her own. And so I would like to welcome Lauren, formerly of Deathwise, but now of La Morte.
00:00:48
Speaker
I love the way I have to say that. It has to be very French. I don't know why. it's a french word it literally just means death it's also the name of my first cat that i got after i moved out of my house oh no so ah it's a little honor to mort oh you look that name it's very cute It is. I guess I had a great, great uncle named Mort too. So we'll just say it encompasses so much, but for me, it's death in a pretty way.
00:01:18
Speaker
Yeah. ah Which is, you know, kind of what I've always done. Very lovely, Ron. Yeah. um So like you mentioned, i had co-founded Death Wives about six years ago now.
00:01:32
Speaker
And last October, um erin and I started new businesses outside of Death Wives. So Death Wives still exists, still offers the same education that we had before.
00:01:44
Speaker
It's now just in an evergreen format. So you can go on, buy the classes and take them whenever you want.
Grief Cabaret: Joy in Grieving
00:01:50
Speaker
Nice. Over at La Mort, I truly have a collective now of different people who are educating and offering all kinds of services.
00:02:02
Speaker
It's not just death doula, end of life focus necessarily. it does focus on death and it focuses on grief, but then it focuses on like the life aspects of those too.
00:02:14
Speaker
Like we started a membership called grief cabaret because we wanted to show that you could have fun and joy in your grief too. You could do art projects. You could go dance outside and collect leaves and make art projects.
00:02:29
Speaker
And so it's really just a newer, funner way ah doing what I've always done. Educating. Yeah. But it's different, you know. Yeah, it's definitely, um you guys should check out the website. I love the, like, Lamar.
00:02:46
Speaker
I wish I had a French accent. Like, sexy. I always used to say growing up, but I did French in school and i used to love the way the French would say, Jennifer. Yeah. I just love it oh it's just that that their accent is is second to none but anyway we digress or I digress but your website is really cool and it's definitely I feel like it's a lot of people will find their home there like as you said the collective like there's definitely there's a kind of ah a chic gothiness about it oh look at the cat hello and and and there you have a black cat I mean it's epic
00:03:25
Speaker
I know. Perfect. and I brought the bangs. I got the black cat. It's just, I checked all the boxes. You've got the dudes in the coffin behind you. good. Yeah.
00:03:37
Speaker
i ah I really want to have to start filling my walls with a little something.
Death Pals: Global Connections
00:03:41
Speaker
um But yeah, I find, and I found the website. So I joined, and there's a pen pal thing. So you and I talked about, I love a handwritten letter, handwritten card, handwritten note, a package. I just think, I don't know, maybe it's because I live by myself and just, you know, and live abroad for my family and stuff. I just, oh, the joy when I see like a non-bill come into my level.
00:04:05
Speaker
and So I'm a big fan of writing a Christmas card and stuff. And that's something that you provide. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think there'll be more people who'd be interested. Yeah. So, you know, things aren't that great right now. And social media is kind of a nightmare.
00:04:20
Speaker
But that's been the main source of connection now for people. And we've started this group from all over the world now of people who are interested in death and grief and death doulaship.
Art in Grief Processing
00:04:32
Speaker
And so we created Death Pals. And it's just a free pen pal ah group. And so you sign up and then we email you back with your pen pal and you can start writing letters.
00:04:44
Speaker
As it grows, you might get up to three pen pals. But we really feel like It's a safe space for connection. And one of the things that I found over and over and over again every time I teach was, oh, here's my people.
00:04:58
Speaker
Like, it's not everyday folks that do what we do. but but i mean, I could talk stand on top of a roof and scream like, oh, love death. And people would be like, what is happening?
00:05:11
Speaker
then you find your little group and you're like, oh, we can say all the things we want to say. So that's what this is, too. But bringing back that art, too. A lot of what you'll see we do at L'Amour is we bring art into this because one of my favorite quotes is, some people never learn about art and poetry until they learn about grief and loss.
