Transcript
Speaker: bringing those really deeper stories to some of the facts and fiction that we all kind of know through pop culture when you're studying death.
Speaker: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast. I'm your host Jennifer Muldowney aka the Glam Reaper herself and on today's episode I am joined by the gorgeous Alison who is going to introduce herself and tell us all a about herself. Welcome Alison.
Speaker: Well thanks for having me Jennifer. um You're too kind. I've got to say I love the I love the tag the Glam Reaper. It's it's pretty great. So I go 90% of the time and even when I do look quote unquote glam I'm like I don't know but anyway I go by Alison Danger in some spaces. um It's actually, you know, all jokes aside, one of my middle names.
Speaker: It started, oh well, a little bit about me first. I am a death studies student working on my master's in death studies at the University of Winchester in the UK.
Speaker: Before that, before I dove into the academic side of things, I've worked in death care as primarily an embalmer, but funeral director and embalmer up for about 20 years. Since 07. So quite a long time.
Speaker: Frontlines of death care as well. Very cool. Now you have tagline or a pseudonym yourself. I do. So I go by Alison Danger. My full name's Alison Danger Kathy Middlebrook.
Speaker: But that is, it started out as my ah pen name because I started writing some comics and graphic novels. And I kind of wanted to keep my professional work and my fun work separate. And once I leaned into the idea that I was actually writing stories that really were thematically death relevant, I leaned into the idea that I really shouldn't be keeping these apart. There might be something more to this.
Speaker: So I go by Alice in Danger. Yes. But there's another, there's another word that you've had to play on words. the pod. Yes. So I do my own educationally based podcast and it's called definitely instead of definitely. There we go. And and yes, exactly right.
Speaker: So we're all about the the fun tweaks and tweaks and look whatever gets you listening is That's right. That's right. so is So is that just a podcast? It's it's no it's ah no more than it's just podcast.
Speaker: I don't need that. If you're listening to this, you're listening to podcasts. so and I'm not saying just a podcast because I'm trying to play it down. I'm saying there's nothing more to it than that, should I say.
Speaker: As of right now, no, we've toyed with the idea of doing some but video podcasting as well. But ultimately, for right now, we're we're in the audio realm. Okay, okay.
Speaker: So tell us, how did you come to be in this in this space? Like, what drew you? So I'm not going to tell the what got me into funeral services and an embalming story, but I will tell you what got me into the academia of death studies.
Speaker: About, I want to say three years ago, but it might have been four. um My husband had a heart attack. He's a young man. um it was very jarring, very out of the blue. Turns out it was a congenital thing. It's been looked after. He's quite healthy. So, um you know, happy end to the story. But at that time, I've always been the type of personality that tackles problems through education and learning.
Speaker: So when we were going through the throes of that, I really dove into everything I could, even working in, you know, the deaf care industry. I felt like I needed to know more. I needed to research. I was, you know, hungry for any information I could have in this space.
Speaker: And not in a perfunctory way that, you know, I had at work, but really in that academic research-based arena. So I dove in, and I would say almost maybe pathologically so, but in the end, I realized that it really was the way that I wanted to progress.
Speaker: um getting into the, you know, research side of things drove me and I had written a little bit fictionally. And then I realized that academics actually get to write for a living.
Speaker: And that's pretty awesome. So yeah, so that's kind of what drew me. So again, happy end of the story. He's well, and I'm on my way to some postgraduate work.
Speaker: So yeah, alls out All's well that ends well, I guess. Very good. So when you say you're like, like what's what's your focus day to day right now? Is it the academia? um You know what?
Speaker: My time is split ah because I am a bit of a sucker for punishment. um Working full time, mum to a wonderful 14-year-old daughter who thinks that I'm very uncool.
Speaker: And then the academia as well, which I'm doing in a part part-time studies. I'm not that crazy. So yeah, a little bit of everything. Okay, so what does that typical day look like? ah Getting the kiddo off to school, off to work in the embalming suite for about eight or nine hours.
Speaker: I'll usually do some schoolwork on my lunch break and then home and lots of reading in the evenings. And if you were to fast forward five years from now, or maybe there's a listener out there who can offer you your dream job, what would that be?
Speaker: um The big thing for me is education. And I don't necessarily know what that looks like, whether it would be in you know a college or university setting, whether it would be through continuing education.
Speaker: But deaf education across the board, i think, is where my passion lies. So bringing, you know, where the podcast goes, you know, bringing those really, you know, cool, but what I think is cool, you know, deeper stories to some of the facts and fiction that we all kind of know through pop culture when you're studying death. And then,
Speaker: I think it's a really big thing. You know, we've we've got, ah especially in, you know, the the Western, you know, culture, it's very death, not death defying, but ah death defensive. Nobody wants to talk about it. Nobody wants to learn about it. And i think we're really underserving ourselves. So having public engagement, even at the high school level, so that we're able to have you know, kids that are coming out of high school that are interested in this because, you know, like so many of your guests, I'm sure have said none of us get out of this alive. Right.
