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More Than a Profession, It's Heart: The People Behind the Funeral Industry — What I Learned at IFDF
40 Plays7 days ago
What Really Happens Behind the Scenes in the Funeral Industry?
Have you ever wondered what it’s really like to work in death care? In this episode of The Glam Reaper Podcast, I take you inside the Independent Funeral Directors of Florida Convention where I met the changemakers shaping the future of funerals.
From AI-powered tribute videos to autopsy cases that reveal shocking truths, this episode is filled with raw and heartfelt stories. I spoke with funeral tech innovators, long-time directors, a scholarship-winning student, and a forensic pathologist whose second autopsies are changing lives.
We dive into grief, regulation, compassion, second chances, and the deep humanity behind every service. This is not just about funerals. It is about people, purpose, and the power of doing meaningful work.
Tune in to hear what no one tells you about the funeral world and why it matters more than ever.
Key Topics:
-The human side of funeral innovation
-Serving families with compassion and clarity
-Regulation, second chances, and doing the right thing
-Finding purpose through grief and service
-Stories that reveal the heart behind every farewell
Timestamp:
[00:00] Podcast Intro
[00:32] We had a chat with Zach from Tukios to hear how his team evolved from creating tribute videos to building modern websites for funeral homes. He opens up about how they now use AI to restore photos, protect families from harmful content, and even support writing obituaries with care.
[05:50] We talk with Earline Blumhagen, a licensed funeral director and print coordination specialist, who reflects on her 28-year journey in the funeral profession. Her dedication and wisdom shine through as she shares the heart behind her work.
[11:44] We meet Darrell, a future funeral director whose passion for serving his community led him to this path. He opens up about how a professor’s encouragement and a scholarship changed his life and deepened his calling.
[12:48] We speak with Tyler from Repose, a platform that helps families plan funerals with ease and clarity. Tyler shares how Repose empowers families to compare options and connect with funeral homes that meet their needs.
[15:34] We have a meaningful conversation with Crystal from Florida’s funeral regulation board. She offers insight into how licensing decisions are made with both compassion and fairness and why standards matter so deeply in this work.
[21:24] We chat with Heather, executive director of IFDF, who shares how she reimagined the annual convention into something truly special. She talks about creating a space where professionals feel seen, supported, and part of a caring community.
[26:26] We close with Dr. Daniel, a forensic pathologist whose stories stay with you long after they’re told. He shares moments from second autopsies that changed lives and one unforgettable case involving handwritten notes hidden inside a man’s body—offering a glimpse into the powerful intersection of grief, truth, and healing
[41:08] Outro
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Transcript
A Forensic Pathologist's Bizarre Case
00:00:00
Speaker
We opened his bowels, and in his colon, there were 13 tiny little chiclet-sized wrapped, saran wraps tied with strings, probably from his clothing, wrapped around little notes.
00:00:14
Speaker
And those little notes were written to me. oh In his bowels. He had eaten them. And in those notes, he wrote...
Introduction to the Glam Reaper Podcast
00:00:32
Speaker
Hi everyone and welcome to the Glam Reaper podcast. I am accompanied here by the fabulous 2Kios rep. We've got Zach here. but did get your name right. Great. That's always a good start.
00:00:43
Speaker
So we're here at the independent ah funeral Florida Funeral Directors Association. Their annual
2Kios's Evolution to AI Solutions
00:00:49
Speaker
convention. Tell us what do 2Kios bring? Tsukiyos has been the industry for the longest time. Originally, it was for our tribute video software. Yes, I remember that.
00:00:58
Speaker
Showing off the you know the loved one after they've passed on. um But after 2020, we saw a need in the industry for a better website product for these feeder involves. something more modern, to help bring them into the modern age and really stand out against their competition, especially with the people that they were going to be servicing like you and me. Yeah. ah That, you know, technology is a big part of our life. so It is. We stepped into that. And in the four years that we've been doing websites, we've been privileged to work with about 4,200 funeral homes now. 4,200? Holy shit. ju adult Yeah, it it jumped up quite quick.
00:01:35
Speaker
But it's just sad because of the way our... Our business model is set up. Everyone really likes it. It's beneficial with a
Impact of AI on Funeral Services
00:01:42
Speaker
funeral home to the families and to the local florists. Great. And I remember actually there was a convention I was at recently. I'm not sure if it was in Florida where one of your guys was talking about AI. Yes. Because obviously that is huge. Very huge.
00:01:54
Speaker
And kind of scary. I have talked about it as well as most of you know. and But yeah, huge and quite scary. What are your thoughts on what age you? On 24. 24. So he's on your baby. yeah but As 24, mean, you really are the, yeah, you're the generation that are, yes, yes, yes.
00:02:11
Speaker
Us old
AI's Role in Tribute Videos and Obituaries
00:02:12
Speaker
fogies are still trying to figure it out. do Not doing too bad, but you guys are going to be the ones that are going to be living with it a lot more than us. What are your thoughts on it? And I know, like, I think the guy, he he brought back his grandmother or his grandfather from the grave effectively in AI.