00:05:34
Speaker
And so it's kind of like these two things we have there. It's like that grief and joy, one in the hand, one in the other. But with art and with music and with words, we can move grief in such a powerful way.
00:05:49
Speaker
So why not create this space where we can use our hands, pen and paper, send stickers, make each other happy, share our grief with somebody who can understand it and hold that grief for you.
Tech Challenges for Small Businesses
00:06:01
Speaker
Share the weird, you know, wacky story of, oh, when this person was dying, this happened and this made me feel this way. You know, there's just not a space to do that. And I don't like you, Mark Zuckerberg. Sorry.
00:06:14
Speaker
We're not going to use your space to have those conversations. So yeah come join us, death pals. Well, i i'm I'm currently in a fight with both Google and Meta at the moment.
00:06:28
Speaker
Meta because i they deleted one of my pages, my business page, or like removed me from it, or I did it. I'm not even sure how it happened, but basically I cannot access it anyway.
00:06:39
Speaker
I can't that my main beef with them is I can't contact somebody in meta to talk to I cannot contact a human being to say how do I resolve this I may have done it you may have done it I don't know what happened but it's now not in my repertoire anymore it's my bloody business so like give me access to my page um otherwise it's just going to sit there and die and so like how can I not in this day and age connect to a human being like that's crazy And then Google decided to, we're just having a beef over Google ads and stuff like that. And they just don't care. And I really, it was this last like two weeks where I realized, wow, like these people just do not care.
00:07:21
Speaker
Like a small business, you could turn around and say like, I don't know, like this coffee cup, right? It is a small business. It's growing. It's actually amazing. It's not actually coffee. It's that mushroom stuff. ah home But I know if I turn to them and said, right, well, I'm going to take my business to Rise or to somewhere
From Digital to Tactile: COVID's Impact
00:07:35
Speaker
else, they probably would care because they're growing business.
00:07:38
Speaker
Whereas Google, you know, if you turn around and say, well, I'm going to to use my advertising budget on Meta, they don't care about Jennifer Muldini's advertising budget. They're like, oh, yours, back off. We don't care. It's so sad and it's just so I love this like different outlet. Now I am only I am full transparency. I only just signed up.
00:07:57
Speaker
So I haven't had the full on experience yet. and And I'm just laughing because as you're talking, I'm like, I think I'm going to be the weird pen pal, though, who probably doesn't even talk about it.
00:08:07
Speaker
but debt I'll be like ah that's so today I did this today I did that I'll be just away with the fairies like telling them about my day and you know how I nearly set the house on fire and how I walked into I don't know because I feel like just the random shit happens to me but um anyway so we'll see how it goes it'll be very interesting And that's perfect. I mean, that's also what we need is to be like, oh, there's other human beings out there who are also accidentally setting their kitchen on fire and not alone.
00:08:36
Speaker
i Like I love when I find somebody who is as accident prone as I am because I'm a disaster. I feel like my Instagram account, talking about Meta, I feel like my Instagram account has just become a fucking ode to what has Jen spilled today? How has she sliced her finger off? Or like, you know.
00:08:55
Speaker
I was going to talking to a friend of mine on the phone the other day and he was like, what do you do? And I was like, oh, I'm just making dinner. And then halfway through the conversation, all the years, fuck. He was like, what did you do? i said, oh, just poured a whole tin of tomatoes on my white shirt.
00:09:09
Speaker
He was like, Oh, Jen. I spilled my coffee on myself right at the very beginning of this conversation. So, you know. There you go. Well, we have a plumbering.
00:09:20
Speaker
So we're just seeing you back up for a reason. but life listen no The connection part, I mean, especially in this work.
00:09:32
Speaker
So Death Wives, I feel like got a lot of success during
Physical Interaction in Grieving
00:09:35
Speaker
COVID. We were not an online platform at all. We were teaching classes in person in Denver. yeah And then this happened.
