Transcript
Speaker: It's called Evening Song, and it's the it's from his opera, Satyagraha, which is about Mahatma Gandhi. And it's this beautiful melody that's just ascending, like...
Speaker: e And it just keeps repeating and ascending. I was, like, losing my mind. was like,
Speaker: losing mind.
Speaker: Hello everybody and welcome to the Glam Reaper podcast. I'm your host Jennifer Muldani aka the Glam Reaper and on today's episode I have the beautiful Conchetta all the way live from New York.
Speaker: Conchetta welcome. Hi thanks for having me. ah Thanks for having me here. You're so, so, so very welcome. So tell us, well, other than it being bitterly cold in New York at the moment, which I have to say, I'm in sunny Florida at the moment because very excitingly, Muldownie Memorials is expanding into Florida. So if you know anybody, please let us know.
Speaker: um so yeah, we we've been, um our social media feed has been sort of throwing information Throwing people off, I think, it with images of snow one minute and sort of images of sunshine the next.
Speaker: So we're a bit all over the place. It is kind of wild to me that in the one country on the same side, the the weather can be so vastly different. But welcome to America, especially at the moment.
Speaker: Anyway, Conchetta, you and I, our paths crossed in ah in an interesting way. and Tell us exactly what it is that you do. So I am a violinist. I've played violin since I was four years old. I'm also a singer and a music composer. And I've had a long career as a performer for private events, weddings, you know, various events throughout New York City and the metropolitan area.
Speaker: And as time went on, um i became more and more specialized in doing music specifically for funerals, memorial services and celebrations of life.
Speaker: um And so our paths crossed Jennifer through a mutual friend who is a funeral director on Staten Island, Jeff Holcomb. And ah he and I got in touch about writing a curriculum that,
Speaker: to educate funeral directors on how to best utilize music as part of ceremony. um And this topic is growing and changing as we live in a culture and a society that isn't necessarily religious or traditional.
Speaker: And we need to look at how artistic practices such as music reflect the evolving and changing culture. So anyway, Jeff Holcomb said, you have to meet Jennifer Muldowney.
Speaker: um You two will have so much in common. And yeah, we just we just hit it off. Yeah. And he's an absolute dote. We had him on, think it was the last season of and the podcast.
Speaker: So he's such a great guy. And um so, you know, his company, Continuing Vision, you know, in honor of son and everything, it's just such a beautiful story. So if you haven't already listened to that episode or seen that episode, please check it out. and Continuing Vision is his company and there is more, much more we'll be doing with him in the future.
Speaker: um But it's so, yeah, like to me, when we met and we started talking, everything, everything that I do. So whether it's the celebrant work or the memorial planning work typically involves some element of music.
Speaker: And to me, i often when I'm talking with families, you know, they'll ask, well, you know, maybe if they don't have a huge budget or whatever, like where can we spend our budget? Like where is it the most worthwhile? And I often I mean, food and drink is obviously great and it's it's something I have high value in.
Speaker: i am But I think lighting and music are two things that massively impact any event itself. Any event like they can change a wedding from being, you know, a happy event to a somber event to like a wild, raucous event.
Speaker: And so I feel like with a funeral as well, ah and especially when people hire a quote unquote event planner for their funeral, they sort of the amount of times has been said to me, I don't want it to look like a wedding, Jen. I don't want it to be like a wedding.
Speaker: And I always say there's a really fine line between and celebrating a life and having a party and mourning a loss. And it's so important to to get both right.
Speaker: And I feel like a wedding planner can absolutely organize a funeral. um Absolutely, logistically very similar. However, there are nuances that have to be taken into account. And I think mourning a loss is one of the biggest ones.
Speaker: And for me, I think music has a massive impact on the mood, raising it, lowering it. I mean, oh God, I've been brought to tears by some powerful performances, even... ah I don't have no shyness in saying this. People know I've aired all sorts of things on this podcast. But just recently I was at Disney, a huge Disney fan, huge.
Speaker: And we went to the fireworks in the evening and it was just fireworks and music. I mean, the visual like visually it was stunning, but it was the music and along with the the sort of the sparks of light.
Speaker: I was a mess. I was so emotional. It just brought up so much for me. It's just the power of of sound. I just, it's incredible. So tell us a little bit about.
Speaker: Yeah, it's really interesting that you bring up those comparisons between wedding celebrations versus funerals and memorial services, because As a violinist, I get asked to play so many weddings. I play the ceremony. I also play the cocktail hour. um And I work for a lot of different contractors and event companies. And what I noticed is that there are hundreds of wedding music companies.