00:02:28
Speaker
Tell me what your thoughts are on that. Well, I tell everyone when I'm introducing the AI features that we've developed that until the Coke machine turns into a transformer and comes after me, I think AI is moving in the right direction as of right now.
00:02:41
Speaker
um But we've got a lot of different ways that we've implemented AI. So in the Tribute videos, cleaning up pictures that are blurry. I love that. and Not everyone knows how to use Photoshop. So the AI can do that. adriangen ho It'll automatically recognize any duplicates and remove duplicates for you.
00:02:57
Speaker
And now in the obituaries ah down at the bottom in the guest book where families are expressing their condolences and um leaving messages for family members to read, the AI will actually recognize any harmful or spam messages and flag that for the funeral directors to see.
00:03:13
Speaker
one And then they can quickly go through and delete those. And it'll even look through the pictures and make sure that everything in the picture is family friendly and something you want on your loved ones. Exactly. so And while that sounds crazy, i mean, if you're following this podcast for a while, you'll know that there is the craziest out there.
00:03:31
Speaker
And I have seen because we have built websites for some of my families and I have seen spam and like crazy stuff getting it. And it really is hurtful. Yeah, it is. The family is really, really hard. We had a lot of calls from the funeral homes just, you beside themselves that family that they love or even their own family would have something like this appear on the earth.
00:03:51
Speaker
um One other, I guess the last thing that we've done to implement AI is... is We've taken the most recent model of the best AI engines and added in our own code into it so that you you, know, funeral directors can actually use AI to type out an obituary for a family. So they can take a pre-written obituary and plug that in and AI will expand on it and you can actually change the tones of it. So if you went in and you wanted to make something that had some Irish slang that people would recognize, You can tell Chagi or I guess our age, I told to do that and it'll type it out.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No, it is pretty impressive. It has definitely helped me in my communications. I will still always say tomato. It'll never be tomato. And a I won't get
AI in Movies: Fiction vs Reality
00:04:37
Speaker
that at all. But am and this is interesting because last night in my hotel room, I threw on a movie while I was working. And guess what movie came on?
00:04:46
Speaker
ah Transformers. Oh, terminate ah Terminator. Oh, Terminator. And it was the new one where Arnold, like I grew up on Terminator, so it's great. It's the the latest one, I think, where he's a good guy in it, which was like, all right, Arnie. Whatever, it takes fun. It kind of does. And Sarah caught, anyway, whatever, we won't get into that.
00:05:00
Speaker
But like, tell me one negative thing that you foresee with AI. One negative thing that I've seen with AI just all over? Yeah. Well, well in the death space. In the death space.
00:05:13
Speaker
Honestly, I can't think of anything that I've had an experience with in the death space with AI. um The only, I guess, big problem that I've seen with AI and that a lot of people are really nervous about is um how easy it is to make something look very, very realistic.
00:05:29
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I guess that could probably you know be implemented in the death space if someone had bad intentions, ah uploading a a very realistic picture of the deceased that wasn't real, how that was fabricated, the AI.
00:05:42
Speaker
But that's the biggest, I guess the scariest thing that I've seen with AI is just you don't know what's real and what's not anymore because of that good. That is true. That is
The Funeral Industry: Roles and Challenges
00:05:52
Speaker
right. Okay, we will leave it on that now. Go and watch Terminator.
00:05:54
Speaker
Thank you very much for sharing your time with us here today. are those show So, hello welcome, Earlene. Earlene. Earlene, I love that name. Well, my name is Jennifer Earlene, so tell us a little bit about your fabulous self. Oh my goodness, I'm so excited to be here. Jennifer.
00:06:12
Speaker
I am Earlene Blumhagen. I am a licensed funeral director. I am licensed pre-planning specialist, as well as being a concierge coordination high-end printing firm. Yeah, Jab Designs Orlando.
00:06:26
Speaker
We serve on the board here as well. Wow. We're the secretary for the independent funeral directors, and what an honor. Fabulous. um What an honor it is to serve funeral directors and firms all across the state of Florida.
00:06:41
Speaker
Independence. Yes, I know. I love that. Independence. This my first time here and I'm loving the family vibe. It's been very, very cool. Exactly. it a lovely Very, very cool. Beautiful location as well, right? Very nice. And it's going be the same here next year as well. Every year we've been here for the last four or five years. Four per years. so Three years, four years.
00:07:01
Speaker
Don't quote me on that one, but we've been here. Very nice. yeah yes And how long have you been involved with the independent funeral director? I've been involved now three years. Okay, very nice. And how long a licensed funeral director?
00:07:12
Speaker
I've been licensed now three years. Okay. Okay, great. You love us. I love it. love But I've been in the industry 28 years. Most of the day over 28. I know. So it started as a sperm.
00:07:28
Speaker
I like that one. I'm still that one. Okay, right? Yes. Now, we're in Florida, so it's warm. It is warm. I mean, I need to get me one of them. As an Irish person of Larch, sweating buckets, sweating buckets. Yes, yes, yes. So and to tell us, you've been in the business for 28 years, doing the print.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yes. Love this. Print is so important. The high-end print work. But more importantly, before we get there, it's the coordination of everything that needs to happen.