00:09:43
Speaker
It opened up a whole new world because we were able to connect to people in a totally different way. But then I feel like that like reconnection of like, oh, we get to be humans with each other again still hasn't completely like gone back.
00:09:57
Speaker
Like I feel like a lot of people are stuck in this digital and only online. And so that's another thing that we're really trying to do is even if it's, you know, letter, it's real.
00:10:09
Speaker
It's tangible. It's a yeah place for us to connect. And like, That's what we're trying to do, too. We're going to have more in-person retreats and workshops and as many live Zoom group meetups as we can possibly have.
00:10:23
Speaker
Because it's that connection and community aspect that is what people are hungry for. And when you don't have that going through the dying process, going through grief, going through loss, it's almost impossible.
00:10:37
Speaker
And a lot of people... that's That's what they think is the norm now for that. Yeah, exactly. It's an isolated area. It is. It's so true. Like COVID did so much good and so much bad for the world. Like everything, honestly. Like the internet brings in the good, the bad, you know.
00:10:55
Speaker
ah Like anything bad, I feel like there's always a positive side, whether it's how it gathered people together where or how you got stronger or how your friendships changed. Like there's always ah a sort of a butterfly effect in terms of you coming out of a chrysalis or whatever. There's always...
00:11:12
Speaker
I feel some positive that can be put to even the most negative thing. um And I do think, yeah, it's fascinating. And it's it's so interesting to have lived through it. And I was only just saying this to somebody the other day that like, I do think on my deathbed, I'll be like, wow, I lived through COVID in New York City. I mean, because it was just wild in New York specifically, and I felt.
00:11:34
Speaker
and And it was, but it was so wonderful to be, have the ability to be connected to you guys to my family back home to people just all across America and and Europe and to still have that like we're doing this all online right now but even when it comes to like me sitting down with a family to design a memorial from an event planner's point of view I'm always talking about let's go back to the five senses yes we can live stream it and that's become hugely popular But even for those people who were live streaming it to, like, how can we send, not sensually, but like sense, use our sensors to bring them in to the memorial.
00:12:12
Speaker
And like going back to our five senses, like a lot of people discount smell as being a massive, like, what was their scent? Like, can we use dad's perfume or maybe a candle that might remind you of dad or just so You know, maybe a cookies or it was, you know, grandma's cookies or, you know, it's not always easy, but it's like bringing back that tactile, that sort of in-person, that touch.
00:12:37
Speaker
Because at the end of the day, like at its core, as you said, like death care really is tactile like it's it's touch it's the body has to be taken care of the body just doesn't go boop and it's gone into outer space and it's disappeared you know um it's still whether it's you know i mean elon musk will probably try and have that happen that it's just like we just disappear like sabrina the teenage witch um we i'm really going from like one to another there i just realized elon musk sabrina the teenage witch welcome to jen's brain anyway ah him
00:13:13
Speaker
But I just, you know, washing and caring for the body. Like I've talked to um my friends about like what will happen when my parents pass and back home in Ireland. And because obviously I'm over here, but obviously doing what I do, I'm probably going to be, Jen, you're in charge, make everything happen.
00:13:31
Speaker
Now I have their funeral plans as to what they want to happen. But like for me, I'll definitely want to take care of my mom's body for sure. My dad's probably not. I just feel like that's a bit weird for me.
00:13:43
Speaker
um i wouldn't be comfortable, but I would want somebody i know and trust to take care of, of taking care of him. um But for my mom, I feel like, oh, nearly getting emotional thinking about it. But um yeah. Oh, God.
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah. but and But it's such an important thing. Taking care of our our loved ones is not an easy task. Yeah, death is a tangible thing. And I think the processing of it, I can't imagine not seeing my person after they die.
00:14:16
Speaker
I just cannot imagine. And it's become the norm here in America. Direct freemation has just become the standard practice, unfortunately, for a lot of people.
