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00:00:01
SAG Strike
27 Plays1 year ago
We continue our talk about the ongoing strikes
https://variety.com/2023/biz/news/sag-aftra-strike-authorization-vote-writers-1235633850/
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/07/actors-strike-what-work-is-isnt-allowed
https://time.com/6294212/sag-aftra-actors-strike/#:~:text=Among%20SAG%2DAFTRA's%20demands%20are,reruns%2C%20are%20no%20longer%20reliable.
https://deadline.com/2023/07/sag-strike-actors-waiver-rebel-wilson-movie-interim-agreement-1235439316/
https://www.wrapbook.com/blog/essential-guide-sag-rates#:~:text=The%20SAG%20day%20rate%20is%20%24379%2C%20while%20the%20SAG%20weekly,background%20actors%20are%20not%20covered.
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Transcript
Introduction and Actors' Strike Overview
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome. For real all right welcome back to fright central I'm doc back here again with my co host tech- we're gonna talk about the- our continuation of our- strike.
00:00:38
Speaker
We're gonna talk about the actors strike now a little different than our normal covered content Not really like I guess horror based but I mean it's definitely relevant because We're not going to see any more horror content until all this bullshit is resolved So it's really the only thing to talk about
00:01:01
Speaker
Well, technically, we'll get into it. But a lot of horror movies, we still can. We'll still be coming out. But I'll get into that. I'll mention this.
SAG-AFTRA Formation and Strike Vote
00:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, so the SAG and AFTRA are used to be two separate organizations, the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. And they've combined a few years back to. Yeah, I was confused by that because I didn't realize that.
00:01:29
Speaker
I was like, I knew SAG. I was like, what is SAG-AFTRA? So I'm just going to refer to them as the actors. I think that's the best way or SAG. But it represents approximately 160,000 actors, announcers, broadcast journalists, dancers, and DJs, news writers, news editors, program hosts, puppeteers, recording artists, singers, stunt performers, voiceover artists, and other media professionals.
00:01:58
Speaker
So that covers all that. So according to the union, about 65,000 of those members actually cast ballots. So about 48% of eligible voters and of the people who voted, 98% voted in favor of the strike.
00:02:16
Speaker
yeah so about the exact same amount as the writers which was what 97.8 so yeah yeah this is like 97.9 yeah yeah both of them i've like seen like right like actual members casting ballots so like no i think the last strike the uh that the actors went on only about 25 had voted and that was in 1980 correct
00:02:44
Speaker
I believe so. Yeah. So this time it was it's a lot more people were.
Contract Negotiations and Historical Context
00:02:51
Speaker
And just to mention, though, they do a renegotiation you were saying every two years or every five years. It's every three years. Every one was May. It's like May. Well, the writers was May 1st.
00:03:11
Speaker
to 2020 to May 1st, 2023. That's why they went up. They usually vote ahead of time if they haven't come to an agreement of if they approve of the strike and if they don't get it coming to approval by that deadline.
00:03:25
Speaker
the ones that the contract ends the next day, they're on strike. And the last time SAG renewed was in May of 2020. And at that point, I believe 78% voted in favor of the contract negotiation. Yeah, but only about 20. I think that's what I meant. Only about 25% of the people even had voted on that one.
00:03:53
Speaker
Well, I mean, but that was their choice, correct? Yeah, it's your choice to cast the vote. So if you don't cast, you don't really get a choice. Well, I would just assume that the ones that didn't vote didn't vote because they were content. Yeah, I would assume so. Yeah.
00:04:14
Speaker
or they were content with what was put forward anyway.
SAG Leadership and Strike Issues
00:04:20
Speaker
And the former president that negotiated that before the current president, which is now Fran Drescher, was a man, Ken Howard, yeah, Ken Howard, I believe, was president of SAG in 2000. I'm not sure what, yeah, Ken Howard.
00:04:42
Speaker
I'm not sure when Fran Drescher took over as president. Was that just recent in 2023? Oh, in 2021? 2021, she became SAGS president. They, I guess, wanted to implement someone that everybody would fear to listen to. That's not necessarily...
00:05:06
Speaker
She's also like a I mean a she is more well known than the previous one, but yeah Yeah, I I I don't know Ken Howard
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know who he is. I mean, I know who he is and stuff like that. And like I've I've seen him in things before, but I don't know him as well as I do Fran Drescher because, you know, I she could be like a mile down the street and she speaks and I can hear the shrieking like through solid objects. So she is also more known as a more recent years as an activist.
00:05:46
Speaker
She has co-founded nonprofit organizations for cancer, helped advocate for women's health issues, and helped Congress pass the 2007 Gynecological Cancer Education Awareness Act. She's been outspoken about the abortion in the post-war world. She's a significant figure all around with more than just the Actors Guild.
00:06:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, this is her helping the actors out now to get what they deserve and stuff.
00:06:27
Speaker
I just find her incredibly obnoxiously annoying, just full disclosure. I'm just saying, I mean, it's not necessarily, I mean, I was joking, but I was also being serious by saying that, you know, they may have put her in as president because she can be so intimidating. That raspy voice, that yelling she's been
00:06:54
Speaker
really fucking stoked up recently I saw two interviews with her recently I only got through one which was on PBS and like even they were like trying to calm her down because she was getting like so fucking amped up and it was just like her piercing voice like in your soul like god well uh she campaigned on ending what she called a dysfunctional division within the union
00:07:22
Speaker
She campaigned against Matthew Modine, who was running against her in 2021. I mean, Modine. It seems like since she's taken the helm, she's worked to smooth over a lot of the riffs between some skeptical voices, including noted screenwriting David Steinman. So apparently everybody in
00:07:50
Speaker
SAG who voted for her, I mean, clearly approve of everything that she's doing. Or are afraid to oppose her. You could just vote against her then. People voted her in. You know what I mean? But they also could fear her wrath is what I'm saying.
00:08:15
Speaker
I guess. You guessed right. Unfortunately, you win nothing.