Speaker: And sometimes you'll see something on their website, like in the bottom corner in tiny print, like we also do funerals. And I think to myself, The funeral is such a, not just funeral, but memorial service.
Speaker: It's such a delicate event that requires a totally different approach to have the effect, like you said, of helping, you know, the people in the room, you bond as a community and feel their grief communally.
Speaker: And the musician takes center stage in a way, in the sense that people are really focusing on the music and the music is not simply something in the background to create a vibe.
Speaker: It's really there to process um the feelings and the emotions. And I thought, how come there's nobody really specializing in this? yeah um Other than religion you ah religious institutions, you know you can go to a Catholic church, you can go to a synagogue, they'll they'll have a music director on staff.
Speaker: But if you're somebody who doesn't feel comfortable in a religious space or you have an interfaith family situation, it's nice if you can find a musician who is versed in different spiritual traditions or agnostic ideas about death and grief.
Speaker: And, ah you know, create something that is truly a reflection of your loved one's life. So it's not like a stock cookie cutter, you know, Catholic mass kind of thing. Yeah.
Speaker: you know, one size fits all kind of approach. So that was where I got the idea to start my organization, which is called Sound and Memory. It's the title of my organization, Sound and Memory, actually comes from the name of a traditional Sicilian folk song.
Speaker: And it's, well, it's actually a Sardinian folk song, but it's so yeah It's called Sono e Memoria. And it is ah it it means sound and memory, which is the name of my organization.
Speaker: And it's about music, ah you know, stirring up your feelings and your memories of your lost loved one. Yeah. And so usually I sing the Sono e Memoria song if I'm doing a workshop or a presentation.
Speaker: um to give people an idea of, you know, where I'm philosophically coming from in terms of how I think music can be a tool to facilitate the grief process. um But yeah, I started doing this work by word of mouth. Honestly, I've always been the person in my own family who gets called to do funerals.
Speaker: And I just realized that I was the person who was sort of comfortable doing it. And then the word of mouth got out to a broader network of people And my, the funeral, there are many funerals that stand out in my mind, but one was a funeral that I did for a 30 year old young woman who died of COVID.
Speaker: And um she was a visual artist, like pretty well known. And her funeral was packed. There were hundreds of people who came from the arts and music scene in New York City. And it was at St. Mark's in the Bowery. And it was this absolutely heartbreaking event for the community. And so what I did to prepare for this event was I interviewed various members of this young woman's family, um including her her friends as well.
Speaker: And i put together this quite oddball list of music that really seemingly had nothing to do with each other. So we had, um you know, a Christina Perry song and we had a Philip Glass song. We had Hildegard bumping and it was just a lot of different things. And then I wrote arrangements for five piece chamber ensemble. So we had oh yeah clarinet, flute, piano, violin, and cello.
Speaker: And um I wrote arrangements and then I worked with ah the young woman's mother to pace the music with the readings. um And it was just what I realized, you know,
Speaker: commanding, you know, 300 people who are grieving in a room, we needed to have those breaks of music and the music could flow at any pace or we could decide to repeat or we could decide to cut it short because we were doing it live. It wasn't a recording.
Speaker: So we were able to actually respond in real time to the feelings happening in the room. So, for example, the closing song was the Philip Glass. um It's called Evening Song, and it's the it's from his opera Satyagraha, which is about Mahatma Gandhi.
Speaker: And it's this beautiful melody that's just ascending, like... dey giy
Speaker: eyy And it just keeps repeating and ascending, I was like losing my mind in that room. I was like 300 people and we're all just like ascending with Jenny, you know? And, um, wow. I just got shivers. I love that.
Speaker: I got shivers and you can see there is a video of it on my YouTube channel. It's not the best recording, but it kind of captures like the feeling in the room. And even though none of the musicians in the ensemble knew her, it felt like we were with her.
Speaker: um And I think it's important that people, you know, regardless of your background or religious affiliation or spiritual beliefs, can have this experience of bonding as a community in your grief. And also, like, you know, music is language. it's it's an alternative It's an alternate form of communication. Yeah.
Speaker: when we can't use our words to brass the feelings. Music can be this thing that can carry us to another space, another time, and it can stretch how long time feels or it can make time feel shorter.
Speaker: So that's the power of how music can flow within a ceremony with such a difficult and heavy experience, not just the death of a young person,
Speaker: But everyone in that room, considering their own mortality, this could have happened to me. Yeah. And what are our values? And why are we all being so petty when life can be cut so short? I mean, there is a lot of those kind of speeches happening in that room.
Speaker: And yeah, really, i had done a lot of funerals and I could talk about a million of them. But that was the one where I was like, this is what I want to do. but Yeah. Full time. This is what I want to do. Yeah.