00:07:57
Speaker
To get in that seat, to get a family in that seat. So we're serving families. We're serving the firms. Yeah. That serve the family. Yeah. And it's just a beautiful thing.
00:08:08
Speaker
And I like to liken it to wedding coordinator. Okay. A bride traditionally will take up to a year, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. She will because she knows she has to cross the T's and not be I's.
00:08:23
Speaker
We do that in two to three days. Wow. It's craziness. Yes. It's like weddings on crack. Yeah. Well. It's like weddings on crack. Okay. We'll scratch the crack part, but yes.
00:08:38
Speaker
do you So you love us. And what made you move from doing that to becoming an actual licensed funeral? I did not move. Oh. I added to my portfolio. Yes, it was not a move. Jab Designs, and and every funeral director knows that. yeah Jab Designs is my heartbeat.
00:08:56
Speaker
Serving the families yeah and serving the firms that serve those families. Yeah. But we wanted to be able to bring a um ah more intensive service to the table okay for both the firm and the families. Okay. And that's why we decided to go back to school and study and become a licensed funeral director so that we could better serve with understanding. That's what it's all about. Very good. right Yeah. You got to get yourself a good understanding. You do. You do. You do. So, because we actually, so I myself am a celebrant. Okay. And also, am if you like, a wedding coordinator planner up in New York. But we just got down here.
00:09:38
Speaker
So we totally agree with you on everything you've said. It's so important sir or understand the industry. and do So many people come into this business not understanding it, but thinking they're going to sell. Yes.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yes. And they just don't understand. And it starts with the love for... those families. Exactly. It always goes right to the family. Everything does. yeah And I think that's so important that we understand that as a profession, but also we learn how to communicate that to community.
00:10:08
Speaker
Yeah. It all goes back to the family. It's about serving. Family and serving those farms that serve those families. Yes. And I love what you said earlier when you were explaining to me about, you know, how you meet Mrs. Jones. Yes. And it might be originally to talk about the order of service yeah and the the print. Yeah. But how she get you get involved in ah the other aspects to allow Mrs. Jones to be present in the moment. i think that's what it's about I think that's so important. When you think about what a family go through to get to the point where we're at the chapel, we're at the event, we're at the church or wherever we're going to hell this event. Girl, it's sweat. Got my glasses falling off my face.
00:10:49
Speaker
Okay. So anyway. We're at the event and Mrs. Jones is distracted with what's next. yeah Oh, I forgot to call.
00:11:01
Speaker
oh is she going to sing? Oh, or we forgot the CD. I've updated myself now. um We forgot to contact the sound person or what have you.
00:11:12
Speaker
And so the whole idea with that serving the family and serving the ferns that serve the family They don't have to worry about that. She could be in the moment. She could celebrate her husband's life and legacy yeah with the spirit of excellence. I love that. yeah Yes. Very good. I love that, Arlene. Well, thank you so much. Well, thank you. Join us. Yes, Wendy and Olo. But we don't miss next year.
00:11:36
Speaker
Don't miss next year. That's it. IFDF, Independent Funeral Directors of Florida, we'd love to see you. We'd love to meet you. And just thank you for listening. Hello,
Repose: Revolutionizing Funeral Planning
00:11:46
Speaker
Darrell, and welcome. What brings you to the Independence General Directors?
00:11:50
Speaker
oh i name mut pa benha I'm here to learn more about the different businesses that support the industry. Okay. the cash companies, the fluid companies. and Just go into the facts. It's okay.
00:12:04
Speaker
Stuff of that and such. And just to learn more about the people that help support us as we support Fairness. Okay, so you are training to be a funeral director. Yes. Okay.
00:12:15
Speaker
What made you go into this field? um The service to Puket. um I'm very compassionate about community service and serving the community. I think being a funeral director is one way that I can do that.
00:12:25
Speaker
Wow. And have you done that? Have you had any experience in funeral homes yet? Yes. You have. Did you love it? Yes. Okay, very cool. And very excitingly, you won a scholarship.
00:12:36
Speaker
I do. Wow. What happened? How did that come about? Yes. So um actually my professor sent a scholarship to all the students and telling us to apply. And I just went forward and applied. And here we are. Here we are.
00:12:50
Speaker
Here we are. But this is great. Well, congratulations. I'm sure you'll make a great funeral director and we wish you all the best to look. Thank you so much. This is Tyler from Repose. um Tyler, tell us what brings you to a funeral convention.
00:13:04
Speaker
Well, um aside from all of the interesting things going on here... um Nobody's dead. Everyone's okay. We're fine. Repose is an online funeral planning tool for families, and we help connect them with funeral homes that best fit their needs, tell them about all the you know information about that funeral home, what cultures they serve, religions, ah pricing information, and then sort of seamlessly connect them. So we're here to talk with some of the funeral home ah relationships, you know nurture those, and make some more friends along the way.
