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When You Are The Only Christian at Work
155 Plays4 months ago
Today’s topic was requested in our end of year survey. It’s not an apologetics deep dive, but more, how do I be a Christian at work without being Ned Flanders? Join us as we explore the temptations like fear of our colleagues hating us and getting left out, what it means to see all people as made in the image of God, and balancing being kind and being faithful to what the Bible says. We don’t have the answers but we’re sharing what has helped us nut it out along the way.
In today’s episode, we explore:
🎧 The places we’ve worked as well as the mistakes and temptations we’ve faced in the only Christian in secular workplaces
🎧 What has helped us to grow in faithfulness and love for our colleagues and clients.
🎧 The idea that everyone is made in God’s image and how this touches every part of our work.
Check out the show notes for everything mentioned in the show.
If you enjoyed this episode, sign up for honest stories in your inbox on Wednesdays (March through November) from local Christian women. One week you get essays and poetry, the next you get a podcast episode.
If you want to send us compliments or constructive suggestions, get in touch at rebecca@storiesidtellyouatdinner.com.au.
If you love the podcast, writing a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify helps other women find us. Thank you!
Music: Come Back by Ketsa. Licensed under a Creative Commons License Non-Commercial, No-Derivatives 4.0 International License.
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Transcript
Introduction & Humorous Anecdote
00:00:00
Speaker
every day. don't want to be in there. One time I was at work, right. And I, I,
00:00:13
Speaker
And I just started, like, there was some reference and I started belting out, like, this Christian hymn, right? and But I realised that, like, i was the only Christian at work and no one got what I was singing. And I was like, why is this not funny? This is not my crowd. This is not my crowd.
00:00:28
Speaker
No one's heard this song. I was like, where is Rachel Edwin when I need her? Yeah, that's the story of my life. Yeah. This is the After Dinner Mint, a podcast of stories I tell you at
Podcast Premise: Honest Faith Discussions
00:00:41
Speaker
dinner.
00:00:41
Speaker
Think of the mint as the stories you tell after you've been kicked out of the restaurant, holding your mint, standing in the street, telling more honest stories with your friends than you did at the table. It's not a sermon.
00:00:53
Speaker
It's not advice. It's not self-help. We're processing what we're learning about faith and life, honestly, in community, to encourage you to do that with your God and your community.
Meet the Hosts: Bec, Maddie, and Rach
00:01:07
Speaker
Hi guys, it's Bec. Welcome back to season two of the After Dinner Mint podcast. We're so excited to be back in your earbuds. I'm here today with Maddie and Rach. If you guys could introduce yourselves.
00:01:19
Speaker
Hey guys, nice to be back. I am Maddie. I work for our local church, Prov Midland, and finishing off my studies and I'm at home with wonderful husband, two little kitties and a very sookie dog.
00:01:32
Speaker
That's me. okay Hey, I'm Rach. I, uh, have three kids at home and a husband as well. And I do not have a dog because I don't want one. um And I am a, oh that's the main reason.
00:01:47
Speaker
And I'm a part-time ED nurse in one of the Metro hospitals of Perth. That's in a nutshell. Lovely.
Being the Only Christian at Work
00:01:56
Speaker
I'm Bec. I'm the founder of Stories I Tell You at Dinner, so an online magazine that brings Christian women and WA together through Honour Stories. I'm a wife to Zach. I'm a mum of three little boys. I've trained as a clean psych and worked in child protection, trauma services, prisons, hospitals, private practice, kind of bounce around, but currently not working anywhere. It's awesome working in the home. Nice. Yeah.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yeah, and, you know, I had a very silky dog, but then and my dog died. I'm basically a blues song. oh Well, I want to go cuddle my dog now.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yeah, so. All right, here I am just bringing down the mood. So... Today's deep dive is basically help. I'm the only Christian at work. So this was like a highly requested topic in our interview survey. So thanks to everyone who filled that out.
00:02:48
Speaker
So I guess it's like a caveat. A caveat? This isn't so much a focus on what our non-Christian colleagues are doing or like full-blown apologetics, but more like... how do I be a Christian in the workplace without being Ned Flanders, without being like that guy? so we're going to chat about what some of the temptations are in this area, some holes to fall into, and a couple of things we've found that have helped.
00:03:10
Speaker
So just to kind of orient us a bit, Rach, could you give us like an overview of your work history, kind of where are the places you've worked? Yeah, I have never worked in a Christian environment at all, actually. When I was at uni,
00:03:23
Speaker
um And high school, I worked at Red Dot, whoo which was awesome. Because it was right in my like youth group leading era, so I was able to get much stuff for youth group for cheap, which was good. It was so cheap. It was so good. It was 25% off the fifty night back then, so it wouldn't it was probably not that much now.
00:03:43
Speaker
but And then I did nursing at uni, obviously, and then I worked in i've worked in a private hospital for a year, which was like St. John's, which was technically Catholic, but you know, and then otherwise I've just worked in public hospitals.
00:03:58
Speaker
Mostly in ED for the last 14 years, 13 years. Wow, you've been in ED for 14 years. I know, I'm older than I think I am. She's seen some stuff.
00:04:10
Speaker
I have seen many things. Yes. Yeah. But no, I've never worked in a, yeah in a Christian environment. So I have much experience with this. Not that I good at it, but I have experience. You're like, I've been there. Yeah, Yeah. I'm excited to chat with our christian a Christian ED nurse about this. this is going to be great.
00:04:31
Speaker
Yeah. So that's cool.
Faith in Professional Journeys
00:04:35
Speaker
so let's go yeah ah Talk to me about your work history, Maddie. Where you been? My, my work history, my work history. I was in, obviously like during uni days, it was hospitality. and I worked at that old Mexican joint, Salsas.
00:04:49
Speaker
So cool. It made me love guacamole. Yeah. ah and so Because they make you taste the guacamole and like, because they're like, we want the right flavor of salt and and lime. And then I'd like, so they make you taste it to make sure it's got the right balance. You're like Nehemiah, you're a cupbearer. Oh, okay. Yum.