Speaker: hey Yeah, it sounds like you had ah the similar calling or however anointing that I had. am It's just exactly as you said. It's, you know, I'm actually really bad at music myself. I can't hold a note. Like I'm famous for it. I can't hold a note.
Speaker: And like in school, I mean, that we trained, you know, they trained us to do the tin whistle. God, I was terrible. I mean, I It was terrible. I would use my breath to make the...
Speaker: So, but what I find, again, so fascinating and humbling for me is, is you know, I don't... I'm not musical.
Speaker: i don't... Like, everything you you you do and you are, I have i have nothing for, right? so But... there is music in all of us and music transforms my mood and it still is a language I have. It's just my language sounds different to yours and my understanding.
Speaker: Like I've known, I've had really close friends who are so musical and, you know, it's we're we're so opposite. But we still connect at musical festivals and we still like I can still go and enjoy her bands because she enjoys them and that sort of thing. And it's just it's it is it's the ultimate connector. And exactly as you you said so eloquently, it's at a funeral a lot of the time. And I feel like especially in New York nowadays, a lot of time you're going to a funeral and maybe you're going with friends.
Speaker: But you don't know anybody in there. You're going because your friend or somebody you worked with or some sort of a colleague has passed and you're there for that. And what I think is so incredible about celebrant work, honestly, but genuinely, obviously, with what I do in in event planning as well,
Speaker: is that a funeral should make it a community, like bring everybody together. So like when you're standing up on stage behind a podium, whether you're a celebrant or whatever, that the service resonates with everybody in there.
Speaker: And there's that's the reason why I encourage pre-planning, because if I pre-plan my own service, Conchetta can come and see a part of Jen, the Jen she knew in that service, as well as Conjan and Alex and Anna and all these other people who knew Jen. And suddenly you see you feel connected.
Speaker: Whereas if it's just, and it's no no ill wills towards religion and stuff, but if if it's just like what I was used to when growing up with it just just the Catholic, the priest up there and saying the the usual rites, there's nothing in there that's resonating about Jen, quote unquote Jen for me, right? Like that's, it's just, it's regurgitating the same thing.
Speaker: Now it's not to say if Jennifer was somebody who went to mass every day and and all that sort of stuff, then yes, then that's, I see Jen in that. That makes sense to me. But you want to be going to a funeral and it to sort of speak to the person who's passed and connect everybody in that room.
Speaker: And I just think music absolutely does that. I mean, I have had and this is just a little fun part of the job that I do. And I'm sure the similar for you, but there have been songs that have been ruined for me.
Speaker: Because they've been played at funerals. And when I say ruined, i mean, i'm a I'm a bag of tears when they come on. I mean, there's that, um what's his name? Benny Boone? or but like i see I'm terrible. I never even know names of things.
Speaker: But that and incredible song that was out, was it last year or the year before? it was a hit and it was played there at the Grammys, I think it was. He played live. Ball and crying because it had been at a funeral that was just so emotional for me.
Speaker: So it's just music has just got that power to bring us up. As you said, like ascending with her. I mean, I got total chills there, but it just it can bring up and down our mood. And it's just such a beautiful part of a service. and And I will say, and I know obviously you do majority of your stuff live, I'm sure.
Speaker: and But even when it's just an iPad playing a song or something, it can still have an impact. Like one of the things I've I when I'm doing a celebrant and talking over the service with a family as a celebrant.
Speaker: Is I'll often ask them, is there a song you want at the beginning of the service and at the end of the service? And then is there a song in the middle? You know, if you'd like something at some point in the middle. And sometimes yes, sometimes no. Sometimes there's one song and that's just it. they you know So we decide, is it better have it at the beginning, middle or end?
Speaker: But what I notice, and even me as a celebrant, is in that moment, in the middle of the service, right? So I've gotten up, I've maybe done a welcome. I've had couple of people speaking. We've said a prayer.
Speaker: Maybe we've done a poem. And now I will say, and now we're going to have this piece of music that meant so much to Sarah. And I sit down and so we play the music. Now, whether there's vocals in it or not, if there's vocals, even if you've heard that song a hundred million times, every word in that song will resonate with you in a totally different way.
Speaker: And you'll hear so much more meaning from the song. And if there's no vocals in it, the power of just the, it's just, yeah. Yeah, I was thinking too about, um first of all, yeah, I agree. Recorded music can be extremely powerful and useful and is a really accessible way to utilize music as part of a service.
Speaker: um And part of what I do ah with Sound and Memory is I also do playlist making with people. So if somebody wants to work with me um to choose the songs that they want ah for any event or occasion. i i can create a playlist and also help them figure out the pacing of the music.
