Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Hopepunk to Grimdark—Explore Subgenres of Epic Fantasy
19 Plays4 days ago
Chat with us about epic fantasy subgenres! We name some favorite books as we wander through the byways of noblebright and dark fantasy.
Do you know someone who would enjoy Mythic Mirror? Share the love and send them a link to this episode!
Find your next favorite read at bookshop.org/shop/mary-c-kehoe Buying from our list, helps the show and independent bookstores!
Stay in the know for Mary's upcoming book launch at kickstarter.com/projects/maryckehoe/breaking-inlands
Want a free short story? Get it at mary-c-kehoe.kit.com/e18855812b
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Mythic Mirror Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
What is noble, bright? Does anyone use the term hope punk? And is
00:00:17
Speaker
Welcome to Mythic Mirror, podcast for lovers of myth and fantasy who want to live magical, fulfilling lives. I'm your host, Mary C. Kehoe. And I'm your co-host, Carolina Carter.
00:00:28
Speaker
And we are exploring terms like grimdark, noble bright, dark fantasy, hope punk.
Defining Fantasy Terms: Grimdark, Noble Bright, and Hope Punk
00:00:37
Speaker
Carolina, do you want to give some definitions for these?
00:00:41
Speaker
i do. um I did have to look into some of these because I mostly, apparently, just read noble bright. Apparently that's the only thing I'm interested in. I may dabble in some hope punk. But grimdark is more Grimdark is kind of like, i would call it no hope. You're in a morally compromised world where every there's no real hero.
00:01:05
Speaker
Everyone's betraying everyone. It's violent. It's dark. there's Everybody lives in the moral gray. Yeah. then it's like you come up the scale a little to dark fantasy, which means there may be some like moral end goal, there may be some heroism, but it's still more um like danger. There's some usually some horror elements,
00:01:30
Speaker
um but some heroism too. And then I'll let you take it over for our favorite genre, Noble Brite. Yeah, so I started looking into this because I was trying to figure out subgenres to use for my books and and figuring out what it is that I write within the epic fantasy genre.
00:01:56
Speaker
And It's funny because these terms like noble, bright and hope punk, I never hear unless I'm in a conversation with another writer or I'm reading something about writing. And whereas grim, dark and dark fantasy, I see actually used in marketing.
00:02:13
Speaker
So I'm asking our dear listeners, do you ever use these terms? And what terms do you use for fantasy that isn't dark, but isn't cozy? So Noble Bright is, I think it was started in the academic world of describing the phase of fantasy that's coming out. So we've got grim dark, which you're exactly right. It's the dark and the violent and the morally gray. I like to think of it with the, so you've got the people are grim and the world is dark.
00:02:51
Speaker
And then dark fantasy, you've got the people can be heroic inside of a dark world. And then noble bright leans more into the yeah It's interesting because it still has some darkness because they're still fighting things. But the world in general has more beauty to it. has It's more uplifting. and and the And the characters are all driven by some noble purpose or love, sacrifice, honor, you know, some kind of...
Marketing and Appeal of Grimdark and Villain Stories
00:03:25
Speaker
morality and it doesn't and it's not preachy we we're always against preachy on this podcast but it's heroic and I think a lot of fantasy used to be noble bright and that might be why we don't have a term for it because it's kind of the classic fantasy you've got lord of the rings where the good guys are all trying to do the right thing you know you i mean yes you have flaws and characters who make mistakes but the overall guiding principle of a character is is one of you know a moral north star whereas in dark fantasy or grimdark especially grimdark, but also dark fantasy, it can be more of the moral ambiguity where they they have a goal, but it's not necessarily
00:04:21
Speaker
a selfless one, but you love the character anyway. I was looking at a lot of the books I've read. I did the exact same thing where I was going through my favorite books and they were all either noble, bright or dark fantasy, but with noble characteristics or the, you know, the, the setting is dark fantasy, but it's got the heart of a noble, bright book.
00:04:44
Speaker
Right, and I do feel like, like you said, I've seen a lot of grimdark in marketing for books these days. I do feel like they've had this this moment, especially on BookTok, of just like the main characters are not good. They're not good in like the morally good sense. They're morally gray or just flat out bad guys.
00:05:06
Speaker
um And that that's had this, it's had its moment for a couple years now, and I'm wondering if people are beginning to tire. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I am, as you can see from my bookshelf.
