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The Internet Said Everyone Else is Doing It
106 Plays3 months ago
The Internet Said Everyone Else is Doing It is a light hearted debrief (with some cackles) with Maddy, Rach, and Bec about learning to parent while drowning in a sea of parenting advice online. Even if you are not a mother, just a woman casting her anxieties upon the internet and hoping for a sign, this is worth a listen as it is ultimately about growing in discernment.
In today’s episode, we discuss:
🎧 Parenting strategies the internet said would work but did not work as promised with our families.
🎧 What we are learning about parenting as a Christian in a sea of secular parenting advice.
🎧 What we are learning about parenting as a Christian in a sea of “Christian” parenting advice.
🎧 What has actually helped us process problems in parenting.
You can listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or anywhere you get podcasts.
Check out the show notes for everything mentioned in the show.
If you enjoyed this episode, sign up for free encouragement in your inbox on Wednesdays from local Christian women. One week you get essays and poetry, the next week you get a podcast episode.
Music: Come Back by Ketsa. Licensed under a Creative Commons License Non-Commercial, No-Derivatives 4.0 International License.
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Transcript
Personal Parenting Realizations
00:00:00
Speaker
with my first child, I just asked everyone advice. And then I was like, I don't like you or your family. Why am I asking you what you did? i don't want my family to look like yours.
Podcast Introduction
00:00:14
Speaker
This is the After Dinner Mint, a podcast of stories I tell you at dinner. Think of the mint as the stories you tell after you've been kicked out of the restaurant, holding your mint, standing in the street, telling more honest stories with your friends than you did at the table.
00:00:29
Speaker
It's not a sermon. It's not advice. It's not a self-help. We're processing what we're learning about faith and life, honestly, in community, to encourage you to do that with your God and your community.
Meet the Hosts
00:00:44
Speaker
Hey everyone, I'm Maddie. Today I'm here with Bec and Rachel. Can you guys say hi and introduce yourself? Hello.
00:00:51
Speaker
Hi, how you doing? Yeah, good friend. Hi, i am I'm Rachel. I am a part-time ED nurse slash full-time wife and mother to three kids.
00:01:01
Speaker
My life is very busy and I'm very tired most the time.
00:01:07
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. sounds familiar. Yes, I i empathize. So, hi, I'm Beg. I am married to Zach. I was like, what am I? I'm married to Zach and we have three boys and currently not working, just working in the home, killing dirt sourdough starters.
00:01:25
Speaker
Also, the founder of Stories I Tell You at Dinner.
00:01:31
Speaker
I want some sourdough now. It's like the perfect winter, it fresh out of the oven. Anyway, thanks, Addy. I am married to Robbie and have two little kids, four and six months old at home.
00:01:45
Speaker
I'm training, doing my Masters of Divinity at Trinity and currently just trying to finish that off slowly but surely. um Mostly at home, full-time parent at the moment. That's what I'm up to during the week. So thanks, guys.
Navigating Parenting Advice
00:01:57
Speaker
This episode today is considering the topic of parenting advice. There is so much information out there and there's so much advice to wade through. There's also a lot of people willing to share their opinions.
00:02:09
Speaker
And trying to sort through it all can be really frustrating and pretty confusing. And you can feel a little bit like you're drowning in advice when you're trying to sort it all through. Even if you aren't a parent, you'll find you do have an opinion on this.
00:02:21
Speaker
think we all did. And then we became parents and you got a little bit thrown under the bus of it. oh Or maybe you understood your parents a little more. But this topic emerged after a lot of hair pulling, our own, not our kids, a few too many pieces of Lego stepped on, and generally a frustrating journey of trying to wade through the sea of parenting advice.
00:02:40
Speaker
So as Christians, what are we to be? Are we so to be helicopter parents, free range? Does the Bible prescribe anything? Any kind of attachment style or love language? And how do we engage with secular parenting advice?
00:02:51
Speaker
Why does one approach seem to fit one family and yet feel like a square peg in a round hole in our own? Or what about different ages and stages? Look, we're not professionals living this in any way, but we are trying to figure out how to parent in a way that honors God and is good and honorable to our family and community. So welcome to the discussion.
00:03:13
Speaker
First off, what is parenting methodology that you've applied to your kids and did not work? I'm going to throw it
Flexible Parenting Methods
00:03:21
Speaker
to Rachel. Rachel. When we first had, our oldest is 11, but we've been doing it for a little while.
00:03:27
Speaker
And we did a version of ah the Growing Kids God's way course, which was called Parenting from the Tree of Life when we did it. And I wouldn't say that it didn't work. I think we got a lot of really...
00:03:39
Speaker
If nothing else, it was just a framework of like, what do we even start to do particularly with a newborn and like getting some sort of sleep routine and that sort of thing.
00:03:51
Speaker
There was parts of that that we felt was a bit too rigid or didn't fit our family that well, but I think- That is an incredibly controversial teaching on parenting and there's a lot of very varied opinions on it. But I think we took what worked for our family out of that and then sort of let things go that we didn't, which I think is a reasonably healthy way to approach any parenting thing. go, all right, what works? And also not everything works for every child either.
00:04:22
Speaker
So there was something things there were some things that worked too for one of our kids and not for the others or Vice versa. so that's probably the only like official parenting strategy we've applied. Vecca, have you guys done anything?
