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Doubling Down on Being Small with Brian Davis
359 Plays7 months ago
We are joined by yet another DIY disciple. We revisit the old hardcore/punk/subculture to clothing pipeline and collect, yet another, unbiased perspective for our undeniably scientific “research” (which only serves to deepen our already unflappable opinions). We chat about what’s in a name and the etymology of Wooden Sleepers, the notion of home, how workwear and Ivy feed off of each other, the case against being cutthroat, church basement thrift stores, and how Brian’s reputation precedes him, and, of course, the Adidas Samba.
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Transcript
Introduction and Recent Events
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another episode of Apocalypse Studs. This week, last week,
00:00:20
Speaker
This school has been a little hectic. There was a gun battle in front of my elementary school. So that was not ideal.
00:00:36
Speaker
The kids are resilient and like keep doing amazingly well. So in my life, things are happy. I got a car, which is exciting. Then now it's like now I can go to see my family, which is nice. Because before I was like not driving on a highway, you know? Right, right. Oh, fuck. So all is good in this.
00:01:06
Speaker
Yeah, this will be dated at some point, but the fucking bridge collapse. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That shit was nuts. Yeah. And it's like, I don't know, people have been said to me. Go ahead. Well, people have even said to me, like, why are you trying to make this a political thing?
00:01:36
Speaker
And it's like I'm not making it a political thing. It just like is the right. It is a legal issue. It is a political issue. At some point, I'm sure we find out that these basically people were overworked.
00:01:55
Speaker
whatever the fuck is going on. I mean, it's like, it's not, I'm not suggesting that somebody like ordered the people to crash the ship. Right, right, yeah. It just is a fuck up. It's a fuck up and we know why fuck ups happen. Yeah, I will say to our friends' credit, I had multiple people ask me if you were okay that day. Yeah. So yeah, people,
City Connections and Traffic Issues
00:02:26
Speaker
People, yeah, friends of the show love us. People really reached out about, yeah, and it's like, I don't know, it's like the place that I talk about every episode, it's like the places that I live. Yeah, same, same. Yeah, your Baltimore is my Atlanta. We both love our fucking, we put on for our cities. Shout out. I don't know that people understand, like,
00:02:55
Speaker
this was a portion of the Beltway. So like the Beltway around Baltimore is no longer circular, which is just like unimaginable really. Right. Yeah. When I saw it, I thought that it was going to be something like the Atlanta Bridge collapse that happened a handful of years ago where like,
00:03:24
Speaker
this little hundred yard section or whatever of a bridge fell. And so traffic was fucked for the four months it took them to repair. And then I watched a video and was like, that looks like a fucking demolition. That's just crazy. Yeah, it was like, yeah, I don't know. I must've driven over that bridge like hundreds of times.
00:03:51
Speaker
Right. Right. Yeah. Shout out the Baltimore bridge. Hopefully the situation gets fixed as quickly as possible. Yeah. The Francis Guy key. Yeah. Fuck that asshole. Also rest in peace to the undocumented workers that have most likely died. I think two might've been rescued, but
00:04:17
Speaker
Sorry, not to get somber. It's always the workers. It's always the fucking workers, man. Always the workers. Basically the exact opposite of that scenario. My View Band is releasing our first recording. Today is Thursday, March 28th.
00:04:40
Speaker
theoretically should be up by tomorrow for Bandcamp Friday. I sit kind of the masters. And yeah, he talks it
Band Announcement and Upcoming Guests
00:04:52
Speaker
up. I don't talk about myself and talk myself up a lot. But the band is called it's just really good stuff. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I'm calling it a hardcore band because we're hardcore kids making music. But
00:05:07
Speaker
If you like alt-rock and heavy music and anything in that adjacent world, check it out. It's called Extinction Age. It's extinctionage.bandcamp.com. And like I said, hopefully it will be up tomorrow.
00:05:28
Speaker
uh, Friday, March 29th. We, it's the only, the first project I've ever done that's a hundred percent DLY. We recorded it. We mixed it. We mastered it. Uh, we did the artwork ourselves. Um, I'm really, really fucking proud of it.
00:05:46
Speaker
And it's a DIY thing, so it's like the show, so you support it. Yeah, yeah. Do it yourself or die. Anyway, we had a great conversation with Brian Davis of Wooden Sleepers fame. He and I talked hardcore because of course we did. And yeah, we talked about DIY culture.
00:06:11
Speaker
and coming out of that and getting into clothes and church thrift store basements. It was a rousing conversation. I would say arguably one of our best and also
00:06:30
Speaker
You know I have respected Brian and known him for a while now, and he does it fucking right his mindset is correct He's not trying to be cool or anything. He's just trying to do what he wants to do and what he loves so Shout out Brian. I think y'all are going to enjoy this episode Just a really really
00:06:57
Speaker
Charming doesn't even really begin to describe it. He's just as nice, he's just as earnest, he's just as our kind of person. So I think you guys are really going to love it. I think he said in the episode that he has a reputation of being a nice guy and that could not be farther from the truth. Dude is a real one.
00:07:17
Speaker
And when sometimes people say nice and they mean like boring, sometimes people say nice and they mean like we'll put you to sleep when in sleepers. I mean, well, that's not what's going to happen in this episode. Our whole thing with this show is weirdos, finding weirdos and nerds, finding nerds. And yeah, this this encapsulates that to a T so.
00:07:45
Speaker
Anyway, hope you enjoyed the episode.
Brian Davis Joins the Conversation
00:07:48
Speaker
Please follow, rate, review, whatever the fuck on your platform of choice, Spotify, Apple, et cetera, et cetera. Thank you for listening. Tell your family about us on Easter. Yeah, tell your family about us on Easter. Or whatever. Tell the nerds in your life that there are other nerds out there talking about nerdy shit.
00:08:12
Speaker
Someone is carrying the banner. Someone is definitely carrying the banner. Anyway, I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues. And I'm Connor Nunez at Real Connor Nunez. Thank you for listening and enjoy the episode. Hello and good afternoon. We have a heck of a show for you today.
00:08:39
Speaker
Now, we know our listeners are in the top 001% of many categories. They're smart, they know people's names, they have read a book, et cetera. So, we know you wouldn't be in sleepers on our next guest. Hey, Matt, would you get my hugs for me? Well, we'll have to experiment with that joke in a little bit. Yeah, we definitely will.
00:09:11
Speaker
Here's a man who needs no introduction. We've written one anyway. From the select press section on wooden-sleepers.com, The New York Times calls the store, quote, an oasis of cool. Gentleman's Quarterly Magazine calls it New York's best new vintage store. Esquire calls him a grail whisperer.
00:09:34
Speaker
Complex Magazine claims he has, quote, a discerning eye and taste level. Brian Davis, the valiant viceroy of Vintage, welcome to the show. Thank you for enduring that again. Thank you for having me, man. I'm thrilled. You know, I'm a fan of you guys, so this is very exciting for me, so I can't wait to get into it with you.
00:09:57
Speaker
I gotta say that we do these ridiculous intros for basically every guest. And usually it's Connor's wit and comedic value that draws it in. And I'm usually like, all right, yeah, it's cool or whatever. When he pitched this type of intro, I laughed my fucking ass off.
00:10:21
Speaker
because the other ones are not funny at all. They are, but this was immediately like, oh, this is going to be fucking hilarious. We haven't even, Matt botched the fucking joke. We're going to do the joke again. We're not going to talk about the joke because then the joke will be ruined, but the joke will happen again in this very episode. In my defense, we did not rehearse the joke.
