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Hospice Nurse Julie: Navigating Death, Grief, and Life's Transitions with Julie McFadden
36 Plays2 days ago
JULIE MCFADDEN, RN, is the New York Times bestselling author of Nothing to Fear and a hospice/palliative care nurse with more than fifteen years of experience. Passionate about normalizing death and dying, she has more than one million followers on TikTok as @hospicenursejulie. She has been featured in Newsweek, Time, USA Today, and The Atlantic, and has appeared on Dr. Phil Primetime, Howie Mandel Does Stuff, and elsewhere. Her most recent book THE NOTHING TO FEAR JOURNAL is an invaluable tool for putting our beliefs about death into practice through thought-provoking questions that prompt reflection, clarification, and planning.
Interview Highlights:
• Introducing Hospice Nurse Julie: Meet Julie McFadden, an RN known as "Hospice Nurse Julie" on TikTok (1.6M+ followers) and a New York Times bestselling author of "Nothing to Fear" and "Nothing to Fear Journal"
• Breakups as Grief: She shares how a painful breakup at 28-29 was a "greatest gift," fostering self-discovery and growth, and how breakups represent profound, often unvalidated grief and transitions.
• Fear of Transition: Kendra and Julie explore how fear of the unknown, not death itself, makes life transitions scary, and criticize society's "fix-it" culture that avoids uncomfortable emotions.
• Finding Hospice: Unhappy in the ICU, Julie "took the plunge" into hospice nursing, even without prior experience, finding her calling and realizing the environment, not nursing itself, was the issue.
• Personal Beliefs on Death: Julie, having experienced tragic deaths young, believes we go to a place that feels "more like home" after death, a belief validated by her hospice work, though she emphasizes it's a personal journey. Faith can aid in peaceful dying, but is not a prerequisite; she's seen atheists die peacefully and religious people struggle.
• TikTok Phenomenon: Inspired by her nieces during COVID-19, Julie started TikTok, initially thinking it "stupid". Her fourth video went viral, leading to rapid organic growth across platforms (1.6M+ on TikTok, 1.3M on Facebook, nearly 500K on Instagram, nearly 600K on YouTube) and a book deal, indicating people were "more ready to talk about this than we knew.
• "Nothing to Fear" Book & Journal: Her New York Times bestselling book is an educational resource with intertwined stories and an index. The "Nothing to Fear Journal" offers step-by-step guidance for preparing for death, exploring existential questions, and uncovering personal belief.
• Comfort in Biology: The most comforting aspect of death for Julie is the biology of the body, how it naturally prepares by shutting off hunger/thirst and increasing calcium, which she sees as a miracle and the primary reason she is not afraid of death.
Contact Kendra Rinaldi for a Free Discovery call email her at griefgratitudepodcast@gmail.com to set up an appointment.
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To be a guest visit https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/book-online
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Transcript
Julie's Afterlife Beliefs
00:00:01
Speaker
I've always been a seeker, so I've always felt connected to something that I can't quite explain that I think has to do with where we go when we die. to me, I think when we die, we go to a place that feels more like home than, you know, here ever really could.
00:00:19
Speaker
um Now, ah I don't preach that because like that's just my belief and out and people don't need to believe what I believe. And I don't think you need to believe that to go back to your home. Like, I don't think it's a thing that you need to like get into.
00:00:32
Speaker
I think it's a place we come from. um So I've always kind of felt that ah for whatever reason. Right. I don't know why.
Introducing the Podcast
00:00:45
Speaker
Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions. Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone.
00:01:06
Speaker
Your journey matters, and here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:23
Speaker
Our guest today is Julie McFadden. She's an RN and she is also known for being hospice nurse Julie on TikTok with over 1.6 million TikTok followers, which it's Mind blowing for me, the fact that her conversations and I actually checked out that little video of how it was that that journey started on TikTok.
00:01:48
Speaker
And I'd love for you to share in just a few minutes of your TikTok journey and how your nieces were the ones to inspire you getting on TikTok. And she is the New York Times bestselling author, her first book, the Nothing to nothing to Fear book.
00:02:04
Speaker
And now we have the Nothing to Fear journal. And so we are excited to have you on the podcast, Julie. Welcome. Yay, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
00:02:18
Speaker
you. am so happy you're here and we get to talk all things hospice, palliative care, death, preparing for death, and also about your
Julie’s Career Journey
00:02:29
Speaker
own life. So I like to start off a little bit to get to know you. So before we started recording, I know you live in Los Angeles. Is this where you grew up?
00:02:42
Speaker
I grew up in Erie, Pennsylvania. So I lived there for the first 25 years of my life. Then I moved to Baltimore, Maryland, and then I moved to California almost 15 years ago.
00:02:55
Speaker
So your hospice nurse experience really like working as a hospice nurse started in California then, because it's about that many years that you've been working as a hospice nurse. Is that correct? I've been working as a hospice nurse for probably eight or nine years. i have to I have to figure it out, but around eight or nine years, and it's only been in Los Angeles, yes.
00:03:14
Speaker
Okay. So when you moved, was it because you had already a job set up or was it for other reasons? Was it love, family? What was the reason of you moving?