00:05:19
Speaker
Right. I have no grimdark. It's like it's also like the twisted fairy tales where like the rewriting of fairy tales from the villain's perspective and on the villain's side. and And it's it's one of those things that's so fun the first time it comes out. And then by the 25th book that comes out, you're I'm gay. Yeah. Yeah, the deconstruction of the fairy tale is no longer interesting to me. I don't want to know it from the villain's point of view. I think to me, the moment that that specifically jumped the shark is when they did the Cruella movie.
00:05:52
Speaker
you Really? it Yeah, and i know I know it was good. People loved it. But to me, i was like, you're making a puppy killer sympathetic. but she We've gone too far. But she didn't kill the puppies.
00:06:07
Speaker
That was a rumor.
00:06:13
Speaker
That's revisionist history. She killed the animals, the the fur she wore. I know it. Well, she was going to kill all those puppies.
00:06:23
Speaker
Those guys had clubs. They were trying.
00:06:29
Speaker
I'm so easily influenced. ah easily influenced and easily squeamish um I'm ah I'm sorry I'm forgetting the author's name but there's a huge on book talk of the like flipping the scenarios I think this one they're like she wrote one called hooked from hook's perspective oh yeah there was one i think I read the hunchback of Notre Dame one and like And they're set in a modern time, I'm pretty sure.
00:06:59
Speaker
This one is. And like in the first chapter, you have the Frollo character. He's like obviously a young hot priest, duh, murdering just like a random person. And I was like, I don't think this is for me.
00:07:16
Speaker
This is not. This is the opposite of a save the cat moment. You've murdered. Yeah. And it was just a random, i think it was a random um lady of the night. And I'm just like, um, yeah, I'm not for this. I'm not for this character. Am I supposed to be on this character side? It's not. And I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying it's not for me.
00:07:39
Speaker
Exactly. And that's what I was thinking when I was, because I was looking at so many of the books that I like that I was like, oh, maybe this is, you know, this is darker and it will say dark fantasy, but with heroic characters. So I was trying to find some books that are strictly dark fantasy or strictly grimdark and, and,
00:08:01
Speaker
the whole list had when it had the description at the end, it's saying no redemption, you know, it's like yeah morally, morally bleak, violent decay, no
Fantasy Genre Sign-offs and Personal Reading Shifts
00:08:15
Speaker
redemption.
00:08:15
Speaker
So, Yeah, I would love to hear from someone who loves to read books that have no redemption because I want to know why. What do you see in it? Because to me, the darkness is worth it because you see someone triumph over it or transform it or in some way grow and there's hope.
00:08:36
Speaker
So, yeah. why Why the no redemption? like our sign I was thinking of our sign-off, that it's not always easy, but no good story ever is. was I was like, oh, that's a very noble, bright sign-off. What would our sign-off be in these other genres, like grimdark? It's not always easy.
00:08:58
Speaker
It's never worth it, and it will never get better. Thanks for listening. And then like dark fantasy is like, it's never easy. I don't know. his
00:09:12
Speaker
And then Hope Punk is like, sometimes it's hard, but that's okay. Sometimes it's hard, but we'll get through it together. Yes. Which just a see we is fine.
00:09:26
Speaker
Dark fantasy would be, it will never be easy, but it'll be worth it if I'm with you. oh yeah. There we go. ah oh Lord.
00:09:40
Speaker
and i I think I can dabble into the darkness a little more than you. Like, I think I enjoy pain a little more than you do. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but just based on the books I've tried to make you read, and that you're like, am I going to like this? And i'm like,
00:10:00
Speaker
You're going to suffer, but you're going to be happy about it. You know, I will say my tolerance for that has gone way down.
00:10:11
Speaker
ah I think I was way more into those books because some of them I introduced you into. Some of the series that I haven't finished, I got you into. And then I will say I think it happened when I worked for the nonprofit that was –
00:10:30
Speaker
you know, raising awareness about child trafficking and and really taking a hard look at that world and the reality of this world and the darkness that happens in this world, I no longer have interest it's it's hard it like It takes a lot for me to be interested in a book that has that level of of darkness in it. If I'm looking at this, I might as well be looking at the real world and trying to fix it.
00:10:55
Speaker
want to escape and feel better and learn something so that then I can come back to this world and and try to help.