00:10:45
Speaker
So no, and I forgot about it until I read it just now. So I'm happy. I left myself a present as always. Brian, how are you today on this Friday? I'm good. And yeah, I am good. I'm happy to be here. And I'm looking forward to forgetting about the joke and then being blindsided with it. Awesome. Awesome.
00:11:08
Speaker
Um, all right. So yeah, let's, let's get into shit. Um, Brian, you, you've been around a while. Um, I wouldn't sleep or started in what, 2010. That's right. 2010. Yes. We do our research. We do our research. Uh, so the name is very, like, uh, very intriguing to me. So what's the origin story with that?
00:11:34
Speaker
So, you know, wooden sleepers is another term for railroad ties. Okay. Yeah. So they're called, they're called wooden sleepers or railway sleepers. We always called them railroad ties. Like when I was a kid, we used to steal them from local construction sites and then wax them up and skate on them.
00:11:55
Speaker
like board slides and shit so but i never heard that term before and it was actually my wife allison who were chronic neighbors of things like we both keep notes on our phone with just. Random pairings of words or things that we think have a nice ring to them.
00:12:14
Speaker
probably just a spillover from being in bands for many years were always like naming things. Oh, that could be a cool name for something or whatever. So she actually had wooden sleepers.
00:12:26
Speaker
And when I was starting up the business, she graciously gifted that to me. And I thought it had a nice ring to it. And it kind of fit with the Americana vibe that we were doing. And yeah, just stuck. I liked it. I thought it looked cool. I thought it sounded cool. And it was not going to pigeonhole me into one specific thing, like I called it, you know, Brooklyn Vintage Company.
00:12:55
Speaker
Oh, yes. Probably wouldn't have aged as well. So anyway, yeah, that's the origin story. That's awesome. And a lot of like, just from, you know, kind of knowing you over the years and seeing the progression of wooden sleepers, like, you're super influenced by where you grew up, correct?
00:13:15
Speaker
Totally, yeah. I think the whole brand, the whole point of view is informed by my growing up on the North Fork of Long Island, which is a pretty rural, rugged, nautical type of area that
00:13:33
Speaker
you know, to be honest, when I was a kid, I didn't appreciate it all. A lot of people assume I grew up like huckberry fin or something, you know, huckleberry fit, like fishing and like all this shit. I never did any of that stuff. I was like a skateboarding punk, like listening to, you know, Cypress Hill and Nine Inch Nails. And I couldn't wait to get out of like what I perceived as this like oppressive hick
00:13:58
Speaker
town. Right. And that's exactly what I did. Like the second I turned 18, I moved into New York City and never looked back. And it wasn't till many, many years later and probably around the time I started Wooden Sleepers that I started to sort of like reconcile that like love hate relationship with my hometown and, and really through Wooden Sleepers and like the process of building that brand and sort of figuring out the point of view. Um,
00:14:27
Speaker
was kind of learning how to appreciate.
Influences and Background
00:14:30
Speaker
the things from that area, or at least create an image of it in my head that was better than maybe the reality was. Totally, totally. I am also from a very rural Georgia town, and I went through the same exact shit. The fact that I spend a lot of my personal time with my business in the middle of fucking nowhere really made me reassess my relationship with my hometown.
00:15:01
Speaker
small towns in general, and like at 40, it's a lot different than it was at 20. 100%. Yeah, I mean, and now I can go back there and decompress and kind of appreciate the beauty of it, the stillness, the quiet, like, yeah, everything closes at nine o'clock. It's kind of like a beach town, honestly, like there's not much going on in the winter. And
00:15:28
Speaker
That's actually a time I enjoy going out there and just like walking around the beach in the winter and hanging out super quiet. Like all the businesses are shut down. People who might have summer homes are not there. It's just like this kind of eerie, empty place that I really enjoy that time.
00:15:46
Speaker
course I like going out in the summer too but it's a totally different vibe you know it's the kind of place that's like during the winter months it's like the year-round people the people that are more like you know your middle class like normal working people and then in the summer you've got this like influx of kind of like affluent people with summer houses and boats and da da da so like the whole dynamic
00:16:11
Speaker
shifts a lot from like the fall winter months to the kind of spring summer months and you know I think like a lot of what I explore with wooden sleepers is like
00:16:23
Speaker
rooted in that dichotomy or that like juxtaposition of like, that sort of like working class, like work where you know, hunting, fishing, like clamors, like that whole kind of energy. And then you've got like the seersucker, Madras, polos, you know, Cordovan loafers. And I always sort of liked how those two worlds collide and and mash up and how like, the kind of rugged
00:16:51
Speaker
stuff can be like abrasive to the more like, quote unquote, Ivy, and then the Ivy stuff can kind of soften some of that rugged stuff. And I think that's, that's like what I've always been kind of exploring with this and also in my kind of personal style, not to jump the gun, but I just felt like that's a lot of that is connected back to the brand and to me personally. So
00:17:16
Speaker
Hell yeah, that's a great fucking answer if I'm being honest. Matt often is dishonest to everyone. Well, I think that the dichotomy that you talk about is like a lot of what makes me like the place where I live a lot. I think Baltimore is like, it's just as like,
00:17:40
Speaker
crumbling Victorian mansions and that of course they're not it's not like exactly like that um up there but i think that that vibe as they say is really is really like strong
00:17:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you know, and even like we don't have to like get to in the weeds on this stuff, but like even the different because people are like, oh, you grew up on the east end of Long Island, like the Hamptons. And I'm like, no. So there's like two forks, right? There's a north fork and a south fork. And the north fork is like really rural. That's where I grew up. So it's like farms as far as the eye can see.
00:18:19
Speaker
in between little towns that are microscopic. I just didn't even know that this, I didn't even know that that's what it was like. Like I've never been, I've been to the like, uh, to the Hamptons ish area, like that part of Long Island. I've never been to the North Fork, but like you really don't think about there being farms. It's so close to the, you know, the most populous city in the, or the busiest city I guess in the world.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, and so like the Hamptons is, you know, those are some of the most affluent neighborhoods in the country, right? South Hampton, East Hampton. You know, the interesting thing about growing up out there was
00:19:01
Speaker
There's no it's like a cultural vacuum, you know, so if you grew up and you're interested in like alternative culture, music, skateboarding, art, whatever, like you really had to seek out other like minded people. And the cool thing about that era was you could actually take a bus that ran from
00:19:20
Speaker
the North Fork where I grew up for two bucks or whatever it was, all the way west through Riverhead and then back out east into the Hamptons. You would find these pockets of weirdos and skaters and people into hardcore punk or whatever. I would spend a lot of time in South Hampton and East Hampton
00:19:41
Speaker
and Montauk when I was in high school, but it was mostly with people that would be considered like townies, you know, just people who lived there all year round and were just like normal people. Not like your Martha Stewart estates and Jerry Seinfeld and all that, because that's there too. But I think the Hamptons, it's even more
00:20:05
Speaker
of a dichotomy than the, than the North Fork. Cause the North Fork, you know, it had that kind of influx of affluence, but the South Fork is like really, really extreme. Yeah. Yeah. Like all of you guys had a similar experience as varying as it would be from you being very rural and then being like around some of the wealthiest people in the world for four months out of the year. Totally. And like, you just sought each other out. You sought out the weirdos that like understood the plight.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah, and it's funny, like a friend, I keep in touch with a couple people to this day from that time in my life and got this photo recently of like this posse at this makeshift skate park.