00:04:35
Speaker
I think the thing that probably surprised me most, I don't think I did any structured things per se, but maybe because of like the training and the clinical training. I, and i don't know, maybe I just absorbed it from Instagram. I'm not sure.
00:04:48
Speaker
But I really had this thing in my head that like, you know, gentle parenting, attachment parenting, like you got to be there with your kids for them to calm down and kind of like do that together. But like with one of my kids, that really didn't work at all.
00:05:01
Speaker
Like he kind of just needed time to just go off and rage a bit and then we'd come back and like debrief. But I do remember being quite surprised by that because I kind of just thought like, you know, I've got to be with you and like co-regulation and all of that
Adapting to Children's Personalities
00:05:15
Speaker
kind of stuff.
00:05:16
Speaker
But, you know, like you were just saying, one different kids do different things. That's a major one for me. Every time I read anything about like over-regulating, I was like, that sounds for the child within me, that sounds absolutely awful. i was like, get away from me.
00:05:35
Speaker
You need to break me and suppress my nervousness. Get away from me with my feelings. I will take them away and I will come back later. Go away. Yes. And ironically, like, was like, this is how I function. I was like, don't come near me. I'm sad. I need to like think about this. And then I will come back and we can talk about it. So, you know, it didn't really work very well for both of us.
00:05:55
Speaker
So, but I was like, no, like gentle parenting, co-regulation. It just didn't, didn't happen. I think I also struggle in in the opposite of like, you think, okay, well, what, what would I have liked as a child?
00:06:11
Speaker
But then some of my kids are the opposite to me and you go, okay, well, how do i I, don't want to do that because that's not what I would want, but that's what will help you. So I got to do that thing that makes me uncomfortable because that's not what I will do.
00:06:23
Speaker
But, Like, oh um and this is the thing, like people say like little kids, little problems, bigger kids, big problems. It's really annoying because it's really true because you have to like make them into a real person, not just like a baby who sleeps. You have to like deal with their feelings and stuff.
00:06:40
Speaker
Yeah. At the same time. oh And you're like, I'm just going to stop. Yeah. You say that. It's like you look at the evidence or something and it'll say like, oh, this is an evidence-based approach, right?
00:06:56
Speaker
And then you go, oh but it just doesn't work for my family. Like it mut and I tried it, I tried it, and it just like it backfired or went into my face. And then i even looking at some of the, I looked a bit at the ah whole brainchild stuff a little while ago. Oh, yeah. Super hopeful for like understanding children's like brain development.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah, it was actually really helpful for Robbie as well because he could kind of, rather than being like, is this kid just tantruming and not like, I'm trying to reason with him and he's just listening.
00:07:27
Speaker
And you're like, okay, okay, we're in the emotion side of the brain mode. And then he was like, ah now I understand it. He's an engineer. He really needs like a picture. to be able to go, oh this is the solution.
Real-life Disciplining Challenges
00:07:40
Speaker
Anyway. but So that stuff was helpful. But then thinking about that objectively is one thing. Actually doing it is really hard when ah your emotions are over there. Also in my angry side, I want to be like, oh, stop embarrassing me in the shops.
00:07:54
Speaker
Stop.
00:07:57
Speaker
um What I really want is someone to stop and listen to me have a little tantrum. But then I'm like, okay, I am the owl. you know So yeah, coming back to it, you're like, in the moment, you really have to pull yourself down and be like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a sinner.
00:08:11
Speaker
Yeah, cool. All right. Yes. And you think you've died mad so it hasn't worked? Yeah. Look, I think it's been interesting. It's actually just been that I haven't realised that my son has moved from one phase of parenting to the next that I've needed or like he's moved from one stage of development to a stage understanding where he probably needs more structure or something like that, like where I just haven't applied things quick enough. Mm-hmm.
00:08:38
Speaker
So I think then I might have still been stepping in too much or not stepping in and enough. for I think it's not been any one particular methodology for me, but I think it's actually been that almost trying to keep up with that it the nature of our kids who are growing and trying to adapt to to their needs and especially as that because I'm in the little kids stage as well as their personalities come forth trying to figure out what what kind of soothing method works well for them what discipline works well for them one form of discipline you know just say comes back smiling and laughing and you're like that time out work
00:09:18
Speaker
You know, so you're like, how can we change this so that you actually understand the seriousness of things? Or just, and knowing that, you know, already knowing my six-month-old daughter is completely different in personality to him as well.
00:09:31
Speaker
Like, you can just see just differences. So, okay, this is going to be interesting. So, I'm actually here just to get advice from you guys. yeah lot yeah Experienced and hygiene.
00:09:47
Speaker
I'm still floating through the advice. um Yeah.
Generational Advice Frustrations
00:09:50
Speaker
few of advice. What I did stop doing, which is not really a parenting strategy, but one thing that I find incredibly unhelpful is people, particularly like lovely, well-meaning older women telling you to enjoy it because it goes really fast Like, oh, just like you have to like enjoy. I was like, that's, I appreciate where you're coming from. Like there was, there's been a thing going around social media. It's like a poem some lady wrote, which is beautiful, but it's, she's like in her eighties and she wakes up one day in her 38 year old body and she looks in the mirror and she's young and she's like, I thought I was old when I was 38. How silly. And then the kids come in and like, you know, it's this beautiful thing and at breakfast, you
00:10:28
Speaker
you know, it's lovely. And then at the end of the day, like there's no skipping pages in the, in the story that we read because I'm savoring this. And I was like, I, like, I appreciate the sentiment. However, the reason that's so wonderful is you're going back to visit for a day. That's why that's nice.