Character and World Dynamics in Fantasy Genres
00:11:02
Speaker
Or yeah something that can fuel you to come back to your life with strength instead of draining you.
00:11:09
Speaker
Yeah, and and and I don't mean that... you know, it has to be all rainbows and starlight. um But, you know, because I think we do grow and we it is cathartic and and we do learn and, yeah, gain strength from going through hard things with characters.
00:11:30
Speaker
it It's just a bit there. For me, there has to be a balance of you know, it's like a scale of of the hardness and the violence versus, you know, beauty and wonder and and people making heroic choices. And if it if if it tends to go a little this way, that's when I i put the book down. Or if I just feel like a too emotionally drained, and I'm like, oh, I'll come back to this later.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and because as I was reading through these and thinking about books, I was also thinking about the world we live in and feeling
00:12:08
Speaker
Feeling in that ah it is feels a bit grim dark and like what do you do about that? how do you How do you bring noble bright into a grim dark world? Which brought me to the question about these genres is, is it the world itself or is it the characters response to the world that makes the genre?
00:12:31
Speaker
That's a good question. I think it's both because I've, because I think a lot of, and I think it is a sliding scale because if you have a very, you know, a world that has a lot of violence,
00:12:49
Speaker
It could be a grim, dark world, but if you have a character that has hope and believes in change and and actually, and through the plot, and the plot supports that that, that something they do does work out and it isn't just breaking them down.
00:13:08
Speaker
That's bringing in the nobility. um So I guess that would be where the dark fantasy is. I think that's where a lot of that sits is where you have a heroic or a good character, or at least someone who learns to care about someone else. You know, in the beginning, they might be a morally gray character, but through the course of the book, they learn to be selfless or they, you know, they learn to care about other people more than themselves, which is what selflessness means.
00:13:35
Speaker
True. I've heard that. Yeah. In the research I was doing, people were calling um the Way of Kings noble bright because of how his characters are so ah driven by some honor or moral code, which I would agree with. But then, you know, you do have...
00:13:57
Speaker
you know, war taking place and, and especially like in the first book with the, I don't know if you've read the way of Kings, but in the first book, it's, it's grim. The yeah the environment that the main character in is in is terrible and it's hopeless.
00:14:14
Speaker
Part of that story is him gaining some kind of hope and some kind of resolve to change things as much as he can. And I guess that's the moment, you know, if it was a grimdark book, that never would happen.
00:14:28
Speaker
And it would just be him surviving. I don't know. I don't read them. You can have the darkness even in a noble bright, but it's just the scales.
00:14:40
Speaker
You see more of the the beauty and wonder and hit here heroism. There it is. aorism Heroism.
00:14:54
Speaker
dealing with City of Brass, because that's obviously in Kingdom of Copper what we've been reading most recently, i was feeling like it was kind of like noble, bright characters set in a dark fantasy world where it's like they do keep trying. They do have these moral compasses inside and these these good intentions, but everything just keeps going wrong.
00:15:19
Speaker
he Would you agree? I would, and I would say...
00:15:27
Speaker
To me, I think, oh and well, that's not true. I feel like Hot Set might be a noble, bright character, too, underneath her, whatever thinks she is. Yeah.
00:15:42
Speaker
see So yeah, because I think the king, the th erstwhile king and Maniza are not noble, bright characters.
00:15:54
Speaker
I think. No. Muntadir is when when push comes to shove. Yeah, and on the other end of the spectrum...
00:16:04
Speaker
you know, the hope punk, I think hope punk reminds me of, um, like an autumnal evening, like what you would want, ah like, uh, Anna Green Gables book, or i haven't read that one.
00:16:21
Speaker
Had you might've, I know one of our sisters has the legends and lattes fantasy book that, or a house by the Cerulean sea. Like,
00:16:33
Speaker
Just what you want ah when you want to curl up and just be cozy. Ah, so you're thinking Hulk Punk is cozy fantasy.
00:16:45
Speaker
da That's, yeah. Or or you like I had a great example of Ted Lasso.
Cozy Fantasy vs. Hope Punk: Stakes and Morality
00:16:53
Speaker
It's like, I really, have you watched that?
00:16:56
Speaker
Not yet. Oh. I know, I need to. I feel like it's a really good example of Hope Punk. He faces great adversities and his act of hope and kindness is a rebellion.