00:20:48
Speaker
Back when I was coming up skateboarding, it wasn't really as accepted as it is today. I mean, now it's like an Olympic sport. It used to be counter-cultural. Totally. And I think back then, it was a thing where if you wanted a skate park, you found some abandoned lot and you started building, basically.
00:21:10
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, there were no grants, there were no like, it just sort of happened in a very DIY. Anyway, so I got this great photo of like this whole posse of people from that era. And of course, like I'm zeroing in on the style and like what are people wearing and all that stuff. So it's funny, I don't have a lot of
00:21:29
Speaker
photos and things from that era, because, you know, obviously it was like pre iPhone and all that. So anything that would have existed would have been the physical. But yeah, anyway, it's fun. And so anyway, just to get back to your original question and point, I think a lot of what I'm doing now is is informed by that time in my life in one in one way or other. Totally.
00:21:52
Speaker
Yeah, this is going to be the most left field question I maybe ever asked, but do you remember the, like, those late nineties, like.
00:22:02
Speaker
Like the X Games are ascended at this point, right? Like I was talking to someone the other day and I definitely have like original three or four years of X Games like recorded off the TV on the VHS somewhere. I got a file. Hell yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Same. Same. Do you remember those fucking Nike commercials that like
00:22:23
Speaker
there was a golf one and a tennis one and maybe one more but like it was it was basically like the gist of it was what if we treated all athletes the way that we treat skateboarders
00:22:37
Speaker
Oh, whoa, no, I don't remember that. That's very interesting. Yeah, maybe we'll maybe I'll find one on YouTube and post on the story. But essentially, like, like the cops would raid a tennis court or a golf course and treat the people playing. Yeah, people playing like they were criminals, you know, because skateboarders are always like, oh, you're grinding on this, like, fucking concrete thing, whatever.
00:23:02
Speaker
them. Give it up to Nike. They always have that. The Nike SB, 1998 Nike SB campaign. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 98. They treated all athletes like skateboarders. Yeah. And they have them on YouTube, actually. They have all of the ads on YouTube. So yeah, we'll post those too, along with a posse pic. We definitely will. Yeah. Please send us the posse pic. For sure. Yeah. I got to dig it up. Nice.
00:23:31
Speaker
So you're like, I don't know how to phrase this question. I think I'll just go with it. Like, you are well-respected. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but you are widely and well-respected. You're a well-regarded person and you have a well-regarded operation. So I'm wondering, how do you do that, right? Like, isn't business supposed to be cut throat?
00:23:59
Speaker
Uh, I suppose, but, um, that's just not who I am, you know, and I've tried to conduct business in a very authentic and genuine way and a way that's true to myself. And I think part of that comes from wooden sleepers started from a place of genuine interest and passion and
00:24:27
Speaker
love for this stuff. This was never something that was even supposed to be a business. I never even thought of it as a business. It was just something I loved to do and was into from a really young age. I always loved vintage clothing from the time I was in middle school. I was obsessed with Nirvana and alternative music and
00:24:56
Speaker
of course, recording and hip hop. And I would see the clothes that people were wearing. And I would try to emulate that style. And the easiest way to do that was either to raid my grandfather's closet, or to go to the local church basement thrift store and buy the stuff. Which at the time, you know, you could get cool 5050 poly cotton blend t shirts for 50 cents, you could get old like Wrangler jeans, you could get
00:25:26
Speaker
trucker jackets, whatever, everything was so cheap, $1 here, $2 there, $5 there. The access to the stuff was there, it was available, it was attainable.
00:25:44
Speaker
I think by the time I was like 18 or so, I had this thought of like, man, it would be cool to open a vintage clothing store. But what the hell did I know about opening a vintage clothing store? I was 18. I had no money. I had no resources. I had no support system. I had no knowledge. I had nothing.
00:26:01
Speaker
and the years leading up to that i didn't even know there was such a thing as a vintage business i thought. This was just like cool clothes that i could wear to express myself it wasn't until i started taking the train into the city and seeing vintage leave eyes and things that were being sold for.
00:26:20
Speaker
three figures, $500, $600, $800, and I was like, oh my God, this is incredible. How? My mind was totally blown. Fast forward many years, I feel like
00:26:36
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like I'm rambling here, but like in terms of business being cutthroat, I just think it's such bullshit and people front so much in this game. And it's like, just be yourself. You know, like everybody who's small is trying to appear bigger than they are.
00:26:57
Speaker
And everybody who's big is trying to appear smaller than they are. And it just always comes across so disingenuous. And I think at some point, like with all this like social media business, I was like, you know what? I'm just going to be myself. I'm just going to be myself and whatever I put out there.
00:27:15
Speaker
Like, I'm just going to double down on being small. Like, and I just let people into that world. And that's like the good, the bad and the ugly. I think it's really easy to have like an optimistic, everything is great kind of output in social media. But, you know, I documented closing my store, you know, it's just what's going on. Like, and I just felt like, let me let people in and that's only gonna
00:27:45
Speaker
I don't know if I had like a motive with that per se, but it was more just about, let me show people what's going on. People might be interested in what it's like to essentially like run a mom and pop, run a small business. Like here are the challenges. Here are like the wins. And I just felt like that always kind of worked well for me because when bad shit would happen.
00:28:07
Speaker
people were there for me, when good stuff would happen, people were happy for me. I hate to use the word community or community building, but I do feel like that's maybe what was happening intentionally or not. But we had built this little community and built this little hub and become this little beacon for people who were into this kind of stuff. That's just always how I operated.
00:28:37
Speaker
I mean, it should go without saying that like being nice to people goes a long way, you know, not being an asshole and not like showing up on time, doing what you say you're going to do. Like this, I'm 42 years old. Like this is common sense to me. You know what I mean? This is just like.
00:28:56
Speaker
how you should behave in a society, not just like when you're running a business, but just like be courteous, you know, treat people nicely, do what you say you're going to do beyond time. Like these are obvious things that I don't know, if that gives me a reputation of being a nice guy or whatever, then so be it that that's fine. But I do kind of pride myself on like those type of values and and those kind of principles because
00:29:21
Speaker
Ultimately, wooden sleepers has been something really personal to me and I feel like wooden sleepers is me and if the business doesn't have a good reputation, that means I don't have a good reputation and that's not something that I'm okay with at all.
00:29:37
Speaker
We can have an entire conversation about what you just said because it resonates with me personally because I'm in the same world that you are. And that's how I try to operate. My personal number one rule is don't be an asshole. It's not fucking hard to be a good person.
00:29:57
Speaker
treat others with respect and and then two it is a very personal thing for the people that like you know i respect like the the old heads that i've known over the years like it's not it's not a dollars and cents came uh in the vintage world or and it shouldn't be in the clothing world either as a as a whole but you have to have a connection with what you're doing and like
00:30:26
Speaker
The best, in my opinion, happen. Yeah, totally. I mean, a hundred percent. I think that anybody who's getting into vintage for money is an idiot. Better ways to make money. It's like open a laundry mat or something. You know what I mean? Like, there's just like so many better things that would be easier.
00:30:55
Speaker
So yeah, anyway, consider that a disclaimer. I mean, I think, I think that like that comes back around to community as much as that word is tossed around needlessly. Like I can, you know, trying to pretend like it's.
00:31:12
Speaker
People want you to feel like you're part of a community, even if they're not and they don't have your interests in mind at all. If you're a fucking real authentic person, like you documenting the closing of your retail shop.
00:31:27
Speaker
You know, like I feel like the people, the right people connect with that in a way that like the people that are just trying to be cool or whatever the fuck don't. And it's like, yo, you're showing a real side of yourself that like is vulnerable, but is something that like lots of people deal with.