00:03:27
Speaker
I moved, my sister was here in Los Angeles. I had a bad breakup. So I was, I was a nurse in Baltimore, Maryland at ICU nurse. And I just took a travel nurse position, meaning like to get me to California as an ICU nurse.
Impact of Personal Breakup
00:03:42
Speaker
And my sister was here and I basically was just going through a bad breakup and was like, i need to start anew. So I did. Here I So I love that you're sharing this part of the breakup because we,
00:03:56
Speaker
we're talking about death here and these transitions in life and how do we prepare for them? Do you not feel that breakup is one of these really major griefs that we go through in transitions in life that sometimes are not even validated as much?
00:04:11
Speaker
Oh my gosh, definitely. I mean, i don't know if every, at least for me, not every breakup has felt like that. and And when I, as I got older and as I grew more confident with myself, breakups are still hard, but they weren't they haven't been as devastating. I think back then it's like, I put so much of me right into this relationship. I valued it like more than anything, more than even my own desires.
00:04:38
Speaker
Right. So to lose that at the time felt so devastating. You know, I had this idea in my head, I was probably 28, 29. I was going to marry this guy. Like, you know, my life was going to quote unquote start, you know,
00:04:52
Speaker
and And it didn't. So, and I put so much of me, I lost myself a lot in that relationship. And um so it was very hard, very devastating. But one of the greatest gifts I've ever received, one of the greatest gifts I've ever received was, was that breakup.
00:05:10
Speaker
And I think now breakups still hurt, but in a more healthy way, because I'm more sure of who I am and what I want and need. Yeah. go further into that part that you just said that it's one of the greatest gifts. Why do you feel that it was one of the greatest gifts?
00:05:27
Speaker
At least for me, um pain pain moves me forward. Like it's really hard for me to stick to things that I know are good for me unless I'm like in a lot of pain and I'm super desperate.
00:05:39
Speaker
So that breakup caused so much pain, so much pain that I just needed to change. I needed to grow. i needed to seek to figure out like, why does this hurt so much? Like what, what, what do I need more of to help me?
00:05:57
Speaker
Um, and it really just moved me forward in like this, this search of like who I am and how to self soothe. Right. Cause like it hurt really bad. And like this person in my life that I was, I was using them to like, not feel bad.
00:06:14
Speaker
Right. But then they were no longer in my life. So how can I self soothe? Like, what do I need to take care of myself? Like, how can I trust that I'm going to be okay? Even if I'm not with this person, even if my life doesn't look like it's supposed to look and that, and learning those things, like in the,
00:06:33
Speaker
like in the darkness, I guess, like really helped me see that there is light. I am being guided. i am okay um with or without someone. and and And I never would have learned that if I didn't if i did not go through that pain.
00:06:49
Speaker
Yes. Thank you. And thanks for going down that route. You probably didn't expect me asking about your breakup and this and the how it can relate
Embracing Transitions and Grief
00:06:57
Speaker
to grief. But when we've had these type of emotions, we we sometimes think that we've only gone through grief if somebody's died and we don't realize we go through grief every day pretty much.
00:07:11
Speaker
there' is in Every day there's something that maybe didn't go as we thought and we can't experience grief. And something I even thought the other day, it's like that the moment we're even born,
00:07:28
Speaker
it's already a grief. We've been in this comfy, cozy little place. And then all of a sudden, and here's your new home. It's like, what?
00:07:39
Speaker
It's like, it's a, it's a, it's a new experience for this little baby who was comfortable. And this is all they knew. And the same with relationships, that the same when we're preparing to die. And there's something that you mentioned in the journal that death is not what's scary. Let me see if I have the word. It was not that death is what is scary. It's fear is the one that really is the one that ends up affecting how it is we die, right? So the same with this. Any transition, it's really that fear of that transition that can be the one that catalyzes so much emotion.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah. The unknown, like the unknown we can fill with so much scariness if we choose to, right. If we don't know. and I mean, and death is the ultimate unknown, right. But even in the death of a relationship, the, the death of a job, the death of what you thought your life would be,
00:08:41
Speaker
um When there's that void, it's easy to like fill it with fear, with, with, with the worst possible outcome or what about, you know, and that's just a survival thing that we have naturally as humans.
00:08:55
Speaker
But like, can we work on, and the day that we're in on a daily basis, believing that, um,
00:09:05
Speaker
Like believing that we're being guided, believing that there is something to be learned here now and and believing that it's okay to feel really scary. It's okay to feel fear. It's okay to feel sad. It's okay to feel uncomfortable emotions too. I think that's a big thing is like, we don't want to feel uncomfortable.
00:09:22
Speaker
And if we do, what's the problem? How do we fix it? So I don't have to feel this anymore. Yes. We're in a fix it culture in general. like that's like We cannot. not yeah And even as parents or like as adults, when you're navigating kids going through something a right away, you're trying to fix the boo boo, fix this, you know, like, oh, no, yeah oh don't cry. It's okay. That was not that big a deal. that that Constantly covering up our emotions since we're little because the rest of the people are uncomfortable with
00:09:56
Speaker
those emotions, you know, when you're not going through that, so right. And then you cover it up because you don't want to make others feel uncomfortable. Right. Yes. Cause I was just thinking about this breakup.