00:17:09
Speaker
It is the strong, hard thing to do time and time again. and He's like the ultimate example of turning the other cheek and you're so like, just get up and fight.
00:17:21
Speaker
Punch him. And then you realize like, well, we're going to have to watch it now. i didn yeah yeah I had all these examples. haven't seen it, so I'm just going That sounds like a perfect example. And that is what I was going to say. The difference, what I see the difference between cozy fantasy and Hope Punk would be the stakes.
00:17:41
Speaker
Hmm. And I don't know that cozy fantasy. Can you have a morally gray cozy fantasy character? A protagonist? Probably not. Let us know what you think in the comments. Yeah.
00:17:55
Speaker
Hang on. Let me think. morally gray who are you thinking of i wasn't do have some no i didn't i'm looking over at my books oh i'm looking at my fish tank it's not helping ah they don't have anything to say they're ignoring me crime and punishment obviously cozy fantasy morally gray lead
00:18:22
Speaker
I mean, because they have stakes, but it never, I mean, because cozy fantasy has enough stakes to keep things interesting, but it's not, you don't, you know, you you don't think anyone's going to die.
00:18:33
Speaker
Would you put the Redwall series in a cozy, the cozy fantasy thing? Or would you, i mean, because it's actually quite dark. Yeah, that's, they, that's an interesting series because it nails cozy, but it also nails violence quite well.
00:18:49
Speaker
I would almost put it in the dark fantasy genre because it is, again, you are getting a real sense of my tolerance levels if that's dark fantasy for me, but just because, you know, it is shockingly violent at times.
00:19:04
Speaker
I think it's, see, and this is where things don't quite all fit into these subgenres, because it's definitely epic fantasy. It's violent, but it doesn't have, like, the atmosphere isn't dark. it's It's a happy world until there's, it's like nature. You know, he did a great job of of capturing that, because it is cozy and happy, and there's beauty going on and then there these moments of of real violence and death and then it and then they move through it.
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah. But it's not like they don't have a tyrant controlling the world. they don't you know There's not this dark control which i I feel like a lot of dark fantasy has. It's like the world itself, the system that the characters have to live in is dark.
Morally Gray Gods in Dark Fantasy
00:19:55
Speaker
Like what's the book? Okay, the book you just gave me that I read With the vampires. What's the name of that one?
00:20:04
Speaker
Something Fallen Dusk. The Serpent to the Ground. Yeah. Something like that. By Carissa Broadbent. Yeah. Almost there. Welcome to the ASMR portion of our podcast where we look up books by Carissa Broadbent.
00:20:25
Speaker
I do hear it.
00:20:31
Speaker
Which you do need to read the Daughter of No World series. We need to read it on here. I'm telling you. I believe you. Mary, I am telling you The Serpent and the Wings of Night.
00:20:44
Speaker
That was close. So in The Serpent and the Wings of Night, you have, ah I would consider that a dark fantasy with only one noble, bright character.
00:20:59
Speaker
wo I think she becomes, i would say she becomes a noble, bright character. But but hymns I think he he would be the one I'd say from the beginning is a noble, bright character.
00:21:16
Speaker
What about his friend? Oh, yeah, yeah. I forgot about her. Mish. Mish is almost a hope punk character placed in a dark fantasy world, is what I would say. That's true.
00:21:28
Speaker
That's true. So we've got a hope punk character, a noble right character, and a dark fantasy character in a dark fantasy world. In a vampire world. Yeah.
00:21:39
Speaker
I love those books. I'm always like, and skip, skip, skip. and but but It's hard to be me. I think that is such a great example of of clearly dark fantasy because the goddess, at least in the first book, I don't know what happens in the rest of the series, but the goddess herself, the one that has created this entire world, thrives on violence.
00:22:06
Speaker
She has created the event that honors her the most is one where lots of vampires die and they're killing each other off.
00:22:18
Speaker
And I was wondering, is this something that the priesthood is just creating and they use her as a way to control people? And this is really like the priesthood doing this. And then she appears at the end.
00:22:31
Speaker
So feels like she's for it. yeah I think she likes it. Yeah. So to me, that's when when the the ultimate powerful being, the goddess of this world, is herself one that thrives on violence. That's a pretty good indicator of of dark fantasy.