00:31:48
Speaker
A hundred percent. I mean, you know, during that time there I remember New York magazine posted a cover or they published an issue where the cover was something to the effect of like saying goodbye to 500 businesses we loved that closed in New York City during COVID. And we were in that issue and it was the most gut wrenching thing to thumb through at the time. I remember just being like, fuck.
00:32:17
Speaker
And every year, I think about posting something on the anniversary of closing that shop. And I'm just like, every year, this is not something I want to celebrate. And I never post anything and I never talk about it because I'm like, that was such a fucked up, hard,
00:32:35
Speaker
painful situation and I wasn't alone by any stretch. I mean, it was totally messed up not to like drag this into a totally negative space, but I think again just like letting people into that world and then
00:32:50
Speaker
you know, coming out of it on the other side, I felt like we, us, the store, the brand, whatever it is, I felt like Wooden Sleepers was actually stronger coming out of that.
Community Support and Style Influences
00:33:05
Speaker
And I don't think it would have been that way had we not had the support of that community. And people, you know, people really, I have to give a shout out, and I don't know if I've ever said this publicly, but like during that time,
00:33:17
Speaker
people that were able to support really came through, like people ordering stuff when we were posting things on Instagram and just like helping to kind of keep things afloat. It really mattered, you know, and I think that that
00:33:33
Speaker
had a lot to do with having really strong roots in Red Hook for those five years that we were there. And then when finally I came out on the other side and opened up this showroom for appointments, some of the very first people that booked appointments, and mind you, we're like 45 minutes north of New York City now, so really nowhere near Red Hook, Brooklyn,
00:33:56
Speaker
some of the very first people to book appointments were people that were customers and clients of mine down in Red Hook, which was very heartwarming. I was like, damn, this is incredible that like, you're here right now. Oh, totally, totally. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. I want to ask you what you were looking for in middle school, when you're in the church basement.
00:34:20
Speaker
Oh, dude, are you kidding me? Like, so my two style icons were Kurt Cobain and Snoop Dogg. Yeah, so like Kurt Cobain, obviously, everybody cites him as a style influence now, but he was truly like, I wish I could find a picture of myself in sixth grade because I had the
00:34:45
Speaker
kind of shaggy mohair cardigan with the hole punched in the sleeve so you could slip your thumb through it like the ratty vintage t shirt, the old denim with the knees blown out the Chuck Taylor's the whole nine but then I really loved like
00:35:03
Speaker
Snoop Dogg, his whole thing with the super crispy crease dickies, the oversized flannel shirts, the hockey jerseys with the hoodie under. I loved that whole vibe and I think I was into both of those worlds kind of equally and there was a lot of
00:35:23
Speaker
maybe not a lot of overlap, but there was definitely some overlap like in the early to mid 90s, just like alternative culture, kind of this idea of like aggressive music or like counter cultural stuff. I feel like the hip hop and the skateboarding and the alternative music all were sort of in that like same ecosystem, like really wasn't unusual for like me and my friends to be listening to like, you know,
00:35:48
Speaker
nine inch nails one second and like Cypress Hill the next or, and a lot of times these groups would even play together or like Wu Tang Clan and like, you know, whoever, like. I'm a little surprised that this is the first time Cypress Hill has come up on this program. I owe a deep, deep debt to Cypress Hill. Yeah, me too. Saw them recently and I had never seen them before in my life and I was a huge Cypress Hill fan when I was in middle school.
00:36:17
Speaker
And, um, I don't know. I think I actually had to leave because I was getting nauseous from the smell of the, all the marijuana that was being smoked in the venue. Yeah, I believe it sounds like really gnarkey and like dorky, but it was something that was kind of like overbearing. Um, but the show was actually sick and I'll, I'll tell you the show was perfect for me. It was like a perfect Venn diagram for like Brian Davis, because
00:37:00
Speaker
sick of it
00:37:06
Speaker
I think like Rage Against the Machine, Nine Inch Nails, and Primus in a show. Like, yeah. Are you kidding me? Just insanity. Holy shit. All of Palooza's and like the first. Yeah, yeah. That stuff but like because I was too young but I remember seeing like t shirts and posters and stuff and it was so diverse and so mashed up and even like the even
00:37:29
Speaker
like the hardcore shows and stuff, when I first started getting into that world, like none of the bands really sounded like one another. It was just like... Yeah, and now everything sounds the fucking same. Or it's just clustered together in a way that is like a lot of like-minded groups on the same bill. Whereas like when I was coming up, it was not unusual for like...
00:37:52
Speaker
you to go to a show and see like mineral playing with like earth crisis. Which is what I loved about that time period. I started going to shows in Atlanta, I think in 98. And yeah, like for the next number of years, you would have an indie band playing with like the harshest punk band playing with a straight edge hardcore band.
00:38:20
Speaker
Totally. And it was cool because you could sort of see you were just exposed to so many different things at that point where it was like,
00:38:27
Speaker
really mind expanding and like, wow, okay, I'm being introduced to things that I've never, you know, heard of or seen. And, you know, we would get like a lot of boring bands. I think, you know, it's funny, like, not to like get into the weeds on this stuff, but I figured we would end up here anyway. But like, Long Island, I would go out on a limb to say, had a bigger
00:38:53
Speaker
seen the New York City for a number of years, like in the mid 90s to late 90s, early 2000s, there wasn't like a whole lot going on in New York City. And there wasn't like a central, I mean, there was Seabees, and that was popping. But like, there was no place as big as some of the venues on Long Island where, I mean, I remember going to see
00:39:18
Speaker
bands on Long Island like Vision of Disorder or Sick of It All and in this warehouse called Pwack, which by day was the people with AIDS Coalition. It was a nonprofit, but they would do shows there at the night. There'd be like 1,500 people there.
00:39:35
Speaker
There was nothing that big going on in New York City. So anyway, it was a fun time to kind of come up and get exposed to all that different kinds of stuff. And you know, it was truly like a DIY affair. You know, that whole world at that time was like kids just like.
00:39:51
Speaker
somehow getting the keys to like VFW halls, Knights of Columbus, basements, warehouses, like industrial commercial buildings and like random neighborhoods, like, right, it was fun. It was very nomadic, you know, but it was, it was a cool time to kind of get
00:40:07
Speaker
get into it, I think. And of course, everybody romanticizes their entry point. Of course. You know, I do think that that, like what you just said, ties back to like your time, you know, riding the train and finding other weirdos. Like in New York City, there's a million and one things happening literally every minute of every day. Long Island, not so much. And so sick of it all shows up and it's like, yo,
00:40:37
Speaker
Like we have nothing else going on. There's no competition. Yeah, totally. And that's why I think in the suburbs, like there's such a voracious appetite for that kind of stuff, because there's like so many kids, it's so boring. It could feel so oppressive culturally, like in high school. Like if you don't feel like you fit in, that was truly a place where
00:41:04
Speaker
I felt like this is salvation. Like this really had an impact on me. This was a place where I felt like home life sucked. School was terrible. I could not wait for Friday night or Saturday night to go and like be with these people.
00:41:22
Speaker
And so that was like a truly impactful thing that I think a lot of people, for a lot of people, it's kind of like tourism, like they just kind of go in for a little while and then they go out and whatever. That's really fine. For other people like myself and a handful of others, like it had a profound impact on our lives.
00:41:43
Speaker
To be honest, I'm still on a group chat with guys and girls I've known for 20, 25 years from that world. I met my wife in that world. I jokingly say, we have two kids.