00:13:39
Speaker
Very good, because it's all about friendships in this business. and So it's kind of, for people who don't understand, is it is it kind of like a Yelp? Yeah, it's sort of like a Yelp or like an Airbnb or something like that. okay um Angie's List is another one I've heard a lot.
00:13:56
Speaker
ah But yeah, we want to provide a really familiar experience for anyone who is used to sort of basic online browsing. If you're ah someone who shops on Amazon, you'd be able to figure out Repose and connect pretty quickly. And can you plan the entire funeral?
00:14:10
Speaker
You can. um We're working on ways to make that even quicker for people who are into, you know, expedience. But we've had families do it in under five minutes and then families take their time and really go into the details.
00:14:24
Speaker
Okay. And when the funeral is planned, then they take it to their chosen funeral home or... Yeah, so the idea for us is, um you know, ah Kelly Blue Books or any of those other like auto type things where you have all the information when you show up to a dealership, you want be an informed buyer. So you want to make sure that book parties are equally informed.
00:14:47
Speaker
There's nothing hidden. There's nothing unexpected. And then the funeral home will contact you after you're reserved. They have 24 hours to do that. You've not seen anyone take 24 hours, um but they'll follow up with you.
00:15:01
Speaker
You're not paying on our site. That's very important for us. You're figuring out the precise details of your funeral before you ever contact the cabotter. Okay, very good. And then they go in, meet with the funeral director. Exactly. It's much the same process. We just want to give you the tools to make the best decision possible.
00:15:18
Speaker
Very good. Well, we like that. We like to have the tools. That is great. And are you in Florida just at the moment? Yeah, right now we're just in South Florida. So it's Miami, Broward, Palm Beach counties. okay um But that should change pretty soon.
00:15:33
Speaker
Very good. More to come. We'll watch this space. Thank you very much for joining us, Tyler. Thank you
Funeral Regulations and Emotional Challenges
00:15:38
Speaker
for having Hello. Now, what is your name? Crystal. or all great Crystal. Yes. Crystal, you have a very important job. Yes, me. At the Independent Funeral Directors Association. Do I? Very important.
00:15:49
Speaker
From what I hear, but you are part of the regulation team. Am I right? Okay. Regulation, massively, massively big for those because people who listen to this are non-funeral directors and funeral directors. So we always got to kind of be crooked. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:03
Speaker
and And it's important, I think, for like, because I'm not a funeral director, licensed funeral director, but I'm in the space. And I always think like, well, what would I want to know? You know, when my mom's going through this process or my dad or whatever, you want to know.
00:16:15
Speaker
So regulation, it's interesting. In Ireland, we don't have regulation. Really? I know. You don't have to be licensed. Okay. Now, there's a lot of states in America. One of the things I find hilarious about America is the United States that are not united at all. yeah So one state can be totally different. Correct.
00:16:33
Speaker
Okay. So you're in Florida. Yes. Tell me about Florida state regulation. As far as there's a rage. So there's the regulation of the pre-need side. There's a regulation of the cemetery side. There's for the funeral homes. And then there's also regulation for the individual licensees. Yeah.
00:16:48
Speaker
I don't know what's different, but us from state to state, we kind of have similar regulations. It's just the way everybody goes about it little bit differently. I'm curious to know how there's no regulation in and Ireland, but there's policies and procedures. Yes. so Well, there's ah there's ah an association. Yes. Our regulating statutes, although everybody's familiar, 497 Florida statute and 69K, the Florida Administrative Code.
00:17:11
Speaker
Everything for our division is regulated under there. We're all trying to follow that to the T, but we're also trying to work with the industry to make changes in ga and connections. And so that's why we're here at this convention, just to foster good working relationships, listen to what we can listen to.
00:17:27
Speaker
Hopefully you hear what we have to say. We a board meeting here today. That was interesting for everyone. It was. I said, I didn't know that. You've got to kind of see the side of the regulation. We don't know if every state has a board. They may have a committee or something. you know Yeah. a I don't know.
00:17:40
Speaker
But that's how we do it here. And we just kind of seem to try to make it seem like it's all for the benefit of the consumer. Yeah. that's what It was very interesting. And i yeah for me as an Irish person, it was a bit like a judge. It's like, oh, my God.
00:17:53
Speaker
It can be intimidating if you're not used to it. I'm not used to it. And also just you kind of assume, oh, we're just going to talk about it. quote-unquote boring funeral. But it's not. oh There was a lot of life stories. It's like a vetting process to make sure we try to bring in the most competent and people with integrity. Yeah. um netflix But then I also saw, I think it was you, and there was, we won't may not name any names or anything, but there was somebody there who had...
00:18:19
Speaker
Seemed to have gone through some difficulties and had a criminal record or like a fresh, like a one only time. Okay. And, you know, that they had to say they were applying for something and they had to put press pause because the committee were like, if you get a denial, it's on your record forever. Yes.
00:18:36
Speaker
I mean, I was like, oh God, that's so intimidating. But they gave her options. Yeah. it was a great That was a great thing. so And she did accept the options. Yeah. But I saw you comforting and like. Yes. I just wanted to make sure, you know, matter what happens, we all people, I know that was a for her. Yes.