00:22:51
Speaker
m And I think that is, ah yeah, just in general, when you have a religious system where the god or goddess of that world is like a morally gray character, I'm always like, okay, we are in the bad place now.
00:23:06
Speaker
Yeah. That's funny. I did feel like that with, I mean, usually you see fallen angels and demons. That's more of like an urban fantasy thing. But I was reading that book thinking, so this is what happens when a fallen angel rules the world.
00:23:22
Speaker
And like, as a goddess, this is what You vampires? This is how get vampires. This is how you get vampires. are You know, and you feel for when you learn your story, like,
00:23:33
Speaker
You know, she sounds like the rest of the gods aren't great either. She escaped. But then this is the world she created. Yeah. It's like all of her pain externalized into a world.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yeah. When the gods just need to go to therapy. It's when you know you're in dark fantasy. I want that to be a title of a book. people yeah When the gods just need to go to therapy.
Exploring Discworld and Upcoming Projects
00:23:57
Speaker
You can't torture people just because you're sad.
00:24:01
Speaker
Exactly. Is it time for the Discworld Delight? I think it is. So far, all guesses are Mort.
00:24:12
Speaker
Ah, that is correct. Even without the names, Mary. Even without the names. They're good. Mm-hmm.
00:24:23
Speaker
When you're good, you're good. For this week's Discworld Delight, are you ready? Victor stared at the card. Thank you, he said vaguely. ah are you a wizard?
00:24:35
Speaker
Silverfish glared at him. Whatever made you think that, he snapped. You're wearing a dress with magic symbols. Magic symbols? Look closely, boy. These are certainly not the credulous symbols of a ridiculous and outmoded belief system. These are the badges of an enlightened craft whose clear new dawn is just... dawning. Magic symbols, he finished, in tones of withering scorn.
00:25:01
Speaker
And it's a robe, not a dress, he added. What is that from?
00:25:11
Speaker
So your book, where would you place your upcoming novel in this situation? I would say Noble Bright for sure. yeah Of course. Yeah, of Uh,
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah, even though the gods are lost, they that was something I actually was focusing on quite a bit for the series. What does it look like to have gods who aren't morally gray?
00:25:37
Speaker
And how do you, what does that world look like? And how do you have... adventure still and threats. One thing that is kind of is easier when you have a gods who have flaws because then they can be part of the external threat.
00:25:58
Speaker
And it feels more legendary, like more like Norse mythology, more like Greek mythology, Roman mythology, Egyptian mythology, where they are.
00:26:09
Speaker
i don't think in any of those, like those are all very flawed gods who are creating chaos and mayhem on the earth with
Comparing Mythological Gods
00:26:17
Speaker
humans. they're not And people still pray to them. they still Sometimes they do...
00:26:21
Speaker
good thing Sometimes they do a bad thing. You never know what you're going to get. and And that does create the stories that we know today that are in our, like, mythos of our mind. Yeah, it's interesting, because I would agree with you that it...
00:26:37
Speaker
It's like the gods for some of these ancient cultures sit in the same kind of place as where nature and the fairy world sat for a lot of Europe and the UK, where it was, it could be bad, it could be good, depends on what you do, and it depends on how they feel. And what mood they're in. Yeah, what mood they're in. And then...
00:27:02
Speaker
and I was thinking, i was I got caught up thinking about the Egyptian gods. So I feel like some of them were someone, I need an Egyptologist on the lines. um So I feel like some of them were, you had good and you had chaotic.
00:27:20
Speaker
Well, yeah, I would say it's sort of im in the same vein as ah like in Norse mythology, you know, you have mischief gods, you have Now Norse is interesting.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah. Norse is interesting because it seems when you actually read the myths, they don't have a lot to do with humans. Whereas Greeks, they're like, they're dealing with humans all the time. Intermingling. Intermingling, you might say. ah the The Norse are mostly just fighting the ice giants.
00:27:50
Speaker
Yeah, they have their own thing going on. And humans are kind of involved sometimes, but yeah, you don't hear about them at all, really. Yeah. And it's true. It's been a long time since I read my big Egyptology book, you know, with the red diamond diamond ruby on it. You know what I'm talking about.
00:28:05
Speaker
You know what I'm talking about. ah Yeah, I feel like they weren't, I don't know. They did have their own thing going on and mostly you, you at the biggest takeaway for me was getting your heart weighed after you died. Yeah.