00:41:57
Speaker
If it hadn't been for that scene and those bands and playing music together, like who knows? My life would have been very different. Dude. I think for everyone, like, you know, and we're going to get into this for sure, but like both Connor and myself come from like varying subcultures. You come from this, like lots of people that I know in the fashion world come from like,
00:42:25
Speaker
Whatever the fuck it is from skateboarding to hip-hop punk or whatever. But like yeah, why what you just described it is like so many of our experiences like, you know, just like going to a place where you're around a lot of like People that are into similar shit and it's all interconnected but like it really in my opinion
00:42:53
Speaker
you know, makes a person if they, if they have this experience. Yeah, totally. I mean, and people ask all the time, like, well, why, why is, why is that? Like, why does it seem like there are so many people in our world, like this quote unquote, like menswear world or vintage world or whatever that seem to come from like subculture. And I've never had a great answer for that. All I can say is for like me personally, I never.
00:43:23
Speaker
had a desire to be in the fashion industry. I never had a desire to go to school for this or get a job at some big company working in fashion. Like that was never something I was, I was a creative writing major. I thought I was going to like write poetry or be like an editor. You know what I mean? Like, so my entry point into this was
00:43:50
Speaker
And I think the connection to subculture is this desire for independence, right? This desire to do your own thing, to make something yourself, right?
Business Philosophy and DIY Ethos
00:44:05
Speaker
And people ask me all the time, like, oh, like,
00:44:09
Speaker
uh starting your own business was it like risky did you have to you know the money loans like venture capital da da da da i'm like no like no not none of it none of it like this was a truly diy affair this started
00:44:27
Speaker
So innocently, and by the time I took that step to actually open a bricks and mortar store, it was done with like friends, with family, with savings, and that's it. You know, no bank loans, no partners, no VC, no nothing. And.
00:44:45
Speaker
If I could say like one thing to people out there, like it's so easy to get discouraged from pursuing the things you want to pursue because the message you hear out there from people like in the quote unquote establishment is like, oh, you want to open a store in New York City? You need $2 million to do that.
00:45:04
Speaker
Right. That is such fucking bullshit. You do not need $2 million to do anything. You can do it yourself. Like just look at all the cool independent shops that have popped up in the last five years. You think they had like $2 million? If I believed that, if I believed that I needed like
00:45:23
Speaker
a rock solid business plan and like VC funding and partners and da da da. Like I would not have done shit. I would not have done anything because I would have felt like, wow, this is impossible. But I was so naive that I thought, well, I can just do this. And that that kind of like cosmic arrogance comes from punk. Yeah. That idea of like, you want to put out a record?
00:45:52
Speaker
Do it yourself. You want to go on tour, do it yourself. You want to play shows, you want to book shows, do it yourself. You want to start a scene, start a scene. You know what I mean? We waited around for like a record label to put out records from bands I was in. We would have never put out anything, but you know what? Like you just figure it out. And I think that that's like, if a younger person was only listening to like,
00:46:20
Speaker
huge brands talk about the business, I would think that would be so frustrating, right? And it would seem like it was a non starter to be like, well, all right, I'm never gonna have a million dollars. So I guess I can't do this store. And it's like, well, no, like look around you. Like look at all you can get a storefront on the Lower East Side for like $2,000 a month. You know what I mean? Like, it's possible you can actually do it. Yeah.
00:46:48
Speaker
Totally. Yeah. I think there's like, there's like this epidemic of people feeling like things have to be fully formed out of the gate. And that's all social media like this idea that like a brand or a band or like any sort of venture has to be this like perfectly formed thing like right out of the gate. And I feel like that is so troubling because we're all human and like part of this
00:47:16
Speaker
is the process and it's that thing of it growing and evolving and being refined over time and getting better and better and better.
00:47:26
Speaker
Of course, there's like hiccups and roadblocks on the way, but you know, this thing of like, oh, I have to have like this thing. Perfect. Like right out of the gate is like, no, you don't just start. Just do something. You know what I mean? Do fucking something. That's yeah. That is such a like good motto to, to like adopt as your own. And that's like, you know, that's one of the mottos that I have taken to heart in my.
00:47:56
Speaker
like entire life basically and it's you know like you can you can start things you can do things and it like it doesn't have to be perfect and it may never be perfect like that's the other thing you have to realize that like if you're a real fucking human being you can do some shit that you want to do and nobody's gonna stop you
00:48:20
Speaker
Yeah. And also it can fail. Yeah. And that's okay too. Yeah. Like at least you tried and had that experience and you probably will learn something and be proud of the fact that like, okay, even if this didn't work out the way I thought, like my business didn't work out the way I thought, I thought I was going to have a store forever. Now I don't. Is that a failure?
00:48:59
Speaker
take a picture with a celebrity and post it on our Instagram. You know what I mean? That was just never my style. When I had the shop in Red Hook, we would get celebrities in there often and I was always like, just be cool, just treat them like a normal person, be helpful, whatever.
00:49:03
Speaker
I don't think so.
00:49:16
Speaker
So that was always my M.O. and I never wanted it to look like, you know, there's these pizzerias in New York where every time a celebrity comes in, they snap a pic and put it up on the wall and it's kind of alarming. It's a pizzeria, but I never wanted to be that way because I thought, you know what, if I can just treat these people like normal people, maybe they'll come back.
00:49:35
Speaker
That was my attitude. Totally. One day, one day some also like I don't get starstruck. Like I don't care. Like if someone comes in, I'll be like, Oh, okay, that's cool that they're here. That's interesting. I wonder why they're here or how they found the place. But one time somebody came in that legitimately kind of made me starstruck a little bit. And I was like, I can't believe this person is standing in my store right now. You know who it was?
00:50:04
Speaker
It was Jacob Bannon, the singer from... Oh, holy shit! That's awesome. Yeah. I met Jacob a couple of times, like Nate is a homie of mine for a long time because, you know, the fashion world and the music world overlap, but like that's so fucking perfect. So, okay. So the reason I bring this up is because.
00:50:27
Speaker
We get to talking and, you know, he's like the nicest guy. He comes right up to the counter, introduces himself. Hey, I'm Jacob.
00:50:35
Speaker
Nice to meet you. I had, I couldn't front. I was like, dude, I know, I know who you are in town in Brooklyn because they were playing that night at my buddy's venue, St. Vitus tickets. I was going to the show. So I was like, dude, I know who you are. Like I'm going to the show. Um, I've been listening to your band since I was in high school. It's like, I've been listening to your music for 20 years. Like it's so fucking cool that you're here right now. Like, why are you here?
00:51:04
Speaker
It turns out like his wife is in the vintage game up in Boston. He's a picker. He's into this stuff. He goes to Self Edge. He's kind of tapped into the world. But the reason I bring up this encounter is because he said something to me that was really freaking cool. Because we got on to me being into hardcore and having been in bands and stuff in my life and DIY and that whole kind of attitude and ethos.
Counterculture and Vintage Clothing Evolution
00:51:30
Speaker
he was like, well, what you're doing is counter cultural. Like what you're doing is still is punk, essentially. And I was like, damn, like, I never needed to hear something more than that. Like that kind of validation and that stamp I was like, oh, you're right. You're right. You know, I just felt like
00:51:49
Speaker
that sort of spirit, that independent spirit, that DIY ethic, that kind of punk attitude of like, fuck everything. I'm doing this my way. I'm doing it myself. I don't need anything. You know, the irony there is that like you end up building community and like do it yourself kind of morphs into like do it together, right? But you're finding like minded people. It's not like the community is coming from like some Silicon Valley like hedge fund. You know what I mean? That's, that's different.