00:05:08
Speaker
Yeah, but I'm not putting poison. I don't know. Anyway, it's like, it was just one of my favorite memories. Yeah. Anyway. So yeah, i worked at a couple of hospitality joints. And then when I graduated as a speech pathologist, I worked in um a few different hospitals, one of the larger hospitals, like private hospitals, but it had like a public side. So I was kind of in both sides there. And then, yeah, smaller public hospital as well. More recently, I've been working at church as well. which
Workplace Temptations and Faith
00:05:36
Speaker
means that I'm meeting with lots of people who are having these kind of discussions and, yeah, just chatting with them about their their kind of difficulties at work and and the things that they're dealing with and how they can manage being a Christian in the workplace.
00:05:52
Speaker
So it's cool to hear those stories and chat with people about it. That would be very awkward if you were like, and I really, really identify with this topic because I am the only Christian at work in a my yeah since Yeah, that would have been really awkward. i'd have some We'd have some phone calls and some questions. But you know what? It is great going to staff meeting, you know, on a Tuesday morning and going to pray with my colleagues. They actually, like, care about me. It's actually really nice.
00:06:22
Speaker
Aww. But, you Sorry. It's so nice. But, yes. So nice. Yeah. So that's a lovely environment. was just thinking about it. I think I'm with Rach. I actually don't think.
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah, i mean even my I mean, I had a bunch of random high school union and uni jobs, you know, like Target and Blockbuster and selling suits. Blockbuster?
00:06:46
Speaker
Blockbuster, running kids' birthday parties. i What else did I do? I supervised beach swimming classes, all kinds of random things. But then after uni, child protection prison is definitely not Christian. Child trauma service is not.
00:07:01
Speaker
Hospital, yeah. Yeah, and had public and private side. So I, no.
Standing Firm in Faith Experiences
00:07:08
Speaker
No, actually, technically, yeah, I worked for St John's at one point. So, but I guess I technically worked, yeah. But that would have been the only one, actually, until the last private practice I worked and I had a Christian supervisor.
00:07:23
Speaker
And that was it. But I specifically sought him out to be like, help me. Help me. Yeah. I'm so alone. Yeah. like I think in your job as well, when you're actually talking to people about their life problems and their life choices, i think when, yeah, your worldview comes into the picture of that more so than my job does, because I'm kind of not getting into the weeds of what people think in my job as much, not with my patients at least.
00:07:53
Speaker
So, yeah. Yeah. understand the desire. I mean, like it to say whatever probably. go on Yeah. Have you tried not being sad? that didn't work. your pills, Grandma.
00:08:11
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Sorry. Yeah, no. Weirdly enough, actually, working in forensic settings kind of worked well for me for a long time because it kind of aligned quite nicely. You'd be like, you know, that thing, you shouldn't beat up grandmas at the train station and everyone kind of agrees on that that. That's a bad thing.
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. We agree. Heavy. We support this message. Private practice is a bit different.
00:08:32
Speaker
Private practice is a bit different. Anyway, okay, I'm getting a sidetracked and I'm the one keeping us on track. So talk to me, Maddie, what are some of the temptations you've faced in the workplace? Like kind of when you were the only Christian, but also maybe perhaps, because I'm interested now you're in that role where you hear a lot about other people's trouble in the workplace.
00:08:51
Speaker
You know I'm also interested in that side if you want to go there too. I remember early days feeling like almost a fear that with with people knowing that I'm Christian, they would treat me differently um and knowing that I held beliefs that like really didn't align with theirs. And there was definitely something like I was quite a young Christian at the time.
00:09:11
Speaker
And I've definitely downplayed my differences as Christians. So you kind of go along with certain jokes and you kind of laugh at them or participate in conversations that potentially were not as honourable. And so there's definitely things like that, that trying to downplay those differences so you don't stand out so much.
00:09:32
Speaker
And yeah, because I think there's like definitely a fear of being left out. And also my family always taught me, like, so I was raised in a non-Christian family and my mum was always teaching me that the that everyone has a right to their views, that everyone's view is right for them.
00:09:52
Speaker
So you can't tell people that their, you know, view is wrong because that's right for them, you know. And it's a very, like, it's a very secular kind of view. You don't want to be a bigot, you don't want to be intolerant.
00:10:04
Speaker
No, like, so yeah, you're out you're intolerant if they if you're not. And so I think it was what I struggled with was when someone came up with something that I didn't agree with,
00:10:15
Speaker
i really didn't want to tell them that I didn't agree with them. or Or when they asked my opinion, it was like really hard to be like, I just don't like, it that's just not true. Like, I just don't actually, I think you're wrong.
00:10:28
Speaker
Because even so, like, you know, in the Bible, it says, I'm the only way and truth of my life. I am the only truth. So all the, all those other ideas are wrong. Like, like to, you know, to have approval or worth or they just, they just are. So I think I found that really challenging because it was really, anti my upbringing to ever like, like express an opinion that would would directly put some someone's ideas down, like is what I thought about it. That's me doing air quotations, put them down.
00:11:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I think that was that was really challenging for me and so But then
Engaging in Faith Conversations at Work
00:11:06
Speaker
obviously the temptation there was, yeah, to just try and go along with whatever they were saying instead of actually standing up for and owning my own faith as a young Christian and actually saying, yeah, I don't believe that. I i actually, you know, i believe something that has a different story to that and just actually sharing something a bit more differently.
00:11:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's kind of my... my difference But I also had another, I did have one experience in one of my workplaces where all of the people in my team all got into some weird spiritual stuff.
00:11:41
Speaker
And there was some really interesting, and this was in more recent secular years, so I was much more confident Christian and and pretty more steadfast. But they came up with some weird stuff about, they all went and decided to go see a medium that was coming to like the convention center or something. And they were going as a team and it was really weird. And I was like, I don't know if you're just thinking, oh, this is really cool.