Actors' Health and Financial Challenges
00:08:22
Speaker
So a lot of the what the actors were striking over were a lot of the same issues that the writers, you know, was as well. One of the big issues was that is obviously pay like only 12.7%
00:08:41
Speaker
of SAG-AFTRA members even qualify for the Union's health plan. That's significant. That's 26,000 a year is what you have to make to qualify. The fact that only 12.7 even make that much. That's qualify, not necessarily being accepted.
00:09:08
Speaker
No, if you qualify, if you make $26,000 a year, you get accepted for the health plan. Oh, okay. I thought that was just to be able to fill out the qualifying application. No, you can end tag and not qualify for health insurance. Yeah, no, I was saying of that 12% that qualify,
00:09:38
Speaker
Not all of that 12% are actually getting the benefits. To my understanding, some of them that qualify, you still have to fill out an application to get those benefits, and some of them have been denied, apparently.
00:09:59
Speaker
I'm not gonna get into a whole thing about the benefits. I'm assuming most of that qualify will receive them, but apparently there was something about some of them that qualified that were eligible to receive them and ended up getting rejected. I could later post a link that you could put up on the site when you post the cast, but it was just something that was interesting to me.
00:10:26
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, also, like, members that also qualify could get their own health and plan if they don't want. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you have the Forable Healthcare Act and
00:10:36
Speaker
other things like that that you can do. 92% of active members make less than $80,000 a year. And 86% don't even have health insurance. We could talk about health insurance for hours and that will lead us down a whole different road.
00:10:58
Speaker
I'm very passionate about so I don't want to get too into that but yeah I mean it's sort of ridiculous when you think about because a lot of actors will do their own stunts and things like that so having health care and some kind of safety net would be pretty beneficial for them I mean
00:11:20
Speaker
especially when you think about an actor like Bob Odenkirk who collapsed and whose heart stopped beating for 18 minutes on set of Better Call Saul you would think like I hope he qualified because you know otherwise
00:11:40
Speaker
Yeah, you know you but we're talking about some pretty scary shit, you know, I mean like Acting being in theater, you know being on the big screen. I mean we've all seen what that can do to people's psychological well-being I would just quickly cite like Philip Seymour Hoffman or Heath Ledger after he took his life and
00:12:06
Speaker
You know, so I mean acting isn't all just like fame and glory. I mean, there's a lot of actors that absolutely despise the fame and would rather just act and do their thing. But, you know, I'm just saying like a lot of people think that like, you know, actors are these like gods that all make tons of money and that could not be further from the truth.
00:12:32
Speaker
I mean, there's the wheat and then there's just sort of everybody else's wheat. Yeah, yeah. So they broke it down like the average pay and this like over across average, like from the lowest to the highest, just the medium pay or average pay is, I guess not the medium pay, but the average pay is about $28 an hour.
00:12:59
Speaker
And I guess if you're living in LA, that's not very much. That's what I make working at FedEx. Yeah. You know what I mean? Nobody sees me on TV. You know what I mean? Yeah, but I mean, they probably work harder than a lot of them. Well, not necessarily because they can work up to like 16 hour days. I mean, sure they get overtime.
00:13:25
Speaker
but I can't work more than 14 hours in a day. There's walls around that. It kind of goes back to what I was trying to point out about the writer strike and if there was any kind of safeguards for the writers, are there any kind of safeguards for the actors? Like that basically say, you know,
00:13:51
Speaker
If there's a deadline on something where, you know, the production company is expecting that material, like, do the actors like have a thing where they can't work more than a certain period of time at once? Or is it like the same thing with the writers where, you know, you got to act till you drop, you need to get that out there? Yeah, I think actors have a little bit more protection. I know like they get they get overtime pay over so like,
00:14:21
Speaker
anything over like the certain amount of hours it's probably like you know they have to take breaks and of course if the director is working then the actors were so if the the actors not going to be working if the director isn't working and the sound people aren't there with the grips you know because they're obviously going to be actively shooting so I guess
00:14:43
Speaker
For the actor to be working you have to have several other components that are available at the same time So yeah, you don't studios don't want to pay a lot of overtime. So they will like I was reading something I was watching an interview recently with the the star of Reacher he was doing mo cap work for the Michael Bay produced Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and
00:15:12
Speaker
they would be the last ones to leave because they weren't covered under the rules. So like they would have to get all the other people out first and they'd have to sit around for hours waiting because they didn't get overtime pay. And while everyone else would have gotten overtime pay, but they were like rushing them all set. They were like, Oh, you got to get off the clock. We don't want to fall in overtime. And they were the last ones to leave because they didn't get paid overtime.
00:15:40
Speaker
It would have been cool if the directors didn't go on strike, but only Michael Bay went on strike and they were just like, you could just stay on strike. We'll forget about you. Yeah. So for television, an actor who works on the television for one week gets paid a minimum of $3,756. Now you have to pay taxes commission.
00:16:04
Speaker
uh, an agent, a manager, a lawyer that negotiates your deals. So like right away. Wait, so that's actually lower than the writers who were making 5,000 a week, right? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, but I think the residuals for actors are, are higher.
00:16:23
Speaker
So they're going to, in the end, compensation from royalties and whatnot, they'll end up making more. As an actor, you'll probably make more than a writer. If you get to a certain point, obviously, there are probably writers that make more than actors.