Speaker: um So it is really good to know, you know, recorded music is accessible. um And also if you're on a budget, you can hire one musician. Just having like a solo violin or a solo cello or solo trumpet can just make a huge difference to have like a Yes.
Speaker: but one thing that came to my mind as you were speaking was about how um memorials and funerals can be i mean just like any big family gathering can be a really contentious space yes so the ble yeah Especially if the person who died was very young, there's a lot of resentment and anger and blame.
Speaker: um There can be. And there also can be um just a lot of disagreements. And I think that but what both you and I do is we try our best. We try you utilize the tools we have to transcend that and to get everyone on the same page.
Speaker: Yeah. Like, this is what we're here for. Because that's i I know that this funeral that I did that I was telling you about. um People were angry at each other.
Speaker: There was a lot of blame. You stressed her out. That's why she got sick. You you did this. You did that. So it was like i kind of gathered that from doing my pre-planning interviews with all the different people involved in her life.
Speaker: um And I thought, okay, like I'm going to be really democratic about this and include everyone's perspective, but through their chosen song, through their music.
Speaker: Yes, love Which not a controversial thing. thing It's something that we can connect over. um So, yeah, I think that that is also like an interesting challenge um that I have faced, you know, doing funerals versus weddings, for example.
Speaker: Yeah, there's hit ter they're both very fascinating spaces to be in in terms of family ah dynamics, shall we say. Definitely very interesting spaces. But I do find there's a finality to funerals and that sort of, I think, panics people. And, you know, exactly as you said, sort of.
Speaker: ne You know, mum's already passed. This is my last chance to sort of do something for her, whatever. There's sort of a and time, you know, continuum that people are kind of up against.
Speaker: and And that's it. Like part of 100 percent, part of our job is mediation, negotiation, sometimes compromise. And um that's actually actually something that I talk about in my Celebrant training course, which is you are not there to put forward your religious views, your political views or to take sides. That is not what yeah that your role is.
Speaker: Your role is to listen. Like I love that famous saying of you two ears and one mouth. You know, that you should listen and use your mouth in in in that order. and Because really a lot of these people that you're dealing with in grief just want to be listened to and just want to feel heard. And there is exactly as you said, there are ways to compromise with people and have everybody feel seen and feel participated in and in the service. And music is is just a beautiful, beautiful
Speaker: Some of the events that I've done have also been living funerals. I would i call them living funerals. they're not ah It's not like people approach me saying, oh, I'm going to do a living funeral. But what I'm really referring to is a celebration of life for someone who is extremely elderly, where everyone in the room has a kind of anticipatory g grief.
Speaker: yeah And I distinctly remember playing violin for a woman, a Jamaican-American immigrant woman who was 100 years old.
Speaker: And they Zoomed, you know, her family from Jamaica. So they had on the video screen the family from Jamaica and then the um family from Brooklyn were in the room.
Speaker: And they had ah representative from ah local city government who gave her an award. Like if you live to a hundred and you're born in New York city, or i don't remember exactly what it is, but she won some kind of like official certificate just for being a hundred, which was really cool. And in Ireland, they actually get a check.
Speaker: Yeah. ah Oh, so they requested the family requested that I play somewhere over the rainbow. And um I kind of did a strolling violin thing and I walked her on the room and I was kind of, you know, playing for the different people and I turn around and she's crying.
Speaker: She's crying because, you know, that was like her childhood favorite song. And so this is ah a celebration of life where the person whose favorite song you're playing isn't deceased yet. They're there and they can experience it with you.
Speaker: um So that's a really powerful experience and a different kind of of grief. Yeah. the Anticipatory grief. Yeah, the living funeral is an interesting um trend recently. ah it's i I think, I don't know that she started it, but I know i she's one of the first people that I ever heard of doing it. and Barbara Corcoran, the shark tank lady, did it for her 70th, I think.
Speaker: and So I think that put it on the map. and Although I've told a few people about it recently, there was a journalist and everything and they'd never heard of of her doing it. And I was like, how? How? It's such a big thing.
Speaker: She came out often, a casket. ah Yeah, my friend's grandmother had, ah she called it an indie festival. I-N-D-Y, I'm not dead yet.
Speaker: Because she said, I want to see everybody. Yeah. Like, basically, let's do my funeral before I go. it was i think it was like, you know, probably five years before she actually passed away.
Speaker: um you know, and I think those big celebrations, um the kind of people who choose to do things like that are just wonderful people.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. They're just embracing life. They're embracing death. They're embracing love. I mean, you and I have talked about this. There's not a huge, huge market for doing celebrations of life. There's not tons of people demanding this kind of work. But the people who do, it's just amazing.