00:12:05
Speaker
Or if you're actually thinking you believe in this spiritual stuff and that being a medium to raise dead people that can help us. Or because I believe that I actually said to them, because they invited me out of politeness, which was very kind of them.
00:12:18
Speaker
But I said, yeah, I believe in the spirit. Like I told them directly, as I actually do believe in the spiritual realm. And I think that is not to be messed with. I think there's only one spirit that's true and that's the Holy spirit. And I think we need to be rejecting any, into any engagement with other spirits. So I'm not going to join you, but thank you.
00:12:37
Speaker
So I was able to kind of stand my ground there though. how was a Weird experience. Just thought I'd share it. Yeah. got haven't had an experience like that again. No. Yeah. Did that like, how did,
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah, were you too bothered? No, I mean, I'd been at lunchtime conversations where that was coming up and I was like kind of just listening. I wasn't participating for a while, but then when they direct, they knew I was a Christian, they directly asked me about it. I was able to say,
00:13:06
Speaker
I just don't think it's safe to be engaging with those things and I don't think it's right. I think it's like potentially even like it's it's evil to be engaging with that kind of thing. So no thank you.
00:13:21
Speaker
okay I didn't think that. i didn't That's probably and like not personal enough. It's not like an identity issue for them. So that was probably easier for me to say like flat out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:13:36
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. Rach, what do you, yeah, what have been the temptations kind of in the workplace? I suppose you've kind of been at one place also for a long time as well.
00:13:47
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think the temptation, at least the root of the temptation, i would assume is similar for most people in that everybody wants to be liked. Everybody wants to feel included and wants to, you don't want to feel like the loser. Like you don't want to feel like the weirdo. And so I think that, and also as what the you know the Bible calls the fear of man really, essentially. is Yeah.
00:14:10
Speaker
I think my my biggest temptation is to want to feel included and and also to be liked. Like, yeah, that's that's a big one for sure.
00:14:21
Speaker
I think hard thing in my workplace is that I think one of the things that I've thought about a lot in the last few years is how do i honour the sanctity of life in my job where we make a joke of everything to cope?
00:14:43
Speaker
And it's like the the whole culture of emergency services is very, like we're all very dark. And even things like when somebody passes away, we have no ritual that we do with them. We don't honour their body. We don't do, we put them in a bag, we wrap them up, we put name tags on them.
00:15:02
Speaker
And i haven't I haven't got an answer for that. I don't know what the like the solution is, but like there's things of the culture of my work and yeah, I've been there a really long time.
00:15:12
Speaker
it's it's It's hard to not just go along with those things. And essentially this whole episode, I'm like, I don't really have any answers. I don't know, I like i could do an awful lot better in this whole area.
00:15:27
Speaker
Yeah, but that's been a one i've I've thought of a lot lately of like when we have someone pass away and not, that you know, we don't we don't do anything disrespectful to the body, but it's like we don't have any ceremony. We don't have any anything like, I don't know, we don't do anything to honour that life or to do anything And they're just there's no there's not a lot of sanctity of life among us because we don't know these people that have passed away. They come in usually halfway to death anyway when they come in.
00:15:58
Speaker
And it's very much a task-orientated job. It's not a job that's stopping and thinking about the feelings and emotions of things. And so we get jobs done and then we just just is like don't think about it again. Yeah.
00:16:14
Speaker
Yeah. It's interesting that like of all the things that
Learning from Past Mistakes in Faith Expression
00:16:19
Speaker
bother you, it's quite interesting that it's the sanctity of life actually. Where you're like, oh, if God says that life matters and I'm acting like this is just another day or this is you know, not someone who's made in God's image, it's interesting that that's the thing that's really come to bother you.
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, suppose so. Because I think I like, I saw a, I don't know if you guys saw it. There's a thing that's gone around, you know, James Van Der Beek, the guy from Dawson's Creek who just passed away from cancer.
00:16:53
Speaker
And he had a video that like, I think it did well at the time, but it has gone viral since he's passed away. And basically he was saying that he found early on in his life, he's he found his identity in acting and that was okay. And, you know, that that served for a while. And then he became a father and a husband and a father. And then that was a lot more fulfilling, that identity. And he was also like a steward of the land. He worked, you know, they owned property and things.
00:17:18
Speaker
And then he got cancer. And he said, you know, i couldn't be a provider. I couldn't be a husband and a father because I was away having treatment. I couldn't do any of those things because my body is weak. And he had sort of this thing of like, what am I if I don't, if i if I can't be any of those things? And his his whole point was, I'm worthy of God's love exactly as I am because I'm made in his image.
00:17:44
Speaker
therefore like and us and that that it's that sort of thing of like people have innate value because they are made in the image of god and i think i do not think about that very much at work and i don't tend to think about it until after and you think oh man i could have i don't know i don't know what the i don't know what the answer is to that because they do have like i still have to put people in body bags i still have to do that and you know
00:18:11
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. I have, I mean, I've played with people at work very occasionally. If I've had sort of, sometimes you'll find someone and you'll get a connection and then you'll realise they're a Christian and they'll, but that's not very often. Yeah. It's really, i mean, that's just historically like a very Christian perspective. I think we take it for granted these days that like, you know, you can go and get good medical care that, you know, that like life is,
00:18:41
Speaker
you know, everybody's lives matter that, you know, everybody
Impacting Workplace through Faith
00:18:45
Speaker
has rights. And that's, if you look at the ancient world, that's just historically not the case. Like Christians were the first people to set up hospitals and to provide medical care just to to everyone, not just people who could afford it.
00:18:57
Speaker
yeah You know, or would, if you look at like Mother Teresa, they talked about, you know, being with babies as they died and like just having some, the baby was held that someone was there.
00:19:09
Speaker
and that, you think that was like the earliest Christians, like it was a very practical kind of love and care, but it was like everybody deserves. It's like worth and dignity for each person. Everybody has worth and dignity. And that's just that I think we just take for granted because were almost like we are post-Christian, but I think we don't take that.