00:10:43
Speaker
I can't enjoy every moment for 18 years. I can't, it's not helpful advice. And so like, I kind of just take what I can. I enjoy moments and that's fine.
00:10:55
Speaker
I know this is a complete takeaway, but I'm just going to go from the thing that you said. and That's fine. Go. I have really come to appreciate like being at home. There's almost like this idea that you're I have to enjoy every moment and I have to really, like I have to really enjoy all moment and I have to always be really, really present.
00:11:12
Speaker
But actually, like I don't treat what my paid employment that way. Oh, you know, like sometimes I will do it. Sometimes I enjoy it. And sometimes I'm working on doing better so that like wife will go more smoothly.
00:11:24
Speaker
And I found that actually if I'm just thinking about like how can i how can the days run more smoothly? How can things go well? I'm i'm just, if I take that approach and take it at home, I'm like, well, actually my days go more better and I'm less discontent.
00:11:38
Speaker
less discontent Or I'm more content. It's probably a more logical. But yeah, I think there's a lot of pressure just be like, you should you should enjoy every moment. You're well, I don't enjoy every every moment.
00:11:50
Speaker
That doesn't mean like I don't love my kids or I don't, I'm not grateful to be home with them or to but running my household. It's just like, yeah, sometimes parts of it are hard. Yeah.
Finding Purpose Beyond Parenting Enjoyment
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:00
Speaker
Most of it's hard. Most of it's hard. Yeah. Turns out. We do a lot of it's hard.
00:12:07
Speaker
Yeah. I just, yeah. But that it that sounds very negative. But I think I listened to a, actually, it wasn't even a podcast. It was like ah clip from a podcast. and Not Christian at all. It was with an actor.
00:12:19
Speaker
And some the question was, who are you jealous of? And I actually found this really helpful because i was like, it's a really good way to frame parenting in particular. But he said, I'm really jealous of people who still have young kids at home.
00:12:31
Speaker
and as I was like, oh, really? Because he's in his, you know, 70s and his his kids are all adults and whatever. And he's like, I had no trouble knowing what my purpose was when I had young kids at home. Because he's like, I've got to pick up that stuff. I've got to get these kids to school. I've got to do that thing. He's like...
00:12:45
Speaker
ah Like it wasn't easy, but I was purposeful. was like, that's actually a good perspective. Like, and even if the purpose is we got to feed them, we got to do the thing. We got to like, I have purpose and that is very fulfilling.
00:12:58
Speaker
And even like, and then obviously you can go deeper with that as a Christian of like your eternal purpose with these kids as well. And I think that kind of takes the pressure of enjoying every moment off a bit. It's like, I have purpose, but it's not necessarily enjoyable, but it's, it's worth something and it has value.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. it's And I'm happy to sacrifice for it. It is work and it's work that you're grateful to do, but you're like, some of it really is work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah. And i've I've had some conversations with people recently, especially first time mums who are like one or two of them who have actually struggled to conceive. So they've waited a long, long time before they've received this blessing that they've they've asked for for a long time and then realized like they almost had a pressure on themselves that they weren't allowed to feel like it was hard because they wanted this yeah you know and then when they were struggling they were like why am I struggling with this or I don't feel like I can say I'm asked I need help because I wanted this you know I brought this on myself you know or it was something like that and it's actually it's really helpful when people are going look it
00:14:02
Speaker
It is like parenting is really hard. You have someone fully dependent on you at all times and you know you're not sleeping. or you're not there's There's lots of changes that happen in a short period of time.
00:14:13
Speaker
And also kids can be very, well, kids are very demanding and you just don't have the same space you might want. The pain.
00:14:24
Speaker
Do you see, there's a video, Maddie. There is this TikTok reel. No, there's a TikTok. I don't know. I was talking on Instagram. It made me laugh. It was just like how my kids expect me to respond to every request. And this dad fell like, Dad.
00:14:41
Speaker
Oh, no. Dad's like, oh, trying to drill a TV in the wall. Dad, can I have sandwich? Like, yep, let's drop the TV. But walked off. Like, Dad, my thing's at the bottom of the pool. or The dad's walking past. It's like, them I'm going drive. Like, yep, straight jump to the pool.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah. ah Yes, I have seen this. I have seen it. That's funny. And it is true. They're the full demand. It's there at all times. And it it it is challenging, but this might even lend itself into what we're going to discuss next is that we can then be caught in the trap of parenting
Balancing Parenting Blessings and Struggles
00:15:16
Speaker
is hard.
00:15:16
Speaker
It's always hard. It's okay to always feel exhausted. Here's the stereotype of all parents. It's that you are constantly tired. You never sleep. You never blah, blah, blah, you know, like, and that it's not enjoyable either.
00:15:28
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I think on the flip side, like we can get caught into this idea, like kind of forget that our children are gifts to us. They are blessings. They are something quite amazing that God has given us and that we can enjoy them.
00:15:46
Speaker
And so that's kind of something I was thinking about kind of leads well into the next question. What is something that you guys are learning about parenting as a Christian within the sea of secular parenting advice?
00:15:59
Speaker
Bec, did you want yeah I think it's probably unpopular kind of like secular jungle pairing advice. So the thing that I've really learned is it's kind for me to discipline my kids.