Speaker: It's life changing actually meeting those people who are yeah confronting and facing their there are mortality head on and really living in the moment. um Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker: I mean, we did when I did my 15 year um celebration of being in business, we did a sort of pseudo funeral. Like I basically got to live out my the music I would choose for my funeral. I have my little Winnie the Pooh video like, you know, I gave my own eulogy, but it was all work orientated. Like the speakers weren't necessarily, you know, my speakers.
Speaker: But I do. I think it's a wonderful idea um because is also, I have actually thought about this. and And I thought the the interesting thing about it, though, is unlike a wedding or a typical birthday, if you're actually going to blatantly call it your sort of living funeral.
Speaker: Think about it. If you got an invitation to that and you don't show up, that's... but I just feel like there's way more pressure to show up to that than there are for any other event. Because even when somebody passes, you know, sometimes people just can't show up for whatever reason. And i don't want to say, you know, well, the person's passed, so who cares?
Speaker: But, you know, it's not like they can come back and get angry at you that you didn't even bother coming to my funeral. Although maybe they can, depending on what you believe. my yeah like and But with a living funeral, there can be repercussions, right?
Speaker: Well, these these are events, you know, that are very well attended, but the few that I've done. And um another kind of event that I've done is an in-home hospice convert.
Speaker: So if someone is is unable to leave the house and they're homebound, I wouldn't really call it a celebration of life just because this is a situation where someone is a lot closer to being terminal.
Speaker: i am I've had families hire me to make a concert program and come do a concert in the house because, you know, grandma or grandpa used to love going to the New York Philharmonic or going to the opera and they can't make it out for a concert. They're not going to make it out for another concert.
Speaker: um And so I did a I did an apartment concert with a cellist. So it was violin and cello duo. And we played um we played Elgar. We played Bach.
Speaker: We played it was really a classical program. And It was just a small family affair, you know, the siblings and the parents. And it was and then there was like an intimate dinner. So that was like another kind of event um that I realized that.
Speaker: Music can be these big celebratory things and it can also be these private, you know, shared home concert moments. Yeah. um it's I don't know if it's an event or just it it was it was a different vibe, you know, than do those big public events.
Speaker: um But very also very special and and unique in its own way. Absolutely. Yeah. There's so many, there's so many of my current clients that I can think of that would probably enjoy something like that because it is, that's such a beautiful service because so many people, especially in the New York area are, that would be an ideal bucket list item for them, you know, that maybe they can't make it to Lincoln center or whatever. And they used to go regularly or whatever it might be or to the mass.
Speaker: Um, yeah, You know, it's to just sort of bring it into their living room. Yeah. And it's it's funny because when I started Sound and Memory, I had initially thought of it specifically as music for funerals. But then all these other types of requests started coming up. And I thought, why not?
Speaker: Why do you do that? Like, it's also about grief. It's also about death. um Absolutely. Grief? Yeah, it's not. That's, you know, we were talking about my my TED talk at the before sort of we were recording there. And if there's one thing that what I love about it, not that I thought about it back then, but what I love about it is that And it's sort of the the message is still applicable today. Right. Even though it's what it was nine years now.
Speaker: My God, where is I'm going? But the point is that grief and loss aren't just specific to human life loss. It's not just people can be devastated and grieving over a divorce, over a job loss, over losing a necklace or something like it's it is what what weight we put on the thing we have thing, person, whatever it is that we have lost.
Speaker: And that is so personal and unique to everybody. And so grief is not just about death of of a human being. It can be so many different things. It could be even there's a friend of mine and who, you know, she's been in hospital and I won't go into too many details, but has lost her voice.
Speaker: And so it's like that loss, especially if you were a singer or maybe somebody who was very vocal, that is a massive loss. And so maybe having somebody, the music you used to sing or whatever it might be, having something, there's so many different avenues.
Speaker: It really is. Yeah, it's interesting. i I really believe in creating ritual over those kinds of varied losses. Like you said, not just the loss of a human, but the loss of a a home, a home, yeah maybe somewhere that you lived. Maybe if you were in a big natural disaster and you... yep your childhood home or you lost, like you said, a job, a relationship.
Speaker: i think we can create ceremony um to honor all of those things that pass. um And I was thinking about pet loss or animal loss really um in general.
Speaker: I'm actually doing a workshop up at the Phoenicia Public Library on Saturday about pet loss. um Yeah. And I'm going to be performing a bunch of songs that I wrote in dedication to my dog Mimi, who died in 2016.
Speaker: um And I have also done music for pet funerals. So awesome. Just humans. Yeah. Yeah. And I i did a I did a funeral for Shih Tzu named Colby and Shih Tzu.