00:19:29
Speaker
That's not a thing I think. I think it's a thing that we take for granted in the modern world. And I think it's really interesting that that's the thing that's bothers you we're like oh yeah like we really are made in god's image and everybody does have worth and you know not only was this someone's son or this was someone's husband but it's also like god made them who but it's hard it's it's hard to and Like, I don't, it's that, that that's it's the sort of thing I think of after.
00:20:01
Speaker
And like, often I'll make, i'll often I'll make the joke in the moment and then go, oh, yeah. You know, someone dies on the wall and you go, oh, cool. We've got another bed. That's good. Cause we do need more beds.
00:20:13
Speaker
And you know, like that's, that's the culture. And so that's the thing is like, how do I i don't know, how do i not do that without, I don't know, cause i'm a very jokey person as well. Like I don't take much stuff seriously, which suits me very well, the nature of my job. But i find myself increasingly fitting into the crowd, which like I've had people, beat like particularly colleagues, be surprised that I'm a Christian. And you go, oh, it's probably not great.
00:20:42
Speaker
And I don't know if that's because of their picture of a Christian is is not what I am. And that may be fine because their picture of a Christian may be very wrong or whether, I fit so well into the world that they are like, oh, really?
00:20:57
Speaker
oh okay. Yeah.
00:21:02
Speaker
But I think there is also a sense of, there could be a little bit of like, I expected Christian to be a complete bigot and, you know, to be like uppity in a way, like, you there could be a little bit of that, but yeah.
00:21:13
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I'm hoping, but maybe not. It may be that I'm like, that's very kind. you're nice. ah Yeah. Yeah. but yeah Yeah.
00:21:24
Speaker
I do find in hospitals, like I found when the environment, when I was working there, you get very callous to people's like, you know, pain and discomfort. You know, they become yeah.
00:21:37
Speaker
yeah like Like, and, and, you know, i remember definitely my team and even myself also using that phrase of like, Oh, one less patient to see, you know, you've got this list as long as your arm and you're kind of like, Oh, okay. But then yeah, stopping and being like, oh You know, instead of joining with that, oh, you know, like that's really sad, like and just reflecting a bit more because, yeah, it's not you don't want to just like dismiss people's pain.
00:22:03
Speaker
Yeah. And the impact of like a loss of life either. But it is, you know, you get into work mode sometimes. I'm sure it's just kind of easy to get into that yeah and form a callus to those things.
00:22:16
Speaker
Yeah, very much so. Yeah. I don't know if that really covers temptations, but hey.
Integrating Faith and Work: Practical Advice
00:22:24
Speaker
it Yes. But I think it's that. Like, it's interesting just to think about sometimes, like, it's not having any answers, but, yeah, like, where does that, like, Christian faith really butt up against, like, your day-to-day?
00:22:37
Speaker
And, you know, like, there's no shying away from her Like, you do a really difficult job and, you know, you don't have the luxury of every day, like, sitting down and, you know, you're not going to sit down and cry every single day.
00:22:49
Speaker
No, ew. Kick that inside. I do think, like, there's there's something to be said for, I mean, like, even, like I said to you off air, like, my granddad died on the weekend and we went to go see him in hospital.
00:23:01
Speaker
But, you know, he's just like, he's lying in the bed. We got his possessions. We said goodbye to him. Like, as he had already passed, but, like, that was it And then the nurse was like, and here's a booklet. And he's going to the morgue and you're like.
00:23:14
Speaker
Oh, cool. Cool. Yeah. Like, you know, yeah you're saying like it is that thing we like oh a lot of other cultures have like rituals around death and like you know if you're irish like or you know you're moldy like they sit the dead body sits on the table for a couple of days and everybody talks to it like it's i think it's something worth thinking about like yeah i obviously not to fully changed topic, but like i was going to also, when I was reflecting on some of the temptations as well, can I share another one
00:23:45
Speaker
Yes, please. No, how dare you? I can't believe you would think more. No more chatting. Yeah. I was like, let's move away from the death one. but
00:23:55
Speaker
Let's on from that. Very real part part of life. um And I'm so sorry to hear about your grandfather. Let me just say that before I move on. And it sounds really kind of. Sorry. but Sorry.
00:24:08
Speaker
whatever the sorry Feel me. No, no, I was actually thinking about when one of one of my temptations in ah being a Christian in my non-Christian workplaces was when so if someone like there was two reasons if someone was going to ask me a question as a christian one can i be bothered having this conversation right now you know you're at work you just want to get home do i want to like do i want to have this conversation right now yeah but the can't be bothered factor and the other one was that what if i get it wrong what if i don't know the answer yes what if someone asked me a question that's just really hard or really confronting and I don't want to answer it because I know it's going to be an unfavourable answer or or I'm worried I'm not going to answer it faithfully.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yes. I think that was like really, those two things, you know, can't be bothered was definitely just a, you know, my sinful heart, not really, you know. Yeah, yeah,
Community Support among Christians
00:25:08
Speaker
yeah. No, I'm really not. mean, I think I'm with you, Maddie. Like I probably lean that way in terms of, I would have been, don't want to get it wrong.
00:25:19
Speaker
i don't want to get in trouble. Like, you know, like I think I spent a lot of time worrying, being like, okay, if I think this and I don't want to get in trouble, I don't know. I was always worried that someone like might sue me or like that that I would get in trouble with some kind of book or, but that's probably more amazing.
00:25:39
Speaker
And then, you know, like, I don't want to get a wrong. i don't want to say the wrong thing. i don't want people to hate me. I reckon those are probably the major ones for me. I'm like, let's all just be friends. Why can't? Yeah. yeah let's just um it Let's just be fluffy. Also, I'm always like, what if I answer it in a way that sounds really weak and like I don't really believe it because I'm just so uncomfortable that I'm not. like but Yeah. That's a legit consent. Yeah.
00:26:08
Speaker
And I think this leads really nicely probably into the next question, which, you know, Rach, I'll probably make you go first. Okay. But in terms of, like, I don't know, like, what are some of the mistakes that we've made in this area all like, we might have made earlier along? I mean, we're basically perfect now, so that's fine.