00:18:50
Speaker
Yeah. yeah because I felt. it I spoke to a guy that was outside who he was just in charge of the auction. And he said, you know, he said, God, he said, people were leaving crying. What's happening in there? And I was like, don't worry. It was all fine.
00:19:01
Speaker
But it's a very emotional. And as somebody who, you know, I'm living in this country now, I've had to go through the visa process. and There's a lot of things you got to do and sometimes... Because it's like you're in life, it's put out there for the world. Yeah. And it was like, I felt for her and for the others who were standing in front of this panel and it was like, these people are deciding your life. I mean, that's how I felt, yeah like trying to get my visa in America. was like, oh my God.
00:19:23
Speaker
and So very, how do you deal with that? Like, do you... don't know. I try to keep it separate, but, you know, I'm a person in the emotional field for the license. I just try to try to make sure I stick to the rules and the regulations.
00:19:36
Speaker
And if there's any wavery green space, you know, we hope for the best and put it in the handboard. Yeah. So whatever the outcome is, the goal is to push everyone forward in a positive direction. Yeah. Make sure they get licensed. Make sure everyone's following the rules. And that's what I wish for everyone. Yeah. Because at the end of the day...
00:19:53
Speaker
And while it's not life and death, it is a little bit, you know? Yes. That's your passion. and That's what you want to see. Don't give up on it. No. And I mean, you know, there were things brought up like, hang on, step into the camera. Okay. And there were a little things like, and like reckless driving and stuff. And I caught myself, oh my God, I would never have thought of, you know, somebody could be driving in a hearse. And I'm not saying the reckless driving. Yes.
00:20:13
Speaker
But I'm just saying like. It can affect your professional life. That what you do in your personal. Yes. It's important. You know Yes. I mean, sometimes you might think, oh, I'll just go to this happy hour. I mean, and I've seen the things online where somebody pops into a Burger King or something like a drive-thru with, ah you know, and like, this is what the public sort of see. And yeah and what I always hate and not with my podcast is funeral directors can often be pitched as the bad guys.
00:20:39
Speaker
yeah And there are so many good guys. That one bad case, like somebody stopping in a Burger King. Yeah, that's not the history of everyone in the total. It's not the norm. It's not the norm. that's why I try and sort of, let's talk about these negative things. But like, God, we can address them. Exactly. And know that 95% of funeral directors would not go to a happy hour when they've got a deceased in the back.
00:21:01
Speaker
Correct. Lord, we hope that never happened. Yeah, ah but it's so interesting. It was really interesting this morning, I have to say. Glad that IFDS convention was able to house us. Yeah. there were Everyone has been pleasant. It's been a...
00:21:15
Speaker
impeccable place to visit. Really nice. People are nice. Yes. every the been Very Yes. It's been a great place, but it was good for everyone to see what the board does live in action. Yeah. Yes.
00:21:25
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for the work you do. Thank you. Thank you, Crystal. You're fabulous. And
Creating a Family Atmosphere at Conferences
00:21:30
Speaker
thank you. a good one. I'm here with the executive director. Associate executive director. ah Executive director.
00:21:36
Speaker
Heather. Heather, thank you for A, having me and the Glamour for inviting us in. am You do a lot of work. This is a big deal. This is kind of culmination of a lot for you.
00:21:48
Speaker
The whole year. The whole year. It has been, as so far as I'm concerned, from what I've seen, it's been very family orientated. Very, there's not like so much salesy going on on the floor, which I love.
00:21:58
Speaker
Tell us a bit about how long you've been with them, how it started, how it's going. Well, I will say that I'm super proud of the strides that we've made in the five-year tenure that I've been here.
00:22:10
Speaker
I came into this role right right when we were coming out of the pandemic. So I had to service a lot of hotel contracts that I had no part in selecting the hotels. And so for the first couple of years of my tenure, I kind of struggled along with these enormous conference hotels that made us feel kind of spread out and cold. And, you know, and here when I when I stumbled upon Hammock Beach, when I started to ti and make my own decisions yeah and find a place that made us feel like we were coming to a place where we could be together with our families.
00:22:45
Speaker
These hotels that we were going to before were so corporate and and stale and didn't have activities for children. They didn't have on-site restaurants. They didn't have all the family-oriented activities that I know our people deserve.
00:22:59
Speaker
They work tirelessly 365 days year. They never get a family vacation. And having kids myself, I know how important it is to have that downtime. So I set out to create a family vacation conference.
00:23:14
Speaker
to find a place that had not only one-bedroom accommodations, but two, three, and four, to make it more affordable for families if they wanted to split the room with another member or friends or bring their grandparents so the children can have supervision while they're conferencing. you know So I tried to be very mindful of how we can grow our conference but create an environment that well people will want to come back to and that people will...
00:23:42
Speaker
Find the ability to relax. Yeah. And love fun. You know, i I chose Hammock Beach as also an independently owned and operated property. So I was immediately drawn to their values. Yeah. Which matches our own.