Speaker: So it's not really, it has to do with, yeah, it has to do with the education for me. So I'm not exactly sure what that'll look like in the long run, but it's definitely where my passion is.
Speaker: Right. And writing, you were kind of saying. ah Yes, of course. And again, that's where the academia comes in. So, you know, where a lot of people would look and say, oh, my God, I've got to write 10,000 words about, you know, this deaf theorist where I'm kind of like, that's so exciting. Let's dive in.
Speaker: So, you know, kind of the the lifelong learner, the lifelong, you know, nerdy gal, just I just love I love learning. ah Yeah. And it doesn't seem to matter which side of the, you know, which side of the desk I'm on. So I'm pretty, I'm pretty excited.
Speaker: ah Well, we had, I'm not sure actually was he guest on. I know I was a guest on his, but did we actually end up having him on mine? i'm not sure. John Adams in the UK. Do you know? Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, I love what he's been trying to do in terms of getting education, grief and death education into schools. Totally agree with you. I think there's a lot of There's a lot of future mortuary students out there that don't even realize.
Speaker: I mean, i certainly didn't. um And and yes, I which are often joke about. I mean, I should have it should have been a clear signal. But when I was 15, 16, I worked in a bar as most will do. We grow up. That's the first job we have. Well, that wasn't my first job, but it was called the morgue.
Speaker: So. Oh, yeah. That's pretty on the nose. Yeah, should have been a clear sign. But it took me nearly 15 years later to actually jump ship into what I do. But yeah, I definitely think there is people out there with whether it's a morbid fascination. And I actually even hate that term.
Speaker: and being I feel like it just sounds like it's sick and wrong, like a morbid fascination where it's not. It's just you're probably just one of the most aware people if you're like, oh, we're going to die.
Speaker: i should look into it. Yeah. and Yeah, I should. I should check that out. um Yeah, for me, what really drew me in was the the the biological fascination. And it was that medicine was far too competitive. and It wasn't something that I was going to strive in that, you know, that type of camaraderie and, you know, pitting people's successes against one another. It just, it wasn't a space that I was going to be successful in.
Speaker: So it took me a bit of time, but to figure out that I would still get to you know, do things that are similar to what surgeons do, that are similar to what nurses do or porters, you know, are our job on the frontline death care really encompasses so much of what's happening in the healthcare care system um that I was able to kind of transpose my biological fascinations and working, you know, in that science side over to death care. So yeah, I quite enjoyed it.
Speaker: Yeah, I try. Personally, I try and read um sort of books in the business, but also I'm obsessed with business books as well. But then I also read my fiction books. So sometimes it can get a little overwhelming and when there's like so many different things to read.
Speaker: And then and in terms of podcasts and audio books, I mean, there's just so many things and there's not enough time in the day. I mean, I'm currently writing my fourth book, which it's funny because like I've been writing it for years and I thought I had it niched at the end of 2023 and actually did like trying to get it published and stuff like that. And now I can, then I put that on pause about two months later because I was just sort of overwhelmed with other things and stuff. So I need to pick it up to finish it.
Speaker: But because it's not an easy thing to do writing a book and Our books will be quite different because one of the things I've realised about myself lately is I'm not academic.
Speaker: Yeah. So like last year I did a number of courses. I did one in pet loss, grief and bereavement and AI. And what I realized is I'm very much, I mean, I'm educated. I've, I mean, I've tons of diplomas and a degree and all the shite that you're supposed to do. Ticking all pop.
Speaker: I'm going to a wall full of fun stuff. A wall full of good things. But what I realized doing in, in doing the courses is I'm definitely, I'm a very practical person. I'm more about real life than I am. I think I've also, I've been doing, recording my own celebrant training course, and which will hopefully go live. Well, by the time this podcast is on the air, it'll be live. But um it's been an interesting interesting journey because I really realized that I'm i'm less about the academic side of things than I am about the practicality of it, I guess. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Yeah, it's just been an interesting journey to kind of realize that. and And I think there's there's space for both in the world. And I think, oh, for sure, on to both. But definitely one of the things i feel like I've noticed in the books I've been reading in our space, in the funeral space, are more academic than not.
Speaker: I feel like there'st there's less practical books. There's there' been quite a few I've noticed since, but just yeah it's just don't know just noticing things as I do yeah yeah and you know what I think the the big thing too you mentioned taking a break with writing and you know diving into other things I've got my novel it's always kind of in the back of my computer space and I tick along with it when I find the time but Even from like the the graphic novel and comic space, people don't realize what a trudge and how long the publishing process is.