00:10:09
Speaker
What it did to me was there was nothing that would make me quote unquote, feel better. I just wanted to feel better and nothing was making me feel better.
00:10:19
Speaker
And this
Unexpected Path to Nursing
00:10:20
Speaker
was back, which is a whole nother story. This is back when I was drinking. And using drugs and stuff. So like even that stuff was like not giving me relief. Right. And i think there's something that cracks you open when like you just have to exist in this feeling that is so uncomfortable. And grief does that to you, no matter how, what no matter why you're feeling the grief. Right. And there's something that I think is like life changing because of that.
00:10:51
Speaker
Mostly in a good way, whether you whether you feel, ah see it at the time. But I think it's like when there's nothing you can do to feel better, you just have to feel it. ah in there' And then, and there's a choice in that, in that, ah in, in that.
00:11:08
Speaker
pit of where you're at in your, in your misery in that moment. There some, there really is a choice as to how it is you wish to come out of that.
00:11:18
Speaker
yeah You know, you, you have choices in the actions that you do that can help in that process. Okay. You said a lot about your own journey there regarding even having been in, in alcohol and drugs. So take us into the journey of what led you to be a nurse and And then what led you into the path of hospice care? How was that? You said travel you were a traveling nurse.
00:11:41
Speaker
So I want to know it all. How did Julie become a nurse? Okay, Julie, I've been a nurse for 16, probably almost 17 years now. When I originally became a nurse, I was 23. had a degree in psychology. i was working in a mental health hospital, like running groups and things like that, thinking I was going to become a therapist.
00:12:02
Speaker
And a few things happened on that unit with patients like medically. And I remember seeing nurses like running to the the emergency and me like running away from the emergency and being like, oh, like I can't, it was just too much.
00:12:19
Speaker
And I remember thinking like, oh, wow, that's so cool that there's like people that like run towards emergencies and like know what to do. And then I was young and in impressionable. And my best friend was in an accelerated nursing program where you can get your bachelor four-year degree, your bachelor's degree, like your BSN.
00:12:39
Speaker
It's called in nursing in three semesters. If you already have a four-year degree. Okay. So I was like, maybe I'll do that. I don't really want to go back to school again for another four-year degree, but if I could get a four-year degree in three semesters and my besties doing it,
00:12:55
Speaker
So it was a little bit of like, because things in my life happened, but it was a lot of like, I was young and didn't know what I really wanted to do. And my best friend was doing it. And then once I got into nursing school, I loved it.
00:13:07
Speaker
i loved it. I didn't realize how much I love science, how much I love biology, how much I love pathophysiology. i loved it. I was like eating it up. I loved it. I could not wait to be a nurse. I was like, this was what I've been meaning to do. I can't believe it.
00:13:21
Speaker
So I became a nurse, which was like this ultimate, I could not believe. It just felt so hard that I, it really was this thing of like, I've worked, I've never worked so hard in my life at something. It was so hard.
00:13:35
Speaker
And then when I passed my NCLEX, which is the test that nurses take, and like you just feel, every nurse is like, I'm never going to pass. like It's just so traumatizing. And then when i I remember seeing Julie McFadden RN, and I was like, oh I did it. like i couldn't I get chills right now just thinking about it because it was so unbelievable. I was like, I can't believe this. this I did it.
00:13:57
Speaker
Okay, so then I Googled number one hospital in the country because I was like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to like it. I love it. You're like, I am going to be in the number one hospital.
00:14:09
Speaker
And it was like so ego-y. It was just like, I'm going to be the best. I'm going to work at the best place. So i uprooted my whole life in Pennsylvania and moved to Baltimore, Maryland. Because at the time, Johns Hopkins was the best hospital.
00:14:21
Speaker
i think I think it is for many years, but I think it has and it would it it doesn't matter. At the time, that was the best hospital. I don't know if it still is. But, um, and I wanted to be an ICU nurse, which is a critical care nurse opposite of hospice.
00:14:33
Speaker
And I was going to go back to school for anesthesia after a couple of years, I had a whole plan. Then I actually started nursing and then I was like in for a rude awakening because it was really hard, really scary.
00:14:48
Speaker
And I loved it, but it was just like so much harder and scarier than I ever imagined. And, So the whole idea of like doing anesthesia school and stuff after two years was like out the door. Cause still two years in, I was like, what am I doing? i don't know what's going I was still felt like a new, very, very new nurse. So it was like, I'm not going back to school yet. Are you kidding me?
00:15:10
Speaker
And thank God, because then probably around year three or four, I started being like, this is not what I want to be doing. Like, I don't know what's, I don't know what's happening here. I don't know what I was expecting, but like people are dying. Not all the time. Sometimes we are doing wonderful things, but like we're keeping people alive at all costs. Like we're not really talking to the families about the fact that they're going to die. Like people are, and this is, this is crude, but it's real.
00:15:39
Speaker
People are literally like rotting away in bed and we are allowing this to happen. because we are so afraid to say that someone's dying.