00:23:55
Speaker
And um it's been a joy to now this is our third year here, to see how many children ah and dark song humming mort I just asked a vendor over there. I said, is this a record number of children running around the Tracer? He goes, oh, yes. We have not seen youngins running around here in their bathing suits and yeah and everything. So that speaks to me that what I'm doing is working.
00:24:20
Speaker
And the feedback I'm getting is we're coming back next year, right? More of an anticipatory instead of like, oh, where are we going next year? It's more like we're coming back, right? oh wow. And so that's...
00:24:31
Speaker
makes me feel enormously successful yeah and and the children are the future exactly all having them running around a funeral trade show might sound weird and creepy to some of you I'm sure but like it's yeah I mean my my children for instance we I did not come from a funeral background yeah this was completely foreign to them too but now they're this is totally normal to them that love the cause they get all kinds of sway they love it But, ah you know, that that's a great joy to me. to And to get to watch the kids grow up as they come back year after year. And then my kids are playing with the other kids. I recognize each other and they excited to see each other. Yes.
00:25:11
Speaker
I've reached that goal. Yeah. And so to watch the trade show continue to grow. I sell out. Then I oversell. Have a wait list. have a cancellation list. So.
00:25:23
Speaker
It's hard to deny that something's working and um the word of mouth, maybe. I don't really know, but um we're really pleased. Yeah, no, I mean, it definitely, as most of you know, like I've been to a lot of the conventions and a lot of different state ones, a lot of different national ones, some with corporate input and stuff like that. And this has definitely felt like a different vibe um for sure.
00:25:46
Speaker
Nothing could have shocked me more than when a vendor told me that they go to multiple conferences where they are totally kept separate. From attendees. they don't cut They're not allowed at CE. They don't come to the meal functions. They're not included. yeah And I said, that doesn't make any sense. youre Paying to be there and to sponsor and help improve the overall conference. Yet, why would you...
00:26:09
Speaker
remove any networking possibility ability yeah i that seems odd to me yeah but um i'm just thrilled that people seem to love it yeah and we are one big happy family because yeah they continue to come back year after year and the new blood that comes in wants to come back yeah and we're back here next year yep so if you're interested if you're a funeral hall i guess you have to be in the state of florida You're going into the... Oh, okay. Okay. maybe this this we got some news there. i don't know.
00:26:39
Speaker
Fresh off the press. and If you're interested in coming, if you're a vendor, for sure, um you know, hopefully we will be here next year and stuff. It is, I have to say, it is a great spot. And Heather is your gal. And you can reach me, reach her.
00:26:55
Speaker
We'll leave all the information. But yeah, it's it's it's wonderful. It really is great to see it. I'm so happy you're here. Oh, thank you for having me. I feel like I found home. We're good. Yeah, we're girls now. We got this.
00:27:05
Speaker
but No, we did love a martini last year. That's good too. Yep. Looking forward
Pathologist's Career Stories
00:27:09
Speaker
to the next one. Hello, Daniel. Welcome. So you are at the autopsy doctor. Yes. Very cool name. Almost as cool as the glam reaper.
00:27:17
Speaker
Maybe not as cool, but almost as cool. So you, I've been told I have to speak to you, that you're the most fascinating man in the room. Tell me why. Well, I'd been a forensic pathologist for about 35 years, worked for the government for most of my career, retired from daily work in that capacity about three years ago.
00:27:39
Speaker
I have a laboratory built in Tampa about 10 years ago where I get casework sent for me from essentially everywhere. ah The entire United States, so sometimes globally, ah flown to Tampa.
00:27:52
Speaker
And as far as I know, we're we're the only place like it in the United States. That's amazing. Well, now that I'm in Florida and I do have relatives in Tampa, I might come and visit us if I can. Maybe you can. Yeah.
00:28:05
Speaker
Because I am definitely very interested in this. One of my good friends at home in Ireland is an incredible embalmer, but he's sort of, we talk a little bit about the whole forensic side of things. And it's it's something that's always fascinated me.
00:28:19
Speaker
It's, I wouldn't be able for it, but it's something that absolutely fascinates me. And Growing up, like, I always watch all the true crime dramas and everything like that. And you... You can literally make or break a case. You can literally make or break, like... Get people guilty to be innocent, innocent guilty. Yeah, it goes both ways. Yeah. It's just... The truth is the truth. So... Yeah.
00:28:41
Speaker
I mean, I've had cases where... i Cases initially viewed as something benign, like an accident, and we do a second autopsy, and we found homicides. And we've had the opposite direction, where the family thinks something bad happened.
00:28:57
Speaker
The original pathologist thought something bad happened, namely someone hurt someone, and it turned out it was actually natural disease that had nothing. So we we saved those for being you know second victims, basically.
00:29:10
Speaker
Wow. I mean, it it must be so rewarding, you know. to Oh, yeah. i know See, I started in clinical medicine. When I first started my career, I was in anesthesia. Right. And I shifted gears. And part of the reason was in clinical medicine, I kind of thought anesthesia is not necessarily part of the best thing.