Speaker: ah This little Shih Tzu was already readopted when he was elderly. So he lived for eight years with a woman who died in hospice. And then as the second owner adopted him as a senior and he lived another, you know, like eight years. Oh.
Speaker: And this owner was so devastated because she was like, oh, I didn't get to know him since he was a puppy. And I feel like i didn't love him enough. And I was like, are you kidding me?
Speaker: You gave this dog a second life. Yeah. He had a whole second life with you. and um And the song that we chose, you're going to cry. God. The song that we sung at the grave site, because we buried the dog in the yard and it was raining and there was like dew on the grass. And we sang the ah Cat Stevens song, like the first moment.
Speaker: And it was raining. And there's lyrics in that song about the dew drops and the life of the new day and the bird singing. It's all like kind of nature based. And, um, oh, we lost it.
Speaker: yeah I, I can't lose it. Cause I'm performing, you know, I'm singing. I can't.
Speaker: It's. Yeah, I'm sure you can relate to that, too, because you're there to serve the person that you're providing this service for. So you need to keep it together.
Speaker: and when I when I was first starting to do this work, I had an incident actually where I sang an extremely difficult barbara streisand song wow uh for a person who also died quite young and it was tragic and uh i sang it i feel i sang it quite perfectly because my adrenaline was like it was a on a clear day rise and look around you
Speaker: And you'll see who you are. Anyway, it was so hard to sing. I sing the song. Everyone's losing it. I walk quietly out the door and just start bawling.
Speaker: Bawling. Lying outside the door. And someone came outside with their tissues and was like... Are you okay? Do you want me to sit here with you while you get yourself together?
Speaker: That was early, early days of doing this work. You have to, you know, you have to, it's okay. I think it's okay, but it moves. You get yes to it over time.
Speaker: Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I actually get asked that by people coming into the business a lot. And i i would i say two things. I'm like, first of all, when I started doing this business, I actually, i had a cremation jewelry line um and I opened an office. We were doing everything online, but I opened an office. And then all of a sudden people were coming in and just sitting with me and and telling me the stories and and crying and everything. And it used to kill me. Like I would take home all that stuff.
Speaker: grief. And so I eventually kind of closed up shop and kept everything online. Whereas now I'm back to dealing with people one-on-one a lot more.
Speaker: And I don't know whether it's age, whether it's being in it long enough, or i also think that it's i've I've sort of changed it in my brain insofar as now i my heart grows whole, like like bigger, should I say, every service that I do, because I know, and only said this to somebody the other day on the phone, I was like, I know that you have, I would have had to go through this loss without me.
Speaker: regardless so with or without me you're this person has passed away and I know with me i am providing protection and I'm as I always say that I'm the best friend you never wanted to need because you didn't want to lose your person and but I hold your hand and so I flipped the process and I think think probably because we're from in Ireland it's sort of you're not allowed to have what we call notions about yourself so we're not we're not allowed any sort of confidence or think we're any good at anything It's terrible.
Speaker: and But I think that's I think moving to America also flipped it a little bit for me as well. Whereas now I know like, no, i am damn good at what I do. And I know that I'm providing this beautiful service to these people. And so with or without with me is better than without me. And so it's changed in my brain.
Speaker: But I still i still am a mess sometimes after the services. And even like in my celebrant training course, I will, my advice to you is absolutely feel the emotion. It is okay to feel the emotion.
Speaker: Where you need to be professional enough is to hold it together to a certain degree. You typically, you never knew the deceased, typically, right? You never knew the deceased unless you're a friend of the family and they're asking you to sort of do this.
Speaker: And so you can't turn into like an Irish banshee where you're wailing and throwing yourself on the gasket. You can't, you know, so it's OK to be reading a poem, singing a piece of music, reading, introducing somebody or maybe somebody has just spoken and I have to go back up to the podium and it was an emotional speech. It's OK to do it.
Speaker: It's a lot to see somebody else do that, too, by the way. love just a new family member of crying and falling into the casket and don't put it in the ground. And oh god it's a lot to see that. I've seen that a few times. And it's like, ah well, yes, you kind of get used to it over time.
Speaker: i also had started kind of actively seeking around resources about this topic. And I'm. I don't know you've seen, um Barbara Carnes has a training video on her website called Care for the Caregiver.
Speaker: And it's basically a training video for anyone who works in end-of-life care industry, people who are hospice nurses or any kind of ah end-of-life care.
Speaker: But she said that as a hospice nurse, she would get assigned, you know, this many clients in a week. And they would die. And then she would just move on to the next clients. And she said one day she broke down crying on the floor and was like, all of these ghosts are following me.