00:52:19
Speaker
But anyway, just having that exchange from somebody that I really admire, not only as an artist, but as a business person too, as somebody who's figured it out, figured out how to be a creative person in this world and make a living, whether that's from running a record label, selling art, singing in a band, all that stuff really connected with me.
00:52:48
Speaker
It was like such a freaking cool moment and one that I'll like really probably never forget. So anyway, that's like my nerd story for that. I thought you were going to say Steve Bannon.
00:53:03
Speaker
didn't happen that way oh my god my god that man almost ruined barbers for everybody yeah dude he really did what a son of a bitch uh so i was gonna say we're touching on the counter cultural aspect of vintage um there at least for me is like
00:53:24
Speaker
in my perspective and a sort of an environmental angle to it as well, right? Like you're not buying something that has been additionally created with more plastic.
00:53:36
Speaker
totally. Yeah, I mean, look, I've never led with that. Because I think these people that are like, I vintage save the world. It's like, shut the fuck up. Right, right, right. Because that is bullshit. It is bullshit. And you're not saving the world. But but but I think like, a person who engages with vintage
00:53:57
Speaker
like what I prefer that to forever 21 or Zara or Sheen or whatever like the fast fashion of the of the day is of course right of course it's like to me that aspect of it was always obvious and never really needed to be stated like we never led with that like save the environment by vintage like it was never
00:54:24
Speaker
part of the conversation because it was kind of implied that it was maybe a better choice, but I'm also like not, I'm realistic. Like I'm a person, an adult with children living in 2024 and I understand that that attitude of like buy vintage, save the world, it gets sticky, right? Because like
00:54:50
Speaker
Vintage is not always the best choice for somebody, you know what I mean? Like nowadays, I feel like stuff, and not to get into like a political discussion about it, but like, I feel like stuff at goodwill can be more expensive than stuff at Walmart. And you don't have a lot of money
00:55:12
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, you're being forced into this sort of like, ethical conversation of like, oh, well, buying vintage is more ethical than buying at Target. Well, no, that's fucking bullshit. Because at the end of the day, like you got to do what you got to do, right? And like, I'm not here to say like, talk about anybody's, like how they choose to spend their dollar. Like, of course, these big companies are problematic and they're
00:55:39
Speaker
There's issues there. Do I think buying vintage is going to solve that problem? Absolutely not. But this thing—and it's the same with food. It's like clean food versus—it's all bullshit and it's like highly problematic language and especially to make it like an ethical conversation. I think that—
00:56:02
Speaker
when I was growing up, like, vintage clothing, secondhand clothing was not cool. Like, I was extremely like, impoverished growing up. So like, wearing vintage clothing or going to a thrift store to get clothing was not cool. You know what I mean? And I think we've come a long way from there. And it's encouraging for me to see younger people and this sort of younger generation be like, no, it is cool. I actually love that because
00:56:31
Speaker
I think there's just like an awareness now around like secondhand and vintage and of this like way to sort of express yourself and like of course there's like the environmental aspect of it, the individualistic aspect of it, like this idea of kind of like reusing or repairing or upcycling or modifying something to make it new and keep it out of the landfill. Like that's all really positive stuff. I'm happy that those
00:57:01
Speaker
ideas and ideals are kind of trending now. I think that's a good thing. But I think it's pretty problematic to say like, oh, one is like more ethical than the other. I don't think that's the case at all. I think given the choice, I'm gonna go vintage over Costco. But like, that's my choice. That's my preference. I also like this stuff. You know what I mean? It's not always cheaper. I mean, nowadays, like,
00:57:31
Speaker
I'm gonna just, can I just talk some shit for a second? Talk some shit, talk all the fucking shit. Dude, this thing of like people flexing on how much they spent on vintage clothing online is insane to me. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. This is a thing that happens because that is like antithetical to my entire existence. Like I'm the cheapest motherfucker possible.
00:57:58
Speaker
There are people who like, it's like how much, like how much was your fit essentially? And a lot of it is like secondhand or vintage. And it's like this thing of like, this kind of like bragging about how much you spent on anything.
00:58:13
Speaker
And to me, like I've been talking about this a lot lately because like I've been doing this alfargos market here every month. And like, so I have a lot of conversations around this stuff with like-minded people. And I just think it's funny to me because like in the vintage game, right? Like people are always like, Oh, what's your grail? Like, like, what do you, what's on your wish list? And it's funny because if you have money or if you're willing to spend money,
00:58:39
Speaker
you can get anything you want. But that's not as fun as finding it in the wild. Fuck no, it's not. Or getting a really good deal on something. Or getting a really good deal, right? That's the juice is the fucking deal differential. Are you kidding me? That's what makes this whole game fun and that thrill of the hunt and that excitement and being patient and just finding the right thing for the right price with the right story in the right place.
00:59:08
Speaker
That's the whole fun of it. Of course, if I wanted to spend $2,500 on a hook front navy deck jacket, I could do that right now. After this pot, I could hang up and go buy that. But I want to find one at a garage sale for $15. And I won't wait. I'll wait until that day.
00:59:33
Speaker
This is where the punk comes in. Because when you and I and Connor, when we were coming up, the thrift store was cool because we found shit that we loved. It might not be cool. I would lie to people about getting my stuff from the thrift store in the first place. Well, because it was so despised.
01:00:01
Speaker
To Brian's point, I mean, it was like, you were like a complete piece of shit. I think in the rural south, it wasn't that big of a deal. Like, I had one of my best friends. No, no, of course not. Like, one of my best friends throughout, you know, my early childhood to when I graduated, I haven't talked to him in a long time. Like, solely wore Abercrombie from like seventh grade on. And, but also like,
01:00:29
Speaker
there were 800 kids in my high school, maybe. So the status of shit never mattered. And I was thrifting from a very young age. And I was just like, I don't really give a fuck if you think it's cool or not. And nobody else, no one else truly gave a fuck. We all just existed together.
01:00:53
Speaker
Well it goes to showing us that there are different experiences in the world but like it just no one is no one is saying like buying secondhand clothing was and has always been like an above board choice to make like a lot of people it was that essential thing but now for who many of those people
01:01:16
Speaker
they've been priced out of it completely and they need it. Yeah. And I mean, to a point, yes, but like also, you know, in certain places, like you go to thrift stores and it's still, it's still affordable and there's a plethora of things. Like I hate, I always hate the, like, like thrifting is a privileged thing in the vintage world. Like it comes up here and there. And I'm just like, guys, you, you, you,
01:01:46
Speaker
touch grass. Um, but you know, like there is, there always has been that individualistic aspect of it, which I think is like, it's kind of where the, the like punk and subcultural, um, pipeline comes from.
01:02:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that it the clothing thing for me like started even before that, though, and I think the the sort of like punk music, skateboarding, counter cultural stuff only just like enhanced it because I think I could go back even further
01:02:28
Speaker
to being a kid and just being into clothes, not vintage, not anything, but just really caring and thinking about it a lot and having a feeling when I put on a certain outfit or a certain shoe or whatever, and that feeling of going into school like a million bucks. That felt really good to me from a really young age and it was something that
01:02:59
Speaker
I see now, even in my daughter who's five, she's very opinionated and puts things together in her own way and doesn't really want
01:03:09
Speaker
my input or my wife's input, you know, she wants to sort of express herself in that in her own way. And I love the stuff that she comes up with because she is like maximalist to the extreme like pattern clashing, stripes, polka dots, like different colors, different everything. And I'm just like, this is so aspirational to me. Like I love the way that she dresses and puts it all together. I think it's so cool and
01:03:36
Speaker
I just love that she cares. I think that's what it kind of comes down to is that caring about it and being interested in it was always what it was about for me and experimenting and just trying different things. I'm not going to front like I had this perfectly dialed in sense of style from a young age. It wasn't that way at all. I think by the time I was like,
01:04:05
Speaker
maybe a senior in high school, freshman in college, I really kind of like zeroed in on this like vintage look, you know, that I was really into. I wore basically the same thing every day.