00:16:11
Speaker
It's actually kind for my children. and act of my love is to discipline them, to train them to obey, to be able to respect authority and discipline and training them in the way that they should go.
00:16:24
Speaker
And so perhaps and like I have just come to see that like if you don't train your kids, like society will train them anyway and they won't be as kind as you. like And maybe having worked in a prison, like you just see guys who you know have never learned to listen. They've never learned to obey.
00:16:41
Speaker
And I feel like actually I'm tired of coming to prison. like I'm tired of being in isolation down the back. like you know I've got to stop like going flying off the handle every time someone gives me an instruction.
00:16:54
Speaker
And that's not little kids, but it is a good thing. Like there are verses in the Bible. um one of them that I have thought about a lot in Proverbs, this is Proverbs 29, 17. So it says, discipline your son and he will give you rest. He will give delight to your heart.
00:17:09
Speaker
I just thought about that one a lot. I'm like, it's, good to endure in discipline and eventually not all the time. Like, you know, Proverbs, you know, they're not promises. They're just saying this is generally how things work.
00:17:22
Speaker
But generally training your kids is a good s thing and sometimes it's hard but it's worth doing. And god out zi God is a God of order. like And I think I know as an adult how, particularly it as a mum, the amount of choices I have to make every day that it is good, like if I can provide my kids with a safe and structured environment where they're not having to make all these choices all the time because no one's looking, like no one's clearing their path in their life and structuring things. So they, having to make choices all the time because you don't actually have enough supervision or enough guidance is so stressful
00:18:05
Speaker
i think that's hard for me as an adult. I have to make a million decisions all all day. and you think that is such a ah gift to them for me to be able to provide a safe and structured place where they know what's going to happen and they can rest in that, that this is their reliable and ordered place.
Structured Environments and Stress
00:18:26
Speaker
and to as And to an extension of that, that like God is the head of this house. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. God is a God of order. This is a house of order. And part of that order is you need to do what mom and dad say, but also you know that mom and dad have your best interest.
00:18:45
Speaker
And we know that God has it has our best interest as a family. Right. Which ultimately comes down to trust. I can trust that other people will care for me. you know, even if I don't understand everything, i trust that they love me, they will be there.
00:19:00
Speaker
Like, they're all really important parts of discipline. And like, to not provide that is, you know, heading into neglect. o And I think that like live your truth or whatever is such a big thing at the, you know, in society at the moment.
00:19:16
Speaker
You see, I could not think of a worse person. Like my youngest is, she's turning seven soon. I was like, she is very funny, but she's nuts. Like she's a nutter. I was like, i she's not in charge.
00:19:27
Speaker
She cannot be in charge of choosing herself. Like she can pick her clothes and she picks crazy clothes. Like I'm not putting that on her to decide what she gets to do all the time. That's just not safe. It's not fair. And it's not so like supporting her as a person.
00:19:46
Speaker
Like some choices, like yeah you're allowed to have some choices. Well, of course. yeah Not all of them. But like, you know, all of them. but all of so Yeah, not big ones. And that's also like like ah imaging, like a form of ped, actually learn obedience and they learn submission in the sense that they also have to learn that in their Christian life too. and They walk with the Lord, they're learning that.
00:20:08
Speaker
and and And I guess when you're providing this structure home that also gives them the freedom, like a safe place to fail too. So, obviously, like when they don't obey the rules at home, there' there's discipline and then there's reteaching and then you like, you know, you need to reinforce things.
00:20:27
Speaker
Whereas in, you know, when they're older in the real world, like Beck would know, there's not much reinforcement, you got you know, when they disobey the law and they've got a criminal record or like, you know, things like that.
00:20:39
Speaker
That's a other extreme, but you are actually teaching them life skills by having structure. Whereas I think there is a lot of that free range parenting stuff out there, which can advise that, you know, we need to let them make their own decisions.
00:20:56
Speaker
Even as early as five, they can like could choose their own gender. You know, they have the right to self-determination. That's like being a kid's pretty confusing. Yeah. They actually need some structure and and boundaries. And you're right, making decisions is anxiety-inducing and scary, especially when you are young and don't have the framework or understanding of the world yet. um That's where parents come in.
00:21:21
Speaker
And the Bible says that our hearts are deceitful. It's like, well, do I leave them? Do they relate then? particularly if they if I don't know if they have chosen to but follow Christ.
00:21:35
Speaker
And so you think, well, i can't I'm not just going to leave them to their own devices. From a Christian standpoint, we acknowledge, you know, Dan and I acknowledge that we're sinners and we discuss
Modeling Repentance and Honesty
00:21:44
Speaker
that with the kids. And then you sort of have a certain amount of responsibility as well then of like we acknowledge the wrong things we do.
00:21:51
Speaker
And then, well, attempt to model repentance. And I think really essentially what we come down to on every podcast is, oh, Jesus is right. This is the right way to like. It's never that Jesus guy. Yeah. And you think, well, yeah, like the Christian acknowledging you as a sinner and then sins, particular sins, and then repentance is a great model for life, a great model for dealing with people and a great model for parenting as well.
00:22:20
Speaker
and Absolutely. You had her birth. Yes. Maggie Dent talks about that, I think. I don't think, you know, she's a secular parenting guru.
00:22:31
Speaker
She actually talks about saying sorry the power of saying sorry to your kids. And so that's one thing I find interesting in the sea of secular advice. There's this biblical wisdom coming through. Mm-hmm.