00:14:27
Speaker
I think probably because of affordability. But we now have this huge gap in how we grieve. And when we have a huge gap in how we grieve, we have a huge gap in how we show up in the world, how we treat other people, how we treat ourselves.
00:14:43
Speaker
So whenever i talk about this work, I always say, if you can do anything, view their body. Touch them. Spend time with them because for two reasons. Our heart and i our mind need to catch up with each other.
00:14:58
Speaker
It's one thing for someone to tell me my mom died. It's another thing for me to sit in a room with my mom's body and care for her. and know, yes, my mom has died, and I am here with her, and things feel different.
00:15:14
Speaker
I feel that my mom's spirit isn't here the same way that it was before. And so when we can have that kind of conversation with our own physical body while caring for our loved one's own physical body, it just opens up a space that all of our ancestors knew and understood.
00:15:33
Speaker
They always knew that that was such an important part of death and to honor death. I mean, you can go back to earliest, earliest man. I mean, they keep going further and further back 30,000 years, 50,000 years, and they find these graves and they have these special areas and they find beautiful stones and herbs.
00:15:54
Speaker
And so if you think like the human experience has always been preparing and tending to our dead. And then in modern times, that part of the experience has been taken away. And that sounds kind of extreme, like it's taken away.
00:16:10
Speaker
But most families don't understand that that's still their right. And so I feel like it is taken away because they're not educated and they don't understand And when it's become a normal practice by authorities in the funeral realm of, yes, direct cremation. Oh, if you want to do a viewing, it's $450. If you want to do a longer viewing, it's $2,000.
00:16:31
Speaker
When people don't have the money to be able to view their person, that's literally putting a wall between them and their grief with capitalism.
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah. And it's unfortunate, but that's that's really where we're at. And so kind of explaining that you can to have a hybrid. You can still spend time with your person in your home or, you know, in a facility, but that that time you'll never be able to get back.
00:17:01
Speaker
And that it's just crucial that you know that you can have it. 24 hours. You have 24 hours no matter what before our body has to be embalmed, refrigerated, or put in a dry ice or whatever. ah Yeah.
00:17:15
Speaker
And those 24 hours is really a period where people can start doing that processing. The heart and the brain catching up with each other. And also just experiencing like a different kind of love. When somebody dies, we always say, you know, you don't just stop loving them.
00:17:30
Speaker
But your relationship with them changes because their physical body isn't here anymore. And I think that when you get the opportunity to care for their physical body after death, that's like step one.
00:17:42
Speaker
Our relationship has changed now. And I'm blessing this body that loved me, that hugged me, that kissed me when I got sick, and sending you off. And now I get to love you in a new way.
00:17:53
Speaker
Whew!
Financial Implications of Death Care
00:17:54
Speaker
I'm getting all the feels today. i am It's so interesting because feel like we talk about similar topics on each episode, but sometimes some days it just evokes things. and Yeah, it's those because I do. i do 24 hours, as you said, is so important. And I think it's so important for people to bconnect be told the right information, right? That you have this 24 hours and you can never get this 24 hours back, this specific 24 hours.
00:18:25
Speaker
Now, I also know and defend as such, if somebody chooses not to see their their deceased person, and I'm like, that's okay too. Because I do think that sometimes, ah coming from Ireland, I think maybe more so,
00:18:40
Speaker
there was a pressure to sort of be around the dead body and see the dead body. And i know for me, in my experience, and there's been at least two times where I wish I hadn't. And yeah, because i all I can see now is the person past as there and they just did not look like themselves.
00:19:01
Speaker
They were bloat. It was just it was just awful. And I just it's now that sort of fits in a memory where I would much rather remember them laughing. And as I knew them. Right. So it's it is. But it's so important for me to to get that choice, to have that right.