00:26:26
Speaker
But... She's got a thinking face on. Dude, I'm thinking. because i i' feel back I don't have many, to be honest, I don't have many stories of like specific mistakes. I think my whole vibe is probably a mistake.
00:26:40
Speaker
oh Just oh right i'm on like, honestly, I'm not, i'm not great at being a Christian. I know when none of us are, but like, oh yeah.
00:26:52
Speaker
Do you mean a Ned's land as Christian or? so Yes. So this is, I've spoken about this before, but. I have a family member who, well, actually multiple family members who became Christians later in their life and they both now speak with some regret of how zealous they were in speaking to their family and they were very judgmental and very like out of passion for the gospel and their newfound faith. They like metaphorically beat people over the head with it. And so think I'm so of not saying
00:27:27
Speaker
like wanting to be a Bible basher that that I sort of often will go too far the other way and and be too cool for school. So, yeah and't I can't think of any specific mistakes though. Like I have anything like specific as much as it's probably just related to what the temptation wants to downplay those differences to kind of, you know, I think of it a little bit like,
00:27:55
Speaker
Who lights a lamp and hides it under a bushel? like you know, who hides it under a basket? I remember laughing really hard at that one Bible study because I just pictured it. um it Anyway.
00:28:06
Speaker
But i was like, well, how stupid is that? But it is stupid like because, you know, we actually are called to be in this world but not of it, to be standing apart, to be those who no are not Bible bashers but are those who would – quietly and faithfully honour a God in our workplaces as Christians, not as those who go with the flow. and And easier said than done because I do know that there are obviously lots of people who struggle when they are told it's wear it purple day and they don't want to wear purple and they either chuck a sickie or, you know, they're like, how do I deal with this? I don't don don't want to wear purple to work today.
00:28:49
Speaker
And so, or they have to just have some uncomfortable conversations. And so it is like, it is hard. Like I think and so for me, the mistakes I made was are probably not engaging with opportunities to talk about my Christian faith when they came up because because of fear, yeah either of yet getting it wrong or of of standing out or a fear of rejection. Cause I definitely did There's definitely nothing things that I got left out in, not just seeing mediums, but, you know, being invited out because um my friends, but they didn't think I would have wanted to come with them to a party where they were going to drink.
00:29:29
Speaker
And I mean, I wasn't anti-drinking, but I like i wasn't probably wasn't going to drink with them because I didn't think that they'd get up to things that were honourable, like especially as a young adult.
00:29:40
Speaker
And so, yeah, definitely got left out of things. so i But I think I ran away from a few conversations I wish I could have had or, you know, someone would ask me something and I'd give a really short answer that didn't invite more conversation.
00:29:54
Speaker
Whereas these days I think I'm much more open to answering questions and then asking or saying, i don't know, but if I think a bit more about it, I can chat with you about it another time, like if you're happy to Yeah, I think that's probably one of my mistakes is just not allowing those opportunities to come and and actually, yeah, hang on to them.
00:30:20
Speaker
Yeah, like, and maybe it's, I don't know yeah whether it's a mistake But I think I remember being quite surprised, like i because I lean so much to, i don't want anyone to be upset with me.
00:30:37
Speaker
Like I, you know, I just want everyone to get along. i don't want to have to like have any difficult conversations. And I remember working in a team probably about more more than 10 years ago, having a really close team.
00:30:50
Speaker
And then one of the girls on my team was like, what does the Bible specifically say about this? And, you know, like i gave all the, cake like, you know, all of the things like, oh, you know, the Bible doesn't say very much about this specific thing. The Bible, you know, everybody's saved by grace. Nobody gets in by good works. Went to great lengths to be like that, you know, and like the judgmental Christians are the most, you know, God doesn't like them the most and really went to like that extreme.
00:31:16
Speaker
But then I was like, but this is what the Bible actually says. And yeah. I think that took all of my courage to be like, actually, this is what the Bible says. And I was shocked that actually from that, people my team just didn't like me anymore.
00:31:31
Speaker
Like no one wanted, like people would see me walking down the hallway and turn and walk away. And i remember being genuinely like, genuinely shocked. But I think as I have gone along, like I have ultimately,
00:31:48
Speaker
you know, thought about like a lot of things I don't want, you know, you don't want to be, like overtly, you know, like one of those people who's just like, I don't know, whatever Twitter's called these days, X, but, you know, people who are just there like, who are just there to have a fight, who are just there to argue with people and make them feel uncomfortable, you know, and I think those are things worth looking at being like, you know, did I do this in the right heart? Was i But I think on the other hand, my temptation is to not want to say things.
00:32:18
Speaker
you know i'm like i don't want to have a conversation that makes you feel bad about yourself i don't want to have a conversation things uncomfortable but i also think that the gospel in some ways doesn't allow because you're like oh i'm ultimately responsible to god about like what i say and if someone asks me a question you're like i kind of actually i'm ultimately responsible to him i have to give like a true answer like a kind answer but a true answer because ultimately to him. So I think, you know, as I've wrestled and I've gone along in other areas that have come up, I think that that I feel more settled about that where I'm like, okay, like I don't like the outcome that I got, but I do think that that I was faithful and, you know,
00:33:15
Speaker
It's worth thinking about how can we, hat you know, how do I be kind? don't know. Does that make sense? Have explained it to you or really? What you're saying is the thing we fear is exactly what's going to happen. That's what you're saying.
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah, but I think the thing is that, like, i think with the benefit of hindsight, right, like I can look back on that and be like, okay, okay, Yeah, the bad you know the bad thing that I didn't want to happen did happen, but also i can go away from it and be like, I was actually faithful.
00:33:50
Speaker
a Like, if you've got a weak answer and then looked back and thought of yourself a coward, that's much worse. Yeah, I think I could look back and be like, you know what, I knew i didn't knew that that wasn't going to go well.
00:34:04
Speaker
Like, you know, I tried in every possible way to be kind and gentle and, like, to explain the context of the thing that she was doing. But I knew that that wasn't going to go well.