00:28:21
Speaker
On the scale. Yeah. i Yeah. From what I recall... I mean, the you know, the the Egyptian gods, there's a vast array of them.
00:28:31
Speaker
So you have, you know, and a vast array of time in which humans believed. So you have different versions of these gods. But i do remember some of them being more like Isis.
00:28:47
Speaker
I don't remember her being capricious.
Themes in 'The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue' and Seasonal Inspirations
00:28:50
Speaker
No.
00:28:54
Speaker
It Osiris' brother, right? Because Osiris is the one, his brother tears him apart. Isis finds all the pieces and brings him back to life. Or No, no, that's Osiris.
00:29:06
Speaker
No, no, that's Osiris. You're right. He's the god that, yeah, dies and come back diees and comes back. The dying god myth, one of my favorites. I know. Back to sub-genres.
00:29:19
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sorry. It's all right. We're talking... That's within the genre of our podcast. It's myth. Thank God. So I've only read the beginning of this book, so I don't have an opinion on it so much. I have a guess.
00:29:36
Speaker
Where does The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue sit on this scale? I would say dark fantasy. um But not...
00:29:47
Speaker
For me, in my reading of it, it was dark fantasy in almost a cozy way. where And I do feel that there are very noble, bright moments in it.
00:29:59
Speaker
Just from the beginning, it didn't feel... it's It has this almost sad, poetic atmosphere to it rather than what I consider dark fantasy. Very poetic and achingly lonely.
00:30:19
Speaker
Mm-hmm. almost meditative in its loneliness. I feel like a lot of fantasy right now is the kind that just grips you and doesn't let go, you know, and you go through all these heartbreaking, huge things, especially romanticcy. And I'm not against these things. It keeps you reading. And I've, you know, read plenty of books late into the night because you can't put it down. Um,
00:30:44
Speaker
And so it's interesting to read one that's coming out right now or that came out recently that has that, what you, exactly what you said, this aching loneliness and this, everything about it just has this poetic flow to it.
00:31:00
Speaker
And I really loved every page I read. And then was like, but I'm sad. Yeah.
00:31:09
Speaker
the I think also I was like, I need to read this when I'm happier so that ah I can like shake off the feeling a little bit easier, but maybe not. Maybe I just need to like let it, you know, move through.
00:31:22
Speaker
i mean, that is I have some rules regarding music and books. um
00:31:29
Speaker
I'm not allowed to listen to Lana Del Rey in the winter. Hmm.
00:31:35
Speaker
some Some are self-imposed. Some are others around me have given me these rules. ah They can't bear to live with me I get too down. Although sometimes it's fun to like dig into it just like on a dark winter's night reading a dark, sad tale.
00:31:54
Speaker
Yeah. I like to read the, you know, the Winter's Night trilogy when it's dark and cold. But again, that has um hope and change and redemption and love and sacrifice. So again, Mary's leaning toward the noble bright, even in her dark Russian winter.
00:32:12
Speaker
We just need it. here We do. So speaking of things we need, Mary, what was your spark of the week?
00:32:21
Speaker
had one Oh, yeah. My spark of the week was seeing the bluebirds come home. We've got robins and bluebirds that come every year. How about you? Very similarly, um going on walks and seeing the daffodils come up and all the little spring flowers spring through and feeling the breezes and the winds that are just a little bit warmer.
00:32:44
Speaker
Nice. Yay. Springtime. Springing. Which is perfect because we are right at Spring Equinox. Noble Bright on Spring Equinox.
Podcast Community Engagement and Closing
00:32:57
Speaker
Thank you for chatting with us about all the subgenres. No, we only talked about a few subgenres. but We'll explore more later.
00:33:09
Speaker
And for our Noble Bright ending. o wait. First, before we do that. Yeah. If you're enjoying this show. Give it a like. Give it a share. really helps other people find it. And we would love to grow our community of myth and fantasy lovers.
00:33:28
Speaker
And if you haven't yet, download Mary's short story, Rueful But Unruled, on her website, maryckeyho.com, as we prepare for the launch of her first novel. Oh, or did you want me to say the title?
00:33:39
Speaker
First novel, Breaking Inlands. ah And if you want to be a part of the launch, click the link below to join the Kickstarter. And we are so grateful to be spiraling through this universe with all of you. It's not always easy, but no good story ever is.