00:16:42
Speaker
Unless what you did was a total shit thing and it never got aired again Writers are more likely to work like, you know, you'll have the scripts and then you know for for a movie then maybe they'll bring you to set and you but you won't get Paid, you know consistently when you're an actor you'll get paid, you know the entire time you're on set so yeah
International Filming and Union Rules
00:17:09
Speaker
Yeah, so you probably work a little bit longer as an actor than you would as a writer. But yeah, so with that minimum pay, like it's really about 35% less, give or take. So when it was 40% less for writers, after all their fees, it's about 35% less. So yeah, they're again, they're making fucking nothing. Now there are when we talk about other
00:17:37
Speaker
shoots in other countries like a lot of actors like there's still stuff like shooting in other countries because they have their own unions like equity in the UK and
00:17:47
Speaker
ACTRA in Canada and a SAG actor can't like kind of sneak off and do that like they're bound by their like SAG affiliation so There's no like yo, I'm gonna dip off to Canada for a few months or something like that. Like not unless they have dual They would have to have dual unions, you know some there's some UK actors that have a
00:18:16
Speaker
sag ones and like they can they can those actors can go on strike but they can also you know in in unison but um they can also you know continue to work under their own union as well and there might be kind of it's probably frowned upon now to do that too you're probably going to not be very popular with your fellow sag actors if you kind of
00:18:43
Speaker
Well, yeah, but um some of the equity they've come out and said like Like if you know you can get fined and fired if you like refuse to work because you fall under their union Gotcha, so they're kind of caught well I mean I guess I guess that gives them some protection from like, you know people like in sag being like yo, you're a scab or you know, whatever you feel like yo, I
00:19:11
Speaker
Bro, I'm contractually obligated under, you know, both of the organizations I'm involved in. So yeah, that would give them like some protection, I guess. That's why House of Dragons is still filming right now, because most of those actors are all, yeah, they're all fall under the equity, you know, their own union in the UK. So that didn't stop production.
00:19:38
Speaker
Broadway actors are also fall under actors' equity, so that's a different one as well. So some of the things that they are allowed to do are, let's see, they're not allowed singing, dancing, performing stunts, or even auditioning for films and TV shows. Puppeteering, right? Puppeteering as well, yes. But union work in commercials,
00:20:07
Speaker
music videos, educational videos, or corporate videos, and news broadcasts are permitted. You can work on morning shows, talk shows, soap operas,
00:20:22
Speaker
Variety shows reality shows game shows and sports programs are as well are allowed as well because they fall under a separate contract commercial revenue is definitely going to help but I mean it's their voice mainly well I mean some of them you'll see them in the commercial but like you know the only actors are gonna be getting hired to do commercial work are gonna be
00:20:46
Speaker
Notable actors, you know what I mean? Like, you know, it's gonna it's gonna be household names and stuff like that Yeah, so and that and that's but you're obviously not gonna see like Late night shows, you know with actors on it because that shut down because of the writers strike. Yeah Yeah Yeah
00:21:09
Speaker
I think voiceover work for animated projects, video games, and dubbing is more of a gray area. The SAG indicators indicate that these sorts of contracts may be permitted as well, but say union members can't move forward with such projects without approval from the SAG National Board.
Independent Studios and Strike Work
00:21:31
Speaker
This is where the some actors are allowed to work on things like a lot like so the actors are on strike with the major studios. So they can get waivers with other independent studios. But these waivers are agreements for those independent contracts to pay
00:21:54
Speaker
the actors and residuals and everything on what they are currently negotiating with the major studios. So what the major studios are refusing to do, these independent studios are agreeing to those terms. And so then they're allowed to continue filming. And that's why major actors and stuff are allowed to do independent projects like with A24, Neon. And that's called entering into an interim agreement? Yes.
00:22:24
Speaker
Apparently that is frowned upon and some actors have been pulling out after initially saying they were going to do it.
00:22:35
Speaker
It all depends. Some actors will pull out in solidarity. It's not necessarily frowned upon because, again, they're not striking against these independent studios. The independent studios are not people that are actively involved in the negotiations. These studios are independent.
00:23:03
Speaker
And that's what, yeah, okay. So they're not part of like the whole like evil empire type thing. Yeah. So, but there is like, uh, certain, uh, criteria. Uh, she, her production had gotten approved for one of these intern ones, but it had, it was already pre sold to Amazon. So she decided to, you know, in solidarity to stop production on that. Cause that would be unfair. Uh, so yeah, I guess anything that's pre sold, they're not, they're going to want to not do those as well.
00:23:34
Speaker
Um, but yeah, the, uh, anything else that's like pretty much independent, they can continue doing it as long as they, as long as these companies have, uh, approved that to work with like, Hey, okay. This is what you are negotiating right now with them. We agreed to pay that. And it's like, okay.
00:23:52
Speaker
Why can these independent producers and companies who don't make nearly as much money as these big companies, how come they can afford to give these actors what they want, but these giant studios can't fucking come to those agreements when you've got all these executives making 25 million a year for these companies? Yeah, I mean, that's a valid point.
00:24:21
Speaker
I guess for me the one thing that I don't know I can't completely get my head around is
00:24:34
Speaker
the convenience of the timing of the sag strike with the parallel to the writer's strike. I guess I feel as though if the writers had not launched the strike that the actors who haven't struck since 1980 probably would not have joined.
00:25:02
Speaker
I'm not saying necessarily that there's anything wrong with that because if anything that might greater benefit the writers to have two organizations coming together in solidarity to change things. But on the other hand, it's also at least could be considered
00:25:32
Speaker
opportunistic to take advantage of one strike so i mean all i'm saying is is i have two trains of thoughts on this one is i see them as being a bit opportunistic
00:25:48
Speaker
and maybe taking advantage of the conflict between the writers and the production companies but then on the other hand I could see it as even though they recently renegotiated terms somewhat
00:26:10
Speaker
I mean, obviously, the vast majority of people that did vote voted for that, I think I said 78%. But at the same time, you know, I guess it could be benefiting the whole thing to do it in units. That would just
00:26:33
Speaker
you would think at least that would put more pressure on the production companies to say, all right, you know, we're going to, you know, at least come to the table and find some kind of common ground, which
00:26:53
Speaker
to my understanding, the plan was for the companies to start negotiating with the writers first and then move on to the actors second, which makes sense.