00:19:17
Speaker
as to whether, you know, and actually i talked about it in a different podcast where my mom, throwing her under the bus again, God love her, she made that decision for me, for for one of my relatives um and I wish she hadn't and I, you know, I knew it was coming from a good place, she wanted me to do certain, you know, in in academia she wanted me to do while I was in the middle of exams and, but she took the choice away from me to make the decisions as to as to what to do and And, you know, it's very difficult to be a parent. I can't even imagine and make those choices and have to make those decisions for your children and hope that you're making the right ones.
00:19:54
Speaker
um But so I do, I think it's so important is to give people that opportunity. And it is, it's sad that it does come down to sometimes a question of money. and it so It is sad.
00:20:05
Speaker
But then on the other side, ah funeral home, and I so i defend this too, a funeral home and anybody in the funeral death care space It is a business.
00:20:16
Speaker
the You know, it's not like ah yeah it's not like unless it's a charity and there's it's and that's what you're choosing to to be. Lights still have to go on. Bills still have to get paid. You know, you still have to hire staff to to welcome the family.
00:20:31
Speaker
It's a very tricky coming from the wedding space 16 years ago. I found that such a difficult situation. I was like, wow, I'm doing similar thing for weddings and people are like so happy to pay me.
00:20:43
Speaker
And then when it comes to doing the exact same work for a funeral, they're like, what do you mean I have to pay you? I've already lost everything. It's such an interesting and I feel like there's a lot of people in the death care space who don't get paid enough or don't get paid at all for their work and they're angels. And I hope there's reward for them somewhere.
00:21:06
Speaker
I've always been trying to figure out that disconnect. Like when I was working as a funeral director, and would be like, okay, I know we're bringing in this much money a month. How come I'm getting paid peanuts?
00:21:18
Speaker
Guess what? Funeral directors are not rich people. Like i I just want that to be a known fact. This does not be the industry to join when you're wealthy, but then that's where I go.
00:21:30
Speaker
Well, where's some of that money going to? And I do think America is a very corporate capitalist society. And so there are going to be spaces where you can charge more and then other places are going to have to charge more to keep up with you. And so I think that we've seen that happen here in the States, too.
00:21:50
Speaker
I'm not throwing SCI under the bus, but I am. Because when they came into this picture, I mean, i there's a statistic that they raised the prices in 1994 to now by almost 50%.
00:22:03
Speaker
Because the mom and pops had to keep up with them. And so... When we look at like inflation and our incomes, yeah we can't afford the same funerals that our grandparents could afford.
Education in the Funeral Industry
00:22:16
Speaker
And it's the same thing. Like I can't afford a house that my parents could have bought easily. And so we're having this like... break I don't call it a breaking point, but a point of like, how do we make this work for where we're at in society for how we can serve?
00:22:33
Speaker
i I don't like I'm not going to be embalmed, but I want people to choose embalming if that means they can view their person. say And i yeah you need to use a funeral home.
00:22:44
Speaker
u I've done home funerals for people who have been in car accidents, and so I've hired a funeral director to do restorative care without embalming and then still bring them home.
00:22:56
Speaker
And that's an option. And so people, it's like there's all these little avenues where funeral homes could still make money, but also support families so that they're not spending $10,000 and they're having a more intimate space for You can rent a casket at most funeral homes.
00:23:14
Speaker
You have them bring it to your house and have your loved one in there. i mean, I'm from Southern California and we used to do a lot of Catholic Mexican funerals in California. And they would just say, bring mom over, pick her up in a few days. We're having a party.
00:23:30
Speaker
And I loved that. I loved that they knew that they could do that and that they did. And that our job was to bring mom over in this casket, have this party, and then they would do the burial. And yes, they're healing comparatively.
00:23:48
Speaker
When people had that time and the space to do the viewings, to do the celebrations their way, versus the direct cremation, come pick up the ashes, or we ship them out, you can't even compare the two. And the thing is, all of us are going to go through this experience. All of us are going to have friends, family, lovers die.
00:24:09
Speaker
And so just to know that it doesn't have to be just, I can only afford a direct cremation. i can have this, this, and this is what I think will change. I'm not trying to, I used to say, I want to change death care.