Speaker: And just... Lost it. And she realized that, first of all, like you said, that person is not your person necessarily. You don't know them. um You don't necessarily know them intimately. Sometimes if you're a deaf doula or a nurse, you may have worked with them before they died. And that can be really, really painful.
Speaker: And so but Barbara encourages you to look at um your own grief and your own losses in your personal life and the ones that are unresolved because every death brings up all the personal things. yeah um So she encourages you to work on that. And also one thing I really like in your own shift.
Speaker: Yeah. And one thing I really like that she said is um allow yourself to memorialize people in your own way. If either by going to their memorial or creating some kind of memorial for yourself, if it's like, you know, having um listening to a song that they that they enjoyed or some something that honors your grief. It's like you just have to, like, acknowledge it and make space for it. There's no way that you can work, work, work, go, go, go when you do this kind of work.
Speaker: Yeah, 100%. And I think each of us um has to find our own way. And I know for me, like i'm a I'm an intuitive person and I believe whatever the things I believe, I never force them on on anybody else. But I know for me, i definitely get signs when I'm working with a family.
Speaker: So like... the wildest things like i a ladybird will show up where I never would see a ladybird for 10 years I'm not even joking you like right now I'd say I've seen maybe two ladybirds in the last 10 years and both of those ladybirds showed up exactly when I was working with oh a young woman who had passed whose thing was ladybirds you guys call them lady bulbs over here I think we call them ladybirds in Ireland yeah and And small things like I was on my way to meet a family, and ah a woman who lost her husband. She was absolutely devastated. It was at the height of COVID.
Speaker: And I was on my way to meet her at the funeral home. And I passed by, as very classic New York, a lamppost, a light posting. and And there was, you know, these, all you know, the way that that they always have and rent here or, you know,
Speaker: all these different signs that people have slapped onto them, like whatever. and And there was, I never look, I never pay any attention to these signs because it's just a light post and I'm just walking past it. This one particular time I was paused at the traffic lights and I happened to look at this light post and on it was the man's name, the deceased's name.
Speaker: And phone numbers to pull because he was looking for an apartment. I was just like, it just small little things. But things things that would never have sort of been in your day regularly. But all of a sudden you're noticing. and Yeah, it's just, there's so many bonkers things. But it is interesting. You did touch on a point that controversially, this might be bit controversial, but I i i ah do believe it.
Speaker: is um the a death doula or a nurse, you know, as you said mentioned, that and you may not know the deceased. And so I personally do think it is better to have somebody officiate, like it's a celebrant or somebody to to keep it together, who is that little bit's deck removed, which is where I go back to a death doula has their lane, and the nurses have their lane, a funeral director has their lane, a celebrant has their lane, has their lane.
Speaker: I just personally think everybody should be an expert at what they do and together work together to make the the service. Now, I know that's not always possible. It's not always feasible.
Speaker: I've had so many families who've wanted a celebrant but maybe can't afford it or for whatever reason. I'm like, there is nothing. Listen, have a family member do it. Absolutely. But having that person who is a little bit one step removed and can sort of a little bit more logically and professionally bring the service together, I do think helps because I can only imagine, and I'm not a death doula, but I can only imagine if I had to sit and hold the hand of a dying person and then have to stand, i I would not be able.
Speaker: Like I would not be able. Yeah. So I have been in that position. putting off you know i i um i am a death doula and i do work with people um before they die choosing and making plans about their memorial specifically about their music and i do sit bedside and i sing at bedside and i provide music at bedside and there was one instance like you said Where the whole thing just kind of happened so quickly that um I ended up being the person who was the death doula sitting bedside.
Speaker: And then four or five days later was also the person doing the music for the funeral. and it was And it was good. Like in the moment, like I was so incredibly focused. I really wanted to honor this person.
Speaker: um i sang Mozart's La Cremosa solo. Girl breath. And
Speaker: I sang that. And I also sang, don't know if you know this singer. um It's a song called runaway by a singer named Aurora. i was running far away. Would I run off the world someday? And I did that and I sang and I played some of my original songs that this really like.
Speaker: So I did the whole, like I did the whole music program with speeches and this was just like, a few days after this person died. Everything just happened so quickly. um So it was all beautiful and good.
Speaker: I cannot tell you how exhausted I was from that. I mean, exhausted. Like you said, doing both sides with the same person before and after death. Sure, I can do it if like it neat if it needs to happen. It is an exceptionally difficult thing. Like I wouldn't recommend doing doing it that way as standard practice. willda And that's exactly it.