00:22:42
Speaker
just simply to out of the common grace to the world. You know, God, the world is still, despite trying not to, is still imaging him in some way, which is actually really beautiful.
00:22:54
Speaker
It is still broken. But yeah, it was really interesting seeing that saying sorry to your kids has a lot of power and in the relationship and also in them trusting and also not realize they don't get to that point where they think, oh, my my parents aren't perfect and they completely go off the rails.
00:23:08
Speaker
I think weirdly enough, it's just validating. Like, should kids be like, look, I'm sorry, I was grumpy. Like, I'm sorry I yelled. And it's not that it makes it not so bad when, you know, you're really grumpy. You know, it's okay for you to be grumpy. It was not okay for you to yell at me. And kids ah checks out.
00:23:21
Speaker
You know, because you don't do that. I don't do that. Like, we're working on it. This is a side note, and it might be a like a little bomb of discussion. I'm sorry. What you guys think about, because I've heard this a lot in sermons, about the in the Ten Commandments, the honour your father and mother is the only commandment that's given with a promise.
00:23:39
Speaker
It's like i your days will be long in the land or whatever, you know that. but And what do you, look given what we've talked talked about, you know, people don't, not everybody has great parents.
00:23:51
Speaker
And as a Christian, it's a hard one to, because I think a lot of people will say that to their, in the sort of church tradition I grew up in, a lot of people would say, well, the Bible says you have to honour your father and mother, so you need to honour me.
00:24:05
Speaker
And that's what the Bible says, but I have thought about it a lot lately. And mean, I have great parents. ah I've thought about that. You go, well, what about people who have real struggles with their parents? How as a Christian do you navigate that?
00:24:17
Speaker
Sorry, this is not part of our discussion, but I wasll just thinking about it. Yeah, I reckon can like a lot of prayer, lot of wisdom, but a lot of talking to people. But like how can you in your specific circumstances honour your parents in, you know, the things that they have done while acknowledging the things that haven't done?
00:24:40
Speaker
and Honor also doesn't, like in my perspective, honor doesn't necessarily mean obey in every single thing, especially when you yourself are an adult who may have left and cleft from their family. It's not that you then ignore your parents after that.
00:24:57
Speaker
It's that you can honor them but also recognize that sometimes what they might be asking you is is unbiblical or the way that they might be treating, i acting in such a way that,
00:25:10
Speaker
is dishonouring to God, like your primary allegiance is with God. But I think it is is really complicated. And I think every situation is very unique. it's really hard to speak into that without kind of being party to certain schemes, like depending on...
00:25:26
Speaker
you know yeah to Do you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, depends on the situation. But you've thought this more. I've also thought that like in terms of what we've been talking about as us as parents, I thought we could also flick that commandment and go, okay, well, how do i be a parent that is easy to honour for my kids?
Grace and Love in Parenting
00:25:45
Speaker
How do I make that commandment easier for them? Bestowing honour upon my husband and I is not will not be a really hard thing for them to do, particularly as adults. Yeah, because there's that instruction in like Ephesians 6 where it's saying, you know, children, you have to ab obey your parents.
00:26:00
Speaker
But then it's also saying like, fathers, do not exasperate your children. Like, you know, don't be excessively difficult. So I like that. I like that it just comes down to, well, what are you actually in control of? You're like, well, how I parent, how I love on my kids. Like, every day that's a choice that you have. Like, you want a discipline out of, like, warmth and absolute love and care for your kids.
00:26:24
Speaker
and Yeah. Yeah, you don't want to, like, cause a stumbling block for them telling that either. I guess in terms of Christian parenting advice – What is something that you guys are learning about parenting as a Christian in the sea of all the Christian stuff going around?
00:26:40
Speaker
I read an article the the other day we were like prepping for this. And the title of the article is Your Parenting Method Won't Save Your Kids, Grace Will, which is a good talk. And there's a bit that I want to just read because it's easier.
00:26:54
Speaker
says, when I look at my father, as in God the Father, the maker of everything, and realize that a good and perfect God can who can do no wrong sees worth in me, Someone who can't help but do wrong, it changes everything. The same guidance and grace he has given me I want to show to my kids.
00:27:12
Speaker
I don't want to present a set of rules they need to follow in order to turn out the right way, but instead that they have value simply could because God loves them and wants the best for them. Mm-hmm.
00:27:23
Speaker
And I think it's a very um helpful place to come from like, okay, i mean, I'm physically incapable of it, but to go, if I can in some way emulate how God feels about me to my kids and provide them as much of, well, a tiny amount, but the grace that is bestowed upon me,
00:27:44
Speaker
o And if God can give that grace to me, then surely I can give this small amount to my kids. Yeah. I love that. And being humble enough ah yeah to realize that you and your children are in the same moral or state spiritually as a sinner and to then have grace for them in that. Because often it's very easy to just be like, can you just do what I've told you to do because I'm right.
00:28:11
Speaker
I'm right. You're wrong. Do what I say. Which sometimes you need, like don't run across the road. Good advice. But yeah, coming from a place of grace is very difficult to do, but I think it's a good goal.
00:28:23
Speaker
lovely Yeah, absolutely. And I think ah something I found really helpful, but I think it might have been Paul Tripp parenting. yeah And that was really helpful because i you know he reminded you that person who knows that they need grace, the parent who knows that they need God's grace, is more freely able to give grace to their kids.