01:04:17
Speaker
But I look back on that, I'm like, okay, like a lot of that stuff I would still wear. But I think by the time I got around the garden. What's the uniform look like? Oh, back then? All right, so this would be like 99, 2000. I was every single day. Like, this is kind of funny. When I graduated high school, my grandfather gave me $100 and said, congratulations.
01:04:36
Speaker
And like an idiot, I went up to the Tanger outlet mall in Riverhead and bought a pair of chocolate suede wallabies with the $100 because they were like 99 bucks at the time. I would wear those with some like worn in Wrangler jeans like the I guess they were boot cut.
01:05:04
Speaker
They were like the cowboy cut that everyone's wearing now, which is kind of funny. So it's not like an extreme flare, but like a slight, yeah, like a little baby flare at the bottom. And then some sort of like 50-50 cotton poly like threadbare tea and a Levi's or Wrangler denim jacket. So it was denim on denim with the wallabies and a vintage tee. And that was every single day. Like that's what I was rocking. By the time I came around to like wooden sleepers, which was many years later,
01:05:33
Speaker
Um, you know, things had shifted, but it's funny, like, I think I was quite a bit older when I started wooden sleepers than a lot of the other people who are like in that kind of hashtag menswear moment. So I think a lot of like people were kind of figuring out their style. And that's where like, there were so many changes and trends and tastes through those years, like 2009, 10, 11, 12, da, da, da, da, went from like,
01:06:00
Speaker
preppy to heritage to Italian to whatever, whatever. It was like rapid. Yeah. My style never changed during that time because I was like already in my thirties. I was like, this is how I want to dress. Like this is how I dress. Right, right. Yeah. Like I had friends would be like in a fucking East Isaiah suit one year and then like Rick Owens the next and it like I love that because I went through that too as a younger person that kind of exploration and like finding what you like and trying different things like I loved
01:06:42
Speaker
It never changed. If you go back and look at screenshots from when I started Wooden Sleepers on Etsy in 2010, the assortment is exactly the same as what I'm selling now. Maybe it's a little better now. It's a little more refined, but essentially, it's that same mix of things that I really loved, like the workwear, the military, the Ivy stuff, and the
01:06:50
Speaker
being there for that.
01:07:05
Speaker
the sort of outdoorsy, like, Gorpy stuff, you know? And that's always been what I've been into, like, from that point on, basically. So, yeah, it's been funny. Well, the in-person... Do you have a name for it? Do you have a name for it? Have you concocted, like, a... in your head name for it as a namer of things?
01:07:27
Speaker
Not to put you on the spot. Not really. I said something silly once that I thought would be a thing, but it was not a thing, which was like it wasn't representative of the whole. It was if it was sort of like a
01:07:42
Speaker
terrible at math but like the X and Y like the no I know exactly what you're talking about cuz I'm always trying to graph shit and I have no idea so I think if I have like my quadrant and I have like Ivy work where outdoors and military right like okay what's yeah so I came up with like Ivy spec which was like a play on like mil spec which was like kind of pairing the military stuff
01:08:11
Speaker
That didn't really take off. And then it left out the other two. So I got to keep workshopping this. I got to keep workshopping. You can do it. I believe in you. I was rolling out Poison Ivy for a while. Poison Ivy. I get it. And I like where you're coming from on that. I saw that post and I was like, I like this. Because, you know, and it's funny, I was talking about this with
01:08:38
Speaker
Nick, right, Andrew from Alfargos and J-Press. He's been on this very program. And I was like, I was like, Nick, I was talking about like J-Press, who's a great partner. I have a pop-up shop in the J-Press store in New York City. And I said, Nick, you know, J-Press is sort of like this beacon of like conservative dress, traditional style, da, da, da. I was like, why does everybody who work, why is everyone at J-Press a freak?
01:09:10
Speaker
Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, and we couldn't really figure it out. But he said that there was something there. And I think part of like my interest in that world is it's kind of like part voyeuristic, but also part like
01:09:27
Speaker
like appropriation like I liked the idea of like taking something that wasn't technically mine and being like this is mine now you know like I didn't like the status quo yeah I didn't grow up like around the country club or the golf club or the yacht club but like
01:09:46
Speaker
I'm going to take that polo, I'm going to take those cordovan loafers, I'm going to take that seersucker jacket and I'm going to make it my own. Like this is mine now. I like that like FU attitude of like, I may not come from this world, but like, I'm going to sort of take this thing and make it my own. I kind of feel like that's like a very like Japanese approach to where it's like, I've always looked to
01:10:12
Speaker
Japan style as like they're sort of taking the greatest hits of American style and clothing and really just making it their own because I think they're more free to do that because there's not like the cultural baggage that comes along with some of this stuff. Right, right. That's a great point.
01:10:32
Speaker
Case in point, like one time I brought home Birkenstocks and I got in like this blowout argument with my wife who's such a punk, like she was like, this is like hippie bullshit, like you're changing, like it was a really big thing. And finally I was like, fuck this, I'm returning these things because I don't want to deal with this every, I don't want to get roasted in this way. And I was like,
01:10:54
Speaker
but like look at this engineered garments lookbook like they're wearing them and it's cool and da da da and she didn't get it at all and I respect that now I think it's really funny in hindsight that this is that was a that was like a hot button issue but it just proves to show that like clothes matter and clothes really symbolize a lot of things and
01:11:15
Speaker
Different people have these connotations to clothing that is like super deep seated and interesting and this like visceral reaction to certain things where you're just like, oh, I would never do that. But then people flip it and take it and make it their own. And it's like very interesting to see when that happens, like taking something that's really meant for one thing or meant for one type of person. And then somebody else comes in and says, you know what? I'm going to take this and make it my own and flip it on its head.
01:11:45
Speaker
I really respect that, and I don't know that I'm quite that adventurous, but in my own little way, that was sort of my approach. I think part of that J-press thing that's fascinating for people is, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that
01:12:01
Speaker
in a weird way. I think Jay presses like curmudgeon II resistance to change is like kind of punk in a way because they're like, dude, everybody else is doing we are just going to keep doing the same thing our way. And we don't care what else is going on in the world. And we've been doing this for like 120 years. And that's the part of it that I really got into. And I don't think I'm alone in that. But this is something
01:12:29
Speaker
This is a developing story. We're going to report back on this. Brian David's part two about so many things is going to be fucking great. Maybe a year from now, we'll get to that point. Yeah. So the inverse to Connor's question, just to kind of start to wrap things up.
01:12:55
Speaker
Is there something like, you know, obviously you said that you've been into clothing and things for a long time, even if you couldn't name it. Is there a particular like item or style or something that really sparked that interest in you?
01:13:18
Speaker
Well, how far back are we going here? As far back as you want to go. Like I could, I can see you at any point. What my, like, what the point of my realization, I'm like, Oh, close or cool is. So I kind of want that moment from you.
01:13:36
Speaker
Totally. And, you know, I think I remember it as clear as day because it was the first time I remember desiring something in that way, right? Seeing something and thinking, wow, this is cool. This is going to like improve my life. Right. Right. And it was a Samba classic and I was in fourth grade and it was probably like 1992 or something.