AI Technology's Threat to Acting
00:27:06
Speaker
Yes, because the writers was made, I believe the actors contract was June and the same thing with directors, they had their own separate months. So yes, they do go to each individual ones separately, but there's a lot of terms that like,
00:27:23
Speaker
like with AI as well like if they're like just because the writers well I mean the writers have gone on strike before and the actors haven't so I don't really see that as taken advantage of the writers going on strike but if the writers didn't go on strike and there were still like things in like the the deal with the actors and it's not just about raises again it's about AI and one of the big things was about scanning background actors
00:27:50
Speaker
and then using them in perpetuity and not paying for them. But again, this has not been widely implemented yet. So we are still at like kind of the hypothetical fearing for the future stage. I'm not saying that like- No, absolutely not. They've already, actors have already come out and they've already been scanning actors on set.
00:28:33
Speaker
okay like you get day paid so like if they use they scan you once they can be like alright you're done and then you can show up later on in a show or something like that and with your background you're like hey wait a second I was never there so I'm not getting paid for that day now and not only that
00:28:40
Speaker
Yes, no!
00:28:50
Speaker
you're screwing up the bottom line, you know, the people that all work in like, you know, the hairdressers, costume designers and all that because you don't have to pay them to come in. Yeah, no, that that's separate. I'm not. Yeah, I'm not saying anything. I'm not saying anything on them, but.
00:29:08
Speaker
To my understanding that there were a few high profile issues with actors in AI and I know several of the actors sued because of that.
00:29:23
Speaker
And to my understanding, for the most part, they were successful in their lawsuits and, you know, basically getting, um, basically getting their compensation back because there are going to, I mean, but so I guess they should not have to be suing.
00:29:49
Speaker
Like they should not have to be taking legal action because that's going to cost them too. They're going to have to pay for legal representation. And I guess the studios could be doing like some kind of formula sort of like in Fight Club where like if A doesn't equal B and the number of lawsuits we're going to see from people burned alive in our fault car converters.
00:30:17
Speaker
they're going to be doing that algorithm by saying like well if we use an AI scan and that actor then sues us where will we come out like with the money we have to pay out to the lawsuit would it be worth doing that and dicking the actor over based on what we'll have to with our other high-priced you know legal team that the production companies
00:30:47
Speaker
you know have like representing them because they always have like a fucking team of lawyers from the best firms so they I'm not saying that I know for certain that they're doing that but like that definitely and yeah I mean that would bode well for the actors
00:31:06
Speaker
in terms of like you know them saying like yo this is fucked up like we need to do something about that because that is something that the companies could start doing in mass they could say you know like yeah all right we're gonna do this anyway and we feel that like you know the lawyers we have on retainer
00:31:26
Speaker
And what will have to pay out when you successfully sue us is less, and we're still making more based on to the AI. And yeah, I mean, yeah, it's sort of a vicious cycle. Like main actors that like can get scanned and like, yeah, I understand that the use of of scanning somebody
00:31:49
Speaker
and using them for like, in action sequences or something where like, yeah, like a stunt or something like that, like that's where you want to make them look younger or something like that. Because AI benefits there. Yeah. And that's fine. But like, if you're just gonna like, scan somebody
00:32:11
Speaker
just as like a background actor and then use them later on as a background actor again it's kind of like wait why wouldn't you just bring that person back in because now they're not getting paid for that and they've only gotten paid for that one day because background actors don't get residuals on movies and everything too so they kind of rely on that day rate.
00:32:29
Speaker
do you know how many instances that there has been do you have any of the numbers as to how many um uh at least like uh
00:32:43
Speaker
know the events there has been of like some kind of like widespread AI case where this has happened like has who are the people basically that have come out and said like yo you fucked me over and basically put me in the movie I wasn't evil even in with my AI like this like are there any like you know anything you can sight off the top of your head that you're aware of
00:33:13
Speaker
Well I know like it's been a lot of background actors so I don't have their names or know them off the top of my head but a lot of them from major shows like the one when you say background actors what do you mean by that?
00:33:26
Speaker
Exactly.
00:33:46
Speaker
you know, to make it like a living thing. Otherwise you don't have those people. It's just two people in a fucking room, you know. And, and it's just like a background actor that's there, but not there at all. And they're getting nothing for it because they're there, but yet they're not actually there because it's, I scanned and it's now like, yeah, it's all like, I understand it. And like, like,
00:34:15
Speaker
I know they've used like CG like backgrounds to flesh out like armies and stuff in like, you know, Lord of the Rings or something like that. That's just scanning somebody and then putting them in the background like walking by or something like that. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, the CGI when you could have hired somebody to fucking come in.
00:34:35
Speaker
Or do you think Ramos' family got any compensation where they scanned him in there to be the ghost in Ghostbusters? Yeah, you do have to get permission from the estate to do it. Yeah. But also his son was the director. So that kind of helps. Yeah. It definitely doesn't hurt. I believe not only do they get permission for that, but I believe they do get some benefit as well.
00:35:05
Speaker
They had to ask Christopher Reeves recently for his family or his estate for his appearance recently in The Flash. I know they had to do it for... Wait, they went all the way up to the top of the Washington Monument to ask Christopher Reeves for permission? Top of the Washington Monument? Yeah, has he been placed up there?
00:35:31
Speaker
Sorry, it was and I couldn't resist you mentioned Christopher Reeves. It was an Onion article that Jamie had showed me years back and the title was Christopher Reeves placed on top of Washington Monument and he was just up there in his chair and it was basically like he was living there.
00:35:55
Speaker
that
00:36:10
Speaker
Uh, so yeah, there's, there are instances of people being like, you know, um, and they're not receiving anything for that. I know. I'm saying there, there, there are actors that have been put in that they do have to ask permission from the state to do it. And I believe the state gets, it gets some pay.
00:36:27
Speaker
from that, that's a different thing. And you're talking about deceased actors in this. Yes, yes. In this instance, deceased actors. But I'm talking about the living actors. Has there been cases where currently living, wanting to work actors have been CGI'd and put into a movie?
00:36:54
Speaker
Where they don't necessarily have any lines, but like you see them substantially mute throughout the film and then those actors have received like no compensation for their likeness being in the film. Well, a lot of actors have come out and said they have been scanned.