00:15:51
Speaker
And I don't know if we're consciously afraid, like we're not purposely being like, ha ha ha ha, you know, let's hurt people. You know, we're just trying to preserve life at all times. Yeah. It's not malicious. And and a lot of times you, you know, doctors and give this hope, but sometimes it's detrimental to the patient and to the families to get kind of this false, even, you know, hope.
00:16:15
Speaker
Yes. We need to get better about that. And that's what I
Importance of Open Death Conversations
00:16:19
Speaker
thought. I was like, we need to get better at talking about death. And this, this one stories in my book, which I won't tell the whole story, but basically I had but one patient where I was their nurse for like months and months and months every day.
00:16:29
Speaker
And this guy I knew was going to die and we weren't talking about it. And I felt, and I knew this man very well. I felt like I did because I, and, and his, and his spouse, because i was their nurse for so long, you know? and i And I finally was the one who spoke up during rounds that said like, I think we need to have a family meeting about like something like very vague, like about future plans, you know?
00:16:54
Speaker
And cause I didn't have the heart to be like about death. So, but but everyone knew what I was talking about. And it was like, I spoke about the elephant in the room. And instantly everyone agreed with me. Yes, yes, yes, yes. We need to do this. And it all happened that day.
00:17:09
Speaker
We had a family meeting in that and my patient who i love very much died that night because the family heard the truth and the family was like, no, we're not going to keep doing this then.
00:17:19
Speaker
And although it was so sad and devastating because it did feel a little bit like at the time, like, oh God, he died because of me, which is not true. It also gave me a sense of like, oh, this is...
00:17:31
Speaker
Someone just needs to talk about it. And I can be that someone if, if I believe in this. Right. um So that got me into this whole death and dying thing eventually. And then eventually, i still, I still stayed in the ICU, even though I was very unhappy for like another, probably four more years, you know, just cause it was what I knew.
00:17:51
Speaker
and then I eventually just took the plunge just, and there's no rhyme or reason to why i suddenly did it. I think I was just like in enough pain in the ICU, meaning like I just didn't like my job anymore, that it finally put like pain pushes me to do things.
00:18:07
Speaker
Right. So I eventually just like took the plunge and applied for a hospice job that said, you know it was a nursing job and it said like, must have hospice experience. I did not.
00:18:18
Speaker
And I just applied anyway and I got the job. And then that started of my nursing or my, that started my hospice nursing journey.
00:18:32
Speaker
Hi, I just had to come on and just kind of interrupt right now this episode that you're hearing. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful that you guys are listening to this conversation. And every single time i hear a guest, there's something new that I learn and something else that ends up showing up within me that I realize I still have to work on.
00:18:52
Speaker
And if by chance, as you're listening to this conversation, you're feeling the same, that there's parts of you that are being stirred up and you are navigating a life transition right now that feels just heavy and stressful and just layered with grief.
00:19:06
Speaker
I want you to know that you do not have to do it alone. I invite you to connect with me for a free 15 minute discovery call and we'll explore what's coming up for you and see if working together feels like the right fit. Just check the show notes below for my email and reach out for details.
00:19:26
Speaker
I'd really love to support you in integrating these transitions with more ease and clarity. Can't wait to hear back from you. Okay, let's keep on listening to the episode.
Learning from Hospice Patients
00:19:45
Speaker
Okay. So you, you start then this journey as a hospice nurse and you are now bringing this element of peace, of truth, of of, um, of hope in a different way, because it's not the hope that someone's going to get better, but it's,
00:20:09
Speaker
the hope that they can die in a peaceful way. So you are having these conversations. How did that energy of you inputting it into hospice care completely shift all these relationships? And you experienced it then with this patient in the ICU that first time that you went through that and he died. So how did that start kind of evolving every time that you would bring up this conversation about death?
00:20:36
Speaker
In ICU or with hospice? With hospice. So with hospice, I felt like everyone was teaching me because I did not know what I was doing. I did not know what I was doing. And because I was an experienced nurse already, that's why they say like must have hospice experience because they're not really teaching you stuff.
00:20:56
Speaker
Right. So I had a, of course I had a nurse that I followed around for the first, maybe three months of being a hospice nurse. Um, but you, it's very much learn on the job as far as like how to talk to people, what to say, what not to say, like how to, and really my patients taught me that first year. I could not believe what I witnessed that first year of being a hospice nurse, like how little we had to do for the body to be okay while dying and seeing a natural death, even though they're dying from something, they're still naturally dying.
00:21:29
Speaker
Meaning like they're letting the body take over and like do its thing. versus an ICU death was like mind blowing. It is so different. It is so different. and and And I don't think you know that even as a healthcare care worker, unless you are in hospice, because I saw many people die, but not, but in the hospital being, you know, machines being taken away and medication being taken away. So then they die. They still die peacefully, but it's still different.
00:21:56
Speaker
They look different. It is different. So what I saw that the first year, I saw so many things that I was just amazed by that our bodies are so amazing And i had a great doctor that i worked with and we all worked with at this hospice company who I would, you know, we would follow her around every once in a while to go to her appointments and listen to her talk to the patients and the things that she said.