Speaker: So I think they kind of take that for granted. You know, they see the New York Times bestseller come out and they're like oh, yeah, you know, that's great. bu bla Not realizing that that person's probably been working on it for, you know, a decade.
Speaker: You know, it's almost 10 years. That's fine. So ah it's it's so often forgotten. So good on you. Please keep writing. We're all waiting. yeah Well, it's it job it's so true because who was't was it? It was something I was reading or talking to somebody about or somebody interviewed me for a book they're doing. And like that, like I remember my first book and actually I personally think I was absolutely blessed with my first book in terms of I wrote it between 10 p.m. and 4 a.m.
Speaker: every night for, I think, about two months solid. As in, I had all of the research, but I kind of, okay, we're sitting down and we're doing it. And I did what I usually do for myself, which is put a reward at the end of the tunnel, like,
Speaker: And at the time, I think it was a trip to New York because I was still in Ireland. So I was like, right, I have to submit this book to my editor by the time I go on this trip. And so it was did that worked for me.
Speaker: But it's it's such an interesting process because you hand that book in and you think that's it. Great. Done. Now the work starts. Yeah. No, I thought great. Great.
Speaker: That's it. Done and dusted. No, the editing is the fuck me. It's horrific. How you get a magic for a graphic novel or any sort of back and forth? And then you know, the time delay and, you know, you see celebrities on TV and they're they're out, you know, promoting their newest film. And, you know, often we forget, well, they filmed it like two years ago. So they're trying to get back into that headspace, back into that character space. And it feels very similar Oh, yeah, i wrote that three or four years ago.
Speaker: attitudes have kind of changed a little bit. I'll get back on board. Sure. And even things like you have to be careful, like facts, you know, my first book, the facts, the certain parts of it that are completely invalid, like less than six months later, I was like, well, there it goes that.
Speaker: There we go. Yeah, then we worked that chapter. Okay. In a, i just out curiosity, in a graphic novel, I mean, I i actually, it's always been a part of my vision board or just something I've always wanted to do. And eventually I will, is do a children's book. and i've I've been writing it since I was a kid myself. I have the character and all that sort of stuff. So eventually I wouldn't like it done. And actually yesterday I took a day off to try and sort of I work seven days a week like a lunatic. Yep. By choice, you know. and i love what I do, but it's... And also, i try and take Sundays off, but then that's the day that a lot of people want to have services or they're off, so they want to talk.
Speaker: But i am yesterday, I was able to... i actually ended up... This is bananas. am I worked through the night, Sunday night, like literally did not have a bed. Just because I wanted to get... I wanted the day off yesterday.
Speaker: And there was a certain... and I told you, I'm very much a Yeah, you're very goal-oriented. Yes. clearly put that carrot out and I literally was like I'm i'm very much a night owl as opposed to an early bird so like I'll do a lot of my writing um at night so I just plowed through and literally like at 6.30 in the morning I was like okay time for bed and then i was like wait it's the last step But I enjoyed my day. It was great. Anyway, point it is that I had this day off and I really, really wanted this day off because it's rare.
Speaker: And I wanted to have a whole day off because I really wanted to start tapping into my creative Like I used to draw Disney characters and cartoons when I was a kid.
Speaker: I just recently went on a trip to Disneyland. I did that got reignited. Oh, I was just like, I need to start doing, doing things that are not just hobbies for exercise, like that are not just I'm doing it like I love cooking, but I'm cooking because I need to eat.
Speaker: ah You know, doing yoga, but I'm doing yoga because I want a decent body. I'm like, I need to do a hobby that's just cut you know so I dug up some of my old things and I yeah I found the old cartoons and and my sketchbooks and stuff like that and I was like oh my god really need to to get back into this but then I was like Jen don't get into it because it's gonna don't it start turn into this book that you don't want to add to your pile of things because then it'll be I'll be doing it a day off and then at the end of the night I'll be like wait is that a day off I've added myself another task exactly or have I just given myself another another work day another thing to do yep
Speaker: So, and but in terms of like editing, that editing process, and do they ever like tell you to change a character or something or? um So it really depends. ah I've done some work for hire for companies where I'm i'm writing their characters. So that's a little bit different.
Speaker: um But most of my work is creator owned. So which means I've come up with the the story I've come up with. you know, the concept, and then a publisher will say yay or nay. So they'll take a look at some of the work and they're like, oh yes, this fits with our vision or no, it doesn't.