00:37:14
Speaker
and you know for that for that shoot but they don't know if they've shown up like later on yet or if like how long that like the company plans on holding on to that because that's what the companies want that's part of the AI deals they want to be able to use a scanned actor in perpetuity they've come out and said that
00:37:32
Speaker
So this isn't like a hey, we just want to use you for one I was saying I was saying it was a hypothetical because I mean I haven't seen this like at least yet widely implemented but From what you're saying and from what I've been reading. It sounds like the companies are kind of
00:37:55
Speaker
testing the waters, so to speak. To speak how far we could push it. And be like, yeah, we just want to use you in perpetuity and not have to pay you. Yeah, and then if you do decide to take legal action, we feel that we will have gotten our money's worth, and we can just pay you off or whatever, and then the wheel just keeps on turning. And if that's going to start happening, then
00:38:26
Speaker
that's fucked but i guess it would just be like hey it's a brave new world um yeah uh you remember the um the first final destination movie um the lead actor in that whose name is uh is passing me right now but
00:38:43
Speaker
in the fifth one the final the final that's the first final destination yeah i actually just watched all the final destination okay well you know you know where it turns out the last one is actually a prequel to the first one and that and they because they end up on the plane and you see what's the fifth one the one with the nascar
00:39:05
Speaker
Um, I watched them all together. So I'm a little bit bored. The third one was with the, um, all, all the different, uh, killer on the roller coaster. But yeah, I just watched them. I think the fifth one was like really terrible. I think that was the one on the bridge. I think that was the one that ends and you, and if you find out that that was actually a prequel to the first one all
AI and Unauthorized Image Use
00:39:30
Speaker
the time. Well, that after he shows up in that, and that,
00:39:33
Speaker
bit and he just came out recently he said when he saw that movie he didn't know he was they were going to use footage of him for that movie and he didn't get paid for it at all so he only got the original rate you know and everything for the first movie and then they used footage of him for the new one without you know compensating I mean he didn't make any money off of like the box office or anything because he got paid that one time bet
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah, he just in it like extremely briefly, but their argument is it doesn't matter. Even if like you just show my image like you should at least get permission from the actor, even if you're going to be on screen. Yeah, no, I agree with that. He doesn't get a day rate. He doesn't get any residuals or anything off that movie. And he's in that movie. And yet he they didn't even ask him.
00:40:25
Speaker
If they could use that since they own the rights to the first movie they just put them in there and where it's just like
00:40:31
Speaker
hey, we're going to give you like, you know, we'll give you a fucking small one. And that wasn't in the, and they didn't have that in the contract or they had the right to do that. Like isn't there some like, wouldn't there be some language in some contracts where if the studio owns the rights to it, they could like technically put someone in there without even asking their permission because they own that content.
00:41:00
Speaker
technically, yes, because then that's why he they were able to get away with it because they had ran into the contract that they were able to use his likeness for future things. And when he said when he came out and was talking about this, he was like, I thought that just meant promotional material and commercials and stuff. He was like, I didn't know that was going to mean a whole other motherfucker share rent and read the fine print. Yeah. Like, you know, I mean, you got to read the label, say it large.
00:41:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's still a shady tactic to... It's a shady tactic, but it apparently is not illegal, so... It wasn't a scam thing either, but I'm just saying that like, they've already been, you know, studios are fucking shady, let's just pay everyone what they get and fucking, you know, that they deserve and we can all be fucking happy.
00:41:53
Speaker
But we don't know if this is going to happen en masse. Obviously, the studios are, like I said, testing the waters to see sort of what they can get away with. But like, it is sort of a hypothetical. Well, it is and it isn't because they are trying these things. But it has not been happening.
00:42:26
Speaker
but I guess I could argue that the actors are definitely right to fear that now would I have decided to strike based on what could happen in the future that is sort of like my thing where like I'm just not sure like I think if it they started seeing it happen like
00:42:48
Speaker
has not been happening in mass.
00:42:55
Speaker
constant like where it was just like a regular current before something happened. Yeah well that is the thing but it has not my point is I totally hear what you're saying and I totally think that their their fears are justified but still and the fact that they came out and the studios were like
00:43:19
Speaker
Yeah, but the fact the studio came out and said, hey, we want your fucking likeness to use in perpetuity. You wouldn't be like, oh, well, it hasn't happened yet. So I'm not going to go on a strike. No, you'd be like, no, fuck you. You can't do that. I'm going on strike. Yeah, I would. I would. I would. I would personally have my agent negotiate on my behalf, saying that, like, yeah, you can't use my likeness
00:43:48
Speaker
at least for any future roles I was gonna get without at least asking my permission and at the point that you asked my permission then through my agent I would maybe want to either say yeah sure you can do that I don't mind I don't require anything or you can use it but I would like some residuals from that
00:44:15
Speaker
Well, that's the thing is residuals as part of this, you know, and an increased, uh, you know, pay over the next three years as well, you know, a certain percentage to help, uh, Hey, you know, with the inflation and everything like
Complexity of Strike Issues
00:44:28
Speaker
that. So again, it's not just one thing. It's a number of different things that they're going on. This is complicated shit. Like I'm not arguing that. I don't think anybody's arguing it. It's a lot of complicated shit. And you figure right now in the interim,
00:44:46
Speaker
all the production companies have their legal teams and they are going through everything and they are probably going to be using this downtime to see what they can get away with in the future how they can basically profit as much as they can with the new technology and pay out as little as possible so yeah I understand why the actors are doing this
00:45:16
Speaker
I guess my point was, and maybe it's completely irrelevant, I think my point was I do not think that the actors would be striking right now if the writers had not already mounted a significant resistance, if you will. That's just my feeling to
00:45:38
Speaker
I do not believe the actors would have just gone out and struck. Or maybe if the writers were at work and the directors were at work, it's also possible if the actors started murmuring Strike and everything else was in place and running fine,
00:45:58
Speaker
maybe the production companies at that point would have been more apt to just deal with the writer strike, directly negotiate and then renegotiate a deal without them actually having to go on strike. That could have happened. I don't know, I just think there's a lot more involved than some of like, like, yes, some of the basic things are the same between the two.