00:24:23
Speaker
I want to change how we grieve and how to change how we grieve. We have to change how we're doing death. you know how we're dying I actually think you hit the nail on the head with what you you sort of said there it was kind of in the middle um where it's actually just really and you and I've talked about this and agreed on this is education it's actually like instead of making decisions for people which I have found to be a lot of funeral directors even the good ones the good ones and the bad ones they assume somebody wants this
00:24:56
Speaker
They assume because you've walked into this bougie ass funeral home that you want X, Y and z They assume that because you've walked into ah predominantly Catholic funeral home that you want a Catholic, and you know, you want everything tick,
Innovation and Legal Challenges
00:25:09
Speaker
tick, tick.
00:25:09
Speaker
They assume because you've walked into a contemporary funeral home that you want it to be a certain way. And actually, and it's one of the things I'm actually kind of trying to drill in um on my celebrant course is really it's the act of listening.
00:25:23
Speaker
You've got two ears, one mouth, you know, that famous old saying it's about really and truly listening to what the people value. And educating yourself. And there's so many free resources out there.
00:25:35
Speaker
And this podcast should be absolutely one of them. If I do say so myself. It's just yeah it's having conversations with people. It's about educating yourself. I couldn't believe how many funeral homes that I went into. That A didn't know what a celebrant was.
00:25:48
Speaker
um Or B didn't know what aquamation and alkaline hydrolysis was. Or composting. The celebrant thing is around for decades. Decades.
00:25:59
Speaker
Like how do you not know what that is right now? um I can kind of understand not knowing about the composting. Kind of. But just what?
00:26:10
Speaker
So the fact that you are... and And so this is where I think it sort of really comes down to is like the funeral directors, whether it's a local mom and pop funeral home that's owned by the the people who work in it or it's an SCI or it's a, you know, any of these other bigger funeral homes, more corporate funeral homes or even back in Ireland. I mean, I write for a funeral magazine back in Ireland talking about the innovation here.
00:26:34
Speaker
And I'm just like, it doesn't matter where you are in the world. You should still stay up to speed as to what is happening in the death care space. This is your industry. So it's like educating people that you can sit in front of somebody. And I know, which is one of my...
00:26:50
Speaker
My bones with this country is that each state is so different. I don't understand why it's called the United States. Don't understand. But what I can see in Florida, sitting in front of it, if I'm a funeral director, sitting in front of somebody, know my state laws, right? So know what I can and can't do, because that's obviously important.
00:27:07
Speaker
But also know that I can offer somebody aquamation. I just might have to go to another stage. Or I can offer somebody composting. I just might have to go to another stage. Or I can offer, as you said, home burial if they feel like they can't afford to pay for my staff to for a visitation to happen in the funeral home or whatever it might be.
00:27:24
Speaker
That just that you know what the options are and you're giving people what they want. And if you just want direct cremation, then that's fine too. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And even with direct cremation, you have the 24-hour window.
00:27:38
Speaker
you So you can still, during COVID, that was one thing I told every family that called me. Keep them as at home. You don't have to send them here. Once we have them, you're not going to see them again.
00:27:49
Speaker
like yeah And i was that was the honest truth back then. Yeah.
Evolving Death Care Practices
00:27:52
Speaker
Oof. And so we did. We facilitated home funerals. We brought dry ice and kind of a sheet of like, this is what you need to do. Call us if you need anything. Yeah.
00:28:01
Speaker
And all we got was gratitude. Not a single person was like, that was gross. That was creepy. They got to spend time with their person. They got to wait for their brother to fly in so he could see dad or time.
00:28:14
Speaker
Yeah. An opportunity that would not be allowed. If not, you know, so even with direct cremation families, they still have that opportunity to be able to spend the time with their person Do some prayers, do some party, whatever, and then do the direct cremation. So you're not missing out. You're not losing on that.