00:28:40
Speaker
And it's just a good reminder of like yeah and what you were saying, being in the same spiritual state of neediness, of full dependence. And I think that's also another helpful thing is that Paul Tripp also describes parents as,
00:28:54
Speaker
God's ambassadors, like discipling children. These children are given to us, but we're also given to our children. God chose us to parent our children, and there is no one better for that job.
00:29:06
Speaker
You know, he's equipped us for the job that he has given us. And so I found that really helpful as a framework for God doesn't leave us in our parent, just
Personal Growth Over Success
00:29:14
Speaker
go. And you're you're kind of disappointing me. Why isn't your kid, like, learned all the catechism questions yet and um memorized all the scriptures?
00:29:22
Speaker
So I found that really helpful because he's equipping us in the moment to deal with all the parenting struggles and to also show grace to our kids when we don't feel like showing grace to them because we've told them a thousand times. to have to tell them a thousand more that they have to do X, Y, Z or learn these things. So yeah, Bec, you have to say to that?
00:29:41
Speaker
Just that, like, I do think as I parent, it is the thing that brings me most desperately to God. a burnba I don't know what I'm doing. I really need you to help me And actually, he's more concerned with my heart in how I parent. I'm like, am I growing in, like, patience? And am I growing in you know, wisdom and endurance and all of those things.
00:30:02
Speaker
Because, you know, I could on the face of it have compliant children, I could do that with a completely wrong heart. I could do that out of anger and anxiety, but I think that would be a failure because you're not drawing close to God. And I think that's why like some Christian books, you're like, sure, they are written by Christians, but it does make you a little more suspicious of them sometimes where you're like, is that biblical or is that just your opinion?
00:30:32
Speaker
Like, this is the best way to do this thing. You're like, well, that is your opinion. But, you know, people across time and culture have used those principles to raise family in so many different cultures and circumstances.
00:30:48
Speaker
But then on the other side, like, I don't think every secular book is that, but you know, because it's, you know, not specific and Christian. Like, for example, I really, really, although it's not technically a parenting book, but like The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt.
Protection and Discernment for Children
00:31:03
Speaker
and So he basically just talks about like these mental health crises across like 37 countries. countries And he's like, you know, why? Basically, his whole idea was that kids were underprotected online and overprotected in real life. And that's kind of what's caused this thing And he's like, look, there are all of these different ways that families and schools and communities can deal with social media and phone use.
00:31:27
Speaker
Great. Really helpful. Really wise. But in the long run, you want to be growing in wisdom that you can discern that for yourself and you don't need someone to just say, this is the only thing that we think.
00:31:37
Speaker
This is the only way as a Christian you can raise your children and they have to sleep like this and they have to go to sleep in this particular way or for how long. Yeah. i don't know. Anyway, I have opinions. yeah I've really enjoyed listening to a series of kind of like teaching ah nights that Jen and Jeff Wilkin put together through the Village Church and there's like recordings on their website.
00:31:58
Speaker
And they're very clear about... saying that they are providing teaching based on their experience. And they're very clear to say, you need to discern what is going to work for your family. But then they lay down kind of some biblical principles that in the Bible, discipline is a form of love, providing wisdom for our kids.
00:32:15
Speaker
ah like growing our kids up in wisdom um and also obedience, another thing, growing them in wisdom and preparing them for a life of godliness as as Christians.
00:32:26
Speaker
One of the things I think that was really helpful was parenting with the end in mind. So that's the phrase that they used, like with the end in mind. So what how do you want them to act as teenagers and or, you know, as as adults? Yeah.
00:32:39
Speaker
And one of the things that they talked about was something like, if you just have a kid who's constantly obedient but doesn't can't actually make decisions for themselves, like isn't grown in wisdom to make decisions for themselves, but they obey your structures, then they get to a point where they get released into the world at university or something and they kind of can't make decisions for themselves. Or they think, okay.
00:33:01
Speaker
There's this whole other world out there that I've always been like, I never really thought about trying. I'm just going to go do all these other things and perhaps go off on a bit of a wayward tangent, stand out of their parents' roof.
00:33:12
Speaker
And so we are actually wanting to teach our kids to be trained up in wisdom and to be able to discern things for themselves. And I thought that was helpful because they had that as a um as bit of a framework using quotes from Proverbs as well, you know teach them teach them the way that they should go is not just, oh, you need to do this.
00:33:32
Speaker
it's saying It's teaching them to discern the right paths based on the morality and kind of righteous living that you are hopefully modelling or repentant life modelling to them.
00:33:44
Speaker
a Side note of that, ah there's a resource that's really good called Foundation Worldview, which has like programs about that and they have things like what is truth? what like the And it's for kids specifically, but there's actually like programs if anybody needs things.
00:33:59
Speaker
o Tell me the next. I shall. and But the other thing I was thinking with that in a practical sense was that for me personally, when my kids ask me,
00:34:11
Speaker
any question that like questions God or questions things that like my immediate like internal thing is like, oh no, like that's bad. Like they're not a Christian, which I don't say out loud, but that's my immediate thing is like to sort of tense.
00:34:27
Speaker
And one thing I'm trying to do is to encourage them to question things as much as they want and like on and try and encourage that. Cause I think,
00:34:40
Speaker
Again, in the church tradition I was brought up in, it was not encouraged to question things because that meant you didn't believe it or whatever, which was incredibly unhelpful because being Christian is really confusing and lots of there's lots of things to think on and to work through. And my son asked me the other day, well, if God's all-powerful, how do we know he's not going to turn bad?