Celebrity Support and Financial Struggles
00:46:22
Speaker
And maybe if like it was just that, like,
00:46:25
Speaker
and they came to an agreement. I feel like if they came to an agreement with the writers, they probably would have came to an agreement with SAG. Yes, that's true. But if they came to an agreement with the writers, then there's all these other problems that SAG has that wouldn't even affect the writers at all.
00:46:48
Speaker
There's so many, like a lot, I don't know if you've seen a lot of the, since you're not on social media really, a lot of the actors have come out and posted like the residual checks that are like pennies, you know, like every month. And like some of these are big actors that are like, yeah, they're like, yeah, residuals don't, don't make a big deal for me. But like, if this is what they're paying me, who's like the star or co-star of a show, then like, then imagine what they're paying everyone else.
00:47:16
Speaker
I do not overwhelmingly buy the assertion that the big time actors are doing this all in the interest of helping the little guy either. I don't believe that.
00:47:39
Speaker
SAG foundation were recently like I think the rock was the first person to donate a seven figure some to the foundation to hide it I did I did I did hear all these other celebrities are coming out and they're donating you know millions of dollars I believe Matthew McConaughey might have been involved in that too Matt Damon yeah like Matt Damon
00:48:05
Speaker
Ben Affleck I believe Leonardo DiCaprio like they've all like Meryl Streep they've a lot of these Bay actors they're like yeah we can't like yes we make millions of dollars but like we can't you know do our job without these crucial people in the background so yeah I think yeah more in solidarity with them yeah no I get that I'm just saying I don't think all of them are in it for that
00:48:32
Speaker
I don't know maybe I'm just trying to bring out the worst in people but like I don't think everybody but you know
00:48:42
Speaker
Who knows? The pandemic I think had a significant weight on everybody here because during the pandemic the studios were panicked because everything was shut down and they were trying to figure out how to
00:49:02
Speaker
You know, I mean, they were basically losing everything. Nothing was in production and the amount of insurance they had to take out to even like, I mean, it was, we talked about it in the previous gas.
00:49:18
Speaker
like the amount of safety precautions and the amount of money those safety precautions were taken. So I think at that point, the production companies kind of like went to their war room and said, you know, how the fuck are we going to start doing that? And I think that that's when a lot of talk was surrounded upon the new AA
00:49:41
Speaker
AI technology coming out and like, you know, I think that they started plotting for maybe what they would do in future situations because that would be really scary where I'd really be on the side of the actors.
Pandemic Effect and Production Company Tactics
00:49:58
Speaker
Let's say there is another pandemic or another global disaster or production is completely shut down by no fault of the writers, actors, directors or anybody else.
00:50:11
Speaker
What are the production companies going to do? Will they decide to maybe use AI to construct an entire movie from start to finish? I mean, depending upon where the technology is, that is possible. And at that point, would the actors be compensated? I guess they would have to be because they would have to do voiceover.
00:50:41
Speaker
I mean, maybe they wouldn't. But at that point, if they tried to pull that off, then SAG would just, you know, they would come out. I mean, there would be massive lawsuits. You got to strike for those things to protect yourself from that happening in the future. But to quote Miles Bennis Dyson in Terminator 2,
00:51:09
Speaker
you're judging me for things I haven't even done yet.
00:51:15
Speaker
but they've already come out and said a lot of shady shit. So they plan on doing that shit. That is the thing. I don't know what these Trumpian tactics are where you just go in and make things worse. Like why wouldn't you shut your fucking mouth and just start working on the shady shit like behind closed doors? Yeah, you were talking about like fucking like
00:51:41
Speaker
Oh, I think these things are fucking the what they want is unreasonable yet. They're sitting on their fucking yachts, you know Yeah, they're throwing they're throwing large stones into the pond. They're creating significant ripples I guess sure again saying that quiet part out loud to some extent like
00:52:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's sort of irrational really when you think about it. It seems like, yeah, I mean, the one thing I will say that I'm in total agreement with is that the production companies do not seem to be acting in good faith. And I don't, I would find it very difficult to
00:52:32
Speaker
point out anything that they've been doing recently or saying recently that are good faith arguments. So to that respect, I think we're in total agreement. I guess the only thing I can say is that the only thing we can do is really wait and say.
00:52:58
Speaker
What is going to happen? Are they going to start making these moves? Are they going to start going buckwild with AI? We just don't really know 100% yet. Despite what anybody says, despite the few isolated instances we've seen,
00:53:19
Speaker
Are they going to do- we just don't know, but I hear what you're saying. You're saying that the actors are trying to play it safe than sorry and try to take some actions now so that there can be safeguards in place that prevent these companies from just going totally fucking rogue on them.
00:53:42
Speaker
I mean, is that what you're suggesting? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, if you look at it, even eight months ago, like AI technology has really come a long way in just the past eight months. So it's like exponential growth, no doubt. So it's like you got to put in those protections early to help not only save your job, but like, you know, a lot of people. I mean, I've made YouTube comments recently and noticed that
00:54:10
Speaker
At least I'm about 95% sure.
00:54:15
Speaker
So after reading the the response to my comments I can tell that wasn't a real person That was AI responding to several of my comments. Yeah, because although I'm not active on like site book and Instagram like I do like comment on YouTube and I talk on reddit and I have seen responses where I'm like
00:54:44
Speaker
That's not a human response, but it's pretty close to one where that's fucking bugged me out. I mean, there's been instances of people like, uh, you know, um, getting caught, uh, writing their papers using AI. I mean, that's, well, that's a whole nother that's we're stepping into another dimension there as well as a whole nother thing as well, because they are,
00:55:11
Speaker
AI art is not creating anything new, it's taking what other people have created and doing that kind of a mashup. Don't get me wrong, AI can be a useful tool, but it should not be replacing people's jobs and everything. Even Adobe recently was like, oh shit.