00:34:17
Speaker
i knew she wasn't going to like my answer. But ultimately I was like, okay, I was brave when I'm tempted to be cowardly and fear men.
00:34:29
Speaker
you know I can look back and at least be like, well, like you said, I wasn't a coward. yeah she yeah how um did you sorry go on no next How long did you stay on that team after everybody didn't like you?
00:34:43
Speaker
I tried. i was there for a while and I was like, please, please transfer me to win another team. And now and you know and I was like, please, I would like to go to another team. And I was like, no. And then oh I found another job.
00:34:59
Speaker
o And then they were like, we found you another team. And I was like, no. Too little, too late. You know, it's interesting that you say that though, like, because I definitely have had times when I've been teased or left out, like of things for being a Christian by non-Christian peers or friends and then not seeing them for a really long period of time and then having them reach out to me again at some point and go, you you believe this, right?
00:35:33
Speaker
Like, I've just been thinking more. This thing's happened in my life. I'd really like to talk to you about it. And yet just having that, being a faithful witness, and I think one of the things, be because what we don't, like, something that we can be confident in the Bible, like the Bible is inerrant. It it it does not err it does it's not, it's not wrong um in any sense. though It is the word of God. And, like, in Hebrews it says it's living, active, sharper than the double-edged sword. it's It's also, which means that it's going to pierce. It's going to pierce to the heart.
00:36:04
Speaker
And so the the word, you know, we can, we can trust that scripture is true. And we can also trust that it's going to be difficult for people to hear and difficult to share sometimes that it will be, you know, if, if you, if you haven't been offended by the Bible at some point, then read it again. Like, it's just like, that so there's stuff in there is offensive. The Bible says you're a sinner. Yeah.
00:36:32
Speaker
not a good person and that you need saving. You there's lots in there and like there's all lots in there that our, you know, our culture around us rejects. And so I think having been faithful to it, you know, there's also, you're inviting, you're letting the spirit do its work, but also um rather than excusing the Bible, you actually, you know, you were faithful to say like, yeah, this is a, you know, this is an uncomfortable topic in our culture, but this is, this is what it says.
00:36:58
Speaker
And, you know, you showed that you actually trust that the word is true. Awesome. I love this. And I think, I reckon that kind of leans nicely into the other side of it, which is you're like, yeah, i want to say that stuff is true. So I've got, I've got the weighing hands going on here. Like, you know, yes, these things are true, but also on the other side, i think it's what Rach is getting at in terms of, you know, even with the the things around death, it's okay.
00:37:26
Speaker
But in my workplace, do people know me as kind? Do people know me as like, you know, that i care about other people, that I am loving, that I am forgiving, that I'm patient?
00:37:44
Speaker
You know, I mean, I often think about this like with my kids. Like I heard a Jen Wilkin quote once and she was like, you're your neighbour is your child. Like all those one another's in scripture like apply to the littlest people in your house.
00:37:58
Speaker
But also like, oh, yeah. Like I think, you know, sometimes it's really direct stuff, but you think also in like the day-to-day and how you neighbour and love like your colleagues and the people in front of you being like, God made them. And yes, like I have to speak truth if they, you know, like, but most of the time it's just that regular day-to-day Yeah.
00:38:27
Speaker
stuff It's it's it's stable stable faithfulness, I find. Like, you know, it's just that present yourself in your workplace as someone who is trustworthy, respectful, who is faithful to, you know, the the values that you hold, um to Christian values. you know And, you know, this is something that I always really admire. My husband, that when he was brick paving as his uni job, like part-time study, part-time brick paving,
00:38:55
Speaker
It was a bit of a rough crowd and there was just times when, you know, the crowd was in their speech, were saying words that, you know, like using swear words and things like that. There's no way.
00:39:09
Speaker
okay what hey this is one example. yeah but And there were other times when obviously they, you know, they had some history with drugs too and inviting them to you know, take drugs. There was also times when they were looking at images on their phone of pornography and things like that. and And then over time, the bosses would notice that, you know, it was a bit of a transient kind of employment because they'd get people who then, oh no, they've like they're off the rails or like, you know, that they've shown themselves untrustworthy. They've not shown up on jobs. like they've not But then Robbie, who was only like
00:39:43
Speaker
18, 19 at the time, would show up every week, do his work, not look at these things, just like talk in a respectful manner, get the job done. And and he just faithfully showed up and and in his conduct was acting honourably to others.
00:39:58
Speaker
and to the work that he was given. and he ended up with way more responsibilities and more trust. And some of these guys started talking to him about stuff and he's like, I don't know anything about the world. You know, you know he's like, I'm 18, 19, you know, but it it was a faithfulness after a few years that they started noticing this in him. And I think in a lot of workplaces, that's that's what it is. It's like a stable faithfulness to what you believe in, to...
00:40:27
Speaker
Yeah, to living and honouring God in your work in a way that other people can see, not not in the every day-to-day, but in the accumulation of every day, if you get what I mean.
00:40:39
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yes, in the every day, but yeah. So same, same. Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys have anything else to weigh I thought of one example actually of me not being a coward, which is nice. Yay. I had a, know so I actually don't know who did this, but on our medication room at work, someone put, I don't know if you've seen them. They're like a little caricature of Jesus and it says, I saw that.
00:41:00
Speaker
And so was a little picture and like, which is funny. I get it. But like someone had put it over the door handle, like over the door, like the thing on the door. So when, but yeah, cause the medication room is where everyone goes to like,
00:41:12
Speaker
bitch about stuff yeah not steal medication no no they don't still medicate also you don't want to fight on the floor you go in there yeah they're all in machine yeah anyway and someone was like oh did you put that up their heart and I was like actually no I think that's actually pretty like blasphemous I'm not like I that's that like Jesus isn't a joke to me um and I was like oh okay um because they knew always a Christian and I think they were like oh she's a Christian like Jesus like you know the word association um and she's like oh yeah did you put that I was like no that's not uh no not not my vibe um it's a poor like it's a small example but that happened recently and I was like yeah no I actually don't find that very funny to be honest yeah that's something I probably have more examples than I think I do I tend to be quite hard on myself
00:42:03
Speaker
It's triggering examples that I've got, but I don't know. yeah But I think it is funny like, I think Rory, I don't know why it's always the Rory Shiner examples, but I think I was a new Christian when I was at Providence. And I just remember him saying, it was if someone came up to you with a gun and they were like, do you believe in Jesus? You'd be like, yes.