Speaker: Like at the end of the day, especially with funerals, they're they're not like weddings where we have tons of time and money to plan. and So you do whatever you can do in the moment. um You do what you can. yeah do true i mean, I see funeral directors that go above and beyond and do guests that are like way outside of their... Absolutely. You do what you can. Not everything is going to be picture perfect. And it's not to say, you know...
Speaker: that anybody that you're celebrating should be clinical and not know anybody and the funeral director the same. It's not to say that at all. It's that just sometimes it can be a cleaner movement. Like, for example, in that situation for you,
Speaker: had there been budget and maybe more time, it might have been nice for you to work with and another musician to do all of the things that that person wanted, you know, so that you're still a part of it.
Speaker: Because even I know from working with family members who are going up to speak, you know, or friends who are going up to speak, and I always give them the option of, listen, write your words down. And if on the day it becomes too much, then let me carry that load for you. Like, let me say the words. You can stand beside me because It's just, it's a lot. I've worked with like Broadway stars who've, whose, whose friend has passed and they've, they've participated in it. And I know they, they flip a switch where it's a professional, just, you know, right. We're going to do this one song, but one song is very, a performance when you know the person is very different to carrying the whole service, whether that's musically or through words as a celebrant, very different.
Speaker: And so well done to you. wow and It's like after it's over, though, you collapse like a pleaded balloon. You're just like, OK, this was a lot. This was, you know, I feel like this brings up a broader topics.
Speaker: ah This brings up a broader topic of. kind of the lack of resources in end-of-life care and end-of-life spaces. And um to some extent, I'm extremely grateful for my Deaf Dua training because it allows me to step up and fill gaps and and know the broader picture and know quite a lot more about what I'm doing working in end of life space.
Speaker: At the same time, when you have such a broad skill set, you do kind of end up being the one who steps up and does this and does that. And like, It doesn't have to be one person. um And I have developed a network of desk doulas that I also work with who do um work with creating advanced directives or having conversations around things.
Speaker: specific end of life plans so that, you know, if I'm working with one client and I'm thinking, okay, this is getting too involved, I'm involved in too many angles of this, I can refer it out.
Speaker: um But that one instance that I described to you was really a learning experience for me. I mean, in some ways it was like proving, okay, I can do this, but also like, should I be, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it's I, I, yeah, I always come back to the analogy of nobody is the Cheesecake Factory except the Cheesecake Factory, as in nobody knows.
Speaker: And even the Cheesecake Factory, I mean, that's the reason why I say that is like their their menu, their book full of different cuisines, you know, and they're pretty good Italian, in even pretty good Irish. I'll give them pretty good Mexican, like they're pretty good at everything.
Speaker: and And I feel like you're better off. Like, I would never dabble with music. I would never dabble with flowers. I would never, you know, bring in the experts that make it good. Like, my role is to sort of keep everything ticking over and managing everything and everyone.
Speaker: And yeah, it's just... i I hope that you people like you and I, like we can kind of pioneer diversifying this end of life space, this industry, because um there's just so little knowledge about all the pieces that need to come together.
Speaker: and ah people think like, oh, it's just the funeral director or yeah whatever, because we just don't talk about it that much. and And people do sort of end up planning things a bit last minute.
Speaker: um And the more that we do, you know, like these podcasts and educational workshops, um it gets people thinking a little bit earlier on about seeking out the diversity of resources that they might need some point. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: No, i argue i I get so many last minute phone calls. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I can't take it because I'm booked. Yeah. Yeah. But if you had if you knew that your person was quite elderly or quite sick, um you know, if it's not an a sudden thing, um it's good to start, you know, planning and and get help, you know, like seek out support from people who've like who who are professionals and who've done this thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: No, absolutely. Thank you so much. Before we go, and since you've been so voluntary in a sharing a tune, do you want to share with us a little snippet of and the name of your company, the Sardinian song?
Speaker: song Oh, do you want me to sing it? I would love it. Okay. So this song called Sound and Memory is originally from Sardinia.
Speaker: My background is Sicilian, which is ah quite close to Sardinia. and yeah sure you're my bucket list places. I haven't gotten to either, but want to. So this song is actually in the... um Sardinian language. So it's it's a mix of Greek and Spanish and Italian and all sorts of things. So I had to phonetically write the lyrics to pronounce it correctly.
Speaker: my mind is in the middle of my mind, I can't stop. I'm a memory of my skin.
Speaker: In the heart of eyes, I will be in the heart of my eyes. I will be in the heart of my eyes.
Speaker: I will be in the heart of my eyes. will be in the heart of my eyes.
Speaker: Yeah. Excellent. Very good. ah Yeah. Very good. Well, that's a great way to end the episode. Thank you so much for being a guest, Cancetta. And we watch, bated breath, all the things that you're going to do.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: you