00:35:00
Speaker
I said, that's a really good question. yeah so This is the thing I'm working on is to go, okay, that's a great question. Let's... talk about it or I don't know I'll find out because I think I still have so many questions and I'm getting very old and I've been in the church for my whole life but then also i' i' realizing more and more that most of our questions cut can come back to the character of God and that's why I said to him at the time I said well We know that God is loving and kind and slow to anger and and God is love.
00:35:34
Speaker
And if someone who is love, even though God can do anything, there are some things he can't do because that goes against who he is and his character. He's unchanging. Exactly. And you're like, yeah, that's the thing that I'm like, okay, how do I encourage you to actually think about things and not feel like, oh, I don't want to ask this because I'll get in trouble or it'll be shut down. Like, don't know, we don't, you know, don't question I love that.
00:35:57
Speaker
a lovea I love that could this sometimes come in? I don't know. I do it most of the time. Sometimes you're I don't know, but I'll find out. I think that's a great response. Yeah.
00:36:09
Speaker
And also, question how many do you with those questions? that Yeah. That's actually a celebration in that sense because rather than outsourcing these questions, your home itself should be like that community in which you can be open and freely discuss these doubts and and kind of issues.
00:36:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um Actually, when I interviewed Kaya Thompson and she's one of a family, I think she's one of eight and her dad was a pastor. And actually what she said, one of the things her family did really, really well was she was like, I could bring up anything. I could talk about anything. Home was a really safe place to wrestle with all these ideas. i was like...
00:36:45
Speaker
That's wonderful. That's so great. Like what a thing to really aspire to. Like, hey, the world might be really confusing, but home, you can ask all your questions. You have a safe place to wrestle with it.
00:36:57
Speaker
It's a good, robust faith. Like have been asking questions for thousands of years. Yeah, and this Jen and Jeff Wilkin, again, put this thing, they said, your home should be the ultimate small group. Like, we do that, we want to encourage that with our Bible study small groups is that they we can come and, like, discuss, like, issues and and even share life together. and and And it's actually, your family should be your ultimate small group where you're you're able to discuss tricky questions, you're living life side by side, you're serving one another in community, that it should be your safe, kind of safe place to do that ultimate safe place.
Family as a Supportive Unit
00:37:32
Speaker
ah thought that was actually a relationship. Like that, yeah. And as soon as it's like authentic and like free rather than, yeah, everyone sit down and we're at the end.
00:37:44
Speaker
Like, guys I talked for an hour. You need to leave that away. And I had to tim down quite good home. It's time to leave. I joke that I've got a doormat that just says like, hello, please leave at nine.
00:37:58
Speaker
Yep. so Yes. They're known for my promptness to tuck people out at 9 p.m. Anyway, my small group appreciates it. They're all parents and they're like, oh, yeah, I need to.
00:38:11
Speaker
I got to go home. Yeah, we ran a Bible study that we were like, look, we start at, I think it was like 6.30. I don't remember. Whatever. It was like there was a half an hour. You like you can come and draw beforehand. The Bible study is like for an hour.
00:38:22
Speaker
but including prayer, then we're done. If we're not finished on the time that it's done, you can just leave. But just, you know, you can leave. You don't have to explain. You can just leave. And stop getting that um stop leaving five minutes between each prayer. Somebody just start praying.
00:38:34
Speaker
ah And when you have that awkward balance, then the person who's going to finish finishes. like but Just one person pray. It's always so weird.
00:38:44
Speaker
Everyone just put your requests in. oh Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I have to tell you. This is the best thing. I was at this prayer meeting one time. No, I was like, they're meeting the leaders of all of the Bible studies, right? And this was at Providence ages ago.
00:38:56
Speaker
And we were at these people's house and everybody had to close their eyes, right, to do these prayers. And long prayer because it was big meeting. And they had this dog, this big dog, and the dog was very quiet. And it would get up on top of the table and then it would like, it took the cupcakes like whole And no one saw it except for me because I had my eyes open but I couldn't laugh because he wouldn't have known that I was watching the dog.
00:39:19
Speaker
Oh, that's funny. That dog's a big animal. Some family needs a dog like that. That's so fun. was like, what a smart dog because it knew everyone's eyes are closed, their heads are down, it's prayer time, it's cupcake time.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yep. Well trained. You know what? We've got kids like that. Okay. They just start when we're all about... Anyway. ah Yes, yes. That's it.
00:39:46
Speaker
Good note there. Well, be the heir of the kings. Help us out. Your trick is to a weird place. tell And tell you that, wait tell everyone that that person's eyes open are at the table when they shouldn't be when we're saying grace. And you're like, oh, how did you know?
00:40:00
Speaker
Oh, your eyes were open. Universal, universal truth. we We'll be wrapping this up pretty soon, but let's just think about um what's something that's actually helped you process your own problems in parenting.
00:40:12
Speaker
I'll tell you things. Oh, wow. Yeah. I know. I'm ready, bro. I'm like, I'm going to start with three. Yeah. I got one. So do they start with the same?
00:40:25
Speaker
Why are they doing? Illiterate. Okay, but RB was like, kind of illiterate. I've been digging it. No, there's a short list. One is actually just consuming less parenting content overall because it's just overwhelming.
00:40:38
Speaker
And someone once was just like, look around you and see people who who have kids who are pleasant to be around, but well-trained, lovely, because that doesn't naturally happen. And then you're like, hey, what'd you do?