Speaker: So I've been really lucky to find people that were into, you know, what I was putting out there. As far as that kind of editing process goes, there's not a lot of it unless you're working for somebody who has an established character. So and let's say you know you're writing for Batman ah there's going to be a lot of editing they're going to go back and forth with you a lot as far as you know that's not what he would say that's not how he behaved because there's you know 75 years of character that you have to maintain so not such a big deal for me but it can be
Speaker: yeah in that writing space. But it's such a great way to get people, especially young people, into learning. So it's not just, you know, capes and and swords anymore, when it comes to, you know, comic learning.
Speaker: um As I said, my my story that my first graphic novel started out as, oh, it was kind of like a love letter to all the women in a particular person's ah first inauguration down in the States.
Speaker: And from there, it it really turned into much more of a transhumanist view. So it was really, it turned into a story about what it meant to be human, what it meant to have rights and allowances and all those things.
Speaker: And of course, there's a robot because robots are awesome. and So when I look back on it now, it really was that critique about transhuman thought and process. And, you know, if you download your mind, are you still you and how that affects the people around you?
Speaker: um But ultimately, that's kind of where it got me and it started in a way different spot but we got there and like I said when I looked back all those years later realized that it really is about life and death and what makes you you and all that kind of good stuff so um for me it's much more about working with talented people like yourself because I have not been given the gift of the artistic flair I can write till the the day is long but when it comes to drawing stick figures are as far as I can go
Speaker: Very cool. Well, listen, stick figures have their place too. I guess so. That's true. But I've gotten to work with a lot of wonderful artists. So to be able to bring that vision into the real world is pretty crazy and wonderful.
Speaker: Yeah. And it's, I mean, that's such a topical thing right now, or at least I feel like it is. I've a total fascination with sort of all things, digital, afterlife, AI, you know, we all know the DNR, do not resuscitate or do DNR, as Americans would say.
Speaker: i will never say tomatoes. It will always be tomatoes. yeah Irish till the day I die. It'll be on my tombstone. Tomatoes, basil, oregano.
Speaker: Anyway, the aluminium. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's a huge for aluminium and aluminium. I'm fascinated with the whole digital space because now we've got like DNRs and do not reanimate.
Speaker: It's like holograms. I mean, do we have permission to be using them? Right. Like all of that sort of stuff. I mean, it's. What's a person's legacy look like now? Exactly. Like it was Audrey Hepburn meant to be in that galaxy ad. I mean, would she have approved that? Right. Exactly.
Speaker: And are people, you know, are your next of kin able to make those decisions for you. Like at what point does that end? It's it's a really interesting discussion space. I've been doing a lot of reading about it.
Speaker: It's so cool. I've been very lucky. I've been on a panel or two and chatted with people about it. And like I chaired, gosh, years ago now, but I chaired at the Digital Legacy Conference when the guys from UK were over here. and Cool.
Speaker: It's um it's such a fascinating space and I don't think enough resources have gone into it, even in like the larger companies, the metas and stuff. I don't think they kind of they give it as much budget or resources as as it should have. But anyway, listen, I guess in some ways, least of the problems in the United States at the moment. But am we won't get into that.
Speaker: Fair, but yes. um One thing that I had come across was a young lady developed a chat bot that ran on an AI system. She fed it her friends, um you know, texts and emails and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: And it basically created a ah digital chatbot that was her friend that had passed away. um And my first question for that, ah as much as the technology is fascinating, um what are the psychological ramifications of never letting go of someone?
Speaker: So yeah it really struck me as and as with all of the things in that kind of space is that we really have no idea how this is going to affect people in the long run. No. Like I found the show Black Mirror.
Speaker: Oh, so creepy. Yeah. It was so good, but terrifying. Yes, exactly. Like it was one of those, like, i'm I don't hate horrors. I don't love them. I'm like, a I'll go. It's kind of like a roller coaster. Like, yeah, in the moment, i but like the the build open up and stuff.
Speaker: So to me, it was a horror show that just hit too close to home because every single episode could be reality and the one where he had was it he had or she had the AI bot of the person I can't remember but yeah and and two of my favorite oh yes yes yes Donal Gleeson was one of them and then Hayley Atwood I think is the other one I love the two of them so I was actually obsessed with that episode in general but just obviously it touches on what we we we'd just be talking about have a secret guys please go and see it so but yeah terrifying and terrifyingly good so close to real
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. So many of those episodes, I'm like, oh, creeped me out. But anyway, well, listen, it was lovely to have you on. Thank you. I mean, we kind of touched on loads of different topics there. Amazing. And thank you for for sharing your story with us. And um yeah, hopefully we'll have you back on soon when you have that first book written.
Speaker: Oh, here's hoping. But thank you so much for having me. It's been wonderful. Excellent. Well, we'll talk to you again soon, Alison. Thank you so much.
Speaker: you