00:22:21
Speaker
She was so good at explaining death and dying and and asking open ended questions so they'd start talking. And I just sort of absorbed what she was saying like a sponge. And I started taking what she said and I started saying it. Right. So was big learning curve that first couple of years.
00:22:40
Speaker
Um, and I just really grew to love it. I mean, I really, if if you are unhappy in your nursing career, if any nurses are listening to this, please try other areas because I thought for the longest time that it was just me and I just didn't like nursing.
00:22:57
Speaker
And that's not true. i love what I do now. And it's because I found where I can really thrive. And there's so many things you could do with a nursing degree. So if you don't like where you are move around because I'm so grateful I did because now I love what I do.
00:23:15
Speaker
I love that you're sharing that. Yeah, a lot of times it's not the what you do is the where you are. And right. It's that that also has an impact. So i want to hear from you, what was your own perception of death prior to learning from your patients and going through those? what And how did that completely shift? Because of course, now you wrote a book and now a journal of how to be able to start preparing and having these conversations with somebody that's dying, but also these questions that we should be starting to ask ourselves, because that's something we all know we're going to have. Just the timing is what
00:23:55
Speaker
really is the only difference between someone that's already at hospice and us, right? We don't know the when. Right, right, right. How did that shift? Yeah. How did that shift? Did anything or had you always had a peaceful relationship with death?
00:24:12
Speaker
I wouldn't say I've always had a peaceful relationship with death. I either wasn't thinking about it or I thought of it um more as like
00:24:25
Speaker
like a grief thing because, um, oddly enough, I, I had many when I was young, you know, in my teens, I had many people very close to me die tragically. So my best friend died at 17.
00:24:37
Speaker
i had another, uh, very close friend die tragically. And then an ex-boyfriend died. tragic Like there was like a lot of like, I've, I've experienced a lot of grief and like sudden tragic death.
00:24:48
Speaker
So, I wasn't a nurse yet. I was a young person just feeling those things kind of, right. It's very hard when you're that age to be like, what what's happening? People die. Okay. So I learned at a young age, people die and people can die. Suddenly your life can change in an instant.
00:25:06
Speaker
I learned that. um So that shaped me for a long time of like, and it wasn't like at all had anything to do with nursing, just more about grief and life and Really that like how your life can change so suddenly.
00:25:20
Speaker
um But again, it also a great teacher. I've always been a seeker. So I've always felt connected to something that I can't quite explain that I think has to do with where we go when we die.
00:25:33
Speaker
to me, I think um when we die, we go to a place that feels more like home than, you know, here ever really could. um Now, ah I don't preach that because like, that's just my belief. And I don't, and people don't need to believe what I believe.
00:25:48
Speaker
And I don't think you need to believe that to go back to your home. Like, I don't think it's a thing that you need to like get into. i think it's a place we come from. um So I've always kind of felt that for whatever reason, right? I don't know why.
00:26:03
Speaker
i didn't grow up in a particular religious home or anything. um But my job as a hospice nurse has definitely helped me validate those things. Like the more I watch people die, the more I think what I believe is true.
00:26:18
Speaker
um But again, that's a very personal journey. And I would never try to get anyone else to see that because I think it's a personal thing. So I'm comforted by it, but I also like know that people have to have their own journey.
00:26:35
Speaker
I love what you're sharing because I think that it is important to still share what we believe, whether it is something that somebody else, if it's going to bring some hope to somebody else or not, but everybody's journey is unique.
Peaceful Deaths Without Faith
00:26:48
Speaker
But the fact that finding something that we can hold on to and believe that gives us some sense of peace, whatever that is, I think does help in that process of dying, right?
00:27:01
Speaker
And I think, yes, I think so too. But I also think like the times I have felt most sure that there is something after this or there is something that like is guiding me and loving me and supporting me is in those depths of despair.
00:27:17
Speaker
Like that is when I've been seen. That's when I've seen that the most where it's like suddenly I feel a presence of like, I'm going to be okay. Don't worry this, you know, you're going to be okay. I've got you.
00:27:32
Speaker
That is, that is, and it's because I've allowed myself to feel like the desperation and the pain of life sometimes. um And I do think believing in something can help you die more peacefully, but you don't have to. I've seen plenty of atheists die very peaceful deaths, very, very peaceful deaths. And I've seen plenty of people with very strict religions not die peaceful deaths. So I think it helps to have faith in something, even if it's like,
00:28:00
Speaker
your loved one back to or the ocean or something, you know, just faith. correct But generally speaking, you don't have to. You don't have Yeah, no, I've actually, I interviewed somebody that was atheist and for her, like it was not even that something, it was, she was science-based and for her, the fact that the the the body was going to go back and kind of contribute to whatever was going to happen in the ah soil and this, that itself was hope. So it doesn't have to be a spiritual belief in any way, but something that just brings you some kind of peace, whatever that is.
00:28:37
Speaker
Whether you live in the memories of those that are left behind, whether whatever legacy that you left is, you know, by your actions, whatever, it can help. But, um but yeah, thank you for sharing that.
TikTok Fame and Book Deal
00:28:49
Speaker
Now let's go into how it is that nurse Julie all of a sudden became a TikToker. So share this story with your nieces. I saw your, your little thing of how it was that it started.