00:29:29
Speaker
category of this but point is i like reading the end of the book yeah got it i like that things have happened and then i get to figure it out i don't have to experience that process so much as i give some closure to the families i you know it's some of the best uh conversations i've ever had with these families when i'm done with the case and i know what happened yeah uh it's uh it' very It's a very unique um area. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:59
Speaker
And it it must feel rewarding when you do... I guess, I don't know if you deliver the news to somebody or like, I don't know how it works, but, um you know, when somebody who has maybe been on death row, I'm just going to use as a very dramatic example, but somebody who has been convicted and suddenly you have this, without doubt, truth, like be from the autopsy that they were innocent and that they had nothing to do with it. That must be an incredible... Well, the reality, the reality is in, well you know, in forensic mythology, when I would handle case, let's say homicide, for example. Yeah.
00:30:33
Speaker
Rarely does it ever happen that the pathologist identifies the perpetrator. Yeah. That's usually not. We see that sort of thing on TV.
00:30:45
Speaker
Yeah. Suggest somehow that the pathologist. No, no, no. That's not what happens. So if i if I say, for example, this person sustained these gunshot wounds or these stab wounds or was strangled.
00:30:57
Speaker
That's what happened to the person. Yeah. That's why it's a homicide. You don't know. but The details about how and why it's that person, it's usually not in my camp. So that said, there's times where individuals who are on death row or in prison might want someone to take a second look at that original investigation and or autopsy and say, hey, ah they said this is this. Does this make sense? And I do well i do a bit of that.
00:31:25
Speaker
i try to And i'm trying to be more active in things, for example, with the Innocence Project, kind of give some time to help some of these things because there's really not a lot of help out there. ah of help out there To honest There is not. No. no yes and Especially at the moment, there does seem to be more of an accusatory sort of as opposed to let's help each other and help the community and stuff. And yeah, from what I hear, that Innocence Project is a wonderful, I don't know it personally, but I've heard that it has gotten a lot of people out of jail and i out of prison. and Well, you know, you know the worst the worst thing you can do in forensic pathology is make a mistake where you create a second victor.
00:32:04
Speaker
Right. So if you call something a homicide and it's not, then and then you you potentially create a second victim. Yeah. So, yeah you know, your certainty level on something like that is just reason so to the degree that everything reasonable has been excluded.
00:32:19
Speaker
you You've done due diligence and you've clarified that there is nothing else out there that's going to have been more you know relevant than those findings you had that suggested, you know, homicide. Yeah, yeah.
00:32:32
Speaker
And now I will say a little birdie spoke to me and said that I needed to ask you specifically about, to speak about, there was a famous case. Uh-huh. The Murdoch.
00:32:43
Speaker
Rearger. That you did. So that was on Netflix, I believe? Yeah. Okay. Can you talk a little bit about that? or Well... i Well, I know the outcome. I know it's already been put out there.
00:32:55
Speaker
So what happened was Stephen Smith was the young man who was in. He was found on a highway. And years later, if all of this was going on with the Murdoch situation,
00:33:08
Speaker
They wanted another look at that case. And so in my career, traffic accident investigations, trauma investigations like that, ah that's kind of my area.
00:33:20
Speaker
Yeah. And it's some it's an area that many forensic pathologists, frankly, don't spend a lot of time in nor are that interested in it because I'm very much focused on like actual mechanisms of what happened, not so much as many forensic pathologists will say, well, they died from multiple injuries.
00:33:37
Speaker
Yeah. But that was a very interesting case. I i didn't go, you know, when it was all said and done, they drove down to my lab, the South ah Carolina Law Enforcement Division brought him to my lab. We did the case.
00:33:49
Speaker
I was able to then give them my opinion. Interestingly enough, it was it was communicated not through me. It was communicated through another pathologist locally that was working with a law firm. Oh.
00:34:01
Speaker
Which sort of portrays it as if they did the autopsy. degree Yeah, I did. But, uh, I really probably shouldn't talk about it too much because in my capacity now, when a family hires me to look at a case, this is literally yeah it's ah it's a contract with that family and me that unless they say to me, hey, y'all we want you to talk about it.
00:34:25
Speaker
It's out there. Yeah. um I understand. I can only say that it's not that specific situation with him was not a as nefarious as it may have been portrayed. Yeah.
00:34:37
Speaker
But nonetheless, yeah, in all fairness to the family and all of all that, i really have. But that said,
The Importance of Thorough Autopsies
00:34:44
Speaker
I've got a whole host of cases that I've got families that want me to talk about cases.
00:34:50
Speaker
So, and there's a lot of those. Yeah. but Be there that because they're homicides that were never followed up on or other side of the coin. The enemy thought it was a homicide. Someone's paying the price. And guess what?
00:35:06
Speaker
It's not. Stuff like that. So there's all kinds of variety in what we do, but. And so a very fulfilling. Yeah. Can you tell us am just sort of, and because I'm sure, and I know you talked about potentially doing your own podcast, and I actually would love to, maybe you can dip your toes in and we'll do an episode together where we do get people to call in. Maybe we'll do something like that.