00:42:19
Speaker
And they shoot you like, fine. He's like, but most of life just isn't that. You know, most of life is all those really tiny moments. And I think about like a friend of mine who got baptized a couple of years ago said,
00:42:33
Speaker
Her whole testimony was like her grandmother took her to church, like her family weren't Christians and, you know, the people at school who ran like the Bible club and colleagues along the way who were just like lots of little things, but like, you know, she'd ask some questions, they'd be faithful to answer them.
00:42:49
Speaker
But like eventually during COVID there was like people, old people in the park on her street. And she got, you know, god they got talking to them and then they came along to church. But you think there were so many people in her story who were just faithfully doing that little bit.
00:43:03
Speaker
Seeds. Yeah, just sowing seeds where they were, just like being faithful, being like Robbie laying bricks, just having a conversation. You're like, wow, so God's the ultimate gardener and you're just kind of like, I'm just putting out the seeds.
00:43:17
Speaker
Who knows what's going to happen to them? Like, you know, some might grow, some might not, but that's that's not on you. It reminds me of in 1 Thessalonians 4, it talks about in verse 11, it says, ah make it your ambition to live a quiet life. You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders so that you will not, it says, so you will not be dependent on anyone. But yeah, just winning that respect. It's like people notice. Yeah.
00:43:49
Speaker
And like the really, really early Christian church, you know, i was thinking about this when you were talking about the hospital was like, that but like the persecution of Christians that are in the very early church. And yet the,
00:44:01
Speaker
the leaders of that time were kind of like, oh, these, you know, these Christian believers, you know, these they call it the people who follow the way or something, I forget what it was. They say, oh, you know, these people, they're caring for one another and they're loving one another. And they're even, you know, they're even caring for our people, like you know, not not just their own. They're still tortured and killed them, but they were actually like the... But they respected people that murdered it too. Exactly.
00:44:30
Speaker
But what that was what stood out to them enough to comment. Yeah. It was that it was, well, these people are not just leaving. Like, you know, back back then if you were sick and weak, you just weren't fit for life. So people just were like, you'd be left on the side of the road. You'd be cast out of your own home because it was like, oh, man. Whereas Christians had like a a value for And that was that was stood out.
00:44:56
Speaker
And so, yeah, it just made me think of that. yeah just know When I was thinking about this episode this morning and I was going to check up this verse, but I didn't, but it's those qualifications for like deacons and elders. They're like, one of the things is actually being well spoken of by people outside the church.
00:45:15
Speaker
And I think that's really interesting because, you know, that would suggest that you have to actually have good, you know, you have to have relationships outside of the church and to, you know be engaged in the world and be engaged with other people.
00:45:31
Speaker
o So it's that, like, I might not agree with you but I can't argue with what you do. Like, you know, i I don't, you know, I may not agree with your beliefs on life, but but I can see your life and it is different and there's something there that I, know, see and I want.
00:45:53
Speaker
1 Timothy 3, by the way. Thank you, Maddie. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
00:46:05
Speaker
It's pretty full full on, isn't it? And this is talking about the qualifications for like elders effectively and overseers. But like it still, you know, it still reigns true for where we should want to be as Christians every day as well.
00:46:22
Speaker
Every day. want to be in there. One time I was at work, right? And I, I, with and I just started like there was some reference and I started belting out like this Christian hymn right and but I realized that like i was the only Christian at work and no one got what I was singing and i was like why is this not why is this not my crowd this is not my crowd no one's heard this song I was like where is Rach Deadman when I need her yeah that's the story of my life in constantly singing songs no one does this not my crowd yeah
00:47:02
Speaker
It's getting worse and worse as I'm getting older. That's very sad. It'll be fun. So in terms of like our last question is really just like, are there things that have helped us kind of process this through or work some of it out?
00:47:19
Speaker
I'll go first. I'll tell you some things that have helped. When, because when I shifted across into private practice, the first private practice I worked, I was the only Christian.
00:47:30
Speaker
Hmm. And I kind of stuck out like a sore thumb. And so I went across to another place and found a guy who was a Christian. and i was like, I have many questions. And then he was like, I thought he would think I was insane. However, he offered me job.
00:47:41
Speaker
So I worked there. And then i started talking to Brit a lot. Cause I was Hey, you're also working in mental health and you're a Christian. And then, we've talked a lot and voice text lot and actually just having people in the same field as me who also really love Jesus to be like, let help me, help me think this through. How do I like be kind, but also be faithful?
00:48:08
Speaker
Because it's always a lot more complicated than you give it credit for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that is actually a That's actually genuinely very helpful. i have I don't think I've talked to many other Christian nurses about how they navigate that in the workplace.
00:48:23
Speaker
Yeah. There's a lot of Christian nurses. Oh, they're everywhere. Have you heard of Florence Nightingale? Yeah. Oh, She's kind of a big deal. We love our Christian nurses. Yeah, that and teachers. We love it. Everyone. We're public servants. Everywhere.
00:48:39
Speaker
Yeah. That's, that's actually genuinely very helpful. Was that painting like, yeah. You know how I came across this idea? This is genuinely true. so I was talking to like a friend of ours who was not a Christian and I was like, meow, meow, meow, my workplace problems. Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow. Right.
00:48:56
Speaker
And she was like, why don't you pray about it? She's like, you used to pray. Why don't you do that? And I was like, uh,
00:49:04
Speaker
up with your good points. Right. was like, what is that? was like, yeah, that's right. And I legitimately like went away and prayed about it. And then not long after I was like, oh, I have a Christian supervisor and I have like a Christian colleague and oh, like I can process that through all of this stuff.