00:29:04
Speaker
I know that it's really is crazy. And it shows to me shows how like, I didn't plan any of this truly. I mean, when I would tell people at dinner parties, that i was a hospice nurse. Like I, you don't, you don't get many follow-up questions after that. They're kind of like, cool.
00:29:19
Speaker
See you later. Like, anyway, turn around, talk to somebody else. Like they don't want to talk to you about death and dying. They don't, they don't want to talk to you. So yeah, i never really I never really thought about how people might like to watch videos about it. However, after you know a few years of being a hospice nurse, a couple of my very good friends' parents were dying.
00:29:41
Speaker
And I was like telling them the things that I know, right? And they were asking me questions and I was just sort of rattling things off like I normally would like any day at my job. And they were like, how have we known you for years?
00:29:54
Speaker
And I never knew that like you knew this stuff and that you like do this. I knew you were a hospice nurse, but I just didn't know what, like what that meant. Right. So they started being like, you need to tell people this. You need to start a podcast. You need to do something. Right. And I was like, yeah, I would love to, but like, I don't know how to do that. And I don't know. I don't want to put in the work and like, I don't know.
00:30:16
Speaker
I don't know. Right. I'm 42. I'm 42 now. I was probably like 39 then or something old enough to be like, I don't know. I never even heard of TikTok, right, at the time. But then I went home to see my nieces.
00:30:30
Speaker
I hadn't seen them for like a year and a half because COVID. And when I went back, they were on TikTok all the time and doing dances. And like they were teaching me how to do dances on TikTok. And I thought it was like so funny and like kind of like, oh, TikTok, this is so stupid, you know.
00:30:45
Speaker
But I got on it because they were making videos of us. And I wanted to like watch their TikTok videos. And then when I was watching TikTok, it's very easy to get addicted, P.S. So I don't know if you should start. If you don't, I'm already watching TikTok.
00:31:00
Speaker
ah Even though I'm on it, I don't know if you should go on it because it is addictive. You could go on Instagram. Yeah, I'm on Instagram. I'm on YouTube. If you want to watch stuff, like, yeah.
00:31:11
Speaker
But when I was on it, I was like, oh my God, this is like kind of great. And there's a bunch of people in my age, like talking about like space and like gardening and cooking and things that I really like. So I was like, you know what? Screw it. I'm just going to make a few videos and I'm going to, I'm going to start a TikTok.
00:31:26
Speaker
And I'm telling you, I didn't even try. i had like five videos I wanted to make. I, the lighting is bad. It's dark in my room. I just put up the camera and was like, Hey,
00:31:37
Speaker
um um ah ah my mama do you And the fourth video in, I think, went viral. And overnight, I had 10,000 followers. In a month, I had 100,000. In a year, I had a million.
00:31:48
Speaker
And I got a book deal. mean it just It just happened. It literally felt like it just happened. Organically. Yes. because then And then on the other platforms, cause I have 1.3 million on Facebook. I have almost a 500,000 on Instagram. I have almost 600,000 on YouTube.
00:32:10
Speaker
That stuff also happened organically. Like one person shared a video of mine, like one like famous person, right. Shared a video of mine on their Instagram. I got 20,000 followers on Instagram overnight.
00:32:22
Speaker
Right. So it's like, It truly feels like it just happened. well Like, I think people were more ready to talk about this than we knew. and I think maybe the, the screen kind of gives you like, it doesn't feel as real maybe, you know, cause like I said, at dinner parties, like face to face with me, people are not like wanting to talk about it, but maybe the screen makes it a little less personal. I don't know.
00:32:48
Speaker
But think also, Julie, we got to add, it's not just the topic you're talking about. It's your charisma. You're coming in with the charisma and the love and this joy as well. So it's not only the topic, it's the who you are. People are connecting to you. Cause then it's not only like, Oh, hospice. It's like, Oh, you know, like, it's not like you're like a mortician, even a mortician can come on and talk about it and be joyful. And you'd be like, but you put makeup on somebody that's dead. Like, like, you know, so, but you know, so it's,
00:33:21
Speaker
It's that. it is who you are that people are connecting. It's not just the topic. So yes, you're right. People maybe want to feel more comfortable over a screen, but people are connecting with you. I mean, I i can feel that love that you have and passion that you have for what it is you do and the love. And I i can say this from having had a hospice nurse when my mom died that was um was dying. I love Alexa if she's here.
00:33:50
Speaker
And I hope you don't have an Alexa near you that suddenly starts talking. But Alexa Hudson was that my mom's first hospice nurse. We we ended up having to, she moved out of state when she died.
00:34:02
Speaker
But it was just the most loving, she was the most loving person and man it made us feel so at ease with the what was going to be happening and so loving. And I can just know that that is how patients,
00:34:17
Speaker
and the family feel around you. So you you probably have more of a more of a part of even their own peaceful dying experience than you even think that you do just because of your own energy. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. just have a beautiful energy. Well, if you talk about what, I mean, I really think people will ask me like, well, cause people will now want to know, like, how do you do it? Like, as far as like, how do you get a bunch of followers?