00:55:29
Speaker
We might, you know, our customers might not need us anymore. Yeah. And what have we done? You know what I mean? We're going to have to fucking fire a bunch of fucking people and shut down and our customers rely on us, but they're not going to need us because they are. So it's like, again, ultimately, it's not going to be in the actors hands. It's going to be in the hands of government.
00:55:55
Speaker
Yeah, well right now it's gonna depend upon like what Congress and what lawmakers decide to do like, you know, are they gonna step up and put in safeguards for this or not because if they do not and The companies decide that they just want to go full on shade. Um Yeah, right now I mean, I don't know what's gonna I mean, that's why
00:56:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:37
Speaker
what do
00:56:56
Speaker
give them the money, let the writers write, let the directors direct, let the actors act, and stop getting involved with your stupid fucking notes that usually end up ruining fucking productions, or like when you fire someone halfway through a shoot because you don't see their vision, when like, you're not going to see a full vision until you get to the editing room.
00:57:18
Speaker
So it's like, and a lot of times they'll fire somebody halfway through and then re-shoot the entire movie and then you're spending twice the amount of money on a fucking movie and then now you've just spent like $200 million on a movie that initially cost $100 million and you're wondering why your movie's not making its money back if it only made like $200-300 million before you even get into marketing.
00:57:41
Speaker
and it's like yo yeah that would have made money if you had stuck to your original price and didn't have to fire a director halfway through or have to do all these fucking rewrites because you didn't understand the vision they were going for or what the Witcher producer recently was like oh he's blaming American audiences on uh why
00:58:00
Speaker
The the the show isn't following the books as exactly because they have to dumb it down for us or whatever It's like America is a lot smarter than you think they are Yeah, I mean I I I noticed I just finished watching the Witcher this season and I I'm not gonna spoil anything but like I could tell
00:58:24
Speaker
And this isn't spoiling because I'm sure you've already heard this, but yeah, I noticed that by the end of season three, I was like, wow, they are, you could tell that they were really setting things up to go in a completely different direction than the creator. I think that's one of the reasons Henry Cavill had ended up leaving too, and it wasn't. No, now I kind of understand like where his fear came from. I mean, I,
00:58:54
Speaker
I think he probably would have stayed had he not like thought he was going to be Superman. I think he would have but I mean hey I don't want to go down the rabbit hole because you know we're gonna eventually do a cast talking about the Witcher and analyzing this.
00:59:18
Speaker
I think your arguments are completely coherent and I agree with a lot of it. Things are just very uncertain right now. I've said it several times and I'll say again, this is very complex stuff.
00:59:39
Speaker
We don't know why this is very new technology. Things are very fluent, moving very rapidly, and I think everybody's scared.
00:59:50
Speaker
You know, I guess I don't find that like I want fear to be the dictating element in all of this and I feel like that is like something that's like kind of taking over and that worries me. But I mean...
Negotiation and Industry Impact
01:00:10
Speaker
I guess the end result is that the writers and the producers, they need to get on things and come to some form of compromise very soon because I think if that falls in line and then the production companies can negotiate with SAG,
01:00:32
Speaker
and just come out to some kind of reasonable terms where even at the very least if they were going to use their likeness in AI they had to ask permission first and then depending upon what that actor said
01:00:51
Speaker
either get the permission and the actors say, all right, that's fine. You can use me and just this little clip. Or then negotiate some kind of compensation and payment where they'll be getting some kind of residual effect, further likeness being displayed. So that's what has to happen. And if you put it that way, it sounds very simple.
01:01:17
Speaker
Like the solution doesn't seem like it's that complicated and I just don't know exactly why none of what we're saying here tonight is happening.
01:01:30
Speaker
other than the companies wanting to completely screw everybody over and just act in bad faith and do that. But like right now it's costing, I mean like it's costing the economy, your economy out there, billions.
01:01:53
Speaker
Wb said they were saving a hundred million, but it's gonna end up costing California up to 2 billion if it goes through the next year I heard yeah, I heard that well the last strike I know was I think 2.1 billion and From what I heard from this is they're saying at least 2 billion. Yeah, so I mean I
01:02:17
Speaker
When you look at that, it just doesn't make sense. I understand what's going on, but I don't understand why.
01:02:29
Speaker
It's happening. Like I understand what's happening, but I don't understand why this shit could be resolved. If you have a bunch of rational level headed people with, uh, you know, legal representatives sitting down and just talking, I feel like this shit could be hashed out within the next few weeks. And, you know, you know, then the.
01:02:59
Speaker
recession, Hollywood ends, everybody goes back to work, the companies are gonna be making money, everybody's gonna be making money again. There'll be plenty of money for everyone and it will improve our lives because we'll get the quality content we want. Again, because ultimately too, you have to figure the streaming platforms are going to be losing money too.
01:03:25
Speaker
Because people are going to be like, yo, I'm tired of watching fucking reruns. Like there's nothing new coming out. Like I subscribed to HBO because I wanted these shows or, you know, I wanted this, I wanted that. And you're not producing that anymore. So why am I paying for your platform?
01:03:44
Speaker
Well, so your holders a meeting will come up next year. And so yeah, I mean That's a long time to wait. I mean if we're talking about waiting out that long, I mean that's gonna be fucking catastrophic Yeah, can't walk that long. I do want to say one thing before we go is back with the pandemic
01:04:09
Speaker
A lot of the studios, they're wondering why things aren't making a lot of money in the box office right now, like why some things aren't doing well.
01:04:17
Speaker
And I think a lot of that is because, A, it's kind of expensive to go out to the fucking movies if you're taking a whole family. I mean, I have an A-list plan, which is 30 bucks a month, three movies a week. But I'm by myself, so... Yeah, you're by yourself. And it's been ridiculous for so many years. Just the concession stands in the movie still are just like... I mean, it's almost like a running joke now.
01:04:42
Speaker
But the concessions being expensive makes sense when you think about it where the theaters themselves, they make a very small percentage on the actual ticket sales and they make all their money from the sessions. I get that, but the concessions are ridiculous. I mean, just absurdly priced. Their overhead is fucking ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, it's so insane. It's been that way forever.