00:28:37
Speaker
But I want to go back to funeral directors. um alone I love Nate. So actually yesterday i was teaching a class called the School of Sacred Death.
00:28:48
Speaker
And it's a 12-week program. So it's very intensive. And we go over everything. I show videos of fire cremation and embalming and really like this is what it is. And it opens people's eyes of like, oh, like I didn't know.
00:29:04
Speaker
i had a student who's taking this. She had never heard of aquamation or water cremation. And I'm like, you're signing up for this death class. And that she didn't know. And so the class yesterday was like the revolution of the death doulas.
00:29:18
Speaker
And one of the biggest parts is the education piece. And one of the biggest pushbacks is these conventional funeral directors saying, And it's because they are the professionals and these people now know more than them.
00:29:32
Speaker
That sucks. I mean, even with nurses, with doctors, having talking about palliative care options instead of going on to hospice, and then they think, Doctors will even go, well, palliative care is hospice.
00:29:45
Speaker
No, not in the States. It's not. It's something to help take care of you so you don't feel bad and, you know, mind, body, spirit kind of stuff. When you tell a funeral director, i want, you know, to be cream, I don't want to be embalmed. I want to be wrapped in a shroud.
00:30:03
Speaker
It would be easy for a funeral director to say, you can't do that just because they've never done it and they don't know because the practices are very, they haven't changed much, honestly, since the 60s of, okay, here's your contract. Here's your packages. Here's the casket choices.
00:30:21
Speaker
Here's the embalming. We'll do the rosary and then tomorrow we'll have the mass. You know, it's a very difficult. much It hasn't changed. And so when i was a young the funeral director, I think I was 23, working at scii kind of sad because I was like, thought I was going to help these people in grief. And now I feel like a salesperson. And my boss just yelled at me because I didn't get enough commission this month and that shouldn't I be working harder to make commission?
00:30:51
Speaker
No, i want to help people. i want to create these beautiful funerals. And so I saw the documentary, A Family Undertaking. When I saw that, I saw the most, you know, I saw these families coming together, building dad's casket, laying him out, having these beautiful services, completely fine with a unembalmed dead body in their house.
00:31:16
Speaker
And I'm watching this going, that's against the law. That can't be legal. and um That's my profession. Education for people in the death zone, too, because they this was not part of the normal education that we're taught.
00:31:31
Speaker
we It's
Resistance to New Practices
00:31:32
Speaker
changing. It's changing quickly. And people are excited about that change. So they're learning about it, studying it and then they go to the professionals. And if the professionals don't know, they're going to say, absolutely not.
00:31:45
Speaker
One of the things that I'm seeing more and more is, you know, we're trying to pass more laws to have water cremation available, to have natural organic reduction available. And it's the funeral directors that are saying, no, we don't want this.
00:32:00
Speaker
And I don't I don't understand why. Because with water cremation, you're still getting the ashes back. You're still making money. With natural organic reduction, that's probably one of the more expensive options right now.
00:32:14
Speaker
You can, as a funeral home, offer all things. So still serve your community in different ways. Still make an income off of that.
00:32:25
Speaker
But for some reason, there's just this pushback of like, that's changed. That's different. People won't want it. I don't understand it. It's weird. ah i shared videos in Utah two weeks ago now.
00:32:39
Speaker
ah They were trying to pass the bill for natural organic reduction. It did not pass. But I shared the three videos of the three funeral directors and what they said. And my class was just like, what? They sound like they don't understand death care.
00:32:55
Speaker
They were talking about how, well, if people don't want cemeteries in their backyard, who's going to want soil? I'm just like, people, gardens, forests, you know, we really do need soil in our yeah country.
00:33:10
Speaker
It's one of the best things we can do for our environment. Planting trees, lots of soil, like we need this. And they were just like, no, absolutely not.
00:33:21
Speaker
And i i just can't understand why they aren't embracing it because people are asking for it. And for some reason, they're like not in our lane. And I'm like, this is only in your lane. Like you have to get the same permits for natural organic reduction and water cremation that you would for burial or fire cremation.