00:34:44
Speaker
And I'm like, first off, I have no idea because it just happened. And second off, I think it might've happened because I really love what I'm talking about. love what I'm talking about. I believe in it so much and I don't take myself too seriously.
00:34:59
Speaker
Never am I ever like, I mean, it's easy to get into your head about like views and this video did good and that video did bad. Right. And like, what can I say to to get the views I can get, I can get like that, you know, I'm human, but I have to always bring it back to no girl, that is not what you're doing this for.
00:35:18
Speaker
And there are some videos that I know are only going to be for a few set people because it's so niche. It's so so specific, but i will do it because it's like, but this is important.
00:35:31
Speaker
And people need to hear this little tiny tidbit of thing. So it's like, i think if you get on the internet and talk about what you love, shows. It shows. and shows Yes, absolutely. yeah There's ah passion behind that. And like you said, it's not about always the number. the The number is amazing because that means that people are resharing and that it's a topic that people want to learn more about.
00:35:56
Speaker
But it's even the fact that even if two people saw it, those two people that... saw that video or read that post, their lives have been forever changed because of that information. So, um and that is, that's a huge ripple effect that it has and in in life. So here we are in this journey, your TikTok, you get a book deal, you write your first book.
00:36:20
Speaker
How is that experience? And then now with the accompanying journal now to go alongside with, tell us about that. I mean, I was resistant to the book idea. i got to tell you, cause I, I'm a reader. I'm actually a reader now. I liked, I go through phases where like I read a lot that I don't read at all. Then I read a lot.
00:36:38
Speaker
But back then I was like, I don't even want to I don't even want to read my book. Why would I write one? like No one's, you know, I don't even want to do it. Um, But then I was, my friends, my friends always helped me because they're like, Julie, not people want, people like to read. There are people who will only want to read. There's people who don't want to go on TikTok. You know what i mean? And I'm like, oh yeah. Different tools for different people. yeah yeah By the way, you've got the best friends that are cheering for you because that's, that is an amazing group of support right there. People that are cheering for you want to see you succeed. So cheers your friends here and well. wonderful.
00:37:14
Speaker
They're just so wonderful. I'm so I'm, I put them on my grateful list every day, literally every single day. Um, but yeah, so that's what, that what's what, what made me agree to it. And then, you know, i mean,
00:37:30
Speaker
this whole stuff. I mean, I can't stress enough about how this whole thing is just so crazy to me because then I get like a, a, a really big book deal, like, which makes me feel almost embarrassed because I'm like, I know there's people who are real authors who like want book deals.
00:37:46
Speaker
Right. And then there's me who's like, I don't even know if I want to write a book and I get to, and not only do I get to, I'm with a large publishing company and that's like blows my mind. It's amazing. I'm so grateful every day.
00:37:59
Speaker
Right. So, Long story short, it was much harder than I thought. Took a lot of work. Barry, it's hard. It is hard to write a book.
00:38:10
Speaker
even when Even when you have a lot of people helping you, it's still like... I can't tell you like how it started to how it ended is like so different. Like there's so many changes. There's so many people working on it.
00:38:24
Speaker
It's crazy. So when you finally, like, it feels like you're birthing this thing, like here, here public, please. I hope you like this. You know, it feels like your little baby. It's so intimate. It's so scary.
00:38:36
Speaker
um And I have the best followers alive because I wrote this book. It became a New York times bestselling book. Thanks to my followers. Really. It's like my followers supported me.
00:38:47
Speaker
And then thankfully, I think because it is a helpful book, it kept selling. Right. I think, think i mean, which I'm so grateful about because I want people to learn about death and dying.
00:39:00
Speaker
And that's what the book is about. It's an educational book. And then I put stories in intertwined so it didn't feel totally like a textbook. But what I really wanted was a real resource.
00:39:11
Speaker
Like you don't have to read this whole book cover to cover. I know you're stressed out and you don't have time and you don't care about my stories right now. You care about how to help your loved one who's dying. So there's like an index in the back where you can like look up specific words to find like where those are in the book. So you can just use it as a resource because that's what I want for people is like to really have it be helpful.
00:39:34
Speaker
And then because it sold well, I love journaling. I'm a big journaler. I think it really helps me process how I'm feeling, what I'm thinking.
00:39:45
Speaker
It gets the truth out of me. So when my publishing company was like, do you want to do like a journal slash workbook to go along with the book? I'm like, oh, yes. I'm gay. i Yes. like i I know it's not for everybody, but like I would read a book like my book and be like, okay, well, now what?
00:40:04
Speaker
Now what do I have to Yes. so that's what the that's where the journal comes in. The journal comes in with like how to actually prepare like literally step-by-step what to do. the existential questions, the fear around death, why, what has been your experience with death?
00:40:22
Speaker
What was it like for you? All those things to explore, which I... you know, girl, i love that stuff. So, yeah and, and, you know, a lot of times too, I love that question that you said, like, what was, has been your experience or what are your
Journaling and Understanding Death
00:40:36
Speaker
beliefs? Cause a lot of times it's, we, it we and when we think back of why it is we even believe what we believe now, then we think back, was like, Oh wait, that's something that happened when I was five.