00:35:31
Speaker
Because there's another funeral director and who she does lives on social. maybe we'll, we'll work that. We'll chat about that again. But to finish us up, Is there, I don't know, a case that sticks out the most for you, either where it was the most outrageous or you felt the most impact? Or, yeah, just give us a a little taster.
00:35:51
Speaker
All right. Now, here's the most... Well, the most outrageous one, I would say, is a young i mean a young law man died in prison, right?
00:36:01
Speaker
He'd been in there for decades. He went in when he was an older teenager for, I believe it was for a murder. But nonetheless, he was in prison. One day he calls his family and he says um that he thinks that they're trying to poison him, the food, the water, and a lot of things like that. And he makes a statement to them that when and if he dies, he wants a second autopsy.
00:36:25
Speaker
That was the verbiage, second autopsy, which was very odd. But nonetheless, I talked to the family and I said, well, here's the thing, because he had already died. I said... an ME is going to be handling this case. I would have full comfort with them. They're board certified.
00:36:39
Speaker
I'm sure this will all work out. I don't really just think it's a good idea to incur the cost of the second autopsy. So i they said, well, talk to the original pathologist. And so I did. She says, please do this autopsy because the family's really not They think that somehow we work with the police. They do not work with the police. But nonetheless, I said, fine, I'll do this case. So the family had me do the autopsy.
00:37:01
Speaker
Well, this gentleman was extremely thin, tall, extremely thin. And as it was, ah when I did the autopsy, I found, which unfortunately i find quite a lot, which is many medical examiners essentially do not look at the bowels.
00:37:16
Speaker
So they did not open the bowels. And in a skinny guy like this, you'd kind of want to know what his intestines look like because maybe that's why he's skinny. Well, we opened his bowels and in his colon, there were 13 tiny little chiclet-sized wrapped, saran wrapped, tied with strings, probably from his clothing, wrapped around little notes.
00:37:39
Speaker
And those little notes were written to me. Oh! In his bowels. He had eaten them. And in those notes... He wrote, they're poisoning the water. they're putting He was mentally ill.
00:37:52
Speaker
And he wrote these notes. And he believed all this, of course, because he' he's delusional. Yes, it's real. But as it was, that was his cause of death. Because, yes, he did die from dehydration and starvation. And why did he die from this? Well, it wasn't because they were doing any of these things.
00:38:10
Speaker
he he The same thing they told the family. No. So... A week later, I'm literally at a national meeting and I presented this case. And I, you know, I told many my colleagues, I'm like, this is why even the most mundane, like you think a certain organ system is not going to be as relevant.
00:38:31
Speaker
Look, you're there. Just look. Yes. And that case is obviously likely never to happen again to anyone. But for us... His cause of death is due to this.
00:38:41
Speaker
It's in fact a natural death in that ultimately was due to his underlying mental illness with delusions. But that was probably the craziest case I've ever had. I mean, that's crazy. When you open that first nose, you must have been like, what? And they were very well written, very neatly written. Yeah.
00:38:57
Speaker
Um... But what he obviously knew, he'd obviously just well done his research because he obviously knew you were going to open the bells. That's just it. Yeah. He he knew the flavor. And for a second, that's obviously. So somehow, you exact yeah how he would know that, yeah I do not know, but ah why it's a common factor. In fact, i will tell you, probably every second autopsy I've ever done,
00:39:17
Speaker
I don't know that I've ever encountered a case where they actually did hope in the bottles prior to me. Yeah. i Sometimes I find that on second exams, and this is where some of these homicides have panned out,
00:39:30
Speaker
what they're originally called, say, accidental drowning, for example, is that neck dissection is not always happy. So sometimes they don't look closely and they miss stannis sometimes.
00:39:41
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, I used to say that, you know, if somebody is handled by a medical examiner or coroner, ah that it's highly unlikely a second autopsy is going to show anything. But I have a different take on that now. Yeah. ah i And I also think it when you do an autopsy secondarily and you see good work, it's nice to call them and say, hey, FYI, that was a really nice job. I love that. And I think that's... And I do that. I get permission from the family. I love that because but as a professional... all get feedback. Yeah. Because as a professional, you're kind of...
00:40:14
Speaker
You've got somebody and who's been hired to second check your work. Yeah. That's an uncomfortable feeling as it is. And it's so true. We don't. And it's not adversarial by any means. It's not at all. it's all Even when these things come up where you find other things, I have so many cases where I literally, you know, again, family permission.
00:40:32
Speaker
I have a conversation. We talk about it. We share a data. Just. That's what professionals do. Thank you so much for joining us, Daniel. This was amazing. You're awesome. And I think we definitely need to get him on maybe a live or a regular podcast episode. But this was so but interesting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. right. Appreciate it.
Conclusion of the Convention Highlights
00:40:49
Speaker
So therein ends day two, technically, of the funeral. Oh, my God, I'm so tired. The Florida Funeral Directors Association, the Independent Florida Funeral Directors Association.
00:41:02
Speaker
and This was great. um I hope you enjoyed it just as much as I did. And we'll talk to you soon.