01:05:07
Speaker
A lot of times people will like because of that when the pandemic happened, you had same day, like, like HBO Max was releasing stuff in theaters at the same time they're releasing on HBO Max. So yeah, those movies aren't going to do well in theaters. And yes, it was a pandemic. So not a lot before going out. But now that more people are going out, you still have like a 30 day window where the things about like the movie come out 30 days later, it's on demand.
01:05:32
Speaker
So it's like, yeah, you'll just stay home, pay the $15. You can watch it with your whole fucking family, not have to pay concessions and all that as you're saving money. So you're not going out to the movies. Yeah. I think the only way to fix that is you're going to have to push that window back again. You're going to have to push it back. Like, cause like things that come out like, like, uh, the guardians, uh, three came out in May and it's now on Disney plus.
01:05:58
Speaker
And you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, people just wait. Like, they don't mind waiting instead of having to pay all this money or risking their health. Unless it's Oppenheimer, which I heard did very well in theaters. Barbie's about to pass a billion dollars this weekend. Well, that just says something sad about the world, but I mean... Barbie was a fantastic movie. I think you should see it before judging it.
01:06:23
Speaker
I've already got people that are trying to brag me of a different genre. It's not happening. It might not be for you then. The thing I talked about in our last cast, I said about firing the writers. After the first season, they fired all their writers. I said it was on the tip of my tongue. I couldn't remember. It was The Walking Dead.
01:06:51
Speaker
season one, which I thought was like probably the best season of The Walking Dead. After season one, which was incredibly awesome, for some reason, AMC decided to fire the entire writing staff and implement that. I know that doesn't really go into what we're
01:07:09
Speaker
talking about now, but I just had to get it out there. We had talked about this before, it was because... We did talk about it before. And they wanted to go from six episodes to 22 episodes, but only...
Resolution and Supporting Workers
01:07:22
Speaker
Yeah, they wanted to go into season two, and they wanted double the episodes for the same budget as the first thing, but produced double the episodes. But that's a discussion we've already had.
01:07:36
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I mean, um, do you have any final thoughts on this or? Yeah, the fix site is just to push the window back. I mean, I would give it 30 days until after it's left theaters before you even put it on, on demand. And then maybe even another 30 days after that, or maybe even 60 days before you put it on, on one of these stream of services. Cause otherwise like.
01:08:01
Speaker
the the
01:08:22
Speaker
but you've got families, they're not going to go out and see everything like, you know, like the, the, um, you have Hornet mansion, which for some reason they've decided to put out in fucking July when they should have waited for, uh, for like, you know, maybe September, October for Halloween.
01:08:40
Speaker
And then you have Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which looks like a much better fucking movie for family. You're going to take your kids to see that instead of. Yeah, you're going to want that Ninja Turtles. Yeah. No, no, no, no doubt about that. So it's about picking and choosing what you want to see. So you got it. You're gonna have to start.
01:09:03
Speaker
pushing those VOD and streaming releases back, and then maybe you'll recoup some more of your money. And again, stop getting involved and spending twice the budget for it. Yeah. Well, I mean, the other point is well taken. But when I said final thoughts, I meant on the whole SAG situation. Pay people. That's why final thoughts. Yeah.
01:09:31
Speaker
well i guess my final thoughts would be fucking negotiate every day you should be down at a table just communicating that's what should be happening there should be no idle time every day there should be someone with authority to negotiate on both sides
01:09:54
Speaker
at least speaking and at least moving forward and keeping the public updated every day as to what's going on because public pressure can move things. And I know that there's a lot of more important things to a lot of people.
01:10:17
Speaker
happening in 2023 America then what's going on with the writers and the actors and stuff like that you know we have a lot of problems again not going to go into that but I think public pressure could really help yeah yeah especially since like I mean
01:10:38
Speaker
Like, yes, like you might not think about these jobs being important, but like, it kind of is important for people who do like these everyday mundane jobs to come home and to be able to, you know, have escapism and everything like that. Yeah, yeah. So like all kinds of important jobs to every, to every. Yeah. And we have to talk about every, we didn't touch so much on that, but like everybody else in between that's affected. Like, you know what I mean?
01:11:04
Speaker
casting makeup artists the fucking grits you know i mean like everybody i mean this is her i mean i don't know who's representing them or
01:11:18
Speaker
They're just kind of like a lot of them are freelance and stuff like that, right? Yeah, a lot of them also fall under a different union, which is IATSC, I believe. It's a couple of the line people, but they're- I just wanted to give a shout out to them because they're suffering here too.
01:11:37
Speaker
and they don't really have a big voice right now. I don't hear people speaking out for them. It might have been better for them if their contract was around the same time as everyone else's, but yeah, their contract, they can't do anything until...
01:11:54
Speaker
April, I mean, until next year. So yeah, well, my final thoughts is sit down, do your fucking jobs.
Conclusion and Call for Resolution
01:12:04
Speaker
Let's start fucking getting some productive negotiation. Let's start moving forward. Let's find some fucking middle ground and get this shit sorted out for everyone's sake.
01:12:18
Speaker
I need my fucking shows back. I need my late night comedy back. I need some fucking relief. Please. Get your fucking house in order. And that's all I really got to say about that.
01:12:35
Speaker
and the store. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, it's been great. And Futurecast, we're going to be, well, talking about the stuff that is out right now. And, you know, Witcher, you know, other things like that, probably give some news updates on
01:12:58
Speaker
what's been postponed inevitably and the stuff that is actually, there are a couple things that are set to be released soon that I did not realize we're going to. So, you know, maybe next time we'll try to focus on the positive. But this was very, you know, this is, you know, very important shit. Pretty unprecedented shit that hasn't happened in a long time.
01:13:27
Speaker
and hopefully they'll be able to resolve it so it doesn't happen again anytime soon. But, you know, maybe that's just ignorant wishful thinking, but, you know, I can still dream. Anyway, thank you so much for joining us, and we will catch you next time. Take care of yourself, brother. Alright, man. I'll talk to you later.