00:40:46
Speaker
So in my five-year-old's mind, That got stuck there. And then now I think that everything's like that. And then when you realize that and you only realize that when you're journaling and this happens for almost anything, you get stuck in your childlike mind of perception of whatever happened. And then you're like, as an adult, we're like, wait a minute.
00:41:10
Speaker
Where does that belief come from? Yeah. Where yeah you'll think back and you'll be like well, one time my grandpa said that everyone who, you know, just something that, and it in it sticks in your brain and then you just have that.
00:41:23
Speaker
Anyway, so that's the kind of stuff I love. Yeah. And then when you uncover that, yeah. And when you uncover it, then you can re reshift it and reprogram it and then have a whole different relationship with whatever that belief was before. So that is awesome. i love that.
00:41:42
Speaker
And now who is this book for? Is it only for the family, the book and the journal for the family or also for those who are already faced with death?
00:41:54
Speaker
So the general, my general statement to that is always, it's literally for everyone and anyone because we are all going to die. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart, not in a scary, depressing way, but in like a, I'm telling you right now from my experience, the more you talk about this, the less fear you're going to have, the better you will live and the more peacefully you will die period. yes Okay. So it's for everybody.
00:42:21
Speaker
And then with a calf, like, so that's one, but two, ah it's definitely for people who have been diagnosed with something terminal or life limiting. It's definitely for people who are already caring for their loved one who may be dying or just getting older or whatever, right? Just chronically sick, something like that.
00:42:39
Speaker
If you've already had someone die and you have a lot of, maybe it was wonderful, but maybe there was a little traumatic for whatever reason. I've had so many people write to me saying,
00:42:51
Speaker
I've carried around my mother's death for 10 years. I've, you know, I watched this video or I read this part of your book and like it explained everything and it's helped me. Right. So even if it was in your past, I've heard people say that it's helped. So I think if there's, I think it's for everybody, but specifically if you have stuff, quote unquote stuff, you know, around death or you've had a bad experience around it or, um or you're a nurse that wants to get into hospice, you know, this book,
00:43:22
Speaker
um is definitely for you. Definitely. Yeah. That's awesome. And how can people best find it? What would be your preference of where people go and shop for it? We know that can go on Amazon or anything, but what would be your preference of where people shop for it? honestly don't have a preference. I don't have preference. Okay, perfect. Wherever you want. Yeah, wherever you want. I always have a hard time remembering titles of things, even if someone tells me like 50 times.
00:43:50
Speaker
So I would just say you can go to hospicenursejulie.com. And then there's ah all the listings, but it doesn't matter. Like it doesn't affect me either way where where you get it. So wherever you get your books, it'll be around. Perfect. And the link will be in the show notes.
00:44:06
Speaker
Julie, I always like to ask my guests if there's something else you'd like to share with the listeners that I have not asked you yet. I think there was one part of the interview where I thought, oh, I want to, like when you were talking, I was thinking, oh, I want to say this. and then And then I forgot, of course. But there's one thing that I love to say about the whole like, um you know, faith around dying, right? We were talking about like having faith about something or if you're atheist and don't have faith, like how can you still find comfort, yada, yada, right?
00:44:37
Speaker
I've had many experiences that felt spiritual, right? or Or supernatural even as a hospice nurse that has helped me be like, whoa, there is something else going on here, right?
Comfort in Dying Process
00:44:49
Speaker
But that is not the number one thing that makes me not afraid of death. The number one thing that makes me not afraid of death. And don't get me wrong, i so I'm still human. I will still have intermittent fear around death because I'm human, right? But generally speaking, I am not afraid because of the biology of death.
00:45:08
Speaker
the biology of our bodies, how our bodies work, how our body helps us die. It shuts off the hunger and thirst mechanism purposely because it's helping us prepare. It increases our calcium levels and makes us really tired because it's like helping us kind of cocoon into the next life, whatever that may be. Right.
00:45:27
Speaker
And to me, when I first started hospice nursing, that is the most comforting thing. whether, and I don't know what happens after, right? Cause we, I won't know until i have a belief, but I won't know for sure. But the fact that my body will help me do it is a miracle in itself.
00:45:45
Speaker
I just think that's insane that our bodies do that for us. And that is what is the number one thing that keeps me from, or that helps me not feel so afraid because I've seen it happen so many times. And I trust that my body knows what it's doing.
00:46:02
Speaker
Love that. It just makes me think of even birthing or just like, what you know, it's like the fact that we are able to have a child be born into this world and that the child itself also physiology, physically starts preparing to know what it is. it's but It's just amazing. And in that same way, we transition into whatever is next, but the our body will take care of that process.
00:46:29
Speaker
Thank you, Julie, so much. Again, this was Julie McFadden, hospice nurse Julie. For you all, make sure to check her out on her website. Check out her book. And that way you can learn everything you need to learn about how to prepare to that for death.
00:46:44
Speaker
Thank you again, Julie. Thank you.
00:46:52
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
00:47:05
Speaker
If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone,
00:47:18
Speaker
who may need to hear this, please do so. Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
00:47:34
Speaker
And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.