00:33:44
Speaker
So where is this that it's not yours and that we have to not accept this or ban it? Yeah, it's different. That's all that it is. It's like the current climate we have now. It's like anything that's different.
00:33:57
Speaker
No, we don't like, you know, I mean, one of the heckles I was saying about in one of the classes I got trying to talk to people about celebrant work. And one gentleman um sort of said, no, no, there's nothing wrong with priests.
00:34:14
Speaker
Oh, I didn't say that. Like oh five percent of people. Well, I was like, part of me was like, well, that's not actually factual, first of all. But if you want to get into that conversation, that's a whole other conversation.
00:34:27
Speaker
But I was like, I never said there was anything wrong priests. we are We are just different. We're in addition. there's oh We're not trying to like get rid of them. We're not atheists. We're just celebrants. We can bring in we can have a priest. We can have a rabbi. We can have everybody.
00:34:43
Speaker
It's just if it's something different. It's that's and it's not everybody. And that's the thing like you're a funeral director. I mean, that's, you know, it's it's the bad eggs out there that don't want to move, that are archaic, that aren't into innovation. And they give the whole industry, the whole profession a bad rep. And it's just it's tragic to watch.
00:35:02
Speaker
and And it's just so fascinating as well, though, like as you said, to like hear people's reasoning behind why they're saying no. It's like anyway, I mean, I feel like we could I feel like we could go so much further into that conversation. But let's let's say it. I'll line under it there
Episode Conclusion and Upcoming Courses
00:35:18
Speaker
for a moment.
00:35:18
Speaker
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the show. I'm going to, I know you and I could talk for hours and hours as we've written. and and Yes. So maybe we'll get you on again and when I've tried this pen pal thing a little bit more because I'm very excited.
00:35:34
Speaker
and But everyone should check out your website. Check out the courses, Death Wives courses for sure. But also um your website. It's just beautiful i am at the moment. I just think it's just that real, oh, dark Gothic. I love it.
00:35:46
Speaker
I'm quite jealous, to be honest. And yeah, check it out and become a pen pal. Maybe you'll even get me as your pen pal. I'm sorry if you do. ah Yeah. And you're doing a course. um At least I know it's coming. I'm not sure, you know, depending on when this goes live, but you're doing a course on intuitive grief um and a death care and stuff. So with another po season five podcaster.
00:36:11
Speaker
and actually one thing I've noticed that sort of seems to be a theme on this season is is the things we actually started as our conversation about which is like the five senses because we've had whole podcasts on sound and using music and that we're talking about like touch very much in this one we're talking about intuitiveness so yeah it's kind of interesting how season five is working out it's It's that embodiment and we need it. I think too with the current climate and we're all like, whoo, like shaky. It's what brings us back.
00:36:43
Speaker
Those five senses, the smell, the touch, the breathing exercises. yeah So that actually is a class that I'll have March 21st is called the Embodied Death Doula because you cannot do this work and continue to do this work in this chaotic environment, when you step into families that are toxic and don't feel well, yeah that you are taken care of, that you are a full vessel to be able to continue to serve. So we teach about active listening, which is, I always say when I do this, i was like, as a funeral director, i wish this would have been one of the courses that they taught us.
00:37:21
Speaker
Yes. a director, i mean, literally, that's what we're told. That's, we are telling you what to do. That's what directors do. Instead of shutting up and listening.
00:37:33
Speaker
Yeah. And saying, yeah it sounds like your mom really loved the color purple. What if we build upon that versus, okay, well, we could put purple flowers on top of this prayer card that we'll hand out, you know, that kind of thing.
00:37:47
Speaker
And ah yeah, so... embodiment I think is what we're all trying to do right now in this ah wild crazy world absolutely I love that what a great positive end to the episode thank you so much Lauren from L'Amour joining us and we hope to hear and talk to you soon