00:40:52
Speaker
Why your children so nice? Like, just ask them. Like, they're happy to tell you. Like, find people who are grown up kids. Like, you know, what'd you guys do? Like, Just gathering information and then I run it, you know, it's just dumb.
00:41:04
Speaker
But like reading my Bible more, reading Proverbs, being like, cool, can I train my kids in wisdom if I'm not wise? No. Must grow in wisdom. So that has been helpful. And then just like the probably every episode we end up in prayer, but I'm like, God help me.
00:41:21
Speaker
I don't know what I'm doing. I am like more angry than I ever realized and much less patient than I ever realized. And. Uh huh. Yeah. The kids you've given me are really annoying.
00:41:33
Speaker
Help me. That way they do what I wanted the first time. And then you read, like, the Israelites, they're like, we got up on the hill a long time. We needed to worship this man. They're like, don't you know that much? Not worship other gods. If your kids start melting down your jewellery, that's bad.
00:41:48
Speaker
They're in the back yard putting the sack up. You're I'm going to fight this. I'm going to see you in the first time. Oh, that's funny. no Oh, yeah. but I agree yeah with the, um, I used to, I did that a lot, particularly early on with my first child. I just asked everyone advice. And then i was like, I don't like you or your family.
00:42:11
Speaker
Why am I asking you what you did? I don't want my family to look like yours. um So i stopped just asking everyone. Cause I like, I don't need this much advice. I need to get advice or someone people who are further ahead talk like friends that Friends, actually, that's my other other point is I have good friends around me.
00:42:28
Speaker
But if you're on the same stage, it's not that helpful because you're just like in in a trench, in mud going, oh, I don't know. What are we doing? we yeah outside Solidarity is great and very helpful and necessary.
00:42:42
Speaker
However, if you would like like advice and wisdom, talk to someone who's further ahead and whose family you like, whose kids you like, whose marriage you like, something who you're like, hey, i'd like that looks like it's going well. Let me ask them about it.
00:42:56
Speaker
um Particularly if you ask them and they're really honest, that's a good sign. and then And then my other thing is what has helped me is having good friends that I can be there with. That's very helpful.
00:43:07
Speaker
But also friends are going to be like, um stop doing that. that Whatever. you'll be the ability you ah That was too harsh. That was too mean or that whatever. like Yeah. yeah Friends who are like, I don't think this is going well with your schedule and your life. Yeah.
00:43:25
Speaker
Yeah. i say what I see that. I appreciate it. Yes. Yeah. Yep. I'm annoyed by Shabbatically. Yes. but
00:43:38
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I've definitely found the same in that, you know, prying praying for my kids really specifically rather than just like, give me wisdom in parenting. It'll be like, okay, no, ah give me wisdom in helping share the joy of going to church every week.
00:43:55
Speaker
You know, we've had a little bit of a struggle where we'll go, oh, we're going to church today. my son will go, I don't want to go to church. And then he gets to church and he loves church, but he does the same thing with swimming. I don't ah want to go swimming.
00:44:07
Speaker
It's like, and are you're like, but but you literally love swimming. It's like, I can't even pull you out of the pool. I can't even get you off the
Community Support and Prayer
00:44:13
Speaker
playground at church. Anyway, so it's like this kind of thing where I'm like, Just praying about that specifically or these little things or help him to grow, you know, in being able to um just consider community rather than just us or something like that. Like it's been really helpful thinking about really specific things to p pray for and also like praying with him for that.
00:44:34
Speaker
um So like not just saying, not in a passive aggressive way, like I pray that you would obey mum today. Like, not my wife, but...
00:44:46
Speaker
I like the waving of the head as you're bidding it. Oh, yeah. Anything? Yeah, I had a bit of sass with that lot. And then I, yeah, snapped my fingers in a Z formation and then. All right, anyway, thanks.
00:44:59
Speaker
No, so like really praying really specifically for them and also with them, like if it's something that hes he recognizes, oh, that's something that I didn't listen very well. but like Let's pray about that because I need to pray about that too because I didn't listen very well earlier. Let's pray about that together.
00:45:13
Speaker
And so things like that, I think that's been really helpful and also helping my heart in that too. Well, I've really enjoyed this discussion and it's been really helpful knowing that there are people in the same boat but also further ahead of me. So thank you. I'll be asking of you guys. I don't know.
00:45:30
Speaker
Oh, after Rachel, she's the furthest ahead. My oldest is seven. and Just throw you under the bus. Well, I feel like, man, where does, why don't, we could just throw Britt under the bus and be like, she's the expert. We'll just lock her next time.
00:45:41
Speaker
Yeah. Head to winter, go. And that ultimate expert league. Oh, like, fiery furnace. Exactly.
Episode Wrap-up
00:45:52
Speaker
So, look, thank you everyone so much for tuning in with us today. We've really enjoyed chatting and sharing this discussion with you and we hope that you guys enjoy it too.
00:46:02
Speaker
And so tune in for the next one and thanks again.
00:46:09
Speaker
That's it from us, friends. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. And if you did, you can sign up to our free weekly newsletter called Stories I'd Tell You at Dinner. So you get essays, poetry, podcast episodes, everything, photo essays straight to your inbox on Wednesdays from March to November from Christian Women in Western Australia.
00:46:31
Speaker
If you'd like that, the link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening, guys. bye