00:49:19
Speaker
Be like, here's the theory that we, you know, do our job with. And he is like the Bible and like, he's like my life and helped me nut it out. It was really good. Yeah. I think one of, um sometimes i maybe going back to one of the barriers can also, to this can be busyness that you kind of just get caught up in the work life, like like, you know, work home, work home, work home. And sometimes, you know, as we get stuck in our own heads, we get out of the habits of like regular Bible reading, regular prayer, regular meeting with Christians. I think those those three things like are just super important for us to be faithfully in our workplaces.
00:49:59
Speaker
And to be considering how we can honour God in our workplaces. So it's definitely, you know, ah Jordan uses this quote all the time when like Charles Spurgeon was asked, what's more important, Bible reading or prayer? And then Charles Spurgeon replied, ah what's more important, breathing in or breathing out?
00:50:17
Speaker
it's like that they're both important and so yeah well well I think I think it's it'd be know it's great for for me it was when going into regular practices of prayer and bible reading um was always a great reminder to myself and even actually you know it talks about you know meditating on scripture was really you also you know write it on your hearts write it like you know sing sing it like to one another, teach it to one another, and then write it on the doorposts. like yeah there There's literal things like that in Deuteronomy when they're talking about God's law. And that's something like I used to just have a Bible verse that I was meditating on for that day or that week that you just stick on the back of my phone or on my my computer. And it was almost always a reminder of like,
00:51:01
Speaker
oh, yeah, like, you know, maybe I can be praying about this thing or like what if whatever it was. Like it was just actually a really good reminder to be living for the Lord in that moment or in that task.
00:51:12
Speaker
Yes, that reminds Some of those things are very helpful. Yeah, I mean, definitely like Bible reading and prayer and definitely have like the more that that's consistent, the more that things are going well in my life.
00:51:25
Speaker
Or like at least I'm handling them better, a little more peacefully. But the thing that you reminded me of, like just that small moment, was actually the thing that I did at work, and actually I even do now in the morning before like we sit, before we go to school, is I actually just with my kids or when I was like driving to work and I would just sit in my car before I would go into work and I would actually just pray the Lord's Prayer and then be like, and Lord, help me to love like, what was it like?
00:51:51
Speaker
Love you with all my heart, mind, soul, and strength. I love my neighbor as myself. And then I would list the people that I was going to see that day. So if it was like clients, if it was, you know, now I'm like, if it's my kids, teachers or who I'm going to see that day or whatever, but it's actually just reminding me, well, who's my neighbor today?
00:52:08
Speaker
And like, help me love them. I'm like, if I had a day full of clients and i had my list, I'd just be like, okay, I'm going to see these people. Lord, help me. And that was it. And then I just go got on with my day. But, yeah.
00:52:21
Speaker
It was like, Lord help Not help me.
00:52:30
Speaker
on your list. Yeah. And then that would break out the cool gospel music. ah No. And then she became a Pentecostal. That's actually, like, advice that's applicable to many things. But my my dad always says that you can't hate someone you pray for.
00:52:47
Speaker
Yes. It's actually very helpful because particularly if you're like, even even to even just like you can't be annoyed at someone you pray for, like hate is strong. But like any of those things, you're like, as soon as you go, okay, oh my gosh, this person or whatever, or, and then you like praying for them as an antidote to like, this you know, you you bring them, bring them before the throne and you go, oh, okay, well, yes. All right. They're also like, you know,
00:53:14
Speaker
made in God's image and ah and a person too, I guess. and understand and It really does help. Like I realized at the end of every episode, we're like, read your Bible and pray. But it turns out. Have you thought about praying? um Yeah.
00:53:31
Speaker
But yeah, that is actually very helpful advice. That is is easily applicable. Like if you remember to do it. And obviously like, yeah, a big part of it as if you can, is to be meeting with people, like even just, you know, but talking about just chatting with Brit, someone to like, you know, just process with and encourage one another as Christians in the workplace. And legitimately, like, we just voice texted a lot, just being like, what do i do about like this thing? And like, I'm doing this and this is the thing that's happening at work, but like, this is my client and like, but like, I'm i'm like a Christian and like, just, I don't know. Like that was a good proportion of a lot of what we voice texted about. So, you know, we live on different sides of Perth. It was like we crossed over briefly when we worked at the same clinic for like six weeks because she took over my caseload as I was leaving.
00:54:20
Speaker
But mostly like that entire thing was voice text and it was extremely helpful. Yeah. I know like our our Bible study has been a great place where where some of the women have come and kind of just talked about their workplaces or some of the things that they've struggled with or Bible studies in the past where, yeah, talked about and heard about ah people being able to share the gospel with colleagues and bringing them to church or or having really challenging conversations that we've prayed through. And, yeah, it's just a really good way to be encouraging one another i mean to yeah, steadfastly live for the Lord.
00:54:59
Speaker
Very nice. So I think probably, i mean, I guess the things is that we – if we think about the things that have been difficult for us or temptations in the workplace really have been around like we want to be liked, fear of man, like we don't want to have conflicts or problems with people.
00:55:15
Speaker
But also then on the other side as well, thinking about like how do we love and care for people who are made in God's image? I think those came up as the two major ones and I guess ultimately it's Yeah, like that, Rach. Like, yeah, you can't hate someone that you pray for.
00:55:33
Speaker
So really thinking about, yeah, how do we love neighbours? How do we love the people we work with? Because that's most of the time. And then, yeah, like how do we put, yeah, it's thinking about like how do we persevere and finding people to do that with us so we're not stuck in our own heads.
00:55:58
Speaker
That's it from us, friends. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. And if you did, you can sign up to our free weekly newsletter called Stories I'd Tell You at Dinner. So you get essays, poetry, podcast episodes, everything, photo essays straight to your inbox on Wednesdays from March to November from Christian women in Western Australia.
00:56:19
Speaker
If you'd like that, the link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening, guys.