01:14:04
Speaker
And the irony there, of course, is that everybody knows the Sama classic is like the most popular shoe in the fucking world right now. I can't wear it. I can't wear it because of that. Not that I even feel like I need to or want to, but there was a part of me that felt like
01:14:22
Speaker
I had this authentic connection to it, but when something is trending that hard, I can't. I feel it. Living is losing everything that you love. Take it all away from you and you can never have it.
01:14:40
Speaker
No, no, no, it'll cool off. It'll cool off and I'll maybe I'll get you'll be able to rep them I mean what and how long like so much shit like I had to wait so long to get glasses that look like this cuz like Everyone was having glasses and now it's like everyone has fucking glasses that look like this. You can't win dude I mean and at some point like I'm just neurotic and I think that like I should just be
01:15:04
Speaker
be able to do what I want and enjoy them. Because honestly, like nobody cares. Right. Right. Nobody is noticing outside of us nerds. Dude, I think about you know what I think about every day I dropped my daughter off at school. And I think about that like meme that's like the stick figure in the corner. That's like, nobody knows. Like,
01:15:28
Speaker
you know like it's like all dads in under armor like they don't give a fuck what i'm wearing right you know and i'm just over there like no one knows this is vintage eddie bower like no one knows this is a beach jacket like you know what i mean and it's so ridiculous like especially living up in in where i live now
01:15:47
Speaker
There's no runway. Nobody cares. In Brooklyn, it's different, right? Because people are observing, people are getting dressed, they're expressing themselves. I think even then, nobody really cares. Nobody really cares what you're doing. So anyway, I guess the moral of the story is I should probably go cop some sambas because
01:16:10
Speaker
When I was in full grade and got the sambas, my grandma bought them for me. I just loved them. I loved the big tongue. I just felt cool. I just felt cool. I loved them. That was like the first pair of sneakers that I bought, I think. Yeah. Because GQ said you could wear them with a suit.
01:16:32
Speaker
I could not wear them with a suit in that moment and probably never. That's really funny. You know, and I think like it just went on from there. I think every year it's like something different for me. This has been, I think I had this realization the other day where wooden sleepers is something that I've been doing
Passion for Vintage and Podcast Appreciation
01:16:53
Speaker
almost longer than any other thing in my life. Like I've never done something this long and still have such an enthusiasm for it. Like every day I am excited to try to find some other obscure piece of clothing.
01:17:15
Speaker
Right? It's totally mad. And it's like, every day I'm excited about it. And I'm excited to like, get it for myself. I'm excited to get it for other people. I think at the end of the day, like I am a born retailer, like I've always loved that exchange, like somebody trying something on, it's the perfect thing, they buy it, they're happy, it's special, it matters.
01:17:44
Speaker
Like I love that exchange and I always loved that about having a store and I still love it now. Like that's why I do the markets every now and then just to like get that little retail fix and there's nothing better than that. And you know, I think a lot of people are like, Oh, it's my dream to have a store. And I'm like, do you like people? And they're like, no.
01:18:05
Speaker
Do you like customer service? No. Do you like helping people? No. It's like, you don't want to have a store. Cause that part of it is what it's all about, I think. It's a connection.
01:18:20
Speaker
It's always evolving. I get into something and I just want to find it in 10 different colors. I get obsessed with brands, certain eras and certain styles.
01:18:37
Speaker
man i just go deep i go deep i'm adding that i'm adding that to the document for your next interview uh yeah because i think that that would be excellent thing to to discuss yeah and i would be remiss in the adidas conversation if i did not mention the bouncing souls
01:18:54
Speaker
uh who are huge samba fans so yes you heard it here first it's funny i was at a vintage market this past weekend and somebody was selling a bouncing souls t-shirt for an exorbitant amount of money
01:19:13
Speaker
because my wife's a huge Bouncing Souls fan. And the t-shirt was really cool because it was actually dated 93. I don't think their first album came out till 94. So this is like a demo or like seven inch bounce. I actually feel like now it was a deal, but I just like didn't want to spend the money. I'm kind of regretting it. Yeah, it'll hopefully come back around. Something will come back around.
01:19:42
Speaker
Yeah, I remember being in junior high and seeing somebody older than me walking down the hall in my high school with that Bouncing Souls t-shirt with the MTV logo on the back with that red cross through it. And I remember just thinking that was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. Fuck yes. Great fucking band. I've never met them or seen them, but they seem like great dudes.
01:20:06
Speaker
lifers lifers lifers for sure yeah we love lifers we do love lifers uh in all aspects brian this has been fan-fucking-tastic man um i know it would i don't want it to end yeah i i don't either no unfortunately we're we may have to soon um but we will we will have a part two you're amazing thank you
01:20:34
Speaker
I'm down anytime and keep doing what you're doing. You're doing it right. And I love your pod. I love the guests. I know a lot of your guests. So it's just like, yeah, just dropping conversation.
01:20:49
Speaker
Like I have been obsessed with listening to podcasts of people that I like know or know through a couple of people recently. The first ever podcast by Jeremy from Touche Amore has been a big one. I'm a blammo and like Jeremy interviews a lot of people that I know and that have like similar background. But yeah, like I don't know this whole
01:21:18
Speaker
I didn't say this when we were talking about it earlier, but like all of this shit is so interconnected. And like, you know, we talk with Tony Sylvester about finding your people and like, that's, I feel like that's why we have on who we do. And like, we're, we're all part of this like community and just want to support one another. So.
01:21:43
Speaker
100%, man. And thank you for, you know, shining a light on it. I feel like you guys are really leaning into people that are part of this community, but maybe don't get a light shined on as, as some others do. And I think that's really cool because a lot of the people you guys touch on, they are like normal people who have normal jobs.
01:22:07
Speaker
and are just really into this from an enthusiast's kind of perspective. And I think that that's so valuable and so cool to hear their stories because you don't really know a lot of people and then getting to hear them talk about themselves or their own journey is like super freaking cool. So I will be tuning in again and again. So thank you. You are very dear. You are very dear, Brian.
01:22:35
Speaker
Uh, one more time. Thank you so much. Um, we always want to give our guests a chance to shout things out that they want to. So have at it. Oh, uh, you know, just, uh, I mean, I'm, you know, the, the cheesy ending outro, just, uh, give a follow on Instagram. We're at wooden sleepers. Um, and pretty much everything going on in my world can be found there.
01:23:04
Speaker
If you or your listeners ever find yourself in the tri-state New York City area, please drop me a line and make an appointment at the showroom. It's cool to get to experience this stuff in real life.
01:23:20
Speaker
Otherwise, you could find me at Alfargo's Marketplace most months, and that's pretty much all I've got cooking right now. Thank you guys for the opportunity, and I really, really appreciate it. It's been fantastic. Yeah. Everyone listening, thank you so much.
01:23:43
Speaker
We're getting back into the swing of things after the Mad Men oral history series, which please check that out if you have not. Brian Bat. Brian Bat is the finale, and that was like a wild moment for us. Yeah.
01:24:03
Speaker
Also, speaking of Starstruck, not how we were, but kind of how we were. Yeah, it was a great show. Please rate, review, subscribe on your platform of choice. I am Matt Smith at Rubble's Rogues on Instagram.
01:24:28
Speaker
And I'm Connor Nunez at Real Connor Nunez. And, uh, apocalypse studs at gmail.com. If you have questions, comments, concerns at apocalypse studs on Instagram. Uh, we appreciate each and every one of you. Cheerio.